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Speaker 1: Before we get started, please rate and review our show

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Speaker 1: that helps people find us. With allegations of sexual misconduct

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Speaker 1: and reports of a cover up swirling around him, longtime

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Speaker 1: w w E chairman Vince McMahon recently announced his retirement

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Speaker 1: from the company he helped build into the biggest in

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Speaker 1: pro wrestling. On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly, s

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Speaker 1: I S in house wrestling expert Justin Barrasso joins me

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Speaker 1: to discuss the accusations made against McMahon, where his retirement

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Speaker 1: leaves the w w E, whether a e W is

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Speaker 1: a legitimate competitor, and the storylines to watch during this

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Speaker 1: weekend's SummerSlam. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports Illustrated

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Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrating Weekly. Justin Barrasso.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Sports Illustrated Weekly, My pleasure, Thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me. Thank you for doing this. We have SummerSlam

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Speaker 1: this weekend. We want to discuss w w E versus

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Speaker 1: a e W with you, but first we have to

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Speaker 1: address the big news. Last week, the man who made

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Speaker 1: the w w E, Vince McMahon, announced his retirement, breaking news.

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Speaker 1: Now w w E chairman and CEO, Vince McMahon is

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Speaker 1: retiring from wrestling as the board of the company investigates

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Speaker 1: a three million dollar payment made to a former employee

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Speaker 1: with whom he allegedly had an affair. The w w

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Speaker 1: E says that McMahon voluntarily stepped back from that role,

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Speaker 1: and a statement McMahon says he will cooperate with the investigation.

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Speaker 1: The board's investigation also reportedly uncovered non disclosure agreements from

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Speaker 1: other former employees, some of whom alleged misconduct against McMahon

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Speaker 1: and another executive. Now he's out before we get to

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Speaker 1: the reasons behind it in the allegations broad strokes here

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Speaker 1: justin How big a deal is this that the w

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Speaker 1: w E won't have Vince McMahon anymore. That's the million

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Speaker 1: dollar question. You know, Vince is still overseeing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he he owns the majority of the shares, right, so

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Speaker 1: I don't think he fully removes himself from the w

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Speaker 1: w E. I also don't know if he'll be making decisions.

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Speaker 1: You know, from all intents and purposes, he still has

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Speaker 1: his office in their corporate building. If he packs that

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Speaker 1: up and leaves, maybe that's the story. But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I you know, the tell here will be people like

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Speaker 1: Bruce Pritchard and people like Kevin Dunn and Vince's loyal

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Speaker 1: lieutenants today stay part of the company. Did they did

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Speaker 1: They still have a hand in Creative today, still handle

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Speaker 1: the product on television. I don't know if Vince's is

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Speaker 1: fully done, or if if retiring was the best way

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Speaker 1: for him to keep power, as backwards as that sounds,

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Speaker 1: but if there are more stories coming out, if there

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Speaker 1: are more n d A s, and I mean the

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Speaker 1: ones that already and people said are worth their worst, well,

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Speaker 1: it's like they're already pretty bad. And these are some

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Speaker 1: very unflattering and that's putting it lightly. Allegations that came

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Speaker 1: out that no one from w W E. Mcmah included

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Speaker 1: as denied. So I'm not entirely sure he's stepping down.

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Speaker 1: And I'm curious to see where we are in three

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Speaker 1: months and six months and beyond in and sooner than that,

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Speaker 1: curious to see what happens with Vince's again loyal lieutenants.

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Speaker 1: I just don't see him fading away into the night.

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Speaker 1: But the change is big. Triple Ah, Paula Neck as

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Speaker 1: the head of Creative is a big story. I think

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Speaker 1: the fan base, you know, the weekly viewers. He's less,

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Speaker 1: it has less to do with CEO, and it's Nick

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Speaker 1: con and Stephanie mcmhon is co CEOs. I don't need

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Speaker 1: that impacts are effects the weekly products so much, but

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Speaker 1: the creative would and that's Paul of Extra H who

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Speaker 1: who's got a really dynamic mind for it. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: Vince obviously built w W into what it was, I

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Speaker 1: think creatively as time has passed, but I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: he's he's passed in w W eight, so he's about

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Speaker 1: to turn seventy seven. If it wasn't for the sexual

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Speaker 1: misconduct allegations that have come to light, do you think

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Speaker 1: that McMahon would have And I know that you're not

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Speaker 1: really sold on him actually retiring, but do you think

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Speaker 1: that he would even go through the idea the feint

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Speaker 1: of retiring. No, Yeah, it all depends with the board.

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Speaker 1: It all depends on on your sponsors and and what

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Speaker 1: sponsors drop. Maybe they got negative feedback from Fox, maybe

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Speaker 1: they got negative feedback from NBC Sports, R, NBC Universal.

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Speaker 1: I think that's you know, worth investigating, and that's worth

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Speaker 1: seeing if there's anything to it. Also, you know there's

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Speaker 1: an internal investigation on going with Vincman in all this

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Speaker 1: alleged misconduct. I've been told from inside w W it

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Speaker 1: will continue. But John, what happens to it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: how do you punish a man that technically doesn't work there? Right?

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Speaker 1: So I think that again him stepping away was for

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Speaker 1: his his longevity in w w E. Age aside, I

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Speaker 1: don't think age is a deterrent for vinsc Man. He's

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Speaker 1: a known workaholic. For him, just a one day say

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Speaker 1: I'm retired. It certainly seems like goes against everything that

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Speaker 1: that he stands for, especially to be sort of pushed

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Speaker 1: out by by by passed wrongdoings. So the w w

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Speaker 1: E obviously has been defined by Vince McMahon four decades

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Speaker 1: you mentioned Triple H. Stephanie McMahon obviously still in the mix.

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Speaker 1: Where does all this leave the company? Now? What kind

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Speaker 1: of shape is the w w E in never been better?

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Speaker 1: And that that's to me, that's another reason why I

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Speaker 1: ve ben stepped down or retired temporarily or whatever the

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Speaker 1: case may be. It is a runaway train making record profit.

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Speaker 1: They can't step on their own foot, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: So get out of your own way and that's I

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Speaker 1: think what the retirement did too. You know, it's just

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Speaker 1: so unique that what two weeks ago there was you know,

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Speaker 1: the USA today a report that McMahon was vital to

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Speaker 1: these to the to the to the future of w

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Speaker 1: w E, and then he retired. What changed in those

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Speaker 1: two weeks. But I think that they're making so much

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Speaker 1: money and they're having such great profit from multiple different sources.

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Speaker 1: And as we get into the difference between w w

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Speaker 1: E and A e W, it's one of them. WWB

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Speaker 1: is their hands and making money in so many different areas,

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Speaker 1: whether it's the Kingdom of Saudi, whether it's Peacock, whether

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Speaker 1: it's Fox. I mean, there's just so many different revenue

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Speaker 1: sources for w w E. Part of the goal is

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Speaker 1: just don't mess it up. And I think part of

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Speaker 1: that is with Vince uh that negative press and that

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Speaker 1: continued negative press. If it didn't hurt him right away

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Speaker 1: or the company right away, it's certainly what had the

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Speaker 1: potential to in the future. So never been better for

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Speaker 1: the w w E making a ton of money. They've

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Speaker 1: been the dominant force in pro wrestling for forty years now.

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Speaker 1: There was a brief challenge from w CW Monday Night

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Speaker 1: Wars back in the day. But you mentioned a e W.

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Speaker 1: I want to get into that a little bit. A

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Speaker 1: W has gotten this foothold and the swallowing. I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: how they're doing and whether or not you see them

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Speaker 1: as a legit, alternative and competitive. Yeah. I think that.

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Speaker 1: So it's funny a WS. It's only been three years,

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Speaker 1: and but they are they are forced to be reckoned with.

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Speaker 1: And I think that a W is a breath of

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Speaker 1: fresh air for pro wrestling. It's always good to have competition.

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Speaker 1: And you could say, well before there was competition, but

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Speaker 1: you know, legitimate competition in North America broadcast on T

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Speaker 1: n T with big financial backers. I think that a

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Speaker 1: W originally or initially was the answer to w w

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Speaker 1: E s problems. If you didn't like w W creative

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Speaker 1: or the way the weekly television was set up, you

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Speaker 1: could watch AW and really it would be the answer

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Speaker 1: to to those problems. The roster has changed so much

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Speaker 1: in a W, and the not the philosophy so much,

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Speaker 1: but the the weekly program has changed, and they brought

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Speaker 1: in a lot of former w W E stars down

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, six hey TV afraid. I think they're

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Speaker 1: more of an alternative. Now, if you love pro wrestling,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see things in a w you just wouldn't

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Speaker 1: see in w w E. And one of that is

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Speaker 1: you like hearing Jim Ross's voice, so you like that

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Speaker 1: old you know certain w w B talent, but but

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Speaker 1: Chris Jericho is still there. But Daniel Bryan was a

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Speaker 1: megastar in w W E is presented extremely differently in

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Speaker 1: AW ways he wouldn't be in w w E. Kenny

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Speaker 1: Omega can be Kenny Omega in a w Orange Cassidy,

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Speaker 1: a character that just wouldn't exist in w w E

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Speaker 1: can be Orange Cassidy. M j F can be heinous

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Speaker 1: on the mic at times which he couldn't be in

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Speaker 1: ww E. The Young Bucks can be the Young Bucks

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Speaker 1: fd R and b FDR. I do think it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a old it's it's a pro wrestling company, where

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Speaker 1: w w E is sports entertainment, and those are two

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Speaker 1: very even though they're both taking place in the same atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: same same realm, they're two very different worlds. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm interested when you talk about the roster turnover and

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Speaker 1: a e W one of the guys who helped create

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Speaker 1: a W was Cody Rhodes and a game fame in

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Speaker 1: the w W E. He left to go to a

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Speaker 1: W help create a e W. A was a vice

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Speaker 1: president there, had a reality show that it was attached

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Speaker 1: to that company, and then he recently went back to

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Speaker 1: the w W E. Was the first affection from a

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Speaker 1: e W to the w W E. What moment we

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Speaker 1: all witness WrestleMania Saturday, he shocking return up the radical

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Speaker 1: son Tony Rhodes to couple you W E. And I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering what you think that signifies whether or not it

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Speaker 1: was a blow to a e W or whether or

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Speaker 1: not it's signals that maybe w W E is paying

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Speaker 1: attention to a e W. And uh, maybe there was

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Speaker 1: some concern there w W E. And they can tell

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Speaker 1: you all day and all night that they're not paying attention.

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Speaker 1: They certainly are. Cody Rhodes is a great example. Cody

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Speaker 1: was a w W E talent. Cody came up in

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Speaker 1: the system. Cody, I know he's a you know, he'll

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Speaker 1: always be known as Dusty Rhodes on and um the

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Speaker 1: legendary Rhodes family. But Cody was cut his teeth in

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Speaker 1: w W E. So I think he's a little bit different.

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Speaker 1: And again, the Cody situations unique because now he's able

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Speaker 1: to produce documentaries on his father and be connected to

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Speaker 1: that road's name, the I p s that w w

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Speaker 1: E owns, and the history and the footage you know,

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Speaker 1: WWS the vast majority of Dusty's career, the footage right,

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Speaker 1: the tape footage. So it just made so much sense

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Speaker 1: for him, and it's a new opportunity for Cody. I

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Speaker 1: think that he realized that at this point in his

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Speaker 1: career he's in his wrestling prime, which if he were

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Speaker 1: a baseball player, he be, but you know, ten years behind.

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Speaker 1: But in pro wrestling you developed late and mature a

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Speaker 1: little bit later. That's where Cody is right now. He's

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Speaker 1: never been better. I think that he made the right

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Speaker 1: choice for him. He can be something he's always wanted

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Speaker 1: to be, and that's w w E Champion. Yes, he

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Speaker 1: was one of the founding executive vice presidents and I

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Speaker 1: can't picture a w without him. But a W is

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Speaker 1: Tony Khan's company, and he had Cony Keny Omega and

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Speaker 1: the young Bucks who are vastly talented, and Cody Rhodes

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Speaker 1: is his four executive vice presidents. Their roles have changed

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Speaker 1: significantly throughout the years, but throughout the last three years,

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Speaker 1: and I think Cody realized he was at this point

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Speaker 1: in his career better off being a full time pro

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Speaker 1: wrestler and not pro wrestler slash executive. So Cody is

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Speaker 1: a big defection, but there's no one like him in

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Speaker 1: the sense that he had the background, he had the

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Speaker 1: pedigree in w w E. He left on bad terms.

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Speaker 1: There's a chance to to make it right. I think

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Speaker 1: that Cody's in the unique circumstances in terms of you

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Speaker 1: made a really good point about what's it like for

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Speaker 1: WW to take a talent from a W I think

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Speaker 1: it shows that hey, this goes both ways and that

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Speaker 1: we're looking at you too. I think that was noticed

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Speaker 1: in AW signing it UH talent the longer deals. But

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Speaker 1: I think that w w E is certainly paying attention.

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Speaker 1: Cody maybe the first big name, but he won't be

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Speaker 1: the last one that WW flux from AW. Alright, so

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Speaker 1: before we move on to this weekend in summer Slam storylines,

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Speaker 1: what's your prediction then for the w w E versus

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Speaker 1: a a W rivalry, what what's the what's the high

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Speaker 1: water mark for a w Do you think in the

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Speaker 1: next few years, Well, they're gonna need a streaming service

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna They've got a great I mean to be,

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Speaker 1: to have Turner behind you, to have t n T

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Speaker 1: and TBS behind you. I think they just need to

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Speaker 1: keep growing and they need to be what w w

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Speaker 1: E is and w t B already exists in there,

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Speaker 1: the most powerful entity in that space. AW needs to

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Speaker 1: be the home for pro wrestling, and that's who they

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Speaker 1: That's who they are, and that's what they can need

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Speaker 1: to continue being. Again, every promotion, it's every sports team.

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Speaker 1: You know when you say you're you're one big star

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Speaker 1: away from a title. Both those groups are one big

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Speaker 1: star away from from going to that next level, to

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Speaker 1: reaching where w CW did with the n w OH.

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Speaker 1: But it's tough to find that that magic. It's tough

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Speaker 1: to find that secret sauce and find that that star.

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Speaker 1: But they're both one star away from being even bigger.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what AW needs to find that one star.

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Speaker 1: Whether it is it Kenny Omega's Wardlow, who is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it Britt Baker? Is it is it someone we

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Speaker 1: don't know yet? But but continue to develop and again

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Speaker 1: developing that identity as the home for pro wrestling. For

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Speaker 1: w w E, I think we're going to see more

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Speaker 1: of the same. Uh, you know, creatively, they haven't been

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Speaker 1: They've been in a rut these past couple of years,

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Speaker 1: and part of it is Monday Night ros three hours

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Speaker 1: every Monday just an hour too long. So they need

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Speaker 1: to and we see so many rematches on a weekly

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Speaker 1: week basis. You mentioned the same face as some of

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Speaker 1: them will get. We'll see at SummerSlam You've got for

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Speaker 1: the Universal Championship, Roman Reigns and Brock Lesner. I'm not

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Speaker 1: super excited about this because of what you just said.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like we're recycling the same things

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Speaker 1: and the same storylines over and over again. Brock Lessner

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Speaker 1: at this point, he's closer to a a r P

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Speaker 1: membership and retirement. Uh. Is that part of the problem here,

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Speaker 1: I'd think careful of Brock's listening, but tell it today,

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Speaker 1: great pace. He's a big fan of Sports Illustrated Weekly.

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Speaker 1: I was. I was at SmackDown Boston on Friday and

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Speaker 1: Brock came out and let the crowd up. And he's

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Speaker 1: still special at what he does. But again, you just

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Speaker 1: hit the nail on the head. We've seen this before,

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Speaker 1: multiple times, multiple variations. We've seen it as with Roman

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Speaker 1: is the good guy and Brock is the heel and

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Speaker 1: vice versa. And I suppose it's different now with the

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Speaker 1: last man standing, but really that's just to me and out.

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Speaker 1: Brock doesn't have to get pinned on Sunday to lose

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Speaker 1: this mention. I don't know how he loses a USA

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Speaker 1: is involved or But again I think it's we've seen

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Speaker 1: it right, We've seen an iteration of this. I think

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Speaker 1: that in the original plan was Randy Orton for SummerSlam,

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Speaker 1: and that would have been fun. But Morton has got

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Speaker 1: a back issue, he's off the card, he's off the

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Speaker 1: weekly programming for now, maybe through the end of the year.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I wish we'd seen something different, whether it

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Speaker 1: was fth rawlins, we just saw that riddle to get

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Speaker 1: a title mat title opportunity. I wish we saw more,

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Speaker 1: something different because we've seen Roman and Brock so many times.

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Speaker 1: But I do think the title does not change hands,

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Speaker 1: which makes me wonder, you know, in terms of booking

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Speaker 1: a card, if I'm guessing that made events the show,

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Speaker 1: So what happens, so titles will change. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that the street profits will take the titles from the

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Speaker 1: us so's. I think we're gonna see a split there.

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Speaker 1: I think we see montes Ford, who is the next

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Speaker 1: potentially huge breakout star. Uh turn heel because those the

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Speaker 1: best baby faces always start as heels. To me, it's

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Speaker 1: the women's titles matches that are really interesting Live. Morgan

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Speaker 1: needs much more than five weeks to be champion, to

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Speaker 1: cement herself, establish herself as a major player in w

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Speaker 1: w E. But it just feels like from watching the

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Speaker 1: weekly product that Rohnda Rousey is being positioned to reclaim

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Speaker 1: that title. And if that's the case, it's almost like,

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Speaker 1: why did you waste that the money in the bank

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Speaker 1: cash in so quickly on live? If she was just

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Speaker 1: gonna drive it back later that month and Becky Lynch

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Speaker 1: and Bianca bel A or what happens there. I think

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Speaker 1: that's a really interesting match too. We said that last

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Speaker 1: year at summers Lam. We saw that at WrestleMania. They

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Speaker 1: were fantastic. I think that's obviously a match to watch too.

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Speaker 1: If Becky doesn't regain the belt, where does she go there? Um?

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Speaker 1: I think she does, but I think we'll see titles out.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna need to see titles change because

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Speaker 1: the Belts are staying on Roman. Alright, So you mentioned

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Speaker 1: some of the guys that we have seen over and

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Speaker 1: over again. Logan Paul recently signed with the company, and

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Speaker 1: Logan Paul have come up low before we even got

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Speaker 1: on the air. He was surprisingly good at WrestleMania. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he's got a little rivalry going with the Miss look.

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Speaker 1: I hate the pulse. We've had a long conversation about

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Speaker 1: this with our production team behind the scenes. I was

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Speaker 1: I was pleasantly surprised one in his in ring ability

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Speaker 1: and how much heat he got. What do you make

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Speaker 1: of Logan Paul? What's his future with the company? You know,

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Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see. You can really hide people

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Speaker 1: like Rick Flare is gonna return match on Sunday the

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Speaker 1: day after SummerSlam. He's seventy three. You can hide someone

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Speaker 1: in a tag match, which is what they did with

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Speaker 1: Logan Paul at WrestleMania. I'm really I think it's unique

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Speaker 1: that they went one on one and I think the

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Speaker 1: miss can can carry Miss can certainly carry a match

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Speaker 1: and and highlight a guy but I would have thought

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Speaker 1: that tag team had more life in them and that

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Speaker 1: way it would have protected Paul longer. Maybe he's ready

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Speaker 1: for a one on one match. It'll be really interesting

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Speaker 1: after this, Like he's not going to challenge Roman Reigns.

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Speaker 1: But what do you do with a guy like that?

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Speaker 1: Like that's a big star, crossover star, whether you like

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Speaker 1: him or you don't. But I think making his moments

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Speaker 1: relevant like post miss, it will be really interesting to

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Speaker 1: see where they could he have a program with Kevin

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Speaker 1: Owens that could be really fun. And what can he do?

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Speaker 1: Is he limited? I imagine he's somewhat limited in the ring.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know he's He's taken on all sorts

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Speaker 1: of challenges, whether it's Floyd Mayweather or whoever it may

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Speaker 1: be in the ring, but wrestling is unique, so I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I think that I wouldn't necessarily say the

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Speaker 1: skies the limit, but will the crowd get behind him?

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Speaker 1: It'll be He to me is the perfect villain. You know,

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Speaker 1: he was booed the minute he came out, and they'll

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Speaker 1: build up to WrestleMania. So I hope they read the

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Speaker 1: room too and not just say because he's a celebrity.

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Speaker 1: He should be a fan favorite, like come on, You've

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Speaker 1: got I don't know if he minds being booed in

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Speaker 1: w w E like Rhonda roused. He does allegedly doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to get boots you wants to be a Davy

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Speaker 1: bass which is a shame because Rhonda could be this

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Speaker 1: industry altering villain. I think the same about Logan Paul.

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Speaker 1: So will they listen to the crowd or will they

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Speaker 1: try to dictate what happens? And that, to me is

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Speaker 1: the really interesting story with Logan Paul. A lot going

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Speaker 1: on in the w w E right now and in

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Speaker 1: pro wrestling in general. Read his pro wrestling dispatches on

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Speaker 1: SI dot com. He's got the SI strap for a reason.

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Speaker 1: Justin Barrasso, thanks for us. What a pleasure. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. Thanks are listening, and a reminder to please

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Speaker 1: rate and review us wherever you listen. It helps people

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Speaker 1: find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows, and for more

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Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI

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Speaker 1: dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced

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Speaker 1: by Jordan Rozsieri, Jessica Rmoski, and Isaac Lee, who was

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Speaker 1: also our sound engineer. Our senior producer is Dan Bloom.

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Speaker 1: Our acting senior producer is Harry sward Out. Our executive

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Speaker 1: producers are Scott Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme

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Speaker 1: song is by Nolan Schneider. And if you've stuck around

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Speaker 1: this long, we leave you with this. He's about Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: I sent my tongue hold on, all right, here we go.

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Speaker 1: I don't need a tongue to talk. It's totally fine.