1
00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: And now moved the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

2
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,760
Speaker 1: Hey hey, hey, it's Bucky Brooks and I'm here with

3
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,240
Speaker 1: my main man. Is there a lin stepping in for

4
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,000
Speaker 1: DJ Lance? How was the weekend? It was good? It

5
00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: was good, just eight tenner, way too late last night.

6
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,120
Speaker 1: A little spicy food and uh I had too much

7
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,760
Speaker 1: she eat and uh I was with Marcus took from

8
00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 1: the from the digital side. Also seen Marky Mark for

9
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 1: a while. So I brought the wife with me this

10
00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,800
Speaker 1: trip hanging it's make casey. Yeah, I mean it's a

11
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,400
Speaker 1: short one for her. It's like we're in and she's out.

12
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,360
Speaker 1: And I said, what are we doing today? I said, well,

13
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,519
Speaker 1: I'm doing move the sticks back to the draft to Moroma,

14
00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: do my draft live and path into her raft. So

15
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 1: it was nice heaving dinner with enjoy yourself, see the city,

16
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,920
Speaker 1: enjoy yourself, just leaving on the credit card. Yeah. Yeah.

17
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 1: So we we hit Santa Monica. Uh, I'm staying at

18
00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 1: the hotel and I didn't realize, Man, it was packed

19
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 1: and I didn't realize we're coming in on the marathon day. Marathon. Yeah,

20
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,960
Speaker 1: and the traffic was Yeah, traffic has been in. This

21
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,080
Speaker 1: is a big event because I think it finishes down

22
00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,480
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica. Yeah, must because it was ridiculous little party, everybody,

23
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,559
Speaker 1: everybody getting there twenty six point to know. My wife's

24
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,840
Speaker 1: done it four times. Oh yeah, she said no, I

25
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 1: would not even I'm not even trying to hit two miles.

26
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,440
Speaker 1: She's gonna six. She'll go out on a Saturday and

27
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,319
Speaker 1: run fun. I'm like, whatever, what, Yeah, that's what are

28
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,240
Speaker 1: you doing today? Lands? Well, I'm gonna go watch as

29
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,119
Speaker 1: a Southeast Missouri kid that I'm gonna watch offensive lineman

30
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,319
Speaker 1: named Drew Forbes. What are you doing, I'm gonna run

31
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: twelve miles? Well, okay, then go ahead. Well, one guy

32
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,440
Speaker 1: who now has enough time on his hands to be

33
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:43,840
Speaker 1: able to run marathons would be Rob Gronkowski. Rob Gronkowski, Uh,

34
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,520
Speaker 1: former New England Patriots tied end has decided to call

35
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: it a career. Um, he's I guess going to retires

36
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,040
Speaker 1: to mid his paperwork in and say that he's done.

37
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,600
Speaker 1: He's going out on top as a super Bowl champion.

38
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: And what I want to ask you is, man like,

39
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 1: how do you view him in the context of the

40
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,640
Speaker 1: tight ends that you have seen? Is he one that

41
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,040
Speaker 1: we were ranked as the greatest of all time UM.

42
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,880
Speaker 1: And then secondly, when you think about what he has

43
00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,560
Speaker 1: been able to do, how will it impact the way

44
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,200
Speaker 1: the weview tied ends when it comes to a scouting perspective,

45
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that it changes a lot.

46
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,080
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this yesterday. And so Rob Gronkowski,

47
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, slid a little bit in a draft because

48
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,519
Speaker 1: he had these injury concerns and injury his he didn't

49
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 1: play his final year. Yeah, I mean you were You

50
00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,360
Speaker 1: were in the league at that point. I was, I

51
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 1: was done. But he didn't play his final season. He

52
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 1: didn't play his last year Arizona. He we know, were

53
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 1: you scouting in the league. I just made a move.

54
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,920
Speaker 1: I made a move over to media. I met been

55
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 1: with Sports Illustrated at the time. But like when Kowski

56
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,079
Speaker 1: didn't play his last year in Arizona and still went

57
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,960
Speaker 1: forty second, but he didn't play and got drafted there,

58
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: like right, So that speaks to how special he was.

59
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,360
Speaker 1: Maybe when we saw him at Arizona, UM he had

60
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,920
Speaker 1: a back issue that kept him out his final season.

61
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:57,520
Speaker 1: He came out early. I want to say he came

62
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,679
Speaker 1: out after his junior year despite not playing, still gets

63
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 1: drafted in the second round, goes on and becomes an

64
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,320
Speaker 1: immediate impact player for the New England Patriots. He and

65
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,359
Speaker 1: the late Aaron hernandez uh created this this this tag

66
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 1: team where the Patriots are able to go twelve personnel,

67
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: two tight ends on the field and do a bunch

68
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,400
Speaker 1: of creative things. Um. But when you think about the

69
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,360
Speaker 1: tight end position, Rob Gronkowski is different than some of

70
00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,960
Speaker 1: the other guys that we have talked about more recently,

71
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,960
Speaker 1: the Jimmy Graham's and the like. He was a true

72
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,280
Speaker 1: why meaning he was an in line tight end that

73
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 1: could line up attached to the tackle. He could block

74
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,600
Speaker 1: like nobody's business. But then he had the athleticism to

75
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 1: be able to create mismatches in space. Um, it's really

76
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 1: hard to find guys who can do that kind of

77
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,880
Speaker 1: work on the perimeter. Yeah, you know, we call him,

78
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, I call him. I like to call him

79
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,000
Speaker 1: Combo tight ends or wise. But he was rare because

80
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,440
Speaker 1: and this is why he has to go down as

81
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 1: one of them, I think one of the all time

82
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,920
Speaker 1: greats when it's all said and done, because the production

83
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 1: is there, the ability to to affect the running game

84
00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,840
Speaker 1: and the passing game, and for me, what always made

85
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,960
Speaker 1: him special and that I really struggled with as I

86
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 1: kept waiting. I don't feel like when I'm watching him,

87
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,320
Speaker 1: I don't feel like he's this fluid, you know, beautiful,

88
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, slot receiver, and yet you can't check him.

89
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,200
Speaker 1: He's got this rare acceleration and you can't tell how

90
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 1: fast he's running, and he's just gets open. He consistently

91
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,040
Speaker 1: gets open. He's a big body, post up specialist. He's

92
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,360
Speaker 1: a red zone weapon. He was dominant. And then when

93
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,359
Speaker 1: you think about I mean, I'm sure your dad would

94
00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,159
Speaker 1: love to have him as an go to work to

95
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 1: be able to go and do the run game. And

96
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,680
Speaker 1: I think that the beauty of Grandkowski going out the

97
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:41,119
Speaker 1: way that he is going out. His most impactful um

98
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,000
Speaker 1: moments this year as a blocker, Oh yeah, no, no question.

99
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,080
Speaker 1: He absolutely kicked tail in the postseason where when the

100
00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,720
Speaker 1: Patriots decided, look, this is who we are. We're going

101
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 1: to be a physical, downhill running team. They did it

102
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,359
Speaker 1: with eight seven on the edge, just bawling dudes. And

103
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 1: I think that is ultimately what you want your best

104
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 1: players to do, to always impact the game even when

105
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,479
Speaker 1: they don't have the ball into hered. You know, I

106
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 1: think that's one of the things that really uh speaks

107
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,640
Speaker 1: to his greatness too. Is it because he knew he

108
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 1: didn't have the physical capabilities to do He just wasn't

109
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,599
Speaker 1: physically there this year, And so it's almost like he

110
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,280
Speaker 1: intentionally shifted that focus to say, let me put a

111
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,640
Speaker 1: little bit more into, um, the blocking, let me make

112
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,359
Speaker 1: sure that I'm gonna still help the Patriots be the

113
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,000
Speaker 1: best they can be. And I thought he showed up

114
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 1: in the postseason as a past catcher as well. Um,

115
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,120
Speaker 1: it's clear that physically he's beginning to deteriorate, I think,

116
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 1: and the fact that they've had him for as long

117
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,719
Speaker 1: as they have without he's had his injuries, but not

118
00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,839
Speaker 1: not a ton And and I always felt like, you know,

119
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 1: it's always you could ask yourself, how good would Rob

120
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 1: Gronkowski have been for any number of other quarterbacks. But

121
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 1: I think if you want to talk about his greatness,

122
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,600
Speaker 1: look at how Tom Brady struggled at times. Rob Grondkowski

123
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,440
Speaker 1: was not on the field. He looked like a different guy.

124
00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,240
Speaker 1: There were times and I remember doing a you know,

125
00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,200
Speaker 1: doing my radio showing Houston, saying this maybe it for

126
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,280
Speaker 1: Tom Brady what three or four year I think it's

127
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,600
Speaker 1: about four years ago when Donkowski was out. Yeah, we

128
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,159
Speaker 1: did it. We did it repeatedly, like how are they

129
00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,560
Speaker 1: gonna survive without eighty seven? And for so long people

130
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,000
Speaker 1: have been like, yeah, but you know, the Patriots have

131
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,040
Speaker 1: been able to win. You don't need a number one receiver.

132
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,159
Speaker 1: Hold up, Rob Gronkowski was the number one option. And

133
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,560
Speaker 1: it was different because he was a y and he

134
00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: wasn't a wide receiver X or Z, but he was

135
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 1: the number one option. And the way that they utilized him,

136
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 1: be it an empty be it on the back side

137
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,560
Speaker 1: of three bout one formations, as an attached or detached

138
00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 1: tight in, he created problems and you always had to

139
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,080
Speaker 1: to shift your your your defensive emphasis to be able

140
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,880
Speaker 1: to deal with eighty seven dominant player. And originally I

141
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,279
Speaker 1: kind of bristled at the notion that he's the greatest

142
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,679
Speaker 1: tight end of all time. But then when you begin

143
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,200
Speaker 1: to look at what he did, not only as a

144
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 1: pass catcher, like his yards per catch average of fifteen

145
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: hired in Jerry Rice and some of these other guys,

146
00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,560
Speaker 1: and then you look at how physically dominant and imposing

147
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,159
Speaker 1: he was, then you throw into blocking. I mean, I

148
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if any other tied end

149
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,280
Speaker 1: has been able to impact the game like this. And

150
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 1: I played with Tony Gonzalez, and I would say, a

151
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 1: Tony Gonzalez is an a plus talent, But when it

152
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,480
Speaker 1: comes to blocking and being kind of like a road

153
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 1: greater on the edge, yeah, Tony wasn't dead. Tony was

154
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 1: an athlete, a basketball player who was a service of blocker.

155
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 1: Rob Gronkowski was a dominant well. And that's why when

156
00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 1: when you talked about there's there's three names that come

157
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 1: to mind when you talk about number one tight ends

158
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,400
Speaker 1: who are number one receiving options. And you could say

159
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: there were other guys, certainly with for Dan Faux, but

160
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 1: Kellen Winslow had had a lot of that. But of

161
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 1: the more current generation, I would say, you know, it's

162
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,240
Speaker 1: Tony and it's gonna be Antonio Gates. Neither one of

163
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 1: those guys block like Gronkowski. I mean, Antonio Gates is

164
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 1: is more of a he is a basketball receiver and

165
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,600
Speaker 1: he's but they were number one, and and Philip Rivers

166
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,560
Speaker 1: and then everybody who was in frankly, everybody who was

167
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,720
Speaker 1: in Kansas City with with Gonzalez and then with his move.

168
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 1: I mean, you you're talking about they changed the way

169
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 1: that you were able to look at your wide receiver position.

170
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: I think everyone wanted to have a number one wide receiver,

171
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 1: but you didn't have to as long as you had

172
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 1: capable wide receivers and you had to you call him

173
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 1: a number one option. That's a great way to look

174
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,440
Speaker 1: at it because there are different ways to utilize your

175
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,560
Speaker 1: receiving corps. You've talked about the basketball. You gotta have

176
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,640
Speaker 1: a basketball team out there. Well, I mean that's that's

177
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,960
Speaker 1: dumping it down to a La Juan Rob Gronkowski in

178
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,000
Speaker 1: the paint, right there in the paint. You're just dumping

179
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 1: it down for a little dream, a little and they

180
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,600
Speaker 1: used to do so much stuff with him. I mean,

181
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 1: and I think like our imagery is kind of clouded

182
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,920
Speaker 1: because of you know, like we saw a declining player.

183
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,600
Speaker 1: He wasn't the same point. But if you go back

184
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,600
Speaker 1: two years where he played all sixteen years first and second, yeah,

185
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 1: I mean when you when you watch how he was

186
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 1: able to move in his prime, you just didn't see

187
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,880
Speaker 1: big guys like this, and now he's kind of like vultring.

188
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 1: He had all the the pads and equipment on and

189
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,240
Speaker 1: and kind of like it seemed like he was lumbering.

190
00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,840
Speaker 1: But he's steadily and consistently getting past linebackers and safeties

191
00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 1: down the field. He's just a unique player, and I

192
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,480
Speaker 1: think the New England Patriots certainly helped him out with

193
00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,439
Speaker 1: their scheme, but he is a unique talent and they

194
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,680
Speaker 1: were just able to maximize everything that he brought to

195
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: the table. And so it's it's interesting now when we

196
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,440
Speaker 1: look at the Patriots, Obviously this has to impact them

197
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,000
Speaker 1: in some way, shape or form, being in free agency

198
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,320
Speaker 1: or the draft. Luckily, this year's draft class is loaded

199
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,560
Speaker 1: with tight ends. Could you see the Patriots make a

200
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 1: move to get one or maybe even two tight ends

201
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 1: in the same draft. Absolutely, And we've seen it for

202
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: years and years before he got her Nandez, and you know,

203
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,839
Speaker 1: he had the perfect combination at one point, he meaning

204
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,640
Speaker 1: Belichick with her Nandez and then Gronk. And we know

205
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,480
Speaker 1: what happened with her Nandez. Now Gronka is on the

206
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,760
Speaker 1: way out. But even before that, they kept drafting tight

207
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 1: ends because I think Belichick in his mind recognized the

208
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,679
Speaker 1: ability to mismatch the way other people weren't mismatching, uh

209
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 1: with with multiple tight ends who did multiple things and uh,

210
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,280
Speaker 1: I remember there's a kid out of tull So that

211
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,960
Speaker 1: they drafted a little while back. And so now and

212
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,960
Speaker 1: this this is a good tight end draft, and it

213
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,760
Speaker 1: does have a variety of players, and you do have

214
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,920
Speaker 1: some white tight ends and some guys who can do

215
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,920
Speaker 1: a little of both. I do think that New England

216
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 1: Patriots recognize that Tom Brady likes to have They're not

217
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 1: gonna be He's not a quarterback who's gonna throw it,

218
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, long and deep. He's not somebody who likes

219
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,800
Speaker 1: to work way outside the hash. He likes to work

220
00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 1: the middle of the field. And I think finding a big,

221
00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 1: capable candidate at tight end who's got the ability to

222
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,280
Speaker 1: to to impact the run and pass, I mean that

223
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,360
Speaker 1: that's a big part of who the Patriots are now

224
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,160
Speaker 1: and I do think they're gonna look for that, and

225
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,040
Speaker 1: this is a good draft for them to take a

226
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,520
Speaker 1: look at that. So anytime you're working with your mocks

227
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 1: and you look at the back end of the first

228
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,240
Speaker 1: with the Patriots, I'm always hyper aware of r Smith

229
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,839
Speaker 1: of North Fan and Hockinson is not. I don't think

230
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,439
Speaker 1: he's gonna be there for Frankly, I don't think fan

231
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,640
Speaker 1: is either. But they have enough draft capital and and

232
00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 1: the one move up the Patriots have done. They normally

233
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 1: are a team that and we will talk about this.

234
00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 1: This is kind of like a theme. They will double

235
00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 1: down own on a weakness, meaning yes, they will draft

236
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,679
Speaker 1: multiple players at a position of need. And in fact,

237
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,000
Speaker 1: the year that they took Rob Gronkowski, I think it

238
00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,560
Speaker 1: was the same year they took Aaron Hernandez, and so

239
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,439
Speaker 1: they had two rookies in place playing the y and

240
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,040
Speaker 1: the age. And if we can go back and remember

241
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:24,480
Speaker 1: how good those offenses were, they created problems with those

242
00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,200
Speaker 1: guys and the interchangeability of the two guys being able

243
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,439
Speaker 1: to just stay on the field and more formations and

244
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 1: to do so many different things. I just believe it's

245
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,080
Speaker 1: something that um, I mean, it kind of revolutionized the

246
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,079
Speaker 1: offensive world for a little bit. There was a four

247
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,200
Speaker 1: or five year window where those two guys were able

248
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,920
Speaker 1: to just dominate so enable interchangeable wise and agents. Rob

249
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,600
Speaker 1: Gronkowski was the second pick of the second round. Well

250
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,079
Speaker 1: he was, I'm sorry, there was their second pick. He

251
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 1: was the forty second pick, and Aaron Hernandez was the

252
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,840
Speaker 1: hundred thirteen pick in the fourth round. So you're right,

253
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 1: they doubled down. And by the way, you know what

254
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,600
Speaker 1: they did before between those tight end two linebackers Jermaine

255
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 1: Cunningham and Brandon Spikes, both from Florida, there's the double down.

256
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,600
Speaker 1: That's that's what that's what they do. They're not afraid

257
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,640
Speaker 1: of throwing resources at the positions of need, and it's

258
00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,080
Speaker 1: a smart strategy about this. Two thousand six, this is

259
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,520
Speaker 1: what I was thinking of. Second round pick Uh in

260
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,960
Speaker 1: two thousand and six was Dave Thomas tight end Texas.

261
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,959
Speaker 1: The very next pick Garrett Mills tight end from from

262
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,280
Speaker 1: double down. And Bill Belichick will tell you his affinity

263
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,120
Speaker 1: for tight ends goes all the way back to his

264
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,680
Speaker 1: days when he worked for the Detroit Lions. I think

265
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,520
Speaker 1: he may have been working there when Charlie Sanders Uh

266
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,040
Speaker 1: was playing there, and he always saw the impact in

267
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,719
Speaker 1: the effect of having two tight ends. And so when

268
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 1: you have two tight ends guys that can get on

269
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,000
Speaker 1: the field and do some different things, it does create

270
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 1: a unique situation. You know. Speaking of unique situations, um,

271
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,560
Speaker 1: I want to talk about because so many of tight

272
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,319
Speaker 1: ends now now when we look at tight ends, and

273
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,960
Speaker 1: it used to be you were a y or and

274
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,800
Speaker 1: then and then when it was us wise, all of

275
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,000
Speaker 1: a sudden, tight ends started to disappear from the league.

276
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 1: And then and then I think Antonio Gates and and

277
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 1: obviously well I think Gates was a big part of it.

278
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:13,360
Speaker 1: You started seeing, um, guys who were really beginning to

279
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,839
Speaker 1: mismatch other teams. The basketball player Antonio Gates comes in

280
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,160
Speaker 1: the league, and I remember as a rookie he just

281
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,320
Speaker 1: put he gave the Texans like was unbelievable, And I

282
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,280
Speaker 1: remember thinking, well, how do you guard them? I mean

283
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,199
Speaker 1: because back then you just guarden with linebackers. Well it

284
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,240
Speaker 1: was a rap and then okay, well then you gotta

285
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,480
Speaker 1: guard them with the strong safety. Well then the strong

286
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,000
Speaker 1: safety get posted up by a guy like Gates, who

287
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,440
Speaker 1: was legitimately a post player, like this is a tournament

288
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 1: post player in the final four, right, So um, so,

289
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,520
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the mismatched slot and it's a

290
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 1: copycat league. League. People start realizing, well, maybe they won't

291
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,319
Speaker 1: have to be great blockers if they can mismatch in

292
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 1: the slot. And so now this whole concept. Every time

293
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,600
Speaker 1: I look at players, guys, I used to probably would

294
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,839
Speaker 1: have scratched because we used to be able to pigeonhole guys.

295
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,600
Speaker 1: And if you aren't this, then you couldn't play. If

296
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,600
Speaker 1: you weren't this, they're not tweeterers anymore. They're hybrids. And

297
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: so now, Bucky, I want to talk about mismatched slots

298
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 1: because there are different ways that you can win from

299
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,720
Speaker 1: the slot, and it can be a big pass catching

300
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,760
Speaker 1: tight end, but it can also be so yeah, I

301
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,840
Speaker 1: mean hunter Hunter Renfro. I don't know if I call

302
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 1: him a mismatched slot. He's more of what people welcome

303
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: ushered in a new era of slot receiver, right, And

304
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 1: that's fine and that works too, but so does I'm

305
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 1: looking at at a guy like little Jordan Humphrey from

306
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,640
Speaker 1: University text. Now he was not I don't know why.

307
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,680
Speaker 1: I got down to two tin at the combine and

308
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,840
Speaker 1: ran skinny and then ran slow. I mean, beef up

309
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 1: and be a big slot. That's what I'm saying. You

310
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 1: can run your four seven eight if you way to

311
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,320
Speaker 1: thirty two. Yeah, but don't don't get down too. Don't

312
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,120
Speaker 1: get down too because they don't have anything. But you're right,

313
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 1: and it is one of the things that last year um.

314
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,720
Speaker 1: I asked them guys about it because it was right

315
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,200
Speaker 1: after Michael Thomas started having a tremendous amount of success

316
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,760
Speaker 1: early in the year. Uh, he was wearing people out

317
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 1: in the slot position. He's number three when they go

318
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 1: trips um and you always count receivers from outside end.

319
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,200
Speaker 1: He would be lined up in the third position inside

320
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 1: and he's working against either small nickel guys or he's

321
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 1: working against linebackers, right. And what it is is he's

322
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 1: too physical for the little nickel guys, and he's too

323
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,240
Speaker 1: quick and elusive for the linebackers. And so Sean Payton

324
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,360
Speaker 1: and these other guys have discovered, man, we put a

325
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,480
Speaker 1: big guy in there, it is almost like having a

326
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 1: pseudo tied in And so they're finding ways to create

327
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: these mismatches on the inside because these guys are overwhelming

328
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 1: with their physicality. And so in this draft class, when

329
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 1: you look at A J. Brown, a J. Brown is

330
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,800
Speaker 1: six pounds. People worried about he ran faster than I

331
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,040
Speaker 1: think everyone expected. But really he's gonna do his dirty

332
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 1: work as a big slot receiver if someone has that vision.

333
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: And so we've seen older guys in the league, Larry

334
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,160
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald and the like unbelievable because you want that big body,

335
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,080
Speaker 1: which is like a tied end, to go and dig

336
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 1: out those guys in the running game, but also take

337
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 1: advantage of the mismatches in the passing game. Yeah, and

338
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,600
Speaker 1: and I think it, you know what, it's easier. I

339
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 1: I think it's a little easier if you're able to

340
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 1: get the contested catches. And when you're a big slot

341
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 1: who understands how to use your body like a J.

342
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 1: Brown is certainly like Larry Fitzgerald. You know, Larry Fitzgerald

343
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 1: restarted his career. My dad was in Arizona, and I

344
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 1: remember talking to Darryl Drake about this, the wide receiver

345
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 1: coach at that time with Bruce Arians, and we talked

346
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: about you know, at first Larry wasn't crazy about bouncing

347
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,960
Speaker 1: inside to slot, and then once he really got a

348
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 1: feel for it, it extended his career. I mean, Larry

349
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 1: Fitzgerald became he had a second life as a wide

350
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 1: receiver because his contested catches or bananas. I mean, he's

351
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 1: incredibly strong, great hands, all the ball skills in the world.

352
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,200
Speaker 1: So now you're throwing them in tight quarters where he

353
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 1: can start posting people up. So it's less about separation

354
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 1: and it's more about bodying. And that's why you know

355
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 1: there are different mismatched slots because you can I can

356
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 1: see a world where Nick kill Harry in this draft,

357
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 1: where you say, you know what, depending on who's across

358
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,800
Speaker 1: the secondary, you know, we're gonna stick him in the middle,

359
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 1: and we're gonna give you a problem and we're gonna

360
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 1: make him a safety blank blanket and just beat you

361
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,560
Speaker 1: up with seven catches in the game. And then there's

362
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,520
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. And I think the good coaches

363
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,359
Speaker 1: understand man to tie in is a way you can

364
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 1: get easy, easy catches, easy touches. Just kind of post

365
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 1: them up, let them work, let them get it inside,

366
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 1: and kind of do damage. And so it is a

367
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,159
Speaker 1: matter of finding guys that you can create easy matchups, uh,

368
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,399
Speaker 1: easy mismatches, and easy completions for your quarterback. And so

369
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 1: you're right, but you have down about the other slot receiver. Yeah,

370
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 1: not the big guys, but the little quick guys. And

371
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 1: how do we maximize those guys and how do we

372
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 1: utilize those guys and what guys are really effective in

373
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,840
Speaker 1: the slot. And so from my vantage point when I'm

374
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,719
Speaker 1: looking at slot receivers of guys that I think can

375
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,120
Speaker 1: be slot receivers. One of the first things I'm looking

376
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,160
Speaker 1: for is I worry more about quickness and speed. Um

377
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 1: So if we were going to look at not them

378
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 1: on tape, but watch them on tape and watch them

379
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 1: move and run routes. But also when we look at

380
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 1: the combine, what do they do in their short shottle?

381
00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 1: What are they doing? Do they have impressive number is there?

382
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 1: Because it's the ability to create that create that rapid

383
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 1: acceleration when they're coming out the breakpoint. And then it's

384
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,639
Speaker 1: a matter of Ideally, I like guys that have some

385
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,840
Speaker 1: return skills in their background partners because I know they're

386
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,640
Speaker 1: tough because if you're a returner in the pump return game,

387
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,240
Speaker 1: you gotta be tough to deal with all the bodies

388
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,359
Speaker 1: coming down. Secondly, it means that you do have some

389
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 1: wiggle because a lot of what is effective in the

390
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,560
Speaker 1: slot is can they catch it and then can they

391
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 1: make the first guy missed and that five year game

392
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 1: becomes ten or twelve. That's what it is. When we

393
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 1: look at Edelman and some of the guys that are

394
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 1: known for being the best slot receivers in the League,

395
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 1: they're able to consistently turn those five and six yeard

396
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 1: routes and attending to have your games. Yeah, I think

397
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 1: there's a belief from a lot of people that if

398
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 1: the guys short, you just throw them into the slot

399
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 1: and that's all it is. And I'm looking at Andy

400
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,239
Speaker 1: a Isabella from from U mass And here's the guy

401
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,440
Speaker 1: who runs a four three unbelievable speed. We know that

402
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 1: hands aren't good. It's just not combine. Not the Senior Bowl,

403
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,640
Speaker 1: his hands are just not great. And he runs he's

404
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 1: so fast and so explosive in the first in the

405
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 1: first five and first five yards. Frankly that one of

406
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 1: the things you see, we really saw the Senior Bowl

407
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 1: was he's you know, at the top of the break.

408
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 1: He has to learn to gear it down like he

409
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 1: hasn't learned the route, tempo and pace because he hasn't

410
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: been a lifetime slot wiggle guy. He can just run

411
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,359
Speaker 1: by guys. How long does that take? And sometimes is

412
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 1: it gonna be too much? Like I wonder how long

413
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,239
Speaker 1: it takes? Like some guys, you are what they are.

414
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 1: Most guys don't change whatever you are on Saturday, that's

415
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 1: typically what you're going to be on Sunday. So for

416
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 1: a guy like Andy Isabella, I don't know if he

417
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 1: can go and live inside in the slot like that.

418
00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 1: Just because he is shortened statue doesn't mean that his

419
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 1: skill set is conducive to playing in the slot. To me,

420
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,920
Speaker 1: when I look at him, he's someone I always want

421
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,159
Speaker 1: to keep on the move, so shallow cross vertical routes.

422
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 1: I don't want him to do a lot of stop

423
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 1: and restarting, just because in my estimation, he doesn't do

424
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 1: that very very well. The guys who typically play well inside,

425
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: I think Deebo Samu will be good in the slot

426
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 1: because he's physical, he's tough. He can go into and

427
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: create at the top of the route. He will we

428
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,680
Speaker 1: out of the senior top of the route. He is

429
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: a route bully. He will just bang bang, and it

430
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: is yeah, get you out the way, muscle you let

431
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 1: you do it. Um. It's funny because now we have

432
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: down in Paris Campbell. So the fascination with Paris Campell,

433
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 1: So how do you deal with him? Paris Campbell ran

434
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 1: four three one. But Paris Campbell played the h back

435
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 1: position at Ohio State, which is the slot position. It's

436
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: the same position that Percy Harvin played in that offense

437
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 1: at Florida. When I look at Paris Campbell, when I

438
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 1: saw him at the combine, I was more impressed with

439
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: this route running than I thought I would be based

440
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: on the tape. However, there's a skill and a nuance

441
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 1: to playing in the slot, and so some of it

442
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: is on him. Does he have the nuance to be

443
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: a skilled player, a craftsman inside where he learns how

444
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: to set up people and understand timing, or is this

445
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: situation where look, I'm gonna throw you in there so

446
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: I can give you the ball on fly sweeps, bubble screens. Uh,

447
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 1: now plays where you can Oh, we kind of do work.

448
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 1: It is. It's an interesting deal, um that we have

449
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: to kind of vet out because like ultimately fit in

450
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: scheme one of the biggest things that you have to

451
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 1: do when it comes to evaluating. Yeah, and I think that,

452
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting to go back to Andy Isabella

453
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: for a second, just to show people how how how

454
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 1: these things when we when we look at certain skills,

455
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: what they can and can't do, and how they're going

456
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: to be utilized. This is really interesting, Andy Isabella. How

457
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: you said he should be used is really the same

458
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: way that DK Metcalf. When you think about there's and

459
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 1: here's a guy five eight versus six three nine pounds

460
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: and Isabella is a little short to be trying to

461
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 1: win deep. He can win with speed, but not if

462
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: it's jump ball situations deep. But you don't want a

463
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: whole lot of breakpoints for DK Metcalf. You don't want

464
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: a whole lot of breakpoints for Andy Isabella. So you

465
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 1: know it's it does It's not always about size and

466
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: speed and wait, it's about how you fit best into

467
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 1: a scheme. And you gotta put him in the right

468
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: opportunities because if you put DK Metcalf in multi breaking

469
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 1: routes and a lot of stop starts, that's not good.

470
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: DK Metcalf is a vertical playmaker, right. It's funny because

471
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: I was on Baltimore Radio and they asked me about

472
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 1: DK Metcalf and as I described, and they say, man,

473
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: that that kind of sounds like someone that we had here, yes,

474
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I mean yeah, maybe, like

475
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 1: because Perriman was a straight line vertical guy that didn't

476
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: do a great job of stopping and starting. But look,

477
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: if he you allow him to take the top off

478
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: the defense. He can do that, and I think they

479
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: found in Cleveland when they allowed him to be the

480
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: vertical stretch guy. He has success. He'll have to have

481
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 1: that same kind of role in Tampa and Nan and

482
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 1: he's there. I think what we have to do when

483
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: it comes to evaluating and and this is different because

484
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: we're on the media side and we're looking at them

485
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: great and for what they are, not for what you

486
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: want them to be, great and for exactly who they are.

487
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: DK metcalf is a vertical, cool playmaker. DK mcaff is

488
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: not a number one receiver. A J. Brown was the

489
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: number one receiver in that offense to Marcus Lodge was

490
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: another playmaker in that offense. But A J. Brown is

491
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: the number one and he's the one that would have

492
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: potential to maybe evolve into being a number one in

493
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: the next level. Mcaff and the other guy, they're complimentary players.

494
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: Um I want to you know, there's always guys in

495
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: a in a in a draft that and you've been

496
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: in this position where no matter where you rank them

497
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 1: and grade him, and people need to understand this. I

498
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: can put a grade on a player, but me personally,

499
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, Man, I wouldn't I don't want to not

500
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: not for me, not for me, But this is I'm

501
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 1: trying to do it for thirty two teams. There are

502
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: other guys who I might have in a fifth round.

503
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: That's not a slam at all. It's just where he

504
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: fits based on his you know, size, speed, all that.

505
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: But I love him, but I love them. But people,

506
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, that's what Bucky. People don't understand. I think

507
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,719
Speaker 1: when we deal with with talking about players like oh,

508
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: he's like a third or fourth and they and they

509
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: take it as a personal affront. You have to understand.

510
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: And scouts can love a player, Teams can love a

511
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 1: player in a certain round and say this is my

512
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: kind of guy and have a higher grade on another

513
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: guy and say I would never tell he's not a

514
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: draftaball guy for us. Yeah, because what you're trying to

515
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: do is approximate value, and the value is based on

516
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: how you think this guy will come in and fit

517
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: based on your team. And when we talk about round verge,

518
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: because we see it on the Twitter verse, like everyone

519
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: throws out a on my board this guy is a

520
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: first round pick or whatever. But understand, when you're rating

521
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: and evaluating guys, there's verbage and meaning that goes with

522
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: those round grades. So for instance, when I say a

523
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: guy is a top ten talent, it means to me one,

524
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: he's a blue chip player. He's a guy that I

525
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: would expect to be in the top five or top

526
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: ten and his at his respective position in the league

527
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: in two to three years. Like that's how you very

528
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: when you talk about a top ten player, he should

529
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: be one of the best five to ten players in

530
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: that position in the league when you take him there.

531
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: First round players should be a guy that should be

532
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: able to start right away from day one. The expectation

533
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: is he's going to start second round, eventual starter. Maybe

534
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: right situation, he starts year one, but year two he

535
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: needs to play and be on the field and be

536
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: a major contributor. Third round key contributed year one, eventual starter,

537
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: year two or three, and anything below the fourth round.

538
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: To be honest, it's a developmental player. It's a player

539
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: that I have to come in and play special teams

540
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: and if you get something out of that beyond that,

541
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: you're lucky. But you can bang the table. For those

542
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: kind of guys round two round, they're gonna make it.

543
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: They're gonna find a way to stick they're gonna do

544
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: some things. And here's some guys I would pound the

545
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: table for right now. I don't want to. I don't

546
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: want to get too deep into third, fourth, and fifth

547
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: rounds right now. I'll play the hits right now. T J.

548
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: Hawkinson is a guy that I would pound the table

549
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: for easy because he I think he's we talked about

550
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: we just got to we talked about Rob Gronkowski, right

551
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 1: why here is another why coming into the league when

552
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: Gronkowski is going out. Who is a willing blocker. I

553
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 1: think hast size to get bigger. He's not Gronk size,

554
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: but I do think he has a frame that can

555
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: take on more weight. But he is a guy that's

556
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: going to give you everything you want. He is a

557
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: plus athlete. He is a plus pass catcher, very good hands,

558
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: and then they've got he's got the ability to work

559
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: level one, level two and level three as well. And

560
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: you see that some in and uh and Iowa's offense.

561
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: And I just to me, I understand that the top

562
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: ten pick is not usually what you wanna where you

563
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: wanna have tight ends. Historically it's you don't see that

564
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: a lot. But he's a guy that I would pound

565
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: the table for especially in this draft, and say if

566
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: you need a tight end, or if you need a

567
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, a pass catcher, if you need a target.

568
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: I got no problem with Hockinson and I would do

569
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: it over Fan and over Earth. I have no have no,

570
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: have no problem because he is like when you think

571
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: about tight ends, in my mind, old school tight end

572
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: is a Mark Bervaro type, a guy that can line up.

573
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: He can be attached to. What do you like best

574
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: tight ends right now? Uh? Like, like which guys or

575
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: what do I want? Yeah? What do you want right now?

576
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: I want? I want to I want a classic Why

577
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: I want to classic wid they can line up in

578
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: has is a classic? Think he is a classic why.

579
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: I think he is easy to fall in love with.

580
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: I think it's easy to get the production out of him. Um.

581
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,959
Speaker 1: I think the harder guys to kind of figure out

582
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: all the guys that are the jumbo wide receivers, the

583
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: types that you don't know if they can go down there,

584
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: if they like it nasty, if they want to get noisy.

585
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: What do you think about f Um? I think I

586
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: think he's a jumbo wide receiver. I think he is

587
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: a wide receiver and a tight ends body, and I

588
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: think you have to treat him as such. And the

589
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,120
Speaker 1: reason that it worked in Iowa with both of those

590
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: guys is because you had the butt kicker and Hockinson

591
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: and then you had the finesse guy and no offense.

592
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with that, but I think you

593
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: have to understand exactly who they are to make sure

594
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: that you treat them the right way. How about another

595
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: guy that I'm I pound the table for, and you

596
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: may not be on the same page. I've I've noticed

597
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: when I talk to some teams about this guy, they

598
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: like them, but they don't have the same confiction I have. Yeah,

599
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: And that's Dalton Risner from a risinger from Kansas State.

600
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: You know, I remember feeling the same way about Cody

601
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: white Hair when he came out, and it's because when

602
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: I look at offensive lineman, there's a couple of things

603
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: that really stand out. I like to find guys who

604
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 1: have very strong hands, because if you have very strong hands,

605
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: you can control the point of a yeah. Yeah, And

606
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: he has good core strength, which you can have strong hands,

607
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: but if you're always trying to ride the bull like

608
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: Drew Samia from you, I see kind of right, like

609
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: hang on for that, you know, for a three count,

610
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: don't get bucked. Uh. And it's fine that that works too,

611
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: But I like guys with that strong core that can

612
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: keep them right here into the front, you know, squared up,

613
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: and he's got both of those. And then I saw

614
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: there's nasty on tape. But then I at the Senior Bowl,

615
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: I got to see what kind of dude he was

616
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: and one on one drills and team and he's a dude,

617
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: and he's a guy fits into the offensive line culture.

618
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: And he's a guy that I would pound the table

619
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: for because I know he can play right tackle. Now,

620
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: some people might argue, but I think I feel confident

621
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: he can play right tackle. He has played some center

622
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: as well, just like Cody white Hair. And then I

623
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: don't think it's a stretch to believe he can play guards.

624
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: I think he's a four for one player. He can't

625
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: play left tackle, he could play both guards, spots, center,

626
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: and right tackle. You give me that kind of roster flexibility.

627
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: It's kind of like I feel like with Jonah Williams,

628
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: where you can discuss where you want to play him

629
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: if you want. I just think he can block Jonah

630
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: and I kind of feel the same way about Risner,

631
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: but I think his football character and his football his demeanor,

632
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: and then some of the physical traits that he has

633
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: as a as a blocker. Every those boxes are getting

634
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: checked off from me, and I feel confident because he's

635
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: this is the kind of guy that isn't gonna bust

636
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: to me. And that's why I found the table for him. Look,

637
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: and those guys are easy to fall in love with.

638
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: They're really easy to fall in love, especially at a

639
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: certain position of the draft. Certain position of the draft

640
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: is easy to fall in love with. And I have

641
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: learned um justin watching people who have done this really

642
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: really well, to teams that win championships, you can't go

643
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: wrong taking good football players, like you can never go

644
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: wrong saying, like, you know what, I'm gonna just take

645
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: really good football players, and I'm gonna deal with it.

646
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: And sometimes they're not the body beautiful guys. They're not

647
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 1: the guys that are going to win the beauty pageant

648
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: early on. But if you assemble a team that has

649
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: just really good football players, you can win a ton

650
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: of games. And so the draft process is a little

651
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: bit about finding good football players, but it's a lot

652
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: about the beauty pageant, and the good evaluators are able

653
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: to kind of separate those boxes and kind of put

654
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: guys in the right boxes where they're mixed of the

655
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: beauty pageant. But they really are really good football players.

656
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: And so you listed two of your guys. Yeah, there's

657
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: another guy on the list that you gotta talk about. Savage,

658
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: the Ultimate Savage, Darnell Savage. Man, this guy, like okay,

659
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: like it was late, I was popping in some tape

660
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: I was watching them and Darnell Savage from Maryland. I'm

661
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: kicking myself because like, look, this is a long arguer's process,

662
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: a lot of players. Again, you're you're, you're in it.

663
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: Like look, man, you're writing five in your profiles, which

664
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: is absolutely bananas. I don't envy you in that. I'm

665
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: trying to get the top one fifty down so I

666
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: can feel good about it as if it's a draft board.

667
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: But this kid from Maryland, Darnell Savage, like, I'm just

668
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: gonna read, got your note, you got your notebook out

669
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: of my notes, get my highlight in my pin one.

670
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: I put the combine numbers down, and numbers are stupid

671
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: four three, six thirty nine and a half inch vertical.

672
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: So right away I'm like, oh yeah, that's super ex

673
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: alerts you. It alerts you. But then you go and

674
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: you watch the tape, and I wrote down a plus athlete.

675
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: You see the speed up he ran a four three six. Yeah,

676
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: I didn't even like on like so that's what happens.

677
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: We're so in the weise. So we we pre taped

678
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: a little bit on our on our combine while the

679
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: safeties were going on because we had all get to

680
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: their point. And I'm like, yeah, I know Savage can run.

681
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: I know he should hit about a four or five one,

682
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: four three six. He's only behind the guy, but like

683
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: point oh five. That that like like you you're talking

684
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: about like being in the mix. So then you're like,

685
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: all right, well you like he's super alisted to see

686
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: the tape, and when you look at the tape, it

687
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: jumps like the speed quickness burst shows up the range.

688
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: I wrote down numbers the numbers, no problem, quick key

689
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: and diagnose aggressive reactions in the whole good hitter, good tackler,

690
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: And I wrote this, he's an a SAP player. When

691
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: he sees it, he is there a SAP. I use

692
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: the word urgency. I mean he is he is right there.

693
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 1: I think he can play man to man coverage from

694
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: the Nickel spot and and coming up. Because everyone loves comparisons,

695
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: I wrote down Marcus May only because Marcus May was

696
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: a guy that was real solid, we was smart. He

697
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: can control it. Without having talked to Darniell, I just

698
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: get the sense that he is a high i Q

699
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: football player to go with all that athleticism. He is

700
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: someone that we haven't talked about a lot, but I

701
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: believe the buzz is going to build around him and

702
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: he's gonna be one of those guys that when we

703
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: hear his name called some people and they also are

704
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: gonna be like what now. So I still have to

705
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: do great changes for safeties and corners, right, and so

706
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: my NFL draft tracker, depending on when you hear this

707
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: this podcast, I'm I'm still making changes based on combine stuff.

708
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: I've been waiting for some pro days to get through.

709
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: And when I look at all these numbers, you know,

710
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: one of the biggest numbers that jumps out to me

711
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: is I remember there was a thought he was estimated.

712
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: The estimated number I had from a scout on on

713
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: him was under five ten, which was a concern. The

714
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: combined he's five ten and three quarters him a five

715
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: eleven and one ninety eight. He ran at almost two

716
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: d pounds. Just ran a four three six, So right

717
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: off the bat, and you know this goes right at

718
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: the gate. Right off the gate, I'm okay. I'm getting

719
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: to be okay with the one area I had a

720
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: concern on, which was his size. So if I'm okay

721
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: with his size, then I gotta make a huge push

722
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: after these numbers are out there. And this is what

723
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: people struggle with. Wait, well, whatever you had and before

724
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: the combine, whatever the tape says, No, you don't understand.

725
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: There's different levels of competition at these guys face when

726
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: it's an apples to apples, compare some of their athletic

727
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: talent and we get an actual idea of their actual height,

728
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: weight and speed and quickness. That fine tunes um, that

729
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: fine tunes the evaluation. And for for me, Darnell Savage

730
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: was a guy. When I watched him in in December,

731
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: I thought, Man, Darnell Savage has just really a great

732
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: football i Q. A great coverage i Q is what

733
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: I call it. But he's also really twitchy and really aggressive,

734
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: and he can play in the slot, so he can

735
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: play on the back end. He can play as a

736
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: slot corner. And now the size component is answered for

737
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: me as well in an affirmative way where I wasn't

738
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: really sure, to be honest with you, that is a

739
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: big push for me. On Darnell Savage. He's a really

740
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: good football player, really good football player, plays fast, tough.

741
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: I didn't see him back down from tackles. He comes up.

742
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: He makes big hits. And even though like ideally, um,

743
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: when we think about safety, you wanted to be a

744
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: little bigger man. Look, two hundred two oh five is

745
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: big enough. He'll learn how to give, like when it's

746
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: time to blow people up, when it's time to just

747
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: be a solid tackler. But he's terrific. So then, speaking

748
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: of safeties, I have a safety that I believe I'll

749
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: pound the table for Taylor Rap from you. Dub Taylor

750
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 1: Rap is like my Dalton Risner. You just know he's

751
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: going to be like, he's not gonna let you down.

752
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: You know he's gonna play, he's gonna be around it,

753
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 1: and he is always around it. And when I looked

754
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: at his numbers, it's interesting because he's obviously probably not

755
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: going to be fast because he didn't run at the combine,

756
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: which is fine, but he popped a thirty five in vertical,

757
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: nine seven broad jump, six eight two three cone and

758
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: a three nine nine short shuttle. Anything's up for is

759
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: absolutely getting after it. So you know that he has

760
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: short airy quickness in bursts when I turn on the tape,

761
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: high I Q playmaker, great instincts, ball skills, love the

762
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: vision and awareness. Tough physical thumper. The other thing that

763
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: stood out to me he is always around the always

764
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 1: always around the ball, and so when it came to

765
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: him to come up with a comparison, there are two

766
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: guys that came to mind. The first one I saw

767
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: him running around and making big hits. I was like, man,

768
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: this dude is just like Harrison Smith was when he

769
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: came out from Notre Dame. The other thing that came

770
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: to mind when I saw him around the ball. Man,

771
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: I was doing the West Coast when Eric Weddle was

772
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: at Utah, and I don't know if Eric Weddle, just

773
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 1: in his football pants carries around like a lucky rabbit

774
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 1: foot and a shamrock and and a lucky horse shoe,

775
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: but the ball always found him when he was at

776
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: Utah Taylor Rap. The ball just finds him, tip overthrow, fumble,

777
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: you look up number seven or two. He is always

778
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: in the mix, and so there's something too when guys

779
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: are always in the mix. He is a guy that

780
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: I believe, first round, second, wherever you take him, he's

781
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: gonna be a start in this league for ten years.

782
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: He's gonna make a handful of Pro Bowls, and he's

783
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: gonna make a ton of plays in the middle of

784
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: the field. You know, he's just not out of position either.

785
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: And when you watch him, it's it's that football IQ.

786
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: He's been starting since he was a freshman. I remember

787
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: I had to do a summer series where I looked

788
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: at the players to watch at every position, and I'm

789
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, and and I do this, I'm kind of

790
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: if you're not a guy who's in the draft, I

791
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: know you a little bit, but I don't. I don't

792
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: know you a lot, especially if you're a freshman. And

793
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: so when I came across Taylor Rap and I watched

794
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: this tape, I'm like, WHOA, you know this is gonna

795
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: be a guy for me to pay attention to because

796
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: he just had the urgency and the instincts much much

797
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: like Savage, Darniell Savage, he just had those elements that

798
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 1: you look for in a safety. He was safe as

799
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: a safety. He's a very good open field tackler as well,

800
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: very good, very good open field tackler, which I think

801
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: sometimes people look at ball production and and they fall

802
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: in love with interceptions, right, But a safety, one of

803
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: the most important jobs is are you big enough, physical

804
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: enough and agile enough to make open field tackles and

805
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: to withstand the punishment. And I think the answer is

806
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: yes on all three for two of the Rap Yeah,

807
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he can do all of that stuff.

808
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: He can give you exactly what you're looking for, does

809
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: a great job of making plays. I love him. I

810
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: love what he brings to the table. If you gave

811
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: me the combination where I could take two for one,

812
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: if this was we were a targeting day, we're having

813
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: a special give me Rap and Savage, and I can

814
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: play with both of those guys on my back end,

815
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: and I would be good with it for the next

816
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: ten years. You can you think Taylor Rap goes day

817
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: two or you think he could sneak in the day one.

818
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: I think he can sneak in a Day one four

819
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: team that really likes him. I think I think he's

820
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: a Chung. Could he be a potential replacement for Patrick Chung?

821
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: I mean Patrick Patrick Chung. Could he be a replacement

822
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: for Patrick? He's kind and kind of He's kind of

823
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 1: a Patrio got high Q typically understated first round picks

824
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: on on a safety, but you never you never know

825
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: it that when I watched him, because I thought he

826
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: had some of the same elements as Patrick Chung, and

827
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: I felt like I was watching a Patriot when I

828
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: watched Taylor rap a little bit. I mean, unbelievable when

829
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: it comes to it. Uh, I just man, I just

830
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: think he's a very very solid football player who going

831
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 1: to have a chance to make a ton of plays,

832
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: make a ton of plays in the league. Yeah, let

833
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: me um, speaking of the Patriots. So my man aunt

834
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: Oliver's got a pro day coming up Mary University of Houston,

835
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: and the internet and Twitter got mad at me, because

836
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: Twitter gets mad about a lot of Twitter. Twitter is angry.

837
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: They're always on the lookout. So I put out there

838
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: and I and I thought about this before I put

839
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: it out there, and I said, you know what, I

840
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: want to have this on I want to have this

841
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: right now. In what was it? I want to say

842
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: it was sometime in January. These months I'll run together

843
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: for me Now, I said, I want this on the

844
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: record so they can put they can hit, you can

845
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: act me old takes exposed all you want. You can

846
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: add them. That's fine, I don't care. I wanted this

847
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: out on the record. I said, I believe that Ed

848
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: Oliver should garner some attention as a potential inside linebacker.

849
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying I think he's a three technique, right.

850
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: I think that's what he is. He's an upfield defensive linement.

851
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: But people misconstrued this tweet as being I think he's

852
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: got to change positions, and in Twitter had to get

853
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 1: mad at me because they thought I was somehow clowning

854
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: at Oliver, which it was the exact opposite. Now I

855
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: recognize it as smaller, there's no getting around that. Bucky.

856
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: He's not as long, but he has rare athletic gifts,

857
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: rare quickness, rare explosiveness, rare speed. He works out with

858
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: a wide receiver coach, the footwork king in Houston on

859
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: the ya I mean, and it's uh like he's out

860
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: catching passes like a matchup tight end. And so I

861
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: all I put out there is I said, it reminds

862
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: me when Teddy Bruski made that move from Desert Swarm

863
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: at d N too inside linebacker for the for the

864
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: New England Patriots. And that's when three fours are real

865
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: three fours. There weren't a hybrid fronts. I mean, he

866
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: was a three four inside backer, and I thought, I

867
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: bet you Ed Oliver could do the same thing because

868
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: he's crazy instinctive. He gets a read on where the

869
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: ball is going immediately. He has excellent initial twitch and

870
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: initial a quickness and burst, and then he's got the

871
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: strength and power to handle it, you know, to step

872
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: up in the hole and take on guys, take on

873
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: climbing blockers because he can get into them quicker than

874
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: they can get into him, which is a big part

875
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: of beating climbing blockers. And so I said, I think

876
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: he should garner some attention. Now. I've talked to some

877
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: NFL teams, and especially three four teams who they say,

878
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: oh no, we're putting a grade on him as an

879
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: inside linebacker. Doesn't even draft him. But we've got multiple grades.

880
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: We've got multi position grades on at Oliver, So I

881
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: want to get your thoughts on this. He was asked

882
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: s to combine after everyone got mad at me. He

883
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: was asked, would you we understand you've been asked to

884
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: play some linebacker in your prote He goes, absolutely, will

885
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: you do it whatever they want me to do? I will,

886
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: I will be So he was two eight seven at

887
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: the combine, which is heavier than what he played at

888
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: I was told by people on the program he played

889
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: in the two seventies, so so he weighed to eight

890
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 1: seven Bucky. But he didn't do his quickness and speed drill.

891
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: So I'm curious to see what he comes in at

892
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: weight wise when he does do all these workouts and

893
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: quickness drills. Because I know he wants to get drafted

894
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: and should get drafted as a defensive lineman. But I

895
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 1: want to ask you, what do you think about my

896
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: about my um my analysis that if you think outside

897
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: the box, he might have the ability to do that,

898
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: or some suggest he might be James Harrison off the edge.

899
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm willing to go there yet,

900
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: you know. So it's it's funny because and looking at

901
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: him and really thinking about his game. I believe he's

902
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 1: a guy that I want to leave him right where

903
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: he is. I want to do something. I would do

904
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: something a little out of the box in terms of

905
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: I would put him a three technique in a penetrating

906
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: scheme and I'm gonna let him hunt. Yeah, I just

907
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: think he's a good player. I think you mess him

908
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: up if you try to do too much. Now, it

909
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: certainly has been done. We saw Teddy Bruski. I think

910
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 1: Matt Millen was a guy that was a nose tackle

911
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 1: that kind of played and stood up. But I just

912
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: think the kid is so good at what he does

913
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: with the penetration. I think he got to go back

914
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: and look at his sophomore film to really get a

915
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: true sense of what he is. He is a terrific

916
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 1: player and play and I just think you can't go wrong.

917
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: But the guy like that. You said when before we

918
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: were on the air, you said, you just kind of

919
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: forget about that Oliver because he had some injuries this year, Right,

920
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: you forget, You just forget how good he was, right,

921
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: And you gotta go back. And when I went and

922
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: watched him on tape, sa him working off of this year,

923
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,959
Speaker 1: I know the numbers you know, his career sacked numbers

924
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: aren't that great. The production from a sack standpoint, it's

925
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: not great. And then you turn its tape on and

926
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, I know Ed's probably gonna be im.

927
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: I'll probably have like seventeen eighteen, nineteen twenties something like that.

928
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: He's a good football player. And then I finished my tape,

929
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: and then I look at comps of other guys I've

930
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: drafted over the years, and I started trying to figure

931
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: out where where I see him, Like I'll look at

932
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: my old defensive tackle numbers and I'm like, nope, he's

933
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: better than him, better than him, better than him, He's

934
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: right about that same level. And when my number came out,

935
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: I had him like eleventh in this draft, a lot

936
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: higher than I expected the twelfth. And the reason is simple.

937
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,240
Speaker 1: My problems are, he's not big when you come downhill

938
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: at him. He has some issues. He got to get

939
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: better with his hands. He he's not as good as

940
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: with his hands as he needs to be. And I

941
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: think as a pass rusher, he's really relied more on

942
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: his quickness and athletic ability than than moves and stacking

943
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: moves together. But then man when you turn a tape on.

944
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever studied anybody more explosive

945
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: in the initial stages of a snap than at Oliver

946
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: off the snap, the way he gets into people, the

947
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: initial power he generates, the leverage, and then the twitch.

948
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever seen that from a

949
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: defensive tackle, that explosion right off the snap. I mean,

950
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: he's super explosive, like snap can. Anticipation, to me, is critical.

951
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: It is one of the most important factors, especially if

952
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: you're a guy that kind of plays with your speed

953
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: and your quickness. If you can learn how to anticipate

954
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: the count, von Miller is exceptional and that when you

955
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: go inside, Geno Atkins is exceptional. That and so I

956
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: compare ed Oliver to Geno Atkins, and Geno Atkins has

957
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: come down a little bit. But in Gino, you're talking

958
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: about a guy that is two time All Pro, seven

959
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: time Pro bowler. I gotta has seventy one career sex.

960
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: I could see Ed Oliver having that kind of production.

961
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: Four team What um are you bothered at all? Like?

962
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: What about his size and length? Lack of size and length?

963
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: Does that bother? Because the one area, let me get

964
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: to a weakness. I feel like ed Oliver wins early,

965
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: but if you if he doesn't finish, you know, finished

966
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: with I called three phases, right, He wins the first phase,

967
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: if he doesn't continue to win in a second phase

968
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: so that he can finish, he doesn't. He has the

969
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: initial power, but then the lack of length. I don't

970
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: know that he has sustained power because if a guy's

971
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: three across from there's only so much you can do

972
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: in your fifty pounds ladder. And it's not fair for

973
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: everyone to act like he's Aaron Donald, because Aaron Donald's

974
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: that's a freak daddy. From a strength standpoint, Aaron is

975
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: one of the most rare dudes I've ever seen. And

976
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: I don't even know if it's fair to keep for

977
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: people to keep calling at Oliver the next Aaron Donald.

978
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: I don't really think that's fair to add Oliver. No,

979
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it's fair to him, and

980
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: I can see why, because what has happened Aaron Donald

981
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: creates a pathway for ed Oliver and to be considered

982
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 1: at the top, because remember Aaron Donald, and I just

983
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: remember at the beginning, when I saw Aaron Donald at

984
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh and you see all the tackle for losses, all

985
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: the disruptive production, all of that other stuff. Even then,

986
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: when I first started, ground was like put bottom in

987
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: the first round. Yea, even though you see all this,

988
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: because you're like, man, he's six foot hold up. I

989
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: don't know if you can hold up. Now. That was

990
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: before I saw me to sing Bowl. Then you go

991
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: to the Senior Bowl. He wears everybody out, all weak,

992
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: and you're like a little bit. Then he goes to

993
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: the combine and he puts on a legendary performance and

994
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: you're like wow, and so you find yourself. Now he finishes.

995
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: I think he was twelfth overall. When that's the thing

996
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: with ed Oliver Nanda, Aaron Donald has had that kind

997
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: of success. Teams can be like, hey, look, I know

998
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: he's a little undersized, but put him in here. He's

999
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: allowed to play. And because I think Aaron Donald plays

1000
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: a certain way. And once again we're not saying Ed

1001
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: Oliver is Aaron Donald, but Aaron Donald is the guy

1002
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: that plays on the edges. When you walk him, he

1003
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: ain't really trying to stack and double team. They're using

1004
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: him on the move to allow him to use his

1005
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: speak but that he has tremendous, tremendous power. He watched

1006
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: his body. You look at him and you're like, man,

1007
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: I just know you could be a d tack of

1008
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: with apps. Yeah, but he looks like I mean, he

1009
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: is unbelievable. I don't know when they're gonna put a

1010
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: cape on him and roll him out into a Marvel comic.

1011
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: But but it is that kind of stuff. And so

1012
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: with a guy like Ed Oliver, creativity is necessary. He's

1013
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: not gonna be for everybody. But if you have a

1014
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: good imagination, if you're willing to say, look, this is

1015
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: what he does really well, he could be a dominant player.

1016
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: He's gonna be interesting. He didn't have the same production

1017
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: as Oliver, he I mean as a as Aaron Donald.

1018
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: He didn't have a Senior Bowl. He didn't perform at

1019
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: the Combine. He willed this pro day, so he didn't

1020
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: get to show out in certain big stages like Aaron

1021
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: Donald did. However, he's also not gonna play knows zero

1022
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: technique where you're basically lying on a block like Houston did.

1023
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: So I expect that production on the next level. I

1024
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 1: expect defensive coordinators to put him in position to make

1025
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: more disruptive plays for sure, and I think I think

1026
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: it's certainly will help. Now. I have to say this

1027
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: because when I was in a deep dive, I looked

1028
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: at it. Oliver Jerry Tillery from Notre Dame. What are

1029
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 1: you doing with Jerry? Look? Man? Like you talked about

1030
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: guys I stand on table for I know everyone would

1031
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: talk about his off field exploits. He's gone to all

1032
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: these countries and all this other stuff. I think what

1033
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: you ideally want and a football player is you want

1034
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 1: a guy that is a nice guy off the field.

1035
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: But then when they stepped between the lines, they have

1036
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: what I call that Craig Craig switch where what they

1037
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: do on the field is not in their normal thing,

1038
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 1: Like there's something where they go to a dark place.

1039
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: When I look at Tiller, you want to be a

1040
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: little uncomfortable with, like like when I go when I

1041
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: go to like and I didn't notice because I interviewed

1042
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: him and I was like, hey man, he's such a

1043
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: nice dude, and you look at the tape. He had

1044
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: that switch switch. Yeah, and then when you dig in

1045
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: the background and you're like coaches had to talk to

1046
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: him because he was a little extra on the thing. Hey, Jy,

1047
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: you know you can't. You can't step on people on

1048
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: the field like Tillery's stepping on dude, the nice guy

1049
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,760
Speaker 1: that speaks a million different languages is going to twelve

1050
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: or thirteen different countries. And then you watch the tape

1051
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: and he's wearing people out. You watched the Stanford game, Well,

1052
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: the Stanford game is almost not even fair because he's

1053
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: just them the business. He should be based on Stanford.

1054
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: Now what you come to find by the end of

1055
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: the year is Stanford z line is one of their

1056
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: weak girls. But when we all watched the Stanford game

1057
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: like four weeks and I'm like, this, is this the

1058
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,399
Speaker 1: first pick of the pick or is he the third

1059
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: like one, two or three? It's not gonna be both

1060
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: because we weren't even talking about Kylie. And then the

1061
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: tape gets a little inconsistent at the back end. But

1062
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 1: what you said, I mean those flashes of that baby

1063
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: Hue strength where he's just bang, bang bang, and he's

1064
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: just throwing cats around, and it reminded me of Chris

1065
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: Jones when I was watching Chris Jones and mistakes. That

1066
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: is a good comparison because because it's funny, you said

1067
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: Chris Jones. I wrote down Fletcher Cox and only reason

1068
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: I wrote down Fletcher Cocks because I did. I said,

1069
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: let me go back and compare their numbers, right, really

1070
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: very similar. He's a better athlete than Fletcher Cock. Oh,

1071
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: his testing was ridiculous. He's a better athlete to Fletcher

1072
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: Cox based on the numbers. And then you look him

1073
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: long power player, great hands does it. So I was like, okay,

1074
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,919
Speaker 1: let me pop in Michigan. He throwing them out the club,

1075
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: to get out the club. Now it's all early in

1076
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: the year, just telling them to get out, get out,

1077
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: get out, get out. And then the only thing and

1078
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: this hangs with me and I had old wy scout

1079
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: told me one time, great the flashes, because if they

1080
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,439
Speaker 1: can do it once, thank you do it again. He's

1081
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: the flash guy. He's a flasher. And so you're like,

1082
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: it's like says He's like, but I've seen him do it,

1083
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: and so he's another one that I'm like, Man, this dude,

1084
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: I just don't see how his his traits and his

1085
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: testing and his flashes don't get him in the first.

1086
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: You have to put him in the first, have to

1087
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: put him into a lot of people have him out

1088
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: of the first But like, I don't see how the

1089
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: Patriots or the Cold or the Sea Hawk teams that

1090
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: love those traits and those and those six five like

1091
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: thirty five thirtive minutes aren't there has to be a

1092
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: place for him in the first round. It's one of

1093
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: those things. And he played, by the way with a

1094
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: torn labor and that second half of that season, and

1095
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: then he got the shoulder surgery right after the combine.

1096
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: And see that's what scouts. I would think NFL people

1097
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: are taking that into account. They have to. They have to.

1098
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 1: So I mean, you look at the entire body of work,

1099
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: but yeah, the flashes, if you've done it before, that

1100
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: means you can do it again. Absolutely, you can do

1101
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: it again. I mean, lance Man, like we're about to

1102
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: set a record for like the longest podcast. But this

1103
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: is great man, anytime we have a chance to talk

1104
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: about it. So uh look we will we will stop

1105
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: it here, but look, guys, make sure you tune in.

1106
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 1: Uh we gotta tell you, like tomorrow, certain Tuesday, you

1107
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: can check out MCS three sixty on Duwayne Haskins, all

1108
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: that work that we've done on him, all the teammates

1109
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: and coaches that we're able to talk to get a

1110
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: full in depth perspective on Duwayne Haskins, who he is

1111
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: and who he might be in the pros. Also remember

1112
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: check out all of our content NFL dot com Slash

1113
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: MCS video or YouTube dot com Slash NFL. Make sure

1114
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: you download and subscribe Apple Podcast or your favorite podcasts app.

1115
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: That's today's Move the Stick podcast. Be sure to tune

1116
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 1: in later in the week when we hit you with

1117
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: another podcast