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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace, What if anything, does human trafficking,

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking have to do with wildlife poachers? Repeat? What

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Speaker 1: does sex and human trafficking the sale of humans have

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Speaker 1: to do with poaching? Poaching animals? Guess what a lot

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and series six

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Speaker 1: one eleven. Let me just jog your memory on the

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Speaker 1: whole sex trafficking human trafficking issue. Does the name Mattie

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Speaker 1: McCann ring a bell? Because I'll never forget it? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at Inside Edition.

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Speaker 2: Three year old Madeline McCann made headlines when she vanished

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Speaker 2: during a family vacation in Portugal twelve years ago.

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Speaker 1: Her parents have returned home to England without their still

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Speaker 1: missing daughter.

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Speaker 2: This age progression image released by authorities to show what

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Speaker 2: she might have looked like at age nine. Is Madeline

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Speaker 2: still alive today? One theory is that she was kidnapped

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Speaker 2: by a pedophile ring still. Another theory recreated in the

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Speaker 2: Netflix program a predator in a surgical mask took Madeleine.

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Speaker 1: Was Maddie McCann sex trafficked? This sweet, precious, beautiful three

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Speaker 1: year old girl, the thought of her being sex trafficked

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Speaker 1: across the borders from Portugal to the next, to the next,

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Speaker 1: to the next. Would traffickers go to that effort, to

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Speaker 1: that extent to sex traffic Mattie McCann, Is that possible?

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Speaker 1: Listen now to our friends at Crime on Line.

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Speaker 3: As the investigation into the disappearance of Mattie McCann progressed,

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Speaker 3: a US based think tank considered the possibility that the

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Speaker 3: girl may have been taken by sex trafficking gangs. John Whitehead,

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Speaker 3: an expert from the Rutherford Institute, says children go missing

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Speaker 3: around the world similarly every day, often taken from their

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Speaker 3: own driveways. Studies show that the child sex trafficking industry

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Speaker 3: may be worth as much as nine point five billion

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Speaker 3: dollars in the US alone.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes these victims end up in countries far far away.

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Speaker 1: How about this name? If you don't recall the Maddy

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Speaker 1: McCann dis appearance, what about this take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friends at Crime on Line.

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Speaker 3: When Natalie Holloway went missing, many believed the Alabama teen

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Speaker 3: was sold into sex slavery. The last person seen with

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Speaker 3: Holloway was your van der slut a Dutch news agency

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Speaker 3: investigation and claimed the Dutch national was involved in selling

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Speaker 3: Thaie women into prostitution. A hidden camera exposational vander Sloop

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Speaker 3: telling someone posing as a sex industry boss that he

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Speaker 3: could get passports for Thay females who think they were

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Speaker 3: going to the Netherlands to work as dancers. According to

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Speaker 3: the report, vander Sloop made about thirteen thousand dollars for

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Speaker 3: every woman sold into prostitution in the Netherlands.

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Speaker 1: Just how does sex trafficking work? How can you be

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Speaker 1: at home and then somehow end up in an entirely

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Speaker 1: different country being forced into sex slavery where you have twelve, thirteen,

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Speaker 1: fourteen or more customers? In other words, men raping a day. Well,

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Speaker 1: what about the case of the Girl next door? I'm

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Speaker 1: referring to the documentary on cases just like this? What

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Speaker 1: happened to the girl next door? And where do poachers

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Speaker 1: and some far off country come into this scenario? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen.

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Speaker 4: Kate was on a trip to visit a friend when

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Speaker 4: a young man told her she was beautiful. They exchanged

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Speaker 4: phone numbers, then started communicating often. She told her parents

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Speaker 4: he was her boyfriend. He showered her with clothes and gifts.

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Speaker 4: Kate thought they were in love and she would do

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Speaker 4: anything to make him happy. That included selling her body.

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Speaker 4: She was just fourteen the first time he took her

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Speaker 4: to a hotel room, gave her alcohol and marijuana, and

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Speaker 4: then told her to have sex with a stranger.

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Speaker 1: And from PBS Frontline Sex Trafficking in America listen.

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Speaker 5: In twenty sixteen, the unit picked up this teenager named Kat.

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Speaker 5: She'd been abducted and trafficked by men she met online.

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Speaker 6: He told me, fifteen minutes fifteen to twenty minutes was

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Speaker 6: one hundred, thirty minutes was one twenty to one fifty,

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Speaker 6: and an hour was two hundred. But it defended and

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Speaker 6: like that was all he told me. But I'm getting

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Speaker 6: They went up more and more if stay one and

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Speaker 6: more time.

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Speaker 5: The night she left home, Goat was driven thirty miles

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Speaker 5: to Phoenix, where she met a third man, which she

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Speaker 5: says was the most frightening of them all. Brian Flamante.

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Speaker 7: Briant was more of the enforcer.

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Speaker 1: You could see.

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Speaker 7: He told me, I don't give up who you are.

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Speaker 7: He said, I own you, I own your body, I

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Speaker 7: own you, and you have no saying what you do.

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Speaker 1: This little girl totally totally under the control of a

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Speaker 1: brutal sex trafficker. How many young girls, young people, young boys,

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Speaker 1: and beyond get sex trafficked in America today? Every day.

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Speaker 1: It's happening right now, and there's always the hope that

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Speaker 1: you're going to find the purp. But what if the

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Speaker 1: purp has taken the victim out of the country. Joining

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Speaker 1: me now an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we know and how poachers and far away countries

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Speaker 1: have anything to do with victims that are kidnapped and

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Speaker 1: sex trafficked here in America. First of all, to Cheryl McCollum, founded,

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Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute and starop Zone

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Speaker 1: seven podcasts.

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Speaker 8: Cheryl explained, Nancy, if you remember when you and I

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Speaker 8: were in Aruba owned the Natalie Holloway case. We're sitting

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Speaker 8: at dinner and we learn we're only fifteen miles from Venezuela.

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Speaker 8: Fifteen miles that's a quick boat trip. So if Natalie

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Speaker 8: had been human traffic, she could have been in another

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Speaker 8: country within minutes. So what happens here is these are

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Speaker 8: organized criminals. They have got the system bailable. They have

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Speaker 8: trucks and trains, and planes and boats. And once they

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Speaker 8: get that victim, that victim is transported so quickly that

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Speaker 8: literally from Africa they can be in Asia within forty

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Speaker 8: eight hours.

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Speaker 1: It's just as easy as having a boat at a dock.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine how quickly a boat can go from

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Speaker 1: the tip of Florida to Cuba and beyond. In no time,

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Speaker 1: your victim is gone and the reality is she has

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Speaker 1: no way to contact home, ID, phones, everything taken away

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Speaker 1: from the victim. To Jbi Rice, Executive director of the

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Speaker 1: Texas Counter Trafficking Initiative, You can find him at THXTCI

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Speaker 1: dot org. JB thank you for being with us. How

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Speaker 1: easy is it to move a sex trafficking victim who

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Speaker 1: has already been beaten horribly, has her cell phone if

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Speaker 1: she has one, her ID, her money taken from her,

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Speaker 1: and she's moved from loke location until she's actually out

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Speaker 1: of the country. How easy is that for a trafficker

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Speaker 1: to do?

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Speaker 9: It would be as easy as going on vacation yourself.

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Speaker 9: The A lot of times traffickers utilize Mercal airlines, public transportation,

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Speaker 9: private transportation, any way that you can move a victim

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Speaker 9: can be moved, you know.

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Speaker 1: To Nima Romani, former federal prosecutor, trial attorney and president,

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Speaker 1: co founder of West Coast Trial Lawyers. Ninma, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. By the time I would get

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Speaker 1: to a six traffic victim to prosecute a case number one,

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Speaker 1: they're afraid. I had one fourteen year old girl run

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Speaker 1: away the night before her testimony the next morning, and

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Speaker 1: it was all night long. We were out on the

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Speaker 1: streets going everywhere we could find think she might be

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Speaker 1: because she was so afraid to testify against her traffickers.

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Speaker 1: We found her. The case was successful, there was a conviction,

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Speaker 1: But it's very hard because the sex trafficking victims have

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Speaker 1: been beaten so badly and mistreated so badly, often given drugs,

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Speaker 1: they are out of their minds and they don't have

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Speaker 1: the strength to actually go to authorities or testify even

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Speaker 1: if they could get to a phone. And when you're

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Speaker 1: in another country, who do you call? I mean, when

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Speaker 1: I was in Aruba with you, Cheryl McCollum, trying to

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Speaker 1: get more answers on Natalie, they didn't even have a

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Speaker 1: nine to one one set up. They don't have that there.

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Speaker 1: So Nima, what.

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Speaker 10: Do you do fancy?

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Speaker 11: It's hard, you know, sex trafficking, sex abuse, domestic violence.

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Speaker 11: These are among the most underworded crimes that even when

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Speaker 11: the victims do report it, eight or nine times out

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Speaker 11: of ten, we can't or don't show up by the

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Speaker 11: time trials room. So I need to prosecute. Some states

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Speaker 11: have laws that get around Crawford and the confrontation cause

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Speaker 11: that allows that previous testimony to get in California is

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Speaker 11: one of them, but other states don't. So it's not

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Speaker 11: easy to prosecute these cases. When you have victims that

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Speaker 11: don't cooperate, and.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angie Arnold, a jury may wonder, or people that

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Speaker 1: haven't done this may wonder, well, why won't she come

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Speaker 1: forward and tell the truth, if this really happened to her,

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Speaker 1: why won't she or he take the stand? Very often

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Speaker 1: they're miners. Very often, they're beaten, very often they're drugged.

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Speaker 1: With me Doctor Angela Arnold's psychiatrists renowned psychiatrists out of

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela ARNOLDMD dot com, who specializes

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Speaker 1: in the treatment of girls and women.

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Speaker 12: Why doctor Angie, Well, Nancy, as you just said, they've

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Speaker 12: been beaten, they've been they have no security left inside

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Speaker 12: of themselves. They no longer know who to trust. Everything

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Speaker 12: they've grown up believing has been destroyed by some stranger.

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Speaker 12: So how could they ever feel safe. I've treated girls

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Speaker 12: that this has happened to Nancy. It's they are so

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Speaker 12: traumatized by this that it's difficult to even treat them.

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Speaker 12: It's very hard for them to come forward. Sometimes people

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Speaker 12: in their lives leave them. I have I have one

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Speaker 12: girl that I've treated and her husband left her after this,

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Speaker 12: after she was held hostage in another country. Who can

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Speaker 12: they trust after that? Nancy? And everything they know at

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Speaker 12: their core has been questioned? And as you said, they've

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Speaker 12: been beaten, they've been drugged. They don't know how to

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Speaker 12: come forward, Nancy, they don't know who to trust anymore.

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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace joining me right now is

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Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Coal Parton. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to explain. I'd like for you to explain, Nicoal before

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Speaker 1: we go to Andrew Voss joining us Nicole, the connection

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Speaker 1: between poachers and poachers trails in far away countries we

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Speaker 1: may not even have on our radar, What if anything,

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Speaker 1: does that have to do with our girls and our boys,

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Speaker 1: our American citizens that are being taken and sex trafficked.

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Speaker 13: Well, we have to remember human trafficking. Sex trafficking is

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Speaker 13: the second largest organized criminal activity in our nation, second

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Speaker 13: only put drug trafficking, followed right by gun trafficking and

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Speaker 13: then wildlife trafficking. So this is huge. This is when

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Speaker 13: we think of drug trafficking, we can kind of relate

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Speaker 13: because we know drugs are coming in and out of

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Speaker 13: our country in numbers that are staggering to us. Those

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Speaker 13: same minds, the same masterminds behind the drug trafficking in

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Speaker 13: our country, is behind the sex trafficking, is behind the

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Speaker 13: wildlife trafficking. So now we have connections in these foreign

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Speaker 13: countries Africa. I've been there myself, Nancy, and I've seen

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Speaker 13: poaching firsthand. These guys who are involved in the poaching

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Speaker 13: also want the drugs, also need the weapons, also want

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Speaker 13: the children, so it's all combined in this large organized

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Speaker 13: criminal activity. It's estimated that every two minutes a child

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Speaker 13: is bought and sold into sex slavery. Every two minutes,

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Speaker 13: it's happening.

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Speaker 1: We're not just talking about money, we're talking about brutality,

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Speaker 1: the extent to which they will go to get money

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Speaker 1: to get the exotic animals, to get the guns, to

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Speaker 1: get the victims. Listen to our friends.

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Speaker 14: SABC, Queen of Ivory Yang is currently serving a fifteen

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Speaker 14: year sentence for trafficking six million dollars worth of elephant tusks.

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Speaker 14: Although poaching has declined in recent years, Tanzania's elephant population

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Speaker 14: has suffered a lot over the years, dwindling by up

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Speaker 14: to sixty percent between two thousand and nine and twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 15: The PAMs Foundation says as a result of mister Lotter's

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Speaker 15: anti poaching work, he had received a number of death threats.

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Speaker 15: With Tanzania's last execution carried out almost thirty years ago,

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Speaker 15: the death sentences for the eleven are likely to be

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Speaker 15: commuted to life in prison. The verdict against Wayne Lotter's

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Speaker 15: killers is being seen by conservationists as a significant win

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Speaker 15: in the fight against poaching in Tanzania. Lota, a co

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Speaker 15: founder of the not for profit PAMs Foundation, supported a

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Speaker 15: number of anti poaching initiatives across Africa. Prior to his death.

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Speaker 15: Many in the conservation community considered him a key figure

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Speaker 15: in East Africa's battle against poaching. Through his efforts, the

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Speaker 15: Tanzanian government was able to arrest Yangfenglan in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 15: a woman behind one of the largest ivory syndicates in

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Speaker 15: Eastern Africa.

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Speaker 1: For those of you that don't know, Wayne latter worked

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Speaker 1: for a nonprofit called PAMs Against Poaching. He was gunned

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Speaker 1: down by killers while traveling in a taxi to the airport.

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Speaker 1: It was a designated hit to make him stop his

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Speaker 1: anti poaching activity. Did you hear what was just reported?

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Speaker 1: Millions and millions of dollars of ivory and the form

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Speaker 1: of elephant tusks every year, so valuable that the poachers

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Speaker 1: would kill over What do you think they would do

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Speaker 1: if it was over human trafficking victims? Joining me right

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Speaker 1: now is Andro Voss joining us from the Netherlands, Founder

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Speaker 1: and CEO of the Wildlife Forensic Academy based in South Africa.

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Speaker 1: You can find him at Wildlife Forensic Academy dot com.

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Speaker 1: Mister boss, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Explain to me the connection between these poaching trails in

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Speaker 1: far away countries and sex traffic victims.

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Speaker 10: Actually, you know, wildlife crime is one of the biggest

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Speaker 10: forms of organized crime, you know, And the problem with

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Speaker 10: wildlife crime is it's a facilitating form of organized crime.

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Speaker 10: It facilitates all forms of organized crime, not only in Africa,

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Speaker 10: but around the globe. And what you see is happening

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Speaker 10: if a poacher, you know, if the poachers approaching animal

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Speaker 10: and they have an asset, within eighty four hours, the asset,

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Speaker 10: the horn or ivory will be on a market in Honoi.

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Speaker 10: That means that the poachers have bribed the whole chain.

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Speaker 10: You know, the Bright Ranges police officers, customs officers, the

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Speaker 10: airport personnel here and in Asia, and they have a

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Speaker 10: real but the problem is that the root is not

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Speaker 10: controlled by the police because wildlife crime is a has

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Speaker 10: not a high priority in the policing, sobody nobody controls

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Speaker 10: the roots. So human traffickers, traffickers, all kinds of traffickers

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Speaker 10: from arms, they use the same roots and they are

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Speaker 10: free to trafficors goods around the globe. And that's a

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Speaker 10: huge problem. And we are an academy. It's just we

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Speaker 10: are just two years open. And if you see our

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Speaker 10: clients are Europle, our clients are US Homeland Security, and

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Speaker 10: that is an indication how big the problem is.

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Speaker 1: How quickly can stolen goods be transported, whether I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about guns, money, drugs, exotic animals. What about human sex

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Speaker 1: trafficking victims? How quickly can it be transported to another country?

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Speaker 1: They be transported to another country. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our cut sixteen. This includes talks at the Hague.

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Speaker 16: This talk is about animals, not about your cat or

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Speaker 16: your dog at home, but wildlife and to be more specific,

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Speaker 16: wildlife crime. According to Interpal, wildlife crime has a turnover

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Speaker 16: of twenty billion euro annually and wildlife crime is highly

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Speaker 16: really highly organized. The syndicates, they have tentacles, from politicians

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Speaker 16: to local farmers in rural communities. The wildlife poachers, the

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Speaker 16: rhino poaches. They killed two rhinos a day and within

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Speaker 16: eighty four hours you will find the rhino horn on

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Speaker 16: the markets of Hanoi.

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Speaker 1: Within about eighty hours, the animal is killed, the horns

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Speaker 1: are cut off, and they're in Hanoi. What about our

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Speaker 1: girls and boys, Cheryl McCollum. The poaching trails themselves are

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Speaker 1: critical in the absconding, the kidnapping, the moving, the transporting

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Speaker 1: of sex trafficking victims.

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Speaker 8: Explain, Nancy, you have someone kidnapped, they can be put

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Speaker 8: on an airplane within hours. They can be in another

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Speaker 8: country or another city. All of their personal property, their ideas,

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Speaker 8: their cell phones, everything is taken from them. They are

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Speaker 8: placed somewhere, they are drugged, they are immediately at work

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Speaker 8: for their captor, being raped, being raped, absolutely repeatedly. And

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Speaker 8: this can happen from the moment somebody's kidnapped. They can

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Speaker 8: be in another country and being assaulted repeatedly, working for

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Speaker 8: somebody else within eight hours, with no idea, no way

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Speaker 8: to contact family. They could have their hair god cut

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Speaker 8: and give it a different identification, and that's it. They're done,

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Speaker 8: they're laws, They're gone.

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Speaker 1: No trails, Nima Romani. The trails, the trails, the poaching trails,

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm asking about.

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Speaker 11: So, Nancy, when you're dealing with any type of trafficking, right,

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Speaker 11: you have drugs, you have animals, you have animal parts

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Speaker 11: coming from other countries into the United States. I prosecuted

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Speaker 11: cases of San Cathedral, the busiest port in the world,

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Speaker 11: and I would see primates, I would see reptiles. I

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Speaker 11: would see animal parts used by the same traffickers through

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Speaker 11: the same means. They would hire them in tunnels, vehicles,

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Speaker 11: both and of course coming down in New Mexico, we

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Speaker 11: would see the money, we would see the guns, we

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Speaker 11: would see the people. So there is a direct connection here.

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Speaker 11: These are criminal enterprises. They are in the business of

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Speaker 11: making money. Doesn't matter whether it's people, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 11: whether it's drugs, guns, or animals, they will part it

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Speaker 11: in this criminalis.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace joining us now is Professor

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Speaker 1: Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet

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Speaker 1: on Amazon, and star of a new hit podcast, Body

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Speaker 1: Bags that Joe Scott Morgan are the poaching trails for

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Speaker 1: the animal trafficking. The poachers, the drugs, the guns are

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Speaker 1: the same trails being used to transport human victims.

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Speaker 17: Yes, yes they are, Nancy. And here's the thing, and

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Speaker 17: it's from an investigative standpoint, it's rather it's rather simplistic.

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Speaker 17: There's no need to reinvent the wheel, because unfortunately humans

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Speaker 17: are commodities just like animals, just like the tusk for instance,

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Speaker 17: of animals, or you know, there are all any number

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Speaker 17: of different body parts there that are kind of piecemelled

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Speaker 17: out relative to to these animals that are sent far

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Speaker 17: and wide. But here here's one of the really insidious

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Speaker 17: underlying things to this. After after the victim of of

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Speaker 17: human trafficking, the sex trade. There there's no more utility

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Speaker 17: for them. Nancy. You know, when you have an animal,

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Speaker 17: you can piecemeal this animal and and make it go further. Say,

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Speaker 17: if you're if you're going to take an animal and

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Speaker 17: have it intact and send it to I don't know,

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Speaker 17: somewhere for display or some person wants to have it

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Speaker 17: in their personal collection. That's one thing. But at the

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Speaker 17: end of the day, you can harvest from from an animal.

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Speaker 17: What what what do you do with the sex trafficking victims,

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Speaker 17: because there's nothing really that you have. They have value

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Speaker 17: any longer, and so the really dark side to this

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Speaker 17: is that they are essentially killed and then disposed of

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Speaker 17: and these families never really know. You've got a very

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Speaker 17: little chance of finding someone to begin with in this

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Speaker 17: murky world, but then you make them disappear and the

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Speaker 17: family winds up being left alone with no answers in

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Speaker 17: the long run.

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Speaker 1: Seryl McCallum, what about it.

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Speaker 8: The sex traffickers and the poachers use the exact same route.

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Speaker 8: So whether it's an ivory tusk or a human, they

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Speaker 8: get them from A to B the exact same way.

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Speaker 8: So what Andro's boss is doing. If we can reduce

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Speaker 8: poaching by proxy. We're going to reduce human trafficking if

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Speaker 8: we can bust up these routes. I'll give you for instance, Nancy,

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Speaker 8: in Africa, they pay children with cocaine to steal sea

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Speaker 8: life and poke sea life. So you follow that cocaine,

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Speaker 8: it goes back to the human track occurs. It's all

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Speaker 8: connected the drugs, the guns, the people and the poaching.

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Speaker 1: Andrew Voss joining us from the Netherlands, founder CEO of

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Speaker 1: the Wildlife Forensic Academy, how do you see poaching being

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Speaker 1: connected to human sex trafficking?

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Speaker 10: Nancy? My answer is one hundred percent. Years. Poaching is

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Speaker 10: actually the root of a lot and a lot of problems.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 10: The biggest problem is that just five or ten between

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Speaker 10: five and ten percent of all poaches brought to court

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Speaker 10: are sentenced, just five to ten percent. That means ninety

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Speaker 10: five to ninety percent gets away, you know. So you

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Speaker 10: can kill an animal get away with it, and the

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Speaker 10: chance of being caught is very small, and the resources,

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Speaker 10: the revenue, sorry, the revenues are very very high. So

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Speaker 10: what you see, you know, you can kill an animal

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Speaker 10: get away with it, and the problem is there's a

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Speaker 10: lack of forensic knowledge, the lack of forensic knowledge as

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Speaker 10: spoke to prosecutors to judges and they are all sentencing

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Speaker 10: on marine crime. They have all the same problem in

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Speaker 10: the whole of Africa and what's the online problem? The

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Speaker 10: on theline problem is there are no training facilities.

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Speaker 1: The brutality and the vicious nature of poaching and other countries,

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Speaker 1: specifically Africa was brought to the forefront with a major

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Speaker 1: motion picture where the craw Dads Sing? Now, how did

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Speaker 1: that happen? Take a listen to our friends at the

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Speaker 1: Today Show.

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Speaker 18: Jumping from the page to the screen where the Crawdads Sing?

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Speaker 18: As a highly anticipated film based on the best selling novel.

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Speaker 1: A Maashka Sit Shelkim.

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Speaker 18: It's a fictional story about a murder in North Carolina

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Speaker 18: in the nineteen sixties, but in real life, Arthur Dhlia

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Speaker 18: Owens is facing questions about a deadly shooting in Africa

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Speaker 18: in the nineties. In the nineties, Delia and her then

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Speaker 18: husband Mark ran a conservation center in Zambia protecting elephants

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Speaker 18: from poachers. In nineteen ninety six, they were the subject

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Speaker 18: of an ABC documentary called Deadly Game, where one scene

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Speaker 18: shows an alleged poacher being fatally shot. The victim is

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Speaker 18: not identified. Neither is this shooter a mystery that was never.

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Speaker 1: Saw and another case of poaching violence. As you hear

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Speaker 1: these examples, imagine what these poachers would do to a

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking victim all alone from the US. Take a listen.

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Speaker 19: Somewhere around sunrise when I heard the tracker Neime and

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Speaker 19: a few others waking me up and saying in Swahili

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Speaker 19: that Diane Possi was dead. And I said, what you know?

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Speaker 19: And I said, come come with me, now, come immediately,

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Speaker 19: and I followed them down to her house. And as

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Speaker 19: we approached, you could see that the whole metal hut

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Speaker 19: on the side was bent and torn over and everything.

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Speaker 19: And when I went into the first thing I noticed

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Speaker 19: was that literally everything in the house was destroyed. I

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Speaker 19: mean it looked like somebody was going through the entire

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Speaker 19: house looking for something.

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Speaker 1: You get between those poachers and their money, whether they

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Speaker 1: are transporting drugs, guns, or people, and you die. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to more.

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Speaker 19: All the drawers would hold out, papers thrown everywhere, suitcases, undone,

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Speaker 19: chests that had things, and it were all ripped out.

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Speaker 19: Everything was at total shambles. And I went into her

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Speaker 19: bedroom and the mattress was kind of filted, and her

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Speaker 19: drawers were all ripped open, and I saw a gun

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Speaker 19: hanging out of one of them. And then I saw

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Speaker 19: her lying next to the bed. And as I got

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Speaker 19: closer and I looked at her face, I could see

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Speaker 19: this large gash in her face next to her body.

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Speaker 19: Was this poonda or the machete that you frequently see

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Speaker 19: the trackers with next to her with blood on it?

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Speaker 19: And her face was just literally her face was split open.

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Speaker 1: The anti poaching crusader meets horrible violent death. You were

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Speaker 1: just hearing Way McGuire and his discovering Diane Fossey. Imagine

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Speaker 1: a young girl like Maddie McCann, like Natalie Holloway. Of course,

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Speaker 1: I believe the two of them were killed locally, but

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Speaker 1: a great deal of investigation has gone into the possibility

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Speaker 1: that they were in fact sex trafficked and even removed

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Speaker 1: to another country. What chance would they stand against poachers

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Speaker 1: like this? To Andrew Voss joining us from the Netherlands,

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Speaker 1: who has spoken to the Hague at the Hague about

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Speaker 1: this matter, founder of the Wildlife Forensic Academy, why the

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Speaker 1: brutality amongst the poachers.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, the brutality is of course because the chance of

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Speaker 10: being caught is very very small, and the revenues are

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Speaker 10: very high, very high, you know, and just five or

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Speaker 10: ten percent of all poachers are being sentenced in court

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Speaker 10: due to a lack of forensicnoledge. So they are free

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Speaker 10: to do what they're free they like, And there's a

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00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 10: bunch of corruption there in government, so they are backed

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00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 10: up with hard politicians or police officers, so they have

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00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 10: a lot of chance to do what they want. You know,

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Speaker 10: it's a free game.

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Speaker 1: Guys. We're delving into the connection between poaching trails and

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00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: violent poachers in other countries, specifically Africa, and sex trafficking

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00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: victims in the US. They purportedly are ending up there.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Jeffrey Goldberg The New Yorker.

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Speaker 3: The bodies of the poachers are often left where they

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Speaker 3: fall for the animals to eat. Conservation morality Africa.

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Speaker 20: It's not every day that television news magazines show the

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00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 20: killing of another human so bluntly, so directly. One of

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00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 20: the many odd things about this shocking video is that

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00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 20: we the viewer, are not told by ABC where exactly

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00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 20: this happened, and we're not told who is doing the shooting.

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Speaker 20: This video, which is quite a short piece of this film,

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00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 20: is so decontextualized that it opens up many more questions.

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Speaker 20: Then it answers the questions that I was left with

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Speaker 20: when I first saw it, included was this man really

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Speaker 20: a poacher? Why was he alone? If he was a poacher,

455
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 20: who did the shooting?

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Speaker 1: The violent activity? The violent way of.

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Speaker 10: Why the problem with the killing of poaches is that

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00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 10: and the poaching teams got a military training for military

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00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 10: from the Great Britain in the US, so they didn't

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00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 10: get a police training. So if there's an incident, they

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Speaker 10: start shooting, and poaching is not an act of war.

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Speaker 10: Poaching is a selony. So you need actually policing to

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00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 10: bring these guys to chart and that's the reason why

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00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 10: there's a lot of shooting and no police investigation.

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Speaker 1: You name aunt Romani, a high profile lawyer joining US NIMA.

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Speaker 1: How do we stop it? You've seen the same thing

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Speaker 1: happening in Mexico, But how do we in the US

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Speaker 1: stop what's happening there with our citizens?

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Speaker 11: Nancy, we need to be a lot more aggressive prosecuting pens,

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00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 11: prosecuting John, I mean, a lot of this conduct unfortunately

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00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 11: been decriminalized here in this country. But they are real

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00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 11: victims that are trafficked. They're victims that are being trafficked

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Speaker 11: all over the world. These are young girls, sometimes boys,

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00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 11: So prosecutors need to be much more aggressive focusing on

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Speaker 11: these cases. If law enforcement arrests these individuals and it's

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00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 11: just a catch and release, that's not.

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Speaker 10: Going to work.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not. And to Joe Scott Morgan, Professor forensics,

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Speaker 1: how can we prove this case? It's beyond our jurisdiction,

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00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: but they are our citizens.

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Speaker 17: Well, you know, even if they are, if it's outside

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00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 17: of our jurisdiction, if it's in some foreign country, the

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00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 17: FBI still can get involved in these cases and bring

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00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 17: them the resources to bear with the nationals that are

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Speaker 17: investigating this cases. This has happened time and time again.

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Speaker 17: But to this point, it's it's critical that one of

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00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 17: the problems is is that you lose evidence along the way,

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00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 17: of critical forensic evidence that can be tied back because

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00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 17: any of these individuals are going to be utilizing the

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00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 17: same thing over and over and over again as far

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00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 17: as methodologies go. And as you know, Nancy with these

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00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 17: patterns that we develop in forensics, that's how we tie

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Speaker 17: things back scientifically, and so it's important for our federal

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Speaker 17: government to get involved because they have the resources to examine.

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Speaker 1: And they've got to go beyond our borders. Yes they do, guys,

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Speaker 1: if you have any information regarding human trafficking one eight

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Speaker 1: eight eight three seven three seven eight eight eight, or

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Speaker 1: the US Wildlife tip Line eight hundred three four four

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Speaker 1: ninety four five three. Thank you mister Voss for joining

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Speaker 1: us from the Netherlands. Get back friends,