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Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. Like the Kennedy's before them,

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Speaker 1: the Bidens are a tight, idealistic Irish Catholic clan with

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Speaker 1: good looks, dynastic ambitions, and serious personal problems. As the

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Speaker 1: book The Bidens reveals, the best way to understand Joe

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Speaker 1: biden as values, fears, and motives is to understand his family,

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Speaker 1: their Irish and not so Irish roots, their place in

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Speaker 1: the Delaware pecking order, their dodgy business deals, and their

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Speaker 1: personal struggles and triumphs alike. Here to talk about his

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Speaker 1: book The Bidens, inside the First Family's fifty year rise

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Speaker 1: to power. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, Ben Shreker.

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Speaker 1: He is a national political correspondent of Politico. Before that,

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Speaker 1: he served as g Hughes Washington correspondent and covered the

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Speaker 1: rise of Donald Trump as a campaign reporter for Politico. Then, welcome,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me on news World. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for having me. This is really an

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Speaker 1: amazingly timely book and deserves a great deal of national attention.

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Speaker 1: But I'm curiously in your own background. Me. You've had

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Speaker 1: a good, solid background as a journalist. How did you

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Speaker 1: end up becoming a national political correspondent a Politico. That's

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Speaker 1: a great question. I was on my campus newspaper at

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Speaker 1: Brown University. I did a fellowship at the Atlantic Media

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Speaker 1: Company out of school, did some freelancing after that, and

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Speaker 1: like many people who dabble in journalism, was planning to

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Speaker 1: go to law school when a job offer to come

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Speaker 1: down and work for Politico covering the presidential campaign the

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen cycle materialized and I moved down and did

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Speaker 1: that instead. And actually I was probably the first person

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Speaker 1: covering Donald Trump full time anywhere back in the summer

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Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. So I had a front or receipt to

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Speaker 1: some history there, and I learned a lot along the way.

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Speaker 1: Weren't you surprised at being so lonely? I mean, by

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Speaker 1: the summer of sixteen, he's already the presidential nominee. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it took a long time for the reality of the

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Speaker 1: Trump candidacy to set in for people. I think for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people was very surreal, and there was

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Speaker 1: a delayed recognition that he was a viable candidate. So

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Speaker 1: here you are. You covered Trump, and now you turned

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Speaker 1: to the bidens? What interested you in writing the bidens?

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Speaker 1: I had started out in the summer of twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: you know, early presidential primary time, decided to take a

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Speaker 1: look at Hunter Biden. It had been reported that then

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Speaker 1: President Trump's allies were looking to make hay out of

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Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's business dealings, you know, troubles with his personal

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Speaker 1: life had been in the news. I started out with

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Speaker 1: the idea of maybe doing a profile of Hunter Biden.

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Speaker 1: Pretty soon into the reporting, it became queer that it

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Speaker 1: would be less about Hunter Biden's life per se and

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Speaker 1: more about business dealings of his end of his uncle

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Speaker 1: jim Biden, one of President Biden's younger brothers, And did

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Speaker 1: a long story about that that came out probably in

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Speaker 1: August or September twenty nineteen, called Biden, Inc. And I

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Speaker 1: really thought that that would be the last time I

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Speaker 1: wrote on the subject of the business dealings and Biden's relatives.

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Speaker 1: But between the time I had started doing that reporting

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Speaker 1: in the time i'd published, there had actually been another

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Speaker 1: lawsuit filed against James Biden, Jimmy Biden down in Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: accusing him of invoking his brother's name and business dealings

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Speaker 1: and that sort of stuff. And through to election day

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, there was just sort of a steady trickle

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Speaker 1: of news on this topic, and I struggled a little

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Speaker 1: bit to reconcile what I was reporting in terms of

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Speaker 1: allegations being made in lawsuits, what I was hearing from

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Speaker 1: people who had done business with them, and the more

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Speaker 1: folksy image I had had of Joe Biden and his

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Speaker 1: family as someone who was just used consumer during the

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Speaker 1: Obama administration, when Vice President Biden had a sort of

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Speaker 1: an awe shocks, you know, uncle Joe kind of image,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to have a more complete understanding of

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Speaker 1: him and his family and how these two things sort

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Speaker 1: of fit together. And that's sort of the genesis of

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Speaker 1: the book. I'm fascinating because you started looking at the Bidens,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, I didn't realize this, but you discovered

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Speaker 1: that Joe Biden was not originally a Democrat. He was

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Speaker 1: sort of just a guy trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to rise, and he was tempted, at least briefly, to

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Speaker 1: be a Republican. That's right, and I think that's sort

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Speaker 1: of in many ways consistent with his political career. He's

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Speaker 1: someone who got along all right with other Republicans in Congress.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was a different era in the early

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Speaker 1: seventies when he got to the Senate, got along well

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Speaker 1: with Southern Democrats who were often very conservative. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he is very much a Democratic Party figure who is

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Speaker 1: often I think you know, in polling, he sometimes polls

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Speaker 1: right around where a generic Democrat polls. But there's an

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Speaker 1: alternate history, I guess, in which he could have joined

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party. It seems to me he sort of

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Speaker 1: reinvents himself three or four times. I mean, early on

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Speaker 1: he's very comfortable with Jesse Helms, he's very comfortable with

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Speaker 1: Southern Democrats, then gradually becomes more and more liberal, and

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Speaker 1: that has other kind of implications. But in many ways

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Speaker 1: he's a person continuously in transition for a very long time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Often his positions are moving with the sort

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Speaker 1: of weight of where the Democratic Party is at a

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Speaker 1: given time, and when you do that for forty or

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Speaker 1: fifty years, you can end up in different places at

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Speaker 1: different times. That sort of looked pretty contradictory, and that

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Speaker 1: could certainly be used as a criticism of someone who

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Speaker 1: spends their career in politics that they're going to have

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Speaker 1: a changing position. I think it's also interesting that beyond

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Speaker 1: just sort of the ways in which he stakes out positions.

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Speaker 1: He's very anti busting when that is a hot issue

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Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties. Obviously running for president in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, needing the support of black voters being a

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Speaker 1: very crucial demographic for him, That's not the sort of

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Speaker 1: positioning he staked out in recent years. Even more radical

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Speaker 1: to me in some ways is the fact that early

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Speaker 1: in his career he's viewed as a very gifted order

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Speaker 1: or a very slick speaker. But the question that gets

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Speaker 1: raised is but can we trust this guy? Is he

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Speaker 1: too ambitious? Because he runs for president in his forties

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight, he's very young by political standards, ambitious,

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Speaker 1: And now the image of Joe Biden is sort of

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Speaker 1: the opposite. It's not that this is a charismatic if

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Speaker 1: it speakers that this is somebody who is a gaff

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Speaker 1: machine who can trip over his tongue, but has this trusted,

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Speaker 1: esteemed position within the democratic establishment where he is viewed

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Speaker 1: in that coalition is the solid old workhorse. So he's

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Speaker 1: really had a full arc in terms of how he's

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Speaker 1: publicly perceived and in many cases in terms of the

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Speaker 1: political positions that he stakes out. One of the fascinating

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Speaker 1: things you emphasize in your book that from the very

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Speaker 1: beginning his running for the Senate was a family operation.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And one of the more telling, intriguing anecdotes

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Speaker 1: that stuck with me from coverage to that campaign, and

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Speaker 1: I think it was from maybe like an Esquire magazine

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Speaker 1: story written years later, was that when this campaign started

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Speaker 1: to have some legs, when it got big enough and

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Speaker 1: well funded enough to not just be purely a family operation,

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Speaker 1: they started vetting professional political consultants to help them. And

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Speaker 1: there was at least one consultant whose advice was, you

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Speaker 1: need to get your family out of your political pamphlets.

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Speaker 1: That's not the image we want. And that consultant was

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Speaker 1: not hired because Joe Biden and his relatives realized that

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Speaker 1: the family sort of was the message. It was, here's

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Speaker 1: this family man in a sense, the fact that they

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Speaker 1: also do business deals, that they're this sentiment. It's just

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Speaker 1: an extension of who they've always been, and they really

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Speaker 1: are a single extended family. Yes, you can say of

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Speaker 1: most people that they are very close with their family,

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Speaker 1: but that isn't the first thing that most people would

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Speaker 1: say about most other people. When you go around and

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Speaker 1: interview people who have known Joe Biden over the years,

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Speaker 1: that really is one of the first couple of things

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Speaker 1: that often people say that strikes them about him is

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Speaker 1: how close he is with his family, how tight knit

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Speaker 1: they are, how much he likes to help them. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: if you are supporter of Joe Biden, you say, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people fake being a family man. A

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Speaker 1: lot of political figures have a family forward public image

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Speaker 1: that isn't real. Joe Biden's case, it's very real. The

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Speaker 1: problem with that is when his relatives also go around

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Speaker 1: and in their business dealings leave all allegations that they're

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Speaker 1: invoking their closeness with Joe Biden as a political benefit

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Speaker 1: is something that can get people contracts a politically connected

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Speaker 1: business interests. For example, in a sense, he and the

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Speaker 1: family have done pretty well, they want the Senate seat,

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Speaker 1: things are going well, and then starting in nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: it all just kind of falls apart. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: runs for president, makes a fairly significant mistake, which Mike

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Speaker 1: Ducacus cleverly exploits to the limit. And it's really a

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Speaker 1: weird mistake because he's literally quoting from a speech by

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Speaker 1: Neil Kinnock about a Welsh coal mining family. And it's

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Speaker 1: a little hard to believe that Biden didn't sort of

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Speaker 1: some instinct that this just didn't fit, although his wife

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Speaker 1: later said it was unfair because somebody had written the speech,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it wasn't really his fault. But what's

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Speaker 1: your take on that. I mean, that is such a

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Speaker 1: dumb thing to have done. It's really one of those

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Speaker 1: classy examples of somebody who isn't paying attention. I think

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Speaker 1: whether that was perceived as a stupid mistake or a

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Speaker 1: sign of some deeper intent to deceive often depends on

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Speaker 1: the beholder. And at the time, this was really the

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Speaker 1: nail and the coffin of his campaign, and that there

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Speaker 1: was a perception that there were character flaws, that he

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Speaker 1: had overstated his academic credentials that came out sometime around

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Speaker 1: this period, that he had had a plagiarism issue in

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Speaker 1: law school. He has said that he was essentially queered

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Speaker 1: of having any intention to deceive, but it was at

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Speaker 1: least a very sloppy mistake in law school that came

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Speaker 1: back to haunt him and sort of played into this

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Speaker 1: early perception of him as being young and ambitious, and

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Speaker 1: his question of is the someone that we can trust?

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Speaker 1: And then over time, you know, later on he continues

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Speaker 1: to make gafts, but it's perceived more as stupid mistakes.

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Speaker 1: It is sort of interesting to look at whether that

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Speaker 1: issue of the Kinnock speech was about being sloppy or

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Speaker 1: about some will to deceive. And as you mentioned, one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I find most telling about this

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Speaker 1: whole thing is that decades later, his wife is insisting

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Speaker 1: that her husband did nothing wrong and that this was

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Speaker 1: someone else's fault, whereas Joe Biden himself is conceded that

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Speaker 1: he screwed it up, that this was his fault. But

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Speaker 1: I think that it is very difficult for one member

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Speaker 1: of the Biden family to concede that another member of

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Speaker 1: the Biden family has ever done anything wrong, especially publicly,

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Speaker 1: and that this is something that has repeated in recent years,

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Speaker 1: especially with and Biden, the ferocity with which he defends

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Speaker 1: the family. You cite the fact that the Obama staff

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Speaker 1: and vetting him for vice president raised a question about

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Speaker 1: the family, and he just grew angry and so keep

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Speaker 1: my family out of this, which, in a way, if

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Speaker 1: you're talking about the vice president in the States is

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a strange comment. Yeah, and that

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Speaker 1: is something that repeats Waiter. There's and I believe that

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Speaker 1: was from a New York Times story, but there's also

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Speaker 1: reporting in The New Yorker that this repeats Waiter. When

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Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's dealings with Barisma are raising issues during the

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Speaker 1: Obama years, and it's a sensitive issue within the State Department,

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Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out how to deal with it.

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Speaker 1: This is in the wake of Go Biden's death, and

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Speaker 1: there's an comment and a New Yorker article from a

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Speaker 1: Biden aid who says that they just couldn't bring themselves

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Speaker 1: to raise this with him, and so queerly, his personal

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Speaker 1: sensitivity around his family members creates a sort of no

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Speaker 1: go zone for scrutiny within his own circle and creates

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Speaker 1: what looks like a blind spot. I mean, at one level,

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Speaker 1: it's understandable. It is a human function, protecting your children

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Speaker 1: and your brothers. But on the other hand, and you

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Speaker 1: point out that when he enters the vice presidency he

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Speaker 1: is significantly in debt. His salary is not going to

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Speaker 1: get him out of that, and yet he today owns

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Speaker 1: three houses and seems to have done remarkably well as

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Speaker 1: far as what we know in terms of his finances.

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Speaker 1: He has written books, He's done what many political figures

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Speaker 1: have done when they leave office. In this case it

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Speaker 1: was between offices in terms of speaking deals and the like.

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Speaker 1: So he was on a government salary for his entire

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Speaker 1: adult wife. But always has spoken of a desire to

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Speaker 1: be prosperous and spoken quite explicitly about a desire for

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Speaker 1: his children to grow rich. And in some cases, especially

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Speaker 1: when it comes to things that Hunter was doing to

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Speaker 1: make money during the Obama years, that has come back

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Speaker 1: to bite them from that perspective, Is he your sense

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Speaker 1: that President Biden knew what Hunter was doing or that

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Speaker 1: he was just deliberately ignorant. I don't know what Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden did or didn't know or when he knew it

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Speaker 1: about about what Hunter Biden he's doing his business dealings.

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Speaker 1: We have little stint bits here and there. We have

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Speaker 1: this reporting I think again from the New Yorker that

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Speaker 1: when Hunter took on the Sporisma gig, his father said

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Speaker 1: to him something like, I hope you know what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: We have Joe Biden's statement made on the campaign trail

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Speaker 1: that I think again it's a very absolute statement. He

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Speaker 1: says something like, I've never discussed my relatives business dealings

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Speaker 1: with them or anyone else. Ever, that's a very blanket

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Speaker 1: statement for somebody who's extremely close with his family. Tony

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Speaker 1: Lensky has come out and said that's not true, at

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Speaker 1: least in general terms. I discussed some dealings with Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden that his brother and his son were pursuing in

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen with some people associated with a Chinese energy

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Speaker 1: company CEFC. But in terms of the full extent, if

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Speaker 1: it's anything beyond those things, we just don't know. Why

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Speaker 1: do you think Bobolenski's had such a hard time getting

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Speaker 1: taken seriously. I think a lot of it has to

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Speaker 1: do with the context. He came out two weeks before

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Speaker 1: presidential election. It was just after this New York Post

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Speaker 1: reporting had come out that some former members of the

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Speaker 1: intelligence community had said looked like Russian disinformation. There were

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Speaker 1: other reports that had been floating around that the Russians

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Speaker 1: would try to do something involving Hunter Biden Barisma before

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Speaker 1: the election, and this was something that happening to the

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Speaker 1: benefit of Donald Trump. Donald Trump for many years his

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Speaker 1: closest political advisor was Roger Stone. He's very much associated

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Speaker 1: with dirty tricks, and so I think at least one

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Speaker 1: reason why Bobo Lensky had a hard time getting a

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Speaker 1: full hearing was because there was sort of distrust about

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Speaker 1: someone coming forward on this subject at this time. I

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Speaker 1: can also say that I reached out to Bobo Lensky

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Speaker 1: during the campaign, you know, just when he was going

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Speaker 1: public after the campaign, and wasn't able to get him

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Speaker 1: to just sit down and go over this all with

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Speaker 1: me in person. He said, you know, look, I've made

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Speaker 1: my statement, it's out there. Why wouldn't you cover it?

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Speaker 1: But as a reporter, I wanted to sit down and

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Speaker 1: ask him questions and get every little detail that I

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Speaker 1: could to try to size up what he was saying.

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Speaker 1: So the Hunter Biden laptop is one story, and Hunters

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Speaker 1: dealings one story. Well, what struck me was you also

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Speaker 1: have the brothers. It's not just a Hunter story, although

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Speaker 1: that's where they spotlight has been. So the brothers also

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Speaker 1: have done very well off of President Biden, haven't they well?

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Speaker 1: In terms of financially, It's hard to get dollar figures,

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Speaker 1: but what I can say for sure is that again

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Speaker 1: and again and again over the decades, they pursue business

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Speaker 1: opportunities or get woans in which the other parties are

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Speaker 1: donors to their brother or political allies of their brother,

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Speaker 1: and that it's sort of remarkable the number of different

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Speaker 1: times this has happened and across five decades now. And

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Speaker 1: I think that Jim Biden, especially who is the middle

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Speaker 1: Biden brother of the three brothers in the family, is

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Speaker 1: someone who takes Hunter under his wing when Hunter is younger,

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Speaker 1: sort of mentors him in business. And I think for

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Speaker 1: understanding what Hunter does in business, you have to understand

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Speaker 1: what his uncle Jimmy was doing before him and in

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Speaker 1: many cases with him. You know, these dealings with CEFC,

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Speaker 1: for example, are very much both Jim and Hunter. There's

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Speaker 1: a hedge fund that they owned together when Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: is Chairman of Senate Foreign Relations for example. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the brothers are an important part of the story. You

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Speaker 1: have a the FBI were tap as early as two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven picking up references to impending meetings with

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Speaker 1: Biden and with the Senate bill and things going on,

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Speaker 1: so that the FBI was already interested in what was happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I should be queer that that is sort of

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Speaker 1: a snippet of conversation. It's not really queer what it

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Speaker 1: refers to the people on the call, and the Bidens

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Speaker 1: have said that's not really referring to anything substitutive, So

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Speaker 1: it's not queer in that case. How interested the FBI

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Speaker 1: was in members of the Biden family, But if you

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Speaker 1: look at what that's taken from, what's the context of

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Speaker 1: that wire tap, it is political allies of the Bidens

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Speaker 1: and business partners of the Bidens who go down for

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Speaker 1: bribing a judge. And these are people who are showing

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Speaker 1: up at campaign events. So I see a fundraiser for

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden's twenty eight presidential bid, which didn't really make

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Speaker 1: it even into or two thousand and eight, and we're

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Speaker 1: planning to go into business doing a sort of lobbying

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Speaker 1: and public affairs shop with Jim Biden. And so then

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Speaker 1: just the sheer number of business partners of Biden family

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Speaker 1: members who end up in jail on corruption or fraud

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Speaker 1: charges is quite large. But it's not just a couple.

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Speaker 1: When you look at all this, you end up with

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Speaker 1: Hunter getting contracts which he has zero experience. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to get an occasional million dollars just because I know

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Speaker 1: important people, and you end up with Joe basically taking

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Speaker 1: him with him to China, for example an air Force

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Speaker 1: two while claiming that there's no real connection. I mean,

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Speaker 1: doesn't the whole thing, at least on the surface, have

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Speaker 1: an overwhelming sense of influenced peddling. Yes, I think that

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Speaker 1: if you work holistically five decades, it's queer that there

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Speaker 1: is willingness a desire to at least trade on the name,

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Speaker 1: go to people who have an interest in being in

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Speaker 1: Joe biden good graces and pitch them on doing business

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Speaker 1: and in some cases just retrostring as a lobbyist and

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Speaker 1: working as a lobbyist. And if influenced paddling is just

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Speaker 1: another name for a lobbying which maybe Hunter Biden has

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Speaker 1: been a registered lobbyist. Frank Biden has been a registered lobbyist.

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Speaker 1: Miss Owens, who is Joe Biden's niece and Valerie Biden's daughter,

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Speaker 1: has registered as a lobbyist in the past. So yes,

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Speaker 1: government affairs part of the family business, and it can't

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Speaker 1: be missed that these people are relatives of a high

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Speaker 1: ranking office holder. From the research you've done, you don't

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Speaker 1: have any proof that there was a direct quid pro

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Speaker 1: quel or a direct engagement of the president. I've not

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Speaker 1: seen evidence of that. So that context, why has Hunter's

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Speaker 1: laptop such a bomb show? In some ways, the contents

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Speaker 1: of the laptop, what we've learned from them thus far,

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Speaker 1: aren't really what makes it explosive, or at least not

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Speaker 1: in isolation. It's become this massive flashpoint in our politics

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Speaker 1: that's sort of about more than just the contents of

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Speaker 1: the laptop and what Hunter Biden was or wasn't doing,

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Speaker 1: but has in many ways something that encompasses questions about

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Speaker 1: big tech companies, big tech platforms and the power that

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Speaker 1: they should have, and whether certain media outlets show preference

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Speaker 1: to one party or one candidate or the other. And

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Speaker 1: it's become wrapped up in all that. What I've seen

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Speaker 1: from the laptop so far, none of it has really

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Speaker 1: blown my mind, because it's largely just been consistent with

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Speaker 1: or an extension of things I've seen elsewhere in my reporting.

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Speaker 1: I think for most people, they weren't digging through lawsuits

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Speaker 1: related to Paradigm, this hedge fund that Jimmy and Hunter

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Speaker 1: Biden had operated fifteen years ago now and other similar episodes,

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Speaker 1: and so something about dealings with the Chinese, with a

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Speaker 1: Chinese energy company and that sort of thing, meetings with

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Speaker 1: what a connected or state backed firms around the world,

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Speaker 1: that was coming more out of left field for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who weren't just aware that this was

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Speaker 1: the sort of stuff Hunter Biden had been doing for

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Speaker 1: many years and that James Biden had been doing for

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Speaker 1: many years. I find it to be a rich trove

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Speaker 1: of information that shows how someone who is very politically

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Speaker 1: connected is doing business, was doing business trying to do business.

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Speaker 1: But beyond that, I think sort of the ultimate significance

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Speaker 1: of some of the documents in it isn't yet queer.

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Speaker 1: Did you spend much time looking at the Penn Biden

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Speaker 1: Center and the Delaware Biden Center. I didn't, and I

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Speaker 1: regret that because I've seen that there's been good reporting

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Speaker 1: on it, and I do think that the alliance between

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Speaker 1: political figures and institutions of higher education is a very

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Speaker 1: interesting one to look at, and that Joe Biden's it

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Speaker 1: would have been a very interesting case study, but it

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Speaker 1: never ended up being a big focus of the reporting done.

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Speaker 1: I've recently spent a bit of time digging into this

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Speaker 1: and it looks like the University of Pennsylvania may have

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Speaker 1: gotten as much as sixty seven million from the Chinese

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Speaker 1: Communist And we don't know anything but the University of

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Speaker 1: Delaware because they actually exempted themselves from the Freedom of

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Speaker 1: Information Act law and Delaware so they did not have

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Speaker 1: to respond to any Floyer requests. So we don't have

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Speaker 1: any idea where the money came from or how it's

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Speaker 1: been spent. It also turned out, I think ten of

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Speaker 1: the figures in the Biden administration actually were on the

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Speaker 1: payroll at the penn Biden Center. It was a nice

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Speaker 1: holding tank to take care of the team in between offices.

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Speaker 1: And I think that will grow into a major kind

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Speaker 1: of problem. What do you think Biden does? You've studied

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Speaker 1: him now a long time. You have a good sense

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Speaker 1: for him. Has there any reason for him not to run?

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Speaker 1: He's very old and Republicans now control the House of Representatives,

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Speaker 1: and they have made it very queer that investigating him,

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Speaker 1: investigating his son our top priorities. So I could imagine

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Speaker 1: somebody saying that they don't want to go through another

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Speaker 1: presidential run. He has said her relatives have said that

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Speaker 1: these elections are personally trying for members of his family.

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Speaker 1: That being said, he has spent almost his entire adult

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Speaker 1: life in federal office, and so really finally hanging it

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Speaker 1: in maybe something that he is not ready to do,

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Speaker 1: even at his age. It seems to me that the

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Speaker 1: more Trump runs, the more Biden wants to run, because

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Speaker 1: he's not going to let Trump out last him. There's

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Speaker 1: a certain pattern there, and Kindra that No was chance

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Speaker 1: of Germany at ninety three, So there are some occasional

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Speaker 1: examples of people who have unusual longevity and staying in

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Speaker 1: public life. What are you working on now? In terms

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Speaker 1: of what I can talk about, I've been covering technology

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Speaker 1: for the last year, the intersection of emerging technology and

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Speaker 1: politics and policy, which has been a nice break from

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Speaker 1: the more partisan, rancorous topics that I've been covering and

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Speaker 1: embroiled in for the last eight years. So things like blockchain, cryptocurrency,

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Speaker 1: what's now being called Web three. It's a change of pace.

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Speaker 1: It's been good to learn about those things. That's great.

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Speaker 1: Does that lead to a book? Do you think? Oh?

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Speaker 1: At some point, I would hope. So. There is so

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Speaker 1: much going on the world is changing rapidly because of

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Speaker 1: these technologies, blockchain could really It hasn't really disrupted the

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Speaker 1: way that money and finance work yet, but it's been

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Speaker 1: a disruptive force and it might go away. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's been a crash in the markets for it. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of private actors, state backed actors all looking

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Speaker 1: at this and trying to figure out what to do

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Speaker 1: with it. So I hope there's a book in it

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Speaker 1: at some point. Great, well, we look forward to it,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you'll come back when the book comes out,

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Speaker 1: share some more of your insights and you're learning. I

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00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: think this has been very, very helpful, and I want

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00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: to thank you for joining me. I think your book

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00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 1: is remarkable. I've biden for years, but there's a lot

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00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: of stuff in your book that I had no idea about.

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00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: It's a fascinating read, and I encourage all of our

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Speaker 1: listeners to buy a copy of The Bidens Inside the

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Speaker 1: First Family's Fifty Year Rise to Power. So thank you

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00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: for joining us, Thanks very much for having me speaking,

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00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: which hope to be back. Thank you to my guest

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Speaker 1: Ben Schreckinger. You can get a link to buy his book,

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Speaker 1: The Bidens Inside the First Family's Fifty Year Rise to

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00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: Power on our show page at newtsworld dot com. News

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Speaker 1: World is produced by getting Wich, Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia.

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Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Gornsey Sloan, our producer is Rebecca Howe,

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Speaker 1: and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the

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Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the

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Speaker 1: team at Gingwich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld,

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Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners

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Speaker 1: of news World consigner from my three free weekly columns

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Speaker 1: at gingwire dot com slash newsletter, I'm Newt Gingrich. This

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Speaker 1: is Newtsworld