1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: me Ben, and we're joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: producer Alexis code name Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this the 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Fellow conspiracy realists, 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: longtime listeners and uh newly joined listeners alike. Uh. We 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: often say that you are the most important part of 12 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: the show. That is true, and we like to spend 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: some time once a week sharing the best part of 14 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: the show, your ideas, and your stories with your fellow listeners. 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: We've got some great stuff coming up here. We're gonna 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: do something maybe a little bit different towards the end 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: of this episode, because we talked about this little bit 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: off air. We are on the cusp of I don't 19 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: know about you, guys, but my favorite holiday. As soon 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: as the weather starts to turn, I can hear it, 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, I can feel it, like how you can 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: feel rain on the wind. Halloween is coming, gentlemen, when 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: the when the Hackensacks start yowling. Yes, Halloween is great, 24 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: night baby. That was. It's so it holds up Halloween weird. 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: It's so psychedelic and weird. What do you guys think 26 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: about Hocus Focus. I'm just like watching. I don't have 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: time to watch movies right now, but I'm just gonna 28 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: have horror movies on in the backgrounds as long as 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: I've actually never seen hocus Pocus. It be right back. 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: That was pretty good. Can I give I want to 31 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: give everybody a spoiler alert to do it. If you're 32 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: listening to this season of Thirteen Days of Halloween, just 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: come back. Ben Bolin starred in the first season and 34 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: he wrote too. I think he wrote two stories for 35 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: it to first one. This season he's back as a writer. 36 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: And there's someone it's not a dude. It's not a downgrade. 37 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: We're just making sure everybody gets a chance to say. 38 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: But somebody from the hocus Pocus universe will be featured 39 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: in it and the Sister Act universe. That's too much information, 40 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 1: it's not it's too much information. It's also not Miss 41 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: Lauren Hill, who wasn't sistract too. But I do not 42 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: believe was on camera in Hocus Focus. I'm clear. I'm clear, 43 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: I have not actually seen despite my z sound effects, 44 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: I did not go watch Hocus But wait. We waited 45 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: for like an hour and a half on this call. 46 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: Many guys, stuff came up. I was watching an other things. 47 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: There's a lot of media out there. Were you watching 48 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: squid Game? That is the best thing on Netflix? Right? Yeah, 49 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: it's pretty great. Is it like squids fighting? Is it 50 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: like battle Box but with squids? Yeah? You could say, 51 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, um so, so here's what here's what we'd 52 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: like to do. Now. We ask you, fellow conspiracy realists. 53 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: At the end of every episode we do, we ask 54 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: you to reach out to us to share your stories. 55 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: We have a number of ways to do that. You 56 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: can write us an email where we're conspiracy at I 57 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. You can go to any number 58 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: of social media platforms and find us. You can say 59 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: the right words into a mirror in the dark, or 60 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: you can give us a call directly. As Matt likes 61 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: to say, you can talk to us with your mouth 62 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: uh at our phone number one eight three three st 63 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: d w y T k and I propose, gentlemen, that 64 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: we begin the show with a voicemail today. What do 65 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: you think it? Let's do it, all right? And this 66 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: message comes from Matt. Yes, you, Matt, not me, Matt. 67 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: You Hey guys, Um, Matt ben Um, everybody. I just 68 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: found out something about the Tytler's Circle, the Tytler's cycle, 69 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: and I was wanting you guys to deep dive into that. 70 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: I haven't dove into it too much, but I just 71 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: learned about it a long time listener. Well, I guess, 72 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: not long time. I guess. I don't know, three or 73 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 1: four years. Has that long time? I don't know, But 74 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: I just found out about it and we're in a 75 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: we're not in the good part of it, So you 76 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: guys would dive into that. Um, my name is Matt, 77 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: and you can you can use my name. That's time. Yeah. 78 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for your show and I listened to it daily, 79 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: well weekly, you know that. Thanks for everything you guys do. 80 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: And have a good one. All right. Well, Matt's this 81 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: voicemail from a fellow Matt, one of your name colleagues. Uh, 82 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: it struck you, right, and it sent you off down 83 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: one of my favorite things. A rabbit hole or respecting 84 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: the universe of this show, a badger burrow. Yes, it 85 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: was certainly a badger burrow. And it was delightful to 86 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: have a caller also named Matt. We're not quite up 87 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: there in the echelons of the Bens, but mass pretty great. 88 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: The knolls very unique. Yeah, so unique. He couldn't even 89 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: remember my name. I love it when people write to 90 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: us and they just haven't seen your name before and 91 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: they spell it with a K. There's a whole thread 92 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: on the page I believe about people misspelling my name, 93 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: and I just I cleared it all up. It's spelled 94 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: Q and all Q A N O L L perfect. 95 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: Q is silent, very good, Matt, just speaking to you directly. Now. 96 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: You asked about something called the Titler's Cycle. Now, the 97 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: thing you're going to notice if you do the old 98 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: duck duck go slash, Google, slash, whatever you search for 99 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: on the internet. Uh, for this thing, you need to 100 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: know that it's spelled t y t l e r 101 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: apostrophe s cycle. Uh. The first thing you might hit 102 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: is something called Tyler's Cycle. It's a Wisconsin based motorcycle dealer. 103 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: That's not what we're looking for. But they do have 104 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: a beautiful twenty Ducatti super Legra. I don't know how 105 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: to say it, V four for only a hundred thousand dollars. 106 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: So all right, there you go. Yep, that's it. We're 107 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: all going to fool our money, at least Ducati uh somehow. 108 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: But we uh, that's not what you're looking for. You're 109 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: looking for something that you will find all over the place, 110 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: not often in let's say, widespread the publications of news. 111 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: A lot of times I'm finding this on blogs and 112 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: very specifically leaning usually right leaning websites. Doesn't mean anything necessarily, 113 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: but as we begin to explore it, that's what you 114 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: may find as you and as you begin your own research. 115 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: Oh and we should say that and that that's a 116 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: a number of years ago we did explore this briefly 117 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: because it really pardon the Chris words, really rocked by Yeah, 118 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: what I first learned about it, because you and I 119 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: think you you and I talked about this, right we're 120 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: like looking at the and and we may have heard 121 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: of this before too, like, uh, this is a sobering 122 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: thing to learn about right now. If you've never heard 123 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: of the Titler cycle, it has not been proven by 124 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: the way, that's that we're getting in all this and 125 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap it back around to what we talked 126 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: about I believe last time we mentioned this thing. So 127 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: this is what you need to know. This is a 128 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: supposed cycle that democracies and empires go through as they 129 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: are born until the moment that they die, and then 130 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: they're reborn, and that's supposedly what this is. I'm going 131 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: to read to you what's found on Risley dot com, 132 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: w R I s L e y dot com. They 133 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: have a very tight it's just a kind of a 134 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: text drop and it's got a very simple, almost bullet 135 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: pointed version of the cycle. Here. This isn't exactly what 136 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: is said on every website when this is described, but 137 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: this is the gist. It says the average age of 138 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These 139 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: nations have progressed through this sequence from bondage to spiritual faith, 140 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: spiritual faith to great courage, courage to liberty, liberty to abundance, 141 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: abundance to selfishness, selfishness to apathy, apathy to dependence, dependency, 142 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: back again into bondage. So that's how you can imagine it. 143 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: As a cycle cue the Lion King music. Yes, I'm done. 144 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: That's exactly how much we can play perfect. Yes. And 145 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: this site rizzly dot com, just like almost every site 146 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: you're going to find out there that has this information 147 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: on it, attributes this to Dr Alexander Titler t y 148 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: t l e R. And this site describes him as 149 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: a Scottish professor who wrote a scholarly tone from which 150 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: this concept comes called quote the Athenian Republic, which was 151 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: published shortly before the thirteen American colonies gained independence from Britain. 152 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: In this site tells you to google him to learn more. Now, 153 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: the first thing we have to note is that in 154 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: everything I've looked up, and it's only been a few hours, honestly, 155 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: like just to let you know, in in in full 156 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: truth here, it's only been a few hours of me 157 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: digging through sources and looking for information on this. But 158 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: I did recall our previous conversations that we've had on 159 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: this subject, and I'm seeing the same thing still, this 160 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: cycle and the attribution to this person Alexander or alex 161 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: Tytler lord Wood would house, Yes, appears to be off. 162 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: There appears to be things that are off here. Um. 163 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: If you find this actual person, you can find him 164 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: on Wikipedia, of all places. The name here is Alexander 165 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: Fraser Tytler, Comma Lord Woodhouse Lee or would have Slee. 166 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: However you wish to say that now this person did 167 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: indeed exist. This person was Scottish. They lived in it 168 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: says here on Wikipedia, if you are to trust it, 169 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: seventeen forty seven to eighteen thirteen. Person was a professor 170 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: of history and Roman antiquities Greek antiquities at the University 171 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: of Edinburgh. According to some, I mean actually cited sources 172 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: that it has at the bottom here this person was real. Now, 173 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: whether or not this person actually wrote this thing, this 174 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: publication or tone that uh Risley and another sites called 175 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: the Athenian Republic is in question. It seems as though 176 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: perhaps this person did not write that. If you go 177 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: to one of our standbys and one of these places 178 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: where I always feel a little strange, I feel like 179 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: they want to be the watchman, watching the news and 180 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: other sources online, but I feel like who's watching them? 181 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: You hear me calling you out Snopes. I I like 182 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: what you do, I like your mission, but sometimes I'm 183 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: worried that people will go to you and then stop 184 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: thinking critically about certain things. But anyway, that's fine. That's Matt. 185 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: That's Matt's opinion. This Matt, not that Matt. But what 186 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: they say on Snopes is that there is no record 187 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: of this person Titler having authored a work entitled The 188 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: Fall of the Athenian Republic or the Decline and Fall 189 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: of the Athenian Republic, and the material that's often quoted 190 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: to him in these posts, at least according to Snopes, 191 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: is attributed to other people, or it should be attributed 192 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: to other people, or just it was made up. Parts 193 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 1: of it were made up, with claiming claiming that there 194 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: was an older providence to it as as kind of 195 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: a cheek code for credibility. Yeah, it's also been assigned 196 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: to or attributed to tokfill Um, the French writer. I 197 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: think we should hit the big the big headline though, 198 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: because you beautifully illustrated the cycle. The big headline is 199 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: the argument that democracy is inherently temporary. It is inherently 200 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: a federal and it cannot exist, for one reason or 201 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: another as a sustainable form of government for more than 202 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: a couple of centuries. That's that's like the argument and 203 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: of course, you got a lot of historians in the 204 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: crowd who who are already saying wait, wait, wait, Well 205 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: to that, let us respond, yes, we know. And I 206 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: think that's where you're going with this, matt Um. But 207 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: I would say it's just one note here. Because something 208 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: is misattributed does not necessarily mean it is untrue, right 209 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: the idea at least. Yeah, you're right on there, because 210 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: you may have noticed that cycle as described, feels like 211 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: something familiar. It feels like something you may be experiencing 212 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: or watching happening, depending on your worldview. Um, it feels right. 213 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: It's one of these things. I was having a conversation 214 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: randomly on clubhouse with some people about UFOs, and a 215 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: topic of conversation came up about about which sources to 216 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: trust and what what do you choose to believe when 217 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: you read something, And one of the main themes in 218 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: that conversation was that a person said they go with 219 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: what their heart tells them is true, right, like I 220 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: feel that it's real. Well, well, this is a common thing, 221 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of us do it. I 222 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: know I do it sometimes where if something feels right 223 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: to me, I will go down that path and explore 224 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: it further because I am now skeptical of my own 225 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: feelings about things. Trust but verified, bro trust but verify. Yeah, 226 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: that's a tough way to live, man, if we we 227 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: live it now every day, I think many of us, 228 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: I know, I know people on this on this zoom 229 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: right now do it just stinks because this thing, this 230 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: Tytler cycle, feels very much real. Like if you look around, 231 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: you can see society in many ways looking and feeling 232 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: like it's on the verge of collapse or it's on 233 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: a downward trend right um. And a lot of that 234 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: has to do with with economy cycles that are real 235 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: and you can you can look up tons of scholarly 236 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: information on economic cycles and how these things really do function, 237 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: how you can you can show them when there's moments 238 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: of growth, there's only one way to go down a 239 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: little bit to have more growth. A lot of this 240 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: has to do with capitalism, with resources that are available, 241 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: with you know, jobs, There's there's so many things that 242 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: kind of go in together to make up whether or 243 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: not a society and our country is on is on 244 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: the rise or on decline. It's a really big topic 245 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: against so many variables, so much to consider. But right now, 246 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: in this moment, as we watch the world burned to 247 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: some extent and flood and you know, as resource wars continue, 248 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: as all these things happen, it feels like, yeah, we 249 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: might be towards the end. And this is illustrated in 250 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna just give you this article. You can read 251 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: it on your own. It's from medium dot com. It 252 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: was posted March five, I believe, of this year by 253 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: a person named Charles Stephen. The title is Rapid American 254 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: Decline imminent as it reaches the end of the society cycle. 255 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: This person cites the same cycle that's written out here. 256 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: This article cites the same cycles, referring to the same 257 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: cycle we're talking about here, the Tyler cycle. They do 258 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: a great job of linking to actual news of what's 259 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: happening and kind of connecting that back to moments in 260 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: the cycle. It's not perfect. It's definitely like someone observing 261 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: and making things fit to a paradigm, like having having 262 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: all your cutouts on the table and then just seeing 263 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: what over here fits into those pieces. Um. It's a 264 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: fascinating read. The thing I want to connect it back 265 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: to Ben is this m I he study that we've 266 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: mentioned before in the past. You can read about this 267 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: on Vice. There's a Vice article titled M I. T 268 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: predicted in nineteen seventy two that society will collapse this century, 269 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: meaning the one we're in right now. New research shows 270 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: we're on schedule. This was posted by the fees ap 271 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: med This was July and is mentioning an old book. 272 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: It's an old standby that we like to we like 273 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: to name check every once in a while here on 274 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: the show Limits to Growth. This is a book that 275 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: came out in nineteen seventy two. There was a nineteen 276 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: seventy It was about nineteen seventy, I want to say, 277 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: and then they made a thirty year update that was 278 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,440 Speaker 1: published in two thousand four. And both of these things 279 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: are looking at economic growth, resource usage, population growth, all 280 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: of these statistics that we mentioned here that go into 281 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: measuring a society, a a civilization, a species even in 282 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,239 Speaker 1: fact our species, and how well we're doing and how 283 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: much longer we have in this kind of happy zone 284 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: of people still have jobs, sometimes, people still make some money, 285 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: people still have some food, although that doesn't apply across 286 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: the board. Right this is really looking it's almost an 287 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: American or Western centric view very much. So. Yeah, so 288 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: this is as you said, Matt, this is a a 289 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: huge topic and with so many variables at play, it's 290 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: important to note that people can either consciously or unconsciously 291 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: tend to prioritize the variables that, when included, will most 292 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: closely reflect their own inherent assumptions or worldview. That's that's 293 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: something everybody does, as as you pointed out earlier. The 294 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: interesting thing though, is that we're talking about the decline 295 00:18:55,320 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: of any human civilization. It's very rare for that declined 296 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: to be something that we would consider rapid on an 297 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: individual level. You know, um worlds tend to go out 298 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: with not a bang, but with a whimper. You know, 299 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: from the from the ancient days of early humanity to 300 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: maybe the modern day. You know, there's not a there's 301 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: not a switch that someone flips that makes civilization non viable. 302 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: But also, I think it's a good time to reassess 303 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: the Titler cycle whoever actually came up with the idea, 304 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: and maybe we can do maybe we can do another 305 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: episode on it, because what's changed, what the original authors 306 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: purported or real didn't predict, was global communication systems and 307 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: how those would affect the cycle, whether they mitigate it 308 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: or exacerbated, and the money still out on what that 309 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: effect will be. So I'm I'm massively interested in this. 310 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: You know, as we talked before off and on air, 311 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: I had had some dealings with folks that were attempting 312 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: to build programs to predict the future. And I don't 313 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: know how close they got. I really don't. Sometimes it 314 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,959 Speaker 1: bugs me, but they they this kind of simulation theory 315 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: and this kind of application can give progress towards proving, 316 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: revising or disproving this cycle, this claimed cycle. And and 317 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: I love that you pointed out that there are some 318 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: generalities in here that need to be that need to 319 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: be addressed. Most modern interpretations correct me if I'm wrong. 320 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: Most modern interpretations point to the skyrocketing rise in inequality. Correct, 321 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: Like that's what they say, Like that's the modern version 322 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: of what's happening. And look at what happened with France 323 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: and blah blah blah. Yeah, in inequality is a major 324 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: factor in most of the places I've found. I think 325 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: it is the Times Standard as well as common Sense 326 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: Government dot com. A lot of them point to to that. 327 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: But then you know, it's it's everything, though, it's also 328 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: just overproduction resources that are falling short, like a lot 329 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: of the rare earth elements that are falling short of 330 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: what we you know, need them to be in order 331 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: to continue growth. Helium. Helium, that's a big, big one. 332 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: It's so important. Can you imagine if that's how we 333 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: go down? Helium, that's how civilization goes down. Can you 334 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: imagine thousands and thousands of years civilization making slow and 335 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: sometimes painful progress, and it's the helium, that's the goddamn 336 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: helium that is such a bummer. Yeah, So there's a 337 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: lot more to learn about this. I'd love to explore 338 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: it further with you guys. Thank you Matt for sharing 339 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: that with us. I hope this was helpful in some way. 340 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: For now, we'll take a quick break here, a word 341 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we'll be back with more messages 342 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: from you. Not Matt, not, you already had yours. Matt 343 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: at the Tyler. It's constant cycling by our motor cycles 344 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin and we're cycles Genius, and we're back with 345 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: another message from you. That's right, you, the public, the 346 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: conspiracy realists of the world. Today's message comes from Evan 347 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: a k a. Dean jan Um, and he's writing in 348 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,959 Speaker 1: regards to a strange news article that I brought to 349 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: the table in our last episode. I believe about an 350 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: absurdly gigantic statue of the Chinese War god Um, an 351 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: actual historical figure that was deified posthumously named Guan. You 352 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: and guys, you'll recall Uh. This was specifically referring to 353 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: the fact that the statue itself was very, very very expensive, 354 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: something in the neighborhood of twenty four million American dollars 355 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: UM and because of some regional politics that we were 356 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 1: not fully able to unpack. Um, there's a call to 357 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: move the statue UH near miles away UM at the 358 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: incredibly hefty price tag of around twenty million American dollars UH, 359 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: so somewhere in the neighborhood of four million dollars, less 360 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: than what the statue cost to build in the first place. 361 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: UM and Uh. Evan had some really interesting insight around why, UM, 362 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: this would be such a priority, that this money would 363 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: be spent in this way when the Chinese government criticized 364 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: the statue in the first place for being a waste 365 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: of money. UM, here we go, Hello, guys, I listen 366 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: to your recent listener mail, and I wanted to chime 367 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: in about the figure of Guan You that you mentioned 368 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: as some of the significant aspects of that figure which 369 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: come to my mind, we're not mentioned in your as 370 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: always excellent, riveting and relevant coverage of the topic, that 371 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: is very very kind. Um. I'd also like to share 372 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: some of the knowledge and stories that I accumulated over 373 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: nearly a decade living and working in China and steady 374 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: Chinese language and culture. That's exactly the kind of stuff 375 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: we needed, because honestly, ben Um, you'll recall you were 376 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: looking into this, you know, kind of in real time, UM, 377 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of the sources were Chinese language newspapers, which, 378 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: as we know, you know, the Chinese media is somewhat biased, 379 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: to say the least, and so it was a little 380 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: bit tough to wrap our heads around why such a 381 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: fuss was being made. There was some Chinese building organizations 382 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,719 Speaker 1: or I guess some agencies that said that it was 383 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: done illegally because of height limitations in the area UM 384 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: for buildings, and then the folks that actually built it 385 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: claimed that it wasn't a building so it didn't count. Um, 386 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: but you put forth Ben that there might have been 387 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: some kind of regional politics that maybe we weren't quite 388 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: getting clued into UM, and that does appear to be 389 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: the case. So here we go. Guan You may be 390 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: controversial now because he's a figure bound up in regionalism 391 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: UM as he came to prominence during the Warring States 392 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: period of the collapse of the Han dynasty. He served 393 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: a state that was mostly based in central and southern 394 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: China against Northern Powers of Way and Yuan States. UH. 395 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: You can see this today and travels throughout China. In 396 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: certain regions and mostly the south, including Hong Kong, you 397 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: will see small shrines or altars with red candle shaped 398 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: lights and statuary of guan Yu, whereas these altars are 399 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: extremely uncommon in northern China where I used to live. 400 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: If a home or business does have this kind of altar, 401 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: it usually wouldn't contain guan U statuary. If you see 402 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: Chinese owned or Chinese diaspora Cambodian, Chinese, Loud Chinese, etcetera. 403 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: Also have these businesses operating in your area which have 404 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: these shrines. I used to see many in Hong Kong 405 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: immigrant dominated areas of San Francisco. You can have a 406 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: pretty good guest that they are not Northerners. Moreover, he 407 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: is most associated with the bonds that he formed with 408 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: two other famous warrior statesman figures, uh Liu Bai and 409 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: Shang Fei Uh in that they pledged a bond of brotherhood, 410 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: agreed to support each other in battle and politics, and 411 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 1: also pledged to die on the same day. This kind 412 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: of bond plus one use martial associations make him a 413 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: popular figure not only with law enforcement um as we 414 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: did mention in the episode, but also ironically with organized 415 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: crime or any group which is meant to operate on 416 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: interpersonal loyalty and even vaguely marshal brotherhood. Been you brought 417 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: that up to very very sharp, uh that this is 418 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: a possibility. There is a kind of iconography that if 419 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: his famous weapon is depicted held in one hand, it 420 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: signifies his righteous aspect police, or if in the other hand, 421 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: it signifies the other aspect mafia, although I think this 422 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: is likely more of a movie trope. So given that 423 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: he associated with Central and Southern Chinese regionalism and to 424 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: a certain extent, with organized crime, it would make sense 425 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: that he would be unpopular at a time of strong 426 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: central control emanating from Beijing, which is not only the 427 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: apital but also the major metropolis of the north. Although 428 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: I want to note it could just be someone in 429 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,719 Speaker 1: a bureaucratic position of power being totally capricious. A friend 430 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: worked for a large German architecture firm, and he had 431 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: some stories about really bizarre occurrences in the planning and 432 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: building phases of projects. E g. Someone whose corporation wants 433 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: to curry favor with a well connected feng Shui enthusiast 434 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: UH invites that person to consult with the architecture firm. 435 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: Said person recommends that all plans for the building be 436 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 1: rotated by two degrees in such and such an orientation, 437 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: and low it must be done, regardless of the architect 438 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: or funders thoughts on the matter. My question is who 439 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: precisely has to pay for the relocation, as there is 440 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: not commonly centrally available funds for things like this. The 441 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: two thousand Olympics, for example, was the fiasco because Beijing 442 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: municipality was counting on allocation of central government funds, which 443 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: were at a relatively late stage denied. This would probably 444 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: elucidate the motivation for this more than anything. Um. What 445 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: you said about local residents claiming the statue is an 446 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: eyesore is totally American and not relevant at all to China. 447 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: What locals think about anything mostly doesn't matter unless they 448 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: happen to have a whole lot of pull i e. 449 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: High position and an important bureau. And there isn't the 450 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: same sense of eye sores in a country dominated almost 451 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: entirely by huge brutalist concrete Soviet style buildings which loom 452 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: disheartening lee over everything. Um. Yeah, there's a There's a 453 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: little bit more, but I think that's a great place 454 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: to stop and pick up the conversation. Ben. I thought 455 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: this was really uh supported a lot of your theories 456 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: quite significantly. You brought up the regionalism aspect and also 457 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: potential ties to organized crime, whether in funding or in perception. Um, 458 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: what do you think about evans um read on this? Uh? 459 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: You know, Evan, I greatly appreciated this letter as well, 460 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: and I think you're a good writer too. I hope 461 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: you you hear this. There are some things towards the 462 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: end of the letter that I regretfully do have to 463 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,959 Speaker 1: agree with, and I hope your friends are safe and 464 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: I hope this letter finds you or this show finds 465 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: you safe as well. Nice Luxotica shout out. We've got 466 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: to get to those folks at some point. Um. Yeah, 467 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: I I kept looking at this too, and I contacted 468 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: some friends of mine who are Chinese nationals to help 469 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: me with some of the with some of the reporting, 470 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: because I can like muddle through some of the stuff, 471 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: but if you want to fully understand, to get a 472 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: read on a higher level of this language than I do. 473 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: And the fascinating thing here to me is the universality 474 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: of of weird, absurd, surreal situations that humans can find 475 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: themselves in. You know, you're you're at a large architecture firm. 476 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: This happens, by the way, um, not just with large statues, 477 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: but this happens with almost any large mission, large, multiple 478 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: human endeavor. Like if you've ever worked production on a film, 479 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: you've seen producers just arbitrarily changed some stuff because it 480 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: was a great day for him, it was a bad 481 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: day for him, or they're nine year old was like, Dad, 482 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: I love sharks, right, and Sharknado literally was creative. Matt, 483 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: what's going on? I'm so sorry. I just had an epiphany. 484 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: I am so sorry. I'm in this message Evan. Evan 485 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: is mentioning Guan Yu Lou Bay and and I was like, man, 486 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: I know these characters. Why do I know these characters? 487 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: Lighting game? Lou Bay hit it for me. It's Dynasty Warriors. 488 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys ever played that? Whoa 489 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: it all I was? I learned? Was I learning about 490 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 1: like some actual thing that happened when those games, It's 491 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: like solicit realization was very similar, right, it was all 492 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: about different real like Roman historical figures and stuff. A 493 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: lot of those games had like, you know, a hidden 494 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: learning opportunities in them, I think, But that was just 495 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: like a beat them up. I'm just gonna mash all 496 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: these buttons. I'm gonna oh. It was a fighting game. 497 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: It was like a history though. You're sorry, I I 498 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: just can't believe it. I was playing those games as 499 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: a younger person kid, and just like I thought they 500 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: were all made up. I don't know. I guess it's fascinating. 501 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: It is it is. And you know, I think it's 502 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: always fun to dive into those like the stories of 503 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: the purportage stories there because most most good stories, most 504 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: solid works of fiction have a structure based in truth, 505 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, even really out there stuff like Donald barthel 506 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: may or m or Hayes. They they they start somewhere 507 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: before they get really weird. But with with this case, 508 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: with Evans excellent letter. Here one thing that I was 509 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: also interested in. First, yes, thank you for sending this letter, 510 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: because it is important for people, especially in the West, 511 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: to get stories, to get reporting from people who have 512 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: firsthand experience. The mainstream news, which I know it sounds 513 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: like a controversial phrase, but for better or worse, tends 514 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: to follow a kind of lockstep narrative based on a 515 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: country or based on whatever current movement is popular in 516 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: the national zeitgeist, especially here in the U. S. So. So, 517 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: one thing that might surprise people is that organized crime 518 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: in China, which which you mentioned Evan, organized crime in 519 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: China works a little bit differently than the organized crime 520 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: you might think of here in the States, with stuff 521 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: like Capone and The Godfather and oh the Sopranos. There 522 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: it is there, it is okay, Well, there is a 523 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: less family oriented and more like syndicate kind of oriented. Yeah, 524 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: it's a good question. I mean, in both cases, they're 525 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: definitely organizations and they're doing crime. But in China we're 526 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: talking about what are called the Triads t R, I, A, D. 527 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: And these organizations have expanded throughout the Chinese diaspora, including 528 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: expanding into the United States. It's interesting because there's there 529 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: are distinct distinct aspects by reaching and from what I understand, 530 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: they function a lot like secret societies, like real life 531 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,239 Speaker 1: secret societies. Well, the Triad they're talking about, I mean 532 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: it has ancient roots, like a minute dates back to 533 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: um the I believe seventeenth century where it was, you know, 534 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: one of three of the most prominent secret societies, and 535 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: it was established in Macau, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and China, 536 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: so it already had kind of like international branches. But 537 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: it continues to the Spain and so kind of the 538 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: same way that maybe in the West, UM stories about 539 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: the Yuckuza might confuse people. Uh you know when you 540 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: hear like, oh, these guys that are Japanese mobsters are 541 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: out giving away Halloween candy or they're helping earthquake victims. 542 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: They're doing things that we wouldn't associate maybe with criminal acts. 543 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,280 Speaker 1: So I I would say that I can completely see 544 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: I can completely see corruption as part of this, I 545 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: can also, I don't know the things that would lead 546 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: to the statue actually being moved. Like Evan pointed out, 547 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of they're kind of hard to discern 548 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: unless you're on the inside. To be very clear, no 549 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: one and this show, at least at this point, is 550 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: saying that a triad was involved. Just saying they're around, 551 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: that's all I'm I'm saying they're around. I think, I 552 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: think to your point, Ban and to Evan's point, it 553 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: would certainly take off someone with a whole lot of 554 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: pull to make a move like this happen, you know 555 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: what I mean, since it's not truly it seems like 556 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: the line you know about historic preservation or about it 557 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: ruining the vibe of the area in some way. Um, 558 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: according to Evan, you know who lived there long enough 559 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: I think to know it feels like that's not as 560 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: much of a a mover, you know, especially since I 561 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: mean people saw it when it was getting built. They 562 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: don't build a statue like that in the day. It 563 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: seems like some kind of power player, whether in an 564 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: agency or perhaps with organized crime. Um, you know, but 565 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: the organized crime people would like it, right isn't that 566 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: the deal? So yeah, what this is the last big 567 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: point I have from this, and I think Evan already 568 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: Evan articulated this very well. So you have to remember whenever, 569 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: like whenever you hear people talking about a country like 570 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: Afghanistan or even talking about a country like um Greece 571 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: or something like that from the American perspective, from the 572 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: international perspective, the US is very much a child with 573 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: dangerous toys. It's been around a little more than two years. 574 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: And if you're talking about something like the Middle Kingdom, 575 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, the predecessor of the predecessors of modern China 576 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: literally date back in the mythology, and we talked about 577 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: that on the show. So for for a very very 578 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: long time prior to the Communist Revolution, like very long time, 579 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: different forces, governing forces. We're trying to create a unified 580 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,439 Speaker 1: Middle Kingdom with a central seat of power. And that's 581 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: something that that's happening today. Like, uh, put the economic 582 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: ideology and all all that stuff which is important to 583 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: the side for a second and realized, like there is 584 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 1: a reason that the government of China has like spends 585 00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: so much time and blood and treasure try into create 586 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: a more what they would say, unified or harmimonious society. 587 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: So maybe, to Evin's point, maybe this regionalism is something 588 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: that is seen as a possible long term threat to 589 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: the status quo. But if that's the case, I'm thinking 590 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: out loud here, if that's the case, then why does 591 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,919 Speaker 1: moving it a few miles matter? You know what I mean? 592 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: Like you still would have the problem, would you not. Yeah, 593 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: that's the part that's so strange to me. And I 594 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: think what you know really made the story catch my 595 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: eye is it's being moved so close, like to spend 596 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: that much money, and again we don't know where that 597 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: money is coming from. Specifically, I would say some pretty 598 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: powerful forces would have to be at play, and it 599 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: almost feels like a flex, you know, like to say, 600 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: you know, we're just gonna move it on down the 601 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: road at the at the bill of you know, twenty 602 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: million dollars, I don't know that. What do you think? 603 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 1: I think? So, I don't have anything to add. Guys, 604 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: you just to get an emulator version of Dynasty Warrior. 605 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: That's where your heads are. I think there's probably an update. 606 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: There's always a new version. There's a Dynasty Warriors nine. 607 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: It's a boy. See. Then there's Samurai Warriors. Now I 608 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: know there are a couple other different ones like that Warriors. Three. Yeah, 609 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna realized that this the genre of these games 610 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: is called hacken slash's. I have never heard that term 611 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: until I was just looking into these, Like Ninja Gaiden 612 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: is considered a hacken slash game. They're literally hundreds of 613 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: thousands of enemies and you do the same thing to 614 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: all of them. I love. Yeah, just like a brawler. 615 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: Is it a side scroll kind of brawler type of 616 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: like like Dragon person elevated view? Maybe I think you 617 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: can do it on Fallow. I don't know. I think 618 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: follows first person. But but yeah. One of the coolest 619 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: things about this letter is, in my opinion, that we're 620 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: hearing in depth again from somebody who has actually visited 621 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: the place. If you spend time in China, love to 622 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: hear about. If you spend time in any country that 623 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: you feel is unfamiliar to the West, and you have 624 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: a story you would like to share, then please yes 625 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: send it to us. UM. We do read every email 626 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: we get. We follow up on this and we hope 627 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: you agree that it's important UM for everyone. Conspiracy realist, skeptic, 628 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: what have you to be more aware of real life. 629 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: In other parts of the world, there's a group of 630 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: like a triad group in New York City according to 631 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: l oc dot gov, called the Ghost Shadows. The names Okay, 632 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this part and this is just my opinion, man, 633 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: but the names are super cool. I'm not that's not 634 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 1: condoning organized crime. Nobody send us that email. But the 635 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: names are really cool. Right, we can see we can 636 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: agree on that. Agreed, the Flying Dragons, I'll join, let's go, 637 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: i know. And then other people in the West, you've 638 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 1: got stuff where it's like, oh, we're the burn Bum 639 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: Boys or whatever. It's like try harder, you know. I 640 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 1: made up Burnum Boys. Uh. It sounds like a good 641 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: bluegrass band. They should be on Prairie Home Companion. Oh wait, 642 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: that's canceled. Now it's called Live from Here, and we're 643 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: not live from here or anywhere. Um. We are a podcast, 644 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: of course. So that means we have to have an 645 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: ad break, and we're gonna do that now. We'll be 646 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: back with more listener mail. And we have returned. Like 647 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: those villains and fairy tales, someone shows up at the 648 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: court and says I have a gift for the child. 649 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: It's true. It's it's Halloween, it's on the way, Oh, 650 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 1: the most wonderful time of the year. We're gonna do 651 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: something a little bit differently to end, uh, to close 652 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: the segment this week, and that is a bit of 653 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: story time. We spend so much time asking you for 654 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: your stories. We've received fascinating tales, some of which we 655 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: ourselves are at a loss to explain. Right. Stories have 656 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: seen strange things in the woods or strange things in 657 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: the sky. And over the years we've received a lot 658 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: of amazing, amazing ghost stories. And we're not you know, 659 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,879 Speaker 1: we're not here to say whether or not these are 660 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 1: true because we were not there. We haven't investigated these things. 661 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: And um, you may have heard in past episodes our 662 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: collective opinion on the people who pretend to investigate ghosts. Uh. So, 663 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,359 Speaker 1: with that being said, I thought, not an old doc, 664 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: if you all are okay with it, that we could 665 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 1: just share a couple of spooky stories from our listeners. Hell, yes, 666 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: all right, here we go. Alien Gibson girl, you wrote 667 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: to us to say the following, and uh, Doc, big favor, 668 00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: we get some spooky atmospheric music. Jeez, not that spooky. 669 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: We're too spook, Doc, She's gonna be so mad. You're 670 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: gonna be so mad at us for asking like this, 671 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: just throwing sild cues. But yes, this music you're hearing 672 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,879 Speaker 1: is perfect. Here we go. Alien Gibson girl says, since 673 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: October is coming up, I have a possible ghost story 674 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: for you guys that happened when I was around eleven 675 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: years old. I'm going to preface that during this time, 676 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: I was a very skeptical kid, where I tried to 677 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: debunk a lot of scary things that would bump in 678 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: the night, and I was a fan of Scooby Doo. 679 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: But this experience was something else and has made me 680 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 1: question if this was me and my brother's collective imaginations 681 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: or it was at my grandmother's house in Missouri. My 682 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: brother nine at the time and I would spend our 683 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: summer vacation there and stay in the guest bedroom. We 684 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,240 Speaker 1: were in a large queen size bed, with me facing 685 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: out to a door to the parlor room and my 686 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: brother on the other side. One night, after our grandmother 687 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: put us into bed, I was looking out into the 688 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: inky blackness of the parlor room, a cream colored, glowing 689 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: figure of a woman materialized at the door frame. I 690 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: remember staring intensely at this object, studying what I just saw. 691 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,360 Speaker 1: It was a woman with a big floppy hat and 692 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: a long lace dress, around six ft tall, with her 693 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: neck bent to one side. The figure of the woman 694 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: was softly glowing, but not causing any shadows, nor was 695 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: lighting up the doorway frame. I nudged my brother and said, hey, 696 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: did you see that? And he whimpered and said yeah. 697 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: We immediately started screaming, Grandma, and I'm sure you were 698 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: screaming here. As soon as we started screaming, the figure 699 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 1: collapsed upon itself and it looked like it zipped away. 700 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: She grandmother, we assume, comes running in and we were 701 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: both saying we saw a ghost, and we were told 702 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: we just had a bad nightmare. I'm thirty one. I 703 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: would say I'm just as skeptical of ghosts and spirits, 704 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: but I am still baffled by what we experience. It 705 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: is one to say if I was the only one 706 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: to witness it, that it would just be my imagination. 707 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,920 Speaker 1: But my brother saw it at the same time as well. 708 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: He remembers it too. I did some research on the 709 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: house was built in nineteen ten. I looked up past 710 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,759 Speaker 1: owners of the house and found no evidence of death 711 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: in the house being built in checks out because if 712 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,799 Speaker 1: you google Gibson Girl, the style looks a lot like 713 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: the figure that me and my brother saw. The only 714 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: explanation is that there was a window in the parlor 715 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: and maybe light was shown through the lace curtains and 716 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: somehow stopped in the doorway, maybe humidity, or maybe me 717 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 1: and my brother were visited by an extra terrestrial Gibson Girl. 718 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 1: I look forward to hearing you guys take a crack 719 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 1: at it. Maybe you all can think of something I 720 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: did not consider. You may use your my story. If 721 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: you guys like a funny name, you can call me 722 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: haunted by alien Gibson Girl, so that that is an account, 723 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: and alien Gibson Girl are haunted by Excuse me asked 724 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: us specifically to think about this, think about this report, 725 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: So maybe we can unpack a little bit here when 726 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: you think so, like like we've done with the reports 727 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: of UMM previous reports of unidentified flying objects and sightings. UM. So, 728 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: first things first, two people, right, two people seeing the 729 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: same thing at the same time. Let's put their age 730 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,280 Speaker 1: aside for a moment. And let's also put aside the 731 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: the treacherous nature of memory over time. Um, but I 732 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 1: think she's right. It does make it more difficult to 733 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: dismiss something entirely his imagination if someone else has seen it, right, Yeah, well, 734 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: when you've got an immediate second witness, like simultaneous, come on, 735 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: something happened. And the question is, and I love I 736 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,880 Speaker 1: love that our gives and girl, which is kind of 737 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: weird to say. I've just looked up when it gives 738 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: you girl. We were told to google it and I did, 739 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,760 Speaker 1: and it is. It's this weird maybe just fashion ideal. 740 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: I don't know how I would even like. Is it 741 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: like the girls, like one of those kind of deals. 742 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 1: It's like nineteen twentieth centuries, like mental Flaws called them 743 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:29,839 Speaker 1: the Kardashians, the early nineteen aha fashion. Yes, I see, 744 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 1: like flowing gowns, big old buns, and um, you know, 745 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: probably very sharp, pointy hairpins. I would imagine. Man, these 746 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: would have been probably likely the type of women that 747 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,839 Speaker 1: would have rebelled against mashers on the on the you know, 748 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 1: street cars. I don't even know what that is used. 749 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: His weapons masters were like the proto kind of you know, 750 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 1: stalker creepers. You know, that's just exactly called the mashers. 751 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: Got it. Well, I'm glad that our Gibson girl, uh 752 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: he is already thinking about things like lace light through lace. 753 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,359 Speaker 1: That to me seems like something that maybe I've never 754 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: experienced before. I've never seen maybe a white lace or 755 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: a cream colored lace have light shine shown through it 756 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,360 Speaker 1: and then seeing it somewhere else on a wall or 757 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 1: in a doorway. Um, I can imagine that being strange. Yeah, 758 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: I like that. We're thinking critically here. This is a 759 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 1: little tricky because so much time has passed, right, twenty 760 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 1: years or so passed, and at this point, you know, 761 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,840 Speaker 1: we see due diligence done researching the house, researching events 762 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: that could have occurred there. Um, we also we have 763 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,320 Speaker 1: some missing pieces, like the very skeptical. Another very skeptical 764 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:55,040 Speaker 1: question would be, uh, did you and your brother um 765 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 1: do something earlier in the day that may have made 766 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,800 Speaker 1: an impression on you, like saw some historic exhibits, such 767 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: that your minds were subconsciously primed to define and recognize 768 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: a pattern from earlier through the light. That's possible. It's 769 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,280 Speaker 1: it's possible that happens with people. UM, check out Darren 770 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,799 Speaker 1: Brown's work on priming people and which is you know, controversial, 771 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: but he's he's using it for good. And then the 772 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:28,160 Speaker 1: other question is priming aside? Human beings have evolved to 773 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 1: recognize things, and in many many things, living or non 774 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: the human mind seeks to see itself, which I know 775 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:43,080 Speaker 1: sounds overly philosophic and hallmarking, but it's just like a 776 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 1: fancy way of talking about confirmation bias, right, You like, 777 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 1: you tend to seek out stuff that you already agree with, 778 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,040 Speaker 1: or patterns that you already recognize, and you want to 779 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 1: impart meaning upon them, Like hearing a song on the 780 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,880 Speaker 1: radio after you've just been thinking about that song and 781 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: then thinking there's some kind of you know, crazy connection 782 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: with the averse or something, when likely it's just you 783 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: know what, coincidence, right, or you just don't recognize all 784 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,920 Speaker 1: the times when it didn't work out, that's exactly better. 785 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: Mind hoff the frequency illusion as possible. Of course, our 786 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,440 Speaker 1: our nuts and bolts answer, if it all possible, would 787 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,480 Speaker 1: be to go back to that house and try to 788 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 1: recreate as as closely as you can the variables involved. UM, 789 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,160 Speaker 1: and I I don't know what the circumstances would be 790 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,840 Speaker 1: or what the best way to do that would be, 791 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 1: but that that would be our first step. And in 792 00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,040 Speaker 1: this case, we're we're unpacking it a little bit simply 793 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:45,080 Speaker 1: because Haunted by a g G asked us to um. 794 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,279 Speaker 1: But I will say that people just want to tell 795 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 1: us a scary story. I read them with great relish. 796 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: And Matt, we've had a few bangers come through on 797 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:58,800 Speaker 1: the telephone line as well. Oh we've got spooky stuff 798 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 1: all around the bangers left and right, smashers, crashers, I 799 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,840 Speaker 1: don't know what, haberdashers, and of course flashers, and of 800 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,840 Speaker 1: course they're always coming at the end. And it's a 801 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,520 Speaker 1: weird thing to happen to your like three your ears. 802 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,319 Speaker 1: But it's all good. So this, uh, this is a 803 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: going to be a shorter third act for us. It's 804 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,360 Speaker 1: just kind of kicking off the Halloween season. But if 805 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: you are interested, fellow conspiracy realist and Matt Noel doc 806 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,000 Speaker 1: if if you all are interested as well, I think 807 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,800 Speaker 1: it could be fun to share some of these stories 808 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,680 Speaker 1: in the lead up to Halloween. And maybe it's just 809 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,920 Speaker 1: something we read towards the end. Um maybe we do 810 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 1: an episode once we get enough spooky stories from a 811 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,880 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist, maybe we do an episode where we 812 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,000 Speaker 1: three are just sharing those stories. You know, that would 813 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: be a lot of fun, would gather around the campfire. Yes, 814 00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:01,600 Speaker 1: so please please send us your ghost story ones that 815 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,040 Speaker 1: you're happy to have us read aloud because that's what 816 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: we'll do. Or call us and leave your ghost story 817 00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:15,120 Speaker 1: over voicemail. I hereby make it my mission to get 818 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 1: through the voicemails that still sit in front of me 819 00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,360 Speaker 1: since September one. We will get there. You've got problems 820 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,440 Speaker 1: and a voicemail is yeah, I can Uh. You know 821 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:28,920 Speaker 1: it's gonna be tough for me to get in there, 822 00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,280 Speaker 1: but I can maybe do it. You are not allowed 823 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:36,759 Speaker 1: to MR on a secret project. I literally have a 824 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,680 Speaker 1: calendar block on one day that says s td W 825 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,200 Speaker 1: I t K voicemails, and something inevitably always comes up 826 00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 1: and I have to use that time. But I'm gonna 827 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,440 Speaker 1: commit to uh to pitching in with the voicemail tagging 828 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,160 Speaker 1: as well. Ben, you think nothing of it, Matt, I 829 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: got your back bang ring. I suppose oh rufio a right. 830 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 1: That guy was at Atlanta Comic consigning autographs. The line 831 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: was very short. I felt kind of bad for him, 832 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,600 Speaker 1: but I really like that character. And people just don't 833 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: appreciate art is what it is. They don't. But with that, 834 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,359 Speaker 1: when you when you do, give us a call at 835 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 1: our number one eight three three st d w y 836 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,400 Speaker 1: t K. You'll have three minutes. They're yours, uh and 837 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,680 Speaker 1: we would love to hear your story if you uh. 838 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: If you have a story that needs more than three minutes, 839 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,320 Speaker 1: don't feel like you have to keep calling the same number. 840 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,680 Speaker 1: You can write it out in full, just the way Haunted. 841 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:37,120 Speaker 1: Buy a g G did. You can attach links and 842 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,799 Speaker 1: your photographs if you've got them, or you know, if 843 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:41,920 Speaker 1: you have a longer audio file and you just want 844 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,319 Speaker 1: to record the full tail and then send it to 845 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,280 Speaker 1: us via email, that's great too. As always, we cannot 846 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,880 Speaker 1: wait to hear from you. We're gearing up through the 847 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,680 Speaker 1: most wonderful time of the year, Halloween, and if you 848 00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,719 Speaker 1: want to be part of our month fish long celebration, 849 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,400 Speaker 1: we we love you to join the crew. I have 850 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 1: to send us a good old fashioned email where we 851 00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,800 Speaker 1: are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Who's got a 852 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 1: spooky laugh? Ah ah ah and then and then the 853 00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:47,760 Speaker 1: clown titters. That's terrify, all right, So we're stopping stuff 854 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,680 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Is a production of 855 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,720 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 856 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,680 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 857 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.