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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're celebrating

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Speaker 1: the arrival of our new producer, Bianca Hillier. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: January thirteenth, and on today's show, we welcome in former

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Speaker 1: WNBA player Sonya Chase and former MNBA Players Association Executive

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Speaker 1: director Tamika Trimalio. We'll get insight on the behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes of the WNBACBA negotiations, the revenue sharing specifics that

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Speaker 1: are keeping the two sides apart, and how it is

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Speaker 1: that forty two years after male players earned a share

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Speaker 1: of gross revenue, women are still fighting for the same.

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Speaker 1: Plus a Denver homecoming College Hoops delivers streaks and slides

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Speaker 1: and a reminder that you're never too young to start

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Speaker 1: manifesting your dreams. It's all coming up right after this

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Speaker 1: welcome back slices. Here's what you need to know today.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with the NWSL and the news that US

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Speaker 1: women's national team captain Lindsay Heaps formerly ze Horan, has

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Speaker 1: signed with the expansion side Denver sum at FC. Heaps

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Speaker 1: will continue her current contract with French club ol Leon

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Speaker 1: and join Denver in June, midway through the team's inaugural

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Speaker 1: NWSL season. This marks a long awaited homecoming for Heaps,

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Speaker 1: a Colorado native who's played most of her professional career

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Speaker 1: in Europe. In twenty twelve, at age eighteen, she became

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Speaker 1: the first US women's player to skip college and turn

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Speaker 1: pro straight out of high school, signing with French club

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Speaker 1: Parisain Germain. In twenty sixteen, she returned to the US

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Speaker 1: to play with the NWSL's Portland Thorns. This was back

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Speaker 1: during the era when US Soccer required players to sign

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Speaker 1: with NWSL teams, but then she returned to France in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, signing with Oe Leon. In a statement,

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Speaker 1: Heap said of coming back to the NWSL, quote, I'm

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Speaker 1: incredibly excited to come home to Colorado and join Denver

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Speaker 1: sum At FC. This club represents something special, not just

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Speaker 1: for the league, but for this community and for the

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Speaker 1: next generation of players growing up here.

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Speaker 2: End quote.

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Speaker 1: We're pretty pumped about this because we have to keep

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Speaker 1: watching Alissa Thomas and Naomi Gurma ball out from Afar

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Speaker 1: and we're preparing to say goodbye to at another star

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Speaker 1: at Sam Coffee. So it's nice to welcome an American

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Speaker 1: legend back to the NWSL, this time to college hoops

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Speaker 1: where there was so much action over the weekend, we

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Speaker 1: needed a whole day to process it. Let's start with

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Speaker 1: number twelve LSU seventy sixty five upset over number two

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Speaker 1: Texas on Sunday, marking the longhorns first loss of the season.

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Speaker 1: Competing in front of a sold out crowd of thirteen

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Speaker 1: thy two hundred on the LSU campus, the Tigers had

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Speaker 1: five players score in double digits and out rebounded the

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Speaker 1: Longhorns nineteen to eleven, just days after LSU assistant coach

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Speaker 1: Bob Starkey delivered an Angel Reese me bound shirt to

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Speaker 1: every player in their locker. It was a crucial win

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Speaker 1: for the Tigers after they fell to sec fos, Kentucky

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Speaker 1: and Vanderbilt to start conference play, and per ESPN research,

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Speaker 1: it's also the first time LSU has beaten an AP

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Speaker 1: Top two team since two thousand and eight, back when

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Speaker 1: the Tigers defeated UNC in the NCAA Elite Eight. It's

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Speaker 1: also the first time since twenty twenty three LSU has defeated.

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Speaker 2: An AP Top five opponent.

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Speaker 1: That was back when the Tigers defeated Iowa to win

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Speaker 1: the National Championship. With Texas now at eighteen and one

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Speaker 1: on the year. There are just three remaining undefeated D

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Speaker 1: one teams left, number one Yukon, number seven Vanderbilt, and

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Speaker 1: number seventeen Texas Tech. More Hoops LSU was not the

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Speaker 1: only team to punch above its weight on Sunday. Other

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Speaker 1: upsets included number nineteen Ohio State defeating number eight Maryland

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Speaker 1: eighty nine seventy six, unranked Perdue defeating number twenty three

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Speaker 1: Washington seventy eight seventy two unranked West Virginia, top in

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Speaker 1: number eleven Iowa State eighty three to seventy, marking the

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Speaker 1: Cyclone's third straight loss, and unranked Minnesota defeating number twenty

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Speaker 1: one USC sixty three sixty two, continuing the Trojans struggles

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Speaker 1: in this Juju liss season. Meantime, it was good news

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Speaker 1: for Notre Dame, who found themselves out of the top

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Speaker 1: twenty five for the first time since twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: Last week, they made a statement with their dominant seventy

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Speaker 1: three to fifty win over number twenty two North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: The latest College Hoops ap pole reflected the aforementioned upsets

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Speaker 1: and chaos. Yukon is holden steady in the number one spot,

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Speaker 1: but South Cahairline and uclayer out to number two and

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Speaker 1: three respectively, and Texas is lost.

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Speaker 2: To LSU cost them two spots in the poll.

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Speaker 1: The Longhorns now sit at number four, while LSU climbed

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Speaker 1: all the way from twelfth to sixth thanks to the win.

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Speaker 1: Oklahoma fell the furthest this week, from fifth all the

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Speaker 1: way down to thirteenth after losses to Ole Miss and Kentucky.

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Speaker 1: We'll link to the full ap Top twenty five in

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Speaker 1: the show notes to Unrivaled. During yesterday's episode, we told

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Speaker 1: you about Kelsey Plum matching the Unrivaled record of thirty

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Speaker 1: eight points at a single game, a mark shared by

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Speaker 1: Nafisa Collier and Chelsea Gray as well, and we hope

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Speaker 1: no one printed out new record books because on Sunday night,

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Speaker 1: Deerica Hamby broke that mark, putting up forty points to

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Speaker 1: lead Vinyl BC to their first win of the season

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Speaker 1: eighty nine sixty six over Hive BC to the snow

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Speaker 1: and more specifically, the World of Moguls, where skiers navigate

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Speaker 1: bumps and throw down big tricks, all will being scored

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Speaker 1: on time, form and skill of all the US teams

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Speaker 1: for the upcoming Milan Courtina Games, the women's moguls team

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Speaker 1: might just be the toughest to make, and this weekend's

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Speaker 1: World Cup Style in valsank Holm, Canada showed why. On Sunday,

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Speaker 1: Americans swept the podium in the dual moguls event, with

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Speaker 1: Jalen Kaff winning the competition, followed by Elizabeth Lumley and

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Speaker 1: Tess Johnson. Their teammate Olivia Giaccio finished just off the

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Speaker 1: podium in fourth. One day earlier, it was Johnson and

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Speaker 1: Giaccio on the podium behind Aussi Jakara Anthony, who plays

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Speaker 1: first in the traditional moguls competition. The US qualified to

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Speaker 1: fill the maximum four spots and women's moguls for the

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Speaker 1: upcoming Games. Kauf has already been nominated to the team,

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Speaker 1: while the other three spots will be confirmed after this

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Speaker 1: weekend's World Cup stop at Waterville Valley in New Hampshire. Finally,

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Speaker 1: in college hockey, the Women's Bean Pop, the four team

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Speaker 1: women's hockey tournament featuring Boston's best squads, gets underway this

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Speaker 1: afternoon at Walter Brown Arena. The first semi final features

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Speaker 1: Boston College versus Harvard at four to thirty pm. Eastern,

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Speaker 1: followed by Northeastern versus Boston University at seven thirty. The

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Speaker 1: winners will meet in next week's championship game at t

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Speaker 1: D Garden, the home of the Boston Bruins and Celtics,

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Speaker 1: and organizers are hoping to break the all time US

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Speaker 1: Women's hockey at time tendance record with that one, and

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Speaker 1: you can help East Coast Slices. We'll link to the

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Speaker 1: ticket website in the show notes for those of you

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Speaker 1: in the Boston area if you want to attend, and

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Speaker 1: if you can't make it to the Garden. The game's

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Speaker 1: layer locally on Nessen and nationally on ESPN Plus. Speaking

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Speaker 1: to Boston slices, we want to introduce you to the

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Speaker 1: woman that's turning us from little Citrus back into big Citrus.

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Speaker 1: Alex and I are so excited to welcome in Bianca Bianka.

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Speaker 1: Get in here with them, Hey, Sarah, Okay, So, first

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Speaker 1: of all, Bianca not Bianca. That's going to take some

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Speaker 1: getting used to. Is there a reason for this unique pronunciation?

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Speaker 3: My parents were born, born and raised in South Africa,

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Speaker 3: and I was born in Australia, so that's just the

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Speaker 3: way the name is pronounced and growing up whenever I

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Speaker 3: had a professor or teacher from there, from England, even

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Speaker 3: they pronounced it Bianca, so I.

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Speaker 2: Think it's just an accent thing. Yeah. Wait, hold on,

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Speaker 2: do you have citizenship in Australia?

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Speaker 4: I do.

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Speaker 5: I do.

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Speaker 2: I've never been more jealous of anyone in my life.

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Speaker 1: It's a good one to have reasons. Well, I would

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Speaker 1: like literally anything right now. Australia is one of the

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Speaker 1: I love Australia. Have you been there a lot?

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Speaker 3: Not a lot, but I've been a couple times since

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Speaker 3: I moved here, which was when I was an infant.

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Speaker 3: My family moved to Ohio, which is where I was raised.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a good place to go if you

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Speaker 3: want to get basically as far away as possible.

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Speaker 1: And I made it to South Africa for the first

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Speaker 1: time in September of last year.

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Speaker 2: Have you been there much?

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Speaker 3: A couple of times.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful, Yeah, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Cape Town's like when everyone raved about it, I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's so great about it? And then I got there

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, well this is the most incredible city ever.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely well, welcome to the team.

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Speaker 1: You act carefully, I don't know ten seconds to tell

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Speaker 1: us your entire life story after you moved to Ohio.

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Speaker 5: Hit it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, moved to Ohio, stayed there through college, went to

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Speaker 3: Ohio University, Go Bobcats, went to school for journalism. Have

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Speaker 3: been a journalist ever since. I've been covering sports for

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Speaker 3: the past six or seven years.

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Speaker 4: There's six and a half.

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Speaker 3: I should probably say to not get into that six

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Speaker 3: to seven mess.

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Speaker 2: Look at that, but she's worried about everyone at home

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Speaker 2: going six.

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Speaker 4: To seven exactly.

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Speaker 3: I thought that you were clarifying for the purpose of

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Speaker 3: making sure that you were being a good journalist and

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Speaker 3: not round and up or down. But no, no, I

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Speaker 3: don't want to get into that mess.

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Speaker 4: That's the reason.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but have been covering global sports and really psyched

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Speaker 3: to be here. Favorite teams is It's it's tough, but

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Speaker 3: I will get in the game. I will say my

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Speaker 3: favorite w team is the Liberty. But I'm really excited

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Speaker 3: about Sandy Brundella up in Toronto, so that's going to

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Speaker 3: be super exciting. Also a big Casey Current fan. But

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Speaker 3: living in Boston, I'm going to keep my heart open.

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Speaker 3: It's been quite a couple of years here watching this

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Speaker 3: team get off the ground, and we're still waiting obviously

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Speaker 3: for a few key detas, but that'll be great. And

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Speaker 3: then I'm a marathon runner, so I love distance running,

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Speaker 3: track and field. Yes, that's that's my personal sport of choice.

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Speaker 1: Cool, Oh, I love all of this Boston legacy.

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Speaker 2: Might be your team. Listen. We allow side pieces here at.

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Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain, and we understand that it's

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Speaker 1: even harder to pick just one team and women's sports

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Speaker 1: where people are generally likable and we're run of rooting

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Speaker 1: for everyone totally, so we'll allow it, will allow. Well,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the mix. We're so excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bit concerned about you and Alex being

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Speaker 1: in Boston or close to Boston and how East Coast

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Speaker 1: bias will attempt to take over yet another piece of

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Speaker 1: the journalistic arena. But I am going to hold strong

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Speaker 1: for the Midwest and the West and everywhere else in

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Speaker 1: the country that y'all will try to erase with your

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Speaker 1: East Coast time zones and otherwise.

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Speaker 3: I've spent twenty plus years in the Midwest, so count

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Speaker 3: me as a Midwesterner and okay, yeah, maybe I'll just

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Speaker 3: start adopting West Coast teams like maybe I'll just be

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Speaker 3: an l Sparks person from now on, try to hold

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Speaker 3: it down.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I should switch to the Valkyries.

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Speaker 5: Actually, I was.

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Speaker 1: Gonna say, I don't know if that's the one I

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Speaker 1: would pick, but yeah, we'll see, we'll see.

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Speaker 3: Maybe.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Bianca.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for restoring us to big Citrus status. Little

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Speaker 1: Citrus was a lot of fun, but it was also

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Speaker 1: a lot of work.

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Speaker 2: So we're looking forward to.

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Speaker 1: Piling our responsibilities onto you on day one.

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Speaker 2: Welcome.

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Speaker 3: I'm ready.

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Speaker 4: I'm so ready when.

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Speaker 1: We come back to Mika and Sonia join us to

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Speaker 1: talk all things WNBACBA negotiations.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now.

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Speaker 1: She's the former executive director of the NBA Players Association

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Speaker 1: and a former Deloitte exec who was named one of

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Speaker 1: Washington's one hundred and fifty most Powerful Women in twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen and twenty twenty one by Washingtonian Magazine. A Mount

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Speaker 1: Saint Mary's grad she earned her law degree from Maryland

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Speaker 1: and an MBA from the University of Baltimore. She's now

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Speaker 1: a managing director at Secretariat, a global expert services and

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Speaker 1: litigation consulting firm. She threw it back to her disco

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Speaker 1: days and slayed a gold sequence suit to celebrate fifty

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Speaker 1: five last year.

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Speaker 2: It's Tamika Tremalio. Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Tamika, thank you very much, Thank you for having us

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Speaker 4: with her.

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Speaker 1: She's a former WNBA player who started out her career

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Speaker 1: with the Charlotte Sting, one of the league's original eight teams,

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Speaker 1: finished her career with the Minnesota Links, and played off

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Speaker 1: season ball in ten countries, including Greece, Turkey, and China.

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Speaker 1: A Marilyn grad, she's the founder, president and CEO of

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Speaker 1: the nonprofit Chase Your Dreams Academy and an associate director

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Speaker 1: at Secretariat. If she's not working, she's probably at a

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Speaker 1: Mystics game. It's Sonya Chase Hi, Sonya.

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Speaker 5: Hey, Sarah. Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Thank you guys for joining me.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to talk about these ongoing CBA negotiations between

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Speaker 1: the WNBA and the Players Association, negotiations that have just

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Speaker 1: blown past a third deadline last Friday. Both sides now

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Speaker 1: in status quo mode, so they're operating under the guidelines

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Speaker 1: of the now expired previous CBA and trying to get

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Speaker 1: things done so we can have a season.

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Speaker 2: Please.

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Speaker 1: And I want to start Sonya with the WNBA players

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Speaker 1: announcing over a year and a half ago that they

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Speaker 1: were opting out of the previous CBA October of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four. So we should have had plenty of time

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Speaker 1: to get this done, and instead we're now staring down

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Speaker 1: what should be the start of the league calendar. A

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Speaker 1: lack of a new deal is now threatening to push

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Speaker 1: back qualifying offers free agency negotiations. It feels like they

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Speaker 1: might need the pressure of a delayed or lost season

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Speaker 1: to actually get them to find some common ground. Which

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Speaker 1: side do you think is more negatively impacted if they

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Speaker 1: do end up having a work stoppage.

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Speaker 5: What a great question, Sarah to start off with. I

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Speaker 5: have to kind of just, I guess set the groundwork

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Speaker 5: to say, as a former player, I do understand the

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Speaker 5: urgency just in general right and as a business executive though,

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Speaker 5: I also understand the complexity and you have those two

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Speaker 5: things working there, and I think the player's desire for

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Speaker 5: revenue sharing and structural equity is valid and it's forward thinking.

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Speaker 5: I think the league's responsibility for ensuring long term financial

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Speaker 5: stability is also equally real, and so I think both

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Speaker 5: perspectives are essential and this is not about just one

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Speaker 5: side winning, right, but about really ensuring shared growth. And

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Speaker 5: I've said that throughout this whole process, and I think

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Speaker 5: true progress will come from three things. Collaboration, creativity, and transparency.

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Speaker 5: And Tamik and I we talk about that pretty much

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Speaker 5: all the time in the office.

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Speaker 1: Transparency is such an interesting one for those of us

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Speaker 1: trying to cover this because there is so little transparency

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Speaker 1: in terms of who's negotiating, who's on the other side

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Speaker 1: of the table, and so much of the economic realities

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Speaker 1: that we're not privy to. So with that in mind,

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Speaker 1: to me, GOD actually like your perspective because I want

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Speaker 1: to better understand the behind the scenes of the sides

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Speaker 1: that are working to get this new deal done. And

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Speaker 1: you're the perfect person to speak on it because you've

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Speaker 1: been there. You were hired by the WNBPA to assist

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Speaker 1: with the last CBA negotiations back in twenty twenty. What

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Speaker 1: sense did you get of how the NBA and Adam

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Speaker 1: Silver and the WNBA and Kathy Engelbert worked together to

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Speaker 1: represent the league side.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so really great question, And I think you know,

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Speaker 4: first of all, I love that you started out with

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Speaker 4: I just want to piggyback on Sonia's comments. Yes, it

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Speaker 4: was October of twenty twenty four, so we all knew

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Speaker 4: that this was coming. Let's start there, right. This is

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Speaker 4: no surprise to anyone. What is a surprise, however, is

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Speaker 4: that we are where we are right that January ninth

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Speaker 4: came and went and we still don't have resolution to

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Speaker 4: all of this. And so to answer your question specifically,

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Speaker 4: you know, when we were at the negotiating table in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty which, as you know, so much has happened

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Speaker 4: that has changed this, which is precisely why in October

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Speaker 4: of twenty twenty four they said, wait a minute, we're

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Speaker 4: doing so well here, We're going to have to look

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Speaker 4: at this and sort of figure out what we should

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Speaker 4: be doing so that we're all sort of getting a

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Speaker 4: piece of this growing pie.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: That's what negotiation is about, is how do we all

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Speaker 4: get a portion of this? So, yes, obviously Kathy was

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Speaker 4: at the table, Terry Jackson was at the table, you know,

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Speaker 4: all of whom are just incredible female leaders trying I'm certain,

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Speaker 4: to all do the right thing. There were occasions where

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Speaker 4: you know, sort of Adam would come in and you know,

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Speaker 4: have some discussions but in general this is something that

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Speaker 4: is handled by Kathy and Terry specifically as leaders of

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Speaker 4: their respective organizations.

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Speaker 1: So in most leagues, the commissioner is hired by and

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Speaker 1: answers to the owners in the league there. As you know,

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Speaker 1: my twenty years or whatever in this business, I've had

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Speaker 1: so many conversations about someone like Roger Goodell getting paid

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Speaker 1: massive sums of money to sort of take the slings

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Speaker 1: and arrows of the public so that he can represent

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Speaker 1: the best interests of the owners and their negotiations.

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Speaker 2: With the WNBA.

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Speaker 1: Kathy answers to owners, but also reports to Adam Silver.

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Speaker 1: So is Adam Silver ultimately the one that leads the

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Speaker 1: intentions of the w and by default, so many of

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Speaker 1: the NBA owners who were involved as well in these negotiations.

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Speaker 4: You know, Sarah, it's a great question, but I think

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Speaker 4: to be quite honest, you know, as you know, Kathy

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Speaker 4: was the CEO and her own right at Deloitte, for

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Speaker 4: which both Sonya and I had worked with, and so

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Speaker 4: while I would certainly i'd be clear that she was

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Speaker 4: actually engaged with Adam, I think that the decisions are

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Speaker 4: being made by her, you know, I think that she

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Speaker 4: is at the helm and really leading this. Certainly she

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Speaker 4: is seeking the advice of many people, including Adam in

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Speaker 4: terms of the overall decisions, including the owners. But I

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Speaker 4: would think that this is something that she is really

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Speaker 4: leading and directing for certain and.

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Speaker 1: Then not hamstrung by Silver and the NBA, because I

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Speaker 1: think that's the concern sometimes without the transparency of the financials,

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Speaker 1: is whether the NBA is using the WNBA as it

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Speaker 1: means by which to bring in financial security to that side,

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Speaker 1: and then they're publicly saying that WNBA is losing money

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Speaker 1: or not financially soluble in all these things so that

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Speaker 1: they can give the players less money and still bring

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Speaker 1: in these incredible TV revenues and other things that are

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Speaker 1: sort of vaguely split between the two entities as far

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Speaker 1: as the public is concerned. Right, because we don't have

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Speaker 1: those financials, do you think she's hamstrung at all by

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Speaker 1: his desire to benefit both sides?

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Speaker 4: First of all, we are all being pulled in a

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Speaker 4: million different directions, right, and certainly at the time of negotiation,

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Speaker 4: she has to have she does have some ownership to

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Speaker 4: the players, she does have some ownership to the league,

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Speaker 4: she does have some ownership to the owners themselves. Kathy's

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Speaker 4: background is audit, right, Let's be very clear, So she

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Speaker 4: understands what it means to be transparent, She understands the

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Speaker 4: questions that are being asked. She certainly u zderstands the

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Speaker 4: difference between gross revenue and net revenue, right, and so

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Speaker 4: there there is nothing that's you know, this is a

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Speaker 4: lack of like making sure that that information is being

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Speaker 4: clear to the players who need to make the right decision.

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Speaker 4: So when Sonya started by saying transparency is one of

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Speaker 4: the issues, it clearly is. And the fact that it

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Speaker 4: hasn't been when that's what they've been asking for for

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Speaker 4: the last year and a half really surprises me that

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Speaker 4: as we sit here today that we're still in the

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Speaker 4: same situation.

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Speaker 1: Okay, last question on this, just so I have clarity.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Kathy or do you know that

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Speaker 1: Kathy has her own budget discretion that she is personally

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Speaker 1: allowed to sign off on, or how is that tied

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Speaker 1: to whether the NBA and the about sixty percent of

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Speaker 1: ownership in the w is tied up to NBA owners

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Speaker 1: either through that sixteen percent equity share that was sold

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Speaker 1: off or through their investment and purchase of teams. Do

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Speaker 1: they then have control over the final say because of

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Speaker 1: their percentage of leadership.

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't think they have controlled that's for certain,

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Speaker 4: that's not the case given their percentage, But they absolutely

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Speaker 4: have a say in how things are being done. So yes,

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Speaker 4: she is leading, Yes she is, you know, determining what

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Speaker 4: to go back to say to the players, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: But I think that's just good governance, right that she

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Speaker 4: would have to go back to her board, that you

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Speaker 4: have to go back to the league. But you know,

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Speaker 4: for certain, I think she is leading these negotiations, but

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Speaker 4: she absolutely has to be accountable to all of the parties.

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Speaker 1: It's complicated, It's more complicated than the average negotiation, Sonya.

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Speaker 1: And you know, one of the fundamental disagreements between the

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Speaker 1: two sides seems to be whether or not the players

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Speaker 1: still need to sacrifice their own wealth in order to

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Speaker 1: ensure league stability and survival. You played in the very

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Speaker 1: first WNBA season. You saw the beginnings of this league,

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Speaker 1: and it was about establishing a foundation, figuring out how

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Speaker 1: to stay in business and survive. But twenty nine years later,

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Speaker 1: the WNBA is not in survival mode. Teams are valued

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Speaker 1: at four hundred five hundred million dollars. There's a two

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Speaker 1: point two billion dollar media deal that starts this year.

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Speaker 1: How do you view the leverage of the players negotiating

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Speaker 1: now in this moment versus when the league started and

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Speaker 1: you were playing.

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Speaker 5: I have to go back to what I've been saying

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Speaker 5: about this whole thing of going from survival mode from

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Speaker 5: when I played to what we say strategy mode. Right, Obviously,

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Speaker 5: as you mentioned, when I played, the league was so different.

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Speaker 5: This was the early years of the W proven the

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Speaker 5: league could exist, not yet negotiating or leveraging, not even

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Speaker 5: thinking about right, using that players often work second jobs.

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Speaker 5: You know, we were overseas, We were just to make

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Speaker 5: ends meet in so many different ways outside of the W.

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Speaker 5: The focus I thought was at that time was keeping

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Speaker 5: the doors open, not redefining what success could look like.

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Speaker 5: I think also the foundation was critical in terms of

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Speaker 5: how it allowed today's players to negotiate from a position

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Speaker 5: of strength. But as we talk about again, from you know,

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Speaker 5: survival mode to strategy mode, I think the WS has

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Speaker 5: reached I think a new level of visibility in sponsorship

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Speaker 5: and investment, and I think players today like myself are

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Speaker 5: seen as business women, right, they've grown up with the

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Speaker 5: NIL rights and social platforms and brand power. I will

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Speaker 5: say I did not necessarily grow up with the NIL,

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Speaker 5: but I have become a business woman to understand what

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Speaker 5: that means. Right, So if I'm in a room and

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Speaker 5: I'm with other business folks, I'm understanding how to negotiate.

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Speaker 5: And I think strategy mode means ensuring player compensation, league expansion,

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Speaker 5: and like you said, media value moved together and not separately.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Tamika, you mentioned the revenue sharing. That

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Speaker 1: everyone needs to understand difference between gross and net and

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Speaker 1: this has been the biggest sticking point between the League

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Speaker 1: and the PA, according to all reports. ESPNS Ramona Shelburne

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Speaker 1: reported the union wants about thirty percent of gross revenue.

438
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 1: The league is offering about seventy percent of net revenue,

439
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: which is revenue minus fixed costs things like travel.

440
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 2: And operating expenses.

441
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,199
Speaker 1: So the league's version would mean sharing about twenty one

442
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: to twenty eight million dollars. The Union's version means sharing

443
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: about ninety to one hundred and twenty million dollars. That

444
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: is a big difference. Now, I just want to tell

445
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: people that the NBA introduced the first revenue sharing plan

446
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: of its kind in team sports, and that was back

447
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three. There's a CBA that gave players

448
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 1: fifty three percent of gross revenue starting with the eighty

449
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: four eighty five season, and NBA revenue in eighty four

450
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 1: was actually very similar to WNBA revenue in twenty twenty

451
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: two to twenty three. But if the WNBA players were

452
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 1: paid like NBA players all the way back in nineteen

453
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: eighty four, they'd be making approximately three times what they

454
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: do currently. So clearly there's a disconnect. Why is it

455
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: that forty two years after the men earned a share

456
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: of gross revenue, the league expects women to settle for

457
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: net revenue.

458
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 4: That is funny, and I love the way that you

459
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 4: positioned it, right, because it is absurd by all accounts, Right,

460
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 4: that just doesn't make logical sense. And we are to

461
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 4: the point that Sonya mentioned before, very sophisticated women that

462
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 4: are playing in the WNBA, and they recognize that that

463
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 4: doesn't make sense because essentially, what's happening, and we've already

464
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 4: seen it happen over this last year, right as they

465
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 4: prepared for the new media deal, they spent a lot

466
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 4: of money making sure from an expense perspective, they were

467
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 4: where they needed to be to actually reap the benefits

468
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 4: of this deal. All of those expenses that they incurred

469
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 4: that reaped the later benefit. They had no say it

470
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 4: how that was actually being done, but what it did

471
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 4: mean is that they weren't going to actually be able

472
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 4: to participate in revenue share because they weren't going to

473
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 4: be profitable. If you now, why would the WNBA expect

474
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 4: the women to agree to something that is going to

475
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 4: say that it's going to be based on profitability going

476
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 4: on in the future when they have said that they

477
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 4: aren't profitable, Who would in their right mind enter into

478
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 4: any agreement like that. That just doesn't make sense. So

479
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 4: what they're saying is, hey, let's do gross revenue, because

480
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 4: if we do gross revenue, we're starting at a point

481
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 4: where we're not leaving it in your hands to make

482
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 4: the decisions on the spend because that's going to directly

483
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 4: impact us. Let's be very clear, at any point in time,

484
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 4: you could decide that you're gonna I'm going to use

485
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 4: something incredibly absurd open an amusement park and encounter expenses

486
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 4: related to that, and therefore that means that you receive nothing.

487
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 4: You have complete control of the cost. You could decide

488
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 4: to pay coach ten million dollars and then that reduces

489
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 4: what actually is available to be split amongst the players.

490
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 4: And they don't want to leave that in the hands

491
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 4: of the individual teams to make those decisions. They've seen

492
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 4: what's happened when they have done that. So it really

493
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 4: is starting from a place that just logically doesn't make

494
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 4: any sense.

495
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: Right be in it together, where the amount that you're

496
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: spending to grow impacts everyone, so that there's an intention

497
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: about what you're spending on growth, and also everyone benefits

498
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: from the result of that spend, which is what we're

499
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 1: seeing across the WNBA the last couple of years, which

500
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: is really incredible exponential growth, you know, Sonya, and I

501
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: want to stick with the numbers quickly, and I mentioned

502
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: this on the show before, but a Nobel Prize winning

503
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 1: economist Claudia Golden crunched the numbers in the WNBA on

504
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: player salaries and in the NBA as well, using broadcast revenue,

505
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 1: attendance data other metrics, and she estimated that the average

506
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: WNBA salary should be somewhere about a third to a

507
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: fourth of the average NBA salary, but it's actually an

508
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: eightieth Okay, So your secretariat colleague also broke down some

509
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: salary numbers based just on the new TV deals for

510
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: the two leagues, and he wrote in a memo quote,

511
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: the NBA and WNBA just negotiated media deals in which

512
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: the value of the men's league content was thirty four

513
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: and a half times out of the women's league. But

514
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: the men are paid in total almost two hundred and

515
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: eighty six times as much as the women. So WNBA

516
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: players current salaries are undervalued relative to WNBA media rits

517
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: by a factor of eight. Okay, Well, acknowledge that the

518
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: second calculation doesn't account ticket sales, merchandising, things that bring

519
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: in more money to the NBA. But even if you

520
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 1: factor that in one eightieth or two hundred and eighty

521
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: six times, those are sort of unfathomable numbers.

522
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 4: So is there a.

523
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: Reasonable excuse that you can see in these negotiations for

524
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: why the men would still make so much more than

525
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: the women? What do you think the NBA slash WNBA

526
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: side is offering up as to why those gaps would

527
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: be something that the players could agree to.

528
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 5: This isn't just about the numbers per se. Right, it

529
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 5: is about that, but I think in addition to that,

530
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 5: in steering up in that pot, it's also about professional

531
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 5: dignity and retention, right, ensuring top athletes see the WNBA

532
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 5: as a full time, longtime career, not just as a

533
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 5: seasonal pursuit. There's a reason why this is becoming such

534
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 5: a big conversation because there's other things like the professional

535
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 5: dignity and the retention, And the league doesn't want the

536
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 5: players to play in any other league. They just want

537
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 5: them to focus on this, But then they don't want

538
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 5: to necessarily take them to the point where the number

539
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 5: should be. So how can you then regulate what other

540
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 5: players or what the players are decided to do in

541
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 5: the off season.

542
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tamika, you've been in the room for these battles,

543
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: both on the NBA side when you were running the

544
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: NBA Players Association, but also in those twenty twenty WNBA negotiations.

545
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: So what do you think, Kathy Engelbert Adam Silver The

546
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: league folks are saying right now in defense of WNBA

547
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: players not having the same financial relationship with their.

548
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 2: League that the men have had with their league for decades.

549
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 4: So essentially, what I think is happening. Where the pressure

550
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 4: perhaps is coming from is a little bit on the

551
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 4: ownership side as well, right, because the reality is, what

552
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 4: I have heard the league to say is that we're

553
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 4: going to have seven hundred million dollars in losses if

554
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 4: we increase the salary cap to ten million dollars.

555
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 3: Right.

556
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 4: The reality is, we all know that that's not one

557
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 4: hundred percent accurate. Right. What's happening is the owners are

558
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 4: concerned about their delution, right, the fact that they believe

559
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 4: we should be getting all of the gains as a

560
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 4: result of this windfall that we have from our expansion.

561
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 4: The w the players are saying, no, we should be

562
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 4: sharing in that too. That should be basketball related income,

563
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 4: just like it would be if we were in the NBA. Right. So,

564
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 4: I think that's where the rub is coming from, because

565
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 4: they're making it sound like there's all of these losses

566
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 4: when the reality is we all know that there aren't

567
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 4: these losses. And quite frankly, I think we've heard Kathy

568
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 4: say quite a bit that she wants to make sure

569
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 4: there's sustainability. Well, there is nothing like proving that there

570
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 4: is sustainability than expansion and the fact that there are

571
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 4: owners incredible owners who own you know, not only the

572
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 4: commanders and the seventy six ers, but that want to

573
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 4: gain and be an owner in the w's.

574
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 5: That is proof in the.

575
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 4: Putting that this is a viable league that will continue

576
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 4: to be a going concern. And so for them to

577
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 4: come back and say, oh, wait, hold on, we're concerned

578
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 4: that we might you know, not be able to continue,

579
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 4: that just doesn't make any sense. And anybody can see

580
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 4: through that. And the players, again as sophisticated business women,

581
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 4: know that that doesn't make sense, and they want to

582
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 4: share in all of this.

583
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: The convenient claims of we will not be profitable with

584
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: this exact number, which happens to be exactly what you're

585
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: asking for, you know, while we see people scrambling to

586
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 1: get involved, to buy expansion teams and to put their

587
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: money into something that's very clearly a positive venture.

588
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 4: And Sarah, even more to your point, that we will

589
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 4: not be profitable, but hey, by the way, we want

590
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 4: you to be paid based on profitability.

591
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, like right, right, exactly, well, and I

592
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 1: want to ask about that because you know, whenever the

593
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: topic of WNBA profitability comes up, even when CBA negotiations

594
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: aren't happening, but especially when they are. Adam Silver likes

595
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: to somehow go out in public and basically dilute the

596
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: value of the product that he represents. He loves talking

597
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: about losses in a way that we do not usually

598
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: see heads of leagues or folks associated with leagues doing.

599
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: And he said back in twenty eighteen that the WNBA

600
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: was losing ten million a year. This is what trolls

601
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: use constantly to argue that the league shouldn't exist and

602
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: that the women haven't earned and aren't owed anything.

603
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: How much did that quote come up when.

604
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: You were negotiating in twenty twenty How much did they

605
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: try to use losses in a way that we don't

606
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: usually see things like sports leagues use losses in terms

607
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: of negotiations.

608
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 4: Oh, just way too many times? Right, because you know,

609
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 4: and again it came up quite a bit with out

610
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 4: transparency into even how those numbers were arrived at, right,

611
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 4: because you know, we can all get behind something that

612
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 4: we can prove or disprove. But when you look at it,

613
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 4: and certainly, as we talked about earlier with Alan Ingram,

614
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 4: for example, one of our PhD economists, he said, look,

615
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 4: there is no reason that the players aren't making seven

616
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty thousand on average, right, this number at

617
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 4: five point fifty is leaving a lot on the table.

618
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 4: Not on the table for the players, but it's leaving

619
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 4: a lot for the owners to actually receive. And that's

620
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 4: just not where they should be. They put a lot

621
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 4: into this. And even more fundamentally, Sarah and basic, if

622
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 4: you can look at someone like a Caitlin Clark, who

623
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 4: is making less than one hundred thousand dollars a year, it.

624
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: Is with a twenty five million dollar Nike deal.

625
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: If you want to look at what the market is

626
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: actually telling you about value.

627
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 4: Right and the sold out games, and how can you

628
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 4: i mean comfortably sleep at night knowing that you're paying

629
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 4: someone less than one hundred thousand dollars that's bringing you

630
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 4: millions of dollars in revenue. I mean, that's the basic.

631
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 5: Not only that wasn't she offered fifteen million from Big three?

632
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: You know?

633
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 5: Right?

634
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah?

635
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I want to ask you that, Sonya, because

636
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: we're at this incredible inflection point.

637
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: It is impossible right.

638
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: Now to deny the value of women's sports and women athletes.

639
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: It feels like it's sort of now or ever, for

640
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: these women to put their foot down on this bullshit

641
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: and not let the league bully them into yet again

642
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: settling for less while everyone else in their ecosphere is

643
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: making more. Is this something where it would be worth

644
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: a work stoppage for the players If that's what it

645
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: comes down to.

646
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 5: You gave me the That is the question of the game.

647
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 5: That is the question of Sarah. You're talking to a

648
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 5: former player. We want to play, Okay, we want to play.

649
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 5: Nobody wants to see a work stoppage, right, That's just

650
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 5: not You know, at the end of the day, most women,

651
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 5: when you interview them, they'll tell you they play for

652
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 5: the love of the game, right. But at the end

653
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 5: of the day, we also understand that compensation is extremely important.

654
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 5: So I will say this to the inflection point that

655
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 5: you just made, I think both sides in the next

656
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 5: few weeks will will define the next decade. Right, And

657
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 5: maybe hopefully it's in the next few weeks, but you know,

658
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 5: well we'll see, right. But I think with expansion, with

659
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 5: new sponsorships and record ratings and all of that stuff

660
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 5: we've already been talking about, I think the WNBA's positioned

661
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 5: for that exponential growth, right. But I also think the

662
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 5: the players that they're they're asking for that their economic

663
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 5: participation just reflect that success. That's it. So we don't

664
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 5: want to have a luckout.

665
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: We yeah, and respect.

666
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: In my opinion, it doesn't feel respectful the way that

667
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: the negotiations have gone so far.

668
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: It's a denial and forget.

669
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 5: I think that's what's at stake is not just the pay,

670
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 5: but it's the structure of Again, as we're saying the partnership,

671
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 5: there's the way that it's being structured, I think, and

672
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 5: I think the the the blueprint. This will be a

673
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 5: blueprint for women's sports worldwide. That's what I'm feeling. I'm

674
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 5: feeling like we're moving to something as Tamika's buzzword. And

675
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 5: I've been waiting for her to say it because I

676
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 5: don't want to say it before she says it. But

677
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 5: it starts with a T.

678
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: All right, it's your word, Tamika, Tamika tea with the

679
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: T word, give it to us.

680
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 4: Yes, Yeah, And I think Sonya hit it right on

681
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 4: the nose.

682
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 5: It is.

683
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: It has to be transformational, almost, Sarah, And I know

684
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 4: you've heard me say this already many many times, but

685
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 4: they need to just scrap this, because that's what's happening.

686
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 4: The problem is when you sort of are building on junk,

687
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 4: you continue to get it right, and so they almost

688
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 4: need to just start over and reimagine what they can do,

689
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 4: because that is precisely the problem. Like, yes, I can

690
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 4: you know, we all know we've had our first job.

691
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 4: Right when you're paid, you know, twenty thousand dollars and

692
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 4: you continue to get five percent, ten percent, like at

693
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 4: a certain point you're like, I just need a new job, right,

694
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 4: And we're seeing with Unrivaled, like they're able to pay

695
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 4: the players so much more money for such a much

696
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 4: smaller period of time. They're able to give them the benefit,

697
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 4: so they know that this is possible. So what needs

698
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 4: to happen is that they all need to reimagine what's possible,

699
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 4: even outside of the formal agreement. Why aren't they looking

700
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 4: at if they think there's so much an expansion and

701
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 4: potential teams, why aren't they looking at giving the players

702
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 4: a piece of this new giving them some ownership in

703
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 4: this right, just like Unrivaled is giving them ownership.

704
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to get to that.

705
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: The kind of creative things we've seen on the men's

706
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: side that they might be able to bring. You just

707
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: had me thinking, and I always loved this phrase and

708
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: did not think it was worthy of mocking. But Kamala saying,

709
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: unburdened by what has been, it feels like they need

710
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: to stop burdening themselves by what has been and start

711
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: thinking completely differently about it, because there's a great value

712
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: to the length that the WNBA has existed. Is the

713
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: longest running professional women's league in America. It is also

714
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: in some ways burdened by a system set up decades

715
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: ago that is not the reality for women athletes and

716
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: women's sports anymore, and yet the owners are trying to

717
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: tie it to that history in order to keep denying

718
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: them the reality of what is now. And to me,

719
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: that's such a great point by you just start over,

720
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: start thinking about it completely differently when you get into

721
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: these negotiations. Let's talk about what you just mentioned, the

722
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,800
Speaker 1: creative stuff, because in some ways the NBA Collective Bargaining

723
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: Agreement has allowed players to benefit from league success in

724
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: ways that aren't just revenue share, things like private equity investments,

725
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: participation in expansion fee revenue. So talk to me about

726
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: some ways you think the WNBA in the league could

727
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: be a little more creative here.

728
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 4: Yes for sure. So yes, in the last NBA or negotiations,

729
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 4: they were able to actually buy in to private equity

730
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 4: that could buy into teams, just like the NBA and

731
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 4: the other owners have been able to benefit from this.

732
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 4: Now players can collectively benefit from this as well. That

733
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 4: gives them the opportunity for more revenue into their union

734
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 4: to be able to support things like education, things that

735
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 4: really matter, right, that create generational wealth. They could do

736
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 4: the same thing here, right, There's no reason that they

737
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 4: can't do that. They also could give them opportunities to

738
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 4: leverage into buying ownership even outside of the WNBA. So

739
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 4: as you know, like now the players can buy in,

740
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 4: the men can buy into women's teams, they can have

741
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 4: an equity interest things like that. So they really just

742
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 4: have to expand this. I love that you quoted Kamala

743
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 4: because I had not.

744
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 5: I forgot about that.

745
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 4: I'm like, I wish there was a great way to

746
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 4: say this, but you were right to just be unburdened

747
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 4: by what has been and that is precisely I mean.

748
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 4: If there could be a headline that comes out tomorrow

749
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 4: on the Wall Street Journal, that's what it should be

750
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 4: compliments of Sarah.

751
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: Spain right, with a hat tip to Kamala my president.

752
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 4: Exactly, that is precisely what needs to happen. They really

753
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 4: need to think outside of the box here, and they

754
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 4: need to think about how to grow the pie so

755
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 4: that everyone's benefiting, not thinking about, oh gosh, we took

756
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 4: such a loss, you know, twenty thirty years ago. Well,

757
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 4: you know that's what investment's about, right, That's what it's about.

758
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 4: And so they need to help them.

759
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: And the reason more people are arriving is because the

760
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: economic reality is different now and that has to be

761
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: acknowledged and the players have to be a part of that.

762
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: I just hope that they haven't spent so long at

763
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: the table already fighting each other that they can't revisit

764
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: the idea of building and growing this thing together.

765
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 2: We shall see.

766
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: Last question for both of you, brilliant ladies, do you

767
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: think a deal is going to get done?

768
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 2: And do you have any idea when sonya?

769
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 5: Yes, that's the former player talking. Okay, yes, the business

770
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 5: side is saying, I just don't know when, right, Because

771
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 5: if you listen to the quotes of some of the players, right,

772
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 5: they have been very transparent in what's going on, and

773
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 5: although they are hopeful, they are preparing for that, you know,

774
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 5: which could potentially be that lockout, you know, and so

775
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 5: you hear that and you hear Remnims in it, so

776
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 5: you know that they're discussing that. So yes, I am hopeful.

777
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 5: I am we want to see it. And let me

778
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 5: say this, Sarah, there is something about playing in the W.

779
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 5: I had an opportunity to be drafted by the A

780
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 5: b L back in the day, and that was the

781
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 5: other league my assistant coach from University of Maryland. She

782
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 5: was the head coach for the Columbia Quest, the same

783
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 5: team that I think Don played on a couple other people.

784
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 5: But anyway, I chose the W because even though I

785
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 5: could have made more money planned in the ABL, because

786
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 5: they were offering more at the time, I knew that

787
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 5: there was just something about being in an NBA arena,

788
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 5: you know, that couldn't take the place of anything that

789
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 5: childhood watching, you know, come fly with me, Michael Jordan,

790
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 5: and you know, being in the in the in state,

791
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 5: in LA and so many at the time it was

792
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 5: Staples Center. So I'm hopeful that that a deal will

793
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 5: get done. Despite women having the opportunities to play in

794
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 5: other leagues. It is not the w So that's why

795
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 5: I hope that that we are able to see the

796
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 5: women back on the court again pretty soon.

797
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 2: What about you, Tamika.

798
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I would agree with Sonia one hundred percent

799
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 4: that yes, this will get done. Now to the point

800
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 4: that she made about, you know, a lockout, I don't.

801
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 4: I don't believe that it'll get done without a lockout.

802
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 4: You know, just even listening to their in house counsel

803
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 4: last week, it sounds like they didn't even hear from

804
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 4: the WNBA over the last couple of weeks, right Adam

805
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 4: and I were actually having meetings, negotiations like right up

806
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 4: to that day. Like the fact that you wouldn't have

807
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 4: heard from them in a couple of weeks just blows

808
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 4: my mind. It is almost like, you know, sort of

809
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 4: blatant disregard. And so when you do things like that,

810
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 4: assuming that that is true, let me you know, have

811
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 4: that one caveat, it makes you think that they are

812
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 4: not being valued, and so you know, there has to

813
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 4: probably be something that is, you know, much more brutal

814
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 4: than status quo, quite frankly, to make them do it.

815
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 4: But I do think that they will reach in a

816
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 4: there is nothing better than playing in the W As

817
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 4: a woman in the US who with buyers to play

818
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 4: basketball professionally, I one hundred percent agree, And I think

819
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 4: they will continue to be a going concern and they'll

820
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 4: be incredibly successful. That they all have to be in it,

821
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 4: and they all have to value each other, you know, respectfully,

822
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 4: and I think that's what's really critically.

823
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: Important to Mika.

824
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 1: I want to clarify it's the league side that says

825
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: they haven't heard from the players in a couple of weeks.

826
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 4: Now, No, it was the PA side. So they're in

827
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 4: hosp council who said, you know, we're sitting here on

828
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 4: January ninth, eight hours before and we haven't heard from them.

829
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: Nothing that explains the inflatable rat in the truck with

830
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: the screens on the side. Because I was going to say,

831
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: I could see the players Association saying, if you don't

832
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: ever move off this gross revenue net revenue, we have

833
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: nothing to talk about. But if the if the owner

834
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: side is the one not even communicating, that feels even

835
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: more worrisome that they're putting their foot down at a

836
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 1: place that is nowhere near what the players are asking

837
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: for Oh boy, all right, ladies, this was so informational

838
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: on education. Well, thank you so much for the time.

839
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you bringing your insight.

840
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 2: To the show.

841
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 4: My pleasure absolutely, thank you for giving us the opportunity.

842
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 2: Thanks again to Sonya and tamike It for taking the time.

843
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: We got to take another break when we return, a

844
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: childhood intention that paid off.

845
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: Welcome back slices.

846
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want you to

847
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: get in the game every day too, So here's our

848
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: good game play of the day.

849
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 2: Pretty easy. Follow Sonya and to meet on social media.

850
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 2: We'll link to their Instagram handles in the show notes.

851
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: We'll also link to the podcast episode to Meeta mentioned

852
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: at the end there, featuring Friend of the Show Aaron

853
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: Drake from the WNBPA. She sat down with fellow friend

854
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: of the show Christina Williams. We'll link to that in

855
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: the show notes. Also want to send out a quick

856
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: couple high fives today. First slice Sarah, who ran into

857
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: Friend of the Show Annie Costable at Unrivaled and was

858
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: rocking our good game, Good game. Few T shirt shouts

859
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: to you, Sarah, Thank you for listening, Thank you for

860
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: rocking the merch. If anyone out there wants to be

861
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: cool like Sarah and get spotted by friends of the

862
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: show like Annie, you could check it out at breakingta

863
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: dot com slash Spain to get your own merch. Also

864
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: little teaser here some new merch is in the works

865
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: coming soon.

866
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: Also one more high five.

867
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: I got a shout out comedian and women's sports lover

868
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: Wanda Sykes, who presented at Sunday Night's Golden Globes and

869
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: as she was announcing the nominees, first she cleverly insulted

870
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: Bill Maher in a way that made him look genuinely hurt,

871
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,479
Speaker 1: which I enjoyed. And then as she was announcing Ricky

872
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: Gervais as one of the nominees for stand up Specials,

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00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,479
Speaker 1: she said if he was absent and one, she would

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00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: thank God and the trans community on his behalf. Well,

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00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: Ricky Gervais, noted atheist and teller of many anti trans jokes,

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00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 1: did end up taking home the trophy, and she followed

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00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 1: through on her promise, thanking the trans community on his behalf.

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00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 1: Absolute queen shit, Wanda. I love it and we always

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00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 1: love to hear from you, so hit us up on email.

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00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: Good game at Wondermedia Network dot com or leave us

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00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: a voicemail at eight seven two two o four fifty

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00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: seventy and don't forget I tell you every day. Subscriber

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00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: and review slaces, It's easy. Watch Manifesting your Olympic future.

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00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: Rating one of one determined Kiddo review. After figure skater

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00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: Isabel Lovito was named to the US team for the

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00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: upcoming Milan Courtina Winter Olympics, US Figure Skating posted the

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00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: most adorable video of young Livito putting her dream out

888
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: in the world. Take a listens, I can meet a winner. However,

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00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: my goodness, that's what we call manifesting. We'll link to

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00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 1: the full video of Isabe's goal setting session in the

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00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: show notes. It's too precious. Now it's your turn, rate

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00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: and review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game,

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00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: Sonya and Tamika. Good game, Biancak. You telling players you'll

894
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: pay them out of a profit you claim you're not

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00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: gonna make. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart

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00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

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00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: You could find us on the iHeartRadio app, up, Apple Podcasts,

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00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts production by Wonder Media Network.

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Speaker 2: Our producers are alex.

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00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: Azzie, Grace Lynch, Taylor Williamson, and Lucy Jones. Our executive

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00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutterer.

902
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer.

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00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah

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Speaker 1: Spain