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Speaker 1: stories of things we simply don't know the answer too.
Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe,
Speaker 1: joined as always by Devin and Steve, and if you
Speaker 1: are not familiar with us, every week we get together
Speaker 1: and solve another really cool mystery. Right, No, we solve them.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we saw them. Yeah, I mean we solve
Speaker 1: them of course. Yeah. Yeah. We use our amazing powers
Speaker 1: of ratios and nation to deduce the answers. Or we
Speaker 1: just that was a really big word that I don't understand,
Speaker 1: so let's just go yeah, or we just tortured the
Speaker 1: data intel what confesses. But you know, one way or
Speaker 1: the other we get our answer. Okay, let's talk about
Speaker 1: this week history. Uh, this week we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about the cyclops yea, and by that I don't mean
Speaker 1: the huge Harry dude with an eyeball in his forehead
Speaker 1: Cyclops Harry um depends on the version. Yeah there were
Speaker 1: a lot of different versions of Are you're thinking of
Speaker 1: the Sinbad version, the old sixties movie or no, not
Speaker 1: that one. That's only one of them. Yeah, this is
Speaker 1: actually had to deal with the Cyclops she's talking about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he he was kind of clever about he just
Speaker 1: poked his eye out after that, he was about his
Speaker 1: mercy him pretty much. Okay, let's talk about our cyclops.
Speaker 1: Different one. We're talking about the U. S. S Cyclops,
Speaker 1: which some of you may may have heard about. This
Speaker 1: was a huge deal way back in the day when
Speaker 1: it happened, and then it sort of went away, and
Speaker 1: then it sort of made a comeback, as mysteries go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a reason for that also. I'll explain that a
Speaker 1: little bit. But the Cyclops was a coal carrying ship
Speaker 1: that was built for the U. S. Navy in the
Speaker 1: early nineteenth century. I think it was actually launched in
Speaker 1: nineteen ten, but it didn't get commissioned into the navy seventeen.
Speaker 1: But on March fourth, the USS Cyclops left Barbados for Baltimore,
Speaker 1: Maryland with three six crew and passages on board and
Speaker 1: a load of manganese or and it vanished without a trace. Yep,
Speaker 1: it was it near Bermuda. They did, They did go
Speaker 1: through the Bermudi triangle. As a matter of fact, there
Speaker 1: were a lot of people theorizing about that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: there was no radio distress call. No wreckage at all
Speaker 1: was ever found, not even an oil slick on the
Speaker 1: water they searched for it. Ever, Well, somebody did claim
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty two have found the wreckage of a
Speaker 1: lifeboat that had us like us Cyclo stanciled on it.
Speaker 1: And he claimed, but that's something that's obviously a boat
Speaker 1: called the Cyclo and not the cyclops. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's the thing about it is, it's a
Speaker 1: It was a large ship, five forty two ft long, big,
Speaker 1: the big ship, and the ship that size doesn't just sink,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it takes a while usually. I
Speaker 1: mean the Titanic, which was even bigger, of course, but
Speaker 1: it had a catastrophic collision, catastrophic damage, and it still
Speaker 1: took hours to sink. And yet this thing thanks so
Speaker 1: quickly or else it was beamed up to a spaceship,
Speaker 1: it seems to have. If it sunk, sunk so quickly
Speaker 1: nobody got a chance to run to the radio and
Speaker 1: get the help button, yeah, or launch the lifeboats or
Speaker 1: anything anything like that. Yeah, so that's where the mystery is.
Speaker 1: Normally at this point in the story, i'd stop and
Speaker 1: thanks somebody for suggesting it. But but actually there was
Speaker 1: no suggestion. So I had to put on my internet
Speaker 1: boots and go out and find this mystery myself, honest word. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was on a page with the heading tendisterious
Speaker 1: Disappearance is so creepy you'll wet your pants. Actually, think
Speaker 1: I've watched that YouTube video. Yeah, I gotta tell you.
Speaker 1: I mean I spent more time perusing pages like this.
Speaker 1: I think I've seen every single page that has a
Speaker 1: heading like this tend Mysterious murders or stint Downstairs. I've
Speaker 1: seen every single one of them, which is pretty creative.
Speaker 1: Thought your pants. Yeah, yeah, there was another one that's
Speaker 1: like evill slowly or drawers. Yeah, some variationally, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's true, like we've talked about, I watched
Speaker 1: the we watched those videos at my house on YouTube,
Speaker 1: and I think we've kind of hit a point where
Speaker 1: I'm like, have we seen this one? And he's like yeah,
Speaker 1: like five times, and I'm like, well, it's less than
Speaker 1: most of them. So let's watch this one. Okay, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're good. I mean, they're good fodder. But you know,
Speaker 1: at this point we've covered a lot of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we really have. We're gonna have to start making stuff
Speaker 1: up here, pretty good. The disappearance of the Cyclops was
Speaker 1: a pretty big deal at the time. I think well
Speaker 1: over ten years it was. All kinds of articles were
Speaker 1: being written, tons of speculation, and a lot of theories
Speaker 1: have been floated, ranging from a giant octopus, Bermuda triangle,
Speaker 1: Shenanigan's mutiny, murder, treason. You both it down. I stopped
Speaker 1: after the second one. I realized I didn't have anything else. All, Right,
Speaker 1: back to it, you guys be serious now, sorry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go back to the beginning. The Cyclops
Speaker 1: was one of four ships built for the Navy in
Speaker 1: a very limited class. It was called the Proteus class. Uh.
Speaker 1: They were built the Hall coal for refueling US warships
Speaker 1: because this was before the transition to oil, and and
Speaker 1: that's a that's a big problem in war when you
Speaker 1: run on coal is delivering coal, you don't have fuel,
Speaker 1: Your warships can't fight, can't do a lot. Believe it
Speaker 1: or not. That's not how it works. It is, so
Speaker 1: you basically have to have a big You gotta get
Speaker 1: a big tanker. He used to run around and deliver
Speaker 1: cold everybody. Yeah, and that's what they did. Obviously, it's
Speaker 1: better in these days we have nuclear reactors and fun
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Oh yeah, because those are so much better.
Speaker 1: Or as the captain of my cruise ship used to say,
Speaker 1: they just have an electric cord. Yeah that plugs in
Speaker 1: in Miami, just goes along the floor. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: the ocean the Bahamas aren't that far. Yeah, the ocean
Speaker 1: that long of extension cord like the home depot or
Speaker 1: something together. Remember when you plug them together though the tie.
Speaker 1: Well that's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, is that not true?
Speaker 1: Was he lying to me? He wasn't lying to you.
Speaker 1: Uh oh where was I? Oh? Yeah. The other ships
Speaker 1: in the class were named Proteus, Jupiter, and near Us.
Speaker 1: Uh And in a fun fact, every ship in this
Speaker 1: class came to a bad end. And this was not
Speaker 1: a good design. Well maybe not, I don't know. Anyway,
Speaker 1: the Cyclops displaced andeen thousands, six hundred seventy tons that's loaded.
Speaker 1: So that was a big ship. Also mentioned the captain
Speaker 1: of the Cyclops because he was kind of a character
Speaker 1: and he figures in a few of the theories about
Speaker 1: what happened to the Cyclops. His name was George Worley.
Speaker 1: He was German by birth and rumored rumored to b
Speaker 1: pro German. And did I mentioned this was during World
Speaker 1: War One? Yeah? I mean you mentioned the year, but
Speaker 1: some of us don't like automatically. Yeah, okay, so yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, Worley was not his original name. More on
Speaker 1: that later. But as far as the Navy knew, he
Speaker 1: was George Worley and he had been born in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: At this point in time, they found out their background
Speaker 1: checks were maybe not the best. No, really no, but
Speaker 1: Captain Worley was not well liked by his crew. He
Speaker 1: had some strange habits, apparently, like walking around in his
Speaker 1: long underwear wearing a bowler hat carrying a cane. Is
Speaker 1: that not a thing that people like? I guess people
Speaker 1: thought it was weird. I guess I'll go put some
Speaker 1: clothes on, hold on it. Yeah, sorry, guys. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know if he did that all the time. I
Speaker 1: have a feeling that the bowler had long underwear. Instance,
Speaker 1: was at one of the times that he was medicinally
Speaker 1: taking sherry in great quantities, taking sure did. Actually, he
Speaker 1: defended himself once in court by saying, the crew get
Speaker 1: upset because I take sherry for medicinal reasons. Well, he
Speaker 1: was known for being drunk and disorderly. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: the crew accused him of. But actually he said in
Speaker 1: the hearing about this, he said that he had to
Speaker 1: He had had berry berry apparently previously, and he still
Speaker 1: had problems associated with that, and so he had to
Speaker 1: take a couple of different medicines to come to come this. Spoilers, Wait, spoilers,
Speaker 1: because right, the crew disappeared forever. Yeah, right, everybody, everybody,
Speaker 1: everybody disappeared forever. So like, why how did they do
Speaker 1: an interview with him? This is a this is three
Speaker 1: previous the voyage that the ship disappears on. This happened.
Speaker 1: This happened in August. He came back. Yeah, they all
Speaker 1: came back in the dead. But that's like that guy
Speaker 1: recently who got caught drunk driving a truck and said, no,
Speaker 1: I have that disease where my body metabolizes food as alcohol.
Speaker 1: Were like, I mean, that's the thing people do have that.
Speaker 1: There are people that had that, but I maybe like,
Speaker 1: if you have that, maybe don't be a truck driver. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it. That's not not a good excuse. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: similar to me. That would be I mean, in a way,
Speaker 1: that would be a really cool disease to have. At
Speaker 1: the same time, it would be it would kind of
Speaker 1: But no, this guy he was he was not like
Speaker 1: by his crew at all. He was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: But anyway, back to the show. He didn't take the
Speaker 1: sherry for medicinal purposes, but apparently the stuff that he
Speaker 1: had to take for his symptoms was so foul that
Speaker 1: he had to mix it in with alcohol to make
Speaker 1: it more palatable, and so that's why. So that was
Speaker 1: his big excuse. Apparently that was enough to get him by.
Speaker 1: But he still loved to chew people out. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah he did. He did. He had to chew people out.
Speaker 1: Apparently sometimes got kind of violent. At the Official Board
Speaker 1: of Inquiry in August nine, forty crewman had signed a
Speaker 1: petition accusing him of being drunk, foul mouthed, and unfit
Speaker 1: for command. That the ACCUSI was chasing an enstant named G. G.
Speaker 1: McCain around the boat with a pistol one time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So he was an interesting character. And this of course
Speaker 1: was sort of after the fact, after the disappearance, but
Speaker 1: the U. S. Council in Barbados, and a guy named
Speaker 1: Charles Livingston wrote a telegram to the State Department that
Speaker 1: there had been a quote disturbance unquote on the ship
Speaker 1: before had it had arrived in Barbados, perhaps a mutiny,
Speaker 1: and he said that the miniment can find the quarters
Speaker 1: and that would have been executed. Although that on the ship,
Speaker 1: well there it appears that there might have been a
Speaker 1: little confusion about that. They took on five prisoners in Rio. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and three of those had been three of those
Speaker 1: have been accused of committee murder on another U. S. Warship.
Speaker 1: They were being taken back, and on them was to
Speaker 1: be executed. You had already apparently been convicted by a
Speaker 1: Navy board, I think, and so he was to be executed.
Speaker 1: So that might be where the confusions said. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think that war actually executed. No, no, I
Speaker 1: don't know that worly executed anybody. But you and I,
Speaker 1: Joe were talking about this earlier. Some stuff I had
Speaker 1: found was that this was not the first time that
Speaker 1: Worley had been in hot water, and that he had
Speaker 1: been If we're saying that this was a would we
Speaker 1: call what was going on here? This was a complaint,
Speaker 1: not a mutiny? Right? Yeah? Okay, Well there had evidently
Speaker 1: been a mutiny slash complaint at sea, whenever you want
Speaker 1: to call it, and somebody had been beheaded under his
Speaker 1: command on the boat, and he was never fingered for
Speaker 1: being the one who committed the act, but it was
Speaker 1: believed that it was at his direction, whether that was
Speaker 1: directly saying cut his head off or indirectly. So like
Speaker 1: he he really was kind of a tyrant, and people
Speaker 1: died under his command and he was he's a bit
Speaker 1: of a nutter. Yeah, it sounds like in his in
Speaker 1: his defense, he was in a tough position because he
Speaker 1: was running a big ship that has crew like two
Speaker 1: thirty six, and almost everybody in his crew was young
Speaker 1: and inexperienced to me, because there was so much recruit Yeah,
Speaker 1: they weren't. They weren't regular navy men. So I will
Speaker 1: give you that. I can understand were reservist didn't who
Speaker 1: just suddenly got called up because of the war. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and shoved onto this boat. And so from Warley's point
Speaker 1: of view, he's an experienced captain and everybody under him
Speaker 1: was kind of an inexperienced and incompetent. I mean, I
Speaker 1: can imagine its frustration. Yeah, yeah, And I guess it's also,
Speaker 1: you know, plausible that the crews that he would have
Speaker 1: been used to working with would have been used to
Speaker 1: taking orders and maybe if you're just kind of a
Speaker 1: young reserve guy, you're not so used to that. And
Speaker 1: so you know when your captain says do this, and
Speaker 1: you're like, well, I don't know, he's kind of a jerk, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, versus like, yes, sir, whatever, sir. You see
Speaker 1: that in jobs too, so that if you're if you're
Speaker 1: hauling your coal ship, all you do is run around
Speaker 1: in hall coal that is a wet, dirty, cruddy, unforgiving.
Speaker 1: Jobs are going to run high. Not the most glamorous
Speaker 1: job in the navy. Although on the plus side, and
Speaker 1: you're not writing the miss in the heat of battle
Speaker 1: all the time, there's a benefit right there. And you're
Speaker 1: still in a little bit of danger because obviously you're
Speaker 1: a viable target. Somebody might just decide to sink you
Speaker 1: because obviously if you deprived the battleships of their coal,
Speaker 1: and hey, that that accomplishes something, right there. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's get back to our story. Let's talk about their
Speaker 1: final mission. And of course it wasn't supposed to be
Speaker 1: their final mission. It turned out it was to leave
Speaker 1: the Chesapeake Bay go to the South Atlantic to Rio
Speaker 1: de Janeiro, Brazil, to fuel British warships. And the plan
Speaker 1: wasn't they would pick up a little manganese or to
Speaker 1: take back to the United States. Yeah, very sweet. And
Speaker 1: they left Rio apparently, and there's there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of infusion about this where they whether they picked it
Speaker 1: up in Rio or they picked it up in Bahia, Brazil.
Speaker 1: Um the most most of the things that I see
Speaker 1: say they picked it up in Rio. Eleven thousand tons,
Speaker 1: which by the way, is more than the ship was
Speaker 1: designed to carry. Yeah, they're they're covering a higher load
Speaker 1: than rated for. Yeah. Yeah, well were they how much more?
Speaker 1: I have heard anywhere between eight thousand and nine hundred
Speaker 1: fair amount? Yeah, yeah, And the said yeah, nine six
Speaker 1: hundred tons, and so yeah, they're well over anywhere from
Speaker 1: ten more than they were supposed to. Yeah, we're not
Speaker 1: talking Yeah, We're not talking like just a mirror. Hundred tons, yeah,
Speaker 1: a substantial amount. Also, they took on seventy three passengers
Speaker 1: who were sailors and marines from the South season, who
Speaker 1: are also equivalent to about a hundred tons. Yeah. When
Speaker 1: you talk about all those guys and at all the
Speaker 1: extra food and water that you're gonna have to feed
Speaker 1: them with soot, you know. Yeah, then they stay to
Speaker 1: sail to Bahia in Brazil. And I'm not sure why
Speaker 1: they went there, but they went there because why wouldn't you, Brazil,
Speaker 1: Let's go have some fun. You know, you're on a
Speaker 1: boat with a lot of dudes free weeks. A thing
Speaker 1: I got to find out at that Martin Moules. You
Speaker 1: ever heard men by Martin Mule? So they departed for
Speaker 1: Baltimore if every nineteen eighteen, And by the way, the
Speaker 1: starboard engine was out. They had a crack cylinder head,
Speaker 1: which meant that they when you only have one screw,
Speaker 1: that's going to greatly reduce your speed. It was it
Speaker 1: was only able to do what two thirty miles a day?
Speaker 1: I think that equates. It was like two hundred two
Speaker 1: five miles a day. And that wasn't something that could
Speaker 1: have been fixed in Brazil. Apparently they looked at it
Speaker 1: there and then and they decided that it should go back,
Speaker 1: so I should go back to the US to be repaired.
Speaker 1: I believe it was a cracked piston, as a crack cylinder.
Speaker 1: I've heard it was cylinder act manifold or non man
Speaker 1: so maybe something that had to be in dry dock
Speaker 1: for and that you wouldn't you'd have to offload all
Speaker 1: of them. You wouldn't just weld it together. They probably
Speaker 1: bring in a whole new piece. Yeah, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know that it required actual engine replacement. I mean
Speaker 1: it's possible if it's just like a cylinder head, they
Speaker 1: might have just been able to replace it without even
Speaker 1: dry docking it. But I don't know. But I doubt
Speaker 1: that they had that custom part. I probably haven't, and
Speaker 1: it might might well have been to that the Navy
Speaker 1: was going to hurry to get their manganese which there,
Speaker 1: and so they decided rather than waiting, we'll just send
Speaker 1: me to sea with one motor, or ex sees me
Speaker 1: one engine only. So I don't think it's always a
Speaker 1: great idea of personal It didn't work out, let's see
Speaker 1: less it didn't work out for the circuf. It didn't
Speaker 1: work out for the chow either. It's just not worked out. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really doesn't always work out. More often than not,
Speaker 1: it doesn't work. Yeah. The Cyclops made an unscheduled stopover
Speaker 1: in Bridgetown, Barbadoes. Again, I mentioned Charles Livingstone, the console
Speaker 1: before Consul general Console General. Yeah, in Barbados, Worsley told
Speaker 1: him that he needed six hundred tons of coal and
Speaker 1: he also needed more supply. Sorry, weren't they transporting they
Speaker 1: that fueled boats. Yeah, they transported coal down and they
Speaker 1: and they offloaded on the on the other ships, and
Speaker 1: they didn't have Okay, presumably presumably they kept a little
Speaker 1: of reserve for their own engines. Yeah, because they also
Speaker 1: but he apparently, which is weird. Also, because they were
Speaker 1: only feeding, they were feeding half the engines they would
Speaker 1: have normally been feeding, right, so it seems like they
Speaker 1: would have extra. Yeah, I know Livingstone was suspicious about
Speaker 1: that because he thought that they should have enough. I
Speaker 1: didn't look this up, Joe. How many boilers did this
Speaker 1: ship have? Do you know? You know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure at least two, if not four. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what I mean I never saw that in any of
Speaker 1: the stuff. No, I never did. Still, they shouldn't have.
Speaker 1: You would think they would not devil brings up a
Speaker 1: great point. You wouldn't burn but half of what you
Speaker 1: normally do, even if you're running that boiler full tilt,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be burning the normal daily amount. Probably not.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I mean, it might
Speaker 1: be that you can run all all the boilers and
Speaker 1: just direct all that all that energy to one engine
Speaker 1: and get extra poop out of it. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it could be that they that one screw can take
Speaker 1: that much torque. I don't know. Yeah, but so Livingston
Speaker 1: was suspicious, and I don't know if he was suspicious
Speaker 1: at the time or if this is just in retrospect
Speaker 1: after the different retrospection. Yeah, but yeah, the but they
Speaker 1: took on like a ton of meat, a ton of flour,
Speaker 1: half a ton of vegetables, so they are just continually
Speaker 1: adding more and more lates. Presumably though, if they're taking
Speaker 1: on all that stuff, that means that they're out of
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff, right, They've used a lot
Speaker 1: of that presumably presumably, Yeah, theoretically presumably, but maybe not.
Speaker 1: Probably I'll talk I'll talk a little bit more about
Speaker 1: Charles Livingston and his suspicions in a bit here, Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: As I said before, the Cyclops departed bridge Town on
Speaker 1: March fourth with three hundred six crewmen, officers, and passengers
Speaker 1: and just for unit pickers out there. I know this
Speaker 1: number varies among different accounts. Some people have it at
Speaker 1: three hundred nine. You see it swing twenty people in
Speaker 1: either direction, ball back. Yeah, it possible, they just don't
Speaker 1: know for sure. That's that's a good point. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: any way, they left with all these a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of people, over three hundred people, and it was never
Speaker 1: seen again. The last contact was the Cyclops made radio contact,
Speaker 1: according to one source that I found with a passenger
Speaker 1: liner called the Mistress on March five, and they reported
Speaker 1: good weather. That's a day later, and that was the
Speaker 1: last anybody heard of the Cyclops, although it's possible it's
Speaker 1: been seen since then because in but there was no jar.
Speaker 1: There was actually one other pose in sighting not too
Speaker 1: long after that. Yeah, you're talking about the molasses tanker. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that thing that appears to not be true, though it
Speaker 1: was obviously Canadian. I was going to say, was it slow? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was. There was a ship that said that it
Speaker 1: sawed off of the northeastern US Cone and it was
Speaker 1: a Canadian molasses. But there's no way that it could
Speaker 1: have made it there in enough time. I guess I
Speaker 1: didn't feel I want to make sure that we're covering
Speaker 1: all our basis of that's not the only report. Ok. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's going to keep making. That's why I didn't stop.
Speaker 1: It was slow going. Yeah, it's called the Amulco. I
Speaker 1: guess I just didn't realize that there was such a
Speaker 1: demand that they had to put tankers full of molasses
Speaker 1: to float them down the river. I kind of like
Speaker 1: the idea. I think it's got a cool it's the
Speaker 1: tanker of molasses heading to the tanker of flapjacks. Oh
Speaker 1: my god. It's kind of like that how peanut butter
Speaker 1: cups got invented, you know. I mean, so there's a
Speaker 1: there's a guy, and there's a guy in a car
Speaker 1: with this this scarping peanut butter is speeding along. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then there's a police been standing at the bloody
Speaker 1: rackage and he reached it in there and taste it
Speaker 1: and it's like, wow, this is awesome bank bang yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: where was I no idea? Yeah, but it may have
Speaker 1: been seen actually in n A Navy diver named Dean
Speaker 1: has was diving about forty nautical miles northeast of Cape Charles. Uh.
Speaker 1: And this was actually during the search for the scorpion,
Speaker 1: which I've mentioned. So Cape Charles for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: if you know what the Chesapeake Bay is, you can
Speaker 1: google that, which in Baltimore is on the Chesapeake Bay
Speaker 1: way up in the north end of the bay, and
Speaker 1: there's this long peninsula that's part Maryland, part Delaware. The
Speaker 1: bay is kind of V shaped and yeah, yeah, but anyway,
Speaker 1: this this peninsula is called del Marva. And because my
Speaker 1: brother used to live in Maryland, so he took a
Speaker 1: little tour of del Marva. It's kind of interesting actually.
Speaker 1: But anyway, at the very very tip of that peninsula,
Speaker 1: just northeast of Norfolk, Virginia, that is Cape Charles. So
Speaker 1: and so it was forty miles northeast. So they missed
Speaker 1: their target by a little bit. We're about to talk about,
Speaker 1: is right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, if it was indeed the cyclops.
Speaker 1: Back to our diver, Dean haws. He was diving at
Speaker 1: about a hundred and eighty feet of water. Uh, and
Speaker 1: he found this wreck of a really strange ship, and
Speaker 1: he went down and he actually wanted he stood on
Speaker 1: the bow of the ship and looked at it. The
Speaker 1: bridge of the ship was raised up on steel stilts,
Speaker 1: and it had this strange superstructure which was described in
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventie newspaper are Nicle as quote upright beams
Speaker 1: running its length, resembling the skeleton of a skyscraper unquote,
Speaker 1: which really any of you have looked at the picture
Speaker 1: of the Cyclops, I didn't, by the way, talk about
Speaker 1: how weird the cyclops looked falling down on the job here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we kind of are, yeah, because it didn't look real weird.
Speaker 1: I did. And if you got the cyc of our
Speaker 1: website or whatever you see in the pictures, so you
Speaker 1: know how weird it looks, but or looked, well, let's
Speaker 1: give it to Let's give him that in a sack. Okay,
Speaker 1: I finish about this diper guy though, Well, yeah, so
Speaker 1: Dean Hollis didn't know what he was looking at at
Speaker 1: the time, but like some years later, like five years
Speaker 1: later or something like that, he read an article about
Speaker 1: it in a magazine and there was a picture of
Speaker 1: the Cyclops in there. When he saw the picture, he
Speaker 1: was like, oh, wow, that's the boat or that's the
Speaker 1: ship I guess that I saw in the Atlantic, and uh.
Speaker 1: So he went to the Navy with his suspicions and
Speaker 1: eventually in nineteen seventy three convinced him to reopen the
Speaker 1: search and they did do some searching, but they didn't
Speaker 1: find the wreckage, so oh sorry, but yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: And he eventually teamed up with Clive Cussler. I think
Speaker 1: this is three one. And didn't you know who Clive Cussler? Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you don't know who Clive Cussler is, he writes
Speaker 1: the sort of adventure, kind of pulpy novels. He's one
Speaker 1: of He had a recurring character named dirt Pit. I
Speaker 1: love that name, dirt Pit. Uh. And I've read actually
Speaker 1: two of his books, and actually I thought that they
Speaker 1: were even though they were pretty absurd, they were actually fun.
Speaker 1: You know. I see why he's been writing for as
Speaker 1: long as he's been writing. Yeah, I see why he's
Speaker 1: I see why he's got a best selling fan base
Speaker 1: because his stuff is fun. Yeah, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: authors out there like that. Yeah yeah, yeah, so it's yeah,
Speaker 1: totally unbelievable, but still a lot of fun. So yeah
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, also a murders like great beat reads. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but anyway, we never do we never explain the structure
Speaker 1: of the ship. Just let me finished up with with
Speaker 1: then't realize we're done. Sorry. Clive Cussler, besides writing this stuff,
Speaker 1: he is really interested in a lot of his stuff
Speaker 1: is sort of ocean based and and he's really interested
Speaker 1: in finding Rex. And he actually he actually found the Huntley,
Speaker 1: which do you guys know what the Hundley is, right,
Speaker 1: doesn't ring a bell? The Hunley was a submarine built
Speaker 1: by the Confederacy. Oh yes, yeah, do you remember this one? Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: so yeah it was it was most notably that the
Speaker 1: most thing was good at killing was its own crew.
Speaker 1: Because but but the Hunley was basically the first, uh
Speaker 1: or at least one of the first submarines. And it
Speaker 1: really was just a ship with a structure built around
Speaker 1: the top of it that sank a couple of you're
Speaker 1: thinking about you're thinking about like the Monitor or the Merrimack. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that the Hunley was a little different it was actually
Speaker 1: cylindrical with tapered ends and tell us like a folded
Speaker 1: piece of paper. Yeah, and it's like uh, and it
Speaker 1: had I can't remember how many crew I think half
Speaker 1: of does. And and basically they sat inside this tube
Speaker 1: and just cranked, uh these cranks to turn the screw.
Speaker 1: And then at the front of it, oh yeah, and
Speaker 1: at the front of it there was the torpedo. The
Speaker 1: torpedo turned out was not a great design because it
Speaker 1: was a long pole with a big, big powder charge,
Speaker 1: black powder charge on the end of it. And so
Speaker 1: they would go run up to a ship and and
Speaker 1: ram the ship and the chart the charge would go off,
Speaker 1: and but then they would be stock to the ship
Speaker 1: and then we go down with the ship. So it
Speaker 1: didn't really work out that one. And it was I
Speaker 1: mean there's pictures right where it's like a dude standing
Speaker 1: next to it, you know, and it's it's smaller than
Speaker 1: he is. It's not a huge a very small vessel, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I would I couldn't even get into something like that,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I would call the claustrophobia would
Speaker 1: overwhelm me that, you know, and much less go underwater. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no way. But anyway, that's so he found that. He
Speaker 1: helped find that, Yeah, he did. He was part of
Speaker 1: the effort to find that, which is pretty cool. Now
Speaker 1: do we want to talk about the ship? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: let's let's get back to talking about the ship. So
Speaker 1: it's you facilitate loading coal on other ships. They had
Speaker 1: this superstructure that was basically a lot of it was
Speaker 1: kind of like a box, like a skeleton ice box
Speaker 1: that were like vertical vertical steel posts on either side
Speaker 1: and then cross members, and then they had these cranes
Speaker 1: that could they could either move it by bags of
Speaker 1: coal or else they could scoop coal out and dump
Speaker 1: it into the holds of other ships with these with
Speaker 1: these cranes. And so they had like a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of cranes on this thing. So it was this the
Speaker 1: this was I know that the Cyclops was a colier.
Speaker 1: Was this it's Was this the standard design or was
Speaker 1: this a kind of a new design. I don't know
Speaker 1: enough about this loading of vessel steaming to guess. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I to tell you that I don't know how
Speaker 1: many colliers were built with this particular design, just the
Speaker 1: class of four I know, Well that's I knew that much.
Speaker 1: But I'd never I'd never heard of anything that was
Speaker 1: this way. So that's why I was wondering if it
Speaker 1: was unique. The class was unique that way. I don't
Speaker 1: know how unique this class was, to be honest with
Speaker 1: something I should have checked on. Actually it's hard to say. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's got a whole bunch of upright. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: got this whole big superstructure. Yeah, this whole big, huge
Speaker 1: superstructure that's like like a friend, like the framework of
Speaker 1: a building almost, And then they've got all these cranes
Speaker 1: and stuff to to move cold back and forth. And
Speaker 1: actually that's considered. Well, we'll talk about that later, I guess, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to get too far ahead.
Speaker 1: I just knew we needed to explain that, and we
Speaker 1: screwed up and didn't. Yeah, I did mention the course,
Speaker 1: said the guy named Donald Fraser did find what looked
Speaker 1: like the wreckage of a lifeboat from the USS cyclo.
Speaker 1: Has nothing to do with ours, But that's it. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's possible if this guy was telling the truth. But
Speaker 1: he also said that he out of the suck on
Speaker 1: the hull of the ship about two thousand yards away
Speaker 1: and this was in uh, this was a gun key
Speaker 1: in the Bahamas. Yeah. Yeah, and so the second all
Speaker 1: of the ship about two thousand yards off of the key.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure what to make of this because
Speaker 1: this would be way far off of the cyclops. Is cool? Then,
Speaker 1: and I was gonna ask, did he spot this ship
Speaker 1: below or above water? Under the water? Was he above
Speaker 1: or below water when he spotted it? He was above
Speaker 1: he was in a boat. Yeah, So I'm not sure
Speaker 1: what to make of that. I would imagine that it
Speaker 1: would have been spotted again since then if he well yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, it's not there now, it would have been.
Speaker 1: It would have had to have been in pretty shallow
Speaker 1: water for him to spot it. Yeah, that's why I
Speaker 1: was asking. Yeah, and you know, if he was diving,
Speaker 1: I could see where he could have made a significant
Speaker 1: depth and that's why nobody had noticed it. Yeah, and apparently,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, they went back. When they went back and looked,
Speaker 1: I don't know if the Navy went back and looked
Speaker 1: at whoever did, but it wasn't there anymore. And I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: ship for X don't just move right, No, not really, no,
Speaker 1: they don't. Yeah, there they go and they plucked themselves
Speaker 1: down to the sand, and they're pretty much they're roots.
Speaker 1: Something pretty enormous to uproot those things and move them.
Speaker 1: This this was in the twenties, right, this is in February.
Speaker 1: It's going to say most of the k's or keys,
Speaker 1: depending on what if you're in the Bahamas or are
Speaker 1: the United States, are now owned by cruise ships, by
Speaker 1: cruise liners. They're all owned private. Yeah. Most of those
Speaker 1: caves are the ones in between, like the main islands
Speaker 1: of the Bahamas and Miami, because they're good stop points
Speaker 1: on the way back. So yeah, and you know, looking
Speaker 1: up gun K, it looks like it's it's probably owned
Speaker 1: by it looks like it's be one of those islands
Speaker 1: that's probably owned by something else. But in the nineteen
Speaker 1: twenties it probably wasn't. But you know, I was going
Speaker 1: to say, if it was more recent, that seems like
Speaker 1: this is a thing that a cruise ship company would
Speaker 1: haul away pretty quick. It's definitely not. Yeah, so never mind.
Speaker 1: My point is moot, Okay, where were we? So that's
Speaker 1: about the end of the story. Really. Now it's time
Speaker 1: for the theories. Yeah, Okay, these are all theories which
Speaker 1: have been floated, either at the time or since there's
Speaker 1: quite a few of the Yeah, there really is, Okay.
Speaker 1: Our first theory is that it was an octopod um
Speaker 1: Doctor whom you're familiar with, Yeah, I know. He discovered
Speaker 1: that the cyclops have been attacked by an octopod whose
Speaker 1: spacecraft had crashed in the BERMDA triangle. Was this was
Speaker 1: the one? Wasn't this the one? That was the that
Speaker 1: was the pirate ship one? There? There have been a
Speaker 1: ton of nautical ones nautes, And I am ashamed as
Speaker 1: a Hoovian to admit that I actually don't know what
Speaker 1: episode I was talking about. No, actually I don't know either.
Speaker 1: I just stumbled across this. But you also don't love
Speaker 1: Doctor Who. Like well, I love Doctor Who. I just
Speaker 1: haven't watched it nearly as comprehensively as you have. But
Speaker 1: I still like Doctor Who. It's awesome. But I got
Speaker 1: to get back into watching Doctor Who. I Well, you
Speaker 1: picked the wrong time, but really, I know because of Netflix.
Speaker 1: I mean, either Doctor Who wouldn't lie about it, but
Speaker 1: turned out. I don't know if you guys know this
Speaker 1: or not. I know this blasphem, but Doctor Who's not real?
Speaker 1: What don't tell anyone. Can you hear them yelling at us,
Speaker 1: what's the next one. We're gonna be responsible for a
Speaker 1: lot of broken eye? Yeah, alright, well I was going
Speaker 1: to say the mystery is solved because doctor who's never wrong. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me let me go to the next one. Somebody
Speaker 1: actually put out an account claiming this is true. A
Speaker 1: giant octopus. You know, at the time that this happened,
Speaker 1: giant octopuses were responsible for everything. On the flip side.
Speaker 1: There are such a thing as giant octopus. There are,
Speaker 1: But every ship that went down was taken down by
Speaker 1: a iron octopus who was angry for some reason. And actually,
Speaker 1: and by the way, although giant occupied do exist, I
Speaker 1: don't know that there's anything that could take down this ship. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: just by grabbing it and sing. I don't know. If
Speaker 1: it was severely overburdened already, probably wouldn't take all, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and just down over Yeah, everybody who's not in the studio,
Speaker 1: devon just mimicked the sucker motion of an I made
Speaker 1: the noise something and pulling it. They didn't see what
Speaker 1: was happening. They don't know. The octopus probably didn't actually
Speaker 1: even care if he sunk the ship or not. He
Speaker 1: probably just wanted to turn it upside down and shake
Speaker 1: it so all the goodies would fall out it into Yeah.
Speaker 1: But anyway, this this did appear in a magazine called
Speaker 1: Literary Digest. Yeah, alright, why not? Next theory? It was
Speaker 1: the Bermuter Triangle. Now you don't like that, okay, actually
Speaker 1: talking about that, I wasn't. I was actually heavily investigating
Speaker 1: the thing and until I got a threatening note from
Speaker 1: the Bermuda Triangle. And I was just gonna say that
Speaker 1: it cracks me up all of the coverage of the
Speaker 1: Permiuter Triangle gets when A it's actually not a defined space,
Speaker 1: and B it is just a clever use of statistics.
Speaker 1: You're the one shut up. It's a real thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: God damn it, I thought seen. I have seen maps
Speaker 1: of the Bermter Triangle. Dude, the triangle, the real thing.
Speaker 1: It just cracks me up that all of the reported
Speaker 1: sinkings and downings, and yet the number of things that
Speaker 1: go through that area are never talked about. So the
Speaker 1: bath comes out to not that amazing. No, No, it's
Speaker 1: a pretty it's a high traffic area, there's no doubt
Speaker 1: about us. I think of all the cruise ships that
Speaker 1: are running on the power chords, how do they at
Speaker 1: those tangled up? What? Listen? It's very complex. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the system of boys. I can't I can't explain
Speaker 1: it to you as it's very classified. Okay, Okay, my
Speaker 1: memory I think was wiped. Probably, I'm not totally sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't remember that nine months of my life for
Speaker 1: a long What else is up here? Oh? What are
Speaker 1: we looking at? For? Nothing? In gas pockets? And this
Speaker 1: series has been floated for a while now, but apparently
Speaker 1: there are big pockets of mehing gas in the seafloor.
Speaker 1: So about this in a different episode? Didn't we I
Speaker 1: think we did, but I can't remember which one, can't
Speaker 1: um it would have been, yeah, the one I think
Speaker 1: it was the Ring mcdan, yeah, which obviously wasn't right,
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah, okay, could stay more things.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, y uh yeah. Anyway, So if you just
Speaker 1: happened to be sailing over that exact patch of water,
Speaker 1: well it's kind of bad luck for you. Apparently the
Speaker 1: density of the water drops so much that your ship
Speaker 1: loses buoyancy and you just dropped like a rock and
Speaker 1: down you go. And this has actually been confirmed and tests.
Speaker 1: Some researchers actually built or required a large ship model,
Speaker 1: put it in the tank, released a bunch of methane
Speaker 1: underneath it, and it did go down. What changes the
Speaker 1: displacement is when it changes, well, it changes that the
Speaker 1: buoyancy or it exeums me the density of the water
Speaker 1: becomes so much less that essentially you don't have enough
Speaker 1: buoyancy been much wider to keep afloat. So the theory
Speaker 1: that that it could sink a ship has been proven.
Speaker 1: But has the theory that methane bubbles of this size
Speaker 1: actually exists interrupt in the sea frequently? Has that been?
Speaker 1: That has never been established. Nobody's you know, nobody has
Speaker 1: ever actually recorded any actually incidents of the wait is
Speaker 1: the theory, like, Okay, the methane gas bubbles burst in
Speaker 1: the ocean, presumably, but we don't have any records of
Speaker 1: it because well, guess what if we did have a
Speaker 1: record of it, that ship wouldn't have sung can. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it probably happens on a frequent basis, but they're not
Speaker 1: large enough. That's that's the thing here. It's all in
Speaker 1: the size, not the matter that it's happening. Or when
Speaker 1: it's happening, but it's in the concentration. You wouldn't have
Speaker 1: to be that. But I mean, you know, really all
Speaker 1: you need is a small a smallish pocket when something,
Speaker 1: you know, something that's a fourth of the size of
Speaker 1: your ship. If your ship is overburdened already, the front
Speaker 1: of it loses buoyancy, you're probably going to go taking
Speaker 1: on water. Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. So it wouldn't
Speaker 1: have to be that it was as large as the ship, right,
Speaker 1: but that's still a huge pockets. That would be a
Speaker 1: lot of that thing to be suddenly burping up from
Speaker 1: the seafloor. Yeah. Going back and forth on this, I
Speaker 1: kind of like the idea that those like, not only
Speaker 1: are are you losing buoyancy with somebody on the bridge
Speaker 1: and it's just lighting a cigarette at that exact yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, but quite quickly. So yeah, so you burn
Speaker 1: in sinc. Yeah, someone's like smelling around like who farted? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and why are we thinking gross? Yeah, that's what methane is. Uh.
Speaker 1: But that's so that's a good theory, but it is
Speaker 1: it's partially proven, right, then it could happen. But also
Speaker 1: we don't think that methane probably is probably not. It's
Speaker 1: like it's been proven in theoria that could happen. But again,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't appear to have ever actually happened in
Speaker 1: your life. But who knows. I mean, but we wouldn't
Speaker 1: have proof of it, would not proof Yeah, because this
Speaker 1: ship just disappeared. Ye yeah, although generally speaking when ships,
Speaker 1: when ships go down, it's usually because of things like
Speaker 1: bad luck, bad weather, human air more things like that.
Speaker 1: Especially Yeah. Yeah, alright, the next our next theory. I've
Speaker 1: seen this one out there and the series that the
Speaker 1: manganese or in the hold was unstable and it exploded. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: according to my research, maganese manganese is actually pretty stable.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And so I don't know what that. I
Speaker 1: don't know who the hell came up with this one. Okay,
Speaker 1: so what do you guys have any thoughts on that? Yeah? Okay,
Speaker 1: now this page of theories ahead of us. No, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's better ones out there. If we needed to pad
Speaker 1: this episode, I'm could. I just didn't want to cheat
Speaker 1: our listeners. I want to I found every last possible
Speaker 1: and people people put forth a lot of theories about this.
Speaker 1: They really have our next one a boiler explosion took
Speaker 1: out the radio room and set the ship on fire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: except the boilers would have been in the back of
Speaker 1: the ship near the stern, and I can't imagine why
Speaker 1: the radio room would have been back in the stern
Speaker 1: of the ship then not up near the bridge or
Speaker 1: even next to the bridge. So I in a way,
Speaker 1: I could see there being some viability to this theory,
Speaker 1: though I don't see it working on its own. There's
Speaker 1: some stuff that we're going to talk about a little
Speaker 1: farther along that I think could have happened in conjunction
Speaker 1: or exasperated the problem if the boiler had gone. You
Speaker 1: might need me to say exacerbated, Yeah, that word. If
Speaker 1: the boiler had gone and exploded and caused structural damage,
Speaker 1: that would have, you know, then just set off a
Speaker 1: chain reaction of problems. But I don't think that if
Speaker 1: it was in a ship that was in perfect health
Speaker 1: and the and a boiler had blown, now, I don't
Speaker 1: think that that's possible. Yeah. The thing about this this
Speaker 1: ship is too is that the Cyclops apparently reportedly had
Speaker 1: some problems. It did, but it was still a relatively
Speaker 1: young ship, and I don't think the boilers were. Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't think the boilers would have been the problem.
Speaker 1: I think the boilers were in perfectly good shape. It's
Speaker 1: also I mean, I guess it's also hard to tell
Speaker 1: where your satellites. But you know, looking at the ship,
Speaker 1: there's so much structure there. I can't tell all if
Speaker 1: even if the radio room was where the bridge was,
Speaker 1: because that would make sense, right if your antennas are
Speaker 1: maybe in the back or maybe part of the structures.
Speaker 1: If something in the back did explode, regardless of the
Speaker 1: health of the could you know without taking the radio
Speaker 1: room out. I don't think it's a good theory, but
Speaker 1: I just wanted to add that. So Joe just said
Speaker 1: something that that got me thinking, which is the ship
Speaker 1: was young enough that the boilers and I agreed wholeheartedly.
Speaker 1: Now I'm I'm second guessing that is this ship was
Speaker 1: young enough and should have been good enough condition, and
Speaker 1: yet it had an engine problem that was significant enough
Speaker 1: that that engine had to be shut down. So that
Speaker 1: could be you know, that could show a larger issue
Speaker 1: in terms of the entire propulsion system. So potentially the
Speaker 1: boiler could have not actually been in that greative condition.
Speaker 1: I guess for me, I'm inferring the condition of one
Speaker 1: thing based on an which is not right. Well, and
Speaker 1: I'm more willing to say, like an engine that's in
Speaker 1: the water and sucking a lot of stuff through it
Speaker 1: is way more likely to have something, you know, accidentally
Speaker 1: get pulled through it or get damaged and have that
Speaker 1: be an external damage that happened to it that was unfortunate,
Speaker 1: but that happens sometimes versus the boiler just being crappy
Speaker 1: and exploring. You know, you're not getting external stuff like
Speaker 1: if you accidentally, as macab as it is, suck a
Speaker 1: dolphin through your I think they have filters. I think
Speaker 1: they too, write But if you, I mean, you know
Speaker 1: that obviously, But if you or anything, I mean, you
Speaker 1: pull anything through, even a tin can, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: do we just go back and your corn that I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you have just set against I know. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a lot of upset people, you know.
Speaker 1: But so if you, I mean, if you pull anything,
Speaker 1: you know, the filter for some reason is failing, or
Speaker 1: even if it's just a tiny little thing, a tiny
Speaker 1: little rock, even pulled through something like that is enough
Speaker 1: to really buck it up. And I don't think it
Speaker 1: had caused an explosion. No, I don't think it cut
Speaker 1: But I'm saying like through an engine submerged, that makes
Speaker 1: more sense to me than you know, saying, well, it's
Speaker 1: a problem system wide. I'm just I what I was
Speaker 1: inferring was the health of one component is indicates the
Speaker 1: health of the entire system, and that is not a
Speaker 1: correct assumption, but that is just kind of where I went.
Speaker 1: It's a possibility. But yeah, that the cylinder head that
Speaker 1: was cracked, if that indeed was what it was, it's
Speaker 1: probably made by somebody else other than the boiler maker. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I don't like the boiler explosion series simply because I
Speaker 1: still think the crew, even if the radio that would
Speaker 1: have had time to deploy the lifeboats. So yeah, that's
Speaker 1: why I'm not buying this one. Or the very least
Speaker 1: degree would have been found. Yeah, that's for sure. If
Speaker 1: the ship exploded, yeah, there there would have been the
Speaker 1: would be stuff floating around. Probably. The next theory is
Speaker 1: that they were torpedo by German U boats, which was
Speaker 1: a very popular theory at the time, but there's no
Speaker 1: supporting evidence. They've gone back and looked. Yeah, after the war,
Speaker 1: they asked the German government, the Germans who Germans, by
Speaker 1: the way, they're very good at keeping records. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that kind of very good. After the Holocaust, that kind
Speaker 1: of got them in hot water actually, But yeah, and
Speaker 1: this is not a joke. Yeah, now it's not a joke.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean that certainly was got a lot
Speaker 1: of them strung up after the war. But anyway, back
Speaker 1: to that, they had no U boats in the area
Speaker 1: at the time of the disappearance, they said, and they
Speaker 1: had no record of sinking the cyclopes. And also again,
Speaker 1: when you torpedo ship, they usually don't just explode and
Speaker 1: and burst into flames. Usually it takes a little while
Speaker 1: to sink. Yeah, and somebody on the bridge probably sees
Speaker 1: that ship coming. Yeah, they don't see the shot coming.
Speaker 1: Let's say it's at night, it explode Rhodes and the
Speaker 1: ship takes a while to go down, Yeah, it should.
Speaker 1: It should. I mean unless it just broke the ship
Speaker 1: into and it just like the perfect None of this
Speaker 1: makes sense because nobody was there next our next srey mutiny.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah. Now, there was an article of Time magazine
Speaker 1: just last year, mark of last year. Yeah, we speculated
Speaker 1: that the disappearance might have been a quote botched mutiny unquote. Uh,
Speaker 1: the uncovered startling new evidence that Captain Wary was disliked
Speaker 1: by other officers goods and that attempted mutiny. But actually
Speaker 1: what they're doing, they're just quoting from that same telegram
Speaker 1: from David Livingston and Barbados, so that was talking about uh,
Speaker 1: and then they're going to explain that the mutiny caust
Speaker 1: of disappearance by well, actually they don't. That was a
Speaker 1: pretty crappy little article. Uh. Yeah, it's like they say
Speaker 1: it might have been a botched mutiny and that they
Speaker 1: don't explain the exactly how so I think we can
Speaker 1: dismiss this one. You know, I do for entertaining reading,
Speaker 1: I would recommend that people go look up the records
Speaker 1: on Worsley because there it's pretty funny some of the
Speaker 1: things that he says. And it's funny because of the
Speaker 1: time the language is different. So alcohol for medicinal reasons,
Speaker 1: but then accusing people of being sex maniacs and so
Speaker 1: it's it's really an entertaining read. Yeah, actually it is.
Speaker 1: And yeah, when he was accused of all this stuff,
Speaker 1: he made some counter accusations. Yeah, it's it's and who
Speaker 1: knows who's right. I mean maybe maybe Worsley has been defamed.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah he could have been, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, alright, so we got that so much from Utty.
Speaker 1: Let's move on to our next one. And this was
Speaker 1: this was a big one at the time. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would believe that, Yeah, this is treason that that did.
Speaker 1: I mention earlier that Captain Worley was suspected of having
Speaker 1: pro German sympathies. Well, you had talked about that. We
Speaker 1: didn't that his name wasn't originally that, but then that
Speaker 1: was all gave people. Yeah, yeah, Worley as far as
Speaker 1: a navy and you had been born in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: But it turns out that he didn't was born in
Speaker 1: San Francisco. He jumped ship from a German ship in
Speaker 1: San Francisco. Yeah, it turns out Worley was actually born
Speaker 1: Johann Vikmon in Germany, and he jumped ship in San
Speaker 1: Francisco in eighteen seventy eight, and he illegally entered the
Speaker 1: US and e actually sometime after that changed his name
Speaker 1: and eventually became like a ship's master or whatever you
Speaker 1: would call it, and captained a lot of ships and doing,
Speaker 1: you know, more or less cargo for the far East
Speaker 1: to the US then jumping ship. Yeah, I believe it
Speaker 1: was so. Yeah, I think he was quite a young
Speaker 1: man when he did it. Then, well, he was born
Speaker 1: I think I have heard in eighteen sixty two, so
Speaker 1: at the time of the sinking of the Cyclopes, and
Speaker 1: he would have been in his mid fifties. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: but he would have jumped ship. Yeah, that happens, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he would. He turned out to be a German. They
Speaker 1: found this out after the after the vote went missing,
Speaker 1: and one of the passengers who joined at the last
Speaker 1: minute was Alfred gut Schalk, who was the U S
Speaker 1: Council General in Brazil at that time. But he uh
Speaker 1: supposedly quit his job and said that he wanted to
Speaker 1: go back to the States and enlist to go fight
Speaker 1: the Germans, although other people said that he was very
Speaker 1: pro German, and also it was suspected there were a
Speaker 1: lot of other German sympathizers in the crew. David Livingston,
Speaker 1: again the Council General in Barbados and it sent his
Speaker 1: telegram to the State Department said quote have names of crew,
Speaker 1: but not of all the officers and passengers. Many Germanic
Speaker 1: names appear while not having Yeah, while not having any
Speaker 1: definite grounds, I fear fate worse than sinking unquote. And
Speaker 1: of course I talked about his suspicions about about the
Speaker 1: extra stuff that he took on board in Barbadoes, and
Speaker 1: that would have and in fact, if they did intend
Speaker 1: to sail across the Atlantic to Germany and turned the
Speaker 1: Cyclope and its cargo over to the Germans, this would
Speaker 1: kind of explain the unscheduled stuff in Barbados to pick
Speaker 1: up the extra cold and the extra food and and everything.
Speaker 1: According to David Livingston's telegram, the Cyclops took on a
Speaker 1: ton of meat, a ton of flower, half a ton
Speaker 1: of vegetables, and so to him it looked like Worthy
Speaker 1: was planning extended cruise, Yeah, exactly. And he also took
Speaker 1: on another six hundred tons of coal, So that was
Speaker 1: livingston suspicion. And also I read this in an old,
Speaker 1: an old article in Popular Science that the Navy at
Speaker 1: some point got and this was before the end of
Speaker 1: the war, they got word from an Asian in Germany
Speaker 1: that he had seen the Cyclops in Kiel, Germany, so
Speaker 1: that that also feels suspicions uh, that they followed up
Speaker 1: on that. It turned out to be a German ship
Speaker 1: that just happened to be named Cyclops. It wasn't our Cyclops. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't our Cyclops. Uh. There was another room at
Speaker 1: the Navy got a letter from a pow Germany who
Speaker 1: said that he had talked to several members of the
Speaker 1: Cyclops crew in his pow camp in Germany. I'm kind
Speaker 1: of discounting that one. And so this could have happened,
Speaker 1: I mean it maybe, But the reason I don't really
Speaker 1: buy into this one, even though it was a very
Speaker 1: popular one at the time, it was seemed to me
Speaker 1: to be very foolhardy to try to cross the Atlantic
Speaker 1: with only one engine functioning. I would say more than
Speaker 1: fool hard Yeah. Yeah, that's a very gentle term. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And again there's no there was actually no reason to
Speaker 1: suspect either warlies, loyalties or got chalks. Loyalties were all
Speaker 1: the rest of those Germanic people that were in the crew.
Speaker 1: I think that the Cyclops would have been a much
Speaker 1: greater danger if they had sailed across, because they might
Speaker 1: have they might have run into a U boat and
Speaker 1: they would have been a juicy target. They would have
Speaker 1: had no way. U boats don't radio over. Are you
Speaker 1: a friendly? Yeah? They just shoot? Yeah. Well so Also,
Speaker 1: I mean if you look at if you look at
Speaker 1: the profile the cyclops, you know, they have these things
Speaker 1: called ship profile charts, you know, and and and the
Speaker 1: Germans look and they see, is there anything in the
Speaker 1: German navy that looks like that? Nope, Okay, kill them,
Speaker 1: And that's what they did. Also, cyclops had a really
Speaker 1: distinctive look, and it certainly would have been spotted in
Speaker 1: whatever port it wound up in unless the cruise thumb
Speaker 1: oh hell yeah. And of course the Germans would have
Speaker 1: had to kill everybody in the ship who wasn't pro German,
Speaker 1: since nobody ever turned up. Again, the records don't show this,
Speaker 1: although maybe they would have covered that up. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It probably is kind of important to point out that
Speaker 1: the Germans, the Germans of World War One, weren't quite
Speaker 1: like the Germans of World War Two. It's completely different mentality. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they I don't think they would have committed mass murder,
Speaker 1: you know, of civilians. Now, that wasn't that wasn't on
Speaker 1: the dock. And so I think we can discount that one.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's what happened. I think we need
Speaker 1: to discount the next one too, But go ahead and
Speaker 1: tell people, oh yeah, well this one has been floated
Speaker 1: also that there were German a German agent or agents
Speaker 1: on the ship and they committed sabotage. They basically wanted
Speaker 1: a bomb or numerous bombs. Yeah. Yeah, Steve has his
Speaker 1: notebook out, but I'm not sure if it's about this
Speaker 1: one or the next One's for the next one. Okay, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So anyway, so they plant time bombs, sabotage the radio,
Speaker 1: pop in a lifeboat and row away away and then
Speaker 1: the ship goes bluey and goes down. Yeah so yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think so either. Also, what do they do
Speaker 1: with the lifeboat? What do they do with the lifeboat?
Speaker 1: They got to some somewhere and then they sank it,
Speaker 1: burned it or maybe or maybe that was that that
Speaker 1: wreckage that that guy found on gun Key two years later.
Speaker 1: The cyclot paint trying to paint over the name, but
Speaker 1: they didn't have enough. Yeah, they left the extra can
Speaker 1: on the ship. Maybe yeah, yeah, what's next? R next
Speaker 1: one is actually a little more credible. Um. This essentially
Speaker 1: is that a combination of things bad weather, poorly loaded cargo,
Speaker 1: and just bad design caused the boat to roll over,
Speaker 1: take water, and just sink suddenly. Yeah, and that's the
Speaker 1: That was the U. S. Navy's official theory pretty recently
Speaker 1: after that and that, But although they have stressed that
Speaker 1: they don't really know. First of all, the Cyclops was overloaded.
Speaker 1: I believed that the cargo was not well trimmed, and
Speaker 1: that there was explained to people what you mean by
Speaker 1: well trimmed? Yah, welcome, Yeah, welcome. When a ship is
Speaker 1: out of trim, that means that well, in this case,
Speaker 1: stepping forward or back, left or right, exactly the ship
Speaker 1: is the centered balanced, Yeah, exactly balanced. It's the same
Speaker 1: thing by trim all his nautical terms. Yeah. One thing
Speaker 1: that people point to this, this is another thing that
Speaker 1: Worley gets a bad rap for, is he was known
Speaker 1: for being a jerk and locking up or confining to
Speaker 1: quarters the experienced mans retribution for some slight and putting
Speaker 1: the guy who wasn't very good at the job in
Speaker 1: his place. So there's you'll see people say that was
Speaker 1: directly at his his fault. But yeah, I've heard it
Speaker 1: both ways. I have heard like for example, the Wikipedia
Speaker 1: page on this particular thing claims that the guy who
Speaker 1: would have been in charge of supervising this, who was
Speaker 1: much more experienced and supervising the loading of the of
Speaker 1: the manganese coal, was gonna fined to quarters, and a
Speaker 1: much less experienced crew member was was actually supervising the loading.
Speaker 1: But then I heard from another very credible source that
Speaker 1: the Cyclops was loaded into the supervision of Captain Warley
Speaker 1: himself and also a guy from the Brazilian colding company
Speaker 1: named Manuel Pereira. I guess I'll just bring up quickly
Speaker 1: that just that just because you're the captain of a
Speaker 1: ship doesn't mean you know how it should be loaded, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that necessarily a pilot of
Speaker 1: a plane could look at a cargo hold and be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. The one thing I will point out about
Speaker 1: word is he had been doing this job long enough
Speaker 1: that you know that, like we talked about before, there
Speaker 1: was the the failed mutiny and I and all of
Speaker 1: those things had happened, and he had been brought under scrutiny,
Speaker 1: but he never got kicked out of his job for
Speaker 1: the very basic reason nobody else could fill his shoes.
Speaker 1: Nobody else knew how to pilot or I shouldn't a pilot,
Speaker 1: but captain this particular brand of beasts. But just because
Speaker 1: you know how to drive the thing doesn't mean you
Speaker 1: know how to load it. That's true, Just as I'm
Speaker 1: not going to disagree with that. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say either way because I've never had to load a cargo. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but it's that same thing, right. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if just because you can captain a thing,
Speaker 1: if it means you know what it would look like
Speaker 1: when it's loaded, right, So just if even if he
Speaker 1: did oversee the loading of it, doesn't necessarily mean it
Speaker 1: was loaded, right. Yeah, No, not necessarily no. But and again,
Speaker 1: most of his experience, and this guy named manage Mentoi
Speaker 1: of the Brazilian coal company, those guys were used to
Speaker 1: dealing with coal and that manganese, which is a completely
Speaker 1: different critter. Yeah, manganese is twice as dense as coal,
Speaker 1: and which means that you normally, if you feel with
Speaker 1: the whole of the cyclops the hold, uh, you're filling
Speaker 1: it all up. You're filling it all the way up
Speaker 1: with coal. And so cargo shifting is not a problem.
Speaker 1: But since you're only filling it up about halfway or
Speaker 1: maybe two thirds at the most, then the cargo has
Speaker 1: moved has room to move around. Is that this may
Speaker 1: be a silly question about coal, I assume is like
Speaker 1: bricks of coal. Well, it's like rocksna manganese. How's that transported?
Speaker 1: Also chunks yeah, chunks yeah, yeah, chunks of more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's it's not going to fill the entire space
Speaker 1: to the ability to shift, right, yeah, right. And actually
Speaker 1: also mentioned something else. The ship was top heavy because
Speaker 1: of the superstructure all all that whole framework and the
Speaker 1: crane and everything like that. That's a lot of weight
Speaker 1: really high up in the air. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, might
Speaker 1: expect in the Bahamas. I always this makes me if
Speaker 1: you're trying to understand what the problem is is have
Speaker 1: you ever seen the drinking bird, that silly little thing
Speaker 1: that people have on their desk, which is water on
Speaker 1: the bottom and then a tall long tube and then
Speaker 1: a weight on the top that but those on their
Speaker 1: desks anywhere? But yes, okay, that was that was ok
Speaker 1: I have one shut up. The point is that this
Speaker 1: the way this ship is with that weight only filling
Speaker 1: part of its hold is exactly like the drinking bird.
Speaker 1: If you tap the bottom, it's going to very easily
Speaker 1: roll because there's a ton of weight up high and
Speaker 1: a ton of weight up down low, but nothing in
Speaker 1: the middle to stabilize. Yeah, and it's just nobody knows
Speaker 1: exactly how well they did. Well they did they? And
Speaker 1: I've got a quote here. If I was gonna this
Speaker 1: guy named Alfred P. Wrack R E c K about
Speaker 1: the wreck. Does he write about undersea Rex? Yeah? Well
Speaker 1: he wrote about this rack. Yeah. He wrote this long
Speaker 1: article in the June nine issue of Popular Science called
Speaker 1: Strangest American c Mystery has Solved at last, longest article
Speaker 1: title ever in Popular Science. Yeah. Now, so he actually
Speaker 1: got access to Navy documents from the investigation. Uh. And
Speaker 1: he quotes from one report quote ten thousand, eight hundred
Speaker 1: thirty five tons of manganese stowed direct on wood, dunnage
Speaker 1: and bottom of hold. Reports differ as to whether cargo
Speaker 1: was trimmed level or left somewhat higher in the middle
Speaker 1: inclined to ladder belief. Vessel also had four thousand tons
Speaker 1: of water, mostly in double bottom. So far as ascertaining
Speaker 1: those steps taken to prevent increasing of metacentric height governing
Speaker 1: top heaviness, and this must have been considerably increased. That's
Speaker 1: not a good way to load that. Yeah, no, if
Speaker 1: they that the big question. He basically saying the weight
Speaker 1: was put at almost the waterline so that it would
Speaker 1: make the center of the ship the pivot point. Is
Speaker 1: that what that says? Well, I think I think what
Speaker 1: he's saying is that the is that by piling it
Speaker 1: high in the center, because if you do just stump
Speaker 1: it in there and you don't spread it around, then
Speaker 1: and you've gotta and you've gotta higher in the middle.
Speaker 1: So it's an that that raises your center of gravity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think increase also the possibility of cargo shifting
Speaker 1: because well, and it's unsecured, right, we're saying basically in
Speaker 1: my image, right, they have this big old hold that's
Speaker 1: just like a big with a pile of raa in it,
Speaker 1: and they're like, that's fine, whatever, that's cool. And you know,
Speaker 1: if it were full and you would have your canvas
Speaker 1: over it or whatever, if it were coal, right, it's
Speaker 1: not going to shift around really that you're fine. But
Speaker 1: if it's only half full, Yeah, you said that, whatever
Speaker 1: we throw the canvas over it. You hit a wave,
Speaker 1: most of it goes fly in one way or the other.
Speaker 1: You're you're out of luck like that. It's a really
Speaker 1: bad news, especially if you're top heavy. Yeah, because you're
Speaker 1: just going to keep going. It kind of depends too.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's such a thing as rogue waves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you hit a rogue wave, if you have a
Speaker 1: rogue wave hits it broadside. Um. And also again, the
Speaker 1: other thing we don't know is what kind of shape
Speaker 1: there they're functioning engine was in. I mean it could
Speaker 1: have quit. And if you're in a storm with heavy
Speaker 1: seas and suddenly you've got no power, you're really screwed.
Speaker 1: Even if you only have half power, Even if you
Speaker 1: only have power on one side, that's true, it would
Speaker 1: be hard. Rogue wave hits you on the other side
Speaker 1: and all your cargo goes. Let's talk about the storms,
Speaker 1: because I've heard conjecture that there was and was not
Speaker 1: storms during their time. So what what is the official
Speaker 1: the official prognancy? It was there storms? Yeah, that was
Speaker 1: that was a storm. There was that was most definitely
Speaker 1: a storm. I think that one of the guys that
Speaker 1: has put out this idea that there was it was
Speaker 1: all a calm and sunny and nice. Is this guy
Speaker 1: whose name eludes me and besides which I don't want
Speaker 1: to give him publicity anyone, but he was promoting the
Speaker 1: whole Bermuda triangle and scary stuff. Okay, I'm fine with
Speaker 1: ignoring nothing. Yeah. So he's all like it was calm
Speaker 1: and sunny, but no, that it was. It's well documented
Speaker 1: that storm warnings went out late on March ninth, nineteen eighteen,
Speaker 1: March tenth. The winds were the winds got up to
Speaker 1: like sixty miles an hour as well as were huge
Speaker 1: reported again by that molasses tanker that we were talking about,
Speaker 1: the mulco Um. They passed through the same storm, and
Speaker 1: the captain himself said that he was certain that that
Speaker 1: storm sank the Cyclops. He his his boat, of student say,
Speaker 1: his boat is ship, the Amalico suffered a hundred fifty
Speaker 1: dollars in damage from the storm. And uh and again
Speaker 1: this is nineteen eighteen, so that's real money. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know it's chump changed today, but it's real money. That's
Speaker 1: real money back in those days. Yeah, so I was
Speaker 1: the storm. Let's talk about the storm angle here for
Speaker 1: a second. So One of the things that I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about with the storm is for ships that
Speaker 1: are this big and and larger. I started doing some
Speaker 1: research on cargo container ships, and I've heard about this,
Speaker 1: but for the life of me, I couldn't find the
Speaker 1: name of the ship or the suit that was involved
Speaker 1: with it. But the common perception and understanding of how
Speaker 1: to deal in a large ship in a big storm
Speaker 1: is to stay in the trough You don't want to be,
Speaker 1: you know, running up and down the peak of waves.
Speaker 1: You want to try and stay in the troughs as
Speaker 1: much as possible. It's kind of hard to do that.
Speaker 1: It is hard to do that, but there's you know,
Speaker 1: to a degree it prevents, you know, a cargo container ships.
Speaker 1: They're super crazy tall and they don't want to roll around,
Speaker 1: and so there's ways to go about that, and there
Speaker 1: was this common perception of the best way to do it.
Speaker 1: And this was I think five or ten years ago.
Speaker 1: A ship went down in insurance company was like, no,
Speaker 1: we're not paying out your claim. Your guys obviously didn't
Speaker 1: do what they were supposed to. So they got some
Speaker 1: very smart people involved who started figuring it out. And
Speaker 1: what they determined actually happened is if the winds are
Speaker 1: at the right speed and the waves are actually the
Speaker 1: right duration apart, the common way to approach of trying
Speaker 1: to stay in the trough doesn't work. Instead, it creates
Speaker 1: this this frequency of role which very quickly escalates and
Speaker 1: will roll a ship over. So it's a thing that
Speaker 1: you know, everybody on board is not aware of. It
Speaker 1: just it just a little bit, a little bit, and
Speaker 1: then it just builds and accelerates and we'll roll the
Speaker 1: ship this phenomenon. And so that's why I wonder where
Speaker 1: the ship that's as top heavy as the cyclops in
Speaker 1: a sea where they're like, oh, well, no, it's but
Speaker 1: we definitely don't want to be rolling over the top
Speaker 1: of that big wave and back down the next one.
Speaker 1: Let's try and stay in between them. They could have
Speaker 1: got themselves into a scenario where that that frequency would
Speaker 1: have happened and would have rolled the whole thing, which
Speaker 1: would then would explain everything's okay, everything's okay, we're on
Speaker 1: the side and we're under From my time on a
Speaker 1: cruise ship, uh, in my nautical experience, no one of
Speaker 1: the things they treating about is like, if you're in
Speaker 1: enough seas if you start taking on water, you're s
Speaker 1: o l an inch of water is what they always
Speaker 1: told us, And this could be totally wrong, but all
Speaker 1: it takes is an inch of water on your like
Speaker 1: middle deck, and as soon as that starts hitting it's
Speaker 1: it's gonna increase it so much. So they always said
Speaker 1: to us, Yeah, the most effective way to survive a
Speaker 1: storm is to drive around it. Storm. You run away
Speaker 1: as fast as you can. Oh yeah, no, I'm a coward.
Speaker 1: You run away every time, literally do. But you just go,
Speaker 1: you know, you you try to hit as far as
Speaker 1: the edges you can and then you just kind of
Speaker 1: just try to ride it out and but if you can't. Right.
Speaker 1: But the other thing that I will say is that
Speaker 1: from where they were going, especially since they were and
Speaker 1: they were in the Palma's right, it was documented they
Speaker 1: were they were in Barbados. But Barbados, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not like wildly open seas out there, you know,
Speaker 1: Like it's one thing if you're doing an Atlantic crossing
Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, we're screwed. There's this huge storm.
Speaker 1: We're going to ride the trough and just hope for
Speaker 1: the best. But it's there another to be going up
Speaker 1: the Atlantic coast like they were going up the coast. Actually,
Speaker 1: Barbados is actually just go straight up. He's almost directly
Speaker 1: south of Baltimore. It's almost I mean it's not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's but you don't necessarily, I mean, there are
Speaker 1: shipping lines like you don't you're not just like, but
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's a straight line here, so we're
Speaker 1: going to take that. You ride the currents. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure exactly, but I would I would guess it's
Speaker 1: not let's go all the way out to the open
Speaker 1: sea and they well they would have been pretty much
Speaker 1: out in the up and sea, but you know, they
Speaker 1: could have gone straight as an arrow. They probably sort
Speaker 1: of veered towards the coast. And when they weren't like
Speaker 1: hugging the coast. No no, no, I don't mean like
Speaker 1: right up on it. But if you're also not like,
Speaker 1: you know, seventy eight nine hundred miles out in the
Speaker 1: middle of the ocean where you can't go around things,
Speaker 1: you can't just drop anchor and try to write it
Speaker 1: out or whatever you do. But it is, it's it's
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's just like once you're
Speaker 1: out there, you're out there and you're done. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: could have very easily run around the storm. But I
Speaker 1: think and they may not have had the power to
Speaker 1: run around the store on a single engine. They may
Speaker 1: have looked at it and said all hell yeah. But
Speaker 1: as I'm saying, you know, if if an inch of
Speaker 1: water will make a difference, imagine what a half full
Speaker 1: hole of really dense material if it's swaying back and forth.
Speaker 1: I don't and the waves don't even have to be there. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: there was. Yeah, It's been said that if you get
Speaker 1: water into the hole and and and you get water
Speaker 1: in the hole, then apparently it makes the manganese much
Speaker 1: more slippery and it becomes a slurry you just slide
Speaker 1: back and forth, just turns into gel basically, not quite that,
Speaker 1: but essentially it'll be a lot more mobile than it
Speaker 1: would be if it was dry. Yeah. Okay, So the
Speaker 1: cargo shift, rogue wave, top heavy, all that stuff. That's
Speaker 1: that theory any more thoughts you guys? Yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean this is actually a viable theory. It's one
Speaker 1: of the more viable theories that I've seen. The road
Speaker 1: waves slash, cargo shift, Yeah yeah, yeah, Well and by
Speaker 1: the way, did we We didn't say what a road
Speaker 1: wave is. Yeah, road waves. It's like this, this wave
Speaker 1: that's kind of had a bad up gramming bread. It's
Speaker 1: uh yeah, exactly. Yeah. The rogues waver are just out
Speaker 1: of the blue, amally. Yeah. And they happen, they do,
Speaker 1: they do. Yeah. I mean, you know, if you're not
Speaker 1: expecting it and it suddenly washes over the deck of
Speaker 1: your ship, it's gonna cause a lot of problems. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And they do happen. And so especially in things like storms,
Speaker 1: you can get big waves. You gotta have a few
Speaker 1: that are extra big waves. Alright, But so much of
Speaker 1: that theory, I think it's a very strong possibility. And uh,
Speaker 1: but let's look at our last theory, which says that
Speaker 1: it was a design flaw in the ship itself, which
Speaker 1: has some good lakes to stand on. It kind of does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was uh, as I said earlier, the ships in
Speaker 1: the class, there were four of them. They all met
Speaker 1: a bad end. One of them, that Jupiter, was converted
Speaker 1: to an aircraft carrier and it became the Langley. It
Speaker 1: was the first aircraft carrier built by the U. S. Navy.
Speaker 1: It was damaged by a Japanese attack in World War
Speaker 1: two in nine two in the Pacific and it was
Speaker 1: scuttled by the crew and uh so there's no mystery there.
Speaker 1: But the other two Proteus and Nereus uh left St.
Speaker 1: Thomas virgin Islands in November and December one respectively, and
Speaker 1: they were both headed to Canada with loads of box
Speaker 1: side or and both of them vanished without a trace.
Speaker 1: Also also with this exactly like the Cyclops, they just vanished.
Speaker 1: But they're somehow not mysteries I'm seeing. I've seen the
Speaker 1: pattern there. Yeah, for some reason, the Cyclops, this is
Speaker 1: a big mystery. But interesting it because they had is
Speaker 1: it like a racist thing? Like it's because they had
Speaker 1: a German captain the Cyclops. It's probably that could be
Speaker 1: part of it. Um Now box eye. Box eye is
Speaker 1: used to make aluminum and it's not nearly as volatile
Speaker 1: under wet conditions as manganese. Is that correct? I have
Speaker 1: no idea, to be honest with him, Okay. I remember
Speaker 1: reading about box side just because it was weird and
Speaker 1: it related to last week's episode with Bob Marley because
Speaker 1: it's something that comes from Jamaica. But I didn't remember
Speaker 1: if there was the slurry effect with it. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure about. Yeah, but it has been
Speaker 1: suggested that maybe the cargo shift isn't the deal. And
Speaker 1: what it was is they all suffered catastrophic structural failure
Speaker 1: due to correl from cold dust. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you said you found a quote. Yeah, yeah, yeah, found
Speaker 1: a quote from a study called Corrosion and biled Steel
Speaker 1: by Coal and iron Ore, which is this quote. They
Speaker 1: pronounced increase in corrosion rate was observed at a moisture
Speaker 1: content between six and eight percent of the maximum water
Speaker 1: holding capacity for all samples. The corrosion rate was also
Speaker 1: observed to increase with decreasing particle sized distribution, meaning that
Speaker 1: the fight of the dust, the nasty of the corrosion,
Speaker 1: and uh, he's gonna find a lot of moisture and
Speaker 1: a lot of coal dust on the Cyclops and also
Speaker 1: on the proteus and nereus. Well, they were all called
Speaker 1: floating rust buckets. Yeah, and they weren't that old. I mean,
Speaker 1: they weren't that but yeah, a crewman that was on
Speaker 1: the cyclops, he was got off of it before they sank. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I said it was in terrible shape. I would also
Speaker 1: explain maybe why and engine yeah, you know at that
Speaker 1: point if something had corroded there. Yeah. Yeah. And there
Speaker 1: have been other instances of not just chips in this class,
Speaker 1: but are freighters snapping in two and these two these
Speaker 1: three boats were excuse me, ships were very long. And
Speaker 1: now how did the hold was in the middle? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and how did they seal the hole with canvas covered?
Speaker 1: So you know, obviously water got in there and mixed
Speaker 1: in with the cold dust and rusted the hell out
Speaker 1: of everything every time. Yeah. And so between this, between
Speaker 1: it being structurally compromised and going to really heavy seas
Speaker 1: in a storm, it's not hard to imagine it just
Speaker 1: snapped into yeah, absolutely, Yeah, and bam uh. I justn't
Speaker 1: something you really want to think about. If you've ever
Speaker 1: really been on any kind of ship. Didn't a new vehicle.
Speaker 1: I don't want to think about corrosion snapping. I don't either.
Speaker 1: That's why we don't do that with coal anymore, right,
Speaker 1: we don't power cars with coal anymore. Well, then it
Speaker 1: turned out, yes, yes, Stefan, that is exactly okay, cool,
Speaker 1: good reason. Yeah, By the way, cruise ships these days,
Speaker 1: they're not coal powered. I know, I told you they're electric.
Speaker 1: We plug them in, but they they have a ridiculously
Speaker 1: shallow draft. And I know they do this so they
Speaker 1: can get into harbors and stuff like that, but some
Speaker 1: of them do not. All yeah, well, and they're stabilizers
Speaker 1: and there's lots of technology. Oh because yeah, I was
Speaker 1: just I was just wondering about that. But no, I
Speaker 1: mean the bigger the ship that obviously the deeper. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the draft and the ones that make the cross atlantic
Speaker 1: journey have our way. But you know, most ships don't
Speaker 1: do that. Most of the cruise ships these days, they
Speaker 1: just kind of hug the coast and stop a lot
Speaker 1: of places, even the ones that it doesn't matter. I
Speaker 1: know our listeners like to listen to me talk about
Speaker 1: cruise ships sometimes, but I'm not going to go too
Speaker 1: far that interesting. I agree. Actually they need to like it.
Speaker 1: So one of these is we're gonna have one of
Speaker 1: those cruise ship junkets where you can you can take
Speaker 1: a cruise with the cast of Thinking Sideways podcast right
Speaker 1: for it'll be just Joe and Steve because it is
Speaker 1: not going back, not going back in there, man, alright, gon,
Speaker 1: We're gonna hire an actress to play devon as long
Speaker 1: as that scarlet Johnson, I'm okay with them. I'm all
Speaker 1: out of theory is unfortunately, I know you'd like to
Speaker 1: go on with us forever, and you guys have any
Speaker 1: more thoughts on this about breakings, I mean, because if
Speaker 1: you think about it, Okay, so we've got a slight,
Speaker 1: we've got a compromised structure into because of the coal
Speaker 1: dust and it's eroding everything. And if you're in heavy
Speaker 1: seas and the waves are far enough apart and they're rising,
Speaker 1: so the bow in the stern are being lifted, but
Speaker 1: the middle of the ship is no longer supported by
Speaker 1: as much water, that weight is gonna make it snap.
Speaker 1: I mean, if if, if suddenly the for sure the
Speaker 1: structure is weakend. Yeah, it's not good, but it probably
Speaker 1: it's much more likely. And again given that the two
Speaker 1: sister ships both disappeared equally as suddenly, Yeah, I don't know, radio, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Does it though, Like I mean, we
Speaker 1: were just talking about like the Titanic, right, it took
Speaker 1: it suffered a very catastrophic event until it took hours
Speaker 1: for that thing to think once it's snapped, though it
Speaker 1: didn't take hours Yeah, if it's snapped. If it's snapped
Speaker 1: into it went down really fast. And here's the deal.
Speaker 1: That's like a couple of minutes, a couple it's not
Speaker 1: as if a couple of seconds snap and it's not
Speaker 1: it's not a cartoon. It's not where it goes whoop
Speaker 1: bloop and goes straight down. It's gonna roll over on
Speaker 1: itself and the bridge is gonna go underwater. Yeah, therefore,
Speaker 1: no no radio content. Although if you see that rough,
Speaker 1: maybe you like the last contact with the cyclops, right,
Speaker 1: was like that good weather a good yeah right, I'm
Speaker 1: like the sort of thing if you hit rough seas
Speaker 1: you would say, like, hey, everybody out there in the
Speaker 1: radio world, just so you know, it's really rough out here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm not sure exactly what the rules
Speaker 1: were then. I mean it was it was because it
Speaker 1: was wartime, and so you didn't want to just be
Speaker 1: broadcasting willie nilly because you transmission. But if you're well
Speaker 1: that big, you probably do want to let even you
Speaker 1: even don't really want your enemies to be caught in
Speaker 1: something like that. And if you ship it out there,
Speaker 1: even they're gonna get screwed just as hard as you are.
Speaker 1: They're not going to torpedo you. You're They're going to
Speaker 1: be like, well, I guess we better survived this thing
Speaker 1: for a couple of minutes. Yeah, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: could be Remember like also radios weren't as reliable because
Speaker 1: and yeah, it might have been like in the case
Speaker 1: of Joida, that maybe they had had something out, like
Speaker 1: a Nintendo was down and they didn't even realize it
Speaker 1: and they're busy broadcasting and nothing is getting out. Possible. No,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of options here, and I I'm
Speaker 1: totally happy to agree with you that it probably was
Speaker 1: some porrible mixture of Rough Season Rust that yeah, I
Speaker 1: think so. Um, but it will be a great band name,
Speaker 1: by the way, Rough Season Rust. Yeah, that's already in
Speaker 1: my band name. Just trying to like girl band name. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the Cyclops was a huge deal back in the
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties. It was one of the one of those
Speaker 1: huge unsolved mysteries. It just captivated everybody's attention eventually because
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like the Titanic, it's too big
Speaker 1: to sink. Yeah, I know, and and uh, and then
Speaker 1: it sort of faded. But then along came this whole
Speaker 1: idea of that for me to try and go back
Speaker 1: in the nighteen twenties and ninteen tens, nobody knew about
Speaker 1: the Revater triangle. It didn't exist if nobody had invented
Speaker 1: the story exactly. So of course not yeah, and so interesting.
Speaker 1: The Cyclops got revived because of that, and uh, and
Speaker 1: so it's still with us today. I mean I I
Speaker 1: found articles from on the internet about it. People are
Speaker 1: still writing about it. But the Cyclops are the Permeter
Speaker 1: triangle about the Cyclops about the Bermeter triangle. Say, we're
Speaker 1: never going to get rid of that story triangle, Oh no, no,
Speaker 1: but but there, Yeah, they're still writing about it. And
Speaker 1: and the thing that really revived it was all this
Speaker 1: interested in the Bermeter triangle and and the Cyclops. You know,
Speaker 1: as far as we know, it wasn't even in the
Speaker 1: Bermuter triangle when it's sank. If indeed it sank, it
Speaker 1: might indeed have been transported to Germany or picked up
Speaker 1: by the Martians. It might have been in the Bermuda octagon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it might be on the vast oceans of Mars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it could be curiosity. Yeah, well, isn't it um platoon that,
Speaker 1: it turns out, is totally water under the surface. It's
Speaker 1: not Neptune. It is a moon. It's on the top
Speaker 1: and liquid underneath. Probably nice to know that we've got
Speaker 1: a fresh reserve of water if we use a all
Speaker 1: the water on Earth. Yeah, I remember that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But are we done? What's going on? That's it for
Speaker 1: the theories. Uh, you know, I think that one of
Speaker 1: these days the wreckage and the Cyclops will be found. Uh.
Speaker 1: And we have a pretty good idea where it is.
Speaker 1: Although that Joe you think, you don't think it's was
Speaker 1: as much of a rust bucket as they say it
Speaker 1: was when it went down to the point that it's
Speaker 1: let's just say it's snapped in half. That thing is
Speaker 1: our That steel is so compromised. I can't see it
Speaker 1: surviving another fifty years in salt water. Here. My heart
Speaker 1: will go on. Good job, I'm sure just like the Titanic,
Speaker 1: Just like the Titanic, we will find the Cyclops. We will,
Speaker 1: I think. So it's near or far wherever it is, Okay,
Speaker 1: I was I was gonna I was gonna give a
Speaker 1: like asc our listeners to start a Kickstarter campaign to
Speaker 1: raise funds so us to go because we have the
Speaker 1: latitude and longitude of where Dean Hass saw his wreck.
Speaker 1: Yeah you know what, No, no, no, we have to
Speaker 1: go further than that. We have to go to all
Speaker 1: of the different case and the bomb. I gotta go
Speaker 1: to Brazil. I'm saying whatever he thought, I don't care.
Speaker 1: We have to start the source. I think you're right.
Speaker 1: I think you all right. So you guys U, Yeah,
Speaker 1: raise some more funds. Yeah, addition, Yeah, that's to Brazil. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's an extra. It's an extra for like waxes and
Speaker 1: stuff like that in bating suits. We're a Harry bunch. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, thanks, Oh damn, Yeah, you're welcome. We
Speaker 1: can watch your head. What do you want to go for?
Speaker 1: You want to go for the doctor? You want to
Speaker 1: go for breaking in two? I think we gotta clean one.
Speaker 1: I'm breaking in two. So after breaking into Yeah, the doctor,
Speaker 1: the doctor. I always go with the doctor too. I
Speaker 1: think it rolled. Do you think it roll? You don't think?
Speaker 1: You don't think I've broken too. I think that it
Speaker 1: may have begun to break once it rolled, But I
Speaker 1: have a few I just feel like it rolled over alright. Well, second,
Speaker 1: my second theory after the doctor is breaking into Yeah,
Speaker 1: now I'm gonna go with the design flaw. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker 1: well we've obviously settled on an exact answer doctor yeah,
Speaker 1: the doctor. Ah yeah, so you're at doctor who half
Speaker 1: of this tom foolery. Um. So, folks, if you don't
Speaker 1: know where to find us and get your episodes, we
Speaker 1: are at Thinking Sideways podcast dot com where you can
Speaker 1: download episodes. Uh, and you can also leave comments and
Speaker 1: we'll have links out there, so we'll post some links
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Speaker 1: we are on the Gmail at Thinking Sideways Podcast at
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Speaker 1: how you find it, good luck. Uh. And lastly, we
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Speaker 1: sideways that if you want to support the show, and
Speaker 1: it's totally optional, of course, but if you want to
Speaker 1: pledge a certain amount, appreciate it. Who is participating? Thank
Speaker 1: you very much. Yeah, there's lots of people who have
Speaker 1: and really appreciate it. Because we do have expenses, believe
Speaker 1: it or not, and bribes must be paid. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: pay off Theodore Bundy, Yeah, pretty much, theater Bunday Chuppy
Speaker 1: has to be paid protection. How come? How come Choopy
Speaker 1: never made an appearance in this episode? Why is he
Speaker 1: not the culprit? He doesn't want to be anymore? Do
Speaker 1: you did you miss that meeting? Do you miss that email? Threat?
Speaker 1: Chuopy doesn't talk to me anymore? Chippy Chippy has an alibi. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Chippy Chuppy actually was in Europe scaring the pants off
Speaker 1: the natives at the times. Yeah, though he might have
Speaker 1: farmed the workout. You never know. I mean, there's no
Speaker 1: saying Chippy can't hire a sub contract. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're done. I guess we're done. Yeah, I'm glad we
Speaker 1: got to the bottom of this. This is a very
Speaker 1: solemn subject. I can't be laughing about it. Yeah, to
Speaker 1: lu be careful, what should you get on? Like we
Speaker 1: aren't we? In order to Caprio, I was like what
Speaker 1: it did for him