1
00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,040
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

2
00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

3
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

4
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,520
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news on the Bloomberg Markets Podcast,

5
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,439
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

6
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,759
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. So Matt again, you

7
00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,360
Speaker 1: were still on Sombaticway yesterday. Um, it was a I

8
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,360
Speaker 1: think a seminal day in the world of crypto. It

9
00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,159
Speaker 1: was insane. Don't you bring us in and let me

10
00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: just tell you down here? Okay, September two eight, I'm

11
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:40,839
Speaker 1: on a flight from Cologne to New York via Shannon.

12
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 1: We had to sort landing. It's no, it's not part

13
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:45,960
Speaker 1: of the story, but it just so. We land at

14
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,479
Speaker 1: JFK and I turned on my BlackBerry right and I

15
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 1: see the Leading Brothers news. Everybody on the plane they're like,

16
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 1: oh my God, like everyone no one knew. You know,

17
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 1: the same thing happened to me yesterday. I'm coming back

18
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,840
Speaker 1: from Indonesia via Tokyo, and I turned on my phone

19
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,680
Speaker 1: and I see the ft X news and I'm just

20
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 1: like chills, going down my spine because this is such

21
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,399
Speaker 1: a big deal. Sam Bankman Freed, I think of him

22
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 1: as like the richest, smartest guy in crypto and trustworthy.

23
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,120
Speaker 1: He's pushing for regulation, he you know, champions transparency and

24
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden anyway, let's bring in uh. Well,

25
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 1: we have Katie Greifeld here in the studio, thrilled to

26
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: see her. We have Joanna awesonger Um out in. She's

27
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,839
Speaker 1: probably closer to where I was yesterday out in Singapore,

28
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,000
Speaker 1: and I read her work all the time to get

29
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 1: to get the latest on crypto, so I'm glad to

30
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 1: have her. And then Nick Carter from cass Island Ventures

31
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,040
Speaker 1: voice that you know, we all listen to this guy's

32
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,160
Speaker 1: podcast every week on the Brink Baby Brink Nation UM

33
00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,480
Speaker 1: to learn what we can as well about the industry.

34
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 1: So I think a pretty excellent panel. Nick. Let me

35
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: start with you, UM, were you as shocked I know

36
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 1: that this played out over you know, Friday, uh with

37
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,080
Speaker 1: concerns about liquidity and then on the weekend with c

38
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,680
Speaker 1: Z just dumping f t T, which is the ft

39
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 1: X native token. Um. But man, if anyone had prepared

40
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 1: for the crypto winter, I thought it was Sam Bankman freed. Yeah,

41
00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 1: I was Flabbergas said, I think even the most seasoned

42
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,639
Speaker 1: industry participants were completely taken aback by the f t

43
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,520
Speaker 1: X was considered extremely credible. A lot of my friends

44
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,840
Speaker 1: had capital on that exchange, including people that had dodged

45
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,399
Speaker 1: all the previous exchange hacks and solvencies, wrong bulls, etcetera,

46
00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 1: were stung by this. One. Is really one of the

47
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 1: most shocking exchange collapses in the history of the industry,

48
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,399
Speaker 1: one of the worst days in the history of the industry.

49
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,360
Speaker 1: Joanna want to bring you in here. I mean, for

50
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,800
Speaker 1: the skeptics of all things crypto, I just think of

51
00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,040
Speaker 1: a Jamie Diamond type. Does this give them more ammunition

52
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,880
Speaker 1: to say this isn't really an asset class, This is

53
00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 1: just a speculative kind of side to the market. At

54
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,360
Speaker 1: the very least, it gives people like regulators who say

55
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,320
Speaker 1: we need more guardrails in the crypto industry a lot

56
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 1: of ammunition because it does show that somebody can be

57
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 1: flying high one day. I mean, I think Bloomberg wealth

58
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,960
Speaker 1: did this. He lost of his fortune in one day.

59
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 1: I mean, how much money is that in terms billions?

60
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 1: I think sixteen billion dollars he lost in one day.

61
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just nuts. And I say I had

62
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 1: a pretty good tweet. If you won the powerball, on paper,

63
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 1: you're worth more than Sam BigMan freed, which was two billions,

64
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:54,040
Speaker 1: but you know, after taxes maybe and also if well,

65
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 1: at one point I think he was worth like forty

66
00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 1: billion all in. And I hope you know, if you're

67
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,640
Speaker 1: worth forty billion, hopefully you take a billion and bury

68
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 1: it somewhere, right, Yeah, you get some liquidity somewhere. Hey, Nick,

69
00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,120
Speaker 1: so where do you think? I mean, you've been in

70
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,680
Speaker 1: this space since the beginning. You're one of the trusted

71
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 1: voices there. What are you and your colleagues in the

72
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:23,279
Speaker 1: space saying today? We're um bracing ourselves for the for

73
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 1: the real fallout today. So yesterday sort of events came

74
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: to a head, but today now we expect to see

75
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 1: the knock on effects. We look to see the lenders

76
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: which are exposed to Alimato, which is a lot of them.

77
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,560
Speaker 1: We look for that next light down. Uh, yesterday was

78
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 1: kind of the red wedding, but today is we're taking

79
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 1: out the bodies. We also, I mean there's a letter

80
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,240
Speaker 1: of intent for finance to buy f t X, but

81
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: it's non binding, right, and you said your friends had

82
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,280
Speaker 1: capital on the ft X platform. I'm assuming they've taken

83
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,120
Speaker 1: it off. No, I mean, you know, withdrawals were suspended.

84
00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,920
Speaker 1: We don't currently, we don't believe that f t X

85
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,279
Speaker 1: can make depositors whole. It appears now that there was

86
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,680
Speaker 1: some funny business going on with Alameda potentially gambling with

87
00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 1: deposits on the platform. That's kind of my best explanation

88
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,840
Speaker 1: for what went on. I believe there's a whole and um,

89
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 1: you know, depositors, whether retail or institutional, will not be

90
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,839
Speaker 1: made whole at this point. Nick, First of all, let

91
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,040
Speaker 1: me say there's no one I'd rather be talking with

92
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,040
Speaker 1: right now. You mentioned this was like the red wedding.

93
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,279
Speaker 1: Now we're going to see the bodies get taken out.

94
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,560
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what that fallout looks like. Obviously, some

95
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,960
Speaker 1: big headlines today from novograts is Galaxy saying that you

96
00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,000
Speaker 1: know they had exposure to ft X. They have somewhere

97
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,560
Speaker 1: close to fifty million dollars of withdrawals being processed. Salana

98
00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:49,240
Speaker 1: obviously has really taken a brunt of selling here. When

99
00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:53,039
Speaker 1: you think about how SPF backed Salana But where else

100
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 1: should we look for the contagion for the fallout from here?

101
00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 1: Look at the lenders that I mean, alimated was the

102
00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 1: biggest bar or there's lenders left still after three hours,

103
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,520
Speaker 1: not for long, not for long. Unfortunately, this is pains

104
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,800
Speaker 1: me to say this is the death noel for Block five. Believe, Um,

105
00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if Genesis so apparently they

106
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 1: didn't have residual exposure here, but there's actual defied lenders

107
00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,440
Speaker 1: to the head exposure. Yeah, this will be the sort

108
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: of like final blow that basically kills off the crypto

109
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,600
Speaker 1: lending space for now. Joanna, is this going to be

110
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:33,760
Speaker 1: a period where now regulators will take maybe a more

111
00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: intense review of the kind of they were supposed to

112
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,360
Speaker 1: be doing that already? Sam bankman Free was a champion

113
00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,200
Speaker 1: of that, right. I mean, the question is are we

114
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 1: going to get this is like climate right, there's so

115
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 1: much talk and no follow through. Is anybody gonna demand

116
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:57,839
Speaker 1: transparency from these big multibillion dollar businesses? Well, the interesting

117
00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,880
Speaker 1: thing is they are kind of trying to do it

118
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 1: themselves to an extent. Finance has talked about actually putting

119
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 1: out some numbers publicly, and some other exchanges are now

120
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 1: saying that they'll follow that standard, So the industry may

121
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,640
Speaker 1: start to do some of that itself, but it is

122
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,000
Speaker 1: hard to do the regulation. This is such a fast

123
00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,720
Speaker 1: moving industry that to try to get ahead of it,

124
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 1: to try to work things out about how something should

125
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,760
Speaker 1: be regulated is pretty tricky. But it is also true

126
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 1: that there aren't a whole lot of jurisdictions at this

127
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 1: point that you can point to and say, you know,

128
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 1: they really have a solid balance where they're you know,

129
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,520
Speaker 1: they're kind of helping the industry thrive, but also really

130
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, regulating solidly. So you know a lot of

131
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 1: people in regulations still trying to work this out. Nick,

132
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,680
Speaker 1: let's put this more firmly into your world and talk

133
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,360
Speaker 1: about the crypto venture space. Uh, it feels like just

134
00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,400
Speaker 1: if you look at crypto Twitter, everyone is so shell

135
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,480
Speaker 1: shocked about this moment that that hasn't really been discussed.

136
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,560
Speaker 1: But what's your best guess on what happens to crypto venture?

137
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,480
Speaker 1: I mean, how how do you even go about finding

138
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,720
Speaker 1: deals in this sort of environment. It'll be an enormous

139
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 1: recording for all of the funds that were effectively copy

140
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,120
Speaker 1: trading Sam bankmun Freed which was a lot of the

141
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: successful funds in the last two years. Those those were

142
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,840
Speaker 1: the best trades f t T, f t X, Slona, Sarah,

143
00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:37,160
Speaker 1: everything under Sam's nuclear umbrella. That was the trade of

144
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,400
Speaker 1: the last two years. Those funds will struggle now. Undoubtedly

145
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 1: also the growth funds that did that thirty two billion

146
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,840
Speaker 1: dollar round for f t X last year. Those are

147
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,079
Speaker 1: some of the best and most respected funds in the world.

148
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,760
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a huge amount of scrutiny there. The

149
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,360
Speaker 1: question will be did they fail to do diligence or

150
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 1: did Sam lie to them? Uh? And if actively commit

151
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 1: fraud during that round. I don't know what the answer is,

152
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 1: but you have to imagine if they knew the truth

153
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 1: of FX's business at that point, there's no way they

154
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,319
Speaker 1: would have done that deal. Again, these are some of

155
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,040
Speaker 1: the most credible and respected, not just crypto but generalist

156
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 1: funds in the world. That round and then the lack

157
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,079
Speaker 1: of governance over there will also be severely scrutinized. Now,

158
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,679
Speaker 1: what about retail traders, I mean, aren't they gonna want

159
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 1: to see um some sort of guarantee that these exchanges

160
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:33,600
Speaker 1: are going to be able to make them whole or

161
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,199
Speaker 1: else not leave any money on the platform. Yeah, I mean,

162
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 1: retail has been kind of very skeptical the centralized exchanges

163
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,520
Speaker 1: ever since the events of the summer. This is going

164
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,319
Speaker 1: to make it worse again. F t X was considered

165
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,080
Speaker 1: one of the most credible exchanges top three, really most

166
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 1: credible in the world. Now, um, we are seeing some

167
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,199
Speaker 1: efforts that reform, like joint and mentioned exchanges doing proof

168
00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 1: of reserve. I'm really hardened to see a lot of

169
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,600
Speaker 1: exchanges announcing they're going to do that. That's probably not

170
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 1: going to be enough to rebuild confidence at this point.

171
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,400
Speaker 1: F t X, really one of the biggest and most

172
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,240
Speaker 1: visible public facing exchanges in the world, going down is

173
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 1: just gonna shatter industry confidence. Well that's kind of what

174
00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to pick up on what I was thinking

175
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 1: about coin Base yesterday. If you're an f t X

176
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 1: user and suddenly perhaps if this deal closes, you're going

177
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,520
Speaker 1: to be a binance user, would maybe you rather be

178
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,679
Speaker 1: with a coin base. Wouldn't you rather be with the

179
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,400
Speaker 1: US publicly listed company that's under the purview of the

180
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,400
Speaker 1: US government. Is that too naive for me to think?

181
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,679
Speaker 1: And I see coin Base today, it's just down another

182
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: six percent. The stock has been doing terribly, so maybe

183
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,719
Speaker 1: no one agrees with me. I have no reason a

184
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,160
Speaker 1: question coin basis solvency. I think they've been really well

185
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,320
Speaker 1: behaved throughout their entire history. But also a lot of

186
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 1: these users are offshore. Maybe they you know, don't have

187
00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,560
Speaker 1: access to a lot of ft X users were users

188
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,120
Speaker 1: because they didn't have access to other exchanges, whether Body

189
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 1: and stor point base. Actually, so, yeah, the US exchange

190
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: is not part of this deal. Also. I mean the

191
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,040
Speaker 1: other thing I'll say is, since it is non binding,

192
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,480
Speaker 1: you talked about this deal closing. I mean, I think

193
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,400
Speaker 1: that's really up in the air at this point. I mean,

194
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 1: I would say that the general feeling is that it

195
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,280
Speaker 1: probably isn't going to happen. Um. You know, it sounds

196
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,840
Speaker 1: like CZ has put out some stuff talking about doing

197
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,079
Speaker 1: the deal and this sort of thing, and they've they're

198
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,920
Speaker 1: obviously um looking at it. But I think there's a

199
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:44,079
Speaker 1: big sentiment that this this may not actually happen just ahead.

200
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 1: I just think actually the liability that Finance would be

201
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,079
Speaker 1: inheriting here is astronomical. I think I would say, very

202
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 1: low probability that the deal actually closes. Wow, alright, real quick,

203
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,080
Speaker 1: Nick thirty seconds, what happens to Sam Bank ben Free?

204
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,120
Speaker 1: Do you think in the next day's weeks? I wouldn't

205
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 1: want to be in issues, man, Um. I think the

206
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,560
Speaker 1: question is is whether there's criminal liability. I would say

207
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:14,400
Speaker 1: likelihood of yes. Oh boy, alright, and Nicko down in

208
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,160
Speaker 1: Miami stay safe down there. I know we get a

209
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 1: little bit of a weather event come in your way.

210
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:19,960
Speaker 1: But you guys are used to with Nick Carter founding

211
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,440
Speaker 1: partner Castle Castle Island Adventures, Joanna Osinger, and Katie Greifeld,

212
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,480
Speaker 1: a cross asset reporter. So we had it just circled here,

213
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 1: a big, big day in crypto yesterday. We're gonna be

214
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 1: dealing with this for the days and weeks to come. Alright.

215
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,600
Speaker 1: So the red wave that was kind of expected with

216
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: his mid term elections coming in more like a red ripple,

217
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 1: I think, is what I've read the term I've been

218
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,320
Speaker 1: hearing this. I go with that. Um. Nathan Dean, he's

219
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: a senior policy analyst for the US and Latin America

220
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,400
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence for better worse. He's located in d C.

221
00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,000
Speaker 1: He's one of those d C policy wants that you

222
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,079
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to go hang out with at a

223
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,320
Speaker 1: cocked up party. But the man we might like to

224
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 1: hang out with Nathan, but boy does he know what's

225
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,599
Speaker 1: going on down there. So Nathan, We're so lucky to

226
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,480
Speaker 1: get a couple of minutes of your time. What do

227
00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 1: you take away from what we know so far about

228
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,920
Speaker 1: these mid term elections? So last night was a shock.

229
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think any many people were anticipating

230
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 1: that the Democrats were going to perform as most they

231
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 1: did in the House. It's almost like the New York

232
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,280
Speaker 1: Jets beating but the Buffalo bills last week. It was feasible,

233
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,079
Speaker 1: but you know, it was still a shock. And so,

234
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,360
Speaker 1: you know, going into the election, there was this anticipation

235
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,080
Speaker 1: that the Republicans are going to have thirty seats, forty seats.

236
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,400
Speaker 1: The latest projection I'm seeing from Bloomberg right now is

237
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 1: maybe about two to three seats, and so that's a

238
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,880
Speaker 1: very tight margin in the House. In the Senate, you know,

239
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,040
Speaker 1: I think there was more anticipation that the Democrats would

240
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 1: perform well there. Uh, if you see what's happening in Georgia, Nevada,

241
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,640
Speaker 1: and Arizona, it looks like the Georgia runoff is going

242
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,360
Speaker 1: to be the most important thing to determine in the

243
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,440
Speaker 1: Senate control. But you know, I will say the thing

244
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: that we're telling our clients right now is that if

245
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,200
Speaker 1: the Democrats win the House and they keep the Senate,

246
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,720
Speaker 1: it brings back reconciliation, and that brings back the ability

247
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 1: to do broad corporate tax increases if they wanted to

248
00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,760
Speaker 1: fiscal stimulus. That's the one scenario that I don't think

249
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 1: the markets have really looked at. So that's the one

250
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,280
Speaker 1: thing that we're telling people to watch for right now.

251
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 1: All I care about is the salt deduction? Is it

252
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,440
Speaker 1: ever coming back? Nathan? Well, you know there, you know,

253
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 1: Carl Smith at Bloomberg Opinion wrote a great calm this

254
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,800
Speaker 1: week about how tax bipartisanship could play out in three

255
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,520
Speaker 1: and salt deduction is one of those things. And unfortunately

256
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 1: for the people that are living in New York and

257
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 1: New Jersey at the moment, you know, the thought is

258
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 1: that salt deduction may go away in its entirety. Now, Uh,

259
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 1: you know, it's way too soon to tell. I mean,

260
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 1: taxes probably uh one of the two or three top

261
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,440
Speaker 1: issues they're gonna play out in three no matter the election,

262
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,200
Speaker 1: because the Trump bear at tax cuts are eventually going

263
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 1: to expire for the consumers, and so uh, you know,

264
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,600
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling very good about it at the moment.

265
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 1: But Andrew Silverman, our tax analysts, is certainly looking at it,

266
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 1: and it's going to come back up next year. All right, Nathan,

267
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,040
Speaker 1: your policy geek. We love talking to you to get

268
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 1: to the real details here. Over the next two years,

269
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,360
Speaker 1: what happens in Washington? Can anything really get done? Or

270
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 1: is it the veto pen from the president gonna sty

271
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 1: me what could be a Republican controlled Congress. So you

272
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: know you hear grid luck. Grid luck is going to increase. Well,

273
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,320
Speaker 1: grid luck is the new normal. I mean, things happen

274
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 1: in gridlock. It's just instead of going through this process

275
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,360
Speaker 1: where you have big bills and debates and so forth,

276
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 1: it all gets bunched up into government shutdown fights or

277
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,000
Speaker 1: dead sealing fights. It's a perfect opportunity for Republicans to

278
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 1: try and use leverage. This happens if the Republicans control

279
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 1: the House, now the Senate side, if the Republican if

280
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 1: the Democrats control the Senate, you're going to see certain

281
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,880
Speaker 1: bills move faster through uh and so forth. But Ultimately,

282
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 1: there are a couple of things. One, the president is

283
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,000
Speaker 1: still the president, which means anything that he signs has

284
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,720
Speaker 1: to be bipartisan. There's no way the filibuster is going

285
00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 1: away in the next two years, so again it has

286
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 1: to be by partisan. So rather than these broad economic

287
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 1: fiscal stimulus bills, the debates and the fights get down

288
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 1: to the sector level. So if you're in things like

289
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 1: marijuana or cryptocurrencies or drug pricing, you know, this is

290
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 1: where you actually have to start looking at the legislations

291
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 1: that maybe don't you know, materially change your portfolio, but

292
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 1: certainly would increase sales, increase revenue, increased costs, etcetera. And

293
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 1: it happens. So that reminds me of the Safe Banking Act,

294
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 1: which is something that um, I don't think anyone has

295
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 1: been particularly optimistic about allowing cannabis, allowing keys companies to bank,

296
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,200
Speaker 1: and to allowing them to be advised by Wall Street

297
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 1: on m and a, etcetera. Is that still not gonna

298
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 1: happen anytime soon? Actually we're fairly bullsh on it. I

299
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,800
Speaker 1: actually think that there is a decent chance that could

300
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 1: pass in the lame Duck. For those of you listening,

301
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, at State Banking Act allows banks to service

302
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,240
Speaker 1: marijuana businesses. Now, the potstocks react almost time any time

303
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 1: a policymaker mentions this. But the Safe Banking Act is

304
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,120
Speaker 1: currently attached to the House for the National Defense Authorization Act.

305
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 1: And because we think that, you know, the Senate Democrats

306
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,399
Speaker 1: want this issue done, they want to pass on it

307
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 1: and so forth like that, Ultimately I think it will pass.

308
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,960
Speaker 1: The most important thing to keep keep in mind is

309
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 1: that these potstocks react almost when this news like happens,

310
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,359
Speaker 1: but then once they realize that decriminalization illegalizations not going occur,

311
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 1: they decline the next day. So certainly be careful of

312
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,760
Speaker 1: watching this in the lame duck period. Nathan, what question

313
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 1: are Matt and I not smart enough to ask you

314
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,680
Speaker 1: that we should be asking you this morning? You know everything, man,

315
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 1: what's the most important issue that we're that us layman,

316
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 1: are are missing out on here? So you know, I

317
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 1: would just say, just the death ceiling is coming back,

318
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,240
Speaker 1: and the dead ceiling fight is coming back, and you

319
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,240
Speaker 1: know what what does that mean? Remind us of what

320
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,399
Speaker 1: that means, because it's been a while. Okay, so you know,

321
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 1: the dead ceiling is essentially the limit that the U. S.

322
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 1: Treasury is allowed to borrow up to to pay our

323
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 1: debts and so forth like that, and every few years

324
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,880
Speaker 1: or every six months as it was early or Congress

325
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,640
Speaker 1: needs to approve the limit. Now, in the last death

326
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 1: ceiling debate, uh, the Democrats were able to unilarially raise

327
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 1: the debt ceiling by a dollar amount as opposed to

328
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 1: a data amount. And essentially the United States will run

329
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: out of money to pay its debts sometime in the

330
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 1: first half of next year. Now they can use what

331
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 1: is known as extraordinary measures to use other funds and

332
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,399
Speaker 1: the ultimate go no go deadline is probably sometime in

333
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 1: the third quarter. That's what Ira Jersey, are chief right strategist,

334
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 1: is is predicting. So the death ceiling is this really

335
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,400
Speaker 1: bad time for markets in terms of do you see

336
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 1: lots of headlines political brickman ship, you know, the end

337
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 1: of the world is coming. Fixed income certainly reacts to it,

338
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,880
Speaker 1: Equity strategy certainly, fixed too reacts to it. But ultimately

339
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,240
Speaker 1: Congress kick the can down the road at the last minute. Now,

340
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: if Kevin McCarthy does become the Speaker of the House,

341
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 1: he said he wants to use this as leverage to

342
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 1: potentially get in some deficit reductions or something like that,

343
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 1: but ultimately we think it's going to just play out

344
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 1: the same way, really painful headlines. Folks in the sixth

345
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 1: think of market night liking what they're seeing. But ultimately

346
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,719
Speaker 1: there's a deal and then it gets done. It's just

347
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,119
Speaker 1: pain for all of us in the markets. Dead ceiling

348
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 1: is a bit like my spending budget at home. I

349
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 1: just raise it whenever I need to eat. Why not?

350
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,679
Speaker 1: You can handle it, Nathan Dean, You are too good

351
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 1: at this stuff. I mean, it's serious policy. Geek. We

352
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 1: love getting your guy. Oh yeah, cool guy, but again

353
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 1: cock part better word, better than geek. He's the senior

354
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: policy analysts for bloom. I know boiler makers as whear

355
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: as fast food burgers go, Matt, Wendy's are one of

356
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: my all time face. Oh dude, Wendy's is the best

357
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,480
Speaker 1: in terms of the major change there. I think there's

358
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: no comparison that if you just put up you know

359
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 1: the main burgers of Wendy's, McDonald's and Burger King. Clearly

360
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: Wendy's is geting away. Yeah, I'm with you there, fresh ingredients, delicious,

361
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: the numbers just this morning. Soon to check in with that.

362
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 1: I want to check in with just what's going on

363
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: with the fast food bisines in general the restaurant business.

364
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 1: We do that with Mike Halen. He's a senior restaurant

365
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 1: analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence. So Mike, uh, Wendy's. I'm all

366
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: into Wendy's. How did they do with their results here?

367
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: And I'm with you guys, Wendy's. Wendy's has a great product.

368
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 1: Wendy's similar to a lot of the quick service chains

369
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: and restaurant chains that we covered. They did better than

370
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: expected on the sales side. Um, you know, three year

371
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 1: trends accelerated, so so the trends in the third quarter

372
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,679
Speaker 1: were better than they were in the second quarter, but

373
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 1: margins took a hit, right, Restaurant level margins contracted again

374
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 1: pretty significantly. You know, things we've passed peak inflation, so uh,

375
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 1: they should improve next year. But they're also expecting some

376
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 1: some significant Morgin margin pressure in the fourth quarter as well,

377
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: which I mean from a consumer perspective, that's a good

378
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: thing because you know that they're not going to skimp

379
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: on the ingredients, um that make their products so good.

380
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: I guess they have to raise prices, right yeah, right

381
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 1: now they're running at about ten percent, which is uh,

382
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's typically the high end of what consumers

383
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: will expect will accept in the quick service realm Um.

384
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 1: You know. Uh, they said for next year, looking at

385
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: more like mid single digit price increases. Um. You know,

386
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 1: inflation should ease to about that level as well. Um.

387
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean what they said on the call,

388
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: and what a few other companies have mentioned is that

389
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: the consumers earning seventy thousand a year and less are

390
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: cutting back on their spending. So they're they're visiting less,

391
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: they're ordering more off the value menu, uh, and less

392
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 1: off the regular menu. Um, you know. And does the

393
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: lowering I mean, let's say we go into a recession, right,

394
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,120
Speaker 1: I mean like a real recession, not just the two

395
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: quarters of contraction that we've already seen. Um, does the

396
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: lowering cancome consumer eat less at fast food or does

397
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: a lower consumer go more to the you know, the

398
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 1: value menu because it seems like it is cheaper to

399
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: get a value menu at a fast food place and

400
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: it is to make a good healthy meal at home. Yeah.

401
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: So I mean there's a lot of people doing that

402
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 1: now where they're they're doing these fast food diets where

403
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: they're eating at fast food restaurants, you know, two or

404
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: three times a day to try to save money. So, um,

405
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 1: you know, customers will do that, but you'll also have

406
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: few that's not healthy. I'm sure my doctor wouldn't advise

407
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: that for sure, but you know, so so what we'd

408
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 1: expect and what we saw in the last recession, you know,

409
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: I think is a good good indicator. So what you'll

410
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: see is you'll see some people falling out of the

411
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: QSR bucket and into maybe more grocery purchases because it

412
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: is cheaper to feedure family that way. Um. But then

413
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: you'll have some middle and upper uh, some middle and

414
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 1: higher income consumers kind of fall into that QSR bucket

415
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 1: to kind of save some money. Um. But you know

416
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: what happened last time was McDonald's got really aggressive with

417
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: price uh and and push their value menu very very aggressively,

418
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: and and it definitely hurt hurt some of the smaller

419
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: QSR chains like you know, Wendy's, Jack in the Box

420
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: and something. Yeah, so they're not the same, they don't

421
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: they don't have the same reach. I mean, I just

422
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 1: went to Indonesia via Tokyo, stopped in you know, Tokyo.

423
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: I was in Jakarta. McDonald's is everywhere their Jersey. They

424
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: have McDonald's New Jersey as well. But the point being,

425
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 1: you know, you don't see Wendy's over there. You don't

426
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: see Wendy's really in Europe very much. I mean there's

427
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: I think there's one of heath Throw but otherwise, um,

428
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 1: they're not there. Is that better for them? Right now?

429
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: They're not affected by they don't close stores in Russia

430
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: for example, Um, they don't have to get out of

431
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: places that are getting hit already economically. I wouldn't. I

432
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: would say that it's not better for them. So and

433
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: the reason why is that that franchise. Everyone franchises their

434
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: business internationally, right, so they're not getting hit with the

435
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: inflation pressures. This is just those those businesses are just

436
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: um basically paying the franchise or a royalty stream. Right.

437
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: So the fact that Wendy's doesn't have that international business,

438
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, is part of the reason why. That is

439
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: just it's got that smaller market cap, right, it's just

440
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: a smaller chain in general. But it also provides them

441
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: with a pretty good opportunity, right They have a strong

442
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: business in Canada. Uh, they're expanding into Europe and they're

443
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: starting with the u K. And they're really playing the

444
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: long game, right And you know, it's it's clear that

445
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: the UK is kind of struggling right now and and

446
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: European recession is likely going to be worse than what

447
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: we we experience here in the US. But but Wendy's

448
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: is definitely playing the long game there in terms of

449
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: their international expansion. I think it's it's a it's a

450
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: very good opportunity for them. All right, Folks that are

451
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 1: listening that are Bloomberg terminal users. If you want the

452
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: best research on a law street, on the restaurant, it's

453
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: going to be I Eats, a T S Go And

454
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: that's where you can find all the Mike's work might

455
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: be I Space, I Space eats, Yes, exactly. So, Mike,

456
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: I was at Chipotle yesterday on Third Avenue here in Manhattan,

457
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: and instead of having three people behind the counter making

458
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: you know, the burritos and the tacos and things like that,

459
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: there was one. And so the line was crazy long,

460
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: and I went up. When I finally got up there,

461
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: I asked the woman behind and she's like, Yeah, we

462
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: usually have three people here, but we don't today because

463
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: they just can't hire enough. So how much is that

464
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: labor still an issue for the restaurant business? It is,

465
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,959
Speaker 1: It is an issue. Um, It's not as bad as

466
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: it was a couple of quarters ago. And you know,

467
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: if the economy continues as slow, which we expect, we

468
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: think it should eat some more. But right now Chipotle

469
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: is a little bit of a different animal. Um. You know,

470
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 1: their sales are up thirty four percent since right so

471
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: you have they've absolutely crushed it. They're one of the

472
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: your chains that have you know, traffic games since that time. UM,

473
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: so they are in more and more in need of

474
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: labor than a lot of their competitors. Right now, we're

475
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: probably getting pretty close to that twenty nineteen employment levels

476
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: in the restaurant industry. We're at that so you know,

477
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: the industry was understaffed prior to the pandemic. They're still understaffed.

478
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: Uh and probably take you know, more technology implicating implementation

479
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: over the next decade to kind of eventually get to

480
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: that fully staffed. Do you like them the best, Mike,

481
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: if you had to pick, if we uh look at

482
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: all of your research, you know, what's what's the stock

483
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: that you're most excited about. Oh wow, Um, you know

484
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: that I cover a lot of them, so uh, you know,

485
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 1: in terms of performance wise, Chapole is really not going

486
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: to cover off the ball. They have some risk because

487
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: they're exposed to California, which uh, you know could raise

488
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: quick service employee minimum wage to twenty two dollars uh

489
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: at the beginning in next year. Yeah, so that's kind

490
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: of um, that's kind of a risk to that name. Uh.

491
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: And they own their stores. So the stocks come down

492
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: from thirteen seventy three over the last year. So yeah,

493
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: it's it's been a pretty pretty good damn move. But

494
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: you know, that's probably as well run as any restaurant

495
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: chain I cover. You know. McDonald's is another great name,

496
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, and they really have the scale to to

497
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: offer price points that their competitors just can't during a recession.

498
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: And I will die on this hill the best fries

499
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: in the business, McDonald's. Mike Klin, Senior restaurant analyst, Bloomberg Intelligence.

500
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: If you want all that restaurant research BI Space Eats,

501
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: go on the Bloomberg terminal. Alright, a recession is either

502
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 1: here or it's coming but I can tell you from

503
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: decades of experience in the media business, advertisers don't like recessions.

504
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: That's one of the things they pull back on first.

505
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: And so we're seeing it across the board with these

506
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: quarterly numbers coming in either wrong enough. And she's a

507
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: US media analyst, senior analysts Bloomberg Intelligence, one of the

508
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 1: best on the street. Man deeps seeing a fairly decent

509
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: tech analyst here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. He

510
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: covers meta and all those social media things. Keith, let

511
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: me start with you. Mickey Mouse is down twelve percent today.

512
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: What did the company say on a conference call last

513
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: night that spooked people so much? Oh? Well, subscriber numbers

514
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: were actually very very good, But that's not enough these days, Paul.

515
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: I mean, we were really looking at some really bad

516
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: numbers on the possibility front. So parks came in much

517
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: much lighter than expected. And really it's the DTC business,

518
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: the director consumer business that I think is kind of

519
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: really spooking investors because they already have booked about eight

520
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: billion dollars in losses at this segment and it's just

521
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: not going to get much better up until at least

522
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: maybe another one and a half years, So, um, you

523
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: know they The main problem really is the guidance that

524
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: they gave for a fiscal three So uh, consensus was

525
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: looking at about operating income guidance for the entire company.

526
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: They set high single digits and so it's just basically

527
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: weakness across the board. Um and investors kind of really

528
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: looking at fiscal three as an extremely cost year. It's

529
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: about costs, like what what what's costing them so much?

530
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: What are the blockbuster hits on Disney Plus that are

531
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: so expensive to produce? It's it's content, Yes, content is

532
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: very very expensive. It's sports rights. They pay about billion

533
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: dollars in sports rights for ESPN. But yes, it's it's

534
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: thirty two billion dollars that they're going to be spending

535
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: in content costs, um and um you know that that

536
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: really kind of crimps of the bottom line. I mean,

537
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: why do I need Disney Plus? Is it Mandalorian? Am

538
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: I getting it for encantent? Need? For what you needed

539
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: for the Little One? For? Yeah? I love one, and

540
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: you have no choice. You have to get Disney Plus

541
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: for the Little One? Man deep Unlike eth who covers

542
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: real companies, your companies. I mean, profits are you know,

543
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: maybe you got profits, maybe you will have profits. Maybe

544
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: there's a dude he covers a company that just is

545
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: firing eleven thousand employees and that's only pcent of the

546
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: workforce exactly. So talk to us about Meta. I mean

547
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: it stocks up seven percent on the news. But this

548
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: is what happens when a traditional industrial company they announced

549
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: their cutting their workforce and the stock goes up, not

550
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: a high flying growth stock like Meta. What's going on

551
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: with this company? We're talking about making money. You know,

552
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: Meta had forty percent free cash flow margin before they

553
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: jumped into this Meta wors and they're bleeding, you know,

554
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: over ten billion dollars a year on Meta words and

555
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: they're spending approximately ten billion dollars on topex to build

556
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: a metawors stacks. So I think what really has concerned

557
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: investors about Meta specifically is, look, you know there is

558
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: competition from TikTok, but beyond that, you know, if you're

559
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: spending hundred billion dollars in five years on this new thing,

560
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: it has to have some commercial viability and it's not

561
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: proven right now. So that is you know, you could

562
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: argue roadblocks is the best bed when it comes to

563
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: metal Works. But it's a two billion dollar revenue run

564
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: right company with a very niche audience, and they're building

565
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: the metaverse. So and then they're letting consumers build it,

566
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: users build it for free, right, whereas Zuckerberg is spending

567
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: ten billion dollars a year to build it for us exactly.

568
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: And they still don't have the same amount of content

569
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: that Roadblocks has. So talking about content costs as Geta

570
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: was alluding to, in this case, he is trying to

571
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: source more content on the metal Works, but clearly the

572
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: engagement metrics aren't there, and he keeps doubling down. So

573
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: you know, that is the reason why the stock fell

574
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: off so much. The core business is still pretty good,

575
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: although I would argue, you know, why can't they catch

576
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: up to TikTok. At the end of the day, TikTok

577
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: is using an AI based feed, It has a lot

578
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: of original content, so one Meta needs to content. Yeah,

579
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: and and so right now, what Meta is doing is

580
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: they pivoted to videos and reels, but it doesn't have

581
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: the original creators creating that on Meta first, and that

582
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: is what they need to do in terms of pulling

583
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: those creators. Maybe there has to be a revenue sharing

584
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: aspect to it. Like YouTube, Meta doesn't pay anything to

585
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: its creators. So once you bake in the revenue sharing aspect,

586
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: that will print the gross margins. But they haven't announced

587
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: that yet. Man deep, So your universe, unlike eas, is

588
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: facing real challenges in terms of well just heads are

589
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: rolling basically right, Facebook and Twitter and um, you know

590
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: coin based. Everybody in in tech in Silicon Valley is

591
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: getting fired. Is this the worst you know, pink slip

592
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: party that we've seen since two thousand? Well, so, I

593
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: think there was clearly a pull forward and based on

594
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: what everyone has told us so far, they feel like

595
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: they overhired. They thought revenue growth of will continue forever

596
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: and uh look has it happened before. Yes, in this case,

597
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: I think there will be a correction. Some of these

598
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: businesses you know that are based on user metrics and

599
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: you know AI driven, there are real businesses. It's not

600
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: as if they're going to disappear or somebody knew will

601
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: come on the block. It's just a matter of course

602
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: correcting and revenue for employee was just going down. Businesses.

603
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: Business I mean, you got about thirty seconds here, where

604
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: is a media invest investor to go to hide out here.

605
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: Tough question. You know, um really really because the goal

606
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: boasts have kept shifting. You know, we were in for

607
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: streaming pain with the profit losses, we're in for a

608
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: lot of linear TV pain. So yeah, that that I

609
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,239
Speaker 1: really don't know. There's really nowhere to hide. That's why

610
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I mean, that's why nobody picks up Keith's

611
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: phone when she calls to talk about stock ideas in

612
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: the media space, like I mean, I think you go

613
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 1: to like I mean a New York Times, I mean,

614
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: go back to some of the sleeping through his paper

615
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: names or some of the advertising, or you go to

616
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: a different industry right now. Yeah, but if you're geither

617
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: on Anath and your media anals, you kind of gotta

618
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: stick with media. So Keithan thanks so much. It'll come back.

619
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: Keithan Wronganath and she's a US media Annalso Bloomberg Intelligence

620
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: based in Princeton, which I think might be the new

621
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: headquarters of Bloomberg Intelligence if I'm not I'm not incorrect,

622
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: Man Deep saying he's still here in New York and

623
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio trying to make sense of

624
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: what's going on with our good friends at Meta Crypto. Boy,

625
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: it is ugly out there in the crypto space. Cryptocurrencies

626
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: extended declines to the lowest level in two years as

627
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: Binas is seen increasingly unlikely to follow through on us

628
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: take over of ft X dot Com. Let's just get

629
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: a reset what's going on in the crypto space. Let's

630
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: do a little round table action, if we will. Mike McLane,

631
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: he's a senior commodity strategist for Bloomberg Intelligence Um Commodities,

632
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: but he's been our kind of our bitcoin and our

633
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: crypto kind of market specialist really over the last several years.

634
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: And Shinnellie Basket Wall Street reporter with Bloomberg News joints

635
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: us in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Mike, you down

636
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: in Miami at the Bloomberg Miami office manning that office.

637
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: I know hurricanes coming your way, you guys getting safe

638
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: down there, Paul, Well, right now, it's just tropical storm rain.

639
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: I hear it's mostly hitting the Bahamas. Might head north

640
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: actually your way, and I'll be your next week. So

641
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: I'm bringing the storm with me. He's gonna hit Sam

642
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: Bankman Freed first, then, right, isn't the in Sahammas? But

643
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: that what's the key thing. It's true, it's Bahamas. It's

644
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: kind of you know, ironic, but that whole thing with

645
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: him is such a shock we you know, the crypto

646
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: space view to him is basically the savior. It turns

647
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: out he might have been just a fraud. Well I guess,

648
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: but I mean here's we got the you know, the

649
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: headline crossing the Bloomberg terminal in the United States probes

650
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: FTX empire overhandling of client funds and if you would

651
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: certainly hope so right, I mean, otherwise, what the heck

652
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: are they doing? Let's get too Shonali really give us.

653
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: Let's back up a little bit. Tell us what happened

654
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: over the last week? What uh caused Sam Bankman Free

655
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: to go from like the well respected in Washington super

656
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: billionaire that everybody wanted to get a meeting with, and

657
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: it was called the John Pierpont Morgan of crypto to

658
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: a guy who might be investigated for the F word

659
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: a few thing. I mean, that's not what he's being

660
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: an investigator force. I do want to make that very clear.

661
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: That has not been determined yet. But or at all

662
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: for that matter. But you know, when you look at

663
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: what happened here, the coin deaths came out with the

664
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: story really outlining the relationship between the f t T

665
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 1: token issued by f t X and Alameda, which is

666
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: another entity owned largely by Sam Bankman Freed. These are

667
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: two different companies, and it drew some concerns about the

668
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: intersectionality between the two companies and the balance sheets. F

669
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: t X is the exchange, Alameda is his VC company.

670
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: Turned turned out that Alameda had a lot of his

671
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: f t X token and was you know, doing a

672
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff with it in terms of how they

673
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: were trading and getting into different assets. However, what happened

674
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: that really started to get a lot of attention here

675
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: was the Binance the CEO of Binance on Twitter started

676
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: announcing that they would be selling their f t T tokens.

677
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: They had a lot of it, and so saying a

678
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: billion dollars worth, correct, half a billion dollars worth and

679
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: saying that they would be selling so many tokens would

680
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: start to put pressure on the price by other people

681
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: selling on the back of Binance selling. Then what had

682
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: happened was you start to see, uh, Sam bank Man

683
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: freed really saying that there weren't clear liquidity issues in

684
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: the company. They were fine, that's a different company, right,

685
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: So so CZ is like, we're going to dump this

686
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: f t T token and that dropped sevent in value.

687
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: So al Meda has a ton of what's now worth

688
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: less token, worth less than it was a week before.

689
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: Then people think, okay, well, we are not sure about

690
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: the connections between al Meda and f t X other

691
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: than the fact that Sam Bankman fried, We're not even

692
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: clear that that's why Finance was selling. But but but

693
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: it looks like people on the FTX platform or like, listen,

694
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: we gotta get our money off that platform, right. So

695
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: that's that is when they finally announced the deal or

696
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: a potential transaction. It was really just a letter of intent,

697
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: a non binding one for that matter, and the reason

698
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: was to seal some of these liquidity issues that Matt

699
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: was talking about. The problem now becomes, you know, twenty

700
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: four hours barely after that, we are now reporting coin

701
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: Desk has reported as well. They re first with the

702
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: news here that Finance is strongly leaning towards scrapping that

703
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: proposed takeover. Okay, so they're actually doing due diligence, unlike

704
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: some other folks when they buy companies. Mike mcglowan here,

705
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: what does this mean for the crypto space. You're used

706
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: to traditional commodities supply and demand, that kind of thing.

707
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: How do you think this plays in the crypto space

708
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: going forward? It's stopped. That's the key thing I learned

709
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: in training. This is a stop pitting trigger for all cryptos.

710
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't see now Bitcoin the next key

711
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: supports not till about twelve thousand. The theory might hold

712
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: a thousand, but this is a clear shocker. It means

713
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: hitting yourself, stops, get out. I mean just that juxtabitious

714
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: and has seen sand Bank and Streeing sitting on the

715
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: stage with Bill Clinton and Tony Blair back at the

716
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: Salt conference that was at earlier near It's just a

717
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: shocker how that shifted. So the key thing I want

718
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: to end is that to me, this is potentially the

719
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: concasion for all risks because Bitcoin has been one of

720
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: the best leading gators on the way up and clearly

721
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: in the way down, and now we're seeing it. It

722
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 1: was a trigger yesterday for people hitting stops and crudeoil

723
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: and they're hitting stops in stocks now. So to me,

724
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: this is part of that great reversion of trickling. And

725
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: what's the best indicator for it that a good old

726
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: bitcoin and check it out. You look at some of

727
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: the stocks that are trading either in the US or elsewhere.

728
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: Coin Base was down ten percent yesterday, another nine percent today,

729
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 1: and even though they said that they didn't have liquidity issues.

730
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: I want to put on another firm the head not

731
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: that much exposure to f TX itself, but it did

732
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 1: have some exposure. Galaxy Digital. This is billionaire Mike Novergrat's

733
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: company is down twenty percent today. It trades in Canada.

734
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: It's trying to listen to the United States, and so

735
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: to the point that you can see contagion. You are

736
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: seeing billionaires lose a lot of money today. All Right,

737
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: you know, really interesting stuff. I'm glad we've allocated a

738
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: lot of time during the show to crypto. We will

739
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: continue to do it going forward. Mike mcglogan's senior Commodity

740
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: Strategies for Bloomberg. Intelligency is based out of Miami Beach,

741
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: which is trying to make itself the crypto capital. We're

742
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: gonna check in with Mike going forward to see how

743
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: that is going in Miami. Again, one of the hubs

744
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: for all things crypto and snelly bastis she covers Wall

745
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: Street UH and the reaction and fancier markets to what

746
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: is a meltdown in the crypto UH space. So we

747
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: will continue to follow up on this story. Alright. So

748
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: over in Egypt, Matt they're having some of the United

749
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: Nations is having something called COP twenty seven where they're

750
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: talking about climate change and what governments need to do

751
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: to arrest climate change and it's a big deal. And

752
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: Bloomberg sending a lot of our smart people over to

753
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: Egypt H to participate Charmel Shake. Charmel Shake, which is

754
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: like the that's a diving capital of Egypt. Oh and

755
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: Shaheen contractor are e s G analyst for Bloomberg Intelligence.

756
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 1: She is a diver and she's going over so hopell

757
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: she sh'll get to dive there. But she you're going

758
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: over to Egypt Cop twenty seven. Realistically, you're a Wall

759
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: Street person. You look at s G as an investment theme.

760
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: What is Wall Street? What does the e s G

761
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: community really think may come from COP twenty seven this year?

762
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: Copy last year and presuming COP twenty eight next year.

763
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: Thanks Boyd. So I'll tell you what I'm most excited

764
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: about and at least what I'm looking forward to. I

765
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: think what happened with Copy Last till and even this

766
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: hell is that companies are setting these cob and goals

767
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: at a base we've never seen before. I've never seen it.

768
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: It's a big, big karma option, okay. And the question

769
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: is we have no idea what that actually transitions to,

770
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: whether actually means in practice, if they execute exactly preparedness

771
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 1: to meet goes, what they're doing to meet these goals,

772
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: rather than just putting out numbers. So I think what

773
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: I would expect and I'd like to see is actual

774
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: plans around preparedness, and we are saying that come to light.

775
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: So first, today is Financi Day at CUFF, so very

776
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 1: very realistic. Um, the UK, I think yesterday came out

777
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: with this proposal to get every company to disclose on

778
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: its transition plan. And there was a similar U N

779
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: report today that sets out standards to judge companies. So

780
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: I got most excited by that. I can you got

781
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: a master's in sustainability management at Columbia well, so she

782
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: can help those companies actually do that, right, the key

783
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: is here, We're going to hold their feet to the fire.

784
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: You can say, we're going to be uh you know,

785
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: car have been neutral by twenty fifty, which first of

786
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: all is like a hundred years from now. And second

787
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: of all, it's just mumbo jumbo if you don't have

788
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: a real plan to actually achieve it exactly. And I

789
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: think that's what we're going to hope to get out

790
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: of it, I mean to be fair. Also, these carbon

791
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: goals have been set very recently, so I think the

792
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: transition plans and all that will come, but there's now

793
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: this urgent need for it to be more realistic. Well,

794
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: the last cop you know, in what was it in Glasgow? Right,

795
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,479
Speaker 1: the US delegation went there and made a whole bunch

796
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: of promises. Biden held a speech and then on his

797
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: way out he was on the phone with Saudi Arabia

798
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: saying please pump more oil. Right, I mean, so it's

799
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: hard to buy um all of these big promises. I'm

800
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: sure that Charmel Shake will be a nice place to go,

801
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they love rubbing elbows with each other's,

802
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: these these big wigs, But are they actually gonna do

803
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: something about it. As you know, in many countries it

804
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: costs more to charge your car, your electric car, than

805
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: it does to fill up the gas tank. Yeah, no,

806
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean this year is a particularly challenging one. Right,

807
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 1: we have an energy crisis, We have all these things

808
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 1: coming in. And you make a good point because China

809
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: basically has sort of a very high sort of cold

810
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: pipeline for its for its power generation, for it's mining.

811
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: So how is that going to be sort of realistic?

812
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 1: How is that going to be fed in all these questions?

813
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: I think trying to participate in these they do. They

814
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 1: do send delegations every country sense delegations. I don't think

815
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: they're leader is going okay, So I don't. One of

816
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: the challenges is we think about, you know, implementing these

817
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: and and really getting stuff done on the ground as

818
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: opposed to these grand pronouncements, is who regulates this stuff?

819
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: Who says whether my country, my company is actually meeting

820
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: these goals this The SEC doesn't look at this, for example,

821
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: in the United States doesn't. So first, I think when

822
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: these things happened at these conferences, a lot of it

823
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: is self regulated. Actually all of it is self regulated,

824
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: which is a challenge. You have these un agencies that

825
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: basically regulate membership through these things, so that's one. I

826
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of just regulation also coming in

827
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: from the authorities, like the SEC has rules around fun disclosures,

828
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: around emissions. Europe has a huge pipeline of regulations. So

829
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: I think that's all to come, but it may be

830
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: a bit of a meandering on the way there. So

831
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,919
Speaker 1: last week President Biden said we're gonna be shutting down

832
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: all the coal plants across America. Yeah, I mean that's

833
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: a direct quote I have. We still have plans in response. Obviously,

834
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: Joe Mansion wasn't pleased. He called those remarks offensive and disgusting.

835
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: And he's from West Virginia, yes, of course. But the

836
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: point is, and I think the White House is kind

837
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: of walked back those comments. It was maybe it was

838
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: a gaff by the President, which is not unusual, But um,

839
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: don't we have to figure these things out internally before

840
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: we can go and make credible promises with other global leaders.

841
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 1: I mean, especially as we see you know how much

842
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: elections can change the makeup of the House, and maybe

843
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: in two years Leo of an election that changes the

844
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: makeup of the or or the sort of the occupant

845
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: of the White House. How helpful is it to to

846
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,760
Speaker 1: make these these promises. Yeah, that's something that's interesting. I

847
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think a lot of this, A

848
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: lot of what happens at these conferences is basically debating,

849
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: basically raising issues on what their country needs, especially for

850
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: the emerging markets. I think a lot of what they

851
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: are bringing to plate is basically complaints that you know,

852
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: they need the funding for this transitions. I think a

853
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: lot of it is also just voicing the concerns. All right,

854
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: So for just E s G in general, if pharm

855
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: a CEO, I'll comply with E s G whatever, if

856
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: I'm incentive to do so, yes, if I'll get paid

857
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: for it, does that happen? Yes, so, CEO, So executive

858
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: compensation linked to E s G. That is something that's

859
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: been growing tremendously. Actually, So if we we actually did

860
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: this analysis on the Rustle one thousand and we found that,

861
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, as a CEO is payback JAZELLNK to multiple things, right,

862
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: financial returns, all that stuff. E s G is one

863
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: of the factors that's being worked in. And we found

864
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: that actually I don't know the exact number, but I

865
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: think it was of the wrestle one thousand have some

866
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: kind of E s SHE linkages, which I think is interesting.

867
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: Diversity and inclusion has seen this huge spike up, which

868
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: is the most notable out of all the linkage is Yeah,

869
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: we saw that with the Goldman Sachs. They announced their

870
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: partner class and it's the most diverse in their history.

871
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: And that's why there's the biggest Bass Solomon right, big, big, big,

872
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: biggest class and in an effort to improve the diversity

873
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: of their partnership ranks. So we'll see how that goes.

874
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: And we have lots of e s G data, I

875
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: would argue some of the best e s G data

876
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 1: out on the street. When you go to any company,

877
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: you're looking down on the Bloomberg triminal, you hit f

878
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: A for the financial analysis and that will give you

879
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,959
Speaker 1: the income statement to balance it. All that good stuff.

880
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: But we also have a big tab of e s

881
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: G data um ranking all the company, so it's good

882
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: stuff there. She came contractor, she's an e s G

883
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: research channel, so Bloomberg Intelligence. She's about to hop on

884
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: a jet tomorrow head over to Egypt. For COP twenty seven.

885
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: That'll be good stuff here. We'll chat with you when

886
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: you get back. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.

887
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts

888
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm

889
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller. Put on fal Sweeney I'm

890
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can

891
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio