Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody. It is Friday, October thirty first, yes,
Speaker 1: Halloween twenty twenty five. And well, first it was Bill Owens,
Speaker 1: the executive producer of sixty Minutes. Then it was Wendy McMahon,
Speaker 1: the president of CBS News. Then it was Nora O'Donnell.
Speaker 1: Then it was Stephen Colbert, then it was John Dickerson.
Speaker 1: And now we're getting word that it is Gail King
Speaker 1: who could be leaving CBS. And with that, welcome everybody
Speaker 1: to this episode of Amy and TJ Rohobs. This is,
Speaker 1: I guess, a jolting headline for the industry. We shouldn't
Speaker 1: be surprised to see this at all, though, right.
Speaker 2: Well, there were predictions that there were going to be
Speaker 2: major changes in shifts and potentially what and who we
Speaker 2: see basically headlining CBS News, And if this is true,
Speaker 2: this would be the biggest jolt of them all, for sure.
Speaker 1: You say, if this is true, and we're speaking on
Speaker 1: it today, because it does come from a reputable outlet, Variety,
Speaker 1: citing at least four sources with knowledge of the situation,
Speaker 1: say that the anchor, the head anchor, the star, the celebrity,
Speaker 1: and the one who's been there longest at CBS News
Speaker 1: on their morning show. Gail King would be leaving, is
Speaker 1: expected to leave that show at least robes starting next
Speaker 1: year when her contract is up.
Speaker 2: Yes, the headline specifically reads this, Gail King expected to
Speaker 2: depart as CBS Morning anchor amid CBS News overhaul and
Speaker 2: then says exclusive.
Speaker 3: And it says she could stay with CBS.
Speaker 2: That's part of their story or their reporting that she
Speaker 2: would just be shifting roles in May when her contract
Speaker 2: is up. But they say that CBS would like her
Speaker 2: to stay with the company, but just perhaps not in
Speaker 2: that role. It's unclear if she would be initiating this change,
Speaker 2: if they are initiating this change we've seen in the
Speaker 2: past or at least recently the folks who have left.
Speaker 2: John Dickerson didn't say why, but the other folks have
Speaker 2: left has specifically referenced the change in editorial direction.
Speaker 1: Yes, and you're talking specifically, Wendy McMahon, you're talking specifically
Speaker 1: Bill Owens sixty minutes. Again, we talked about that when
Speaker 1: he stepped out. That's a job, that is the ultimate job.
Speaker 1: You do not leave something is going on of the
Speaker 1: utmost seriousness. If you voluntarily step out of that job.
Speaker 1: So of course folks are familiar with the mergers that
Speaker 1: have been going on Skydan Spy's Paramount. They plays Barry
Speaker 1: Weiss someone. Is it fair to say she's an entrepreneur
Speaker 1: when it comes to journalism online? But is she certainly
Speaker 1: a conservative? She's been.
Speaker 2: Yes, she was a conservative voice and a conservative of
Speaker 2: republican op ed columnist for the New York Times at
Speaker 2: one point. Even so, she has not been shy about
Speaker 2: sharing her political leanings.
Speaker 1: Okay, so she is the one now in charge to
Speaker 1: be in charge of CBS News, and yes, they're going
Speaker 1: through some changes. They just announced a round of layoffs
Speaker 1: over at Paramounts, some of them touching CBS News. They
Speaker 1: expect more, but changes. This is what happens. But when
Speaker 1: you start seeing robes, it concerns people. But we've now
Speaker 1: been seeing it for a couple of years. If you
Speaker 1: go back to hod of cod by Lester Holt, who
Speaker 1: have been leaving jobs, these are big, big jobs and
Speaker 1: they're voluntarily stepping away. At least that's what we're being
Speaker 1: told publicly.
Speaker 2: The idea is that the ratings just aren't what they were,
Speaker 2: and so the money isn't what it was meaning the profits.
Speaker 3: And so these folks.
Speaker 2: These big names, these major broadcast news anchors, have major salaries,
Speaker 2: and so the reporting has been that these folks have
Speaker 2: been offered or were offered a version of staying at
Speaker 2: the networks just for a lot less money. And so
Speaker 2: a lot of these big names have chosen to leave
Speaker 2: or massively scale back their duties to justify this lowered salary.
Speaker 3: More power makes sense.
Speaker 1: And some of them have stuck around in different capacities.
Speaker 1: And that's fine, dude, am I'm not overstating, right, She's
Speaker 1: the biggest star of CBS News.
Speaker 2: She might be one of the only stars that people
Speaker 2: could still name. Yes, there's Jane Pauly and Leslie Stall.
Speaker 2: I think there are some other names that you know of,
Speaker 2: like very I mean we're talking women though in their
Speaker 2: what eighties at this point.
Speaker 3: They have been big names for a long long time.
Speaker 3: But in terms of like.
Speaker 2: Modern current biggest talent at CBS News, I would say
Speaker 2: it's absolutely guiltcare right, yes.
Speaker 1: And she has been in that role for I didn't
Speaker 1: realize it was that long. Was a twelve twelve year
Speaker 1: twelve that is a that is not a small feat
Speaker 1: to be able to do that these.
Speaker 2: Days, especially when you're the third ranked morning show and
Speaker 2: everyone around you has been moved and changed and has
Speaker 2: left to try and change or pick up or do
Speaker 2: something to the rating. So the fact that she's survived
Speaker 2: many different iterations of including a name change for the
Speaker 2: morning show, the fact that we actually didn't know what
Speaker 2: the show is called anymore.
Speaker 3: We were a little confused.
Speaker 1: It is right now CBS Mornings, but it was CBS
Speaker 1: this Morning when she started, and it wasn't twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: That was Charlie Rose, Nora O'Donnell, and Gail King in
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. Of course, has gone through several iterations and
Speaker 1: several anchors since twenty twelve, and she has been the
Speaker 1: constant look. She's brought all a lot. She is the face
Speaker 1: of that network in almost every way. She is a celebrity.
Speaker 1: She's brought Oprah on board over there. We all remember
Speaker 1: with that R. Kelly interview and how she handled that
Speaker 1: absolutely brilliantly. That raised her profile even more. She's kind
Speaker 1: of it. But we say all that robes they have
Speaker 1: barely no excuse me, they have never gotten out a
Speaker 1: third place.
Speaker 2: No, not in modern history. I don't remember a time
Speaker 2: since we were in the network morning show game. They
Speaker 2: were always not just a third, but folks would often
Speaker 2: write distant third.
Speaker 3: It wasn't even a competitive third.
Speaker 1: So but still get away from the ratings for a second.
Speaker 1: There's a matter of value that she's adding to CBS
Speaker 1: that I can't imagine them voluntarily giving up.
Speaker 2: We've talked about this look. When it comes to morning
Speaker 2: show ratings wars. A lot of times it's about the bookings.
Speaker 2: Who you can get to sit down with a journalist
Speaker 2: on your team, and when you have star power, when
Speaker 2: you're Oprah's best friend, when you've got the name and
Speaker 2: face recognition that Gail King has, that makes a big
Speaker 2: difference in terms of getting big interviews and beg gets.
Speaker 2: They're always competitive among the three morning shows. You want
Speaker 2: your star talent out there recruiting for you.
Speaker 1: And she's a draw. I mean she If you're if
Speaker 1: you're having a conversation with somebody, Okay, you want to
Speaker 1: go to the number one, the number two, or the
Speaker 1: number three. Most people say, wow, I don't want to
Speaker 1: go to the number three. Oh wait, Gail is over there.
Speaker 1: That is really a part of the game, and she
Speaker 1: is a part of a draw in that way that
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with a viewer deciding I want
Speaker 1: to watch Gail Kane this morning. What's after that. I'm
Speaker 1: sure they do their research and they're looking for whatever,
Speaker 1: but I don't know what direction they're going to go,
Speaker 1: but she just seems to be a household name in
Speaker 1: a way. This made me concerned when I saw this
Speaker 1: robes about what's going to happen to morning shows because
Speaker 1: we never thought that in late night show would get canceled,
Speaker 1: and CBS has already done that with Colbert, not canceled him,
Speaker 1: canceled the show exactly right, So it's hard to fathom
Speaker 1: broadcast morning shows going on. It.
Speaker 3: Actually it makes me feel it's sad.
Speaker 1: I hate that.
Speaker 3: It's sad because you see the.
Speaker 2: End of an era and something that not only was
Speaker 2: important in terms of bringing information to people watching in
Speaker 2: the mornings as they were getting their routine down, they're
Speaker 2: listening to the news, and of course that's important, but
Speaker 2: just as a part of our culture and a part
Speaker 2: of life, you know, I remember growing up all of us,
Speaker 2: do I think probably listening having a morning show on
Speaker 2: in the background. It was just a constant and to
Speaker 2: think of it, going away, And certainly it's obviously become
Speaker 2: less significant and less relevant. We know that, but to
Speaker 2: see it potentially even become just a shell of what
Speaker 2: it was is sad.
Speaker 3: And specifically when you talk about CBS.
Speaker 2: Yes, we just got word John Dickerson, the co anchor
Speaker 2: of the evening news program, is stepping down.
Speaker 1: Two days or three days ago.
Speaker 3: Well I've lost count now.
Speaker 2: But no word about whether or not his co anchor,
Speaker 2: Maurice Dubois is sticking around. But certainly, Barry Wise, this
Speaker 2: has been anticipated. She actually and this has been acknowledged,
Speaker 2: has even floated names around about who she'd like to
Speaker 2: bring into CBS News. She wants a diversity of opinion
Speaker 2: and a diversity of culture. And I'm not talking about black, brown, white,
Speaker 2: We're talking about political diversity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they see it for so long, some do
Speaker 1: as it's been one voice and one side there say okay, fine,
Speaker 1: thank yourself out. There's just a matter of Look, it's
Speaker 1: important to there are plenty of folks listening morning shows,
Speaker 1: you all talking about it so fondly. It has never
Speaker 1: been a part of my life, is not a part
Speaker 1: of my day. There are people who have no clue
Speaker 1: about broadcast morning shows. There folks probably under the age
Speaker 1: of you take a poll walking down the street under
Speaker 1: twenty one name a couple of morning show anchors might
Speaker 1: take them a minute.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I bet you. They wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 2: They might even have a hard time coming up with
Speaker 2: the name of the program at this point when you're
Speaker 2: talking about that young of an audience, because they simply
Speaker 2: are not watching morning news show, and the ratings will
Speaker 2: show that when you look at the demos, it's actually astounding, and.
Speaker 1: So to that point, it's tough to justify this stuff.
Speaker 1: So if you go back, Rose, I'm trying to get
Speaker 1: my years right, So I'm gonna go twenty years twenty
Speaker 1: years ago, what is this, twenty.
Speaker 3: Twenty five, So twenty oh five, two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: That season the Today Show was number one, and they
Speaker 1: were averaging that season about six to six and a
Speaker 1: half million viewers. So you'll hear what I'm saying. The
Speaker 1: number one morning show twenty years ago was averaging six
Speaker 1: six and a half million viewers. The Today Show is
Speaker 1: now in number two plays and their numbers now compared
Speaker 1: to six million they used to get twenty years ago,
Speaker 1: they getting about two and a half million now right,
Speaker 1: that was their average viewership the last season, and they
Speaker 1: finished in number two.
Speaker 3: Those were the days.
Speaker 2: I was at the Today Show back then MSNBC Weekend, Today,
Speaker 2: Today's Show, and talk about the money flowing. These salaries
Speaker 2: of the anchors were leaked out. You're talking Matt Lauer
Speaker 2: was making twenty million dollars a year. We were flying
Speaker 2: all over the world. No budget was too big, and really,
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone realized at the time that was
Speaker 2: the very end of the era, and things started to
Speaker 2: change very dramatically after that.
Speaker 1: Well, we were doing look not gonna it's not gonna
Speaker 1: be an indictment of the industry. We're not gonna do
Speaker 1: that class today. But the reality of the situation is
Speaker 1: that you cannot sustain these salaries if you're not sustaining
Speaker 1: these numbers. So we talk about twenty years ago where
Speaker 1: the numbers were even then robes, when the Today Show
Speaker 1: is getting six and six and a half CBS mornings,
Speaker 1: it was getting about three, like half the audience back then.
Speaker 1: Now one point nine to four million viewers is the average.
Speaker 1: So you cannot justify being in third and paying I
Speaker 1: guess whatever salary it might be it just the numbers
Speaker 1: don't work out.
Speaker 2: And when you look at the demo, which is what
Speaker 2: the advertisers are really looking at in terms of who
Speaker 2: they're trying to advertise for, and that's what is that
Speaker 2: twenty is twenty five to fifty.
Speaker 1: Four, and then there's an eighteen to forty nine.
Speaker 3: Right, twenty five to fifty four.
Speaker 2: You've got money, you've got experience, and they're trying to Obviously,
Speaker 2: the younger demos even may be more important in moments
Speaker 2: because you're trying to get viewers to establish a pattern
Speaker 2: and to come back to you so that advertisers can
Speaker 2: have someone to advertise to for many, many years. But yeah,
Speaker 2: they only have three hundred. They have less than three
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand folks watching who are in that
Speaker 2: coveted demo. That's a drop in the bucket. I mean,
Speaker 2: what is that one percent of our population? Wow?
Speaker 1: Three forty six. It's just to see it. It's been
Speaker 1: going this way and people have been warning about it,
Speaker 1: and we used to hear it all the time in
Speaker 1: the hallways. Your industry is going away and that we say, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and we did we kept I say we as a
Speaker 1: part of this industry kept holding on, and some of
Speaker 1: that was holding on to hope, not necessarily changing any strategy.
Speaker 1: You look at every morning show and it looks pretty
Speaker 1: much the way it did twenty years ago. A couple
Speaker 1: of anchers sitting behind the desk. There's some movements, some
Speaker 1: new graphics, toss the weather.
Speaker 3: It looks the same. It does.
Speaker 1: It really does. So hasn't changed to evolve to what
Speaker 1: maybe people want in their intention spans And.
Speaker 2: This is where we are, yeap, that is where we are,
Speaker 2: and it's reported no one ever knows for sure, but
Speaker 2: the last report Gail King just had signed a one
Speaker 2: year edition last May, and she signed for ten million dollars.
Speaker 3: That's what That's what the report is. That's how much
Speaker 3: she makes.
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's tough to justify when you have ratings
Speaker 2: like we just talked about.
Speaker 1: And again she does, I think, a fantastic job. There
Speaker 1: was a just a there is a way that she
Speaker 1: goes about that I appreciate, right. I think people call
Speaker 1: her Auntie a lot of times. She does. She comes
Speaker 1: off sometimes, especially early on, she wasn't that.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: She didn't look like she was media trained at a
Speaker 1: journalism department somewhere. She was just being herself, and there
Speaker 1: was something warm about the way she handled r Kelly
Speaker 1: is a that's the best example, Robert Robert, when he's
Speaker 1: getting up flailing almost dangerously close to her. Robert, that is,
Speaker 1: I guess an appeal she has that I absolutely love.
Speaker 1: I hope you stays. I hope she sticks around forever.
Speaker 2: There aren't many journalists like her. And you mentioned her warmth,
Speaker 2: her authenticity. She's real and she's not putting on airs,
Speaker 2: and I do think that that is something that you
Speaker 2: don't often see. People are too polished, they're too perfect,
Speaker 2: they're too concerned about what other people think of them.
Speaker 3: She doesn't have any of those traits. She really does have.
Speaker 3: She's somebody who you feel like you can trust.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate that, even her. Again, this is another big,
Speaker 1: high profile moment they went does she went to space.
Speaker 1: That's how big of a star she is oway there.
Speaker 1: That's what she brings to that place. And she runs
Speaker 1: in circles with these folks, a lot of them. She
Speaker 1: has access to them outside of being with CBS. She
Speaker 1: leaves CBS. She's got these friends already. But it was
Speaker 1: that space trip you talk about her authenticity. You remember
Speaker 1: when she rang that she.
Speaker 2: Was so scared please, She wasn't even trying to tell
Speaker 2: like she was brave in that moment, she was scared
Speaker 2: to death. That it was the phase I would have had, yes,
Speaker 2: And it was so relatable because yes, I think anybody
Speaker 2: who's actually being honest probably would look and feel the
Speaker 2: same way.
Speaker 1: That was one of her best TV moments in my opinion,
Speaker 1: and she was authentic. But all of this being talked
Speaker 1: about the reporting from Variety, The conversation is going on
Speaker 1: everywhere right now. But what is CBS News saying about it? Yes,
Speaker 1: they had to respond. Stay here, we'll tell you what
Speaker 1: their statement was.
Speaker 2: Continuing our conversation now about this very detailed and fairly
Speaker 2: significant headline that we got from the credible news gathering
Speaker 2: agency of Variety magazine. And they are reporting that Gail
Speaker 2: King is expected to leave her position as the morning
Speaker 2: show anchor at CBS News. And they say amid a
Speaker 2: CBS News overhaul.
Speaker 1: So the.
Speaker 2: I guess they're suggesting that it might not be her choice,
Speaker 2: it might be CBS's choice.
Speaker 3: No one really knows, but they say.
Speaker 2: That they have four sources who have knowledge of this conversation,
Speaker 2: and obviously their reporting was significant enough for CBS to
Speaker 2: release a statement.
Speaker 1: And this is where it for me, at least, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is real. Pay attention to these, to the wording.
Speaker 1: Governments are really good at it. Politicians are really good
Speaker 1: at it. Put out statements that seem to be denying something,
Speaker 1: but certain things get left out. So this is how
Speaker 1: CBS News responded to Variety quote, there have been no
Speaker 1: discussions with Gail about her contract that runs through May
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. She's a truly valued part of CBS
Speaker 1: and we look forward to engaging with her about the future.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 2: They did not deny that she would be leaving CBS
Speaker 2: Morning Show whatever it's called, CBS This Morning, This Morning
Speaker 2: Morning Stop, Oh my gosh, CBS Mornings. Okay, So they
Speaker 2: did not deny that, and they just said they haven't
Speaker 2: had a discussion with Gail. They could have been talking
Speaker 2: to her agents, her representatives, and so that would still
Speaker 2: be true if they were having conversations with her people.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very literal, right in all we do
Speaker 1: in our relationship, everything we talk about it.
Speaker 3: Is to an annoyingly specific yes.
Speaker 1: I take you at your word. And I am only interpreting,
Speaker 1: not looking for a meaning. I am taking you for
Speaker 1: what you say.
Speaker 3: What I meant to say.
Speaker 1: We don't want to hear it.
Speaker 3: You know what I really meant was.
Speaker 1: I'm just telling you what CBS said. And they say
Speaker 1: there have been no discussions with about her contract. There
Speaker 1: are no discussions with her about her contract that runs
Speaker 1: through May twenty twenty six. Why did they need to
Speaker 1: include the fact that the contract is up in May
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty six. Now, Flip Coin, who knows? We
Speaker 1: look forward to engaging with her about her.
Speaker 3: Future, which could be a number of positions.
Speaker 1: But it means it's uncertain.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 1: You come out and say we love this woman, she
Speaker 1: is everything to us, and we hope she never leaves
Speaker 1: that chair. You don't even show a sign of support
Speaker 1: for her in what she's currently doing.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I don't know what discussions were had before this statement
Speaker 1: went out, but I don't like that. I know what
Speaker 1: it feels like to not be supported by the place
Speaker 1: where you're working. You gotta say, yes, we know she's
Speaker 1: a value part of CVS. We watch, we get e gate,
Speaker 1: we look forward to engaging with her. This almost sounds
Speaker 1: like us versus her like, we're gonna come to battle
Speaker 1: and figure out I don't like that much. I get it,
Speaker 1: and we get the business ropes. We get that what
Speaker 1: they put out and why they had to put this out, well,
Speaker 1: that sucks. It sucks.
Speaker 2: It does, and no word from Gail King herself. And
Speaker 2: we actually watched Friday morning's broadcast just to see if
Speaker 2: she would acknowledge it or say anything. We highly doubted
Speaker 2: that she would, but just in case she did not.
Speaker 2: But the big question is would she want to stay
Speaker 2: after being taken off the show?
Speaker 3: Could she?
Speaker 2: I don't even want to say say face because she
Speaker 2: may not want to stay on the show. It may
Speaker 2: be her choice, and this statement from CBS News might
Speaker 2: have been a reaction to them knowing she doesn't want
Speaker 2: to stay on the show. We don't know what's going
Speaker 2: on behind the scenes, and we don't know where her
Speaker 2: head is. But there have been situations when it has
Speaker 2: been that person's choice, whether it was a financial decision
Speaker 2: or what. But lester Holt decided to stay and continued
Speaker 2: to do some date lines just to keep his you know,
Speaker 2: his toe in the water, his foot in the game,
Speaker 2: and that can be nice. And we've seen other folks
Speaker 2: like Diane Soyer do the same thing when she left
Speaker 2: World News tonight, and so that's not unheard of at all.
Speaker 1: But it also might be her choice. And that's a
Speaker 1: grind getting up every single day at that time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a lot on her. Maybe she's I mean, she's
Speaker 1: seventy now. Maybe she wants to kick back and take
Speaker 1: it easy for a little bit. Maybe she can get
Speaker 1: her own show, some kind of talk situation. There's all
Speaker 1: kind of streaming options. She yeah, But at the same time, bro,
Speaker 1: given all the turmoil, she might say, you know, let
Speaker 1: me go ahead and get on out of here. Well,
Speaker 1: just let it go and go live my life.
Speaker 2: And seeing other prominent journalists take a truly what seems
Speaker 2: to be a moral stand, or at least a stand
Speaker 2: of integrity or ethics, journalism ethics, she may feel like
Speaker 2: she's in really good company to do so, and she'll
Speaker 2: be on the right side of history for heading out.
Speaker 1: He look, CBS, they have to they have to have
Speaker 1: to handle this well because Gail generally speaks, is beloved, right,
Speaker 1: She's not necessarily a figure, not until I think, what
Speaker 1: was it the space trip that she became polarizing to
Speaker 1: a certain degree, and that might have had a lot
Speaker 1: to do with one of her mates that was on
Speaker 1: the capsule with her. But still she has, for the
Speaker 1: most part, enjoyed warmth from the audience. Yes, if CBS
Speaker 1: is seen in any way shape of on pushing her
Speaker 1: out the door, that might struggle. They might struggle to
Speaker 1: hold on to some of the audience they have right now.
Speaker 2: I wonder how much they care about that. And you
Speaker 2: just said the most important part hold on to the
Speaker 2: audience they have right now.
Speaker 3: They want to bring in a whole different audience.
Speaker 2: They want to bring in a whole other segment of
Speaker 2: America to watch and trust mainstream news in a way
Speaker 2: that many believe those folks have been disenfranchised it franchised from.
Speaker 1: And a big step in getting those people to watch
Speaker 1: you is probably saying, hey, we just got rid of
Speaker 1: Oprah's best friend. That would happidly work in some circles,
Speaker 1: would it not. Yes, well, yes, that might be part
Speaker 1: of the strategy as well.
Speaker 2: We will have to wait and see what happens, if
Speaker 2: Gail says anything, if CBS says anything further, but certainly, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is how many months away.
Speaker 3: Are we from that five, six seven, So.
Speaker 2: Certainly word will have to come soon enough. But things
Speaker 2: are for sure changing.
Speaker 1: It'll be a big May over there, the morning and
Speaker 1: the evening, right, Colbert is up in May.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, man, lots of changes, all right.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much everyone for listening to us on
Speaker 2: this Saturday.
Speaker 3: I may be Robuck alongside TJ.
Speaker 2: Holmes.
Speaker 3: We hope you all have a wonderful week on this Saturday.
Speaker 1: Saturday.
Speaker 3: Yeah it's a Friday. Yeah wow, man, I'm losing it.
Speaker 1: I want to get to the weekend too, baby, but
Speaker 1: slowly down, all right. We'll talk to Gus soon.