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Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Bob Left That podcast.

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Speaker 1: My yesterday is fall care full. Good to happen here, Huck?

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Speaker 1: How good? So you have a new album one on one.

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Speaker 1: What inspires you to continue to write and record new

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Speaker 1: music in this crazy musical era? I'm not sure. I

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Speaker 1: do ask myself that same question every now and again.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things. Um A, I've

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Speaker 1: on a bit of a mission to have my own

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Speaker 1: body of work. Um you know, I've been in a

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Speaker 1: several bends, as you probably know, and I've had the

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Speaker 1: great pleasure and honor to play with some fantastic people

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Speaker 1: over the years, even song you know, lead vocal on

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Speaker 1: some you know, quite well known song and everything. But

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Speaker 1: I realized I came to the conclusion that I didn't

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Speaker 1: have um any rights to a lot of these things.

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Speaker 1: And also I just wanted to have my own, my

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Speaker 1: own body of work, my own catalog. Yeah, that's one reason.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about body work. Especially about eighteen months ago,

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Speaker 1: you put out five live albums simultaneously. Tell me the

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Speaker 1: back story there. Well, the backstory is that for I

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Speaker 1: guess for the last twenty years of a of a

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Speaker 1: very long career. I started to release my solo stuff

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Speaker 1: on my own label. It's a very small time thing. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we also started to record um our live shows.

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Speaker 1: I mean I've done. I started touring constantly to established

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Speaker 1: myself because even back then, nobody knew to who the

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Speaker 1: hell Paul Carrot was. They may have known the songs

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Speaker 1: or the voice or what have you been, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know the name. So we started to record all the shows.

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Speaker 1: And my good friend, a guy called Peter Van Hook

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Speaker 1: is kind of I guess you would call him a manager. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's my mate basically of thirty odd years. Okay, now,

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Speaker 1: he ultimately was a musician. Then he produced records with

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Speaker 1: Rod Origin. How do you know Peter van Hook? Well,

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Speaker 1: I first met Peter when at the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: Mike and the Mechanics project. Peter was the drummer, original

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Speaker 1: drummer in Mike and the Mechanics. He was a very

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Speaker 1: kind of busy session guys back in those days when

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Speaker 1: sessions were the thing, and he played I think for

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Speaker 1: about ten years with Van Morrison and I met him

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Speaker 1: at the photo session for the Mike and the Mechanics

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Speaker 1: album and I took an instant disliked okay, because he

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Speaker 1: was talking away in this he was talking to the

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Speaker 1: keyboard player Adrian Lee in this language. I didn't understand.

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Speaker 1: It was all about Middy and all that sort of stuff,

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Speaker 1: and I had not yet been introduced to Middy. I

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Speaker 1: was still very low tech. But anyway, that's when I

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Speaker 1: met Pete and but I got to know him and

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Speaker 1: really love him on as I got to know him,

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Speaker 1: and he's my biggest fan, is my biggest supporter. He

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Speaker 1: had the unenviable task of sifting through all these recordings

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Speaker 1: and and and put together this sort of compilation of

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Speaker 1: life stuff. I be honest with you, I've not heard

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Speaker 1: a lot of it because I understand that you understand good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if I write something, I don't reread it.

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Speaker 1: It's too crazy, exactly exactly, okay, But I five albums simultaneously,

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Speaker 1: and what has been the reception there too, We had

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Speaker 1: a pretty good response to it. Actually, Um, why five albums?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, You'll have to ask him. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've been, as I said, on a mission to establish

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Speaker 1: myself as a singer songwriter independently, and it's involved a

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Speaker 1: lot of gigs. So we've we've recorded a lot of shows.

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Speaker 1: There's been a lot of songs. I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Somebody told me it's something like seventeen or eighteen albums

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Speaker 1: we've released on my own label, so we have a

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Speaker 1: lot of songs. Well, I will say, on those five

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Speaker 1: live albums and I'm talking to I'm talking to you,

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Speaker 1: do sound like kype like I'm blowing smoke up your

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Speaker 1: rear around. They're phenomenal. I mean really the only problem

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Speaker 1: with those albums is people haven't heard of because I'm

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Speaker 1: surprised at the quality of the live performance, almost like

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Speaker 1: a studio performance. Well I'm surprised. Um, that's that's good

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Speaker 1: to know. Maybe I should give them a listen. But

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Speaker 1: as I say, we've made quite a few albums in

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Speaker 1: the in the studio. But as you say, they're not

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Speaker 1: really that well known in the States, which is to

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Speaker 1: my great regrets. Okay, let's go back to go twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, going independent. Tell me that story. Well, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I I just meandered along there for many years.

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Speaker 1: As I said, got to play with a lot of

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Speaker 1: great people. I'd made one or two albums for several

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Speaker 1: record companies, and the case would usually be that would

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Speaker 1: make an album. They'd released a couple of singles and

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Speaker 1: then I'd move on or they dropped me. It's probably

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Speaker 1: the way it really was. And I got to the

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Speaker 1: point where I thought that I made it. I started

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Speaker 1: to make an album here at home. It's called Satisfy

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Speaker 1: My Soul. And I liked the way it sounded. I

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Speaker 1: just and I didn't like the thought of having to

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Speaker 1: go around to record companies trying to hawk it because

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Speaker 1: I knew what they would say, Well, it's fine, but

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe you need to do this, or maybe

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Speaker 1: you need to that or the other. And I liked

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Speaker 1: it the way it was. And this guy, Peter van Hook,

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Speaker 1: he said he had some experience, he had had a

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Speaker 1: little jazz label, and he said, well, why don't you

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Speaker 1: just do it yourself, just release it yourself. And at

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Speaker 1: the time it was a bit scary because people weren't

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Speaker 1: really doing that and I had no idea how you

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Speaker 1: released a record. Um, but we did it. We we

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Speaker 1: just started. It was, as I say, very small time.

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Speaker 1: We just got it an independent radio plugger to take

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Speaker 1: the record around and we got a a great airplay

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Speaker 1: on the mainstream radio here in the UK, and things

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Speaker 1: sort of you know grew from that. Okay, let's go

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Speaker 1: back to something you said earlier, the body of work.

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Speaker 1: I understand, But what was your motivation at this point

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Speaker 1: in your life to want to create a body of work? Well,

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Speaker 1: there were several things. I mean, as I said, I

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Speaker 1: realized that I had contributed to a lot of other

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Speaker 1: projects and other people's careers, and I was happy to

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Speaker 1: do that. I was just happy to be involved in

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Speaker 1: music and I loved it, every minute of it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But when I started this little label of mine, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to release a compilation of stuff that I've

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Speaker 1: done over the years, and I was happy to license

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Speaker 1: it from and pay the royalties to the to the majors.

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Speaker 1: But then a couple of things happened. And when that

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Speaker 1: I wanted that there were a couple of tracks, significant

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Speaker 1: tracks that I've been involved with, and I wasn't allowed

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Speaker 1: to license them and put them on my And that's

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Speaker 1: that's kind of when the penny really dropped and I thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, I need to have my own stuff that

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Speaker 1: I control and then and that's mine. Okay, so twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, you start your own label. Traditionally, musicians are

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Speaker 1: good musicians. They're not good business people. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of business involved in running your own label. Who does

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Speaker 1: that business? Well? As I said, it's it started on

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Speaker 1: a very small time level. Um, I didn't really have

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Speaker 1: a clue how it worked, how they're not some bolts

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Speaker 1: of it worked, but it was quite simple. We uh

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Speaker 1: just got a distribution kind of deal, you know, somebody

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Speaker 1: who was prepared to put this stuff out. And we

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Speaker 1: employ Lloyd, a couple of independent radio pluggers that we

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Speaker 1: had worked with in the in the other bands and

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Speaker 1: that we knew well. And we started from there. And

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Speaker 1: I'm was quite prepared to get my hands dirty. I'm

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Speaker 1: from a very kind of working class northern upbringing. My

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Speaker 1: folks actually were kind of independent inasmuch as my father

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Speaker 1: was what you call a painter and decorator, you know,

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Speaker 1: you would paint people's houses. And my mom ran a

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Speaker 1: small store where we sold paint and wallpaper. And we

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Speaker 1: lived in the back of the store in a in

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Speaker 1: a one room at the back with two bedrooms in

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Speaker 1: an attic at the outside, toilet and no bathroom and

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Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. And I saw my folks,

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Speaker 1: you know, after kind of what they'd gone through, who

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Speaker 1: they've gone through, the Depression and then World War two,

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Speaker 1: and and they work their backsides off just to make things.

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Speaker 1: So I definitely saw how hard they worked, and and

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Speaker 1: it's kind of in my genes too. I was prepared to,

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Speaker 1: as I say, get my hands dirty and and and

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Speaker 1: and try and build something. Okay, So your first experience

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Speaker 1: with the first independent label, do you feel, in terms

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Speaker 1: of the effect of the independent as you put its

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Speaker 1: song pluggers, etcetera, that you got as good as shot

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Speaker 1: as you got when you were a label. Um, probably

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Speaker 1: got as good as shot as I did as a

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Speaker 1: solo artist, but I'm not as as with the bands.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for example, Mike and the Mechanics. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Mike is the guitar player in Genesis, and so they

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Speaker 1: had a lot of help from record companies. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had TV spots and the record were given a

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Speaker 1: real good chance, and we had great airplace. So no,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't getting that. I didn't have that kind of clout,

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Speaker 1: but I had a little bit of momentum from involvement

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Speaker 1: with this such as them, and and it grew, it

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Speaker 1: really grew. I mean it wasn't my intention to Um,

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Speaker 1: I've never chased I never wanted to be famous or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. But I just wanted to uh survive

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Speaker 1: and make music and have a good band and do

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Speaker 1: my shows and make my albums, as simple as that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're making your albums, you're paying for the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: So what kind of budget for one of these albums

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Speaker 1: is there? Well, um, for example, with the first one,

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Speaker 1: UH Satisfy my Soul, I made it here at home,

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Speaker 1: and I played more or less everything on the record,

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Speaker 1: and I engineered it myself. So it didn't cost a

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Speaker 1: whole lot to make the record, but as it doesn't

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Speaker 1: these days, if you kind of know what you're doing,

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Speaker 1: but you know, the problem is, or the difficulty is

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Speaker 1: to get it hurt. And so as an independent in

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Speaker 1: the UK, it wasn't too difficult because I had a

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Speaker 1: little bit of history and the UK is a small place,

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Speaker 1: so you know, we we had good support from the

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Speaker 1: mainstream radio, the BBC radio too, that's the big kind

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Speaker 1: of mainstream radio, and they liked what I did. It

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Speaker 1: worked for them, and subsequent albums also it really worked

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Speaker 1: very well for them. So but to try to expand

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Speaker 1: and internationally and and it's much more difficult. But I

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Speaker 1: had a thing going, you know, and now I was

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Speaker 1: getting support. I had a band that we're really into it.

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Speaker 1: We we love going to work. We toured up and

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Speaker 1: down the country, and I was I am happy. Okay,

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Speaker 1: a couple of things. You essentially put out an album

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Speaker 1: every other year. Most artists of the of your vintage

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Speaker 1: they don't put out new music at all. So what

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Speaker 1: keeps you writing and recording? Well, as I said, I'm

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Speaker 1: not exactly sure, but I think it's the fact that

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Speaker 1: although I've had, you know, little bits of success here

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Speaker 1: and there and a look inside the window, Um, I

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Speaker 1: never felt that I had that body of work that

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Speaker 1: I could point to, or that album that I could

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Speaker 1: say that is the quintessential album. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's purely just to keep self satisfaction. I still keep

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Speaker 1: thinking I could do better, you know. Okay, so this

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Speaker 1: lightest album, tell me about the making of that. First,

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Speaker 1: When do you decide you have a target when you

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Speaker 1: want to make a record, or you said or you

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Speaker 1: all probably write it off songs and saying it's time

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Speaker 1: to make a record. No, I just in this particular case,

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Speaker 1: I had no plan whatsoever to record last year. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I had a whole diary of life stuff. UM. I

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Speaker 1: had a UK too with my band. I was going

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Speaker 1: to go to Australia, Japan, Europe, and I also have

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Speaker 1: been involved quite a bit in the last nine years

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Speaker 1: or so playing keyboards and Eric Clapton's band and touring

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Speaker 1: around with him. So we had a whole year, um,

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Speaker 1: but thirty odd shows into the year. In the middle

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Speaker 1: of March, of course, the pandemic hit and venues were

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Speaker 1: closed down, and initially everybody thought, well, well, we'll be

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Speaker 1: back up there in a month or two, but that

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Speaker 1: pretty soon became obvious that that wasn't going to be

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Speaker 1: the case. And so having this little facility here I

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Speaker 1: have at home, which is fantastic, and I just started

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Speaker 1: coming in and playing with my toys and recording stuff

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Speaker 1: and it evolved into an album. Okay, So on these

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Speaker 1: albums to this day, you're the producer, you're the engineer.

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Speaker 1: To what degree are there outside musicians and what degree

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Speaker 1: you do everything yourself? On this particular album, it was

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Speaker 1: almost totally myself engineering, um, playing all the instruments, UM.

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Speaker 1: But towards the and and end of the thing. For

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Speaker 1: an example, I had written and recorded some horn parts,

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Speaker 1: but using samples in et cetera and didn't sound too

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Speaker 1: bad actually, But um, when it became possible to get

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Speaker 1: people in, I got in a horn section that i'd

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Speaker 1: worked before, include in the fantastic pee Wee Ellis, which

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Speaker 1: we can talk about at some point if you like.

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Speaker 1: And and I had one track that needed a real

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Speaker 1: good guitar solo solo on it, and I'm not a

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Speaker 1: great soloist. I got my friend Robbie macintosh to remotely

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Speaker 1: play a great solo on the guitar. But other than that,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much me. Robbie McIntyre, average white beard right.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, Um, you're thinking of the drummer. His name

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Speaker 1: escapes me. But Robbie McIntosh. No, he was in the Pretenders,

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Speaker 1: he was with Paul McCartney and play people like Nora

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Speaker 1: Jones and Dire Straits. And he's a fabulous musician. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So tell me about pee Wee Ellis. Well, pee Wee

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Speaker 1: I got to know through Peter Van Hook and because

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Speaker 1: they worked together with Van Morrison for many years. Pee

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Speaker 1: Wee of course as a legend. He worked with James

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Speaker 1: Brown and did some of those incredible horn arrangements, and

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Speaker 1: Peter introduced me to Pee Wee on my previous album,

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Speaker 1: which is called These Days. It's about three years ago,

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Speaker 1: and Pee Wee wrote some great authentic horn arrangements for that,

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Speaker 1: and he did one horn arrangement on this new record,

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Speaker 1: on a track called Lighten Up Your Mood. But it's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful guy. Unfortunately he passed away in September at

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Speaker 1: the age of eighty. Um. But he was a real

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Speaker 1: he was a proper legend, and he was a authentic,

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Speaker 1: real deal and he lived it large. Just talking about

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Speaker 1: this album obviously class for low. You finished the record,

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Speaker 1: you eque it yourself and you go to an outside

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Speaker 1: mastering house. Well, for the first time ever. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'd never even mixed my own albums before because I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm not a technical guy either as a musician or

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Speaker 1: an engineer. I kind of know how to work pro

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Speaker 1: tools in my own cack handed way, but I never

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Speaker 1: trusted myself two mix. To me, it was a you know,

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Speaker 1: a oh that's real. That's a technical person. He's got

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Speaker 1: to be somebody who knows what they're doing. And in

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Speaker 1: the past I've gotten things to the mixed stage and

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Speaker 1: then handed it over to a proper, proper mixing engineer,

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Speaker 1: and they then bring the whole thing back to scratch

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Speaker 1: and build it back up again, and it never hangs

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Speaker 1: together in the way that I've heard it. So this

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Speaker 1: time again, this guy Peter van Hook said, I mean, no,

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Speaker 1: you have to mix this record, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, I can't me I don't know what I'm doing,

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Speaker 1: And but I did. I we went with my mixes

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Speaker 1: that I've worked with as we went along, and then

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Speaker 1: there's this other age called the mastering situation, which is

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Speaker 1: like I never understood. It's like, you get your mixes,

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Speaker 1: they sound great, and then they go to this other

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Speaker 1: stage mastering, and then they do another process, which is

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Speaker 1: they add EQ and compression and again it changes the thing.

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Speaker 1: So to be honest, we did hand it over to

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Speaker 1: a couple of mastering guys who had a shot at it,

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Speaker 1: and when it came back I didn't like it because

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Speaker 1: it didn't sound how I wanted it to sound. I

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Speaker 1: like the way it sounds. It's engaging, it doesn't hit

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Speaker 1: you in the face. But of course a lot of

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Speaker 1: these mastering guys now are trying to get it on

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Speaker 1: the radio and make it a kind of more aggressive

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Speaker 1: and hi fi in order to get the radio attention.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't like it. I liked it the way

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Speaker 1: it was, and that's what we went with. Okay, there's

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Speaker 1: one thing to balance all the instruments, another thing to delay, echo, reverb, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: You just figured that out all by yourself. In the

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Speaker 1: mixing stage. Well, it's not like you record it and

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Speaker 1: then you mix it it. It's you're mixing it as

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Speaker 1: you go along, and that's what happens. You get used

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Speaker 1: to that. I'm not an expert, as I say, but

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Speaker 1: I have he is, and I know the kind of

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Speaker 1: reverbs and echoes and things I like to hear. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they might not be the ultimate, but when they are working,

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Speaker 1: you have to go with them, because then that's when

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Speaker 1: you start changing that stuff. The whole balance changes. And

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Speaker 1: so yeah, we went with my my ideas. What kind

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Speaker 1: of equipment do you have in your studio? Well, I

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Speaker 1: have a pro tools rig, right, and what kind of board.

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Speaker 1: It's just a control surface, really, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: control twenty four. It's just a it's not a big

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Speaker 1: fancy knive or anything like that. I have some nice

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Speaker 1: pre amps, uh, some Nive pre amps and and the

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Speaker 1: like and the stuff is pretty much recorded organically, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just I just plug it in and when it

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Speaker 1: sounds okay, that's when that's what I go with. You

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Speaker 1: record in the same room that the equipment is in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: by and large, Yes. And what speakers do you listen to? Now?

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Speaker 1: What are these things called? They sound great PCMs? I

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Speaker 1: think they're called they're real nice speakers. But they're not flattering,

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Speaker 1: but they're not tiring. It just sound good. Okay. How

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Speaker 1: do you end up working with clapped? Well? I think

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Speaker 1: years ago, it must over ten years. I think I

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Speaker 1: played a few sort of charity type gigs where Gary,

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Speaker 1: you know from prop Gary it's very good at putting

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Speaker 1: these things together. He would put that together a house

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Speaker 1: band kind of thing too, and he would get in

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Speaker 1: some real stars like Eric Clapton, Roger Waters, people like that,

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Speaker 1: and for various charity events. And then I played on

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Speaker 1: a few of Eric's albums, things like Pilgrim Um Reptile

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Speaker 1: and a few other albums, just a few tracks. And

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Speaker 1: then one day, as I say, eight nine years ago,

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Speaker 1: he called me up and asked if I could come

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Speaker 1: on the road with him. And I was delighted to

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Speaker 1: say that. Yeah, dovetail beautifully into the what I had

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Speaker 1: going with my own band, and I guess I did

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Speaker 1: what was pretty much probably the last world tour inasmuch

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Speaker 1: as we did. We played in the States, we went

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Speaker 1: to Far East, we played it in Europe, Japan, and

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Speaker 1: it was just a marvelous experience. Well, he's on the

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Speaker 1: road now, needless to say, you're not in the band. No,

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Speaker 1: that's not true. We we I was in the Bend

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Speaker 1: the whole of September when we just did some shows.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: those goods. So they those dates were done. We we

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Speaker 1: did eight nine shows I think in the Southern States. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know you were in the band on those. Yeah. Okay.

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Speaker 1: One has to ask what do you think of his

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Speaker 1: viewpoints of vaccines for COVID. Well, I don't think I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be drawn into that too much because I don't

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Speaker 1: even know exactly where he stands on what he said

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Speaker 1: about it. But I know all I do know, and

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Speaker 1: I think I'm at liberty to say that, is that

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Speaker 1: he had the vaccine twice and he had a very

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Speaker 1: bad reaction, and he spoken about that personally. I've also

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Speaker 1: had the vaccine, and so I don't precisely no or

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Speaker 1: agree or uh about where he stands on where where

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Speaker 1: he stands at the moment, but I must admit I

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Speaker 1: have my skeptical thoughts about what it's all about. And

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Speaker 1: it's a little skeptical about mandating people who don't wish

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Speaker 1: to for whatever reason, have the vaccine. As I say, personally,

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Speaker 1: myself and my family we have had the vaccine, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think we've had a bad response to it.

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Speaker 1: But I think I think people are entitled to their

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Speaker 1: own opinion. Okay, so you go on on the road

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Speaker 1: with Eric. How much rehearsal is there if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: do nine dates? Well there was a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 1: But bear in mind most of the musicians, in fact,

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Speaker 1: all of the musicians involved played with Eric b Floor before,

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Speaker 1: and so when you rehearse with Eric, it's not so

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Speaker 1: much about you're not learning parts. You know, you're not

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Speaker 1: getting the parts tight and accurate and all that. It's

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Speaker 1: more about it it's more like getting to know everybody again.

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Speaker 1: And because you never play this stuff the same twice,

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Speaker 1: it's all on instinct and vibe, you know, so that

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Speaker 1: the I can't say that the rehearsals are that intense.

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Speaker 1: You know, we play some music, we chat, we chat,

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Speaker 1: we have a cup of tea, we play a bit more,

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Speaker 1: we have lunch, we play a bit more, and then

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Speaker 1: that's it. So and it comes together. Okay, you're on

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Speaker 1: the road to what degree are the settlers and the

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Speaker 1: parts setting stone into what degree does that change every

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Speaker 1: night and improvisation changing? Oh well, it's totally improvisation. I

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Speaker 1: mean we're not totally. I mean, there's a framework, there's

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Speaker 1: a set. It changes only a little predominantly. On this

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Speaker 1: last thing. The changes were in the acoustic section in

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Speaker 1: the middle, and he did some new things there, and

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Speaker 1: he also only used he used microphones on the acoustic thing,

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Speaker 1: like on the guitars and stuff like that. And he

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Speaker 1: didn't use pickups because I understand why, because the pickups,

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Speaker 1: even great as they're getting, they don't really sound like

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Speaker 1: an acoustic guitar sounds when it's played in the room.

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Speaker 1: And he was very much trying to get you know,

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Speaker 1: that real sound of the acoustic guitars. So we had

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Speaker 1: to play very very quietly in the acoustic section, and

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Speaker 1: that changed a little bit. But the set pretty much

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Speaker 1: stayed the same. Okay, So you have these endeavors, you're

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Speaker 1: making records, you're going on the road, going on the

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Speaker 1: road by yourself with Eric Clapton. Let's just say you

402
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Speaker 1: never worked another day in your life. Have you made

403
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Speaker 1: enough money in the music business to get to the

404
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Speaker 1: end where you gotta work for a living? M depends

405
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Speaker 1: what you mean. I think I probably I would probably

406
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Speaker 1: be okay. I'm trying to help my kids. I have

407
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Speaker 1: four grown up kids. They're all basically have regular salaried

408
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Speaker 1: kind of jobs, which I'm quite happy about, or not jobs,

409
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Speaker 1: but careers. And I have one son who's a chip

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Speaker 1: off the old block who plays in my band. Um,

411
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Speaker 1: and the cost of living and the cost of you know,

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Speaker 1: real estate has just gone crazy, and they have small

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Speaker 1: apartments and stuff. I'm trying to help them as much

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Speaker 1: as I possibly can while I'm still here. We have

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Speaker 1: a nice life. We're okay, We're I think we're what

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Speaker 1: they called the comfortable poor. We're do we're do okay okay.

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Speaker 1: And then so forgetting COVID. Before COVID, how many dates

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Speaker 1: a year were you on on the road? Uh, who's counting?

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Speaker 1: I mean, we would definitely with my own band. We

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Speaker 1: would play January February, March into April. We would play

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Speaker 1: three to four nights a week in theaters up and

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Speaker 1: down the UK, and then we would generally at that

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Speaker 1: point do some shows maybe in the Netherlands that's Holland, Germany,

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Speaker 1: and then I would uh if I you know, probably

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Speaker 1: play with Eric as I said, going to Japan or

426
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: US shows. I don't know. I'm not not counting, but

427
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: I'm busy. I've been very, very busy. It's crazy. Last

428
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: ten twenty years, when you know you should be winded down,

429
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: have been the busiest of my career. Now an email,

430
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: you say you're going to go work in Spain momentarily.

431
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: So I'm going on vacation. Oh yeah, I thought you

432
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: were playing gigs. No, we're doing I'm going away for

433
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks vacation with my wife to Spain.

434
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: We have a small apartment over there. Oh you know,

435
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: I don't need the address, but we're in Spain, his

436
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: son in the south on the costadel Soul. Okay, you

437
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: know that's big. You know Brits are really into that.

438
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. You're from Sheffield, what

439
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: was What was it like growing up in Sheffield. I

440
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: think it was pretty good. It was pretty good. It

441
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: was very by today standard. It was extremely austere, but

442
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: so is everywhere up in the north of England. You know,

443
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: I've come from a pretty poor, basic working class family.

444
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: My dad's family they were they went too bad. But

445
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: my my mom's family was very poor. Um my grand

446
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: and I never met either of my grandfather's They were

447
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: both deceased by the time I came along. But my

448
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: maternal grandfather was died around thirty six, left six kids.

449
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: He was from Ireland and he left six kids, so

450
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: they were very, very poor. Even when we grow grew

451
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: up as kids, we were We didn't think we were,

452
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: but we were poor. We didn't have a We had

453
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: a tin bath in the front of the fire once

454
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: a week. We had an outside toilet, but most people

455
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: did around where we lived, and but we had we

456
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: could go out and play. We could playing the open

457
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: air all day long. We're no worries, so I think

458
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: actually it was great. It was great way to live. Okay, well,

459
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: we know about Sheffield in America and we don't know much.

460
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: We know there was still there and Joe Cocker was

461
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: from there. Were you aware of Joke Parker? Oh yeah,

462
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: he was about two streets away from me, really, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

463
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: But he was a bit older. He was a bit older,

464
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: and he was he was a man. I was a

465
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: boy and he I was a little bit Oh this guy,

466
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: he's a bit little bit scary, this guy, you know.

467
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: But he was a legend in England, of course, in

468
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 1: Sheffield and he was playing. He could play any night

469
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: of the week in a pub or a club. And

470
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: I eventually got to see. I mean I was about

471
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: fifteen something like that and I snuck into a pub

472
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: and I saw Joe playing and it was amazing, absolutely amazing.

473
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: And Chris Stainton, who's plays in the in the Clapton band,

474
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: was playing with him back in those days as well.

475
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: So I've been having hitting Chris for all the old

476
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: Cocker stories. Fantastic. Any other musicians who came from Sheffield

477
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: but back then, no, not really. There was a guy

478
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: called Dave Berry. He had a little bit of success,

479
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: but Joe really, honestly was the first one to to

480
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: come through and we were all so delighted, and little

481
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: help from my friends. It was so exciting because it's

482
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: such a great record, and then when he finally sort

483
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: of broke through, it was just great. Well, everybody loved it.

484
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: So you're growing up. How many kids in the family,

485
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: and it was just me and my brother, older brother. Okay,

486
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: you go to school, you good student, bad student? I

487
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: was just I was a good boy. I did what

488
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: I was told when I wasn't very academic at all. Um.

489
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: You know, unfortunately, my father had a fatal accident. I

490
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: don't know if I if you knew that, but he

491
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: had a fatal accident when I was eleven, my brother

492
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: was fifteen, and that that was pretty uh profound experience.

493
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: But my brother grew up overnight. He he took charge

494
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: of the shop where we lift the store, and while

495
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: my mom tried to recover from this incredible blow. And

496
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: I just kind of as long as I was going

497
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: to school and not being any trouble, it was fine.

498
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: But I had no interest in school at all. I

499
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: didn't like it at all. I I like sports and

500
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: I like music. That was it. And were you an outsider?

501
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: We were a member of a a group, a lot of friends.

502
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: No friends, Oh no, I had a lot. I know,

503
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: I was I think I was a pretty popular kid.

504
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: I was, you know, as I said, it wasn't academic.

505
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: I was. Probably I was a bit of a clown,

506
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, if we had a soft teacher, I would

507
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: be a clown. And no, I think I was pretty popular.

508
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: I think so. I had plenty of friends here. Okay,

509
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: So you talk about the outdoor toilet, you talk about

510
00:33:54,880 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: the tin tub. At what point does that change? M Well,

511
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: it got worse actually because I left home the comforts. Okay,

512
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: when you left, when you left comforts, when you left

513
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: home there you were still using an outdoor toilet. No,

514
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: we had at that point, not long after my father died.

515
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: Maybe he had an insurance policy. I don't know what,

516
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: but we we actually moved from living behind the shop

517
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: to a little semi detached a couple of streets away.

518
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: Still kept the shop, but we had a little semi

519
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 1: detached house which had a bathroom, which was luxury. Okay,

520
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: So what was your introduction in music? Your parents playing

521
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: a lot of music. My father's side were musical, definitely.

522
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: My grandmother and my aunt both played the piano um,

523
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: and my father dabbled in the drums. I think so.

524
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: But even prior to his untimely death. But even most

525
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: so after we didn't have much contact with his side

526
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: of the family, but we had a lot of contact

527
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 1: with my mother's side of the family, who were very

528
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, lovely people. You know, it's tough and common,

529
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, poor but great. They were such great support

530
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: for us in in emotionally after my father's passing. It

531
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: was unbelievable. Yeah. So, you know, from the East Coast,

532
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: I mean from the United States viewpoint, we had the

533
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: Beach Boys, we had the Four Seasons, we had a

534
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: lot of crap, and then all of a sudden the

535
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: Beatles hip. But the Beatles hitting sixty four in America

536
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: being sixty four where they actually hitting sixty two in

537
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: the UK. So what point did you become into popular music? Well,

538
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: I was into it. I was into it already. I

539
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: liked all those bands, you know, I like the Ventures

540
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: and people like that. And as I say, my brother,

541
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: my older brother, he but then and there was an

542
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: instrumental band called the Shadows in the UK. They were

543
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: the backing band for a guy called Cliff Richard. But

544
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: I love the But when the Beatles came, that was it.

545
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: You know. In all the Liverpool bands and all that,

546
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: all that stuff. I saw the Beatles a couple of

547
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: times Sheffield City Hall. Everybody came through there, you know,

548
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: everybody came through town. And you saw him at the

549
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: city Hall. So the Stones, Roy Orbison, Dylan, chuck Berry,

550
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: you name it. So how what was it? Like? How

551
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: good were they? I don't know. I couldn't hear him,

552
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: but it was just electric, you know. And and to

553
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: see them, and I saw, you know, see ringo Lane.

554
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: I was playing drums by this time in a little

555
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: band at school and when I saw a ringoing, you know,

556
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: the high hacks going like this like, oh my god,

557
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: you know I've been tickling these drums. I need to

558
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: give him some stick, you know. So you know, I

559
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: only know the American experience where we all had transistor radios,

560
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: but we also had uh commercial radio. So did you

561
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: have transistor radios? And was it just the BBC or

562
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: radio Caroline pop radio? When? When? What was the listening experience?

563
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: Did you buy records? Did you have money to do that?

564
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: There us hardly anything on the radio back in those days.

565
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 1: There's so little I'm not like today where you can't

566
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: get away from it. But yeah, we had the little

567
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: transistor radio my brother under the bedclothes and we would

568
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: try and tune into Radio Caroline and it would come

569
00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:01,439
Speaker 1: and go Radio Luxembourg. And but um, we didn't even

570
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: have a proper record player. We had we had a

571
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: wind up record I'm not kidding, I am. I find

572
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: it hard to believe myself, but we did. But the

573
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: girl at the end of our yard where we lived, um,

574
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: she had one. And then when she got a new model,

575
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: she gave us her old electric record player and a

576
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: lot of records like um Everly Brothers and Ricky Nelson

577
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: and Dwayne Eddie and things like this. And it was like, wow,

578
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: this was great. Why did she give you her records?

579
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess they got maybe they got

580
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: tired of him, you know that back then, and it

581
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: was onto the next thing and the next thing, you know.

582
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: But yeah, we weren't asking. We weren't asking questions. How

583
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: did you playing drobs? Well, as I said, we had

584
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 1: an attic at this shop where we lived, and there

585
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: were a couple of bits up there. There was a

586
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: snare drum. There was a thing it was like almost

587
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 1: like a toy based drum, And I said about playing

588
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 1: this kit I would play along to two records. And

589
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: one year my father he one Christmas he got this thing.

590
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: It was like the old you know when the like

591
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: from the twenties, this kit with like the wooden blocks,

592
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: the skulls about five skulls and and I used to

593
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: mess around on that, and I was in. I was

594
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: into it. But the year my when my my father

595
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: passed away, and the Christmas after that, my mother bought

596
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: with what the thing called hy purchase where you pay

597
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, installments very much. They actually bought me a

598
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: proper kit of drums. I mean it was way too

599
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: good for what was but I mean it was just

600
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: spectacular kit of drums and tell tricks and tell star

601
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: remember it well. And so that's when I really started

602
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: getting into it. And then tell me about forming bands.

603
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: We had a little band at school played the school

604
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: concert when I was twelve thirteen. It was fantastic. We

605
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: did four Beatles songs and the girls through jelly Babies

606
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: and asked and asked for my autograph, you know, the

607
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: same girls in in the in the class, you know.

608
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: So that was fantastic. And I think just before I

609
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: left school at fifteen or sixteen, I started to play

610
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: in the local soul band. I sold those drums that

611
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: my mother works so hard to buy and put down

612
00:40:54,520 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: payments on an organ and started playing in this solan.

613
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: How did you get involved in the Oregon? Yeah, good question,

614
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: because they needed one, They needed an organist. And I

615
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: had had a go on a on a Hammond organ

616
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: that was in a recording studio that my friend had

617
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: a session there and great, and he sold me a

618
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: couple of chords, and as I say, then I wanted

619
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: to join this, this band, and I just started to

620
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: teach myself, learned some cords and stood at the back

621
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: and played quietly. Then what kind of Oregon did you buy? Well?

622
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to buy the Vox Continental, which you probably

623
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: remember with the of course the back to front black

624
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: and white keys. But I couldn't stretch to that, so

625
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: I bought this other thing. It was awful. Actually, it

626
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: was made by Selma Selma Capri, and it was it

627
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 1: was rubbish. But many years later again I got my

628
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: mom to sign papers again and we bought the low,

629
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: the low version of a Hammond organ. And then you

630
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: were always buying the equipment. It's hard to slap you know.

631
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: You got the drums you got them and to work again.

632
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean, get into the gig is a big deal. Yeah,

633
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: that's that's a good point, one of my favorite things

634
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: about But when I did the tour with the Ringo

635
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: Star All Star Band, and he would he told a

636
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 1: story about getting to the gigs. He said, it was

637
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 1: always easy to get to the gig on the bus,

638
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: you know, everybody give your hand, but getting home you'd

639
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: have to do it yourself, and you have to walk

640
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: down the street five yards with two cases, then go

641
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: back for the other two and walk down. Fortunately I

642
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: had my uncle, and you know I mentioned my mother's

643
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: family and how supportive they was. My my uncle used

644
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: to used to take me in his car. That's right,

645
00:42:52,680 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: I remember now my uncle Percy. Bless him. So he

646
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: finished with school. So how does your musical career unfold? Well,

647
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: as I said, I was already playing in kind of

648
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: semipro bands and I left school with no qualifications and

649
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: I just wanted to gig with Abandon. That's what we did.

650
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: I think. The next step was when I was about seventeen,

651
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: we did the thing where you go to Germany and

652
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: play the clubs over there. Of course, that was the

653
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: way that the Beatles have done it years a few

654
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: years before. So we went over there. I played for

655
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: a month at the Top ten club in Hamburg, for example,

656
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, and it was great. We loved it.

657
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: I mean, we're we were we were very thin back

658
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: in those days, but we were just having a great time.

659
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: So you come back from Germany and um, well I

660
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 1: remember now on this because we were playing covers. Yeah,

661
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: we we We were playing with the two bands would alternate.

662
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: You play forty fifty minutes, the turnaround, the other band

663
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: would play fifty minutes, and that went on through the night.

664
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: And we met up with these other guys who were

665
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: doing you know, on with us, and we we started

666
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: to get into music and we were listening to music

667
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: and smoking pot and listening to the stuff that was

668
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: happening in the sixties, and wow, this is happening. And

669
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: we decided we were going to go progressive. So we

670
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 1: we formed this band. I'm trying to keep it a secret,

671
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: but it seems to be coming out of it's pretty dreadful.

672
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: Um we were. Our big heroes was Frank Zappa and

673
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: the Mothers of Invention exact. Yeah, good heroes, but hard,

674
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: hard act to follow. So yeah, we went through that

675
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: sort of phase and you know, live in hand to mouth,

676
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: but you know, and then it was playing in Germany

677
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: and the college circuit and everybody wanted free music. And

678
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: that was that when you had the kids storm in

679
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: the place, they wouldn't pay to come in and stuff,

680
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: and it all got a bit political and serious and crazy,

681
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: and then everybody went, hang on a minute, now, this

682
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. And that's when we started to go back

683
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: to rock and roll, playing in pubs around London and

684
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: this is called pub rock. Very original idea. But and

685
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: that's when we formed ACE, playing around the pubs in London.

686
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: And so what point do you become a songwriter about? Then?

687
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: Prior to that, with this um sort of mothers of

688
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: invention type band, we used to write these long pieces

689
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: and that went on for twenty minutes or whatever, and

690
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: then and then would go free form. But then we started.

691
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: I start when with ACE, I started to write songs

692
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 1: and one of the first songs I wrote was how long? Okay,

693
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: how could you write such a good song right at

694
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 1: the beginning of your career? I don't know it. I

695
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 1: often think it's great that people say it's a great song.

696
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: It's a very simple song. Don't tell anybody, but I

697
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: mean it's nothing much too. It's got a big old

698
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: hook and a verse that repeats itself. Um. But I

699
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: think back then I was naive enough to think, you know,

700
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: that I was inventing this stuff. I'd learn a new

701
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 1: chord and it'll be like, oh, I'd like the sound

702
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: of that and make a song from it. So I

703
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: didn't have any trouble writing songs. Then, Okay, who owns

704
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: that song today? God knows. It's changed hands a number

705
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: of times. I think it's partly owned by Universal in

706
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: America and in some of territories it's owned now by BMG,

707
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: a couple of people who've had it along the way

708
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: of rich iired and living in living in on a

709
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: desert island. But no, it was a pretty crappy deal.

710
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: Then do you still get songwriter royalties? We get some,

711
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: I get some, yeah, but nothing like I've tried to

712
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: shame them. I've tried to shame them into, you know,

713
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: making it more civilized kind of deal, but they won't

714
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: have it. And how about public performance? You know here

715
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: it's called Aska b M. I yeah, yeah, thank goodness,

716
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: that that was the only money I saw for a while,

717
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: to be honest, from them, from that song. But I

718
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: do it does trickle through. It's still been good, don't

719
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: get me wrong. I mean if I get a half

720
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: or a quarter of what I should have a song

721
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: like that that hangs around for all those years, it's

722
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: it's pretty incredible really. So it goes on for a

723
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: couple of years with Ace. How did that end? Uh?

724
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 1: Not very dramatically. It fizzled out, really, is the truth.

725
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: We had that one big hit and it was the

726
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: only song like that on the record. To be honest, um,

727
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: the two of the other main writers, because I was

728
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: the last one to join and to come in and

729
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: write stuff that it was formed by two other writists,

730
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: Phil Harris and Bam King, and their stuff was a

731
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: little more guitar blues country kind of stuff, and there

732
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: was nothing else that really caught the eye. Caught a

733
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 1: year and we made another album that didn't really happen.

734
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: So it kind of fizzled out, is what happened. How

735
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: do you get hooked up with Jake Rivieria? Well I

736
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: knew Jake back in those days, but he was a

737
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 1: roadie for a band called Chili Willie and the Red

738
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: Hot Peppers, not obviously not to be confused used with

739
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: a band of a similar name. But so, while I

740
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: was in in Ace and we lived for about a

741
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: year in the mid seventies nineties six, while I was

742
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: living over there doing the Being all Californian and everything,

743
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 1: how does the Being relocate to the United States? It

744
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: was our manager's idea. He thought that we, you know,

745
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: we'd had this huge radio hit in in the States

746
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: and that we should try and make a go of

747
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: it in the States, which is what we did. So

748
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: what was it like, boy from Sheffield is living in

749
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: sunny southern California. Well, it was a bit unreal really

750
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: because it was beautiful, it was fantastic, but we didn't

751
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 1: get any work done. You know, we were messing around

752
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: and going to the beach and playing soccer and all

753
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: the rest of it, but and not writing any good songs.

754
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: So but meanwhile in the UK things had gone changed

755
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: completely and Jake, Jake Riveria had helped to found Stiff Records,

756
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 1: which was, you know, at the forefront of all the

757
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: punk and new wave stuff. They found Elvis Costello and

758
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,919
Speaker 1: in fact, our good friend when we were living in California.

759
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: Down the road was our friend Pete Thomas, who had

760
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: played in this band Chili Willie and the Red Hot Peppers,

761
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: and he was living over in the States and playing

762
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: with some people like John Stewart and the Country People,

763
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: and he got the call from Jake to go and

764
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: play with this guy, Elvis Costello. So Pete went back

765
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: to UK and six months or sold later we went

766
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: back and it was like, oh my goodness, it's all changed,

767
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's all it's over. You know, we've got

768
00:50:55,600 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: beards and long hair and everything. They hate us so

769
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: but anyway, so I just started to work around London

770
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 1: doing sessions. I worked with with Roxy Music, helped made

771
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: a couple of records with them and toured with them.

772
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: And then Jake had taken on Squeeze. He started to

773
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: manage Squeeze and the keyboard player Jules Holland had left

774
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: the band. They auditioned tons of people and Jake said, well,

775
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: why don't he try Paul Carrot. He's back in town.

776
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: He's been playing with Roxy Music. He shaved his beard off.

777
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: You're getting me and I went down an audition with

778
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: them about a week before the recording of east Side

779
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: Story album and and the next thing I know, I

780
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: was in the studio with him. Okay, how did you

781
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,839
Speaker 1: end up playing You're a guy with one hit from

782
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: a failed band, how do you end up working with

783
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: Roxy Music? Well, um, I don't know how interesting this is,

784
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: but now it's interesting to Okay, Well this is what happened.

785
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: Is that, Yes, I said, I went back to UK.

786
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 1: I thought I figured it was kind of over, but

787
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: I started to play a few sessions. I just wanted

788
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: to all the what I thought were the best players

789
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: in London that that's what they did. And I used

790
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 1: to hang out with this group of players who I

791
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: really admired, and they had played on the Brian Ferry

792
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 1: solo records. And when Roxy reformed to make an album

793
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 1: called Manifesto and then Flesh and Blood, they got Brian

794
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: insisted on having these guys play on the records and

795
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: they said, well we got this other guy now and

796
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: he plays keyboards, let's bring him along. And that was me. Okay,

797
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: so good experience, bad experience. Oh yeah, good experience, Yeah,

798
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: good experience. I mean it wasn't what I'm a bit

799
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 1: of a soul guy, you know, I wasn't at all

800
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: glam rock, you know, as the exact opposite, boring denim

801
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: plaid bloke. Um. But to go out on the road

802
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: with rock Shore. You know this was fun. You know

803
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: it's great. I enjoyed it. Yeah, there's a song on

804
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: Flesh and Blood. Oh yeah, I might well be playing

805
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 1: on it. How's it go? I just handed my mind

806
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: the song playing on there. I'm playing on that. I'm

807
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 1: playing on that. Yet there's this song playing on the radio.

808
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm playing the strings in there. Okay, But you know

809
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: what made that record was the bass player, because that

810
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,479
Speaker 1: song was not happening. It was like a do walk song.

811
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: And then we went down the pub, came back Alan Spinner,

812
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: great bass player, and he starts playing that Basseline doo

813
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: doo doo doo doo doo make actually made it? Yeah? Anyway,

814
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: going you're playing sessions. I know in Los Angeles, you know,

815
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: people call their friends in, but usually if they don't

816
00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 1: read music, they're squeezed out. Did you re music? And

817
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: how extensive was your session career and how did that work?

818
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 1: Not reading music? No, I didn't read music. I don't.

819
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: I don't think many of them in London did actually,

820
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: But no, I was always pretty scared that I'd get

821
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 1: found out. You know that. You know that I couldn't

822
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: really play that well, but you know, my musical instincts

823
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,439
Speaker 1: got me through. My ear and the musical instincts got

824
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: me through, and I just saw it all as a

825
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: learning experience. But I was always terrified for the first

826
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: half an hour or an hour that I get found out.

827
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 1: You know, it's very insecure about that. So how did

828
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: it end with Roxy? I think it was just that

829
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: I did a couple of tours of them and made

830
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: a couple of albums, and then the opportunity to do

831
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: the Squeeze the thing came up, and I just remember

832
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: calling up Roxy and they said they kind of done

833
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: what they were going to do, and they said, no,

834
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: go for it. And that's when I kind of got

835
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 1: involved with Squeeze. I didn't realize I was joining Squeeze.

836
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: I thought I was just playing some sessions. But anyway,

837
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: when did you realize you joined? I think when I

838
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: was on the plane going over to the States to

839
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: to do the first tour with them, UM, which was

840
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: a duel billing of Squeeze and Elvis Costello and the Attractions,

841
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: two bands on the same bush sixteen people. I think

842
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: they were on that bus. There were two bands. There

843
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 1: was a security guy because Elvis had caused some controversy

844
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: to a manager. Sixteen people. Can you imagine? So how

845
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 1: did you end up singing Tempted? Okay? Well, as I said,

846
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: I was there to play keys, really, and we had

847
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 1: recorded pretty much the album. They had already recorded a

848
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: version of this song Tempted, which is completely different different

849
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: how it was just I've always think I only heard

850
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: it once or twice. It was produced by Dave Edmonds,

851
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: and it was more sort of almost like super Tramp

852
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: or something and a bad fruit of na um. And

853
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: then this one day we started messing around in the studio.

854
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: I'm playing Hammond organ and they're doing it in that

855
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:43,280
Speaker 1: kind of soul vibe, and Elvis Costello was producing the record.

856
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: He came running in and said like, let's put this down.

857
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: Let's put this down and put the track down. Or

858
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 1: everybody's like, ah, this is great, this is great. He said, yeah,

859
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: but you know, Paul, you should sing it. So I

860
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: went in, why you You must have had a reason.

861
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: Perhaps he was just being nice. I don't know. I mean,

862
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: I was kind of thought of as a little bit

863
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: of you know, the blue eyed soul singer even you know,

864
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: and it was his his idea. And how did he

865
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: end up playing his response line there? I think he

866
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: was just very keen to get in on it because

867
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: it was a great song. And yeah, I don't blame him,

868
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: it's a great song. So at what point do you

869
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: realize you have this great unique voice? Well, I'm I

870
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: always fancied myself as a singer. You know, I'd sung

871
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: how long, and I'd sung all a lot of songs.

872
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about before that or before that. Well,

873
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 1: as a kid, people remarked and they said, always got

874
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: a lovely voice, you know, at school and things like

875
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: that when I was little, little, you know. And but

876
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: other than that, um, I didn't really do anything else.

877
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: Even when I was in bands in the beginning, I

878
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: was only doing big backgrounds because usually there was a

879
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: one guy, a designated bloke at the front. And so

880
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: it wasn't until we we formed Ace and I started

881
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: singing lead. That's when I got the hang of it.

882
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: I started to get the hang of it. Well, from

883
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: an outside perspective, your voice has not changed as good

884
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: as it ever was. I mean he's just you know,

885
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: freak of DNA or there are certain things you do

886
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: to make sure you protect your vocal chords or what's

887
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: going on there. Yeah, I think it has changed a

888
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: little bit. I think, I like to think in in

889
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,479
Speaker 1: a lot of in a lot of ways, it's got better,

890
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: it's stronger, it's got a bit more tumbra to it.

891
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: And I just try to stay healthy. I don't do

892
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: anything stupid like smoke or during hard liquor. Um, did

893
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: you used to smoke and drink hard liquor? I've done. Yeah,

894
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: obviously it's expected of you, you know, but I like

895
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: a glass of wine. But no, as I say, try

896
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: and stay healthy. I see all this stuff now and

897
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: YouTube and stuff like that. You can, you know, improve

898
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: your um, your voice and things like that. But blessed

899
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: with decent chords, you know, and and and the musicality.

900
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: And I've developed it and used it, you know, keep

901
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: using it. That's the thing. Okay, Then you make a

902
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: solo album good Experience not so good Experience? Which one

903
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: was that? Well, let's go back one chapter. How do

904
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: you end up leaving Squeeze? Well, I was there for

905
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: about a year and I loved it. I was happy

906
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: playing keys, to be honest, because they didn't need a singer.

907
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: They already had two singers. They didn't need a songwriter,

908
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 1: particularly someone like me that wrote three or four chord

909
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: lovey dovey stuff. They had a thing now, had an identity.

910
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: It was the songs. It was the sound of Glenn

911
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: and Chris singing, and they didn't really need it. So

912
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: I was having a good time. But it was obvious that,

913
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, if I was to develop as a singer

914
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: and a songwriter, I couldn't really do it within the

915
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: framework of that band, you know. And I wasn't going

916
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: to try and impose my style on on them. They

917
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 1: didn't need it. So that's kind of why I left. Well,

918
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: you're walking from a good gig into the wilderness. It

919
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: was a good gig and it was fun. Yeah it

920
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: was great. But yeah, I made a lot of strange

921
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: decision and in my career, you know, they're not not

922
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: always been career moves, but it I'm not in a

923
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 1: bad place now. I love where I am now, you know.

924
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,439
Speaker 1: So if you have to do it all over again,

925
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: what would you have done differently? Mm hmmm. Probably had

926
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: a bit more faith in my own self and my

927
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 1: own ability. But that's easier said than done. You know,

928
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: it's tough to to make your way in in in

929
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: in in this music. It is tough. So and I've

930
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: also had to have a family, you know, to bear

931
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: in mind, and I wasn't prepared for them to suffer

932
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: for my art, you know, so I I probably wouldn't

933
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 1: change anything. I'll tell you why, because you know, people

934
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,439
Speaker 1: will say, oh, you could have done this, you could

935
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: have done more. I could have done a whole lot less.

936
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: I have had a great, very career, made some great people.

937
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: I never expected to do this and get this far.

938
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 1: And my career is actually not in a bad place

939
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: at the moment. I haven't a lot of people like

940
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: what I do. I have a great band who you know,

941
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: support me, and I have a great family. I really

942
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: don't think I should ask for more. At what point

943
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: do you meet your wife in this journey? Well, a

944
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: long time ago pre Ace pre Ace nineteen seventy two,

945
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: I think, and I just I just met her. We've

946
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 1: we've been together since that day Clider met her and

947
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: she came her friend had designs on one of the

948
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: other guys in the band, and she came along to

949
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 1: a support and I met her. I'm I'm afraid it

950
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: was like that, and at what point to get married?

951
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 1: Where we were together for seven years and then we

952
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: got married and not long before our first son was

953
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 1: born and we have had four great kids and we

954
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 1: now have two and a half grandchildren one on the way.

955
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, and she's been She is great. She's a

956
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: great person. She's honest. Being on the road good or

957
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: bad for the relationship, Well, it doesn't make life easy.

958
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 1: I mean, goodness knows how she got on with four

959
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: young kids, um while I was away, But you know, yes, so,

960
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: and she never gave me any grief about that. You know,

961
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 1: it was accepted. This was the only way I knew

962
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 1: to make a living and this is the way he's

963
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:05,480
Speaker 1: going to have to be. And it's it's great now

964
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: that I've you know, had a little bit of success

965
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: here along the way and I can help them. But

966
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: it was tough, you know, being away for and that

967
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: was a sacrifice sometimes, you know, to be away with

968
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: a band that you're not fully part of, and yet

969
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 1: you I'm a team player. I am a team player,

970
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: and I would always do my best whatever the situation,

971
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: and feel obliged sometimes, but you know, my wife, God

972
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: bless her, gosh, I don't actually did it. So prior

973
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: to meeting your wife or maybe after, to what degree

974
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: were you enamored of the sex, drugs, and rock and

975
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:53,680
Speaker 1: roll lifestyle. Well, I think I took my share. I

976
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: don't like to talk about it. I don't like to

977
01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: talk about it with my kids, um because three of them,

978
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: for sure never really never to my knowledge, we're interested

979
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: in that one who's the chip of the old block.

980
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure dabbled in various things. I'm hoping they're

981
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: not going to hear this, but I think that you're okay.

982
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: But no, I mean, you know I was expected of

983
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: you and and and no, I'm guilty has charged, but

984
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: not for a long time, not what not. As soon

985
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: as the family started coming along, it was obvious that

986
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: they didn't mix and I didn't. I didn't have a

987
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: rock and roll family. I didn't have rock and roll kids.

988
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 1: You know. I wanted a stable I didn't want any

989
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: of that in their life. So when we were talking

990
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 1: about the Doover thing, you were saying, if you had

991
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: more confidence in yourself and your talents, I mean, the

992
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 1: fear is just totally exterior. They don't really see what

993
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: goes on in the mind. Are you telling us that

994
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: you really didn't have enough confidence both to go out

995
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 1: on a business level and artistic level? You just saw

996
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: yourself as a band member. Yeah, I think I was

997
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:23,959
Speaker 1: happy being in a banned environment, playing with people having

998
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 1: fun out. Just thought maybe it wasn't for me, you know,

999
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: to to have that. I didn't want it. I know.

1000
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: I know the people that want that, you know, they

1001
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: have to they have to want it. And I was

1002
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 1: never that pushy, you know. I'm, as I say, more

1003
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: of a team player. But I love singing, and so

1004
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 1: I've had to some extent make myself do that, you know,

1005
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: have a bit more confidence, and and I have, I have,

1006
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: I have now, But um, I just don't think you can.

1007
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: You can. You can't really say would I do it

1008
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 1: all again? Because you know, you've got to have the

1009
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 1: guts to do it, And maybe I didn't have the guts,

1010
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: you know or whatever. I don't know. We're where where

1011
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: we are now. What would the guts have looked like?

1012
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means to be honest. Well,

1013
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: I mean you made it from Sheffield with the outdoor, toilet,

1014
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: to to you know, to the hit parade? What what?

1015
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: What kind of characteristic would it have taken? They let me.

1016
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: But is it such that this is your personality or

1017
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: the boy from Sheffield? He can't take the boy out

1018
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 1: of Sheffield? Or can people change or not change? It

1019
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: could be I mean Sheffield people generally speaking, they are

1020
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: kind of self effacing. They do get their self deprivation.

1021
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: What's the word um in? They don't like people that

1022
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 1: get to big for their boots. As I say, I'm

1023
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 1: a team player. I could make all the excuses in

1024
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: the world, but it boils down to the fact that

1025
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: you know, you've got to want want it, and you've

1026
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 1: got to be self orientated. I was. As I say,

1027
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: I'm not complaining. I think things are gone pretty good.

1028
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 1: So ultimately, you have a solo record, you have a

1029
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 1: hit in the United States, So do you think you're

1030
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: on your way? Then? What's going through your mind? Are

1031
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,600
Speaker 1: we talking about don't shed a tear? Yeah no, no,

1032
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: we're talking about I need you, I need you before

1033
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: I need you? Yeah, I need you was just kind

1034
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 1: of top thirty. Yeah, that was stripped step in the

1035
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: right direction. Yeah, I thought things were moving. Well, there,

1036
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: I was in working a lot with Nick Lowe um

1037
01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: back in those days, and yeah, I was and a

1038
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 1: bit more confident and cocky then. Um, I'm trying to

1039
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: think chronologically how things happened. I know that after Mike

1040
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: and the Mechanics, I got a solo contract and I

1041
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 1: had my first top ten hit, which is the song

1042
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: Don't Shed a Tear, and that was pretty exciting. Sadly,

1043
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,719
Speaker 1: my wife got ill at this at this time, and

1044
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 1: we I was on tour in the States and I

1045
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: had to go home and we had to um, you know,

1046
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: take care of her for for for a little while.

1047
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 1: So we lost a little bit of momentum there. But

1048
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: as I say, I'm where I am now, I think

1049
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: is a pretty good place. So how do you end

1050
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 1: up working with Mike and the Mechanics? Um? Do you

1051
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: want the long story? Give us a lot? Sorry, okay, Um, well,

1052
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think now. Okay, So I had a

1053
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: band with Nick low for several years, which, okay, let's

1054
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: start there. How do you end up thou falling in

1055
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,560
Speaker 1: with Nickolo? You must have known him from the stiff years,

1056
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 1: but how do you reconnect? No, I knew him before

1057
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: then I knew him before the stiff years. How did

1058
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 1: you know? How did you know him? Well? Because we

1059
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 1: were on this pub rock circuit. I was in Ace.

1060
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,720
Speaker 1: He had a band called Brinsley Sports, and they were

1061
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 1: probably the best band on that circuit, but we were

1062
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: the ones that had the lucky hit anyway, so we

1063
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: I didn't then see much of Nick for many years

1064
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: until he became this record new wave record producer, producing

1065
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: The Damned and Elvis Costello and these people, and and

1066
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: then we all ended up under the same roof, under

1067
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: the Jake Rivereia stable because Nick was always with Jake

1068
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: and he'd taken on Squeeze and Nick produced my first album,

1069
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 1: which is called Suburban Voodoo, which is a very fueled

1070
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: kind of record. Um, what does that mean? We were

1071
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 1: loaded basically, you know. It sounds like it though, but

1072
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: I bought it. I was happy, did you well? It

1073
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: was very exciting. Where did this start? Now? Mechanics? Okay,

1074
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: So one of the reasons I had left Squeeze actually

1075
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: was because I loved Nick and I wanted to work

1076
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: with him. Um. He but unfortunately at the time he

1077
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: wasn't having a great time. He was having a divorce

1078
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:49,639
Speaker 1: and all this stuff was going on, so he wasn't

1079
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 1: a lot of fun a lot of the time. But

1080
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: we had this band, and if if I had a

1081
01:11:56,479 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: record out, we went out as Paul Carrott, and if

1082
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 1: Nick had a record out, it was Nick Lowe and

1083
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 1: the Cowboy Outfit or Noise to Go or what have you.

1084
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 1: And so that was great. We had it. We we

1085
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 1: were playing up and down the states, either playing in

1086
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: little dives or opening up for people like Tom Petty

1087
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: on these long tours, opening up in the arenas and

1088
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 1: what have you. Had a lot of fun. But then

1089
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 1: it started to get a bit old, and we we've

1090
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 1: all decided really that it's it's it's run its course.

1091
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: And coincidentally, I get a call from a guy called b. A. Robertson,

1092
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: who is um calls me up about the blue I

1093
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 1: don't know him from Adam and he he's written this

1094
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 1: song that he wants to pitch to a movie and

1095
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: he says, Um, we should get that guy who sang

1096
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: that song. How long? So he called me up and said,

1097
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,479
Speaker 1: you're that guy that's saying that. Would you come and

1098
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: sing this demo for me? Because I'm pitching this. I said, okay, yeah,

1099
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 1: because you never know. So I just went and did it.

1100
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: I didn't get paid or anything like that. Sang this

1101
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 1: song for him and he said, oh, by the way,

1102
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 1: I'm writing songs with Mike Rutherford from Genesis. He's making

1103
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,759
Speaker 1: a solo record and would you think you'd be interested

1104
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 1: in coming down and singing a couple of songs on that?

1105
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 1: And I said, sure, yeah, why not? And so I

1106
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 1: went down. I met Mike, went down to the Genesis

1107
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: studio there and they said, just going. You've got this

1108
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: little song. Here's just three chords, just going there, blues

1109
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 1: away and it was this song Silent Running or can

1110
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,439
Speaker 1: you hear Me? So they only had the can you

1111
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 1: hear Me a bit at this point and then and

1112
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm just riffing away and they said, oh, that sounds great,

1113
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 1: and b A went away and wrote this weird lyric

1114
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 1: and I sang a couple of songs, a couple of

1115
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 1: three songs on that first album, and then thought no

1116
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 1: more about it. And then the record came out and

1117
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 1: it was well received, and Mike was in a position

1118
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 1: to assemble this kind of studio band into a touring band,

1119
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: and we became Mike and the Mechanics. Okay, then there's

1120
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 1: the second album with Living Years. Yes, so how is

1121
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:16,679
Speaker 1: that album, ma, because you're a member of the group

1122
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:20,640
Speaker 1: now the Mechanics and one of the Mechanics. Yeah, and

1123
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,639
Speaker 1: not Mike though, as my news agent used to think.

1124
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, well I was. I was really happy to

1125
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: get to sing that song. Um. Obviously I kind of

1126
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 1: felt it was a bit of a tribute to my dad,

1127
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 1: but it was. The song really was about BEA's relationship

1128
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: with his father and all the rest of it. But

1129
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: so that's a kind of a feather in the cap.

1130
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 1: We were nominated for Grammy Awards and all sorts. We

1131
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 1: didn't get it, but nevertheless we had some good success

1132
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 1: m for for a few albums, and it was good fun.

1133
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 1: But it was it was Mike's project, you know. So

1134
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:05,719
Speaker 1: how does it feel when you're not writing the songs? Well,

1135
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 1: originally I didn't mind because it was it was different

1136
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: to anything I would have been involved with. You know,

1137
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 1: it still had that sort of genesis kind of connection.

1138
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:19,679
Speaker 1: I was felt I was more of a root Sie

1139
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,479
Speaker 1: kind of guy, but it was something different. But I

1140
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:27,479
Speaker 1: was happy to be involved. And but then I started

1141
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:30,120
Speaker 1: to think, well, you know, it's the songwriters back in

1142
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 1: those days that were making any of the money. So

1143
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:38,680
Speaker 1: and I also felt that I could contribute to the songwriting,

1144
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: and fortunately Mike had already had this thought and started

1145
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 1: to include me more in the songwriting. And how did

1146
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 1: you write Over my Shoulder? Very quickly? Pretty quickly anyway,

1147
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:57,400
Speaker 1: I mean I went down to Mike's house and he said, okay, well,

1148
01:15:57,400 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 1: I've got this little idea, and he started strumming the

1149
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 1: open chords as you're probably familiar with, and I started,

1150
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 1: and we put the cassette player on and I started

1151
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 1: to riff away. And after twenty minutes of riffing on

1152
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 1: this on these chords, the tape ran out. And I

1153
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 1: had been thinking, I don't think he's digging this because

1154
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 1: it's it's too pop for him. You know, he's not

1155
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: gonna like this anyway, and then he said, actually, you

1156
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: did something at the very beginning of the thing. And

1157
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: we were around the tape right to the top and

1158
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: there I'm singing for whatever and it reason looking back

1159
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 1: over my Shoulder Lady ballad, and he he loved it.

1160
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 1: So I was great. It was a whole shape was

1161
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: there from the get go. And then I took it

1162
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 1: away and wrote some lyrics to it and that was it.

1163
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 1: But that was a big song in Europe and the UK.

1164
01:16:57,439 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 1: But I don't think it ever took off in the

1165
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 1: of that album though. And I certainly know that song.

1166
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 1: That was my favorite song on the record. Uh, but

1167
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 1: how do you normally write a song? I don't know, Bob.

1168
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 1: I was hoping you weren't gonna ask me that one.

1169
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: You know, some people sit down there with a pad

1170
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: of paper and they write and they scratch. Other people

1171
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: are taking a shower. They get an idea. Some people

1172
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 1: all comes all together, some people working for a year.

1173
01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: Usually it's it's a musical idea that would just come

1174
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 1: from jamming away and a phrase. You take that phrase

1175
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 1: and doing and then and you add to it. I

1176
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: very rarely have a plan. I very rarely have an

1177
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: idea of a concept or even a title. Um that

1178
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: all seems to come later. If if I'm lucky, something

1179
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 1: comes off the top of my head that sings good

1180
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 1: and that I can do velop and make into something.

1181
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 1: Once I get a start on it, I now have

1182
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 1: the confidence that I can make reasonably decent lyric. It's

1183
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 1: not going to be that original I'm not intellectual, as

1184
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 1: you probably guess by now, I should think. But and

1185
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:26,679
Speaker 1: I'm not a reader. I'm not. I don't read books

1186
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 1: so much. I read news and articles and stuff like that.

1187
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 1: But I like to think I can make something it

1188
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 1: it's probably borderline cliche, but I can make it sound

1189
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 1: not too cliche, and it can sound good. It will

1190
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: sing good, because that's important as well. So the kids

1191
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:51,679
Speaker 1: are out of the house, you can't play music seven,

1192
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 1: you're not reading books? What do you what takes your

1193
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 1: time up all day? What do you do? I don't

1194
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 1: have any problem filling in my time. I've got this

1195
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 1: little studio at home, and if I'm not on the road,

1196
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 1: I'm in here messing about um. Yeah, I think that's

1197
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 1: where most of my time goes. I still like soccer,

1198
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 1: but my team is really awful and terrible. But what's

1199
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:24,559
Speaker 1: your team? My team Sheffield Wednesday. We're now in the

1200
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:28,679
Speaker 1: third division. They've been in the Premier League and back

1201
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:30,800
Speaker 1: in how long ago were they in the Premier League?

1202
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 1: About twenty years guys? Sorry, when I was growing up,

1203
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 1: they were real good. Who owns it now? Oh, it's

1204
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: owned by a Taiwanese Is there any is there any hope. No,

1205
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 1: there's hope that we will survive, which was looking a

1206
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 1: bit scary at the beginning of this year because this

1207
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:54,720
Speaker 1: guy spent a whole lot of money, which are not

1208
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:57,680
Speaker 1: allowed to do in the lower divisions, and we were

1209
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 1: in all kinds of trouble and we're getting points deducted

1210
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:06,760
Speaker 1: for the financial stuff, and he'd blown a load of

1211
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 1: money on the wrong players and he didn't know what

1212
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:14,720
Speaker 1: he was doing, but he insisted he did. So I

1213
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 1: thought we were going out of business completely. But there's

1214
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: hope they will survive. But to be back in the

1215
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:25,040
Speaker 1: Premier League, it's a different planet now. The money up

1216
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 1: there is just crazy. And then you work with Elton

1217
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 1: John as a keyboard player himself. How do you end

1218
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 1: up working with Elton John. Yeah, he's a great piano player,

1219
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 1: but he doesn't play organ, and organ is different thing.

1220
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:42,880
Speaker 1: It's just different. I mean, he probably could if he

1221
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 1: could be bothered to figure it out. But actually I'm

1222
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: a better organ player than piano player. It's just because

1223
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 1: you can get away with murder on the on the

1224
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 1: organ if you know how to coax the sound out

1225
01:20:56,760 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 1: of it. And I seemed to have a reputation for

1226
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 1: playing the Hammond organ. So he actually he here's a

1227
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:10,600
Speaker 1: story for you. Are you're not getting fed up with

1228
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:16,879
Speaker 1: these stories for the best parts. So Elton was friendly

1229
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,720
Speaker 1: with Chris, different from Squeeze. I think it was to

1230
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 1: do with the the program, you know, And I think

1231
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 1: Elton was at one time sponsoring Chris. And one night

1232
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:35,759
Speaker 1: Elton turned up at a Squeeze show in a concert

1233
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:39,439
Speaker 1: in the in the UK and got up and sang

1234
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:44,600
Speaker 1: a couple of songs and the place just went crazy.

1235
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:46,720
Speaker 1: And of course I've been playing organ that night, and

1236
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: he must have thought, oh, well, we'll get him in.

1237
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 1: And I played on a couple of tracks, one of

1238
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: which was apparently the B side or the extra track

1239
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:01,599
Speaker 1: on the famous Candle in the Wind, which at one

1240
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:04,160
Speaker 1: point was the best selling record of all times. So

1241
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,680
Speaker 1: my tenuous link to that is that I played on

1242
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 1: the other track, which is called something in the Way

1243
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:13,519
Speaker 1: You Look Tonight. Yeah, that that track is a known

1244
01:22:13,560 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 1: track to Okay, so you play the keyboard, you also

1245
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 1: play the guitar. Can you just basically play anything you

1246
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 1: have that facility? Yeah. I don't play any of the

1247
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 1: wind instruments, but yeah, I'm not great, you know. But

1248
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,680
Speaker 1: I it's I've got the musical instincts and I have

1249
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 1: a feel a natural field. You know, it's leaving. My

1250
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 1: son is the same. You know, he picks up, he

1251
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: picks up the guitar. He doesn't know what he's doing,

1252
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:44,760
Speaker 1: but he looks like he's played it all his life. Um.

1253
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:47,640
Speaker 1: So I have a feel, I have a groove, and

1254
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 1: that gets me a long way. Okay, So at this

1255
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:59,679
Speaker 1: point you have a desire to leave a body of work.

1256
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:04,600
Speaker 1: Isn't that sort of equivalent to having the hunger that

1257
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 1: we spoke of earlier? Possibly? Possibly? I mean, I don't know.

1258
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:17,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I I it's tempting to say I've given

1259
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,640
Speaker 1: it a good shot. I've had a great time. We

1260
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 1: could probably I could take it easy. Um, I don't know.

1261
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's in the genes or what

1262
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:32,800
Speaker 1: it is, or I just think I could have done

1263
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 1: so much better. Not commercially, but you know, musically I

1264
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 1: could have done better things. And maybe I had a

1265
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:44,000
Speaker 1: bit of recognition. Um that don't worried me too much.

1266
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 1: Probably scares me more than anything. But why does it scary? Well,

1267
01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 1: only because I don't like attention. Really, you know, if

1268
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 1: I go to the soccer game. I don't want people

1269
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: looking at me Paul character. I don't want that. I

1270
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:06,320
Speaker 1: don't I just like to live normal life, albeit you know, comfortably.

1271
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 1: Are you ever recognized? Occasionally? But not much? Okay, So

1272
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 1: we go through this history. Unlike someone who starts in

1273
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 1: the band stays in that band their whole career, you're

1274
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 1: constantly making new connections. Now people say, oh, it just happened.

1275
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 1: I've been around too long to know it doesn't happen

1276
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 1: that way. What was that. I'm not a networker, so

1277
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 1: how did it happen? I'm not a networker, and I

1278
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't hang out with Eric you know. Yeah,

1279
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:45,759
Speaker 1: well you know you're established. But over forty or fifty years,

1280
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:50,759
Speaker 1: opportunities have come up. Yeah, well they have just happened.

1281
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:53,599
Speaker 1: They have just happened. I haven't been out there beating

1282
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:59,240
Speaker 1: the bushes looking for this stuff. It has just happened. Okay.

1283
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:01,719
Speaker 1: But you know, there were no times to talk about

1284
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 1: be getting married, having kids, or no times you're sitting

1285
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 1: at home saying, man, I need a gig. I gotta

1286
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 1: start calling people up. See what's going on. No, well, fortunately,

1287
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 1: there for for whatever reason, um, I things have come

1288
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:20,040
Speaker 1: up at the right time when I mean, don't get

1289
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 1: me wrong, I was when I'm when when I'm in

1290
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 1: my mid thirties and my early forties and I've got

1291
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:31,000
Speaker 1: no hair and I've got four kids. Yeah, I was thinking,

1292
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,599
Speaker 1: oh my god, what am I gonna do? But thinks

1293
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:37,560
Speaker 1: always something always turned up. But I wasn't out there

1294
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: on the phone hustling. Honestly, I'm not like that. So

1295
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 1: you do a couple of songs. You write a couple

1296
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 1: songs that end up being done by the Eagles, one

1297
01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 1: on their Health Reasons Over album, another one I'm a

1298
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:58,639
Speaker 1: long run out of Eden album? How did that happen? Again?

1299
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 1: With the long sto Worice, It's a long story. I

1300
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:06,639
Speaker 1: want a long story. That's the best I've been going

1301
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 1: to an hour and a half already. Um Well. I

1302
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 1: first met Timothy B. Schmidt on our first tour, ass

1303
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 1: first tour of America, when we were riding high with

1304
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:27,920
Speaker 1: our big radio hit and Timothy is in the band

1305
01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 1: called Pocole. We're both on the same record label. I

1306
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:35,720
Speaker 1: met him, seemed like a real nice guy, and I

1307
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:40,240
Speaker 1: didn't really meet him again until later when I think

1308
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: I was probably on either doing my gigs with Nick

1309
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:49,720
Speaker 1: or in Nick's band, Nick Lowell's band, and Timothy came

1310
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:53,280
Speaker 1: down a few times with Don Henley, and I found

1311
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:56,720
Speaker 1: out that Don like what I did. He like that

1312
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 1: Suburban Voodoo album, and um, so he came down to

1313
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:06,599
Speaker 1: a few gigs. And then must be skipping a good

1314
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 1: few years here. But about in the mid nineties, when

1315
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 1: the Eagles hadn't weren't together, you know, for whatever reason,

1316
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: I have no idea, none of my business. Um but

1317
01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 1: I got a call from Don Felder who was keen

1318
01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 1: to do something that he and Timothy and at that point,

1319
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 1: I believe Joe Walsh also they would wanted to do. So,

1320
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 1: they wanted to work, They wanted to do a project,

1321
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 1: make a record, maybe do some gigs. And they called

1322
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 1: me up out of the blue and said, do you

1323
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:48,879
Speaker 1: fancy coming over to California? And you know, see what happens?

1324
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:52,120
Speaker 1: And I did just like that, just got on a

1325
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:55,640
Speaker 1: plane and went over there, stayed at Don's place, and

1326
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: I think it Joe at this point that bailed and

1327
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 1: he'd gone to get himself sorted out. And so there

1328
01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 1: was done. There was Timothy and another guy called Max Carl,

1329
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 1: a great guy. He was in a band called thirty

1330
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: eight Special, great singer, very funny guy, and we spent

1331
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 1: some time writing songs, making some recordings, and everybody was

1332
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:25,920
Speaker 1: getting out, oh this is interesting, this could be good,

1333
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:30,759
Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. And one of the songs

1334
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 1: I took over there was this song level Keepers Alive,

1335
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:40,120
Speaker 1: which was i'd co written with Peter Vale Jim Capaldi

1336
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 1: and with a view to taking it over for this project.

1337
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:49,799
Speaker 1: And so we took it over there. I was singing

1338
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: it and we were making these recordings, everybody getting cited.

1339
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 1: But obviously, to cut this long story short, now the

1340
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:02,720
Speaker 1: Eagles this I had to get back together. So that

1341
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,759
Speaker 1: was the end of that project. It never it didn't happen.

1342
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 1: But a few weeks later, um, I got a call

1343
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:14,680
Speaker 1: from Timothy and said, look, I need a song to

1344
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:19,080
Speaker 1: do on the Eagles album. How about I do love

1345
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:23,560
Speaker 1: Will Keepers Alive? And of course we said, well, big, yeah, absolutely,

1346
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: So he did that one and it was a big

1347
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 1: radio record. It was part of the Unplugged thing and

1348
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 1: all that. And likewise on the Health Freezers over Sorry

1349
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:42,800
Speaker 1: Long Road Out of Eden album, Timothy rang me up

1350
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:45,400
Speaker 1: and there's a there's another long story here, but basically

1351
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 1: I wrote the song no No No, No, no No. I

1352
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:50,839
Speaker 1: want to hear that story. Just telling that story. Timothy

1353
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 1: called me up and said, I need a song. We're

1354
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:56,920
Speaker 1: making an album. I need a song. Nothing that he'd

1355
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:00,080
Speaker 1: you know, presented to the band had been accept it.

1356
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:03,519
Speaker 1: And I put the phone. He said, have you got anything?

1357
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:06,519
Speaker 1: I said, well, I don't, but I'll try and write something,

1358
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 1: which I don't usually do. I'm not one of those

1359
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:12,080
Speaker 1: guys that does that. But I put the phone down

1360
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 1: and literally came up with the chorus for the song

1361
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 1: as I could hear the Eagles singing in three part

1362
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:21,519
Speaker 1: harmony sort of thing. And I made a little demo

1363
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:25,040
Speaker 1: and I sent it to Timothy and I didn't hear

1364
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 1: much from him. But then he said, oh, we're coming

1365
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:29,880
Speaker 1: over to England. We're going to play in London. You

1366
01:30:30,040 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 1: come on down, come to the show. And I did,

1367
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:34,599
Speaker 1: and he said by when I went to the show,

1368
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: he said, have you got anything? And I said, well,

1369
01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: there was that song I sent you. He said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

1370
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 1: send me that again. So I said, I sent it again.

1371
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:50,800
Speaker 1: And then there were weeks and months probably went by

1372
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:52,960
Speaker 1: and I didn't I wasn't hearing anything, and I sort

1373
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,200
Speaker 1: of got in touch with him and I said, oh,

1374
01:30:55,280 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 1: that song, I don't want to hear anymore. I said,

1375
01:30:58,560 --> 01:30:59,840
Speaker 1: if you if you're not going to do it, you

1376
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:02,000
Speaker 1: know I'm going to do it. So I think he's

1377
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:05,720
Speaker 1: he said, no, we were, Actually, I just you know,

1378
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 1: they he put it to the bend and they were

1379
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:12,160
Speaker 1: interested in doing it, and and they and the and

1380
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:14,679
Speaker 1: they recorded it and it went on a long road

1381
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 1: out of it. I think it's a good song. Actually,

1382
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear anymore. How do you know

1383
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:32,439
Speaker 1: wading with Jim Capaldi, I didn't really know Jim. I

1384
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:36,400
Speaker 1: think at one point he was possibly going to be

1385
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:42,120
Speaker 1: part of this project. To be honest with you, I

1386
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:45,960
Speaker 1: think they changed their mind about that, but at that

1387
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:49,080
Speaker 1: early stage it was possible he might be involved in this,

1388
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 1: in this Eagles offshoot thing. And so I met him

1389
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:57,559
Speaker 1: and we got together with this guy Pete Vail, who

1390
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:02,120
Speaker 1: there's a good song writer. Yeah, and that's what we

1391
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:05,439
Speaker 1: got together and wrote that song. Okay, So how many

1392
01:32:05,479 --> 01:32:07,760
Speaker 1: people went today? When you go out on the road,

1393
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:09,800
Speaker 1: how many people do you take? How many people are

1394
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:16,080
Speaker 1: in your band? There's there are there six or seven.

1395
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 1: We are We're seven. We have two drummers, one of

1396
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:23,639
Speaker 1: which is my son Jack. He's been with us about

1397
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:30,280
Speaker 1: ten years. They are bass, guitar, keyboards, sacks, and myself

1398
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:33,560
Speaker 1: playing keys and guitar alternating. How many is that that?

1399
01:32:33,640 --> 01:32:38,760
Speaker 1: Six or seven? I wasn't. Okay Um, yes, so it's

1400
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: it's it's quite a big bend, but it's great. The

1401
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,960
Speaker 1: guys have been with me for twenty odd years. They're

1402
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:51,800
Speaker 1: all from Sheffield, so they're all they're all proper, down

1403
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:56,600
Speaker 1: to earth guys than none of these hustling kind of

1404
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:59,680
Speaker 1: I know that's I don't want to disrespect anybody here,

1405
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:02,960
Speaker 1: but you know they're not hustling for gigs like you

1406
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:05,519
Speaker 1: have to do in London or l A or New York.

1407
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:08,600
Speaker 1: You've got to be busy. They're not. They're up in

1408
01:33:09,360 --> 01:33:11,760
Speaker 1: in Sheffield and they're not working with me. They play

1409
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 1: with their other things. There are other little projects and

1410
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:18,479
Speaker 1: it's like a proper band, except I'm the boss. And

1411
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 1: how did you meet the guys from Sheffield? Okay? Um,

1412
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 1: when I started doing this solo thing, nobody knew really

1413
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:32,760
Speaker 1: the name Paul Carrock. It's probably like it is in

1414
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:35,840
Speaker 1: the States. You go how long? Oh yeah, I know,

1415
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:39,720
Speaker 1: how long? Live here? I love that song. It's all

1416
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 1: that Paul character. I've never heard of him. So I

1417
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:49,759
Speaker 1: started doing these small gigs and I was using guys

1418
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 1: from London who were, you know, proper session guys used

1419
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:59,800
Speaker 1: to a high standard of not just wages but all

1420
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 1: the rest of it, the nice hotels, the nice travel

1421
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:04,760
Speaker 1: and I couldn't give it to them. But they were

1422
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,160
Speaker 1: trying to help me. But I felt it was a

1423
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:09,479
Speaker 1: burden because I felt I'm not giving them what they

1424
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:13,200
Speaker 1: do and what they used to. Anyway, I met I

1425
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:16,479
Speaker 1: met this guy at the football but the Sheffield Wednesday game,

1426
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:21,560
Speaker 1: and he was like this small time agent up in Sheffield,

1427
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:24,479
Speaker 1: and I tried to explain to him, oh, yeah, I'm

1428
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:26,519
Speaker 1: doing some gigs, but I no, I don't make any money.

1429
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:29,760
Speaker 1: No I don't mean yeah, I'm driving the van. And

1430
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:34,600
Speaker 1: he couldn't get his head around this anyway. Eventually he

1431
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:37,920
Speaker 1: said to me, well, listen, I've got this band. They're

1432
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:41,639
Speaker 1: really good. Um they got a lead singer but where

1433
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 1: he can play the keyboards and he could they could

1434
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:47,519
Speaker 1: do your gigs. And I went and I went and

1435
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:50,360
Speaker 1: met these guys and they were like oh yeah, great.

1436
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 1: So they I bolted myself onto this northern club bend

1437
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 1: and it was initially a lot of people thought, what's

1438
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:05,479
Speaker 1: Paul doing. He's playing with these guys up north, and

1439
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:09,280
Speaker 1: but it was worked great because these were these are

1440
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 1: great guys. They loved the opportunity to play with me,

1441
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:17,000
Speaker 1: and they could all play good. But they didn't have

1442
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:20,439
Speaker 1: reputations or big names or anything like that. So and

1443
01:35:20,479 --> 01:35:24,240
Speaker 1: that's it. And from twenty years we've grown to a

1444
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:28,760
Speaker 1: really good a really good band. Many people on the

1445
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:31,559
Speaker 1: business side would say, you take it out seven people.

1446
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:34,840
Speaker 1: Are you supposed to make any money? Well, I don't

1447
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:40,639
Speaker 1: pay him much, you know, Well that's that we are.

1448
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:42,920
Speaker 1: We are doing okay, because we know what we're doing.

1449
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 1: It's easy to waste money. It's easy to waste money

1450
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 1: making a record or going out on the road if

1451
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:50,800
Speaker 1: you don't know what you're doing. But if you do

1452
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:53,439
Speaker 1: know what you're doing, and you you spend the money

1453
01:35:53,479 --> 01:35:57,040
Speaker 1: in the right places, but you don't waste money, then

1454
01:35:57,240 --> 01:35:59,640
Speaker 1: you know you can make it workinly Okay. We know

1455
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 1: there's studio side, What are the dig a little bit

1456
01:36:02,120 --> 01:36:03,960
Speaker 1: deeper on the road side, what are the key things

1457
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 1: you must do or not doo. Um, you must be

1458
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:11,240
Speaker 1: good every night. You must be good every night. It's

1459
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 1: not good being on fire for three nights and then

1460
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:18,200
Speaker 1: burnt out for the rest of the tour. You know

1461
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:24,400
Speaker 1: you that's one thing, um or are you talking sort

1462
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:26,840
Speaker 1: of financially again? I like both of them. It wasn't

1463
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:32,880
Speaker 1: asked the other question. Yeah. Well, initially we weren't making

1464
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:37,639
Speaker 1: any money, um, but I didn't have to lose money

1465
01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:43,680
Speaker 1: because they took reasonable wages. We didn't over extend ourselves.

1466
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:47,120
Speaker 1: We did things very basically, and we've built up a

1467
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:51,439
Speaker 1: following from digging and gigging and gigging, and each year

1468
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 1: our standard has gone up. A standard of sound system,

1469
01:36:55,479 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 1: I standard of production, lighting venues, it goes up each year.

1470
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:06,000
Speaker 1: So now we play nice theaters here in the in

1471
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:09,920
Speaker 1: the UK and people keep coming back, you know. So

1472
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 1: it's I think that's how you do it, and how

1473
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 1: do you grow the audience you're talking about you have

1474
01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:19,640
Speaker 1: to be good every night? What are the other keys? Well,

1475
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:24,120
Speaker 1: I don't know the secrets to uh, you know, social

1476
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:27,120
Speaker 1: media and all that. I'm not a very not really

1477
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 1: a social media animal, but I guess you can make

1478
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:33,599
Speaker 1: that work for you. But in our case, it's been

1479
01:37:33,640 --> 01:37:39,000
Speaker 1: a case of you know, winning people over. We're we

1480
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:42,360
Speaker 1: we we we we take them. We take it seriously,

1481
01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:47,759
Speaker 1: our responsibility to two people. You might think that people

1482
01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:50,960
Speaker 1: that's obvious, but it isn't. In a lot of cases.

1483
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:54,040
Speaker 1: You know, some people kind of take their audience for

1484
01:37:54,040 --> 01:37:56,439
Speaker 1: granted a little bit. I don't know. I shouldn't be

1485
01:37:56,479 --> 01:38:00,880
Speaker 1: saying that, but we don't. I know that. So to

1486
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:03,759
Speaker 1: what degree does the audience know the material? You're putting

1487
01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:07,720
Speaker 1: out new records constantly, So when the audience comes, do

1488
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:11,800
Speaker 1: they know this music? How much of it can you play? Yeah? Well,

1489
01:38:11,800 --> 01:38:17,559
Speaker 1: it's a mixture because obviously we always include six or

1490
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:22,920
Speaker 1: seven songs there that are pretty substantial hits, Living Years,

1491
01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:28,160
Speaker 1: how long Tempted? Uh, you know, Love will Keepers Alive.

1492
01:38:28,479 --> 01:38:31,280
Speaker 1: These these are pretty big songs. So we're always going

1493
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:34,240
Speaker 1: to do them. We love doing them, we love the response.

1494
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:40,439
Speaker 1: So we've got people who know everything we've done, and

1495
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:43,160
Speaker 1: there's other people who may have heard a couple of things,

1496
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:50,200
Speaker 1: and then they're often surprised, Oh I know, right, you know,

1497
01:38:50,280 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 1: they know that they don't realize until they get there

1498
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:56,679
Speaker 1: that they know more of the material than they thought.

1499
01:38:56,720 --> 01:39:02,439
Speaker 1: But we've got some pretty pretty uh great fans. And

1500
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:04,640
Speaker 1: do you personally go out to the merch table and

1501
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:07,519
Speaker 1: sign and meet people? Actually, you know, I used to.

1502
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:10,040
Speaker 1: I used to do that just to prove what a

1503
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 1: nice guy I am. But I did I realized we're

1504
01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:16,160
Speaker 1: touring in the middle of winter. People are coming up

1505
01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 1: to you, going nice to meet your paul. Um. So

1506
01:39:20,120 --> 01:39:24,760
Speaker 1: we stopped doing that for hygiene reasons. And you say,

1507
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:27,519
Speaker 1: you you play the first couple of months in the year,

1508
01:39:28,479 --> 01:39:30,760
Speaker 1: can you go back to the same markets every year?

1509
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:35,640
Speaker 1: It seems so wow, that's really great. Okay, So if

1510
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:37,840
Speaker 1: you're looking at what we are always changing, we all

1511
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:40,080
Speaker 1: we usually have a new album out and we include

1512
01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:45,840
Speaker 1: new new stuff from that. Look, you're on stage the legends,

1513
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:48,960
Speaker 1: they play new music. It's a cliche. Everybody goes to

1514
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:52,760
Speaker 1: the bathroom. Yeah, how do you decide how much new

1515
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:55,519
Speaker 1: music to play and how do you keep the audience interested?

1516
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:58,880
Speaker 1: That's a good point. I mean, well, we're not we're

1517
01:39:58,880 --> 01:40:03,439
Speaker 1: not a greatest hits act. Um. I don't think the

1518
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:10,600
Speaker 1: music is the music is not inaccessible, if that's a word. Um,

1519
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:13,800
Speaker 1: you know you usually get this music or you don't,

1520
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:18,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's not that demanding in that sense, I

1521
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:23,040
Speaker 1: don't think, um, but I don't know. Obviously, it's uh,

1522
01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:27,360
Speaker 1: it's something we have to think about. But I think

1523
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,120
Speaker 1: generally speaking, they like the need, they like to hear

1524
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:33,840
Speaker 1: new stuff. Okay, if you look back at the landscape,

1525
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:36,360
Speaker 1: what are a couple of records not your own, not

1526
01:40:36,479 --> 01:40:38,479
Speaker 1: once you've worked on that are important to you, that

1527
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:41,960
Speaker 1: really motivated you or stick with you or you still play.

1528
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:48,240
Speaker 1: I love Talking Book, Oh yeah, especially at the time.

1529
01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:51,920
Speaker 1: I thought it was a groundbreaking, revolutionary and it was

1530
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:54,880
Speaker 1: one guy as well, a lot of it, you know,

1531
01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:58,240
Speaker 1: playing the stuff, and it had this own personality and

1532
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:01,800
Speaker 1: it wasn't even quantire back in those early days. It

1533
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:08,439
Speaker 1: would just hung together beautifully. And I love Moon Dance

1534
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:13,640
Speaker 1: Van Morrison two great records. Just think it's a beautiful

1535
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:17,680
Speaker 1: organic record. I love the sound of it, I love

1536
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:21,160
Speaker 1: the band on it, and of course Vans great. Um.

1537
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:29,200
Speaker 1: I think it's a very honest album. I love that album. Yeah, um,

1538
01:41:29,360 --> 01:41:33,400
Speaker 1: what else is there an Aretha record? I play a lot,

1539
01:41:33,439 --> 01:41:35,280
Speaker 1: but it's it's a compilation. I guess. I think it's

1540
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:38,040
Speaker 1: the greatest hits type thing. But again, it has that

1541
01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:43,760
Speaker 1: great band feel to it. Life feel to it. I've

1542
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:48,639
Speaker 1: got a pretty mixed mixed taste in music. And are

1543
01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:51,360
Speaker 1: you generally just playing your own music or are you

1544
01:41:51,479 --> 01:41:53,760
Speaker 1: listening to other people's music. Do you keep up on

1545
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:57,160
Speaker 1: new music? Where do you fall on that to continue?

1546
01:41:57,280 --> 01:41:59,559
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't really keep up with what's going on.

1547
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:03,320
Speaker 1: I haven't a clue what's going on. Um, I don't

1548
01:42:03,479 --> 01:42:05,879
Speaker 1: listen to my own stuff other than when I'm working

1549
01:42:06,280 --> 01:42:10,400
Speaker 1: at it, which I mean on the last year it's

1550
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:13,519
Speaker 1: been a lot because I've been doing it by herself.

1551
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:19,840
Speaker 1: It does mean you're playing it a lot, you know,

1552
01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:23,000
Speaker 1: because you're getting the parts right and all the rest

1553
01:42:23,040 --> 01:42:29,519
Speaker 1: of it. But no, I don't listen to much new stuff. UM.

1554
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:31,920
Speaker 1: I listened to a lot of old stuff. I listened

1555
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:38,160
Speaker 1: to like Amos Milbourne and Little Junior Parker and Mose

1556
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:44,840
Speaker 1: Allison and Donnie Hathaway, things like that. Some classical, some

1557
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:51,599
Speaker 1: English classical music which I find quite relaxing. And yeah, okay, Paul,

1558
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:54,320
Speaker 1: thanks for filling us in all this. Why you have

1559
01:42:54,439 --> 01:42:58,000
Speaker 1: good vacation down there on the coast of Spain. Thank you, Bob,

1560
01:42:58,320 --> 01:43:02,000
Speaker 1: so thanks so much for with this. You're very welcome,

1561
01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 1: and thank you for your patience listening to us, no listen,

1562
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:08,519
Speaker 1: is a little deep that it's good until next time.

1563
01:43:08,720 --> 01:43:31,880
Speaker 1: This is Bob left six h