Speaker 1: The Volume.
Speaker 2: All right, welcome to Hoops Tonight. Here at the Volume,
Speaker 2: Happy Wednesday, everybody. Round two coverage of the NBA Playoffs.
Speaker 2: Here at Hoops Tonight is brought to you by Chase
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Speaker 3: How do you cash Back?
Speaker 2: We have very special guests today, a couple of new
Speaker 2: teammates here at the Volume, mister Logan Camden and mister
Speaker 2: Carson Breber, who many of you guys know from many
Speaker 2: of the shows that we've done over the course of
Speaker 2: the last couple of years. They run NERD SESSH. They've
Speaker 2: been grinding building this thing up for a while. I'm
Speaker 2: super stoked for you guys to be on the same
Speaker 2: team with you. And most importantly, we have four incredibly
Speaker 2: entertaining playoff series to get into. So, without any further ado,
Speaker 2: Lakers four Years was billed as Steph Curry versus Lebron James,
Speaker 2: and in my series preview, I was very delivered at
Speaker 2: the beginning to make it clear that I wasn't looking
Speaker 2: at it like that. I was looking at it as
Speaker 2: Lakers versus Warriors, and not just because of Anthony Davis,
Speaker 2: but because there are so many players in this series
Speaker 2: that are going to be massive swing factors at various
Speaker 2: points throughout, and Anthony Davis is just as capable of
Speaker 2: leaving this series as a guy who is determined to
Speaker 2: be the best player in this series as a mister
Speaker 2: Steph Curry or long shot Lebron James. So my question
Speaker 2: for you guys, we can start with you, Carson. How
Speaker 2: do the Warriors solve the Anthony Davis problem?
Speaker 4: I don't know that they really can. I mean, we
Speaker 4: saw Ady absolutely dominate Game one on both sides of
Speaker 4: the ball, and I think that when he's at this
Speaker 4: level as a shot maker, if it's from that ten
Speaker 4: to twelve foot range, if it's his turnarounds out of
Speaker 4: the post as he was especially in the first half here,
Speaker 4: there really isn't an answer. I think that you can
Speaker 4: try sticking Dre on him more. I know that you
Speaker 4: want him in that constant helper role. But I did
Speaker 4: think as we saw him on Ad a bit more
Speaker 4: in the home stretch of this game, the fourth quarter,
Speaker 4: he was able to make him more uncomfortable than Looney.
Speaker 4: I think that he's just a feistier defender. I thought
Speaker 4: he can tested him better. I think that he is
Speaker 4: going to be a more physical guy in that role
Speaker 4: more capable of potentially poking the ball out if he
Speaker 4: gets an ad face up. And Ady did not score
Speaker 4: in the last eight mins of this one, as dominant
Speaker 4: as he was overall. But I think the even bigger
Speaker 4: problem is what Aid is doing defensively, because the bottom
Speaker 4: line is that the Lakers have a size pain advantage
Speaker 4: offensively from a lot more than ad. We saw their
Speaker 4: guards getting downhill largely at will. If Lebron turns up
Speaker 4: to that top tier, Ruey and Vando even are going
Speaker 4: to be relatively effective interior scores if they get their looks.
Speaker 4: But I thought what Ady was able to do completely
Speaker 4: taking away the paint was incredible. I think he is
Speaker 4: on one of the best defensive runs in this postseason
Speaker 4: that I can recall from anybody. So I think they
Speaker 4: actually have to go to more steph pick and roll,
Speaker 4: and I think that they're probably gonna have to involve
Speaker 4: eighties man some as scary as that is because of
Speaker 4: how good he is guarding in space by big man standards,
Speaker 4: just to get him out of the paint. To put
Speaker 4: yourself in a position where it's okay, they're hedging. Now
Speaker 4: we have a four on three, we have Looney and
Speaker 4: Dre making decisions out of the short role. Because through
Speaker 4: these playoffs so far, if it hasn't been unbelievable Steph
Speaker 4: shot making, that's been their best offense, it's been Okay,
Speaker 4: we're playing with an advantage. These guys are great decision makers.
Speaker 4: We have good cutters, good shooters. Let's dissect now, and
Speaker 4: it all starts with demanding the respect that Steph does
Speaker 4: as a ball handler. And we saw them go to
Speaker 4: Steph handling the ball more late in this game, and
Speaker 4: we saw it spark a bit of a run. So
Speaker 4: I think eighty is a big problem. I think the
Speaker 4: Lakers overall size athleticism advantages their defensive personnel, their ability
Speaker 4: to attack the paint. This is a lot for the
Speaker 4: Warriors to work out. But I think that they're gonna
Speaker 4: need nuclear staff and they're gonna need to maximize feeding
Speaker 4: off of his attention and they have to lean into
Speaker 4: that one.
Speaker 3: Hundred percent agree. What are your thoughts slogan?
Speaker 1: I think the exact same thing.
Speaker 5: I think they need to turn to stuff, pick and
Speaker 5: roll at the top of the key see if they
Speaker 5: can draw him out.
Speaker 1: I mean, they completely took the pain away in.
Speaker 5: This game, they wrecked up ten blocks. Just eleven percent
Speaker 5: of the Warriors shots come at the rim. That's twelve
Speaker 5: total attempts through the game. Not only did they not
Speaker 5: get a lot of attempts at the rim, they didn't
Speaker 5: convert them.
Speaker 1: They just make fifty eight percent of their at rim attempts.
Speaker 5: And I think it's, like you noted Carson, so many
Speaker 5: long rangy defenders here, it's gonna be hard with any
Speaker 5: to get any interior offense at all in this series.
Speaker 5: I think that starts with the pick and roll at
Speaker 5: the top of the key. If that's Pool, if that's Play,
Speaker 5: if that's Steph, and they were dropping a lot too.
Speaker 5: Pool got some really good opens looks that he was
Speaker 5: able to step into out of the pick and roll,
Speaker 5: because guys are so far dropped into the paint.
Speaker 1: I think the pick.
Speaker 5: And roll you try to get ad to draw out
Speaker 5: of the paint. I think you either try to drive
Speaker 5: into maybe get Steph into float to range. Just get
Speaker 5: this defense in rotation a little bit. But it is
Speaker 5: going to be tough too with the drop that they
Speaker 5: were running on all of the non shooters too, Graymond Looney,
Speaker 5: Jamichael Green, Gary Payton. The second all of these guys.
Speaker 5: Even backdoor cuts weren't open in this series too. But
Speaker 5: I think it starts with leaning into the pick and
Speaker 5: roll too more with all of these guys full play
Speaker 5: and Steph Curry. This is a Warriors team that is
Speaker 5: running pick and roll with the least amount of frequency
Speaker 5: out of all the teams in the playoffs left and
Speaker 5: we've seen it lead to consistent offense for a team
Speaker 5: like the Miami Heat with a lot of great shooters.
Speaker 5: I think that is what the Warriors need to lean
Speaker 5: into really heavily in this series, just to attempt to
Speaker 5: get this Lakers defense in.
Speaker 1: Rotation a little more and just open up.
Speaker 5: Space in the mid range and in the paint, because
Speaker 5: with what they're doing right now in the personnel for
Speaker 5: the Lakers, there's nothing. It is super clogged up in
Speaker 5: the paint and on the interior of the arc.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know this, This thing with begging for Steph
Speaker 2: to run more high pick and roll has been a
Speaker 2: theme for Warriors fans in general for years now, like
Speaker 2: dating all the way dating all the way back to
Speaker 2: the original run, even before Kevin Durant was around, and
Speaker 2: that was what ended up turning around the twenty fifteen Finals,
Speaker 2: for instance, was just leaning heavily on high pick and
Speaker 2: roll again.
Speaker 3: Like it.
Speaker 2: It's almost been said so many times that it's become cliche,
Speaker 2: but it's just the reality of the predicament. I expect
Speaker 2: this series, especially after rewatching that game this morning, I
Speaker 2: think both teams are going to be able to massively
Speaker 2: hinder the opposing offense. Carson, you hit on some stuff
Speaker 2: with Draymond Green on Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis has a
Speaker 2: has a real advantage against Draymond Green in height, and
Speaker 2: he's going to get some good looks against him. When
Speaker 2: I say good looks, I mean like looks that he
Speaker 2: he's capable of making in terms of hook shot and
Speaker 2: fadeaways and stuff like that. But I do think he
Speaker 2: can take away the easy towards the rim stuff, which
Speaker 2: is a big deal. Andrew Wiggins did a good job
Speaker 2: on Lebron James last night. He's going to do a
Speaker 2: good job on him throughout the series, although I'd like
Speaker 2: to see Lebron James try to post him up a
Speaker 2: little bit more. I thought that the Warrior guards at
Speaker 2: various points in the game did a good job against
Speaker 2: Angelo Russell and Austin Reeves, even though those guys did
Speaker 2: have baskets in specific matchups and specific scenarios. So I
Speaker 2: think the Warriors are going to eventually slow down the Lakers.
Speaker 2: And on the other end of the floor, again, like
Speaker 2: the all of the off ball stuff, the lock and
Speaker 2: trail stuff, I think is kind of dead on arrival,
Speaker 2: except against the Laker bench when you get some sloppy
Speaker 2: or less focused defenders that are going to make more mistakes,
Speaker 2: like Troy Brown Junior for example.
Speaker 3: But like to.
Speaker 2: Me, there's a schematic reason why the high pick and
Speaker 2: roll matters, and it's less about like, oh, we need
Speaker 2: the ball in STEP's hands, that's not it. It's about
Speaker 2: getting Steph separated. Like if you could get the ball
Speaker 2: to Steph off the ball coming off of screens but
Speaker 2: he's open, ideally, that's obviously a great option. But it's
Speaker 2: less about that and more about the simple fact that
Speaker 2: in a lock and trail position, Jared Vanderbilt can stay attached.
Speaker 2: In an on ball situation, it's much easier for Steph
Speaker 2: to get him separated, and it's really simple. If Steph
Speaker 2: is running off these actions, Jared Vanderbilt has a very
Speaker 2: simple assignment he's just running around after it, right, But
Speaker 2: if it's a live dribble situation, he's squared up with them. Laterally,
Speaker 2: he's trying to set himself up to chase over picks, right,
Speaker 2: So he's setting up his high foot to.
Speaker 3: Get over whatever.
Speaker 2: Direction on the screen is coming, and Steph can flip
Speaker 2: the angle on him three or four times in rapids accession,
Speaker 2: and that gets to the point where Jared Vanderbilt inevitably
Speaker 2: is going to run in the screen as Kevon Looney's
Speaker 2: flipping that angle on the screen every single time. Laker fans,
Speaker 2: you're probably super familiar with this with Austin Reeves. Austin
Speaker 2: Reeves is one of the best players in the league.
Speaker 2: Get this, just multiple behind the back dribbles and counter
Speaker 2: moves to get the defender to lean one way. And
Speaker 2: Dante de Vincenzo did a great job on Austin Reeves
Speaker 2: during one of the shifts, but Austin still managed to
Speaker 2: get downhill on him. You probably remember the lob dunk
Speaker 2: to Lebron in large part because he just hit four
Speaker 2: or five counter moves before he finally got downhill. That's again,
Speaker 2: the best option for the Warriors to get shots in
Speaker 2: this slog of a series as we move forward, will
Speaker 2: be Steph with the live dribble being able to get
Speaker 2: separation from Jared Vanderbilt, which will pull Anthony Davis out
Speaker 2: further to have to contest those shots, which is going
Speaker 2: to open everything up on the back end, and the
Speaker 2: Lakers or the Warriors are going to do just as
Speaker 2: well slowing down the Lakers on the other end. It's
Speaker 2: going to be a rock fight, and I do think
Speaker 2: that it's going to be a question of who can
Speaker 2: make more shots Lebron James and Anthony Davis around the
Speaker 2: rim or Steph Curry and pick and roll. My next
Speaker 2: question for you guys is this dating back to last year.
Speaker 2: And I know it's just one game, so I obviously
Speaker 2: we have the right to kind of flip this opinion.
Speaker 2: Do you think this Lakers team is better than any
Speaker 2: team that the Warriors played during their playoff run last year?
Speaker 4: That's a good question. I think, I lean yes. I
Speaker 4: think because of and the Lakers aren't the epitome of
Speaker 4: like consistent seamless execution, because of the lapses that we
Speaker 4: see from them when they get up and obviously we
Speaker 4: almost saw it to a disastrous extent last night, But
Speaker 4: I do feel that their ability to consistently exert that
Speaker 4: rim pressure compared to the inconsistency and difficult shot making
Speaker 4: and decision making that we saw from that Celtics team
Speaker 4: last year. And also, I think this Lakers team is
Speaker 4: every bit as good, if not better, defensively because of
Speaker 4: how dominant eighty is on the interior. You mentioned how
Speaker 4: great Jared Vanderbilt has been consistently off ball on Steph
Speaker 4: or was in Game one. I guess it depends on
Speaker 4: what version of Lebron they get, because the secondary creation
Speaker 4: from Reeves and Dill and Shrewder was awesome in this game,
Speaker 4: and it's not always that awesome, like if Dilo's difficult
Speaker 4: shot making is off, he can be a flat out negative.
Speaker 4: Shrewder I thought was weaponizing his quickness. He took some
Speaker 4: bad shots, but he was able to get away with
Speaker 4: it because of how good he was getting to the
Speaker 4: rim getting the line overall, and Reeves is pretty consistent
Speaker 4: when those guys are clicking. When this team is locked
Speaker 4: in defensively, And if we see a better version of Lebron,
Speaker 4: then I think it would be no doubt. But I'm
Speaker 4: still just a bit concerned about Lebron's reliance on the
Speaker 4: jump shot, which has been abysmal. How content he has
Speaker 4: been to say, all right, I'll get my looks off
Speaker 4: the catch out of side pick and roll, or if
Speaker 4: I am gonna create my own shot, it's very likely
Speaker 4: to be a pull up jumper. I don't know how
Speaker 4: much of that is him pacing himself. I don't know
Speaker 4: if the foot is a concern there. It's tough to say.
Speaker 4: But regardless, this version of Lebron does concern me a bit.
Speaker 4: But I think this Lakers ceiling, yeah, is better than
Speaker 4: any team that the Warriors beat last year. In Game one,
Speaker 4: I thought the Lakers looked outstanding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is a better team that they faced.
Speaker 5: But I think it largely has to do with the
Speaker 5: defensive ceiling that the Lakers can reach. I think they're
Speaker 5: just a flat out better defense. I mean, Boston was
Speaker 5: great last season, but I think this is a better
Speaker 5: Lakers team because of all the advantages that they have physically,
Speaker 5: especially in we saw Wiggins, Looney, Draymond come up big
Speaker 5: and hustle and effort plays in the finals last season,
Speaker 5: and that's something that they're going to really struggle to
Speaker 5: create an advantage in in the terms of they're not
Speaker 5: just going to be able to out hustle the Lakers.
Speaker 5: The Lakers have such a physical advantage that just pure
Speaker 5: effort is not going to give them an advantage. And
Speaker 5: I do think you're right, Carson. I think Lebron is
Speaker 5: the swing factor if they are definitively the better team.
Speaker 5: What I'd like to see Lebron if he is not
Speaker 5: fully locked in and fully engaged in going to control
Speaker 5: the game the way old Lebron could Jason something you
Speaker 5: laid out, I just want to see him use his
Speaker 5: size more on a guy like Wiggins. Just back him
Speaker 5: down and go on the low block, go on the post,
Speaker 5: back him down and just garner.
Speaker 1: A little more attention.
Speaker 5: Get a guy to slide off of a shooter and
Speaker 5: create an open look for him. If you're not going
Speaker 5: to control the game and be super physical and the
Speaker 5: old Lebron and getting downhill and just completely controlling the game,
Speaker 5: then just draw a little more attention. A we said
Speaker 5: this on the show last night, Carson, A Lebron jump
Speaker 5: shot is not an efficient shot.
Speaker 1: At this point in his career.
Speaker 5: He's shooting fourteen point six on threes in these playoffs
Speaker 5: thus far, and.
Speaker 1: It's just not a good jump shot.
Speaker 5: It's just not an efficient look for any team on
Speaker 5: any possession. I want Lebron to lean into what he
Speaker 5: does well at this point in his career if he's
Speaker 5: not going to make a concerted effort to get to
Speaker 5: the wreck. But I do think this Lakers team is
Speaker 5: better than Boston, and they're going to be drastically better
Speaker 5: than Boston if Lebron could turn back the clock.
Speaker 2: So to me, you both hit on important things. The
Speaker 2: defensive personnel element. Boston is a deeper defensive team that
Speaker 2: goes without saying in terms of, like, you know, the
Speaker 2: seventh or eighth guy off the bench being an outstanding
Speaker 2: defensive player. That's a different level than what the Lakers
Speaker 2: can muster. But the top end defense of personnel on
Speaker 2: the Lakers is definitively better, and specifically the guys that
Speaker 2: you're involving in the most important action for the Warriors,
Speaker 2: which is a Steph Curry ball screen or off ball screen.
Speaker 2: Right talked a little bit about this last night. But
Speaker 2: like as good as Robert Williams is and as athletic
Speaker 2: as he is, he's just not the same as Anthony Davis.
Speaker 2: And as I think Al Horford has a similar defensive
Speaker 2: IQ to Anthony Davis, just without the physical tools, right, Like,
Speaker 2: if you could combine those two guys, you might have
Speaker 2: an Anthony Davis type of talent. But and then all
Speaker 2: of these guards like you know, Marcus Smart, Derek White,
Speaker 2: Chase and Steph over the top of screens, they just
Speaker 2: can't really apply the same level of back pressure to
Speaker 2: someone like Jared Vanderbilt. And so again, in terms of
Speaker 2: a defensive matchup, it's less about the totality of the
Speaker 2: roster and the way that this Laker team can guard
Speaker 2: this Warriors team because of the guy that can put
Speaker 2: on Steph and the guy that they can put in
Speaker 2: the back line to help against Steph. Again, that's the
Speaker 2: power of Anthony Davis, the best defensive player in the
Speaker 2: league in my opinion, when he's truly locked in. They
Speaker 2: have a bunch of very very specific roster attributes that
Speaker 2: make them a terrible matchup for the Warriors in a
Speaker 2: way that goes beyond what the teams last year. By
Speaker 2: the way, that doesn't mean the Warriors can't win the series.
Speaker 2: It just means it'll be a tougher fight. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you really look back last year, they never were
Speaker 2: challenged enough to go to a seventh game. Even in
Speaker 2: that Memphis series they'd punted Game five. Yeah they were.
Speaker 2: They won the Celtics series in six, but they were
Speaker 2: down two to one. They dominated that series down the stretch,
Speaker 2: like the Warriors never really got pushed to the brink
Speaker 2: in that in that particular series to the same extent
Speaker 2: last year, to the same extent that I think this
Speaker 2: Lakers team is capable of. Again, it remains to be seen.
Speaker 2: But because it's because the defensive personnel to legitimately bothers
Speaker 2: Steph a switchable size, which is such a huge factor
Speaker 2: because the Warriors have been playing rim protectors off the
Speaker 2: floor for years and years and years, and then on
Speaker 2: the offensive end of the floor a great amount of
Speaker 2: aggregate size to get high quality shots in the paint
Speaker 2: against the Warriors. Again, like if you look at the
Speaker 2: shot chart for the Lakers in that game, they're just
Speaker 2: getting a lot of shots in that inside of fifteen
Speaker 2: feet close to the rim. Even for their guards against
Speaker 2: the Warriors drop coverage, they're just getting a lot of
Speaker 2: really good looks. So I do think I do think
Speaker 2: this Laker. I'm not going to say they're better than
Speaker 2: the Celtics just yet. I just think they're capable of that,
Speaker 2: and the Lebron part is the swing factor, and I agree.
Speaker 3: Now, I do think the.
Speaker 2: Lebron stuff is a little overstated, and this is the
Speaker 2: case that I'd make for that. It really just comes
Speaker 2: down to the jump shot for me. Now, Logan, you said,
Speaker 2: you know, this is just at this point in his career,
Speaker 2: he can't make a shot efficiently the way he used to.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that that's not necessarily the case. I
Speaker 2: guess next year will be the determining factor. But Lebron
Speaker 2: has had this every once in a while, where like
Speaker 2: he'll go six or seven years of consistent jump shooting
Speaker 2: and then they'll just have this one year where he
Speaker 2: can't make a shot. That was basically twenty fifteen, and
Speaker 2: it's happening again this year. It's been like an all
Speaker 2: season like wide open catch and shoot threes. Every single
Speaker 2: type of shot that Lebron takes that is a jump shot,
Speaker 2: he's been converting at a significantly lower rate than he
Speaker 2: used to. He's been a thirty six percent postseason three
Speaker 2: point shooter for like the better part of a decade now,
Speaker 2: Like that's just the reality of Lebron James. He's missing
Speaker 2: the same shots he's been usually making, and if you
Speaker 2: really zoom in on the numbers, he's actually getting to
Speaker 2: the rim and finishing there about as frequently and about
Speaker 2: as efficiently as ever. He's shooting over sixty three percent
Speaker 2: on twos in this postseason run. That's the second highest
Speaker 2: mark of his career. The volume is pretty similar to
Speaker 2: what it was in twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: If he just.
Speaker 2: Shot his regular thirty five ish percent from three, he'd
Speaker 2: be averaging twenty six points per game on a pretty
Speaker 2: decent level of efficiency, which is Lebron James, you know.
Speaker 2: And then defensively, I think he's been fantastic in the
Speaker 2: last several games since the beginning of the Memphis series.
Speaker 3: During that run last night.
Speaker 2: He had an unbelievable block of Steph Curry on the
Speaker 2: opposite end of the rim. They tell you go to
Speaker 2: the other end of the rim because the net and
Speaker 2: the rim will protect you, and Lebron somehow evaded all
Speaker 2: of that and blocked Steph on the opposite end of
Speaker 2: the rim. I thought he had a couple of big
Speaker 2: transition pushes, one where he got called for a travel,
Speaker 2: but there was another one where he just saw the
Speaker 2: tunnel there and Jordan Poole was the only one that
Speaker 2: was back, and he just hit the jets and he's like,
Speaker 2: I'm getting a freaking foul here, man, And he got
Speaker 2: there and he got the free throw that bumped the
Speaker 2: lead up to three, which put Golden State in a
Speaker 2: different situation with the in terms of their offensive approach.
Speaker 2: So with Lebron now, he might never make the jump
Speaker 2: shot in this playoff run, and if that's the case,
Speaker 2: I think that lowers this Lakers ceiling. But I do
Speaker 2: think Lebron's mobility and age are being overstated a bit
Speaker 2: when I do think this is just a guy that
Speaker 2: is having an uncharacteristic bad shooting season, which is something
Speaker 2: he's been capable of doing. But let's let's move on
Speaker 2: to Nuggets Suns. So this series has been super interesting
Speaker 2: on a bunch of different levels. The Suns team in particular,
Speaker 2: I don't think we had a really good feel for
Speaker 2: because they played so many games again bad teams. When
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant came back and so we're like, okay, they're
Speaker 2: beating everybody. Okay, they're scoring the ball really well, but like,
Speaker 2: what are they really capable of? And you know, we
Speaker 2: start to think about our postseason you know, checklists, and
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, do they thrive in physicality? We'll see,
Speaker 2: you know, do they have good point of attack defense?
Speaker 2: And we'll see, you know, how's their rid protection at
Speaker 2: like all these different things. The big one that concerned
Speaker 2: me was like, they rely on pull up jump shooting,
Speaker 2: and I've just seen that sort of thing go south,
Speaker 2: and once again, through two games, they're way below their
Speaker 2: normal level of efficiency and pull up jump shooting in
Speaker 2: a super physical series. And here we are with Kevin
Speaker 2: Durant the postgame presser saying things like, man, I got
Speaker 2: good looks. I don't know what's going on. They're just
Speaker 2: not going in. He was saying the same shit against
Speaker 2: Celtics last year. So, like, I do think that a
Speaker 2: lot of this is some reality check for the Suns
Speaker 2: and the way they play. That said, Nikola Jokic has
Speaker 2: been the best player in the series by a mile
Speaker 2: in my opinion, and I think that a lot of
Speaker 2: the postseason limitations with Jokic, I've just posted them as
Speaker 2: relative to the top players in the league. But I
Speaker 2: think even beyond that, in the media and with fans,
Speaker 2: I think people have portrayed Yokic is a bad playoff player,
Speaker 2: which is something I disagree with. Do you think this
Speaker 2: series is going to finally silence the Jokic doubters?
Speaker 4: Well, I'll start on this one, Jason, because this is
Speaker 4: a big part of my personal brand. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I cannot get inside the mind of a legitimate Yokic doubterer,
Speaker 4: And of course there are fair questions to ask. For example,
Speaker 4: I was concerned about him matching up with the Sun's
Speaker 4: pick and roll in this series and the level of
Speaker 4: pull up jump shooting that book and Katie and CP
Speaker 4: three when he was healthy or capable of, because it
Speaker 4: was just two years ago that we saw CP three
Speaker 4: score eleven mid range points per game on sixty five
Speaker 4: percent shooting from the mid range against Yokic playing out
Speaker 4: of drop where I thought he conceded those shots like layups.
Speaker 4: I do think he's fared better in that matchup than
Speaker 4: I expected. I do think the Nuggets will overall have
Speaker 4: schemed better. I think Aaron Gordon has done a really
Speaker 4: good job on Kadie and stretches. I think they've done
Speaker 4: a good job with those trailing contests on the midrange
Speaker 4: pull ups, and bottom line, the Suns aren't making the
Speaker 4: shots at an efficient enough clip. And it's like Mike
Speaker 4: Malone said after Game one, tough twos aren't gonna beat
Speaker 4: the Nuggets in their offensive machine. Even though Game two
Speaker 4: was a more labored effort. Nobody creates better shots than
Speaker 4: the Denver Nuggets, and I do think Nikole Jokic deserves
Speaker 4: the line and share of the credit for that. And
Speaker 4: he has consistently been a phenomenal offensive player in the postseason,
Speaker 4: better even, I think than in the regular season because
Speaker 4: he becomes more aggressive as a scorer. We've seen him
Speaker 4: increase his scoring in each postseason compared to that regular
Speaker 4: season by over three points per game every single time
Speaker 4: that he's been there, and we've seen him elevate the
Speaker 4: Nuggets team offense to be a top five playoff offense
Speaker 4: every single time he's been there. Two of those years
Speaker 4: with Fakuno Compazzo and Austin Rivers as his backcourt and
Speaker 4: then with Monte Morrison. Will Barton like he is up
Speaker 4: there with Steph as the most complete one man offensive
Speaker 4: engine in basketball right now. So if you can't see that,
Speaker 4: then I really don't know what you're watching. Like, the
Speaker 4: guy's an unstoppable one on one score, Jason. He's one
Speaker 4: of the great playoff scores in NBA history. He is
Speaker 4: currently the highest scoring center per game in NBA history. Now,
Speaker 4: you do have a bit of a decline from some
Speaker 4: of the all time greats in their later years. If
Speaker 4: you just go through age twenty eight seasons, then of
Speaker 4: guys to play in at least forty five games, he's fourth.
Speaker 4: He's behind just Kareem Wilt and Shack. So for that
Speaker 4: to be your secondary skill set, that's pretty darn good.
Speaker 4: And nobody on this Suns team can guard him like
Speaker 4: nobody in the NBA can guard him because there is
Speaker 4: a level of touch shot making with him that you
Speaker 4: cannot take away. When a guy's two hundred and eighty
Speaker 4: five pounds and can put up a hook or a
Speaker 4: floater and hit it with a sixty percent clip whenever
Speaker 4: he wants, or go to that turnaround and hit that
Speaker 4: with a fifty plus percent efficiency, or spin out and
Speaker 4: maintain his body control and get a good look around them,
Speaker 4: or come out of picking pop situations. He's a forty
Speaker 4: percent career three point shooter in the playoffs. There's just
Speaker 4: no formula to stop that when he's also the best
Speaker 4: passer arguably on the planet and certainly the best passing
Speaker 4: big that we've ever seen. So I think this should
Speaker 4: convince people. But again, it's like, I don't know how
Speaker 4: you could hold the last two years against him. Sure
Speaker 4: he had some ugly moments defensively, but offensively he did
Speaker 4: everything he always has. And I tweeted this out and
Speaker 4: I believe it. I think the gap between him and
Speaker 4: Mbat offensively in a playoff setting is much bigger than
Speaker 4: people have made it out to be. I think he
Speaker 4: is point blank a better playoff scorer than Joel Embiid,
Speaker 4: and I think that the career production certainly speaks to that,
Speaker 4: almost three more points per game in the playoffs. The
Speaker 4: efficiency he's almost seven percent better in terms of effective
Speaker 4: field goal percentage because he is a better shot maker,
Speaker 4: and I think that is what scales better than anything else.
Speaker 4: That is what we saw in that massive game against Minnesota.
Speaker 4: That's what we saw in this pass game. If it's
Speaker 4: as a cut the floaters off the roll, as a
Speaker 4: popper or from that float range out of the post.
Speaker 4: His touch and shot making is just on a different
Speaker 4: level and you can't take that away. He doesn't need
Speaker 4: to get to the line, He doesn't need anything other
Speaker 4: than what he does with regularity and what he makes
Speaker 4: look easy. And of course he can't double him. And
Speaker 4: you can absolutely hinder Embiid as a scorer if you
Speaker 4: are doubling him aggressively and he's not holding you accountable
Speaker 4: for that at the rate that he needs to. And
Speaker 4: that's just never gonna happen with Yo, because he's gonna
Speaker 4: do that every single night. So I think he's been
Speaker 4: awesome in this playoff run. I think he is going
Speaker 4: to make a push for best player in the world.
Speaker 4: I think Steph and he are clearly the two best
Speaker 4: offensive players.
Speaker 3: In the world.
Speaker 4: And this is what he does. This isn't a surprise,
Speaker 4: This isn't like some revelation. This is nikol Jokic and
Speaker 4: what he does. And yeah, now it's leading the team
Speaker 4: success because he has a capable supporting cast around him,
Speaker 4: and by the way, a supporting cast that is clearly
Speaker 4: better than the Suns. Denver should win this series, not
Speaker 4: just because they have the best player, but because they
Speaker 4: have the better team.
Speaker 5: Carson might not be able to get into the mind
Speaker 5: of a Jokic hater, but I will toss play this
Speaker 5: one very quickly. The sad reality of NBA discourse nowadays
Speaker 5: in the way the neanderthal brain thinks, is basically, until
Speaker 5: Nikola Jokic gets that ring, people are gonna hate on
Speaker 5: his regular season accolades and all the awards that he's
Speaker 5: won and all the praise that he gets from NBA
Speaker 5: heads across the league. Until Jokic gets that monkey off
Speaker 5: of his back and finally gets a ring, most people
Speaker 5: are going to discredit everything he's done in the playoffs,
Speaker 5: everything that he's done award wise. So yeah, I think
Speaker 5: for the mass contingency, you know, in the big NBA discourse,
Speaker 5: until Jokic gets a ring, I think people are still
Speaker 5: going to hate and still not going to crown him
Speaker 5: and praise is Jokic. But like you said, Carson, I
Speaker 5: think if you're watching these games, if you're seeing what
Speaker 5: Nikola Jokic is doing night tonight, masterful passing in a
Speaker 5: spec in Game two, like you said, Carson, where his
Speaker 5: skill set, you can't take it away when everything else,
Speaker 5: it's such a slog. Offensively, Jamal Murray is not hitting anything.
Speaker 5: He goes three to fifteen. Michael Porter Junior is not
Speaker 5: giving you anything. The Nuggets offense is just not working
Speaker 5: like a machine when it is so down and dirty
Speaker 5: and so nasty. Jokic didn't need an excuse. He took
Speaker 5: over and he did what superstars do, and he showed
Speaker 5: you how we can score the basketball and how you
Speaker 5: can't take away his scoring skill set either. So to
Speaker 5: keep it brief, I think for the for most of
Speaker 5: people in NBA discourse, until he gets that ring, I
Speaker 5: think that people aren't going to give him his love.
Speaker 5: But if you're watching these games, I don't know how
Speaker 5: you can discredit what Yokic is doing on the court.
Speaker 5: And I also think he is one of the two
Speaker 5: best players in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a fine line between being like
Speaker 2: over the top critical for no particular reason and just
Speaker 2: being slow to elevate. So, for instance, like for me,
Speaker 2: I'm okay with being like, yeah, I get the trophy
Speaker 2: before I put you over steph Kde and Lebron Sorry, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's that ridiculous of a take.
Speaker 2: I and to me, that's more about the sanctity of
Speaker 2: the achievement. I mean again, like it's just like, let's
Speaker 2: just give you an example, like for Jokic to get
Speaker 2: the trophy, he has to go through Kevin Durant and
Speaker 2: the Suns team, and then he's gonna have to go
Speaker 2: through either Steph Curry the defending champion, or this Lebron
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis team, and then in all likelihood the Boston
Speaker 2: Celtics in the NBA Finals. Like when he gets to
Speaker 2: the end of that rope, that's a level of achievement
Speaker 2: that needs to be treated with the appropriate level of respect.
Speaker 2: And like that's the thing, like Lebron James in his
Speaker 2: past has gone through Damian Lillard and then gone through
Speaker 2: Harden and Russell Westbrook and then gone through jokicch and
Speaker 2: Murray and then gone through Bam and Jimmy like he's
Speaker 2: done it, Like when you've done the sixteen win thing.
Speaker 2: It's just so sacred to me that I'm okay with
Speaker 2: being like, hey, jokicch you're freaking incredible, man, go get
Speaker 2: the trophy before we give you the that that level
Speaker 2: of respect, I'm okay with that. However, there's a difference
Speaker 2: between that and like, this dude's a bum.
Speaker 3: He can't succeed in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: That's just stupid, and like and again, like there is
Speaker 2: again when I'm comparing him to the top players in
Speaker 2: the league, do I think there's a difference between Like,
Speaker 2: for instance, I think Anthony Davis has been every bit
Speaker 2: is impressive in this postseason run. As Nuklea Jokic, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but his impact on the defensive end has been frightening
Speaker 2: and has Like this Laker team, I'm not sure they
Speaker 2: win a single one of these games if Anthony Davis misses.
Speaker 2: That's just that's just a real They're not beating Memphis,
Speaker 2: and they're not be They got their ass kicked every
Speaker 2: time he was off the floor against Memphis, and he
Speaker 2: excuse me, I had to play every single minute in
Speaker 2: the second half against the Warriors last night. Like there
Speaker 2: is a there is value in what in what Anthony
Speaker 2: Davis can do on the defensive end. I think he
Speaker 2: has a legitimate case to be the best player in
Speaker 2: the world if he can lead this Laker team to
Speaker 2: an NBA championship. I do think it's okay to bring
Speaker 2: up the difference in being what Yoki has become, which
Speaker 2: is an acceptable COG and a defensive system in the
Speaker 2: NBA playoffs, that is where he needed to get to
Speaker 2: and he's there on the offensive end, and Carson, you
Speaker 2: hit on this he made. This is a crazy stat.
Speaker 2: He made fourteen field goals in the paint In Game
Speaker 2: two against Phoenix, the Suns attempted fourteen shots in the
Speaker 2: entire game in the restricted area. See like, that's that's
Speaker 2: the type of dynamic that wins in the NBA playoffs.
Speaker 2: Like when we look back, it's like last year's the
Speaker 2: outlier at Steph Curry's the greatest perimeter player that's below
Speaker 2: six ' five in the history of the NBA. Right,
Speaker 2: But before that, it's Rock fight Giannis. Before that, it's
Speaker 2: rock fight Lebron. Before that, it's rock fight Kawhi. Guys
Speaker 2: that are great at fighting their way to spots on
Speaker 2: the floor that are close to the rim, or they
Speaker 2: can make shots with a high level of efficiency even
Speaker 2: in super physical environments, Whereas when you're a specialist in
Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty four feet off the dribble jump shots,
Speaker 2: there's so much more variance in a postseason setting. I
Speaker 2: do think the Suns will have a game in Phoenix,
Speaker 2: probably Game three, where KD and Book both shoot over
Speaker 2: fifty percent on pull up jump shots and they beat
Speaker 2: the Nuggets, Like, that's certainly a possibility, But to do
Speaker 2: that four times out of seven.
Speaker 3: Is so hard.
Speaker 2: Whereas if you have a guy that all And this
Speaker 2: is the fear for the for the Lake, for the
Speaker 2: Laker Warriors series is like if they can't flip that
Speaker 2: interior shot dynamic where the Lakers are so comfortable around
Speaker 2: the rim, they're just gonna lose because that's gonna be
Speaker 2: there every single game. It's not gonna be there four
Speaker 2: times out of seven, it's in every single game. Thing
Speaker 2: there are dependable things in basketball. Defense is dependable close
Speaker 2: to the rim, shot making is dependable. Anything from the
Speaker 2: perimeter has variants, and there's an up and down factor
Speaker 2: to that. Nikola Jokic is dependably getting great shots in
Speaker 2: this series that the Suns can't get, and that's why
Speaker 2: he's the best player in the series. And if KD
Speaker 2: can't catch just the ridiculous heater as a pull up
Speaker 2: jump shooter, they're in serious trouble. All right, Let's move
Speaker 2: over to the Eastern content a conference so congrats to
Speaker 2: Joel Embiid who won the NBA have won the NBA
Speaker 2: MVP yesterday. I do want to give him the benefit
Speaker 2: of the doubt. To Carson's point about being a better
Speaker 2: playoff shot maker, I do want to give him a
Speaker 2: chance to demonstrate that in this series, although I'm concerned
Speaker 2: under the injury circumstances. Joel just had a very good
Speaker 2: year this year, better than any year he's had as
Speaker 2: a shot maker. So I want to see if it translates.
Speaker 2: And Brooklyn, it's just, you know, they're double teaming him
Speaker 2: a lot. He's playing down to the competition a certain extent.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I want to see him against Boston, but he's a
Speaker 2: little bit limited, Harden. I know he had a great
Speaker 2: game in Game one, but there were some schematic reasons
Speaker 2: for that as well, And so I do think that
Speaker 2: it's fool's gold if you expect him to do that
Speaker 2: five more times in the series. So my question is this,
Speaker 2: do you guys think Joel Embiid can bring enough to
Speaker 2: this series to give the Celtics or to give the
Speaker 2: Sixers a chance to beat the Celtics.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, they have a chance. I mean they've already stolen
Speaker 4: one on the road, and I think that we continue
Speaker 4: to see the execution issues from the Celtics in the
Speaker 4: clutch Game one. A lot of it, I thought was
Speaker 4: about the consistency of their defensive effort. There's no reason
Speaker 4: for them to not win that game when they come
Speaker 4: out humming offensively like they did. And I thought the
Speaker 4: lack of adjustments, the willingness to continue to just switch
Speaker 4: everything on to Harden and him getting the looks that
Speaker 4: he wanted all night. It's just problematic. And I don't
Speaker 4: know how many times we can see the Celtics underachieve
Speaker 4: their talent level and just be cool with it, because
Speaker 4: it is incredibly frustrating and it remains a concern.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: The Sixers aren't exactly the epitome of playoff greatness. I
Speaker 4: don't think there are two stars on the planet as
Speaker 4: of this point who have underachieved more on the playoff
Speaker 4: stage relative to expectation then James Harden and Joel Embiid.
Speaker 4: This is the best version of Embiid. He absolutely has
Speaker 4: the opportunitytunity to prove that statement wrong, but up to
Speaker 4: this point he's regressed every single time he's been there.
Speaker 4: A combination of his body breaking down, his jump shot
Speaker 4: breaking down, and his difficulty handling double teams basically. So
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna give the ultimate vote of confidence to
Speaker 4: those guys, but there's no question they can match the
Speaker 4: Celtics in terms of talent approximately, especially with the level
Speaker 4: that they're getting from some of these role guys Paul
Speaker 4: Reed de Anthony Meltin. You have two really high level
Speaker 4: perimeter shot makers and creators in Maxi and Harden. You
Speaker 4: have a good mismatch attack or pull up jump shooter
Speaker 4: all around supporting score and Tobias Harris, and you have
Speaker 4: potentially an unstoppable one on one scorer in Joel Embiid.
Speaker 4: So I do think it's going to be a question
Speaker 4: of what level is he at, how healthy is he?
Speaker 4: Like is he going to be in the spot where
Speaker 4: it's either we double him or we die, Because if
Speaker 4: the Celtics get to that point, then they're in trouble.
Speaker 4: Like I do think they have good personnel to double
Speaker 4: and bed with. They have good long athletes, they have
Speaker 4: good defensive personnel overall, but it's a scary spot to
Speaker 4: be in against the best spot up shooting team in
Speaker 4: the league. So I think we need to see consistently
Speaker 4: disciplined Boston defense. I think we need to see Tatum
Speaker 4: and Brown not settling, getting to the rim, getting high
Speaker 4: quality shots. We need to see them and this guardcore
Speaker 4: creating good drive and kick opportunities, and if they execute
Speaker 4: in all those areas, then they should win. But this
Speaker 4: isn't going to be a matter of James Harden doing
Speaker 4: what he did, because I thought that was an exceptional
Speaker 4: display of shot making. Harden could not score the rim
Speaker 4: against the nets. He was nine of thirty four. I
Speaker 4: believe it was on twus in that series. Like their length,
Speaker 4: their athleticism, defensively, their help, it was too much for him.
Speaker 4: And he got a few looks at the rim in
Speaker 4: this one, but it was mostly the step backs from
Speaker 4: deep and his ability to kill them from that mid
Speaker 4: range area to take what they were giving him in
Speaker 4: that range where he was nails. But he's not gonna
Speaker 4: do that consistently. He's not the level of downhill force
Speaker 4: that he used to be. So it is going to
Speaker 4: be about Embiid. It's gonna be about the level that
Speaker 4: he can play at and if he can be his
Speaker 4: best version. Having stolen one on the road, the Sixers
Speaker 4: should probably win this series now, but I don't know
Speaker 4: if I'm comfortable picking that. Just because it seemed that
Speaker 4: the situation with Mbid's knee was worse than initially believed
Speaker 4: and this is like a speedier return, then that would
Speaker 4: suggest maybe. But it's just a concern for me that
Speaker 4: he's not going to be one hundred percent and if
Speaker 4: he's not, then I think the Celtics talent advantage is
Speaker 4: still significant enough to where they should win.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: We are going to need to see great Joe El Embiid.
Speaker 5: We have yet to see him really reach that peak
Speaker 5: as a shot maker in the playoffs. We have yet
Speaker 5: to see him be a great playmaker in the playoffs
Speaker 5: when they send bills at him, or just even be
Speaker 5: flat out efficient. And Embid is still a guy who's
Speaker 5: really reliant on getting to the line as well too.
Speaker 5: He's gonna have to play great now on the other
Speaker 5: side of that too.
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys.
Speaker 5: I was completely disappointed with the level of defensive engagement
Speaker 5: and effort we saw from Boston in that first game too.
Speaker 5: On what they did in James Harden, They're just it
Speaker 5: was a very soft defensive effort from Boston, and it's
Speaker 5: like very similar to the Lakers and how they take
Speaker 5: games off. It seems like Boston it just has this
Speaker 5: propensity to take quarters off, to just lose it at
Speaker 5: certain points.
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think Boston.
Speaker 5: Boston scares me like no other team in the NBA does,
Speaker 5: with their propensity to just disappear at the drop of
Speaker 5: a hat like a magician, just bam. We get bad Celtics.
Speaker 5: It's turnovers, it's bad decision making, it is a complete collapse.
Speaker 5: It is bad defensive effort. We haven't seen the Celtics
Speaker 5: just be consistent in closing moments, and sixteen turnovers in
Speaker 5: Game one was really bad too. Schematically, I want to
Speaker 5: ask you guys, I mean, do you guys think that
Speaker 5: they should doubles an Embiid or you content with Horford
Speaker 5: and Robert Williams in the paint Like I think that
Speaker 5: Horford and Robert.
Speaker 1: Williams have done a tremendous job when I'm beating in
Speaker 1: the past. How do you defend him? How do you
Speaker 1: try to limit him in this series? What do you
Speaker 1: do to limit Joel Embiid?
Speaker 2: If you're Boston, they do a really nice job of
Speaker 2: mixing up coverages. When I went back and watched all
Speaker 2: their matchups, I watched particularly the last two matchups they
Speaker 2: had this year, because Joel and me played really well
Speaker 2: in those two games. I thought it was good examples
Speaker 2: of how to like kind of deal with it, and
Speaker 2: there was no real rhyme or reason to it. The
Speaker 2: game where he was on fire late they double teamed
Speaker 2: him and PJ. Tucker burnt them out of the corner
Speaker 2: with a couple of threes. But he played really well
Speaker 2: in the game with the Jason Tatum game winner, and
Speaker 2: there was a possession late in the game where he
Speaker 2: got switched onto Jalen Brown and they just let him
Speaker 2: work one on one and he ended up drawing a
Speaker 2: foul and going to the line. Sometimes they double his face,
Speaker 2: sometimes they double from behind, sometimes they double on the catch,
Speaker 2: sometimes they double off the dribble. It's very seems to
Speaker 2: be very improvisational. There doesn't seem to be any rule
Speaker 2: set of rules that they're following. At the end of
Speaker 2: the day, like the Sixers actually scored pretty well on
Speaker 2: emb double teams on a points per possession basis, But
Speaker 2: it's not entirely telling because Joel Embiid also turns the
Speaker 2: ball over a ton, so one point, you know, two
Speaker 2: points per possession, for example, is undercut by the sheer
Speaker 2: number of transition possessions that are triggered by him turning
Speaker 2: the basketball over. Carson is right that his struggles handling
Speaker 2: double teams are a legitimate postseason problem. You know, I
Speaker 2: I think everything comes down to Boston's defensive effort. When
Speaker 2: I went back and rewatched that first game, their offense.
Speaker 3: Wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2: I want to give a ton of credit to the Sixers.
Speaker 2: Two man, were they flying around defensively with their five
Speaker 2: out group in that in that final sequence, The job
Speaker 2: that Tobias Harris and PJ. Tucker were doing rotating around
Speaker 2: on the back end as they were trying to hedge
Speaker 2: with Tyree Smacks here when Tyre's would get beat off
Speaker 2: the dribble, or when they'd slip a ball screen or
Speaker 2: something like that, like every time someone got downhill, they
Speaker 2: were facing bodies in Sixers jerseys. It was a really
Speaker 2: good defensive effort. It was more the other end of
Speaker 2: the floor where the where the Celtics just were playing
Speaker 2: pickup basketball, like, oh, let's switch this, and you know,
Speaker 2: we'll just kind of let James Harden get comfortable with
Speaker 2: the live dribble when literally there's two guys on the
Speaker 2: floor that can't shoot, so we should be pressing up
Speaker 2: on him and forcing him to drive into all of
Speaker 2: our traffic. It was just a really bad defensive effort.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I don't think Embiid's gonna have enough. And the main
Speaker 2: reason why is if it was the same Joel Embiid
Speaker 2: that we saw when he beat the Celtics earlier this year,
Speaker 2: I feel way more confident because he was in such
Speaker 2: a good groove and he was healthy. But the reality
Speaker 2: is is with him being a little outer of rhythm
Speaker 2: by being away from the game for the past week
Speaker 2: or so, and the way that can affect his work
Speaker 2: from the foul line, and I'm not talking about free throws,
Speaker 2: I'm talking to live droubles, triple threat stuff from the
Speaker 2: foul line, and then also just conditioning and the fact
Speaker 2: that he's had to rest so much on that knee,
Speaker 2: and the fact that in order to beat the Celtics
Speaker 2: team when they're really locked in on both ends, and
Speaker 2: Bead's gonna have to be so so so good for
Speaker 2: so long in these games. I just don't think that
Speaker 2: he has enough in terms of conditioning to make that work.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get to our last series here. So
Speaker 2: Nick's Heat. Game one Knicks played really well for a while,
Speaker 2: then the Heat come back, stagnate him with a bunch
Speaker 2: of switching, make a bunch of shots, and end up winning.
Speaker 2: R J. Barrett for whatever reason, co ops the offense
Speaker 2: down the stretch, makes a bunch of mistakes. Game two,
Speaker 2: Sposer runs a ton of z own Jimmy Butler's out
Speaker 2: stagnates the hell out of in a different way than
Speaker 2: Finally down the stretch, they unlocked a couple of different
Speaker 2: ways to attack the zone and basically screening the top
Speaker 2: guy for Jalen bruntson so you could get some pull
Speaker 2: up jump shots, and then Julius Randall just backing his
Speaker 2: way down until he could draw multiple defenders for kickouts.
Speaker 2: I I'm gonna save my answer until you guys go.
Speaker 2: But at one one here headed back to Miami with
Speaker 2: Jimmy and Julius both kind of banged up. Who do
Speaker 2: you favor at this point? I think it depends.
Speaker 4: On Jimmy Butler's health, because the Miami Heat continue to
Speaker 4: overperform their talent level more than any other team in
Speaker 4: the league. And I remember there was a point, with
Speaker 4: maybe a month or so left in the regular season
Speaker 4: where I came on your show, Jason, and we talked
Speaker 4: about who's most likely to pull off an upset out East.
Speaker 4: I literally laughed at the idea that the Heat would
Speaker 4: do it, because I thought this is probably the least
Speaker 4: talented team in the entire playoff field. And they were,
Speaker 4: and then they lost Tyler Hero and then they lost
Speaker 4: Jimmy Butler, and they continue to scheme up in ways
Speaker 4: that maximize their talent level. I think Spoe is the
Speaker 4: best coach in the league. I think their ability to
Speaker 4: create out of the pick and roll with limited athletes,
Speaker 4: but to consistently weaponize their shooting has been super impressive.
Speaker 4: The level they've reached defensively, their ability to force the
Speaker 4: Knicks to beat them with decision making and shooting, which
Speaker 4: can be two weak points with this team, as we
Speaker 4: saw in Game one where they collapsed, especially in the
Speaker 4: shooting category. It's so impressive, And if Jimmy is healthy,
Speaker 4: I think they have the level of big time shot making,
Speaker 4: of takeover scoring in those clutch situations and of course
Speaker 4: Jimmy is just their best perimeter defender, then I would
Speaker 4: pick them, But I think you also hit on why
Speaker 4: if he's not healthy, if he doesn't play, or if
Speaker 4: he isn't like normal Jimmy Butler. I do Lean New York,
Speaker 4: and it is that they have the guys who can
Speaker 4: create better looks and who are more big time shot makers,
Speaker 4: and I thought that that different showed late in this game.
Speaker 4: Of course, the Knicks were forty percent from they outshot
Speaker 4: expectations there. But Brunson was able to create quality looks
Speaker 4: for himself even against the zone in this second half,
Speaker 4: and was nails as a pull up jump shooter. Like
Speaker 4: you said, Randall's ability to attack mismatches which we saw
Speaker 4: early in this game, and then against the zone to
Speaker 4: draw help, and I thought created two great looks from
Speaker 4: deep at the end that won this game. Basically, the
Speaker 4: Heat still don't have that caliber of creation even in
Speaker 4: the aggregate, and we saw they had a lull three
Speaker 4: plus minutes no buckets in this fourth quarter. Knicks had
Speaker 4: the opposite, They had the shot makers, and they surged ahead.
Speaker 4: So I just feel like that gap is enough to
Speaker 4: wear Eileen New York without Jimmy, But what a testament
Speaker 4: that is to the heat that it's a conversation because
Speaker 4: just such clean execution on both sides of the ball.
Speaker 4: They only have fourteen turnovers through two games here, Like
Speaker 4: it's remarkable what they do. But I do think that
Speaker 4: Randall Returning tipped that shot, creation star shot made making
Speaker 4: pendulum enough in the knicks favor to where I think
Speaker 4: they're the better team.
Speaker 5: I still think the Knicks are the better team without Jimmy,
Speaker 5: but if Jimmy's healthy, I think I lean Miami. And
Speaker 5: that's schematically. It's what they've been able to do out
Speaker 5: of the pick and roll. Like you said, Carson, this
Speaker 5: is a Miami team that did not run a lot
Speaker 5: of pick and roll in the regular season. They're running
Speaker 5: thirty one possessions per game, the highest frequency in these playoffs.
Speaker 5: And it's like you said, when you have all these shooters,
Speaker 5: if you sag off for any any bit, if you
Speaker 5: give these guys a sighted daylight, Duncan Robinson, Max Drus Gabe, Vincent,
Speaker 5: Tayla Martin, any of them, if you sag off for
Speaker 5: just a little bit, they're gonna earn you and they're
Speaker 5: gonna hit that three Jason, I think this is exactly
Speaker 5: what the Knicks need to do down the stretch when
Speaker 5: they're offense stagnates.
Speaker 1: And that second quarter into the third, when.
Speaker 5: Miami switched into that two three zone, it was like
Speaker 5: it was like the Miami Heat.
Speaker 1: They threw out a fishing rod and the Knicks took
Speaker 1: the bait.
Speaker 5: They were like, go ahead, take all the open threes
Speaker 5: that you want, and the Knicks hook line and sinker
Speaker 5: took it. Take a bunch of threes. That is not
Speaker 5: their bread and butter. They need to run more pick
Speaker 5: and roll. They need to get downhill, they need to
Speaker 5: collapse the defense, and they need to open up more
Speaker 5: open looks instead of just taking stagnant threes. The Knicks
Speaker 5: ran the eleventh most pick and roll in the regular season.
Speaker 5: They are running four less pick and roll possessions per
Speaker 5: game at the second least frequency among teams remaining in
Speaker 5: the playoffs. I think when this offense stagnates, you have
Speaker 5: got guys who can get downhill, especially Jayalen Brunson, set
Speaker 5: your pick and roll ball handlers up for more success.
Speaker 5: You've got two guys who are basically eightieth percentile out.
Speaker 1: Of the pick and roll that's a manual.
Speaker 5: Quickly and Jalen Brunson, when your offense is stagnating, give
Speaker 5: them a screen, let them go to work against the zone,
Speaker 5: because settling for threes is not the right ideal for
Speaker 5: the Knicks. I don't want to pick this series, if
Speaker 5: I'm being honest with you guys. This scares me like
Speaker 5: no nothing else. I think the Knicks are more talented,
Speaker 5: but man, I bet against Jimmy last round and I
Speaker 5: got burnt like nothing else, and I don't want to
Speaker 5: better against Jimmy Butler. I think I'm slightly leaning Miami,
Speaker 5: although I will say this is my final point. If
Speaker 5: the Knicks can out rebound and outwork Miami on the glass,
Speaker 5: I think that is where they hold their most distinct advantage.
Speaker 5: With Mitchell Robinson, with Isaiah harden Stein, with Josh Hart,
Speaker 5: with Julius Randall, with all these great physical athletes. If
Speaker 5: the Knicks can really really dominate the glass in this series,
Speaker 5: I think they can pull it out. But that's really
Speaker 5: their only advantage to me. With the Jimmy Butler thing,
Speaker 5: i think I'm still slightly leaning Miami.
Speaker 2: Though that's been the most disappointing thing for me from
Speaker 2: the Knicks is first half of Game one, they played
Speaker 2: with so much force and they've looked like the bigger, stronger,
Speaker 2: faster team, and then Miami's kind of flipped that dynamic
Speaker 2: to a certain extent in the last three halves at
Speaker 2: least evened it out. The biggest schematic thing that's bothering
Speaker 2: me is I don't know why they aren't switching these
Speaker 2: guard pick and rolls yet with Miami, And the main
Speaker 2: reason why is, like, just from a skill development perspective,
Speaker 2: like when I'm working on pull up jump shots, there's
Speaker 2: two different kinds of shots that I work on. There
Speaker 2: are shots where I'm baking in automatic separation and then
Speaker 2: there's shots where I need to generate separation. So, for instance,
Speaker 2: like if I'm working on pick and roll shots and
Speaker 2: I'm going to hit a move to set up a
Speaker 2: guy on a screen, and then I'm going to try
Speaker 2: to do, you know, one or two hard ribbles to
Speaker 2: my left or one or two hard dribbles to my
Speaker 2: right with a certain footwork to elevate and knock down
Speaker 2: a shot. I'm not planning on there being a defender there.
Speaker 2: The idea there's the defenders behind me. I am practicing,
Speaker 2: and I will rep out hundreds and hundreds of these
Speaker 2: pull up jump shots expecting that I expect to get
Speaker 2: from a specific coverage, right Whereas if I'm squared up
Speaker 2: with the guy in isolation, I've got to make a
Speaker 2: move to generate separation, So I've got to cover more ground.
Speaker 2: I've got to set the hint at one direction and
Speaker 2: come back the other way. It's much more difficult, much
Speaker 2: more taxing on the body. And so when you run
Speaker 2: a drop coverage the way that the Knicks have been
Speaker 2: running against Lowry and Vincent and a lot of these
Speaker 2: pick and rolls for Miami, you're allowing players that will
Speaker 2: struggle to generate separation against NBA level athletes to get
Speaker 2: natural separation that occurs as part of the coverage. And
Speaker 2: now they're going into a shot that they practice and
Speaker 2: rep thousands and thousands of times.
Speaker 3: And of course, Kyle Lowry and Gave.
Speaker 2: Vincent are knocking down some pull up jumpers that they've
Speaker 2: been making their whole damn basketball lives since they were
Speaker 2: in high school. Like switch the damn screen, make Gave
Speaker 2: Vincent and Kyle Lowry make a step back jump shot
Speaker 2: over Mitchell Robinson or Julius Randall off the bounce. This
Speaker 2: is a team that fundamentally lacks shot creation, even with
Speaker 2: Jimmy Butler let alone. Why when they don't have him,
Speaker 2: so I'd like to see. I do think the Knicks
Speaker 2: have more talent, they have more athleticism. I just this
Speaker 2: is coaching. Mismatches are a real thing that take place
Speaker 2: in the NBA and Spolsra I think is the very
Speaker 2: best coach in the NBA, and he's done a really
Speaker 2: nice job of baiting the Knicks into their worst tendencies. Honestly,
Speaker 2: right now, had I not already made a pick, I'm
Speaker 2: like on the fed's leaning slightly towards Miami, but I
Speaker 2: haven't seen enough to flip my pre series pick, so
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stick with the Knicks for now. All right, guys,
Speaker 2: that is all we have for today. Logan and Carson,
Speaker 2: thank you guys so much for coming on you. I
Speaker 2: think you guys do great work. Like I said again,
Speaker 2: I'm super stoked to have you guys on the team
Speaker 2: and I'm looking forward to talking a lot of basketball
Speaker 2: with you guys over the course of the next few years.
Speaker 2: As always, we appreciate you guys, and we will see
Speaker 2: you tomorrow night.
Speaker 1: The volume