1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: controlled by one man, starting his own artificial intelligence company. 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 2: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius. Legitimate, he says. 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 3: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 3: be different. He'll vote Republican. 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 4: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 4: on him. 9 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 3: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: Anything he does is fascinating the people. Welcome to Elon Inc. 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 2: Where we discuss Elon Musk's vast corporate empire, his latest 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 2: gambits and antics, and how to make sense of it all. 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Joel Webber, sitting in for David Papa Duplass. 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 2: It's been the talk of the town, so to speak, 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: for these last few days. On Saturday night, The Wall 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: Street Journal dropped his story detailing Elon musk alleged drug 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 2: use over the past few years and discussed how it 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: has or hasn't impacted his businesses. 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 5: After a report from The Wall Street Journal claimed legal 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 5: drug use was the cause of some of Elon Musk's 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 5: questionable behavior and executives are concerned about the impact on 22 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 5: his companies, including Tesla and SpaceX. 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: Musk has admitted to drug use before, and of course 24 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: smoked weed with Joe Rogan that one time during a 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 2: taping of Rogan's podcast, so this wasn't exactly news, but 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: the anecdotes raise important questions like could this impact Musk's 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: status as a federal contractor, especially given how much business 28 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: SpaceX does with the US government. And we'll dig into 29 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 2: another headache for Musk and SpaceX. Last week, the National 30 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: Labor Relations Board issued a complaint over the twenty twenty 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: two firings of SpaceX employees who were critical of Musk's tweeting. 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: SpaceX has since sued the NLRB in an attempt to 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: halt the case. To discuss this and more, will convene 34 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: Lauren gret Us, Bloomberg's expert on all things SpaceX. 35 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 4: Hi, Lauren, Hi, thanks for having me. 36 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: Dana Hole, the world's most tenacious Tesla reporter. Hi, Dana, 37 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: good morning. And Max Chafkin, senior reporter at Bloomberg Business Week. Hello. Okay, Lauren, 38 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to start with you. What did this article 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: say and was there anything newsworthy in here? For you. 40 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 6: I would say the biggest things that stood out to 41 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 6: me having covered SpaceX and this saga for some time 42 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 6: was an all hands meeting that occurred in twenty seventeen 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 6: in which some executives were concerned about Elon's behavior. Apparently 44 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 6: he was slurring, and about fifteen minutes into the all 45 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 6: hands Gwynn shot well, the president of SpaceX supposedly had 46 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 6: to step in and take over the all hands meeting, 47 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 6: and then I think most of the article referred to 48 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 6: or reference the twenty eighteen Rogan podcast incident, which I 49 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 6: think a lot of people are familiar with, in which 50 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 6: Elon Musk, you know, openly smoked something on Joe Rogan's podcast. 51 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 6: It's thought to be marijuana, And that was a little 52 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 6: more direct and that we all saw that happen, but 53 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 6: that one was well documented at the time. There was 54 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 6: a lot of fallout from that. SpaceX or NASA, you know, 55 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 6: got concerned. They did an audit of SpaceX and Boeing's 56 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 6: safety cultures in the wake of that incident. 57 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: Okay, you mentioned what happened on the Rogan podcast. We're 58 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: just going to play that episode so that everybody can 59 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: hear it went down. 60 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: So is that a joint or is it a siga? 61 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 6: It's no, okay, it's marijuana inside of tobacco. 62 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 4: Okay, so it's like plot tobacco. 63 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: You never had that? 64 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I tried one once. 65 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: Come on, man, you probably can't because stockholders. 66 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 4: Right, I mean it's legal, right. 67 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: I think we call that a blunt Dana. So, Dana, 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: how do you feel like Wall Street journal reporting and 69 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: story compares to the incident that Elon waded through when 70 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: he was on that Rugan podcast. 71 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the timing of this is very interesting to me. 72 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: You know, twenty eighteen, Elon's companies were in a very 73 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 3: precarious position. SpaceX had not yet flown astronauts to the 74 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 3: space station. Tesla was struggling to ramp up the Model three, 75 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 3: and the guy was like exhausted trying to keep both 76 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 3: businesses afloat. It was like a really precarious time. And 77 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 3: then the Joe Rogan thing was just like the stupidest 78 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 3: thing he could have done. Five years later, he's like 79 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 3: the richest man in the world. Both companies are doing great. 80 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 3: SpaceX is the dominant launch provider, Tesla is like the 81 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 3: best selling ev maker in the world. Next to BYD. 82 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 3: From where I sit, like Musk amplifying anti Semitism had 83 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 3: a far more severe market impact in terms of like 84 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: stockholders being upset, pension funds writing letters, the stock actually moving. Then, 85 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: Like this story about drug use, and I mean, I 86 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,239 Speaker 3: hate to be to break it to like the school 87 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 3: arms and the audience, but a lot of people in 88 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 3: tech and finance do drugs like a lot. It is 89 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 3: a thing like and it's and I'm not trying to 90 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 3: excuse the behavior, but you know, like Steve Jobs openly 91 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 3: talked about how doing LSD like helps him become this 92 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: creative genius. And I think that for Musk's fans, the 93 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: fact that he is running all these companies while potentially 94 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 3: being on drugs is like another sign of how he's 95 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 3: this like incredible genius and blah blah blah, and it 96 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 3: just sort of feeds into his aura. 97 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 2: Okay, so there's you know, things that he've used before 98 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: that had been known the ambience, the cannabis, but max LSD, cocaine, ecstasy, mushrooms, ketamine, 99 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: some of which are you know, keine in particular, he 100 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 2: seems to have a prescription to help him do his 101 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: thing with but aren't those isn't that a different nature 102 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 2: of drug use when we were going into some illegal 103 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: territory there. 104 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I think kind of what Dan is getting at, like, 105 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: none of this is outside of the norm in Silicon Valley. 106 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: And if the Texas as described by the Wall Street Journal, 107 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: which is a handful of isolated incidents, a Rogan he 108 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: smoked a doobie on the Rogan podcast, he like takes 109 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: some ketamine. There was a party at Art Basel, It 110 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: isn't that much. And I think they're really like two 111 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: possibilities here. One is Elon Musk is doing a lot 112 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: of weird stuff online and we talk about it all 113 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: the time, and some of this stuff is damaging, and 114 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: one way to talk about that if you are a 115 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: Tesla board member, a SpaceX board member, or a critic, 116 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: is to blame something like drug use. The other possibility 117 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: is maybe there's more to this story that was unreported, 118 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: and like that's kind of what Dana is hinting at. Like, 119 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: I guess that's the other possibility, but as it exists now, 120 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: it just doesn't seem all that damning. 121 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 2: I'm going to bring up his response, which he posted 122 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: on X on Monday, whatever I'm doing, I should obviously 123 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 2: keep doing it. And then he responded to himself a 124 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: little bit later or actually just another user, and said, 125 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 2: if drugs actually helped improve my net productivity over time, 126 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 2: I would definitely take them. So let's see, he is 127 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: a drug user and is using them a lot. How 128 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: does this go over with his people? I mean, the 129 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: way you read that's funny. 130 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: It sounds like he said as he took a long 131 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: drag from a healthy joint. 132 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:22,119 Speaker 2: It's hard to say. 133 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I think he's we should also proviso like 134 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: it is not good to violate federal contracting rules if 135 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: you are a federal contractor. But on the other hand, 136 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: it's very hard to see the US government taking any 137 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: kind of serious corrective action because, of course, as we've 138 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: talked about many times, they need SpaceX and and people 139 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: are not necessarily calling into question rockets. And also, newsflash, 140 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: not a huge surprise that Elon Musk is not respecting laws, norms, 141 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: or regulations. 142 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: Dan, do you think there's any version of key man 143 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: risk here? Key man risk being a term that we 144 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: talk about in corporations a lot around corporations, right, if 145 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: if there is a CEO who can no longer or 146 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: do his job or her job, perhaps the company that 147 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: puts the company at risk. Do you think that there's 148 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: any version of this that key man risk plays out 149 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: over this scenario. 150 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: Well, so you know Tesla and their regulatory filings always 151 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 3: talk about key man risk. I mean they always say 152 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 3: we are highly dependent on the services of Elon Musk, 153 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 3: who was not our full time CEO and runs several 154 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 3: other companies. And so yeah, I will like roll over 155 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 3: if like the next you know ten if the ten 156 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 3: K says and like our CEO is a drug addict 157 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 3: and there's a key man risk that he might go 158 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: to rehab and we'd be without like a CEO. I 159 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 3: mean that would be amazing. Elon is just not a 160 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: typical CEO, And I think that the trap that a 161 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 3: lot of journalists frankly fall into is like we're trying 162 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 3: to like establish these norms for him when he has 163 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 3: broken all the norms and been wildly successful at it, 164 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 3: and investors care about one thing and that is the 165 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 3: return on their money. Like since he smoked pot on 166 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 3: the Joe Rogan Show, which we all know was like 167 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 3: a big deal, that really like hurt his reputation hurt 168 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: his standing with NASA caused this big fear, Like the 169 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 3: stock has returned I didn't even check. I don't know, 170 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 3: like what like twelve hundred percent. I mean so like 171 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 3: fundamentally his the investors are like they are used to 172 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: him being a weird guy. 173 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: I love that Dana is a four twenty friendly money manager. 174 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 2: Over here saying. 175 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: Ever since he started smoking weed, is the performance has improved? 176 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 3: You know, that's not to say that the I mean, clearly, 177 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: it seems like the board has concerns. So you know, 178 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 3: I would love to know more about, like what exactly 179 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 3: were the concerns. But I mean, obviously I'm not trying 180 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 3: to be like, do drugs. Drugs are great, But I'm 181 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 3: just saying that, like a lot of people in power 182 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 3: use drugs, and a lot of people in power also 183 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 3: use alcoholic as though. 184 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: If the financial performance turns around, then the story changes completely. 185 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 1: And Danna Strander wrote a story about this the other 186 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: day and made the point that like this is going 187 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: to wind up in shareholder lawsuits and Andy by going 188 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: around talking about how fun it is to mix red 189 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: wine and ambient, you're essentially giving ammunition to critics. If 190 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: the stock ever takes a dive. Right now, We've got 191 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: a great Now, anyone who wants to explain why companies 192 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: aren't performing well, if they stop performing well, has a 193 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: great story to tell. 194 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 3: I mean, you'd have to really prove that it was 195 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 3: because of the drug use. You'd have to like prove that, 196 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 3: like he made a critical decision that was bad for 197 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 3: the company because he was on drugs at the time. 198 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: Laurena, I want to bring it back to you because 199 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: if there were one company that seemed like it might 200 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: have to deal with this a little bit more than 201 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: anybody else, it would probably be SpaceX because of the 202 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: federal contracts the company has. And one thing that's different 203 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 2: now than in the broken episode was that, as I 204 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 2: think Dani alluded to earlier, this is how the US 205 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: gets astronauts to the International Space Station. So what might 206 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 2: happen and unfold at SpaceX or between SpaceX and you know, 207 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: any sort of drug testing that might have to go down. 208 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 6: Well, I think you kind of pointed out there's two 209 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 6: key things that I want to bring attention to, and 210 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 6: why it's different now and why I think the response 211 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 6: will be different. Back in twenty eighteen, SpaceX hadn't launched people. 212 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 4: Yet, so there was still concern about whether. 213 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 6: Or not this was a good idea using commercial companies 214 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 6: to actually launch astronauts in the International Space Station. And 215 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 6: so when he took that drag, you know, they were thinking, Okay, 216 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 6: maybe we do one last gut check in terms of 217 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 6: this space the safety culture at these companies, and so 218 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 6: that was really what prompted it. Now SpaceX has proven 219 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 6: that it can safely deliver astronauts to and from the 220 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 6: International Space Station on a routine basis, so giving up 221 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 6: that capability is going to be extremely difficult. 222 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 4: The other thing that I think is different is. 223 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 6: That we saw him take the hit on the Joe 224 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 6: Rogan podcast, like we had direct evidence that he did that, 225 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 6: Whereas with this Wall Street Journal story, they're referencing that 226 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 6: twenty seventeen all hands meeting and they even said in 227 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 6: the story it could. 228 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 4: Not be determined if the reason for his slurring was. 229 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 6: Drugs, And SpaceX did post what appears to be the 230 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 6: all hands that was referenced in the Wall Street Journal article. 231 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 6: And having covered Elon for a long time, I watched 232 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 6: that video and it seemed pretty standard awkward public speaking 233 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 6: Elon to me, But I you know, I can't determine 234 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 6: what was going on before he took the stage in 235 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 6: that video. 236 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 4: But point being, I don't think we have a direct. 237 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 6: Piece of evidence as we did with the Joe Rogan 238 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 6: podcast to prompt another substantial audit like NASA did back 239 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 6: in twenty eighteen. 240 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: Is it clear if Elon has ever taken a drug 241 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: test and or passed or failed a drug test? Max 242 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: they've said he has. 243 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: I think our assumption is that he has and he's passed. 244 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: If I'm wrong, please correct me. 245 00:12:59,640 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 2: Jenna. 246 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 3: He tweeted that he has right. He tweeted that he 247 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 3: like was tested randomly tweeted or x X I'm sorry 248 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 3: X that he's okay, okay, randomly drug tested at SpaceX 249 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 3: for three years and always passed with flying colors. I mean, 250 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 3: you know, I don't know how. I don't know when 251 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 3: the most recent test was. I have no idea. 252 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: Okay, Now we're going to focus on SpaceX and some 253 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 2: dueling stories that involve the National Labor Relations Board. The 254 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: NLRB issued a complaint about SpaceX and a labor situation there, 255 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: and is scheduled to hear that case in March. SpaceX 256 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 2: has since sued the NLRB, saying the agency is unconstitutional 257 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 2: and the suit should be dismissed. All of this relates 258 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: to a story that Lauren Grush broke for The Verge 259 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 2: before she joined Bloomberg. So Lauren, we're going to start 260 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: with you. 261 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, So that was a very intense week back in 262 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 6: twenty twenty two. Basically I was going home for the day, 263 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 6: which is when you get your best tips, you know, 264 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 6: and someone leaked to me that there was an internal 265 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 6: letter going around within SpaceX and it was a letter 266 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 6: posted to their Microsoft Teams channels, and that it was 267 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 6: pretty critical of Elon and they were saying, you know, 268 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 6: I think the line that I kept pulling for stories 269 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 6: was that he was a frequent source of embarrassment for 270 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 6: the company and that they were calling on SpaceX to 271 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 6: distance itself from his public comments that they should be 272 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 6: better about sexual harassment. 273 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 2: How did the company respond. 274 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, So it was the letter was up for about 275 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 6: a day and a half before they pulled it down 276 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 6: from the team's channels. And then after we published our report, 277 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 6: I started to hear that a bunch of the people 278 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 6: associated with the letter were getting fired. And then Gwynn 279 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 6: Shotwell sent out an email to the company. Really really 280 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 6: cule your email, in my opinion, because it was basically 281 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 6: saying that these rogue employees. I don't remember the exact text, 282 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 6: but it was like these rogue employees were distracting all 283 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 6: of their coworkers and harassing them by telling them to 284 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 6: sign on to this this letter. You know, it is 285 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 6: a really very aggressive email painting a negative picture of 286 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 6: the employees. 287 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 4: And so it was a saga that ended. 288 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 6: Very quickly because they swiftly fired the employees. 289 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 4: And then after that we I spoke with some. 290 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 6: Of the employees who were involved and they told me, 291 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 6: you know, how many people actually signed on to the 292 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 6: letter before it was taken down. It was hundreds of employees. 293 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 6: But then yeah, after they were fired, they were discussing, 294 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 6: you know, whether that was actually a lawful move for 295 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 6: them to be terminated because they were simply expressing concerns 296 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 6: about their workplace conditions. 297 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: And shotwell, chief operating officer for SpaceX, what is the 298 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: most recent news then that's come out, because that was 299 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: everything that went down. There was twenty twenty two. So 300 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 2: here we are now twenty twenty four. National Labor Relations 301 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 2: Board files this complaint which is technically its first move. 302 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: What does that complaint say and how has SpaceX responded? 303 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, so essentially it confirms what the employees were thinking 304 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 6: is that they were illegally fired for voicing concerns about 305 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 6: their workplace conditions. And given the fact that Elon Musk 306 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 6: is the CEO of the company, you know, what he 307 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 6: says and does can be considered, you know, affecting people's 308 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 6: workplace and how they performed that job. And then not 309 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 6: very long after the complaint was issued, SpaceX sued the 310 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 6: And this is the part where it gets a little wonky, 311 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 6: but essentially they were saying that the way that the 312 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 6: NLRB is structured is unconstitutional, and so they're trying to 313 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 6: basically get out of it. But what was really interesting 314 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 6: about that lawsuit is SpaceX alleges that, you know, the 315 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 6: letter was a source of distraction for SpaceX employees, and 316 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 6: that the employees who were fired were fired for violating 317 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 6: various company policies. They didn't go into detail about it, 318 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 6: but that's that is their defense. That's the biggest defense 319 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 6: I've seen from SpaceX since this whole thing went down. 320 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 2: Louren, as best as you can tell, what's the vibe 321 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: within SpaceX right now. 322 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 6: I think the vibe, to be honest, is that everybody's 323 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 6: kind of putting their heads down and working. You know, 324 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 6: this was probably the first time I had seen employees 325 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 6: within the company openly speaking about Elon, and it sadly 326 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 6: confirmed a lot of their fears, which is that if 327 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 6: you do that, you'll get fired. And so I think 328 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 6: the vibe within the company is that they're just. 329 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 4: Not going to do that anymore. 330 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 6: You know, if they do, I will be surprised, will 331 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 6: happily report on it. But yeah, I think it confirmed 332 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 6: most people's suspicions that, you know, you can't speak up 333 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 6: against the boss, You'll you'll be in trouble. 334 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 3: The reaction is also just sort of classic in that 335 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 3: now SpaceX is suing the NLRB basically saying that what 336 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 3: they're doing is like unconstitutional overreach and really going like 337 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: guns blazing at the agency itself, which is, you know, 338 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: another another sort of tactic that Elon has never shied 339 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 3: away from using. He thinks that regulation is run amok 340 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 3: and there's too many rules, and they're going to really 341 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 3: go all out after this agency. 342 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: And I gotta say, I do think talking about these 343 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: two stories kind of in tanem is instructive. You mean 344 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: the drug use plus this one hundred percent, yeah, Because 345 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: on one hand, you know, there's this kind of like divide 346 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: where where there's like the weird stuff Elon tweets and 347 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: the stuff weird stuff, he says, and then the stuff 348 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: he actually does. And I really think we spend probably 349 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: and not just us, but investors and everybody spend probably 350 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: too much time talking about this, says versus the and 351 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: he you know, here we have some like legitimately bad behavior, right, 352 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: we have credible allegations of sexual harassment. There was also 353 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: an earlier allegation made by some SpaceX interns of sexual 354 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: harassment at the company. Yes, and the response yeah, and 355 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: the response was, you know, basically to shut it down 356 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: to dictatorial. It's it's basically the opposite of what Elon 357 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: Musk says. He is, you know, you had you had 358 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: employees who seem to be and maybe I'm maybe I'm 359 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: putting too much on them, but and Lauren can correct me, 360 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: but seem to be raising number one legitimate questions in 361 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: a way that doesn't doesn't seem from the outside to 362 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: be not constructive. It seems like they were attempting to 363 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: address this real issue. And yeah, and they were and 364 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: they were squashed, right, And that's concerning. And I'd say 365 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: I'd argue more concerning from like a perspective of safety 366 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: and all the things, the other reasons you might be 367 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: worried about Elon must drug use. This should concern you 368 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: because like what happens if there's a legitimate if there's 369 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: a door faull not to you know, make the Bonweing comparison, 370 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: but right there's the doors falling off of these Boeing jets. 371 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: You know what happens if there's a similar safety problem 372 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: you have employees calling attention to it. You want to 373 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: have reporting mechanisms. You don't want to have a company 374 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: that just shuts down any descent. It's really bad at 375 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: any company, and it seems especially bad at a company 376 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: like SpaceX and DAN. 377 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 2: If there is one thing that sort of linked thematically 378 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 2: some of Elon's company, it would seem to be labor 379 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 2: relations and sort of the poor state of them. There's 380 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 2: SpaceX and X obviously when it went through the transition 381 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 2: from Twitter Tesla, we've had multiple in the LRB stories there. 382 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 2: What about the other ones in his universe, you know, 383 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 2: the Neuralink and the Boring. Is there anything else out there? 384 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 3: Well, I guess I would just say that I think 385 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 3: that fundamentally, a lot of employees really take pride in 386 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 3: their work, particularly engineers. I mean, these are mission driven companies. 387 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 2: That have within Elon's companies. 388 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 3: In Elons companies, yeah, I mean, these are mission driven 389 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 3: companies and people are really drawn to the mission, and 390 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 3: people really like working there in general, and they where 391 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,239 Speaker 3: the SpaceX jackets and the Tesla ball caps, and like 392 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 3: there's just like an enormous amount of pride. I think 393 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: you have to separate out like working for the company 394 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 3: and working for Elon. But yeah, I mean these are 395 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 3: not unionized workforces, and like any effort to unionize or 396 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 3: criticize your leader is like completely shut down, like almost instantly, 397 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 3: which is what we've seen at all of his companies. 398 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 3: I mean, I can't speak to Neural Lincoln Boring, but 399 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 3: like you can't criticize the boss basically. 400 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 6: I also think the through line through these two stories 401 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 6: is kind of like the double standard of when Elon's antics. 402 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 4: Are a problem and then when they aren't. You know, 403 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 4: when he smoked pot. 404 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 6: You know, everyone was very upset because there is a 405 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 6: very clear clause in NASA contracts that stays that you're 406 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 6: supposed to have a drug free workforce. 407 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 4: But I think what. 408 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 6: SpaceX tried to do after that was say, oh, you know, 409 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 6: this wasn't a big deal. You know, look, see we 410 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 6: have a totally drug free workforce. 411 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 4: It's totally fine. 412 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 6: But then when you call out behavior about sexual harassment 413 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 6: and making light of sexual harassment, then they say, oh, 414 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 6: you can't do that. You know, Elon is SpaceX and 415 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 6: SpaceX is Elon. That was something that one of the 416 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 6: vice presidents said. So it's like there's the moving goalpost 417 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 6: of when we are allowed to be upset about Elon's 418 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 6: behavior and when you can't criticize him at all. 419 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 2: Now for our final segment of the week, Feud of 420 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 2: the Week, Max Chapkin, do you know who the feud 421 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: with between Elon and Oh Man? 422 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: It's my favorite other billionaire slash professional wrestler who's not 423 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: named Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Cuban, who's kind of like the 424 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: original in some ways, like a pioneer of the trolling, 425 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: you know, billionaire category. 426 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 2: But I think Elon took that to new heights. Oh yeah, yeah, 427 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 2: So what is the feud with Mark Cuban. 428 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: Okay, So, so Elon Musk has been, you know, for 429 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: whatever reason. We can debate, you know, going. 430 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 2: On and on and on and on and on. 431 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: And on about you know, the woke mind virus and 432 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: the and the evils of diversity in the workplace. Again, 433 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: this is probably a potential problem for some companies arounds, 434 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: but let's leave that aside. Mark Cuban chimed in and 435 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: offered what was really like just a kind of bland 436 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: i'd say, kind of conventional wisdom y defense of diversity, 437 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: equity and inclusion in companies. Mark Cuban saying essentially, hey, 438 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: like this allows us to you know, overcome some of 439 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: our biases to hire from more verse pools of people 440 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: get considered new perspectives. It also should say, Mark Cuban 441 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: a big time libertarian, right, you know, too much for 442 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: Elon Musk, and he's basically essentially spent the next few days, 443 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, calling Mark Cuban a racist cringe, you know, 444 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: essentially using Mark Cuban as a punchline for his conservative followers, which, 445 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: let's be honest, it's not that hard to do that 446 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: with Mark Cuban. I mean, there is a lot that 447 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: is obnoxious and cringe and so on about Mark Cuban. 448 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: So so it's kind of like easy pickens. And we 449 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: have what essentially is like a professional wrestling match between 450 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: two billionaires. 451 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,479 Speaker 2: Which you know, we've we've seen this unfold before. How 452 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: has Cuban responded so far? 453 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: He's continue to offer sensible And I can't believe I'm 454 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: saying this because again, like this is a guy who 455 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, is famous for getting fined by the NBA, 456 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: and is you know, a shark tank judge. Like I'm 457 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: gonna be careful, but it has not always behaved like 458 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: the most serious figure, but has generally attempted to like 459 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: defend DEI in libertarian friendly ways and is essentially just 460 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: getting shouted down by you know, Elon and his his buddies. 461 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: And it seems like both are kind of riding the 462 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: engagement wave on this. 463 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: Okay, Dana, I'm gonna ask for an impartial view of 464 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: feud of the weeks. How does this one rink compared 465 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 2: to other feuds of the week that Elon Musk has had. 466 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 3: I would call it a mid level feud. 467 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, like a simmering five, Like, is it 468 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 2: like rolling boil yet? Yeah? 469 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 3: I think what's interesting to me is that, Okay, you 470 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 3: have to remember that Tesla is currently being sued by 471 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: the EEOC and the State of California for anti black 472 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 3: racism at its factory in California. And you know, Tesla 473 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 3: has an incredibly diverse workplace, and the company releases first 474 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 3: ever DEI report in twenty twenty. Now, the DEI stuff 475 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 3: is always part of the annual impact report. So you 476 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 3: have this company that has made in enormous strides in 477 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 3: terms of DEI as a corporation, and now the CEO 478 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 3: is basically crapping all over DEI saying that it's reverse racism. 479 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 3: So I just really wonder, like, is Tesla going to 480 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 3: have a DEI report for twenty twenty three or not? 481 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 3: Like is that work being dismantled? Like what exactly are 482 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 3: they doing at the company level here? 483 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 2: It's easy to sort of laugh at this. 484 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: It's like two you know, billionaires barking at each other loudly. 485 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: Texas billionaires. 486 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you're if you are like a person 487 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: of color at one of these companies, like it would 488 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: feel pretty bad to have to like have, you know, 489 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: basically a very pretty sensible explanation of like why it 490 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: makes sense to not hire an exclusively white male workforce, 491 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: and to just have that kind of laughed off, Like 492 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: this kind of thing is like it isn't good for 493 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: sort of regulatory reasons, but also just for like morale 494 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: reasons and so on. 495 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: It strikes me as not great. 496 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 6: I also want to point that, if you know, given 497 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 6: my experience with SpaceX and when I know about SpaceX, 498 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 6: it does fly in the face of at least past experience, 499 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 6: because they do have dei efforts, They have women's groups 500 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 6: within the company that they celebrate. You know, Gwynn has 501 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 6: also spoken publicly about trying to do better in terms 502 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 6: of boosting diversity within the company. So I don't know 503 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 6: if that's going to change, but I at least know 504 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 6: past efforts that SpaceX have tried to, you know, make 505 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 6: that a priority. 506 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: Som Branding to this feud of the way, I will say, 507 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 1: I think it's like Dan is right, it's like a 508 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: mid tier feud. This is not like, this is not 509 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: your like you know, Michelin Star eleven course tasting menu 510 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: a feuds. This is like, I mean, the solid right 511 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: I mean like solid midweek date night. 512 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 2: You know, it's like a farm to table restaurant. 513 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: It's like pretty good, but like not, you know, nothing, 514 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: nothing out of the ordinary. 515 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 2: Max Chafkin, Lauren Grush, Dana Hole, thanks so much for 516 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: joining us on Elon Inc. 517 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 3: Always a pleasure. 518 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. 519 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: Great to be here. 520 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and 521 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 2: Rayhan Harmanci are our senior editors. The idea for this 522 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 2: very show also came from Rayhan Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, 523 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott. Our 524 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 2: supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. That Elon Inc. Theme is 525 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: written and perform by Taka Yazazawa and Alex Segura. Saige 526 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 2: Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast and our executive producer. 527 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber. David Pappadopolis will finally be back next week. 528 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 2: If you have a minute, please rate and review our show. 529 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 2: We'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.