Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: What's up everyone, It's that's messed up podcast, an SVU
Speaker 2: pot I messed it up.
Speaker 3: But hey, my name is Lisa Trager. I have true truly.
Speaker 2: This is episode one hundred and fifty six, and I
Speaker 2: messed up the name of our podcast.
Speaker 1: We're trying to fly to hot too close to the sun.
Speaker 1: We're trying to mix it up every time, and it's
Speaker 1: just it's hard by.
Speaker 3: Your other host.
Speaker 1: This is a mess already, and I'm loving it. We're
Speaker 1: an SVU recap podcast. We talk about the true crime
Speaker 1: it's based on, and then we also interview a guest,
Speaker 1: usually which we have not been doing. But by the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Strike of the Century is over. The SAG strike
Speaker 1: has ended. Well, it hasn't really been voted on yet,
Speaker 1: and I'm seeing all these people go watch out for
Speaker 1: this AI stuff. But it looks like it's over and
Speaker 1: we are going to be working to get some guests
Speaker 1: back online in the future, so stay tuned for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're really excited about that. I did want to
Speaker 2: say I wore our fanny packs. I really like our merch.
Speaker 2: Sorry guys, but I was wearing the that's messed up
Speaker 2: fanny pack. And I went to our our weed store
Speaker 2: in our neighborhood, and the security guard there he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: so that's your podcast, And I was like, how do
Speaker 2: you know it was mine? He goes, you got to
Speaker 2: be representing, and I was like, do I look like
Speaker 2: a door? Like how did you know? I wasn't just
Speaker 2: supporting a different podcast. I know because I've seen people
Speaker 2: at our shows with the fanny pack, and I don't
Speaker 2: know how he knew I was wearing my own merch.
Speaker 2: Oh my, because this famously happened to me at Jumbo's
Speaker 2: clown Room, a strip club where they do keep their
Speaker 2: clothes on, and a stripper from the from the stage went,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I love your fanny pack.
Speaker 3: What is that?
Speaker 2: And then I had to tell her it's my own podcast,
Speaker 2: Keep dancing, bitch. I I'm embarrassed, but I did buy.
Speaker 2: So my friend's boyfriend works at packs and so I've
Speaker 2: he gifted me one of these pens, like years Zoo
Speaker 2: and I've never used it because I like the burn
Speaker 2: of a joint.
Speaker 3: I want to make the worst vehicle possible for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I finally bought a little thing for the packs.
Speaker 3: I can't wait for your journey. Should I try it
Speaker 3: right now? I got Blue Dream.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, this isn't an ad, but I I you know,
Speaker 2: I watched the documentary. I think the documentary was supposed
Speaker 2: to be a why not to smoke packs and jewel, but.
Speaker 1: It was said be a deterrent. But it's said for you.
Speaker 1: It's been a full marketing ploy and it's worked.
Speaker 3: I looked at the box and I go, you know what,
Speaker 3: maybe that vapor will save my life.
Speaker 1: Wait, but speaking of merch, I wanted to just mention
Speaker 1: we've been posting it on our in but we have
Speaker 1: a new t shirt. You guys loved the sweatshirts that
Speaker 1: we're wearing in our fall tour promo looks, and we
Speaker 1: decided to make Lisa's sweatshirt in that one, the Crimson one,
Speaker 1: into a merch item. It is on the Exactly Right
Speaker 1: store dot com. It's up and it's gonna ship in
Speaker 1: early December. So if you want it for Christmas gifts,
Speaker 1: you should get it soon because you know all the
Speaker 1: Christmas shipping and all that shit, but it's so cute.
Speaker 1: It's like an old school college sweatshirt that says that's
Speaker 1: messed Up, Established twenty twenty and then in the center.
Speaker 1: You can't tell all the time from our promotion of it,
Speaker 1: but it does say ambitious and tipsy and has like
Speaker 1: a little bit of like cute that's messed up seal
Speaker 1: on it if you will. So if you are a
Speaker 1: student at That's messed Up, you you need to grab this. Also,
Speaker 1: the do you Have Children Detective shirts have been restocked.
Speaker 1: They're now like a different They're now like a slouchy
Speaker 1: T shirt. So they were like a muscle tea and
Speaker 1: now it's a slouchy T shirt. Get involved one of those.
Speaker 1: We love seeing you guys at our live shows popping
Speaker 1: in in our merch.
Speaker 3: It's so fun. It really is exciting. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also, Liza and I famously have been running into each
Speaker 1: other at the airport while meeting each other at the
Speaker 1: airport dressed as twins in our purple That's Messed Up sweatshirt,
Speaker 1: which is still available online, as well as the is
Speaker 1: This Merch beanie. And speaking of popping into our live shows.
Speaker 1: I cannot let you guys not know that we are
Speaker 1: going to be in Sacramento on December thirteenth. We had
Speaker 1: the best time in Sacramento last year. Please get your
Speaker 1: tickets sack down. Our six pm New York show is
Speaker 1: like dangerously close to selling out. I think, honestly there's
Speaker 1: four tickets left. And then we added a nine o'clock show.
Speaker 1: Don't embarrass us, you guys. If the six o'clock is
Speaker 1: sold out and the nine o'clock doesn't have enough people,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cry. I just think it will be a
Speaker 1: really fun Christmas night together in New York at City Winery.
Speaker 1: They've got amazing food, they've got a fun ambiance.
Speaker 3: Grab a friend. Come on over, Philadelphia, Come on over, baby.
Speaker 1: Then we're in Philly on the seventeenth, and then we're
Speaker 1: kicking off the new year in Seattle at the Wet
Speaker 1: City Comedy Festival on January seventh.
Speaker 3: Lisa will be there on the sixth.
Speaker 2: And your American flag regalia. We're gonna celebrate January sixth
Speaker 2: and all of its glory because the election was a fraud, Jacob.
Speaker 1: But go to go to that's messed up. Live dot
Speaker 1: com that actually has the link to all of our
Speaker 1: tickets as well as a link to the merch shop
Speaker 1: in case you, like are driving and didn't get to
Speaker 1: write down the website I said before our mert shop
Speaker 1: and everything is linked at that's messed up live dot com.
Speaker 3: You really got me on the promo. Yeah, you really
Speaker 3: got it out there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just can't handle one more person writing and going,
Speaker 1: when's your Salt Lake City show? And I'm like, three
Speaker 1: days ago, I'm so sorry you missed it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like we do our best. I don't know how
Speaker 1: we don't get the word out sometimes. So that's here
Speaker 1: I am yeah, hell yeah in the rooftops.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I also want to say that saying Sacktown is disgusting.
Speaker 3: Well, it's from.
Speaker 1: A Tupac song. Oh really yeah, California Love.
Speaker 3: Okay, I know that song.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that he talks about Sacramento in it,
Speaker 2: and I didn't know that he called it Sacktown. I
Speaker 2: obviously think of a ball sack. I think what listener
Speaker 2: did not think of a ball sack from?
Speaker 1: I think he says from Oakland to Sacktown, the Bay
Speaker 1: Area and back down. So yeah, I don't normally say sacktown.
Speaker 1: That's like, I'm not like a person that says sack tone.
Speaker 1: It just came to me from my love of Tupac.
Speaker 1: I'm like Jada over here. I can't stop talking about Tupac.
Speaker 2: I guess wait, since the strike is over, I feel
Speaker 2: like I would like to talk about Survival of the Thickest. Yes,
Speaker 2: it is still on Netflix and I'm not on Instagram.
Speaker 2: I got off for a few weeks, so if you've
Speaker 2: been at all messaging me, I needed a break. But
Speaker 2: garcel has gone viral and people are talking about it again,
Speaker 2: so that makes me really happy. So and people at
Speaker 2: our shows do come up and say they watched it
Speaker 2: in a day.
Speaker 3: It's a real easy, cute, sweet fun watch. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you just said it, but
Speaker 1: it's on Netflix, so it's available, and it's brand name, yeah,
Speaker 1: like Garcela is in it, Mochelle Vessage is in it.
Speaker 1: It's like it's really fun and it's just like sweet.
Speaker 1: It has like it's not at all like Shit's Creek,
Speaker 1: but it gives me like that warm like right before
Speaker 1: I go to bed positivity vibe of Shit's Creek, Like
Speaker 1: you know, not watching always Murder right before bed, which
Speaker 1: we also.
Speaker 3: Do plenty of times.
Speaker 1: But if you want a little palette cleanser, throw on
Speaker 1: a survival of the Thickest.
Speaker 2: So I was, you know, I watch a lot of TV.
Speaker 2: It's just part of my life and I need it,
Speaker 2: I want it, and I love adult animation, and so
Speaker 2: something popped up on my Amazon. I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: I'll watch it now. It's called The Good Family, but
Speaker 2: it's from twenty thirteen or twenty twelve, which was really
Speaker 2: shocking to me because it's making fun of like a progressive,
Speaker 2: woke family. So I just but it's Mike Judge, I think,
Speaker 2: from t twelve twenty thirteen, Like wow, it's ahead of
Speaker 2: its time, but it's making fun of like freegins and
Speaker 2: just like white families that't want to be progressive and
Speaker 2: are always like worried about stuff, and everyone's annoyed by
Speaker 2: the Good Family and like, I don't know, it's just
Speaker 2: so it was just wacky and ahead of its time.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't say it was good, but I watched
Speaker 2: it two times through Wow because for Bed for.
Speaker 3: Bed for bed, yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 1: It has a lot of cool people doing voices too,
Speaker 1: like it has well, it's got Steve Correll's wife, Nancy Walls,
Speaker 1: who I love. It's got Linda Cardellini. Oh, I love her,
Speaker 1: love her. And then I'm just like paging through some
Speaker 1: of the guests and it's like Julia Sweeney from SNL
Speaker 1: and like Chree Summer and like people that it.
Speaker 3: Just came out of nowhere and it's ten years old
Speaker 3: and I just.
Speaker 1: Had never guess who's a voice Deadrich Bader, your favorite?
Speaker 1: The guys, the guy who's the husband on American Housewife
Speaker 1: that Lisa is like, he has.
Speaker 3: A wild name. No one can ever remember it. Oh,
Speaker 3: I didn't see her. I have a name. Drop listen.
Speaker 2: I missed it. But du Lipa was at the comedy
Speaker 2: store last night. No, yeah, one of the door guys
Speaker 2: in a comic. He came up to me and he goes,
Speaker 2: I think he'd been going up to dudes who didn't
Speaker 2: know who she was. So he showed me a photo
Speaker 2: on his phone. He goes, she's here. And I start
Speaker 2: jumping up and down and I do a dance where
Speaker 2: I like, I bend down and start punching the ground,
Speaker 2: and the guys behind me were like, is this the
Speaker 2: reaction that you wanted, and he goes yes.
Speaker 3: Because I think going up knowing what they want, I
Speaker 3: love it. I think people were just like, no, I
Speaker 3: don't want you know.
Speaker 2: But so I was prepping for her, but by the
Speaker 2: time I went up, she was gone. But I should
Speaker 2: have just at least took a sneak peek. I love
Speaker 2: to see celebrities in person to see how beautiful they are.
Speaker 1: But I like that she was there. I really liked
Speaker 1: du A Lipa's voice. I think she's great, and I
Speaker 1: think we need to stop trying to make her dance.
Speaker 3: She's just not gonna dance.
Speaker 2: I saw her live this past tour. She she killed it.
Speaker 2: She's getting better, you know what I mean. Like it
Speaker 2: was sexy, but her dancers do most of the work.
Speaker 2: She doesn't have to dance. But it's like you are
Speaker 2: you gotta shimeila, you have.
Speaker 1: It around a little bit. Yeah, like Rihanna is like
Speaker 1: in that vein. You know, they just kind.
Speaker 2: Of well because Arianna doesn't really have to dance that much,
Speaker 2: but her voice is way more like she's not. The
Speaker 2: voice is a higher octaves, there's range, and I just
Speaker 2: feel like, do a, You're not losing your breath.
Speaker 3: Why don't you spin around a little bit? But I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: So the way that ever, the al the other guys
Speaker 2: reacted to him explaining dua lipa me trying to talk
Speaker 2: about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce to my friends that
Speaker 2: are black has been comical to me because I've been
Speaker 2: watching the videos over and over and over and they
Speaker 2: had not seen it at all. They didn't even know
Speaker 2: about Karma as a guy, and the chiefs like they
Speaker 2: are not involved in any capacity. And it was like
Speaker 2: the Watch What Happens Live game with Andy Cohen where
Speaker 2: he asks.
Speaker 3: Straight people like do straight people give a damn?
Speaker 2: And then they like, he shows like pretty gay topics
Speaker 2: and then the straight decide. And That's how I felt
Speaker 2: going going around there. Oh my god, they could not
Speaker 2: care less listen. I am fully reformed. I am a
Speaker 2: full I It's it's hard not to think it's we
Speaker 2: are but I'm all in. I'm all in. I love romance.
Speaker 2: I'm like so into it, it's really sick. I've watched
Speaker 2: I watched the video of the dancers reacting at least
Speaker 2: twenty five times. I've watched the video of him covering
Speaker 2: his face dozens, if not a hundred times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I cannot.
Speaker 2: Stop watching the same thing. I feel like I'm twelve
Speaker 2: years old discovering the Backstreet Boys again. Like it's this
Speaker 2: mania I haven't felt in a really long time. And
Speaker 2: I just keep listening to the songs. JK, I feel
Speaker 2: this mania all the time. I'm playing my Mario Nintendo
Speaker 2: switch and non stop. I get obsessed. I get obsessed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you focus in, you drill down, as
Speaker 1: they say.
Speaker 2: So, Yeah, I'm in the whirlwind.
Speaker 3: I've been listening to all the albums.
Speaker 2: I am just I'm just different now and I yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna see her in Europe.
Speaker 3: I have decide also, or the UK, you know, brexit whatever.
Speaker 1: This episode comes out a few days after Thanksgiving. We're
Speaker 1: obviously on the time machine. It's not Thanksgiving yet, but
Speaker 1: I just want to say I'm very thankful for all
Speaker 1: of our listeners.
Speaker 3: You guys are so cool when you come to our
Speaker 3: live shows.
Speaker 1: You guys bring us like such thoughtful stuff, these like
Speaker 1: friendship bracelets.
Speaker 3: It's like we feel like Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1: You're bringing us like good oh my god, chocolate, like
Speaker 1: candy like I had, like cute gifts for my kids,
Speaker 1: and uh.
Speaker 2: I just don't even have to like your presence and
Speaker 2: that is so magical that like we are not exaggerating.
Speaker 2: Every venue we leave, we hear how great our audience is.
Speaker 2: Like every club, every server is like your people can
Speaker 2: come back anytime they want. Like truly, you guys are
Speaker 2: We're like so proud that you guys are our listeners
Speaker 2: and you're all. What makes me even more proud is
Speaker 2: people psychologists fbi A, you know, sociology professors like listening
Speaker 2: to us when we're covering topics that they are kind
Speaker 2: of professional kind of they are professionals at and still
Speaker 2: engaging with us.
Speaker 3: And it's like I feel proud. It's just like.
Speaker 2: Cool to see fun ass powerful people coming to our shows.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you guys are the best. So we're thankful for.
Speaker 3: And I love stuffing. Yeah, thankful for stuffing. I love stuffing.
Speaker 1: That's my favorite. I would say that's my favorite Thanksgiving item.
Speaker 1: Food item me too.
Speaker 3: Why don't we eat it all year round?
Speaker 1: I just bought a box of it, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't even care when I make this, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: keep it. I like got a box at Trader Joe's
Speaker 1: and I was like, I want stuffing. Another time I didn't.
Speaker 1: Probably do we just it's you know, and I feel Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3: So bad for my mother.
Speaker 2: She makes like her own and then makes me a
Speaker 2: stovetop one and then she makes cranberry sauce and then
Speaker 2: I eat it mine out of the can.
Speaker 3: Same.
Speaker 1: I always go, I don't want the fulberries, I want
Speaker 1: the can And like, if there's ever like a fancy stuffing,
Speaker 1: I'm like, is there like a stovetop?
Speaker 3: Like that is truly my favorite.
Speaker 1: I actually took a gamble buying the Trader Joe's kind
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I sat there and I go, should
Speaker 1: I just go to a regular grocery store and get
Speaker 1: stove talk?
Speaker 2: So you trust Trader Joe's might as well try it,
Speaker 2: like they do have good at high quality of products.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I bet it's good. I bet it's good. And
Speaker 3: I I got.
Speaker 2: The guy's plan. I learned like he did small parking
Speaker 2: lots on purpose.
Speaker 3: Did you know that? No?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cheaper, like you have to pay for all
Speaker 2: that parking lot land. That's why his store and the
Speaker 2: parking lot is tiny. His whole thing is like fuck
Speaker 2: paying a lot for rent because that makes things more expensive.
Speaker 2: So he's able. I had a key. I don't even
Speaker 2: know who the guy is, but they're able to keep
Speaker 2: the prices lower because it's less real estate.
Speaker 3: And that's why the parking lots are so topsy turvy. Oh,
Speaker 3: very smart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I went to Whole Foods today to return
Speaker 1: something Amazon, and the parking situation is annoying. Whole Foods
Speaker 1: is so out of control how expensive it is.
Speaker 2: But anyway, but nothing to me is like more beautiful
Speaker 2: than the Whole Food's cut up fruit area, the pre
Speaker 2: cut fruit. It's giant, it's every fruit. It's so colorful,
Speaker 2: it's so bright, it's so fresh. I walk in and
Speaker 2: it's like seeing God, Like, I just love the cut
Speaker 2: up fruit.
Speaker 3: There. I do that. I actually don't grow a free
Speaker 3: shop at all.
Speaker 2: I laid in my bed and I postmated Vaughns to
Speaker 2: my house.
Speaker 3: That's what I did.
Speaker 2: Because I needed water bottles because I know it's bad
Speaker 2: for the environment, but it's the only way I hydrate.
Speaker 2: It's like a mental block, So I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: not cleaning a straw. I'll get a disease. I'm That's
Speaker 2: not where I thrive. Are we going to the mall today?
Speaker 2: Should we get this going? Yeah, let's go. We're going
Speaker 2: to the mall. Guys, we gotta go to the mall.
Speaker 2: We're go get in. We're going shopping. All right, stay tuned.
Speaker 2: Awesome episode coming up. Okay, we are doing de Pray
Speaker 2: Depravity Depravity Standard, Depravity Pravity. Yeah, Depravity Standard, Season seventeen,
Speaker 2: episode nine, And this is the second part of a
Speaker 2: two parter. So if you did not listen to last
Speaker 2: week's episode Manhattan Visual, and that is part one. And
Speaker 2: these are like four seasons apart or three seasons apart,
Speaker 2: so they really I wonder what the scheduling of this was.
Speaker 2: Do you think they planned on having two parts where
Speaker 2: they decided to bring Tom.
Speaker 3: Size more back to have twitches on the screen.
Speaker 1: I there's no way they could have planned this and
Speaker 1: been like, in three seasons, we're gonna get Tom size
Speaker 1: more back. Like I feel like they you know, it
Speaker 1: probably worked out with him being available and shit, and
Speaker 1: that's and they decided to like do a second part
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 3: Also, you love this woman.
Speaker 1: That plays the mother, like they probably were like, let's
Speaker 1: get this good, these good actors back. This Israeli actress
Speaker 1: that plays the other boys mom. You know, there's like
Speaker 1: a good little cast. Maybe they're like, let's get the
Speaker 1: band back together and do a follow up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. It was good. I was into it.
Speaker 2: And I think they really weaved in clues from the
Speaker 2: last episode into this seamlessly, Like it wasn't over exposition
Speaker 2: in a way where you're like, okay, iced tea, you're
Speaker 2: just telling us what happened.
Speaker 3: Like they really did it smooth.
Speaker 2: I thought, if you don't want to listen to the
Speaker 2: last week's episode, you'll get all the info throughout.
Speaker 1: And I'm just gonna say something controversial up front. This
Speaker 1: is like my least favorite Olivia hair, just like the butt,
Speaker 1: like that stick straight to ripe below the chin. It's
Speaker 1: not my favorite. Like I like her to have a
Speaker 1: little bit of body, you know, you like volume, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like volume.
Speaker 2: It's just hard like the curly haired jew and me
Speaker 2: is like jealous, you know, like I will always I
Speaker 2: will always love that hair. I will always be jealous.
Speaker 2: I will always be like, oh, what a lucky woman,
Speaker 2: you know, so funny.
Speaker 1: As a child, I was so jealous of the girls
Speaker 1: with like thin, like fucking emaciated hair that like was
Speaker 1: like tiny, like they had barely any hair on their head.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, look at what a silky ponytail they have.
Speaker 1: And I have my like curls, my baby curls that
Speaker 1: will never get straight. And now I'm like happy that
Speaker 1: I'm the other way because my children have taken my hair.
Speaker 2: No, but you're totally right, Like thinking about the thin
Speaker 2: ponytails I was envious of is so laughable now, like,
Speaker 2: of course I like a thick pony but I will
Speaker 2: always it's just the ease.
Speaker 3: Like my curls. It's just always so much.
Speaker 1: But like your signature messy bun like that can't exist
Speaker 1: when you have like skinny.
Speaker 3: Little threads of blonde. I know.
Speaker 2: But my favorite messy bun is my friend Little Frecks,
Speaker 2: and her hair is like it's it flops around in
Speaker 2: this way that I really enjoy. But it's just the
Speaker 2: consistency I'm jealous of as well. Like with curl, I
Speaker 2: don't know how the curl will look and these do
Speaker 2: not DM me products. I have allergies, so I know
Speaker 2: good products exist. I am struggling, okay, yes, so, and
Speaker 2: and I thought I was out of the woods because
Speaker 2: I keep thinking I'm gonna grow out of it, and
Speaker 2: then this trip, this road trip. By the end, my
Speaker 2: legs are fully inflamed. The towels, the towels, I think.
Speaker 3: Do me in. It's like, you know, one courtyard and
Speaker 3: your fuck.
Speaker 1: You can't like travel with a towel, Like you can't
Speaker 1: put a damp towel back in your suitcase, like.
Speaker 2: I just have to air dry or have a robe
Speaker 2: of some kind. I don't know this is I will
Speaker 2: start the episode. Okay, Okay, I cannot talk about my
Speaker 2: my sores again. Sores make it sound worse. Okay, So
Speaker 2: were you scared of a bola as a kid?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Terrible, too terrified.
Speaker 2: I thought you would look like an enchilada, Like that's
Speaker 2: how I pictured it in my head. I'm like, your
Speaker 2: blood comes out and you're an enchilada.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, cares really taken by this? That is fun,
Speaker 3: like my favorite thing to eat. I don't know if
Speaker 3: I can even have one now, you know, I love it. Enchilada.
Speaker 3: We will. Well, that's like what I thought of as
Speaker 3: a kid. I also don't know why I thought I
Speaker 3: thought of a bowla currently, Yah knows what's going on?
Speaker 2: Okay, So Hulu has this as an episode eight. It's
Speaker 2: episode nine A two thousand and five, Oh the year
Speaker 2: I graduated high school.
Speaker 3: Okay, So we open with some.
Speaker 2: Grainy footage and a close up of a man and
Speaker 2: we hear a voice say, we just need to hear
Speaker 2: you say it. And they're trying to get a confession.
Speaker 2: And this is Tom Sizemore, which is a name I
Speaker 2: mentioned last week. I've heard many times. He has two
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty nine credits. Not one I've seen this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we talked to my reference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah again to me, he's Heidi Flice's ex boyfriend
Speaker 1: and he has passed as well.
Speaker 3: So and you told me.
Speaker 2: Last week that he had issues with substance abuse and
Speaker 2: he played it perfectly in this episode.
Speaker 3: I would say he looks he is good.
Speaker 1: He is good as this character unless he's terrifying.
Speaker 3: Oh do you think I don't know. I have no idea.
Speaker 3: I'm hoping not.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping he was like the way he just does
Speaker 1: like wild eyes lit like dark, different places, Like I
Speaker 1: was like really buying into this character.
Speaker 2: Blade, yeah Slade. So he's admitting to doing it but
Speaker 2: doesn't know the kid's name. And we hear Benson's voices
Speaker 2: like Hector Rodriguez. Still it's just a close up of
Speaker 2: his face, and then it's like he had a backpack.
Speaker 2: He started talking to me and bothering me, and he
Speaker 2: followed me back to my building and we pull back.
Speaker 2: He's wearing a wife beater. Classic. He says, nothing happened.
Speaker 2: Benson pushes something happened. He again is like, nothing happened,
Speaker 2: but he said he was going to tell his mother
Speaker 2: that something did happen. So that made Tom size more
Speaker 2: snap his neck. But nothing happened, but he did snap
Speaker 2: the neck, and he was gonna lie about snapping the
Speaker 2: neck but then decided not to and then he put
Speaker 2: him under the concrete slab.
Speaker 3: So now we're at Supreme Court too five.
Speaker 2: He's in an orange hump suit and Benson's with Hector's
Speaker 2: mom in the court audience.
Speaker 1: So this is like the first time in all time
Speaker 1: where the trial is actually in Like this is how
Speaker 1: long it would take a trial to go, Like it
Speaker 1: would be three years later, But normally on the show,
Speaker 1: it's like the following week he's on the stand, you know,
Speaker 1: Like in reality, it's like years before these people get
Speaker 1: on the stamp but go on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so much scheduling.
Speaker 2: I also wonder I've never really thought about what COVID
Speaker 2: did to court and.
Speaker 1: How Oh I'm on dry day right now, I'm on
Speaker 1: jury duty right now? Wait what, I'm on jury duty
Speaker 1: this week. I reschedule because of all of our storing,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, i'll be home that week.
Speaker 3: I'll just do it that week.
Speaker 1: And but I just have to check in every night
Speaker 1: online and it's so far it's told me you don't
Speaker 1: have to come in. So I'll check in tonight and
Speaker 1: it'll tell me if I have to go in tomorrow.
Speaker 1: If it tells me I have to go in tomorrow,
Speaker 1: I'm going to say I have COVID or something because
Speaker 1: I'm going on a field trip with my daughter and
Speaker 1: I don't want to miss it.
Speaker 3: But isn't that a good enough excuse. I'm chaperoning a
Speaker 3: field trip, I think.
Speaker 1: So it's like you have to like what you can postpone,
Speaker 1: and I already did postpone, but like you can't, like
Speaker 1: in the middle of it, just say, oh, a work
Speaker 1: thing came up, like you're supposed to, like you have
Speaker 1: to be there.
Speaker 3: So it is our civic duty.
Speaker 1: And I do agree with jury duty, but it's my
Speaker 1: daughter's first field trip, and I really feel like I
Speaker 1: have to go. I also don't think I'll ever get
Speaker 1: picked for jury duty. If they're like, what do you do,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have a true crime podcast, Like I
Speaker 1: just don't think I'm ever I'm like, I watch Law
Speaker 1: and Order for a living, Like, I don't really think
Speaker 1: that they're ever going to pick us.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: Well, because famously, when I did get to go to
Speaker 2: jury duty, I sat in the box, I got interviewed,
Speaker 2: I was sent home before lunch, but I was like crushing,
Speaker 2: like I was killing at this thing because he said,
Speaker 2: does anyone have experience? And I've raised my This was
Speaker 2: this was before our podcast. I was still living in Chicago,
Speaker 2: but I raised my hand and he goes, oh. The
Speaker 2: judge was like, where do you have your crime knowledge?
Speaker 2: I go I watch a lot of criminal television. And
Speaker 2: then everyone started laughing. The judge was cackling like I
Speaker 2: was like killing it.
Speaker 3: Who was like yeah?
Speaker 2: And then my friend worked downtown, so we met up
Speaker 2: for lunch and I got to use my you know
Speaker 2: cash that they give.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't know. I loved being a part
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 1: But I don't really know what's happening because it's like
Speaker 1: no one's asked me a damn question. I just signed
Speaker 1: on to a computer every night, and then it goes,
Speaker 1: you don't okay, you don't have to come in tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Well, the items of people sitting upstairs never never picked.
Speaker 2: I was lucky enough to be in the first group
Speaker 2: got to sit in the jurors box answer questions, but
Speaker 2: it was car.
Speaker 3: Insurance, so I didn't want to be in there, Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I did jury duty one time.
Speaker 1: Next sitting waiting to get called, sitting next to one
Speaker 1: of the Queer Eye guys, but the original Queer Eye guys,
Speaker 1: the one who did interior design, the.
Speaker 2: Original Oh, one of the og Fab five was just
Speaker 2: bartending and watch What Happens Live and Andy Cohen said,
Speaker 2: you built this house.
Speaker 3: Oh and that was a house O Brambo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's true, and I loved that Andy gave
Speaker 2: it to you built this house. Not enough to be
Speaker 2: on the couch, but we'll let you behind the.
Speaker 3: Bar, all right.
Speaker 2: So we're in court. We're back, Baby Barba is there?
Speaker 2: The defense attorney has a comb over. Mister Hoda, the
Speaker 2: lawyer says, pleads guilty, but he has to say it
Speaker 2: out loud, and he's really struggling to do so he
Speaker 2: looks at Benson and the crying mother and goes, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing time for this, and Barba's like, ah, well,
Speaker 2: we had a deal that we cut to a uniform
Speaker 2: cop who is Alexander Karpovsky aka Ray from Girls aka
Speaker 2: Ray Pishanski aka auxiliary Cop Lomiti. So then back to
Speaker 2: Hodah like, no, man, everyone was yelling at me, and
Speaker 2: it's like who was yelling at you? And he points
Speaker 2: to Barbara the lawyer. Then he pours to Benson and
Speaker 2: he's like, I swear to God your honor, I am
Speaker 2: insent I did not hurt these boys. And the judge
Speaker 2: is Hashi Horowitz and we're in chambers to discuss. But
Speaker 2: our boy fired his homover lawyer and he wants to
Speaker 2: be his own lawyer, and they're like that's not a
Speaker 2: good idea, but they're like, well you need to you
Speaker 2: committed to the deal, like you need to commit to
Speaker 2: a deal, and he goes no. So then Benson's like,
Speaker 2: I pushed you because you had it to kidnapping Wyatt
Speaker 2: mor As, a seven year old child who would be
Speaker 2: dead in a basement if you didn't tell us where
Speaker 2: he was. He's like, oh, so I actually saved him.
Speaker 2: And she's like, you admitted to kidnapping him, and you
Speaker 2: admitted to killing Hector. And she's stern, pissed and beautiful,
Speaker 2: and he says, you put words in my mouth. And
Speaker 2: then Hashi wants him to get a better lawyer, and
Speaker 2: he's like, fine, great, I'll get a better lawyer. And
Speaker 2: if you want to take me down, you're going to
Speaker 2: have to prove it. He laughs and says he didn't
Speaker 2: do it, and he's dragged away in cuffs. So now
Speaker 2: Hector's mom is like, fuck, can he even do this?
Speaker 2: And the other mom is there too. Whyatt's mom so,
Speaker 2: and if we don't remember, Whyatt is the boy that
Speaker 2: was kidnapped and that helped uncover Hector's kidnapping thirteen years
Speaker 2: before that. So this is an ongoing thing. And so
Speaker 2: in the end of that Manhattan Vigil episode, we find
Speaker 2: out how to signed for all the concrete that they
Speaker 2: found Hector's body underneath, and he admitted to taking Wyatt
Speaker 2: because his dad owed him money and he didn't want
Speaker 2: people like for anyone to say.
Speaker 3: That he was a pedophile anywhere?
Speaker 1: So who So remember like at the end of that episod,
Speaker 1: So I was like, what is the motive is he
Speaker 1: attracted to these kids? Because they don't really they threaten
Speaker 1: the child molester thing with him about jail, but like
Speaker 1: they never really explicitly say that any of these kids
Speaker 1: were molested. And so that is the first time that
Speaker 1: they're saying that the reason he took why it is
Speaker 1: because of money. I forgot about. I didn't realize that's why. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was trying to get back because they have screwed
Speaker 1: him and gave him a shitty apartment and not like
Speaker 1: nice after he's burned all these buildings down for them.
Speaker 3: And I'm on his side here the scars to prove it.
Speaker 2: He works hard and the rich keep getting richer and
Speaker 2: they should the son should have just like given him some.
Speaker 3: Money, you know what I mean. Yeah, So we're all
Speaker 3: in a meeting.
Speaker 2: It's Benson, Barbara and the moms, and they say we're
Speaker 2: going to push the convict him of why it's kidnapping
Speaker 2: because the evidence is more fresh and he can identify him.
Speaker 2: And the mom's like, hold on, you know, he'd have
Speaker 2: to testify and Benson goes, yeah, and we'll support him,
Speaker 2: and the other mom is like, hold up, you're not
Speaker 2: going to charge him for killing my son. And Barbara
Speaker 2: is like the evidence is sixteen years old now and
Speaker 2: it's circumstantial. But Wyatt's mom keeps looking down and we
Speaker 2: can assume what's about to happen. Not gonna let her
Speaker 2: son testify. This is definitely a bingo item of SCO.
Speaker 2: And she gets up and says, no, he is still
Speaker 2: traumatized and we're not going to put him through this.
Speaker 2: Me and my ex don't agree on anything, but we
Speaker 2: agree on this. Benson stops her at the door like, bitch,
Speaker 2: come on, he's a kid killer. We need to get him,
Speaker 2: and she goes, I don't care, it's about Wyatt. And
Speaker 2: Hector's mom starts to plead like please please, I'm sorry
Speaker 2: what happened to your son, but my son, and she
Speaker 2: can't even finish the sentence and Wyatt's mom's like I'm
Speaker 2: sorry and runs away, and Hector's mom is crying, oh oh,
Speaker 2: I mean the cry is better than what I just did.
Speaker 3: And Barbo.
Speaker 2: Barba's like, we'll bring charges on the crimes against sector
Speaker 2: and then she's like but we can use what you know,
Speaker 2: like he did to Whyat in the trial, and they're like,
Speaker 2: that'll be up to the judge. So the dramatic music
Speaker 2: plays and we start with the credits, and when we're back,
Speaker 2: Caresi is catching up to Barba in the middle of
Speaker 2: a marble courtroom hallway and he's like, so you know,
Speaker 2: I'm at law school at night, right, And Barba's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was alerted by the bar association. So they both
Speaker 2: giggle a little bit, and he wants to shadow the
Speaker 2: case and feels like he can learn a lot. Barbara
Speaker 2: is like, ah, no, thank you, and he's like, well
Speaker 2: live already said it, can do it, and so Barbara
Speaker 2: begrudgingly agrees. And the rule is you better not speak shadows,
Speaker 2: keep their mouth shut. He promises, you don't even know
Speaker 2: I'm here. I do not trust him he will be talking.
Speaker 1: He's still like in full like early sunny Kreesi mode too,
Speaker 1: where like the accent is like so thick, like he drops.
Speaker 3: A little bit of that in the moment recent like when.
Speaker 1: He becomes an Ada, you know, like yeah that He's.
Speaker 4: Still like I got this. Oh my god, your dad's
Speaker 4: a legend. You know, like he's so like he's just
Speaker 4: so earnest. Yeah and so, and I love this defense attorney.
Speaker 4: Her name is Robyn Weigert. Oh yeah, yeah, she yaps,
Speaker 4: she does. I like the moment I saw on screen,
Speaker 4: I was obsessed.
Speaker 2: And she's also in the episode recall season eight, episode three,
Speaker 2: and that's the one with the dad from the Nanny.
Speaker 3: That's that episode. And I was looking her.
Speaker 2: I'm like, why am I so drawn to her? I'm
Speaker 2: not sure? And so I looked at the IMDb. I'm like,
Speaker 2: Jessica Jones, I did watch that her Big Things, you know,
Speaker 2: you watch Sons of Anarchy in Deadwood.
Speaker 3: And then it hit me.
Speaker 2: She's the therapist for Nicole Kidman in Big Little Eyes. Yes,
Speaker 2: and that's why I felt so protected the moment I
Speaker 2: saw her. Yes, I didn't know why she had a
Speaker 2: hold on me. I couldn't recognize her, and once I
Speaker 2: saw Big Little Lies, I'm like, of course you helped
Speaker 2: Nicole Kidman get away. No.
Speaker 1: She plays a really badass character in Deadwood too, Like
Speaker 1: Deadwood's this very male show, like all the women are
Speaker 1: basically like sex workers, but she's Calamity Jane, like she's
Speaker 1: like a man like a woman in a man's world,
Speaker 1: you know, and like she's really good in Deadwood. I
Speaker 1: mean I've only watched the first season, but she's very good.
Speaker 2: And she has a cute little brunette bob and I'm
Speaker 2: obsessed and.
Speaker 3: She's like, whoa, who's the eye? Candy wants to fuck
Speaker 3: Dominic and Greasey's like, hello, Night's School at fordham Low.
Speaker 1: This episode is really like I didn't think this was
Speaker 1: funny when I was watching it, but now I'm laughing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's embarrassing.
Speaker 2: And he then already starts talking too much for a shadow,
Speaker 2: but he's like, I know all your dad's cases. He
Speaker 2: did the Black Panther defense. She cuts him off to
Speaker 2: talk to Barba. She wants to plead this out, and
Speaker 2: he doesn't get why she even took this pro bono
Speaker 2: case for this scumbag.
Speaker 3: And he keeps talking.
Speaker 2: About his daddy and Barba's like, yeah, okay, she's still
Speaker 2: trying to impress him, even though he's been dead for
Speaker 2: eleven years. Okay, Barba s that would impress your dad
Speaker 2: getting off a child killer, Like I don't get, like
Speaker 2: that seems like a very strange pro bono case to
Speaker 2: take I know, but I think it's like the challenge
Speaker 2: where I think you convinced yourself or you you know,
Speaker 2: you could believe everyone deserves a defense, like that's part
Speaker 2: of our legal system, and if you're able to get
Speaker 2: someone like this off, that means you're good at your job.
Speaker 2: So maybe that's but the dad seemed to work for
Speaker 2: like the Black Panthers and Noble Causes, so that's yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: So we're in court and she heroits on the bench
Speaker 2: and they go back and forth trying to get their way,
Speaker 2: classic prosecution versus defense vibes, trying to get the other
Speaker 2: cases into the trial, but the judge says he's not
Speaker 2: muddying the waters of the case, so Wyatt's case will
Speaker 2: not be included. Now she's trying to get the confession
Speaker 2: video out and calls it course. Barbara's like, well, it's
Speaker 2: on video, so we should just let the jury decide
Speaker 2: for themselves, and the judge does agree. And the judge
Speaker 2: also loves this lawyer's dad. She's like, oh god, your
Speaker 2: dead dad, love him and it's like he has been
Speaker 2: dead for eleven years.
Speaker 3: This is crazy. I wonder if he's like an original
Speaker 3: law and order, like lawyer from like the OG.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like how don't Dad is really is related?
Speaker 3: You know? Yeah, we got to figure this out.
Speaker 2: But so the confession does stay in, So now this
Speaker 2: is wild. We finally see a decoration. We finally see
Speaker 2: a decoration on a desk. It's weird. It's for things
Speaker 2: giving that decoration holiday, but on the desk. The next
Speaker 2: scene starts with a paper and cardboard like like tabletop turkey.
Speaker 2: It's a turkey decoration at the SVU precinct. I'm on
Speaker 2: cloud nine the fact, you know, I'm always dreaming of
Speaker 2: a spider web, a little wreath somewhere, an Easter egg,
Speaker 2: but we got a turkey. And so he walks in
Speaker 2: and is like, oh my god, Court was the best,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, that's.
Speaker 3: Not what I heard.
Speaker 2: And he's just raving about the defense attorney and he's
Speaker 2: just so taken with I wonder if they did fuck,
Speaker 2: like I mean, and we have a crush on Rollins
Speaker 2: right now, but I hope they like ended up fucking
Speaker 2: at least once. And Finn is like, why are you
Speaker 2: so happy for this like defense attorney, and he's like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: Barbara wants to try to find any evidence that hold
Speaker 2: a new Hector.
Speaker 3: I know, I said it.
Speaker 2: So basically the assignment is they need to find evidence
Speaker 2: that Hode a new Hector when he was alive. Finn says,
Speaker 2: we gave him everything we had. But Benson brings up
Speaker 2: the auxiliary cop and maybe we should go talk to him,
Speaker 2: maybe he has anything else, and Finn is like, didn't
Speaker 2: we think he did it? And Benson goes, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: but we didn't find that out, and Finn goes.
Speaker 3: Well, he's still nuts.
Speaker 2: He leaves messages for Rollins at three am, and Benson's like, listen,
Speaker 2: he knew Hector, he knew the neighborhood and he noticed
Speaker 2: the arson pattern, Go fucking talk to him. So Finn
Speaker 2: is like, he'll only talk to Rollins and Benson's like, okay,
Speaker 2: then have her call him and say that you know,
Speaker 2: you guys are going to.
Speaker 3: Go talk to him, So get to work.
Speaker 2: So we're back in front of the mural of Hector
Speaker 2: and the auxiliary cop. Ray Pashanski from Girls is there.
Speaker 2: He's in a police outfit and he's like, wow, I
Speaker 2: loved hearing from Rollins, and Chrisy and Finn are like Okay,
Speaker 2: well it's us and Rollins. Just remember, you know they're
Speaker 2: they're buttering him up there, like Rollin's remembered how much
Speaker 2: you cared about the case, and you know, we just
Speaker 2: wanted to get more info from you since you helped
Speaker 2: us find the pattern and you figured all this stuff out,
Speaker 2: but we can't bring it to court. So maybe you
Speaker 2: have other evidence that ties Hector to Hoda. He goes, no,
Speaker 2: but I'll say anything. You know the this is my
Speaker 2: last chance to get into the academy, so whatever you need.
Speaker 2: And Finn and Creasy look pissed at even the implication
Speaker 2: that he would need to.
Speaker 3: Like lie in court or anything. So we cut to
Speaker 3: spring time.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought it was spring, but obviously I saw
Speaker 2: the Turkey thing, so it is fall, but I feel
Speaker 2: like New York would be colder.
Speaker 3: But whatever. So they're in like cool.
Speaker 2: Mid temperature outfits walking near court, and holy shit, Beady
Speaker 2: Wong appears.
Speaker 3: He's wildly on the steps.
Speaker 2: He hated Oklahoma, so he left the Bureau and now
Speaker 2: he's consulting Beadi Wong runs off to work and Barbara goes, well,
Speaker 2: you'll see him later. Hassler hired him as her expert
Speaker 2: forensic psychiatrists. He's a hired gun now and Benson feels betrayed.
Speaker 2: Creasy's sitting at the precinct watching the confession over and
Speaker 2: over and Barba asks if there's anything new, and he goes, nah,
Speaker 2: but I have a care package for Rollin, so I'm
Speaker 2: going to deliver it to her since she's on bed rest.
Speaker 2: And Barbara is like, hold on, we need to go
Speaker 2: visit Hector's mom and prep her for her time on
Speaker 2: the s stand tomorrow and remind her that Benson will
Speaker 2: not be in the courtroom since she's going to have
Speaker 2: to testify later. So Cariese runs off, and now we're
Speaker 2: in court with the mom on the stand. She said, oh,
Speaker 2: this is sad. She always walked him to school two blocks,
Speaker 2: but then one day he goes, I'm old enough, I'm
Speaker 2: a big boy. I want to walk alone. And she
Speaker 2: watched him, she waved to him, and she never saw
Speaker 2: him again. And this has happened before an SVU and
Speaker 2: in some of our true crimes, and it really is
Speaker 2: so fucking sad.
Speaker 3: It's happening again today. Yeah, the first time. It's like,
Speaker 3: it's it's too sad.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because you know that the parents are
Speaker 2: going to blame themselves forever.
Speaker 3: And it's a bummer.
Speaker 2: So that walk meant that he did walk past Hodah's
Speaker 2: building when he managed those So, but now it's time
Speaker 2: for the defense and she is incredible. She's sympathetic to
Speaker 2: the mom. She goes, I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry you have to relive this. But did
Speaker 2: you ever see your son with mister Hodah? And she
Speaker 2: has to respond, no, have you ever seen Hodah before
Speaker 2: this arrest?
Speaker 3: She said no?
Speaker 2: Over the years, did the cops say they wanted to
Speaker 2: solve the crime and she goes, yes, Benson was very
Speaker 2: dedicated and wanted justice and it was important to her
Speaker 2: to help me, and Lisa goes, yeah, and the only
Speaker 2: way to help you is to find somebody to blame
Speaker 2: for your son's murder. And Barbara and Benson are you
Speaker 2: talking in an empty court room? And Benson's like, are
Speaker 2: you fucking kidding me? She's making me seem too conscientious.
Speaker 2: He's like, yep, And she implied, you're so desperate to
Speaker 2: get closure, you manufactured a suspect. And she's like, you
Speaker 2: let her get away with this he's like, well, I
Speaker 2: couldn't shoot her.
Speaker 3: Barbara's like, she is just doing her job and she's
Speaker 3: really good at it. And she's like, you left me
Speaker 3: out to dry. And he's like, Okay, chill the fuck out.
Speaker 3: You're up after lunch, let's prep. She's pissed. She goes,
Speaker 3: no thanks.
Speaker 2: I've testified a few hundred times, so I think I'll
Speaker 2: be fine. She is living, and he says, I need
Speaker 2: you to sit your ass down and work with me.
Speaker 2: She finally agrees and they start to work. So now
Speaker 2: we're in court and we're watching the confession. He admits
Speaker 2: to snapping the neck and also putting the boy under
Speaker 2: the concrete. She's like, he knew his rights. He said
Speaker 2: it found him because he was connected to the fresh
Speaker 2: concrete poor and to the timing of the disappearance, and
Speaker 2: when we figured it all out, then we realized he
Speaker 2: was a pedophile too. And he's tweaking on the defense
Speaker 2: bench like erratic. Blink's moving around. He's very shifty. And
Speaker 2: now it's Lisa's turn and she's like, after he disappeared,
Speaker 2: what did the did the police conclude? Benson explains that
Speaker 2: they thought the dad took him in a custody battle,
Speaker 2: but she always disagreed with the NYPD. And Lisa's like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, and it seems like you were right and
Speaker 2: Benson perfect answer. She goes unfortunately yes. She goes, so
Speaker 2: you were motivated to prove that you were right, and
Speaker 2: she sighs and goes, well, not motivated enough.
Speaker 3: It took me almost a decade.
Speaker 2: And she goes and finally you had hodap and she goes, yes,
Speaker 2: and he confessed on the video, and she goes, I'm
Speaker 2: interested in what didn't make it to the video. You
Speaker 2: interrogated him for over six hours before turning on the camera,
Speaker 2: So what happened there? And she goes nothing, that's against
Speaker 2: police procedure. She questions her about lying and stuff in
Speaker 2: those six hours, and she's like, excuse me. The Supreme
Speaker 2: Court decided that cops are allowed to make misrepresentations and
Speaker 2: she goes, you mean lie. She goes yes, And so
Speaker 2: she goes, so after lying about non existent witnesses, didn't
Speaker 2: you tell him that nobody likes to Chomo in state prison?
Speaker 2: And she's like, yeah, there was a sense of urgency.
Speaker 2: He had another child. And the judge is like, baby,
Speaker 2: you are flirting with causing a mistrial. And I love
Speaker 2: that he used the word flirting. I know he is.
Speaker 1: I love Horowitz. He's great, But like, this is the
Speaker 1: problem with the whole episode. Why would they toss out Wyatt?
Speaker 1: Like he literally had a boy in a basement and
Speaker 1: that's like what led them to like the rest of this,
Speaker 1: So like why would this be disconnected? But I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure our lawyer girls will tell us, but like,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't make sense to me that he's like
Speaker 1: can't talk about the other kiddie kidnapped because the kid
Speaker 1: won't testify. But it's like we found him because of
Speaker 1: his information.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, he led us to the correct basement.
Speaker 3: Is not evidence enough? Right? Can't just be like he
Speaker 3: could be in this basement, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's kids down there, Like you know, that's not like, wow,
Speaker 1: it worked out. So it's very strange to me, but
Speaker 1: you know whatever. They have to make a television show work,
Speaker 1: so I understand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2: So Lisa's like, so, what's a chomo and Benson has
Speaker 2: to say child molester. And the question then is proposed,
Speaker 2: are they assaulted in prison?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, so you lied about evidence, and you threaten to
Speaker 2: label him a chomo, and you promised that you would
Speaker 2: advertise the book that belief to ensure that he would
Speaker 2: be assaulted in prison. And then and only then did
Speaker 2: he confess. Benson says he confessed because he was guilty.
Speaker 2: Quick cut to Hoda on the stand. He's fully crying,
Speaker 2: great performance, spitting red, pointing finger, very passionate. I confess
Speaker 2: because she said she was gonna get me killed. Benson
Speaker 2: is watching him, rolling her eyes and he's crying. He's sniffling.
Speaker 2: Benson is shaking her head. He believed they were framing
Speaker 2: him and they would do whatever they wanted to him.
Speaker 2: Finn is nodding his head to like, fuck this motherfucker.
Speaker 2: He then says he never saw that little boy, notott
Speaker 2: once in his life, and no clue why he was
Speaker 2: found in the building, but a lot of unsavory characters
Speaker 2: did live in the building. Careasy's writing something down and
Speaker 2: shows Barbara and basically what Crisy wrote was little Boys
Speaker 2: question mark. Barba nods, I'm actually lost because I rewounded
Speaker 2: a few times, and Hoda on the stand goes.
Speaker 3: That little boy so the Little Boys is like.
Speaker 2: I don't know how It gave him the clue because
Speaker 2: maybe if it was just that one, it'd be like
Speaker 2: the little boy, I don't get this.
Speaker 3: I thought maybe you would. No, I don't think I do.
Speaker 2: But because I was telling someone about our connections thing,
Speaker 2: and I was saying, how like sometimes the first connection
Speaker 2: you get. This is the New York Times game. If
Speaker 2: you guys play word ole Connections is amazing. It's sixteen
Speaker 2: words and you group them in four groups of four
Speaker 2: and you have to figure out the groupings and they
Speaker 2: try to trick you, but you always get the grammar
Speaker 2: ones or like the proposition or like past ten, like
Speaker 2: you always get the word ones. And those are always
Speaker 2: the ones that are last for me, where I don't
Speaker 2: even see how they connect and I just press them
Speaker 2: and then I find out. So I thought maybe you
Speaker 2: would know this because it's like the tenses and the words.
Speaker 3: I'm like, maybe she'll put this together. No, I don't
Speaker 3: think I'm there because of it.
Speaker 2: Well, so yesterday's one of the answers was majong tiles.
Speaker 2: That was definitely my fourth and final.
Speaker 3: I was like, I was like, I would have never
Speaker 3: gotten these would my whole life. That's my last.
Speaker 2: So if any of you figure out how careesy maybe
Speaker 2: fordam Law is really working on him.
Speaker 3: But if any of you.
Speaker 2: Understand why him saying that little boy equate it to
Speaker 2: little boys question mark, I guess it implies.
Speaker 3: There's more than one little boy. I just I didn't
Speaker 3: really catch that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because then later Olivia says, we think he
Speaker 1: might be responsible for the death of two other kids
Speaker 1: because like he hangs out at playgrounds, and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably it.
Speaker 3: Like the plural yeah, but he said that little boy.
Speaker 3: Oh I don't know that because I kept rewinding.
Speaker 2: But I guess if it was just one boy, you
Speaker 2: would maybe just say the little boy.
Speaker 3: Is that it? I know that's too, that's not bad,
Speaker 3: but it's not that feels like a walk. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: This is weird because Barbara at the end, like we'll
Speaker 2: get to it, was like so impressed that crazy put
Speaker 2: this together. But anyway, so Barbara has this little clue
Speaker 2: now and then this is my favorite. It's when he
Speaker 2: starts talking while he's still sitting so you know, he's
Speaker 2: feeling confident. So he's sitting there going did you order
Speaker 2: the concrete or did the drug? Addicts that lived in
Speaker 2: the building, and he goes, I did, and he goes,
Speaker 2: so because of a fire from two hundred yards away
Speaker 2: caused water to flow uphill.
Speaker 3: He's like, I don't remember we needed it. I ordered it.
Speaker 2: He goes, oh, you don't remember that, but then you
Speaker 2: remember this, and he plays the confession and we see
Speaker 2: Hodah on the confession say he had a backpack. He
Speaker 2: started talking to me, he was bugging me. So Barba
Speaker 2: questions him, so you remembered the backpack. Did you put
Speaker 2: it in the ground when you buried him? He goes no,
Speaker 2: he says nothing to remember you were attracted to him. No,
Speaker 2: he denies being attracted to children. And Barba's like, why
Speaker 2: were you found at a child's playground years after Hector's
Speaker 2: murder And he says it's all lies. So then you know,
Speaker 2: he brings out Exhibit six A and n B and
Speaker 2: their police reports. So basically he was seen at parks,
Speaker 2: and Hodus like, I just like parks, so do I,
Speaker 2: but I don't stare at little boys. And he's like,
Speaker 2: you're just like her. You're gonna put me, you know,
Speaker 2: you're gonna do all these lies. You're gonna spread all
Speaker 2: these lies. He goes, well, what lie you hang out
Speaker 2: at playgrounds? A little boy was found dead in the
Speaker 2: bottom of your building. You said you killed him. He said,
Speaker 2: I told you Why I said that, And it's like,
Speaker 2: because you were afraid of being hurt in prison or
Speaker 2: scared hearing the truth about you. He says, I'm not
Speaker 2: scared of anything. I never touched him down there. So
Speaker 2: then Barba's like, then, where did you touch him? There's
Speaker 2: a stutter, there's tense music. He just stares off. So
Speaker 2: now we're in the hallway and Creasy's jazzed. He's like,
Speaker 2: you crushed it. You fucking cure the boy. And Barbara's like,
Speaker 2: thanks for that. Little boys, tell who? And then Lisa
Speaker 2: sees them and goes, are you gloating? And Barbara smirks
Speaker 2: a little and goes guilty. Then she says nothing makes
Speaker 2: me happier than a member of the patriarchy, right before
Speaker 2: he falls. Oh God, I love her. I don't know
Speaker 2: why she hasn't come back more. Maybe they can't afford her,
Speaker 2: Like what's going on?
Speaker 3: I want more?
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like, I mean she just literally
Speaker 1: does book like all the time, this woman, So maybe
Speaker 1: they just can't get her.
Speaker 2: So then Barba's retort is I seem to be on
Speaker 2: my feet. He says, your client made quite an impression
Speaker 2: on the jury, and she goes, so did you thank you?
Speaker 3: Walks off. The boys are like huh, what could that mean?
Speaker 2: So now we have Huang on the stand and he's
Speaker 2: playing for the defense, and he says that Hodo was
Speaker 2: abused physically by an alcoholic father. He never resolved that
Speaker 2: stuff and that's why he lied and admitted to thing
Speaker 2: because his da like he had to do anything his
Speaker 2: dad said to avoid getting beatings. So he buckles to
Speaker 2: authority to avoid violence. And so duh. The Benson threat
Speaker 2: to be hurt in jail, especially to someone who needs
Speaker 2: to appear hyper masculine, would be a huge issue. So again,
Speaker 2: to avoid being beaten, he would admit to touching a
Speaker 2: child he never met. Barba objects and it is overruled,
Speaker 2: so Huang has to answer. He goes, yes, mister Hodam
Speaker 2: might have said anything. Benson is so fuck im peeved.
Speaker 2: So now Huang walks into the elevator and right before
Speaker 2: it closes, we get a hand in there and she
Speaker 2: pushes the door open and says Huang, she is pissed.
Speaker 2: What the hell are you doing up there for that man?
Speaker 2: We used to put people like that away. You know
Speaker 2: what he did to Hector and Wyatt? And he says
Speaker 2: to Wyatt, yes, but to Hector, I don't know. She's like,
Speaker 2: you think I coursed him, that's what you think? How
Speaker 2: long have we known each other? And he's like, even
Speaker 2: if it wasn't your intent, he could have given in
Speaker 2: because of it, and she's like, he believed it because
Speaker 2: he did it. And the elevator doors open. He says,
Speaker 2: I don't know that, and neither do you. People file
Speaker 2: in and to me, I'm like, how.
Speaker 3: Big is this courthouse?
Speaker 2: How tall is this I've seen the buildings like this
Speaker 2: elevator ride is very.
Speaker 3: Long, but also it's a public building. I'm sure the
Speaker 3: elevator fucking sucks.
Speaker 2: Also, the last hotel we were in, that elevator was
Speaker 2: so fucking slow, that Pittsburgh elevator, really and I was like,
Speaker 2: fair floors, it was so slow. So then they both
Speaker 2: are mad and they stare straight forward. So now we're
Speaker 2: watching the news with the girls auxiliary cop on the
Speaker 2: news and while he's on the stand watching it as well,
Speaker 2: and Lisa is gonna eat him for dinner. So her
Speaker 2: glasses are on and she's like, so you found his
Speaker 2: lunch box? Yes, I was, and she cuts them off.
Speaker 2: Hundreds of people were looking and you found it. He's like,
Speaker 2: I have good eyes. And she's like, or did you
Speaker 2: find it because you knew exactly where to look, and
Speaker 2: she's like, you often talked to Hector.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: He says he was friendly with all the kids, and
Speaker 2: she pushed, is how friendly? And he resents these accusations
Speaker 2: and she's like, yeah, I'm sure you do. Did you
Speaker 2: resent it when much interrogated you about the case And
Speaker 2: he's like, no, I was just helping the case and
Speaker 2: she's like, you were a suspect. He does not believe that,
Speaker 2: and he goes, munch is a conspiracy theory nut. His
Speaker 2: own captain apologized to me. The whole squad apologized to me,
Speaker 2: and she goes, you mean the squad who found pictures
Speaker 2: of Hector all over your attic and defense Exhibit thirteen
Speaker 2: c is photos of Lomiton's addict. Tense music plays and
Speaker 2: the people of the jury like, lean in. They're very
Speaker 2: into these photos. So this man looks like a man obsessed.
Speaker 2: He says, I was doing research. She's like, for thirteen years,
Speaker 2: you visited the mom you went to the memorials. How
Speaker 2: long have you been taking antipsychotic drugs? And that's an
Speaker 2: objection for Barbara, and it is sustained. Finally he gets
Speaker 2: a little win, and then he should have stayed quiet,
Speaker 2: but instead he says, I just care about children, and
Speaker 2: even when no one else does, question marks, so you
Speaker 2: have a special relationship with children. He goes not like that,
Speaker 2: and Benson Shakespeare's head like, oh my god. And Lisa
Speaker 2: leans in and asked, did you murder Hector Rodriguez. He yells,
Speaker 2: there is the guy who did it and points to Hoda.
Speaker 2: The judge says, answer the question. He says, I will
Speaker 2: not dignify that question with the response. I did not
Speaker 2: know that you can do that while you're in the box, like.
Speaker 3: Not answer a question.
Speaker 1: Yeah you can't, that's I mean, the judge can can
Speaker 1: find you in contempt. But Lisa says, well, I'm not
Speaker 1: hearing a no, and he doesn't say no, So to me,
Speaker 1: it's like maybe he cares enough no because he was
Speaker 1: willing to lie on the stand. So yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know why he didn't just say no, so she walks
Speaker 1: to go sit down.
Speaker 3: Damn.
Speaker 2: But now it's Barbara closing time. It's a really like
Speaker 2: kind of it's not even that sexy or cool. He
Speaker 2: all he says is only one logical conclusion. He did it,
Speaker 2: and he said he did it, and he's guilty, thank you.
Speaker 2: So that concludes closing arguments. We don't get to see
Speaker 2: Lisa tap dance all over the jury and the jury
Speaker 2: needs to go deliberate, and the judge also reminds the
Speaker 2: jury he is innocent until proven guilty, and they have
Speaker 2: to decide if the people have proven him guilty beyond
Speaker 2: a reasonable doubt, and that with that in mind, go
Speaker 2: at it and God's speed. Hector's mom does seem worried.
Speaker 2: Jury day two, they're still chatting and the press is
Speaker 2: asking lista questions on the courtroom steps, like why are.
Speaker 3: They grappling so long? Why is it taking so long?
Speaker 2: And it's like two days for a murder trial is fine,
Speaker 2: Like that does not seem excessive. It seems fine to
Speaker 2: be able to discuss for two days if someone's gonna
Speaker 2: go to jail for fucking murder. She's like, the people's
Speaker 2: case is weak, and fuck them. Barbara and Creasy are
Speaker 2: walking like fuck her. She keeps making her case and
Speaker 2: then Barba's like, well, you know, the jurors aren't supposed
Speaker 2: to be watching the news or Creesy said that I
Speaker 2: truly don't remember. Hector's mom is on the street crying
Speaker 2: and Lisa's talking, and so the mom just runs up
Speaker 2: right to the media and goes, why don't you help
Speaker 2: people who deserve it? And she's crying. Cariesy has to
Speaker 2: take her away. The reporter tries to chase the crying woman,
Speaker 2: but will settle for Barbara, who says he is confident
Speaker 2: in his case and the common sense of the jurors. Okay,
Speaker 2: so they're all at the office. It's been five days
Speaker 2: and nothing. Cariese isn't studying, but he has been doing
Speaker 2: some digging on the jurors social media and the four
Speaker 2: woman Sharon Day has been posting for months about how
Speaker 2: she's excited for a big family reunion for Thanksgiving. But
Speaker 2: they're all stuck and probably dying to get out of there.
Speaker 2: So Amanda calls for Finn to come to the hospital,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure Criesy's.
Speaker 3: Like, well, why didn't she call me? What the fuck?
Speaker 2: But now the jury is ready, so right as Finn
Speaker 2: goes to visit Rollin's in the hospital and I think
Speaker 2: this is the time when Kelly Gettish is actually pregnant
Speaker 2: and probably needed some time off.
Speaker 3: So Cariese gets a call.
Speaker 2: The jury's back and they're going to court on Sunday,
Speaker 2: November twenty second, Sunday. So they're all meeting up because
Speaker 2: one of the jurors has a question and the fore
Speaker 2: woman explains that, and a dude gets up and is like, no, actually,
Speaker 2: a few of us have questions, and it's like, clearly
Speaker 2: it's just you that's causing problems, but he wants to
Speaker 2: be reminded of the rules to decide if a confession
Speaker 2: is voluntary or not. The judge says it is not
Speaker 2: voluntary if it is obtained by use or threat of
Speaker 2: physical violence or undue pressure, and what the cops said
Speaker 2: and their treatment and time of questioning, so that doesn't
Speaker 2: sound very good. The crew is worried in the hallways.
Speaker 2: Benson's like, fuck, I keep going over it in my head,
Speaker 2: and Barbe gooes, listen, another child was kidnapped and you
Speaker 2: needed to do what you needed to do to save him.
Speaker 2: Benson has a call. It's Finn. Something's up with Amanda.
Speaker 2: Her heart rate has slowed up. Excuse me, shouldn't it
Speaker 2: be down? How does something slow up?
Speaker 1: Who said it was that careesy?
Speaker 3: No it was Finn. Oh yeah, that is weird.
Speaker 2: Finn goes her heart rate slowed up, So did it
Speaker 2: slow down or go up?
Speaker 3: Like? You can't slow up? There's no fucking way.
Speaker 2: So for me, I feel like that's an iced tea
Speaker 2: moment that they just left in because he refused to
Speaker 2: do another take.
Speaker 3: But that's just.
Speaker 2: Also, lately the airports have been in douev On crustables,
Speaker 2: which is one of my favorite airport snacks. I like
Speaker 2: like iced tea, but I always get the grape and
Speaker 2: I finally got the strawberry jelly and no, never inferior.
Speaker 2: Yeah it really is. Thank you for agreeing. Wait, do
Speaker 2: you like peanut butter and jelly or not?
Speaker 3: Really? I love it.
Speaker 1: I make it every I also make it every single
Speaker 1: day for my children, so you know it's lost a
Speaker 1: little bit of its luster.
Speaker 3: But I do love Phoebe and Jay. Wait, they can
Speaker 3: bring peanut butter to school.
Speaker 1: Oscar can, Rosie can? So what I do is I
Speaker 1: put jelly on one piece of bread. I dig another
Speaker 1: piece of bread, and I put peanut butter on half
Speaker 1: and almond butter on the other half.
Speaker 2: Slap it together, cut it in half. How do you remember?
Speaker 2: You never fuck it up?
Speaker 1: I like taste because I don't want to send Rosy
Speaker 1: by accident and like have her like I always check.
Speaker 3: All right. So we're at the hospital. Not good. Amanda's
Speaker 3: on a monitor. We're watching her.
Speaker 2: Amanda's there full, you know, belly bum, bad, breathing.
Speaker 3: Finn is gonna stay with her.
Speaker 2: So now is running at Barbara outside the court and
Speaker 2: he's like, listen, I've been trying to reach you all day.
Speaker 2: I left messages and Barbara goes, I have nothing to
Speaker 2: talk to you about.
Speaker 3: The case went to jury. He's like, exactly one of
Speaker 3: the jurors, jur number four, Thomas Johnson. He lied.
Speaker 2: Barbara goes, how do you know that? He's like, I
Speaker 2: gave the court clerk fifty dollars. LL, you're never going
Speaker 2: to be brought up the ranks, bro. So this guy,
Speaker 2: jural number four, was arrested in Maryland for assault last year.
Speaker 2: The chargers were dropped, but he lost his job. He
Speaker 2: went to his house in his uniform and talked to
Speaker 2: his sister and we figured out that he doesn't like cops.
Speaker 2: And Barbara is like, you committed bribery, impersonated a real
Speaker 2: officer and then tampered with the juror. And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: now he's in there poisoning the other jury. And Barba's like,
Speaker 2: then it would be then it would lead to a mistrial.
Speaker 2: So we don't really have any fucking options. And he's like,
Speaker 2: but you'll tell the NYPD what I've done, and he goes, oh,
Speaker 2: you can count on it. I mean, this guy is
Speaker 2: so bonkers.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the jury back and they want another meeting,
Speaker 2: and the judge is like, what else do you want
Speaker 2: to hear back?
Speaker 3: And she goes again, not me, another person here.
Speaker 1: I love how she's just like it isn't.
Speaker 2: Me, Like she's the funny one of us wants to
Speaker 2: hear Lieutenant Benson's testimony, and the defendants and the psychiatrists
Speaker 2: and the judges like all of it. And the four
Speaker 2: women is like, I don't know what good it will do.
Speaker 2: And the man stands up and says, I am not
Speaker 2: the only one who would benefit from this. Ha She says, listen,
Speaker 2: every juror has the right. The court reporter will begin,
Speaker 2: and so then she like.
Speaker 3: You see the court reporter grab thick ass stacks of papers,
Speaker 3: and I just would be so fucking annoyed.
Speaker 2: I'm glad people are taking their civic duty this seriously,
Speaker 2: but like I.
Speaker 3: Would be best.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I wonder if the court reporter is like
Speaker 2: my final shot, yay, I get to read, you know.
Speaker 3: Or if she's like also annoyed.
Speaker 2: So right, then Lisa whispers to Barba, we need to talk.
Speaker 2: So it's me time, and she goes, listen, we both
Speaker 2: had our phone. It's time to end this. He goes,
Speaker 2: it's almost Thanksgiving. They'll let out soon. She goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but we don't know how it will go, and then
Speaker 2: ask careesy if like then she goes, does Carisy need
Speaker 2: to be here? And it's like you wanted to fuck
Speaker 2: him two hours ago, and now like you don't, Like
Speaker 2: I don't. It's just weird because up top she's like,
Speaker 2: I Candy, and now she's like, get him the fuck
Speaker 2: out of this room, which means his personality has been
Speaker 2: so grading she does not want to fuck him anymore.
Speaker 2: So Barbara goes listen, he needs to be here to chaperone, okay,
Speaker 2: and so she goes, fine, let's just do a plea deal.
Speaker 2: Barbara goes, well, he agreed to one before and then
Speaker 2: took it back. She goes, I know, but give us
Speaker 2: a good plea criminally negligent Homicidechrisy goes, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: Barbara shushes him. So, now we figure out how much
Speaker 2: time and it's eight years. So now Barbara is with
Speaker 2: miss Rodriguez and Benson and basically he's gonna get eight years,
Speaker 2: and they want to say no to this, and Barbara goes,
Speaker 2: come on, let's just say yes. So they all argue
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, why would you bring us here? If
Speaker 2: you will he decided it, and he's like, I just
Speaker 2: want to make you understand. So of course, now he's
Speaker 2: going to speak Spanish to convince her and really connect.
Speaker 2: She's really sad, but she's okay with it. She is
Speaker 2: okay with it. I mean, eight years is not nothing.
Speaker 2: It's obviously not enough, but like some sort of closure.
Speaker 2: So now the lawyers, this scene is so good. So
Speaker 2: now the lawyers go talk to the judge and they're like, okay.
Speaker 2: So he's like, okay, tell me about this deal. But
Speaker 2: right at the moment before they tell the judge the deal,
Speaker 2: it's the jury again and they're deadlocked. So then Barbara goes, well,
Speaker 2: that's fine, we have a deal, and she goes, Dewey
Speaker 2: shouldn't should have said yes.
Speaker 3: Earlier deals off. Fuck, she's good.
Speaker 2: So Barbara's panics wearing for and Hoda's wearing white and
Speaker 2: looks fucked up.
Speaker 3: Well, it just sucks that the note came in.
Speaker 2: At that time, like, oh my god. So Hoda's wearing
Speaker 2: white and looks fucked up. He just looks out of it.
Speaker 2: And then the judge is talking like, listen, if this
Speaker 2: is about the upcoming holiday, you have a duty. You
Speaker 2: cannot just like put together something. She goes, it's not that.
Speaker 2: People are getting angry and it's going very tense. They
Speaker 2: say they really tried and there isn't any point. So
Speaker 2: he says, very well, if that's where you are, I
Speaker 2: have to declare a mistrial. He'll stay in remand before
Speaker 2: the state decides what they're going to do, Benson apologizes
Speaker 2: to miss Rodriguez, Lisa and Hoda hug and unfortunately I
Speaker 2: do keep thinking about Hoda from the Today Show and
Speaker 2: not Tom Sizemore, and I keep imagining her in this show,
Speaker 2: and I keep spelling it like her name do. Barbara
Speaker 2: makes eye contact with the mom and you know he
Speaker 2: has a taste of vengeance.
Speaker 3: That can see it.
Speaker 2: Benson explains to the mom the options we can retry
Speaker 2: Hoda and do this all over again, and she's like,
Speaker 2: would it turn out any different? And then the fore
Speaker 2: women in another juror walk up to her and they
Speaker 2: just say, we want to say how sorry we are.
Speaker 2: We all are so sorry, and at least most of us.
Speaker 2: And the other woman goes that man was evil. It
Speaker 2: was clear as day and you are very brave. Benson
Speaker 2: walks up to Careese and Barba for the scoop. One
Speaker 2: jer basically thought lo Matin was guilty, and then two
Speaker 2: jur were worried that the confession was coursed.
Speaker 3: So what do they do now?
Speaker 2: For tonight, Miss Rodriguez and the jurors are going to
Speaker 2: light some candles for Hector and do a memorial. She thinks, Barbara,
Speaker 2: she knows how hard he tried. Carisy's going to go
Speaker 2: to the hospital to meet up with Finn and Rollins
Speaker 2: and Barbara wants to go to the memorial with the Jurs,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, okay, I'll meet you there. Somber music plays.
Speaker 2: We're at the mural once again. Lomitsen is there a
Speaker 2: lot of candles. The mom cries, everyone is sad. Benson
Speaker 2: pulls up with Wyatt's mom. Yes, bitch, we're gonna get
Speaker 2: his ass. So, mom, mom, you know all the moms
Speaker 2: were together. She says, I'm so sorry, and she cries.
Speaker 2: Hector's mom cries and goes, He's gonna get away with it,
Speaker 2: and Wyatt's mom says, no, he won't.
Speaker 3: So basically she spoke to her ex.
Speaker 2: And Wyatt and they're all gonna help and they're going
Speaker 2: to cooperate and they're going to go to trial. And
Speaker 2: the mom's hug. Benson and Barba stare at each other.
Speaker 2: I actually tear it up here. It really kind of
Speaker 2: got me. So Rollins is in the hospital, Caresey's still there.
Speaker 2: The sun is fully up, Benson rolls in. The contractions
Speaker 2: are happening. It hurts like hell, Like is this triggering
Speaker 2: when you watch birthing scenes or.
Speaker 1: Like what no, I mean honestly, because like it does
Speaker 1: really hurt. But like she played this really well because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this isn't normal, Like her pain
Speaker 1: seems different than it's. It's hard to say, like it
Speaker 1: seems like a different kind of pain, like you're you're
Speaker 1: definitely like when you're giving birth, you're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is horrible and you're but you're not.
Speaker 3: Like you scream when you push a little bit.
Speaker 1: But my doctor was like, you have to stop screaming.
Speaker 1: And I was like, gotcha, and I would just look.
Speaker 1: My doctor was like, but she's right, Like she's like
Speaker 1: you're just gonna hurt your voice and like you don't
Speaker 1: need to be screaming like that.
Speaker 3: There are ways.
Speaker 1: She basically was like, you can basically kind of like
Speaker 1: grunt instead of screaming, and she was right, Like she
Speaker 1: was right. I did figure out a different way to
Speaker 1: like get out my pain that wasn't like, ah, you know,
Speaker 1: like screaming, and I think it made it better for
Speaker 1: everybody in the room. And but with Rollin's like I
Speaker 1: was watching it being like, Wow, this is a good
Speaker 1: acting because this really feels different, like something is wrong,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: Incredible acting.
Speaker 2: Gettish really turned like this was amazing, But yeah, Kreishi
Speaker 2: is like pushing her and basically she's it's too late
Speaker 2: for an epidural. She's pushing. I hate watching this. She's screaming.
Speaker 2: She says, it's not a contraction. Kara's right, it's my back.
Speaker 2: It's my back. She starts crying. The monitor's going crazy.
Speaker 2: They're getting a doctor in there. There's blood, doctor Sloane.
Speaker 2: They scream, she's hemorrhaging the fetus. Heart rates going down,
Speaker 2: not not fasting down, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: I just love icedy. Yeah, the doctor kicks everyone out,
Speaker 2: Rollins is worried and crying, and then the credits and
Speaker 2: we all know that everything ends up fine. The babies
Speaker 2: are born. So it's like a cliffinger if you watch
Speaker 2: it live, but like not really and that's dick Wolf
Speaker 2: baby And uh oh, I think we're about to get
Speaker 2: a sad case, Cara.
Speaker 1: Yeah, get ready to get sad. My favorite catchphrase of
Speaker 1: this podcast will be right back after a few messages
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Okay, so we are back. And I
Speaker 1: think I mentioned this last week that the true crime
Speaker 1: of you know, Hector's case is based it feels very
Speaker 1: obviously on Aton Pats, who was this was a huge
Speaker 1: case in New York City and actually nationally. On May
Speaker 1: twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine, sadly, six year old little
Speaker 1: Aton left his apartment in Soho by himself for the
Speaker 1: first time, just like in Lost Traveler episode that we
Speaker 1: did like and when Lebe Kletzky, who that episode is
Speaker 1: based on, when he disappeared. A lot of people were
Speaker 1: drawing parallels to these two things. That such a short
Speaker 1: walk kids first time walking to school by himself? How
Speaker 1: old can you let kids walk alone in New York?
Speaker 1: And did they just run into the wrong person at
Speaker 1: the wrong time both of them? Obviously the answer is yes,
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I just six seems so young
Speaker 1: to let a little kid go And apparently though the
Speaker 1: parents agonized over the decision to let him go alone,
Speaker 1: but he said other kids were allowed to do it,
Speaker 1: why couldn't he, So you know, when you're begging saying, oh,
Speaker 1: all my friends are doing it.
Speaker 2: But it's also interesting that, like the New York City
Speaker 2: is a part of it because I grew up in
Speaker 2: like a quaint suburb, I would say, and I remember
Speaker 2: first grade, like I was allowed to go around the
Speaker 2: block or like walk to it was a straight shot
Speaker 2: to school.
Speaker 3: It was like five olus straight. I mean I took
Speaker 3: the bus and yeah, but like it is like I
Speaker 3: could go to the park in elementary school. I feel well.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like a couple episodes ago we did
Speaker 1: that Little Beauty Queen that was like Outsider my rando.
Speaker 1: You know, like people, anything can happen, like it is
Speaker 1: like terrible, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh you're right, you're right. How do you decide
Speaker 2: as a parent what's right what's not? Because then I
Speaker 2: think I've talked about it, but I had like one
Speaker 2: boy neighbor that his mom wouldn't even let him go
Speaker 2: around the block. He truly had to go back and
Speaker 2: forth like in our townhouse thing. And that was a
Speaker 2: little much too, Like we all got to go around
Speaker 2: the block.
Speaker 3: And he couldn't. Yeah, and we thought it was too strict,
Speaker 3: But like, how do you do it? How do people
Speaker 3: decide what to do? I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I follow accounts that are like never let your kid
Speaker 1: do a sleepover, and I'm like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 3: How else because of my less station or what.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you never know who's at other people's houses.
Speaker 1: You never know, like are you checking to see who
Speaker 1: has a gun? Like I don't know, you know, Like
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of crazy shit we have to constantly
Speaker 1: be worried about as parents. It's such a delightful journey.
Speaker 1: So he's he was only supposed to walk two blocks,
Speaker 1: Like this is all happening, Like I think he lives
Speaker 1: on Prince Street. He just has to walk to West Broadway.
Speaker 1: I know this exact area. My aunt and uncle used
Speaker 1: to live down there, Like I know exactly where they are.
Speaker 3: Also, soho is so popular?
Speaker 1: Like I mean, who knows what it was like in
Speaker 1: seventy nine, but it's it's a busy area. So anyway,
Speaker 1: he never made it to the bus. He was supposed
Speaker 1: to walk two blocks to get on the school bus.
Speaker 1: He never made it. He when he vanished, he was
Speaker 1: wearing a black hat that read future Flight Captain, a
Speaker 1: little blue corduroy jacket, jeans, and blue sneakers with Florestan stripes.
Speaker 3: Here's what pisses me off.
Speaker 1: At school, his teacher noticed he was gone, but for
Speaker 1: some reason didn't tell anyone.
Speaker 3: So no one knows.
Speaker 1: He's missing until three point thirty, when he doesn't come
Speaker 1: home from school. We don't get to the bottom of this,
Speaker 1: but it pisses me off. So at first they you know,
Speaker 1: the family were suspects at the beginning, as usual, but
Speaker 1: they ruled them out pretty quickly, and then that night
Speaker 1: started the search. On May twenty fifth, like everybody there
Speaker 1: was like one hundred police officers, bloodhounds, everyone's looking for
Speaker 1: this kid.
Speaker 3: For weeks.
Speaker 1: They're canvassing missing posters, but there were barely any leads,
Speaker 1: and so it really was like the kid just vanished
Speaker 1: in a two block walk. His dad was named Stanley
Speaker 1: Pats and he was a professional photographer, so he had
Speaker 1: so many beautiful photos of his son, and I think
Speaker 1: because of that, the kid was just so post child
Speaker 1: for missing kids, Like just these gorgeous pictures of this
Speaker 1: little blonde hair, bowl cut, sweet kid with a big smile,
Speaker 1: and so those were all over walls, those were on time,
Speaker 1: they were projected in Times Square, and he was one
Speaker 1: of the first faces on the milk carton. So like
Speaker 1: his disappearance, really, why don't they do that anymore?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, because I don't I really don't know.
Speaker 3: I really don't wonder. That's a great question.
Speaker 1: But this his disappearance like really ignited a lot of
Speaker 1: national conversation about missing kids and about kidnapping. And like
Speaker 1: I was born like shortly after this or a little
Speaker 1: bit after this, and like it really was a huge
Speaker 1: thing growing up, like kidnapping, like don't talk to strangers,
Speaker 1: stranger danger, Like don't do this, don't do that, Like
Speaker 1: anyone could kidnap you at any moment.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 2: We talk about this before, but the seventies just seemed
Speaker 2: like a heyday for crime. Yeah, like you could kidnap anyone,
Speaker 2: and people weren't locking their door, they would let you in.
Speaker 2: You know, it was yeh, free for all. So I
Speaker 2: feel the eighties went the other way where it was
Speaker 2: just like no one walk outside, everyone's gonna be kidnapped.
Speaker 3: Totally, totally.
Speaker 1: And but and it's interesting to me just because it's
Speaker 1: like I think, what we realize now looking back, it's
Speaker 1: like so much more horrific shit happens like in people's
Speaker 1: homes or like like in their communities. Then even though
Speaker 1: this happens and it's horrific, like random street snatchings are
Speaker 1: not as common as like the other kinds of like
Speaker 1: abuse that I know, But a people's noses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I get being a parent. If I was,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't never I would be the neighbor that I
Speaker 2: hated as a kid and be like, you're not going
Speaker 2: around the block like I really, I really don't know
Speaker 2: how people or even like me thinking about things I
Speaker 2: did in high school.
Speaker 3: Like I was on the back of a motorcycle.
Speaker 2: I was like, don't let your kids leave anything, Like
Speaker 2: it's just it is so scared because like you said,
Speaker 2: it's not. But then the one time you let your
Speaker 2: kid walk and then they're gone forever.
Speaker 1: Like I know exactly. It's like wild, it's horrible. It
Speaker 1: is horrible.
Speaker 2: The animal can it right give birth and swim away,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, fertilize the eggs and be
Speaker 2: an octopus and you're on your own, bitch, Like that
Speaker 2: seems like you way to do it. Shark life, Yeah,
Speaker 2: shark life. Baby having to take care of the kid,
Speaker 2: I just I get it, you know.
Speaker 1: I just am still at the phase where I have
Speaker 1: to be so close to my kids so they don't
Speaker 1: like just like fall and crack their heads open. They're
Speaker 1: just so still little and like always getting into trouble,
Speaker 1: so going doing anything independently is not really for them
Speaker 1: right now, but it is.
Speaker 3: Who knows what I'll do anyway.
Speaker 2: If baby Oscar was just walking down the Joy to
Speaker 2: get some he's.
Speaker 3: Like park park.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen eighty three, on May twenty fifth, we
Speaker 1: still haven't found him, and that's the anniversary of his disappearance.
Speaker 1: Four years that was designated National Missing Children's Day in
Speaker 1: the US by Reagan, and it started this missing children
Speaker 1: like movement, Like there was new legislation, new methods for
Speaker 1: finding kids. There was a woman who grew up in
Speaker 1: New York City, like you said, kind of off the leash,
Speaker 1: just like playing in the Central Park until nightfall and
Speaker 1: then just walking home. And she told New York Magazine
Speaker 1: in an interview it all changed after Aton, like we
Speaker 1: all looked at each other and said, well, that world
Speaker 1: is gone. So I think there just was a time,
Speaker 1: you know, back where kids were more free range. And
Speaker 1: like it's just not I don't know, everyone's too scared.
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty five, the United the Assistant United States
Speaker 1: Attorney Stuart R. Gray Boys found this case and identified
Speaker 1: Jose Antonio Ramos as a prime suspect. This guy was
Speaker 1: a convicted child molester who had dated one of Aton's
Speaker 1: former babysitters, so that's the connection. And then years before
Speaker 1: his arret his arrest or his being identified in eighty two,
Speaker 1: a bunch of boys had accused Ramos of trying to
Speaker 1: lure them into a drain pipe where he kind of
Speaker 1: like lived or something, and then when they searched the
Speaker 1: drain pipe, they found all these photos of Ramos with
Speaker 1: boys who looked like Aton. So the prosecutors eventually, though,
Speaker 1: they just like could not make anything against him stick.
Speaker 1: Like at one point it sounded like he was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hurt that boy, but then he never named him,
Speaker 1: like he didn't know if it was him. Then nobody
Speaker 1: knew if it was him. And then but for a
Speaker 1: long time people thought that was him, and they just
Speaker 1: couldn't make a case. And in two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: his parents even won a civil suit against Ramos for
Speaker 1: two million dollars, which was mostly symbolic he had no money,
Speaker 1: like they never saw a dime of it. And he
Speaker 1: was never criminally prosecuted for the murder, just the civil case.
Speaker 1: And every year, on Aton's birthday and the anniversary of
Speaker 1: his disappearance, the father would send him a copy of
Speaker 1: the missing poster and say and write what did you
Speaker 1: do to my little boy on the back of it,
Speaker 1: So he was not, you know, giving up on this
Speaker 1: guy being the guy. But then later Ramos denied that
Speaker 1: he killed him and he was a child molester. Like
Speaker 1: he served another twenty year sentence in Pennsylvania for child molestation.
Speaker 1: He was released in twenty twelve, but then was arrested
Speaker 1: on a Megan's law violation. So I really don't know,
Speaker 1: but yeah, a Ton's body was never found and he
Speaker 1: was declared legally dead on June nineteenth of two thousand
Speaker 1: and one, but then cut to twenty ten. This is
Speaker 1: when I'm living in the city. This is when I'm
Speaker 1: reading all about this case because it started to come
Speaker 1: up in like newspapers again because at that time, the
Speaker 1: DA in Manhattan was named Syvance. And he reopened the
Speaker 1: case on the anniversary of the death on May twenty fifth.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of anniversaries of this kid's disappearance. The
Speaker 1: thirty first anniversary of his disappearance, he reopens the case,
Speaker 1: and a couple of years later, April nineteenth, twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: the FBI and the NYPD start excavating the basement much
Speaker 1: like in the episode of one hundred and twenty seven B.
Speaker 1: Prince Street, which is a couple of doors down from
Speaker 1: Aton's house. This residence had been like newly refurbished kind
Speaker 1: of right after his disappearance, a lot like what we
Speaker 1: figured out in this episode, like, oh, what's this construction.
Speaker 3: Going on here?
Speaker 1: Concrete being laid, you know, and the basement had been
Speaker 1: a workshop and a storage space for a handyman. And
Speaker 1: after a four day search, investigator said, quote unquote, nothing
Speaker 1: conclusive found, but then they caught a break a month later,
Speaker 1: May twenty fourth of twenty twelve, NYPD commissioner Raymond Kelly.
Speaker 3: Whose son is Ray Kelly? Who is that or wait
Speaker 3: is that his name?
Speaker 1: He was one of our purpose that we talked about
Speaker 1: in an episode. He was like a he's a Fox News, Oh,
Speaker 1: Fox anchor who allegedly attacked a woman, you know, sexually
Speaker 1: assaulted a woman. And yeah, his father, the whole thing
Speaker 1: was his father was the police commissioner. So Raymond Kelly
Speaker 1: announced that a man was in custody who had implicated
Speaker 1: himself in Aton's disappearance. And this was fifty one year
Speaker 1: old Pedro Hernandez of map Shade, New Jersey, who confessed
Speaker 1: to strangling Aton. He was brought in as a suspect
Speaker 1: after Jose Lopez, who was Pedro Hernandez's brother in law,
Speaker 1: reached out to investigators because he was like, I think
Speaker 1: my brother in law did this. Hernandez eventually confessed, writing
Speaker 1: in his written confession, I'm quote unquote I'm sorry I
Speaker 1: choke him shok, which is, you know, obviously a typo,
Speaker 1: but he wrote a confession. Apparently Aton had a dollar
Speaker 1: and had told his parents that he was going to
Speaker 1: buy a soda to drink with his lunch. Hernandez, who
Speaker 1: was eighteen at the time, worked at a local bodega.
Speaker 1: He told police he lured Aton to the basement where
Speaker 1: he choked him to death, and then he said he
Speaker 1: put the boy into a plastic bag and put the
Speaker 1: bag in a box that he left in a nearby
Speaker 1: garbage and it's just wild.
Speaker 3: He was just never found.
Speaker 1: And he said he believed the child was still alive
Speaker 1: when he left him, but I don't I don't know,
Speaker 1: and he said in one of his interviews, I just
Speaker 1: couldn't let go. I felt like something just took over me.
Speaker 1: And he does have mental health problems that I will
Speaker 1: get into, of course. So Hernandez was charged with second
Speaker 1: degree murdered despite there being no physical evidence to corroborate
Speaker 1: his confession. In twenty fifteen, he was tried, but much
Speaker 1: like in the episode, that case ended in a mistrial
Speaker 1: after eighteen days of deliberations because one juror declined to convict.
Speaker 1: There was wonder who said he was swayed by the
Speaker 1: defense's arguments that Hernandez had mental health problems and that
Speaker 1: called his confession into question, and that said another suspect
Speaker 1: could have been the killer, like how in the episode
Speaker 1: they're trying to act like.
Speaker 3: It could have been Lomitin.
Speaker 1: So he was retried, which hopefully I know they end
Speaker 1: this episode saying we will retry, but we don't really
Speaker 1: get any closure. In twenty seventeen, Hernandez was retried, found
Speaker 1: guilty of murdering kidnapping, and on April eighteenth, he was
Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole
Speaker 1: after serving at least twenty five years. So by my calculations,
Speaker 1: that would be around twenty forty two that he would
Speaker 1: be eligible for parole.
Speaker 3: And I mean he was free and clear for what
Speaker 3: twenty five.
Speaker 1: Years, thirty one years, like thirty three years really, I mean,
Speaker 1: like he didn't go to This happened in seventy nine
Speaker 1: and he didn't go to jail until twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering what ticks off the brother in law.
Speaker 2: I bet you he confessed.
Speaker 1: I mean, I bet you he told him, because like
Speaker 1: if he was dealing with mental health problems, he might
Speaker 1: have just you know, been like I did this thing,
Speaker 1: you know. So I don't know, but the brother in
Speaker 1: law's what got them too. But yeah, this, like the
Speaker 1: case like Aton Pats was like the cautionary missing child
Speaker 1: case I feel like nationwide for like the eighties. And
Speaker 1: then again, yeah, the case was brought up again when
Speaker 1: Lebe Kletsky was killed as well and kidnapped, kidnapped and
Speaker 1: killed because it was just such a short distance, you know,
Speaker 1: first time going out on your own.
Speaker 3: So sad, and he's such a cute little boy. But yeah,
Speaker 3: well yeah that's that.
Speaker 2: Join us for a post mortem. Oh god, this is
Speaker 2: yeah depraved. Okay, moving it along.
Speaker 1: All right, let's get into this post mortem. I mean, sadly,
Speaker 1: it's just like a so sad other story of like
Speaker 1: you know this time of this time in this country.
Speaker 1: That was you play until the lights come on, the
Speaker 1: street lights come on, or whatever is what people say.
Speaker 1: Like that's how I grew up. You played until the
Speaker 1: street lights came on. And like letting a little six
Speaker 1: year old walk to school in New York maybe worked
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, but sadly.
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine it anymore. I mean I was
Speaker 2: home alone starting in first grade, like I made myself
Speaker 2: Celeste pizzas, I went and played outside, like I handled
Speaker 2: my business. I watched Power Rangers on my own, like
Speaker 2: I was that classic like nineties kid that was just
Speaker 2: home alone for hours in the day. And I can't
Speaker 2: imagine that happening today. I can't imagine a first grader,
Speaker 2: like you know, I live across.
Speaker 3: The street from an elementary school.
Speaker 2: I cannot imagine one of those kids I saw at
Speaker 2: the Halloween parade walking home by themselves.
Speaker 3: I would never allow it. Yeah, not to blame parent.
Speaker 2: I mean it's just but is life really unsafer? Like
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1: The dangers have changed right now. It's like we give
Speaker 1: them phones and there's so much danger inside the phones.
Speaker 1: Both psychological and.
Speaker 3: Speaking of danger.
Speaker 2: So I was on TikTok and I saw this girl.
Speaker 2: She a young adult, but she was like, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: I've seen people argue or talk about like parental controls
Speaker 2: on phones and like internet. And she goes, as, I'm
Speaker 2: going to speak from my experience. She goes, I didn't
Speaker 2: get a phone until I was twelve, but I had
Speaker 2: unlimited screen time with absolutely no supervision. And she says
Speaker 2: she talked to her parents later in life and they
Speaker 2: were just like, well, yeah, we trusted you. But she goes,
Speaker 2: I've been talking to adult men since I was undered
Speaker 2: ten years old. She goes, I would make profiles and
Speaker 2: adult men would reach out and I wanted attention, and
Speaker 2: that's to give me attention. And she goes, and when
Speaker 2: I got off my phone and all the message boards
Speaker 2: shoot and then she goes on and on about all
Speaker 2: the different places. But she goes, I've been talking to
Speaker 2: adult men on the internet since I was a young child.
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, like I And she's like, I'm this is
Speaker 3: just a heads up, Like it's not about trust. It's
Speaker 3: not like you got to teach and you got to
Speaker 3: like watch what's happening. Because she didn't know it was
Speaker 3: weird or wrong. Why would she know it's weird to
Speaker 3: talk to adult men, you know, yeah, like I aspect.
Speaker 1: Adults, and I used to get on like I used
Speaker 1: to get on AOL at these people's house I babysat
Speaker 1: for when I was like fourteen, just under their family
Speaker 1: profile and just like talk to random dudes in chat rooms,
Speaker 1: and I assumed they were like they would tell me
Speaker 1: they were in college and I was like a freshman
Speaker 1: in high school, but they easily could have been like
Speaker 1: dirty old men, and you know, like it's.
Speaker 3: Just, uh, that's wild. That's wild.
Speaker 1: And her parents trusted her, but it's like it's not
Speaker 1: even about trust. It's like curiosity and they're lucky that
Speaker 1: you only wanted the attention and you didn't like actually seek.
Speaker 3: To go meet up in public.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, well this is this is switched topics.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like there's so many like there's there's.
Speaker 3: So many dangers.
Speaker 2: It's not it's not switching topics because it's basically like
Speaker 2: the mom truly did nothing, Like none of these people
Speaker 2: did anything wrong.
Speaker 3: Like if you do live two blocks from school, or.
Speaker 2: Maybe Rosie is in third or fourth grade and goes,
Speaker 2: let me just walk to school on my own.
Speaker 3: It is a few blocks, Like, yeah, you know, is
Speaker 3: it that crazy? It's not.
Speaker 1: It's like as a parent, there's truly I might let
Speaker 1: her do it with a friend, like with a buddy.
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like very like.
Speaker 3: That's the thing. I don't know.
Speaker 2: The way it's all connected is it's like you're just
Speaker 2: your kid wants stuff. You want to trust them. You
Speaker 2: need to let them grow. When do you let them go?
Speaker 3: You don't want to be too strict like I had
Speaker 3: friends in high school, or too like parents were so
Speaker 3: strict and or like you finally went to my parents' house,
Speaker 3: that little town house thing where I told you that
Speaker 3: boy who lived next to me had to just bicycle
Speaker 3: back and forth and couldn't.
Speaker 2: Go around the block. But I got to go around
Speaker 2: the block and something happened to me. What would that prove?
Speaker 2: You know, Like, as a parent, you're gonna blame yourself.
Speaker 2: There's no right or wrong answer. It's just like, because
Speaker 2: if you lock everything off the internet, your kid doesn't
Speaker 2: like you, and then they're looking how to get into stuff.
Speaker 3: There is no there's no way to one hundred percent
Speaker 3: protect your kids on.
Speaker 2: It's just communications, and yeah, I think it's just open, honest,
Speaker 2: constant communication, which is hard.
Speaker 3: It's hard because you're tired or whatever, you know, or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's like things going on. I mean it's
Speaker 1: like it's also like I don't know, I could see
Speaker 1: I could see in like nineteen seventy nine being like, oh, Soho,
Speaker 1: streets are bustling at eight am when it's time to
Speaker 1: go to school, like people are going to see him.
Speaker 1: He's going to be around other people or whatever, like
Speaker 1: then he went into a bodega. Just the fact that
Speaker 1: nobody saw a ton Pats at all, Like nobody saw
Speaker 1: this guy take him or anything, like there were no
Speaker 1: witnesses is so wild to me. It's not like they
Speaker 1: were in a rural area. They were in Soho. You know,
Speaker 1: like it's it's just like really but it's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's chilling. I mean, he literally is the face on
Speaker 1: the milk carton.
Speaker 3: But it's sad.
Speaker 1: But also yeah, you know, separating the art from the artist.
Speaker 1: I think Tom Sizemore was a troublesome figure, but he's
Speaker 1: great in this in this episode, he's.
Speaker 3: Here, he's revery.
Speaker 2: He's really good unless but unless he was truly on
Speaker 2: drugs the whole time. Yeah, then it's a method acting.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know which one it is, but it's and
Speaker 2: then it's the horrific like the cement pouring in.
Speaker 3: It's just it's a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2: For some reason, I thought Alex Karpovsky did it like
Speaker 2: the whole time. I'm like, oh, it's this Luky Lou
Speaker 2: for sure, it's the Luky Lou.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't. And and I've seen this episode tons
Speaker 3: of times, so it is.
Speaker 1: Well, it might be thinking of is there is another
Speaker 1: episode where a young guy who wants.
Speaker 3: To be a cop show a Sharon Stone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is fucking around with stuff to get attention and
Speaker 1: like get or find things or whatever.
Speaker 3: And so that could be what you were thinking of.
Speaker 2: No, because he didn't do it either. He did want
Speaker 2: to help. He's just an idiot. Yeah. You know, like
Speaker 2: if you want to be a cop and then you
Speaker 2: become a cop, okay, I can't there's a you know,
Speaker 2: whatever our feelings are, I can respect that a little more.
Speaker 2: Then you're obsessed with cops and you're not a cop.
Speaker 2: That is that is a that is more worrisome. I
Speaker 2: would rather fuck a cop than fuck someone that wants
Speaker 2: to be a cop and can't and is obsessed with
Speaker 2: cops and is buying cop like merch.
Speaker 3: That is the scariest thing you can be.
Speaker 1: So he is an auxiliary auxiliary police officer, which I'm
Speaker 1: looking up is also called volunteer police police, assistant police,
Speaker 1: civil police.
Speaker 3: Do these people get paid? No, they're volunteers. Wow, this
Speaker 3: may they may be armed. It says they may be
Speaker 3: armed or unarmed.
Speaker 2: Well, this reminds me of like it's probably more in
Speaker 2: smaller towns, but these This reminds me of two celeb stories.
Speaker 2: So when we had Tucker on Robert John Burke, he's
Speaker 2: a volunteer firefighter and so that's really sexy. And then
Speaker 2: you know, famously, after nine to eleven, Steve Buscemi went
Speaker 2: back and volunteered at his old firehouse.
Speaker 3: Right, So I.
Speaker 2: Think it's kind of like that when something's going on
Speaker 2: and you need a volunteer cop. But like, why would
Speaker 2: the NYPD need that? They have so many resources and people.
Speaker 2: I understand if you live in the middle of nowhere,
Speaker 2: that would happen. Listen, we we have some, you know,
Speaker 2: give us, give us some. What would sister Peg do
Speaker 2: give us some insight.
Speaker 1: This is our what would Sister Peg do, where we
Speaker 1: direct you towards an organization, a doc, a book, something
Speaker 1: to give you more info about what we talked about today.
Speaker 1: And if you're interested in a little bit more about
Speaker 1: the eighth on Pat's disappearance and you know, and his murder. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: we wanted to point you to an episode of CBS's
Speaker 1: forty eight Hours called The Lost Boy. It aired in
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and it looks back at the past three
Speaker 1: decades since his disappearance and it goes all the way
Speaker 1: up to the sentencing of Pedro Hernandez in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: And the link to the episode will be in our
Speaker 1: show notes and the link is like an Apple TV link,
Speaker 1: but you can also watch it on like Paramount Plus
Speaker 1: and who Like. It's one of those embargoed things where
Speaker 1: there's like five different.
Speaker 3: Places you can watch it.
Speaker 1: So forty eight Hours The Lost Boy, and that will
Speaker 1: be posted in our stories the day this episode comes
Speaker 1: out and saved forever in our WWSPD highlights on our
Speaker 1: Instagram page, which is That's Messed Up Pod.
Speaker 3: Please follow us.
Speaker 2: There and next week we'll be doing surveillance I'm going
Speaker 2: all the way back to season three, episode seventeen, and
Speaker 2: it's a fun one. So I can't wait too for
Speaker 2: you to listen next week. I don't know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: but thanks so much. Peace out everybody, bye ee. That's
Speaker 2: Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot.
Speaker 2: Com, follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up
Speaker 2: Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow
Speaker 2: us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Casey O'Brien and
Speaker 2: our associate producer Christina.
Speaker 1: Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest
Speaker 1: booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme
Speaker 1: song and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer,
Speaker 1: and everybody at Exactly Right Media dun Dune