WEBVTT - When will the Earth become uninhabitable?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>Works dot Com. Hey you, wasn't it stuff to blow

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<v Speaker 1>your mind? My name is Robert Lamb and I am

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<v Speaker 1>Christian Sega. You know, I think we live all of

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<v Speaker 1>our lives and the knowledge and or in the denial

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<v Speaker 1>of imperments. We know that we're not going to live forever.

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<v Speaker 1>That people we love, the people we hate, most of

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<v Speaker 1>the things we hold dear will simply fade away. And

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time we can be so very resistant

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<v Speaker 1>to change and the idea of change, we wind up

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<v Speaker 1>taking certain things for granted, even the very planet that

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<v Speaker 1>we live on. To invoke the Goldilocks principle, our planet

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<v Speaker 1>is just right for life. We've got the right ingredients,

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<v Speaker 1>the right crusts, the right temperature, the right moon, the

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<v Speaker 1>right star, the right core, the just the right celestial neighbors.

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<v Speaker 1>We've largely lucked out when it comes to near Earth

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<v Speaker 1>objects in five major distinction events. Later here we are

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<v Speaker 1>thriving within and in some cases beyond the portion of

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<v Speaker 1>the Earth's atmosphere and climate that we evolve to thrive in.

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<v Speaker 1>But when will it all end? When will this place

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<v Speaker 1>become uninhabitable to us? Some of the threats are so

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<v Speaker 1>distant that they're almost impossible to really weigh. Will we

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<v Speaker 1>even be us when our species encounters them? Others, however,

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<v Speaker 1>are far more pressing. Yeah, So I'm going to try

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<v Speaker 1>to give you all an example. I'm gonna take this

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<v Speaker 1>from the personal to the macro. Okay, yesterday I had

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<v Speaker 1>to go to a retirement planner. I didn't have to.

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<v Speaker 1>I chose to um a human or a website. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a huge I did the website first, and then

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<v Speaker 1>they said, you might want to talk to a human

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<v Speaker 1>about this, and so I went, I had a meeting.

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<v Speaker 1>I sat down, we like looked at forms and stuff

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<v Speaker 1>like that. But you know, it's not I'm forty. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not the kind of thing that I've really spent a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of time thinking about other than just having jobs

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<v Speaker 1>that have, for one case, building up right. Uh, And

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<v Speaker 1>I just just really, you know, haven't thought in a

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<v Speaker 1>future oriented way like that before. And then immediately after that,

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<v Speaker 1>I came home and I started to research for this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>which is essentially about planning for global annihilation, right for

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<v Speaker 1>for getting ready for the world, for Earth specifically to

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<v Speaker 1>be uninhabitable for us as human beings. Well and hopefully.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean the optimistic spin on that is preventing these

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<v Speaker 1>the events and preventing the kind of cascading effects that

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<v Speaker 1>could leave the earth uninhabitable. Yeah, but as we get

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<v Speaker 1>as we will get into some of them are inevitable

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<v Speaker 1>and there's literally nothing we can do about them. But

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<v Speaker 1>those are luckily billions of years away. Yeah, some of

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<v Speaker 1>these things are just so far off it's pointless to

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<v Speaker 1>worry about them. But some of them are worth worrying about,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're going to spend some time with those as well.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what's kind of interesting is in your intro

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<v Speaker 1>that you presented just now, you touched on the very

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<v Speaker 1>first topic that you and I ever worked on together,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the Goldilocks prince bole. Do you remember I

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<v Speaker 1>wrote a script for a brain Stuff episode like four

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<v Speaker 1>years ago that you performed, and it was you and

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<v Speaker 1>Kristen con and it was about the gold lux principle.

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<v Speaker 1>And then uh, then the stuff about mass extinction. My

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<v Speaker 1>first official episode as a co host of Stuff to

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<v Speaker 1>Blow Your Mind was about mass extinction. So this this

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<v Speaker 1>is interesting. Yeah, that that one was interesting because I

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<v Speaker 1>remember that the topic was great. Uh and yet even

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<v Speaker 1>though you know, I had plenty of interactions with with

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<v Speaker 1>Congre previously. That was when I got to realize, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>we have no on air chemistry to get at all. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that was actually that That was sort of like along

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<v Speaker 1>the lines of what we were trying to do was

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<v Speaker 1>we were trying to test out all the various people

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<v Speaker 1>who did on screen stuff to see who did have

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<v Speaker 1>chemistry yea yeah. And while we were filming that, I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, I can I can tell we don't really

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<v Speaker 1>have we don't have a lot of it. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>People can go watch it and judge for themselves. It's

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<v Speaker 1>out there and the content is still good. It is yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh so let's yeah, and this episode we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>discuss some long term concerns, some short term concerns regarding

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<v Speaker 1>the habitability of the planet Earth, as well as some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of random concerns thrown in there. Uh. I guess

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<v Speaker 1>you can sort of think about it in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>a really complex board game, right where you have you

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<v Speaker 1>have sort of the early game uh opponents or early

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<v Speaker 1>game threats you have to deal with. You have the

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<v Speaker 1>in game stuff, you know, the real doom counter type scenarios,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you just have random events that may pop

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<v Speaker 1>up and just in the game. Yeah, you're using a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of Arkham asylum phraseology here. I like it. I

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<v Speaker 1>like it. Uh yeah. And and also, to be clear,

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<v Speaker 1>the reason why I was really interested in covering this, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>even though we somehow ended up pairing this together with

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<v Speaker 1>zoophilia on the same day as topics that we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to discuss, it's actually because I'm working on this sci

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<v Speaker 1>fi horror story and I want it to be about

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<v Speaker 1>trans humans returning to an uninhabitab Earth. As I started

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<v Speaker 1>thinking to myself, like when will Earth be uninhabitable and

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<v Speaker 1>what will it look like? Yeah? Yeah, I mean this

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<v Speaker 1>is a This is a common trope in in science fiction,

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<v Speaker 1>the idea of of the world becoming poisoned of humans

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<v Speaker 1>of course moving beyond the Earth and then coming back

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<v Speaker 1>to it. Yeah, and in some cases the Earth is gone. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>if I remember correctly, in the in the Dune books,

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<v Speaker 1>it's reference that the original terror, the original Earth no

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<v Speaker 1>longer exists. Is that right? I didn't even know that

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<v Speaker 1>they acknowledged any connection to actual like humanity. Okay, yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>the like the Tradees are supposed to be um descendants

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<v Speaker 1>of the Greeks, is that right, But but I believe

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's what God Emperor of Dune. In one of

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<v Speaker 1>the many lectures that the title character gives, he refers

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<v Speaker 1>to the original Earth and how it no longer exists.

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<v Speaker 1>It may be a reference elsewhere in the in the

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<v Speaker 1>saga as well. But yeah, this episode is kind of like,

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<v Speaker 1>how do we to what extent can is that unavoidable?

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<v Speaker 1>The eventuality of Earth being gone or Earth being just

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<v Speaker 1>there but but nothing that we could live upon, And

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<v Speaker 1>what can we do about especially some of these random

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<v Speaker 1>and short term threats to the habitability of Earth. Now

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<v Speaker 1>one of the long term effects this is not something

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<v Speaker 1>we need to worry about tomorrow or technically in the

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<v Speaker 1>next hundred years, but it is going to be a concern.

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<v Speaker 1>It's probably one of the first things most people think of, right,

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<v Speaker 1>is the death of the Sun. That's right, like the

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<v Speaker 1>Sun just eventually turning into a red giant and swallowing

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<v Speaker 1>the planet Earth. Yeah. Again, I would say, don't don't

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<v Speaker 1>lose any sleep over this, but it does exists as

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<v Speaker 1>the like the late game game ending Doom counter situation totally,

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<v Speaker 1>this is the point at which the game has to end,

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<v Speaker 1>or may have to end. Well, we'll get into some

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<v Speaker 1>of that presently. So I like to think of the

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<v Speaker 1>Sun is kind of a dot com erab business. It's

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<v Speaker 1>running on a huge influx of funding, but destined to

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<v Speaker 1>eventually burn out. Eventually the money is gonna gonna go away,

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<v Speaker 1>Eventually the energy is going to go away. So our

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<v Speaker 1>son has been going strong though as a business, as

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<v Speaker 1>a star, as the center of our solar system for

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<v Speaker 1>four point five billion years, and by most estimates it

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<v Speaker 1>has it has another five billion years left in the tank.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's got a lot of pivoting left to do. Yeah. Well, no,

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<v Speaker 1>well the pivots are key, because the pivots are or

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<v Speaker 1>what what we're gonna have to worry about. So when

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<v Speaker 1>the core runs out of hydrogen fuel, it's going to

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<v Speaker 1>contract under the weight of gravity. Uh So again, think

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<v Speaker 1>of like a bloated business that's suddenly the money is

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<v Speaker 1>not there to support it and it has to downsize. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>this is where the metaphor kind of becomes more difficult

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<v Speaker 1>to engage here, because, uh, some hydrogen infusion is still

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<v Speaker 1>gonna occur in the upper layers at this point, and

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<v Speaker 1>is the depleted core contracts, it heats up and this

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<v Speaker 1>it's up the upper layers of the Sun, causing them

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<v Speaker 1>to expand. As the outer layers expand, the radius of

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<v Speaker 1>the Sun will increase and it will become a red giant. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the radius of the red giant Sun would be a

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<v Speaker 1>hundred times what it is now, lying just beyond the

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<v Speaker 1>Earth's orbit. Some scientists have estimated that this would vaporize

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<v Speaker 1>our planet, but there's also a good chance that it

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<v Speaker 1>would push Earth in its moon outward after consuming mercury

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<v Speaker 1>and venus. Now, obviously there's there's again nothing to lose

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<v Speaker 1>sleep over here. Um, you know, five billion years, that's

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<v Speaker 1>longer than the Earth has existed, and the span of

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<v Speaker 1>the human species is virtually nothing in that well of time.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course there's a lot that can and will

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<v Speaker 1>happen before the Sun turns into a red giant. Long

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<v Speaker 1>before this happens, say in a mirror one point two

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<v Speaker 1>billion years, the Earth will grow hot enough to boil

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<v Speaker 1>the way our oceans. And then, after all this takes

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<v Speaker 1>place after the red giant phase, in nine point five

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<v Speaker 1>billion years, the Sun will collapse into a white dwarf

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<v Speaker 1>and the remaining dead world will continue to orbit around it. Eventually,

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<v Speaker 1>the white dwarf will go dark, and there'll be this

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<v Speaker 1>inevitable collision between it and another black dwarf, and this

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<v Speaker 1>will blast apart the remnants of our solar system. This

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<v Speaker 1>according to an excellent article in Forbes, of all places,

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<v Speaker 1>even Ethan seagulls how our solar system will end in

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<v Speaker 1>the far future. I actually read the same piece, and Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>Siegell says, when our son was newborn, this is this

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<v Speaker 1>is good to get some perspective on it. It only

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<v Speaker 1>had of the power that it has right now. But

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<v Speaker 1>the properties of planet Earth, the flora, the fauna, the ocean,

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<v Speaker 1>the atmosphere, all of that stuff has allowed us to

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<v Speaker 1>adapt right Also, the astrophysicist Robert Smith, not to be

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<v Speaker 1>confused with the frontman of cure Uh, says even just

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<v Speaker 1>the aging of the Sun will accelerate global warming to

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<v Speaker 1>a point where Earth's water just simply evaporates, as you

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned earlier, so there's not a whole lot we can

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<v Speaker 1>do about that. The atmosphere will be laden with water

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<v Speaker 1>vapor at that point, Uh, And it's going to turn

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<v Speaker 1>out like the water vapor will act like a greenhouse gas,

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<v Speaker 1>which we're obviously going to come back to later. In

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<v Speaker 1>this episode, the oceans will boil dry. But all right,

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<v Speaker 1>let's think really cosmic here for a second. Okay, let's

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<v Speaker 1>like zoom out. Let's pretend like we're Galactus from from

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<v Speaker 1>Fantastic four Comics or something here. Okay, what if we

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<v Speaker 1>could harness comets and asteroids so they gravitationally slingshot past Earth,

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<v Speaker 1>but move us into a wider orbit away from the Sun.

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<v Speaker 1>That might be possible in the future. Um, and I

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<v Speaker 1>believe on the Kardaship scale, that's like one of the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of ladder parts of the scale. Rights, if you

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<v Speaker 1>can harbor harness cosmic entities, well, I mean, first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>if you can harness all the power of the planet,

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<v Speaker 1>and then if you can harness all the power of

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<v Speaker 1>the Solar System. So yeah, just at that level, he

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<v Speaker 1>would consivably have the ability to to move the planet

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<v Speaker 1>around to find a new orbit for it in some

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<v Speaker 1>of the the more extreme cases. You know, I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>it argue that, you know, you could take the planet

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<v Speaker 1>and move it beyond the Solar System. Certainly, when you

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<v Speaker 1>get into those upper levels of K three and K four, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you're talking about godlike power, where on one level it

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<v Speaker 1>becomes easy to say, well, of course we could do

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<v Speaker 1>this because of the amount of power that we would have.

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<v Speaker 1>And then on the other you have you have to say,

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<v Speaker 1>what would we be if we had that much power,

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<v Speaker 1>if we had the power to harness uh all the

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<v Speaker 1>power of a solar system or or or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>scales beyond that, then what would what would our values be?

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<v Speaker 1>What would we need? Would we care about moving the Earth?

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<v Speaker 1>We'd just be like, well, let it burn. We've got

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<v Speaker 1>these crazy spaceships now. Well, another theoretical way to move

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<v Speaker 1>the Earth is to build a planetary sunshade. That would

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<v Speaker 1>have a similar effect, and it would move it out

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<v Speaker 1>into a further orbit. But hey, guess what, even if

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<v Speaker 1>we can do that, the red giant phase of the

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<v Speaker 1>sun is it's gonna get earth like. Even if we

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<v Speaker 1>can move it far enough out that we can somehow

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<v Speaker 1>use it to mitigate climate change, for instance, it's it's

0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.000
<v Speaker 1>not gonna matter that red giant is eventually going to

0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.200
<v Speaker 1>swallow us. Well, I'm not not by all. It depends

0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.000
<v Speaker 1>on how far out I guess you move it. Yeah,

0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:18.760
<v Speaker 1>but even if we escape, what's the world look like afterward?

0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:23.640
<v Speaker 1>As we're slouching towards extinction. Okay, so astrobiologist Jack O'Malley

0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.480
<v Speaker 1>James of Cornell University actually sketched out a sequence of

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.199
<v Speaker 1>extinctions over the course of four billion years. So here

0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.920
<v Speaker 1>we go, all right, at five hundred million years from now,

0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.319
<v Speaker 1>from right now, that's when the sun is going to

0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.400
<v Speaker 1>start getting hotter and c O two will be sucked

0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.080
<v Speaker 1>out of the Earth's atmosphere. That's gonna make all of

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:46.240
<v Speaker 1>the plants die off because they can't photosynthesize. Following that,

0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.360
<v Speaker 1>large vertebrates will go, then the small ones because there's

0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 1>no plants for them to eat. Then the only remaining

0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:57.400
<v Speaker 1>animals will be marine invertebrates along with microbes. Maybe some

0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.000
<v Speaker 1>insects that can eat dead plants will still be around,

0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.959
<v Speaker 1>but mostly the only creature, uh, the only creatures that

0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:05.599
<v Speaker 1>don't need to eat plants are gonna be able to

0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:10.760
<v Speaker 1>survive this. The last non microscopic remaining animals will probably

0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.400
<v Speaker 1>be those tube worms around the deep sea hydrothermal vents.

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Then at one billion years out from now, that's when

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:22.600
<v Speaker 1>the oceans start to boil. Uh. And then if that

0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 1>doesn't kill the microbes, the actual boiling of the oceans,

0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 1>the CEO two levels eventually will fall so low that

0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:34.160
<v Speaker 1>even microbial photosynthesis will end. Okay, then at seven point

0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.880
<v Speaker 1>five billion years out, that's when we're talking about the

0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Red Giant engulfing Earth and the Moon. But what if

0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:47.319
<v Speaker 1>Jupiter's moon tighten suddenly became warm enough for life to evolve.

0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.679
<v Speaker 1>So maybe that's the next place where there's going to

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.280
<v Speaker 1>be a habitable society. Well, it comes back around to

0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:58.440
<v Speaker 1>the the frequent argument you see from from various astrophysicists

0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.439
<v Speaker 1>and futurists, and that's just the the long long term

0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:06.080
<v Speaker 1>survival of the human race depends on us UH expanding

0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 1>beyond Earth absolutely. Now, some additional concerns for the future

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.680
<v Speaker 1>in any case of the far future. One is magnetosphere loss.

0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 1>So Earth's magnetosphere is essentially a magnetic bubble that protects

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.880
<v Speaker 1>the Earth from charge particles and plasma Earth's solid intercore

0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 1>and liquid outer core. This generates the field. Okay, it

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 1>generates the magnetosphere, and according to the dynamo theory, differences

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.920
<v Speaker 1>in temperature and composition in the two core regions drive

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 1>this powerful dynamo UH, emitting Earth's protective electromagnetic field. Now,

0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.360
<v Speaker 1>some scientists theorized in about two to three billion years,

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 1>the dynamo MD half, leading to the decay of the magnetosphere.

0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:54.000
<v Speaker 1>And remember again how essential this field is. It's absence

0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.840
<v Speaker 1>on planets such as Mars make colonization a challenge. Like

0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to imagine life being being able to to

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>really take a firm um hold of a planet that

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.680
<v Speaker 1>does not have a magnetosphere in place to shield life. Yeah,

0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.920
<v Speaker 1>protects us from so many of the hazards of space.

0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>It's one of the key aspects of the Goldilocks principle,

0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, one of the things that makes this planet

0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.080
<v Speaker 1>just right. And it's uh, it can be kind of

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 1>frightening or sobering to think about the fact that this

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 1>is not something that will last forever. But what about

0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 1>the Moon. I've seen a lot of people talk about

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 1>the moon is being like, well, if we could go

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.320
<v Speaker 1>anywhere if climate change gets too bad, let's just go

0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.680
<v Speaker 1>to the Moon. Well, um, yeah, that well, the Moon

0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.600
<v Speaker 1>is probably not a great option for for living on either. Uh.

0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.520
<v Speaker 1>But but it does play into another long term concern,

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 1>and that has to do with the perturbation effects. So

0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:53.680
<v Speaker 1>our large moon ensures climate stability by minimizing changes in

0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.000
<v Speaker 1>planetary tilt. If our planet didn't have a tilt, it

0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.040
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have seasons. Likewise, a severe tilt would result in

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.040
<v Speaker 1>extreme seasons. As we've discussed on the show before, the

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Moon is drifting away from Earth. Eventually, given you know,

0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 1>enough time, it will be just far enough away to

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 1>make a total solar eclipse impossible. Yeah, I've actually got

0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>some stats on that the Moon is moving away from

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 1>us at three point seven eight centimeters a year. Between

0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 1>one point five and four point five billion years from

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 1>now is when it's going to stop stabilizing our tilt. Yeah.

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 1>The so the Moon pulls on the Earth, and the

0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Earth orbits the Sun, resulting in a torque that causes

0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.440
<v Speaker 1>the Moon to move a little bit farther away from

0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.880
<v Speaker 1>the Earth and slow the planet's rotation. Rotation slows by

0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.720
<v Speaker 1>one point four milliseconds per century. But in fifty billion

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 1>years time, the Moon will orbit in forties, you know,

0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.080
<v Speaker 1>at a rate of forty seven days as opposed to

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.640
<v Speaker 1>the twenty seven point three days we know today, and

0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.560
<v Speaker 1>the twenty four hour Earth day will be forty seven

0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.240
<v Speaker 1>days long, and the Moon and Earth will then become

0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.440
<v Speaker 1>tidally locked as well. Luckily, we've already established that well

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.359
<v Speaker 1>before that fifty billion year mark, the Sun is gonna

0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.160
<v Speaker 1>eat both of them, so it doesn't really matter. Yeah,

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 1>and so the idea here is that, uh, once the

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.560
<v Speaker 1>stabilizing of the Earth's tilt stops, the poles are gonna

0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.520
<v Speaker 1>tip to a point where like the North and South

0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.840
<v Speaker 1>poles are going to be where the equator would have been.

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.320
<v Speaker 1>And this is going to cause obviously extraordinary climactic effects.

0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:25.879
<v Speaker 1>But it goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.959
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we have just the right moon for life

0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.600
<v Speaker 1>to be able to thrive here on Earth. So how

0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:36.840
<v Speaker 1>does this explain Transformers five? Then? Because in that movie,

0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 1>the planet Cybertron just parks itself right next to Earth

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.160
<v Speaker 1>and I think destroys the Moon. So I mean, clearly

0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.480
<v Speaker 1>they thought through the science on them. I assume they

0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 1>brought um just being silly here. Obviously those don't make

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.760
<v Speaker 1>a like a sense. But when this whole thing happens

0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.199
<v Speaker 1>with the tilt, some regions of the planet and it

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 1>will still be protected by the Sun, So it would

0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.000
<v Speaker 1>be possible to still live on the planet after this

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.080
<v Speaker 1>perturbation effect. So h What would be bad though, is

0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.920
<v Speaker 1>that some parts would dip to below a hundred degrees

0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.320
<v Speaker 1>celsius for part of the year. The only thing that

0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.920
<v Speaker 1>would be able to survive would be microbes inside these

0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.919
<v Speaker 1>cold trap caves. And then even two point two billion

0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 1>years after that, those caves then will suddenly become too hot.

0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.520
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, it's no win scenario. You have to This

0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 1>is when humans have to start living in the big pyramids.

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.760
<v Speaker 1>The last re doubt of William Hope Hodgens The Night Lands.

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Maybe that's what that hidden vault inside the pyramid was

0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.560
<v Speaker 1>that they just found recently. It's it's specifically designed for

0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>when the moon's moon stops affecting her tilt. I do

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 1>recommend any anyone who is interested in sort of uninhabitable

0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.320
<v Speaker 1>earth sci fi. William Hope Hodgins The Night Lands is

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:55.320
<v Speaker 1>fabulous of kind of challenging to read because it depicts

0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 1>uh an age in which humans will have to live

0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.040
<v Speaker 1>in these artificial structures UH on a dark earth like

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.359
<v Speaker 1>everything else is just cold and dark, but they're I

0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 1>believe they're using thermo thermal energy to to maintain themselves.

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.679
<v Speaker 1>In the book, Hodge and stuff is just fascinating, especially

0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.280
<v Speaker 1>when you consider the era that he lived and how

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.960
<v Speaker 1>far ahead. He was thinking, why don't we take a

0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.520
<v Speaker 1>break and then we come back. We can talk about

0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.800
<v Speaker 1>some just random concerns, things that we can't particularly track

0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 1>for how they might end life on Earth. Thank, alright,

0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.760
<v Speaker 1>we're back. So this first one is is a major threat.

0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Uh and it is a proven major threat to life

0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:37.080
<v Speaker 1>on Earth. We're talking about near Earth objects or ane os,

0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.280
<v Speaker 1>So impact events are possible factors in three out of

0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:45.240
<v Speaker 1>five major extinction events here on Earth. Space collisions occur

0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.840
<v Speaker 1>all the time, and most of them don't make too

0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.160
<v Speaker 1>much noise, or at least those that have occurred during

0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.560
<v Speaker 1>human history haven't. That's because in space no one can

0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.560
<v Speaker 1>hear you scream. Well, of course, the thing is Earth

0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:57.640
<v Speaker 1>is in space too, so we're counting the Earth colliding

0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.200
<v Speaker 1>with things, we're accounting the moon called lighting with things, etcetera.

0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.439
<v Speaker 1>But even when they do make noise, we've been very lucky.

0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:09.240
<v Speaker 1>For instance, consider Night to Munguska event, which hit a

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:13.720
<v Speaker 1>sparsely populated corner of Siberia rather than a major population center,

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.720
<v Speaker 1>and it's it's been pointed out that a mere four

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.400
<v Speaker 1>hours of planetary rotation would have placed the bull's eye

0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.280
<v Speaker 1>on densely populated St. Petersburg instead, So instead of having

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:28.359
<v Speaker 1>this just this devastating crater in this blast you know,

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.520
<v Speaker 1>heard over vast distances, instead of it occurring in the

0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.920
<v Speaker 1>middle of nowhere, what if it had occurred in in St. Petersburg?

0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.320
<v Speaker 1>What have it occurred in a major center of human population.

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.400
<v Speaker 1>And you like to think, like in these big budget

0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.280
<v Speaker 1>blockbuster disaster movies that like we'll be able to chart

0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.240
<v Speaker 1>the course of these things, will know that when they're coming,

0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.959
<v Speaker 1>and we'll evacuate cities. Right, But well, I mean this

0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:51.439
<v Speaker 1>is this is this is where he gets into something

0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.959
<v Speaker 1>I've talked about before, Like this is one of those

0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:59.440
<v Speaker 1>one of the few areas where where you can conceivably

0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.080
<v Speaker 1>save the world. Um, because the odds are that a

0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:05.960
<v Speaker 1>large INEO will come into play in the future and

0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.400
<v Speaker 1>humans will hopefully be in the technological and cultural position

0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.720
<v Speaker 1>to identify it, to track it and mitigate the situation.

0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.480
<v Speaker 1>There are a number of different um methods that have

0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:19.879
<v Speaker 1>been proposed for deflecting an incoming INEO, and they range

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:21.480
<v Speaker 1>from you know, blowing it up to just sort of

0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.520
<v Speaker 1>nudging it out of the way, to you know, harvesting it,

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. You send Bruce Willis and Steve BUSHEMI up there, Uh, Peter,

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.560
<v Speaker 1>storm are and problem solved. Well, hopefully, I think we're

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 1>getting to the stage we realize we only need to

0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:39.320
<v Speaker 1>send UM. But yeah, this is one of those few

0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.840
<v Speaker 1>areas where the work of NASA and other space agencies

0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:47.280
<v Speaker 1>their work to track ineos and and and eventually mitigate them.

0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.200
<v Speaker 1>This is one of the few areas where concentrated human

0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:54.280
<v Speaker 1>efforts can actually save the world. And of particular interest

0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.960
<v Speaker 1>here are asteroids that are six point two miles or

0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:01.120
<v Speaker 1>ten kilometers in diameter or larger. The These are extinction

0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 1>class ineos. So here's some stats that I found on this.

0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:09.760
<v Speaker 1>A third of those thousand mile wide asteroids that are

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:16.440
<v Speaker 1>hurtling across Earth's orbital path will eventually strike us. But luckily,

0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.600
<v Speaker 1>the rate of which that they will strike us is

0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.440
<v Speaker 1>one in every three hundred thousand years. Now. For instance,

0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:28.400
<v Speaker 1>similar to the Tunguska event in nine, a small one

0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.240
<v Speaker 1>way smaller than that crossed our orbit just six hours

0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.600
<v Speaker 1>after Earth had passed through. Uh. This thing had the

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:39.679
<v Speaker 1>kinetic impact force equivalent to a thousand nuclear bombs. So

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:44.280
<v Speaker 1>we've talked before, UH, specifically in our rods from God

0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:48.480
<v Speaker 1>episode about dropping basically like metal telephone polls from outer

0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.640
<v Speaker 1>space as weapons. Uh, the impact, just the basic kinetic

0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.879
<v Speaker 1>impact of something from outer space hitting the planet is considerable.

0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.240
<v Speaker 1>So something that small would be the equivalent of a

0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:03.080
<v Speaker 1>thousand US. Yeah. I remember in our Inner Interplanetary War

0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.920
<v Speaker 1>episode we talked about that a bit like having having

0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:10.119
<v Speaker 1>orbital superiority over a planet. It gives you just tremendous

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:14.800
<v Speaker 1>power without even having any explosives or nuclear devices, just

0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 1>the ability to drop things if you have those things

0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.320
<v Speaker 1>with you. I think we we concluded in that episode,

0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:24.920
<v Speaker 1>if you have a ship that is capable of interplanetary travel,

0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:28.000
<v Speaker 1>that alone is enough of a weapon to destroy an

0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:31.159
<v Speaker 1>entire planet. Yeah, just by crashing it into it. Yeah,

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:33.560
<v Speaker 1>it's not like Star Trek where the Enterprise like just

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.880
<v Speaker 1>like you know, like a like lands in the lake

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:41.360
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. Now, another area to concern getting away from

0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:43.760
<v Speaker 1>d e O s um it comes. It gets downd

0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 1>to the issue of Near Earth supernova. So this is

0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 1>another concern that's even more insidious in some ways because

0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:52.880
<v Speaker 1>there's not much of a way to stop them. Other

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:55.960
<v Speaker 1>other cosmic threats include gamma ray bursts caused by the

0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:57.920
<v Speaker 1>birth of a black hole or the collusion of two

0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:01.480
<v Speaker 1>neutron stars. It's been estimated did a ten second burst

0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:05.199
<v Speaker 1>originating within six thousand light years could deplete up to

0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:08.760
<v Speaker 1>half the planets ozone layer, and such an event might

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 1>have played in the Ordovician mass extinction. Okay, Well, another

0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:16.480
<v Speaker 1>figure that I read in the various articles that we

0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:20.679
<v Speaker 1>looked up for this Supposedly the Andromeda Galaxy is on

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:24.600
<v Speaker 1>a multi billion year collision course with the Milky Way

0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:27.560
<v Speaker 1>as well. So not only are we worrying about the planet,

0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:31.919
<v Speaker 1>but our entire galaxy is in trouble too. Yeah. Yeah, things,

0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:34.680
<v Speaker 1>things fall apart, and things have a way of colliding

0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.720
<v Speaker 1>together as well. But all of this stuff is either

0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:41.320
<v Speaker 1>random or a long way out, right, Like we've established,

0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:45.040
<v Speaker 1>like the asteroids, there's a pretty low percentage chance or

0:24:45.080 --> 0:24:47.679
<v Speaker 1>hopefully we'll be able to track it. And and that's

0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:50.960
<v Speaker 1>not random, but but it's it's it's not something that

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:53.439
<v Speaker 1>like we know for sure is going to happen the

0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Sun we know for sure, that's super far away. Yeah,

0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Like the long term issues are long term issues that

0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:02.359
<v Speaker 1>made be unavoidable, and we can't lose much sleep as

0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:05.159
<v Speaker 1>far as the random issues go. I do believe there

0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:09.399
<v Speaker 1>is a real need to focus on ineos, and I

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:12.399
<v Speaker 1>think that like basic planetary protection is essential there. But

0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:14.720
<v Speaker 1>still it's the kind of thing where, yes, someone could

0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 1>make an argument for well, we'll just let the next

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 1>generation figure that out. You know, you remember when we

0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:24.120
<v Speaker 1>were kids in the eighties and the Reggae administration developed

0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:27.600
<v Speaker 1>the Star Wars system. My first reaction was I confused

0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:30.240
<v Speaker 1>it with the movie Star Wars. My second was that

0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.679
<v Speaker 1>I assumed that it was about asteroids, that it was

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:36.840
<v Speaker 1>the whole defense system was designed to protect us from asteroids.

0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:39.760
<v Speaker 1>Turns out, no, not at all, to perfect us from us. Yes,

0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:43.119
<v Speaker 1>it turns out, and we'll get to that threat. So

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:47.280
<v Speaker 1>what about shorter term concerns, Like, let's narrow this down right,

0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:51.639
<v Speaker 1>like when are we going to have to get off Earth? Basically?

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:57.280
<v Speaker 1>So here's some good news. Uh, Mammal species tend to

0:25:57.359 --> 0:26:01.080
<v Speaker 1>only last about a million years on average anyway, So

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:04.600
<v Speaker 1>we as human beings have already had two hundred thousand years,

0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:08.560
<v Speaker 1>So we've got eight hundred thousand years left. That's pretty good, right,

0:26:08.640 --> 0:26:14.240
<v Speaker 1>That's more than we've already had. So yeah, well that

0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:17.439
<v Speaker 1>of course is not counting in counting on the various

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:21.680
<v Speaker 1>ways that we are working at our own destruction exactly. Uh.

0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:25.639
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Hawking, though recently he actually gave an interview in

0:26:25.640 --> 0:26:27.560
<v Speaker 1>the last couple of years talking about this stuff. He

0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:30.960
<v Speaker 1>is a proponent of us freeing ourselves from other Earth,

0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 1>as he calls it. And he says, quote, it will

0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 1>be difficult enough to avoid disaster on planet Earth in

0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:40.679
<v Speaker 1>the next hundred years, let alone the next thousand or million.

0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:42.200
<v Speaker 1>All right, So we all of a sudden went from

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:45.080
<v Speaker 1>like billions of years to the next hundred years as

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:49.000
<v Speaker 1>being like potential problem. And he says, this is either

0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 1>nuclear weapons or the aging sun acceleration and and this

0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.760
<v Speaker 1>isn't the Sun swallowing the Earth. We're talking about global

0:26:55.760 --> 0:26:59.920
<v Speaker 1>warming here. And as we've already discussed, Hawking says, if

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 1>man doesn't make the planet uninhabitable or the sun, then

0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 1>we're going to encounter a supernova or an asteroid or

0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:08.159
<v Speaker 1>even a black hole. We didn't even touch on black holes.

0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 1>So all right, let's talk about it. Climate change. Some

0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:17.520
<v Speaker 1>starter facts here. I didn't know this. Eighteen eight is

0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:21.840
<v Speaker 1>when scientists first started keeping track of global temperature logs.

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:25.560
<v Speaker 1>Last year two thousand sixteen. We're recording this in two

0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:29.240
<v Speaker 1>thousand seventeen. Last year was the hottest year the world

0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:34.520
<v Speaker 1>has seen since scientists started recording global temperature logs. Now. Overall,

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:38.600
<v Speaker 1>the planet has warmed two point three degrees fahrenheit or

0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:43.520
<v Speaker 1>one point to six degrees celsius in that time. Let's

0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:46.520
<v Speaker 1>try to keep those numbers in mind as like a

0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:50.240
<v Speaker 1>point of perspective as we're looking towards the future. And

0:27:50.240 --> 0:27:53.160
<v Speaker 1>I want to talk briefly to as we get into

0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:57.400
<v Speaker 1>this about climate change. As I guess I would define

0:27:57.400 --> 0:28:00.720
<v Speaker 1>it as like a rhetorical communication problem. Is this article

0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 1>in the Atlantic where Robinson Meyer argues there's three shifts

0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:07.920
<v Speaker 1>that are going on right now, primarily here in the USA,

0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:12.040
<v Speaker 1>but globally as well with climate change that make it

0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:15.600
<v Speaker 1>hard to communicate. The first is that the consequences of

0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:19.560
<v Speaker 1>climate change are severe and devastating. We've got a lot

0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:22.840
<v Speaker 1>of examples that we've given so many examples on this

0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:25.920
<v Speaker 1>show before. Uh we're talking about mega droughts, We're talking

0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:29.320
<v Speaker 1>about sweltering summers, or the destruction of the Great Barrier reef,

0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:34.960
<v Speaker 1>among others. Secondly, some people are trying to address climate

0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:38.680
<v Speaker 1>change with things like solar and wind as energy or

0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:41.720
<v Speaker 1>say electric cars as a way to attempt to stabilize

0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the amount of carbon that's released in the atmosphere. But

0:28:45.600 --> 0:28:48.840
<v Speaker 1>we have to acknowledge that, as of this recording, the

0:28:48.920 --> 0:28:50.880
<v Speaker 1>country that Robert and I live in, the United States

0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:55.400
<v Speaker 1>of America is undermining climate policy because we've abandoned the

0:28:55.440 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Paris Agreement. Yeah, there's a there's an episode that Joe

0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:02.920
<v Speaker 1>and I recorded few months back back titled Science Communication Breakdown.

0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:06.000
<v Speaker 1>And now we get into into this topic a fair amount,

0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:08.160
<v Speaker 1>like getting into the idea of like, Okay, we have

0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:12.320
<v Speaker 1>we we have the science of climate change, and yet

0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:16.240
<v Speaker 1>we have a large portion of the population that that

0:29:16.360 --> 0:29:18.800
<v Speaker 1>denies it or or is an opposition to it. Why

0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:22.240
<v Speaker 1>does that occur? Why has this topic become politicized when

0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:25.800
<v Speaker 1>it is a matter of scientific consensus. So I would

0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:28.680
<v Speaker 1>I would refer listeners back to that episode if if

0:29:28.680 --> 0:29:32.080
<v Speaker 1>you want a more like in depth tackling of that

0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:35.719
<v Speaker 1>of that issue. Yeah, I think so, what we're facing

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:39.720
<v Speaker 1>here are two opposed visions of the future, right, and

0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:42.920
<v Speaker 1>neither are really scientific in nature. One is economic, one

0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 1>is political in there in opposition to one another. So

0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:49.280
<v Speaker 1>all of this leads us to this article that actually,

0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:51.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, we talked at the beginning about the impetus

0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:53.160
<v Speaker 1>for doing this episode. I was unaware of this, but

0:29:53.200 --> 0:29:55.960
<v Speaker 1>it just came out this July in New York magazine.

0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:59.719
<v Speaker 1>It was written by David Wallace Wells, and the articles

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:04.000
<v Speaker 1>type was the Uninhabitable Earth, and in this he argued

0:30:04.040 --> 0:30:07.760
<v Speaker 1>that parts of Earth will become uninhabitable by the end

0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:13.920
<v Speaker 1>of this century. Many climate scientists and science communicators strongly

0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:15.959
<v Speaker 1>disagreed with him on this, and they said that this

0:30:16.040 --> 0:30:19.640
<v Speaker 1>was a doomsday scenario, it wasn't realistic, and that it

0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:22.800
<v Speaker 1>wasn't supported by evidence. They also said that his article

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:26.440
<v Speaker 1>doesn't identify his sources either. Now I want to step

0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:29.120
<v Speaker 1>back for a second. I read through his whole article

0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:32.280
<v Speaker 1>and a number of rebuttals to his article. Okay, I'll

0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 1>provide my thoughts later, but he definitely cites sources, and

0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:38.880
<v Speaker 1>he provides links to a lot of statistics that he

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:42.560
<v Speaker 1>uses throughout the piece. Now, either he added those after

0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:47.280
<v Speaker 1>the criticism, or his detractors are exaggerating their complaints. Uh.

0:30:47.320 --> 0:30:50.360
<v Speaker 1>I didn't fact check every one of his sources, but

0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:53.760
<v Speaker 1>it looks like he at least attempted to provide some

0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:58.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of logical evidence for his claims. Well basic Based

0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:00.800
<v Speaker 1>on what I was looking at, it seems like a

0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:04.200
<v Speaker 1>lot of the complaints were basically making the charge that

0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:06.760
<v Speaker 1>you were you're presenting this a is U is a

0:31:06.840 --> 0:31:10.640
<v Speaker 1>scare piece that you're and that that is not how

0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:14.720
<v Speaker 1>one needs to communicate the topic. Uh. And and based

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:19.800
<v Speaker 1>on previous research for the Communicy Science Communication Breakdown episode,

0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:23.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I I can agree with that, like that

0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:25.920
<v Speaker 1>does not seem to necessarily be the way to reach

0:31:26.480 --> 0:31:29.520
<v Speaker 1>new minds about the topic. Uh, it's just I mean,

0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:31.400
<v Speaker 1>it could be useful, I guess as a rallying cry

0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:34.760
<v Speaker 1>for people who are already convinced. And and maybe that's

0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 1>the prime purpose of the peace I mean, one has

0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:40.520
<v Speaker 1>to take the readership into mind here, like where where

0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:42.920
<v Speaker 1>was the article published? And who are the the intended

0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:46.480
<v Speaker 1>readers of the piece? Yeah, so the article itself is

0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:49.680
<v Speaker 1>problematic for climate scientists, and and you know, because of

0:31:49.720 --> 0:31:52.400
<v Speaker 1>the reasons we outlined above, obviously, but also because they're

0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:55.720
<v Speaker 1>trying to be very very careful about how they communicate

0:31:55.760 --> 0:31:58.720
<v Speaker 1>climate change with the public. They want to make sure

0:31:58.920 --> 0:32:02.280
<v Speaker 1>that the facts that are resented are absolutely indisputable. And

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:07.280
<v Speaker 1>they also have research that shows that we respond better

0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:12.080
<v Speaker 1>to hopeful messages instead of fatalistic messages. So that's along

0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:13.960
<v Speaker 1>the lines of I think what you and Joe covered

0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:17.240
<v Speaker 1>in Communication Breakdown. This is my take on it. Okay,

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:22.400
<v Speaker 1>I would argue that climate change communicators they're facing a

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:26.160
<v Speaker 1>branding problem. And this is just from my experience working

0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:30.600
<v Speaker 1>on this show and doing science communication. There's so much

0:32:30.640 --> 0:32:35.400
<v Speaker 1>evidence for climate change that we've encountered just while we've

0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:38.800
<v Speaker 1>been researching other topics on this show, not even intending

0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:42.640
<v Speaker 1>to talk about climate show. Yeah, when we did our

0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:44.640
<v Speaker 1>small Barred episode, it was all over the place. And

0:32:44.680 --> 0:32:48.320
<v Speaker 1>there when we've talked tomorrow Heart about coral reef biology,

0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:50.360
<v Speaker 1>it was all over there. It's it just it keeps

0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:54.440
<v Speaker 1>coming up every time I'm presented with that evidence. It's

0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:58.040
<v Speaker 1>even more convincing. Some people that just have a knee

0:32:58.120 --> 0:33:02.360
<v Speaker 1>jerk response the minute they heard they hear this terminology

0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:07.400
<v Speaker 1>climate change, right, they just assume that it's automatically disinformation

0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:11.960
<v Speaker 1>for some reason. Now, if you just present the evidence

0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:16.840
<v Speaker 1>of the impact, they seem to believe that, but you

0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:19.440
<v Speaker 1>don't attach those terms to it. It's like, for some

0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:22.320
<v Speaker 1>reason it has a branding problem in rhetoric. This is

0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:24.960
<v Speaker 1>what might be called an ethos problem. There seems to

0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:28.320
<v Speaker 1>be a negative connection between the terminology and the quality

0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:32.880
<v Speaker 1>of its character. And that might be because of doomsayers

0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:36.840
<v Speaker 1>like Wallace Wells, right, because of scare pieces like this,

0:33:37.480 --> 0:33:39.680
<v Speaker 1>which which again I can see where a scare piece

0:33:39.720 --> 0:33:43.280
<v Speaker 1>would be would be beneficial to people who are you

0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:47.880
<v Speaker 1>know who who don't deny the scientific consensus, that that

0:33:48.360 --> 0:33:51.520
<v Speaker 1>just needs something that maybe to is a rallying cry,

0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:54.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, as a reminder of what's at stake. Um.

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:58.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't think we should sugarcoat topics. But again,

0:33:58.080 --> 0:33:59.960
<v Speaker 1>the argument is there that if you're looking to reach

0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:02.720
<v Speaker 1>new minds, if you're looking to to connect with people

0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:06.680
<v Speaker 1>who are in a state of denial or doubt, then

0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:09.520
<v Speaker 1>this is not the best tactic. Well, let's go through

0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 1>his piece. Uh and well, I'm I've outlined his claims

0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:17.360
<v Speaker 1>here along with the counter arguments against them. I do

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 1>want to cite him specifically here. This is a quote

0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 1>from the article. He says. This article is the result

0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:27.560
<v Speaker 1>of dozens of interviews in exchanges with climatologists and researchers

0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:32.000
<v Speaker 1>in related fields, and reflects hundreds of scientific papers on

0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:35.440
<v Speaker 1>the subject of climate change. Later on, he says, it

0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:38.400
<v Speaker 1>is a portrait of our best understanding of where the

0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:44.399
<v Speaker 1>planet is heading absent aggressive action. Again, my personal take

0:34:44.440 --> 0:34:46.480
<v Speaker 1>on this, I read through the whole piece. I'll say

0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:48.440
<v Speaker 1>that outside of the problems that we're going to outline

0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.760
<v Speaker 1>with his evidence, the pros itself reads like a rant.

0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:54.480
<v Speaker 1>So along the lines of like just saying like, oh,

0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:57.080
<v Speaker 1>this seems like a scare piece, it sort of reads

0:34:57.120 --> 0:35:00.279
<v Speaker 1>like that, it's it's difficult to understand it, and he

0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:03.719
<v Speaker 1>bombards you with information in this way that just isn't persuasive,

0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:06.799
<v Speaker 1>And I think that in and of itself is problematic

0:35:06.920 --> 0:35:10.200
<v Speaker 1>if the goal is to change reader's minds. So he says,

0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:15.200
<v Speaker 1>the likely warming expectation from a scenario is presented by

0:35:15.200 --> 0:35:19.120
<v Speaker 1>the United Nations inter Governmental Panel on Climate Change, and

0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:23.480
<v Speaker 1>this was in now. They say we're looking at somewhere

0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 1>between a two point six and a four point eight

0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:32.240
<v Speaker 1>degrees celsiust shift by the time we reach one somewhere

0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:38.440
<v Speaker 1>between that period of time. Now, I think it's worth

0:35:38.440 --> 0:35:42.799
<v Speaker 1>noting that Wallace Wells argues the upper end of the

0:35:42.840 --> 0:35:46.719
<v Speaker 1>probability curve actually runs as high as eight degrees. So

0:35:46.800 --> 0:35:50.800
<v Speaker 1>he goes way higher than this. This study that he cites,

0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:53.279
<v Speaker 1>they say highest is four point eight. He goes all

0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:56.359
<v Speaker 1>the way up to eight degrees. That's way higher than

0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:59.719
<v Speaker 1>their prediction the Paris Climate Accords. Just to give you,

0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:03.840
<v Speaker 1>like again, like some perspective here. All they're trying to

0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:06.800
<v Speaker 1>do is get us to the point where we only

0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:10.600
<v Speaker 1>go up by two degrees in that period of time.

0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:14.000
<v Speaker 1>So you see just how much of a difference there

0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:17.400
<v Speaker 1>is in these seem like relatively small numbers, right, two

0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:21.680
<v Speaker 1>for eight, But there's a lot. There's a lot there now.

0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Wallace Wells also starts by saying that the sea level

0:36:25.320 --> 0:36:28.280
<v Speaker 1>rise isn't the worst of our concerns with global warming.

0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:31.479
<v Speaker 1>This is because there there's a lot of attention paid

0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:34.520
<v Speaker 1>to sea level rise earlier in this year in scientific articles.

0:36:34.840 --> 0:36:37.960
<v Speaker 1>He says, yes, cities will drown, but other parts of

0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:41.640
<v Speaker 1>the world will become uninhabitable by the end of the century. Quote,

0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:45.120
<v Speaker 1>most of the scientists I spoke with assume we're gonna

0:36:45.160 --> 0:36:50.200
<v Speaker 1>lose Miami and Bangladesh within the century, even if we

0:36:50.280 --> 0:36:54.160
<v Speaker 1>stop burning fossil fuels within the next decade. He also

0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:57.800
<v Speaker 1>says that cities like Karachi and Kolkata would be so

0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:01.360
<v Speaker 1>hot that they would be close to inhabitable, and he

0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:05.160
<v Speaker 1>wonders if this is why we have this obsession with

0:37:05.200 --> 0:37:08.840
<v Speaker 1>apocalyptic fiction, right all the zombie movies or Mad Max

0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:12.000
<v Speaker 1>movies and the world scenarios. He says, maybe this is

0:37:12.040 --> 0:37:17.120
<v Speaker 1>a collective result of displaced climate anxiety. Okay, I know

0:37:17.280 --> 0:37:18.840
<v Speaker 1>we're hitting you with a lot of heavy stuff. So

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:22.600
<v Speaker 1>here's a fun aside. I'm doing the research on this yesterday,

0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:24.840
<v Speaker 1>and I've been listening to a lot of led Zeppelin

0:37:24.880 --> 0:37:26.960
<v Speaker 1>in the last week because I saw that Thor Ragnarok

0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:32.000
<v Speaker 1>movie and they play immigrant song and yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:35.480
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's prime. So I'm listening to led Zeppelin

0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:39.080
<v Speaker 1>and while I'm prepping these notes here when the levy

0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:42.640
<v Speaker 1>breaks comes on. That was that was pretty eerie, like

0:37:42.719 --> 0:37:45.920
<v Speaker 1>worrying about flooding and all that. Uh, and then like

0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:49.200
<v Speaker 1>the soundtrack just kicked in there. All right. Back to

0:37:49.239 --> 0:37:52.680
<v Speaker 1>the study, he also says the world's perma frost is

0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:56.840
<v Speaker 1>going to send its methane into our atmosphere as it melts,

0:37:56.920 --> 0:38:00.399
<v Speaker 1>and that is going to accelerate the planet's warming in

0:38:00.440 --> 0:38:02.799
<v Speaker 1>the in just the next couple of decades to come.

0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:06.400
<v Speaker 1>He uses the thawing of the ground around this fall

0:38:06.520 --> 0:38:09.000
<v Speaker 1>barred vault as an example. We talked about this in

0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:13.440
<v Speaker 1>our small part example. Now he also says that perma

0:38:13.480 --> 0:38:19.000
<v Speaker 1>frost contains one point eight trillion tons of carbon. That

0:38:19.120 --> 0:38:22.040
<v Speaker 1>is more than twice as much as what is currently

0:38:22.120 --> 0:38:25.680
<v Speaker 1>suspended in Earth's atmosphere. Okay, so that's his argument about

0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:30.840
<v Speaker 1>the perma frost. His detractors say, alright, yes, perma frost

0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:35.560
<v Speaker 1>will emit methane, and yes, methane is a potent greenhouse gas,

0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:40.680
<v Speaker 1>but scientists don't actually think that that much is going

0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:43.160
<v Speaker 1>to escape in this century. There was a study that

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:46.799
<v Speaker 1>was published in twenty that found that perma frost melt

0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:51.240
<v Speaker 1>would only release about five to fift pent of its carbon,

0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:53.680
<v Speaker 1>and that that would be in the form of carbon

0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:58.920
<v Speaker 1>dioxide and not methane. So that's substantial. It's still something

0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:02.120
<v Speaker 1>we need to worry about. It's not as dire. Wallace

0:39:02.120 --> 0:39:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Wells says, Actually, methane is thirty four times as powerful

0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:09.000
<v Speaker 1>as c O two, so we should keep that in mind.

0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Another example that he brings up in his piece. Do

0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:15.360
<v Speaker 1>you remember earlier this year when the um there was

0:39:15.400 --> 0:39:17.800
<v Speaker 1>that crack in the ice shelf. I think it started

0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:19.839
<v Speaker 1>in May and then it broke off and calved off

0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:22.799
<v Speaker 1>into this like massive iceberg. He used that as an

0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 1>example as well, along the lines of the perma frost um.

0:39:26.239 --> 0:39:29.920
<v Speaker 1>He also said that satellite data shows that the planet

0:39:29.960 --> 0:39:32.840
<v Speaker 1>has warmed twice as fast as we thought it would.

0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:36.720
<v Speaker 1>He adds a qualifier though afterwards he says that quote

0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:41.319
<v Speaker 1>the underlying story was considerably less alarming than the headlines.

0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:43.560
<v Speaker 1>This was one of the things that he had to

0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:46.680
<v Speaker 1>update in his article afterwards after so many people complained.

0:39:46.680 --> 0:39:48.840
<v Speaker 1>There's a footnote at the end of the article that

0:39:48.920 --> 0:39:51.080
<v Speaker 1>lets you know all the things that were changed afterwards.

0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:53.719
<v Speaker 1>So while he warns us about the satellite data, he

0:39:53.760 --> 0:39:56.560
<v Speaker 1>also kind of backs up and he says, I know,

0:39:56.680 --> 0:40:00.719
<v Speaker 1>like that was kind of scaremongering. Uh. In actuality, it

0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:04.520
<v Speaker 1>seems like those satellite models have tracked closer to what

0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:09.760
<v Speaker 1>we predicted. He also says carbon dioxide levels, so remember

0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:11.920
<v Speaker 1>earlier they said, oh, it's gonna be carbon dioxide instead

0:40:11.960 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 1>of methane. Well, he said, carbon dioxide levels, if they

0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:17.719
<v Speaker 1>go up, they're actually going to depress our brain functions

0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:22.360
<v Speaker 1>on a global level. Other scientists argue back and they say,

0:40:22.400 --> 0:40:25.040
<v Speaker 1>this seems like it will only be an indoor problem,

0:40:25.120 --> 0:40:30.040
<v Speaker 1>not an outdoor problem. I don't know. I'm not a climatologist. Now,

0:40:30.200 --> 0:40:34.239
<v Speaker 1>in his own defense, Wallace Wells argues he didn't want

0:40:34.239 --> 0:40:36.719
<v Speaker 1>to be misleading in his portrayal of the research, but

0:40:37.080 --> 0:40:40.720
<v Speaker 1>he ran his peace by climate experts, and he wanted

0:40:40.760 --> 0:40:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the piece to survey worst case scenarios because he believes quote,

0:40:45.160 --> 0:40:49.400
<v Speaker 1>the public does not appreciate the unlikely but still possible

0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:52.560
<v Speaker 1>dangers of climate change. So that seems like he's he's

0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:55.200
<v Speaker 1>making his sort of rhetorical purpose clear here, right, Like

0:40:55.280 --> 0:41:00.160
<v Speaker 1>he he acknowledges that he was, uh somewhat being extremist. Right.

0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:03.799
<v Speaker 1>His main concerns in the conclusion of the piece are

0:41:04.200 --> 0:41:06.200
<v Speaker 1>that climate change is going to lead to a threat

0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:09.200
<v Speaker 1>to our food supplies in the next hundred years. There's

0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:11.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be a risk of increased violence as temperature

0:41:11.960 --> 0:41:17.399
<v Speaker 1>goes up, and that fears of long dormant viruses awakening

0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:20.680
<v Speaker 1>from the Arctic permafrost will come true. This is a

0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 1>plot of Fortitude, the TV show that I keep talking

0:41:24.200 --> 0:41:26.480
<v Speaker 1>about on here, that that's one of the things that

0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:29.320
<v Speaker 1>happens there. Because they're on small bard. Uh He also

0:41:29.360 --> 0:41:34.200
<v Speaker 1>mentions unbreathable air and the danger of extreme heat combined

0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:36.960
<v Speaker 1>with high humidity. Now, this is something I've never heard

0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:40.040
<v Speaker 1>of before, but it's related to climate change, something called

0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:43.560
<v Speaker 1>the wet bulb temperature concept. Have you heard of this?

0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:47.440
<v Speaker 1>What it relates to the human body's ability to cool itself? Right, Yeah,

0:41:47.520 --> 0:41:51.560
<v Speaker 1>exactly so. Uh. The idea here is that we cool

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:54.759
<v Speaker 1>our skin by sweating, right, which is how we stay

0:41:54.800 --> 0:41:57.640
<v Speaker 1>alive in the worst heat. I can tell you, Uh.

0:41:57.760 --> 0:42:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Here in Atlanta it was like almost eighty agrees yesterday

0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:05.040
<v Speaker 1>in November, and I walked home two miles. I swept

0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:07.880
<v Speaker 1>quite a bit. Okay, that was me staying alive in

0:42:07.920 --> 0:42:11.880
<v Speaker 1>that heat. When you get above thirty three degrees celsius

0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:18.040
<v Speaker 1>or nine degrees fahrenheit, our threshold for heat stroke comes up,

0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:21.239
<v Speaker 1>and that can be fatal. Based on that I p

0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 1>c c worst case scenario that he's citing, a third

0:42:25.560 --> 0:42:29.000
<v Speaker 1>of the US population would be facing a day or

0:42:29.200 --> 0:42:33.720
<v Speaker 1>more of such dangerous conditions. The typical summer day would

0:42:33.719 --> 0:42:38.319
<v Speaker 1>exceed this heat stroke threshold. So that's concerning, Yeah, I mean,

0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:42.520
<v Speaker 1>especially when you take into account the limited ability of

0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:48.240
<v Speaker 1>of various people, great portions of the population to stay cool. Yeah, exactly. Now,

0:42:48.440 --> 0:42:51.560
<v Speaker 1>the terms weird, right, wet bulb temperature will it turns

0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:54.440
<v Speaker 1>out that it comes from wrapping a thermometer in a

0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:58.560
<v Speaker 1>damp sock. The idea there is that that will actually

0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:04.040
<v Speaker 1>reflect both heat and humidity simultaneously, and Wallace Wells argues

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:08.279
<v Speaker 1>in his peace that the resulting dehydration that comes as

0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:10.399
<v Speaker 1>an effect of all of this is going to cause

0:43:10.520 --> 0:43:15.600
<v Speaker 1>chronic kidney disease across our entire culture. So we're just

0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:20.799
<v Speaker 1>in cascading effects here as Yeah, okay, a little bit

0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:25.080
<v Speaker 1>more about this. His detractors say that the post climate

0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:27.920
<v Speaker 1>change world is actually gonna look a lot like the

0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:31.200
<v Speaker 1>world currently looks like, except it's going to be more

0:43:31.320 --> 0:43:34.799
<v Speaker 1>unequal and more impoverished. So essentially they're saying, we're not

0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:37.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, a hundred years from now, the world isn't

0:43:37.160 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 1>going to be uninhabitable, it's just gonna be less equitable. Uh.

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:45.719
<v Speaker 1>They argue that he glosses over reasons why climate advocates

0:43:45.719 --> 0:43:48.680
<v Speaker 1>actually have some hope. They also make one important point

0:43:49.000 --> 0:43:51.840
<v Speaker 1>his articles citation of those I P c C numbers.

0:43:51.880 --> 0:43:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Not only are they like way higher, but he also

0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:59.000
<v Speaker 1>doesn't necessarily clarify between celsius and fahrenheit in his story,

0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:03.640
<v Speaker 1>and there's huge discrepancies there. More likely, though, because of

0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:07.000
<v Speaker 1>trends like the Paris Climate Agreement, human society will bend

0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:11.960
<v Speaker 1>emissions downward without hitting these worst case scenarios that he's outlined.

0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Even in an email with The Washington Post, Wallace Wells

0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:19.160
<v Speaker 1>conceded the most likely scenario is about a two point

0:44:19.239 --> 0:44:22.880
<v Speaker 1>five to three degree celsius change by the end of

0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:26.919
<v Speaker 1>the century. Since eighteen eighty we've only seen a one

0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:30.280
<v Speaker 1>point to six degree celsius changed, so that's still pretty

0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:32.719
<v Speaker 1>significant if you think about it. So even if we're

0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:36.239
<v Speaker 1>able to drop carbon emissions to zero tomorrow, like if

0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:38.840
<v Speaker 1>we made waived a magic wand right and all of

0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:41.800
<v Speaker 1>a sudden, all cars, all all of our technologies stopped

0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:44.880
<v Speaker 1>emitting carbon, that's obviously not going to happen. We would

0:44:44.920 --> 0:44:49.120
<v Speaker 1>still be dealing with climate change for centuries afterward. So

0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:52.160
<v Speaker 1>our only option at this point is to adapt to

0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:55.200
<v Speaker 1>it as painlessly as possible. And how do we address

0:44:55.239 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 1>this well. One proposal is to develop technology that takes

0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:03.000
<v Speaker 1>CEO two out of our atmosphere to dampen the greenhouse

0:45:03.000 --> 0:45:06.520
<v Speaker 1>effect that seems interesting but also problematic to me. Right,

0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:10.200
<v Speaker 1>It's like the technology got us in this problem in

0:45:10.239 --> 0:45:13.080
<v Speaker 1>the first place, right, and it will build more of

0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:16.280
<v Speaker 1>it and we'll use that to sap out the bad stuff.

0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:18.880
<v Speaker 1>But then what will be the repercussions of that, Well,

0:45:18.880 --> 0:45:21.600
<v Speaker 1>it's one of those scenarios where you imagine that a

0:45:21.680 --> 0:45:23.680
<v Speaker 1>little more hot water because the bath is too cold,

0:45:23.719 --> 0:45:26.200
<v Speaker 1>a little more cold water because the bath is too hot,

0:45:26.239 --> 0:45:29.040
<v Speaker 1>and then eventually the bath is overflown. So let's try

0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:31.839
<v Speaker 1>to ground this in some more recent studies that are

0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:34.440
<v Speaker 1>maybe a little more closer how things are going to

0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:36.920
<v Speaker 1>shake out in the next hundred years. A study published

0:45:36.960 --> 0:45:40.040
<v Speaker 1>in the June issue of Science by the Climate Impact Lab.

0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:43.080
<v Speaker 1>They argued that actually, climate change is going to have

0:45:43.200 --> 0:45:47.239
<v Speaker 1>an economic impact. First, the poor are going to get

0:45:47.280 --> 0:45:50.800
<v Speaker 1>poorer and the rich are going to get richer. Great, uh,

0:45:50.840 --> 0:45:55.280
<v Speaker 1>this will impoverish the poorest communities in the United States first,

0:45:55.320 --> 0:45:59.080
<v Speaker 1>and the outline that the south, the Southwest, and communities

0:45:59.120 --> 0:46:01.080
<v Speaker 1>along the Gulf coasts are going to be the ones

0:46:01.120 --> 0:46:05.680
<v Speaker 1>that are hit the hardest. Cities and coastal suburbs, however,

0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:10.160
<v Speaker 1>are going to just get richer. Contributing to this is

0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:13.239
<v Speaker 1>that ocean rise that he addressed at the beginning. We're

0:46:13.239 --> 0:46:16.240
<v Speaker 1>looking at an ocean rise of two to three feet

0:46:16.320 --> 0:46:19.840
<v Speaker 1>by the year twenty one. That could displace up to

0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:24.480
<v Speaker 1>four million people around the world. So essentially, sell your

0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:28.520
<v Speaker 1>beachfront property right because it's gonna be underwater soon. Another

0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:32.840
<v Speaker 1>study out of Columbia University's Program on Climate Science, Awareness

0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:36.960
<v Speaker 1>and Solutions finds that summers in general are becoming hotter

0:46:37.280 --> 0:46:42.720
<v Speaker 1>than the average recorded between nineteen fifty one in nineteen eighty.

0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:46.279
<v Speaker 1>This will lead to increased heat in the subtropics, it's

0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:49.400
<v Speaker 1>going to cause more droughts, increased floods, and it's going

0:46:49.440 --> 0:46:52.279
<v Speaker 1>to start impacting our human health. You know, like when

0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:54.640
<v Speaker 1>you you look up the weather and you see like

0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:58.560
<v Speaker 1>those those warnings it's like extreme air quality or something

0:46:58.600 --> 0:47:02.360
<v Speaker 1>like that, those orange air quality warnings a lot here. Yeah,

0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:04.160
<v Speaker 1>I think we're going to be looking at more of

0:47:04.200 --> 0:47:09.080
<v Speaker 1>those from what this sounds like, and then conservative estimates,

0:47:09.160 --> 0:47:12.279
<v Speaker 1>even like the most conservative estimates about climate changers, saying

0:47:12.320 --> 0:47:15.239
<v Speaker 1>we're looking at more droughts across our land, as well

0:47:15.239 --> 0:47:19.279
<v Speaker 1>as more natural disasters things like storm surges, wildfires, and

0:47:19.360 --> 0:47:23.760
<v Speaker 1>heat waves. So in terms of our larger question here,

0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:28.319
<v Speaker 1>when will the Earth become uninhabitable? From a climate change perspective,

0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:32.080
<v Speaker 1>it all seems to come down to how high the

0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:36.400
<v Speaker 1>temperature will rise and how quickly within the next hundred years.

0:47:36.440 --> 0:47:39.360
<v Speaker 1>But it does seem like there are current parts of

0:47:39.400 --> 0:47:43.000
<v Speaker 1>the world that are inhabited that will no longer be habitable.

0:47:43.040 --> 0:47:46.040
<v Speaker 1>But the good news again is that there are efforts

0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:49.560
<v Speaker 1>in place. There are plans in place that can mitigate

0:47:49.600 --> 0:47:53.560
<v Speaker 1>the effects, that can slow it down if we have

0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:56.160
<v Speaker 1>the willingness to stick to them and to and to

0:47:56.239 --> 0:48:00.040
<v Speaker 1>insist that they be inactive. Yeah, exactly. So there's a

0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:03.200
<v Speaker 1>matter of policy involved here. There's a matter of communication.

0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:05.480
<v Speaker 1>I I definitely think go back and listen to the

0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:08.640
<v Speaker 1>episode that Robert and Joe did on Science Communication Breakdowns,

0:48:08.640 --> 0:48:12.240
<v Speaker 1>because I think that is crucial right now with this stuff,

0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:15.680
<v Speaker 1>because hey, the sun thing, that's a billion plus years

0:48:15.719 --> 0:48:18.759
<v Speaker 1>off right this we're talking about a hundred years. All right,

0:48:18.800 --> 0:48:20.879
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna take one last break, and when we come back,

0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:25.000
<v Speaker 1>we're going to discuss one final threat to the habitability

0:48:25.120 --> 0:48:27.279
<v Speaker 1>of the planet. And I imagine you can guess what

0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>it is. Thank Alright, we're back. So there, of course,

0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:34.919
<v Speaker 1>a number a number of other scenarios to consider here,

0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:39.840
<v Speaker 1>various technological threats. AI is certainly a crucial one and

0:48:39.880 --> 0:48:41.840
<v Speaker 1>one that we're hoping to explore in a future episode

0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:43.839
<v Speaker 1>of Stuff to Blow Your Mind. But then there's there's

0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:47.840
<v Speaker 1>also good old nuclear war to consider. So okay, combined,

0:48:47.880 --> 0:48:51.319
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about Skynet and Judgment Day. Yeah, but but

0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:54.880
<v Speaker 1>let's let's just focus on on just the sheer destructive

0:48:54.920 --> 0:48:57.160
<v Speaker 1>power of nuclear weapons for a minute, and the sheer

0:48:57.239 --> 0:49:00.239
<v Speaker 1>number of nuclear weapons. This brings us back to our

0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:03.160
<v Speaker 1>earlier episode from this year about the doomsday clubs. Yes,

0:49:03.200 --> 0:49:07.200
<v Speaker 1>indeed it does so. According to the Federation of American Scientists,

0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:11.720
<v Speaker 1>as of early two thousand seventeen, there are still fourteen thousand,

0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:14.799
<v Speaker 1>nine hundred nuclear weapons in the world. Now you can

0:49:14.840 --> 0:49:18.719
<v Speaker 1>compare that to the maximum number we've ever had, and

0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:22.840
<v Speaker 1>that was six where there's we're seventy thousand, three hundred.

0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:29.839
<v Speaker 1>But even because Superman threw them all into the sun down. Um.

0:49:30.480 --> 0:49:33.200
<v Speaker 1>So The important thing, though, is no matter how many

0:49:33.320 --> 0:49:35.879
<v Speaker 1>nuclear weapons you have, even a small scale nuclear war

0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:40.960
<v Speaker 1>would have intense effects on climate. So NASA scientist Luke

0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:45.400
<v Speaker 1>omen He's predicted that the detonation of one hundred hiroshiumist

0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:48.840
<v Speaker 1>sized bombs would inject upwards of five mega tons of

0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:52.000
<v Speaker 1>black carbon into the upper tropic sphere and result in

0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:54.879
<v Speaker 1>a one degree celsius or one point eight degree fare

0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:58.359
<v Speaker 1>kneit fall over the three years to follow, and for

0:49:58.440 --> 0:50:01.920
<v Speaker 1>two to four years afterward, rainfall would decrease around the

0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:05.919
<v Speaker 1>world by ten percent, and then larger exchanges it gets

0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:11.120
<v Speaker 1>even more terrifying. So this is this is this is interesting.

0:50:11.120 --> 0:50:16.279
<v Speaker 1>In Lost Alamos Laboratory, scientists they predicted that the detonation

0:50:16.320 --> 0:50:19.239
<v Speaker 1>of a mere ten to one hundred super bombs what

0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:23.719
<v Speaker 1>we'd call a hydrogen bomb today or a thermonuclear weapon. Uh,

0:50:23.960 --> 0:50:27.759
<v Speaker 1>they said that that would be enough to to do

0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:32.560
<v Speaker 1>just significant um irreparable damage to the planet. Um. So

0:50:32.640 --> 0:50:35.640
<v Speaker 1>not only like as we're recording this, like we're in

0:50:35.680 --> 0:50:38.800
<v Speaker 1>the middle of again like heated rhetoric with North Korea

0:50:38.840 --> 0:50:41.520
<v Speaker 1>about nuclear weapons, right, and like not only are we

0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:46.239
<v Speaker 1>worrying here about the fear of nuclear threat, but we're

0:50:46.280 --> 0:50:50.359
<v Speaker 1>also like we we need to worry about like the

0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:52.960
<v Speaker 1>effect that this is going to have on the planet afterwards,

0:50:52.960 --> 0:50:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Like what what's the world gonna look like? Afterwards? And

0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:58.440
<v Speaker 1>this has been this has been all a longstanding uh

0:50:59.600 --> 0:51:03.000
<v Speaker 1>warn from scientists. So one issue here is that you

0:51:03.040 --> 0:51:05.960
<v Speaker 1>have so you have one hundred mega tons of fission

0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:08.520
<v Speaker 1>per bomb, you have one hundred bombs. That's enough to

0:51:08.560 --> 0:51:12.920
<v Speaker 1>generate ten thousand mega tons necessary to raise the background

0:51:13.080 --> 0:51:16.520
<v Speaker 1>radioactivity level to dangerous levels. According to the nineteen fifty

0:51:16.560 --> 0:51:20.720
<v Speaker 1>three Project Sunshine study, the exact predictions as to how

0:51:20.760 --> 0:51:23.520
<v Speaker 1>a nuclear war would impact the environment these have varied

0:51:23.560 --> 0:51:28.440
<v Speaker 1>over the years. Using modern climate models, scientist Brian Tune

0:51:28.520 --> 0:51:32.840
<v Speaker 1>and Alan Roebok, they theorized that even a regional nuclear

0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:37.560
<v Speaker 1>war would cause a marginal nuclear winter for everyone nuclear winner.

0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:41.360
<v Speaker 1>To remind everybody this, the idea here is that the

0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:45.120
<v Speaker 1>the the mass the burnt carbon ejected into the atmosphere

0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:48.680
<v Speaker 1>by these explosions, by that by the burnings of cities

0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:52.000
<v Speaker 1>and forests, that this would have essentially shroud the Earth

0:51:52.440 --> 0:51:55.520
<v Speaker 1>and reduced the amount of sunlight reaching the earth. You

0:51:55.560 --> 0:51:58.239
<v Speaker 1>know that this is an aside just to bring a

0:51:58.239 --> 0:52:02.239
<v Speaker 1>little levity, I guess to the but so stranger things.

0:52:02.360 --> 0:52:04.080
<v Speaker 1>We've talked a lot about it on the show before.

0:52:04.080 --> 0:52:06.080
<v Speaker 1>Everybody's talking about it right now because the second season

0:52:06.120 --> 0:52:09.920
<v Speaker 1>just came out. The upside down is essentially like a

0:52:10.000 --> 0:52:13.479
<v Speaker 1>nightmare scenario of of post fallout, right, because you're looking

0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:16.960
<v Speaker 1>at everything's blacked out, there's constant it looks like Dan

0:52:17.080 --> 0:52:19.279
<v Speaker 1>Driff is kind of falling from the sky. But it

0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:22.520
<v Speaker 1>does have a nuclear waste land kind of feel to it. Yeah.

0:52:23.040 --> 0:52:27.640
<v Speaker 1>According to the two thousand seven findings from Robot and Tune,

0:52:27.840 --> 0:52:30.719
<v Speaker 1>they said they did Indian Pakistan, for example, where did

0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:34.120
<v Speaker 1>each launch fifty nuclear weapons at each other. The entire

0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:37.160
<v Speaker 1>globe would experience ten years of smoke clouds and a

0:52:37.239 --> 0:52:41.200
<v Speaker 1>three year temperature drop of approximately uh two point five

0:52:41.239 --> 0:52:49.280
<v Speaker 1>degrees fahrenheit one celsius. What this is like real gallows

0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:52.040
<v Speaker 1>humor here. But like, so is that going to counteract

0:52:52.080 --> 0:52:55.240
<v Speaker 1>climate change? Then? Um, you know, I've I've seen people

0:52:56.160 --> 0:53:00.239
<v Speaker 1>make that joke in the past, and I'm and you

0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:02.719
<v Speaker 1>can make the argument, yeah, that it's like one bad

0:53:02.760 --> 0:53:05.960
<v Speaker 1>thing counts the other bad thing. But but but then

0:53:06.360 --> 0:53:08.760
<v Speaker 1>you have all these other effects too. I mean, obviously

0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:14.080
<v Speaker 1>the loss of life involved the radio active pollution. Uh

0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:16.440
<v Speaker 1>So I think it's very it's very difficult to make

0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:20.720
<v Speaker 1>up a straight faced case for that. But this study,

0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:23.440
<v Speaker 1>this two thousand and seven study, uh, this was one

0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:27.200
<v Speaker 1>of the factors that the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientist

0:53:27.360 --> 0:53:30.200
<v Speaker 1>took into account when they advanced the doomsday clock two

0:53:30.239 --> 0:53:32.920
<v Speaker 1>minutes closer to midnight at the time. Yeah, which is,

0:53:33.080 --> 0:53:34.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, part of what we were talking about earlier

0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:37.839
<v Speaker 1>this year. All right, So we've just presented you with

0:53:37.920 --> 0:53:40.760
<v Speaker 1>all the scenarios we could think of, from the sun

0:53:41.040 --> 0:53:45.839
<v Speaker 1>to asteroids hitting us, to climate change in nuclear war. Yeah,

0:53:45.840 --> 0:53:47.239
<v Speaker 1>I know, Grant, there are a lot of a lot

0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:49.640
<v Speaker 1>of possibilities that we didn't get into. We didn't get

0:53:49.640 --> 0:53:53.360
<v Speaker 1>into your gray goose scenario, your green goose scenario, or

0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:57.719
<v Speaker 1>some of the more exotic ideas. Uh, you know, destruction

0:53:57.880 --> 0:54:00.719
<v Speaker 1>by an alien force which is a planet, things of

0:54:00.760 --> 0:54:03.200
<v Speaker 1>that nature. Uh. And there are other there are also

0:54:03.239 --> 0:54:05.680
<v Speaker 1>a hope there are a number of other cosmic scenarios

0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:07.680
<v Speaker 1>as well that have been thrown out. But I feel

0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:10.120
<v Speaker 1>like this gives us a nice overview of the long

0:54:10.160 --> 0:54:13.800
<v Speaker 1>torrent term, the short term, uh, and the random events,

0:54:14.120 --> 0:54:19.080
<v Speaker 1>the sort of irreversible cosmic threats, as well as the

0:54:18.800 --> 0:54:23.400
<v Speaker 1>the man made of threats of nuclear war and climate change.

0:54:23.719 --> 0:54:27.759
<v Speaker 1>So what should we believe the worst case scenarios that

0:54:27.800 --> 0:54:31.120
<v Speaker 1>are prevented in front of us, or the hopeful messages

0:54:31.160 --> 0:54:34.319
<v Speaker 1>that will get human beings to hopefully be more proactive

0:54:34.320 --> 0:54:36.960
<v Speaker 1>about their part in this. I mean, the big takeaway

0:54:37.000 --> 0:54:40.319
<v Speaker 1>I've got from this is that we need to be

0:54:40.440 --> 0:54:45.200
<v Speaker 1>even more proactive about climate change than even the Paris Accords.

0:54:45.239 --> 0:54:48.560
<v Speaker 1>And nuclear weapons are a much bigger problem than in

0:54:48.680 --> 0:54:52.560
<v Speaker 1>terms of just uh war, right, Like they're they're going

0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:56.440
<v Speaker 1>to have like an overall horrible effect on the entire planet. Well,

0:54:56.440 --> 0:54:57.759
<v Speaker 1>I think one way to look at it is to

0:54:57.760 --> 0:55:01.040
<v Speaker 1>think of it in terms of per and all human health.

0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:05.160
<v Speaker 1>And this is an example that I think gives hope

0:55:05.200 --> 0:55:09.520
<v Speaker 1>and also is um concerning too, because you could think

0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:12.319
<v Speaker 1>about all, right, so worst case scenarios are presented for

0:55:12.400 --> 0:55:15.480
<v Speaker 1>human health all the time. You know, if you if

0:55:15.520 --> 0:55:18.839
<v Speaker 1>you drink NonStop or and or smoke NonStop, then this

0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:20.600
<v Speaker 1>is what will happen to your body. Here are some

0:55:20.719 --> 0:55:23.400
<v Speaker 1>examples of what has happened to other bodies, and in

0:55:23.440 --> 0:55:25.480
<v Speaker 1>some cases those can be helpful. They can say, oh, well,

0:55:25.600 --> 0:55:28.279
<v Speaker 1>I better not do that that I'm gonna I'm gonna

0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:31.080
<v Speaker 1>cut it off. I'm gonna cut this level of my

0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:33.840
<v Speaker 1>destructive behavior off at this point so that I don't

0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:37.440
<v Speaker 1>get to there. And you know, that that can that

0:55:37.480 --> 0:55:40.839
<v Speaker 1>could be helpful for for human society if we realize, yeah,

0:55:40.840 --> 0:55:43.359
<v Speaker 1>we definitely don't want to get to this point, so

0:55:43.480 --> 0:55:45.680
<v Speaker 1>let's figure let's figure out a way to at least

0:55:45.840 --> 0:55:49.239
<v Speaker 1>scale back and uh, you know we've seen that, say

0:55:49.280 --> 0:55:53.319
<v Speaker 1>with with the with the reduction of nuclear warheads in

0:55:53.360 --> 0:55:55.879
<v Speaker 1>the world, even though we still have way too many,

0:55:56.080 --> 0:55:59.160
<v Speaker 1>especially when you think like the relative short amount of

0:55:59.200 --> 0:56:01.960
<v Speaker 1>time that it's actually been in which we got rid

0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:04.480
<v Speaker 1>of like uh doing this off to the top of

0:56:04.480 --> 0:56:07.319
<v Speaker 1>my head, but basically sixty warheads. Yeah, yeah, I mean,

0:56:07.360 --> 0:56:09.400
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's impressive, even though there's a lot more

0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:10.920
<v Speaker 1>work to do. I mean, but the other side of

0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:13.800
<v Speaker 1>the coin is that we see countless examples of human

0:56:13.800 --> 0:56:16.960
<v Speaker 1>health where when presented with the data, we still don't

0:56:17.000 --> 0:56:20.960
<v Speaker 1>do anything, you know, because we're still so shortsighted in

0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:24.000
<v Speaker 1>how we interact with our lives and that applies to

0:56:24.040 --> 0:56:27.480
<v Speaker 1>our personal lives as well as as globally. So we

0:56:27.640 --> 0:56:31.280
<v Speaker 1>could think, yeah, climate climate change is a threat, nuclear

0:56:31.320 --> 0:56:34.120
<v Speaker 1>weapons are a threat. I hope somebody does something about

0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:36.520
<v Speaker 1>that one day. It's kind of like saying, yeah, one

0:56:36.560 --> 0:56:38.279
<v Speaker 1>of these days, I'll get into shape and start eating

0:56:38.360 --> 0:56:40.920
<v Speaker 1>right right, Yeah, that's what it makes me think of

0:56:41.400 --> 0:56:44.799
<v Speaker 1>from personal perspective. You know, maybe I need to lay

0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:47.239
<v Speaker 1>off the pizza. Also, maybe I need to lay off

0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:50.920
<v Speaker 1>the carbon emissions. All of this reminds me of that

0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:53.359
<v Speaker 1>episode I'm gonna circle back around the one that we

0:56:53.440 --> 0:56:57.799
<v Speaker 1>did way back in May on mass extinctions. Uh. In

0:56:57.840 --> 0:57:00.440
<v Speaker 1>that episode, I talked a lot about this book by

0:57:00.440 --> 0:57:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Anneleine Knew. It's called Scatter adapt and remember how humans

0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:08.440
<v Speaker 1>will survive mass extinction, And her argument there is that

0:57:08.480 --> 0:57:12.480
<v Speaker 1>we need to a scatter from Earth in the long term,

0:57:12.719 --> 0:57:17.560
<v Speaker 1>be adapt to climate change and see remember our history

0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:21.720
<v Speaker 1>so that we can ensure our species survival. This reminds

0:57:21.760 --> 0:57:24.920
<v Speaker 1>me of the Expanse, which we've done episodes on as well. Right,

0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:27.560
<v Speaker 1>So where do we go? Well, NASA conducted a two

0:57:27.640 --> 0:57:30.400
<v Speaker 1>hundred million dollar study in the year two thousand that

0:57:30.440 --> 0:57:34.640
<v Speaker 1>reported a colony could be dug under the Moon's surface

0:57:34.760 --> 0:57:38.479
<v Speaker 1>and covered to protect its residents. Now we're talking about

0:57:38.480 --> 0:57:41.160
<v Speaker 1>short term here. Remember we talked about way in the future,

0:57:41.240 --> 0:57:43.720
<v Speaker 1>the Moon isn't going to be an ideal place for

0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:46.000
<v Speaker 1>us to go to. But if not our Moon, then

0:57:46.040 --> 0:57:50.920
<v Speaker 1>there's other possibilities such as the moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus,

0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Neptune or Mars might be a possibility, or even more possible,

0:57:57.480 --> 0:58:01.600
<v Speaker 1>an orbital habitat that's constructed from resources that we extract

0:58:01.640 --> 0:58:05.760
<v Speaker 1>from near Earth asteroids. But again, you're getting closer and

0:58:05.800 --> 0:58:09.800
<v Speaker 1>closer to Kardashio of scale level that we just don't

0:58:09.840 --> 0:58:13.200
<v Speaker 1>have that kind of technology right now. Yeah, I mean again,

0:58:13.240 --> 0:58:16.880
<v Speaker 1>it comes back to the Goldilocks UH conundrum though, where

0:58:17.720 --> 0:58:19.640
<v Speaker 1>you have all these things that are just right on Earth,

0:58:19.640 --> 0:58:23.080
<v Speaker 1>and when we start expanding outward and trying to imagine

0:58:23.080 --> 0:58:28.920
<v Speaker 1>ourselves establishing humanity on other planets or other cosmic bodies,

0:58:29.240 --> 0:58:33.480
<v Speaker 1>we're faced with just how imperfect all of our options

0:58:33.520 --> 0:58:37.160
<v Speaker 1>are compared to what we evolve to thrive in. How

0:58:37.240 --> 0:58:39.720
<v Speaker 1>much more work it's going to be too, and then

0:58:39.880 --> 0:58:42.640
<v Speaker 1>and and how how does that work stack up with

0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:46.720
<v Speaker 1>the work we're faced with now to just add some

0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:50.800
<v Speaker 1>more years to the planet shelf life? You know, like,

0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:53.960
<v Speaker 1>what is what? What's what's easier? I mean, granted, neither

0:58:54.000 --> 0:58:56.800
<v Speaker 1>of these things are are easy. Both all these things

0:58:56.800 --> 0:59:01.320
<v Speaker 1>are hard. But is it easier to to reduce the

0:59:01.400 --> 0:59:04.680
<v Speaker 1>number of nuclear warheads in the planet to uh, to

0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:07.760
<v Speaker 1>admitigate the effects of climate change, or to figure out

0:59:07.840 --> 0:59:10.960
<v Speaker 1>how to establish a new Earth on it, like a

0:59:11.200 --> 0:59:16.160
<v Speaker 1>radiation scathed planet elsewhere in our solar system. Yeah, that

0:59:16.280 --> 0:59:19.480
<v Speaker 1>is a very good point. Yeah, when you weigh the

0:59:19.520 --> 0:59:23.440
<v Speaker 1>cost benefit analysis there, it really, you know, from a

0:59:23.520 --> 0:59:28.120
<v Speaker 1>capitalist perspective, becomes obvious what the answer is. There's also

0:59:28.160 --> 0:59:30.160
<v Speaker 1>the question which we always bring up on the show,

0:59:30.280 --> 0:59:33.280
<v Speaker 1>what if we've become transhuman? You know, we could develop

0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:36.480
<v Speaker 1>technology or genetics that could change us into another species

0:59:36.520 --> 0:59:41.640
<v Speaker 1>that could totally survive these changes. Well, okay, Wallace Wells,

0:59:41.640 --> 0:59:44.560
<v Speaker 1>though this is interesting. This is an interesting one to

0:59:44.680 --> 0:59:47.240
<v Speaker 1>leave you with, he said in that piece, And again

0:59:47.320 --> 0:59:50.200
<v Speaker 1>remember his piece was a little scaremongery. He spoke to

0:59:50.280 --> 0:59:55.240
<v Speaker 1>some scientists with a point about the Fermi paradox, which

0:59:55.320 --> 0:59:57.120
<v Speaker 1>is another thing we talked about on the show a lot,

0:59:57.640 --> 1:00:01.000
<v Speaker 1>and they said, maybe the reason we have an encountered

1:00:01.080 --> 1:00:05.440
<v Speaker 1>intelligent life yet is because the natural lifespan of a

1:00:05.520 --> 1:00:10.080
<v Speaker 1>civilization is only several thousand years old. Remember I started

1:00:10.080 --> 1:00:12.960
<v Speaker 1>this off by telling uh the stats on how long

1:00:13.040 --> 1:00:16.840
<v Speaker 1>mammals are known to survive for. That's not talking about civilization.

1:00:17.160 --> 1:00:21.160
<v Speaker 1>Civilization brings with it its own complications that namely the

1:00:21.280 --> 1:00:26.240
<v Speaker 1>risk of self destruction. Yeah, so maybe civilizations have emerged,

1:00:26.600 --> 1:00:29.760
<v Speaker 1>developed and then burned up, but it's all been too

1:00:29.800 --> 1:00:33.479
<v Speaker 1>fast for them to ever find one another. Uh So,

1:00:33.960 --> 1:00:37.240
<v Speaker 1>while we can start seeing the devastating effects from climate

1:00:37.360 --> 1:00:40.840
<v Speaker 1>change and as soon as the next one hundred years,

1:00:41.600 --> 1:00:45.520
<v Speaker 1>it seems like the actual planet won't be uninhabitable to

1:00:45.680 --> 1:00:50.600
<v Speaker 1>us for five hundred million years, right, Like, the climate

1:00:50.680 --> 1:00:53.600
<v Speaker 1>change effects are going to be bad, but there will

1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:56.160
<v Speaker 1>be parts of the planet we can live on. It's

1:00:56.200 --> 1:00:59.320
<v Speaker 1>just going to be a matter of even more disparity

1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:01.919
<v Speaker 1>than we're already looking at here, right because the rich

1:01:02.360 --> 1:01:04.920
<v Speaker 1>are obviously gonna want to live in those parts that

1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:07.920
<v Speaker 1>are nicer. So it's the it's less the prospect of

1:01:07.960 --> 1:01:12.880
<v Speaker 1>an uninhabitable earth in the prospect of a less habitable earth,

1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:16.080
<v Speaker 1>I think so, And that can be pretty, uh pretty

1:01:16.160 --> 1:01:20.080
<v Speaker 1>terrifying in its own way. Absolutely, Okay, I hope we

1:01:20.160 --> 1:01:23.800
<v Speaker 1>did this topic some justice. It was a little bit rough.

1:01:24.200 --> 1:01:26.680
<v Speaker 1>They're going through all of those statistics and just kind

1:01:26.680 --> 1:01:30.120
<v Speaker 1>of looking looking at the sort of damocles hanging over

1:01:30.240 --> 1:01:32.960
<v Speaker 1>all of our heads. But I'm glad we did it.

1:01:33.000 --> 1:01:35.640
<v Speaker 1>I think I think I learned something. Yeah, Yeah, so

1:01:35.880 --> 1:01:37.600
<v Speaker 1>we'd love to hear from everyone out there. What are

1:01:37.640 --> 1:01:41.400
<v Speaker 1>your thoughts on these various threats to the planet we

1:01:41.480 --> 1:01:43.120
<v Speaker 1>call home. You can get in touch with us a

1:01:43.200 --> 1:01:45.640
<v Speaker 1>number of different ways. Find us on social media. We

1:01:45.720 --> 1:01:50.800
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1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:54.040
<v Speaker 1>but on Facebook. We also have a discussion group called

1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:57.000
<v Speaker 1>the Discussion Module. You can find that, join it, interact

1:01:57.040 --> 1:02:00.480
<v Speaker 1>with other listeners as well as the host as the selves,

1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:03.320
<v Speaker 1>and uh hey, stuff to blow your Mind dot com.

1:02:03.440 --> 1:02:05.400
<v Speaker 1>That's the mothership. That's what we will find all the

1:02:05.400 --> 1:02:07.600
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1:02:07.640 --> 1:02:11.160
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1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:13.440
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1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:15.560
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1:02:15.640 --> 1:02:17.640
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1:02:17.720 --> 1:02:29.040
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