WEBVTT - Psych Up | EP 4 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:02.760 Hi, Curse Up listeners, I know you miss me on 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.560 your feed. Don't worry. We're working on an all new 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.520 season of Curse Of coming out later this year. In 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.879 the meantime, if you can't stop thinking about the shocking 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.320 stories you heard about America's Next Top Model, you'll definitely 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.320 want to check out our new docuseries from E Dirty 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.840 Rotten Scandals. In the series, you'll hear from the America's 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.319 Next Top Model participants you heard from on Curse Of, 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.240 and a few you didn't like former A and TM 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:32.080 judge Janis Dickinson. Dirty Rotten Scandals unveils the dark underbelly 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.159 of the long running TV series through the untold stories 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.519 of former contestants, and shows what happens when a golden 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:43.640 opportunity for aspiring models unravels into a harrowing saga of exploitation, 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.560 shattered dreams, and resilience. You can find the two part 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.919 docuseries Dirty Rotten Scandals America's Next Top Model on E Network. 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:56.000 Check your local TV provider schedule. It's two thousand and 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.760 six and a teenager named Jaslene Gonzalez just sentend her 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.680 on d to be on America's Next Top Model. 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.119 I should be America's like Tima, because I devoted myself 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:10.120 to this every day. It is like a fashion opportunity. 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.399 I caught up with Jaslene earlier this year. These days, 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.479 she's a preschool teacher and she has the soft spoken 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.639 demeanor to match. But back in two thousand and six, 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.080 being on A and TM was her dream. 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.000 I come from a Puerto Rican culture and in Chicago, 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.679 no one was talling skinny, so I was just like 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:29.160 the model of the town. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.480 But there weren't too many high fashion runways in her 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.440 neighborhood in Chicago, so she got exposure elsewhere. 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.600 From a very young age, I grew up on the stage. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.640 I was singing, a dancer, but then naturally I progressed 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.000 into becoming a model. I started competing in pageants, and 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.400 I also started doing hair shows for. 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.640 This Latino woman who owned the hair salon, and I 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.960 started to realize we would win every competition, that I 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.120 would grace the runway. 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.560 On people at school and in her neighborhood. Also started 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.400 to realize there was something special about Jasleen. Remember this 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.560 was also in an era where if you were a tall, 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.600 pretty girl, people would tell you should. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.440 Be on America's Next Top Model, you show audition for 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:16.920 America's Next Top Model. 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.680 That's all I ever heard about. So she did. Jaslene 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:23.760 got her dad to rent a car and she drove 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.960 six hours from Chicago to the nearest audition in Cleveland. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.640 And when she got there, oh, Jaslen was ready. 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.840 I remember my first opportunity to be exposed to the camera. 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.440 I had to step out when they called my name, 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:40.880 saved my name, my height. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:42.720 And where I'm from. 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.280 So I was preparing myself mentally, this is going to 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:50.040 be the time to shine. I said my name, my heights, 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.720 and where I'm from, like the most Choshawk diva ever. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.360 When Jaslen started telling me about her semi finals audition, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.400 her preschool teacher persona melted away. She was filled with 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.080 the energy I remember from A ANDTM. I could see 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.640 the energy that got her into the semifinals. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.000 The next day, I had to stay at a hotel 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.800 and that was where the casting director was actually present, 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.160 which was Michelle Mack. And she had a camera in 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.600 front of her and she had asked each and every girl, 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.040 when you come up to me, consider this camera Tyra Banks, 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.280 and you gotta tell Tyra Banks why you want to 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.880 be on America's next top model. So the girls were 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:40.240 all coming up and they were all giving a sobbing story. 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.800 I mean I'm talking about every girl was crying, she 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:49.480 had issues, she had this. So I'm in my mind 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.760 like no, no, no, no no. I finally get off 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.000 and I started telling the shell mark and the camera 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.040 that I should be America's next toup Mara because I 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.680 got the move, I got the attitude. I can oh 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:07.160 say this and that, and I was so energetic like 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.400 I had lifted something up in that room that I 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:15.320 promise you God is my witness. Every girl after started 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:16.159 talking like me. 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.839 Jsleen's performance landed her in front of the Queen and 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:22.279 her trusted advisors. 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:23.919 Hi, my name is Chae Clean. 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:25.320 I am nineteen years old. 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:26.960 Did you learn all that in Catholic school? 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:27.440 Okay? 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:29.320 That come to tray so. 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:30.400 Many different lines? 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:31.800 Give me some looks? What looks can you? 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:32.039 Ptra? 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.440 I can give you next twenty one? Next, what else? 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.040 Jessleen nailed her audition in front of Tyra and the Jays, 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.600 But once she left that room, she had another very 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:46.799 important room to go into. Here's longtime ANTM creative director 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.239 and judge j Manuel explaining what happened to the wannabe 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.760 contestants after they left the judging panel. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.599 The girls come in and meet with Miss Jay Tyra 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.120 and myself, but they go out of our room and 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:02.920 they literally go into three other rooms. We're three independent psychologists. 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.000 They get an evaluation. 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.640 Jay Manuel is talking about the psychological evaluation. Everyone to 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.040 be contestant had to go through a series of tests 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.440 and conversations with the psychologists to determine if they were 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.200 mentally fit enough to be on the show. 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.359 Had a red, an orange, and a green, and so 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.640 the green was obviously totally mentally capable to be on 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.359 the show, and then Orange and then red were not 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:27.320 allowed to be on the show. 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:32.159 Jaslene, like all the other contestants, answered a series of questions. 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.160 They were asked about their background, their relationships, their struggles. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.120 After Jaslene met with the show psychologists, she and all 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.680 the other finalists were gathered to hear Tyra make her 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.720 final selections. This was the last cut to see who 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.240 would officially be joining the cast of A and TM 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:50.039 Cycle seven. 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:56.479 The last girl that will join these twelve lucky ladies over. 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:03.320 Here is Jaslene. Wait and waited and waited. If other 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:11.440 names were called Jaslene didn't make the cut. 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.880 She counted down the girls that were going to go 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:18.200 into the house, and I was not in that pool. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:26.760 I'm giving up. We shouldn't give up. I was very 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:32.119 upset and kind of dumbfounded by those results. I thought 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.120 I was going to make it into the house. 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.200 When Jaslene got cut, she was so distraught she couldn't 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.120 even bring herself to do her exit interview. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.760 They eventually had to bring a producer to me to 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.320 sit me down and tell me the reason why I 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:48.200 didn't get picked. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.840 The producer told her it wasn't her runway walk that 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.600 got her cut. It wasn't about her not looking good 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.400 in photos. It wasn't that she didn't have that it factor. 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:03.279 She did. Jaslene was cut because of something she told 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:11.800 the show psychologist. Want to beyond Some, want to beyond Some. 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.040 Welcome to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. I'm 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:29.160 Bridget Armstrong. Every ANTM hopeful had to undergo a psychological 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.640 evaluation before being cast on the show. For many, it 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:34.720 was just a long, tedious bump on the way to 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.120 their dream. But for Jaslene Gonzales, it was the thing 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.880 that got her sent home. Here's what she shared with 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.320 A ANDTM psychologists. 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.680 I was very open and explicit about my relationship with 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.600 my boyfriend at the time. I spoke about the highs 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.480 and lows that I was going through. 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.480 But to the psychologists, it sounded like more than highs 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.520 and lows. It sounded like Jaslene was in danger. 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.320 The therapist had overruled Tyra Binks's decision to put me 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.880 into the house because I was in an abusive relationship. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:10.760 That was the first time I had ever heard that 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.960 I was in a domestic violence situation. 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:21.040 Jaslene told the psychologist that her boyfriend was controlling and jealous. 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.800 He would accuse her of cheating and go through her phone, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.920 and sometimes the abuse turned physical. But rather than putting 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.320 her in the house and making her abusive relationship a 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:35.120 storyline or just sending her home with no explanation at all, 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:39.240 Jaslene says A and TM producers made a deal with her. 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:41.960 They were like, you know, if you get out of 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.959 that relationship, if you get help, we would guarantee your 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:50.680 spot back into the house. And so I underwent six 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:55.240 months of therapy to understand what domestic violence is, how 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.280 to get out of it, built some confidence in so 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.640 once I came back, I auditioned. 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:06.079 And the rest is history. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:08.640 America's Next Top Model. 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:18.040 Yes, Jessie, I didn't make it the first time, but 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:18.880 now look at me. 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.720 I'm America's next Top Model. I'm a coverer and I 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.000 think that shows to all young women. If you have 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:26.800 that drive, keep going. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:29.960 Jessie made it into the house on cycle eight and 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.760 won the whole thing. She told me A and TM 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.360 wasn't just a show she won or her ticket into 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.920 the modeling industry. It was a lifeline. 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:44.520 I didn't see those bad patterns, bad behavior as an 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.400 abusers profile, so I would have seen my ex boyfriend 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.160 as someone just normal treating me normal. 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:51.960 You know. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:56.000 So there was this new awareness that now I cary 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.920 Eve him throughout my life. To this day, I feel 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.160 like being on america Next Top Model actually saved my life. 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.079 Jazzleene's experience with the A and TM psyche vow is 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.240 an example of how it worked at its best, But 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:16.240 Jazzleene's story is rare. For a lot of contestants, it 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.240 was just an annoying thing they had to do to 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.040 get on the show. But there are some who say 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.320 this psyche vow was the beginning of their A and 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:27.400 TM trauma and others who say it was biased and flawed. 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.320 When we started looking into the psyche vow we thought 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:33.640 we were just exploring a little known aspect of A 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.120 andtm's casting process. We thought we would do one episode 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:38.839 about how it worked and how it was used on 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.760 the show. But when we scratched beneath the surface, we 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.360 figured out there was a lot more to this story. 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.640 Contestants say the personal trauma they shared in their psyche 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:54.040 vowels was later used to produce the show, and we 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.680 found contestants who may have slipped through the cracks, people 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.960 whose casting rais this serious questions, and some of those 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:08.000 contestants later met tragic ends. To understand the darker side 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:12.400 of ANTM psychological evaluation, you first have to understand what 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.360 it is, how it works, and the ways it fell short. 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.760 So on part one of this two part episode, that's 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.240 what we're going to break down. Being on reality TV 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.520 can be stressful. The days are long, and you have 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:28.760 a camera in your face from the moment you wake 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:30.880 up at six am to the moment you go to 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.640 sleep at one am. You're completely isolated from your friend's 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.560 family and often the outside world. You're put in bizarre 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:42.079 situations you probably wouldn't otherwise encounter in your real life. 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.720 It's relentless, and in the back of your mind you 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.000 know any little thing you do will be watched and 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.040 judged by millions of people. It's enough to fuck with 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.520 anybody's mental health. That's why psyche vows are a pretty 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.599 standard practice in reality TV casting. From what I understand, 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.040 a m psyche vial involved a written test portion and 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.839 an actual conversation with the psychologist. Here's Cycle twenty four 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:08.200 contestant Gina Turner. 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:10.760 I'm from Minnesota, so I do remember that our psyche 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:15.000 evaluations were conducted and put together by the University of Minnesota. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.800 Gina's referring to the Minnesota Multi Phasic Personality Inventory, or 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:24.319 the MMPI. It's one of the most widely used psychological 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.080 tests in the world. Based on what I've heard, the 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.439 version the models took was probably the MMPI two. It's 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.160 a huge test containing over five hundred true false questions 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.840 where the statements are designed to feel random, even repetitive 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.240 at times, so the person taking it can't easily predict 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.200 what the test is measuring. Here are a few real 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:51.360 questions from the test, you select true or false. Number one, 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:56.520 I like mechanics magazines. Number twenty one At times, I 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:01.560 have very much wanted to leave home. Number one I 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:06.240 believe I am being followed. Number five forty, I have 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.480 gotten angry and broken furniture or dishes when I was drinking. 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.880 And my personal favorite, number one ninety one, I would 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.800 like to be a journalist. The test has a lot 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:23.320 of uses. It can screen for things like depression, personality disorders, 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.600 or emotional distress. We don't know what A ANDTM psychologists 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.319 were really screening for, who they were trying to keep 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.520 out and who they were trying to find, but we 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.319 do know that the MMPI is usually just a starting place. 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.560 The answers alone don't tell you much about a person. 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.640 What really matters is the context. That's why I follow 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.680 up with the mental health professional is critical. In the 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.400 follow up, a person can explain the answers and how 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.880 they relate to their own behaviors. The follow up discussion 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:58.000 shapes how the test is interpreted. But the MMPI seems 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.520 to be just one of the tests A and TM used. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.920 It sounds like the models were also given scenario based 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.800 tests with multiple choice answers. You met Lisa Demado last episode. 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.520 She was first on Cycle five and was later given 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.840 that controversial win on cycle seventeen. Here's what she said 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:17.800 about a ANDTM scenario based test. 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.600 Some of the questions involve scenarios like this, if a 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:27.800 group of people are bowling one person, what do you do? 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.320 It's multiple choice, but it'd be like, I stand up 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.440 for that person, it's none of my business, you know, 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.800 or this or that. It shows the way that you 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.680 would actually react to any given type of situation. 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.120 The psyche valve seemed to be a big part of 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.400 the casting process. The model spent hours taking tests and 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.560 having conversations with psychologists, and they were told it was 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:51.480 for their safety. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.920 When you first go on America's Next Top Model or 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.080 you're getting cast for it, they preface you going to 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:05.360 see a psychologist to make sure that you are prepared 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.400 mentally that you aren't going to be a danger to 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.840 yourself or to anybody else on the show, because you're 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:18.040 gonna be put under insane stress because you're basically taken 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.120 out of your life that you're used to and you're 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.360 kind of, you know, stuck in this whole Truman show. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.640 Experience where you're cut off from anything you know and love, 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.560 and then also because you're gonna then be put on television, 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.080 it's to evaluate to make sure that this is safe 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:34.520 for everyone in yourself. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:36.920 Here's Britney Brower from Cycle four. 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.800 I just remember the psych evaluation, or my understanding of it, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.240 was basically to make sure we were like mentally able 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.800 to go with like extreme like I don't want to 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.640 say mind games, but we're gonna be put through a lot. 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:53.840 Can you handle it? And that's kind of how we 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:55.520 are told, like we need to know that you're not 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.960 going to break down get suicidal. You've got to make 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.760 sure you're not suicidal. And it would just keep asking 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:05.240 the same questions in different ways over and over and 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.080 over again. I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'm not 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:09.560 going to kill myself. Oh my god, No, I'm not 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:10.440 going to harm anybody else. 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.400 Oh my gosh. Hannahcat Jones was on a later season 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.280 Psycle sixteen. She remembers being told about past contestants who 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.520 weren't cut out for the rigors of reality TV. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.200 I was under the impression that the psych evaluation was 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.240 to make sure that we were mentally stable for the show. 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.840 They were like, you are going to experience a lot 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.360 of pressure, and girls in the past have not been 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.400 able to handle that, so we have to make sure 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:41.880 that you're mentally strong enough to go through with what 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:43.440 production will ask of you. 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.440 The contestants were told the psyche vow was about their safety. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.400 A ANDTM wanted to make sure potential contestants wouldn't harm 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.480 themselves or others while on an A and TM set. 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:58.440 But as we explore Top model psyche vow process, I 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.280 want you to ask yourself, what does safety really mean? 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.080 And who's safety were they really worried about? Those are 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.600 the questions my production team thought about a lot. It's 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.120 clear A ANDTM was worried about the contestants' physical safety 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.359 and maybe their own. I'm sure they didn't want anyone 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.919 to haul off in smack Tyra, and I'm sure they 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.280 didn't want to get hit with a wrongful death lawsuit. 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.480 But I do wonder if they were really concerned about 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:28.359 the model's mental and emotional well being. I wanted to 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.639 know more about how A andtm' psyche vowel process worked, 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.280 so I reached out to one of A andtm's longtime psychologists, 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.840 doctor Suzanne Zachary. She told me A and TM was 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.800 an interesting show to work on, but because of her contract, 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.240 she couldn't do an interview for this podcast. So I 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.800 reached out to someone else who knows all about psyche 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:52.040 vows in reality TV. He's as og as you can get. 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.440 Twenty five years ago, psychologists doctor Steven Stein developed one 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.919 of the first tests that measured a mon intelligence. Around 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.360 nineteen ninety nine, he got a call from a guy 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.280 who knew about this test. Who knew a guy who 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.920 was developing a new TV show and he. 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.040 Was looking for a psychologist because he was going to 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:14.399 do some TV show and he asked me if this 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.080 emotional intelligence might be helpful. I didn't know really, but 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.560 I said, well, we can find out what's the show about. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:22.720 And he said, well, they're going to put these people 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.200 on an island and then vote out one each week, 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.680 and that would be the nature of the show. And 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.080 I said, wow, who's going to watch that. 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.040 That show, of course, turned out to be Survivor and 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.720 they used doctor Stein's adapted emotional intelligence tests to cast 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.080 the first season. Since then, doctor Stein has worked on 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:44.040 dozens and dozens of reality shows, including franchises of Big Brother, 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:48.119 The Amazing Race, and The Bachelor. Doctor Stein confirmed that 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.119 when he's working on a show, his first priority is 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.480 to make sure the contestant is a safe choice. 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:58.119 We want to make sure that they have no significant 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.879 psychotic episodes by poor or they're not have some substance abuse, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.840 or they're not very aggressive and have problems with anger. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.880 So there are certain things that we rule out borderline personality. 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:10.359 We want to make sure that it's going to be 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:14.679 a safe environment, both for them and the other cast members. 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:20.200 I asked doctor Stein about the MMPI two, the psychological 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.160 test the models were given, and about how it's used 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.920 in reality TV casting. Doctor Stein uses the same test 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:28.439 when he's conducting psyche valves. 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.400 It's the most widely used mental health test in psychology. 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.760 It's used almost everywhere hospitals and clinics and all that 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:37.280 kind of thing. 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.120 But doctor Stein doesn't only use the MMPI for safety. 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.359 He also has a say in casting, so he looks 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.360 for certain personality types and emotional traits that could make 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:47.960 great TV. 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:50.679 Some of the questions we asked look at things like 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.320 your ability to identify your own emotions, how you're feeling. 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:56.880 Some people have no idea how they're feeling. Some people 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.959 are really tuned into their own feelings. We look at 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.520 how do you express yourself? 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.520 Think about the talking hit confessionals we see on a 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.879 lot of reality TV shows. Cast members need to be 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:12.000 able to talk about their feelings. Doctor Stein's also interested 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.600 in how well a person plays with others, your ability. 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:19.680 To make good relationships with others, your interpersonal skills, your 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.520 ability to make good decisions. Do you get over emotional 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:25.640 and make bad decisions or are you cool, calm and collect. 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.879 And finally, your ability to manage stress, which is a 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.719 big thing in reality shows. You got to sometimes go 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.920 through long periods of time stressful situations, so we want 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.000 to see how well you are at managing the stress 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:38.640 in your life. 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.080 But there is one trait, and he says almost all 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.240 reality stars have across the board. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.800 If you're going to be on a reality show, chances 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:48.840 are about ninety percent you're going to score high on 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:54.200 a narcissism scale. Narcissists want to be on TV. Also, 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.960 the narcissists tend to perform right. They want the attention, 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.679 so when they're on a show, they take up all 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.560 the light and you know, production likes that. They like 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.679 people who are in the limelight and do funny things 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:06.240 and so on. 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.959 Doctor Stein also told me that what he looks for 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.439 isn't universal. What works for one reality show might not 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:15.199 work for another. 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:17.520 So some shows, you know, we like to call them 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.720 a social experiment. Think of The Big Brother and shows 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.560 like that, where you put people in a house or 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.119 in a situation, and there what's important is your ability 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.280 to kind of use your interpersonal skills and maybe even 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.119 be a bit manipulative of your ability to manipulate other people. 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.280 Other shows, maybe cooking shows, you may be looking for 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.480 a different set of skills. You may be looking for 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.720 how they deal under stress because they have a very 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.720 brief time to cook or bake or whatever they're about 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:43.720 to do in the competition. 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:46.720 In the case of A and TM, it's more like 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.040 how well can you pose with a tiger. There are 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.840 a lot of ways tests like this can be useful, 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.840 but it's not a perfect system. It's flawed because well, 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:01.520 it's written and administered by people, and people are biased. 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.680 When you come from a different culture, people who don't 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.200 come from that culture may take how you say things 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:11.480 is being angry or aggressive. 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:23.920 We'll get into that. After the break, we explained how 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:27.440 psyche vowels and reality TV work. They're designed to weed 0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:30.280 out people who might be dangerous to themselves and others. 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.159 And one indication that a person could be dangerous or 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:39.320 violent is anger. You met Angelie preston last episode. She 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:41.840