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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: Worst nightmare.

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Speaker 3: You have no control, you're trapped, you're actually belted in,

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Speaker 3: you can't move, and you find out there is a

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Speaker 3: life or deathmatch fight going on in the cockpit of

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Speaker 3: the plane.

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Speaker 2: You're just a passenger. You can't do a thing. But

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Speaker 2: it's not really a nightmare. It happened.

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Speaker 3: It happened where a pilot goes into the cockpit and

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Speaker 3: tries to bring the plane down.

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Speaker 2: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 3: and on Serious XM one eleven.

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Speaker 2: What happened? Listen to give you a heads up.

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Speaker 4: We've got the kind to try to shut into or

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Speaker 4: down the cockpit.

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Speaker 5: It was supposed to be a typical Sunday night flight

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Speaker 5: from Everett, Washington to San Francisco. It was anything but. Midflight,

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Speaker 5: the camptain made an announcement to passengers that there was

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Speaker 5: a disturbance in the cockpit. A few minutes later, a

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Speaker 5: flight attendant announced over the loudspeaker that the plane was

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Speaker 5: in an emergency situation and needed to land immediately. Another

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Speaker 5: fifteen minutes passed and the flight attendant announced there was

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Speaker 5: a medical emergency.

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Speaker 3: An emergency, not necessarily a medical emergency.

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Speaker 2: As everyone sits there glued to their seats wondering what's happening.

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Speaker 3: There was, as I said, a life or death battle

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Speaker 3: going on in that cockpit with eighty.

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Speaker 2: Three souls at risk.

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Speaker 3: Again, thank you for being with us here at crime

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Speaker 3: stories and what a crime this is. Joining me an

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Speaker 3: all star panel to make sense of what we know

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 2: But first I want to go out to Mattias.

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Speaker 3: Gaffney, investigative reporter with the San Francisco Chronicle. Mattias, thank

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Speaker 3: you for being with us. What exactly happened? Let me

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Speaker 3: start with a narrow question in the cockpit, who.

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Speaker 2: Is forty four year old Joseph Emerson.

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Speaker 6: So he's a young father, and he's a pilot that's

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Speaker 6: relatively new to Alaska Airlines, and the day of this incident,

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Speaker 6: he's off duty and he's flying in what they call

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Speaker 6: the jump seat of the cockpit, which is basically like

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Speaker 6: a third seat right behind the pilots and a very

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Speaker 6: small cockpit, and he's basically getting a free flight. A

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Speaker 6: lot of pilots these days they commute to their jobs.

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Speaker 6: And so he lives in the San Francisco Bay area,

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Speaker 6: and so it appears that he may have been just

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Speaker 6: flying home to FFO.

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Speaker 2: So hold on, he was rightfully on the plane, correct.

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Speaker 6: Correct, off duty as a pilot, but he was essentially

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Speaker 6: a passenger on the plane, and.

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Speaker 2: He was in the cockpit correct.

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Speaker 6: Correct.

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Speaker 3: Let me ask you a couple of lightning roundquestions. A

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Speaker 3: lot of people have sent in email questions. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to ask them to you as you go along. Mattias

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Speaker 3: Gafney joining us in the San Francisco Chronicle.

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Speaker 2: So this guy, a forty four year.

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Speaker 3: Old dad Mary, Dad, was rightfully in the cockpit in

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Speaker 3: the jump seat. Anybody that's flung you know what that is.

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Speaker 3: You obviously the flight attendants where there's coffee and all that,

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Speaker 3: they bring down a little, very slender seat and they

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Speaker 3: sit on that and then it folds back up. Is

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Speaker 3: that what you're talking about, Matias?

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Speaker 6: No, that is out. Those are outside the cockpit. This

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Speaker 6: is inside the door.

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Speaker 2: But is that what it is?

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Speaker 6: It's essentially a small, tight, narrow seat that fits within

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Speaker 6: the cockpit though, so this is behind the locked cockpit doors.

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Speaker 3: So he actually was within arm's reach of all the controls.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, absolutely. We have a diagram up today on

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Speaker 6: our website, where it shows the interior of an E

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Speaker 6: one to seventy five cockpit. It is incredibly crammed.

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Speaker 2: Looking write at it. Great shot, by the way.

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Speaker 6: Thank you, Yes, and I mean yes. The controls that

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Speaker 6: he's alleged to have pulled were probably more accessible to

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Speaker 6: him than the two pilots in front of them.

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Speaker 2: Okay, joining me as I said an all star panel.

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Speaker 3: Now, let me bring in a long time colleague I

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Speaker 3: refer to often as a friend. Mary Skiavo, former Inspector

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Speaker 3: General of the United States Department of Transportation.

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Speaker 7: Thank you, Nancy.

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Speaker 2: How hard do you think it was to get that spot?

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Speaker 3: Former Inspector General of the US Department of Transportation, aviation lawyer,

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Speaker 3: scene in aviation analyst and author of Flying Blind, Flying

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Speaker 3: Safe at Maryskiavo dot com.

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Speaker 2: Mary, thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure that I understood that any pilot that

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Speaker 3: wants to hitch a ride can get up there with

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Speaker 3: the pilots driving my plane.

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Speaker 2: Is that normal?

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Speaker 7: Well, actually it is normal because it's a to the

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Speaker 7: airline to check the credentials, and they can check the

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Speaker 7: credentials right there. Usually the pilot who is flying, or

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Speaker 7: sometimes the first officer checks credentials. The airlines are able

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Speaker 7: to check to see that they really are pilots, and

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Speaker 7: usually they have a short discussion to feel comfortable with

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Speaker 7: each other. But absolutely, and a pilot from one airline

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Speaker 7: can jump seat on another. And when I was Inspector General,

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Speaker 7: we did a big investigation because not only can pilots

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Speaker 7: do that, but the FAA can too, And we found

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Speaker 7: abuse by the FAA people just joy riding in the

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Speaker 7: jump seat. But yes, it's legal to do that, and

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Speaker 7: there are a lot of loopholes about whether or not

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Speaker 7: you actually perform functions, and so that would that would

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Speaker 7: be a huge issue here because the pilot knowingly had

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Speaker 7: taken mushrooms legal in Oregon, they better reconsider that. But

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Speaker 7: if he did, if you consider that he didn't have

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Speaker 7: any flying duties, then technically now I would say he

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Speaker 7: had violated if a rigged fite using shrewms, but technically

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Speaker 7: he had violated the regulations that says if you're performing

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Speaker 7: a safety function, then you can't have any substances or

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Speaker 7: alcohol or anything.

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Speaker 2: Mariskiavo.

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Speaker 3: You do know you're going one hundred and twenty mph

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Speaker 3: and all of us mere mortals that are not really

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Speaker 3: attached to the aviation industry.

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Speaker 2: You're like zooming by us. Okay, say shrims and you

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Speaker 2: said he had been ingesting mushrooms and you said legal

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Speaker 2: in Oregon. They better rethink that. Agree? Agree?

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Speaker 3: What does it take crashing a plane with eighty plus

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Speaker 3: souls on it before they go, hey.

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Speaker 2: That's a bad idea. But wait a minute, don't you think? Mary?

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Speaker 2: And listen?

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Speaker 3: I go up and I breath test every pilot of

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Speaker 3: every plane I get on, especially when my children are.

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Speaker 2: Getting on it.

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Speaker 3: See if I smell any pot or booze, They've got

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Speaker 3: to know what I'm doing. I get right the face

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Speaker 3: to go and take a big whiff.

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Speaker 2: They try not to look irritated. But that said, you

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Speaker 2: know the thing is, don't.

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Speaker 3: Pilots or whoever's getting on a jump seat as you

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Speaker 3: call it, don't.

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Speaker 2: They have to be screamed in some way.

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Speaker 3: But you're saying it's verified, he's a pilot in good standing.

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Speaker 3: And I gotta tell you my husband has a lot

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Speaker 3: of pilots in his family, and they are as steady

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Speaker 3: as a rock.

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Speaker 2: You can't get a rise out of them. Ever.

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Speaker 3: They don't drink, they don't smoke, they're flat, just like

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Speaker 3: this flat affect. Even at a Christmas party or Thanksgiving party,

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Speaker 3: they are just you know, they're knives. They smile, they

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Speaker 3: say things, but they're not excitable. Exactly who you want

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Speaker 3: to pilot, Yeah, your plane. They're not crazy. They're not

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Speaker 3: the life of the party, telling the jobs, having too

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Speaker 3: much to drink, nothing like that.

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Speaker 2: That's what I want on my plane. I don't want

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Speaker 2: somebody high on mushrooms.

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Speaker 8: That's right.

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Speaker 7: You're exactly right. And there's just so many loopholes in

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Speaker 7: the aviation ring relations. And you only get tested when

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Speaker 7: you go in. I mean, you aren't even tested. You

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Speaker 7: only have your review when you go in for your

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Speaker 7: annual physics gold WHOA.

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Speaker 3: Of course, I have no right to interrupt the former

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Speaker 3: Inspector General of the US Department of Transportation, Marusciado. Let

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Speaker 3: me bring in Captain Ross Sagan, former commercial airline pilot,

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Speaker 3: forty one year's air safety rep over forty years Wow

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Speaker 3: Aviation expert consultant for Sagan Aviation Consultant. You can find

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Speaker 3: him at Sagan Aviation Consulting dot com.

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Speaker 2: I could go on and on and on about how.

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Speaker 3: He never had an accident, he never had a mistake

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Speaker 3: the entire time he was a pilot. But I'll skip

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Speaker 3: all that, Captain Ross Sagan. Do you mean to tell me,

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Speaker 3: Captain Sagan, that a pilot only goes in for a

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Speaker 3: physical once a year. Don't they have spot checks on

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Speaker 3: pilots to sniff you and take your blood urine?

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Speaker 9: I think it's a little stricter than that, Nancy. This

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Speaker 9: pilot and most airline pilots get evaluated medically six every

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Speaker 9: six months for the first class medical, and some companies

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Speaker 9: require a company physical as well.

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Speaker 3: Listen, I've had a company physical when I was doing

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Speaker 3: a syndicated show, Swift Justice. You know what it was.

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Speaker 3: They came in, they put a what do you say?

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Speaker 3: Ekg on me? That lasted sixty seconds and they tested

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Speaker 3: everybody for STDs.

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Speaker 2: Now what I'm not kidding. That was the physical and

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Speaker 2: guess what I passed. But that said, what do you

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Speaker 2: mean by a company physical? What do they put pilots through?

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Speaker 3: I'm going to get back on the mushrooms in the

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Speaker 3: fight in the cockpit with everybody sitting in the back

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Speaker 3: clutching their children. But what is a company physical, Captain

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Speaker 3: Ross Sagan?

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Speaker 9: Well it VERI the company physical varies company by company.

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Speaker 9: When we were doing company physicals in my company was

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Speaker 9: actually a pretty rigorous screening where we you know, a

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Speaker 9: nurse practitioner or doctor would check you for all your vitals,

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Speaker 9: check your hearing, check your eyesight, and of course there

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Speaker 9: would evaluate you for your mental stability, which is always

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Speaker 9: being evaluated even when you're not under at a medical

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Speaker 9: facility in our business. But the FA physical actually has

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Speaker 9: become more and more rigorous over the years. I remember

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Speaker 9: when I was a new pilot it was fairly standard

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Speaker 9: as you described, but before I retired, things had gotten

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Speaker 9: a lot tighter. There were more tasks, things were much

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Speaker 9: more scripted as far as the requirements by the doctor,

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Speaker 9: and I thought it was quite challenging. Fortunately I was

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Speaker 9: able to pass.

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Speaker 3: Fortunately you were able to pass because you're on the

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Speaker 3: Nancy Grace Show right now and you've had If you

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Speaker 3: had not passed, you'd be getting grilled captain.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 3: Guys, what happened? What actually happened in that cockpit? What

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Speaker 3: this captain was high on mushrooms and the Lord only

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Speaker 3: knows what else, But.

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Speaker 2: What did he do? Go ahead, buckle up, no pun

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Speaker 2: intended listen to this.

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Speaker 5: Alaska Airlines pilot Joseph David Emerson, was catching a ride

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Speaker 5: to San Francisco with Horizon Air flight twenty fifty nine

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Speaker 5: from Everett, Washington. The off duty pilot was seated in

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Speaker 5: the cockpit jump seat and engaged the pilot and co

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Speaker 5: pilot in casual conversation when, without warning, Emerson attempted to

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Speaker 5: shut off the engines mid flight. Emerson reportedly tried to

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Speaker 5: grab and pull two red fire handles that would have

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Speaker 5: activated the plane's emergency fire suppression system and cut off

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Speaker 5: fuel to its engines.

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Speaker 3: Okay, hold on, I need to understand exactly what I

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Speaker 3: just heard, and let me warm you.

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Speaker 2: Mattias Gaffney.

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Speaker 3: In law school and when I was practicing law, I

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Speaker 3: would get a big paragraph and a brief. I'd have

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Speaker 3: to cut it up into four or five pieces and

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Speaker 3: listen to each segment until I understood exactly what was

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Speaker 3: being said. And that just happened. That was a lot

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Speaker 3: of information. Mattias Gaffney joining US San Francisco Chronicle.

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Speaker 2: What exactly did this guy do?

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Speaker 3: And he is a pilot flying me and my children,

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Speaker 3: my John, David and Lucy, my husband.

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Speaker 2: What exactly did he do back there on the jump seat.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so it sounds like the first half of the

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Speaker 6: flight everything was pretty normal. He didn't show any signs

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Speaker 6: of any weird behavior. And then halfway through, all the

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Speaker 6: sudden he throws off his headset and says he's not okay.

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Speaker 6: And that's where everything turns, and he, according to the

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Speaker 6: flight crew what they told authorities, he reaches up and

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Speaker 6: grabs what's essentially like red fire handles that are on

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Speaker 6: the ceiling of the cockpit, and he pulls them down,

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Speaker 6: and that those are used if you have a fire

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Speaker 6: in one of your engines, your right or left engine,

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Speaker 6: you can stop the fuel from going there, which would

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Speaker 6: stop the fire hopefully from continuing to burn. And you

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Speaker 6: also have the option to rotate those handles, which would

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Speaker 6: shoot some fire extinguisher into the engines.

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Speaker 3: Okay, hold on, let me just understand what exactly he pulled.

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Speaker 3: Hold on, Captain Rossagan, I believe everything Mattia S. Gafney

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Speaker 3: just said, But can you explain it to me? What

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Speaker 3: would happen if I go on a cockpit and I

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Speaker 3: yank down those two red handles.

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Speaker 2: What happens in doesn't that cut off all the fuel?

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Speaker 2: To the plane.

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Speaker 9: Well, if you're on the ground, the engine it's not running,

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Speaker 9: it really doesn't do much. But in this case they're

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Speaker 9: thirty one thousand feet. Apparently this gentleman reached up and

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Speaker 9: pulled the red fire handle on one of the engines,

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Speaker 9: which essentially cuts off the fuel, the hydraulics, and the

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Speaker 9: air the pneumatics to the engine in an effort to

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Speaker 9: stop everything from going to the engine and cut off

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Speaker 9: any source of fire or fuel to the engine.

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Speaker 3: If he was successful, if anyone is successful and pulling

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Speaker 3: those two red levers, which I understand are up on

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Speaker 3: the ceiling of the cockpit undeterred, would the plane crash?

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Speaker 9: No, not necessary, not necessarily. What would happen would be

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Speaker 9: that the engines would start to spool down, the fuel

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Speaker 9: would be cut off to the engine, and the engine

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Speaker 9: would basically turn off, just like if you turned off

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Speaker 9: the ignition to your car as you were driving down

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Speaker 9: the road.

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Speaker 3: Right, but except you're up at thirty one thousand feet

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Speaker 3: and the plane cuts off.

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Speaker 9: Well, remember that it basically the engine is spooling down.

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Speaker 9: And the way we get an airplane to come down

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Speaker 9: from the sky when it's time to descend, for landing

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Speaker 9: as we pull the power back tidle, So the airplane

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Speaker 9: is not going to fall out of the sky when

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Speaker 9: one or both, even both engines are cut off.

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Speaker 2: If you're over an airport, that's great, Captain, because you

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Speaker 2: can just land. But what if you're over forest or

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Speaker 2: god forbid water and there's nowhere to land? Then what happens, Well.

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Speaker 9: An airplane basically comes down at about three miles for

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Speaker 9: every thousand feet, so up they're at thirty one thousand feet.

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Speaker 9: Ostensibly they're going to be able to glide about ninety

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Speaker 9: miles with no engine power.

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Speaker 2: Okay, probably a little.

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Speaker 9: Bit less in that case because there's probably more drag

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Speaker 9: with the engine is completely off, But the airplane is

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Speaker 9: not going to fall out of the sky when the

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Speaker 9: engines turn off.

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Speaker 3: What happens at the end of that ninety miles, Well,

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Speaker 3: now it's a bad day.

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Speaker 2: Can you be blunt? Captain?

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Speaker 9: Normally, within that period of time, hopefully a compliment crew

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Speaker 9: would have done everything they can to restore the power

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Speaker 9: to the engine. And this is actually a procedure that

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Speaker 9: we trained.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Captain Ross Sagan, you never had an accident ever

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Speaker 3: in all of your forty plus years but Ed Booth

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Speaker 3: joining me a renowned aviation lawyer partner at Mark's Gray

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Speaker 3: Law firm, Former prosecutor Ed Booth, isn't it true that

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Speaker 3: at the end of those ninety miles, if you're over

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Speaker 3: water or terrain, the plane's going down. The plane is

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Speaker 3: going down.

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Speaker 8: You would do what Captain Sullenberg did in the Hudson

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Speaker 8: River and ditch the airplane and evacuate the passengers. There

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Speaker 8: is a solution to that.

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Speaker 2: Why is no one just telling the truth? What I mean? Listen, people,

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Speaker 2: I'm a JD, not a DDS. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: to pull tooth, but if you give me a set

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Speaker 2: of pliers, I will try. Why is everybody.

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Speaker 3: Avoiding the fact that if you cut off the fuel to.

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Speaker 2: The plane, the plane's going to go down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I might have ninety miles before the plane goes down,

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Speaker 3: but the plane's going down period. I mean, yes, no,

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Speaker 3: is that trip? Let me ask Yavo Marri's Javo. After

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Speaker 3: those ninety miles? Can you just tell me the truth?

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Speaker 7: It is if if you shut off the engines, and

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Speaker 7: as the captain said, you can't get them restarted. And

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Speaker 7: when my flight training, that was part of my training

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Speaker 7: and one of the flights we couldn't get them restarted.

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Speaker 7: So he absolutely is. If someone juts off the engines,

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Speaker 7: you're going down. And it's not always a given that

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Speaker 7: you can restart. It's difficult. I've worked air crashes where

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Speaker 7: you couldn't do an in flight restart, not even a

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Speaker 7: you know, not even a diving restart. Then we couldn't restart. So, yes,

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Speaker 7: there you're going down, hopefully at an airport.

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Speaker 3: I almost wish I hadn't asked you, but I had

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Speaker 3: to ask you. Okay, what more do we know about

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Speaker 3: what's going on in that cockpit? Listen to our friends

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Speaker 3: at crimeonline dot com.

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Speaker 5: Before the incident. In the cockpit, Emerson and the flight's

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Speaker 5: pilots were chatting casually, according to court documents. Then, without warning,

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Speaker 5: Emerson threw his headset across the cockpit and said, quote,

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Speaker 5: I am not okay unquote. Then Emerson grabbed and pulled

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Speaker 5: on the two red handles that would have activated the

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Speaker 5: fire suppression system. CBS News reports one of the pilots

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Speaker 5: told investigators that Emerson wasn't able to pull all the

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Speaker 5: way down on the handles because the pilots were wrestling

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Speaker 5: with him. Emerson and the pilots got into a struggle

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Speaker 5: in the cockpit.

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Speaker 3: Hey, you know that's another thing, Captain ros Sagan, I

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Speaker 3: want my pilot to be fit so he can take.

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Speaker 2: On a guy like Emerson.

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Speaker 3: I don't want a pilot that is clearly dissipated, certainly

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Speaker 3: not drinking or on any kind of even in OTC

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Speaker 3: over the counter drug. I want him or her to

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Speaker 3: be able to take on somebody like Emerson.

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Speaker 2: And I'm hearing, oh Emerson was depressed. Emerson, this Emerson

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Speaker 2: that don't care really what he was going through because

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Speaker 2: he could have cost eighty lives.

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Speaker 3: And the reason I earlier said eighty souls is because

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Speaker 3: that's airplane talk. I've heard pilots say it. We've got

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Speaker 3: two hundred souls on board. That's where I got that from.

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Speaker 2: You guys.

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Speaker 3: But Kevin Rowseagan, you need your pilots fit and ready

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Speaker 3: for action.

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Speaker 9: And I absolutely agree, and I demanded it when I

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Speaker 9: was a captain. We are always sizing each other up,

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Speaker 9: and we are always screening each other, even if even

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Speaker 9: if we're sitting at the table in the pre way breathing.

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Speaker 9: And when we get on an airplane, we self certify

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Speaker 9: that was fit to fly in This pilot got on

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Speaker 9: the airplane as an observer member of the crew. He

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Speaker 9: was actually part of the crew when he got in

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Speaker 9: that cockpit, and he self certify that he was fit.

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Speaker 2: Well obviously, Well, well, waite, are you saying the word

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Speaker 2: self certified? Isn't that like grading your own test in

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Speaker 2: high school? Do you think I believe self certify? I

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Speaker 2: don't believe that for one minute. Self certify.

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Speaker 9: Well, it's just like when you get up in the

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Speaker 9: morning and you feel like, well, you're not feeling that well,

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Speaker 9: and who knows, maybe you have COVID, But should you

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Speaker 9: go into work or not. Well, that's what we do.

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Speaker 9: We certainly can't go to a doctor before before every flight,

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Speaker 9: so we have to self certify that we are fit

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Speaker 9: to fly mentally and physically, and that's what we do.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Sherry Schwartz is joining US physics psychologists specializing in

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Speaker 3: capital mitigation. Literally she wrote the book Criminal Behavior and

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Speaker 3: Where Law and Psychology Intersect at panthermitigation dot com. Doctor Sherry,

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Speaker 3: I appreciate the self certification that Captain Ross Sagan is

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Speaker 3: talking about. What I really appreciate is what he told

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Speaker 3: me about how often that they get physicals to make

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Speaker 3: sure they're ready for action. What's interesting to me, and

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Speaker 3: I want you to address how we feel the passengers

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Speaker 3: feel because I look at the plane and I stand

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Speaker 3: there before I let the children on the plane and

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Speaker 3: watch to see if the captain gets down out of

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Speaker 3: the cockpit and goes around the plane and checks the

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Speaker 3: tires and looks up.

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Speaker 2: I guess under the hood, I.

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Speaker 3: Watch them her to see what they're doing, and they

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Speaker 3: do that, and that makes me feel better. What I

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Speaker 3: don't want to hear is about somebody like Emerson high

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Speaker 3: on mushrooms up.

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Speaker 2: In the cockpit.

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Speaker 10: That's true, and Nancy, you're more vigilant than most of us.

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Speaker 10: I get on the plane, I find my seat, I

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Speaker 10: put my carry on bag, and I just trust that

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Speaker 10: the pilot and the crew are professional and sober.

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Speaker 3: In a minute, doctor Schwartz, you don't smell the pilot.

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Speaker 3: I totally smell the pilot if I can get that

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Speaker 3: close to him or her.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead.

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Speaker 10: Well, I think that's that's a great practice. I mean,

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Speaker 10: I always learned something from you, Nancy, and I'm learning

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Speaker 10: a lot today. Of course, this is really important to

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Speaker 10: pay attention and to also when if you see something wrong,

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Speaker 10: they say, if you see something, say something. But I

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Speaker 10: think most people are just trying to find their seat

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Speaker 10: and they want you to board as quickly as possible,

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Speaker 10: because anyone who's flown in the last few years knows

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Speaker 10: that it can be difficult, and so everybody's got to

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Speaker 10: take their seat, and you're just trusting that who's in

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Speaker 10: that cockpit has your best interest at heart. Your safety

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Speaker 10: is a priority, and so when something like this happens,

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Speaker 10: it's earth shattering. I immediately now, I've never looked into

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Speaker 10: FAA regulations on mental health for pilots, and now I've

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Speaker 10: been looking at it and wondering why it isn't a

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Speaker 10: little more stringent than it seems to be. It seems

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Speaker 10: to be self report. Everett could say no, I'm good,

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Speaker 10: no mental health issues, but he reported in the wake

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Speaker 10: of this that he's been depressed for six years.

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Speaker 2: Six years he's been depressed. Guys, what more are we learning?

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friend Dave Mack.

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Speaker 5: Joseph Emerson tried to shut down both of the Umbrare

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Speaker 5: one seventy five's engines by pulling its fire extinguisher handles.

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Speaker 5: Those handles located above the pilot's heads looked like a

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Speaker 5: t and when they are pulled, a valve in each

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Speaker 5: wing closes, stopping the flow of fuel to the engines

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Speaker 5: and more. When the flight crew wrestled with Emerson, one

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Speaker 5: of the pilots grabbed his wrists, preventing those valves from

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Speaker 5: being fully engaged, maintaining fuel levels for flight. And a

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Speaker 5: statement from Alaska Airlines quote, the Horizon captain and first

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Speaker 5: officer quickly responded, engine power was not lost, and the

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Speaker 5: crew secured the aircraft. Unquote, the flight was diverted to Portland, Oregon.

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Speaker 5: As the aircraft was landing in Portland, Federal prosecutors say

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Speaker 5: Emerson tried grabbing the handle of an emergency exit to

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Speaker 5: open it while still in flight. Flight attendants were detaining

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Speaker 5: him at the time.

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Speaker 3: Mary's kiova, what happens if you open the emergency exit

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Speaker 3: in flight?

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Speaker 7: Well, you know if now, they used to say you

443
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 7: could not do that, except that happened about a year ago.

444
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 7: Someone managed to do that, and if you do, you

445
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 7: have a rapid decompression. Rapid decompression can cause a loss

446
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 7: of the aircraft and it can be impossible to recover

447
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 7: from but if you open it in flight, you're gonna

448
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 7: have a rapid decompression and there's always a risk of

449
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 7: a whole loss, meaning your lease plane.

450
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 3: Okay, when you say rapid decompression, that seems to be airbrushing.

451
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: What really happens.

452
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: What happens on a plane mid flight thirty one thousand

453
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 3: feet in the air when there is quote rapid decompression.

454
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 7: Everything that's not belted down, including people, is sucked out

455
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 7: of the aircraft. And it has happened before, and that

456
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 7: is exactly what happens. People are sucked out of the plane.

457
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 7: And I don't mean to make light of it, but

458
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 7: people who have seen the movie Snakes on a Plane,

459
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 7: and you know when all the snakes are sucked out,

460
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 7: that's what happened. Except when it's a person's flight, the

461
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 7: people are sucked out or the baggage that isn't tied down,

462
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 7: and the flight attendants to the service card that's around

463
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 7: the coversion.

464
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 3: I was going to impress you with my knowledge of

465
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 3: aviation by quoting Snakes on a Plane, but decided.

466
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,479
Speaker 2: You did not need to hear that.

467
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: But you did it to me first, Captain Ross Sagan,

468
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 3: This guy a captain of course, in his own right,

469
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 3: knew exactly what not to do, pull down those red

470
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: levers that cut off the fuel to the engines, and

471
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 3: try to open the emergency exit see on a suicide mission.

472
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 9: One to ask to wonder, And I'm not so sure

473
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,239
Speaker 9: that he was really, you know, all there, because like

474
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 9: you said, he was a captain and he was well

475
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 9: versed in the in the operation of aircraft, and he

476
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 9: should have known that you can't open that door at

477
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 9: thirty one thousand feet. Mary is exactly right. It did happen,

478
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 9: But I think what the incident she was referring to

479
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 9: happened down lower. The pressure on that door is very

480
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 9: low as the aircraft getting ready to land, but this

481
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 9: aircraft has it out to there's six to eight he

482
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 9: pounds per square inch on every inch of that door.

483
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 9: There's hundreds, if not thousands of pounds of pressure on

484
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 9: that door. He would have to have been superman to

485
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 9: open that door at thirty one thousand feet, and he

486
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 9: should have known that. So why he did that knowing

487
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 9: that it's impossible is beyond me. I think the scariest

488
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,199
Speaker 9: thing for me about the whole incident is not that

489
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 9: he grabbed that he was grabbing the fire handles. But

490
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 9: that we had we had a mostly unstable person in

491
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 9: the cockpit, and both of us, both of the flying

492
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 9: pilots in the front seats, were now occupied in trying

493
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 9: to control this person instead of doing with the supposed

494
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 9: to be doing, that is flying the airplane, which is

495
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 9: a job of course in and of itself, should be

496
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 9: it should be paid attention to, and it wasn't for

497
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 9: those moments.

498
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: This is not the first time that a mid air

499
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 3: flight is in danger.

500
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut.

501
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 5: Twelve, a German airliner left for Barcelona around ten am

502
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 5: local time, heading to Duseeldorf, Germany. The plane reached its

503
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 5: cruising altitude of thirty eight thousand feet at ten twenty

504
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 5: seven am. After reaching that cruising altitude, the captain, thirty

505
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 5: four year old Patrick Sondenheimer, turned the controls over to

506
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 5: the copilot, twenty seven year old Andres Lubids, so he

507
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 5: could use the restroom. At ten thirty one am, the

508
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 5: plane begins a rapid descent. Ten minutes later, at ten

509
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 5: forty one am, the plane, with one hundred and forty

510
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 5: nine souls on board, crashed into the mountainous terrain in

511
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 5: southern France. There were no.

512
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: Survivors and more and cut thirteen.

513
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 5: When a Boeing seven thirty seven Max being operated by

514
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 5: Indonesia's Lion Air began and having problems in mid flight,

515
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 5: A pilot in the jump seat became a hero as

516
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 5: he helped the crew stop the plane's nose from repeatedly

517
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 5: pointing down. Disaster was averted and a hero was born. However,

518
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 5: on the plane's very next flight, the same thing happened.

519
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 5: No hero in the jump seat this time. The plane

520
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 5: crashed into the Java Sea thirteen minutes after takeoff on

521
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 5: October twenty ninth, twenty eighteen, killing all one hundred and

522
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 5: eighty nine people on board. The resulting investigation blamed everyone,

523
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 5: from Boeing to the flight crew.

524
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: Back to the case at hand, what happened in that

525
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 3: cockpit and why listen?

526
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 5: Passenger Aubrey Gavello tells ABC News that she heard the

527
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 5: flight attendant tell a man walking to the back of

528
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 5: the plane quote, we are going to be fine. It's okay,

529
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 5: We'll get you off the plane.

530
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 4: Okay. This give you a heads up. We've got the

531
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 4: guy to try to shut into down out of the cockpit,

532
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 4: and he doesn't sound like he's causing an issue of

533
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 4: a back right now. I think he used the dude.

534
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 4: Other than that, Uh, you know, we one long person.

535
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 4: As soon as we get on the ground and part

536
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 4: the threat is now in the back of the airplane.

537
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 4: Uh so we're we're produced on the threat level. We're

538
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 4: going to check in with the flight attendant to make

539
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 4: sure everything is running smoothly. But it seems like he's

540
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 4: settled down as soon as he's Uh, after for one

541
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 4: moment of going a little bit overboard, we put in

542
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 4: a back, so escalated to a four Christ's but he's

543
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 4: a hard But now he's a handcuffed and he's an

544
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 4: alf back jumped when law enforcement arrives.

545
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 9: And right now he's paying.

546
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: Calm time stories with Nancy Grace.

547
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 3: But is Jaffney joining us and to get a report

548
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: with San Francisco Chronicle? Did you hear that pilot? He

549
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: was just as cool as a cucumber. He could have

550
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 3: been reading the stock report, you know, the stocks and

551
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: bonds just even killed and steady.

552
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: And that's what I want to hear. Explain to me

553
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: what he was telling the control tower. What happened once

554
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: the pilots subdued this guy another pilot.

555
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, he was basically informing them that they had an

556
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 6: inflight emergency, that they had a guy who was in

557
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 6: the jump seat try to turn off the engines. And

558
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 6: he the pilot, is letting the air traffic controllers know

559
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 6: the situation and that now that off duty pilot is

560
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 6: in the back of the plane and they appears to

561
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 6: be calming down in his handcuffed so and then he

562
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 6: also mentions to them to have law enforcement ready to

563
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 6: pick up at the gate, as this is obviously something

564
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 6: they're going to report a crime.

565
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: And somehow they've got him handcuffed and all the way

566
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: to the back of the plane.

567
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 4: Listen, doesn't sound like he's causing an issue of the

568
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 4: back right now. I think you used to do that's

569
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 4: you know, we one long person seems to get on

570
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 4: the ground and park. The thread is now in the

571
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 4: back of the airplane, so we're reduced on the threat level.

572
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 5: Passengers watched as a man in handcuffs was escorted to

573
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 5: the back of the plane. There was no other explanation

574
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 5: except the flight attendant's announcement about a medical emergency. The

575
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 5: plane was diverted to Portland, Oregon, where police stood by

576
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 5: to take the handcuffed man off the plane. Passenger Alex

577
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 5: Wood tells ABC News the man was wearing a lanyard,

578
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 5: a sweater and looked like an airline employee.

579
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 3: Ten officers meet the plane as thank God in Heaven,

580
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 3: it pulls into the gate, mears Gialbo. I got to

581
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: tell you, just listening to that pilot and hearing Captain Sagan,

582
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: it actually makes my chick. It's hurt to think of

583
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: the near fatality that occurred. Because Mary, you and I

584
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: have talked about this. I was there on nine to

585
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 3: eleven in New York and for the longest time, no

586
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: planes could fly over at Manhattan. I remember the first

587
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: night I had snuck into the workout room in my

588
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 3: apartment building, which was at the top of the building,

589
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: and all the lights were off and there I was

590
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: running the treadmill. It's like nine ten o'clock at night,

591
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: and I saw a plane go over Manhattan and I

592
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 3: jumped off the treadmill and jumped down on the floor

593
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: and tried to call my now husband. That was just

594
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 3: my immediate impulse. And then I'm like, whoa, whoa, why

595
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 3: is there a plane? Everything's okay, and I got up

596
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 3: and watched the plane fly over. I mean, this is

597
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: extremely traumatic.

598
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 7: It's very traumatic, and we're in a new age of aviation.

599
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 7: So many improvements have made.

600
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 10: It very, very safe.

601
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 7: The statistics have been going in the right direction.

602
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 10: For aviation safety.

603
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 7: But on aviation security now era pilot intentional pilot actions

604
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 7: or pilot suicide how you count the accidents is the

605
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 7: leading cause of death or the second leading cause of

606
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 7: death on commercial air flights, and the faas nitor tremendous

607
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 7: criticism for getting a better handle on how do we

608
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 7: evaluate pilot mental fitness to fly? And as recently as

609
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 7: this summer, my old office did a study and told

610
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 7: the FAA, get a better handle on this, come up

611
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 7: with some better tests, come up with something better, and

612
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 7: the FAA said, of course, well, we'll work on it.

613
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 7: But it is an issue. And you can't blame pilots

614
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 7: for not wanting to discuss their mental health because if

615
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 7: they come forward, they'll be grounded. But we need a

616
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 7: better way to handle the situation and to improve our

617
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 7: security since we are improving all the safety features on

618
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 7: the aircraft.

619
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 3: To ed Booth, a high profile aviation lawyer, I want

620
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 3: you to hear this.

621
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 2: Take a listen to crime online dot Com.

622
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 5: Joseph Emerson hadn't slept in forty hours and started suffering

623
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 5: from depression about six months ago. ABC News reports he

624
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 5: told the flight attendants to restrain him because he was

625
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 5: having a nervous breakdown. Emerson also discussed his use of

626
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 5: psychedelic mushrooms and reportedly thought he was dreaming and just

627
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 5: wanted to wake up. Forty four year old Joseph David

628
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 5: Emerson lives in Pleasant Hill, California. The married father of

629
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 5: two is well liked by his neighbors, who describe him

630
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 5: as positive, very friendly, and upbeat. Emerson is an FAA

631
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 5: licensed pilot. He joined Alaska Airlines as a Horizon first

632
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 5: officer in two thousand and one. Eleven years later, he

633
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 5: left the airline to fly for Virgin America. Emerson returned

634
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 5: to Alaska in twenty sixteen when the carrier acquired Virgin Amrita,

635
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 5: and he became a captain with the last airlines in

636
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 5: twenty nineteen.

637
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 3: Two Ed Booth, high profile aviation lawyer and so much more.

638
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: In Booth, I don't care if he's depressed. I don't

639
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 3: want him in the cockpit.

640
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 8: I think everyone would agree with that. Part of my

641
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 8: practice is representing pilots whose medical credentials are called into

642
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 8: question by the FAA, and there are so many disincentives

643
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 8: for pilots to disclose problems because of what happens when

644
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 8: they do. I think it's important to understand that when

645
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 8: you go for a medical exam, there are three questions

646
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 8: that allow the FAA to diagnose mental disorders. They ask

647
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 8: the pilot applicant, do you suffer from mental disorders of

648
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 8: any sort, such as depression or anxiety? They ask are

649
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 8: you currently using any medications? And they're looking for psychotropic drugs,

650
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 8: And then they ask you about visits to health professionals

651
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 8: within the past three years. And if you put a

652
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 8: psychiatrist or psychologists down there, they are going to make

653
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 8: some inquiries. But these inquiries are so harsh, even with

654
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 8: pilots with minor anxiety problems that no one reports them.

655
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 8: And we've heard this pilot had been suffering from depression

656
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 8: for six years. He would have been examined six times.

657
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 8: At least he lied, I suppose six times when asked

658
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 8: if he suffered from depression.

659
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 3: We're learning it maybe six months. Jackie isn't it six months?

660
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 2: Six months?

661
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 3: Would that have encompassed one of his physical exams? And

662
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 3: when they have a physical exam and they also have

663
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 3: a mental exam.

664
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 8: A nancy, they are asked if they have mental disorders.

665
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 8: There's no mental exam. I've been through dozens of these

666
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 8: physicals myself, and it's a self reporting system.

667
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out how long it takes your

668
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 3: body to.

669
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: Metabolize.

670
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: As they're called magic mushrooms, what effect do they have

671
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: on you? You can take a higher dosage a lower dosage,

672
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 3: but they act as a psychotropic drug to my understanding, Now,

673
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 3: what did he mean, doctor Sherry Schwartz by I'm having

674
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 3: a nervous breakdown.

675
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 10: Well, so that's an interesting one, kind of like insanity

676
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 10: is not in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, neither is

677
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 10: mental breakdown, but it is something that we use to

678
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 10: describe a certain mental state. And so what I'm what

679
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 10: I can surmise that he means is that he's just

680
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 10: not okay. He's having some sort of break with reality.

681
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 10: It could be a brief psychotic episode. It could be

682
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 10: due to the magic mushrooms or something else. It could

683
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 10: be due to experiencing the tragedy of the death of

684
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 10: his loved one. Underlying mental illness like the depression that

685
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 10: he described, lack of a strong support system. There's so

686
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 10: many things that can lead into what we describe as

687
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 10: having a mental breakdown.

688
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 3: I've never used psychotropic mushrooms, but apparently the effects last

689
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: for about three to six hours in the residual state

690
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 3: in your system at least twenty four hours after. But

691
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 3: it's just in my mind, like drinking and driving. Mushrooms.

692
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 3: To my understanding, the right ones that will have like

693
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 3: an LSD effect on you if you take them, and

694
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 3: to me, it's just like driving wild drunk, except now

695
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 3: you've got eighty plus souls in your hands.

696
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: Take a listener. Cut eight.

697
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 5: When Joseph David Emerson tried to shut down the engines

698
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 5: on the Alaska Airlines plane, there were eighty passengers and

699
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 5: four crew members on the flight. Now Emerson is charged

700
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 5: with eighty three counts of attempted murder, and he's also

701
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 5: facing eighty three counts of reckless endangerment, a misdemeanor, and

702
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 5: one felon account of endangering in aircraft. According to the

703
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 5: Moltnomah County Sheriff's Office, Meanwhile, the United States Attorney's Office

704
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 5: District of Oregon announced that Emerson has been charged in

705
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,919
Speaker 5: federal court with one count of interfering with flight crew

706
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 5: members and attendant.

707
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: As he should be.

708
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 3: Tim Athias Gaffey joining us from the San Francisco Chronicle,

709
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 3: what happens next?

710
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 2: Has he already bonded out? Is he at home boiling

711
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: out some more mushrooms?

712
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 10: Yeah?

713
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 6: He appeared for his arrangement yesterday in state court there

714
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 6: in Oregon. It was a pretty quick court appearance. Basically,

715
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 6: the judge said that he will have a bail hearing

716
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 6: within five days where he can ask to be released

717
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 6: out of custody or a bail set. But for now

718
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 6: he's in custody and he will have future court hearings

719
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 6: coming up to determine if he will remand that I

720
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 6: hate it for him and his family.

721
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 3: But what I hate more is the near fatality of

722
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: over eighty people trapped at thirty one thousand feet.

723
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 2: We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,