1 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: Pushkambe. One of my favorite books is Middle March by 2 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: George Elliott. It's about the life and manners of a 3 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: small English town in the nineteenth century. It's also a 4 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: cautionary tale for the kind of person I am. There's 5 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: a character in the book named Edward Kasabon, a dreary, 6 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: middle aged man who's engaged in a decades long writing project. 7 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: Kasabon collects facts he writes on little sheets of paper 8 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: that he stores in the pigeonholes of his library shelves. 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: He claims that someday he's going to use these facts 10 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: to prove that all the myths of the world are 11 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: really one myth. He's obsessed. He calls it the key 12 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: to all mythologies, and he sees it everywhere. I'm not 13 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: middle aged, and I am fairly uppeed, but I fear 14 00:01:06,479 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: that last bit is me. I see the Statine Island 15 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: secession movement everywhere in our world today. I've carried my 16 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: facts about the Staten Island secession movement around with me 17 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: for quite a while. Now they burn a hole in 18 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: my pocket. I go to parties, and inevitably I wind 19 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: up in the corner with the Staten Islander who has 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: suddenly revealed themselves. They look interested and then mildly concerned 21 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: as I pull from memory the facts that I have 22 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: stored in the pigeonholes of a document I have titled 23 00:01:32,479 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: Excellent Staaten Island Facts. Did you know the towers of 24 00:01:36,479 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: the Verizonto and Narrows Bridge are so far apart that 25 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: they had to take into account the curvature of the 26 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: earth when they built them. Did you know that Staten 27 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: Island claims to have been home to the true and 28 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: forgotten inventor of the telephone? Am i kazabon God? I 29 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: hope not. I caution myself against seeing my project everywhere. 30 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: Don't be the hammer to whom everything looks like a nail. 31 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: Don't try to write the key to all mythologies. And 32 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: then I learned something like this. Wu Tang Clan, arguably 33 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: the most important group in hip hop history, is from 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: Staten Island. They made their first album, Enter the Wu 35 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: Tang thirty six Chambers, entirely during the height of the 36 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: secession movement, and it came out in nineteen ninety three, 37 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: just one week after the island was gonna vote on secession. 38 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: I'm going to klomp sat the new joke chaf Sa 39 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: saying the love was no job at second hand. 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: Mons bells don't know a man. So then we moved 41 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: the salon land. I began to listen to this record 42 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: every day. I worked on this project on the ferry 43 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: to the archives, on the subway to work. Shall in 44 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: what they called Staten Island is all over it. 45 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: I'll come from the Sallins slump and the halo whom 46 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 2: it's come a wopn meggas and guns. 47 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: Their music is all about their lives, what they witnessed 48 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: on the island at the time. Like listen to this 49 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: from the song Wu Tang seventh Chamber. They bring up 50 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: the projects in northern Staten Island where Wu Tang formed 51 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: nicknamed Kill a Hill. 52 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: Like clash the Russia Slash a switt and they go 53 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 3: back like a Dutch mask of Chilla now jumped off 54 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 3: and Chilla Pilla. I was the thrilla in the Ali 55 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 3: Faisa Manila. 56 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: It's all about their lives in New York City in 57 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: the early nineteen nineties, who they were becoming, and what 58 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: it all had to do with being from the rugged 59 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: lands of Shaolin. I considered putting this on my list 60 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: of excellent Staten Island facts and leaving it at that. 61 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: But I had no choice. I put on my headphones, 62 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: I picked up the phone, I opened my notebook. Casiman 63 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: rides again. You're listening to revisionist history. I'm Ben Thatt 64 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: of Haaffrey, and this is the Staten Island Problem, the 65 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: series about the movement that threatened to bring down the 66 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: greatest city in the country. In this episode, I bring 67 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: you the story of the rise of one of the 68 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: greatest rap groups in history. That happened all while the 69 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: Secession movement unfolded in the background. We're going to zero 70 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: in on an entirely different experience taking place on the 71 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: island at the same time, one that reveals just how 72 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: entrench the Staten Island problem really is, but one that 73 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: also I think might show us a way to solve it. 74 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: This is episode four, Wu Tang versus the Shoutlin. I 75 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: should say off the bat that I was unable to 76 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: reach the Wu Tang clan. For a brief moment, the 77 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: manager of a lesser known member of the group considered 78 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: giving me an interview. Then he stopped taking my calls. Domingo, 79 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: if you hear this, I'm ready when you are. But 80 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: luckily I was able to track someone else down. 81 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 4: I was actually one of the first journalists to ever 82 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 4: deal with Wu Tang because their record label, Loud called 83 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 4: me up. 84 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: Fernando was a hip hop journalist in the eighties and nineties. 85 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: He covered Wu Tang from the beginning. Had he ever 86 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: considered the crucial overlap of Wu Tang's formation in Staten 87 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: Island secession? He had not. 88 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 4: I had no idea any of that stuff was going 89 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 4: on at the time. 90 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: I don't even know if they did. Like it was 91 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: the they must have. It was the biggest story on 92 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: Staten Island. What was it going to be? 93 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 4: Just like Staten Island was just going to be a city. 94 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. When the Wu Tang cland first formed their label 95 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: called Skiz to write their bio, so he connected with 96 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: the group's to facto leader, a guy named Bobby Diggs 97 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: who went by the name Rizza. 98 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 4: And I was immediately struck by this guy, like I 99 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 4: could detect like some serious intelligence in this sky. 100 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: Rizza was a former drug dealer with no professional prospects 101 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: living out on Staten Island. That alone was strange in 102 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: the pantheon of hip hop. Brooklyn and the Bronx Reign Supreme. 103 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: Nobody is from Staten Island. 104 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 4: All of the five Borrows in New York were pretty 105 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 4: represented in hip hop in the nineties. 106 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: You had the you know you had like the Boogie 107 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: Down Bronx. It's one of them. 108 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 4: So obviously Brooklyn. 109 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: From the next team a man saying. 110 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 4: That from the projects the money make in Manhattan. 111 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: Now I'm the guy named Curtis blow Ain't Christmas is 112 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: one thing I know? So every year just about this time, 113 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 2: I celebrate kids with a rhyme. 114 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 4: You know, queens you had Queensbridge projects produced so many 115 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 4: amazing artists like nas Mob. 116 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: Deep every day deal with the Russia and mixed up in. 117 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 4: And like Staten Island. You know who was from Staten Island. 118 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 4: There was not a lot of acts coming out of 119 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 4: Staten Island. 120 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: You know you had. 121 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 4: Jesus I'm blanking. 122 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: This is all to say. Skiz was surprised. Here was 123 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: the relatively unknown MC from the island with an encyclopedic 124 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: knowledge of kung fu movies and a crew of eight 125 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: other EMCs who named themselves after a form of martial 126 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: arts invented by a Taoist hermit. 127 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 4: Skiz was like, what, Wow, this guy is something else. 128 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: So Skiz journalist that he is began a decades long 129 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: process of figuring out how exactly the Wu Tang clan 130 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: came to be. Rizza decided what he wanted to do 131 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: with his life on America's two hundredth birthday. He was 132 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: in the park Hill projects of Staten Island, who was 133 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: July nineteen seventy six, and there was a party in 134 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: the courtyard. A DJ was spinning records and rapping over them. 135 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 4: He dip dip dive and socialized. I think those are 136 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 4: the exact words that Rizza remembered, and that kind of 137 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 4: just just that energy and just the excitement of that 138 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 4: whole thing of seeing this free party happening in this environment. 139 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 4: You know, all these kids running around and adults and 140 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 4: people just enjoying the music and enjoying each other's company. 141 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 4: This was how this was how hip hop started. 142 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: Rizza was seven at the time, and. 143 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 4: When you're a young kid exposed to this and this 144 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 4: is like the excitement that's happening in your neighborhood, you 145 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 4: want to be a part of it. And he wanted 146 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 4: to be a part of it. 147 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: He stayed up late into the night transfixed. 148 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 4: So immediately he goes home and he starts writing rhymes, 149 00:08:45,479 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 4: you know, and then as soon as he could, he 150 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:49,879 Speaker 4: starts DJing. 151 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: Riza moved around a lot as a kid. He was 152 00:08:57,079 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: born in Brooklyn, spent some of his childhood in North Carolina, 153 00:09:00,239 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 1: but he landed in the park Hill Projects on the 154 00:09:02,479 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: north shore of Staten Island. The buildings were built in 155 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, around the same time as the bridge 156 00:09:09,079 --> 00:09:11,479 Speaker 1: and the express that split the island down the middle 157 00:09:11,599 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: into north and south shore. North was where the black 158 00:09:14,079 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: people lived, South was where the white people lived. Several 159 00:09:17,319 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: Staten Islanders told me the Expressway was their equivalent of 160 00:09:20,719 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: the Mason Dixon Line. 161 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 5: People like, where are you from? And I'm like so. 162 00:09:25,079 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 5: I used to say, if I tell you, I have 163 00:09:27,079 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 5: to kill you, and you're like why, And then I'm 164 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 5: like Staten Island. 165 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: One day, when I was listing excellent Staten Island facts 166 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 1: to a friend, she told me you should meet Daphne McWilliams. 167 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: She's a filmmaker from Staten Island. 168 00:09:40,239 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 5: There were only three houses on my parents' block, and 169 00:09:43,719 --> 00:09:46,599 Speaker 5: then as from the lake was park Hill Projects. 170 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 1: Her parents were from Trinidad and Jamaica and didn't really 171 00:09:49,719 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: know the intricate racial codes of Staten Island. Her family 172 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,119 Speaker 1: moved to the white area across from the Park Hill 173 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: projects back in the nineteen seventies. 174 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 5: But when my mother found that house, she got a threatening, 175 00:10:03,319 --> 00:10:05,599 Speaker 5: I guess call or something where they were like, oh 176 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 5: you something like you better hope that you don't see 177 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 5: your kids floating in and in the pond. 178 00:10:12,599 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: By one estimate, there were fewer than a thousand people 179 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: have called her South of the Expressway. Daphne stuck out. 180 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,279 Speaker 1: She told me a story from when she was a 181 00:10:20,359 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: kid about having a crush on an Italian American boy 182 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,239 Speaker 1: named Billy. One day she called his. 183 00:10:25,239 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 5: House and his mother picked up, and she was like, 184 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 5: don't ever call this house again. So I went to 185 00:10:31,959 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 5: school the next day. I was upset and I went 186 00:10:33,839 --> 00:10:36,479 Speaker 5: and speak to this priest. I don't know what I 187 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 5: did wrong. I don't know what I did wrong, And 188 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 5: telling the guy goes, well, you see, he says something 189 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 5: to like almost like this that's a little happened for 190 00:10:48,439 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 5: white kids, and it's like a little. 191 00:10:49,959 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: Heaven for black kids segregated. 192 00:10:52,839 --> 00:10:55,479 Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god, Like I had no 193 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 5: idea when I look back and think about it, we 194 00:10:58,839 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 5: always stood out because we were always the. 195 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 4: The black family. 196 00:11:05,599 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 5: My parents didn't raise us in a segregated mindset. We 197 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 5: just never It was the community that made us feel different, 198 00:11:16,719 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 5: especially as you get older. 199 00:11:19,479 --> 00:11:22,479 Speaker 1: But the truth is all of New York City was segregated. 200 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: Then it seemed like there was a defining race riot 201 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: every year. Very do the right thing. The reality that 202 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: Mayor Dinkins's vision of a beautiful mosaic obscured is that 203 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: if one bit of colored glass from the mosaic crossed another, 204 00:11:37,199 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: someone might end up shot or run over, and then 205 00:11:40,199 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: the riots would begin again. But Southern Staten Island was 206 00:11:44,359 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: a particularly dramatic case. It may as well have been 207 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: the Deep South. When one Wu Tang member went to 208 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: Daphne's area, he remembered getting chased out by white kids 209 00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: with motorcycles. They spray painted KKK on the rocks to 210 00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: warn the black kids away. This was the Staten Island 211 00:12:02,359 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: Riza grew up on, but he had a way of 212 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: escaping that reality. Hip hop. By the time Rizza was 213 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,119 Speaker 1: in his early twenties, hip hop had gone stratospheric from 214 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: the courtyards and wreck rooms of the New York City 215 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: projects to the top of the Billboard charts. The labels 216 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,479 Speaker 1: were grabbing at any artists they could. Rizza got a deal. 217 00:12:23,839 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: He brought his new label a bunch of songs, and 218 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: they said, we think girls will like you. So we 219 00:12:28,599 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: wound up releasing an EP called Ooh We Love You Rakkim, 220 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: a record that presented him as a sweet ladies man 221 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: named Prince Rakim Many Ladies. It was an attempt to 222 00:12:46,839 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: do something extremely commercial, totally inoffensive and upbeat, and also 223 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: fundamentally false and corny, and maybe for that reason it bombed. 224 00:12:56,599 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: Rizza got dropped from his label and he was back 225 00:12:59,079 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: to zero. That's when he started dealing drugs and almost 226 00:13:03,959 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: went to prison for attempted murder. He argued self defense 227 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,359 Speaker 1: and beat the charges in the end, and he had 228 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars left. It was enough to buy some 229 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: drugs and sell them. But he had a kid on 230 00:13:17,079 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: the way. He had to make a choice, and this 231 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: choice became so legendary that he's still talking about it. 232 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,999 Speaker 1: Here he is on a recent episode of a podcast 233 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,119 Speaker 1: called Flagrant. 234 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 6: I had t k and the gag was The plan 235 00:13:33,479 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 6: was to get a brick, so so we figured, oh, 236 00:13:36,199 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 6: if we flipped this twenty we could at least get eighty. 237 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 6: The thing was, Joe I had a baby in the 238 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,479 Speaker 6: oven or maybe just born right, So life was like 239 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 6: what are you going to do? Yeah? 240 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:50,479 Speaker 1: But then. 241 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 6: I was like, nah, I have a second chance. 242 00:13:55,719 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: That's when he started calling himself Rizza r z A. 243 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: He would later say it was short for rakeem zig 244 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: zag zig allah. While everyone else zigged, it was time 245 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: for him to zag. And so, moving on a Staten 246 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: Island that was in the middle of its own very 247 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: big zag, he began to make a bold plan for 248 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: an independence movement of his own, something called Wu Tang Clan. 249 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: After he beat his charges, Bobby Diggs aka there is 250 00:14:40,359 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: A began to walk around Staten Island and he started 251 00:14:44,479 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: to take these long, drawn out walks day after day. 252 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 6: So I'm walking and I'm thinking, yo, and I'll walk 253 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 6: in off step, I'll walk up the stand and people 254 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 6: people thought there was the people who thought I was 255 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,879 Speaker 6: losing my mind because I'm walking and I'm talking to myself. 256 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: And he would walk the island and think Staten Island 257 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,999 Speaker 1: was more than twice the size of men, and Rizza 258 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: could just walk and walk. He would start at the 259 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: projects on the north shore, then maybe journey along the 260 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: coastline through the suburban streets. Rizza was ready to make 261 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: music again, but the first time out with his Prince 262 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: Rakim project had gone badly. But the idea he was 263 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: coming up with now was going to be different. And 264 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: I want to argue here that it has everything to 265 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: do with Staten Island. Let me share with you some 266 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: writing from Rizza's book, The Tao of Wu. I spent 267 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: my formative years on an island, Staten Island, which is 268 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: a blessing I've taken with me through life in Staten Island. 269 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: Wu Tang were set apart from all the influences and 270 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: fads that were happening in the other four boroughs. A 271 00:15:59,479 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: nine man hip hop crew based on mathematics, chess, comics 272 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,239 Speaker 1: and kung fuflicks wasn't springing up in the middle of 273 00:16:05,239 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: a Manhattan arts scene. Only on a remote island can 274 00:16:09,479 --> 00:16:12,519 Speaker 1: some thing like King Kong grow to his full capacity. 275 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: But the projects in Staten Island were a difficult place 276 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: to live. A few of the Wu Tang members have 277 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: written books, and reading them it's clear that it wasn't 278 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: just the remoteness of Staten Island that led them to 279 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: the Wu Tang clan. It was also what they experienced there, 280 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: especially in the projects. One Wu Tang member. You God 281 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: wrote about the first time he saw somebody die. He 282 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,399 Speaker 1: was five years old, sitting with his mom listening to 283 00:16:41,479 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: Loving You by Minnie Ripperton play on the radio outside. 284 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: When he heard a crowd forming in the courtyard. He 285 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,239 Speaker 1: ran out to look. A woman was standing on the 286 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: roof screaming. He watched so long his neck one stuff. 287 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: Then she jumped or fell, You, God wrote in his 288 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: book called Raw. I was a toddler. The sound of 289 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: her hitting the concrete steps would resonate with me forever. 290 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: So when Rizza walked Staaten Island, and it wasn't just 291 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: this utopian vision of the isolated island where you can 292 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: dream big. It was also the deeply segregated place where 293 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: kids living on their own little island watched adults fall 294 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: to their death, a kind of paradox. And my theory 295 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: is that paradox was expressed in the word Shao limb. 296 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 297 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: When Rizza was a kid, he and his cousin used 298 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: to go to a Times Square porno theater. Sometimes it 299 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: showed Kung Fu and one movie that they loved, in particular, 300 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: the thirty sixth Chamber of Shao Lim. 301 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 7: But sure or a man choose, Oh well armed, what 302 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 7: can we do? 303 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 4: No man so we he cannot help. 304 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: Most people came to that Times Square movie theater to 305 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: jerk off, sniff glue, or shoot heroin. But Rizza would 306 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: later say in interviews that he and his cousin were 307 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: locked in on this poorly dubbed movie about a small 308 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: village in China that was being oppressed by a distant government. 309 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: Hero of the movie is a villager who journeys to 310 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: the Shaolin temple in China to learn to fight back. 311 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: Rizza saw this movie over three hundred times. He hadn't 312 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: realized that kind of oppression happened to people who weren't black. 313 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: This is from the thirty six Chamber when our hero 314 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: learns what Shaolin. 315 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 7: Is shallin school is restricted. 316 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 4: Only monks had taught that if Shaolin techniques could be 317 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 4: taught here and the people could use it to fight 318 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 4: the Manchu troops, that would be good. 319 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: At some point, Rizza started to call Staten Island Shaolin, 320 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: the place he learned his secret weapon to fighting oppression 321 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: hip hop but Staten Island was also a version of 322 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: that distant oppressive government he saw in the films. And 323 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: as he walked the island trying to come up with 324 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: his next play, he didn't decide to start a group 325 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: called the Shaolin Clan. He came up with an idea 326 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: for something called the Wu Tang Clan, named after Chao 327 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: Lin's rival. This is from another kung fu movie they loved, 328 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: called Shao Lin Versus Wu Tang. 329 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 3: Isn't it true that you think you're better than us, 330 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 3: but you're afraid that one day the Wu Tang will 331 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 3: overtake you? 332 00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 7: You so you he was your special person to get 333 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 7: rid of. 334 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 8: By master, who was your biggest threat on sen No, 335 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 8: it isn't nice song with my own earnsense, Chao Lynn, I'm. 336 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 6: Afraid of the Wu Tang will Wu Tang will find 337 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 6: Listen to me. 338 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 3: Someone is trying to frame me. 339 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: Rizza kept walking and thinking Shao Lin Wu Tang thirty 340 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: six chambers, Shao Ln Wu Tang thirty six chambers. Wu 341 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: Tang biographer Skiz Fernando knew all about those walks Rizza 342 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: would take. 343 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 4: That's one good thing about state. Neile and you can 344 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 4: walk around in these nice neighborhoods with like Victorian mansions, 345 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 4: you don't have to worry about getting bugged necessarily. 346 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: And what would have been on the lawns of all 347 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: those Victorian mansions. Rizza was walking by signs that said 348 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: vote yes for the City of Staten Island, secession means 349 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: a better life, billboards for secession above the streets, the 350 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: same thing as was on the front page of the 351 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: paper all the time, the same thing the NAACP of 352 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: Staten Island was hosting meetings about, worrying that this could 353 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: be really bad for black people living on Staten Island. 354 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: Let me be clear, I have never found Riza himself 355 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: talking about Staten Island secession, but in my Kasmon mode 356 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: I see a connection. Because as he walked a Staten 357 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: Island that felt like it wasn't welcome in New York 358 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: City and was striking out on its own, this guy, 359 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: who had had every reason not to feel welcome on 360 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: Staten Island formed a plan for an unlikely hip hop 361 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: group from Shoolin that was about to do the same. 362 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: Maybe he thought they could skip the whole major label 363 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: thing that had screwed him before. Maybe he didn't have 364 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: to sanitize his life in character to succeed. Maybe there 365 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: could be a hip hop group from the forgotten borough 366 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: that made it all happen on its own, and that 367 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: group would be Wu Tang Clan. He began to assemble 368 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: his crew, and the core ideology for Riza I think 369 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: had a whole lot in common with the Secession movement. 370 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: It's the exact same fantasy. If some central authority is 371 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: dominating you and you don't like it, what do you do? 372 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: Go away to shoolin, learn the truth, build a movement, 373 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: and go to war with the oppressor till you remake 374 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: it in your own image. Let me put my kasavon 375 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: rode back on and bring you back into my library. 376 00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: Please sit at the table, have a mug of tepid tea. 377 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: I believe that the fantasy Wu Tang Clan had was 378 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: that there's a way to strike out on your own, 379 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: independently and take over the forces that oppressed you. And 380 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: that's the exact fantasy of the secessions emanating from the 381 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: exact remote island at the exact moment. So many people 382 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: on the island experienced it, and it was the spirit 383 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: of what skiz that Wu Tang biographer told me that 384 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: Riza did next. 385 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 4: He took the whole mythology that was in the movies 386 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 4: and he appropriated it to his current conditions of a 387 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 4: black man living in Staten Island doing battle in this 388 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 4: game call rap against the music industry. 389 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: Walking the island. Rizza had come up with a five 390 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: year plan. He'd go to the greatest underrated mcs he 391 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: knew on the island and banned them together into the 392 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: Wu Tang clan. He'd been burned by the labels before 393 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: with that Prince Rackim album, so now he wanted to 394 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: go it alone. He'd take the ten thousand dollars he'd 395 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: saved and use it to start a production company. 396 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 4: These guys had absolutely no future. They're all caught up 397 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 4: in the same They're all selling crack, you know, two 398 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 4: for five on the street. 399 00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: They didn't want to be doing that. The guys all 400 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 1: went out to a diner on Staten Island. They toasted 401 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: Wu Tang with a bottle of champagne. Each member put 402 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: up one hundred dollars for studio time. The next day 403 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: they started recording what became their first single, protect Yanik, 404 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: putting eight mcs on a track and making it all 405 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: blend together is as difficult as making five burrows feel 406 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: like one city. The difference is that Rizza was about 407 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: to pull it off. It took days of recording until 408 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: all the verses were in place. Like students at Shaolin 409 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: and Wu Tang, each MC was trying to one up 410 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: the other, pushing farther and farther beyond the reaches of 411 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: what existed in hip hop at the time. Rizza knew 412 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: each one's style and how to draw out what made 413 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: them unique. It was the opposite of some oppressive label 414 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: telling him we think girls will like it and new 415 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: tering his art. He didn't need the label. By December 416 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety two, the song was finished. The group 417 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: took the cassette of Protecting Neck to the hottest hip 418 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: hop radio show in Town Stretch and Babido Babido was 419 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: alone in the studio. 420 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 8: I'm not quite sure how members of the Wu Tang 421 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 8: clan got into our hallway, but I hear a knock 422 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 8: on the studio door. I open it and there's five 423 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 8: dudes out there, and then, not smiling. 424 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: They shoved an unmarked record into his hands. They're like 425 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: yo man, Yo, you got played this. You got played Yo, 426 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: we played it right now. 427 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 4: I was like, yo, fella is like, I can't. 428 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 8: I felt like I was being strong armed to play 429 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 8: their record immediately I was. 430 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 4: I was like, all, I fella's cool. 431 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: So I took the record. 432 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 4: I threw it all because I was. 433 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 8: I was intrigued. I was like, how did these does 434 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 8: mysteriously get into the studio. 435 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: He listened to it privately first. 436 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 8: And I hear the earner and earner, you know, the 437 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 8: martial arts, and uh, I'm like, oh, this this is dope. 438 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 8: You know I'm gonna play it. 439 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: It was the premiere that launched the Wu Tang clan. 440 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 2: Tell me about the damn like tups in Pakistan, swinging 441 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 2: through your town like your neighborhood spot a man so 442 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 2: on TikTok ticket. 443 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 8: But yeah, I mean immediately the phone lines let up. Immediately. 444 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 8: I'll never forget my friend. He called up and was. 445 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: Like, Yo, Wow, what the EPP is Dad? 446 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 8: I was like, Yo, I don't. 447 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: Know, I don't know, I don't know what the record is. 448 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: All right. I love this song And my favorite part 449 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: is the final verse, when Jesse explains the entire philosophy 450 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: of Wu Tang is that they don't need some centralized 451 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: music industry to take over the world. They can do 452 00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: it all on their own. 453 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 2: The woe was too slammon, but he's called killing label, 454 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 2: so he had to hit. Since I sing can't table, 455 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 2: he doing one on a sitting like Tang did table. 456 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: Now, any money's getting stuck till the gum under the table. 457 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: That's what what I avent poles And basically, you had 458 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: your chance, you lost it. We don't need you. It's 459 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: our time now the song blew up. You know what 460 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: I want here? What you want to hear? I want 461 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: Wu Tang again. So of course the labels came knocking. 462 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: But this time Rizza was ready no more Prince Rakim. 463 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: He was the king and he had a plan for 464 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: world domination. They would make a deal for Wu Tang 465 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: as a group, but he would do something totally unprecedented 466 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: in the industry. In the contract, there would be a clause. 467 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: Though all the mcs and Wu Tang might be consolidated 468 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: under the name Wu Tang Clan, and Wu Tang might 469 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: sign a record deal. Each MC was going to retain 470 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: local control of their own career. Each one could make 471 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: any deal he wanted with any other record label. Loud 472 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: Records agreed to Rizza's terms. Skiz Fernando a revolutionary deal 473 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: in the music industry. 474 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 4: The whole first round of Wu Tang solo albums was 475 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 4: like that, all on different labels and different artists, but 476 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 4: like all the Wu Tang's on each album, So they're 477 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 4: using the major label system to spread their own brand 478 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 4: out there. That was the genius of it, Like no 479 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 4: one had ever done anything like that before. 480 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: On November ninth, Wu Tang Clan played their album release 481 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: show for Enter the Wu Tang thirty six Chambers at 482 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: Webster Hall in the heart of Manhattan. Skiz was there. 483 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 4: The floor was packed with people. They were showing thirty 484 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 4: six Chambers the original on the big screen, and then 485 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 4: when the group got on to perform, Honestly, it seemed 486 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 4: like all of Staten Island was on stage. You didn't 487 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 4: know who was in the group and who wasn't because 488 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 4: it was just like the whole stage was packed, The 489 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 4: whole floor was packed. That whole floor was just bouncing 490 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 4: up and down these wooden rafters. I thought the whole 491 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 4: thing was going to collapse. It was just like people 492 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 4: were ready to tear shit down, the energy, the excitement 493 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 4: because they came from Staten Island. It was like a 494 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 4: sneak attack, like no one saw it coming. 495 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: Riza executed his plan flawlessly. Wu Tang released their debut album, 496 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: an absolutely bizarre hour long hip hop record full of 497 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: kung fu samples and weird jazz and nine unheard of mcs, 498 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: most of whom hailed from a forgotten island, an island 499 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: they'd renamed after a Chinese martial arts school, and it 500 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: went quadruple platinum. Here's method man on TV. 501 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 2: And we tried to lock down the industry, which you 502 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 2: cannot do because they already set in their ways, like 503 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 2: I said before, So what we have to do is 504 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 2: build our own industry to make it right. 505 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: Wu Tang's still playing together. So for me, in this 506 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: series on Secession, it's a lesson in how to keep 507 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: a group of people together. Not that the clans without 508 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: its problems, but the genius of the whole thing is 509 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: that Riza figured out how to showcase each rapper's own 510 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: personality and give them their own career. He went on 511 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: to produce a round of solo albums for each of 512 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: the mcs in the group hit after hit after hit, 513 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: each one on different record labels who were feverishly trying 514 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: to ride the Wu Tang wave method. Man on def 515 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: Jam Platinum, Old Dirty Bastard on WMG platinum, Rayquon on 516 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: RCA Platinum, Ghost Face Killer on Epic Platinum, Jizz on 517 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: Geffen Gold. Six hit albums in three years. Wu Tang 518 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: Clan ran the industry. These guys who had so much 519 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: working against them went to shoolin, came back on their 520 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: own terms and toppled the oppressor. 521 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 3: Don't think that because he has a solo deal and 522 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 3: I have a solo deal, this man may get a 523 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 3: solo deal that we all we all just separating and 524 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 3: breaking up. It's not that type of thing, man. We 525 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 3: just we just expanded because the talent is so great. 526 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 3: It's like we have we have mad talent in this, 527 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 3: you know, and. 528 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 4: We just got the spread out. 529 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 3: You know, you can't come out on one chain when 530 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 3: you just got the. 531 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: Spread This is the fantasy of secession. You break away, 532 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: you come back with a crew of guys from Staten 533 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: Island and you dominate. That's what Wu Tang did. That's 534 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: what the Staten Island secessionists dreamed of doing. It's the zeitgeist, 535 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: the key to all mythologies. Some force in the early 536 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: nineties of New York City was shouting secede, seceede. 537 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 3: Oh. 538 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: And by the way, the vote on secession it happened 539 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: seven days before the Wu Tang Clan put out their album, 540 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: and that vote was going to leave an even bigger 541 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: mark on our world today. That's coming up on the 542 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: last episode of The Staten Island. 543 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: Problem live here on Channel seventy seven from Secession headquarters 544 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 2: at the Island Chateau, Channel seventy seven bringing you that 545 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 2: live happening as. 546 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 4: It's so parallel. 547 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: Who gets to be in this position? 548 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 4: What's fair and what's not? 549 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 6: Who gets to wheel power? 550 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 4: Who doesn't? 551 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 9: These sentiments show up in so many places and parts 552 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 9: of our population right that sense of low boiling resentment 553 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 9: towards the people in charge, Like who doesn't feel that? 554 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 6: Right now? 555 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 9: Do you realize as a city that can plan for 556 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 9: its own, that doesn't have to say may I, may 557 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 9: I do this, and may I do that? 558 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 4: Where are we going? 559 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: What are we standing on top of? Right now? 560 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 7: We're standing on the story of New York City. If 561 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 7: you lived here between nineteen forty eight and two thousand 562 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 7: and one. You're here somewhere, maybe not in this exact mound, 563 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 7: but some piece of you, even if you just passed through, 564 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 7: some piece of you is underneath us. 565 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: The Staten Island Problem is written and produced by me 566 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: Ben Matta Haffrey, with Lucy Sullivan and Nina Bird Lawrence. 567 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: Our editor is Karen Schakerji. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. 568 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Sam Russick, Sound design and mastering by 569 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: Jake Gorsky. Original music by Stellwagon, Symfinette, Luis Gara, Jake Gorsky, 570 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: and thanks to Todd Reynolds for his track The Solution 571 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: from the album Outer Borrow Special thanks to Malcolm Gladwell. 572 00:32:46,960 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: I'm Ben mattap Haaffrey. Here. Episodes of Revisionist History The 573 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: Staten Island Problem early and ad free by subscribing to 574 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus line up on the Revisionist History Show page 575 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm slash Plus. 576 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus subscribers can access ad free episodes, full audiobooks, 577 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: and exclusive binges of true crime podcasts throughout the year.