Speaker 1: It takes courage to disrupt harassment while it's happening, and
Speaker 1: it takes agency and voice, and agency and voices what
Speaker 1: all girls and women around the world are entitled to.
Speaker 1: That is Ashley Judd. Over the years, she has become
Speaker 1: as well known for her activism and leadership as she
Speaker 1: is for her a list acting career. In she helped
Speaker 1: ignity firestorm that became the Me Too movement after being
Speaker 1: one of the first women to speak out about sexual
Speaker 1: harassment in Hollywood, and she has continued to crusade on
Speaker 1: behalf of social justice. She's a bold advocate for young
Speaker 1: people and for the vulnerable, and she has work to
Speaker 1: stem the global tide of violence against women. I'm a
Speaker 1: land forevere and this is Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear.
Speaker 1: We're bringing you one hundred of the world's most inspiring
Speaker 1: and history making women you need to hear. I sat
Speaker 1: down with Ashley Judd for a conversation as part of
Speaker 1: the podcast Seeking Peace, produced by the Georgetown Institute for Women,
Speaker 1: Peace and Security. Let's listen and learn why Ashley Judd
Speaker 1: is one of Seneca's one hundred Women to Hear. I
Speaker 1: know that you have literally traveled the world, meeting with
Speaker 1: many women and girls, some of whom have been victims
Speaker 1: of sexual violence and human trafficking. Early in two thousand
Speaker 1: and two, you made your first humanitarian trip to Southeast Asia.
Speaker 1: I wonder what happened there? Did it? Did it have
Speaker 1: any particular impact in setting your course going forward? It did?
Speaker 1: It was. It was both shattering and profoundly motivating. And
Speaker 1: I really went Milan because I simply was invited. And
Speaker 1: I was in this unique and strange position of being
Speaker 1: a well known person in in America and in some
Speaker 1: parts of the world, and an NGO called Population Services International,
Speaker 1: which has grassroots health programs and about seventy countries around
Speaker 1: the world, had reached out to me and asked if
Speaker 1: I would consider serving as an ambassador, representing in particular
Speaker 1: their HIV AIDS prevention programs. And at the time, I
Speaker 1: was one of one of, if not the highest paid
Speaker 1: female actors in the history of Hollywood, and that was
Speaker 1: something of which I wasn't even cognizant. I had become
Speaker 1: a working star in such a short amount of time,
Speaker 1: with my first movie, Ruby in Paradise, winning the Sundance
Speaker 1: Film Festival. That being in the and that acting world
Speaker 1: was just as abnormal as it can be. It was
Speaker 1: just my normal. But I wasn't particularly happy, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't fulfilled in some significant ways, and I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was wrong, but I was just kind of sick
Speaker 1: and tired of being sick and tired, and I knew
Speaker 1: that there was more. And I had almost joined the
Speaker 1: Peace Corps when I was twenty two years old, and
Speaker 1: I went to the different jungle, you know, Hollywood instead,
Speaker 1: And so this letter from from Population Services International reaching
Speaker 1: out to me came at a time when I had
Speaker 1: reached the up with which I could no longer put
Speaker 1: in the acting career. And I didn't know if it
Speaker 1: was a feminist agency. And I wrote them back this
Speaker 1: tristis on my beliefs in gender and sexual equality, and
Speaker 1: they said, yes, we're a feminist agency. They kind of
Speaker 1: sort of, I think, laughed a little bit at how
Speaker 1: idealistic and earnest I was. And it was a great match.
Speaker 1: And they said, okay, well your first trip is to
Speaker 1: the you know, brothels and pom pen and to the
Speaker 1: uh International HIV AIDS Conference in Bangkok. And they put
Speaker 1: so much trust in me, and I took that responsibility
Speaker 1: very very seriously. So my very first day was in
Speaker 1: this in this brothel, and I was actually being I
Speaker 1: was more being held by this transgender sex slave than
Speaker 1: I was holding her. And she was just weeping and
Speaker 1: telling me her whole story, and I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: my God, all I can do is bear witness to
Speaker 1: this reality and then do my my damn level best
Speaker 1: to share these stories on a global level, as well
Speaker 1: as details about grassroots solutions that can be taken to
Speaker 1: scale that help people and change norms and save lives.
Speaker 1: You know hearing you, and I know personally you have
Speaker 1: been to so many conflict affected areas UM, whether in
Speaker 1: Rwando or South Sudan or the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Speaker 1: You've been to Ukraine where the war still goes on
Speaker 1: in the East. I wonder you meet with the women.
Speaker 1: You understand what they're going through in their lives, the difficulties,
Speaker 1: what it's done to them. But have you also seen
Speaker 1: the impact UM that this violence has on the stability
Speaker 1: of communities and countries. Absolutely, sustainable peace really does begin
Speaker 1: with a woman's bodily integrity and sexual autonomy, her ability
Speaker 1: to be intact, to be whole, not to be violated,
Speaker 1: her ability to regulate her fertility so she can choose
Speaker 1: if and when in how many children to have, her
Speaker 1: ability to access essential sustenance and uh, you know, to
Speaker 1: be able to walk to get firewood, to go to
Speaker 1: lasuance and get her water, to be able to go
Speaker 1: to mills and agricultural fields without being raped, and then
Speaker 1: to take products tomorrow get And you know, sexual violence
Speaker 1: and conflict is used to humiliate and control ethnic groups
Speaker 1: and communities. And we also have to link it to
Speaker 1: some really big state factors like failed states, and in
Speaker 1: particular in DRC, the conflict mineral mining that is so
Speaker 1: tremendously horrible in the East and when you know, war
Speaker 1: and instability is profitable for a few, and those profiteers
Speaker 1: are directly linked to the daily mass atrocities that girls
Speaker 1: and women and some boys and men endure. Yes, and
Speaker 1: maybe you can talk a little bit more about what
Speaker 1: this hunt, if you will. For minerals, we know that
Speaker 1: the DRC is rich in minerals, and particularly culton, which
Speaker 1: is used in cell phones and other electronics, has led
Speaker 1: to tremendous sexual violence, uh towards women in the region.
Speaker 1: And this conflict has gone on literally for years and years. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's no sign that it's ending anytime soon. M have
Speaker 1: you seen solutions for justice that those who are perpetrating
Speaker 1: these crimes are paying for them in some way? The
Speaker 1: situation is both worsening and there are elements and degrees
Speaker 1: of hope. So in in DRC, while there have been
Speaker 1: measures implemented to reduce state violence towards vulnerable people, in
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen of the rapes committed against girls and
Speaker 1: women by police were of girls and women who were
Speaker 1: in custody, So you've got improvements. Yet you still have
Speaker 1: state actors and armed militia perpetrating the violence them selves.
Speaker 1: And there have been some prominent cases of prosecution, but
Speaker 1: the impunity is still largely there for both the you know,
Speaker 1: soldier on the or the armed militia person on the
Speaker 1: grassroots level as well as on the national level. So
Speaker 1: there's a couple of steps forward and a couple of
Speaker 1: steps back. And a lot of the hope I see
Speaker 1: is through safe spaces for girls and women operated by
Speaker 1: agencies like u n f PA, the United Nations Agency
Speaker 1: for Sexual and Reproductive Health, where girls and women can
Speaker 1: come and they can participate in a craft and a
Speaker 1: trade so they can generate some incomes through something that
Speaker 1: they make, and if they're able to have some income,
Speaker 1: they can buy firewood instead of having to go look
Speaker 1: for the firewood. But the psychocial programs are really what
Speaker 1: is so tremendous. There's a lot of trauma help and
Speaker 1: trauma work and trauma resolution that happens in those spaces
Speaker 1: where women can have strong female to female alliances and
Speaker 1: support each other. And there, you know, people get to
Speaker 1: tell their stories as well as sing and dance and
Speaker 1: find that resilience and that joy that is so improbable
Speaker 1: yet really does transform women's hearts and souls. I'm just
Speaker 1: thinking about this blind woman with whom I was visiting
Speaker 1: in South Sudan, and she was quite elderly, and she
Speaker 1: was asking me for some sandals and a blanket, and
Speaker 1: those were not things that I had to give to her.
Speaker 1: And I was just wrecked over the way she was
Speaker 1: sharing with me, and I started to cry, and she said, oh,
Speaker 1: my granddaughter, I can tell that you are crying. Don't
Speaker 1: worry about the sandals and the blanket. You've given me
Speaker 1: your heart, which is the best thing you could have
Speaker 1: given me. And those are the kinds of things that
Speaker 1: can happen in these safe spaces where girls and women
Speaker 1: can come together. Now that that is so real, and
Speaker 1: I just by your recounting it, I can only appreciate
Speaker 1: how much impact it had on you. Senecas one hunter
Speaker 1: women to hear, we'll be back after this short break.
Speaker 1: Why do you find it personally so important to advocate
Speaker 1: in this way? I was a vulnerable kid, so I
Speaker 1: think that it's very much embedded in my personal story.
Speaker 1: My parents loved and adored me, and my family didn't
Speaker 1: work particularly well and everyone was very distracted and I
Speaker 1: wasn't cared for in the way that I should have been. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: because of my own recovery and my parents beautiful humility
Speaker 1: and accountability, we are getting a massive redo. You know,
Speaker 1: my mom and I have a really tender and sweet relationship.
Speaker 1: My dad, I can't even repeat the things that he
Speaker 1: says to me because he's he's just the proudest dad
Speaker 1: in America, let's put it that way. He just loves
Speaker 1: and adores me. And you know, I mentioned that I
Speaker 1: was molested when I was seven. I was also raped
Speaker 1: twice when I was fourteen, and my parents weren't able
Speaker 1: to help or defend me. And so it really has
Speaker 1: become my life's work too, be that advocate for the
Speaker 1: for children, for youth, and for the vulnerable who may
Speaker 1: not otherwise have someone going to bat for them. And
Speaker 1: I also get so excited by the intellectual and practical
Speaker 1: solutions that I see because I'm an idealist and I
Speaker 1: I want peace, and I believe peace is possible, and
Speaker 1: we're not there yet, but peace can start in our
Speaker 1: own thoughts and actions. And I wanted you know, the
Speaker 1: bagvad Gita says, don't worry about the fruit of your actions,
Speaker 1: just do the next good, right, honest thing. There's that
Speaker 1: lovely quote. Even if the world we're going to fall
Speaker 1: apart tomorrow today, I would still plant my apple tree.
Speaker 1: I'm just really committed to doing the right thing to
Speaker 1: alleviate suffering in any way that I can. You know,
Speaker 1: you've also been recognized as one of the leaders in
Speaker 1: the Me Too movement, and I wonder how you see
Speaker 1: that movement, which is certainly had its impact across the
Speaker 1: United States, but increasingly around the world. Do you see
Speaker 1: a connection between that and the grassroots organizing that's been
Speaker 1: going on. I really do, Milan because when Toronto Burke
Speaker 1: said to herself on a mattress on the floor in
Speaker 1: her apartment twelve years ago, me too, she was tapping
Speaker 1: into that archetypal pan human need to be listened to,
Speaker 1: to be witnessed, to be understood, and to be validated.
Speaker 1: Bob Keegan at the Harvard Graduate School of Education says,
Speaker 1: when we really see another person and witness them, we
Speaker 1: are recruited to their welfare and we can't unsee what
Speaker 1: we have seen. And when women share their stories and
Speaker 1: have the identification, there's something strengthening about that acknowledgement that
Speaker 1: allows for a little healing and a little possibility to
Speaker 1: enter in that kind of dialogue. You know, they're the
Speaker 1: consciousness raising sharing circles. You know, from feminism in the
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. There's just a power in it that I
Speaker 1: that I can't over I can neither explain it adequately
Speaker 1: nor overstate how important it is. And in South Sudan,
Speaker 1: you know, we essentially had women's march in a refugee camp.
Speaker 1: We were singing and stomping and dancing in the space,
Speaker 1: and you know, we were raising a kind of high
Speaker 1: holy hell. And that's what me too, is about reclaim,
Speaker 1: enjoy and radical community healing. Yeah, that's again so well put.
Speaker 1: In conclusion, let me just raise the two thousand and
Speaker 1: eighteen Nobel Peace Prize because it was awarded to a
Speaker 1: Yazdi rape survivor and activist, Nadia Murad, someone we've come
Speaker 1: to know at Georgetown, as well as the Congolese gynecologist
Speaker 1: Dr Dennis mcgreeggy, and I, like so many, saw this
Speaker 1: award as something that can be truly inspirational besides something
Speaker 1: that was well deserved by the two of them, because
Speaker 1: it really recognized how sexual abuse is being used as
Speaker 1: a tool of conflict and why it critically needs to
Speaker 1: be addressed. And I wonder if that Nobel Peace Prize
Speaker 1: award to them, how you felt about that, and also
Speaker 1: whether you think it can help in some ways to
Speaker 1: mobilize the international community around these issues in the kind
Speaker 1: of way that you've been discussing in our conversation here.
Speaker 1: I felt a lot of awe and joy in the
Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize being awarded to those individuals, and I
Speaker 1: think it does critically raise global awareness about the use
Speaker 1: of sexual violence and conflict. And I've had the pleasure
Speaker 1: of meeting Dr McCaughey a few times, and I visited
Speaker 1: his clinic and actually attended fishual repair surgery in the clinic,
Speaker 1: which you know, is a really eye opening experience because
Speaker 1: they're washing up preparing for, you know, a really invasive
Speaker 1: surgery in the vagina with a bar of soap and
Speaker 1: water that came from it's in a pail that came
Speaker 1: from the river, and the electricity went out a couple
Speaker 1: of times during the surgery. And knowing that the Nobel
Speaker 1: commit recognizes individuals who are both survivors themselves and helpers
Speaker 1: who whose life work is prioritizing the healing of survivors,
Speaker 1: makes a deep statement to all of us that it's
Speaker 1: something about which we should care. It's historically tragic and wrong,
Speaker 1: and we can be on the right side of history
Speaker 1: by doing everything in our might to eradicate sexual violence. Well, Ashley,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for this, for taking the time.
Speaker 1: Keep up that idealism that you mentioned that you so
Speaker 1: feel deeply, keep inspiring, inspiring us, inspiring so many with
Speaker 1: whom you meet in very difficult circumstances around the world,
Speaker 1: and keep making a difference. Thank you so much. You're
Speaker 1: very kind to me. Milan, Thank you. That is true.
Speaker 1: Current Ashley Judd has much to teach us about finding
Speaker 1: our voice and speaking out on behalf of others. Three
Speaker 1: things stick with me for my conversation with Ashley Judd.
Speaker 1: When you know what your purpose is, you can find
Speaker 1: the strength to make change in yourself and the world.
Speaker 1: Ashley Judd has had a high profile Hollywood career, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't enough. She found her true purpose working on
Speaker 1: behalf of the exploited and vulnerable. Second, Ashley reminds us
Speaker 1: how much good we can do simply by recognizing other
Speaker 1: people's needs. As she said, there is a human need
Speaker 1: to be listened to, to be witnessed, to be understood,
Speaker 1: and to be validated. Finally, we can achieve peace in
Speaker 1: the world. Ashley tells us that it starts in our
Speaker 1: own thoughts and actions, as she said, and just do
Speaker 1: the next good, honest thing. You can hear more conversations
Speaker 1: with women leaders who are making change on the Seeking
Speaker 1: Peace podcast from the Georgetown Institute for Women, Peace and Security,
Speaker 1: and tune in next time to hear one hundred women
Speaker 1: to hear. Learn about our next featured woman and discover
Speaker 1: why she's one of Seneca's one Women to Hear. Seneca's
Speaker 1: one hundred Women to Hear is a collaboration between the
Speaker 1: Seneca Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support
Speaker 1: from founding partner Pung. If you like what you heard
Speaker 1: on the show, rate and review it on Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: we hope you'll join us for our next episode of
Speaker 1: one hundred Women to Hear, where we can all listen,
Speaker 1: learn and get inspired. Have a great day, doctor, Doctor
Speaker 1: Patter