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Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My

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Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. In it's Saturday,

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Speaker 1: We're going into the vault. This episode originally aired on

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Speaker 1: March and it is the sequel to the one that

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Speaker 1: ran last Saturday. This is Jupiter the Destroyer, Part two.

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Speaker 1: Ready yourself, Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, production

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Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick,

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Speaker 1: and we're back with part two of our discussion of

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Speaker 1: Jupiter the Destroyer. In the last episode, we ended up

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Speaker 1: talking about some of the myths of Zeus and Jupiter,

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Speaker 1: Zeus's war against the Titans, and how that related to

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Speaker 1: some ideas in astrophysics about how an early forming Jupiter

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Speaker 1: in the solar nebula of our of our young Solar

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Speaker 1: system may have played a very important role in the

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Speaker 1: destruction of early forming super Earth's in the inner Solar System,

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Speaker 1: leading to or clearing the way for the eventual creation

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Speaker 1: of rocky planets like the Earth we live on today.

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Speaker 1: So that last episode was kind of it was kind

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Speaker 1: of a mash up we had we had some planetary science,

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Speaker 1: we had some mythology. It's like we had two turntables

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Speaker 1: and uh, and we had two different records and we

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Speaker 1: kind of mixed and mashed them both. Uh. So we're

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Speaker 1: we're kind of like your DJs. We well, we we're

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Speaker 1: your hosts, except no substitutes. Uh. And we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: more of the same in this episode. We're gonna have

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Speaker 1: plenty of planetary science, but we're also gonna have mythology.

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Speaker 1: So uh, if you love both, stay tuned, because you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get everything you love. If you lean more towards

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Speaker 1: one direction of the other, well it's still hang on

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Speaker 1: because we're gonna take you on a ride. But if

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Speaker 1: you're only interested in when we talk about the Texas

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Speaker 1: Chainsaw Massacre movies and stick around anyway because who knows

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Speaker 1: what will come up. Well that that movie also is

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Speaker 1: astronomical in its own wise, that's true. So maybe I

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Speaker 1: thought we should start just by doing a brief refresher

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Speaker 1: on one of the studies we talked about in the

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Speaker 1: last episode, because it kind of ties into some of

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Speaker 1: the stuff I'm going to talk about right after. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: one of the studies we looked at last time was

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Speaker 1: published in in p N A. S. And it was

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Speaker 1: by Constantine Batigan and Greg Laughlin, and it's called Jupiter's

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Speaker 1: Decisive Role in the Inner Solar System's early evolution. And

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Speaker 1: the rough outline is that the authors here argue that

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Speaker 1: they put together a simulation that assumes a version of

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Speaker 1: what's known as the Grand tax scenario, and that's where

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Speaker 1: in the early solar nebulas, So when the Solar system

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Speaker 1: is first forming, it's this big disc of gas and

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Speaker 1: dust all swirling around this newly forming Sun. When that's

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Speaker 1: going on, a young Jupiter migrated from somewhere around five

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Speaker 1: astronomical units out in radius from the Sun into about

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Speaker 1: one point five astronomical units and then reversed course and

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Speaker 1: went back out to a larger orbital radius when it

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Speaker 1: was pulled outward by the gravitational influence of Saturn. And

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Speaker 1: the authors here right quote, we proposed that the primordial

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Speaker 1: nebula driven process responsible for retention of Jupiter and Saturn

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Speaker 1: at large orbital radii and sculpting Mars low mass, is

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Speaker 1: also responsible for clearing out the Solar systems innermost region. So,

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Speaker 1: like we talked about last time, this would be wiping

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Speaker 1: out these early forming super Earth's or mini Neptunes that

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Speaker 1: were forming near the Sun and thus making room and

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Speaker 1: freeing up some materials for rocky planets like Earth and

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Speaker 1: Venus to form. And if you remember the details we

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Speaker 1: talked about last time, this would have happened according to

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Speaker 1: these authors here via a what they call a collisional cascade.

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Speaker 1: So Jupiter's inward migration would hurl all of these planetesimals

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Speaker 1: into um what they call mean motion resonances low order

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Speaker 1: mean motion residences, shepherd ng and exciting their orbits, so

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Speaker 1: basically just causing chaos in the inner Solar System where

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Speaker 1: things would smash into each other and then ultimately spiral

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Speaker 1: into the Sun and be vaporized down there in the

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Speaker 1: bottom of the Solar System. And then finally, they write,

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Speaker 1: in this scenario, the Solar systems terrestrial planets formed from

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Speaker 1: the gas starved mass depleted debris that remained after the

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Speaker 1: primary period of dynamical evolution. So under this scenario, it

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Speaker 1: is the gravitational influence from a coalescing Saturn that finally

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Speaker 1: pulls Jupiter back out of the fray back into the

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Speaker 1: outer Solar System. But I wanted to think about another

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Speaker 1: way that gas giants like Jupiter and Saturn, or like

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Speaker 1: if you imagine another solar system somewhere else in the galaxy,

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Speaker 1: multiple jupiters can interact with one another in catastrophic ways

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Speaker 1: that have major influence on the other planets in that

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Speaker 1: star system. Because going to the mythological analogy, one Zeus

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Speaker 1: or one Jupiter is bad enough. Got a couple, you

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Speaker 1: you're really running into trouble. Wow, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: tolerate each other, that's right, though, it is funny that

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Speaker 1: literally in our Solar system, if you look at the

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Speaker 1: mythological counterparts of the three the first three outer planets

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Speaker 1: you get to after the asteroid belt, you've got Jupiter,

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Speaker 1: you got Saturn, and then you got Uranas and there

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Speaker 1: if you look at their mythological counterparts, each one ascending

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Speaker 1: out there is the father of the other who was

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Speaker 1: defeated by the Sun. So Jupiter or Zeus defeated Chronus,

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Speaker 1: which is Saturn, and dethroned him, throw him into Tartarus.

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Speaker 1: But Chronus previously the Titan had defeated Uranos or Uranus

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Speaker 1: by castrating him and throwing his genitals into the ocean. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so like if you've been to thrown, you get pushed

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Speaker 1: further out of the solar hierarchy. Yeah, I guess so. Now,

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Speaker 1: now that's an interesting question, which is more like Tartarus

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Speaker 1: being cast into the sun like these early super earths

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Speaker 1: may have been, or being cast farther out into a

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Speaker 1: greater orbital radius where you're you're very cold and very

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Speaker 1: lone lee. I guess I go with the cold and

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Speaker 1: lonely uh interpretation more again, just in terms of thinking

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Speaker 1: about what mythological punishments would be, like I tend to imagine, uh,

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Speaker 1: the prison of the Titans as being cold and lonesome.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I wanted to, uh now now talk about

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Speaker 1: the idea of Jupiter's going eccentric, and uh, usually the

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Speaker 1: word eccentric, how do we use that? We use the

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Speaker 1: word eccentric to mean weird, but in kind of a

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Speaker 1: harmless way, like it's the nice version of weird, or

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Speaker 1: the or the at least the rich version of weird,

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Speaker 1: right right, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly what

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Speaker 1: you mean by that. But now in this case, this

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Speaker 1: would be uh eccentric in a way that is that

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Speaker 1: is not at all harmless and potentially could be world ending.

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Speaker 1: Uh So I wanted to look at a blog post

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Speaker 1: by an American astrophysicist living in France named Sean Raymond,

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Speaker 1: who I wanted to bring this up because I think

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Speaker 1: reading his blog on his website was one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I ended up wanting to do this pair of

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Speaker 1: episodes about Jupiter. I was originally reading his website because

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Speaker 1: he was one of the authors of a study about

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Speaker 1: moons of moons that I talked about for an episode

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Speaker 1: of The Artifact, where I was saying like, like, how

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Speaker 1: many levels of orbits can you go down? You know,

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Speaker 1: the the so the our our Sun orbits the center

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Speaker 1: of the Milky Way galaxy, and then the Earth orbits

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Speaker 1: the Sun, and then the moon orbits the Earth. But

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Speaker 1: could the moon have its own moon? And it turns

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Speaker 1: out the answer is yes, there's nothing in physics that

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Speaker 1: prevents moons from having moons. But of course, every every

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Speaker 1: step you go down that ladder of orbits within orbits,

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Speaker 1: the maximum size of the orbiting object gets smaller and smaller,

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Speaker 1: And if you include really small stuff, I think moons

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Speaker 1: of moons can have moons. But anyway, through that, I

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Speaker 1: ended up reading some posts on this guy's website. So

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Speaker 1: he's a professor of astrophysics at the University of Bordeaux

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Speaker 1: in France, and his blog is fun. He he sometimes

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Speaker 1: like writes poems about astrophysics, and that's weird stuff on there.

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Speaker 1: But there was this one post that I thought was

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Speaker 1: really interesting and got me thinking about this topic and

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Speaker 1: reading other stuff about it. And it was a post

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Speaker 1: called how planets die when good Jupiters go bad? And

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Speaker 1: the gist of this post here is about how planets

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Speaker 1: like Jupiter have the potential to destroy the solar systems

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Speaker 1: that they dwell within and in other planetary systems around

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Speaker 1: other stars in the galaxy. There is evidence that gas

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Speaker 1: giants like Jupiter have indeed already destroyed other planets in

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Speaker 1: in their solar systems. Uh Now, of course, as we

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Speaker 1: talked about in the last episode, Jupiter is the largest

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Speaker 1: planet in our Solar system. It's more than three hundred

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Speaker 1: times more massive than Earth. What was it was like

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Speaker 1: three hundred and seventeen times as massive as Earth or something,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just huge. And of course the Sun is

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Speaker 1: the largest gravitational influence in our Solar system, but Jupiter

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Speaker 1: is second in that regard, and Jupiter has more effects

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Speaker 1: on what happens to the rest of the objects in

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Speaker 1: the Solar System. Then you might imagine Raymond talks about

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Speaker 1: some stuff that we didn't really get into in the

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Speaker 1: last episode. Like one of the things he mentions is

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Speaker 1: that Jupiter probably would have blocked large icy bodies from

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Speaker 1: the outer Solar System from invading the inner Solar System

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Speaker 1: when the Solar System was first forming. It would have

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Speaker 1: cleared this large gap in the solar nebula disc that

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Speaker 1: was forming around the early Sun uh and with its

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Speaker 1: gravity it would prevent large icy objects from migrating inwards.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we already talked about that Batigan and Laughlin

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Speaker 1: idea that if it's correct, during Jupiter's Grand tach or

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Speaker 1: the movement in and then out again UH, it would

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Speaker 1: have had these catastrophic implications for early forming super Earth's

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Speaker 1: or many neptunes close to the Sun through this collisional

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Speaker 1: cascade uh and would have allowed small rocky planets like

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Speaker 1: Earth to take shape in the aftermath. But Jupiter also

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Speaker 1: we should remember, and this is one thing we're gonna

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Speaker 1: look at in several different ways today. Jupiter plays a

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Speaker 1: major role in influencing what kinds of space objects crash

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Speaker 1: into Earth and at what rate and at what velocity, Because,

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Speaker 1: to read from Raymond here quote, Jupiter's gravity determines how

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Speaker 1: comets enter the Inner Solar System and how long they

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Speaker 1: spend near the planets with the potential to crash into

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Speaker 1: Earth before launching them into interstellar space. And this has

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Speaker 1: implications both ways. So it means that Jupiter can act

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Speaker 1: as a kind of destroyer, flinging objects in our direction

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Speaker 1: in a dangerous way. But Jupiter can also act as

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Speaker 1: a kind of protector, shepherding objects away from Earth and

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Speaker 1: keeping us safe. And so Jupiter's effect on the movements

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Speaker 1: of space objects in the Inner Solar System, like asteroids

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Speaker 1: and especially comets, I think will have powerful effects on

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Speaker 1: things like the water contents of Earth and the biological

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Speaker 1: development of Earth, which will come back to as we

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Speaker 1: go on. But coming back to the idea of eccentric

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Speaker 1: jupiters now, I mentioned in the last episode that sometimes

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Speaker 1: when we look out at other stars in our galaxy,

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Speaker 1: we can see that they have large exoplanets, large gas

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Speaker 1: giants in very eccentric orbits. The orbits of most of

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Speaker 1: the planets in our Solar System are nearly circular. They're

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Speaker 1: not perfectly circular, but they're pretty close. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: roughly circular. If you look at the orbit of some comets, though,

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Speaker 1: it is a completely different story. There are comets that

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Speaker 1: orbit the Sun in these incredibly squashed, squeezed out oval trajectories. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And these orbits that deviate from near circularity are called eccentric.

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Speaker 1: And of course the more squashed out they get, the

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Speaker 1: more highly eccentric they are. So if you're trying to

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Speaker 1: picture it, you can think of a more eccentric orbit

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Speaker 1: is like a rubber band being stretched out instead of

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Speaker 1: allowed to just like sit slack in a circle. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, exoplanet research reveals that around other ours in

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Speaker 1: the galaxy there are gas giants like Jupiter that have

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Speaker 1: orbits more like these comets. So imagine a Jupiter or

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Speaker 1: a Saturn with a highly eccentric orbit more like a

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Speaker 1: stretched out rubber band. These types of planets exist, and

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Speaker 1: the question is, well, how does that happen? Well, Raymond

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Speaker 1: discusses one way, when gas giants act upon one another

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Speaker 1: in dangerous ways. So large gas giants exert gravitational influence

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Speaker 1: not only on comets, not only on the moons that

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Speaker 1: orbit them, but also on one another. You know, if

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Speaker 1: you have like two jupiters orbiting a star, they will

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Speaker 1: have influence on the paths that they each take. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Remember thinking again about the way that a Saturn may

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Speaker 1: have pulled Jupiter back out of the inner Solar System

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Speaker 1: according to the Grand Tach hypothesis. So if you have

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Speaker 1: two gas giants that are affecting one another gravitationally, it

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Speaker 1: can throw their orbits off course. And sometimes these gravitational

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Speaker 1: interactions can even put them into orbital patterns, uh, such

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Speaker 1: that one gas giant gets gravitationally ejected out of the

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Speaker 1: Solar System by the gravitational influence of the other. Like

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Speaker 1: it does sort of a gravity sling shot like we

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Speaker 1: might do with a with one of our space probes,

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Speaker 1: but on a planet, and just like throws it way

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Speaker 1: out of there, and then the other one remains, but

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Speaker 1: in this stretched out eccentric orbit. And as you might

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Speaker 1: well imagine, these gravitational disturbances in the orbits of gas

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Speaker 1: giants can have horrible effects on the planets nearby. So

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Speaker 1: if there are earthlike inner planets in one of these scenarios,

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Speaker 1: they tend to get cast into the pit of Tartarus. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And this could actually this could be either of the

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Speaker 1: Tartarus scenarios we were talking about earlier in the in

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Speaker 1: the closest thing to a literal sense, right, They either

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Speaker 1: get cast way out into nowhere, into space, or they

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Speaker 1: get thrown into the Sun or destroyed by collisions, possibly

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Speaker 1: with gas giants themselves or with other rocky planets or planetestimals,

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Speaker 1: and then those the debris from those collisions can spiral

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Speaker 1: into the Sun, or they get ejected and then just

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Speaker 1: plunge forever into the void. Yeah, it's the thing about

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Speaker 1: the Amokies. They tend to they tend to throughout the

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Speaker 1: old order in place it was something new. You know.

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Speaker 1: This reminds me of one of the possible explanations for

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Speaker 1: Umu Mua, that object, interstellar object that we did a

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Speaker 1: couple of episodes about that. Some people, I think, probably

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Speaker 1: very prematurely, we're trying to say it was an alien probe,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think there's good evidence of that. But

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Speaker 1: one of the ideas about what this object probably is

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Speaker 1: because it had strange characteristics, like it's kind of elongated

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Speaker 1: and seemed to be moving in a kind of tumbling motion.

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Speaker 1: One of the ideas is that it is part of

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Speaker 1: an object that was destroyed or rejected from its host

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Speaker 1: star system by a gravitational disturbance like this. Now, most

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Speaker 1: of the time, when a Jupiter turns murderous, when when Jupiter,

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Speaker 1: you know, when when his hand flashes with power, as

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Speaker 1: it says in the in has He, it's the agony

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Speaker 1: um when a gas giant goes rogue and destroys the

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Speaker 1: other planets. Most of the time it happens early in

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Speaker 1: the formation of the Solar System, shortly after most of

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Speaker 1: the material and the nebula disc is dissipated and absorbed

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Speaker 1: by newly forming planets. And the reasoning here is that

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Speaker 1: without the stabilizing presence of this cloud like disk, a

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Speaker 1: jupiter like planet can start going off the rails very quickly.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes a gas giant can turn into the destroyer.

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Speaker 1: Its hand can flash with power later in its lifespan,

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Speaker 1: for example, if its orbit is disturbed by external influence.

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Speaker 1: An example here could be another star passes too close

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Speaker 1: to the Solar System and this uh this causes gravitational disturbances,

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Speaker 1: throws the orbit of the jupiter like planet off course,

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Speaker 1: and then the same thing happens. It just it starts

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Speaker 1: this cascading series of effects on the orbits of other planets.

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Speaker 1: And you know, many of these inner rocky planets are

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Speaker 1: just destroyed, they're they're sent down into the sun on Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, if we're to to to draw in comparison

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Speaker 1: to maybe not literal the literal mythology, but just sort

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Speaker 1: of the nature of mythologies and belief I'm reminded of

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Speaker 1: what happens when a foreign um religion or foreign deity

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Speaker 1: uh comes too close to an establish religion and deity.

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Speaker 1: You know, it can also result in a fair amount

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Speaker 1: of disorder uh and a realigning of the order of things. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the realignment of a pantheon in the presence of a syncretism.

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Speaker 1: Right when we emerge to religions together. If you merge

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Speaker 1: to two stars gravity is too close to one another,

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Speaker 1: this can definitely realign things and possibly result in a monotheism. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: more on that in a bit. So, Yeah, I do

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Speaker 1: want to be clear, we're not saying there's any reason

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Speaker 1: to think that this is likely to happen to our

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Speaker 1: solar system anytime soon like that that that's not the

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Speaker 1: implication here, but it is scary to imagine that it

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Speaker 1: does sometimes happen around other stars, and at least is

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Speaker 1: possible in theory that you know, you can have this

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Speaker 1: influence from some kind of external object, another star passes

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Speaker 1: too close or something. This can nudge the orbit of

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Speaker 1: a previously pretty stable Jupiter like planet, leading to a

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Speaker 1: cascade of effects like we just talked about, and then

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Speaker 1: the Earth like planets have an appointment with the wicker Man.

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Speaker 1: And uh. One interesting thing that Raymond mentions in this

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Speaker 1: blog post is he does some rough calculations and guesses

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Speaker 1: that about half of the stars in the Milky Way

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Speaker 1: galaxy with gas planets have annihilated the rocky planets through

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Speaker 1: a process like this. And remember that it's much more

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Speaker 1: likely for to happen early during formation, when when the

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Speaker 1: disk is first sorting itself out, but it can, in

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Speaker 1: some rare cases happen later. And I guess this all

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Speaker 1: comes down to the fact that we have a Jupiter

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Speaker 1: and we still exist. So it looks like in in

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Speaker 1: some sense we're one of the lucky ones. But it's

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Speaker 1: also true that the influence of Jupiter or gas giants

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Speaker 1: in general, especially Jupiter in our case, doesn't stop there.

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Speaker 1: I mean the influence on Jupiter on the history of

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Speaker 1: the planet Earth appears to be pervasive. I was looking

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Speaker 1: at one study by A. Lisa V. Quintana, Thomas Barclay,

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Speaker 1: William J. Baruki, Jason f Row, and Johnny Chambers from

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Speaker 1: the Astrophysical Journal called the Frequency of Giant Impacts on

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Speaker 1: Earthlike Worlds, and I was reading some write ups of this,

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Speaker 1: and basically, these researchers did some simulations of what happens

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Speaker 1: in different types of Solar System configurations where you have

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Speaker 1: a Jupiter present, or where you don't have a Jupiter present,

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Speaker 1: where you have multiple jupiters, and their simulations revealed that

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Speaker 1: in general, gas giants like Jupiter have complicated effects on

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Speaker 1: rocky inner planets like Earth. So young Jupiter, they think,

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Speaker 1: probably flung material into the cores of newly forming rocky

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Speaker 1: planets when the Solar System was young, and this would

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Speaker 1: have helped planets like Earth come together faster than rocky

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Speaker 1: planets in the Solar System without a nearby gas giant.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, by hoarding materials to themselves,

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Speaker 1: gas giants limit the number of rocky planets that form

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Speaker 1: around a star. So if you have a star without

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Speaker 1: a planet like Jupiter, it can have way more rocky

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Speaker 1: planets out there. Um. And then if you don't have

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Speaker 1: any nearby gas giants, young rocky planets are subjected to

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Speaker 1: a much longer period of early bombardment where they're just

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Speaker 1: constantly being hit with impacts from space by smaller objects

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Speaker 1: from the solar nebula cloud. And a planet like Jupiter

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Speaker 1: makes that cloud disappear faster and thus makes the early

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Speaker 1: bombardment period last a shorter span of time. But then again,

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Speaker 1: you can also look at ways that a planet like

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Speaker 1: Jupiter ends up accelerating larger objects like comets into the

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Speaker 1: inner Solar System and controlling how long they stay there

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Speaker 1: in the Inner Solar System. Uh. And of course those

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Speaker 1: things can lead to impacts later on down the line

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Speaker 1: that a act Earth life. So Jupiter is once again

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Speaker 1: sort of protecting and attacking in tandem. Yeah. I guess

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Speaker 1: the relationships between humans and gods that they tend to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit unhealthy. But then again, I mean

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Speaker 1: there there are reasons. I guess what we've gone through

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Speaker 1: here kind of uh, you know, justifies the ways of

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Speaker 1: God demand uh to some extent than well, Rob I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I am ready to mount

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Speaker 1: an apologia for Jupiter pluvious. Yeah, let's do it. Let's

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Speaker 1: let's talk Jupiter the god a bit more. Um Again,

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Speaker 1: I think this comparison between planet Jupiter and the god

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Speaker 1: Jupiter is is increasingly apt the more you look at it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And in this episode, we're talking a good deal and

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Speaker 1: we're still talking about Jupiter the destroyer and Jupiter um

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Speaker 1: of of passionate lashing out against a humanity. But but

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Speaker 1: also Jupiter the protector, Jupiter the Lord of Earth, because

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Speaker 1: he enforces his order upon it and he is in

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Speaker 1: many ways its protector. And he was also expressly stated

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Speaker 1: to be the protector of the Roman state. The White

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Speaker 1: Ox was his favorite sacrifice, and it could afford an

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Speaker 1: entire year's protection uh from the Lord of the gods. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And he probably took this sort of thing seriously, seeing

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Speaker 1: as how he was also the god of oaths and treaties.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of a rules Yeah. Yeah, so you know

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Speaker 1: he's lawful. Whatever else he is, he's he's lawful. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So I was, well, maybe he's the emblem of lawfulness

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Speaker 1: to others. I don't know, does he have to follow

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Speaker 1: the laws himself. Well, I mean he's he's in. It's

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Speaker 1: here in a tough spot, like if you can't, who

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Speaker 1: are you going to report him to write? Uh? I

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Speaker 1: was reading the Imperial Ideology of Rome and the Principalities

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Speaker 1: and Powers in Romans eight thirty one through thirty nine

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Speaker 1: by Sun Cho Hong in scripture and interpretation from two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, and Home points that imperial Roman propaganda

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Speaker 1: expressly stated that the safety of the entire human race

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Speaker 1: lay in the hands of mighty Jupiter. And this is

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Speaker 1: the point pressed by Cicero, among others. And I believe

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Speaker 1: in the particularly in on the ends of Good and Evil.

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Speaker 1: I want to read a quote here from it, uh,

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Speaker 1: And this is not I want to stress that Cicero

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Speaker 1: goes into a lot more detail about all this, and

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Speaker 1: he's he's crafting a much greater point, uh than this.

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Speaker 1: This is just a fragment. But he does a right

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Speaker 1: or he does say. Quote, when we call Jupiter all

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Speaker 1: powerful and all good, and likewise, when we speak of

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Speaker 1: him as the salutary God, the hospitable God, or as state,

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Speaker 1: or we mean it to be understood that the safety

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Speaker 1: of men is under his protection This reminds me of

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Speaker 1: like when when presidents of the United States will say, like,

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Speaker 1: the president's first responsibility is to keep America safe. This

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00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: seems like a very close analogy. It's just like, first

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Speaker 1: of all, I am, I am the daddy, and it

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Speaker 1: is it is all protection from me. Yeah, so this

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Speaker 1: seems to be again Cicero's saying all other things in

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00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: this work, uh, I mean additional things, but this seems

402
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 1: to be like a major talking point for just Roman

403
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: propaganda in general. But so there's the thing that's kind

404
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: of interesting about Jupiter that I think we would recognize

405
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Speaker 1: as commons say in like Indian religion, uh, that gods

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Speaker 1: can have multiple manifestations or faces. Yes to the Romans

407
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 1: didn't exactly have one Jupiter. They had multiple aspects of Jupiter.

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00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 1: Now sometimes these are referred to more as uh as epithets,

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Speaker 1: you know, just a just different descriptions of of Jupiter.

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Speaker 1: But ultimately, I think the line between the two, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can see where it enters a gray area, Like

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Speaker 1: if you're just describing different properties of the same being,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's only a short hop and a

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00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: jump to having different uh different you know beings entirely,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the Christian tradition, you see, you see

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Speaker 1: some of this right because on one hand, and you

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Speaker 1: it's what you can talk about like God the Father,

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Speaker 1: and you can talk about like different divisions of the

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00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: same being. But on the other hand, you see throughout

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Speaker 1: you know, Christian history a a tendency to want to say,

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Speaker 1: focus on, say that the feminine aspects of Christ uh

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00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: in you know, certainly in in visual representation, but also

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Speaker 1: then embodying different ideas of what Christ was. And then

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Speaker 1: that maybe um stamped down out of fear of heresy,

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Speaker 1: the idea that if people keep going in this direction,

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Speaker 1: it will butt off into an alternative Jesus. So you

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Speaker 1: can you can tell how how the sort of thing

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00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: can lead to the division um. Even at the same time,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like saying, okay, we have all these

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Speaker 1: instead of having just a dozen gods, we could have

431
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: maybe have um. We could you know, still have other gods,

432
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: but we could also have just like a dozen different

433
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: versions or different um incarnations of the same being. And

434
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: that's kind of what you see with Jupiter here. Yeah,

435
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: the Romans had an idea of what we now call superstition,

436
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: you know, that comes from a Roman idea meaning basically

437
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: being too religious, because picking up off what you were

438
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: just saying, there is a pattern I think throughout the

439
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: religions of the world where when people get incredibly invested

440
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: in their religion, like very passionate about it, they are

441
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 1: prone more often too too religious innovation, and religious innovation

442
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,239
Speaker 1: can lead to you know, you start really focusing on

443
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: maybe one aspect of an existing God or something, maybe

444
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: that becomes a new God, and then you've got a

445
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: new cult, and that that new cult could maybe undermine

446
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: things that came before. Now, there was in the Roman Empire,

447
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: while the Romans were incredibly tyrannical, there was a kind

448
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: of weird religious pluralism there where there there could you know,

449
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: you could have a lot of different kinds of religious

450
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: beliefs in the Roman Empire and it would be mostly

451
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: okay as long as you weren't causing trouble. But there's

452
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: always I think a certain fear of religious innovation stemming

453
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: from too much interpretive interest in the nature of God's

454
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: in religious matter is among the existing religious authorities. That

455
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: makes sense, Yeah, yeah, totally. Um so, so I know

456
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: I was reading all this, it didn't it did raise

457
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: an interesting question for me, like, given all these different

458
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: aspects of Jupiter, and I'll get into what they are

459
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: here in in a minute. Uh, you know the fact

460
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: that Jupiter had his own priests and that Romans tended

461
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: towards syncretism, which we already mentioned. This is the combining

462
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: of different theological ideas, like instead of hearing about a

463
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: new God, uh, for instance, in a territory that you

464
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: have absorbed into your empire, instead of saying, okay, that

465
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: God's out. Wait whatever you're doing to that God, forget it,

466
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: instead saying, well, actually that God is part of our pantheon,

467
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: or that God is actually Jupiter, that sort of thing. Well,

468
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I look at the way that the Romans

469
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: essentially just adopted almost wholesale, originally the mythology of the Greeks. Yeah.

470
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 1: So so given given this, and given that the situation

471
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: with the different aspects of Jupiter, um, I was wanting

472
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: do do we see in this at least a movement

473
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: toward monotheis him, Because that, of course is one of

474
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: the things about the Roman Empire is that it eventually

475
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: it becomes a Christian empire. There's this movement towards monotheistic

476
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: Christian belief. Well, I don't know if this helps with

477
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: the point you're developing. But the but the secular biblical

478
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: historian Bart Irman, who's a previous guest on the show,

479
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: he was on the show last year. He's got a

480
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: book about why Christianity eventually overtook the Roman Empire and UH,

481
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: and his theory on that, which seems very reasonable to me,

482
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: is that the main thing going for Christianity is that,

483
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: unlike all of the other religions in the Roman Empire

484
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: at the time, or most of the other religions in

485
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: the Roman Empire at the time, Christianity was evangelical and

486
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: it was exclusive, so they were trying to convert people

487
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 1: to it. And unlike the existing Roman religions, you couldn't

488
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: add other gods into Christianity, or you weren't supposed to.

489
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: I mean, some people probably did, but mostly Christians were

490
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: preaching that no, once you're a Christian, you can only

491
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: believe in Jesus and you have to forget all these

492
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: other gods. And over time those dynamics led to effects

493
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: where Christianity would just grow and grow and it would

494
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: push out because every new Christian wasn't just like a

495
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: pagan adopting one additional god. But now like they weren't

496
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: a pagan anymore that you want, you weren't to lay

497
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: allowed to keep your old gods as well, right, Yeah, yeah,

498
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: because I think even though if we're looking at this,

499
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 1: we're thinking, okay, you're you're going to the temple that's

500
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: just to Jupiter. You're worshiping Jupiter, maybe in different aspects,

501
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: but you're you're you're pretty much focusing on him. Even

502
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: if you did not worship any of the other gods

503
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: in the Roman pantheon, that wouldn't be monotheism. That would

504
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: be what is called hino theism, which is the adherence

505
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: to one particular god out of many. So saying like, yeah,

506
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: all these other gods they're they're fine, they exist, but

507
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: this is my guy, this is my gal. Yeah, And

508
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: that that was common in the Roman Empire, that you

509
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: believe in the other gods, and you would maybe respect

510
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: the other gods, but you might have like a personal

511
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: favorite god who you were really devoted to. Yeah. Like

512
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: even in that work on a Sistero that I was

513
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: quoting earlier, Um, he's he's mentioning adherence to Jupiter, but

514
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: he's also in the same work mentioning adherence to smaller

515
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: household gods. So yeah, you can you can see that

516
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: if if suddenly you're like, no, you can't keep your

517
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: household gods, you have to pretty much abandon the old way,

518
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: uh and and and take to this new one. Uh.

519
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: You know, you have to cut off the other gods

520
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: from your life. I could see that being maybe something

521
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: that keeps you from drifting back into another one. Sure.

522
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: Like like if you if you have to get this

523
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: new video game and you have to throw out all

524
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: your other video games, well, if you get bored with

525
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: the new one, you're not going to go back to

526
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: the old ones because they're not in the house anymore. Okay,

527
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: so you only got one game. Now you get bored

528
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: with it. What you start doing is looking for glitches

529
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: in the game to exploit and start trying to break

530
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: the physics, which you could look at it for in

531
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: religious point of view. You start maybe innovating how the

532
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: religion works, thinking about maybe I've received a new vision

533
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: that tells me that the priests don't have it exactly right.

534
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: This is the version. Yeah, yeah, new new fan theories

535
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: about exactly what what Mario means to the franchise, et cetera.

536
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: Now I was I was looking around about at this

537
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: about this question of of monotheism and polytheis him in

538
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: the Roman Empire? And uh, there's an interesting sounding book.

539
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with this author, but

540
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: it came It was by Stephen Mitchell, who I think

541
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: has done a lot of work in religion and involved

542
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: in some translations of various works such as the Guita.

543
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: But he has this book called One God, Pagan Monotheism

544
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: in the Roman Empire, and it discusses the complexity of

545
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: the shift from polytheism to monotheism, but also it deals

546
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: with this idea of quote pagan monotheism. And apparently historians

547
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: have some historians have considered the various Roman cults to

548
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: be something we might interpret as monotheistic structures. Um, so

549
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: this kind of thing might be worth a deeper dive

550
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: in a later episode, because it's apparently it's not a

551
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: cut and dry issue. Rob. I was just trying to

552
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: look up and figure out I'm not quite sure the answer.

553
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: If this is the same Stephen Mitchell who did one

554
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: of my favorite poetry translations A translation of Rainner Maria

555
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: Rilka's Archaic Torso of Apollo into English. It's uh, I

556
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever read this. His translation is

557
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: the version that ends an English thing for here there

558
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: is no place that does not see you. You must

559
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: change your life. Oh wow, No, I don't think I've

560
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: read that, but but it it might bob be him.

561
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: It looks like he's He was involved in a number

562
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: of translations and adaptations, including like the Guida, but also

563
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: like the Iliad. Uh, you know various some some Chinese

564
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: works in their um you know, the Epic of Gilgamesh.

565
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuff. Well, I'm not sure

566
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: if it's the same Stephen Mitchell, but if so, that

567
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: that's a good translation of that poem Archaic Torso of Apollo,

568
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: you can look up um So. I didn't have time

569
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: to to really dig into this one God book, but

570
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: I just want to read a quick quote that I

571
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: found in it from author Stephen Mitchell on this topic. Quote,

572
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: Pagan polytheis did not individually become monotheist, but through philosophy

573
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: and the comparing of religious ideas, by adopting and inventing

574
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: new cults and learning how to individualize and express religious experience.

575
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: They transformed ancient religion into a terrain of human experience

576
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: where much, including monotheism, was possible. Oh that's interesting looking

577
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: at the possibility that a trend towards monotheism could actually

578
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: emerge from the kind of commerce of religious ideas that

579
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: you would have in a very uh pluralistic, multicultural empire. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah,

580
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: it kind of gets back to the point where you

581
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: were you're mentioning earlier. So let's get into some of

582
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: these aspects of Jupiter, these different Jupiter sub brands, if

583
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: you will, that were available under the Roman Empire. Uh

584
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: so um. In addition to sense of the sources I

585
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: mentioned already, I was also looking at aspects of Jupiter

586
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: on Coins of the Roman Mint by Philip V. Hill

587
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: from this is from nineteen sixty. But this one, this

588
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: particular article is one that dealt more exclusively with aspects

589
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: of Jupiter has represented on coins, um, which is also

590
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: pretty interesting. So let's start with Jupiter stature, who we

591
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. That's that's who Cistero is referring to. And

592
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: this is he who stays panic in battle. Uh. This

593
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: is uh, this is Jupiter depicted with a scepter and

594
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: a thunderbolt. And this is the Jupiter that gives you courage,

595
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: that gives you resolved to not be crushed by fear. Okay,

596
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: so it stays panic means like holds back panic, not

597
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: like he keeps you panicked right right now. So so

598
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: that's obviously a big one. You know what, what one

599
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: of the reasons to appeal to a god is like

600
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: for strength, right, Like give me that strength, give me

601
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: the resolve to to not run away, especially if you're

602
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: dealing with a warring empire. Likewise, along those lines, another

603
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: big one was Jupiter Victor, the giver of victory, depicted

604
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: it as seated and holding a statue all victory and

605
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: a scepter or spear. This was especially prominent on coins,

606
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: and then it might be invoked. This version of Jupiter

607
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: might be invoked either celebrate an actual victory that occurred

608
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: or in anticipation of an upcoming victory. So this is

609
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: Jupiter the conqueror, Jupiter what is best in life? Right? Yes?

610
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: What to crush the Titans see them driven before you

611
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: hear their lamentations from Tartarus. Yeah, but of course the

612
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: Jupiter I mean, presumably God also has to govern, and

613
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: certainly the Roman Empire would have realized that as well.

614
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: It's one thing to conquer, but then you need to

615
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: hold your territory. And that's where the next aspect comes

616
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: in Jupiter conservator. Uh, this is a Jupiter that holds

617
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: a thunderbolt, but he's holding it above the image of

618
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: the Roman emperor, so he's kind of a preserver of rule.

619
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: That's a kind of a halo concept. I think, you know.

620
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: It's like saying, like the will of Jupiter resonates through

621
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: the emperor, and he was the one who rules over

622
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: these lands. Now one of the big ones is Jupiter

623
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: Optimus Maximus or Jupiter Optimus Maximus capital Linus. And this

624
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: is the most powerful aspect of Jupiter, all powerful as such,

625
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: the temple of Jupiter optimist Maximus was the most important

626
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: temple in ancient Rome, local gated on Capitol Line Hill. Now,

627
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: some other versions you had Jupiter full gore. This is

628
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: the lightning Jupiter, but not passively so like Jupiter often

629
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: has lightning, but this is like Jupiter with the aggressive stance,

630
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: like he's going to smite you, gonna hurl the thunderbolt

631
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: for some reason when you said that I pictured not Jupiter,

632
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: but I guess uh, an analog to Jupiter Marduke holding

633
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: holding this. Yeah, that's the famous image, but Marduke is

634
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: often pictured in kind of a fighting stance from the side. Yeah,

635
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: there's one that was referred to as a Jupiter Dolicinus.

636
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: And this was the focus of a Roman mystery cult,

637
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: originally a local hit tight hurry and god of fertility

638
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: and thunder. So here we see an example of of

639
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: of the of Romans combining ideas. Another deity from another

640
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 1: land is taken in and becomes an aspect of Jupiter.

641
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: Then you have a Jupiter ruminus. This is the breast

642
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: feeder of all life. And then as we mentioned earlier,

643
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: Jupiter pluvious. This is this cinder of rain. In times

644
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: of drought, special sacrifices were made in the name of

645
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: Jupiter Pluvius, and these were called aquilsum. Uh. So this

646
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: is where we're getting back to consideration of not only

647
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: the mythic Jupiter, but but the the Jupiter the planet

648
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: as well. Uh. The idea of Jupiter as as he

649
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: who delivers the rain, he who delivers the water. Yeah.

650
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: And so we already talked about some ways that Jupiter

651
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: has has influenced what kind of stuff smashed into the

652
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: the forming and then the early Earth to determine its composition,

653
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 1: what size it would grow to, and what was on

654
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: its surface and what kind of volatiles it had in

655
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: terms of an atmosphere and possibly surface water. Yes, uh,

656
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: and so in this I mean, we're still talking about

657
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: the planet Jupiter pelting the rocky planets with stuff, you know,

658
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: like it's still ultimately a violent relationship. But but the

659
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: idea here is that is Jupiter is not only throwing thunderbolts. Uh.

660
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: The Jovian bombardments might have included water or would be water,

661
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 1: specifically hydrogen rich material. And this wind's up locked into

662
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: Earth's crust and mantle and emerges later to bond with

663
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: oxygen to become water. Uh. So one of the sources

664
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: we're looking at with this, as Nola Taylor red article

665
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: for Smithsonian dot com from back in focusing on the

666
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: work of French astronomer Shawn Raymond, who we've already talked about, uh,

667
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: whose models predict this possible gas giant thrown delivery of

668
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: water rich material to the inner planets. Also key is

669
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: the work of andre Isadoro, who along with Raymond, published

670
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: a paper on this in seventeen titled Origin of Water

671
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: in the Inner Solar System. Okay, so what do they argue? Okay?

672
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: So the idea here is that four point five billion

673
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: years ago, the massive center of the and in this

674
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna touch on some stuff we've already gone through.

675
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: But then the massive center of the cloud of gas

676
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: and cosmic dust begins to form into a central star,

677
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: our Sun. But the remaining cloud remained and its contents

678
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: would in time form into the planets. But the water

679
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 1: rich region of the disc would have been located several

680
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: astronomical units away from the Sun. The temperature in the

681
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: inner region was too high, so that water then ultimately

682
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: has to move back to the inner planets to become

683
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: a part of them so that we can have water

684
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: on Earth. So this would have occurred um between during

685
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: a five to ten million year period between the Sun's

686
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: formation and the dissipation of the gas disc. During this time,

687
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: the gas giants formed, and quote Jupiter's rapid growth gravitationally

688
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: disturbed thousands of water rich planetismals, dislodging them from their

689
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: original orbits. Okay, so we see yet again, Jupiter as

690
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: it's coming together, begins to throw its weight around, it

691
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: exerts gravitational influence, and in this case would have started

692
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: pulling in these uh, these planetesimals, these these objects, you know,

693
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: objects that might be I don't know, asteroid sized or larger,

694
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: that have some kind of water hydrogen content on them,

695
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: and then slamming them into the inner solar system. Right.

696
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: It's it's basically you know, what it reminds me of

697
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: is I don't know if you've seen these sort of

698
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: vaudevillian skits where like you have your your your bad comic,

699
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: you're sort of Fozzy Bear type, and he's on stage,

700
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: he's bombing. I mean, he's just really dogging it up. Uh,

701
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: And so that the audience is of course pelting him

702
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: with fruits and vegetables and he either catches one in

703
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 1: his mouth and begins to eat it, or catches something

704
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: like catches the carrot and starts eating it. So like

705
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: they're they're pelting and they're engaging in violence, but they're

706
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: throwing nutrients at him and he is like, yes, I

707
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: am hungry, I shall eat that is that's kind of

708
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: the relationship going on here. Um, well, the fozzy bear effect,

709
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to call it anyway. UM. I was reading

710
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: some more about this. Um uh Isidoro had provided some

711
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: quotes about this that were used in press really as

712
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 1: and write ups, in particular one that was on Eureka

713
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: alort dot com. And this is what they said, quote

714
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,959
Speaker 1: in our own Solar system. The model shows that ice

715
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: is from the outer Solar system snowed down on the

716
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: Earth in three waves. The first came as Jupiter swelled up,

717
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: the second was triggered during Saturn's formation, and the third

718
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: would have occurred when Uranus and Neptune migrated inward before

719
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: being blocked by the other two and sent back to

720
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: the outskirts of the Solar system. Ah, and that ties

721
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: into something that I was talking about earlier when I

722
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: was mentioning that blog post by Sean Raymond, one of

723
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: the authors here that the early forming Jupiter, and I'm

724
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: not sure if he's saying also maybe Saturn too, but

725
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: at least definitely Jupiter and perhaps also Saturn would have

726
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: prevented these icy bodies ran Us in Neptune from migrating

727
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: inward towards the inner Solar system. And messing with the

728
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: planets that were forming down in closer to the Sun. Yeah.

729
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately, if you have an all powerful guide

730
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: like Jupiter, one of the things that that they're supposed

731
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: to do is keep keep his dreaded father and grandfather

732
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: from taking over creation again, right, I mean, that's why

733
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,959
Speaker 1: we're putting up with all of this right right now.

734
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: One other neat thing about this that the authors point

735
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: out is that, you know, it might not just be

736
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: a quirk of our own Solar system. It might not

737
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: just be the peculiar peculiar story of of life on

738
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: Earth and life in this system. This could be going

739
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: on anywhere that you have both giant planets and terrestrial planets. Um.

740
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: So this is the sort of thing that if this

741
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: is true, this would be another thing to look for

742
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: in our exoplanet surveys. Look for situations where you have

743
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: like the right proportions and right arrangements of gas giants

744
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: and rocky inner planets where this same bombardment of water

745
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: could happen. Yeah, this is really interesting and uh. And

746
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: of course in the specific case of Earth, it of

747
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: course goes without saying that we couldn't have life on

748
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: Earth without surface. You know, plenty of surface water on Earth.

749
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: So so this is something that uh, if if this

750
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: mottle of the early Solar System is correct, this would

751
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: again be crucial to us being here at all. Thank you,

752
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Now I've got another thing that, again,

753
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: a an astrophysical theory that, if correct, would be crucial

754
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: for us being here at all. Uh. And this would

755
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: have more to do with the history of life on Earth.

756
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: Once you've already got the rocky planet Earth, and you've

757
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: already got Earth life, what happens to shape the course

758
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: of evolution on the surface of this planet. Well, there

759
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: is a new paper published in uh Nature Scientific Reports

760
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: in one so I think it was just out last month.

761
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 1: It was in February of this year by I'm here

762
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: Sarage and Abraham Loeb or Avy. Loeb called the breakup

763
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: of a long period comet as the origin of the

764
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 1: dinosaur extinction. Uh. And so I was briefly reading a

765
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: Harvard gazette right up of of this study. Not gonna

766
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: go super in depth about it, but basically what the

767
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: authors argue here is that Jupiter's gravitational field influenced objects,

768
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,439
Speaker 1: a comment probably originating from the Ort Cloud. So that's

769
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: way out there past the Kuiper Belt. You know, this

770
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: huge sphere of icy objects, way way out in the distance,

771
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: beyond the orbit of Neptune, beyond the orbit of Pluto,

772
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 1: beyond the Kuiper Belt. Even that Jupiter disturbed the orbit

773
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: of one of these comets from the Ort Cloud, and

774
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: this disturbance of its orbit sent it really close to

775
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: the Sun where tidal forces then broke the commet apart.

776
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: And this would increase the rate of comets that would

777
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: bombard the Earth. And these commets would include objects like

778
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: the chicks Alube impact object, which hit the Earth about

779
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: sixty six million years ago, and according to the leading

780
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: theory today, is probably the main thing responsible for the

781
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: extinction of the non avian dinosaurs. And so Lowe Ban

782
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 1: Saraj here argue that it is the gravitation sational influence

783
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: of Jupiter that increases these kinds of impacts through the

784
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: mechanism I just described, And Sarage is quoted in this

785
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: Harvard Gazette piece where he says, quote, basically, Jupiter acts

786
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: as a kind of pinball machine. Jupiter kicks these incoming

787
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: long period comets into orbits that bring them very close

788
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: to the Sun. When you have these sun grazers. It's

789
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 1: not so much the melting that goes on, which is

790
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: a pretty small fraction relative to the total mass, but

791
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: the comet is so close to the Sun that the

792
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: part of it that's closer to the Sun feels a

793
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: stronger gravitational pull than the part that is farther from

794
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: the Sun, causing a tidal force. You get what's called

795
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: a tidal disruption event. And so these large comets that

796
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: come really close to the Sun break up into smaller

797
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: comets and basically on their way out, there's a statistical

798
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: chance that these smaller comets hit the Earth. So huge

799
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: icy objects from out in the Orc cloud getting diverted

800
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,479
Speaker 1: by the gravitational influence of Jupiter so that they pass

801
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: really close to the Sun. They sort of shatter as

802
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: they do so because the tidal forces from the Sun

803
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: are so strong, and then they turn into a kind

804
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: of buckshot blast of huge icy objects in the inner

805
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: Solar System that can hit Earth and potentially cause mass extinctions.

806
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: And I think one of the arguments that they also

807
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: bring up is that the is that it looks like

808
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: the carbonaceous content of the object that caused the KPg

809
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: extinction is more similar to stuff you're you're likely to

810
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: find in these deep space or cloud objects then in

811
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: things you're more likely to find closer to the inner

812
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: Solar System, like in the asteroid belt. So again, this

813
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: is another argument that is based on simulations and statistical analysis.

814
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: But if this is correct, it is yet another one

815
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: of the many ways that Jupiter would be responsible for

816
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: the fact that we exist at all. While it was

817
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, calamitous for the non avian dinosaurs, it paved

818
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: the way for the age of mammals. I like that

819
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: if if this worked true, this is true, we we

820
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: might need a new aspect for the god Jupiter, maybe

821
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: Jupiter or extinct or god of extinctions, you know, yeah,

822
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: good with He could be shown holding a lizard in

823
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: one hand and a thunderbolt in the other, like he's

824
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: about to like smash it in his palm. His hand

825
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: flashes with power, but it's against a bunch of had restaurs.

826
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 1: They're trying to guard their eggs, and he's like, well

827
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 1: he was probably his thinking was, probably look these these

828
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: these life forms. They're not worshiping me. Now, Honestly, I

829
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,959
Speaker 1: don't think they're going to be worshiping worshiping me anytime soon.

830
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: Unless I really shake things up. I'm just gonna smite

831
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 1: a lot of them, right, you know what I really like.

832
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: I really like the look of that rat like creature

833
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: down there, and it's gonna be twinkle in its I

834
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: think some some good things could happen if I give

835
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: the rats a chance. Though, it does make me wonder,

836
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: you know, did I wonder if Jupiter slash Zeus got

837
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: up to you know, his normal tricks. Did he go

838
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: down and take the form of different uh dinosaurs and

839
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 1: mate with the dinosaur ors to create like certain demi

840
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: god dinosaurs that would have been just you know, extra

841
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: powerful amid their dinosaur brethren. What would the dinosaur mythology

842
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: version of the minotaur be would be like a Tyrannosaurus

843
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: rex with the head of a triceratops, I guess. But

844
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 1: but then again, I don't know. I feel like like

845
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: the minotaur is one of those beasts that's kind of

846
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: born out of um feuding with the gods and disobeying

847
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: the gods. I don't know. I guess the dinosaurs, just

848
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: by refusing to worship, are just not being capable of it.

849
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: You know, the gods could have taken that the wrong

850
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 1: way and dished out some punishment. But um, I don't

851
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: know like this, I think this would be a rich

852
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: area for I don't know, an action figure line or

853
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: maybe a comic book like the The The Age of

854
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 1: of Gods and Dinosaurs. Um, what would that have been like? Also?

855
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: I mean if if humans weren't even in the game yet,

856
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 1: I guess uh, any form that the Jupiter took would

857
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: be that of a dinosaur, So like, how would he appear?

858
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: Would he appear as a as a great t rex

859
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: or some sort of enorma I mean, he is a

860
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: god of the sky. Maybe he takes the form of

861
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: a of of an enormous um of you know, flying reptile.

862
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Jupiter is quetzalcoatlas. Oh yeah, that

863
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: would be fitting, especially since you know humans found those

864
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: bones and named it after a god. So what what

865
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: better form for the sky god to take? We're all

866
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: but I think we gotta call it there. But this

867
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: has been a lot of fun. Yeah, this has I

868
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: love getting the switch back and forth between the planetary

869
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: and the mythological. I should mention, however, we mostly speak

870
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: of the Roman gods as figures of the past, just

871
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: as we do with Greek deities in ancient Egyptian deities.

872
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: But we should also mention that there are modern worshippers

873
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: as well, not only of of of Greek deities in

874
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: ancient Egyptian deities, but also of of Roman Jupiter. Um.

875
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: You know, after all, just as modern humans reach for

876
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: new models, entirely new models of religion, uh, you know,

877
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: drawing things even out of popular culture like Star Wars

878
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: or The Dude, we also reach for the old ones

879
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 1: and reconstructions of the old ones. Thus we do see

880
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: Roman polytheistic reconstructionism uh in several different groups and forms.

881
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: So um uh just always worth worth mentioning. I don't

882
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: think we we blasphemed too much in this regarding Jupiter,

883
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: but uh an a right, if anyone out there who's

884
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: actively involved in a religion or some sort of spiritual

885
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: movement that that that reveres Jupiter, I would I'd love

886
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: to hear from you. I'd love to know you know,

887
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: how do you think of Jupiter? How does how does

888
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: this material sit with you? Um? So yeah, I always

889
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: find that kind of thing interesting. We have in the

890
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: past heard from at least one listener who um engages

891
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: in a religious model that incorporates Egyptian deities. Oh yeah,

892
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, all right, Well, if you would like

893
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: to listen to other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind,

894
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: you know where to find them. Find them in the

895
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed That is where

896
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: core episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind published on

897
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursday that's the main show. That's the main event,

898
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: but then we also have listener mail on Monday's. On

899
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: Wednesday's we do the artifact episodes unless they've been preempted

900
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: for some reason, and then on Friday's we do Weird

901
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: House Cinema. That's our time to just cut loose and

902
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: discuss some weird movies, and then we run a little

903
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: rerun over the weekend in the form of a vault episode.

904
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,959
Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

905
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch

906
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other,

907
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, just to say hello,

908
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

909
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

910
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,440
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911
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or

912
00:50:50,560 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: wherever you're listening to your favorite shows. The present, Joy Joy,

913
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: Thy po