Speaker 1: Well, well, well, the Thunder the Pacers exactly as we predicted,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly as I predicted, like thirty minutes ago. They
Speaker 1: appear to be on a finals collision. Course, we'll discuss
Speaker 1: whether wolves or Knicks can extend things, even make an
Speaker 1: unprecedented comeback, I guess not unprecedented. But also some news
Speaker 1: from around the NBA with NBA writer and musician Claire
Speaker 1: de Loon on today's episode.
Speaker 2: I'm Jack O'Brien and I'm Borian from Miles and this
Speaker 2: is Miles on Jack.
Speaker 3: I read boom ste.
Speaker 1: Dongitj three guy it, I look at dongjit h.
Speaker 3: T o kymb driving spinning by. I don't number nine two.
Speaker 4: That's good.
Speaker 2: Secure the selfis or NBA Champions to.
Speaker 3: The double t yon us to tell.
Speaker 1: What'd you go? Honest? Claire, Yes, NBA writer for The Guardian,
Speaker 1: lead vocalist and songwriter for Tiny Deaths. Just to remind you,
Speaker 1: because I don't know. Sometimes it's helpful. I forget who
Speaker 1: I am. Sometimes I do all the time. Yeah, what's good?
Speaker 1: How are you doing? How are you enjoying your NBA
Speaker 1: postseason thus far?
Speaker 5: I'm good, I'm uh.
Speaker 6: I guess there's been some controversy among the NBA fans
Speaker 6: about like if it's cool or not if that we're
Speaker 6: heading towards like a PACER's Thunder Finals. And I would
Speaker 6: just like to put my two cents in and say
Speaker 6: that the basketball aside as a media member, I would
Speaker 6: say this.
Speaker 5: Is like a zero tier.
Speaker 6: Travel finals for those of us to travel, right, So
Speaker 6: that that would be my two cents is that, Like
Speaker 6: I think the basketball would be hypothetically phenomenal, but from
Speaker 6: a travel perspective, Indianapolis and Oklahoma City are like pretty
Speaker 6: low on the power rankings of NBA cities to travel
Speaker 6: to for work.
Speaker 1: Like even San Antonio has the River Walk, you know,
Speaker 1: like you can even pretty.
Speaker 5: Much every other NBA city has.
Speaker 1: A little bit more has a little something. Indianapolis has
Speaker 1: that one steakhouse that has cocktail with very spicy, clear
Speaker 1: your nostrils all the way out. So that's something there,
Speaker 1: you go.
Speaker 5: Cocktail.
Speaker 2: Was it just for like the Final four or something
Speaker 2: like that, or does Indy, if I'm not mistaken, to
Speaker 2: have a basketball court at their airport?
Speaker 1: They did?
Speaker 5: That was just when they hosted All Star weekend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, got it didn't even look forward to that. Got it.
Speaker 1: Do they just have like a giant Papa shot thing
Speaker 1: and there was that just just for the Final four?
Speaker 1: Is there Convention Center always filled up with like basketball
Speaker 1: trivia games. Yeah, you know, it's a great play. I mean,
Speaker 1: they love hosting things that they're enthusiastic hosts. And imagine
Speaker 1: I feel like the fans of both sides will be
Speaker 1: so revved up for this that maybe you can at
Speaker 1: least like bask in the secondhand serotonin, all the good
Speaker 1: brain chemicals that'll be sloshing around.
Speaker 5: In our cities arenas. It'll be awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And the basketball is good. We'll
Speaker 1: get to that. But the basketball, I feel like the
Speaker 1: two coolest things I've seen so far in the postseason
Speaker 1: are the Pacers coming back, just like making incredible, unprecedented
Speaker 1: like comebacks. It's like just starting from the Bucks series,
Speaker 1: Like I remember that was I think that might be
Speaker 1: the only thing that I live texted you guys about Jamar.
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, just see how Milwaukee went out.
Speaker 1: And then also Oklahoma City's defense. It's to the two
Speaker 1: kind of strongest weapons that seem like they're going to
Speaker 1: actually be in the finals, which is exciting, but of
Speaker 1: course we have to talk about the Lakers. Of course,
Speaker 1: because we got Claire here, who you know, great Lakers coverage.
Speaker 1: Lebron rumored to be planning to opt in this summer. Yes,
Speaker 1: I feel like Lebron currently is underrated once again because
Speaker 1: one thousand, Yeah, because of how the season ended, by
Speaker 1: the way by Lakers fans full disclosure clear.
Speaker 2: So I feel like Jack is going here, I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell him myself, I am not underrating Lebron. I
Speaker 2: merely stated that in the event that he wanted to
Speaker 2: move on for his final season and go back to Cleveland,
Speaker 2: I would support him in his dreams.
Speaker 5: That's all I agree with that.
Speaker 6: I'm I'm currently like tempering my rage because I was
Speaker 6: listening to Bill Simmons this morning and he was ranking
Speaker 6: his top fifteen players heading into next season, and he
Speaker 6: didn't even have Lebron in the top fifteen, not.
Speaker 1: In the top fifteen, and I was like, it's death.
Speaker 1: At like eight or seven.
Speaker 6: I was like, can we make the math math the
Speaker 6: fact that this man was second team All NBA, which
Speaker 6: just by definition theoretically makes you a top ten player
Speaker 6: in the NBA if you're just going by the numbers,
Speaker 6: of all NBA as theoretically the best fifteen players in
Speaker 6: the league, and then he doesn't even make your top fifteen,
Speaker 6: even with a spot vacated by Jason Tatum, who he
Speaker 6: left off due to injury. Yeah, because he'll be out
Speaker 6: for all of next season. Yeah, so I'm like, make
Speaker 6: make the math math that Lebron is somehow now a
Speaker 6: worse NBA player than Jalen Williams and Karl Anthony Towns
Speaker 6: and like.
Speaker 5: In his top fIF like Iron James.
Speaker 1: I saw. I saw people saying Kat has like had
Speaker 1: a great season. I've seen him play really well in
Speaker 1: the playoffs. I've seen him play not so well in
Speaker 1: the playoffs, and I'm here to tell you that I
Speaker 1: would take Lebron James over that.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That that was that was interesting. I feel like in
Speaker 1: intense recency bias, well it was about.
Speaker 6: Kingd of recency bias, which is what I tried to
Speaker 6: tell myself as I was like going into a blind rage.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: But but yeah, No, I do think Lebron is just
Speaker 6: sort of like the last few years he's just been
Speaker 6: there's been this rhythm of like he is consistently underrated
Speaker 6: in the off season due to his age. Yeah, then
Speaker 6: he spends an entire NBA season showing that his age
Speaker 6: is like not nearly as much of a factor as
Speaker 6: the like theoretical narrative would have you.
Speaker 1: Believe, because people are like, surely not this time.
Speaker 6: Surely sure They're like, like Bill's reasoning was like, well,
Speaker 6: he's going to be forty one.
Speaker 5: I'm like, well he was forty and he just made second.
Speaker 1: You know how you know how old he was last season?
Speaker 1: Is cravity.
Speaker 2: I have a theory to that it's all the lost
Speaker 2: guys like me that are like, well, I know how
Speaker 2: I feel in my forties way that I can.
Speaker 6: Almost as if Lebron James is a unique physical specimen
Speaker 6: that is not a direct one for one representation of
Speaker 6: other people who are forty plus.
Speaker 1: But I'm just going to need to see him do
Speaker 1: it more, you know, like he did it as a
Speaker 1: forty year old one years. Yeah, so defying expectations.
Speaker 6: But I agree with you that if the Cleveland thing happens,
Speaker 6: I think you know it would be there's plenty of
Speaker 6: reasons for him to want to play for Cleveland versus
Speaker 6: LA like not, the least of which is that the
Speaker 6: Eastern Conference looks like it's going to be as weak
Speaker 6: as it's ever been next year.
Speaker 1: So fun. Yeah, I think I think I support that
Speaker 1: on the mainly on the basis that it would be
Speaker 1: so cute if you actually it would be so.
Speaker 6: Actually, I think that you're onto something there, even though
Speaker 6: I know it's sort of tongue in cheap because I think,
Speaker 6: you know, people have asked me like, where would Lebron
Speaker 6: go and whatever, and what I've said to them every time,
Speaker 6: and this isn't like reporting, this is just conjecture based
Speaker 6: on you know, following him very closely.
Speaker 5: Is that I think he's.
Speaker 6: So preoccupied with narrative and I think that's super important
Speaker 6: to him. And I really don't see him ending his
Speaker 6: career anywhere besides LA unless it fits like the narrative
Speaker 6: arc of his career that he's trying to create. And
Speaker 6: I could really see like a end it where I
Speaker 6: started it and it where it all began, just a
Speaker 6: kid from Akron, you know, type narrative arc. So I
Speaker 6: think if he's gonna leave LA, which I haven't really
Speaker 6: heard anything to make me believe that that's the case,
Speaker 6: I think it would be cleveland if I if I
Speaker 6: had to guess, But I haven't heard, honestly, anything that
Speaker 6: makes me believe that he would be leaving. The only
Speaker 6: thing is just like if you're watching the Lakers and
Speaker 6: watching the sort of trajectory of the team, if he
Speaker 6: wants to win a ring next year in his theoretical
Speaker 6: potential last year in the league, Like I just based
Speaker 6: on the moves the Lakers can make right now, like
Speaker 6: and how good the West is and how much even
Speaker 6: better it's potentially going to be next season, Like it's
Speaker 6: an uphill it's going to be an uphill climb for
Speaker 6: them to become contenders with what they have to work
Speaker 6: with right now.
Speaker 1: I think, and I feel like he's best served right now.
Speaker 1: But he did defensively towards the end of this season
Speaker 1: where he just suddenly became a stopper and like was
Speaker 1: just awesome all over the boards and stuff. Was like,
Speaker 1: it's amazing to see that he can do that. But
Speaker 1: I feel like he might be better served on a
Speaker 1: team like Cleveland where he's just like there's an offensive
Speaker 1: weapon and you know Mobile is backing him up. Yeahs
Speaker 1: oppose time have.
Speaker 6: To be the defense at forty one years old, It's
Speaker 6: like that you're sick.
Speaker 5: I would imagine you had an idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, big news. Though, there's a picture of Luca where
Speaker 1: he's looking slim and trim, so that's the other big
Speaker 1: Lakers news. Are you guys buying it? He did look slim,
Speaker 1: he looked trim A hell great.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that additive free European food can do
Speaker 6: the body good. He's back home for a while, I think, Yeah,
Speaker 6: I don't think he's to my knowledge, he spends his
Speaker 6: off season not in the United States. But yeah, I
Speaker 6: mean I think, you know, he's got to be on
Speaker 6: a mish at least a revenge mission like whatever however
Speaker 6: that manifest for him, whether that's like, you know, putting
Speaker 6: the time and energy into getting in better shape or
Speaker 6: whatever it is. But like, there's no way he's going
Speaker 6: to be going into his first full season having been
Speaker 6: traded from the Mavericks without being on like a violent
Speaker 6: mission to prove Neco Harrison wrong. You know, like that
Speaker 6: just seems inevitable. So I wouldn't be surprised at all
Speaker 6: if he got in really great shape this summer.
Speaker 1: People need to just start seeding like being like Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are calling him the new Luca.
Speaker 1: People are saying that that trade actually makes a lot
Speaker 1: of sense.
Speaker 6: Now, Mavericks have been doing that for freaking six months,
Speaker 6: just like dragging his name through the mud and leaking
Speaker 6: every like besmirching story that you could possibly imagine, Like
Speaker 6: he has all the fodder that he needs.
Speaker 3: Do you remember, you know what it feels like.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that one Kobe commercial from back in
Speaker 2: the day when it was like it shows him in
Speaker 2: training and it was like all of the different articles,
Speaker 2: all of the different headlines, all of the different you know,
Speaker 2: like rebuddle to you know, his greatness or whatever, and
Speaker 2: it was essentially him saying, like, you know, like I'm
Speaker 2: going to use this as motivation, just basically just put
Speaker 2: up all of Nico's in all of Dallas's you know,
Speaker 2: comments and leaks over the last six months to your point,
Speaker 2: and yeah, I can't see how he's not going to
Speaker 2: be ready.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, for sure.
Speaker 1: Do they have moves? I don't. I refuse to learn
Speaker 1: do the homework of like learning about the yeah, the
Speaker 1: apron all that stuff.
Speaker 6: How do we feel I would debunk one thing that
Speaker 6: I've heard Lakers fans say, which is like, oh, well,
Speaker 6: if Lebron walks and we'll have all this cap space
Speaker 6: to like go sign whoever. There's two things to that
Speaker 6: that to debunk that myth thing. Number one, the way
Speaker 6: that the collective bargaining agreement it's et cetera.
Speaker 1: Work.
Speaker 6: It's not like they just have access to all the
Speaker 6: money of Lebron's that was on the books if he
Speaker 6: were to walk, like, oh, he left, so now we
Speaker 6: have fifty million dollars to play with. Like, I think
Speaker 6: what it actually ends up being if Lebron and Dorian
Speaker 6: Phiney Smith both decided not to opt in, is I
Speaker 6: think they have total as far as like tax pit
Speaker 6: to stay under the taxpayer limit. It's like sixteen million
Speaker 6: or twenty million or something like that. It's very little
Speaker 6: to work with. So it would not be to the
Speaker 6: Laker's benefit for Lebron not to opt into his contract.
Speaker 6: Like if you're trying to say, like, oh, that money
Speaker 6: could be better used elsewhere and he decides he wants
Speaker 6: to be traded because he does have a no trade clause,
Speaker 6: then that money could be used for something else, but
Speaker 6: not just if he ops out. And then the other
Speaker 6: thing is I think there's been a lot of people
Speaker 6: being like, oh, like go get this and go get that.
Speaker 6: They don't have a ton of like movable assets that
Speaker 6: are desirable or have like positive trade value, even like
Speaker 6: they have one first round pick left, but that first
Speaker 6: round pick is now of course worth a lot less
Speaker 6: than it was before Luca was there, because theoretically they're
Speaker 6: going to be good for a while with such a
Speaker 6: young superstar. But yeah, so I think the average fan
Speaker 6: things they don't might maybe don't know. A Lebron has
Speaker 6: no trade clause, so he's only gonna if he opts in.
Speaker 6: He can only get traded if he wants to, and
Speaker 6: he has to sign off on wherever.
Speaker 1: That is.
Speaker 6: Number two, they don't have access to that salary if
Speaker 6: he does opt out. That's not how the aprons work.
Speaker 6: I'm not going to get too far into the weeds there.
Speaker 6: And number three is like they probably have to get
Speaker 6: pretty much anything that they're going to want to get
Speaker 6: because of the aprons via trade and they don't have
Speaker 6: a ton of super valuable trade assets ipso facto like dramatic,
Speaker 6: huge seismic moves this summer probably not in the cards.
Speaker 6: But I would have said that a Lukadn's trade mid
Speaker 6: season wasn't.
Speaker 5: In the cards either.
Speaker 1: So Lakers fans love making a shopping list for you.
Speaker 1: They're like, let's go get me proof.
Speaker 2: So we're going to respond as a Lakers fan and say, so,
Speaker 2: what you're saying is Austin Reeves is gone?
Speaker 3: Now, okay, got it all right? What can we get?
Speaker 6: So I guess that's also another good Maybe I'm just
Speaker 6: here to debunk Lakers things. The other thing I would
Speaker 6: mention as because there's been so much talk about I've
Speaker 6: heard talking heads be like he's for sure gone this summer.
Speaker 6: Like I haven't heard that at all. What I would
Speaker 6: say about Austin is like what makes a lot more?
Speaker 6: He's on one of the best.
Speaker 5: Value contracts in the ABA right now.
Speaker 6: He's if he think he's making like sub fourteen million
Speaker 6: dollars at the moment. So for what he provides as
Speaker 6: like a bonifide third option, like that is crazy value.
Speaker 5: Obviously, that crazy value.
Speaker 6: Makes him a more desirable trade candidate, except that he's
Speaker 6: up for an extension, which he's almost certainly going to decline.
Speaker 6: He's going to become a free agent. He's going to
Speaker 6: want to get paid. He's going to command upwards of
Speaker 6: thirty million dollars. A year, and anyone who trades for
Speaker 6: him would know that, So it'd have to be a
Speaker 6: team first of all that's willing to pay him, so
Speaker 6: that eliminates some people. Second of all, the Lakers could actually,
Speaker 6: in my opinion, benefit way more for the reasons I
Speaker 6: said about the Lebron salary thing. From keeping Austin, giving
Speaker 6: him whatever money he commands as a free agent next summer,
Speaker 6: and then if they want to make a trade, then
Speaker 6: they can get thirty to forty million dollars worth of
Speaker 6: player back for him, versus if they trade him right now.
Speaker 6: Because of the salary cap and how close they are
Speaker 6: to that will be to that second apron, they can't
Speaker 6: take back more salary than they give out. So they're
Speaker 6: going to have to get fourteen million dollars worth of
Speaker 6: NBA player back for Austin Reeves. And if you you know,
Speaker 6: survey the market, even if you're just looking for a center,
Speaker 6: the caliber of player you're going to get back for
Speaker 6: fourteen million dollars is just not what Austin Reeves is
Speaker 6: bringing to your roster. So it's in the Lakers' best
Speaker 6: interest in all likelihood to keep him, give him whatever.
Speaker 5: Money he wants.
Speaker 6: Next summer when he's a free agent, and then at
Speaker 6: that point, if they want to move on for him
Speaker 6: for a fit that they think is better next to Luca,
Speaker 6: it'll give them more salary flexibility to do so.
Speaker 1: I'd like fourteen million dollars worth of NBA player please,
Speaker 1: thank you very much. I get that tick sliced.
Speaker 5: And it's a nice empathetic way to discuss human beings.
Speaker 1: Love it it's I mean, it is the It does
Speaker 1: feel like the Laker fan way where they're just like,
Speaker 1: all right, go ahead.
Speaker 3: And get Rea and that's it.
Speaker 1: Fifteen million dollars of small forwards, get me, thirty million
Speaker 1: dollars of backup center and point guard. You guys need
Speaker 1: a dang point guard. It turns out. Let's uh, let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break and we'll be right back and
Speaker 1: talk about the remaining teams and why point guards are
Speaker 1: suddenly so valuable and we're back, and yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's three to one. Both series I wish it wasn't.
Speaker 1: The Next Pacers series has been super fun. I wish
Speaker 1: it was going going the distance. Maybe, I mean maybe
Speaker 1: the next turn a corner, but it certainly didn't look
Speaker 1: like it in Game four, it looked that that felt
Speaker 1: like a pretty definitive win for the For the Pacers,
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel I don't know, I just don't feel
Speaker 1: great about where the Knicks are at right now, especially
Speaker 1: like the feels like even though Brunson is a bucket
Speaker 1: when you most need a bucket, and he has scored
Speaker 1: forty three thirty six twenty three thirty one in the series,
Speaker 1: the game where he scored twenty three and was in
Speaker 1: foul trouble was the game where they like made a run.
Speaker 1: They seem to have like made more runs when he's out.
Speaker 1: I think it's because like the Pacers seem to match
Speaker 1: Haliburton with him, and so like Haliburton might not be
Speaker 1: in as much when he's out. But it just, I
Speaker 1: don't know, like there's something about this matchup where in
Speaker 1: just the speed with which the Pacers moved the ball
Speaker 1: around and you know, Brunson's defensive limitations that it just
Speaker 1: like I feel like it's a riddle that the Knicks
Speaker 1: still haven't quite solved and nobody has really I mean,
Speaker 1: the Pacers feel like they're about to go to the finals,
Speaker 1: and it's I'm convinced, like I don't I don't feel
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel fluky to me, like they feel like
Speaker 1: the best team I've seen in the East.
Speaker 5: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 6: I mean their path was bonified, like they got through Giannis,
Speaker 6: and also all of this has been in five games,
Speaker 6: Like they've gotten decisively through all of these rounds. You know,
Speaker 6: they got through honest, they got through the Calves, which
Speaker 6: were ostensibly the best team in the East all year long.
Speaker 6: And then the Knicks, you know, who just took down
Speaker 6: the defending champs and were kind of on fire and
Speaker 6: on a roll. They seemed to be making like relatively
Speaker 6: quick work of them as well. So like that's kind
Speaker 6: of hard to argue with. I would push back on
Speaker 6: you saying that Game four seemed super definitive, like I
Speaker 6: think all these games have been, you know, like I
Speaker 6: don't feel super convinced about either team in any win.
Speaker 6: I mean, if you look at it, like the Knicks
Speaker 6: should have won Game one, Like were it not for
Speaker 6: Andrew Neasmith, absolute heroics the likes of which we've almost
Speaker 6: never seen I think in the NBA playoffs, like they
Speaker 6: would have won Game one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was just because his great grandfather
Speaker 1: invented the game.
Speaker 6: You know advantage, you know, I think this could easily
Speaker 6: be a two to two series. And that's kind of
Speaker 6: how Game four felt to me, Like there were so
Speaker 6: many moments where the Knicks just weren't able to capitalize
Speaker 6: on the momentum. Like it felt like every time they
Speaker 6: were kind of taking control of the game, they let
Speaker 6: go of the rope in one way or another. But
Speaker 6: I didn't feel like, Oh, the Pacers are definitively the
Speaker 6: better team here. I just felt like, Oh, the Pacers
Speaker 6: are playing just better enough tonight to eg out this win.
Speaker 6: And I feel like every single game has been like
Speaker 6: a coin flip really, which is what's made this series
Speaker 6: so fun. But I don't think I don't think the
Speaker 6: Knicks should overreact to this series and be like, Oh,
Speaker 6: we need to tear this all.
Speaker 5: Down, we need to get this whole project.
Speaker 6: I think there's a universe where, you know, the Pacers
Speaker 6: aren't the team of destiny that it feels like they
Speaker 6: are this year, where every bounce goes their way, every
Speaker 6: you know, every shot that needs to go in goes in,
Speaker 6: where all those variance elements are not you know, not
Speaker 6: in their favor, where the Knicks are going to the
Speaker 6: NBA Finals, like they are right there. They were so close,
Speaker 6: and I think we have sort of like a tendency
Speaker 6: to overthink the playoffs sometimes when like a bounce doesn't
Speaker 6: go our way, when like the controllables are what you
Speaker 6: can control obviously, and then there's like the luck, fate,
Speaker 6: destinies and a siquah of the playoffs, and like certain
Speaker 6: teams just kind of feel like they have that, and
Speaker 6: I feel like that's how the Pacers feel right now.
Speaker 6: Like I don't think the Knicks are far away, I
Speaker 6: do feel like their weaknesses have been exposed specifically in
Speaker 6: this Pacers series, which is that because Brunson isn't like
Speaker 6: a defensive minded Garden, he kind of needs to be
Speaker 6: on the floor for them to be at their best.
Speaker 5: It is like a little bit of a.
Speaker 6: Liability to have another offensive first player like Kat on
Speaker 6: the floor with him, and your top two players are
Speaker 6: basically like offense first, like defensively lacking, and that's made
Speaker 6: their starting lineup have a horrible plus minus and that's
Speaker 6: made it kind of hard for Tips to juggle lineups.
Speaker 6: So that would be where I think they could address
Speaker 6: in this offseason, Like we need to surround Brunson should
Speaker 6: be the priority, like with more defense. But besides that,
Speaker 6: I mean, I think they're right there, and like the
Speaker 6: Celtics are a non issue for the next year, Johannis
Speaker 6: might be leaving the conference. So I wouldn't like overreact
Speaker 6: to this Pacers series, would I would be this is
Speaker 6: the farthest they've gotten in you know, my lifetime, so
Speaker 6: I think they should. They're on the right track. There's
Speaker 6: just tweaks that need to be made.
Speaker 3: Of the two teams between the Knicks and the Wolves.
Speaker 2: Obviously the two teams that are both down, you have
Speaker 2: three one which do you feel more confidently in at
Speaker 2: least extending.
Speaker 1: This series? It's sending this year.
Speaker 6: This year, I think the next time a better chance
Speaker 6: than the Wolves, just because I think the Wolves have
Speaker 6: looked relatively outclassed in most of these games, except for
Speaker 6: that one game where they absolutely blew them out and
Speaker 6: it was just.
Speaker 5: Like the upside down.
Speaker 6: But I would say for the most part in these games,
Speaker 6: it's more what you were kind of referencing, where it's like, oh,
Speaker 6: one of these teams is clearly better than the other,
Speaker 6: And I just personally feel like these the Eastern Conference finals.
Speaker 6: The reason they've been so fun is because it really
Speaker 6: does feel like a coin flip series. It feels like
Speaker 6: two teams that are both really good in very opposite
Speaker 6: ways and like play very different styles, and the clash
Speaker 6: of the styles has just sort of been like the
Speaker 6: Pacers have been able to impose their style on the
Speaker 6: series more than the Knicks have been able to do so,
Speaker 6: and you know, at the end of the day, their
Speaker 6: best handful of players have played better than the knicks
Speaker 6: handful of players in that series. But it does feel
Speaker 6: like a more closely matched series. And if the Knicks
Speaker 6: were able to, like, for example, command the boards like
Speaker 6: they should be doing because that's more fundamental to their
Speaker 6: identity than the Pacers, like, it could be a different series.
Speaker 6: So to be fair, I don't honestly really think either
Speaker 6: of these series or going in the distance, But if
Speaker 6: I had to guess, I would take the Knicks over
Speaker 6: the Wolves in that scenario.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess, not definitive necessarily, but just like it.
Speaker 1: They do seem to have like more bullets, They seem
Speaker 1: to have like more ways to win for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Deeper, I feel like they're like they have the better
Speaker 1: coaching going right now Pacers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which.
Speaker 5: Is funny, am I.
Speaker 6: So I know that we're having like a Carlisle renaissance
Speaker 6: right now, and you know, deservedly.
Speaker 5: So he's been awesome. I'm like, I'm old enough to remember.
Speaker 6: Last year when he made some like horrible coaching blenders
Speaker 6: in the playoffs and we were like.
Speaker 5: What are you doing?
Speaker 6: Like the it was they were on the other end
Speaker 6: of some like comebacks and like unlikely things last year.
Speaker 6: So obviously he you know, they grew from that. And
Speaker 6: I'm not putting that all on Carlisle because it was
Speaker 6: a young team and you make mistakes as a young team.
Speaker 6: But I remember having conversations like as a guest.
Speaker 1: On podcasts passed him by, yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, being like, oh, he's like messing up like kind
Speaker 6: of a lot, Like this is atle embarrassing, like does
Speaker 6: Carlisle still have his fastball?
Speaker 5: Like what's going on?
Speaker 6: So it's kind of interesting that now the narrative it's
Speaker 6: like we're as such a recency bias like economy of media,
Speaker 6: but like now every conversation is like he's a bonafide
Speaker 6: Hall of Fame NBA coach.
Speaker 5: Is he one of the top four coaches in the league.
Speaker 6: Like the conversation just hinges so much on this run
Speaker 6: they've been on, which is understandable. But it's just like
Speaker 6: he he got out coached in a couple of series,
Speaker 6: like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, last season, the people were coming back on them,
Speaker 1: and he was like, we should do that, and also
Speaker 1: like people when he saw those people like making shots
Speaker 1: to come back, he was like, we should like do
Speaker 1: better shot making. I think being even older than you
Speaker 1: and being able to remember like a decade ago, he
Speaker 1: does seem to be the only coach that I can
Speaker 1: remember where it was like, oh, I think they won,
Speaker 1: Like you know, the team won because like they didn't
Speaker 1: have as much talent, but they won because like they
Speaker 1: had like schemed in a way like that in Dallas
Speaker 1: when they beat Len where they just like broke Lebron's brain.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that was all him necessarily at all.
Speaker 5: But he's a really good coach.
Speaker 1: Just yeah, that, but like going into the playoffs every year,
Speaker 1: I'm always like, well, and they do have Carlisle, which
Speaker 1: is you know, that's that could be an advantage. He's
Speaker 1: also just such just knowing people in the coaching world. Uh,
Speaker 1: my dad worked for him one time. He's like a
Speaker 1: nash Or. I guess he's like in Texas, one of
Speaker 1: the top table tennis players for his age, A classically
Speaker 1: trained pianist. He's like a scratch golfer who makes his
Speaker 1: own golf clubs. He's just like this, Like he was
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, he just never sleeps, and it's just
Speaker 1: like a weird genius.
Speaker 3: Looks like Jim Carrey.
Speaker 1: And also my other friend who's a coach, told me
Speaker 1: that one time they were getting lunch and he ordered
Speaker 1: a graveyard.
Speaker 3: Do what that is?
Speaker 1: No, It's like when you get you ask somebody to
Speaker 1: go to the soda fountain and just put every different
Speaker 1: type of soda in it like a child. It's a
Speaker 1: child's drig and he has a grown up was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: give me the graveyard. Anyways, Okay, see, I mean what
Speaker 1: do we think is It's like there's been a lot
Speaker 1: of talk about you know, ANT isn't showing up. I
Speaker 1: feel like I feel for anybody who has to go
Speaker 1: against that, okay, see perimeter defense. And I feel like
Speaker 1: what we've seen from Aunt again, who is like so
Speaker 1: much younger than I feel like people remember, yeah, has
Speaker 1: been a step forward, like compared to what he did
Speaker 1: in the Western Conference Finals last year, which again he's
Speaker 1: in the Western Conference Finals again with probably less talent
Speaker 1: around him. I've been impressed with what I see in places,
Speaker 1: and then there's definitely been some rough spots too, But yeah.
Speaker 6: I think the thunder of to answer your first question,
Speaker 6: like kind of like they've answered every question that people
Speaker 6: had to them going into this postseason, myself included. It
Speaker 6: was just like they are it's so rare for the
Speaker 6: youngest team in the league to be the best team
Speaker 6: in the league, Like that is just really hard to compute.
Speaker 6: So it was sort of like I'll believe it when
Speaker 6: I see it, you know, with them, even though they
Speaker 6: had shown us all regular season that they were the
Speaker 6: best team in basketball, like with a bullet really. And
Speaker 6: I think we've kind of, like not to sound too
Speaker 6: like Saccer, but I think we've kind of watched them
Speaker 6: grow up over the course of these playoffs. Like I
Speaker 6: do feel like they look like a different team, different
Speaker 6: caliber of team now than they did in Round one
Speaker 6: and even for the majority of Round two, Like, I
Speaker 6: think that test from Denver really brought out their maturity,
Speaker 6: and it was the first time all season that they
Speaker 6: had really been sort of rattled, and I think you
Speaker 6: kind of watched them grow up from that, and they
Speaker 6: just look so mature and poised and different in this
Speaker 6: Minnesota series, partially, I think because Denver was like a
Speaker 6: little bit worse of a matchup for them than Minnesota,
Speaker 6: but partially because they've been now, they've gone through, They've
Speaker 6: gotten further in the playoffs at this point than they
Speaker 6: ever have before, and they just look ready to me,
Speaker 6: Like I wasn't sure if they were, but at this
Speaker 6: point I would be really surprised if either team from
Speaker 6: the East beats them in the finals.
Speaker 5: Like I think, I think they're ready.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things is watching a young team
Speaker 2: developing the way that you just described.
Speaker 3: Because like, I love watching how a team responds to
Speaker 3: getting punched in the mouth. You know, they go.
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, they went down to one to Denver?
Speaker 2: Did they not in that series?
Speaker 6: I think they they lost game one, but I think
Speaker 6: did they not then win the next two?
Speaker 5: I might be remembering incorrectly.
Speaker 2: But I could be off, but they were obviously challenged
Speaker 2: along the way, and seeing them get off the mat
Speaker 2: each time and seeing them not just do that, but
Speaker 2: respond and say like, Okay, yeah, we got this. Seeing
Speaker 2: Jalen Williams, who's found his offensive groove again over the
Speaker 2: course of this postseason, it's inspiring.
Speaker 3: But you're exactly right, they have been the best team.
Speaker 2: It was really just upon us, with us sitting back
Speaker 2: saying like, oh, you have to show us, and clearly
Speaker 2: they were ready to do that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it was mainly me challenging them that did it.
Speaker 5: You were alone in your concerns.
Speaker 1: No one else still still don't see it.
Speaker 6: But with Minnesota, I think, yeah, I'm actually writing on
Speaker 6: that right now, and like, I think we have this
Speaker 6: sort of tendency to project expectations on a team or
Speaker 6: a player and then when they don't meet those expectations,
Speaker 6: the sky is falling. And it's like everyone was like,
Speaker 6: you know, making comparisons to Michael Jordan and like saying
Speaker 6: it was the next face of the league. And the
Speaker 6: truth is he's still twenty three years old and he's just.
Speaker 5: Not there yet.
Speaker 6: But the fact that he's already been the best player
Speaker 6: on a Western Conference finals team two years running is
Speaker 6: like a legit accomplishment. And I have no doubt that
Speaker 6: he will at some point make the NBA Finals and
Speaker 6: win a championship, like he's that good, But I do
Speaker 6: I think he's had a subpar supporting cast both times.
Speaker 6: Like I just like, I know they're deep with you know,
Speaker 6: as far as like role player talent, but his like
Speaker 6: number two in both cases I don't think was a
Speaker 6: like good enough and be like the ideal fit next
Speaker 6: to him in either case. And then I think Rudy
Speaker 6: Gobert is like a really clunky fit with Anthony Edwards.
Speaker 6: And I've always felt that way, and I never was,
Speaker 6: you know, in favor of that trade. I think it's
Speaker 6: really really there's like the floor spacing is obviously lacking,
Speaker 6: and it's especially lacking when Julius Randall is a no show,
Speaker 6: which has happened to out of the four games in
Speaker 6: the series.
Speaker 5: But I just this is not the ideal.
Speaker 6: Team build around Anthony Edwards, I don't think, and I
Speaker 6: don't know how long it's going to take them to
Speaker 6: get there, but I think it's a little bit like
Speaker 6: unfair to expect a championship when the team is still
Speaker 6: like quite a clunky fit, even though they are deep
Speaker 6: and they are good and you know whatnot and they're
Speaker 6: is a great regular season defensive player, but like he's
Speaker 6: just proven that in the playoffs there is a minimum
Speaker 6: of one series per year where he is basically unplayable,
Speaker 6: Like it has been true his entire career, Like, regardless
Speaker 6: of how far his team goes in the playoffs, there's
Speaker 6: a series where Rudy gober gets played off the floor.
Speaker 5: And like Misther, what is either a second highest paid
Speaker 5: player or third highest paid. So it's just that's just
Speaker 5: tough to overcome, I.
Speaker 1: Think, all right, from one player that's openly disliked by
Speaker 1: players around the league to another. I do just want
Speaker 1: to talk about Halliburton and specifically, I actually just want
Speaker 1: to ask this question broadly. Is it a coincidence that
Speaker 1: three of the four final teams that in a playoffs
Speaker 1: that has felt like a sort of changing of the guard,
Speaker 1: where like I feel like a lot you know, these
Speaker 1: are a lot of young teams, a lot of people
Speaker 1: who you know, haven't done it before. Three of the
Speaker 1: four final teams are led by like scoring point guards
Speaker 1: or you know, like Halliburton is scoring a lot right now.
Speaker 1: It feels like point guards have suddenly like it I
Speaker 1: remember two years ago watching the Suns be like, we
Speaker 1: don't need a point guard, Like we're just like Devin Booker,
Speaker 1: our shooting guard will bring the ball to the court
Speaker 1: and we're just you know, And that didn't go well.
Speaker 1: The Lakers kind of tried like a similar thing at
Speaker 1: various points this year, and I just feel like we're
Speaker 1: seeing a thing happen where like point guard is suddenly
Speaker 1: incredibly important at a time when it was supposed to
Speaker 1: be becoming less and less important.
Speaker 6: I mean, I would say, like the point guards that
Speaker 6: are left are so different that I don't know if
Speaker 6: like you could take it as a referendum on the position,
Speaker 6: like the version of a point guard that Jalen Brunson
Speaker 6: is and the version of a point guard that Tyre's
Speaker 6: Halliburton is, or like universe a part I would say,
Speaker 6: like Tyreus Halliburton in and of himself might be a
Speaker 6: referendum on the importance of the point guard position, because
Speaker 6: he is like a true blue old school run the offense,
Speaker 6: like getting myself looks and scoring is like bottom of
Speaker 6: the totem pole of importance type of point guard. Like
Speaker 6: he's like a quarterback out there, like he's quarterbacking their offense.
Speaker 6: He's dictating the pace, he's dictating the style, he's getting
Speaker 6: people involved.
Speaker 5: That is like a dying breed.
Speaker 6: I would say in the NBA, like there aren't many
Speaker 6: point guards like that left, Whereas I would say like
Speaker 6: Jalen Brunson is more of like a new school point
Speaker 6: guard where it's like well by de facto because he's
Speaker 6: the shortest player on the floor, like he kind of
Speaker 6: falls into the position of the one. But his facilitation
Speaker 6: is not why he's there. He's there to score. He's
Speaker 6: a score first player. So I don't really think it's
Speaker 6: almost like in name only, they're the same type of players.
Speaker 6: So I really think it can serve as like this
Speaker 6: is the future of the league. But I will say
Speaker 6: that like Tyre's Halliburton has shown that, like we don't
Speaker 6: need to kill off the old school version of a
Speaker 6: point guard so fast. It just needs to evolve because
Speaker 6: to your point, he can score at a high clip
Speaker 6: if he needs to, he just doesn't choose to do
Speaker 6: that first because that's not his priority on the floor.
Speaker 6: And I think we kind of like threw the baby
Speaker 6: out with the bathwater with the point guard position, and
Speaker 6: we're like, well, we don't need someone to orchestrate the
Speaker 6: offense because we just need one through five like spaced out.
Speaker 6: Everyone needs to be able to score, where it's like
Speaker 6: the more evolved version of that thinking is like everyone
Speaker 6: needs to be able to score, but it's still really
Speaker 6: really valuable to have like a super high level offensive
Speaker 6: you know, creator, facilitator orchestrator on the floor for sure.
Speaker 2: So Claire just really quickly, we were talking beforehand, how
Speaker 2: do you think Sacramento feels about getting.
Speaker 3: Rid of right they feel?
Speaker 6: I mean, it's crazy because now they're talking about, you know,
Speaker 6: moving off of Sibonis, like that's those are the rumblings
Speaker 6: I'm hearing, and that's who they got back in that
Speaker 6: because they had they it's sort of like Sophie's choice.
Speaker 6: They had to like in their estimation, like equally high
Speaker 6: level point guard prototypes of Deer and Fox and Terrys
Speaker 6: Haliburn or guard prototypes, I guess, because I don't think
Speaker 6: Fox is even playing the point guard in San Antonio,
Speaker 6: and they chose Fox. And now not only is dearon
Speaker 6: Fox not on those Kings anymore, but the guy they
Speaker 6: got back for, Tyreus Haliburton, is probably about to not
Speaker 6: be on the Kings anymore, so they didn't choose very well.
Speaker 6: I would say glass half full for the Kings. They've
Speaker 6: taken so much flak for their drafting over the years,
Speaker 6: and like the problem isn't the drafting, I think is
Speaker 6: what history is telling us, Like they can pick them,
Speaker 6: it's just knowing who to keep and how to keep
Speaker 6: them build around them.
Speaker 1: But it does probably make them feel better, that's more.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 6: I just remember, like every NBA draft I've been like
Speaker 6: cognizant of it's like the Kings again, like they messed
Speaker 6: up the draft again or whatever, and it's like, I
Speaker 6: don't they're drafting fine, It's it's definitely more like then.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, we.
Speaker 5: Actually but no, I'm sure.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm so glad that Tyre's Haliburton ended up
Speaker 6: where he did because the Pacers obviously saw something in him,
Speaker 6: and Rick Carlisle saw something in him where they're like
Speaker 6: this guy's style of play and the way he plays basketball,
Speaker 6: like let's just go with that, let's just build around that.
Speaker 6: And and I think, you know him happening Like I've
Speaker 6: heard people like wish casting like like what if he
Speaker 6: had gotten drafted into Golden.
Speaker 5: State or whatever.
Speaker 6: But and he might have fit in nicely to the
Speaker 6: Steve Kurse style of play, you know, of the sort
Speaker 6: of egalitarian like the beautiful game, like whatever. But I'm
Speaker 6: just glad that he basically got handed the keys to
Speaker 6: his own franchise to play like Tyre's Haliburton basketball, because
Speaker 6: I don't think there were that many teams in the
Speaker 6: league that would have done that. And obviously it's paying
Speaker 6: dividends absolutely.
Speaker 1: All right, let's take one more break and when we
Speaker 1: come back, it's time for the rabbit fire around of questioning.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back, and we're back, and it is
Speaker 1: the rapid fire round of questioning, Claire. We're going to
Speaker 1: fire some questions that you you are just going to
Speaker 1: give us your first answer. We're trying to keep this moving.
Speaker 1: It is known far and wide as the fastest segment
Speaker 1: in podcasting, so we've got a reputation to uphold.
Speaker 3: Don't mess us up.
Speaker 1: Don't mess this up for us, please, Brian, could you
Speaker 1: do me a favor? Actually, could you start the clock? Okay? Cool,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, Brian.
Speaker 3: Ops the world.
Speaker 1: All right, do you want to start off, Jabari or
Speaker 1: would you like me to go first?
Speaker 3: We can bounce on these.
Speaker 1: Okay to mine?
Speaker 3: All right? So clear here we go. This player or
Speaker 3: that player?
Speaker 2: Which would you rather see Shay playing back in the
Speaker 2: nineties or Rime in healthy Penny hard way into Day's game.
Speaker 5: Shane the nineties would be fun.
Speaker 6: I feel like he would fit in really nicely in
Speaker 6: his play style and it's just like a more evolved
Speaker 6: version of that game.
Speaker 5: So I'd like to see.
Speaker 1: It Halliburton on those nineties Pacers teams or Prime Reggie
Speaker 1: joining this current squad. And keep in mind, you do
Speaker 1: if he's on the squad, he can't be doing the game.
Speaker 6: Essentially, my answer, I would pick I would pick Reggie.
Speaker 6: It's the same reason I was excited when Jeff and
Speaker 6: Gundy got a coaching job. I was like, yeah, like,
Speaker 6: keep these guys busy. It's like handing a toddler, like
Speaker 6: a Nintendo switch or whatever.
Speaker 5: You're just like just go sit over there.
Speaker 1: I feel like this has to be hard for Pacers
Speaker 1: because it's like you're you're like watching your team's finally
Speaker 1: making it, and it's just hard for people to root
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 3: Keep it a going.
Speaker 1: Jalen Jalen Bunch Jalen Brunson Berner.
Speaker 2: The Bunsen Burner exactly, Jalen Brunson transported back to join
Speaker 2: peak Ewing in ninety four, or Prime past jumping into
Speaker 2: DeLorean and being available for this current series.
Speaker 6: Oh, Prime, Pat would be pretty freaking handy right now.
Speaker 6: For the New York next, I would have sure, I'm
Speaker 6: going to go.
Speaker 1: With that one two minutes to I bet tips just
Speaker 1: doesn't play. Yeah, it just doesn't play.
Speaker 5: You'd be older.
Speaker 1: Forty minutes a game, all right, and finally Aunt alongside
Speaker 1: KG for that two thousand and four run, or KG
Speaker 1: lining up beside Colbert for the current team, or maybe
Speaker 1: in place of Cobert.
Speaker 6: I mean in place of Gobert, like ten times out
Speaker 6: of time, what give me that one? Give me give
Speaker 6: me the Kevin Garnette instead of Rudio, a bear option,
Speaker 6: like on any team at anytime.
Speaker 5: Like that's great, Yeah.
Speaker 3: That is fair. Give us your prediction on these following
Speaker 3: players and where they are.
Speaker 5: Next, be honest, San Antonio, wow.
Speaker 4: Zion Williamson, The New Orleans Pelicans, John maritt Man, I
Speaker 4: think I think he says it grizzly for now.
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant, who did make these ryn kd with the rockets.
Speaker 1: That would be so fun.
Speaker 6: It would be so fun. He's exactly what they need.
Speaker 6: It's like it's a beautiful fit.
Speaker 3: And Lebron James.
Speaker 5: Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's your face, Jabbari, it happens. It happens. Sorry,
Speaker 1: the best player of all time stays on your team
Speaker 1: sometimes it happened, all right. And finally, we want to
Speaker 1: tap into your musical knowledge and expertise with the Kendrick
Speaker 1: and this is a co headlining tour currently taking place.
Speaker 1: We want to hear your choice for a tour that
Speaker 1: blends genres and like has two headliners just tray on
Speaker 1: and off. Who are you going with?
Speaker 6: Well, the thing about this is in Kendrick tours, they
Speaker 6: have a lot of songs together.
Speaker 1: So that's it?
Speaker 6: Does that is that a prerequisite? Like do they have
Speaker 6: to have shared songs?
Speaker 3: They could?
Speaker 1: They could record songs for this tour together based on
Speaker 1: your direction. We have a ton of power in this scenario.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 6: Well, Beach House is like my favorite band of all time,
Speaker 6: so I want that to be one of the artists.
Speaker 6: I mean, it feels like a cop out to use Kendrick,
Speaker 6: but like Beach House and Kendrick be like on Fire Tour.
Speaker 6: I would love that so much, and they would be
Speaker 6: really cool collab. I think like they could make some
Speaker 6: really cool songs together. And I mean Kendrick has sampled
Speaker 6: them before, he sampled them on Money Trees, So I do.
Speaker 5: A good start.
Speaker 3: I give you so much bready.
Speaker 1: I didn't realice that was then.
Speaker 3: I can tell you right now.
Speaker 2: I absolutely thought, okay, so tiny this, and I.
Speaker 6: Mean I would love that, but like, yeah, I feel
Speaker 6: like it's like the what are they isn't it? With
Speaker 6: awards voting, It's like you have to like leave yourself.
Speaker 1: Recute yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1: Nah on that, not on this sved, not on this
Speaker 1: show where crooked as.
Speaker 5: Hell, myself, me and jay z Onto worlds do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fans have been asking.
Speaker 3: That's the answer.
Speaker 1: That is the answer.
Speaker 3: It is correct.
Speaker 1: Thank you Jobori for leading her to the right answer.
Speaker 1: That just checking our scorecard and yes, every single one
Speaker 1: of those was the correct answer. Congratulations returning champion Claire Dulon.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. Where can people
Speaker 1: find you? Follow you, hear you, listen to you all
Speaker 1: that good stuff?
Speaker 6: Well, basketball wise, you can find my stuff at the
Speaker 6: guardiantheguardian dot com and also I tweet about basketball and
Speaker 6: like post about across all social media at Claire Mpls
Speaker 6: music wise, you can find me under tiny Deaths wherever
Speaker 6: you stream music.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yoh, you can give us a follow on Twitter.
Speaker 1: I'm at Jack Underscore. O'Brian Miles is at Miles of Gray.
Speaker 1: I'm at Jack ob one on Blue Sky and Miles
Speaker 1: as also at Miles of Gray. He has good social
Speaker 1: media continuity. I have the opposite, Jabari, where can people
Speaker 1: find you?
Speaker 3: Easy A? Davis on both?
Speaker 1: All right, and that's going to do it. Another one
Speaker 1: in the books, swish we did it. We did it
Speaker 1: back next week, Kobe Lebron knuckle come on,