1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: This is the business of sports where in the situation 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, pandemic here 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: has really accelerated the investments that we've been advocating for 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: for years. From a Macrow standpoint, I think our sport 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: industry is really forced to look at the business a 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: little bit differently. In depth conversations with the leaders in 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: the sports industry. Who wants to be the sacrificial lambs 8 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: that shows up at the first big major sporting event, 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: a part of something much bigger than the sports right 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: now and the health and tasty of our stakeholders, the 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: books much important every moment. I think we're all from 12 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: the business respective thinking about the impact that the virus 13 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: is having across the country. In Bloomberg Business of Sports 14 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Radio, Hello, I'm Jason Kelly, and I'm Michaelynch 15 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: and I'm Michael Barr And this is the Bloomberg Business 16 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: of Sports podcast, where we explore the big money issues 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: in the world of sports. Today. We are talking all 18 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: things sports gambling with sports info dot Com CEO Steve Budden. 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: Steve brings twenty plus years of experience at the table 20 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: and we hope to get some insights on the landscape 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: for online betting. I know, I got my pen and 22 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: my notepad in this unusual time for professional sports. Steve, 23 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. It's good to be It's funny 24 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: you say that. And the old days used to say 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: go get a pen, but now everyone has a computer. 26 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: No one has an old man. I was gonna say 27 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: that bar has a way of doing doing a little 28 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: bit of a throwback here to put it kindly. Um So, Steve, 29 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking to you on Monday, September and 30 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: I have to say it feels like there's a sense 31 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: of relief and maybe a sense of Dare I say, 32 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: in this uncertain world, a little bit of sense of 33 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: normalcy because this was a massive sports weekend we're coming 34 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: out of. I would agree. And it also highlights the 35 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: fact that for many, many years now sports have been transitioning, 36 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, at least for gamblers, you know, for a 37 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: long time now it's a TV sport, you know what 38 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: I mean. I've a sale. The games are great to 39 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: go to with your with your young children, and it's 40 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: a lot of fun. But in the adult world and 41 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: in the gambling world, the last place again whatever finds 42 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: himself is at a football stadium because he's usually watching 43 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: six or seven games at one time, and they just 44 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: don't have the capacity for that at stadiums. So really, 45 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: for a gambler, this was complete normalcy. And uh, it's 46 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: like I said to you earlier, it was good to 47 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: be back, you know, in my right where I belong, 48 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: right on the couch on a Sunday. See, I wonder 49 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: it's and I was looking at the lines for the games, 50 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: and of course I was, I was dabbling a little bit. Yeah, 51 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: But one thing I noticed when the lines came out 52 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: earlier in the week two, when Sunday came about, I 53 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: didn't see much movement like you usually would see. Uh, 54 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: when the money starts going towards the favorite or whatever 55 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: they want to bet. Is that because this was the 56 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: first week, uh, trying to get the rest off and 57 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: get back going or what happened. So I think a 58 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: lot of people have a misconception about the lines, right. 59 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: They think that there's some mathematical expert in the back 60 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: of a book making office somewhere in Brooklyn. You know, 61 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: that's kind of like working with you know, his computers 62 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: and coming up with the line and that's really not 63 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: how it works. You know, the line is actually made 64 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: by by the gambler, So the line is just a 65 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: mirror of public perception. And I think what happened in 66 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: the first week is people didn't really know gamblers, right, 67 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: didn't really know how to judge a home team. You know, 68 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: how many points to give a home team when they're 69 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: making their bets. You know how how normally you take 70 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: a strong team and when they're at home, you know this, 71 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: this makes this is the ingredients for a for a 72 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: big bet, right and uh now without fans and the stadiums, 73 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, and we've seen it happen in basketball as well. 74 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: We we just don't really know, you know, and we 75 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: always say like home field advantage is usually an extra 76 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: three points and then it's about which team is better 77 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: than the other team. But now there really isn't isn't 78 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: that metric going on? So I think what happened is 79 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: in the first week people were kind of like just 80 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: waiting to see, you know, how things work out. And 81 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: now that they have that calculation in their head. From 82 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: week one, we'll see a lot more movement as people 83 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: start to take positions in week two. Um Week two 84 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: usually historically always favors the underdog. And that's because after 85 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: week one, uh, you know, everybody is betting up the favorites, 86 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: and it moves those lines so much that the underdogs 87 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: become a value. Will have to see now that we 88 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: see a lot of teams were able to win on 89 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: the road, uh this in in this week one, and 90 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: how that affects gamblers and their mentality. Well, seeve, this 91 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: is Mike up in Boston. I'm old school like Michael Barr. 92 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: I actually have a pen in my hand, and I 93 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: have yesterday's Boston Globe with the latest line and I 94 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: count seven dogs coverage yesterday? Seven dogs? Is that unusual 95 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: for opening day? It is unusual. Um, it is unusual. 96 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: But um, you know, I think that this is unusual times, 97 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,559 Speaker 1: you know, but gamblers will adjust, you know. And again 98 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: I think that the reason we see that is because 99 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: we didn't see we did We didn't see a lot 100 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: of movement, like you said. So I think that at 101 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: the end of the day, whenever there's an unknown as 102 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: a gambler, as a rule, whenever you're looking at two 103 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: sides and you really don't know which one is better 104 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: with the line, always take the points, right, that's just 105 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: that's just the number one ruling gambling. And a lot 106 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: a lot of gamblers get caught up in these teasers. 107 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: You know, where where are the type of bets where 108 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,559 Speaker 1: they'll get extra points for betting more and more teams. 109 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: And I always say to gamblers, you know what, if 110 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: you think you need an extra six points, maybe you 111 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: should consider betting the other side. So in these unusual times, Steve, 112 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: with all these sports, mean, Thursday was just this wild 113 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,239 Speaker 1: day in sports where you had all these leagues playing 114 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 1: that aren't normally playing. What's the net effective that? And 115 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: what have you seen? Given that? Obviously the NFL for 116 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: all of this is the big enchilada, right, I mean 117 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: that's the that's the sort of the center of gravity 118 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: we know for the media world, but also for the 119 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: betting world. Right. If you're looking at it like a 120 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: pizza pie, right, uh, you know, the NFL represents of 121 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: the pie. There are no gamblers that bet on baseball 122 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: or basketball, but they just take the football season off. 123 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: You know, if you're a sports gamble, you're betting football, 124 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: whether it's college, is actually bigger than the NFL just 125 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: from a menu standpoint, you know, in the NFL, there's 126 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: x amount of games on a Sunday. College is usually 127 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: in a normal college season ten to fifteen times that 128 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: amount um. So you know, with a bigger menu, you 129 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: have a bigger volume. But football is king. After football, 130 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: it gets to you know, March madness. You know, college 131 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: basketball and NBA. You're talking about about of the pie. 132 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: Baseball represent about of the pie. You know, hockeys like 133 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: half of slice. Speaking of college, now, there's talk that 134 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: the Big Ten they had a meeting that they're revisiting 135 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: when they canceled not playing in the fall. Now, all 136 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's like, well, let's see what we're 137 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: going to do now. I haven't voted or anything yet. 138 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: But when a big conference like that starts thinking did 139 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: we jump the gun too quick? Maybe the Pact twelve 140 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: is thinking the same thing. What happens, uh if the 141 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: Big Ten and the Pact twelve come to betting, Well, 142 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's obvious that these players, you know, 143 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: who really drive the decision making right are watching going like, 144 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: wait a second, why aren't we out there? You know, 145 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: and and you know, it's one thing that you know 146 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: in theory to talk about it before the season starts 147 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: when you think everyone's gonna jump on the bandwagon with you. 148 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: But then when you're sitting at home on a Saturday 149 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: and you're watching, you know, all your peers, you know, 150 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 1: competing for the same job you're competing for in the bigs, 151 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, and they're out playing and make a noise 152 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: and you're at home barbecue, and you know what's wrong 153 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: with this picture. So I can totally understand. It's not 154 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: surprising to me at all that some of these players 155 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: have buyer's remorse, you know, in not being out there. 156 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: And um, you know, I think that eventually they'll come 157 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: to the table, and I think that they'll make something 158 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: happen sooner rather than later. Um how that all works out? 159 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's a it's a big tent, and 160 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: there's plenty of room for everybody. So you know, the 161 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: sooner they get started, the better it is for everybody else. 162 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: But me selfishly, as a sports gambler in the sports 163 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: gambling business, you know, I'd kind of like to see 164 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: college football, you know, in March, you know, so like 165 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: I have it, now have it? Then you have college 166 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: football all year round. College football is the most profitable sport, 167 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, in sports gambling, So you know they should 168 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: always be college football as far as I'm concerned, now 169 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: what you just said, college is more profitable than pro football. Absolutely, 170 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: it's just a matter of the games. Well yeah, when 171 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: you have eight games on a Saturday and sixteen on 172 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: a Sunday, you know, it's just it's just a bigger menu, 173 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: and it's just more money bet, more volume bet, absolutely 174 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: more volume bet on college football than NFL. Well, speaking 175 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: of football all year round, Steve, we saw the resurrection 176 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: and then the quick decline of the XFL. There was 177 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: a lot of hoopla around that. Now we think it 178 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: may come back. What's the viability given the interest of 179 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: football in another pro league? And what did you see 180 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: even in that moment where we had pro football in 181 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: the spring? Right, so a thousand dollar better in the 182 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: NFL that a hundred bucks in the in the XFL. Um, 183 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: we saw the XFL completely embrace gambling with the lines, 184 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: you know, right on the screen during the games, um 185 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: with the analysis. But I mean this has never worked before. 186 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: You know, when you have something like the the NFL, 187 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: which is nirvana for gamblers, you know, it's really hard 188 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: to recreate that without without the players, you know what 189 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: I mean. And um uh, look, I think at the 190 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: end of the day, um it's it's going to take 191 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: a sustained effort. I always looked at the XFL as 192 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: an alternative league that could be successful the way some 193 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: minor league baseball is successful in certain towns where there's 194 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: not much entertainment in those towns. And they do a 195 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: real good job of entertaining the folks and the and 196 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: the locals come out and support the minor league team. 197 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: They sell the tickets for ten to fifteen bucks. You know, 198 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: they do great concession numbers. You know, they're doing no 199 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: TV numbers, but it but but it really provides for 200 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: a nice local type of entertainment. I always thought there 201 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: was room for the XFL as kind of an entertainment option. Um. 202 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if they're going to ever compete with 203 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: the NFL in a in a gambling market, but um look, uh, 204 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: the guys behind it now are very skilled at what 205 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: they do. But if they're not going to sustain an 206 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: effort over the course of five to ten years, there's 207 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: no way they're gonna they're gonna hit pay dirt within 208 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: a year or two I know we're gonna talk more 209 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: about online gambling today, but I want to go back 210 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: to a book he wrote back in two thousand seven. 211 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: It was Bets, Drugs and Rock and Roll, The Rise 212 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: and Fall of the World's first Offshore Gambling Empire. And 213 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 1: I go back the first you know, the disclosure here. 214 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: I was a big online poker player back in those days. 215 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: I enjoyed playing poker back then. And everything was going 216 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: fine for us until uh, Senator Bill Frist he inserted 217 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: the unlawful internet gambling enforcement and that, to me started 218 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: the downfall of everything. And you can't comment more on that. Well, 219 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: I mean I got out to Panama in four UM. 220 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: We opened up there. Uh. It was pretty much a 221 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: telephone sports book. There was no internet yet, UM, and 222 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: we were taking bets from about eight to ten thousand 223 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: customers country you know, US wide. Uh. They would call 224 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: into our call center in Panama. UM. I moved the 225 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: operation to Costa Rica in nineties six, actually because because 226 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: they were technical problems in Panama. They didn't have the 227 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,599 Speaker 1: they didn't have the landscape, they didn't have the technology, 228 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't really have the capability and the 229 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: brain power there to really run that kind of operation 230 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: where I found Costa Rica to have it all and 231 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: we kind of laid fiber optics there. We put in 232 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: the western unions, we put in the credit matic credit 233 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: card processing, and then the explosion of the Internet, you know, 234 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: really changed the whole game. And I was looking listening 235 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: full disclosure you talked about full disclosure. I was one 236 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: of the guys that said, oh man, the Internet will 237 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: never work for sports or sports betting. There's no way 238 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: someone's gonna go from getting on the phone and saying 239 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: give me five thousand on a game and having a 240 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: human on the other side saying you're in to like 241 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: clicking a button and going, okay, I trusted by bets 242 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: in you know what I mean. There, there's no way 243 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: these guys are not well. I was wrong, obviously, which 244 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: I am wrong of the time, and that's the nature 245 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: of a gambler. But the reason I was wrong was 246 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: more because the Internet opened up the world to five 247 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: dollar bets. So we look at the online average of 248 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: betting right now in sports, it's fourteen dollars on the NFL, 249 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: that's the average bet and it's even less this year 250 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: because after the pandemic and people being hurt in their pockets, 251 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: you know. There there there's actually more people betting less, right, 252 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: So so the volume of people betting is higher, the 253 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: actual volume in betting is lower. So now that that 254 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: that average bet moves down to about eight or nine 255 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: dollars from fourteen, but still there's a lot of five 256 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: dollar betters in that crowd, right, And those guys never 257 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: even could get a phone number. In the past, you 258 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: had a bet a minimum of a hundred dollars to 259 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: even get a number, whether you're talking about betting offshore 260 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: or you know, like like the traditional way in the street. 261 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: So so now it's a whole different world of betters. 262 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: And that's why we see all these companies coming into 263 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: into business now and we see all their stock prices, 264 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, going through the roof, and why a lot 265 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: of that is speculation, a lot of smart guys that 266 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: think when the real numbers come in after the football season, 267 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: we're going to see a pairback of that of those 268 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: stock prices, because they're all clamoring over the same better, 269 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: which is that ten to fifteen dollar better, the five 270 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: thousand dollar better, the two thousand dollar better, the ten 271 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: thousand dollar better. My God, they're still betting locally with 272 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: their guy who gives them credit. They're not putting money 273 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: up in the real gamblers don't like to pay the 274 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: bill until dinner is over. That's a pretty good lineing, Steve. 275 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: With so many more and more states now making sports 276 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: betting legal, what effect has it had on the foot traffic? 277 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: I mean, if you wanted to bet, you had to 278 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: go to Vegas and walk in there, and you know 279 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: you could go in in June and then get your 280 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: over under on the number of wins at the New 281 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: York Giant. Who are going to get what effective it 282 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: had on foot traffic there? And your business as well 283 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: well in my business to pick business, right, It's great. 284 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: The more the more, the more availability there is for 285 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: for gambling, the more gamblers there are out there, the better. 286 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: I think what legal betting kind of does is it 287 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: acts as a lass leader, you know, it kind of 288 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: gets these younger generational kids, you know, three years old, 289 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: eighteen years old into the game a lot quicker because 290 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: it's a lot harder for an eighteen or nineteen year 291 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: old to find the college bookie, you know what I 292 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: mean than it is to go down to your local 293 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: draft Kings or you know, or or or or pen 294 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: gaming operation and put in a bet. So I do 295 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: think we're bringing in people on board. I also think 296 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: that believe it or not, fantasy daily fantasy football and 297 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: the failure of daily of daily fantasy football actually helped 298 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: sports gambling because you had a lot of these kids, 299 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, doing the daily fantasy And I say kids, 300 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: I'm fifty. Kids to me means like anyone twenty five 301 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: years old that area, that's a kid to me. All Like, 302 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: you know, you had a lot of these younger folks 303 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: that were playing uh, you know, daily fantasy that did 304 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: nothing but lose all season long. They never cashed a 305 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: one ticket. The one great thing about sports gambling, it's 306 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: a fifty fifty sport. So even the worst gamblers are 307 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: cashing usually over the course of a season as many 308 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: tickets as you know, as they lose. Um at the 309 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: end of the day, they pay a little more when 310 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: they lose, so they lose for the year. But it's 311 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: the it's the illusion of winning that's always been the 312 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: best marketing tool for sports gambling. In daily fantasy, there 313 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: is no illusion. You don't win. You never win, You 314 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: hardly ever win. Maybe one out of ten of your 315 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: friends wins. The other nine are losers. And with all 316 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: these losers, you know, if people came running back to 317 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: sports gambling with a vengeance and so, given that we 318 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: are living in a virtual world. Now you've talked a 319 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: little bit about this, Steve, but I want to dig 320 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: a little bit deeper because it is an unusual time. 321 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: We mentioned you know that Vegas, while open, is not 322 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: what it was, is certainly pre pandemic. And obviously the 323 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: world is changing a little bit in terms of where 324 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: you can go physically. What's the net effect to your 325 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: in your opinion on you know, people not being able to, 326 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, take that trip to Vegas or head down 327 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: to Atlantic that like on the sports book specifically, well, 328 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: I think it's been a lot harder on strip clubs 329 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: than sports books, to be honest. But um, you know 330 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: that being that being said, you know, sports gambling was 331 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: always a sport, always a gambling option. That the betting 332 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: part of it merely was the entrance fee to get 333 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: you to watch the game, right so the so so 334 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: so that the action always took place from the beginning 335 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: of time, whether we're talking seventy or today, on the 336 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: television screen, right, and the betting is just what you 337 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: did before the game to get everything ready so that 338 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: you could sit down and watch the game and root, 339 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: you know, whereas blackjack or baccarat or poker, these all 340 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: these all are betting options that take place, you know, 341 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: as you know, the betting is is the entertainment, you 342 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: know what I mean, So you never stop betting. You know, 343 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: there's a bet every minute, about every thirty seconds, you 344 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And that is the entertainment where 345 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: in football the entertainment is was and will always be 346 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: the game itself. Now they're trying to make with live 347 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: betting and all these props, they're trying to make, you know, 348 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: football betting into a slot machine. But that will never happen. 349 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: Um and and again I could be wrong. I've been 350 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: wrong in the past, But from what I've seen, you've 351 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: got about three to five percent of the betting community 352 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: that's actually taking place in the live betting options, you know, 353 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: and the rest of meat potatoes of gamblers are still 354 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: doing it the way they did it in seventy the 355 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: way they've done it up until now, which is they 356 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: make their bets before the game, maybe at halftime, you 357 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: know as well. And then they're watching the game, and 358 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: whether they're watching the game in Vegas or watching it 359 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: in their basement, maybe Joe Biden's watching it in this 360 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: basement or watching it anywhere else. You know. Um, that's 361 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: the same. That's the same way they've done it forever 362 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 1: and um, and so it hasn't really changed much. And 363 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: the fact that there's more options now to get your 364 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: bet down and you're getting your bet down over your phone, 365 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: it's probably just more convenient for gamblers and having to 366 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: take that one time trip to Vegas to get their 367 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: bets in. Because the community that they lived in wasn't 368 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: New York, wasn't Philadelphia, wasn't Miami where there's a bookmaker 369 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: on every corner. They lived maybe in middle of Middle 370 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: America where they were hard pressed to find the bookmaker. 371 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: Now they dial it up on their phone, you know, 372 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: on their computer or wherever they need to and they 373 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: get a bed in the next thing, you know, they're 374 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: in major action. I think again, I think it's been 375 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: a lot harder on traditional casino gambling that it has 376 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: been on sports gambling. Sports gambling is the same as 377 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: it's been since n How long will it take before. Well, 378 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: let's say I'm not the entire nation. I know there 379 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: are some states that will never let it happen. But 380 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: will you see it widespread of online gambling? Well, I 381 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: think we're seeing it because, you know, between the legal 382 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: options in many states. I think about states have it now, 383 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: jurisdictions um and the ease of illegal gambling in the 384 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: states that will never need legal options, like you know, 385 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: it's funny that, you know, Philadelphia, more bookmakers in Philadelphia 386 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: than New York, Miami, and Vegas combined, and yet they 387 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: have penn gaming there and there's plenty still of gamblers 388 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: to go around. So I think that, you know, I 389 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: think that before, I think it is widespread. Now I 390 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: think it is, you know, And and what happens is 391 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: is that you know, first of all, they've never arrested 392 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: a gambler for betting unless he was part of some 393 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: syndicate or some type of organized crime operation. But a 394 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: normal Joe who was bet in a hundred dollars or 395 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: five hundred on a game to this day has never 396 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: been arrested anywhere. It becomes even harder to make those 397 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: prosecutions when the state next to you it's legal you know. 398 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: So it's not like a moral issue, it's just an actual, 399 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: you know, letter of the law issue. So I think 400 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: that as the numbers come in, if the states that 401 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: have made this major bet on sports gambling do well 402 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: and are able to generate the type of revenue that 403 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: they're touting, I I don't think it will be long. 404 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: Maybe within five of years that will see a majority 405 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: of the states not want to see their their their 406 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: citizens run across the border to the neighboring state and 407 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: give their money there. Steve will there will always be 408 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: a place for the local bookmaker. He will never become extinct, 409 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: never become extinct because he gives credit and and and 410 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: credit drives the sports gambling industry. You know. It's that 411 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: it's that Sunday night bailout game, right, You're trying to 412 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: get under your numbers so you don't have to pay 413 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: your man, you know. And and we'll never see big 414 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: corporations that accept credit cards moving into the credit industry 415 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: because they can't exact the type of fear that it 416 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: takes to collect. You know, there's still that that that element. 417 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: You know, guys, guys pay their bookmakers because in their mind, 418 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: they feel like they have to. Guys don't pay you know, 419 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, their credit card companies because they know that 420 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: that all they can do is they have to do 421 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: is pay minimum balances and they'll get a new credit 422 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: card next month, you know, to fill up. So it's 423 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: a whole different animal. And as long as bookmakers are 424 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: able to give credit um and provide that personal service there, 425 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: their businesses haven't been affected whatsoever. You know, again, it's 426 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: not it's not the thousand and the two thousand dollar 427 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: better than the five hundred dollar betters that are running 428 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: to these legal sports books. It's the five dollar, the 429 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: ten dollar, fifteen dollar, a hundred dollar better and those 430 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: both those customers never affected you know, illegal gambling before 431 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: and they won't now. So Steve, last question for you, 432 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: what's the next big moment, the next big catalytic moment 433 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: for the gambling world. I mean, you've seen it over 434 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: the past couple of decades, really, you know, with a 435 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: couple of fits and starts, as you guys, uh, you 436 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: and Michael Barr were talking about earlier. You know, it's 437 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: going up and up and up. What's the next sort 438 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: of accelerant as it were? Well, what I what I'd 439 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: like to see at least and what I think will 440 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: happen is places like Vegas where you have a legal 441 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: betting atmosphere and and uh and the technological ability to 442 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: wire up a stadium so that you know, fans are 443 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: sitting in their seats and they're kind of betting on 444 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, live action, you know, as it's happening at 445 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: the live event. Now I see something like that, I 446 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: think would be really cool and it takes us to 447 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: the next level. Or they're not really doing that, you know, 448 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: necessarily in their home. But if you have fans engage 449 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: and with with with little you know, uh ports next 450 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: to their seat where they're able to actually you know, 451 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: you know, put in their bets right there, you know, 452 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: and and swipe their credit card into their seat, you know. 453 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: I think I think fan engaging live events with gambling, 454 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: you know, is potentially the next the next level. And 455 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: I also see as the next big sport is e sports, 456 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: you know, where you know, the kids that are now kids, 457 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, eighteen, nineteen, seventeen years old when they get 458 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: disposable income in their twenties, you know, you know, five, six, 459 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: seven years from now, and they've been doing the sport 460 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: thing for the last seven eight years. It's they're starting 461 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: to lay the foundation and the groundwork now, but the 462 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: real money won't come into play until these guys that 463 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: are playing, you know, the the e sports and loving 464 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: the sports become you know, uh have had some disposable 465 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: income to start gambling. And we see it. We see 466 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: it happening and in the in those events, you'll see 467 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: events where people go see live competition for the sports 468 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: and bet right there, you know, in the in the 469 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: stadiums on the sports. I think the sports as we 470 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: look over the next ten years, is the biggest growth 471 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: market in all of sports gambling. Sports info dot Com CEO, 472 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: Steve Bowden, you are very kind to come and join us, 473 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: and yes I do. I got my old pen and 474 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: I have my old notebook and I'm going through all 475 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: the lines and it's and I'm looking at it. I'm 476 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: old school. I can't help it that nineteen seventy dude, Steve, 477 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir, appreciate it. It It was my pleasure. Thank 478 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: you for having me. This is the Bloomberg Business of 479 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: Sports podcast. I'm Michael bar along with Mike Lynch and 480 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,959 Speaker 1: Jason Kelly, and we're here each and every Monday, Wednesday, 481 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: and Thursday, exploring the world of money and sports. Join 482 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: us again at the end of the week. We're gonna 483 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: speak with Super Bowl winning coach and NFL analysts Brian Billeck. 484 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio 485 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: around the world and online wherever you get your podcasts.