1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Hi, Curse Up listeners, I know you miss me on 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: your feed. Don't worry. We're working on an all new 3 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: season of Curse Of coming out later this year. In 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: the meantime, if you can't stop thinking about the shocking 5 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: stories you heard about America's Next Top Model, you'll definitely 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: want to check out our new docuseries from E Dirty 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: Rotten Scandals. In the series, you'll hear from the America's 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: Next Top Model participants you heard from on Curse Of, 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: and a few you didn't like former A and TM 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: judge Janis Dickinson. Dirty Rotten Scandals unveils the dark underbelly 11 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: of the long running TV series through the untold stories 12 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: of former contestants, and shows what happens when a golden 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: opportunity for aspiring models unravels into a harrowing saga of exploitation, 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: shattered dreams, and resilience. You can find the two part 15 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: docuseries Dirty Rotten Scandals America's Next Top Model on E Network. 16 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: Check your local TV provider schedule. It's two thousand and 17 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: six and a teenager named Jaslene Gonzalez just sentend her 18 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: on d to be on America's Next Top Model. 19 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 2: I should be America's like Tima, because I devoted myself 20 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: to this every day. It is like a fashion opportunity. 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: I caught up with Jaslene earlier this year. These days, 22 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: she's a preschool teacher and she has the soft spoken 23 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 1: demeanor to match. But back in two thousand and six, 24 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: being on A and TM was her dream. 25 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 3: I come from a Puerto Rican culture and in Chicago, 26 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 3: no one was talling skinny, so I was just like 27 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: the model of the town. 28 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: But there weren't too many high fashion runways in her 29 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: neighborhood in Chicago, so she got exposure elsewhere. 30 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: From a very young age, I grew up on the stage. 31 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 4: I was singing, a dancer, but then naturally I progressed 32 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 4: into becoming a model. I started competing in pageants, and 33 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 4: I also started doing hair shows for. 34 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 3: This Latino woman who owned the hair salon, and I 35 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 3: started to realize we would win every competition, that I 36 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 3: would grace the runway. 37 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: On people at school and in her neighborhood. Also started 38 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: to realize there was something special about Jasleen. Remember this 39 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: was also in an era where if you were a tall, 40 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: pretty girl, people would tell you should. 41 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 3: Be on America's Next Top Model, you show audition for 42 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 3: America's Next Top Model. 43 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: That's all I ever heard about. So she did. Jaslene 44 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: got her dad to rent a car and she drove 45 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: six hours from Chicago to the nearest audition in Cleveland. 46 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: And when she got there, oh, Jaslen was ready. 47 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 3: I remember my first opportunity to be exposed to the camera. 48 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: I had to step out when they called my name, 49 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 3: saved my name, my height. 50 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: And where I'm from. 51 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: So I was preparing myself mentally, this is going to 52 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 3: be the time to shine. I said my name, my heights, 53 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 3: and where I'm from, like the most Choshawk diva ever. 54 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: When Jaslen started telling me about her semi finals audition, 55 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: her preschool teacher persona melted away. She was filled with 56 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: the energy I remember from A ANDTM. I could see 57 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: the energy that got her into the semifinals. 58 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: The next day, I had to stay at a hotel 59 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 3: and that was where the casting director was actually present, 60 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: which was Michelle Mack. And she had a camera in 61 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 3: front of her and she had asked each and every girl, 62 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: when you come up to me, consider this camera Tyra Banks, 63 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 3: and you gotta tell Tyra Banks why you want to 64 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 3: be on America's next top model. So the girls were 65 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 3: all coming up and they were all giving a sobbing story. 66 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 3: I mean I'm talking about every girl was crying, she 67 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: had issues, she had this. So I'm in my mind 68 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: like no, no, no, no no. I finally get off 69 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: and I started telling the shell mark and the camera 70 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: that I should be America's next toup Mara because I 71 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 3: got the move, I got the attitude. I can oh 72 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: say this and that, and I was so energetic like 73 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 3: I had lifted something up in that room that I 74 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: promise you God is my witness. Every girl after started 75 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 3: talking like me. 76 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: Jsleen's performance landed her in front of the Queen and 77 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: her trusted advisors. 78 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 3: Hi, my name is Chae Clean. 79 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: I am nineteen years old. 80 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 3: Did you learn all that in Catholic school? 81 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: Okay? 82 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 3: That come to tray so. 83 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: Many different lines? 84 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: Give me some looks? What looks can you? 85 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 5: Ptra? 86 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: I can give you next twenty one? Next, what else? 87 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: Jessleen nailed her audition in front of Tyra and the Jays, 88 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: But once she left that room, she had another very 89 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,799 Speaker 1: important room to go into. Here's longtime ANTM creative director 90 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,239 Speaker 1: and judge j Manuel explaining what happened to the wannabe 91 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: contestants after they left the judging panel. 92 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 6: The girls come in and meet with Miss Jay Tyra 93 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 6: and myself, but they go out of our room and 94 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 6: they literally go into three other rooms. We're three independent psychologists. 95 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 6: They get an evaluation. 96 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: Jay Manuel is talking about the psychological evaluation. Everyone to 97 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: be contestant had to go through a series of tests 98 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: and conversations with the psychologists to determine if they were 99 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: mentally fit enough to be on the show. 100 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 6: Had a red, an orange, and a green, and so 101 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 6: the green was obviously totally mentally capable to be on 102 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 6: the show, and then Orange and then red were not 103 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 6: allowed to be on the show. 104 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: Jaslene, like all the other contestants, answered a series of questions. 105 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: They were asked about their background, their relationships, their struggles. 106 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: After Jaslene met with the show psychologists, she and all 107 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: the other finalists were gathered to hear Tyra make her 108 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: final selections. This was the last cut to see who 109 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: would officially be joining the cast of A and TM 110 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: Cycle seven. 111 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 3: The last girl that will join these twelve lucky ladies over. 112 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: Here is Jaslene. Wait and waited and waited. If other 113 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: names were called Jaslene didn't make the cut. 114 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 3: She counted down the girls that were going to go 115 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: into the house, and I was not in that pool. 116 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 3: I'm giving up. We shouldn't give up. I was very 117 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:32,119 Speaker 3: upset and kind of dumbfounded by those results. I thought 118 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: I was going to make it into the house. 119 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: When Jaslene got cut, she was so distraught she couldn't 120 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: even bring herself to do her exit interview. 121 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: They eventually had to bring a producer to me to 122 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 3: sit me down and tell me the reason why I 123 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 3: didn't get picked. 124 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: The producer told her it wasn't her runway walk that 125 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: got her cut. It wasn't about her not looking good 126 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: in photos. It wasn't that she didn't have that it factor. 127 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: She did. Jaslene was cut because of something she told 128 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: the show psychologist. Want to beyond Some, want to beyond Some. 129 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. I'm 130 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: Bridget Armstrong. Every ANTM hopeful had to undergo a psychological 131 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: evaluation before being cast on the show. For many, it 132 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: was just a long, tedious bump on the way to 133 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: their dream. But for Jaslene Gonzales, it was the thing 134 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: that got her sent home. Here's what she shared with 135 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: A ANDTM psychologists. 136 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: I was very open and explicit about my relationship with 137 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 3: my boyfriend at the time. I spoke about the highs 138 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 3: and lows that I was going through. 139 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: But to the psychologists, it sounded like more than highs 140 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: and lows. It sounded like Jaslene was in danger. 141 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 3: The therapist had overruled Tyra Binks's decision to put me 142 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 3: into the house because I was in an abusive relationship. 143 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: That was the first time I had ever heard that 144 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: I was in a domestic violence situation. 145 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: Jaslene told the psychologist that her boyfriend was controlling and jealous. 146 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: He would accuse her of cheating and go through her phone, 147 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: and sometimes the abuse turned physical. But rather than putting 148 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: her in the house and making her abusive relationship a 149 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: storyline or just sending her home with no explanation at all, 150 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: Jaslene says A and TM producers made a deal with her. 151 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 3: They were like, you know, if you get out of 152 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 3: that relationship, if you get help, we would guarantee your 153 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 3: spot back into the house. And so I underwent six 154 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 3: months of therapy to understand what domestic violence is, how 155 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: to get out of it, built some confidence in so 156 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 3: once I came back, I auditioned. 157 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 1: And the rest is history. 158 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 3: America's Next Top Model. 159 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: Yes, Jessie, I didn't make it the first time, but 160 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: now look at me. 161 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: I'm America's next Top Model. I'm a coverer and I 162 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: think that shows to all young women. If you have 163 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 3: that drive, keep going. 164 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: Jessie made it into the house on cycle eight and 165 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: won the whole thing. She told me A and TM 166 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: wasn't just a show she won or her ticket into 167 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: the modeling industry. It was a lifeline. 168 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: I didn't see those bad patterns, bad behavior as an 169 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 3: abusers profile, so I would have seen my ex boyfriend 170 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: as someone just normal treating me normal. 171 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 2: You know. 172 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 3: So there was this new awareness that now I cary 173 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 3: Eve him throughout my life. To this day, I feel 174 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 3: like being on america Next Top Model actually saved my life. 175 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: Jazzleene's experience with the A and TM psyche vow is 176 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: an example of how it worked at its best, But 177 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: Jazzleene's story is rare. For a lot of contestants, it 178 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: was just an annoying thing they had to do to 179 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: get on the show. But there are some who say 180 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: this psyche vow was the beginning of their A and 181 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: TM trauma and others who say it was biased and flawed. 182 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: When we started looking into the psyche vow we thought 183 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: we were just exploring a little known aspect of A 184 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: andtm's casting process. We thought we would do one episode 185 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: about how it worked and how it was used on 186 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: the show. But when we scratched beneath the surface, we 187 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: figured out there was a lot more to this story. 188 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: Contestants say the personal trauma they shared in their psyche 189 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: vowels was later used to produce the show, and we 190 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: found contestants who may have slipped through the cracks, people 191 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: whose casting rais this serious questions, and some of those 192 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: contestants later met tragic ends. To understand the darker side 193 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: of ANTM psychological evaluation, you first have to understand what 194 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: it is, how it works, and the ways it fell short. 195 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: So on part one of this two part episode, that's 196 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: what we're going to break down. Being on reality TV 197 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: can be stressful. The days are long, and you have 198 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: a camera in your face from the moment you wake 199 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: up at six am to the moment you go to 200 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: sleep at one am. You're completely isolated from your friend's 201 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: family and often the outside world. You're put in bizarre 202 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: situations you probably wouldn't otherwise encounter in your real life. 203 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: It's relentless, and in the back of your mind you 204 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: know any little thing you do will be watched and 205 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: judged by millions of people. It's enough to fuck with 206 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: anybody's mental health. That's why psyche vows are a pretty 207 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,599 Speaker 1: standard practice in reality TV casting. From what I understand, 208 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: a m psyche vial involved a written test portion and 209 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 1: an actual conversation with the psychologist. Here's Cycle twenty four 210 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: contestant Gina Turner. 211 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 7: I'm from Minnesota, so I do remember that our psyche 212 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 7: evaluations were conducted and put together by the University of Minnesota. 213 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: Gina's referring to the Minnesota Multi Phasic Personality Inventory, or 214 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: the MMPI. It's one of the most widely used psychological 215 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: tests in the world. Based on what I've heard, the 216 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: version the models took was probably the MMPI two. It's 217 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: a huge test containing over five hundred true false questions 218 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: where the statements are designed to feel random, even repetitive 219 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: at times, so the person taking it can't easily predict 220 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: what the test is measuring. Here are a few real 221 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: questions from the test, you select true or false. Number one, 222 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: I like mechanics magazines. Number twenty one At times, I 223 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: have very much wanted to leave home. Number one I 224 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: believe I am being followed. Number five forty, I have 225 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: gotten angry and broken furniture or dishes when I was drinking. 226 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: And my personal favorite, number one ninety one, I would 227 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: like to be a journalist. The test has a lot 228 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: of uses. It can screen for things like depression, personality disorders, 229 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: or emotional distress. We don't know what A ANDTM psychologists 230 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: were really screening for, who they were trying to keep 231 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: out and who they were trying to find, but we 232 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: do know that the MMPI is usually just a starting place. 233 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: The answers alone don't tell you much about a person. 234 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: What really matters is the context. That's why I follow 235 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: up with the mental health professional is critical. In the 236 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: follow up, a person can explain the answers and how 237 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: they relate to their own behaviors. The follow up discussion 238 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: shapes how the test is interpreted. But the MMPI seems 239 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: to be just one of the tests A and TM used. 240 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: It sounds like the models were also given scenario based 241 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: tests with multiple choice answers. You met Lisa Demado last episode. 242 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: She was first on Cycle five and was later given 243 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: that controversial win on cycle seventeen. Here's what she said 244 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: about a ANDTM scenario based test. 245 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 8: Some of the questions involve scenarios like this, if a 246 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 8: group of people are bowling one person, what do you do? 247 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 8: It's multiple choice, but it'd be like, I stand up 248 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 8: for that person, it's none of my business, you know, 249 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 8: or this or that. It shows the way that you 250 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 8: would actually react to any given type of situation. 251 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: The psyche valve seemed to be a big part of 252 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: the casting process. The model spent hours taking tests and 253 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: having conversations with psychologists, and they were told it was 254 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: for their safety. 255 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 8: When you first go on America's Next Top Model or 256 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 8: you're getting cast for it, they preface you going to 257 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 8: see a psychologist to make sure that you are prepared 258 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 8: mentally that you aren't going to be a danger to 259 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 8: yourself or to anybody else on the show, because you're 260 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 8: gonna be put under insane stress because you're basically taken 261 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 8: out of your life that you're used to and you're 262 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 8: kind of, you know, stuck in this whole Truman show. 263 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 8: Experience where you're cut off from anything you know and love, 264 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 8: and then also because you're gonna then be put on television, 265 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 8: it's to evaluate to make sure that this is safe 266 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 8: for everyone in yourself. 267 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: Here's Britney Brower from Cycle four. 268 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 9: I just remember the psych evaluation, or my understanding of it, 269 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 9: was basically to make sure we were like mentally able 270 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 9: to go with like extreme like I don't want to 271 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 9: say mind games, but we're gonna be put through a lot. 272 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 9: Can you handle it? And that's kind of how we 273 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 9: are told, like we need to know that you're not 274 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 9: going to break down get suicidal. You've got to make 275 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 9: sure you're not suicidal. And it would just keep asking 276 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 9: the same questions in different ways over and over and 277 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 9: over again. I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'm not 278 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 9: going to kill myself. Oh my god, No, I'm not 279 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 9: going to harm anybody else. 280 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Hannahcat Jones was on a later season 281 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: Psycle sixteen. She remembers being told about past contestants who 282 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: weren't cut out for the rigors of reality TV. 283 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 10: I was under the impression that the psych evaluation was 284 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 10: to make sure that we were mentally stable for the show. 285 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 10: They were like, you are going to experience a lot 286 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 10: of pressure, and girls in the past have not been 287 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 10: able to handle that, so we have to make sure 288 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 10: that you're mentally strong enough to go through with what 289 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 10: production will ask of you. 290 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: The contestants were told the psyche vow was about their safety. 291 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: A ANDTM wanted to make sure potential contestants wouldn't harm 292 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: themselves or others while on an A and TM set. 293 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: But as we explore Top model psyche vow process, I 294 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: want you to ask yourself, what does safety really mean? 295 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: And who's safety were they really worried about? Those are 296 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: the questions my production team thought about a lot. It's 297 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: clear A ANDTM was worried about the contestants' physical safety 298 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: and maybe their own. I'm sure they didn't want anyone 299 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: to haul off in smack Tyra, and I'm sure they 300 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: didn't want to get hit with a wrongful death lawsuit. 301 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: But I do wonder if they were really concerned about 302 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: the model's mental and emotional well being. I wanted to 303 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: know more about how A andtm' psyche vowel process worked, 304 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: so I reached out to one of A andtm's longtime psychologists, 305 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: doctor Suzanne Zachary. She told me A and TM was 306 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: an interesting show to work on, but because of her contract, 307 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: she couldn't do an interview for this podcast. So I 308 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: reached out to someone else who knows all about psyche 309 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: vows in reality TV. He's as og as you can get. 310 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: Twenty five years ago, psychologists doctor Steven Stein developed one 311 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: of the first tests that measured a mon intelligence. Around 312 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, he got a call from a guy 313 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: who knew about this test. Who knew a guy who 314 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: was developing a new TV show and he. 315 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 5: Was looking for a psychologist because he was going to 316 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 5: do some TV show and he asked me if this 317 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 5: emotional intelligence might be helpful. I didn't know really, but 318 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 5: I said, well, we can find out what's the show about. 319 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 5: And he said, well, they're going to put these people 320 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 5: on an island and then vote out one each week, 321 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 5: and that would be the nature of the show. And 322 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 5: I said, wow, who's going to watch that. 323 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: That show, of course, turned out to be Survivor and 324 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: they used doctor Stein's adapted emotional intelligence tests to cast 325 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: the first season. Since then, doctor Stein has worked on 326 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of reality shows, including franchises of Big Brother, 327 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: The Amazing Race, and The Bachelor. Doctor Stein confirmed that 328 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: when he's working on a show, his first priority is 329 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: to make sure the contestant is a safe choice. 330 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 5: We want to make sure that they have no significant 331 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 5: psychotic episodes by poor or they're not have some substance abuse, 332 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 5: or they're not very aggressive and have problems with anger. 333 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 5: So there are certain things that we rule out borderline personality. 334 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 5: We want to make sure that it's going to be 335 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 5: a safe environment, both for them and the other cast members. 336 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: I asked doctor Stein about the MMPI two, the psychological 337 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: test the models were given, and about how it's used 338 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: in reality TV casting. Doctor Stein uses the same test 339 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: when he's conducting psyche valves. 340 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 5: It's the most widely used mental health test in psychology. 341 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 5: It's used almost everywhere hospitals and clinics and all that 342 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 5: kind of thing. 343 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: But doctor Stein doesn't only use the MMPI for safety. 344 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: He also has a say in casting, so he looks 345 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: for certain personality types and emotional traits that could make 346 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: great TV. 347 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 5: Some of the questions we asked look at things like 348 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 5: your ability to identify your own emotions, how you're feeling. 349 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 5: Some people have no idea how they're feeling. Some people 350 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,959 Speaker 5: are really tuned into their own feelings. We look at 351 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 5: how do you express yourself? 352 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: Think about the talking hit confessionals we see on a 353 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: lot of reality TV shows. Cast members need to be 354 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: able to talk about their feelings. Doctor Stein's also interested 355 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: in how well a person plays with others, your ability. 356 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 5: To make good relationships with others, your interpersonal skills, your 357 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 5: ability to make good decisions. Do you get over emotional 358 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 5: and make bad decisions or are you cool, calm and collect. 359 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 5: And finally, your ability to manage stress, which is a 360 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 5: big thing in reality shows. You got to sometimes go 361 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 5: through long periods of time stressful situations, so we want 362 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 5: to see how well you are at managing the stress 363 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 5: in your life. 364 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: But there is one trait, and he says almost all 365 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: reality stars have across the board. 366 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 5: If you're going to be on a reality show, chances 367 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 5: are about ninety percent you're going to score high on 368 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 5: a narcissism scale. Narcissists want to be on TV. Also, 369 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 5: the narcissists tend to perform right. They want the attention, 370 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 5: so when they're on a show, they take up all 371 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 5: the light and you know, production likes that. They like 372 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 5: people who are in the limelight and do funny things 373 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 5: and so on. 374 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 1: Doctor Stein also told me that what he looks for 375 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: isn't universal. What works for one reality show might not 376 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: work for another. 377 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 5: So some shows, you know, we like to call them 378 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 5: a social experiment. Think of The Big Brother and shows 379 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 5: like that, where you put people in a house or 380 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 5: in a situation, and there what's important is your ability 381 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 5: to kind of use your interpersonal skills and maybe even 382 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 5: be a bit manipulative of your ability to manipulate other people. 383 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 5: Other shows, maybe cooking shows, you may be looking for 384 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 5: a different set of skills. You may be looking for 385 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 5: how they deal under stress because they have a very 386 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 5: brief time to cook or bake or whatever they're about 387 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 5: to do in the competition. 388 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: In the case of A and TM, it's more like 389 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: how well can you pose with a tiger. There are 390 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: a lot of ways tests like this can be useful, 391 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: but it's not a perfect system. It's flawed because well, 392 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: it's written and administered by people, and people are biased. 393 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 11: When you come from a different culture, people who don't 394 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 11: come from that culture may take how you say things 395 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 11: is being angry or aggressive. 396 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: We'll get into that. After the break, we explained how 397 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: psyche vowels and reality TV work. They're designed to weed 398 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: out people who might be dangerous to themselves and others. 399 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: And one indication that a person could be dangerous or 400 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: violent is anger. You met Angelie preston last episode. She 401 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: was the one who got her win on All Stars revoked. 402 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: On her first appearance on ANTM, she was sent home. 403 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: During the Cycle twelve audition process. She got into it 404 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: with another semi finalist named Sandra. Here's tape of their 405 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: argument problem because. 406 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 11: Soandra looked at me, she now you want to row 407 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 11: your eyes, like you know, like. 408 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 3: Don't get me started long. 409 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 2: Now you don't have any class, I have no time. 410 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: The two models called each other names, and Angelie gave 411 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: her the good old talk to the hand. But by 412 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: today's standards, it's all pretty tame. It certainly doesn't make 413 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: Angelie seem volatile or mentally unstable, but it still got 414 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: her cut. 415 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 11: The casting director was like, this is not the end. 416 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 11: We just want you to take anger management classes because 417 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 11: we just want you to get you know, your anger 418 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 11: and check. And I don't think I was necessarily angry. 419 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 11: I think what it was is the way I expressed myself. 420 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 11: When you come from a different culture, then you're interacting 421 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 11: with people who don't come from that culture, they may 422 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 11: take how you say things is being angry or aggressive, 423 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 11: and I guess there were concerns that I was possibly 424 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 11: going to hit someone in the house. 425 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: Angeline says there was even an opportunity to get into 426 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: a physical altercation with her op when her rival's name 427 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: got called to join the cast. That girl intentionally shoulder 428 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: checked Angelie. 429 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 11: She bumped me going over to Tyra, and like everybody 430 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 11: thought I was gonna hit her and I didn't. 431 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: So I think it was like. 432 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 11: The psychiatrist was telling them based on the little test 433 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 11: that we take, oh she's violin or blah blah blah, 434 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 11: but you're not seeing that when this girl bumped me, 435 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 11: because I could have went after her, but I didn't 436 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 11: because you know, I'll be talking, I'll be I'll be raw, raw, 437 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 11: but I'm really a softie, like I'm not gonna with 438 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 11: hit nobody. 439 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: Angelie took A and TM's advice and went to anger 440 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 1: management classes. She had to pay for it herself. When 441 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: she came back for cycle fourteen, she was cast on 442 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: the show but Angelie, this wasn't the only contestant who 443 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: was told to go to Anger Management before making it 444 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: into the A and TM House. Tiffany, we were rooting 445 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: for you. Richardson originally auditioned for Cycle three. She made 446 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: it to the semi finals and on the first episode 447 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: got into a good old fashioned bar fight when some 448 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: random woman poured a drink on her during a dance battle. 449 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 12: Bitch for beer on my Wii. 450 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 3: So I'm thinking, don't fight, do it? 451 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 5: You know? 452 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 12: Everything was I had the evil twin and the good one, 453 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 12: so as we all know the evil one one. 454 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: As soon as I turn around, I hear classes breaking all. No, 455 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: she did not unbelievable just my opinion, but I always 456 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: thought that fight looked stage like the producers had an 457 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: idea of how Tiffany might react and set her up 458 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: to have some drama on the first episode. Tiffany was 459 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: sent home during the Cycle three semifinals. She talked about 460 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: this with Oliver to twenty twenty two. He's a content 461 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: creator and top model super fan. During the pandemic, he 462 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: started interviewing dozens of antim models on his personal channels, 463 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: and Oliver is a consulting producer on this podcast. Here's 464 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: what Tiffany told him. I didn't pass the mental test 465 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: the first time. 466 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 12: The questions that was asking was so weird, like if 467 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 12: the police pull you over and you got such such 468 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 12: with it, is you gonna tell the truth or is 469 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 12: you gonna stag it? And so they put all these 470 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 12: questions and then if you don't answer them correctly, they 471 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 12: make you think you crazy. So I felt like I 472 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 12: shouldn't even told the truth because I thought by telling 473 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 12: the truth they would. 474 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: Appreciate me more. But I didn't get picked. 475 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 12: Before I left, producers whispered to me and they were 476 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 12: saying things looked by the anger management and different stuff 477 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 12: like that. So I already kind of had it in 478 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 12: my brain that I was going back to the forth 479 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 12: and they say, you go get your anger management. Well, 480 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 12: welcome to full cycle. 481 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: Let me say this. We don't know if any other 482 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: contestants were sent to anger management based on the psyche bows. 483 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: These are just women who've spoken publicly about their experience. 484 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: We also don't know about the models who were flagged 485 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: and didn't get a second chance. It's clear Tyra and 486 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: the producers wanted Tiffany and Angelie on the show, and 487 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: rightfully so. They gave us some of A and TM's 488 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: most memorable moments. But before they got there, A and 489 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: TM told them to get anger management. Now here's the 490 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: thing about anger. It's subjective. Everyone gets angry, but not 491 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: everyone's anger is deemed violent or dangerous. The elephant in 492 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: the room here is that Angelie and Tiffany are both 493 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: black and they were the ones who were told to 494 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: get anger management before they got cast on the show, 495 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: which is ironic for a show that gave a lot 496 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: of airtime to contestants angry outbursts. Remember Alease from cycle one, 497 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: whose rant you heard on episode two she called Giselle 498 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: a worthless cunt whose parents should be ashamed of her. 499 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: And Jennifer Frost from cycle three, who pushed another contestant 500 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: on camera. I don't know him the other way. 501 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 3: Don't ever touch me again, or else you will get 502 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 3: knocked out. 503 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: Oh I'd like to see it god. And what about 504 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: Lauren Utter from cycle ten, who stood on a chair 505 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: and screamed at another contestant during an argument. On a 506 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: later episode, she told another contestant she hopes they choke 507 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: on their coffee. Here's your call, coffee a big lady. 508 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 3: You are not even what choke. 509 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: On it or the conflict between Romeo and Adam on 510 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: cycle twenty one, I don't understand that. 511 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 13: Guys, there's a zero percent chance I punched you right now, 512 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 13: So I don't know if you're if it's. 513 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: Like punch me, it's so punched me, so punched me, 514 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: so punch me, so punch so punch me. I'm not 515 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: gonna punch you a punch me Romeo, head budded Adam, 516 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: Romeo's crazy. 517 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 12: He's a little cannon you head buddy to somebody, that 518 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 12: sounds pretty angry to me. 519 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: And there are other examples. But as far as we know, 520 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: whatever those contestants told psychologists wasn't enough to get them 521 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: flagged as too angry to be on the show, and 522 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: that raises concerns about the psychologists who are evaluating the candidates. 523 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: There's research that shows that at least two thirds of 524 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: health care providers, including mental health professionals, demonstrate implicit bias 525 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: against marginalized groups. Not only that, the MMPI two the 526 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: tests the models were given, has been widely criticized for 527 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: being biased. When it was originally developed in the forties, 528 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: The control group they based the test on was made 529 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: up of mostly young, white, married people from Minnesota. Even 530 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: after revisions, researchers have found that black test takers often 531 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: score higher on certain scales like paranoia, not necessarily because 532 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: of mental illness, but because of the effect of lived 533 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: realities like racism and discrimination. We don't know for sure 534 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: if bias played a role in Tiffany and Angelie being 535 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: sent to anger Management. Whatever the reason, the A and 536 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: TM psychologists thought Tiffany and Angelie didn't have the temperament 537 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: for the competition, but they weren't told to seek therapy 538 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: to talk about the underlying issues that could be making 539 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: them angry. A and TM advised them to go to 540 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: anger management, which is a glorified band aid for deeper problems, 541 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: and that band aid seemed to work well enough for 542 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: A and TM. The next time Angelie pressed an audition, 543 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: she knew exactly what the psychologist wanted to hear. 544 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 11: I was lying on the psychic vow like I can't 545 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 11: let these motherfuckers they come crazy. 546 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: After the break, we get into the other blind spot 547 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: of the psyche vow. After talking to Angelie, preston myself, 548 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: I don't think she was violent I don't even think 549 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: she's angry. I think she was confrontational. After Angelie went 550 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: to Anger Management, she auditioned for A and TM again, 551 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: and this time she knew what to say. 552 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,239 Speaker 11: One of the things the psychiatrist pointed out after I 553 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 11: was eliminated in the first episode was my psych results. 554 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 11: I feel like I was too honest on Psychle twelve. 555 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 11: I feel like I was too honest with the questions. 556 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 11: I was like, Okay, now I know when I'll go 557 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 11: back on again. I got to tighten up. I can't 558 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 11: be as honest because if I'm honest, then that could 559 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 11: possibly hurt my opportunity again. 560 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: So Angelie did what she needed to do to get cast. 561 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 11: I was lying on the psychic valve, like I can't 562 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 11: let these motherfuckers they come crazy. 563 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 3: And you know what's funny now that I'm thinking. 564 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 1: About it, because you meet with the psychiatrist. 565 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 11: So I remember her saying, your answers from the first 566 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 11: time you auditioned to now are so different, and in 567 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 11: my mom I'm. 568 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: Like, please, Like I knew what to say on this one. 569 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: This time, Angelie gave the answers she thought would get 570 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: her on the show, but it wasn't necessarily the truth. 571 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: Here's what Psychle twenty four is. Gina Turner told me 572 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: about her psyche bow. 573 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 14: I'm gonna be completely fucking honest with you. 574 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 3: I lied on my fucking test. 575 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 14: It would be like, if Johnny was running after you 576 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 14: with a knife, what would you do? A Stand there 577 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 14: and let him stab you, B run the opposite direction. 578 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 14: Three grab a weapon and defend yourself, or four commit 579 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 14: suicide or like something stupid. Right, my answer would be, see, 580 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 14: I'm gonna grab a weapon and defend myself. Johnny gotta go. 581 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 7: But I knew that that's probably not the way I 582 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 7: wanted to be represented. I didn't really want them to know, 583 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 7: like exactly who I was and how I would. 584 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 3: Respond to every scenario. 585 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 7: So like some things I was stressful with, but the 586 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 7: ones that I was like, hmm, this question seems a 587 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 7: little bit like too specific. I was like, let me 588 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 7: go ahead and like monitor my answer just a little bit. 589 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: We don't know what A and TM psychologists were really 590 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: looking for, but some contestants say they just gave the 591 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: answers that they thought would get them past the psyche val. 592 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: We don't know if it made a difference or not. 593 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: What we know is that they got cast on the show. 594 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: I want to tell you about one more case of 595 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: a contestant telling A and TM psychologists something that wasn't true. 596 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: Remember Jaslene, who you heard from at the top of 597 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: this episode. She was red flagged by psychologists because she 598 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: was in an abusive relationship. They sent her away, advised 599 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: her to go to therapy, and told her to come 600 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: back once she left that relationship. A and TM loved 601 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: a Cinderella story where a girl with a traumatic background 602 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: is transformed by the magic of Tyra Banks. When Jaslene 603 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: came back to audition again, she told Tyra and A 604 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: and TM producers she left that relationship. It was what 605 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: they wanted to hear, but it wasn't true. This is dazzling. 606 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: A year after her win on Tyra's talk. 607 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 2: Show, I have a confession. I was with my ex 608 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: boyfriend for four years. He did hit me and you know, 609 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: went through emotional abuse, but I ended up going back 610 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 2: to him. 611 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: A and TM didn't use her abusive relationship as a storyline, 612 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: but Tyra and her production company found a way to 613 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: get some mileage out of it. In this incredibly cringy 614 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:31,959 Speaker 1: segment of the Tyra Show. 615 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 15: So after that, we're, you know, off camera, we're talking 616 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 15: and I'm like, I'm so proud of you. You got out 617 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 15: of that bad relationship, and you're like, yeah, Mama, Tyra, 618 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 15: I got out. So how did you feel being not 619 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 15: truthful with me and knowing that she were still with him? 620 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 2: It hurted me a lot, actually, like it was a 621 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 2: deep secret. 622 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 3: You know, it's gonna be very hard. 623 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. 624 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 2: I do want to their baby crime. 625 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 15: No, it's not a baby cry, Jesline, that's not a 626 00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 15: baby cry. 627 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 3: This is real. It's okay. 628 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 2: I respect you so much and I've fancience so much 629 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 2: You've done from you, Cyril, and I am willing to 630 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 2: stand here and accept my mistake. 631 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 15: I don't even think it makes you a liar, because 632 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 15: part of abuse is living in this weird world and 633 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 15: almost lying to yourself. I think you were still in 634 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 15: that cycle of hell. So I forgive you, forget. 635 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: I've watched this clip again and again, and it's so 636 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: strange that it's framed as Jazzline apologizing to Tyra. Do 637 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: y'all really think Tyra didn't know before this moment? 638 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 3: You went yeah, so. 639 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 2: He did it said yeah, I was destinally one of 640 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: those where I just stood back and I was like, no, 641 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 2: you know what, like, it's not gonna happen no more. 642 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 15: So where are you now with him? Are you really 643 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 15: broken up? 644 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: Or are you Yeah? 645 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 3: I live in New York. 646 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: I want to be clear, I'm not blaming Jazzleene here. 647 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: Abuse is a cycle, and it usually takes survivors multiple 648 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: tries to leave for good if they are Jaslene eventually 649 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: ended the relationship after her win, and she does credit 650 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: the show with helping her leave, But the point is 651 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: she told the psychologists what they wanted to hear and 652 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: it worked. At the beginning of this episode, we heard 653 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: from contestants who were told the psyche vowl was for 654 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: their own safety, but how could a process with these 655 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: glaring shortcomings really keep them safe. The portion of the 656 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: psyche vow that was done in the name of safety 657 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: seemed in part to be about covering Antm's own ass. 658 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: They didn't want someone who would take their own life 659 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: on the show or six months after. They didn't want 660 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: someone who would walk off set when production got too intense. 661 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: They didn't want someone who might attack a union protected 662 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: crew member. Basically, they didn't want someone who would be 663 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,760 Speaker 1: a liability to the show. But here's where the psyche 664 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: vow gets really interesting. Because they did want people with 665 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: traumatic backgrounds. It gave them something to use to create storylines. 666 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: Courtney Davies was on Cycle thirteen. She was also in 667 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: an abusive relationship before auditioning for A and TM. She 668 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,240 Speaker 1: shared this with the show psychologist, and she told Oliver 669 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: Twigs that on her first day on set, that's all 670 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: the producers wanted to talk to her about. 671 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 13: Like the very first time I walked out, they were like, 672 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 13: tell us about your abusive relationship. I just wanted to 673 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 13: be me and not have that be a part of 674 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 13: my story, Like they wanted me to be the victim 675 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 13: and like the damaged girl. 676 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: Courtney wouldn't cooperate. She refused to talk about it. But 677 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: there were contestants who were blindsided with their trauma on camera, 678 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: like Marvita Washington. Marvita originally auditioned for Cycle nine. In 679 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: her psyche vow, she shared she was a survivor of 680 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: childhood sexual abuse, and the producers clearly shared that with 681 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: Tyra so she could bring it up on camera. Here's 682 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,760 Speaker 1: Marvita Cycle nine audition. I don't even know why I'm crying. 683 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:02,720 Speaker 1: I don't even cry. 684 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 15: I hear that you've been through a lot, a lot, 685 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 15: a lot of stuff in your life. Tell me about 686 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 15: growing up and all the things that she went through 687 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 15: and all the tragedy I went. 688 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,240 Speaker 1: Through a lot as a kid. 689 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 12: I've been just passed off to family members a lot, 690 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 12: so I was always having to. 691 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: Adapt to new people, new places. 692 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 3: A lot of people have done a lot of bad 693 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 3: things to me. 694 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 15: Why don't you talk about them? 695 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 3: I was molested, rape, So much has happened to you. 696 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 15: What makes you strong enough to still stand here right 697 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 15: now in front of us? 698 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: After Tyra asked her these invasive questions, Marveita wasn't selected 699 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 1: for cycle nine. She was told to go to therapy, 700 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: which she did. When she came back to audition for 701 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: cycle ten, she made it onto the show, where her 702 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: childhood abuse was a part of her storyline. Marveita isn't 703 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: the only contestant who said the deep personal trauma they 704 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: shared in their psyche vow was later used by producers 705 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: to manipulate them for the cameras. On the next episode, 706 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: we'll get into the hidden use of the psychological evaluation. 707 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: Contestants were told the psyche vow was for their safety 708 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: and screening purposes, but many say it was used for 709 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: a lot more than that. 710 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 7: But I just remember, for hours and hours on Andy 711 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 7: just kept focusing on me being suicidal, and it's like, 712 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 7: I just want to talk about something happy. 713 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 3: I don't want to talk about growing up in foster care. 714 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: And it was just really fucked up. I was exhausted. 715 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 7: I was physically so exhausted, and I remember putting my 716 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 7: handsma it and I was like, I don't want to 717 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 7: talk about it anymore. 718 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 10: And I'm crying. 719 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 7: But that is literally the clip that they used for 720 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 7: how I emotionally responded for losing the competition. 721 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 1: Then we'll talk about the contestants who's casting raises serious 722 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: questions about the A and TM psyche val contestants whose 723 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: lives took a dark turn once the show ended. Thanks 724 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: for listening to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. 725 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: We really appreciate the support. We'd love for you to 726 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: really show your support by subscribing to our show on 727 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, and don't forget to leave us a five 728 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: star rating and review. If you love the show, tell 729 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: your group, chat, your co workers, your friends, your mama 730 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: to check us out, and if you don't, maybe keep 731 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: that one to yourself. Thanks again to all of our listeners. 732 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: The Curse of America's Next Top Model is a production 733 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in 734 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by 735 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: Nancy Glass, hosted and senior produced by me Bridget Armstrong. 736 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: Our story editor is Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben 737 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: Fetterman and Andrea Denning. Associate producers are Alisha Key, Kristin Melcriy, 738 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 1: and Curry Richmond. Consulting producers are Oliver TwixT and Kate Taylor. 739 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio 740 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: editing and mixing by Andrew Callaway and Matt del Vechio. 741 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: The Curse of America's Next Top Model theme music was 742 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by mid Music 743 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: Special Thanks to everyone we interviewed for this podcast, especially 744 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 1: the models for sharing their stories. And for more podcasts 745 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 746 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Also check out the Glass podcast 747 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: Instagram at Glass Podcasts for curse of America's next top model, 748 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:32,919 Speaker 1: behind the scenes content and more.