WEBVTT - Ep. 490: Duck DNA: Are “Wild” Ducks Really Wild? 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:13.320 If this is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:19.320 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listeningast, you can't predict. 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:25.000 Anything presented by First Light creating proven versatile hunting apparel 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:28.880 from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. For every hunt, 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:36.200 first Light, Go Farther, stay longer. Is it on Phil 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:36.839 Machines on? 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:37.920 Do you want to put your headphones on? 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:38.239 Oh? 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:40.800 You don't have to suggestion? 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:46.520 Okay, good, definitely got to hit Phil's upcoming show. 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:48.680 We already you mention that it's in here. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:50.519 I gotta I'm gonna give I'm gonna give Cren a 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.960 comment sandwich. Okay you ready? You guys know what a 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:59.160 comment sandwich is. If you need to critique someone, right, 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.880 you don't come in and critique them bad's in the medal. 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.960 You come in and say something good, then you say 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.039 the thing you're trying to get across, and then you 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:14.240 end on something good. So uh, Crinnell is great that 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:20.319 you got that red stag in Scotland. See thanks. Sometimes 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:24.160 you can do what's called the open face sandwich anywhere 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.280 you don't end it with the comments. So there and 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.800 then now I'm gonna go crindas. The notes today are 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:38.080 it's like eight hours worth of material sloppily arranged. And 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.199 then you so you got that, and then I'm gonna 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.080 go on, God, you look great today, Krin. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.000 It's a true. 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.240 Okay, well we can cut out of you can cut 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:50.880 out of fair bit. 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:59.720 You try a new soap. She bought a new kind 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.560 of so open in Scotland. Did you have fun in Scotland? 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:02.840 For real? 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.760 Had a fantastic time like it? It was, it was wonderful. 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.680 I mean, the hunting process is obviously a bit different. 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.680 Yeah, deers are like for sale in some market. Ye's 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:14.640 eating your deer like that he bought at the store. 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.120 That's or like dog food. 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.639 But but yeah, I mean the government, the Scottish government 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.920 tells an a state how much I mean, it determines 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.239 how many animals on its property need to be called. 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.720 And then you're you know, so there's a professional stalker 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.120 at each estate and that's their duty to carry out 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.480 what's required. And then if you're there hunting it, you're 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:43.520 kind of helping to you know, fulfill fulfill the aim. 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:50.880 And and each animal is then sold to a a 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.120 game dealer. And I was told that it's like sold 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:55.840 with the coat on and the head off. 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.240 When you guys got it, did you you gutted it 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.000 from the diaphragm back right? Yes, which they got a 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.280 weird sounding name for like glat glock. 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.400 I don't I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember the 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:08.920 name of it, but they didn't. Yeah, they did it 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:09.520 a different way. 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:14.519 Look that up, Yanni, I type in something like Scottish, 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:21.480 I don't know, gutting, gutting method, diaphragm. I'll get you started. 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.120 Was it a drive hunt? Was it like driven or 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:26.079 were you stocking? 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.840 Yeah, ladies and gentlemen. That was voice of Phil Lovretzky, 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:37.120 Russian born researcher who has a University of Texas at 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.120 El Passel. Krinn has pointed out, you have a whole 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.680 lab named after you. Sure explain what you guys do. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.080 You're here to talk about mailard ducks and some real problems. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:52.280 We are real problems. So yeah, no, yeah, I run 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:57.040 a wildlife genetics lab. While we focus on ducks. You know, 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:02.440 our whole stick is feel to gene We are right now. 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.960 I have Cruise in Arizona catching Mexican ducks, and other 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.280 crews in Texas catching model ducks, and we do everything 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:15.640 from catching, banding, telemetry work all the way to population genetics, evolution, 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.920 these types of things. And basically the difference or the 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.839 big thing about us is we use genetics to identify 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:27.320 individuals correctly, so we have no you know, you can't 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:28.599 run away from your genetics. 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:29.520 It is what it is. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.479 So by understanding who we're working with, we can matter. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.760 Who has in critters creators. Now this is all just 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:37.440 a prey lude to her answering the question, but I 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.480 just wanted to people know who they were here and talking. 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.200 Who it is the foundation? Yeah, so our foundation is genetics, 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.840 and then we explore everything from migration to morphology, how 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:54.239 hybridization causes issues if so if not, how releases feral 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.400 populations in New Zealand here in North America, Europe, How 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.920 are they establishing, why did they established, and how they 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.680 look like compared to the things that they came from. 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.160 God, we're gonna get into that head yeah, real heavy 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:08.240 kring go on though. 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.320 Oh yeah, So the animal is sold in full coat 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.040 to a game dealer, and then that game dealer turns 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.960 it around again and sells it to a butcher, which. 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.400 You guys, cut it off at the knees right when 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.400 I was there, they did. They got it diaphragm back, 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.320 cut it off at the knees and out the door. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.920 So diaphragm and guts were cut out, left for the 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:33.560 eagles and then everything. We drug out the animal for 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.480 a little bit and met horses and then we threw it. 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.640 Oh you know, head comes off, but nothing was cut 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.200 off at the knees. It came all the way down. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:43.640 Back to the horse on a horse. 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:43.920 Yeah. 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:49.040 They come out with horses and one one horse like 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.159 holds the head or that's kind of like the horse 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.800 in training that eventually might have the body of the 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:55.640 animal on it, and you walk it down. 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:56.960 On a horse. How made you guys? 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:02.520 Shoot Morgan Morgan Potter who's been on the show before 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:07.679 he got to I got one, and our friend David 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:09.080 who invited us, got one. 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.560 Are they gonna do? You get to send the head 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:12.200 home and keep it? 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.599 I've got the antlers, uh somewhere in the mail on 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:18.040 their way over to Bozeman. 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.400 With the skull cap or you just saw them all 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:20.400 so they. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.560 It's kinda yeah, skull cap like kind of like a 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:25.720 yamica where. 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.719 That there you go yeah, yeah, I'm dragging. Yeah, phill's draggon. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.440 I don't know what you call that, but that's. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:34.920 A skull cap. 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:36.080 Yeah, okay. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:41.200 As if you cut a little deep around your yamica. 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:45.800 Like slices the eye sockets in the middle to it's 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.159 not it's not like just tight around them, that. 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.000 Saves you a lot of cutting. Yeah. When you when 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:52.919 you get the eye sockets into your cut. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:58.000 Yeah, I think it also makes for a nice flush mount. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:58.520 To the wall. 0:06:58.680 --> 0:06:59.599 And that is right. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:06.200 It's uh years ago. We were hunting Alabama in Tuskegee 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.240 National Forest and I killed a little teeny spike horn 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.080 that had you know, inch and a half spikes. And 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:15.280 when I scull capped the might just cut this super 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.800 narrow strip of bone to connect the two little spikes. 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.000 And I'm not joking. I went home. I flew home 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:30.320 with his rack and my shirt pocket. Probably I could 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:35.120 pull it out of my shirt pocket. Man, holy cow. Man. 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:36.960 Like I said, we got so much talk about we're. 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.240 Gonna let's not make the show like two hours and 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.280 a half. Let's like maybe cut a thing out you want, 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.640 you can, we can cut the non waterfowl stuff out. 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:49.640 Listen. Let me just let me take a look here. 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:55.560 The Flying V guys are here. Introduce yourself, boys, Brady 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:57.200 who goes first? 0:07:57.520 --> 0:07:59.640 Matt McCormick here, yep, Living Bozeman. 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:02.119 My partner, Brady yep, Brady Davis. 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.720 I also live here in town Flying THEE. Matt and 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.440 I have a couple of companies called Flying Thee. This 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:10.080 year is gonna be really fun. We're going to be 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.400 doing a bunch of waterfowl content with Meat Eater and 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.960 for meat Eater, so we're super pumped about that. 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:17.720 And you guys manage land. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:19.880 Yeah, we've got another business where we do land and 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:24.400 ranch management. So we do you know, habitat construction, restoration 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:25.160 and management. 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.640 And so yeah, these guys like the Army Corps of Engineers. Man, 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:33.439 I went on these guys in terms of like waterfowl 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:34.640 Habitat's impressive. 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.600 Yeah, yeah, and then waterfowl is the primary focus. Ducks, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.560 you know around here, ducks are a primary focus for us. 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.440 But there's inherently some elk stuff and some deer stuff 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.559 and some upland stuff that kind of comes along with it. 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.680 Excited to be here, talk a little bit more with 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.840 with you, Phil, But yeah, it's development and restoration man. 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.240 And it's for the greater good, you know, providing food safety, 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:58.920 nesting habitat all that. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.480 Yeah, a lot of lends work you guys get involved in. 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:03.880 Yeah, and we have to work with the Army Corps 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:05.160 of Engineers and a lot of that stuff. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.600 Because I know, I was just making a joke, you know, 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:09.280 I mean when you. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.720 When you start doing stuff like this, there's natural wetlands 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:14.600 and everything. I mean, they got to come out and 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.080 they'll they'll bring a big roll of red flags and 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:19.960 they'll put it all over the property and say you 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.200 cannot touch this. I mean all the way across the board. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:24.680 You can't. You cannot mess with it. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.360 You can add to it, but not mess with it. 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:28.200 Yeah, and if you take some you have to give 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.280 some back. But they have parameters around that. There's a 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.640 bunch of permitting and everything. But you know, the state 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.319 of Montana, they they love trout, so you kind of 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.440 lean on the trout thing and trout then everything that 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:39.800 a trout loves, the duck loves too. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.640 So so you know how to game it. Yeah, you 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:44.760 have to game and are going to love it. 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.760 And yeah, yeah, it's really fascinating. I mean it's the 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:53.280 it's the same. It's the same answer but a different question, right, 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.680 what's good for the trout? What's good for the duck? 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:56.760 But it's the same answer. 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.400 And then you guys, that's good that aligns. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.640 you guys gave up on like basically most kinds of 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:04.800 hunting just to focus on ducks over the years. 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.120 Yeah, you know, it's it's funny. We both grew up 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.320 doing all kinds of hunting. Matt grew up waterfowl hunting 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:09.880 when he was young. 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:11.760 I did not. I got into waterfowl hunting in my 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.240 early twenties because you're from the arid West. Yeah. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:16.360 Yeah, when I got into it in my early twenties. 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.720 The problem is, once I got into it. 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:20.960 It was over, no looking back. 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.400 The very first day I had some decoys called in 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:24.080 a few geese. 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:25.120 I remember you told me about that. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:27.920 And the day those geese died, I walked into the 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:29.960 house I was a newlywed, told my wife, I'm like 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:31.360 game over. 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:33.120 I had I had hounds. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:35.240 I was hunting lions and bears and stuff with dogs, 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:36.920 and those dogs got sold. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:38.760 Next thing, you know, I had a labrador and. 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.120 More decoys and more decoys, and if you ask my 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:43.679 wife more decoys. 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.040 Well, surprise, those line dogs didn't team up and kill 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:47.079 that lab out of spike. 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.040 I moved them out of the asylum before the next 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:51.840 inmate came in. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.280 Yeah, they're like, this sun bitch is gonna be trouble. Yeah. 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.400 Now I had a question, Now, do you guys go 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.560 after knockout grants? Is that how you guys do a 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:00.760 lot of the habitat work? 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.440 Yeah, there is some. There is some of that, and 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.480 we and we work with a couple of different consultant 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.600 agencies that just focus on permitting, right because you need 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:11.480 you need people that can read the fine print. And 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:12.880 at the end of the day, we're looking to do 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:17.120 macro you know, macro restoration, and so a lot of 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.760 those guys are handling the the the details of that. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.280 But yes, to your to your. 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:23.679 Question, there are some of that. 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:25.960 We also a lot of our clients are people who 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.880 purchased the land for the purpose of hunting, so they 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.320 are willing to invest more money and you know, they're 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.600 they're they're good to put the money in for the 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:34.200 end result. 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.160 And so at the end of the day, what. 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.760 We care about is that the birds are there and 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.240 that the habitat supports holding the birds, not just having 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.360 them there for a shooter or for a hunt. And 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.320 so we're looking at everything from Okay, how do we 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.000 get them here? But then how do we hold them 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.480 and maintain and keep them there? So you know, the 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.680 wetland stuff is a big part of it, but we 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.560 also do a ton of farming, you know, planning, consulting 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.880 which crops go in the layout on the property, where 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.200 the corn needs to go in, the spring weight and 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.600 the barley and the peas, and how all that lays 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:08.480 out on the property. 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.520 And in reference to the water sources as well. 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.320 Ohuld maybe have you guys take a look at my 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:13.000 pumpkin patch. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.559 We're here, We're enough to I've never done anything with pumpkins. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:19.760 Pumpkins and I want up with just two. But we 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.120 can talk about it later. I got three kids, so 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.640 this is not going over the well. Yeah, I'm stick 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.080 of doing it. Plug the me Eater Live Show. Let 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:29.280 me hear you just tear it up. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:31.120 With no notes. 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:35.640 No here here, there's no notes in this documentary Like. 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.600 It just didn't do a very good job of producing. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.480 I didn't want to spend seventeen minutes on us talking about. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.200 All is going to do it for speed version. 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.600 If you're looking for something really fun to do in 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:56.560 December and uh, you live somewhere between Colorado and Philly, 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.080 your luck because meteor. 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:01.440 Is you know, so it makes like a little line 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:02.200 across the country. 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:02.800 Yeah, totally. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.960 And I know a lot of people are upset from 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:10.400 the South, Southeast, Texas, other parts of the country because 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.520 they're like, what about us, And we only have so 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:15.040 much time in our lives. 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.920 And when the pandemic curry you got keep in track 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:21.760 how long we talk about this before the pandemic. We 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:23.640 were going out the other direction, but it all got 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:24.960 canceled because of the pandemic. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.040 Yeah, And we have hit you know, states and cities 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.040 all over the country in the past, and I think 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.839 that in future versions of this, we probably will hit 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.800 the South and we'll hit the West coast. But this 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:46.680 time around, we're in Denver, Kansas City, Missouri, Davenport, Iowa, Kalamazoo, Michigan, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Ohio, Pittsburgh, PA, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:51.480 and Philly, PA. So all VIP tickets are already sold out, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.200 but there are general admission tickets left. Come and see us, 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:56.920 go to the mediator dot com. If you want to 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.720 see the dates that we'll be at each one of those, 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.840 it's roughly December sixth through the December fifteenth. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.720 A lot of great guests lined up. We've got guests 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.160 lined up all or damn place. Kevin Murphy's coming out. 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:07.640 Mm hmm. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.840 You're gonna have We're gonna have Wolf, You're gonna have 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.760 We're gonna have a casting contest at every show in 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.240 order to win a seat at the trivia table. How 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:18.040 long was that? Kran good? M hm, thanks you loving 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.400 that is great. Phil over to Phil speaking of the live show, 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:22.640 Take it away, Phil. 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.360 I, okay, yeah, very very generous. I think this is 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.160 the third time we've talked about this local community theater 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:29.880 thing I'm doing. 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:30.880 Bill is the Thespian. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:32.760 This one's for all you and Michigan. Come on out, 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.200 uh Yellen Theater October twentieth doing a show. It's a 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.520 nineteen thirty screwball comedy called you Can't Take It with 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.000 You Jo, Phil, just one, oh no, We're doing six 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.520 or seven shows. It's two weekends, two weekends, long starts. 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.280 The twentieth goes through the twenty ninth. 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:49.760 Okay, yep, still tickets available. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.440 There are still some tickets available. Yes, okay, dude. I 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.160 went to a live show the other night and it 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.200 was my one of my favorite bands, but probably the 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:58.560 worst show I've ever seen, Brian Johnstown Mass And I 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.240 didn't mean to stay. I told my wife I had 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:01.680 a bunch of friends, not a bunch. 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:01.920 Yeah. 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.040 I went down to a bunch of friends and I said, listen, 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:06.560 I want to have my own car because I'm not staying. 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.360 I'm just going to have a look like I don't 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.080 like you know, I'm gonna have a look, and I'm 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.560 gonna go home. So if you want to stay, drive separate. 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.520 But we all left at the same time early. This 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:22.120 is a horrible job. Wow. But he said something that's 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.120 been keep me up at night. He said, it's good 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.520 to be back in this part of the country that 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:33.520 I love so well that teeters between rugged individualism and 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:38.520 common sense. Please don't let it tip too far? Now? 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:40.200 Is that why you left early? 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:40.640 No? 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:41.240 Okay? 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.200 But was keep me up at night? Is what way? 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.960 Does he mean that it's tipping? Which is a good way? 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:48.600 Yeah? 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:52.240 Yeah, like tip, like you know you could read it 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:53.920 that he doesn't think it should tip too far. In 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.600 either direction because it teeters on the edge or he 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:57.640 feels that it's tipping. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.680 Well, the term common sense has scent of connotation. I 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.160 would say, so, my my gut would be he's saying 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.680 it's tipping too far towards rugged individualism. 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.880 He's saying that's not keep me up tonight. Maybe I 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:12.280 wasn't even in the talking points. 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.000 Maybe he's trying to say that he would like us 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:20.240 to keep that balance and that we should just hold 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.920 those two qualities near and dear and don't tip out 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.720 of wherever else we might end up. 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.000 Stay on the knife edge. Stay on the knife edge. 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:39.520 Uh man, he is giving me stink eye. 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.080 This is all great. I don't even know where to begin. 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.200 I'm gonna jump around for a minute. Oh, here's the 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.360 thing I want to talk about. This is a craction 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.880 to a craction. You should will limit it to like 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.200 there'll be a statement, a correction, a correction to a craction, 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.160 a craction to that correction, and then we usually drop it. 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:07.560 That's what this is. This is where we're at. I 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.640 don't even want to get into it. So number of 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.720 episodes ago I talked about a piece that came out 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:20.760 I believe in Free Press Barry Weiss's publication Free Press, 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.760 where I have an article coming out, I'll point out, uh, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.080 and it was a researcher who just written a piece 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.600 about wildfires in California. And he was writing and he 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.840 published it in the journal. Like there's two the two 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:40.719 most prestigious scientific journals on the planet are Nature and Science. 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.119 You agree, I agree? Okay, he agrees. You ever had 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:43.800 anything in there? 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:45.960 They don't like ducks. 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:48.680 Well, let me give you a tip. You want to 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.080 get something in there, listen to what I'm gonna tell you. 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:55.159 I'm all yours, he said. He wrote he published in 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.200 Nature about the role of climate change in wildfires in California, 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.480 and then publishing ed saying, if you want to be 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:06.119 published in Science or Nature, you have to focus exclusively 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:12.600 on climate. You could all the myriad factors that go 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.040 into wildfires, like why the increase in human caused wildfires, 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.760 forestry practices, the lack of forestry practices leading to wildfires, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.399 electrical transmission practices leading into wildfires, and he says, no 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.880 one's going to care. If it's climate change, you will 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.840 get published. Then some stuff came out where they revealed 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:39.679 that in the review process of his article Nature, the 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.480 editors at Nature had said, well, have you factored in 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.480 all this other stuff? And he said, well, I'm going 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.359 to get to it in later research projects. So they 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.919 kind of did like a gotcha, meaning, oh, no, we 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:54.359 did ask about all of that stuff and he is 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.560 going to get to it later, but we specifically asked 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.959 about all these other factors. Then what came back he said, like, 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.959 but we would have never had that conversation had I 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:11.640 focused on those other factors. Heffelfinger writes in your discussion 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:15.240 about climate change writing in Nature confused me when I 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:17.480 sent you the link to that guy's blog, I didn't 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.880 realize that was exactly the story you were talking about 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.560 in the original procast number four seventy eight. I sent 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.000 you that as supporting information for what you were talking about, 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.399 the positive bias and climate change publishing publishing, which is 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:36.119 absolutely a rampant problem. Everything he said in that article 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.640 was true completely. I see it all the time when 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.520 researchers are writing a proposal to get a research grant, 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.880 they have to make everything about climate change follow the narrative. 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.440 That's where the money is. A study on summer precipitation 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:55.800 on elkcaff recruitment becomes all about climate change, dry summers. 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.680 The first draft of one of my son's papers from 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.320 his master's degree mentioned climate change in six of ten 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.560 sentences in the abstract because his major professor was trying 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.679 to get in a prestigious journal and it has to 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:14.200 be about climate change to accomplish that. It was simply 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.359 a mule deer fonn survival study in Nevada, and the 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:21.159 abstract was all about climate change. The narrative. Again, this 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:25.720 is a huge problem in scientific writing. And he goes on. 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.399 Then he goes on to say, basically, how could you 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.960 have been surprised by the thing that the rabbit don't 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.679 die when it comes to pregnancy test? Because it's an 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:43.120 Aerosmith I'll point out is Aerosmith's only good song where 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.560 he says, what does he say, because the rabbit done died, 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:58.840 meaning a pregnancy Right? That's good? Yeah, you're doing well. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.440 It was the time on that twelve seconds? 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.919 Uh, New Jersey? Can we hit this Krinn? 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:08.639 Yeah, it'll take a minute. 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.320 Remember when I said my least favorite politician in America 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:18.240 was New Jersey's Governor Murphy Whoe. I wouldn't know him. No, 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:19.840 I wouldn know, hi, because I remember when he got 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:21.760 he was one of those governors that got real, telling 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:23.679 everybody not to do anything during the pandemic, and then 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:25.720 he gets caught out in a restaurant without his mask. 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.520 Yeah. 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.000 Anyways, he campaigned on shutting down the black bear hunting 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.679 New Jersey, which makes him my least favorite politician in America. 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.399 My current least favorite politician in America is Jay Insley, 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.639 but back then my least favorite politician in America was 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.720 Murphy Well. The New Jersey hunt is back on. The 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:51.000 New Jersey bear hunts back on New Jersey. Screws with 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:52.760 the hunters real bad, so they'll do it. They'll do 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.680 a black bear hunt. And when you kill a BlackBerry, 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:58.119 you have to bring it in. This is quite common 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:00.720 across pretty much. I can't think a single state where 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:02.320 you kill a black bear and don't bring the black 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:04.720 bear and so they can collect some biometric data off it. 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.520 Here in the state we're sitting in right now, in Montana, 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:11.640 which teeters on the edge of common sense and rugged individualism. 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:13.879 When you kill a bear, you take it down the 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:16.199 fishing game. You go into the front office, you say, hey, 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:18.800 I have a bear. I like to check like a 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:20.960 biole just to come out. You go on the back. 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:24.800 You'll do your bear check in privacy. Right, you go 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:26.960 to in catch kan Alaska, you'll bring your bear in. 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:28.439 You go to a place you go in in some 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.080 level of privacy, you do your bear check. New Jersey 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:33.120 when they do a bear hunt, they're like, hear ye, 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:37.160 hear ye. All bear hunters will have to come walk 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:42.280 the gauntlet of protesters to publicly register their bear hunt 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:46.000 while getting was that word we talk about their day 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:55.280 The mean a cost by getting a costed good job, 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:56.080 you honest. 0:22:57.520 --> 0:22:59.920 We talk about a lot of words over the years, 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:01.840 so it's hard to remember the last one. 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:05.639 But yeah, So it causes all this trouble and all 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:08.159 these protests and then everybody gets bent out of shape. Meanwhile, 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:10.760 it has the highest density of black bears anywhere. New 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:13.119 Jersey has the highest density of black bears anywhere in 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:17.600 the country. So the controversial black bear hunt is back 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:21.879 on in New Jersey following a Superior Court judge ruling 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:26.920 that did not favor animal rights groups and de facto murphy. 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:30.960 Monday mark the first day of the October hunt. So whatever, 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:32.720 what the hell? Monday was at whatever the hell Monday. 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.440 I think this came out like last week, so this 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:37.400 is like early October. 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:42.320 Another is scheduled in December. Hunters brought the bears they 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:45.200 killed to the Waiting Haam Wildlife Management Area in Newton. 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:48.520 One limitation is the bears weighing less than seventy five 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:50.399 pounds can't be harvested. 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:52.879 Ooh, that's tricky. 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:55.879 I like that. Oh man, you do well. I like 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:58.440 it because of the alternative. Because remember what happened last 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:00.440 time when New Jersey did a bear hunt. Some killed 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.840 that bear pedals that had like the deformed feet. Oh yeah, 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:11.440 everybody liked it because it had no feet. John Muellen, 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:14.240 who's been on the show twice and I love the 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:16.880 guy to death. I'd like to strangle him for this, 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:25.399 rote an obituary of the bear. Great guy, great writer 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:31.520 wrote an obituary for petals was and it was when 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:33.920 he when when a hunter killed pebbles, it was reported 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:40.760 that Pebbles has been pedals had been assassinated. So where 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:42.560 was I seventy five pounds limit? 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:43.280 Uh? 0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:48.800 That is tricky. While the officials say the hunt is 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.360 the most effective way to prevent bear and human encounters 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:56.800 in densely populated in New Jersey. I can't remember how 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.040 many bear complaints they had. 0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:02.959 Well, well, so New Jersey resumed hunting in twenty twenty 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:06.040 two or bear hunting and so last year due to 0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:09.560 reports of the animals causing property damage and being a nuisance, 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:12.280 with reports of those up nearly two hundred and forty 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:14.880 percent since the previous year twenty twenty one. 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.840 Yeah, that's a lot. Flora's going to face a similar 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:22.000 situation Florida to try to bear hunt. They ran it 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:25.879 very conservatively. Everything went right, but they blew past their 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.280 their harvest quarter. Like you if you're doing a hunt 0:25:29.280 --> 0:25:30.840 and you have a harvest quota, a lot of times 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:35.320 you'll have to you'll check every night. Like let me 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:37.040 just let's say you have a hunt. You say that 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:38.800 there's a harvest quote of ten, and you open it 0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:41.280 up in this big area. Well, every day you're counting 0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:43.119 how many things get registered. But the rule is that 0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:46.440 it shuts off in forty eight hours because people need, 0:25:47.040 --> 0:25:48.520 you need time to spread the word, or it shuts 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:51.400 off in twenty four hours. So Florida hit their quota 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:55.560 way quicker than they thought. They closed it, but then 0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:59.119 the twenty four hour window made them blow past the quota. 0:25:59.200 --> 0:26:02.600 Everyone had such a conniption. Half the country looked, my 0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:06.400 half looking just like, man, there must be a lot 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.840 of bears. And then the other half looked and be like, man, 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:14.600 they killed all the bears. Just like different worldviews, right, 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:17.960 and there's there are they getting? They're gonna take another 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:19.679 shot at it? I believe in Florida, I don't know 0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:20.160 about that. 0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:23.879 Can I just jump back to Jersey for a second. 0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:28.280 So we're really only talking about two short weeks, so 0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:31.000 October ninth through the fourteenth and December fourth through the 0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:34.840 ninth as hunting days, so we're not talking about like 0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:38.760 a long season of months and months. So and then 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:43.439 it's it looks like on the first day of the season, 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:44.440 one hundred and five. 0:26:44.240 --> 0:26:47.000 Bears were killed on the first day. 0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:49.640 Can they bait out there? 0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:50.600 No way? 0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:54.480 Probably probably not. But and I don't know how. I 0:26:54.480 --> 0:27:00.239 don't know. Statistics sound like sounds like yeah. 0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:03.320 And they don't hibernate over there. Apparently, well, they stay 0:27:03.400 --> 0:27:06.840 up all year. I don't know if in December. 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:09.560 I bet they go down eventually, they probably intermittently. Maybe 0:27:09.560 --> 0:27:10.120 that's why they. 0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:16.080 Did the December hunt because they know they're. 0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:16.720 The you win this one, we're gonna give you a 0:27:16.800 --> 0:27:18.200 hunt in December. 0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:22.159 Oh, check this stuff out, so everybody knows f HF. 0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:27.080 You should know FAHF f HF gear, Fish Hunt fight 0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:29.960 all American made gear. If you like to hunt docks, 0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:31.560 we're here to talk about ducks. She just check out 0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:35.480 the So you know, like the biny rigs. If you 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:39.280 see our stuff, you all to see that that we 0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:42.080 wear a lot of f HF binyl rigs, which are 0:27:42.119 --> 0:27:45.040 the best vinyl rigs on the planet. Paul's been in 0:27:45.080 --> 0:27:49.000 the binyl rig game since the binyl rig game began. 0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:53.239 What's funny is our camera guys discovered that they had 0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:56.320 been on wasting all of this real estate on their bodies, 0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:58.320 and so they started wearing binyl rigs to carry their 0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:00.760 junk in it. So nice, Yeah, mos, like I can't 0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:03.359 leave my whole life. I just wasted this area in 0:28:03.400 --> 0:28:05.159 front of my body when I could have had all 0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:08.359 my shit there. So he started wearing binyl rigs and 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:10.600 just filling the full of batteries and lens wipes and 0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:12.640 whatever stuff you wanted. Like he'll he'll be in some 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:14.800 restaurant in Paris with a binyl rig on you know, 0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:22.520 filming anyhow. So eventually the FAHF binyl rig morphed into 0:28:22.600 --> 0:28:26.720 like a chest rig, just a gear rig, and FAHF 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:31.440 now has the waterproof chest rig. So for when you're 0:28:31.440 --> 0:28:36.280 out hunting ducks or I don't know, trap muskrats, you 0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:38.560 got a total waterproof rig, which I guess has been 0:28:38.560 --> 0:28:43.560 getting a lot of interest from various military groups that 0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:48.040 like that thing as well. So totally waterproof, submersible chest 0:28:48.080 --> 0:28:49.640 rig that you can keep someone you dunk and you 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:51.720 come up your phone and all your stuff still good. 0:28:52.400 --> 0:28:54.560 And then there's an E four of powers that attaches 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:56.600 to the main rig so you can accessorize the dickens 0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:59.000 out of it. And then the best thing on the planet, 0:28:59.000 --> 0:29:00.240 I don't know how it is one, I guess it's 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:04.200 fair those cows. Idea the cow pouch, which has changed 0:29:04.280 --> 0:29:05.680 my life because the cow pouch. 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:08.480 Oh that's what it's short for. I thought it was 0:29:08.520 --> 0:29:13.040 like short for Colbert kid. 0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:15.560 So it's a shell bag, okay, pictures. It's this little 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:18.560 square shell bag with a hand on it and a zipper. 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:21.640 You can dump three boxes of shells, like I think, 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:24.200 you know, it'll hold three boxes of two and three quarters, 0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:28.720 maybe three boxes at three inch. I know because we 0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:31.760 have the bird loads, I can dump twenty Well, okay, 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:34.560 let me say this. I know for a fact that 0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:37.440 for my kids, I can dump three boxes of twenty 0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:41.480 gage six shot in the bag. It's zips and it's 0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:44.800 like this square little bag. And then it's got a 0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:47.880 slit in it with a clear plastic window. So you 0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:50.480 cut out of the shell box what the hell is 0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:53.760 and slide it in the window and you can got like. 0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:56.760 So there's cameo side panels, there's orange side panels. When 0:29:56.800 --> 0:29:59.880 I organize mine, I know that the orange is upland shells, 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:02.560 the Campbell's waterfowl shells. Then I took a mark and 0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:05.040 wrote twelve twenty because my kids shoot twenties and I 0:30:05.040 --> 0:30:08.400 shoot a twelve. It's the greatest this year hunting youth duck. 0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:10.760 I took one of those bags, unzipped it, set it 0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:12.280 in front of all the kids, and everybody just shoots 0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:14.200 out of the thing. You're not messing around with boxes 0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:16.240 to get wet and fall apart. 0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:21.560 Cattle pouch, So philm has a lab named after him, 0:30:21.600 --> 0:30:24.360 and Cal is a pouch named after pouch steed. 0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:27.320 I also use that for dog food if I'm doing 0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:30.440 like a day tripper two daily trip, throw dog food 0:30:30.440 --> 0:30:30.640 in there. 0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:34.000 Works out great. I love it. No, it is a great, great, 0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:43.720 great idea. Yeah, it's called Steve Reno, just the same ring. Also, 0:30:43.880 --> 0:30:49.320 dsd's Honker Maximum line available this fall. DSD is Uh. 0:30:49.640 --> 0:30:53.719 Here's the thing about DSD decoys in such demand that, 0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:58.520 like I think, I hear more people are trying to 0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:01.320 I shouldn't say this because works again, DSD. You gotta 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:03.640 wait in line to get DSD decoys. 0:31:03.320 --> 0:31:07.640 Sometimes because they're so good. 0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:11.480 Yeah, I never realized this. People want those decoys, so 0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:13.680 get in line. Well, they're kind of getting all this 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:16.600 taken care. But just an enormous amount of demand for 0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:20.480 DSD decoys and their Maxima Honker line available this fall, 0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:25.040 and a brand new Maximum Full Bodies Geese full Bodies soon. 0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:29.680 Floaters are in stock now. Stackable sleeper shells will be 0:31:29.760 --> 0:31:32.200 back in stock soon as well. So if you're sitting 0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:35.840 around wonder why you gotta wait to get DSD decoys, 0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:39.560 it sounds like your problems are over. DSD has also 0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:43.600 re released their Deadly snow Goose decoys with more poses 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:46.240 in a brand new motion system that is user friendly 0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:50.120 and offers even more realistic movement than before. So check 0:31:50.280 --> 0:31:52.480 all that out, and while you're at it, check out 0:31:52.720 --> 0:32:00.440 the Duck and Goose calls over at Phelps Game Calls Jersey? 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:02.000 Should we talking about New Jersey? 0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:06.080 More crinn No, we already that was That's I'm joking. 0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:09.720 I have something on ducks. Oh please. 0:32:10.120 --> 0:32:12.040 So I don't know if you guys have seen it yet, 0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:14.800 but there's a meat Eater collab collab call coming out 0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:17.960 from seven thirty seven Duck Calls that is bad to 0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:21.920 the buzzes good. Yes, it the call runs awesome. We've 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:24.560 we've used their calls for a long time. But Matt 0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:26.720 just got the proof texted to him yesterday. We were 0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:28.960 on a call with those guys yesterday. But that call 0:32:29.040 --> 0:32:30.640 is going to be coming out in November. 0:32:30.960 --> 0:32:33.160 Yet one you got one in your pocket right now? 0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:36.800 I go. It's a limited sneak sneak peek on the picture. 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:38.800 So there's only going to be a couple hundred of them. 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:40.960 Oh really, So they're they're going to go like hotcakes 0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:42.400 and no one quick. 0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:43.480 Can you you can buy? 0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:44.040 It's going to. 0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:49.480 Guy that could help you acquire one. Yeah, man, that'd 0:32:49.480 --> 0:32:50.920 be cool. But they're they're awesome. 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:54.760 So Singler Double it's going to be a single single 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:58.520 read Yeah, so that'll be coming out early November. 0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:02.240 Yep X party really quickly introduce yourself to you. Come 0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:04.720 on all the time. Have you ever won trivia? Yeah? Yeah, 0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:08.760 A couple of times. Yeah, a couple of times before, 0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:09.440 a couple of times. 0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:11.720 Well I've I've been on the podcast a couple of times, 0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:13.680 but I haven't. I've only won trivia once. 0:33:14.360 --> 0:33:15.880 Great, was doctor Randall there? 0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:19.000 Doctor Randall was there? Was there? And you want to yeah, 0:33:19.080 --> 0:33:21.360 I want overtime. 0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:23.479 So no, I think the only reason why I'm here 0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:26.440 because I like ducks and I want to talk about 0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:27.720 ducks and learn more about ducks. 0:33:27.760 --> 0:33:32.360 So yeah, this case, he's taking dun pictures. He's like, 0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:33.719 look at all these ducks I killed, and I might 0:33:33.760 --> 0:33:35.200 where just a spot. 0:33:38.320 --> 0:33:41.280 It is a great answer. 0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:44.520 You should be able to black people's numbers based on 0:33:44.560 --> 0:33:49.360 what they text, like filters like gripping grinds. You got 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:53.280 to like opt in or out for their gripping grands man. Right, Oh, 0:33:53.320 --> 0:33:55.040 what's super cool is the guy right down the road 0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:59.560 in Belgrade, Montana, won the federal duck stamp contest. Have 0:33:59.640 --> 0:34:01.000 you guys heard of this artist before? 0:34:01.720 --> 0:34:02.720 I had not heard of him. 0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:06.959 No, I hadn't either. Chuck Black, He's gonna come on 0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:08.440 the show, but not for a while, right, m. 0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:10.480 H yeah, early early in the new year. 0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:13.359 Yeah, I was surprised how young you was. I don't 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:16.759 know what I was picturing. Good for him, you know 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:18.840 when I was picturing in my head Elliott West. 0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:22.279 He's in his seventies. 0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:27.040 I'll picture Elliott West. But yeah, like so he he uh, 0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:31.040 he's been in this business his whole life. Right, is 0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:32.080 that cracked? I'm asking you? 0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:32.960 Yeah? 0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:33.520 I mean. 0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:39.080 It looked like he started drawing at least when he 0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:39.600 was a kid. 0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:45.000 And he doesn't do just docs either. He does Kyle's 0:34:45.040 --> 0:34:47.040 Birds Elk Scenic. 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:49.600 It's incredible landscape stuff. 0:34:49.320 --> 0:34:51.120 Too, Yeah, painting. 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:54.080 Sorry, This this video that FIL's showing right here kind 0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:57.759 of documents the process, but it also shows him up 0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:01.760 in red rocks, up in Montanne getting the inspiration video 0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:05.480 for this duck. So this duck is actually like a 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:07.120 Montana duck, which is pretty cool. 0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:08.360 Steve, do you know what kind of duck that is? 0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:10.480 It's pin tail? Okay, just making sure tell you what 0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:14.759 we got. We got a we ate a pintail two 0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:16.759 nights ago that the end just got. He got an 0:35:16.760 --> 0:35:28.280 antelope punt of all things with the proper firearm. That's cool. 0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:29.160 Yeah, it's really cool. 0:35:29.200 --> 0:35:31.880 So congratulations Chuck blackfirst. So he'll he'll be on next 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:36.080 year's duck stamp, right. Yeah. Yeah, I was hunting. I 0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:38.719 was hunting and my kids, my boy and my daughter. 0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:40.719 My boy's old enough and my daughter's not old enough. 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:44.920 And he gets a buck and we get it all 0:35:44.960 --> 0:35:46.400 caught up and we're carrying it and we hit a 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:47.759 road and I'm like, oh, this world. To go to 0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:49.160 the truck. So I tell the kids you wait here, 0:35:50.000 --> 0:35:54.440 and uh, I'm gonna get the truck. And so they 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:56.200 want to go up to this little hill to look around. 0:35:57.320 --> 0:35:58.839 I come back a while later. I had to walk 0:35:58.840 --> 0:36:01.399 a mile come back or to be seen some honking horn. 0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:05.200 What the hell happened to him? Al said, Rosie comes 0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:08.840 running over the hill. We got at You got a coyot, Yeah, 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:13.400 just actually flea ridden this. Yeah, so we got all 0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:18.040 that skinned out. Oh dude, my ears. I had those 0:36:19.760 --> 0:36:23.160 bugs in my ears for the next two days coming 0:36:23.239 --> 0:36:25.200 off that thing. And then on the way out he 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:27.520 got himself a pintail. Nice, So you had a quite 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:35.520 nice little mixed bag. It's perfect antelope, coyote, pintail. Uh. 0:36:36.000 --> 0:36:36.960 Can we skip this one? 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:40.919 Yeah, we can skip the next one too. 0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:44.880 Well. I don't know this is bad news. Can we 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:46.400 just roll this into the other stuff? 0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:47.319 Mm hmm. 0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:48.879 Head. 0:36:48.920 --> 0:36:54.960 Last year duck hunter numbers on the decline. Mm hmm. 0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:58.200 So there was an uptick and duck hit duck hunter 0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:00.680 numbers during COVID and then an and then a slight 0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:04.680 decline afterward. Right they realized how hard it was. Yeah, kid, 0:37:04.840 --> 0:37:05.959 and they had to go back to work. 0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:07.839 Yeah. 0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:13.160 Oh, hunters begin Duck hunters drop out at around age seventy, 0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:18.279 which means neither of our presidential candidates are going to 0:37:18.320 --> 0:37:23.719 be duck hunting are in the duck hunting mix. Minnesota 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:29.279 mallard harvest numbers declining. Now, is this because of there 0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:31.480 aren't as many people out or because of some other issue? 0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:33.239 You guys should be able to answer this. I have a 0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:36.200 theory on it. Go ahead, Okay, let's do around and 0:37:36.239 --> 0:37:36.879 do a round table. 0:37:36.920 --> 0:37:40.759 I think these mallards are just getting smarter and when 0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:46.600 they're migrating through. I think they're just hitting the cities 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:50.640 and they just become city birds. You obviously can't hunt 0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:54.640 them in the cities, and I think that's where they're going. 0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:57.200 During the golf courses university campus. 0:37:57.160 --> 0:37:59.839 Well, yeah, I mean just like town parks too. Like 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:02.160 I mean even just driving around Bozeman too. You there's 0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:04.320 a bunch of city birds. 0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:08.439 We'll actually get to that really a little while. 0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:11.680 Great. Uh, I was talking about this with Matt and 0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:16.240 Brady here. We were talking about the way that if 0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:18.560 you go along the I ninety I guess it'd be 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:22.840 ninety four out there, right, ninety four corridor after Gooseyes, 0:38:22.880 --> 0:38:25.600 has been a running a while, and you see like 0:38:25.640 --> 0:38:27.520 all the places you'd expect to see a goose and 0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:30.400 he's not there. But they're piled up in the weirdest 0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:33.560 little spots basically like they got one foot in the highway. 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:36.640 They're like sun dudes yard, you know, I mean, like 0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:38.480 a pretty smart approach to it, man. 0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:40.840 Yeah, yeah, that's what I would do if I was 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:43.040 a goose and all my friends were getting shot, I'd 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:46.040 hang out somewhere like that for sure, like. 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:47.759 In the highway media. 0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:50.000 Yeah, yeah, somewhere right on the shoulder. 0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:50.520 Yeah. 0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:55.400 What what's fascinating is the the population numbers of mallards 0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:57.600 aren't necessarily down. I mean they kind of do this 0:38:57.680 --> 0:38:58.560 number regardless. 0:38:58.640 --> 0:39:00.759 Yeah, yeah, we've been we've been bound and around right 0:39:00.800 --> 0:39:03.560 with those numbers. I think we went under ten million 0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:05.600 this year, but we the height. 0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:08.520 Was what three three years ago we hit. 0:39:08.440 --> 0:39:13.120 Like thirteen million, fourteen million, and uh. But yeah, they 0:39:13.160 --> 0:39:16.200 basically cycle. A lot of it is cycling with the 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:18.879 may ponds up in the Dakotas where they where they 0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:21.200 use some of that data to. 0:39:20.960 --> 0:39:22.000 Estimate those numbers. 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:27.400 But then some interesting aspects is that it looks like 0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:34.040 some mallards are starting to overfly into into areas Nunavate 0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:37.400 territory further north where you're not where we don't have 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:40.880 anybody checking. But I was moose hunting on the Yukon 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:44.640 VC border and they were everywhere last year. 0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:46.200 Did you get one? I did? 0:39:47.080 --> 0:39:49.000 It was great. I made my. 0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:52.440 You know, I don't want to talk about that. 0:39:52.600 --> 0:39:53.400 No, no, no. 0:39:55.440 --> 0:39:56.919 I was just holding you say like, well, how big 0:39:57.000 --> 0:39:58.839 was your moose? Yeah? 0:39:59.280 --> 0:39:59.919 You got one? 0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:01.120 Well let's hear about it. 0:40:01.160 --> 0:40:04.960 Well, I'll tell you when you go to Register of 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:08.799 Moose online. There's a drop down where you enter how 0:40:08.800 --> 0:40:12.799 many brow times it has? Mm hmm. I had to 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:17.440 go all the way. No, No, you couldn't get there. 0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:21.799 You had to lie to drop down, didn't It ends 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:25.640 at nine? He just kept going it ends at nine. Yeah, 0:40:26.000 --> 0:40:28.760 I couldn't. The number was not high enough to accommodate 0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:32.920 the brows. Did your bull move ten? 0:40:33.840 --> 0:40:34.120 Wow? 0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:37.080 One more than nine? 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:48.719 This actually teased back up into the duck number thing. 0:40:49.560 --> 0:40:53.040 So Matt can talk about we we have a theory 0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:54.480 as well that I think. 0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:56.080 Well, and it's more of a question for you know, 0:40:56.200 --> 0:40:59.719 somebody like yourself, phils. So if population numbers continue to 0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:03.520 do this, but hunter harvest numbers are down when you 0:41:03.560 --> 0:41:08.560 look at how they actually gather that data for hunter 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:12.400 harvest numbers, they use a hip survey, right like everybody 0:41:12.440 --> 0:41:14.560 has to, you know, fill out a hip survey. 0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:16.399 I got two of those sitting on my desk right now. 0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:18.200 Well, here's the thing about a hip survey is they 0:41:18.200 --> 0:41:22.320 don't they they they max you out. They say thirty 0:41:22.400 --> 0:41:23.440 one or more. 0:41:23.200 --> 0:41:25.120 Two hundred yeah, oh is it thirty one or more? 0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:30.279 It's like eight to eleven, thirty one or more. 0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:32.680 I'm so high thirty one plus. 0:41:33.040 --> 0:41:36.040 Yeah, right, well, well, and most like guys that are 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:38.520 going hard are thirty one plus. But how do they 0:41:38.560 --> 0:41:41.800 get accurate numbers with thirty one or more? 0:41:42.160 --> 0:41:43.800 Yeah, let me hear the couple. Let me hear a 0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:45.600 couple of stats from this deal that we're looking at, 0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:48.200 and then then we can take off from there. So, 0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:53.000 for the first time in more than a half century, 0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.960 mallards were not the most common duck. This is from 0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:01.359 Twin Cities What is this newspap Twin Cities dot com? 0:42:01.360 --> 0:42:01.960 What the hell's at? 0:42:02.120 --> 0:42:03.640 Probably the Pioneer Press or something. 0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:07.120 Okay, for the first time in more than a half century, 0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:09.880 mallards were not the most common duck shop by Minnesota 0:42:09.920 --> 0:42:15.200 waterfowl hunters in twenty twenty two. Okay, Mallards were topped 0:42:16.080 --> 0:42:19.920 by both blue wing teal and ring neck ducks. Mallards 0:42:20.040 --> 0:42:23.279 had been the most harvested duck in the state since 0:42:23.320 --> 0:42:29.680 at least the nineteen sixties, and that's coming from Steve 0:42:29.800 --> 0:42:33.759 Courtz Waterfowl Specials for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:39.520 So here's some numbers. One hundred and twenty five eight 0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:44.400 hundred and twelve blueing teal last year, up from eighty 0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:48.920 one thousand, so significant incline from twenty Okay, so we're 0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:51.759 talking about twenty two and twenty one. In twenty one 0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:54.640 eighty one thousand blue I'm rounding. In twenty one you 0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:58.200 had eighty one thousand bluing teal, and twenty two you 0:42:58.280 --> 0:43:01.879 had one hundred and twenty six thousand blueing deal ring necks. 0:43:01.960 --> 0:43:08.040 Check this out. These are like wild fluctuations. Twenty one 0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:13.920 you had twenty nine thousand ring necks, twenty two seventy 0:43:14.000 --> 0:43:20.680 two thousand ring necks. So there you have like over 0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:23.640 two I don't know, two point twenty five whatever the hell. 0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:28.400 The mallard decline is not nearly as like as a percentage. 0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:30.839 The mallard decline is not. It's stark, but it's not 0:43:31.000 --> 0:43:34.879 like as stark as it's other declines. So or other increases. 0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:38.440 So you have those big creases increases then with mallards 0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:44.640 and twenty one eighty four thousand mallards harvested and twenty 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:49.080 two sixty three thousand mallards harvested, and then wood ducks. 0:43:49.400 --> 0:43:52.040 It's kind of like wood ducks are like wood duck 0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:54.600 number and mallard numbers are like nuts on a dog. 0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:58.840 I mean they're right in tight. Like you add eighty 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:03.279 four thousand mallards, eighty four thousand wood ducks sixty three 0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:06.359 and twenty two sixty two thousand wood ducks in twenty two. 0:44:06.400 --> 0:44:08.520 That's kind of incredible. Is that just coincidence? 0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:12.000 That's gotta be coincidence, right, So, so the bluing teal. 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:14.440 The reason that those numbers, my guess is you have 0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:16.680 to look at a weather severity for that that time 0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:19.320 of year, during that entire hunting season. 0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:21.680 My guess is it was a milder season winter. 0:44:22.120 --> 0:44:26.160 Yeah, so those otherwise they split yet exactly so blue 0:44:26.160 --> 0:44:30.319 wings like if they feel a northern wind, they go, 0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:32.359 got it. Like, the only reason that they would stick 0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:35.640 around in Minnesota is it's it's not it's not. The 0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:39.560 weather severity is not long enough and it's not strong 0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:41.839 enough for that to move them. The same thing for 0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:44.719 the ring necks, although ring necks are doing better. 0:44:44.520 --> 0:44:45.839 Now too, got it. 0:44:46.640 --> 0:44:51.279 The interesting part is on the mallard side that could 0:44:51.280 --> 0:44:54.080 be a hunter thing. I would imagine a little bit 0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:56.640 of that where those number because wood ducks are also 0:44:56.760 --> 0:44:58.839 bred in the state. I actually have a wood duck 0:44:59.160 --> 0:45:02.279 project right now in Minnesota trying to ask some of 0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:07.840 those questions. But uh, wood ducks are mostly bred in 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:11.840 the States, so those numbers shouldn't fluctuate unless hunter hunter 0:45:11.960 --> 0:45:16.200 numbers are a hunter what's the word ate effort is 0:45:16.600 --> 0:45:17.360 not equivalent. 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:21.240 This throws out this hits Max thing where it says 0:45:23.400 --> 0:45:27.960 it seems more ducks are avoiding Minnesota during their migration, 0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:34.480 at least when most hunters are in the field. M like, 0:45:34.560 --> 0:45:38.560 they fly over Minnesota like peace. They just fly around it. 0:45:38.600 --> 0:45:39.920 I just don't. 0:45:40.080 --> 0:45:41.640 I don't think they do that. 0:45:41.719 --> 0:45:44.759 I've never had for Minnesota hunters so bad, hunter's so 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:49.359 not bad, hunter's so good. Ducks avoid us. 0:45:49.239 --> 0:45:53.400 Docks will fly over Wisconsin. I've just never been asked 0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:56.719 ever species specific surveying. 0:45:57.640 --> 0:45:58.799 On my hip me neither. 0:45:58.920 --> 0:46:01.600 No, I've never been asked how many ring necks I've killed? 0:46:01.719 --> 0:46:04.200 How many Yorks? Yeah, well they must be doing I mean, 0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:06.160 they got some pretty precise damn numbers. They must be 0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:08.120 doing some kind of uh, they must be doing some 0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:09.240 kind of survey information. 0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:11.279 Yeah, so a lot of those surveys and this is 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:14.120 one state, right, Yeah, of course those will come from 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.040 wingbe harvest. If anybody knows what I think you guys 0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:20.640 talked about wingb's where you, uh, random number of hunt 0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:24.879 waterfowl hunters in the country are asked to cut off 0:46:24.880 --> 0:46:25.960 a wing and send them. 0:46:25.800 --> 0:46:29.560 In with that for years. One time it was a 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:32.320 lot of paperwork. It was a lot of envelopes. Yeah. 0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:34.480 Yeah, you just kept shooting them, didn't you. 0:46:34.560 --> 0:46:38.759 Well, yeah, motivated me to hunt more research. I was like, 0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:42.560 I don't want these suckers think I'm no good because 0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:44.680 they sent me all these envelopes. Man, and then they 0:46:44.760 --> 0:46:45.720 would take I'm lazy. 0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:48.520 On top of it, they'll have surveys at all of 0:46:48.560 --> 0:46:51.399 the w m a's or wildlife management areas well. They'll 0:46:51.440 --> 0:46:53.799 be where you have to go in and say and 0:46:53.840 --> 0:46:55.840 they actually check your bag and they're like okay, and 0:46:55.880 --> 0:46:57.160 then they extraple you can. 0:46:57.000 --> 0:46:58.279 Extract, so they do model it. 0:46:58.480 --> 0:47:00.880 Yeah, got it that they. 0:47:00.719 --> 0:47:03.080 Have not like specifically counted all of these ducks. 0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:06.040 I mean, if if I'm in my backwoods shooting wood 0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:09.279 ducks and stuff and nobody's nobody's asking that, because you're right, 0:47:09.360 --> 0:47:12.600 the only other survey direct survey is just a general 0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:14.240 number of how many ducks did you shoot? 0:47:14.800 --> 0:47:15.520 Which is the hip. 0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:17.759 Uh. 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:20.719 Can I tell you quick thing about wood ducks. It's interesting. 0:47:21.760 --> 0:47:26.600 One time when I was a kid, Uh, we would 0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:30.200 hunt wood ducks in their roost ponds that night. M hmm, 0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:37.879 and uh with a baby. I don't mean at night, 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:41.359 but I mean like it'd be you know, I'd hate 0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:43.319 to go there now and with a game warden and 0:47:44.160 --> 0:47:47.040 have them with a watch. You don't know what time 0:47:47.040 --> 0:47:49.160 it was. I mean I do remember, like we're like, 0:47:49.239 --> 0:47:52.200 you know, just it just was different. I don't know, 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:55.080 we just weren't aware of stuff. But I do remember 0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:58.240 like marveling at the sparks coming out. 0:47:58.080 --> 0:48:02.640 Of the the marl shot first light, last light. 0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:04.879 Right right at the end. Man, and it'd be uh, yeah, 0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:07.520 you'd be out with a flashlight trying to find down ducks. 0:48:07.520 --> 0:48:09.680 But it'd be like a great way to ruin a spot. 0:48:09.960 --> 0:48:12.799 That we had enough spots that you know, we keep 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:15.279 real busy for like five six days and we just 0:48:15.320 --> 0:48:19.000 blow every spot because it just ruins it. However, one 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:20.839 time we were cleaning wood ducks and had a wood duck. 0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:23.520 Check this out. You know what his crop had in it? 0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:26.880 What is it? A bunch of salmon eggs. 0:48:27.600 --> 0:48:29.719 Yeah, he's down. 0:48:29.520 --> 0:48:32.320 In the creek picking up salmon spawn. 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:35.759 Yeah, that's amazing. That you're you're so I don't know that. 0:48:35.960 --> 0:48:38.359 So I have a study look at using DNA from 0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:42.400 poop of ducks to do diet. We're trying to do 0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:44.320 a different way the original ways you go out, you 0:48:44.320 --> 0:48:46.439 shoot like two hundred birds, you figure out what they eat, 0:48:46.600 --> 0:48:50.200 like kind of like cropping outs. But instead we're using 0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:55.040 DNA analyzing of the feces and we're getting and we're 0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:57.799 matching up pretty well so far with like crop, but 0:48:57.840 --> 0:49:00.560 we're getting a ton of ton of the vege that 0:49:00.640 --> 0:49:03.520 you can't analyze because it's green veg. But the other 0:49:03.560 --> 0:49:07.200 thing that keeps coming up is is fish fish keeping 0:49:08.120 --> 0:49:11.799 with all the ducks. And my hypothesis right now is 0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:14.600 that it's bycatch. Right, fish are putting eggs on all 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:18.640 the vege and they're eating the vege there and they're 0:49:18.680 --> 0:49:19.960 taking it as bye catch. 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:25.600 There's no way that they're fish eggs. Oh oh, this 0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:27.200 was like a full fish. No, you know what a 0:49:27.239 --> 0:49:30.560 salmon egg looks like. Yeah, no, no, this isn't. This 0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:31.560 isn't by catch. 0:49:31.920 --> 0:49:36.480 I understand that might be like actually target because Mallard's orange, 0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:38.000 I understand. 0:49:37.680 --> 0:49:41.400 I understand, But you're thinking he's trying to eat weeds 0:49:41.440 --> 0:49:44.520 and catching fish or fish eggs. 0:49:44.200 --> 0:49:45.920 Fish eggs, eggs, eggs. 0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:50.160 Yeah, so we keep coming up with yeah, that was 0:49:50.200 --> 0:49:54.120 pissed for a minute. I'm with you, no eggs, eggs. 0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:57.880 Yeah, but they're in everything, gadwell, wigeon, everything we've been 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:03.280 studying to star though. Yeah, it's a complete different calorie 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:06.439 count that we've never really considered as far as I'm 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:08.600 as I as I see it. So it's kind of 0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:12.160 interesting that it's that I'm the woody. I'm sure maybe 0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:16.160 mistakenly got them, which is interesting in itself. But we've 0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:20.920 had mallards on bad diet in Minnesota. There's a paper 0:50:20.920 --> 0:50:23.000 out there, I think it's Minnesota where they would go 0:50:23.040 --> 0:50:26.120 into salmon ponds and actually catch some of the like 0:50:26.520 --> 0:50:27.440 fry Oh. 0:50:27.360 --> 0:50:30.480 No good, Yeah, Okay, Now, why do you think that 0:50:30.560 --> 0:50:35.200 a duck isn't Why do you think that a duck 0:50:35.280 --> 0:50:38.720 isn't selecting for vegetation that's coated in eggs. 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:42.720 That's a good question. I don't know. I just don't think. 0:50:43.120 --> 0:50:45.239 I mean, I don't know. I mean, they could be, 0:50:46.200 --> 0:50:46.920 but it would be. 0:50:48.360 --> 0:50:49.480 It. 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:52.680 It just wouldn't make sense right now, I guess I 0:50:52.719 --> 0:50:53.120 don't know. 0:50:53.440 --> 0:50:54.440 I mean, they you're saying. 0:50:54.440 --> 0:50:56.680 You're telling me they're like looking around at the veget like, Oh, 0:50:56.719 --> 0:50:59.880 that one's got a whole bunch of eggs. 0:51:00.040 --> 0:51:00.680 I'm going to eat that. 0:51:01.320 --> 0:51:03.040 Yes, they could do that. Well, I mean, I don't know, 0:51:03.120 --> 0:51:04.600 that's what I'm saying. That's what I mean, That's what 0:51:04.640 --> 0:51:05.880 I would be wondering. 0:51:05.920 --> 0:51:10.360 Because I mean, nobody's really tested the Colorado baby is 0:51:10.400 --> 0:51:11.160 calorie rich. 0:51:11.200 --> 0:51:12.520 I need to dive down and get that. 0:51:12.920 --> 0:51:15.239 Yeah, because you've got you've got things like Widgeon that 0:51:15.320 --> 0:51:19.360 are specialists on just veg right, so they're not even 0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:22.759 omnivorous really and so and they're still picking it up. 0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:24.360 So that's got to be bycatch. 0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:26.680 But you're right, I mean, this is completely new like 0:51:26.920 --> 0:51:30.440 that we that every time we analyze something. Fish is 0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:33.040 like ninety percent in all in all of the feces. 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:38.080 And what's that ninety percent? You said, Yeah, like of 0:51:38.080 --> 0:51:41.400 the samples we've collected, and that's you know, we focus 0:51:41.480 --> 0:51:44.800 on Mallards, Mexican ducks, Model ducks because it's in Texas, 0:51:45.120 --> 0:51:49.439 but we have sample you know, Wigeon, Gadwell, other stuff 0:51:49.520 --> 0:51:51.160 that that we've sampled. 0:51:51.160 --> 0:51:54.279 It's in ninety percent. It's not ninety percent of. 0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:57.680 The Oh yeah, it's in ninety percent of the samples, right, 0:51:57.719 --> 0:51:59.719 so that's a hot that's that's some amount of fish. 0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:07.319 Yeah, god it You know remember when, uh, when they 0:52:07.360 --> 0:52:10.120 banned lead shot for waterfowl, which have been what like 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:15.040 eighty eighty It was a good old ninety two when 0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:16.160 the band led for waterfall. 0:52:16.280 --> 0:52:19.280 Yeah, the legislation was late eighties and then it finally 0:52:19.320 --> 0:52:23.600 went into effects states. 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:26.239 Ahead of it though it was when Kirk Cobain died. 0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:27.160 Yeah, right around that. 0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:34.640 I don't know those are linked checks out. Uh. I 0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:38.319 used to tell people, but my understanding was that that 0:52:38.400 --> 0:52:42.600 they would the reason ducks were ingesting a lot of shots, 0:52:42.600 --> 0:52:44.439 they were picking it up as grit for their crop. 0:52:44.520 --> 0:52:46.000 That's correct, Okay, that is Yeah. 0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:47.880 I've heard other people say no, no, no, no, they're just 0:52:47.960 --> 0:52:51.000 getting it. No, no, they would, they were going they 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:52.440 would pick shot for their crop. 0:52:52.600 --> 0:52:55.279 Yeah, And there's been plenty of studies that showcase that 0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:58.799 that it's all it's all accidental pickup because they're going 0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:04.200 to get rock, right, grit, and it just the amount 0:53:04.200 --> 0:53:07.480 of lead shot at that time that was at the surface, 0:53:07.719 --> 0:53:11.960 you know, at the surface of the lake, sediment was 0:53:12.040 --> 0:53:14.840 really high so they were the probability of picking it 0:53:14.920 --> 0:53:18.800 up was really high. But then they did several studies 0:53:18.840 --> 0:53:22.560 where they just basically turned the sediment over and all 0:53:22.600 --> 0:53:24.120 of a sudden they don't pick it up. And then 0:53:24.160 --> 0:53:29.319 obviously when the lead band went into effect, there was 0:53:29.440 --> 0:53:31.839 studies ten years later, you know, two years later, five 0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:35.200 years later, ten years later, and constant decline of lead 0:53:35.440 --> 0:53:39.040 in in waterfowl. So because the sediment kept. 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:41.799 Bearing, the lead settled down. 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:44.920 So now all the leads way down there for someone 0:53:44.920 --> 0:53:46.239 else to have a problem with later on. 0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:49.960 Yeah, speaking of ducks eating stuff, I was always amazed 0:53:50.000 --> 0:53:52.279 as a fishing guy. You'd be out there during just 0:53:52.320 --> 0:53:56.600 an amazing hatch. I think it used to mostly be midges, 0:53:56.640 --> 0:53:59.480 I think, or mayflies, not so much the caddis, but 0:53:59.560 --> 0:54:02.279 you'd see those ducks get into an eddy where all 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:04.160 those bugs will be getting caught, and they would just 0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:07.440 be pounding away and he'd be like, oh, I thought 0:54:07.480 --> 0:54:09.680 you just state like white bread and let us leap. 0:54:09.920 --> 0:54:14.160 But well, the salmon fly hatch for the geese, I 0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:17.120 mean you watch those like during the salmon fly hatch, oh, 0:54:17.160 --> 0:54:18.920 you see those big broods of geese up on the 0:54:19.000 --> 0:54:23.040 bank shores, they're just smashing salmon flies. Oh yeah, like 0:54:23.080 --> 0:54:25.239 if you ever hit the samfly hatch right, which is 0:54:25.280 --> 0:54:27.480 incredibly challenging regardless. 0:54:26.880 --> 0:54:29.440 Like on Canada geese, Yeah, feeding on those. 0:54:29.400 --> 0:54:31.920 Oh you see whole brute. I mean you'll have you know, 0:54:32.200 --> 0:54:34.600 eight groups of groups of eight or whatever, and they're 0:54:34.640 --> 0:54:37.560 just smashing those those salmon flies. But I mean sam flies. 0:54:38.200 --> 0:54:41.680 I'm not a squeamish man. Yeah, but when you open 0:54:41.760 --> 0:54:46.160 up a crop, I'd never like to see. Uh. I 0:54:46.160 --> 0:54:49.000 don't like to see I don't like to see critters. Yeah, 0:54:49.719 --> 0:54:58.359 especially because they're still live. You know. It's like yeah, 0:54:58.360 --> 0:55:04.239 I was like, dude, come on some clover the right 0:55:04.280 --> 0:55:06.600 over there. I don't need to see all this. It's 0:55:06.719 --> 0:55:10.480 upset my meal plan. Phil. How'd you get interested in ducks? 0:55:10.800 --> 0:55:11.400 Duck hunting? 0:55:12.040 --> 0:55:14.560 Yeah, so now walk me through. Take me back to Russia. 0:55:14.880 --> 0:55:16.360 Yeah, it was cold. 0:55:17.160 --> 0:55:18.719 You never want a ducks in Russia because. 0:55:18.480 --> 0:55:20.359 You're probably yeah, we were. 0:55:20.480 --> 0:55:22.960 I was so you were born in Russia in Moscow 0:55:23.480 --> 0:55:24.400 talking Russian? 0:55:25.680 --> 0:55:28.680 Yeah, yeah, so my parents the way in Russia it works, 0:55:28.719 --> 0:55:30.319 you know, you just drop your child off in the 0:55:30.320 --> 0:55:33.200 middle of the woods and if they come back, it's okay. Yep, Yeah, 0:55:33.280 --> 0:55:35.759 that's what happened. It was January, so it's cold, but 0:55:35.800 --> 0:55:38.960 I made it. No, So we were we we got 0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:42.399 over to the States in eighty nine, and I think 0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:45.560 I was telling you, uh, the choice of two evils, 0:55:45.960 --> 0:55:47.160 Los Angeles and New York. 0:55:47.200 --> 0:55:49.560 And because you guys just weren't into the whole Russia. 0:55:49.200 --> 0:55:53.239 Scene, correct, Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know 0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:55.920 if you know. Note this, but a lot of Russians 0:55:55.920 --> 0:56:00.320 fall out of windows occasionally, just my chance and bears 0:56:00.360 --> 0:56:00.879 every time. 0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:07.239 Sure as we just learned with when why did name 0:56:08.760 --> 0:56:10.920 he was the most interesting man in the world for 0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:11.400 a few. 0:56:11.280 --> 0:56:17.840 Days the leader progosen Yeah, airplanes. 0:56:17.880 --> 0:56:19.759 Said like progos, and everybody's like, I wouldn't go near 0:56:19.760 --> 0:56:22.640 an open window. Sure enough. 0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:26.959 So yeah, anyway, so we got over, uh, and then 0:56:27.280 --> 0:56:31.480 my folks obviously had to work. And but then eventually 0:56:31.800 --> 0:56:34.640 my dad finally got enough cash and bought a shotgun 0:56:35.200 --> 0:56:35.920 and we went. 0:56:35.840 --> 0:56:38.040 Because how did he How was he even aware that 0:56:38.160 --> 0:56:39.600 hunting was a thing? This is the thing I was 0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:44.120 because my dad was raised by Italian immigrants, and the 0:56:44.760 --> 0:56:47.239 journey of becoming even aware that this is like a 0:56:47.280 --> 0:56:49.440 thing you can engage in is interesting, right. 0:56:50.080 --> 0:56:50.400 Yeah. 0:56:50.440 --> 0:56:54.520 So the interesting thing is Los Angeles has a lot 0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:59.440 of really great sporting plays area and he shot I mean, 0:56:59.480 --> 0:57:01.560 he hunted in Russia, so we wanted. 0:57:01.600 --> 0:57:04.400 Yeah yeah, yeah, so. 0:57:03.440 --> 0:57:05.319 So he wanted to do it, so he kind of 0:57:05.320 --> 0:57:08.600 got it. We started going to some of the sporting 0:57:08.640 --> 0:57:12.320 clays areas. Eventually I competed there and and then. 0:57:12.800 --> 0:57:15.160 Really, yeah, how good are you? 0:57:15.760 --> 0:57:18.840 I'm thirty one plus on ducks every year. 0:57:18.800 --> 0:57:28.000 So that's pretty good. Yeah, he quits at Yeah. 0:57:28.040 --> 0:57:31.440 So there's a place called Sultan Seed, do you know 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:35.320 what that That's where I grew So that's where we 0:57:35.400 --> 0:57:39.760 started hunting, mostly dove initially, and then uh started to 0:57:39.880 --> 0:57:44.680 hunt ducks. And that's where I shot my first dove 0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:46.640 when I was ten with my dad's twelve gage and 0:57:46.680 --> 0:57:49.240 I was probably the most expensive shot ever because you know, 0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:53.400 that set my entire life forward of putting a lot 0:57:53.440 --> 0:57:59.040 of money into this sport. And then we started hunting 0:57:59.080 --> 0:58:01.000 ducks and I loved it. I mean that's what we did. 0:58:01.040 --> 0:58:03.320 I didn't really get into big game because California is 0:58:03.320 --> 0:58:09.560 a hard place, especially without without private property and knowing 0:58:09.600 --> 0:58:10.800 people and all the time. 0:58:10.840 --> 0:58:12.400 I have a little bit of a hard time believing it. 0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:15.400 Look, I hunted a zone a ton. The only thing 0:58:15.440 --> 0:58:18.160 I got was a two by one. All those years, 0:58:18.720 --> 0:58:23.280 I was real proud and you should have been. Yeah, 0:58:23.320 --> 0:58:27.720 and it's it's just hard. And also my dad hunted 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:32.080 big game Russian style, which is a lot more drive 0:58:32.680 --> 0:58:33.720 driving with shotguns. 0:58:33.720 --> 0:58:36.600 There's no right, I'll say, with those giant Soviet helicopters. 0:58:36.720 --> 0:58:38.840 Yeah, yeah, first one of those. 0:58:40.040 --> 0:58:42.800 So it was completely different, right the way big game 0:58:42.880 --> 0:58:44.880 hunting here is. So I didn't really get into it 0:58:44.960 --> 0:58:48.960 until like fourteen fifteen. So until then I was I 0:58:49.000 --> 0:58:53.920 was duck hunting most weekends in LA. I was mostly 0:58:53.920 --> 0:58:56.040 I would tell them I'm just fishing because apparently fishing 0:58:56.120 --> 0:58:57.560 is okay, hunting not so much. 0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:00.720 So, so like when you had to explain where you'd been. 0:59:00.640 --> 0:59:07.640 Yeah, where were you this week? I was fishing, yeah. 0:59:05.480 --> 0:59:08.040 And so yeah, so I got into it, and then 0:59:08.120 --> 0:59:10.720 that sort of set my tone forward. I went to 0:59:11.560 --> 0:59:14.400 undergrad at UC Davis up in Sacramento. One of the 0:59:14.400 --> 0:59:19.160 reasons I went there besides getting in the hunting ducks yeah, uh, 0:59:19.320 --> 0:59:21.440 sack refuge and all of that is there. So it's 0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:22.120 great hunting. 0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:24.000 So did you know you're gonna be a duck researcher. 0:59:24.000 --> 0:59:26.000 At that point, I didn't. 0:59:26.320 --> 0:59:28.760 I thought I was going to be the guy in 0:59:29.480 --> 0:59:32.600 Jurassic Park that brings back all the dinosaurs. But then, 0:59:32.800 --> 0:59:34.360 and that's why I'm a geneticist. 0:59:34.800 --> 0:59:37.120 Oh you were interested in that? Oh yeah, do you 0:59:37.160 --> 0:59:38.200 remain interested in that? 0:59:38.480 --> 0:59:44.080 I I am, but it's impossible. Although well so I'm on. 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:44.920 I'm part of. 0:59:47.880 --> 0:59:49.480 The way. My kids understand it. 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:52.240 Yeah, yeah, so it's gonna be interesting. 0:59:52.360 --> 0:59:52.560 Yeah. 0:59:52.600 --> 0:59:55.200 So I'm on the board with a Reviving Restore as 0:59:55.240 --> 0:59:58.040 well as Colossal, the ones trying to bring back the mammoth. 0:59:58.400 --> 1:00:00.000 Are you on the advisory panel or the board? 1:00:00.520 --> 1:00:00.600 No? 1:00:00.680 --> 1:00:04.360 Advisory just like science, especially in fact, there's a meeting 1:00:04.440 --> 1:00:09.320 right now that I'm missing. But that's okay, that's good. Yeah, 1:00:09.360 --> 1:00:12.840 so I am interested in it. But to be fair, 1:00:13.000 --> 1:00:16.200 I got into fisheries at UC Davis. So I was 1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:20.960 doing trout Sacramento Purge, doing genetics on them, creating uh 1:00:21.720 --> 1:00:24.600 captive breeding programs for releases and stuff like that, looking 1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:27.600 at hybridation between red bands and rainbows and all this, 1:00:28.320 --> 1:00:31.360 and then I realized, like, I like talking about fish, 1:00:31.440 --> 1:00:35.040 but I really like talking about ducks. And so for 1:00:35.120 --> 1:00:38.880 graduate school, I went to Ohio at Wright State University. 1:00:39.520 --> 1:00:43.160 There was a guy there had the money that I needed. 1:00:43.200 --> 1:00:45.520 I told me I could do whatever I want, and 1:00:45.720 --> 1:00:48.800 it was perfect and the only the only difference is 1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:50.720 that I became a white tail hunter for a little 1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:56.440 while while in Ohio. I never understood this field hunting situation. 1:00:57.040 --> 1:00:58.400 Eventually I figured it out. 1:00:58.240 --> 1:00:59.080 But it wasn't for me. 1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:02.280 I like, I like the gop in wetlands and calling 1:01:02.320 --> 1:01:06.160 big spreads these types of things. But yeah, so, and 1:01:06.200 --> 1:01:13.200 that's where I dove into waterfowl research, primarily mallard complex. 1:01:13.280 --> 1:01:15.160 So I don't know if you know this. There are 1:01:15.280 --> 1:01:18.840 fourteen species of mallard like ducks all around the world. 1:01:19.520 --> 1:01:23.280 Here in North America we have the mallard, American black duck, 1:01:23.320 --> 1:01:25.320 two types of model duck Florida and West Golf Coast, 1:01:25.360 --> 1:01:26.200 and the Mexican duck. 1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:29.760 And those are all real tight sister species. 1:01:30.120 --> 1:01:34.800 Yeah genetically. Yeah, so those are the most recent recently 1:01:34.840 --> 1:01:36.200 diverged groups. 1:01:36.240 --> 1:01:38.760 So they diverged about half a million years ago. 1:01:39.080 --> 1:01:41.400 The rest of the group the African black duck, yellow 1:01:41.440 --> 1:01:44.560 bill duck, mallards duck in Africa, a couple spot build 1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:48.120 ducks in Asia, Pacific, black duck, New Zealand, gray duck, 1:01:48.360 --> 1:01:51.280 hawine duck, Laysan duck. Those are more old than about 1:01:51.400 --> 1:01:56.800 million two million year old divergence. Yeah, so I started 1:01:56.840 --> 1:01:59.800 diving deep into it, and we're gonna start getting into 1:01:59.800 --> 1:02:04.080 some some of this stuff that I am interested in. 1:02:04.160 --> 1:02:06.360 But more or less, what I do is I take 1:02:06.560 --> 1:02:10.760 genetic information, I ask questions in the evolutionary side, trying 1:02:10.760 --> 1:02:11.840 to get into nature, you. 1:02:11.760 --> 1:02:17.120 Know, you know, and now I know climate change. 1:02:18.600 --> 1:02:23.240 And then uh, but but I'm really big on management, right, so, 1:02:23.920 --> 1:02:26.600 and it's taken me over a decade to show how 1:02:26.640 --> 1:02:31.000 genetics can play in management, uh more applied aspects. And 1:02:31.040 --> 1:02:32.320 so how that kind. 1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:35.000 Of what you mean by that? 1:02:35.000 --> 1:02:38.080 That means, Uh, when I talk about genetics to a 1:02:38.080 --> 1:02:41.400 bunch of wildlifers, they usually like roll their eyes back 1:02:41.440 --> 1:02:43.400 and they're like, oh, this is gonna be abou drosophilo 1:02:43.520 --> 1:02:46.160 or mice or something like that, because that's that's what 1:02:46.240 --> 1:02:49.880 they've known what genetics is. And so they are just like, 1:02:50.080 --> 1:02:54.560 that's not applied. You know, band recoveries, telemetry units, you know, 1:02:54.720 --> 1:03:00.160 habitat server, that's applied. That's right, uh. And so and 1:03:00.200 --> 1:03:05.560 so you know, we finally come to this time point 1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:08.960 where these new methods that I was part of developing, 1:03:09.240 --> 1:03:12.320 developing and kind of bringing to the forefront. Lots of 1:03:12.360 --> 1:03:14.280 people use some of the methods that I do, but 1:03:14.760 --> 1:03:16.680 what it does is it allows us to get a 1:03:16.720 --> 1:03:22.560 snapshot of a genome of every individual for low cost 1:03:21.840 --> 1:03:26.680 and very quick. The turnaround times are quick quick enough 1:03:26.760 --> 1:03:30.280 that data can be attained within months and can go 1:03:30.360 --> 1:03:34.600 into models or anything else and actually feed feed into 1:03:34.720 --> 1:03:39.200 decision making. Before you know genetics, you go out, you 1:03:39.240 --> 1:03:42.200 shoot a bunch of birds or collect them from hunters, 1:03:42.360 --> 1:03:45.600 and sometimes it would take five six years just to 1:03:45.600 --> 1:03:51.000 get the data. It was hard. Computationally we weren't there. 1:03:51.560 --> 1:03:56.760 Methodologically we weren't there. But thankfully when I was coming up, 1:03:57.200 --> 1:04:01.439 all of that computers, sequencing technology, all of that kind 1:04:01.440 --> 1:04:04.360 of like came to a point where we were able 1:04:04.360 --> 1:04:08.480 to do some real world questions and applications with And 1:04:08.600 --> 1:04:10.560 obviously I did it on ducks. But if you look 1:04:10.560 --> 1:04:13.680 at what I've done, I've anybody anything that's got DNA 1:04:13.720 --> 1:04:14.320 and some money. 1:04:14.320 --> 1:04:15.560 You know, we work on So. 1:04:15.720 --> 1:04:17.120 Can you run test real cheap? 1:04:17.120 --> 1:04:21.040 When I send you bones, bones, bones are gonna be Yeah, 1:04:21.120 --> 1:04:22.200 how old are those bones? 1:04:22.320 --> 1:04:23.760 Ancient, ancient bones. 1:04:23.800 --> 1:04:25.360 I'd like them to be a lot of times are not. 1:04:26.640 --> 1:04:30.760 I would have to I've gotten some disappointing results. So 1:04:31.400 --> 1:04:32.520 but it was so deep. 1:04:32.760 --> 1:04:36.080 So we uh, the best we've done, and I would 1:04:36.120 --> 1:04:39.360 have to go to my Smithsonian colleagues is because they've 1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:42.520 got an ancient lab there where we work. And we 1:04:42.560 --> 1:04:45.800 did a one thousand, five hundred to one thousand year 1:04:45.840 --> 1:04:47.320 old bones out of Hawaii. 1:04:48.520 --> 1:04:49.160 Duck bones. 1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:52.680 And the fun part about this, in the same cave 1:04:53.560 --> 1:04:57.200 where Polynesians were eating, there was a laysand duck, a 1:04:57.240 --> 1:05:00.280 Hawaiian duck, and something they thought was a Hawaiian duck 1:05:00.360 --> 1:05:03.040 based on the bone morphology, turned out to be a 1:05:03.120 --> 1:05:05.920 northern shoveler from a lot of really yeah. 1:05:05.960 --> 1:05:07.720 And then they have butcher marks on the bones. 1:05:08.680 --> 1:05:10.560 I don't know. I didn't get to look at them. 1:05:10.840 --> 1:05:14.320 Oh uh no. Yeah, So so we sort of So 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:18.680 the paper that where we're going right now, so something 1:05:18.720 --> 1:05:23.000 that we can do we've got to study, hopefully published 1:05:23.040 --> 1:05:24.760 in a year or so as we finish up. But 1:05:24.840 --> 1:05:28.320 we've got mallards now sampled from eighteen hundred to today 1:05:29.000 --> 1:05:30.000 across space time. 1:05:30.240 --> 1:05:31.760 Really yeah. Yeah. 1:05:31.800 --> 1:05:33.480 So so where'd you get there. 1:05:33.480 --> 1:05:35.480 Where'd you get the eighteen hundred mallard from? 1:05:35.800 --> 1:05:39.640 They're from twenty seven partnering National Museum, So thank you all. 1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:42.680 Oh did you get anything from Cornell? We did, dude, 1:05:42.680 --> 1:05:44.920 we went to Cornell. We were at Cornell and they 1:05:44.960 --> 1:05:47.440 opened his door and we're in their their bird collection thing, 1:05:48.480 --> 1:05:50.760 and so you know, I asked, like, what apparently everybody 1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:55.600 in the planet asks, is you guys got any passenger pigeons? No, 1:05:55.680 --> 1:05:58.520 not passed with the helmet was yeah, yeah, and an 1:05:58.560 --> 1:06:01.480 Ivory built woodpecker. Everybody asked about the same birds so 1:06:01.560 --> 1:06:05.520 much to keep them the same drawer. They're like, oh, yeah, 1:06:05.520 --> 1:06:08.400 here's a drawer that like every like idiot wants to 1:06:08.440 --> 1:06:10.440 look into and they open it up and it's a 1:06:11.360 --> 1:06:15.120 passenger pigeons, ivybuilt woodpecker. Who else is in there? Just 1:06:15.120 --> 1:06:18.000 like the ones, the ones where people are like, uh, 1:06:18.080 --> 1:06:18.800 extinct species. 1:06:18.880 --> 1:06:22.240 Let me think for a minute, they have a labor. 1:06:24.000 --> 1:06:25.720 I think it was in that. I think that it 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:29.720 might have been in that thing. It was crazy man 1:06:29.760 --> 1:06:34.640 to hold one in the ivybuilt woodpecker. I used to 1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:37.160 dog on people, you know, when people are are like, 1:06:37.160 --> 1:06:39.640 oh I saw an ivorybuild woodpecker. And then they come 1:06:39.640 --> 1:06:42.920 out and be like, oh, you idiot, it was a 1:06:43.440 --> 1:06:47.479 appiliated woodpecker. Well, listen, I know a lot of people 1:06:47.520 --> 1:06:49.160 spend a lot of time out with out in the woods. 1:06:49.280 --> 1:06:51.040 I could have laid that down in the woods and 1:06:51.040 --> 1:06:56.120 they would have said, oh, appiated woodpecker. It's not it's 1:06:56.280 --> 1:06:59.480 very That is an excusable mistake. But point being, I 1:06:59.480 --> 1:07:01.840 bet they got some feathers if you hadn't thought of this. 1:07:02.560 --> 1:07:07.360 No, we're your genes, I suggested to a reviving restore. 1:07:07.800 --> 1:07:09.560 I'm talking about the mallards. They probably got some old 1:07:09.560 --> 1:07:10.080 ass mallards. 1:07:10.080 --> 1:07:10.360 Oh they do. 1:07:10.600 --> 1:07:12.600 We got eight of them. They're supposed to ship them. 1:07:12.680 --> 1:07:15.640 So we're doing we'd finished all the genetics. We're doing morphology, 1:07:15.720 --> 1:07:18.600 so we're doing three D scanning of their heads to 1:07:18.680 --> 1:07:21.640 look at change and bill. So they're feeding mechanism. And 1:07:21.680 --> 1:07:24.760 I'll explain why this is so important across time and space. 1:07:24.800 --> 1:07:27.120 You've no doubt read the book The Beak of the Finch. 1:07:27.360 --> 1:07:30.560 I have not, really. Yeah, well you might be like 1:07:30.720 --> 1:07:33.040 it might be too elementary for you. 1:07:33.160 --> 1:07:35.280 Yeah, probably, Yeah, we'll go with that. 1:07:36.560 --> 1:07:38.760 No, The Beak of the Finch, it's about how you 1:07:38.760 --> 1:07:43.000 can watch the bill size on finches. They you can 1:07:43.080 --> 1:07:47.160 watch the beak size on finches change in the Glopagos. 1:07:47.480 --> 1:07:50.160 You can like, I don't want to say in real time, 1:07:50.200 --> 1:07:51.880 but I mean it's amazing. Yeah. 1:07:51.920 --> 1:07:56.520 The Grants husband and wife group watched a new species 1:07:57.280 --> 1:08:01.680 evolve since they started studying Darwin's finches. 1:08:01.320 --> 1:08:02.000 On the galop Goos. 1:08:02.040 --> 1:08:05.640 What happened was two species came on one island bread 1:08:05.760 --> 1:08:08.760 made this thing what we call a hybrid. But the 1:08:08.880 --> 1:08:11.720 hybrid was so distinct from its parents the way the 1:08:11.760 --> 1:08:14.640 types of food that they ate, that thirty years later 1:08:14.720 --> 1:08:18.040 genetically they were just their own now, their own own thing. 1:08:18.200 --> 1:08:21.080 That's what Yeah, Okay, this book might detail for a 1:08:21.200 --> 1:08:24.600 layman the research, but it was these birds are colonizing 1:08:24.640 --> 1:08:27.200 a new area with different food resources, and as they 1:08:27.200 --> 1:08:29.080 come in and they're like whatever, they're trying to get 1:08:29.080 --> 1:08:32.000 into a seed that's a harder shellacked because they're in 1:08:32.000 --> 1:08:34.240 an area they hadn't been before. And you can watch 1:08:35.560 --> 1:08:40.759 selective pressures on those birds and watch their beaks change 1:08:41.240 --> 1:08:44.920 as they become accustomed to and have selective pressures applied around. 1:08:44.960 --> 1:08:47.200 Who's really good at getting seeds and that? 1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:49.360 And then you know, I think I had this conversation 1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:50.639 another podcast about like. 1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:57.360 Evolution, another podcasts, what others? There's others really. 1:09:01.080 --> 1:09:04.960 Anyways, like people are like, oh, evolution, what's that? Honestly, 1:09:05.000 --> 1:09:09.200 the only the only name of the game and nature 1:09:09.240 --> 1:09:12.360 and what evolution is is be as good or better 1:09:12.439 --> 1:09:15.400 than everybody else. Right, So all you're trying to do 1:09:15.760 --> 1:09:19.040 is limit competition, and the good or better is that 1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:22.160 you either survive better and or have more babies. 1:09:22.720 --> 1:09:22.880 Right. 1:09:23.040 --> 1:09:24.880 The more babies you have, the more genes that are 1:09:24.880 --> 1:09:28.360 on the landscape, and thus you're winning. And so nature 1:09:28.840 --> 1:09:35.120 in island systems like the Galapagos are so interesting because 1:09:35.160 --> 1:09:38.200 it's so fast there, right, the pressures are like nope, 1:09:38.200 --> 1:09:40.760 you didn't eat, you die. That's that's what we call 1:09:40.840 --> 1:09:43.400 a selective pressure of one where it's like no, those 1:09:43.479 --> 1:09:46.839 genes are gone. And so it's so much faster for 1:09:48.080 --> 1:09:52.639 adaptations to arise or go extinct because the ecology changes 1:09:52.680 --> 1:09:54.280 so quickly and everything. 1:09:56.439 --> 1:10:01.720 God's going somewhere with that those I don't know hmm, oh, no, 1:10:01.760 --> 1:10:05.160 I want need to ask you. I want to get 1:10:05.160 --> 1:10:09.160 to this whole thing with mallards and mallard like when 1:10:09.200 --> 1:10:11.960 you let pretend ducks go. Yeah, Okay, I want to 1:10:11.960 --> 1:10:16.240 get to that, but give me an example of how 1:10:16.360 --> 1:10:19.160 genetics could play into management. Like, I don't get it, Like, 1:10:19.200 --> 1:10:23.640 give me a concrete, specific example of how genetic analysis 1:10:23.640 --> 1:10:24.799 would play into management. 1:10:25.360 --> 1:10:27.639 Yeah, so I'll give you a study that we're doing 1:10:27.720 --> 1:10:30.400 right now. So, the model ducks on the West Golf 1:10:30.400 --> 1:10:32.759 Coast have been declining in size. 1:10:32.800 --> 1:10:34.200 Okay, slow that down, say that again. 1:10:34.360 --> 1:10:38.599 Model ducks on the Gulf Coast regions of Texas and Louisiana, Ghostly, 1:10:38.720 --> 1:10:43.120 Texas have been declining and the surveys they were doing. 1:10:44.240 --> 1:10:47.160 But at the same time in West Texas, so the 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:48.479 brush country of West Texas. 1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:49.040 Have you been there? 1:10:49.120 --> 1:10:49.320 Yep? 1:10:49.800 --> 1:10:51.160 Does e Averynthy know what I'm talking about? 1:10:51.280 --> 1:10:54.799 Lots of ran that Johnny Cash song. I've been everywhere, man. 1:10:54.960 --> 1:11:02.320 That's me and ya in America, in America, America. Uh 1:11:02.360 --> 1:11:05.679 and anyway. So there's a bunch of brown looking birds. 1:11:05.680 --> 1:11:07.360 So if you've never looked at a model duck, it's 1:11:07.360 --> 1:11:08.799 a it's a brown looking mallard. 1:11:09.160 --> 1:11:09.439 People. 1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:14.040 Yeah, everybody's like people mistake them, right, Yeah. But the 1:11:15.040 --> 1:11:18.040 Texas Parks and Wildlife wants to do surveys to be like, Okay, 1:11:18.160 --> 1:11:21.920 is this a population crash are the population shifting? And 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:24.720 for that they needed to know what the heck these 1:11:24.760 --> 1:11:28.559 things are from an aerial perspective. So then they contacted me, 1:11:28.600 --> 1:11:32.760 and what we did was we took We took birds. 1:11:32.640 --> 1:11:33.360 We collected. 1:11:33.520 --> 1:11:36.479 In fact, you were having a discussion about does anybody 1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:38.960 go out scientific collecting with a shotgun anymore? 1:11:39.200 --> 1:11:41.080 Oh? Yeah, with your fowling piece. 1:11:41.200 --> 1:11:49.480 That's that's what we do in May. So we go out, 1:11:50.560 --> 1:11:51.400 I'm free. Yeah. 1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:55.519 Does that count in the survey? 1:11:55.560 --> 1:11:56.400 Do you put down. 1:11:58.600 --> 1:11:59.200 Extra? 1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:00.240 No? 1:12:00.400 --> 1:12:03.280 So, so we need to have breeding pairs, right, So 1:12:03.320 --> 1:12:05.559 we took hunter harvest. We took out anything we could, 1:12:05.640 --> 1:12:08.920 but we needed also what is breeding in this landscape? 1:12:09.280 --> 1:12:12.120 So we went all the way from I'm from Texas, 1:12:12.120 --> 1:12:15.400 but I don't know anything about Texas, so like Dallas 1:12:15.520 --> 1:12:19.479 all the way to the Mexico Texas border, right, ye. 1:12:20.200 --> 1:12:25.040 And so because there's another situation happening. Mexican ducks, which 1:12:25.080 --> 1:12:28.559 is another type of mallard like duck, are expanding out 1:12:28.560 --> 1:12:30.880 of Mexico nor kind of like a bomb out of 1:12:30.920 --> 1:12:37.000 Mexico into Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. There's even breeding pairs 1:12:37.000 --> 1:12:39.400 that we genetically that in Colorado. 1:12:39.000 --> 1:12:40.120 Was fly right over the wall. 1:12:40.320 --> 1:12:45.759 They just imagine that thought they would dig under anyway. 1:12:45.880 --> 1:12:50.080 So we did this, So we went from one end 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:53.880 to the other and lo and behold, both of them 1:12:54.080 --> 1:12:56.720 came in because and so on the one side, if 1:12:56.720 --> 1:12:59.200 you get all the way to about San Antonio and 1:12:59.280 --> 1:13:02.720 you draw a line model ducks, then something that we 1:13:02.800 --> 1:13:07.000 didn't expect but hypothesize model duck Mexican duck hybrids in 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:09.920 this tiny band, and then all of a sudden, just 1:13:10.040 --> 1:13:13.080 Mexican ducks. So they're both coming in and interbreeding in 1:13:13.120 --> 1:13:13.759 this location. 1:13:14.160 --> 1:13:19.679 So the model ducks are declining, but what's replacing them 1:13:19.920 --> 1:13:21.240 is is. 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:24.280 High modeled duck, more model ducks and potentially these hybrids. 1:13:24.320 --> 1:13:26.639 So we did, what do you call the hybrids a. 1:13:26.600 --> 1:13:30.280 Mexican duck, model duck hybrid, Mexican. 1:13:29.880 --> 1:13:32.240 Model Okay, what do you call it? Two generations later, 1:13:32.720 --> 1:13:33.360 So that's what. 1:13:33.479 --> 1:13:36.280 So we're looking at how many generations they can interbreed. 1:13:36.320 --> 1:13:39.080 It seems like we're picking up back crosses, which means 1:13:39.160 --> 1:13:42.559 like geographically, if you're closer to the model duck group, 1:13:42.640 --> 1:13:44.720 you back cross into model duck and you become more 1:13:44.760 --> 1:13:47.320 and more model duck. Is on the other end, close 1:13:47.360 --> 1:13:51.639 to the Mexican border, their back crossing into Mexican ducks 1:13:51.680 --> 1:13:54.679 and so they become more Mexican duck like. But there's 1:13:54.720 --> 1:13:59.840 this band, this this really narrow what we call con 1:14:00.080 --> 1:14:05.080 tack zone where there it's just hybrids, which is completely new. 1:14:05.320 --> 1:14:07.760 But they're totally healthy there as far. 1:14:07.960 --> 1:14:11.600 So that's that's part of the diet analysis. With the feces, 1:14:12.600 --> 1:14:19.120 We're looking at bill morphology, muscle fiber morphology to understand 1:14:19.160 --> 1:14:21.360 can they still fly the same, do they feed the same? 1:14:21.960 --> 1:14:25.360 What you know? Is there anything that would suggest these 1:14:25.400 --> 1:14:29.400 are less adapted than their parents? 1:14:29.760 --> 1:14:29.960 Yep. 1:14:30.520 --> 1:14:32.880 So anyway, so the point of this, how to get 1:14:32.920 --> 1:14:38.360 back to your question, how does genetics uh provide applied aspects? 1:14:38.680 --> 1:14:41.000 So that data right, So I plot all that on 1:14:41.040 --> 1:14:44.120 a map so everybody understands what's happening. That data is 1:14:44.120 --> 1:14:46.639 now fed back to Texas Parks and Wildlife to say, okay, 1:14:46.680 --> 1:14:48.920 we need to go in these regions to ban because 1:14:48.960 --> 1:14:51.160 our probability of getting a model duck, because that's what 1:14:51.160 --> 1:14:54.080 we care about, is really high, and so we're going 1:14:54.120 --> 1:14:56.479 to ban there. But on top of it, they're shifting. 1:14:56.720 --> 1:15:01.719 They're going to be shifting surveys over and start counting 1:15:01.760 --> 1:15:06.120 those ducks. So again, a population decline versus a population 1:15:06.320 --> 1:15:09.320 rain shift have very different management implications. 1:15:09.400 --> 1:15:09.639 Yeah. 1:15:09.880 --> 1:15:12.160 Right, So this is how it's feeding into that. And 1:15:12.520 --> 1:15:18.439 we've got studies in Hawaii, Arizona, all American Samoa doing 1:15:18.479 --> 1:15:21.439 similar things, trying to tell them what they're working with 1:15:21.600 --> 1:15:31.000 and how the genetics plays on the landscape. 1:15:35.120 --> 1:15:38.240 Here's a question about genetics and how it's applied. Manage 1:15:39.000 --> 1:15:44.759 it be. I'll start with a story years ago, almost 1:15:44.800 --> 1:15:49.920 been in the early nineties. I was hunting ducks on 1:15:49.920 --> 1:15:53.759 the Saint Mary's River, which separates Michigan's Upper Peninsula from Canada. 1:15:56.080 --> 1:16:01.840 And I remember getting checked by state and federal game warden, right, 1:16:01.920 --> 1:16:03.519 I remember I had. I was like, I'm sitting there 1:16:03.520 --> 1:16:06.360 with the hen Mallard and I remember they're going, what 1:16:06.439 --> 1:16:08.400 kind of duck is that? Yeah? And I was like 1:16:08.439 --> 1:16:11.040 the fact that he asked me that makes me think 1:16:11.040 --> 1:16:13.320 that that's not what I think it is. So I'm 1:16:13.320 --> 1:16:19.599 Michael Black duck good. You know, that's sure. I only 1:16:19.640 --> 1:16:25.640 said that because you brought it up. So if oftentimes 1:16:25.640 --> 1:16:30.799 you'll find when people are pointing out endemics, they're pointing 1:16:30.800 --> 1:16:34.760 out hybrids. It's like they're they're really down to the 1:16:34.840 --> 1:16:37.439 nats ass and they're like parsing things out that to 1:16:37.560 --> 1:16:40.639 a layman, they might not even. 1:16:40.479 --> 1:16:43.559 Notice if you if you don't know what you're looking for. 1:16:43.760 --> 1:16:46.120 Yeah. So if you had to take like duck knowledge, 1:16:46.240 --> 1:16:48.559 like average duck knowledge, I know, yeah, and then you 1:16:48.600 --> 1:16:50.679 put it on a spectrum of one to ten. Yeah, 1:16:51.160 --> 1:16:54.360 and you got to be like a ten point five 1:16:54.840 --> 1:16:56.920 to go down to this place in Texas and pick 1:16:56.960 --> 1:16:58.839 up one of those ducks and be wait a minute, 1:16:59.520 --> 1:17:04.000 this is a modeled Mexican Mexican hybrid or would it 1:17:04.160 --> 1:17:06.240 just be to a duck hunter, it would just be like. 1:17:06.800 --> 1:17:08.479 It would be called a dusky duck, because that's what 1:17:08.479 --> 1:17:12.760 they call him right now. So Texas, Texas, I think 1:17:12.800 --> 1:17:17.280 Arizona has a dusky duck limit and it's usually one 1:17:17.360 --> 1:17:20.120 or two. And they just say anything that's equivalent to 1:17:20.280 --> 1:17:22.120 a black duck, a model duck, a Mexican duck. 1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:23.519 I'll go here now, New Mexico. 1:17:24.080 --> 1:17:30.280 They're bundling black ducks, model ducks, dusky ducks. I'm sorry, Mexican. 1:17:30.800 --> 1:17:33.320 What's what's the name Mexican Mexican duck. It's just the 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:37.960 Mexican ducky Mexican duck. That a black duck. 1:17:38.040 --> 1:17:39.559 Yeah, all I want. 1:17:40.720 --> 1:17:42.040 They're just calling them all dusky. 1:17:42.439 --> 1:17:46.320 That's that's in the game game rules. Yeah, that's in 1:17:46.320 --> 1:17:48.040 the hunting REGs. Uh. 1:17:48.080 --> 1:17:51.720 And so, so sell me on this, Sell me on 1:17:51.800 --> 1:17:53.840 the what you're talking about here, like the Mallard thing 1:17:53.840 --> 1:17:55.760 that we're gonna get to. I get. But sell me 1:17:55.840 --> 1:17:56.919 on why this matters. 1:17:57.760 --> 1:17:59.840 Oh well, I mean this would matter if we don't 1:18:00.200 --> 1:18:04.040 any If model ducks are declining at the rates that 1:18:04.080 --> 1:18:07.120 they are in the Gulf Coast region, then Texas Parks 1:18:07.120 --> 1:18:09.280 and Wildlife is probably gonna have to make some serious decisions. 1:18:09.320 --> 1:18:11.679 But they're being replaced by right. 1:18:11.840 --> 1:18:15.280 But if they're not, they're being replaced, which we didn't know, 1:18:15.720 --> 1:18:18.040 so now we have to understand. All right, so they're 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:21.280 being replaced. They're not being replaced, they're making more. Right, 1:18:21.360 --> 1:18:24.240 that's what a contact zone. They keep coming together and 1:18:24.280 --> 1:18:27.519 it's like fringe. They're at the fringe of both of 1:18:27.600 --> 1:18:30.200 their ranges. And this is what happens. It's kind of 1:18:30.360 --> 1:18:34.679 like a growler grizzly polars on the fringes are starting 1:18:34.720 --> 1:18:39.240 to yeah, are starting to interbreed more and more. Right, 1:18:39.880 --> 1:18:43.120 And so now it's a question of all right, Like, 1:18:43.360 --> 1:18:46.320 so we have this situation not only do my maps 1:18:46.360 --> 1:18:49.240 allow people who are really interested in hybrids go there, 1:18:49.880 --> 1:18:53.320 but also that it dictates, all right, so what do 1:18:53.400 --> 1:18:55.679 we do with these types of birds? So Texas Parks 1:18:55.680 --> 1:18:59.120 and Wildlife may have to have additional season or additional 1:18:59.640 --> 1:19:03.920 inform for those areas, those regional areas. On top of it, 1:19:04.000 --> 1:19:07.040 how do what do they mean towards model duck or 1:19:07.160 --> 1:19:11.479 Mexican duck conservation? Like, how do they count towards those numbers? 1:19:11.920 --> 1:19:14.160 I can't tell you because they're the ones making the 1:19:14.280 --> 1:19:17.400 rules and I'll leave them to that. But we're there 1:19:17.479 --> 1:19:21.440 to supply the information, the maps, the idea, the knowledge 1:19:21.560 --> 1:19:23.800 of what's occurring on the landscape, and they can then 1:19:23.920 --> 1:19:26.920 use that to make better decisions outside of just being 1:19:26.920 --> 1:19:29.360 like they're all brown ducks, I guess it's let's. 1:19:29.160 --> 1:19:29.799 Just call them. 1:19:30.160 --> 1:19:35.120 So were there human causes? Is it of interest? Because 1:19:35.160 --> 1:19:39.320 it's like human behavior, human landscape changes are leading to 1:19:39.400 --> 1:19:41.519 this collision. Because I could see that, then you'd be like, well, 1:19:41.560 --> 1:19:43.439 now we're forced to pay attention to it because we're 1:19:43.439 --> 1:19:44.200 making it happen. 1:19:44.479 --> 1:19:47.960 So that's that's definitely a question so one of the 1:19:48.160 --> 1:19:51.479 issue on the Gulf Coast is eroding habitat. That's that's 1:19:51.520 --> 1:19:54.160 a thing, right. So the question is then, all right, 1:19:54.240 --> 1:19:58.480 so is that eroding habitat causing decline, you know, survival 1:19:58.560 --> 1:20:02.240 and fecundity, baby making and that's why we're seeing a 1:20:02.280 --> 1:20:03.759 decline or are those birches leaving? 1:20:04.360 --> 1:20:04.559 Right? 1:20:04.600 --> 1:20:05.320 So that was. 1:20:05.000 --> 1:20:07.520 They're losing X thousands of acres away? 1:20:07.680 --> 1:20:09.799 Yeah, is it wetland food stuff? 1:20:10.680 --> 1:20:10.960 Both? 1:20:11.080 --> 1:20:13.719 I mean, it's wetland and then it turns into food stuff. 1:20:13.800 --> 1:20:17.679 So so, but what's interesting as I was driving around 1:20:17.800 --> 1:20:22.799 West Texas is and noticing all these large, high fenced 1:20:23.320 --> 1:20:28.720 preserves that have really beautiful stock tanks and corn everywhere, 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:31.240 and nobody there wants to shoot a mallard because they 1:20:31.280 --> 1:20:34.559 got to shoot that Neil guy over there. So my 1:20:34.720 --> 1:20:38.240 hypothesis currently is they're both moving in because the habitats 1:20:38.320 --> 1:20:41.280 actually there. It's man made, but it's there year round. 1:20:41.600 --> 1:20:44.000 Nobody's shooting them, at least as far as we. 1:20:43.960 --> 1:20:50.320 Can tell, only a little bit. Oh no, oh, you know, 1:20:50.720 --> 1:20:53.240 he's doing it a little bit on the in the 1:20:53.720 --> 1:20:56.120 in the places with the nil guy and then the 1:20:56.120 --> 1:20:59.479 beautiful ponds, and you're like my god, the ducks. Yep, 1:21:00.320 --> 1:21:02.520 they'll now and then get some yeah. 1:21:02.880 --> 1:21:04.120 Yeah, so and I. 1:21:04.120 --> 1:21:06.160 Walk around being like that is all I would do, 1:21:06.680 --> 1:21:07.160 so so. 1:21:07.160 --> 1:21:07.800 Yeah, so I would. 1:21:07.960 --> 1:21:09.200 Uh you know. 1:21:09.240 --> 1:21:12.040 The funny thing is I contacted a bunch of landowners 1:21:12.040 --> 1:21:15.759 and I went on some other podcasts asking for help, 1:21:16.880 --> 1:21:19.920 and I got contacts and but then like I was 1:21:19.920 --> 1:21:23.040 in Texas and then nobody, like, nobody like called me up. 1:21:23.080 --> 1:21:24.479 So I had an outfitter out there. 1:21:24.680 --> 1:21:26.560 Uh, what part of Texas are you interested in? I 1:21:26.560 --> 1:21:27.479 could probably help you. 1:21:27.600 --> 1:21:30.920 It's more or less all of West. We went from, 1:21:31.080 --> 1:21:36.040 like I said, Houston, Dallas area all the way to the. 1:21:35.520 --> 1:21:39.080 The so west of that is. I'm trying to figure 1:21:39.040 --> 1:21:40.040 out West Texas. Yeah. 1:21:40.080 --> 1:21:43.479 So if you draw a line you know that way 1:21:43.600 --> 1:21:46.280 and all the way south like that triangle. 1:21:46.600 --> 1:21:48.519 Yeah, well have you yeah, I feel like I know, 1:21:48.680 --> 1:21:50.080 Well we'll talk about later. 1:21:50.160 --> 1:21:50.559 Yeah. 1:21:50.680 --> 1:21:52.400 Yeah, I think I know all kinds of people who'd 1:21:52.479 --> 1:21:53.639 let you go out there and do it with your fill. 1:21:53.840 --> 1:21:56.160 Well they say yes, and then I'm like, I'm I'm 1:21:56.240 --> 1:21:58.960 in your area, you know, calling them, and nobody's calling 1:21:58.960 --> 1:22:01.360 me back because they're like oh, And I told him 1:22:01.360 --> 1:22:03.080 I'd always be like look blinders on. 1:22:03.200 --> 1:22:04.240 Let me go to your pond. 1:22:04.560 --> 1:22:06.680 But what's that? What's the what's the Remember the guy 1:22:06.760 --> 1:22:09.440 we had those dudes we had on about the oslots. 1:22:10.000 --> 1:22:17.200 Uh huh yeah, the c yeah name, I mean, yeah, 1:22:17.360 --> 1:22:20.080 this is gonna be my contribution to American science. 1:22:21.200 --> 1:22:23.120 I will find you a bunch of places to go 1:22:23.160 --> 1:22:23.799 get your ducks. 1:22:24.120 --> 1:22:26.200 Well, yeah, that would be great because we have a 1:22:26.240 --> 1:22:26.719 few more. 1:22:28.120 --> 1:22:33.080 We have a few counties that are pretty poorly uh 1:22:33.120 --> 1:22:37.120 sampled and uh and they're right like you know, we 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:40.400 could shift that line of where the zone is potentially 1:22:40.400 --> 1:22:42.080 a few miles this way or a few miles that 1:22:42.120 --> 1:22:44.519 way by getting them, and that would shift there. 1:22:44.600 --> 1:22:46.479 Do you like to be close to the Gulf coast though? 1:22:47.160 --> 1:22:52.679 No, No, those are all model ducks, like you know. Yeah, 1:22:52.680 --> 1:22:55.080 we went from to be fair, we went from Louisiana 1:22:55.280 --> 1:22:58.479 all the way across and it was model duck, model duck, 1:22:58.520 --> 1:23:00.479 model duck, model duck, and all all of a sudden, 1:23:00.600 --> 1:23:03.600 this like new genetic variant which are which now we 1:23:03.680 --> 1:23:06.400 know are these hybrids and hybrids and then it goes 1:23:06.520 --> 1:23:10.280 Mexican duck. So it's this very clean, sort of interesting 1:23:10.360 --> 1:23:14.599 story that will be hopefully publishing soon and figuring that out. 1:23:14.800 --> 1:23:17.200 You draw a picture of Texas and show me where 1:23:17.240 --> 1:23:20.200 you wish you could be. 1:23:22.000 --> 1:23:24.800 Where is that to. 1:23:24.400 --> 1:23:26.960 Draw the little corn kernels in the pond too? Yeah, 1:23:27.200 --> 1:23:32.679 just like exactly, Okay, there's Texas. Let's do that. 1:23:32.960 --> 1:23:35.439 I think that whole area I think. 1:23:36.680 --> 1:23:42.120 As tip of Texas going north. 1:23:42.560 --> 1:23:45.200 Oh this way, wait, no, that way. 1:23:46.000 --> 1:23:46.519 There you go. 1:23:49.600 --> 1:23:56.519 So Philip, you turned this camera, here's Texas. You know, 1:23:57.200 --> 1:23:59.240 you know everybody points us out. Do you know that 1:23:59.280 --> 1:24:02.719 you could fit EXAs, California and Molsta Montana into Alaska? 1:24:03.360 --> 1:24:04.040 Is that amazing? 1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:07.240 I don't mean to masculate you Texans, but especially when 1:24:07.280 --> 1:24:08.800 I'm trying to hit you up. If You're in this 1:24:08.840 --> 1:24:13.080 little honey hole and you got one of them sweet 1:24:13.080 --> 1:24:19.040 ponds called doctor Phil, called doctor Phil, doctor Phill, He's 1:24:19.040 --> 1:24:21.960 gonna be like, homet what the other doctor Phil. 1:24:22.280 --> 1:24:24.640 You can also write the meat Eater podcast at the 1:24:24.640 --> 1:24:25.479 meat Eater Doctor and. 1:24:25.439 --> 1:24:32.360 Have the subject line be fowling piece. Yeah, sure know 1:24:32.400 --> 1:24:33.200 what you're talking about. 1:24:35.160 --> 1:24:35.320 Yeah. 1:24:35.400 --> 1:24:38.839 So that's that was a long way of showing how 1:24:39.000 --> 1:24:42.040 where genetics has come into play. I mean, you gotta 1:24:42.120 --> 1:24:44.680 understand ten years ago I would go into a conference, uh, 1:24:44.840 --> 1:24:49.880 it's it's called the North American Duck Symposium called Ducks nads. Yeah, 1:24:49.880 --> 1:24:53.960 I didn't want to Yeah, it really is. 1:24:55.160 --> 1:24:57.799 It's called Ducks now, okay, Ducks nine? 1:24:58.120 --> 1:25:02.000 Is it North American Duck Society your cops? 1:25:02.080 --> 1:25:05.120 Yeah, I'm aware, I'm aware. 1:25:05.240 --> 1:25:07.640 And is that like? Are they they they recognize that 1:25:07.640 --> 1:25:08.320 that's funny or. 1:25:08.280 --> 1:25:10.200 No, it's no longer funny. 1:25:10.439 --> 1:25:13.400 They made it unfunny. Well, yeah, the joke war. 1:25:13.360 --> 1:25:18.200 Off, the joke war off eight eight eight conferences in 1:25:19.040 --> 1:25:21.480 a Yeah, so it's gonna be in Portland in February. 1:25:21.520 --> 1:25:24.479 Should come anyways. Uh yeah. 1:25:24.520 --> 1:25:28.040 So you know some of the first ones that I 1:25:28.040 --> 1:25:31.240 would go to ID be like, oh, there's that geneticis 1:25:31.320 --> 1:25:34.960 that weird geneticist dude? Because they just didn't see the 1:25:35.200 --> 1:25:40.320 like what it couldn't do? What what that data can provide? 1:25:40.360 --> 1:25:42.320 You know, there's so many studies out there, right, So 1:25:42.320 --> 1:25:45.040 you're handling all these mallards and you're putting bands on them, 1:25:45.080 --> 1:25:48.760 you're putting telemetry units, and a bird that stays in 1:25:48.800 --> 1:25:52.519 an urban setting versus a bird that does migration, You'll 1:25:52.560 --> 1:25:55.040 be like, oh, maybe that's just part of their population 1:25:55.240 --> 1:25:59.200 and their history. And genetics allows you to go in 1:25:59.240 --> 1:26:01.920 and be like, oh, that one's a faral mallard and 1:26:02.000 --> 1:26:04.720 that one was a wild mallard. You're starting to have 1:26:04.760 --> 1:26:08.439 a better and a true foundation to what you're actually asking, 1:26:08.520 --> 1:26:12.400 so your your future questions will be less biased. 1:26:12.720 --> 1:26:16.080 You know, before we get into the mallard thing, do 1:26:16.080 --> 1:26:18.599 you remember, Brady Matt, Do you guys remember when there 1:26:18.680 --> 1:26:21.200 used to be on twenty seven kinds of Canada geese 1:26:22.200 --> 1:26:23.800 and then all of a sudden one day they're like, nope, 1:26:23.800 --> 1:26:28.200 there's three. Like what is the popular number now? Seven? 1:26:28.240 --> 1:26:31.599 Eleven to eleven? So there used to be ridiculous numbers there. 1:26:31.680 --> 1:26:34.599 Think eleven's pretty pretty commonly agreed on, right. 1:26:34.479 --> 1:26:37.559 Okay, that came from you folks. That came from me, folks, 1:26:37.720 --> 1:26:40.000 That came from your No, that's not true. You had 1:26:40.000 --> 1:26:44.479 this discussion with Cornell, I believe. So we folks provide 1:26:44.600 --> 1:26:48.400 data and we're like, look at how different these things are. 1:26:48.920 --> 1:26:52.360 And then there's the American Ornithological Union. Here, there's the 1:26:52.360 --> 1:26:56.680 British Ornithological Union. Every country has their own unions, and 1:26:56.720 --> 1:26:58.960 then they use that data to say should. 1:26:58.720 --> 1:26:59.560 They be species? 1:26:59.680 --> 1:27:02.839 So they're the taxonomists that make the decisions. 1:27:02.960 --> 1:27:05.040 So they're looking at what you're looking for them. 1:27:05.080 --> 1:27:08.360 So the Mexican duck when this was a good example. 1:27:08.400 --> 1:27:11.720 Mexican duck was full species when it was first identified 1:27:11.760 --> 1:27:15.720 in like eighteen ninety something. Then everybody's like, oh no, 1:27:15.760 --> 1:27:20.080 there's lots of hybridization in the sixties, so they bumped 1:27:20.080 --> 1:27:23.240 it down to a subspecies of the mallard hybridsation with 1:27:23.280 --> 1:27:27.720 mallards was the problem. And then years later I came 1:27:27.760 --> 1:27:30.679 along and I started to use some of this latest 1:27:30.720 --> 1:27:35.160 and greatest genetic genomic techniques and actually found out that oh, 1:27:35.320 --> 1:27:37.720 all of these things that you thought were hybrids are 1:27:37.760 --> 1:27:43.759 actually juvenile or first year males, and they naturally express 1:27:43.880 --> 1:27:47.800 Mallard traits because it's still in their genetics, but they're 1:27:47.800 --> 1:27:51.080 not hybrids. And there's lots and then we found lots 1:27:51.120 --> 1:27:54.720 of unique genetic signatures that are tied with the desert lifestyle. 1:27:55.320 --> 1:28:00.080 And so AOU American Ornithological Union used that information and 1:28:00.120 --> 1:28:04.400 then re elevate them in twenty twenty twenty back to 1:28:04.439 --> 1:28:05.080 full species. 1:28:05.160 --> 1:28:06.320 Only recently so they. 1:28:06.240 --> 1:28:07.599 Got bumped back to be in their own. 1:28:07.840 --> 1:28:08.960 Their own full species. 1:28:08.960 --> 1:28:11.600 So if you've got you know, the slam going, you 1:28:11.680 --> 1:28:13.320 gotta gotta come back when you one. 1:28:14.280 --> 1:28:15.080 Is that what it is now? 1:28:15.120 --> 1:28:18.639 For forty one Mexican ducks. 1:28:18.520 --> 1:28:18.960 Is the newest? 1:28:19.160 --> 1:28:20.280 Yeah, so is it forty two? 1:28:20.800 --> 1:28:23.120 I think it's forty two. I'm gonna say it's fully 1:28:23.160 --> 1:28:24.160 How close to you guys? 1:28:24.880 --> 1:28:27.000 I mean I was like eight off here for a while. 1:28:27.920 --> 1:28:28.639 You're eight off. 1:28:28.760 --> 1:28:28.960 Yeah. 1:28:29.880 --> 1:28:32.720 Have you told you've got so You've gotten all I need? 1:28:32.760 --> 1:28:35.280 Like my model ducks and tree ducks and that that 1:28:35.439 --> 1:28:37.719 weird stuff in the South. You know he's talking. 1:28:37.520 --> 1:28:41.160 About, huh, did you get them all stuffed? 1:28:41.200 --> 1:28:43.040 But like, no, I don't have them all stuff I 1:28:43.320 --> 1:28:44.920 wish I did. I wish I would have done it, 1:28:45.000 --> 1:28:47.280 kind of like our our friend down the road, Mark Pierce. 1:28:47.320 --> 1:28:48.960 You know, he's got them all like flying in the 1:28:49.000 --> 1:28:51.920 same direction. It's like one big flaw. I would have 1:28:51.960 --> 1:28:52.920 loved to have started that. 1:28:52.960 --> 1:28:54.639 Yeah, because I always think, like I've gotten a lot 1:28:54.680 --> 1:28:56.479 of stuff over the years, is whatever and not going 1:28:56.520 --> 1:28:57.439 there like no, I haven't. 1:28:57.439 --> 1:29:02.320 No, Well, just tough. I mean, you know, back when 1:29:02.320 --> 1:29:04.519 we were really shooting him. You know, even when I 1:29:04.560 --> 1:29:07.280 went to Alaska, I was there on a on a 1:29:07.280 --> 1:29:09.960 photo shoot and I got to hunt a king Eider 1:29:09.960 --> 1:29:11.880 and I shot the you know, the male and the 1:29:11.920 --> 1:29:15.680 female and shot some scooters and stuff like that. But shit, man, 1:29:15.720 --> 1:29:19.519 I couldn't afford to stuff everything like you can't. You know, 1:29:19.560 --> 1:29:21.559 it's expensive to do it, you know, four or five 1:29:21.600 --> 1:29:23.479 hundred bucks apiece to do it right, and it's. 1:29:23.360 --> 1:29:27.360 More than you got paid for the photo shoot. Yeah, no, kid, deficits. 1:29:28.600 --> 1:29:36.360 So years ago, we were out in uh the east Shore, 1:29:37.200 --> 1:29:39.880 Chesapeake Bay, and we're driving down the road and we're 1:29:39.880 --> 1:29:42.960 going over a bridge, okay, and I look and it's 1:29:42.960 --> 1:29:46.400 just like I even comment on to my friend because 1:29:46.439 --> 1:29:48.960 it's duck season. I knew it was duck season. And 1:29:49.000 --> 1:29:51.240 we go over bridge and there's Maillard sitting. That just 1:29:51.240 --> 1:29:55.240 didn't seem right. And I even said to him, like 1:29:55.320 --> 1:29:59.080 I cannot believe that, you know, just like how they 1:29:59.120 --> 1:30:04.200 were sort of achi buying this slew and it's proximity. 1:30:04.360 --> 1:30:06.799 I even comment like that just seems weird those mallards 1:30:06.800 --> 1:30:08.280 be doing that right in the middle of the duck season. 1:30:08.960 --> 1:30:12.920 It was yeah, and he goes, well, how much time 1:30:12.960 --> 1:30:15.240 you got, you know, and it was and I had 1:30:15.320 --> 1:30:16.800 I didn't know that this was I didn't know that 1:30:16.840 --> 1:30:19.080 it went on that like the same way you do 1:30:19.120 --> 1:30:21.240 pheasants where you just like let pheasants out. I had 1:30:21.280 --> 1:30:29.000 no idea, yeah, that there is a thing of releasing 1:30:29.120 --> 1:30:34.280 pen raised mallards. And the reason I thought, like, the 1:30:34.280 --> 1:30:37.240 reason I thought was because pheasants, you know, peasants are 1:30:37.280 --> 1:30:40.479 non native, and I thought it was that one of 1:30:40.520 --> 1:30:43.559 the reasons they're so widely released like that is because 1:30:43.600 --> 1:30:47.240 it's a non native. Anyways, you're not upsetting any kind 1:30:47.240 --> 1:30:51.200 of wild bird population. 1:30:51.240 --> 1:30:52.559 At least as far as we think. 1:30:52.960 --> 1:30:55.320 Okay, okay, at least as far as I thought. Maybe 1:30:55.320 --> 1:30:57.280 you're can tell me otherwise. And so it just winds 1:30:57.360 --> 1:31:00.679 up being like, here's a species that is out there. 1:31:01.040 --> 1:31:03.320 They require a lot of human assistance. If you want 1:31:03.360 --> 1:31:06.439 to supplement with pen raised birds. Knock yourself out, like 1:31:06.760 --> 1:31:09.720 you're not interfering with anything. But the fact that you 1:31:09.720 --> 1:31:12.200 could let mallards go is really surprised me. But then 1:31:12.240 --> 1:31:15.639 I've learned since then it is somewhat a widespread practice. Yeah, 1:31:15.960 --> 1:31:19.960 And they appoint and he said, when like this used 1:31:20.000 --> 1:31:24.120 to be, Chesapeake Bay was sort of, you know, in 1:31:24.160 --> 1:31:26.639 some ways kind of like like the birthplace of American 1:31:26.760 --> 1:31:34.240 duck hunting, and as bird numbers declined, it just became 1:31:34.360 --> 1:31:39.720 a they artificially inflated numbers to maintain that. And what 1:31:39.720 --> 1:31:41.639 you're driving by is these hunt clubs and they have 1:31:41.880 --> 1:31:44.360 mallards that are just hanging around in a way that 1:31:44.439 --> 1:31:46.640 just seems makes them seem like they don't quite know 1:31:46.680 --> 1:31:51.040 what's going on, you know, And you've spent some time on. 1:31:51.000 --> 1:31:53.320 This, now, sure did? Is that the segue? 1:31:53.479 --> 1:31:56.840 That's a segue, that's a good setd Yeah. 1:31:56.920 --> 1:32:00.880 So yes, so in a nutshell, that's that's more or 1:32:00.960 --> 1:32:04.080 less what happened. But we've I've sort of reconstructed exactly 1:32:04.520 --> 1:32:08.240 what what potentially happened. So if nobody here knows this, 1:32:09.000 --> 1:32:14.040 the mallard is the wolf of all domestic ducks, right, 1:32:14.120 --> 1:32:15.559 So like the wolf is of the. 1:32:15.560 --> 1:32:18.479 Dog, the mallard is that. 1:32:18.640 --> 1:32:22.479 To all domestic ducks. He lost all right, so peaking duck? 1:32:22.680 --> 1:32:28.040 Oh yeah yeah really Yeah. 1:32:28.120 --> 1:32:29.760 They pulled all the domestics off of. 1:32:29.760 --> 1:32:32.600 Mallards, just like you could get a chihuahua off of 1:32:32.640 --> 1:32:33.120 a wolf. 1:32:34.040 --> 1:32:37.560 Okay, this is interesting because I was you know, uh, 1:32:37.880 --> 1:32:39.640 what we pulled cattle from. 1:32:40.880 --> 1:32:43.160 Yeah, they're trying to bring it is gone. 1:32:43.360 --> 1:32:45.920 What we pulled the pig from is still around, Yeah, 1:32:46.080 --> 1:32:49.560 sus scraff what we pulled sheep from I believe is 1:32:49.560 --> 1:32:50.000 still around. 1:32:50.040 --> 1:32:54.519 I think so that was out of what uh, Saudi Arabia, Arabia, 1:32:54.800 --> 1:32:57.360 Northern Africa. That would have been red cheap I think. 1:32:57.439 --> 1:33:00.960 Is the ancestral one on what we pulled the horse 1:33:01.040 --> 1:33:02.280 from is I think gone. 1:33:03.000 --> 1:33:07.839 So they so revive and restore recently cloned the second 1:33:08.360 --> 1:33:10.559 I'm gonna say this wrong, Piswick. 1:33:10.880 --> 1:33:13.840 Yeah, that's like the foundation species. Yeah yeah, yeah, so 1:33:14.040 --> 1:33:15.360 I had no idea the mallard. 1:33:15.840 --> 1:33:16.800 The mallard is. 1:33:16.720 --> 1:33:19.759 The duck that created that. They pulled all the domestics. 1:33:20.000 --> 1:33:23.240 Yeah, so they were one of the last successful domestication 1:33:23.320 --> 1:33:27.719 events about five thousand years ago. So there's only two, 1:33:28.080 --> 1:33:30.760 well three the goose sort of, but the only other 1:33:30.960 --> 1:33:34.360 good domestication was in South America with the Muscovis. They 1:33:34.439 --> 1:33:37.880 kind of just looked like that's how you say, that's 1:33:37.920 --> 1:33:43.000 all Yeah, either way either acceptable. 1:33:42.640 --> 1:33:45.120 In my book. Yeah. 1:33:45.160 --> 1:33:48.559 So so the mallard, you know, there's good writings about 1:33:48.600 --> 1:33:50.760 the Ming dynasty was one of the first ones to 1:33:50.800 --> 1:33:57.000 start domestication, domesticating the process of domestication of of of mallards, 1:33:57.400 --> 1:33:59.960 and that was for food, right, make them fatter, fat 1:34:02.000 --> 1:34:04.519 making more eggs these types of things now five thousand 1:34:04.560 --> 1:34:09.599 years ago about yeah, and now again. Domestication is a process, 1:34:09.640 --> 1:34:13.160 so it ebbs and flows, happens all over the once 1:34:13.640 --> 1:34:16.800 it started, then those things get transitioned, just kind of 1:34:16.840 --> 1:34:23.160 like labs made themselves. You know, there's English labs, American labs. 1:34:23.200 --> 1:34:28.559 There's all sorts of stuff anyway. So sixteen thirty one 1:34:28.800 --> 1:34:32.599 is the first writing from King Charles, the second asking 1:34:32.720 --> 1:34:35.759 his squires to go, Now, I just add the squire's 1:34:35.800 --> 1:34:39.720 part to add, but to go get mallard eggs for 1:34:39.800 --> 1:34:43.600 the purpose of raising and releasing for hunting purposes. 1:34:43.760 --> 1:34:45.879 So he was a sixteen thirty one. 1:34:45.680 --> 1:34:46.599 Sixteen thirty one. 1:34:47.200 --> 1:34:50.800 The name game farm Mallard was first, as far as 1:34:50.840 --> 1:34:56.200 I know, recorded in eighteen nineties in England by people 1:34:56.280 --> 1:34:59.120 ringing them and calling them game farm Mallard. I'm going 1:34:59.200 --> 1:35:01.840 to refer to this thing called a game farm Mallard. 1:35:01.880 --> 1:35:04.240 But all it really is is a domestic variant, right. 1:35:04.280 --> 1:35:07.599 It's a name, just like a lab or chihuahua or whatever. 1:35:07.720 --> 1:35:12.479 Beagle is a name, pekin, duck rowan duck, runners call ducks. 1:35:12.520 --> 1:35:16.040 All these things have names, right, So this thing is 1:35:16.080 --> 1:35:19.920 called a game farm mallard because it was farmed for 1:35:19.920 --> 1:35:23.240 for gaminess. So what they were, what they were interested 1:35:23.280 --> 1:35:26.519 where people were interested in Europe primarily at the time, 1:35:27.080 --> 1:35:31.719 was to make something you know, flightier, something that flies faster, 1:35:32.640 --> 1:35:35.599 is you know, sportier and that. 1:35:35.960 --> 1:35:36.840 Then I don't know. 1:35:37.160 --> 1:35:40.400 Then whatever was around just just like a pheasant shoot, 1:35:40.400 --> 1:35:44.200 but with with ducks, right, they're flying more erratic, more 1:35:44.280 --> 1:35:45.760 like a make a a. 1:35:47.439 --> 1:35:49.320 Mallard fly like a wigeon. 1:35:49.720 --> 1:35:53.720 Oh okay, the objective the same way a pigeon fancier. Yeah, 1:35:53.760 --> 1:35:55.960 wants to make pigeons that have all these crazy colors. 1:35:56.320 --> 1:35:59.599 They were like, breed me outright, we want to make 1:35:59.600 --> 1:36:01.840 this hard. We're crazy flying. 1:36:02.120 --> 1:36:04.759 Yeah, all right, So now let's move forward to America. 1:36:06.520 --> 1:36:11.200 You know one second, Yeah, did they do what did 1:36:11.200 --> 1:36:13.120 they in Europe? Did they do the tower? Is that 1:36:13.120 --> 1:36:14.280 what they're doing? Tower shoots? 1:36:14.280 --> 1:36:19.120 They do both they do so currently how bad I 1:36:19.120 --> 1:36:23.280 guess bad is relative? I think is bad. So they 1:36:23.280 --> 1:36:27.320 do tower shoots, but they also released right before the season, 1:36:28.200 --> 1:36:30.640 France releases three million of these things to have a 1:36:30.680 --> 1:36:34.400 fall flight. Now, wow, no, that was last year's numbers. 1:36:34.400 --> 1:36:35.639 I think that's a staggering number. 1:36:36.120 --> 1:36:39.080 France cuts loose three million mallards. 1:36:38.640 --> 1:36:41.640 Something like that, like game farm mallady, game farm mallards. 1:36:41.800 --> 1:36:44.719 Things that you breed and you release right before the season, 1:36:44.840 --> 1:36:50.280 just like you would release pheasants, you know, before Thanksgiving, youth, Christmas. 1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:53.799 Maybe. Yeah, well it was another important distinction between pheasants 1:36:53.800 --> 1:36:56.840 those like the gall of forms. You like that word? 1:36:56.920 --> 1:36:59.280 Yeah, I like it. 1:36:58.920 --> 1:37:00.960 That was that was a you a question, that meaning 1:37:01.000 --> 1:37:03.000 your trivia that I got right not too long ago. 1:37:03.720 --> 1:37:06.240 One of the deaf defining features of the Galli forms 1:37:06.200 --> 1:37:08.439 is they don't really go anywhere. Correct, that's a small 1:37:08.520 --> 1:37:10.360 home range. When you caught a mallet, Loo says, some 1:37:10.439 --> 1:37:11.200 bitch takes off. 1:37:12.000 --> 1:37:16.880 Yeah, so so dogmatically, wait, can we go to America? 1:37:17.000 --> 1:37:17.160 Now? 1:37:17.240 --> 1:37:21.320 Oh right, okay, all right, so so you're right. So 1:37:21.439 --> 1:37:24.960 the gunning years of the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, 1:37:25.400 --> 1:37:30.960 you know, market hunting was spelled demise for all our 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:35.280 bird populations, including passenger pigeon eventually going extinct, heath hen 1:37:35.400 --> 1:37:37.000 going extinct for now. 1:37:37.000 --> 1:37:40.320 Oh we held one of those. Ah yeah, Krin they 1:37:40.400 --> 1:37:43.719 head in that drawer. I'm talking about the extinct drawer. 1:37:44.160 --> 1:37:45.680 I don't think they had the dog. I think they 1:37:45.680 --> 1:37:48.919 had the it was ivory bills, passengers and heath. 1:37:48.680 --> 1:37:51.440 Hen Okay, in the special, I don't totally. 1:37:51.160 --> 1:37:51.760 Right by the door. 1:37:52.560 --> 1:37:56.320 I will note that my contribution so far is to 1:37:56.439 --> 1:37:59.720 reviving her stories so far, just suggesting we should bring 1:37:59.760 --> 1:38:03.160 back labrador duck. Yeah, but I said I would get 1:38:03.160 --> 1:38:03.800 the first tag. 1:38:06.120 --> 1:38:07.320 Anyways. 1:38:07.880 --> 1:38:13.479 Okay, so we are we are gunning year's population crashes, 1:38:13.760 --> 1:38:18.280 and so what did folks do? There's two things that 1:38:18.320 --> 1:38:21.599 are occurring. So if you don't know this, east of 1:38:21.800 --> 1:38:26.639 the Mississippi River was boreal forest, right and the duck 1:38:27.640 --> 1:38:31.960 mallards were were vagrants, which means we're going. 1:38:31.840 --> 1:38:35.040 Back to the Mississippi. Wasn't boreal forest during the place 1:38:35.080 --> 1:38:35.519 to scene? 1:38:35.600 --> 1:38:39.800 Yeah, we're going there because we have we have a 1:38:39.880 --> 1:38:43.960 very good distinction here. The east of the Mississippi before 1:38:44.600 --> 1:38:48.920 humans started cutting things down was mostly boreal forests and 1:38:48.960 --> 1:38:51.920 the ecological replacement, which means the thing that is better 1:38:52.000 --> 1:38:54.800 than the other thing to the mallard in that area 1:38:54.880 --> 1:38:56.960 was the American black duck. That is the reason it 1:38:57.040 --> 1:38:59.720 is completely dark, both males and females, because you could 1:38:59.720 --> 1:39:02.920 think of boreal forest an aerial predator going overhead. The 1:39:03.000 --> 1:39:06.240 selection pressure isn't to look fancy to the female because 1:39:06.240 --> 1:39:08.960 you're getting picked off. So now males and females have 1:39:09.000 --> 1:39:11.360 to look the same, all right, So it's about your 1:39:11.360 --> 1:39:15.720 black ducks. Very few mallards. So mallards tended to go 1:39:15.920 --> 1:39:19.720 still go into the southeast Atlantic flyways to the eastern seaboard. 1:39:19.880 --> 1:39:23.720 But the northeast it was vagrant like a cinnamon teal right, 1:39:23.800 --> 1:39:26.799 So you didn't you didn't shoot mallards there. But of course, 1:39:27.040 --> 1:39:30.120 so now let's fast forward to nineteen twenty. Ish duck 1:39:30.200 --> 1:39:33.000 numbers are down. People are like, all right, what do 1:39:33.040 --> 1:39:35.880 we do about these numbers? But also that area was like, 1:39:35.960 --> 1:39:37.600 we want to shoot mallards. 1:39:37.120 --> 1:39:41.320 Too, all right, So cause mallard is king there. 1:39:41.320 --> 1:39:43.160 It is, big greenhead, big greenhead. 1:39:43.640 --> 1:39:44.400 Same thing. 1:39:44.479 --> 1:39:47.920 Did you know, do everybody see the story of the Hunter? 1:39:48.560 --> 1:39:52.080 I think she was a thousand years old in Nova Scotia. 1:39:52.280 --> 1:39:56.440 Last last meal mallard. 1:39:56.160 --> 1:39:59.960 Yep, yeah, chestnuts, chestnuts and mallard yea chestnut. 1:40:00.080 --> 1:40:02.080 The mad So we've been doing this for a while. 1:40:02.160 --> 1:40:03.280 Everybody loves mallards. 1:40:04.000 --> 1:40:06.080 She was what else had she had she been eating? 1:40:06.600 --> 1:40:08.880 Well, she also had a lot of diseases. I remember 1:40:08.960 --> 1:40:09.960 seeing all Yeah. 1:40:09.840 --> 1:40:12.839 Yeah, I think her last they were saying her diet 1:40:12.960 --> 1:40:16.479 was I don't remember. I remember the chestnuts and Mallardy 1:40:16.960 --> 1:40:18.040 went out on a high. 1:40:18.200 --> 1:40:21.040 Yeah, pretty much anyway. 1:40:21.120 --> 1:40:26.920 So so, uh so, folks first tried to start breeding 1:40:26.960 --> 1:40:30.000 programs with our wild birds mallards and black ducks. They 1:40:30.000 --> 1:40:32.600 didn't take because it's their wild It takes time for 1:40:32.680 --> 1:40:35.160 them to be like, Okay, I'm going to not stress out, 1:40:35.200 --> 1:40:37.240 I'm going to make eggs, all these types of things. 1:40:38.160 --> 1:40:41.519 So that failed. But somebody must have known that the 1:40:41.560 --> 1:40:43.760 Europeans already got this right, you know. 1:40:43.800 --> 1:40:46.479 Can I let me ask you extra detail about this 1:40:46.600 --> 1:40:49.640 because you just said something that's interesting. They found the 1:40:49.640 --> 1:40:57.400 opposite with turkeys that which which one Well, when they 1:40:57.400 --> 1:41:00.280 started trying to repopulate turkeys. 1:41:00.280 --> 1:41:02.800 The out of Pa, those last turkeys. 1:41:02.479 --> 1:41:04.439 Well everywhere they I mean they recover turkey's are old 1:41:04.520 --> 1:41:06.679 damn place. But what they found initially they were trying 1:41:06.720 --> 1:41:10.759 to use captive bread yeah birds. 1:41:10.880 --> 1:41:11.200 Yeah. 1:41:11.520 --> 1:41:14.639 The captive bread birds wouldn't take. Yeah, And then they 1:41:14.920 --> 1:41:17.280 eventually came to the conclusion they had to use wild 1:41:17.360 --> 1:41:20.960 bread birds correct to distribute them around. So you saying 1:41:21.000 --> 1:41:26.920 that that they had an opposite experience with ducks. 1:41:27.479 --> 1:41:30.640 It's the no, because that the point of that was 1:41:30.720 --> 1:41:34.960 actually establishing populations. Currently they just want to make ducks, right, 1:41:35.040 --> 1:41:38.280 So those are two different h wants. 1:41:38.680 --> 1:41:42.200 Right, So, oh, they're recovering something, they're trying to get 1:41:42.200 --> 1:41:43.800 something going exactly, I got it. 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:46.920 Yeah, all right, so they went So someone must have 1:41:47.040 --> 1:41:49.439 known that the Europeans like figured this out and brought 1:41:49.520 --> 1:41:52.559 game farm mallards here and I'll explain how I figure 1:41:52.600 --> 1:41:55.599 that out. But so they started propagating them, and from 1:41:55.600 --> 1:41:58.559 about nineteen twenty nineteen sixty they released about half a 1:41:58.600 --> 1:42:02.280 million of these things just on the Eastern seaboard every year, 1:42:03.000 --> 1:42:06.000 and then nineteen sixty to today is about two hundred 1:42:06.000 --> 1:42:08.559 and fifty thousand to our best estimates, but my guess 1:42:08.680 --> 1:42:09.880 is way more than that. 1:42:10.520 --> 1:42:13.679 So these games getting released, still getting released, and still 1:42:13.880 --> 1:42:17.480 of the progeny of these European birds. Yep. 1:42:17.920 --> 1:42:18.200 Yeah. 1:42:18.280 --> 1:42:21.840 So so is this the state doing this or is 1:42:21.880 --> 1:42:23.759 this just like private currently? 1:42:23.800 --> 1:42:27.160 It's private. When it first started, it was state fed private. 1:42:27.160 --> 1:42:29.880 Everybody was trying to raise them. In fact, more game 1:42:29.920 --> 1:42:30.839 birds for America. 1:42:30.880 --> 1:42:31.920 Do you know who they became? 1:42:33.120 --> 1:42:37.799 Anybody du had no idea the trivia? 1:42:38.120 --> 1:42:43.040 Yeah, do you know who James Ford Bell started which 1:42:43.080 --> 1:42:46.880 other one Delta Waterfall. Yeah, so they both initially wanted 1:42:46.880 --> 1:42:51.479 to do game farm mallards too and hot Yeah, Delta 1:42:51.520 --> 1:42:55.520 Waterfowl had a hole their first thing in the Delta marshes. 1:42:55.600 --> 1:42:59.160 What year, what was nineteen thirty? They were still trying 1:42:59.200 --> 1:43:05.439 this nineteen anyway, So they but they showed that the 1:43:05.800 --> 1:43:09.280 that they but their premise was make ducks that actually 1:43:09.320 --> 1:43:13.080 make more ducks in the wild, and Delta saw that 1:43:13.080 --> 1:43:16.880 that was a failing venture because they didn't survive long enough, 1:43:16.920 --> 1:43:18.200 didn't make the same because they. 1:43:18.400 --> 1:43:22.439 Take these European ducks, these European mallards, cut them loose, 1:43:23.200 --> 1:43:26.120 and then the next year just no successful reproduction. Yeah 1:43:26.120 --> 1:43:30.080 you're going over again, correct. Yeah, they never took off. 1:43:30.160 --> 1:43:32.920 So the dogma since then of why we continue to 1:43:32.960 --> 1:43:36.559 release them is that they are some Oh the other 1:43:36.600 --> 1:43:39.360 fun fact is everybody tells me that, oh, well, they're 1:43:39.400 --> 1:43:43.120 born here, they can like smell their way here, and 1:43:43.160 --> 1:43:45.120 so they don't leave here. It's like their house no 1:43:45.160 --> 1:43:48.080 matter what. And if they do leave, they die, and 1:43:48.120 --> 1:43:50.360 if they don't die, they definitely don't breathe. That's the 1:43:50.479 --> 1:43:53.680 dogma that I was under, including when I was in 1:43:53.720 --> 1:43:56.639 school in uh UC Davis. I was I was learning 1:43:56.680 --> 1:43:57.040 about this. 1:43:57.479 --> 1:43:58.880 Can you tell me? Can you tell me that again? 1:43:59.160 --> 1:43:59.719 The dogma. 1:44:00.080 --> 1:44:02.599 The dogma was that it's okay to release these things 1:44:02.880 --> 1:44:07.000 sort of like pheasants, like look, winter's gonna come, the 1:44:07.360 --> 1:44:08.559 coyotes are going to get. 1:44:08.360 --> 1:44:09.880 Them, like nobody's gonna survive. 1:44:10.320 --> 1:44:13.439 Right, So the dogma was these things are trained quote 1:44:13.520 --> 1:44:17.280 unquote if you can't see them, uh, to to stay 1:44:17.360 --> 1:44:20.200 on the wetland that they're you know, made, and. 1:44:20.439 --> 1:44:24.600 That would so that would help, and that that posturing 1:44:24.720 --> 1:44:28.800 or that belief alleviated concerns that you're gonna let this 1:44:28.880 --> 1:44:32.640 sort of like global Pandora's box out by taking this 1:44:32.760 --> 1:44:35.280 animal and it flies and all around the world and 1:44:35.400 --> 1:44:37.360 spreads itself every correct. Yeah. 1:44:37.680 --> 1:44:42.280 So so that happened for one hundred years, and I 1:44:42.439 --> 1:44:45.720 was studying American black ducks and mallard So if you 1:44:45.720 --> 1:44:49.120 don't know this American black duck again very close relative 1:44:49.200 --> 1:44:53.200 sister species or relative to the to the mallard in 1:44:53.240 --> 1:44:56.160 fact off the Mallard tree. It was a mallard in 1:44:56.240 --> 1:45:00.839 North America and then evolved adapted to boreal forests and 1:45:01.479 --> 1:45:03.880 over the last half million years turned into what we 1:45:04.000 --> 1:45:05.400 now considered the American black. 1:45:07.000 --> 1:45:09.479 Can you tell uh us have such little experience of 1:45:09.520 --> 1:45:11.840 black dogs? Can can you tell the hens from the 1:45:11.880 --> 1:45:12.880 drakes by looking at them? 1:45:12.960 --> 1:45:14.120 Yeah? 1:45:14.240 --> 1:45:19.519 It's tough fight. It's hard. No, greenhead obviously, No, it's 1:45:20.080 --> 1:45:23.439 you have to what is this? What are you looking at? Bill? Bill? Yeah? 1:45:23.560 --> 1:45:25.599 And only thing. That's the only thing. 1:45:25.760 --> 1:45:27.599 And can't you look at the speculum too? 1:45:30.520 --> 1:45:33.599 You can, But they're not supposed to have a white 1:45:33.640 --> 1:45:39.320 wing bar, so the white hybrid in between. Okay, that's 1:45:39.400 --> 1:45:39.960 that's what I know. 1:45:40.200 --> 1:45:40.400 Yeah. 1:45:40.479 --> 1:45:43.080 No, and and your and your thought process was correct 1:45:43.160 --> 1:45:45.719 us fish and wildlife. So this is part of this study. 1:45:45.760 --> 1:45:48.240 We were saying, like, okay, so we're at this wing 1:45:48.320 --> 1:45:51.120 b where all these things, and you know, professionals are 1:45:51.120 --> 1:45:54.760 calling Mallard black duck hybrid. You know, based on those 1:45:54.840 --> 1:45:57.000 characteristics you have the amount of white on them and 1:45:57.040 --> 1:45:59.360 all this other stuff. So we did the genetics on them, 1:45:59.479 --> 1:46:02.640 and one of the things management and implication. They are 1:46:02.680 --> 1:46:07.320 only sixty percent accurate at calling hybrids from either parental 1:46:07.600 --> 1:46:09.639 the other percents where there should have been black ducks 1:46:09.720 --> 1:46:11.880 or mallards, and on the Mallard and black ducks side, 1:46:11.920 --> 1:46:14.839 twenty percent of those should have been on the hybrid. 1:46:14.880 --> 1:46:17.800 So those numbers are going into our models right, potentially 1:46:17.880 --> 1:46:21.120 causing issues and survival estimates for coundity estimates and so forth. 1:46:21.320 --> 1:46:23.040 You know, this is starting to sound like is when 1:46:23.080 --> 1:46:25.120 you show people the deer's teeth and they tell you 1:46:25.120 --> 1:46:29.000 how old it is. Yeah, work without cutting into it. 1:46:29.080 --> 1:46:30.679 Yeah yeah, it being. 1:46:30.520 --> 1:46:34.520 Like that's a maybe that's year old buff Yeah exactly. 1:46:35.600 --> 1:46:38.360 Anyway, So but within that study, I started picking up 1:46:38.400 --> 1:46:43.920 this genetic signature that didn't that wasn't black duck, and 1:46:43.960 --> 1:46:47.920 it wasn't Western Mallard. So west by Western Mallard, I 1:46:48.000 --> 1:46:52.120 mean west of the Mississippi River, west of the Mississippi River, 1:46:52.160 --> 1:46:55.280 they're all this one genetic cluster. And then as you 1:46:55.320 --> 1:46:59.280 go east, this secondary genetic cluster that is mixed with 1:46:59.600 --> 1:47:03.720 the western Genei cluster started to come in. 1:47:04.080 --> 1:47:05.600 Higher and higher abundance. 1:47:06.080 --> 1:47:09.160 And when we looked at black duck hybrids, they tended 1:47:09.200 --> 1:47:12.840 to backcross with this other genetic signature. So that was 1:47:12.840 --> 1:47:16.519 twenty nineteen. I knew the story of this game farm releases, 1:47:16.560 --> 1:47:19.160 and of course dogmatically I was like I shouldn't look 1:47:19.160 --> 1:47:21.439 at that, like that's that's not a thing. 1:47:21.520 --> 1:47:23.200 They don't go anywhere that I don't go anywhere. 1:47:23.600 --> 1:47:26.280 And I saw that, I'm like, no way. So but 1:47:26.360 --> 1:47:30.479 to you know, prove to the scientific community, and I 1:47:30.520 --> 1:47:32.920 had to go and get known game farm mallards. So 1:47:33.320 --> 1:47:36.400 I actually sent my wife to New Jersey and a 1:47:36.400 --> 1:47:41.240 couple other places and we collected we collected known game 1:47:41.240 --> 1:47:42.080 far mallage. 1:47:41.800 --> 1:47:42.719 From some of these preserves. 1:47:42.720 --> 1:47:43.639 How did she get them? 1:47:43.880 --> 1:47:44.479 She shot him. 1:47:45.360 --> 1:47:46.840 You sent her out as a client. 1:47:48.000 --> 1:47:51.920 Unreally undercover undercover client heard. 1:47:51.760 --> 1:47:55.120 These stories before I knew where this story was about 1:47:55.160 --> 1:47:55.400 to go. 1:47:55.520 --> 1:47:57.920 So you sent your wife to masquerade as a client 1:47:57.960 --> 1:47:58.960 to bring you the ducks. 1:47:59.080 --> 1:48:01.120 Well, on top of it, though, she was also giving 1:48:01.160 --> 1:48:04.000 me information of where these birds that she didn't didn't 1:48:04.080 --> 1:48:07.160 just come to the pond go And they all they 1:48:07.200 --> 1:48:09.720 all went to this location. And when I immediately in real 1:48:09.760 --> 1:48:12.200 time Google mapped where they were going, they're all going 1:48:12.240 --> 1:48:14.280 to a wildlife refuge. 1:48:14.439 --> 1:48:15.160 You're kidding me? 1:48:16.280 --> 1:48:17.840 So they know where they're going, gods. 1:48:17.560 --> 1:48:21.040 Like an undercover component. Yeah, yeah, this is dark. I 1:48:21.160 --> 1:48:22.040 like a jehan. 1:48:21.960 --> 1:48:27.360 Lecar So now those ys, So now we're back to Jersey, 1:48:28.040 --> 1:48:29.080 they're probably about. 1:48:28.880 --> 1:48:29.439 To go kill me. 1:48:30.600 --> 1:48:33.439 So so all right, So we had that, we had 1:48:33.520 --> 1:48:36.600 known game farm, right, and then on top of it, 1:48:36.640 --> 1:48:39.400 I'm like, well, there's park ducks everywhere. And the nice 1:48:39.439 --> 1:48:42.960 thing is we were banding Mexican ducks and alongside them 1:48:42.960 --> 1:48:45.439 there were there were Khaki Campbell's, which is a different 1:48:45.600 --> 1:48:49.439 variant of mallard. So we had those, so they are 1:48:49.479 --> 1:48:53.160 were our proxy other park duck domestic thing, right, So 1:48:53.439 --> 1:48:56.880 if this genetic signature was park duck, we would be 1:48:56.880 --> 1:48:58.960 able to tell that, or if it was game farm, 1:48:58.960 --> 1:49:00.559 we would be able to tell that. As we had that, 1:49:01.200 --> 1:49:03.960 But I also knew that people were gonna be like, well, 1:49:04.000 --> 1:49:07.519 maybe Eastern mallards were always genetically different. So that's when 1:49:07.560 --> 1:49:10.880 I went to the Smithsonian and picked up bird mallards 1:49:11.040 --> 1:49:14.360 harvested from eighteen sixty to nineteen fifteen, so before all 1:49:14.400 --> 1:49:18.360 those releases. So I want to thank all hunters now, 1:49:18.600 --> 1:49:23.240 from before and today that were depositing birds into museum collections. 1:49:24.160 --> 1:49:31.800 Natural hunting is conservation, and so we got genetics off 1:49:31.840 --> 1:49:35.439 of those birds, and so we compare everybody. First thing 1:49:35.960 --> 1:49:39.400 that other genetic signature game far mallard. I was like, 1:49:39.439 --> 1:49:42.080 all right, so we know that, but were they always 1:49:42.200 --> 1:49:42.439 like that? 1:49:42.760 --> 1:49:42.960 No? 1:49:43.520 --> 1:49:46.880 They were the genetic signature of a mallard one hundred 1:49:46.880 --> 1:49:49.360 and fifty year old mallard was that which you have 1:49:49.439 --> 1:49:54.479 here in Montana in the prairies, so for now, and 1:49:55.960 --> 1:49:59.960 this other genetic signature was causing that the eastern mala 1:50:00.280 --> 1:50:04.840 to be completely different than what is western mallard today 1:50:04.920 --> 1:50:09.839 and historically so are different. Well that's where we're gonna go. Okay, 1:50:10.200 --> 1:50:15.720 so our North American wild mallard has had that the 1:50:15.720 --> 1:50:19.839 premise of that twenty twenty paper was that the release 1:50:19.880 --> 1:50:26.639 of game farm mallards had foundationally transformed the genetic integrity over. 1:50:26.479 --> 1:50:27.320 A wild mallard. 1:50:27.720 --> 1:50:28.080 All right. 1:50:28.960 --> 1:50:31.800 So then I was like, all right, let's look at 1:50:31.840 --> 1:50:35.720 how this occurs across the world. And for that we 1:50:35.760 --> 1:50:37.840 had to go to Europe and on top of it 1:50:37.920 --> 1:50:40.919 be like, okay, are our game farm mallards from Europe? 1:50:40.960 --> 1:50:42.800 You know, had to prove that, So you had to 1:50:42.800 --> 1:50:43.599 send your wife there. 1:50:43.800 --> 1:50:46.160 So I just I would have gone. 1:50:46.240 --> 1:50:47.799 No, I had colleagues in Europe. 1:50:47.840 --> 1:50:50.599 They sent me a whole bunch of DNA and blood 1:50:50.640 --> 1:50:55.680 and all this other stuff from Sweden. Almost what did 1:50:55.680 --> 1:50:58.400 we do? Twelve countries? It's in that paper right there. 1:50:58.520 --> 1:51:01.160 We back over one second. Your is she a duck 1:51:01.240 --> 1:51:03.280 hunor she is? Okay? 1:51:03.479 --> 1:51:03.719 Yeah? 1:51:04.600 --> 1:51:05.559 Did she bring friends? 1:51:06.880 --> 1:51:07.040 Uh? 1:51:07.240 --> 1:51:09.400 No, she's just solo clients. 1:51:10.439 --> 1:51:14.040 Strange a single woman shows up to the hunting club 1:51:15.960 --> 1:51:18.479 with her fowling piece and just like, let's go. 1:51:19.200 --> 1:51:19.400 Well. 1:51:19.840 --> 1:51:23.160 We also requested that the dogs handle the birds, uh 1:51:23.640 --> 1:51:27.000 carefully because we were making a mount a mount. 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:29.240 Oh that's good. Wow. 1:51:30.200 --> 1:51:33.200 I have a quick question backing up real quick, Khaki Campbell. 1:51:33.600 --> 1:51:35.080 I've never heard of this before, is it? 1:51:35.520 --> 1:51:35.640 No? 1:51:35.720 --> 1:51:40.040 I see it. I'm curious if that is commonly known 1:51:40.080 --> 1:51:42.400 as a blonde mallard. 1:51:44.000 --> 1:51:46.439 Maybe, so we're going to get it. 1:51:46.479 --> 1:51:48.760 I'm not trying to like deviate however, like this is 1:51:50.680 --> 1:51:52.640 this is this is very interesting to me. 1:51:52.920 --> 1:51:56.160 Yeah, because like the blonde Mallard was always like genetics 1:51:56.160 --> 1:51:58.000 and like it was just losing its color. 1:51:58.080 --> 1:51:59.880 Yeah, we've always thought it was like it was like 1:52:00.160 --> 1:52:03.240 lousistic mallard. If that's even a real is. 1:52:03.240 --> 1:52:07.920 The domestic tree of life for fort first, for. 1:52:08.000 --> 1:52:11.240 Mallard, because a blonde Mallard is a prized piece for. 1:52:10.840 --> 1:52:11.639 For very years. 1:52:11.680 --> 1:52:13.640 You should hold fills cameras. 1:52:14.280 --> 1:52:14.960 Here's one right here. 1:52:15.640 --> 1:52:18.519 Focus there you go, Matt, I have a I have 1:52:18.560 --> 1:52:22.160 a quick question as well. So as you're talking about Ossippy, 1:52:22.479 --> 1:52:25.760 so many of these mallards have game farm bird genetics 1:52:25.760 --> 1:52:28.799 in them. Matt and I have a lot of friends 1:52:28.840 --> 1:52:31.519 east and south east of the Mississippian in the southern 1:52:31.640 --> 1:52:35.360 United States who claim that they know ducks better than 1:52:35.360 --> 1:52:38.599 anybody in the world. It's a culture that prides itself 1:52:38.600 --> 1:52:41.840 on being duck hunters. Would it be fair, in your 1:52:41.880 --> 1:52:44.840 scientific opinion, for us, when we are hunting with them 1:52:45.640 --> 1:52:48.040 to let them know that the birds that they so 1:52:48.280 --> 1:52:50.760 love and shoot are in fact, genetically inferior. 1:52:50.800 --> 1:52:52.519 I think that's what he's getting at to what we have. 1:52:53.280 --> 1:52:56.640 I'll let you make that conclusion, okay. 1:52:56.640 --> 1:52:59.479 But afterwards, your game farm ducks, the game farm ducks 1:52:59.520 --> 1:53:01.160 you guys got, can you write me a note after 1:53:01.520 --> 1:53:04.080 sign it? I walk through like I'm telling you. 1:53:04.040 --> 1:53:07.080 That doctor said this. Yeah, doctor Phil tells you. 1:53:07.720 --> 1:53:09.760 Because I want to have I would like to have 1:53:09.800 --> 1:53:12.280 some some bragging rights. 1:53:12.360 --> 1:53:16.200 Yeah, I feel like, well, yeah, we're pure game park ducks, dude, 1:53:16.200 --> 1:53:18.559 and like, no, wonder you got him. I hope you 1:53:18.560 --> 1:53:20.439 got it. I hope you I'd hope you'd be able 1:53:20.439 --> 1:53:21.840 to get one. Yeah. 1:53:22.080 --> 1:53:23.920 Yeah, you guys don't even need calls, you just go 1:53:24.040 --> 1:53:28.800 quack quack and yeah, okay, so we're going to talk 1:53:28.800 --> 1:53:29.200 more about that. 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:31.840 Let's put white bread out. Actually, don't feel that that 1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:32.599 causes them. 1:53:32.760 --> 1:53:34.519 Uh, it doesn't matter. 1:53:35.280 --> 1:53:38.479 All right, all right, So so we were doing it. 1:53:38.560 --> 1:53:41.240 So where was that night, twenty twenty pav Yeah. 1:53:41.280 --> 1:53:42.240 You were global Global. 1:53:42.680 --> 1:53:45.679 So I also knew that they released game far mallards 1:53:45.680 --> 1:53:48.360 in New Zealand. They stopped in nineteen what was it, 1:53:48.439 --> 1:53:51.120 nineteen seventies or so, I think it's the date. 1:53:52.040 --> 1:53:54.720 So what was their duck with it? 1:53:55.200 --> 1:53:59.360 We record show both game farm mallards were bought from 1:53:59.360 --> 1:54:02.160 Europe and brought there. That was the first time. 1:54:02.240 --> 1:54:05.040 Did they have what native ducks they have? Oh? Did 1:54:05.080 --> 1:54:06.080 they have a Mallard light? 1:54:06.200 --> 1:54:06.360 Yeah? 1:54:06.439 --> 1:54:09.080 Yeah, it's called the New Zealand Gray Duck. It's part 1:54:09.080 --> 1:54:10.639 of the Pacific Black Duck group. 1:54:10.920 --> 1:54:12.840 But it's it's a it's a Mallard off. 1:54:12.880 --> 1:54:13.960 It's a Mallard off shoot. 1:54:14.040 --> 1:54:15.840 Yeah, it's totally different though. 1:54:16.200 --> 1:54:19.479 Yeah, all right, so we call this Mallard complex. It's 1:54:19.479 --> 1:54:22.840 like a Mallard complex. But actually the Mallard was not 1:54:23.120 --> 1:54:25.479 the source for all of these other ducks. It's it's 1:54:25.520 --> 1:54:29.600 an African species which was completely we probably extinct, but 1:54:29.680 --> 1:54:32.760 most likely part of like the African black duck, yellow 1:54:32.800 --> 1:54:36.360 bill duck group. We call it the Mallard complex because 1:54:36.440 --> 1:54:41.600 we have a complex with mallards and yeah, it's like mallard. 1:54:41.640 --> 1:54:46.320 Oh yeah. Anyway, So so so we I had done 1:54:46.400 --> 1:54:49.960 a scientific collecting trip in New Zealand where we collected 1:54:50.000 --> 1:54:53.560 four hundred birds all around the South Island north falling piece, 1:54:53.880 --> 1:54:54.480 fowling piece. 1:54:54.560 --> 1:54:54.760 Yeah. 1:54:54.760 --> 1:54:56.920 Did you do it out of season or in season? 1:54:57.040 --> 1:54:57.160 No? 1:54:57.240 --> 1:54:59.920 In season? Yeah, just straight up hunting. 1:55:00.920 --> 1:55:02.240 It's called scientific collective. 1:55:02.320 --> 1:55:06.200 I mean you guys are like scientists, decoy calling. 1:55:07.320 --> 1:55:08.960 Well, that's how you get them, inn yet I don't know. 1:55:08.920 --> 1:55:11.880 If you get some other things you're about, like you 1:55:11.920 --> 1:55:14.440 shoot them out of golf course ponds. I don't know. 1:55:14.880 --> 1:55:18.200 No, maybe in Mexico we did that. 1:55:18.280 --> 1:55:20.040 So you're like, like I would have looked, but like 1:55:20.040 --> 1:55:21.600 those guys are duck hunting, but in fact you were 1:55:21.640 --> 1:55:22.440 collecting specimens. 1:55:22.480 --> 1:55:25.200 Yeah okay, yeah, so we did this whole thing. So 1:55:25.320 --> 1:55:28.040 I had a bunch of mallards that are so so. 1:55:28.120 --> 1:55:30.480 Their population I think the last estimate was also three 1:55:30.640 --> 1:55:34.640 just about three million, so they're doing well. The question 1:55:34.800 --> 1:55:37.080 is where did they come from? Right, so we know 1:55:37.160 --> 1:55:40.120 that they had two efforts of bringing in mallards into 1:55:40.120 --> 1:55:42.200 New Zealand. One came out of Europe and another one 1:55:42.240 --> 1:55:44.800 they came to North America. And they bought mallards from 1:55:44.800 --> 1:55:46.000 North America. 1:55:45.840 --> 1:55:47.760 Really thinking of assuming they were different. 1:55:48.080 --> 1:55:51.320 Hey. Uh, when I was in New Zealand, I shot 1:55:51.360 --> 1:55:56.000 with my rifle a Canada goose, did you, yeah, which 1:55:56.000 --> 1:55:58.520 are like wide old the rifle. That's the same deal, right, 1:55:58.560 --> 1:55:58.960 I mean it is. 1:55:59.760 --> 1:56:01.880 Those Those were Canada geese that were probably I don't 1:56:01.880 --> 1:56:03.720 know where they brought were brought from, but I'm assuming 1:56:03.720 --> 1:56:04.440 from the States. 1:56:04.440 --> 1:56:07.040 They just brought like caught them loose, same thing. 1:56:07.200 --> 1:56:10.120 Yeah, you know the moose that they brought there was 1:56:10.200 --> 1:56:11.000 I think new Fie. 1:56:11.080 --> 1:56:12.640 They think they're gone, yeah. 1:56:12.440 --> 1:56:14.120 But every so often they like pop up. 1:56:15.520 --> 1:56:16.760 It's become their Tasmanian. 1:56:28.320 --> 1:56:30.480 So Phil, I was in New Zealand and I did 1:56:30.480 --> 1:56:33.080 a duck hunt as well, and their prize duck is 1:56:33.120 --> 1:56:35.400 the mallard. Right, everybody wants to shoot the mallard down. 1:56:35.320 --> 1:56:37.240 There, and would you look and be like that's a mallard. 1:56:37.400 --> 1:56:40.200 Well, so here's my thing. So I wanted to shoot 1:56:40.200 --> 1:56:45.240 Perry's because Perry's are super cool. What's that duck? Paradise 1:56:45.280 --> 1:56:49.360 shell duck yep, so super fascinating native to their Yeah, yep. 1:56:49.440 --> 1:56:53.160 And it's fascinating that with the paradise shell duck. Not 1:56:53.240 --> 1:56:57.240 to get off subject, but the drake is actually black 1:56:58.000 --> 1:57:02.160 and the hen is all colored up. I gotta believe 1:57:02.200 --> 1:57:05.000 it has to do with no land predators. But so 1:57:05.440 --> 1:57:09.160 I was looking at the mallard there, Yeah, really cool duck. 1:57:09.800 --> 1:57:12.120 So the female is the one with the white head. 1:57:12.200 --> 1:57:12.400 Yeah. 1:57:13.760 --> 1:57:15.640 So I was looking at the mallards there, and the 1:57:15.640 --> 1:57:19.960 mallards don't fly high. They fly really low to the ground, right, 1:57:20.040 --> 1:57:21.920 And so I was like, gosh, these mallards are kind 1:57:21.920 --> 1:57:23.440 of weird. They work a little bit funny over the 1:57:23.480 --> 1:57:25.600 decoys work to the call a little bit different. We 1:57:25.720 --> 1:57:30.400 get them in, and I was convinced that the legs 1:57:30.400 --> 1:57:34.880 of the mallard were further towards the head than of 1:57:34.960 --> 1:57:37.440 the ducks that we usually shoot. And the only thing 1:57:37.440 --> 1:57:40.000 that I could come up with was that maybe on 1:57:40.040 --> 1:57:42.160 the nesting site they don't because they don't have any 1:57:42.240 --> 1:57:44.600 land predators, they don't have to like stand straight up, 1:57:44.640 --> 1:57:48.040 so they're more adapt for, you know, hanging out on 1:57:48.080 --> 1:57:50.800 the ground and feeding and doing that sort of thing. 1:57:51.120 --> 1:57:53.840 But I could tell a very distinct difference between not 1:57:53.880 --> 1:57:55.640 only the way they acted, but the way they looked. 1:57:56.560 --> 1:57:59.600 In New Zealand specifically, I'm assuming you never saw one 1:58:00.240 --> 1:58:02.040 perfectly looking green head. 1:58:02.200 --> 1:58:07.560 I mean they all looked the same. Yeah, they looked different. Yeah, 1:58:07.600 --> 1:58:09.560 not like a farm duck, but like different. 1:58:10.920 --> 1:58:12.760 Yeah yeah yeah. 1:58:12.400 --> 1:58:16.640 So New Zealand had their source was game farm mallards 1:58:16.640 --> 1:58:21.080 from Europe and from North America. Another one we went, 1:58:21.280 --> 1:58:23.400 I have a study looking at Hawaiian ducks and this 1:58:23.480 --> 1:58:27.200 issue with hybridization with domestic mallards there, so I had 1:58:27.200 --> 1:58:29.840 mallards from Hawaii as well. I thought those were going 1:58:29.880 --> 1:58:32.200 to be park ducks. So let's just like move forward 1:58:32.200 --> 1:58:36.920 into the into what we now know feral populations on 1:58:37.000 --> 1:58:40.800 Hawaii as well as New Zealand source population were game 1:58:40.800 --> 1:58:43.800 farm mallards. The interesting thing there is both of those 1:58:43.880 --> 1:58:49.120 locations had a stop on release, right, So for for 1:58:49.240 --> 1:58:53.120 fifty sixty years, formal stop a formal stop, right, So 1:58:53.200 --> 1:58:57.600 you weren't adding stuff into it. I know that New Zealand. 1:58:57.840 --> 1:59:01.200 New Zealand's like the best case situation to compare because 1:59:01.200 --> 1:59:04.680 it's at a larger scale. But they went with thirty 1:59:04.720 --> 1:59:07.040 thousand birds, they had a drop in population size and 1:59:07.080 --> 1:59:11.120 now have three million. So obviously there was enough genetic variation, 1:59:11.320 --> 1:59:13.920 enough situation where they were able to survive through the 1:59:14.080 --> 1:59:16.800 like oh, we have really bad genetics, and then come 1:59:16.840 --> 1:59:20.240 out the other end. Now, our work also suggests that 1:59:20.280 --> 1:59:23.320 they interbred with those New Zealand gray ducks and it 1:59:23.360 --> 1:59:26.440 looks like they got some of those functionally important genes 1:59:26.520 --> 1:59:28.440 from them, which is super cool. 1:59:28.720 --> 1:59:31.520 But the other part of it, there's no predators, right. 1:59:31.640 --> 1:59:34.480 That gives them time to be like, oh, we're really 1:59:34.560 --> 1:59:36.880 bad at life, but we'll survive long enough. 1:59:36.880 --> 1:59:39.080 Oh yeah, feral cats are the only thing that kill them. 1:59:39.240 --> 1:59:42.680 Yeah, and New Zealanders as if you guys have been there, man, 1:59:42.720 --> 1:59:46.480 they like to just shoot everything off like cats everything. 1:59:46.640 --> 1:59:51.920 You know, they're there to shoot stuff. So anyway, so 1:59:52.480 --> 1:59:56.680 Europe we were able to confirm is the game for 1:59:56.920 --> 2:00:01.960 the wild mallard from Europe is the ancestor of all 2:00:02.440 --> 2:00:07.720 mallards including in North America. Now we got birds. The 2:00:07.760 --> 2:00:11.920 only genetic difference was mallards out of Greenland. Don't know 2:00:11.960 --> 2:00:14.800 exactly what that's about, but it's most likely that a 2:00:14.840 --> 2:00:17.760 bunch of mallards went there and sort of like probably 2:00:17.760 --> 2:00:21.640 a long time ago, and turned into genetically changed for time. 2:00:23.880 --> 2:00:29.240 The important thing here is that game farm mallards from 2:00:29.240 --> 2:00:32.680 Europe are the thing that is here in Hawaii, New 2:00:32.760 --> 2:00:35.800 Zealand and elsewhere. So this single lineage, it wasn't it 2:00:35.840 --> 2:00:39.680 wasn't Khaki Campbell's or any any other All the genetics, 2:00:39.760 --> 2:00:43.720 this alternative non wild genetics came from game farm mallards. 2:00:44.120 --> 2:00:47.880 So their release across the world at this point has 2:00:48.200 --> 2:00:53.480 resulted not only in feral population but also just geographically 2:00:53.920 --> 2:00:57.920 widespread hybridization with local populations. And in our case, the 2:00:57.920 --> 2:01:03.240 wild mallard so coming to so because we had so 2:01:03.280 --> 2:01:07.840 that study was two thousand samples about nine hundred and 2:01:07.920 --> 2:01:11.440 sixteen samples worldwide, about thirteen hundred samples here in North America, 2:01:11.480 --> 2:01:16.120 mostly Atlantic Flyway Mississippi Flyway, and then we put about 2:01:16.120 --> 2:01:21.360 four hundred birds mostly from the Canadian provinces that go 2:01:21.640 --> 2:01:24.720 all the way to Alaska. Go all right, So what 2:01:24.880 --> 2:01:28.760 happens in North America is you have a decrease in 2:01:28.800 --> 2:01:33.680 this genetic signature east to west, right exactly where the 2:01:33.720 --> 2:01:37.440 releases are. So then if we zoom in where we 2:01:37.480 --> 2:01:40.800 had where we identified hot spots, so kind of like 2:01:40.880 --> 2:01:47.040 epicenters of hybridization this situation. Can anybody guess in North 2:01:47.040 --> 2:01:51.680 America where the epicenter is Chesabeake Bay Almost yeah, Jersey, ooh, 2:01:53.040 --> 2:01:58.760 Jersey looks like Trance genetically, it's there really every time, 2:01:58.800 --> 2:02:01.320 no matter what year I go, no matter what year 2:02:01.360 --> 2:02:05.840 I go, Jersey will always have Feral Mallardy feral game farm. 2:02:05.880 --> 2:02:07.040 Now I have to explain. 2:02:07.040 --> 2:02:08.360 Where are they coming from there? 2:02:08.960 --> 2:02:12.240 The really the some of the major release groups. 2:02:11.800 --> 2:02:13.880 Are there, so they got they got like the dark 2:02:14.000 --> 2:02:16.280 it's numbers, the stocking. 2:02:16.440 --> 2:02:16.720 Yeah. 2:02:17.360 --> 2:02:24.240 So so that location and now some of our newer 2:02:24.320 --> 2:02:29.040 studies in the Great Lakes region is starting to find 2:02:29.240 --> 2:02:31.320 that the Great Lakes region is starting to look like 2:02:31.440 --> 2:02:36.000 Jersey and France. And these are three locations that are 2:02:36.080 --> 2:02:39.240 not doing great in duck number, in Mallard numbers. 2:02:40.280 --> 2:02:42.120 This is going to bring back the whole freedom fry 2:02:42.240 --> 2:02:42.680 thing again. 2:02:43.520 --> 2:02:46.400 So so anyway, so it's sticking with the North America 2:02:46.520 --> 2:02:49.240 just to give you some numbers. The Atlantic Flyway. So 2:02:49.320 --> 2:02:53.640 we had hunting season, non hunting seasons, the summer, summer 2:02:55.000 --> 2:02:57.280 banding time, so like, what are we banding in the 2:02:57.360 --> 2:02:59.440 in the States, and we did it state. We have 2:02:59.520 --> 2:03:00.800 every single state. 2:03:00.600 --> 2:03:02.360 Because banding is always done in the summer. 2:03:02.960 --> 2:03:07.000 Correct, Yeah, there's winter banding as well now, but the 2:03:07.040 --> 2:03:09.560 majority of the banding is summer. 2:03:09.280 --> 2:03:11.040 Because when they're molting's easy to get them. 2:03:11.120 --> 2:03:16.640 Yeah, you think that that represents your production of that state, right, 2:03:16.720 --> 2:03:17.600 So that's the production. 2:03:18.960 --> 2:03:20.400 So there's. 2:03:21.760 --> 2:03:26.440 All right, So Jersey, Massachusetts, and whether it's hunting or 2:03:26.440 --> 2:03:27.839 non hunting, I can't find. 2:03:27.600 --> 2:03:29.200 A wild mallard. It's like zero percent. 2:03:29.640 --> 2:03:36.760 What Yeah, Massachusetts, Jersey, Connecticut, I'm missing, But that. 2:03:36.720 --> 2:03:39.960 Whole little sit in the summer. In the summer, if 2:03:39.960 --> 2:03:41.640 you're in the summer, you go out to a state 2:03:41.680 --> 2:03:44.200 game refuge in New Jersey, you're handling either a feral 2:03:45.200 --> 2:03:47.720 thunkel mallard over the head. That's not a wild mallard. 2:03:48.640 --> 2:03:54.920 Yeah, genetically, you're funny. Yes, it's not a North American 2:03:54.920 --> 2:03:56.000 wild mallard anymore. 2:03:57.040 --> 2:03:58.960 So New York's a little bit better. 2:03:59.200 --> 2:04:02.400 I think they were like sixty sixty forty sixty percent 2:04:02.760 --> 2:04:05.640 mostly wild forty. But New York's an interesting piece because 2:04:05.680 --> 2:04:09.280 we now know that there is a substantial number of 2:04:09.320 --> 2:04:13.920 Canadian birds. Canadian birds Mallard's out of Canada moving in 2:04:14.400 --> 2:04:18.040 to those states when we didn't think they were. So 2:04:18.080 --> 2:04:20.240 they're adding to the production. And what I can tell 2:04:20.280 --> 2:04:25.600 you is that Canada is is more like Quebec is 2:04:25.680 --> 2:04:29.560 sixty forty sixty percent wild, forty percent hybrid feral. 2:04:30.200 --> 2:04:32.320 I did want to mention, so have they has Quebec? 2:04:32.400 --> 2:04:34.640 Does Quebec have a history of cutting birds loose? 2:04:35.320 --> 2:04:36.120 Not that we know of. 2:04:36.360 --> 2:04:39.280 No, it's it's it's it's okay. So they didn't create this, 2:04:39.440 --> 2:04:40.680 it's just happening to them. 2:04:40.760 --> 2:04:43.280 So that's the whole epicenter of what we find. So 2:04:43.800 --> 2:04:46.400 what a feral bird is is a bird that is 2:04:46.440 --> 2:04:48.640 in the wild. Right, they're not in the cage anymore. 2:04:48.720 --> 2:04:50.640 They're in the wild. I don't know if they're in 2:04:50.680 --> 2:04:53.400 the wild this year, last year, whatever, So I just 2:04:53.400 --> 2:04:54.960 have to call them feral, just like you would call 2:04:55.000 --> 2:04:58.000 a feral pig. Right if you let loose pigs and 2:04:58.040 --> 2:04:59.920 then you had no idea and you came out to 2:05:00.120 --> 2:05:02.280 some property in West Texas, you'd be like, oh, feral 2:05:02.320 --> 2:05:03.880 pigs because you had no idea. 2:05:03.960 --> 2:05:06.120 You don't know the individual's history, correct, He could be 2:05:06.160 --> 2:05:10.760 tenth generation in the wild, first generation but he's just feral, right. 2:05:10.800 --> 2:05:15.880 And so where you expect, So the epicenter would always 2:05:15.960 --> 2:05:18.760 have feral birds as well as things that are back 2:05:18.840 --> 2:05:22.480 crossing genetically interbreeding with these game farm lineages. So you 2:05:22.480 --> 2:05:28.200 have things that are moving like between wild and game farm, 2:05:28.240 --> 2:05:31.280 but more game farming. Yeah, and so that's an epicenter, 2:05:31.520 --> 2:05:34.000 and that's Jersey. What happens as you move away from 2:05:34.080 --> 2:05:37.720 Jersey is it sort of dissipates. So these genes are 2:05:37.720 --> 2:05:41.440 being perpetuated through the landscape, but then what they're doing 2:05:41.560 --> 2:05:45.920 is eventually back crossing into wild, so they're becoming more wild. Now, 2:05:46.040 --> 2:05:48.920 the problem with Atlantic Flyway in the US side is 2:05:48.920 --> 2:05:53.240 there's no more parental the average if you go out 2:05:53.320 --> 2:05:56.680 somewhere in the Atlantic Flyway, the average general average. Some 2:05:56.720 --> 2:06:00.400 states are better, obviously. You look at a mallard currently, well, 2:06:00.400 --> 2:06:02.160 at least in twenty twenty three. 2:06:02.640 --> 2:06:03.960 Yeah, currently twenty two. 2:06:04.360 --> 2:06:09.600 Uh, it's two percent wild wild. You gotta you drop 2:06:09.600 --> 2:06:13.000 a mallard out of the sky. In in the Atlantic Flyway, 2:06:13.040 --> 2:06:16.360 it's about two percent. Again, some states are better than like. 2:06:17.040 --> 2:06:21.880 The fake not fake. The feral ducks have effectively in 2:06:21.960 --> 2:06:25.800 these areas they have replaced wild mallards more or less. Yeah, 2:06:25.880 --> 2:06:27.640 let me hit you with the let me hit Let's 2:06:27.640 --> 2:06:30.400 say you're not interested. Let's say you don't care about 2:06:30.640 --> 2:06:34.480 endemism and use like the hunt docks, and you don't 2:06:34.480 --> 2:06:36.480 care about the genetics of the duck. Yeah, so let 2:06:36.520 --> 2:06:39.280 me hit you with the who cares? I mean, is 2:06:39.760 --> 2:06:46.320 New Jersey just kicking ass at duck recruitment? No, no, no, 2:06:46.400 --> 2:06:47.040 that's the problem. 2:06:47.160 --> 2:06:50.560 So the Atlantic Flyway has been declining two percent in 2:06:50.600 --> 2:06:54.800 its annual production over the last twenty years, just constantly 2:06:54.920 --> 2:06:59.480 ticking ticking, ticking ticking. In fact, they were down for 2:06:59.760 --> 2:07:02.400 a five hundred I think they somehow found. 2:07:02.440 --> 2:07:06.720 Like regardless of the gene background, we're just talking. 2:07:06.520 --> 2:07:08.160 Like ducks, No mallards. 2:07:08.200 --> 2:07:12.600 We're talking about I'm sorry, and the mallards like the mallards, 2:07:12.600 --> 2:07:16.880 regardless of what you're counting. If you're like, there are 2:07:16.960 --> 2:07:22.360 fewer and fewer mallards out there every year, regardless of 2:07:22.400 --> 2:07:24.960 whether you're dividing them into wild or well. We didn't 2:07:25.000 --> 2:07:27.320 know what was the cause. Yeah, but you know that 2:07:27.960 --> 2:07:32.880 they all have their heritage, is all. We now know 2:07:32.920 --> 2:07:35.360 that arm raised. Their numbers are going down. 2:07:35.480 --> 2:07:38.720 So the next question is obviously doesn't matter right, sure, 2:07:41.040 --> 2:07:43.440 all right, so it's about two percent there. But then 2:07:43.480 --> 2:07:46.720 as you go to the Mississippi Flyway, there's an interesting 2:07:46.760 --> 2:07:50.600 aspect and we uh uh some work between Brian Davis 2:07:50.600 --> 2:07:54.640 and Mississippi stay Rikaminski and others, Kevin Ringleman. We did 2:07:54.840 --> 2:08:00.120 a a sort of like Lower Mississippi Alluvial Valley, if 2:08:00.120 --> 2:08:04.800 you know that area, Georgia, Louisiana, parts of Missouri. We've 2:08:04.960 --> 2:08:07.280 got a bunch of birds there. And then I've partnered 2:08:07.320 --> 2:08:10.320 with Ben Lucanan out of Michigan State, got a whole 2:08:10.360 --> 2:08:12.400 bunch of hundreds of birds out of the Great Lakes. 2:08:13.560 --> 2:08:17.879 And there's this interesting dynamic. You go south of Tennessee, 2:08:18.880 --> 2:08:21.880 ninety four percent of those birds are wild, just wild, 2:08:21.960 --> 2:08:25.920 straight up wild. Go north of Tennessee towards the Great Lakes, 2:08:25.960 --> 2:08:29.960 it's increasingly becoming more and more game farming. So current 2:08:30.280 --> 2:08:34.600 estimates general again average seventy thirty seventy percent game farmy 2:08:34.960 --> 2:08:37.680 Faral versus the Great Lakes. Yeah, and the Great Lakes 2:08:37.720 --> 2:08:40.200 is the next place where those populations have been declining. 2:08:41.640 --> 2:08:44.440 They're exactly those locations. So again you could say, oh, 2:08:44.520 --> 2:08:47.240 you have no data for association of that sort sure, 2:08:47.560 --> 2:08:51.040 but my hypothesis is at least provide something is happening. 2:08:52.240 --> 2:08:56.880 So again, so what's so all right, so now everybody's 2:08:56.920 --> 2:08:57.320 on track. 2:08:57.800 --> 2:09:00.480 I get a question, Yeah, are you grabbing these ducks 2:09:01.000 --> 2:09:02.360 during the breeding season. 2:09:04.160 --> 2:09:05.280 From all these different states? 2:09:05.360 --> 2:09:05.600 Yeah? 2:09:05.640 --> 2:09:07.240 So so that works. 2:09:07.280 --> 2:09:12.839 So they're they're breeding the two separate, separate types of sampling. 2:09:12.880 --> 2:09:15.800 So we do hunter harvest sampling. Hunters are just you know, 2:09:15.880 --> 2:09:17.720 during the hunting season, we get a bunch of samples. 2:09:18.320 --> 2:09:18.400 Uh. 2:09:18.520 --> 2:09:22.080 But then there's banding crews again. Ben Lucanan and his 2:09:22.080 --> 2:09:25.720 his crew out of the Great Lakes, Doug Osborne or 2:09:25.760 --> 2:09:30.480 of University of Arkansas, uh, Brad Cohen out of Tennessee Tech, 2:09:31.720 --> 2:09:34.440 and Brian Brian Davis out of Mississippi State. They are 2:09:34.440 --> 2:09:38.360 constantly catching, putting telemetry units and banding and. 2:09:38.320 --> 2:09:39.680 All that stuff up out of the wat. 2:09:41.320 --> 2:09:43.560 So then so then I partnered with them and be like, 2:09:43.560 --> 2:09:45.120 all right, just bleed them a little bit and get 2:09:45.120 --> 2:09:45.800 me that sample. 2:09:45.880 --> 2:09:47.200 Right, We're not killing those birds. 2:09:48.760 --> 2:09:52.360 So so uh so then we have those two comparisons. 2:09:52.360 --> 2:09:56.320 What are we banding during what summer? And then what 2:09:56.360 --> 2:09:58.640 are we harvesting? So we have those types of comparisons 2:09:58.640 --> 2:10:01.200 so we're building those data sets to answer how does 2:10:01.240 --> 2:10:07.160 the mixture between Canada raised mallards and US mallards occur 2:10:07.280 --> 2:10:12.080 across the hunting time span? Because if you go to 2:10:12.320 --> 2:10:15.400 folks in the Mississippi, they'd be like, all our ducks. 2:10:15.240 --> 2:10:16.360 Are stopping in the north. 2:10:16.560 --> 2:10:19.520 Yeah for sure, Yeah, because. 2:10:19.320 --> 2:10:21.400 Yeah, I was just thinking about migration and I'm like, 2:10:22.120 --> 2:10:24.360 how do you know where this exact duck came from? 2:10:24.440 --> 2:10:24.640 Yeah? 2:10:25.400 --> 2:10:27.280 Yeah, So so that was our question. 2:10:28.040 --> 2:10:30.800 All right, so we know this, so we we now 2:10:30.880 --> 2:10:33.240 we publish these papers and we know this like different 2:10:33.840 --> 2:10:38.720 population dynamics going on. We you know, so I partner 2:10:38.760 --> 2:10:41.240 with them and we've got telemetry units on them. Right, 2:10:42.160 --> 2:10:46.000 can anybody guess trivia where those birds in the lower 2:10:46.040 --> 2:10:50.400 Mississippi Alluvia Valley are from? Given their genetics of wild 2:10:50.880 --> 2:10:53.680 I made a hypothesis and thankfully I was right to. 2:10:53.640 --> 2:10:56.320 The west more Preci. 2:10:57.200 --> 2:10:58.120 Exactly Dakota. 2:10:58.480 --> 2:11:02.160 Every every bird that was that, I think, every bird 2:11:02.200 --> 2:11:04.879 maybe not maybe except for one that was a hybrid, 2:11:05.200 --> 2:11:08.640 went to the Great Lakes. And then really and then 2:11:08.640 --> 2:11:11.520 the Great Lakes birds do they do you think they have? 2:11:12.040 --> 2:11:16.320 So well, we have four years now of telemetry units 2:11:16.560 --> 2:11:19.440 tied with genetics, so we know what's happening. What do 2:11:19.480 --> 2:11:22.240 you think those birds are doing? Are they migrating? Are 2:11:22.240 --> 2:11:25.880 they what would you expected on which birds like Great 2:11:25.920 --> 2:11:28.520 Lakes birds given that I told you about this, like 2:11:29.080 --> 2:11:31.200 increasingly game farming situation. 2:11:30.920 --> 2:11:35.040 Should be holding they should be holding strong where somewhere 2:11:35.120 --> 2:11:37.600 up in the Great Lakes, somewhere up in that region 2:11:38.040 --> 2:11:39.680 because they're not going to migrate all the way south. 2:11:39.760 --> 2:11:43.320 Yeah, they do a random walk, a walk, it's called 2:11:43.400 --> 2:11:45.920 random walk. There isn't a straight path. Some birds go 2:11:45.920 --> 2:11:49.560 to the Atlantics. Some birds go south, but then there's 2:11:49.600 --> 2:11:52.480 this wall in Tennessee that they do not cross. 2:11:52.600 --> 2:11:55.240 Don't understand why, trying to figure that out. And they 2:11:55.280 --> 2:11:58.520 go straight back up. All of the birds with thirty percent. 2:11:58.760 --> 2:12:01.640 So they'll scatter off various directions. 2:12:01.040 --> 2:12:04.920 Just it's more random. Yeah, it's completely random. It's it's 2:12:04.960 --> 2:12:08.880 not significantly different from random. Right, So the birds in 2:12:08.880 --> 2:12:10.840 the lower Mississippi have this like straight patch. 2:12:10.880 --> 2:12:12.760 Well, have you been able to watch any of these 2:12:12.880 --> 2:12:15.000 ducks and see what he does? Is he doing this? 2:12:15.200 --> 2:12:17.600 Is he is an individual duck doing the same thing, 2:12:17.680 --> 2:12:20.160 or is an individual duck doing different directions all the time? 2:12:20.720 --> 2:12:23.600 Individual duck is doing random walks. 2:12:24.320 --> 2:12:26.800 Okay, so in twenty twenty one he does this. In 2:12:26.800 --> 2:12:27.640 twenty twenty two. 2:12:27.920 --> 2:12:31.480 They survive well. So it's these ones are all females. 2:12:31.920 --> 2:12:34.640 I wish we would put males because they're the males 2:12:34.680 --> 2:12:37.480 and waterfowl are the dispersing sex. So if you've got 2:12:37.480 --> 2:12:40.280 a game farmy male or a game farming female, it's 2:12:40.280 --> 2:12:43.160 the male that's most likely to move the gees. But 2:12:43.640 --> 2:12:46.160 nobody wants to put telemetry and it's on males. Apparently 2:12:46.360 --> 2:12:49.760 it's unfortunate because I was good shot. Yeah no, because 2:12:49.800 --> 2:12:53.480 then you can look at nest nesting, perpetual nesting and all, 2:12:53.560 --> 2:12:56.000 and that's like the next that's the main question that 2:12:56.040 --> 2:12:59.200 they're all asking, Like, you know, these populations are declining, 2:12:59.200 --> 2:13:01.440 so they're always just like, okay, what are the females doing? 2:13:01.640 --> 2:13:02.840 Like what is the problem. 2:13:04.000 --> 2:13:06.040 I have a timeline question because I'm just kind of 2:13:06.080 --> 2:13:09.000 tracking what you're saying. So boreal forests go way back. 2:13:09.360 --> 2:13:12.040 You had said that there was no mallards in the 2:13:12.200 --> 2:13:16.760 Northern Atlantic Northeast region. Yeah, anyways, that there was a 2:13:16.800 --> 2:13:20.160 bunch down south of Tennessee. Naturally, there was a bunch 2:13:20.200 --> 2:13:23.360 of while down there already there was none up in 2:13:23.400 --> 2:13:26.600 the New Jersey area, so they brought them in. We 2:13:26.680 --> 2:13:29.000 have the American black duck who's not getting messed with 2:13:29.000 --> 2:13:32.520 with you know what's going on here, And now all 2:13:32.520 --> 2:13:35.000 of a sudden, there's mallards again. It kind of goes 2:13:35.040 --> 2:13:36.480 back to the hooket, like, now all of a sudden, 2:13:36.560 --> 2:13:38.600 we have a bunch of mallards there that we didn't 2:13:38.640 --> 2:13:43.240 have before, and they weren't migrating in because they're staying 2:13:43.240 --> 2:13:45.720 in Canada or coming around the Great Lakes or whatever. 2:13:46.400 --> 2:13:49.600 So like that region there, there's a population that was 2:13:49.640 --> 2:13:52.160 never there before and now it is. And yes it's 2:13:52.160 --> 2:13:55.120 a game farm mallard. So is it more the wide 2:13:55.160 --> 2:13:57.280 spread of that that's the issue, or. 2:13:57.240 --> 2:13:58.480 Is it it's the spreading. 2:13:58.640 --> 2:14:02.360 It's the spreading that we don't like, because having a 2:14:02.400 --> 2:14:05.880 mallard in New Jersey is seems like it's a success story. 2:14:05.960 --> 2:14:08.280 Yeah, but when you say that all the mallard, yeah, 2:14:08.320 --> 2:14:11.280 like all the mallards in New Jersey are game fire mallards. 2:14:11.440 --> 2:14:15.120 But was there ever a difference meaning they went from 2:14:15.160 --> 2:14:17.760 no mallards to just only game fire mallards? 2:14:17.800 --> 2:14:20.280 So I hope to answer that question soon with those 2:14:20.320 --> 2:14:22.880 eighteen hundreds, So we did we redid that study. We 2:14:22.920 --> 2:14:26.600 have eight hundred historical samples from eighteen hundred to today 2:14:26.680 --> 2:14:29.400 to answer that question, how did it happen? We know 2:14:29.640 --> 2:14:30.760 what we have now. 2:14:30.760 --> 2:14:32.840 But you know where the samples came from, and. 2:14:32.800 --> 2:14:34.880 We know exactly where the samples came from with the 2:14:34.960 --> 2:14:35.680 dates location. 2:14:35.920 --> 2:14:37.720 So there were mallards that got killed out of New 2:14:37.800 --> 2:14:40.640 Jersey the eighteen hundreds, yeah, okay, yeah, number. 2:14:40.520 --> 2:14:43.920 Some number, yeah yeah, yeah, I mean people shoot still 2:14:43.960 --> 2:14:47.000 shoot cinnamon teal in there every so often, right, so 2:14:47.440 --> 2:14:49.600 these things got collected. Is I'm sure at that time 2:14:49.680 --> 2:14:51.240 you shot a malley, you're like, oh, man, put this 2:14:51.280 --> 2:14:52.280 thing into the museum. 2:14:52.320 --> 2:14:54.480 It was you were surprised. Yeah, I see, I see 2:14:54.840 --> 2:14:56.280 some strays would go through that. 2:14:56.360 --> 2:14:57.240 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 2:14:59.320 --> 2:15:00.280 Yeah. 2:15:00.000 --> 2:15:04.160 So now we're seeing these migratory differences that are that 2:15:04.240 --> 2:15:07.400 at least to some extent, are genetically associated. Because we 2:15:07.480 --> 2:15:10.320 have this nice association of an individual that's and it's 2:15:10.480 --> 2:15:13.640 very weird. Don't know why yet, but thirty percent or 2:15:13.680 --> 2:15:16.600 more game farm makes them do weird things. 2:15:17.320 --> 2:15:19.360 All right, So now we've got so now we have 2:15:19.480 --> 2:15:21.080 sort of lists like situation. 2:15:21.200 --> 2:15:21.320 Oh. 2:15:21.360 --> 2:15:23.600 The other thing is is birds in the Atlantic Flyway 2:15:23.720 --> 2:15:26.960 had a connect connectivity to the Atlantic Flyway. There's birds 2:15:26.960 --> 2:15:30.200 that are interchanging. So the question is like, why is 2:15:30.240 --> 2:15:32.480 there increasing game farm in the Great Lakes. 2:15:32.520 --> 2:15:35.360 Is it people releasing them or is it just this. 2:15:35.480 --> 2:15:38.520 Like kind of ebb and flow between the Atlantic Flyway 2:15:38.680 --> 2:15:42.160 and the Great Lakes region kind of this natural, semi 2:15:42.240 --> 2:15:43.320 natural ebb and flow. 2:15:43.640 --> 2:15:45.360 That's the question that we hope to answer. 2:15:45.800 --> 2:15:49.480 Are there people releasing If they're releasing them, they're not 2:15:49.480 --> 2:15:50.080 supposed to be. 2:15:51.760 --> 2:15:55.200 That's a state that's a state by state kind of situation. 2:15:55.280 --> 2:15:56.600 We I mean, how would you not know if they're 2:15:56.600 --> 2:15:57.760 releasing them in the Great Lakes. 2:15:57.760 --> 2:16:00.600 Nobody's keeping track of that as far as I can tell. 2:16:00.680 --> 2:16:05.840 Okay, yeah, so someone could be I mean the Great Lakes, 2:16:05.960 --> 2:16:07.480 I don't know what it is, five or six states, 2:16:07.480 --> 2:16:12.480 whatever the hell. Yeah, So Michigan, are there there are 2:16:12.480 --> 2:16:15.400 not to your knowledge, there are not places in Michigan 2:16:15.400 --> 2:16:18.320 that like advertise that they're dumping mallards. 2:16:17.920 --> 2:16:18.840 Not to my knowledge. Yeah. 2:16:18.880 --> 2:16:23.800 So the genetic signatures that I see there make me 2:16:23.880 --> 2:16:28.200 believe that people are because because it looks like Jersey, 2:16:28.200 --> 2:16:30.680 it looks like France. Then the whole thing is like 2:16:32.360 --> 2:16:35.800 these things have a low survival, right, So a colleague 2:16:35.800 --> 2:16:38.120 of mine in Sweden kind of did a survival estimate. 2:16:38.320 --> 2:16:41.000 They said, like three percent, But look, three percent of 2:16:41.040 --> 2:16:42.920 half a million, two hundred and fifty thousand and a 2:16:42.920 --> 2:16:47.600 half a million or more throughout time is more than enough. Yeah, right, 2:16:47.640 --> 2:16:51.039 And it's it isn't really that it's the trickle effect. 2:16:51.120 --> 2:16:52.119 It's the added every. 2:16:51.959 --> 2:16:54.760 Single year you're just you're continuing to move those genes 2:16:54.760 --> 2:16:57.760 into the population over and over and over. We can 2:16:57.800 --> 2:17:00.240 go back to rainbow trot. So the fisheries are are 2:17:00.280 --> 2:17:02.800 far ahead of what we do where we are because 2:17:02.800 --> 2:17:07.240 they've been studying this. It takes only three generations for 2:17:07.240 --> 2:17:09.880 for rainbow trout to be in a stock tank. Uh, 2:17:10.120 --> 2:17:13.560 for for fifty percent of the eggs to be in viable, 2:17:14.200 --> 2:17:16.879 because what happens in this in Italy. Yeah, and the 2:17:16.920 --> 2:17:20.440 same thing with quail. Only three or four generations of 2:17:20.480 --> 2:17:24.520 being in captivity, the viability decreases that much. And the 2:17:24.560 --> 2:17:28.280 reason for that is because everybody wins in a cage. Right, 2:17:28.320 --> 2:17:31.720 So you're perpetuating these genes that would have been lost 2:17:31.959 --> 2:17:35.480 every single year by natural processes in the wild. But 2:17:35.520 --> 2:17:38.360 now you're pushing the putting them into the wild. 2:17:38.640 --> 2:17:42.800 You know the unibomber got into this. Oh yeah, you 2:17:42.879 --> 2:17:44.199 read the manifesto. 2:17:44.320 --> 2:17:46.680 I know, I know the unise Yeah no, well I'll 2:17:46.680 --> 2:17:48.640 just give it to Oh my god, didn't I didn't 2:17:48.680 --> 2:17:49.280 see this coming. 2:17:49.320 --> 2:17:53.279 He rates levels of difficulty one to five and his manifesto, 2:17:53.800 --> 2:17:58.320 and he's like, one is I can't remember it was 2:17:58.360 --> 2:18:03.920 inverse or not, but let's say one is, Uh, try 2:18:03.959 --> 2:18:07.840 as hard as you can, you'll never succeed. Okay, Five 2:18:08.000 --> 2:18:09.879 is you don't even need to try, and you'll succeed. 2:18:10.920 --> 2:18:14.800 His deal is that technology that Human Survival used to 2:18:14.840 --> 2:18:17.640 hover like at the two three. Yeah, try pretty hard. 2:18:18.000 --> 2:18:21.520 He tried pretty hard, you'll be okay. Now you can 2:18:21.560 --> 2:18:22.640 do the opposite to try. 2:18:23.320 --> 2:18:25.000 You sit there and just be fine. 2:18:25.840 --> 2:18:30.960 And and that's part of his gripe with technology. Everybody 2:18:31.000 --> 2:18:32.080 wins in the cage. 2:18:32.000 --> 2:18:32.840 Everybody wins. 2:18:34.840 --> 2:18:36.920 See and then he tied that to all the neuro season. 2:18:36.959 --> 2:18:41.920 You know what I mean, there's nothing cleaning anything out anymore. 2:18:40.320 --> 2:18:44.320 Title well, we got away from we don't do a 2:18:44.320 --> 2:18:44.680 good title. 2:18:44.760 --> 2:18:47.000 This is the second podcast this month where Steve's made 2:18:47.040 --> 2:18:49.840 the guests uncomfortable by being kind of like prom. 2:18:54.440 --> 2:18:58.280 It's just springing it in. I'm not pro unibomber at all. 2:18:59.240 --> 2:19:02.400 I took a class in college called political rhetoric, and 2:19:02.440 --> 2:19:05.960 we read political rhetic everything from Doctor King, Camille Paglia, 2:19:06.320 --> 2:19:08.960 the Unibomber, Like, we read it all. And I think 2:19:09.000 --> 2:19:10.600 a lot of people know about the Unibomber, but not 2:19:10.600 --> 2:19:13.560 a lot of people had to read the Unibomber's manifesto. No, 2:19:14.040 --> 2:19:15.760 so you had to read the Unibomber's manifesto. 2:19:15.920 --> 2:19:17.520 Are you going to talk about Charlie Manson? 2:19:17.560 --> 2:19:22.320 Now, we didn't read anything abou Charlie. I'll have to 2:19:22.360 --> 2:19:24.360 write doctor Gillison note and tell him that he should 2:19:24.360 --> 2:19:26.960 have had some Charlie Manson writings in there. But no, 2:19:28.120 --> 2:19:30.920 not pro unibomber, but just he had a motive. He 2:19:30.959 --> 2:19:33.879 had he had like motivating thoughts. 2:19:34.280 --> 2:19:37.280 No, yeah, I mean in a cage, everybody wins. I 2:19:37.280 --> 2:19:40.880 mean I teach I teach similar things, right, is it 2:19:41.000 --> 2:19:46.879 not unibomber things I teach? You know, Like, look, humans, 2:19:46.360 --> 2:19:52.320 everybody's surprised always that the effective population size of humans 2:19:52.400 --> 2:19:55.600 is ten thousand people. That's how many people there should 2:19:55.600 --> 2:19:58.560 be and it hasn't changed. And everybody's like, well, why 2:19:58.640 --> 2:20:03.640 is that that's because genetic very genetic variation doesn't come 2:20:03.959 --> 2:20:07.720 come up that fast. Our populations exploded only in the 2:20:07.800 --> 2:20:12.000 last two hundred years, really, right, and so for a 2:20:12.120 --> 2:20:15.080 very very for ninety nine percent of our history, we 2:20:15.080 --> 2:20:19.840 were at an effective population size of ten thousand breeding pairs. 2:20:20.360 --> 2:20:23.080 And that's what the earth was more or less okay 2:20:23.120 --> 2:20:28.040 with and so and so there was a stability, There 2:20:28.080 --> 2:20:33.280 was a stability, and society, domestication, all of these things 2:20:33.320 --> 2:20:37.800 allowed that population to grow. But it's only that God, 2:20:37.840 --> 2:20:39.360 I got loss of where I was going with this, 2:20:39.440 --> 2:20:42.320 but but I'm going to it is because yeah, it through. 2:20:44.280 --> 2:20:45.560 Society. Society. 2:20:46.480 --> 2:20:49.360 Society is our cage, and it becomes you know, we 2:20:49.600 --> 2:20:52.400 we we go further and further further to the four 2:20:52.520 --> 2:20:54.680 or five. Well, earlier on, as long as you were 2:20:54.760 --> 2:20:56.920 kings and stuff like that, you were really out of five. 2:20:57.160 --> 2:20:58.640 Everybody else was still kind of at a two. 2:20:58.840 --> 2:21:06.640 Yeah, you know, So what's the if the situation goes 2:21:07.640 --> 2:21:13.800 and continues to happen? Yeah, do you picture that? Do 2:21:13.840 --> 2:21:15.960 you picture that they'll continue to move westward? 2:21:16.400 --> 2:21:17.119 That's exactly, Souse. 2:21:17.120 --> 2:21:20.080 There's some amount astray, like exactly like when you look 2:21:20.120 --> 2:21:22.560 at that salm and a lot of salmon make a 2:21:22.600 --> 2:21:25.680 wrong turn, correct, and that's how they colonize new rivers. Correct, 2:21:25.840 --> 2:21:28.120 like they just go out the wrong river. Most of 2:21:28.120 --> 2:21:30.360 the time they do that. It doesn't work out now 2:21:30.360 --> 2:21:32.280 and then one does that and he's like, sweet, yep, 2:21:33.280 --> 2:21:34.840 that hold new salmon stream. 2:21:35.080 --> 2:21:40.879 No, no, absolutely, And that's exactly what's happening. It's we 2:21:40.879 --> 2:21:43.760 we ben Senator and I looked at banding data we 2:21:43.840 --> 2:21:47.199 recently published Internal of Wildlife Management, and we saw that 2:21:47.360 --> 2:21:51.360 there's a twenty five percent emigration rate, so leaving the 2:21:51.400 --> 2:21:55.000 Atlantic flywight on the US side into the Mississippi. So 2:21:55.080 --> 2:21:57.879 this is one way that things are moving west. And 2:21:57.959 --> 2:22:01.160 so most likely what's happening is those genetics are coming 2:22:01.200 --> 2:22:03.840 over their pair bonding with something that goes to the prairies, 2:22:03.879 --> 2:22:06.480 and they're moving it into the prairies. And that is 2:22:06.520 --> 2:22:08.480 exactly what we're seeing through time. 2:22:08.440 --> 2:22:10.840 And that'll Jon Rock Mountain, that'll jump. 2:22:11.800 --> 2:22:15.800 The unfortunate thing is uh so okay, So getting back 2:22:15.840 --> 2:22:17.560 to is this a bad thing? Let me let me 2:22:17.600 --> 2:22:21.640 prevince this. So study between Michael Schumer at Sunni SEF 2:22:21.879 --> 2:22:25.959 and his master student Susannah haligrand Brian Davis out Mississippi 2:22:26.000 --> 2:22:28.840 State Ariol Fournier with Forged Biological Station. 2:22:29.240 --> 2:22:33.760 This is very generous someone receiving an OSCAR. 2:22:34.879 --> 2:22:39.280 I want to thank everybody, as well as California Waterfowl 2:22:39.280 --> 2:22:41.640 Association with Caroline Brady and Brian Huber. 2:22:42.480 --> 2:22:45.000 All right, I got all those out. Uh, So we 2:22:45.080 --> 2:22:45.760 did a study. 2:22:45.760 --> 2:22:48.640 We want to We can't be like, well what I did, yeah, 2:22:48.520 --> 2:22:51.880 Ahi on this silver tower by myself. 2:22:52.640 --> 2:22:54.280 No, No, that's not how I work. I'm like, we 2:22:54.320 --> 2:22:56.800 got to get this, you know study. I almost said, 2:22:56.840 --> 2:23:01.360 you know, the stuff done, and I work by bringing 2:23:01.360 --> 2:23:02.920 in the people who know how to do it quickly. 2:23:02.959 --> 2:23:04.120 And that's what I do, you know. 2:23:05.200 --> 2:23:06.600 So anyways, so. 2:23:07.120 --> 2:23:11.439 We're like, okay, we need to get wild strain birds 2:23:11.680 --> 2:23:15.040 and game farm birds into captivity to test. Like the 2:23:15.080 --> 2:23:18.880 first thing that we started seeing is their bill and 2:23:18.920 --> 2:23:21.840 we're like, this bill on this game farm mallard sure 2:23:21.879 --> 2:23:25.280 looks like it's better at pecking than it is at straining. 2:23:25.879 --> 2:23:29.160 So we had a hypothesis that in captivity where you 2:23:29.360 --> 2:23:33.280 throw grains out, potentially over in the last four hundred years, 2:23:33.280 --> 2:23:36.120 we've been selecting for things that can a run over 2:23:36.160 --> 2:23:39.920 to that and be peck at it. And so We're like, 2:23:39.920 --> 2:23:41.840 all right, let's see what this looks like. So we 2:23:41.920 --> 2:23:44.680 got birds out of California. And this gets back to 2:23:44.720 --> 2:23:47.200 your comment about going west, and I'm like, oh, for 2:23:47.320 --> 2:23:50.800 sure those are wild birds, and lo and behold there's 2:23:50.800 --> 2:23:54.880 game far mallards there. Somebody's releasing them in California. Unfortunate. 2:23:55.040 --> 2:23:56.199 Really didn't see that coming. 2:23:57.440 --> 2:23:59.480 So I called up some friends and they're like, yeah, 2:23:59.520 --> 2:24:00.240 there's some people. 2:24:00.560 --> 2:24:03.680 I don't know who they really, So now I'm gonna 2:24:03.680 --> 2:24:05.600 have to send my wife back to California. 2:24:07.160 --> 2:24:09.959 Anyways, so we brought these in captivity. 2:24:10.000 --> 2:24:13.119 We genetically vetted everyone, meaning we did you know, ancestry 2:24:13.120 --> 2:24:16.279 dot com on everybody knew everybody, Okay, these are hybrids, 2:24:16.280 --> 2:24:19.320 these are wild these are the game farms. On top 2:24:19.360 --> 2:24:21.119 of it, we got game by doing this. We got 2:24:21.120 --> 2:24:25.120 game farms from like other states, everybody, same exact genetic signature, 2:24:25.360 --> 2:24:30.119 still old world Eurasian signature, right, still from over there. 2:24:30.920 --> 2:24:33.119 So we brought them in and what we were doing 2:24:33.160 --> 2:24:38.080 were these feeding trials. And what we would do is 2:24:38.120 --> 2:24:40.920 we would take the individual and we would we would 2:24:40.959 --> 2:24:45.240 give them a food wild seats, what they would actually 2:24:45.280 --> 2:24:48.280 eat in the wild, in a bowl, and we would 2:24:48.280 --> 2:24:50.560 force them to strain it right, and then we would 2:24:50.640 --> 2:24:54.120 see how much food was left over so much time. 2:24:56.959 --> 2:24:59.880 To the crux of it, we found that game f 2:25:00.120 --> 2:25:06.760 arm mallards are fifty percent inefficient in eating wild seeds 2:25:06.800 --> 2:25:09.119 straining wild seeds as a wild mallard, and the worst 2:25:09.160 --> 2:25:12.440 of them were female game farm mallards. So that means 2:25:12.560 --> 2:25:15.040 in the wild you can extrapolate this too, they need 2:25:15.080 --> 2:25:17.120 twice as much food and twice as much time to 2:25:17.120 --> 2:25:21.800 get the same calories on top of it. Anecdotally, because 2:25:21.800 --> 2:25:24.800 we were just watching this, you could go into a 2:25:24.840 --> 2:25:27.520 cage and be like, that's a game farm female, because 2:25:27.560 --> 2:25:30.119 what would happen is every day there'd just be eggs 2:25:30.400 --> 2:25:34.959 randomly placed places. At times she would make a nest, 2:25:35.040 --> 2:25:38.119 but it would be like half made right, So like 2:25:38.600 --> 2:25:42.640 she's not she has been transformed to be a chicken, 2:25:43.440 --> 2:25:46.760 because in domestic settings you don't want them to nest. 2:25:46.920 --> 2:25:48.680 You want them to just poop eggs out and you 2:25:48.680 --> 2:25:52.480 put them into your incubators. Wild bird, you knew exactly 2:25:52.560 --> 2:25:54.560 what it is. The nest is there. There's almost never 2:25:54.600 --> 2:25:58.680 an egg because they're stressed out right. So anyway, so 2:25:59.040 --> 2:26:04.080 now we have this this association of genetics, morphology, and 2:26:04.160 --> 2:26:08.480 now it's causing issues on their ability to feed. On 2:26:08.560 --> 2:26:11.160 top of all this, what we found out is what's 2:26:11.240 --> 2:26:14.200 happened is they actually have made these things flightier. So 2:26:14.520 --> 2:26:19.560 you have a a mallard about the same length, but 2:26:19.640 --> 2:26:23.080 the wings are shorter, the legs are longer, so they 2:26:23.200 --> 2:26:26.520 run faster. Or that's that when you see the tarsis 2:26:26.640 --> 2:26:29.120 get longer. It's it's what you see in island species 2:26:29.160 --> 2:26:33.359 where they're become more terrestrial, more time on the ground exactly, 2:26:33.480 --> 2:26:35.720 and so but the wings are shorter. That was an 2:26:35.720 --> 2:26:39.480 interesting one because I had to go to our aeronautics team. 2:26:39.520 --> 2:26:40.600 I was like, what does this do? 2:26:40.720 --> 2:26:42.920 And they're like, oh, you took a jumbo jet and 2:26:42.959 --> 2:26:45.400 you put fighter wings on it. You created you made 2:26:45.400 --> 2:26:50.720 it flightier. So these things can maneuver at faster rates. 2:26:50.800 --> 2:26:54.400 But here's the kicker. When we finished our feeding trials, 2:26:54.440 --> 2:26:57.560 we put them back on purina chow to get them fat, 2:26:58.440 --> 2:27:04.000 and the hybrids puriana child so a high protein diet 2:27:04.000 --> 2:27:05.840 to get them back to fat because we wanted to 2:27:05.879 --> 2:27:09.320 know what they would what they would do, and anything 2:27:09.360 --> 2:27:11.840 that had thirty percent more game farm or just straight 2:27:11.920 --> 2:27:16.720 up game farm almost never put fat on. They just 2:27:16.800 --> 2:27:19.200 stayed the same. So they're like a seven nine hundred 2:27:19.240 --> 2:27:22.480 grand bird, whereas a wild mallard at full fat, you're 2:27:22.480 --> 2:27:24.560 looking at nine hundred to twelve hundred grand. 2:27:24.720 --> 2:27:26.600 They're not getting properly geared up for. 2:27:26.680 --> 2:27:31.040 It, and that's physiologically. They do not put fat on. 2:27:31.200 --> 2:27:35.160 It seems again anecdotally just because of what we've done 2:27:35.520 --> 2:27:38.040 game wild mallards. You put them on Purian chown in 2:27:38.080 --> 2:27:41.000 four days, they're like twelve hundred grands. Right, they're putting 2:27:41.000 --> 2:27:43.240 that fat on just as you would expect. So now 2:27:43.320 --> 2:27:46.160 let's put all this into a winter situation in Michigan. 2:27:46.640 --> 2:27:48.560 A freak storm comes in. You got a bird with 2:27:48.600 --> 2:27:52.320 no fuel, shorter wings, that can fly fast, but can't 2:27:52.360 --> 2:27:58.480 migrate far and would have to refuel almost every stop. Right, 2:27:58.800 --> 2:28:01.160 that's a bad thing. So now going back to the 2:28:01.200 --> 2:28:05.320 telemetry units, what did they actually tell us that? So 2:28:05.440 --> 2:28:09.280 not only are these females we've had females with thirty 2:28:09.280 --> 2:28:12.520 percent or more game farm in them, they had a 2:28:12.560 --> 2:28:17.080 statistically significant I'm pretty sure I'm saying this, okay, statistically 2:28:17.080 --> 2:28:26.320 significant abandonment of nest, statistically significant tied to urbanization, and 2:28:26.400 --> 2:28:28.720 they were the ones that are doing the random walk. 2:28:28.879 --> 2:28:32.039 And that's and when we looked at stopover rates, they 2:28:32.040 --> 2:28:35.640 had statistically significantly higher rates of stopover. These things are 2:28:35.680 --> 2:28:39.640 burning fuel and as they hop scotch across the country, 2:28:39.680 --> 2:28:41.039 so they can't go very far. 2:28:41.040 --> 2:28:45.520 So the city almost that's that's the random walk. 2:28:45.640 --> 2:28:46.959 That's why they come back. 2:28:47.200 --> 2:28:49.119 Yeah, they're like, oh, I gotta go back to bread. 2:28:49.240 --> 2:28:54.360 Bread lady, you know, like refuel except bread gives ducks 2:28:54.440 --> 2:28:57.040 angel wings, So don't give them bread. They actually are 2:28:57.160 --> 2:28:58.640 killing them by giving them bread. 2:28:58.879 --> 2:29:02.440 Really. Yeah, so if they had just done one of 2:29:02.480 --> 2:29:04.959 these introductions fifty years ago. 2:29:06.040 --> 2:29:07.959 It would have been swamped out by the wild. 2:29:07.760 --> 2:29:09.880 Because of all these problems. Yeah, what's the fact that 2:29:09.920 --> 2:29:11.760 you're just doing it and doing it and doing it 2:29:11.800 --> 2:29:13.360 and doing it, and once it's in there, it doesn't 2:29:13.400 --> 2:29:13.800 go away. 2:29:14.120 --> 2:29:19.160 That's that's the New Zealand situation, where you had inundation, 2:29:19.480 --> 2:29:22.759 you put these things out there and then you like, let's. 2:29:22.360 --> 2:29:24.120 See what mother nature basically would do. 2:29:24.360 --> 2:29:28.320 Yeah, and obviously they but again an interesting situation. It's 2:29:28.320 --> 2:29:34.199 an islands island ecosystem. There are there there aren't needs 2:29:34.200 --> 2:29:40.200 for migration because you know, seasonality isn't the same, no predators, 2:29:40.240 --> 2:29:42.640 all these It's it's sort of like a perfect situation. 2:29:43.760 --> 2:29:46.440 It's not this like complex web of all these correct 2:29:46.560 --> 2:29:50.800 intercontinental migration parallel migration paths, you know. 2:29:51.120 --> 2:29:54.920 Exactly and so so yeah, So what we know now 2:29:55.040 --> 2:30:00.000 is that at minimum there are physiological morphological which means 2:30:00.200 --> 2:30:04.560 like their bill, their body, all this stuff, and they're physiological. 2:30:04.640 --> 2:30:05.080 I forgot. 2:30:05.240 --> 2:30:08.000 So when we started seeing some of this uh this 2:30:08.240 --> 2:30:12.240 uh changes in migration. We I have a master student 2:30:12.959 --> 2:30:18.480 uh uh Nico who's working on getting muscle fibers off 2:30:18.520 --> 2:30:22.400 of the ducks of these different genetic heritage. Looking at 2:30:23.440 --> 2:30:27.040 I might get this wrongick quick twitch or slow twitch 2:30:27.200 --> 2:30:31.800 muscle fibers, So you would want quick twitch for faster movement, 2:30:31.959 --> 2:30:36.480 slow twitch for that elongated migration pattern is the hypothesis, 2:30:36.720 --> 2:30:39.560 and we're seeing exactly that that these birds have higher 2:30:40.720 --> 2:30:45.000 proportions of quick twitch as compared to or fast twitch 2:30:45.120 --> 2:30:49.800 versus slow twitch. That's it more slow twitch or sorry, 2:30:50.080 --> 2:30:52.360 more fast twitch in the game for our mallards as 2:30:52.400 --> 2:30:55.600 compared to the slow twitch in wild Mallards are doing 2:30:55.640 --> 2:30:59.400 these my long distance migration and able to make these 2:30:59.440 --> 2:31:00.000 long distances. 2:31:00.400 --> 2:31:02.240 So basically what this game farm mallard. 2:31:02.040 --> 2:31:08.720 Is is a fighter jet that goes really fast short bursts. Uh, 2:31:08.760 --> 2:31:10.200 and that's about it. 2:31:10.280 --> 2:31:12.400 That's but that's what we bredd it for, right. 2:31:12.520 --> 2:31:15.720 That, unintentionally or intentionally, we got what we wanted. 2:31:16.200 --> 2:31:18.120 Yeah, I have a question for you. 2:31:18.600 --> 2:31:22.840 So when I hear this, this is from my perspective, 2:31:22.840 --> 2:31:26.440 it sounds a little doom and gloom, right, like we're screwed. 2:31:27.560 --> 2:31:30.200 My question is, with all of this data that you 2:31:30.240 --> 2:31:33.720 have right now, is there legislation in place or being 2:31:33.800 --> 2:31:39.560 pushed to stop game farm releases? And even if they did, 2:31:39.720 --> 2:31:41.440 let's just say, you know, you're king of the world. 2:31:41.440 --> 2:31:44.000 You waved one. There's not another game farm bird released 2:31:44.280 --> 2:31:45.560 in North America today? 2:31:46.600 --> 2:31:47.840 Are we screwed? Like? 2:31:48.040 --> 2:31:52.240 Is this going to eventually be fully bled out as 2:31:52.240 --> 2:31:54.440 it gets into the West and other regions of the country. 2:31:54.800 --> 2:32:00.920 I got a solution, good, it's Brady's point. If it was, 2:32:01.080 --> 2:32:05.240 if the new ones were to end, I mean, can 2:32:05.320 --> 2:32:09.760 you start bringing ones from the West and yeah, cutting 2:32:09.800 --> 2:32:10.760 them back loose. 2:32:11.480 --> 2:32:13.560 Right, I mean, that's that's what it looks like, right 2:32:13.600 --> 2:32:16.840 if they're eventually if they're so weak that they're not 2:32:16.840 --> 2:32:18.960 going to be able to withstand the winters and they're 2:32:19.000 --> 2:32:22.039 not putting on the fat et cetera. I'm just curious, 2:32:22.080 --> 2:32:26.680 like forward face, forward looking, what's the play here? 2:32:27.640 --> 2:32:29.600 That's a great question. More data. 2:32:29.959 --> 2:32:31.680 He's not policy guys. 2:32:31.920 --> 2:32:35.760 That's right, those kinds of questions. 2:32:35.800 --> 2:32:38.000 What are the policy guys think about it? Are interested? 2:32:38.120 --> 2:32:41.440 I am not allowed to come, so I do not comment. 2:32:41.560 --> 2:32:43.000 I don't know about the Atlantic FLA. 2:32:43.200 --> 2:32:44.800 I don't give me the you don't comment on. 2:32:44.760 --> 2:32:47.960 The Mississippi Flyway has reached out. They are they are 2:32:47.959 --> 2:32:50.240 supposed to be putting a comment out being like we 2:32:50.360 --> 2:32:51.720 do not support this, I believe. 2:32:55.480 --> 2:32:59.920 Yeah, I don't know what about the U, S. 2:33:00.080 --> 2:33:00.360 G S. 2:33:00.520 --> 2:33:03.600 I feel like you're pleading the fifth right now? Uh? Yeah, 2:33:03.640 --> 2:33:04.360 it definitely is. 2:33:04.640 --> 2:33:06.920 Okay. Let's say you had let's say you said no, 2:33:06.920 --> 2:33:11.400 no on it. Uh, let's say you said exactly what 2:33:11.440 --> 2:33:13.360 you think? What would what bad? What would happen to you? 2:33:13.480 --> 2:33:14.960 It was bad? All right? 2:33:15.200 --> 2:33:17.199 So like everybody. 2:33:18.800 --> 2:33:21.160 The question, Yeah, the Flyways asked me if if this 2:33:21.240 --> 2:33:23.080 is going to be like, how do you know if 2:33:23.120 --> 2:33:25.600 it's going to be bad? I won't know until it happens, 2:33:25.760 --> 2:33:27.760 but we can easily go back and ask, well, what 2:33:27.879 --> 2:33:30.600 happened with all the fisheries and u quail releases and 2:33:31.240 --> 2:33:34.959 pheasants and anything else we've tried to release with captive 2:33:35.000 --> 2:33:37.440 bread birds that have been domesticated for a while. 2:33:37.520 --> 2:33:39.519 Like the track record's not great, not great. 2:33:39.600 --> 2:33:45.280 Not great, And all of those signatures are popping up, 2:33:46.040 --> 2:33:48.280 not just here, but like we can just look at 2:33:48.280 --> 2:33:50.680 what's happening in Europe, right, So, so France is releasing 2:33:50.720 --> 2:33:53.120 a few million birds just to have a fall flight. 2:33:53.520 --> 2:33:55.000 You know that. 2:33:55.000 --> 2:33:58.520 That's and they have complex ecologies, right, they have my 2:33:58.680 --> 2:34:02.920 needs for migration. They have seasonality very similar to us. 2:34:03.400 --> 2:34:08.400 So given the situation there and the constant inundation, the 2:34:08.959 --> 2:34:17.640 probability of the same situation happening is high. 2:34:16.280 --> 2:34:18.440 Really close to beyond at a time. 2:34:19.360 --> 2:34:21.440 All right, sorry, I feel like we could talk about 2:34:21.440 --> 2:34:22.360 this for five more hours. 2:34:22.480 --> 2:34:25.920 Yeah, who you worked for the university? I did? Okay. 2:34:26.040 --> 2:34:28.119 We had a USGS guy on a long time ago 2:34:28.160 --> 2:34:31.240 about grizzly bear. His job was to count. His job 2:34:31.280 --> 2:34:33.560 was to tell people how many bears are there. But 2:34:33.600 --> 2:34:34.920 he's like, my job is not to tell you what 2:34:34.959 --> 2:34:37.039 to do about it. I'll tell you how many I 2:34:37.040 --> 2:34:39.720 think are there, but what you do with that is 2:34:39.760 --> 2:34:42.720 your business. You're not held by that. You're a university guy. 2:34:43.560 --> 2:34:46.520 Yeah, but I work with every state and federal agency 2:34:46.600 --> 2:34:49.480 in this country and in Canada, and you know, I 2:34:49.600 --> 2:34:52.120 leave it to them. I provide data and they do 2:34:52.160 --> 2:34:52.600 what they. 2:34:52.440 --> 2:34:55.000 Want with I am. 2:34:55.160 --> 2:34:55.440 I am. 2:34:55.480 --> 2:34:59.880 Oh, then let's let's hear it. What do you really think? 2:35:00.440 --> 2:35:00.640 Yeah? 2:35:04.000 --> 2:35:08.040 So, so people, we gotta right we trivia Pete. 2:35:08.959 --> 2:35:12.039 I've already done trivia with you guys, like right here, 2:35:12.520 --> 2:35:14.440 you did. I asked you a questions, a couple of questions. 2:35:14.480 --> 2:35:18.360 Oh yeah, okay, I think, yeah, what do you do? 2:35:18.440 --> 2:35:21.000 So we have a project in Hawaii. I'll wrap it 2:35:21.080 --> 2:35:24.760 up quickly. Like where we're testing this, can you artificially 2:35:24.840 --> 2:35:27.279 move back a hybrid population towards something different? 2:35:27.360 --> 2:35:28.119 That's what I want to hear. 2:35:28.280 --> 2:35:32.080 Yeah, so in Hawaii, can you were We just got funding, 2:35:32.120 --> 2:35:34.200 although we're two hundred and fifty thousand dollars short. If 2:35:34.320 --> 2:35:37.560 there are any donors on this podcast, please contact me 2:35:37.680 --> 2:35:41.960 at Peele Rescue at utub dot eu. Anyways, so we 2:35:42.120 --> 2:35:45.240 are actually going to try we know exactly the population. 2:35:45.760 --> 2:35:48.400 It's on Awahu. We're going to try to move pure 2:35:48.640 --> 2:35:52.879 Hawaiian ducks into this hybrid population and see generationally, how 2:35:52.920 --> 2:35:55.720 many generations does it take for us to get Hawaiian 2:35:55.760 --> 2:35:58.879 ducks again? So it's kind of like a genetic pseudo 2:35:58.920 --> 2:36:02.240 genetic rescue thing. Our models suggest it's only three or 2:36:02.240 --> 2:36:05.040 four generations, So that's three four breeding events and we'll 2:36:05.040 --> 2:36:08.880 have Hawaiian pure Hawaiian ducks again. If that works, Like 2:36:08.959 --> 2:36:11.680 that's a closed system, right, we control we can control 2:36:11.760 --> 2:36:15.880 so much of that. If that works, then we can 2:36:15.920 --> 2:36:18.560 extrapolate what would we have to do in North America 2:36:18.640 --> 2:36:23.520 to turn the tide. Now, the prey, the significant size 2:36:23.520 --> 2:36:26.760 of the prey pothole population is what is stopping this 2:36:26.879 --> 2:36:31.439 thing from just constantly moving west because it's it's essentially. 2:36:31.240 --> 2:36:32.920 Because you're in a Mallard stronghold. 2:36:33.040 --> 2:36:37.240 Exactly what happened in the East hypothesis Now hopefully i'll 2:36:37.280 --> 2:36:40.760 have data with all the historical stuff, is that there 2:36:40.760 --> 2:36:43.480 weren't that many to begin with, and whatever was there 2:36:43.600 --> 2:36:47.120 you essentially bred out right, and so now it's just 2:36:47.160 --> 2:36:50.920 these hybrid thingies and so, and you're constantly putting it 2:36:50.959 --> 2:36:53.200 in where mother nature can't just be like, all right, 2:36:53.280 --> 2:36:55.440 let's just keep some of this wild in there, yep, 2:36:55.959 --> 2:36:58.320 because you're just constantly pushing it in and so again, 2:36:59.160 --> 2:37:02.040 I don't think it's good in doom the Atlantic Flyway, 2:37:02.080 --> 2:37:05.880 I'm not. You're right, like there's no parental population there. 2:37:05.920 --> 2:37:08.720 You would have to create one, create one. 2:37:09.400 --> 2:37:11.119 I lived in that flyway for a couple of years. 2:37:11.120 --> 2:37:12.760 It felt like doom and gloom when I was there. 2:37:12.840 --> 2:37:14.840 So they're glad to be here now. 2:37:15.080 --> 2:37:18.640 Now you were mentioning the Chesapeake Bay and that those 2:37:18.720 --> 2:37:19.520 ducks are funny. 2:37:19.640 --> 2:37:23.000 Now you know that they are funny there. 2:37:23.320 --> 2:37:26.200 Their behavior, everything about them is just you know, it 2:37:26.879 --> 2:37:30.400 looks like a mallard, but it's a chuaha a dog. 2:37:31.320 --> 2:37:34.520 We're going to close with a role play. We're in 2:37:34.560 --> 2:37:38.360 a hotel bar. I don't know anything about you, yeah, okay, 2:37:39.000 --> 2:37:40.600 and I got no way of finding out about you. 2:37:40.920 --> 2:37:42.879 And I'm just thinking out loud in this hotel bar, 2:37:43.000 --> 2:37:45.800 and I'm like, man, I live in New Jersey. I'm 2:37:45.800 --> 2:37:49.119 thinking about getting into this whole deal of turning game 2:37:49.160 --> 2:37:52.920 farm mallards out. So I like to hunt ducks. You're 2:37:52.920 --> 2:37:55.920 just a stranger. What do you think I ought to do? 2:37:57.720 --> 2:37:59.240 Don't do it, that's what you'd say. 2:37:59.320 --> 2:38:00.960 Yeah, doctor Phil says, don't do it. 2:38:01.000 --> 2:38:03.600 Oh, doctor Phil says, I was giving you anonymity as 2:38:03.720 --> 2:38:08.640 a dude. That yeah, I mean I caught you in 2:38:08.640 --> 2:38:13.080 the traps. Oh god, yeah, I mean here's the thing. 2:38:13.200 --> 2:38:17.320 It's now sort of a pastime right in a lot 2:38:17.320 --> 2:38:19.280 of part of this country. I'm not going to say like, oh, 2:38:19.360 --> 2:38:21.600 let's shut it all down. But what I can say is, 2:38:21.640 --> 2:38:25.480 our maps are our data flow are so at nice 2:38:25.520 --> 2:38:28.920 fine scales that there are management actions that we can have, Like, 2:38:29.120 --> 2:38:32.120 for example, you have a place that is releasing, and 2:38:32.400 --> 2:38:35.000 we can find these hot spots for any state and 2:38:35.040 --> 2:38:38.120 be like, Okay, we're gonna have special seasons in September. 2:38:38.160 --> 2:38:40.640 We're going to allow you to shoot ten Mallards or. 2:38:40.560 --> 2:38:41.160 Whatever it is. 2:38:41.200 --> 2:38:44.240 When you're there, you're just basically trying to push that 2:38:44.400 --> 2:38:48.040 three four percent survival rate to zero of Mallard's coming 2:38:48.080 --> 2:38:48.520 out of there. 2:38:48.560 --> 2:38:49.640 That's what I would suggest. 2:38:49.680 --> 2:38:51.360 You're not going to shut this thing down like it's 2:38:51.360 --> 2:38:53.400 a money maker, Like are you going to really know? 2:38:53.879 --> 2:38:57.560 But there are things that we can do. I think, 2:38:58.480 --> 2:39:01.360 And I think that segues to can we segue to 2:39:01.440 --> 2:39:02.040 duck DNA? 2:39:02.080 --> 2:39:03.480 Now I was gonna. 2:39:04.680 --> 2:39:07.119 Know that's that's the done, But it's an action item 2:39:07.160 --> 2:39:10.000 for duck DNA. Like one minute and then we need it, 2:39:10.000 --> 2:39:11.800 We're gonna still is gonna pull the plug? 2:39:12.400 --> 2:39:19.560 So literally, where's the rights twitch? 2:39:20.080 --> 2:39:24.800 So so yeah, So this is a citizen science project 2:39:25.240 --> 2:39:27.440 that has been in my mind for almost a decade. 2:39:27.840 --> 2:39:31.200 Mike Brazier, uh and I have been talking who's with 2:39:31.280 --> 2:39:34.119 Ducks Unlimited over the last couple of years, and then 2:39:34.200 --> 2:39:36.760 we went forward with this thing called Duck DNA. 2:39:36.879 --> 2:39:40.160 Go to www dot duck dna dot com. 2:39:40.200 --> 2:39:44.080 You got the u r L doug DNA Duck DNA. Congratulations, Yeah, 2:39:44.160 --> 2:39:44.720 well to do you? 2:39:44.840 --> 2:39:48.160 So do you I have to thank Ashley Tunstall, Uh 2:39:48.600 --> 2:39:52.560 Kai Victor do you Communications department, it department and development. 2:39:52.560 --> 2:39:53.240 This is where I play. 2:39:56.520 --> 2:40:00.320 And my crew, Virgie Muncie, Lauren McFarland's Sara Gonzale. They're 2:40:00.360 --> 2:40:03.080 all working right now as we speak to get this 2:40:03.120 --> 2:40:03.600 thing going. 2:40:03.640 --> 2:40:05.359 So this is a everybody. 2:40:05.400 --> 2:40:07.760 Go to duck dna dot com and sign up today 2:40:07.760 --> 2:40:10.760 and you will get a kit with five vials and 2:40:10.800 --> 2:40:12.959 you could put a tongue in that vial and we 2:40:13.040 --> 2:40:15.280 will tell you the ancestry of that duck. We will 2:40:15.320 --> 2:40:17.600 be using it for research purposes, but you will get 2:40:17.600 --> 2:40:24.840 a certificate because congratulations I did. Yeah, we were supposed 2:40:24.879 --> 2:40:25.480 to do it on air. 2:40:29.840 --> 2:40:31.720 I was going to do a show. 2:40:31.760 --> 2:40:33.800 How I even had to take latex gloves out of 2:40:33.840 --> 2:40:37.320 my kill kit, uh because I forgot others. But like, uh, 2:40:37.520 --> 2:40:40.320 so you just put the tongue in there of your 2:40:40.320 --> 2:40:43.000 favorite duck. If you're you know, a little Jimmy, little 2:40:43.040 --> 2:40:44.920 Susie shot their first duck, we can give you the 2:40:44.920 --> 2:40:47.080 ancestry of that. Right now, it's only ducks. Soon we'll 2:40:47.080 --> 2:40:50.240 do all the geese because we're building the data set, 2:40:50.280 --> 2:40:53.080 the reference DATUS, after all those eleven Canada geese and 2:40:53.160 --> 2:40:57.080 all the snow geese and rosses and everybody else. But 2:40:57.200 --> 2:41:00.080 right now it's ducks and primarily mallards, which we're asking 2:41:00.120 --> 2:41:04.560 the hunters out there to become hunter scientists and provide 2:41:04.640 --> 2:41:09.600 their data give us the opportunity to make waterfowl at 2:41:09.640 --> 2:41:12.720 the forefront of wildlife conservation. Nobody's ever tried something like this. 2:41:12.800 --> 2:41:14.880 There's duck hunters all over. I know we're at like 2:41:14.959 --> 2:41:18.320 nine hundred and fifty thousand, but if everybody signs up, 2:41:18.400 --> 2:41:20.800 there's only three hundred. And I want to thank all 2:41:20.840 --> 2:41:23.600 the donors to do you that made this possible free 2:41:23.640 --> 2:41:26.080 this year to sign up free to get your kit. 2:41:26.680 --> 2:41:30.160 Hopefully we have a mass amount of people and interest 2:41:30.520 --> 2:41:33.560 and we will make this hopefully viable into the future. 2:41:33.600 --> 2:41:36.440 But I'm just super excited about it because this has 2:41:36.480 --> 2:41:40.200 been a dream, right, a mass a mass all the 2:41:40.280 --> 2:41:44.560 duck hunters to provide at landscape, landscape and time intervals 2:41:44.600 --> 2:41:47.240 that would be impossible for any researcher to do. 2:41:47.360 --> 2:41:49.600 Right, we would be able to study. 2:41:49.959 --> 2:41:54.200 We are there hotspots of hybridization, you know, pintail, mallard pin, 2:41:54.320 --> 2:41:56.800 you know these types of things as well as obviously 2:41:56.959 --> 2:42:00.280 my interest right now where this came about is adding 2:42:00.560 --> 2:42:05.200 a countrywide sampling of mallards, uh to to get get 2:42:05.240 --> 2:42:07.440 after and get ahead of this question with this whole 2:42:07.440 --> 2:42:09.520 game farm release and what it means to our wild 2:42:09.600 --> 2:42:11.840 North American mallards DNA dot com. 2:42:11.879 --> 2:42:12.320 That's cool. 2:42:12.400 --> 2:42:13.080 Curtain close. 2:42:13.200 --> 2:42:14.960 Thank you to doctor Phil. Thank you to the flying 2:42:15.000 --> 2:42:17.560 be guys. Don't leave it out your vials. 2:42:17.959 --> 2:42:19.760 Oh I'm govern ten of them. 2:42:19.800 --> 2:42:21.320 It takes ten seventy one sign up. 2:42:21.680 --> 2:42:23.840 Yeah, I signed up last night. 2:42:24.040 --> 2:42:24.840 Thank you, doctor Phil. 2:42:25.120 --> 2:42:35.760 Thanks, thank you all. 2:42:32.200 --> 2:42:33.560 Right on. 2:42:39.000 --> 2:42:56.000 Seal Gray shine like silver in the sun right right alone, sweetheart. 2:42:56.920 --> 2:43:02.160 We don't beat this, damn of course, taking a new 2:43:02.200 --> 2:43:10.360 one and ride away. We're done beat this damn Parsiday, 2:43:12.080 --> 2:43:14.960 so take a new one and ride on. 2:43:24.080 --> 2:43:24.120 H