Speaker 1: Look out. It's only films to be buried with. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome to films to be buried with. My name
Speaker 1: is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian, an actor, a writer,
Speaker 1: a director, an al ring and I love films. As
Speaker 1: Mark Frost once said, a real mystery can't be solved,
Speaker 1: not completely. It's always just out of reach, like a
Speaker 1: light around the corner. You might catch a glimpse of
Speaker 1: what it reveals, feel its warmth, but you can't know
Speaker 1: the heart of it.
Speaker 2: Not really.
Speaker 1: That's what gives it value. It can't be cracked. It's
Speaker 1: bigger than you and me, bigger than everything we know.
Speaker 1: I will never fully understand what Holly Motives is really about,
Speaker 1: but I don't really want to for fear of losing
Speaker 1: its magic on me. It's absolutely right, Mark Frost. Every
Speaker 1: week I'm by a special guest over. I tell them
Speaker 1: they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life
Speaker 1: through the films that meant the most of them. Previous
Speaker 1: guests include Barry Jenkins, Mark Frost, Sharon Stone and even
Speaker 1: Clad Blambles. But this week it's the brilliant actor, winemaker
Speaker 1: and now podcaster and all time legend mister Kyle mcgloughlin.
Speaker 1: Head over to the Patreon at patreon dot com forward
Speaker 1: slash Brett Goldstein, where you get next to twenty five
Speaker 1: minutes with Kyle, where we talk secrets of Twin Peaks
Speaker 1: The Return, we talk about beginnings and endings. You get
Speaker 1: the whole episode, uncut and ad free and as a video.
Speaker 1: Check it out over at patreon dot com forward slash
Speaker 1: Brett Goldstein with all the other episodes. So this is
Speaker 1: a huge one for me. Kyle mcgloughlin is one of
Speaker 1: my favorite actors. He has been legendary and so many things,
Speaker 1: from Blue Velvet to June, to Desperate Housewives, to Sex
Speaker 1: and the City to the hidden but most influential of all.
Speaker 1: He plays special Agent Dell Cooper in Twin Peaks and
Speaker 1: Twin Peaks The Return. Those of you who know me
Speaker 1: will know what a huge part of my brain is
Speaker 1: taken up with Twin Peaks. I'd say my brain is
Speaker 1: fifty percent twim Peaks and fifty percent sort of trying
Speaker 1: to function with the rest of my day. I love
Speaker 1: Twin Peaks so fucking much. I saw it far too young.
Speaker 1: If forever walks my brain and so to have the
Speaker 1: main and constant David Lynch Mews on the show was
Speaker 1: almost too much for me, and I think you can
Speaker 1: hear that in the episode. I'm very over excited and
Speaker 1: try and not set I love you every ten minutes,
Speaker 1: but you know it's very clear what's really going on.
Speaker 1: You can you can hear it. I'm really grateful to
Speaker 1: Kyle for doing the show and for being so patient
Speaker 1: and indulgent with all my Twin Peaks thoughts and questions.
Speaker 1: If you haven't seen Twin Peaks and twin Peaks the Return,
Speaker 1: you've got to watch them, and you should probably watch
Speaker 1: them before you listen to this episode because we go
Speaker 1: in deep on all of it. He also is a winemaker.
Speaker 1: You can buy his wine Pursued by a Bear. And
Speaker 1: also he has a new podcast himself coming out. It's
Speaker 1: coming out this week, starts this week. It's called Varnum Town.
Speaker 1: It's a true crime podcast. You should subscribe and listen
Speaker 1: and love it. I think it's ten episodes and so
Speaker 1: far it is fucking brilliant. Anyway, I just got to say,
Speaker 1: having had co creator of Twin Peaks Mark Frost on
Speaker 1: the show a couple of years ago, and now Kyle
Speaker 1: I've now got to meet two of my old timer
Speaker 1: heroes and turns out fucking wonderful people. So meet your heroes.
Speaker 1: I guess that's the moral of the story. Anyway. We
Speaker 1: recorded this on Zoom recently. I really think you're gonna
Speaker 1: love it. So that is it for now. I very
Speaker 1: much hope you enjoy episode two hundred and eighty four
Speaker 1: of Films to be Buried With. Hello, and welcome to
Speaker 1: Films to be Buried With. It is I Brett Goldstein,
Speaker 1: and I am joined today by an actor, a wine maker,
Speaker 1: a podcaster, a legend, a hero, a twin peakser a
Speaker 1: blue velveter a Juna, A Sex and the City, a
Speaker 1: desperate housewife, sir, a show girls, a Twin Peaks, the Returner,
Speaker 1: A everything you've ever loved, he's in it. He changed
Speaker 1: all of your lives. Can you believe he's here? I can't.
Speaker 1: He's one the great, one of the all time. Here
Speaker 1: is of all time? Could you believe he's here? He
Speaker 1: really is? It's him? Please, welcome to the show. The brilliant,
Speaker 1: It's calm, a bag man.
Speaker 2: Whoa and I am laughing my eyes up.
Speaker 3: That was perhaps the best introduction I have ever received.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, you so kind, very kind.
Speaker 1: Wow, Kyle, it is so wonderful to see you. I'm
Speaker 1: going to have to bore you by telling the people
Speaker 1: listening at home if anyone has ever followed this podcast,
Speaker 1: they know that Twin Peaks is as big a thing
Speaker 1: in my life as the Muppets. Like i'd say that
Speaker 1: if you if you didn't define me as two things
Speaker 1: culture wise, it's it's the Muppets and Twin Peaks.
Speaker 2: That's perfect.
Speaker 1: And when I was eight, I came home, me and
Speaker 1: my sister came home from something and my dad. We
Speaker 1: went say alo to my dad and he was watching
Speaker 1: the very first episode of Twin Peaks. It was like
Speaker 1: two minutes in, and we went to say hello, and
Speaker 1: he went and we sat down and we watched it,
Speaker 1: and we were so fucking scared and we were so addicted,
Speaker 1: and then we watched the whole thing, and I think
Speaker 1: it's why we're the way we are. And God bless you, and.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy to hear that it's a show.
Speaker 3: It had such an impact back in the day, and
Speaker 3: I hear these stories is your beautiful story from people,
Speaker 3: and it's just a great reminder of the power of
Speaker 3: David Lynch, you know, and that story in particular.
Speaker 1: So I had Mark Frost on the show. By the way,
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell people, if you don't mind, you've
Speaker 1: also been incredibly lovely to me. I met you at
Speaker 1: an event and we said hello and we were vaguely
Speaker 1: stayed in touch. And then you were in London on
Speaker 1: my birthday and you and your lovely wife invited me
Speaker 1: for a coffee and I came and had a coffee
Speaker 1: and it was literally like a Make a Wish foundation
Speaker 1: because I just sat for an hour and a half
Speaker 1: and asked you questions about David Linen. It was so
Speaker 1: generous and you bought me an ice cream.
Speaker 2: What a day the birthday that you'll remember.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know you.
Speaker 3: Gotta celebrate on your birthday. Well, I thank you.
Speaker 4: You know I am a huge fan of yours as well.
Speaker 4: So it was a mutual love fest that we had
Speaker 4: over an ice cream Sunday of some kind.
Speaker 2: It was. It was a lovely, lovely, lovely day. Thank you.
Speaker 1: But if you will forgive me, because no one else
Speaker 1: was listening and felt I felt as we were having
Speaker 1: that conversation, I was like, this is so unfair that
Speaker 1: I'm getting to have this all to myself, so I
Speaker 1: would like to repeat a couple of those questions so
Speaker 1: that people can enjoy them, which is like, I'm so
Speaker 1: obsessed with Twin Peaks, and I'm more even kind of
Speaker 1: more obsessed with the return because it's so unusual for
Speaker 1: something to come back twenty five years later and be
Speaker 1: fucking amazing and profound and like as mind blowing as
Speaker 1: the original, if not more so, And like, I don't
Speaker 1: think there is a single example of something that's done that.
Speaker 1: I think most things that come back have been kind
Speaker 1: of disappointing, and I sort of it. My theory is
Speaker 1: when things come back and people really want them to
Speaker 1: come back and then they feel dissatisfying, is kind of
Speaker 1: because they kind of are the same thing, and it's
Speaker 1: almost like they've gone, well, we'll give you what you want,
Speaker 1: and then you get what you want and you're like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I didn't really want that I wanted. And with Twin Peaks,
Speaker 1: the original was such a surprise that what happened with
Speaker 1: the return it was like, oh, will surprise you, Like,
Speaker 1: this is not at all what you think it's going
Speaker 1: to be, which is what the original Twin Peaks were, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fucky amazing. How is it for you?
Speaker 3: Well, I think you make a good point about things
Speaker 3: that come back again, and I feel like what happens
Speaker 3: is they get watered down somehow and they lose their intensity.
Speaker 3: And I know that there were a lot of Twin
Speaker 3: Peak fans who wanted to kind of have that warm
Speaker 3: bath going back and recreating that experience, which you simply can't.
Speaker 3: And I know that David Lynch in particular has no
Speaker 3: interest in recreating something that's already been done, and he
Speaker 3: was all about the future and moving forward.
Speaker 2: And you know, we.
Speaker 3: Were able to really get what I call it's the
Speaker 3: pure Lynch ingestion. You know, he obviously David is you know,
Speaker 3: you put him under the category of surreal as filmmaker,
Speaker 3: I think, and I think what we got for that
Speaker 3: return was really almost just the purity of his vision,
Speaker 3: of his intensity. And honestly, it wasn't for everyone, but
Speaker 3: I am really proud of it, and I'm so happy
Speaker 3: to hear that you also embraced it that way, because
Speaker 3: it's what it is Twin Peaks. And then it's even
Speaker 3: I think more and if you liked the original and
Speaker 3: you're a fan of the original. I think you really
Speaker 3: it was something that really spoke to you. You so
Speaker 3: thank you.
Speaker 1: It also feels like, you know, there's the reality and
Speaker 1: forgive me, this is I don't know, too sad to
Speaker 1: talk about, but you know, lots of people kind of
Speaker 1: died from the cast, like within weeks, within days of
Speaker 1: the show, and it really feels like this kind of
Speaker 1: document like time, if the whole thing is about time,
Speaker 1: and there's the kind of reality of these people getting
Speaker 1: older and some of them dying, and you feel there's
Speaker 1: a real it's so strong within the show, particularly with
Speaker 1: the log lady and everything. It's like it's so fucking moving.
Speaker 1: This feels like this object about time, real fucking time,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 3: I think so often when you see something a film,
Speaker 3: a favorite film or a favorite program, it's a frozen
Speaker 3: moment in time, right, and time stops and that's how
Speaker 3: you remember that moment. And with Twin Peaks, you know,
Speaker 3: obviously we get advanced twenty five or a few more
Speaker 3: years and you saw the age and you realize that
Speaker 3: people were gone, and suddenly, as you said, time becomes
Speaker 3: very real and the march of time becomes like really
Speaker 3: very tangible, I think, and it was a it was
Speaker 3: a byproduct of the experience, but I think a powerful one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and kind of you. You're incredible in the return
Speaker 1: and you essentially play three if not arua to play
Speaker 1: four parts, Yeah, five, I'd say four. I think I'm
Speaker 1: playing four pack.
Speaker 2: With a few other little variations thrown in. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the guy at the end in the final
Speaker 1: episode is four is the fourth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Richard referred to as retail.
Speaker 3: He's a slight cut of Cooper, close to Cooper, but
Speaker 3: not exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's a phenomenal performance and you should have
Speaker 1: won oh the awards for it. And you're and and
Speaker 1: the thing that you're side lovely and you kind of twinkly,
Speaker 1: and there's an innocence about you in a purity and
Speaker 1: a curiosity and all that stuff. But when you played
Speaker 1: mister c You're dead. You are scared, proper fucking scary.
Speaker 1: And I believe that's the first time you've done something
Speaker 1: that dark yourself. And I wondered how that was and
Speaker 1: how you did it, you know, So.
Speaker 2: I wondered how I did.
Speaker 3: When I was reading the script, I recognized the fact
Speaker 3: that what I needed to do and I it was
Speaker 3: soul searching.
Speaker 2: I said, are you are you an actor who can
Speaker 2: do this?
Speaker 3: You know, can you can you go and do what's
Speaker 3: necessary because.
Speaker 2: If you can't, the show doesn't work.
Speaker 3: So but I had the little glimmer of hope was
Speaker 3: that the David was there as the director, and I said,
Speaker 3: if I'm going to do this, there's nobody I'd rather,
Speaker 3: you know, jump off the edge of this cliff with them,
Speaker 3: with David, and I know that he'll he'll have my back.
Speaker 3: And it was a challenging, scared, very surprisingly powerful. Not
Speaker 3: surprising that it was powerful, but the fact that I
Speaker 3: actually the feelings. You know, as an actor, you're it's
Speaker 3: a journey in every role demands different things and you're
Speaker 3: sourcing from different parts of yourself.
Speaker 2: And I was like, this isn't a part that I'd.
Speaker 3: Never sourced, and yet I dipped into it and it
Speaker 3: was available to me and I was like, Okay, that dark,
Speaker 3: inky blackpool is there, and and I kind of wallowed in.
Speaker 2: It a bit.
Speaker 3: I gotta say I was very happy to take it
Speaker 3: off at the end of the day, which was sort
Speaker 3: of symbolic by removing basically getting undressed from me taking
Speaker 3: off the character. But I was very surprised that when
Speaker 3: I got in it it was different and it was
Speaker 3: exciting and powerful and a little frightening.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy, you're like, I could.
Speaker 3: It's a very weird place is an actor, and one
Speaker 3: that I did not want to stay in very long,
Speaker 3: to be.
Speaker 1: Honest, there's a reality. I think about that a lot
Speaker 1: like that. You know, there's the scene you have quite
Speaker 1: early on. I think it's like episode three, I say
Speaker 1: as a mega mega fan where you're where you hit
Speaker 1: that woman and it's very horrible and upsetting, and I
Speaker 1: think about sayings like that, the sort of reality obviously
Speaker 1: on not hitting out, but you have to you have
Speaker 1: to physically look like you're going to and looked like
Speaker 1: you mean it. That's sort of very dark scary either. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that must be very tricky.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: There was a hint of it in Blue Velvet in
Speaker 3: the relationship with Isabella in that as the character of
Speaker 3: Jeffrey sort of brushes up against his dark side, encouraged
Speaker 3: by her and her behavior and obviously influenced by the
Speaker 3: character of Frank Booth played by Jennis Hopper, played beautifully
Speaker 3: by Jennis Hopper, and he does, he does strike her
Speaker 3: in this moment of true passion, anger, desperation, sexual fervor, everything.
Speaker 3: And the remorse that he exhibits after that, when he's
Speaker 3: sitting in his room and he's really he's driven to tears,
Speaker 3: is really just as a glimmer of what was to come,
Speaker 3: and not even related and other than the fact that
Speaker 3: it was directed by David In the Return from Blue
Speaker 3: Velvet to the Return, Neck character had that and I
Speaker 3: hadn't really thought about that until you just mentioned that,
Speaker 3: and it was there, but more fully realized of course
Speaker 3: in the Return.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a clip I add to anyone to find
Speaker 1: online way. It's just a one minute like behind the
Speaker 1: scenes shot of the return trim pieces of Return, and
Speaker 1: it's you can hit You're in the you're in the
Speaker 1: red room. You're in there. You're walking along the floor
Speaker 1: and David is just shouting directions from behind the camera
Speaker 1: and he's going look down. The floor is shaking, the
Speaker 1: floor is falling, you're falling down, you're falling, you're up,
Speaker 1: you're down, and he's shouting and it looks like you
Speaker 1: do it all in one take. It's so fucking brilliant,
Speaker 1: And the thing that is really fascinating about it is
Speaker 1: that it's the sort of thing that if you weren't
Speaker 1: completely trusting and one hundred percent committed, it would be embarrassing,
Speaker 1: Like it's right on the edge of this could feel
Speaker 1: very silly, Like it could feel silly. He's going like
Speaker 1: you're dancing, you're falling. Yeah, And it's so the very
Speaker 1: edge of that. And yet it's You're like, it isn't remote,
Speaker 1: it's not silly, it's not funny. It could be there's
Speaker 1: a version where this is a disaster, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But you're so both of you are so committed,
Speaker 1: and it's just and it ends and everyone claps and
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, this is fucking amazing. And I wonder
Speaker 1: if can you articulate or is it just natural, like
Speaker 1: how you and David having worked together forever, Like what
Speaker 1: is it? How is it with between the two of you?
Speaker 1: Is it just trust?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 1: Do you know what he's doing?
Speaker 2: It's a lot of trust. I don't always know what
Speaker 2: he's doing.
Speaker 3: Know. I've been famously quoted as not understanding certain things.
Speaker 3: You know, I know what I know where, I know
Speaker 3: where we are in that moment of the journey. I
Speaker 3: often I'm uncertain as to the final result. You know,
Speaker 3: this is what this is in David's mind. This is
Speaker 3: the creator, the creative, and I am part of the troupe,
Speaker 3: you know, the group that carries on. But we've always
Speaker 3: had that talking back and forth is something I remember
Speaker 3: we did and we started with it in Dune and
Speaker 3: they continued into Blue Velvet, more so in Blue Velvet,
Speaker 3: and it's it's an interesting connection because there's a lot
Speaker 3: of it is sometimes it dips into the what I
Speaker 3: think is sort of the crazy. So David will say
Speaker 3: something to me that I know he's just trying to
Speaker 3: get me to laugh. You know, it's it's it's a
Speaker 3: departure from the scene. But I'll stay in character and
Speaker 3: I'll do it, and then the goal is to make
Speaker 3: him laugh. So it's about who makes the other laugh first.
Speaker 3: Because in doing it in Blueveltt, there was he was right.
Speaker 3: He'd only be right near the camera, so he wasn't
Speaker 3: back at a monitor. Now it's different, but he would
Speaker 3: be right near the camera and so he was right there,
Speaker 3: you know, as close as you can be. And so
Speaker 3: he would just say these things and oftentimes it was
Speaker 3: just between the two of us, and then the crew
Speaker 3: didn't know what was going on, and then of course
Speaker 3: one of us would break out laughing, and anyone would laugh.
Speaker 3: But so we have a lot of we have a
Speaker 3: lot of fun in some of the darkness, which.
Speaker 1: Is very important important. Yeah, and that so I imagine
Speaker 1: I love that lower Daniels in it, and you two
Speaker 1: equally seem to have had a history with David Lynch
Speaker 1: for years and years, and yeah, may ask this question,
Speaker 1: do you think it's a happy ending in the return? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Do you think it's a positive or negative ending?
Speaker 3: It's it's a mixed ending, I think, because on one hand,
Speaker 3: I feel like he has succeeded in finding her and
Speaker 3: actually kind of rescuing her or bringing her from her
Speaker 3: situation obviously a very bad situation in that room when
Speaker 3: he finds her, and what's this tableau that is set
Speaker 3: up there, not unlike the tableau inwards the end of
Speaker 3: levelovet similar.
Speaker 2: But I also feel like he has not finished.
Speaker 3: And there's a moment of which you never see Cooper
Speaker 3: in a moment of rarely, I guess, in a moment
Speaker 3: of not sure what to do, and yet you know,
Speaker 3: I think he'll figure it out, but so I feel
Speaker 3: like it's a it's almost a kind of a it's
Speaker 3: a work in progress kind of he hasn't quite figured
Speaker 3: out how he's going to get back all the way
Speaker 3: I used to like in it, kind of like an
Speaker 3: astronaut would be tethered and then he has to let
Speaker 3: go and then he's going to catch something else, but
Speaker 3: he hasn't quite caught the next thing yet, so he's
Speaker 3: in limbo a little bit. So it's a it's a mix.
Speaker 3: And I think the look on his face and that
Speaker 3: was all directed.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: We shot the very very end outside the Palmer House
Speaker 3: very early in the filming. It was during the Seattle sequence,
Speaker 3: which we shot first. So I hadn't really gone on
Speaker 3: the journey yet, so I relied heavily on David to say, okay.
Speaker 2: He said, come down.
Speaker 3: The steps, you walk into the street, you take this
Speaker 3: number of steps, you stop, you hold a beat, you
Speaker 3: turn everything that you see. My physical everything, the physicality
Speaker 3: was him setting up the exact relationship.
Speaker 2: That he wanted because I didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't understand exactly where we were on
Speaker 3: the journey. And then he had of course, cherryl Lee
Speaker 3: do that scream, which just I mean, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know if you have the same reaction.
Speaker 3: At the end of the pilot, there's this there's a
Speaker 3: grace sits up and there's a scream, and a hand
Speaker 3: comes in and and the I remember, the hair on
Speaker 3: the back of my neck is when I got chills.
Speaker 3: And that never happens. I mean, when are you so
Speaker 3: impacted by something rarely right? And I remember I had
Speaker 3: exactly the same reaction in the flesh in person.
Speaker 2: When it happened, I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: and I said, this is how we're going to leave.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, all right, Oh my god?
Speaker 1: You know what? Could I could cry because I've just
Speaker 1: realized that. Yeah, it's like the whole full secon of
Speaker 1: life is that. That is what happened in the pilot
Speaker 1: where me and my sister were young, and we saw that,
Speaker 1: and when that happened, both of us sat. The funny
Speaker 1: thing is that I was supposed to move out. Me
Speaker 1: and my sisters share the room, and I was supposed
Speaker 1: to have that day. I was supposed to have my
Speaker 1: own room, and we were so scared that I dragged
Speaker 1: my mattress into my sister's room. And to this day
Speaker 1: I still sleep but that feeling, you know, twenty six
Speaker 1: years later that that is exactly how I responded to
Speaker 1: the end of this.
Speaker 2: Oh Dave, it's just very powerful. That's a very funny story.
Speaker 2: Never forget.
Speaker 1: But it makes me think, like, you're very funny. You're
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting, and maybe you've always been this way.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's inherits you. I think you're like in Sex
Speaker 1: and the City. I love you in Sex and the City.
Speaker 1: And it's such a again, it's so committed, such a committed,
Speaker 1: funny performance, and I don't know that must just be
Speaker 1: you must just be very open to everything because because
Speaker 1: again that could be silly, it could be embarrassing. But
Speaker 1: you fucking it's so good, so great, Thank you do
Speaker 1: it so well. Fuck thank you.
Speaker 2: That was a lot.
Speaker 3: You know, when you're working with Francis Sternhagen, the late
Speaker 3: Francis Sternhagen, that's my mom.
Speaker 2: I mean, she would come to set.
Speaker 3: She'd be like in a broken stocks and like a
Speaker 3: gardening shirt, you know, pants, just all natural, hair down.
Speaker 2: No makeup, you know, and big smile.
Speaker 3: It's so gracious, so warm, and she would trans form
Speaker 3: into this Upper east Side chili smoking, you know, character,
Speaker 3: and it's really amazing and we had just great chemistry,
Speaker 3: and I had great chemistry with Kristen too as Charlotte.
Speaker 3: And I think the idea was, you know, obviously the
Speaker 3: topics that the things that Trey is dealing with are
Speaker 3: embarrassing and certain and you know, you can make a
Speaker 3: joke about them, but we really tried to find not
Speaker 3: all the time, but we tried to find some of
Speaker 3: the real issues, you know, the real emotion like if
Speaker 3: this really happens, how does how do two people deal
Speaker 3: with it?
Speaker 2: You know, and what kind of.
Speaker 3: Just the realness of it we were we were trying
Speaker 3: to get to and I think and we were helped
Speaker 3: in some ways. And then also the writers, couldn't you
Speaker 3: resist all the fun which was great? You know, there
Speaker 3: was some humor there too.
Speaker 2: But.
Speaker 1: There is POSI that moving right, you know, so you're
Speaker 1: very good.
Speaker 2: Try to focus on that.
Speaker 1: Okay, one last one, last question. Thank you for talking
Speaker 1: to me. I know that with your long career with
Speaker 1: David Lynch, have you ever been like, I'm not doing
Speaker 1: that that's.
Speaker 2: You know, there there.
Speaker 3: Was one time, one time that I remember and maybe
Speaker 3: there were others, but I don't think so. I mean,
Speaker 3: there was the script for Blue Velvet was pretty graphic
Speaker 3: as you can imagine, you know, very specific things that
Speaker 3: happened between Jeffrey and.
Speaker 2: Dorothy and written out, you know.
Speaker 3: And so there was this kind of a scene where
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to run from the couch, you know, gather
Speaker 3: my clothes real quickly. But I knew there was going
Speaker 3: to be a stretch of the living room where I
Speaker 3: was going to be potentially full frontal. And I was like, oh, boy, David,
Speaker 3: I know, and I was like, I don't if I
Speaker 3: can do this, I really and he said, no, no, no, noah,
Speaker 3: We're gonna move the camera over here.
Speaker 2: It's going to be okay, You're gonna be fine.
Speaker 3: And so I trusted him, you know, and I did
Speaker 3: it and it actually worked. Okay, there's a slight moment
Speaker 3: of something, you know, but it could have been a
Speaker 3: lot worse.
Speaker 2: So that was that was one time when I was.
Speaker 3: And then the only other on was I remember when
Speaker 3: we were doing the scene when after Jeffrey has the
Speaker 3: joy ride, the whole experience a Dean Stockwell and Frank
Speaker 3: and all that. That night he wakes up kind of
Speaker 3: beaten up in the lumberyard. And I remember David had
Speaker 3: wanted Jeffrey to wake up. You know, his pants were down.
Speaker 3: He was fully you know, exposed. You could realize he's
Speaker 3: been he'd been abused. And I was like, I said, David,
Speaker 3: I think this might be a little more than what.
Speaker 2: The audience should see.
Speaker 3: I just feel like we're it might be a little
Speaker 3: bit too and he he.
Speaker 2: Said okay, he said, okay. We were able.
Speaker 3: To show portray that or do that without having to
Speaker 3: see that the brutality of that. And so that was
Speaker 3: I mean, that was the only time I kind of raised.
Speaker 3: I didn't sort of say I wasn't going to do it.
Speaker 3: I just sort of said, I, you know, yielded to him.
Speaker 3: But I said, I this is how I kind of
Speaker 3: feel about this, and he he agreed.
Speaker 1: Something that is I don't know why it's made. That's good,
Speaker 1: Oh man, makes sense. So tell me before week. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry to people. We haven't even haven't even told you
Speaker 1: something I should have told you. But do you do
Speaker 1: you how there are two things you need to tell
Speaker 1: me about. One is why and thether is you have
Speaker 1: a new podcast. What is your podcast?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: God, thank you for asking.
Speaker 3: Finally, I'm the last person, last after to get into
Speaker 3: the podcast.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a focust it was about time.
Speaker 2: I thank you for asking.
Speaker 5: I have.
Speaker 3: It's a kind of a crazy mystery story that takes
Speaker 3: place not far from where we filmed Blue Velvet, which
Speaker 3: was in Wilmington, North Carolina. This takes place in a
Speaker 3: little town called Varnhumtown, North Carolina, and it's the story
Speaker 3: of a very eccentric, charismatic guy who made a deal
Speaker 3: with Pablo Escobar and his cartel and his town. This
Speaker 3: is a very small town of three hundred people to
Speaker 3: operate as a basically a port or a hub for
Speaker 3: smuggling drugs into the country from South America.
Speaker 2: And the podcast is called Varnumtown after the community.
Speaker 3: And I heard the story and I said, that is
Speaker 3: the crazy thing about it is, you know, I understand
Speaker 3: the person, but how do you get a whole town
Speaker 3: involve and then what does that mean to the town
Speaker 3: and to the people, and what happens to that to them,
Speaker 3: you know, and who agrees and who doesn't agree, and
Speaker 3: then what sort of what does that set up?
Speaker 2: And I thought, this is a very interesting story.
Speaker 3: So I I contacted my friend josh Davis, Joshua Davis,
Speaker 3: who's an investigative reporter, and we put together a little crew,
Speaker 3: very small crew, and we went to Varnhamtown and we
Speaker 3: interviewed almost all of the people that were involved. There's
Speaker 3: a few that were not around, Pablo Escobar being one, but.
Speaker 1: We interview everybody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we came up and this is this eight
Speaker 3: episode sort of mystery that we go on to try
Speaker 3: to kind of figure this out, put the pieces together,
Speaker 3: and it was it's a I loved it.
Speaker 2: I love the process. It's really fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Does it make you want to do more of them? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand it. I understand it more now. The
Speaker 3: big learning curve for me was you're going with an
Speaker 3: idea of a story, and then that story continues to
Speaker 3: evolve and change and shifts as we do these interviews,
Speaker 3: as we went on this journey and gathered everything, and
Speaker 3: I said, oh, okay, so it's the story sort of
Speaker 3: reveals itself as you go through this process. At least
Speaker 3: that was the experience I had. And I said, that's interesting.
Speaker 3: It reveals itself. And I thought, oh, yeah, okay, I
Speaker 3: enjoyed that. So yeah, I'd like to do more.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it, Kyle, I have. I
Speaker 1: did forget to tell you something, which is it's mad,
Speaker 1: mad that I didn't tell you at the beginning of this,
Speaker 1: because you know, we had a long time dealing with
Speaker 1: the tech. I see to tell you. But let me
Speaker 1: just check my notes, because I did make a note
Speaker 1: to tell you. I was going to say up top,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I got distracted because this is
Speaker 1: excited to say you've died. You're dead. M okay, you're dead.
Speaker 2: Is there a chance of resurrection or is this it?
Speaker 1: No, there is a chance.
Speaker 2: I okay.
Speaker 1: If this guy's out, you ever want to do another episode,
Speaker 1: then yeah, that's that's a RESIDCT episode.
Speaker 2: Lovely, let's make it.
Speaker 1: How did you die?
Speaker 2: Oh it was a tragic accident.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I was what happened.
Speaker 2: I was on a podcast with post I don't know
Speaker 2: if you know about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was sad and I was trying to work
Speaker 3: the avy and I was actually electrocuted trying to hook up.
Speaker 2: The microphone and it was sad. Yeah. So there's a
Speaker 2: lot of my final Yeah.
Speaker 3: My final moments were actually caught on tape and recorded,
Speaker 3: so very.
Speaker 1: Embarrassed that they made for great content. Yes, well, do
Speaker 1: you worry about death?
Speaker 2: It will occasionally cross my mind.
Speaker 6: I have.
Speaker 2: I'm one of those people.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you're like this, but if I
Speaker 3: wake up at three o'clock or four o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 3: you know, from sleep, my mind begins. It's a dark time.
Speaker 3: I think they do say it is the what is
Speaker 3: it theminator from the lowest point. Yeah. In fact, when
Speaker 3: people pass and if they're suffering, and it's a common time.
Speaker 2: To actually pass, like four in the morning.
Speaker 3: Roughly, and occasionally, yeah, that concept will creep in and
Speaker 3: it becomes I have to work hard to shake it.
Speaker 3: Not hard, but I need to shake it off and
Speaker 3: I enter into my gratitude list of things, you know,
Speaker 3: my family, my son, and my things I've done people,
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: Those kind of things. It's very hard to imagine just
Speaker 2: not being here.
Speaker 3: It's a concept that I think is if you really
Speaker 3: sit with it, it's not a place that I really
Speaker 3: like to go and be.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's more when you die? That there's
Speaker 1: something else?
Speaker 2: I hope. So, I hope.
Speaker 3: So you know, one side of my brain says, and
Speaker 3: you know, this is it and you you've done, You've lived,
Speaker 3: and you move on, and you live on in the
Speaker 3: memories of others you know, and in some ways as
Speaker 3: an actor if you live on for possibly a long time.
Speaker 3: But you know, that's one side. The other side is
Speaker 3: hopeful that there is some kind of energy transference, that
Speaker 3: some kind of consciousness, although really hard to believe.
Speaker 1: That for me, Well, I got news for you, m
Speaker 1: there is a heaven. I guess he's got it.
Speaker 2: You I am.
Speaker 1: You gotta do it, you gotta have it.
Speaker 2: I knew it. This is why I'm doing I'm going
Speaker 2: to heaven.
Speaker 1: It's good with your favorite thing. What's your favorite thing?
Speaker 2: I hope I can bring wine.
Speaker 1: Tell me what you love wine? You make wine? Why
Speaker 1: tell me what happened?
Speaker 3: We know the way I I liked wine longer than
Speaker 3: I should be. I like one since high school.
Speaker 7: Really, yes, very well, I wasn't really good wine that
Speaker 7: I liked, but I love the idea, and that started
Speaker 7: me on this journey that's led now to me owning
Speaker 7: a brand, a wine brand, and I make wine.
Speaker 3: In my home state of Washington, where I grew up
Speaker 3: on the east side.
Speaker 2: Eastern Washington is.
Speaker 3: Quite dry, quite good for wine grapes. In fact, the
Speaker 3: west side not so good. That's Seattle and that's very
Speaker 3: rainy and green and mossy. But the east side is dry,
Speaker 3: dry as bone. And so that's where I grew up,
Speaker 3: and that's where the vineyards that I used for my
Speaker 3: wine are all that side.
Speaker 2: So I made my first vintage in two thousand and five.
Speaker 2: Is kind of a fun adventure.
Speaker 3: Wanted to learn about it, wanted my dad to be
Speaker 3: part of it, and that started me on this journey.
Speaker 2: And here we are twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: I'm twenty twenty four, good lord, and I've I've got
Speaker 3: seven different wines, and I'm really still enjoying the journey.
Speaker 1: Fun and it's huge, right you're doing. It's a very
Speaker 1: big brand now, it's.
Speaker 2: A known brand.
Speaker 3: We're still pretty small production, you know, roughly three thousand
Speaker 3: case productions, pretty small, but high quality and that's our focus.
Speaker 3: And we actually have a distribution in the UK, which
Speaker 3: is pretty cool. I got a few spots there and
Speaker 3: around the country, so I've got distribution in about eighteen
Speaker 3: states and I love it amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, in Heaven, there's older wine you could want,
Speaker 1: there's your wine, there's your other favorite wines. I don't
Speaker 1: know enough about wines, but they're all there. There's red,
Speaker 1: there's white.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they're all fantastic. If they're in heaven, they've
Speaker 2: got to be great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're really good. Oh made dry. You never and
Speaker 1: everyone's very excited to see you, and they won't know
Speaker 1: about your life, but they won't know about your life
Speaker 1: through film. And the first thing they ask you, what's
Speaker 1: the first film you remember seeing? Comic buff I don't know.
Speaker 3: If this was the first film I ever saw, but
Speaker 3: it's one that had an impact on me that I
Speaker 3: still think about today.
Speaker 2: I was in fifth grade, so how is that that's
Speaker 2: maybe ten?
Speaker 1: I don't know anyway, your grade system.
Speaker 3: I was a crossing which called we called them patrol boys.
Speaker 3: But then there was a crossing guard. And this is
Speaker 3: when it was the kids were actually the crossing guards
Speaker 3: for the other kids. And at the end of the year,
Speaker 3: as a I guess as a nice gesture, we got
Speaker 3: half a day off school and we got to go
Speaker 3: to this park and all these games and food and everything,
Speaker 3: and and it culminated in going to see a movie
Speaker 3: at the local theater in downtown Yakoma, Washington, and I
Speaker 3: went and went to.
Speaker 2: The theater very excited, you know, I was.
Speaker 3: I hadn't seen many movies, and I remember sitting down
Speaker 3: and the screening was a film called Duel at Diablo.
Speaker 3: Western great, you know, it's fine watching cowboys and everything
Speaker 3: going around.
Speaker 2: And at a.
Speaker 3: Certain point in the film, one of the good guys
Speaker 3: has been kidnapped by the Native Americans Indians at that time.
Speaker 3: Native Americans kidnapped him and taking him away, and we
Speaker 3: didn't know where he was, and so they sent out
Speaker 3: a search party and they find him and he's been
Speaker 3: tied to a wagon wheel.
Speaker 2: None of this you see, right.
Speaker 3: The only thing you see is kind of from behind,
Speaker 3: an arm that's been lashed to a wagon wheel, and
Speaker 3: they've been roasting him alive. So the arm is bloody
Speaker 3: and blistered and grotesque.
Speaker 2: And you're like, that's all I needed to see. I
Speaker 2: was like, I was horrified.
Speaker 3: I was frightened beyond belief then, because you see the
Speaker 3: faces of the other cowhans looking at him like, oh,
Speaker 3: like incredulous, like oh my god, this is awful.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if.
Speaker 3: Any dialogue was but I remember there was a passing
Speaker 3: of a gun six shooter to.
Speaker 2: The hand that had been burned.
Speaker 3: You know, it was enough, it was okay, and it
Speaker 3: reached out and it's with its bloody fingers grabbed the
Speaker 3: pistol and began to turn the gun this way.
Speaker 2: And they cut away.
Speaker 3: And now you're with the cowboys and they're kind of
Speaker 3: some distance, they're riding away, and you hear a gunshot,
Speaker 3: a single gun shot right now.
Speaker 1: Oh god.
Speaker 3: And I was like, that was it. I was like
Speaker 3: I was it was embedded in my brain. I was,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I'd never seen anything like this. I'd
Speaker 3: never seen anything like that. So I must have seen
Speaker 3: other movies. I mustn't because we were pretty sheltered as kids,
Speaker 3: and so there were I'm sure they were Disney movies,
Speaker 3: you know, which have a certain you know element of
Speaker 3: you know BANDI you think about that's a lenment of
Speaker 3: loss in there and horror. But this was something so
Speaker 3: brutally graphic to me. And you know, I still have
Speaker 3: those few images, and I'm sure they've distored it over
Speaker 3: the years, but that was the first thing I ever
Speaker 3: saw so that I remember really really that visceral of
Speaker 3: a reaction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, crazy, Okay, that's.
Speaker 2: I should I haven't even never seen it again, so
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I's lock that up. What about crying? What is
Speaker 1: the film that made you cry the mouth?
Speaker 3: I think it's any film that I watch when I'm
Speaker 3: in the air.
Speaker 2: Is there a thing? Does this happen to you.
Speaker 1: That it does? I don't think it is a thing,
Speaker 1: but no one knows why it is a thing. But yeah,
Speaker 1: everything it might cry and it's the strangest thing.
Speaker 3: And I remember I was sitting, I was flying somewhere
Speaker 3: and uh for some and this was back in the
Speaker 3: day when you could actually make phone calls from the seat.
Speaker 3: Remember they had phones for a while that you could
Speaker 3: actually remember sat phones or whenever they were. So I was,
Speaker 3: I was flying, and I was watching my dog skip
Speaker 3: for some reason, and even thinking about it, I'm getting
Speaker 3: I'm getting emotional now. And there's a there's a moment
Speaker 3: where the dog he puts his pop on the bed.
Speaker 2: He can't jump up on the bed. He's getting old.
Speaker 3: And I was just like I was, thank god, I
Speaker 3: was in the window seat and I was turned to
Speaker 3: the side, tears just running down my cheeks. I was
Speaker 3: like this, and I was I think I was either
Speaker 3: on the phone or I had called the phone, or
Speaker 3: maybe I called my wife, Desiree, and I.
Speaker 2: She said hello.
Speaker 3: I said hello, like there's some little whimpery voice and
Speaker 3: she said Kyle.
Speaker 2: I said yeah, and she said are you crying? I said,
Speaker 2: you know, I just couldn't even talk and she said,
Speaker 2: I said, I'm watching my dog skip and she said.
Speaker 8: Oh my god, call me back later. But I just
Speaker 8: remember that moment so clearly. Just it was had such
Speaker 8: a like, you know, watching it in your.
Speaker 2: Home, you'd be like, oh, that's a very moving moment.
Speaker 3: But somehow, when you're in the air, I don't know
Speaker 3: what it is, everything has more impact.
Speaker 1: You can't fast and furious. We'll make you cry on
Speaker 1: a plane, right, you call it? Don't fail Vin, Diesel
Speaker 1: will make you cry. Diesel is saying we're a family
Speaker 1: will make you cry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I believe you.
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, what about being skeed? What's the film that sketted?
Speaker 1: Do you light being sketched? And by the way, you
Speaker 1: you either thing that scared?
Speaker 2: Made it?
Speaker 1: Nice to it?
Speaker 3: Okay, so nice to have that distinction. I don't like
Speaker 3: being scared. I don't like jump scares. But again, I
Speaker 3: was working in North Carolina. I was working as an
Speaker 3: apprentice at Flat Rock Playhouse. So this would have been
Speaker 3: seventy seven, seventy eight, and this film called Alien had
Speaker 3: come out, and so I was kind of seeing this girl.
Speaker 3: And we went to see Alien together on a rare
Speaker 3: day off and I literally sweat through my clothes. I
Speaker 3: my T shirt is drenched with sweat. It was so
Speaker 3: tense and I was so scared. My heart was going
Speaker 3: like one hundred miles an hour. I was freaked out
Speaker 3: that movie. Totally just scared, basically scared the shit out.
Speaker 3: I mean, that was and I still I still love it.
Speaker 3: I love the Alliadians. I mean, I'm just but yeah,
Speaker 3: that one was.
Speaker 1: That one for me was really memorable, and you know
Speaker 1: it it holds up.
Speaker 2: So I think so I think that, you know, just
Speaker 2: a big fan of Sigourny.
Speaker 3: We were for all the years that Tom's Scare It
Speaker 3: and Harry Dean, you know, just the the production value
Speaker 3: of it was interesting because it was early and it
Speaker 3: was a ship that was like a working ship.
Speaker 2: This wasn't a pristine.
Speaker 1: Spacecraft that was new, right, it was new like yeah.
Speaker 3: You'd seen Star Wars to that point, which is clean
Speaker 3: and nice and everything is shiny. This was and therefore
Speaker 3: very real. I thought it really put you in that
Speaker 3: place so quickly, so.
Speaker 1: Scary, fantastic. What is the film that you love? People
Speaker 1: who don't like it is not critically acclaimed, but you
Speaker 1: love it forever.
Speaker 2: There's this film.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't even I don't know if people
Speaker 3: love this film or not love. I can't untell, but
Speaker 3: there was. There were two films that were made actually
Speaker 3: at the same time. It was sort of controversial, Three
Speaker 3: Musketeers for Musketeers. This is the version with Michael Yorke
Speaker 3: and Richard Chamberlain, Raquel Welch, Faye dun Away. I mean
Speaker 3: it was a cast of you know, superstars. Richard Flesher
Speaker 3: I think directed, and I will watch it today. I mean,
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: And part of the reason I think I love it
Speaker 3: is because I found it when I was in school
Speaker 3: and training at the University of Washington, and and anybody
Speaker 3: in school, we were thirteen going kids going through this
Speaker 3: repertory theater experience this program for three years. And if
Speaker 3: any kind of diversion, you know, was was because it
Speaker 3: was just it was a very intense program, and I
Speaker 3: remember going there and watching this and just feeling like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, this is my kind of humor, this
Speaker 3: is my kind of movie. It had it had fun, swashbuckling,
Speaker 3: great sword play. I think the choreographers William Hobbs Oliver read,
Speaker 3: I don't know, just I love everything about it. I
Speaker 3: love every In fact, I love it so much that
Speaker 3: I would watch they have, you know, kind of behind
Speaker 3: the scenes footage or interviews with.
Speaker 2: The actors, you know, many years after, and I would
Speaker 2: sit and.
Speaker 3: Watch that and I just love hearing the stories, and
Speaker 3: I love the idea of being on that.
Speaker 2: Set, and I love everything about it. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: I love it. So that's that's.
Speaker 2: It's like a guilty pleasure.
Speaker 1: What about on the other side of it, a film
Speaker 1: that you used to love a lot, but you've watched
Speaker 1: recently and you've thought, I don't like this anymore. Maybe
Speaker 1: you change.
Speaker 3: The thing is I still like this film, but it's
Speaker 3: a context of Blazing Saddles.
Speaker 2: Have you seen that recently?
Speaker 1: I love Blazing Sadus.
Speaker 3: Recently, I love Blazing Saddles, but it's so inappropriate right now.
Speaker 5: It's so not not what it's supposed to be it's
Speaker 5: you know, it's like of a time and a place
Speaker 5: and it's hilarious, but it's it's hard for.
Speaker 3: Me to watch now just because of some of the
Speaker 3: jokes and I'm just like, I know everyone's in on
Speaker 3: the joke. But and it's got one of the great
Speaker 3: performances Gene Wilder as the Waygoat kid, I mean Cleveland
Speaker 3: Little of course on you know, this is mel Brooks.
Speaker 2: But I have a hard time watching it just because.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but that is an edgy film.
Speaker 3: It's an edgy film. I don't, you know, I it's
Speaker 3: and again it's it holds up. It's just more that
Speaker 3: it's of a different era, you know. I think in
Speaker 3: that really there are some films that are like, okay
Speaker 3: that exists in that time, very specific, and in some
Speaker 3: films that they're sort.
Speaker 2: Of a little you know, you can go with them
Speaker 2: for yeah, decades.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I think that's fair. I think
Speaker 1: comedy rarely holds up. Comedy is always of its time,
Speaker 1: I think are not always. But I think any any
Speaker 1: other than sort of silly comedies, silly like slapsticky type
Speaker 1: thing or anything with dialogue usually dates because it's sort
Speaker 1: of transgressive at the time they make it, and then
Speaker 1: time moves on and then that thing suddenly becomes less.
Speaker 1: I don't know the times.
Speaker 2: Of the moment. Maybe of the moment, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, What is the film that means the most to you?
Speaker 1: Not necessarily the film itself is any good, but the
Speaker 1: experience you had around seeing it will always make it
Speaker 1: special to you.
Speaker 3: And again it's because I think of where I was
Speaker 3: in the context the film, The Long, Good Friday, Bob Hoskin.
Speaker 1: Filling me right film.
Speaker 3: It's a great films, the best ending Pierce Brosnan. I
Speaker 3: was working at the Shakespeare Festival in Nashally. I had graduated.
Speaker 3: It was nineteen eighty two. I was working in Ashland.
Speaker 3: I was doing Romeo on the main stage, The Boy
Speaker 3: and Henry five, which is a great role. Octavius Caesar,
Speaker 3: Julius Caesar, fresh out of school, working making five hundred
Speaker 3: dollars a month.
Speaker 2: I was in heaven. But it was perfect.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And we was repertory theater, so you and you know,
Speaker 3: occasionally you had a knight, yet a dark knight, you
Speaker 3: get a night off, and there was a little theater
Speaker 3: in town that would play so and that it was
Speaker 3: the only movie theater. So we were like, this movie
Speaker 3: came on the longer Friday. I said, I don't know
Speaker 3: what it is.
Speaker 2: You know what it is. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 3: So let's go because we got nothing else to do.
Speaker 3: We got to kill some time. The main stage is on,
Speaker 3: We're not on there.
Speaker 2: Let's go. So we went and we sat down with
Speaker 2: no expectations.
Speaker 3: It was my roommate and me, and on comes that
Speaker 3: music and remember da da dun da da da dun
Speaker 3: d and you see Bob Hoskins like, this is going
Speaker 3: to be good. I think this is going to be
Speaker 3: very good. And we were just transported. We were not
Speaker 3: a Nationals anymore. We were in a different place. We
Speaker 3: watched it. I can't tell you how many times that week,
Speaker 3: and they only go from come from a week. Every
Speaker 3: time that we had downtown, we would go back and
Speaker 3: watch it. I loved it. I loved that movie. It
Speaker 3: was so intense and I remember, just because of that
Speaker 3: that experience where I was at the.
Speaker 1: Time, that is that is very cold.
Speaker 2: It's a great film.
Speaker 1: What about the film you might relate to relate.
Speaker 3: To, you know, I kind of tumble back into the
Speaker 3: Musketeers again in this in so I don't know if
Speaker 3: we can repeat, but it's like I just saw myself.
Speaker 3: And I think part of it was because I was
Speaker 3: in acting training and so we were we were doing
Speaker 3: sword work, you know, we were doing the classics.
Speaker 2: There was just a lot of and it's a very
Speaker 2: actor movie.
Speaker 3: And I wanted to be a part of that group
Speaker 3: of people that you know, Michael York, Richard Chamberlain, Frank Finlay.
Speaker 2: Oliver Reed.
Speaker 3: I wanted to be one of those guys, you know,
Speaker 3: so and I felt like, this is this is who
Speaker 3: I want to be, This is who I would be
Speaker 3: if I were alive at that time. So I definitely
Speaker 3: I think it was a kinship to that kind of
Speaker 3: brotherhood that I felt with those guys, and I said this,
Speaker 3: this would be my tribe, This would be my family
Speaker 3: if I were you know, if that were real and
Speaker 3: it were.
Speaker 2: That of that time, that would be my It would
Speaker 2: be my people, I feel.
Speaker 1: But it's such a weird life in it, particularly for
Speaker 1: an actor, where like you ended up so being found
Speaker 1: by David Linson and that became such your life. It's
Speaker 1: a huge part of your professional life, is this Tan,
Speaker 1: I bet you never could have pictured or it's such
Speaker 1: a unique position you're in there. I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: actually can to There's no nothing comparable, I think, to
Speaker 1: the way you two have been.
Speaker 3: It's an interesting The journey is. The journey is, as
Speaker 3: you said, when you look back in the middle of it,
Speaker 3: that you have no perspective, you know, you're like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm doing Dune with David. Happened to be a book
Speaker 3: that I loved.
Speaker 2: I started reading when I was fifteen. I read every year.
Speaker 2: I would read it. I would I.
Speaker 3: Would write quotes from the movie on my English teacher's
Speaker 3: blackboard in eighth and ninth grade because she let me.
Speaker 3: I mean, I was really really affected by it. And
Speaker 3: cut to a few years later, I get a phone call.
Speaker 3: They're auditioning in Seattle, where I happened to be doing
Speaker 3: a play for Paul, and my first response was who
Speaker 3: who is this?
Speaker 2: Why are you Frank calling me? And it made no
Speaker 2: sense to me at all. I couldn't quite fathom what
Speaker 2: was happening. And that led to Yeah, it led to everything.
Speaker 1: That's really what is the sexiest film you've ever seen?
Speaker 3: She's not a film, but I watched a clip of
Speaker 3: Anne Margaret dancing on Johnny Carson to something, and I
Speaker 3: don't think she was wearing a bra.
Speaker 6: In fact, I'm pretty sure. And I said they could
Speaker 6: do this on television. That she's crazy sexy. Yeah, she's
Speaker 6: crazy sexy.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Tommy musical film? She runs around
Speaker 1: in baked beans in that I believe, And it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a wonderful piece of cinema.
Speaker 3: I just can watch it again and again and Againlar.
Speaker 1: I'm afraid I have to ask you this. Some agree
Speaker 1: traveling by is worrying? Why ones a film you found
Speaker 1: arousing you weren't sure you should?
Speaker 3: Well, this is yes, and you should apologize because it's conversing.
Speaker 2: The fifth element. Yes, not Bruce Willis.
Speaker 1: You mean what's he called? Leo?
Speaker 2: Leo? Yeah, Lelo. Yeah. She was really good.
Speaker 1: He's really good.
Speaker 2: I was very compressed with.
Speaker 1: He's very good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very good. And the costume that she had
Speaker 2: was great.
Speaker 1: If that was very good? Yeah, what is objectively the
Speaker 1: greatest film of all time? It might not be your favorite,
Speaker 1: but it's the best one best film.
Speaker 3: There's no doubt in my mind that Cuckoo's Nest is.
Speaker 2: Yes, I just yeah, it's a masterpiece.
Speaker 3: It's not as out there as actually two thousand and one,
Speaker 3: let's say either something about it. I just I love
Speaker 3: everything about it. It's just a great film. And it's
Speaker 3: very it takes you want to ride, you know, and
Speaker 3: I just love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you might be right. It's an excellent answer.
Speaker 1: And I can't argue that.
Speaker 3: Like the shining is great, you know, you know that's
Speaker 3: amazing that it's it's a little I I it's not
Speaker 3: as visceral.
Speaker 2: To me as a cucus nest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and cuss is about many things. It's very moving,
Speaker 1: it's funny. Yeah, it's upsetting. Good film. He's fucking you
Speaker 1: know what, Mi las Foeman. He's not on the lists enough,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I'm the great directors. He
Speaker 1: doesn't get mentioned. I don't think as often. He's brilliant.
Speaker 1: You're right, he's so many brilliant films. Why isn't he
Speaker 1: on the list? We need to get him on these lists.
Speaker 3: You should be on Yeah, you should be in the
Speaker 3: conversation anymore, right for sure?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like Amadias, yes please, yes, with that question. I really
Speaker 1: loved the paper vests. Larry Flynn. I think it's I agree,
Speaker 1: really interesting film.
Speaker 2: I agree, I think we didn't. Woody was amazing in that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great boy. Right, you did a play
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: We did a play.
Speaker 3: We were in the West End together at the at
Speaker 3: the Comedy Theater on Panton Street.
Speaker 2: How will I forget every We did a Pinter there?
Speaker 1: We did?
Speaker 2: No, No, we didn't. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: We did a new play. The theater was known as
Speaker 3: the Pinter Theater. There had a lot of Pinter there.
Speaker 3: We did on an average day in the West End.
Speaker 2: Two hander. That's that's that's a we don't much theater.
Speaker 3: I'm to think if I mean you don't stand up,
Speaker 3: that's that's pretty intense.
Speaker 1: I used to before. Before I did stand up. I
Speaker 1: did quite a bit. Yeah, but I haven't done a
Speaker 1: play in years and years, and it's a lot of work.
Speaker 1: It's how long was there? Right? How long we did? We?
Speaker 2: We ran I think three months or something. I think
Speaker 2: we did like one hundred some performances. I remember what.
Speaker 2: He such a character. We got along great. I really
Speaker 2: loved him. I still love him.
Speaker 3: I remember he was saying, he just he said, I
Speaker 3: can't do I can't do ithos a week I just
Speaker 3: can't do it.
Speaker 2: And they were like, what he said, No, I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna shows a week.
Speaker 3: This is that's a full performance of this. You know,
Speaker 3: money is not going to come in, you know. And
Speaker 3: he's like, okay. So they cut back one day and
Speaker 3: they but they paid us less as well. So it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: it's fair enough.
Speaker 2: But but he he was he did that.
Speaker 1: He was happier with that side. What is the film
Speaker 1: that you could all have? What's the mice I've never again?
Speaker 1: And is it the Muscatines film.
Speaker 2: That would be in the list for sure?
Speaker 3: Or it's kind of a toss up between the original
Speaker 3: Blade Runner Apocalypse? Now, yeah, those two would be right
Speaker 3: up there. Groundhog Day will always catch me because I
Speaker 3: just I just love Bill Murray and I just love
Speaker 3: that it's just.
Speaker 2: A fun adventure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think Apocalypse or Blade Runner are the
Speaker 3: two that I I've.
Speaker 2: Watched probably the most. And you know, I just I'm
Speaker 2: I'm such a fan of the well of.
Speaker 3: Ridley Scott first of all, but I just you know,
Speaker 3: of the production value of that, you know, the way
Speaker 3: they made that. I like, I love early Ridley Scott's
Speaker 3: one of my favorite. Ridley Scott's movies, The Duellists in
Speaker 3: Time tel and Keith carrying.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like if you say, what movie do you want
Speaker 3: to watch about France during the time of Napoleon?
Speaker 2: Do you want to watch Napoleon? Or do you want
Speaker 2: to watch the Duelists? And I'll say, oh, what the.
Speaker 3: Duelists, And I'll probably understand the political climate there.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: And again you see this is theme of going back
Speaker 3: to this, this the fact that they they fought these
Speaker 3: duels through the course of the movie with different weapons.
Speaker 2: And again I think I.
Speaker 3: Must have come up on that movie when I was
Speaker 3: in school because that was such a big part of
Speaker 3: our training, was all the sword work, and it was
Speaker 3: so have.
Speaker 1: You ever got to use yodell?
Speaker 2: I only I did it in the play.
Speaker 3: I did it in Romeo and Juliet we did we
Speaker 3: did some sword work, and then in Dune. You know,
Speaker 3: the idea was when we didn't have swords necessarily, but
Speaker 3: we had the short knives, the daggers, and we treated
Speaker 3: them as if they were sorts. So the training was
Speaker 3: kind of kendo style, you know, with that with that blade.
Speaker 2: But no, not, I haven't done anything that. There's no,
Speaker 2: not really a call for sword play.
Speaker 1: Sadly right, we need to put this out anyone listening
Speaker 1: into Hi cal and give them some sword says, because
Speaker 1: this is crazy.
Speaker 2: Something where I can use my my rusty sort of
Speaker 2: skill set.
Speaker 1: What is I don't like to be negative. I don't
Speaker 1: think you too, But what's the worst film you've ever seen?
Speaker 2: Show girls that question?
Speaker 1: Agree to disagree. I love Shogas. Listen, not only do
Speaker 1: I love Shogas, but the amount of people that come
Speaker 1: in this podcast who also love shogas is brilliant. How
Speaker 1: dare you Okay, it's brilliant?
Speaker 2: I stand corrected.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you? Did you? Did you not? I really?
Speaker 1: I think Shas is great. I loved it. I don't
Speaker 1: even love it like later on ironically, like I loved
Speaker 1: it when it come out it was great? Was that
Speaker 1: a weird exper like did you?
Speaker 2: May ask it?
Speaker 3: Well, it was a little weird in sort of the
Speaker 3: day to day filming, because you know there are you know,
Speaker 3: people weren't wearing any clothes.
Speaker 2: You come to set, You're like, okay, that's kind of
Speaker 2: that's not you don't really see that work that often.
Speaker 9: If I didn't mind it, but it was a little
Speaker 9: it was a little strange first thing in the morning
Speaker 9: with your first cup of coffee and you gotta walk
Speaker 9: around naked.
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, okay, all right, start the day off.
Speaker 1: With the bank.
Speaker 2: But you know, it was it was.
Speaker 3: What was created and what the intention was from the
Speaker 3: beginning to the end were two different things, you know,
Speaker 3: and and I get and I appreciate the irony of
Speaker 3: it and the high camp nature of it, which you know,
Speaker 3: if you're going to do high camp, I guess you
Speaker 3: I guess going into it with serious intentions is maybe
Speaker 3: the best. You can't really you can play camp. But
Speaker 3: I think if you're like really really really serious about it,
Speaker 3: I think it's even better. I get, I get the attraction.
Speaker 2: You know, it's highly quotable.
Speaker 3: But it's still yeah, I just, you know, I know
Speaker 3: what we were trying to do, or at least what
Speaker 3: I was trying. Maybe I was in the wrong movie.
Speaker 3: Maybe I was. I thought it was this, but actually
Speaker 3: it was always going to be that.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: What did you may ask then, what you thought what
Speaker 1: was it at the beginning? What did you think it
Speaker 1: would be?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 1: It isn't that you know.
Speaker 3: The intention was to do something really kind of edgy
Speaker 3: and off putting, I think, and really not, you know,
Speaker 3: people with no redeeming qualities really you know, and cut
Speaker 3: throat and just and honestly an attempt on you know,
Speaker 3: on my part, to change the perception a little bit.
Speaker 3: You know, as an actor, you sort of you sort
Speaker 3: of end up funneling down a certain channel, I guess,
Speaker 3: and I said, no, no, I want to. I want to
Speaker 3: change this, you know, I want to. I want to
Speaker 3: ride down a different river, you know, if I can.
Speaker 3: And that was an attempt, very sad sadly, the huge failure.
Speaker 2: And you know.
Speaker 1: I just yah, right, it's pretty wrong.
Speaker 2: Wrong, right, You're gonna talk out of it. By the
Speaker 2: individ episode.
Speaker 1: You should be very bad. I love it. People love it.
Speaker 2: Thank you. All right, all right, I'm coming around.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're very funny. But what's the film that made
Speaker 1: you laugh?
Speaker 3: The mist You know, I'm not a big laugher at
Speaker 3: films like comedy shows. I laugh maybe because it's it's immediate,
Speaker 3: But I find myself when I watch films that are funny,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, that's funny, you.
Speaker 2: Know, I'm like, oh I love that. That's huge. You know,
Speaker 2: Like a movie like Holy.
Speaker 3: Holy Grail, Holy Grail, and and and Faulty Towers.
Speaker 2: John Pleae is to me just he's just genius, and uh,
Speaker 2: there all are. And I guess it's.
Speaker 3: I have this strange reaction where instead of laughing, I go, oh,
Speaker 3: that's brilliant.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I wasn't expecting that. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I love that non secretory.
Speaker 3: Oh it's what you know, But I know it's funny,
Speaker 3: but I'm kind of watching with a different Yeah.
Speaker 1: You what's like a like a Honeywood exec when you're
Speaker 1: being pitched, you watch you just gay. That's funny, that's cute,
Speaker 1: that's funny.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, with that tone exactly, that's funny.
Speaker 1: I love that's funny. Face, that's funny.
Speaker 3: I'm terrible in the audience kid, Yeah, absolutely dead, but
Speaker 3: it's weird.
Speaker 1: I don't know which is your favorite then, Which is
Speaker 1: the one that's made you gone that's funny the most.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: I think seeing Money Python, I gotta say, you know,
Speaker 3: in a Holy Grail from me over Life of Brian,
Speaker 3: I know about that's funny, you know.
Speaker 2: But something about I don't know, this is the whole thing.
Speaker 2: The whole thing is just brilliant.
Speaker 3: Me.
Speaker 2: Just brilliant how they ended.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's I don't know, that would be a
Speaker 3: fun one, would have been a fun troup to be
Speaker 3: a part of.
Speaker 2: You imagine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3: And you know what else is a really funny movie.
Speaker 3: And I think I did the same thing the movie
Speaker 3: as Arthur. The first Arthur. Oh my god, it's just
Speaker 3: it's a perfect little movie. It's a little gem of
Speaker 3: a movie. And Arthur two is just so bad. It's
Speaker 3: you know, it's weird. It's like you talked about earlier
Speaker 3: about trying to recapture something. Is like the casting was brilliant,
Speaker 3: unexpectedly brilliant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that weirdly came up the other day with Vincent
Speaker 1: dinafre He brought we It's come up twice at the
Speaker 1: same time. That's interesting, Kyle. You've been beyond delightful, beyond wonderful.
Speaker 1: Everything I could open more. However, when you came on
Speaker 1: a podcast with Brett Goldstein and you plugged your microphone in,
Speaker 1: we were trying to work out the tech and you
Speaker 1: got electrocuted and you to death, killed by Yetti. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I was watching live on the on the zoom
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, shit. Oh fuck. I was like,
Speaker 1: have I just killed? And I'm such a this is
Speaker 1: this is awful. So I go around and that and that,
Speaker 1: and I see your your lovely wife, and I say,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Can I just nip into the dining room.
Speaker 1: I got a coffee with me, and she goes, what's up?
Speaker 1: And I go, podcast business, don't worry about it. And
Speaker 1: I come into the back. She says, you need any help.
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, I got it, I got it. Don't
Speaker 1: worry about it. Just you carry on. You carry on
Speaker 1: with your business. And I come in and not any
Speaker 1: of you burnt Like this poor boy in the Diablau film.
Speaker 1: You're like you're like stuck to the furniture. So I'm
Speaker 1: having to like chop up some of the wood that
Speaker 1: you're attached on to chop your up. Desert keeps popping
Speaker 1: her head and everything all right, I go, yeah, don't
Speaker 1: worry about it, don't worry about it, you carry on.
Speaker 1: Everything's fine. She guess what's all that notes? Non to
Speaker 1: worry about that stuff you in the coffin. I sneak
Speaker 1: out the back. Basically, there's more than I was expecting.
Speaker 1: You're absolutely round in that coffin. There's only enough room
Speaker 1: in that coffin for me to slip one DVD into
Speaker 1: the side for you to take across to the other
Speaker 1: side and in in Wine Heaven, it's movie night every night.
Speaker 1: What film are you taking to show the people of
Speaker 1: Wine Heaven in Heaven when it's your movie night, camera
Speaker 1: goin And what wine will you pair it with?
Speaker 2: Should I say sideways?
Speaker 1: I bear it with a bat lofe.
Speaker 2: Just a torture of the people in heaven, you do.
Speaker 1: It's a nice idea, could work, You could have it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm taking cale. You're a bloody wonder you are. Is
Speaker 1: there anything you would like to tell people to look
Speaker 1: out for to buy wine? To listen to your podcast?
Speaker 1: What is your podcast called?
Speaker 3: It's called Varnumtown. Varnumtown, and it's a podcast. One did
Speaker 3: it and it's me and Josh Davis and it's you
Speaker 3: can find it if you're a podcast listener. You know
Speaker 3: how to track it down. Eight episodes, No, we're there
Speaker 3: a half hour.
Speaker 2: They're not.
Speaker 3: They're not very long, not a huge not a huge
Speaker 3: demand on your time. And I think it's a great
Speaker 3: it's a great story and a great ride.
Speaker 2: And I think people would enjoy it.
Speaker 1: So and get your wine Pursued by Bear.
Speaker 3: Pursued by Bear, which we have in the UK and
Speaker 3: around the around the country, and we have our own
Speaker 3: little website as well, Pursued by Bear Wine dot com
Speaker 3: and you can read the story and it's a fun
Speaker 3: little if the website is fun, I set it up
Speaker 3: to have a people.
Speaker 2: Have a good time.
Speaker 1: And do you have any other TV or film or
Speaker 1: plays that we should be that we're waiting on.
Speaker 3: So Fallout for Amazon comes We drop April twelfth, and
Speaker 3: that's a big one again, eight episodes based on the
Speaker 3: world of the video game Fallout, and it's Jonah Nolan
Speaker 3: and Lisa Joy, creators of West World.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Great, it's a it's.
Speaker 3: A big sci fi epic that I think. I think
Speaker 3: it's going to be a lot of fun. And they
Speaker 3: spend a lot of time and money on this, so
Speaker 3: it's you know, it's a big thing. It's been fun
Speaker 3: Elo for now. Walton Goggins nice, Yeah, just on and on. Good,
Speaker 3: good group of people. And I'm a for those of
Speaker 3: that know the game, I'm an overseer of Vault thirty
Speaker 3: three and I am Lucy's dad and that's all I said.
Speaker 2: I can say. Okay said.
Speaker 1: Kyle, you know the best. Thank you so much for dinner.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your pistons and for indulging all my
Speaker 1: turn pas questions. Your side generous today and I appreciate
Speaker 1: you know looking boat by it.
Speaker 2: I was not bored for an insider. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 2: This has been a real pleasure.
Speaker 1: Have a wonderful death. Thank you very much. Good day
Speaker 1: to you, sir.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: That was episode two hundred and eighty four. Head over
Speaker 1: to the Patreon at patreon dot com Forward slash break
Speaker 1: Ghosting for the extra chat, secrets and video with Kyle.
Speaker 1: Go to Apple Podcast, give us a five star rating
Speaker 1: and write about the film that means the most of
Speaker 1: you and why it's a lovely thing to read. My
Speaker 1: neighbor Marien loves it. It always makes her cry. If you
Speaker 1: want to come and see me on tour, I'm doing
Speaker 1: my stand up show, The Second Best Night of Your
Speaker 1: Life across America and now Canada. Just look it up.
Speaker 1: You'll find the dates somewhere. Come along, we'll have a
Speaker 1: right old time. Thank you so much to everyone for listening.
Speaker 1: Thank you to Kyle for giving me all that time
Speaker 1: and for putting up with me. Thank you to Scrubious,
Speaker 1: Pip and the distraction pieces of Network. Thanks to Buddy
Speaker 1: thanks for producing it. Thanks to ACAST for hosting it.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics and Lisa Then
Speaker 1: for the photography. Come and join me next week for
Speaker 1: another smasher of a guest. I hope you're all well.
Speaker 1: So that is it for now. In the meantime, have
Speaker 1: a lovely week, and please, now more than ever, be
Speaker 1: excellent to each other.