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Speaker 1: If this is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listeningast, you can't predict.

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Speaker 2: Anything presented by First Light creating proven versatile hunting apparel

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Speaker 2: from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear. For every hunt,

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Speaker 2: first Light, Go Farther, stay longer. Is it on Phil

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Speaker 2: Machines on?

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Speaker 3: Do you want to put your headphones on?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: You don't have to suggestion?

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Speaker 5: Okay, good, definitely got to hit Phil's upcoming show.

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Speaker 6: We already you mention that it's in here.

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Speaker 2: I gotta I'm gonna give I'm gonna give Cren a

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Speaker 2: comment sandwich. Okay you ready? You guys know what a

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Speaker 2: comment sandwich is. If you need to critique someone, right,

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Speaker 2: you don't come in and critique them bad's in the medal.

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Speaker 2: You come in and say something good, then you say

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Speaker 2: the thing you're trying to get across, and then you

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Speaker 2: end on something good. So uh, Crinnell is great that

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Speaker 2: you got that red stag in Scotland. See thanks. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: you can do what's called the open face sandwich anywhere

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Speaker 2: you don't end it with the comments. So there and

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Speaker 2: then now I'm gonna go crindas. The notes today are

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Speaker 2: it's like eight hours worth of material sloppily arranged. And

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Speaker 2: then you so you got that, and then I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: go on, God, you look great today, Krin.

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Speaker 7: It's a true.

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Speaker 8: Okay, well we can cut out of you can cut

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Speaker 8: out of fair bit.

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Speaker 2: You try a new soap. She bought a new kind

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Speaker 2: of so open in Scotland. Did you have fun in Scotland?

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Speaker 2: For real?

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Speaker 4: Had a fantastic time like it? It was, it was wonderful.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the hunting process is obviously a bit different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, deers are like for sale in some market. Ye's

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Speaker 2: eating your deer like that he bought at the store.

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Speaker 8: That's or like dog food.

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Speaker 4: But but yeah, I mean the government, the Scottish government

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Speaker 4: tells an a state how much I mean, it determines

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Speaker 4: how many animals on its property need to be called.

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Speaker 4: And then you're you know, so there's a professional stalker

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Speaker 4: at each estate and that's their duty to carry out

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Speaker 4: what's required. And then if you're there hunting it, you're

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Speaker 4: kind of helping to you know, fulfill fulfill the aim.

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Speaker 4: And and each animal is then sold to a a

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Speaker 4: game dealer. And I was told that it's like sold

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Speaker 4: with the coat on and the head off.

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Speaker 2: When you guys got it, did you you gutted it

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Speaker 2: from the diaphragm back right? Yes, which they got a

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Speaker 2: weird sounding name for like glat glock.

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Speaker 4: I don't I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember the

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Speaker 4: name of it, but they didn't. Yeah, they did it

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Speaker 4: a different way.

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Speaker 2: Look that up, Yanni, I type in something like Scottish,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, gutting, gutting method, diaphragm. I'll get you started.

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Speaker 6: Was it a drive hunt? Was it like driven or

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Speaker 6: were you stocking?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, ladies and gentlemen. That was voice of Phil Lovretzky,

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Speaker 2: Russian born researcher who has a University of Texas at

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Speaker 2: El Passel. Krinn has pointed out, you have a whole

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Speaker 2: lab named after you. Sure explain what you guys do.

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Speaker 2: You're here to talk about mailard ducks and some real problems.

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Speaker 2: We are real problems. So yeah, no, yeah, I run

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Speaker 2: a wildlife genetics lab. While we focus on ducks. You know,

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Speaker 2: our whole stick is feel to gene We are right now.

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Speaker 6: I have Cruise in Arizona catching Mexican ducks, and other

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Speaker 6: crews in Texas catching model ducks, and we do everything

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Speaker 6: from catching, banding, telemetry work all the way to population genetics, evolution,

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Speaker 6: these types of things. And basically the difference or the

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Speaker 6: big thing about us is we use genetics to identify

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Speaker 6: individuals correctly, so we have no you know, you can't

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Speaker 6: run away from your genetics.

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Speaker 7: It is what it is.

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Speaker 6: So by understanding who we're working with, we can matter.

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Speaker 2: Who has in critters creators. Now this is all just

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Speaker 2: a prey lude to her answering the question, but I

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Speaker 2: just wanted to people know who they were here and talking.

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Speaker 6: Who it is the foundation? Yeah, so our foundation is genetics,

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Speaker 6: and then we explore everything from migration to morphology, how

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Speaker 6: hybridization causes issues if so if not, how releases feral

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Speaker 6: populations in New Zealand here in North America, Europe, How

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Speaker 6: are they establishing, why did they established, and how they

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Speaker 6: look like compared to the things that they came from.

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Speaker 2: God, we're gonna get into that head yeah, real heavy

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Speaker 2: kring go on though.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, So the animal is sold in full coat

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Speaker 4: to a game dealer, and then that game dealer turns

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Speaker 4: it around again and sells it to a butcher, which.

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Speaker 2: You guys, cut it off at the knees right when

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Speaker 2: I was there, they did. They got it diaphragm back,

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Speaker 2: cut it off at the knees and out the door.

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Speaker 4: So diaphragm and guts were cut out, left for the

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Speaker 4: eagles and then everything. We drug out the animal for

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Speaker 4: a little bit and met horses and then we threw it.

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Speaker 4: Oh you know, head comes off, but nothing was cut

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Speaker 4: off at the knees. It came all the way down.

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Speaker 6: Back to the horse on a horse.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: They come out with horses and one one horse like

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Speaker 4: holds the head or that's kind of like the horse

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Speaker 4: in training that eventually might have the body of the

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Speaker 4: animal on it, and you walk it down.

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Speaker 2: On a horse. How made you guys?

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Speaker 4: Shoot Morgan Morgan Potter who's been on the show before

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Speaker 4: he got to I got one, and our friend David

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Speaker 4: who invited us, got one.

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Speaker 2: Are they gonna do? You get to send the head

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Speaker 2: home and keep it?

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Speaker 4: I've got the antlers, uh somewhere in the mail on

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Speaker 4: their way over to Bozeman.

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Speaker 2: With the skull cap or you just saw them all

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Speaker 2: so they.

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Speaker 4: It's kinda yeah, skull cap like kind of like a

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Speaker 4: yamica where.

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Speaker 2: That there you go yeah, yeah, I'm dragging. Yeah, phill's draggon.

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Speaker 8: I don't know what you call that, but that's.

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Speaker 2: A skull cap.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 2: As if you cut a little deep around your yamica.

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Speaker 4: Like slices the eye sockets in the middle to it's

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Speaker 4: not it's not like just tight around them, that.

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Speaker 2: Saves you a lot of cutting. Yeah. When you when

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Speaker 2: you get the eye sockets into your cut.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it also makes for a nice flush mount.

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Speaker 6: To the wall.

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Speaker 8: And that is right.

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Speaker 2: It's uh years ago. We were hunting Alabama in Tuskegee

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Speaker 2: National Forest and I killed a little teeny spike horn

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Speaker 2: that had you know, inch and a half spikes. And

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Speaker 2: when I scull capped the might just cut this super

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Speaker 2: narrow strip of bone to connect the two little spikes.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not joking. I went home. I flew home

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Speaker 2: with his rack and my shirt pocket. Probably I could

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Speaker 2: pull it out of my shirt pocket. Man, holy cow. Man.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, we got so much talk about we're.

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Speaker 4: Gonna let's not make the show like two hours and

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Speaker 4: a half. Let's like maybe cut a thing out you want,

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Speaker 4: you can, we can cut the non waterfowl stuff out.

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Speaker 2: Listen. Let me just let me take a look here.

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Speaker 2: The Flying V guys are here. Introduce yourself, boys, Brady

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Speaker 2: who goes first?

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Speaker 3: Matt McCormick here, yep, Living Bozeman.

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Speaker 2: My partner, Brady yep, Brady Davis.

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Speaker 9: I also live here in town Flying THEE. Matt and

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Speaker 9: I have a couple of companies called Flying Thee. This

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Speaker 9: year is gonna be really fun. We're going to be

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Speaker 9: doing a bunch of waterfowl content with Meat Eater and

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Speaker 9: for meat Eater, so we're super pumped about that.

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Speaker 2: And you guys manage land.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, we've got another business where we do land and

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Speaker 9: ranch management. So we do you know, habitat construction, restoration

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Speaker 9: and management.

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Speaker 2: And so yeah, these guys like the Army Corps of Engineers. Man,

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Speaker 2: I went on these guys in terms of like waterfowl

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Speaker 2: Habitat's impressive.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and then waterfowl is the primary focus. Ducks,

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Speaker 3: you know around here, ducks are a primary focus for us.

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Speaker 3: But there's inherently some elk stuff and some deer stuff

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Speaker 3: and some upland stuff that kind of comes along with it.

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Speaker 3: Excited to be here, talk a little bit more with

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Speaker 3: with you, Phil, But yeah, it's development and restoration man.

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Speaker 3: And it's for the greater good, you know, providing food safety,

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Speaker 3: nesting habitat all that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of lends work you guys get involved in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we have to work with the Army Corps

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Speaker 3: of Engineers and a lot of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Because I know, I was just making a joke, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean when you.

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Speaker 3: When you start doing stuff like this, there's natural wetlands

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Speaker 3: and everything. I mean, they got to come out and

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Speaker 3: they'll they'll bring a big roll of red flags and

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Speaker 3: they'll put it all over the property and say you

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Speaker 3: cannot touch this. I mean all the way across the board.

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Speaker 3: You can't. You cannot mess with it.

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Speaker 2: You can add to it, but not mess with it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you take some you have to give

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Speaker 3: some back. But they have parameters around that. There's a

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Speaker 3: bunch of permitting and everything. But you know, the state

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Speaker 3: of Montana, they they love trout, so you kind of

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Speaker 3: lean on the trout thing and trout then everything that

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Speaker 3: a trout loves, the duck loves too.

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Speaker 2: So so you know how to game it. Yeah, you

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Speaker 2: have to game and are going to love it.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, it's really fascinating. I mean it's the

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Speaker 3: it's the same. It's the same answer but a different question, right,

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Speaker 3: what's good for the trout? What's good for the duck?

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Speaker 3: But it's the same answer.

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Speaker 2: And then you guys, that's good that aligns. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you guys gave up on like basically most kinds of

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Speaker 2: hunting just to focus on ducks over the years.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, it's it's funny. We both grew up

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Speaker 9: doing all kinds of hunting. Matt grew up waterfowl hunting

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Speaker 9: when he was young.

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Speaker 2: I did not. I got into waterfowl hunting in my

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Speaker 2: early twenties because you're from the arid West. Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, when I got into it in my early twenties.

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Speaker 9: The problem is, once I got into it.

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Speaker 2: It was over, no looking back.

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Speaker 7: The very first day I had some decoys called in

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Speaker 7: a few geese.

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Speaker 2: I remember you told me about that.

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Speaker 9: And the day those geese died, I walked into the

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Speaker 9: house I was a newlywed, told my wife, I'm like

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Speaker 9: game over.

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Speaker 2: I had I had hounds.

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Speaker 9: I was hunting lions and bears and stuff with dogs,

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Speaker 9: and those dogs got sold.

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Speaker 2: Next thing, you know, I had a labrador and.

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Speaker 9: More decoys and more decoys, and if you ask my

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Speaker 9: wife more decoys.

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Speaker 2: Well, surprise, those line dogs didn't team up and kill

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Speaker 2: that lab out of spike.

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Speaker 7: I moved them out of the asylum before the next

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Speaker 7: inmate came in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, this sun bitch is gonna be trouble. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Now I had a question, Now, do you guys go

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Speaker 6: after knockout grants? Is that how you guys do a

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Speaker 6: lot of the habitat work?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is some. There is some of that, and

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Speaker 3: we and we work with a couple of different consultant

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Speaker 3: agencies that just focus on permitting, right because you need

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Speaker 3: you need people that can read the fine print. And

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, we're looking to do

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Speaker 3: macro you know, macro restoration, and so a lot of

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Speaker 3: those guys are handling the the the details of that.

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Speaker 3: But yes, to your to your.

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Speaker 2: Question, there are some of that.

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Speaker 9: We also a lot of our clients are people who

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Speaker 9: purchased the land for the purpose of hunting, so they

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Speaker 9: are willing to invest more money and you know, they're

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Speaker 9: they're they're good to put the money in for the

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Speaker 9: end result.

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Speaker 2: And so at the end of the day, what.

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Speaker 9: We care about is that the birds are there and

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Speaker 9: that the habitat supports holding the birds, not just having

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Speaker 9: them there for a shooter or for a hunt. And

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Speaker 9: so we're looking at everything from Okay, how do we

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Speaker 9: get them here? But then how do we hold them

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Speaker 9: and maintain and keep them there? So you know, the

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Speaker 9: wetland stuff is a big part of it, but we

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Speaker 9: also do a ton of farming, you know, planning, consulting

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Speaker 9: which crops go in the layout on the property, where

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Speaker 9: the corn needs to go in, the spring weight and

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Speaker 9: the barley and the peas, and how all that lays

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Speaker 9: out on the property.

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Speaker 7: And in reference to the water sources as well.

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Speaker 2: Ohuld maybe have you guys take a look at my

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Speaker 2: pumpkin patch.

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Speaker 7: We're here, We're enough to I've never done anything with pumpkins.

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Speaker 2: Pumpkins and I want up with just two. But we

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Speaker 2: can talk about it later. I got three kids, so

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Speaker 2: this is not going over the well. Yeah, I'm stick

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Speaker 2: of doing it. Plug the me Eater Live Show. Let

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Speaker 2: me hear you just tear it up.

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Speaker 7: With no notes.

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Speaker 5: No here here, there's no notes in this documentary Like.

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Speaker 2: It just didn't do a very good job of producing.

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Speaker 4: I didn't want to spend seventeen minutes on us talking about.

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Speaker 2: All is going to do it for speed version.

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Speaker 5: If you're looking for something really fun to do in

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Speaker 5: December and uh, you live somewhere between Colorado and Philly,

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Speaker 5: your luck because meteor.

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Speaker 2: Is you know, so it makes like a little line

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Speaker 2: across the country.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 5: And I know a lot of people are upset from

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Speaker 5: the South, Southeast, Texas, other parts of the country because

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Speaker 5: they're like, what about us, And we only have so

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Speaker 5: much time in our lives.

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Speaker 2: And when the pandemic curry you got keep in track

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Speaker 2: how long we talk about this before the pandemic. We

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Speaker 2: were going out the other direction, but it all got

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Speaker 2: canceled because of the pandemic.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And we have hit you know, states and cities

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Speaker 5: all over the country in the past, and I think

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Speaker 5: that in future versions of this, we probably will hit

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Speaker 5: the South and we'll hit the West coast. But this

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Speaker 5: time around, we're in Denver, Kansas City, Missouri, Davenport, Iowa, Kalamazoo, Michigan, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Ohio, Pittsburgh, PA,

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Speaker 5: and Philly, PA. So all VIP tickets are already sold out,

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Speaker 5: but there are general admission tickets left. Come and see us,

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Speaker 5: go to the mediator dot com. If you want to

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Speaker 5: see the dates that we'll be at each one of those,

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Speaker 5: it's roughly December sixth through the December fifteenth.

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Speaker 2: A lot of great guests lined up. We've got guests

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Speaker 2: lined up all or damn place. Kevin Murphy's coming out.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna have We're gonna have Wolf, You're gonna have

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Speaker 2: We're gonna have a casting contest at every show in

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Speaker 2: order to win a seat at the trivia table. How

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Speaker 2: long was that? Kran good? M hm, thanks you loving

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Speaker 2: that is great. Phil over to Phil speaking of the live show,

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Speaker 2: Take it away, Phil.

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Speaker 10: I, okay, yeah, very very generous. I think this is

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Speaker 10: the third time we've talked about this local community theater

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Speaker 10: thing I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: Bill is the Thespian.

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Speaker 10: This one's for all you and Michigan. Come on out,

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Speaker 10: uh Yellen Theater October twentieth doing a show. It's a

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Speaker 10: nineteen thirty screwball comedy called you Can't Take It with

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Speaker 10: You Jo, Phil, just one, oh no, We're doing six

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Speaker 10: or seven shows. It's two weekends, two weekends, long starts.

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Speaker 10: The twentieth goes through the twenty ninth.

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Speaker 7: Okay, yep, still tickets available.

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Speaker 2: There are still some tickets available. Yes, okay, dude. I

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Speaker 2: went to a live show the other night and it

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Speaker 2: was my one of my favorite bands, but probably the

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Speaker 2: worst show I've ever seen, Brian Johnstown Mass And I

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Speaker 2: didn't mean to stay. I told my wife I had

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Speaker 2: a bunch of friends, not a bunch.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I went down to a bunch of friends and I said, listen,

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Speaker 2: I want to have my own car because I'm not staying.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to have a look like I don't

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Speaker 2: like you know, I'm gonna have a look, and I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna go home. So if you want to stay, drive separate.

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Speaker 2: But we all left at the same time early. This

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Speaker 2: is a horrible job. Wow. But he said something that's

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Speaker 2: been keep me up at night. He said, it's good

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Speaker 2: to be back in this part of the country that

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Speaker 2: I love so well that teeters between rugged individualism and

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Speaker 2: common sense. Please don't let it tip too far? Now?

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Speaker 3: Is that why you left early?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 2: But was keep me up at night? Is what way?

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Speaker 2: Does he mean that it's tipping? Which is a good way?

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Speaker 9: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like tip, like you know you could read it

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Speaker 2: that he doesn't think it should tip too far. In

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Speaker 2: either direction because it teeters on the edge or he

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Speaker 2: feels that it's tipping.

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Speaker 10: Well, the term common sense has scent of connotation. I

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Speaker 10: would say, so, my my gut would be he's saying

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Speaker 10: it's tipping too far towards rugged individualism.

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Speaker 2: He's saying that's not keep me up tonight. Maybe I

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Speaker 2: wasn't even in the talking points.

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Speaker 5: Maybe he's trying to say that he would like us

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Speaker 5: to keep that balance and that we should just hold

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Speaker 5: those two qualities near and dear and don't tip out

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Speaker 5: of wherever else we might end up.

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Speaker 2: Stay on the knife edge. Stay on the knife edge.

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Speaker 8: Uh man, he is giving me stink eye.

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Speaker 2: This is all great. I don't even know where to begin.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna jump around for a minute. Oh, here's the

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Speaker 2: thing I want to talk about. This is a craction

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Speaker 2: to a craction. You should will limit it to like

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Speaker 2: there'll be a statement, a correction, a correction to a craction,

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Speaker 2: a craction to that correction, and then we usually drop it.

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Speaker 2: That's what this is. This is where we're at. I

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Speaker 2: don't even want to get into it. So number of

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Speaker 2: episodes ago I talked about a piece that came out

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Speaker 2: I believe in Free Press Barry Weiss's publication Free Press,

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Speaker 2: where I have an article coming out, I'll point out, uh,

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Speaker 2: and it was a researcher who just written a piece

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Speaker 2: about wildfires in California. And he was writing and he

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Speaker 2: published it in the journal. Like there's two the two

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Speaker 2: most prestigious scientific journals on the planet are Nature and Science.

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Speaker 2: You agree, I agree? Okay, he agrees. You ever had

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Speaker 2: anything in there?

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Speaker 7: They don't like ducks.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me give you a tip. You want to

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Speaker 2: get something in there, listen to what I'm gonna tell you.

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Speaker 2: I'm all yours, he said. He wrote he published in

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Speaker 2: Nature about the role of climate change in wildfires in California,

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Speaker 2: and then publishing ed saying, if you want to be

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Speaker 2: published in Science or Nature, you have to focus exclusively

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Speaker 2: on climate. You could all the myriad factors that go

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Speaker 2: into wildfires, like why the increase in human caused wildfires,

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Speaker 2: forestry practices, the lack of forestry practices leading to wildfires,

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Speaker 2: electrical transmission practices leading into wildfires, and he says, no

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Speaker 2: one's going to care. If it's climate change, you will

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Speaker 2: get published. Then some stuff came out where they revealed

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Speaker 2: that in the review process of his article Nature, the

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Speaker 2: editors at Nature had said, well, have you factored in

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Speaker 2: all this other stuff? And he said, well, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get to it in later research projects. So they

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Speaker 2: kind of did like a gotcha, meaning, oh, no, we

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Speaker 2: did ask about all of that stuff and he is

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Speaker 2: going to get to it later, but we specifically asked

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Speaker 2: about all these other factors. Then what came back he said, like,

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Speaker 2: but we would have never had that conversation had I

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Speaker 2: focused on those other factors. Heffelfinger writes in your discussion

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Speaker 2: about climate change writing in Nature confused me when I

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Speaker 2: sent you the link to that guy's blog, I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize that was exactly the story you were talking about

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Speaker 2: in the original procast number four seventy eight. I sent

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Speaker 2: you that as supporting information for what you were talking about,

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Speaker 2: the positive bias and climate change publishing publishing, which is

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Speaker 2: absolutely a rampant problem. Everything he said in that article

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Speaker 2: was true completely. I see it all the time when

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Speaker 2: researchers are writing a proposal to get a research grant,

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Speaker 2: they have to make everything about climate change follow the narrative.

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Speaker 2: That's where the money is. A study on summer precipitation

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Speaker 2: on elkcaff recruitment becomes all about climate change, dry summers.

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Speaker 2: The first draft of one of my son's papers from

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Speaker 2: his master's degree mentioned climate change in six of ten

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Speaker 2: sentences in the abstract because his major professor was trying

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Speaker 2: to get in a prestigious journal and it has to

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Speaker 2: be about climate change to accomplish that. It was simply

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Speaker 2: a mule deer fonn survival study in Nevada, and the

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Speaker 2: abstract was all about climate change. The narrative. Again, this

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Speaker 2: is a huge problem in scientific writing. And he goes on.

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Speaker 2: Then he goes on to say, basically, how could you

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Speaker 2: have been surprised by the thing that the rabbit don't

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Speaker 2: die when it comes to pregnancy test? Because it's an

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Speaker 2: Aerosmith I'll point out is Aerosmith's only good song where

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Speaker 2: he says, what does he say, because the rabbit done died,

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Speaker 2: meaning a pregnancy Right? That's good? Yeah, you're doing well.

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Speaker 8: It was the time on that twelve seconds?

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Speaker 2: Uh, New Jersey? Can we hit this Krinn?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, it'll take a minute.

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Speaker 2: Remember when I said my least favorite politician in America

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Speaker 2: was New Jersey's Governor Murphy Whoe. I wouldn't know him. No,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn know, hi, because I remember when he got

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Speaker 2: he was one of those governors that got real, telling

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Speaker 2: everybody not to do anything during the pandemic, and then

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Speaker 2: he gets caught out in a restaurant without his mask.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Anyways, he campaigned on shutting down the black bear hunting

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Speaker 2: New Jersey, which makes him my least favorite politician in America.

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Speaker 2: My current least favorite politician in America is Jay Insley,

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Speaker 2: but back then my least favorite politician in America was

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Speaker 2: Murphy Well. The New Jersey hunt is back on. The

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Speaker 2: New Jersey bear hunts back on New Jersey. Screws with

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Speaker 2: the hunters real bad, so they'll do it. They'll do

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Speaker 2: a black bear hunt. And when you kill a BlackBerry,

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Speaker 2: you have to bring it in. This is quite common

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Speaker 2: across pretty much. I can't think a single state where

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Speaker 2: you kill a black bear and don't bring the black

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Speaker 2: bear and so they can collect some biometric data off it.

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Speaker 2: Here in the state we're sitting in right now, in Montana,

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Speaker 2: which teeters on the edge of common sense and rugged individualism.

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Speaker 2: When you kill a bear, you take it down the

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Speaker 2: fishing game. You go into the front office, you say, hey,

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Speaker 2: I have a bear. I like to check like a

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Speaker 2: biole just to come out. You go on the back.

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Speaker 2: You'll do your bear check in privacy. Right, you go

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Speaker 2: to in catch kan Alaska, you'll bring your bear in.

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Speaker 2: You go to a place you go in in some

439
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 2: level of privacy, you do your bear check. New Jersey

440
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 2: when they do a bear hunt, they're like, hear ye,

441
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 2: hear ye. All bear hunters will have to come walk

442
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 2: the gauntlet of protesters to publicly register their bear hunt

443
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: while getting was that word we talk about their day

444
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 2: The mean a cost by getting a costed good job,

445
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: you honest.

446
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 5: We talk about a lot of words over the years,

447
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 5: so it's hard to remember the last one.

448
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: But yeah, So it causes all this trouble and all

449
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 2: these protests and then everybody gets bent out of shape. Meanwhile,

450
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: it has the highest density of black bears anywhere. New

451
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 2: Jersey has the highest density of black bears anywhere in

452
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: the country. So the controversial black bear hunt is back

453
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 2: on in New Jersey following a Superior Court judge ruling

454
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 2: that did not favor animal rights groups and de facto murphy.

455
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: Monday mark the first day of the October hunt. So whatever,

456
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: what the hell? Monday was at whatever the hell Monday.

457
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 4: I think this came out like last week, so this

458
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 4: is like early October.

459
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: Another is scheduled in December. Hunters brought the bears they

460
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 2: killed to the Waiting Haam Wildlife Management Area in Newton.

461
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: One limitation is the bears weighing less than seventy five

462
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 2: pounds can't be harvested.

463
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 5: Ooh, that's tricky.

464
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 2: I like that. Oh man, you do well. I like

465
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: it because of the alternative. Because remember what happened last

466
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 2: time when New Jersey did a bear hunt. Some killed

467
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: that bear pedals that had like the deformed feet. Oh yeah,

468
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 2: everybody liked it because it had no feet. John Muellen,

469
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 2: who's been on the show twice and I love the

470
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 2: guy to death. I'd like to strangle him for this,

471
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: rote an obituary of the bear. Great guy, great writer

472
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 2: wrote an obituary for petals was and it was when

473
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: he when when a hunter killed pebbles, it was reported

474
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 2: that Pebbles has been pedals had been assassinated. So where

475
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: was I seventy five pounds limit?

476
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 7: Uh?

477
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: That is tricky. While the officials say the hunt is

478
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: the most effective way to prevent bear and human encounters

479
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: in densely populated in New Jersey. I can't remember how

480
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: many bear complaints they had.

481
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 4: Well, well, so New Jersey resumed hunting in twenty twenty

482
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 4: two or bear hunting and so last year due to

483
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 4: reports of the animals causing property damage and being a nuisance,

484
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 4: with reports of those up nearly two hundred and forty

485
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 4: percent since the previous year twenty twenty one.

486
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot. Flora's going to face a similar

487
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: situation Florida to try to bear hunt. They ran it

488
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 2: very conservatively. Everything went right, but they blew past their

489
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: their harvest quarter. Like you if you're doing a hunt

490
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: and you have a harvest quota, a lot of times

491
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: you'll have to you'll check every night. Like let me

492
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: just let's say you have a hunt. You say that

493
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: there's a harvest quote of ten, and you open it

494
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: up in this big area. Well, every day you're counting

495
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 2: how many things get registered. But the rule is that

496
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 2: it shuts off in forty eight hours because people need,

497
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: you need time to spread the word, or it shuts

498
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: off in twenty four hours. So Florida hit their quota

499
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: way quicker than they thought. They closed it, but then

500
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: the twenty four hour window made them blow past the quota.

501
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: Everyone had such a conniption. Half the country looked, my

502
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 2: half looking just like, man, there must be a lot

503
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: of bears. And then the other half looked and be like, man,

504
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: they killed all the bears. Just like different worldviews, right,

505
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: and there's there are they getting? They're gonna take another

506
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 2: shot at it? I believe in Florida, I don't know

507
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 2: about that.

508
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 4: Can I just jump back to Jersey for a second.

509
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 4: So we're really only talking about two short weeks, so

510
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 4: October ninth through the fourteenth and December fourth through the

511
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 4: ninth as hunting days, so we're not talking about like

512
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 4: a long season of months and months. So and then

513
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 4: it's it looks like on the first day of the season,

514
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 4: one hundred and five.

515
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: Bears were killed on the first day.

516
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 8: Can they bait out there?

517
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: No way?

518
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 8: Probably probably not. But and I don't know how. I

519
00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:00,239
Speaker 8: don't know. Statistics sound like sounds like yeah.

520
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: And they don't hibernate over there. Apparently, well, they stay

521
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: up all year. I don't know if in December.

522
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: I bet they go down eventually, they probably intermittently. Maybe

523
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 2: that's why they.

524
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 9: Did the December hunt because they know they're.

525
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 7: The you win this one, we're gonna give you a

526
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 7: hunt in December.

527
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 2: Oh, check this stuff out, so everybody knows f HF.

528
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: You should know FAHF f HF gear, Fish Hunt fight

529
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: all American made gear. If you like to hunt docks,

530
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: we're here to talk about ducks. She just check out

531
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: the So you know, like the biny rigs. If you

532
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: see our stuff, you all to see that that we

533
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: wear a lot of f HF binyl rigs, which are

534
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: the best vinyl rigs on the planet. Paul's been in

535
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: the binyl rig game since the binyl rig game began.

536
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,239
Speaker 2: What's funny is our camera guys discovered that they had

537
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: been on wasting all of this real estate on their bodies,

538
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: and so they started wearing binyl rigs to carry their

539
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: junk in it. So nice, Yeah, mos, like I can't

540
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 2: leave my whole life. I just wasted this area in

541
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: front of my body when I could have had all

542
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: my shit there. So he started wearing binyl rigs and

543
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: just filling the full of batteries and lens wipes and

544
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 2: whatever stuff you wanted. Like he'll he'll be in some

545
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: restaurant in Paris with a binyl rig on you know,

546
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: filming anyhow. So eventually the FAHF binyl rig morphed into

547
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: like a chest rig, just a gear rig, and FAHF

548
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: now has the waterproof chest rig. So for when you're

549
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 2: out hunting ducks or I don't know, trap muskrats, you

550
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: got a total waterproof rig, which I guess has been

551
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: getting a lot of interest from various military groups that

552
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: like that thing as well. So totally waterproof, submersible chest

553
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: rig that you can keep someone you dunk and you

554
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: come up your phone and all your stuff still good.

555
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 2: And then there's an E four of powers that attaches

556
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: to the main rig so you can accessorize the dickens

557
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: out of it. And then the best thing on the planet,

558
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: I don't know how it is one, I guess it's

559
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: fair those cows. Idea the cow pouch, which has changed

560
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 2: my life because the cow pouch.

561
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 8: Oh that's what it's short for. I thought it was

562
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 8: like short for Colbert kid.

563
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: So it's a shell bag, okay, pictures. It's this little

564
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: square shell bag with a hand on it and a zipper.

565
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: You can dump three boxes of shells, like I think,

566
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: you know, it'll hold three boxes of two and three quarters,

567
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: maybe three boxes at three inch. I know because we

568
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: have the bird loads, I can dump twenty Well, okay,

569
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: let me say this. I know for a fact that

570
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: for my kids, I can dump three boxes of twenty

571
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: gage six shot in the bag. It's zips and it's

572
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: like this square little bag. And then it's got a

573
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: slit in it with a clear plastic window. So you

574
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: cut out of the shell box what the hell is

575
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: and slide it in the window and you can got like.

576
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: So there's cameo side panels, there's orange side panels. When

577
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: I organize mine, I know that the orange is upland shells,

578
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: the Campbell's waterfowl shells. Then I took a mark and

579
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: wrote twelve twenty because my kids shoot twenties and I

580
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: shoot a twelve. It's the greatest this year hunting youth duck.

581
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: I took one of those bags, unzipped it, set it

582
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: in front of all the kids, and everybody just shoots

583
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 2: out of the thing. You're not messing around with boxes

584
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: to get wet and fall apart.

585
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 4: Cattle pouch, So philm has a lab named after him,

586
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 4: and Cal is a pouch named after pouch steed.

587
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 11: I also use that for dog food if I'm doing

588
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 11: like a day tripper two daily trip, throw dog food

589
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 11: in there.

590
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 2: Works out great. I love it. No, it is a great, great,

591
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: great idea. Yeah, it's called Steve Reno, just the same ring. Also,

592
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: dsd's Honker Maximum line available this fall. DSD is Uh.

593
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,719
Speaker 2: Here's the thing about DSD decoys in such demand that,

594
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: like I think, I hear more people are trying to

595
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say this because works again, DSD. You gotta

596
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: wait in line to get DSD decoys.

597
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 8: Sometimes because they're so good.

598
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never realized this. People want those decoys, so

599
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: get in line. Well, they're kind of getting all this

600
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: taken care. But just an enormous amount of demand for

601
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: DSD decoys and their Maxima Honker line available this fall,

602
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: and a brand new Maximum Full Bodies Geese full Bodies soon.

603
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 2: Floaters are in stock now. Stackable sleeper shells will be

604
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: back in stock soon as well. So if you're sitting

605
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: around wonder why you gotta wait to get DSD decoys,

606
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: it sounds like your problems are over. DSD has also

607
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: re released their Deadly snow Goose decoys with more poses

608
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: in a brand new motion system that is user friendly

609
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: and offers even more realistic movement than before. So check

610
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: all that out, and while you're at it, check out

611
00:31:52,720 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: the Duck and Goose calls over at Phelps Game Calls Jersey?

612
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: Should we talking about New Jersey?

613
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 8: More crinn No, we already that was That's I'm joking.

614
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 2: I have something on ducks. Oh please.

615
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 9: So I don't know if you guys have seen it yet,

616
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 9: but there's a meat Eater collab collab call coming out

617
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 9: from seven thirty seven Duck Calls that is bad to

618
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 9: the buzzes good. Yes, it the call runs awesome. We've

619
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 9: we've used their calls for a long time. But Matt

620
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 9: just got the proof texted to him yesterday. We were

621
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 9: on a call with those guys yesterday. But that call

622
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 9: is going to be coming out in November.

623
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: Yet one you got one in your pocket right now?

624
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 3: I go. It's a limited sneak sneak peek on the picture.

625
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 9: So there's only going to be a couple hundred of them.

626
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 9: Oh really, So they're they're going to go like hotcakes

627
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 9: and no one quick.

628
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: Can you you can buy?

629
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 3: It's going to.

630
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 9: Guy that could help you acquire one. Yeah, man, that'd

631
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 9: be cool. But they're they're awesome.

632
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 7: So Singler Double it's going to be a single single

633
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 7: read Yeah, so that'll be coming out early November.

634
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: Yep X party really quickly introduce yourself to you. Come

635
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: on all the time. Have you ever won trivia? Yeah? Yeah,

636
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 2: A couple of times. Yeah, a couple of times before,

637
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: a couple of times.

638
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 11: Well I've I've been on the podcast a couple of times,

639
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 11: but I haven't. I've only won trivia once.

640
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: Great, was doctor Randall there?

641
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 6: Doctor Randall was there? Was there? And you want to yeah,

642
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 6: I want overtime.

643
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 11: So no, I think the only reason why I'm here

644
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 11: because I like ducks and I want to talk about

645
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 11: ducks and learn more about ducks.

646
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, this case, he's taking dun pictures. He's like,

647
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 2: look at all these ducks I killed, and I might

648
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: where just a spot.

649
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 7: It is a great answer.

650
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: You should be able to black people's numbers based on

651
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: what they text, like filters like gripping grinds. You got

652
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: to like opt in or out for their gripping grands man. Right, Oh,

653
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 2: what's super cool is the guy right down the road

654
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: in Belgrade, Montana, won the federal duck stamp contest. Have

655
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: you guys heard of this artist before?

656
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 3: I had not heard of him.

657
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 2: No, I hadn't either. Chuck Black, He's gonna come on

658
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 2: the show, but not for a while, right, m.

659
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 8: H yeah, early early in the new year.

660
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was surprised how young you was. I don't

661
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: know what I was picturing. Good for him, you know

662
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 2: when I was picturing in my head Elliott West.

663
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 8: He's in his seventies.

664
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: I'll picture Elliott West. But yeah, like so he he uh,

665
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: he's been in this business his whole life. Right, is

666
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: that cracked? I'm asking you?

667
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 6: Yeah?

668
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 7: I mean.

669
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 8: It looked like he started drawing at least when he

670
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 8: was a kid.

671
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 11: And he doesn't do just docs either. He does Kyle's

672
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 11: Birds Elk Scenic.

673
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: It's incredible landscape stuff.

674
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 8: Too, Yeah, painting.

675
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 3: Sorry, This this video that FIL's showing right here kind

676
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: of documents the process, but it also shows him up

677
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 3: in red rocks, up in Montanne getting the inspiration video

678
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: for this duck. So this duck is actually like a

679
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 3: Montana duck, which is pretty cool.

680
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 7: Steve, do you know what kind of duck that is?

681
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: It's pin tail? Okay, just making sure tell you what

682
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: we got. We got a we ate a pintail two

683
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 2: nights ago that the end just got. He got an

684
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 2: antelope punt of all things with the proper firearm. That's cool.

685
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really cool.

686
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: So congratulations Chuck blackfirst. So he'll he'll be on next

687
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: year's duck stamp, right. Yeah. Yeah, I was hunting. I

688
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 2: was hunting and my kids, my boy and my daughter.

689
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 2: My boy's old enough and my daughter's not old enough.

690
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: And he gets a buck and we get it all

691
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: caught up and we're carrying it and we hit a

692
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: road and I'm like, oh, this world. To go to

693
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: the truck. So I tell the kids you wait here,

694
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 2: and uh, I'm gonna get the truck. And so they

695
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: want to go up to this little hill to look around.

696
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 2: I come back a while later. I had to walk

697
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 2: a mile come back or to be seen some honking horn.

698
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: What the hell happened to him? Al said, Rosie comes

699
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 2: running over the hill. We got at You got a coyot, Yeah,

700
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 2: just actually flea ridden this. Yeah, so we got all

701
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: that skinned out. Oh dude, my ears. I had those

702
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: bugs in my ears for the next two days coming

703
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: off that thing. And then on the way out he

704
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: got himself a pintail. Nice, So you had a quite

705
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: nice little mixed bag. It's perfect antelope, coyote, pintail. Uh.

706
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 2: Can we skip this one?

707
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 8: Yeah, we can skip the next one too.

708
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: Well. I don't know this is bad news. Can we

709
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: just roll this into the other stuff?

710
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 8: Mm hmm.

711
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 12: Head.

712
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: Last year duck hunter numbers on the decline. Mm hmm.

713
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: So there was an uptick and duck hit duck hunter

714
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: numbers during COVID and then an and then a slight

715
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 2: decline afterward. Right they realized how hard it was. Yeah, kid,

716
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:05,959
Speaker 2: and they had to go back to work.

717
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 7: Yeah.

718
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: Oh, hunters begin Duck hunters drop out at around age seventy,

719
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 2: which means neither of our presidential candidates are going to

720
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 2: be duck hunting are in the duck hunting mix. Minnesota

721
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 2: mallard harvest numbers declining. Now, is this because of there

722
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 2: aren't as many people out or because of some other issue?

723
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 2: You guys should be able to answer this. I have a

724
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: theory on it. Go ahead, Okay, let's do around and

725
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 2: do a round table.

726
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 11: I think these mallards are just getting smarter and when

727
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 11: they're migrating through. I think they're just hitting the cities

728
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 11: and they just become city birds. You obviously can't hunt

729
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 11: them in the cities, and I think that's where they're going.

730
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: During the golf courses university campus.

731
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 11: Well, yeah, I mean just like town parks too. Like

732
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 11: I mean even just driving around Bozeman too. You there's

733
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,320
Speaker 11: a bunch of city birds.

734
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 6: We'll actually get to that really a little while.

735
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: Great. Uh, I was talking about this with Matt and

736
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 2: Brady here. We were talking about the way that if

737
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: you go along the I ninety I guess it'd be

738
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 2: ninety four out there, right, ninety four corridor after Gooseyes,

739
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: has been a running a while, and you see like

740
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: all the places you'd expect to see a goose and

741
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: he's not there. But they're piled up in the weirdest

742
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: little spots basically like they got one foot in the highway.

743
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 2: They're like sun dudes yard, you know, I mean, like

744
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 2: a pretty smart approach to it, man.

745
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, that's what I would do if I was

746
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 9: a goose and all my friends were getting shot, I'd

747
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 9: hang out somewhere like that for sure, like.

748
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: In the highway media.

749
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, somewhere right on the shoulder.

750
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

751
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: What what's fascinating is the the population numbers of mallards

752
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 3: aren't necessarily down. I mean they kind of do this

753
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 3: number regardless.

754
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, we've been we've been bound and around right

755
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 6: with those numbers. I think we went under ten million

756
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 6: this year, but we the height.

757
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 7: Was what three three years ago we hit.

758
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 6: Like thirteen million, fourteen million, and uh. But yeah, they

759
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 6: basically cycle. A lot of it is cycling with the

760
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 6: may ponds up in the Dakotas where they where they

761
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 6: use some of that data to.

762
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 7: Estimate those numbers.

763
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 6: But then some interesting aspects is that it looks like

764
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 6: some mallards are starting to overfly into into areas Nunavate

765
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 6: territory further north where you're not where we don't have

766
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 6: anybody checking. But I was moose hunting on the Yukon

767
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 6: VC border and they were everywhere last year.

768
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: Did you get one? I did?

769
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 7: It was great. I made my.

770
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 6: You know, I don't want to talk about that.

771
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 7: No, no, no.

772
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 2: I was just holding you say like, well, how big

773
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 2: was your moose? Yeah?

774
00:39:59,280 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 6: You got one?

775
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 7: Well let's hear about it.

776
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you when you go to Register of

777
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 2: Moose online. There's a drop down where you enter how

778
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 2: many brow times it has? Mm hmm. I had to

779
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: go all the way. No, No, you couldn't get there.

780
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: You had to lie to drop down, didn't It ends

781
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: at nine? He just kept going it ends at nine. Yeah,

782
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 2: I couldn't. The number was not high enough to accommodate

783
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: the brows. Did your bull move ten?

784
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 6: Wow?

785
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: One more than nine?

786
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 9: This actually teased back up into the duck number thing.

787
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 9: So Matt can talk about we we have a theory

788
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 9: as well that I think.

789
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 3: Well, and it's more of a question for you know,

790
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 3: somebody like yourself, phils. So if population numbers continue to

791
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 3: do this, but hunter harvest numbers are down when you

792
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: look at how they actually gather that data for hunter

793
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 3: harvest numbers, they use a hip survey, right like everybody

794
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: has to, you know, fill out a hip survey.

795
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 2: I got two of those sitting on my desk right now.

796
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing about a hip survey is they

797
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 3: don't they they they max you out. They say thirty

798
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 3: one or more.

799
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: Two hundred yeah, oh is it thirty one or more?

800
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 2: It's like eight to eleven, thirty one or more.

801
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 7: I'm so high thirty one plus.

802
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, well, well, and most like guys that are

803
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 3: going hard are thirty one plus. But how do they

804
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 3: get accurate numbers with thirty one or more?

805
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me hear the couple. Let me hear a

806
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: couple of stats from this deal that we're looking at,

807
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: and then then we can take off from there. So,

808
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: for the first time in more than a half century,

809
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: mallards were not the most common duck. This is from

810
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 2: Twin Cities What is this newspap Twin Cities dot com?

811
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: What the hell's at?

812
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 3: Probably the Pioneer Press or something.

813
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: Okay, for the first time in more than a half century,

814
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: mallards were not the most common duck shop by Minnesota

815
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: waterfowl hunters in twenty twenty two. Okay, Mallards were topped

816
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: by both blue wing teal and ring neck ducks. Mallards

817
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 2: had been the most harvested duck in the state since

818
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 2: at least the nineteen sixties, and that's coming from Steve

819
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: Courtz Waterfowl Specials for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources.

820
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: So here's some numbers. One hundred and twenty five eight

821
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: hundred and twelve blueing teal last year, up from eighty

822
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: one thousand, so significant incline from twenty Okay, so we're

823
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: talking about twenty two and twenty one. In twenty one

824
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: eighty one thousand blue I'm rounding. In twenty one you

825
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: had eighty one thousand bluing teal, and twenty two you

826
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 2: had one hundred and twenty six thousand blueing deal ring necks.

827
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: Check this out. These are like wild fluctuations. Twenty one

828
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: you had twenty nine thousand ring necks, twenty two seventy

829
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: two thousand ring necks. So there you have like over

830
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: two I don't know, two point twenty five whatever the hell.

831
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: The mallard decline is not nearly as like as a percentage.

832
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,839
Speaker 2: The mallard decline is not. It's stark, but it's not

833
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 2: like as stark as it's other declines. So or other increases.

834
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 2: So you have those big creases increases then with mallards

835
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: and twenty one eighty four thousand mallards harvested and twenty

836
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 2: two sixty three thousand mallards harvested, and then wood ducks.

837
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: It's kind of like wood ducks are like wood duck

838
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: number and mallard numbers are like nuts on a dog.

839
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 2: I mean they're right in tight. Like you add eighty

840
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 2: four thousand mallards, eighty four thousand wood ducks sixty three

841
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 2: and twenty two sixty two thousand wood ducks in twenty two.

842
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: That's kind of incredible. Is that just coincidence?

843
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 6: That's gotta be coincidence, right, So, so the bluing teal.

844
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 6: The reason that those numbers, my guess is you have

845
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 6: to look at a weather severity for that that time

846
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 6: of year, during that entire hunting season.

847
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 7: My guess is it was a milder season winter.

848
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, so those otherwise they split yet exactly so blue

849
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 6: wings like if they feel a northern wind, they go,

850
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 6: got it. Like, the only reason that they would stick

851
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 6: around in Minnesota is it's it's not it's not. The

852
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 6: weather severity is not long enough and it's not strong

853
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 6: enough for that to move them. The same thing for

854
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 6: the ring necks, although ring necks are doing better.

855
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 2: Now too, got it.

856
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 6: The interesting part is on the mallard side that could

857
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 6: be a hunter thing. I would imagine a little bit

858
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 6: of that where those number because wood ducks are also

859
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 6: bred in the state. I actually have a wood duck

860
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 6: project right now in Minnesota trying to ask some of

861
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 6: those questions. But uh, wood ducks are mostly bred in

862
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 6: the States, so those numbers shouldn't fluctuate unless hunter hunter

863
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 6: numbers are a hunter what's the word ate effort is

864
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 6: not equivalent.

865
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 2: This throws out this hits Max thing where it says

866
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: it seems more ducks are avoiding Minnesota during their migration,

867
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 2: at least when most hunters are in the field. M like,

868
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: they fly over Minnesota like peace. They just fly around it.

869
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 6: I just don't.

870
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 7: I don't think they do that.

871
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: I've never had for Minnesota hunters so bad, hunter's so

872
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: not bad, hunter's so good. Ducks avoid us.

873
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 3: Docks will fly over Wisconsin. I've just never been asked

874
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 3: ever species specific surveying.

875
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 2: On my hip me neither.

876
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 3: No, I've never been asked how many ring necks I've killed?

877
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 2: How many Yorks? Yeah, well they must be doing I mean,

878
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: they got some pretty precise damn numbers. They must be

879
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: doing some kind of uh, they must be doing some

880
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 2: kind of survey information.

881
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, so a lot of those surveys and this is

882
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 6: one state, right, Yeah, of course those will come from

883
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 6: wingbe harvest. If anybody knows what I think you guys

884
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 6: talked about wingb's where you, uh, random number of hunt

885
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 6: waterfowl hunters in the country are asked to cut off

886
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 6: a wing and send them.

887
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: In with that for years. One time it was a

888
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 2: lot of paperwork. It was a lot of envelopes. Yeah.

889
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, you just kept shooting them, didn't you.

890
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, motivated me to hunt more research. I was like,

891
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 2: I don't want these suckers think I'm no good because

892
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: they sent me all these envelopes. Man, and then they

893
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:45,720
Speaker 2: would take I'm lazy.

894
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 6: On top of it, they'll have surveys at all of

895
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 6: the w m a's or wildlife management areas well. They'll

896
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 6: be where you have to go in and say and

897
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 6: they actually check your bag and they're like okay, and

898
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 6: then they extraple you can.

899
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 2: Extract, so they do model it.

900
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, got it that they.

901
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: Have not like specifically counted all of these ducks.

902
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 6: I mean, if if I'm in my backwoods shooting wood

903
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 6: ducks and stuff and nobody's nobody's asking that, because you're right,

904
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 6: the only other survey direct survey is just a general

905
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,240
Speaker 6: number of how many ducks did you shoot?

906
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: Which is the hip.

907
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 12: Uh.

908
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: Can I tell you quick thing about wood ducks. It's interesting.

909
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: One time when I was a kid, Uh, we would

910
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: hunt wood ducks in their roost ponds that night. M hmm,

911
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 2: and uh with a baby. I don't mean at night,

912
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 2: but I mean like it'd be you know, I'd hate

913
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 2: to go there now and with a game warden and

914
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: have them with a watch. You don't know what time

915
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: it was. I mean I do remember, like we're like,

916
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: you know, just it just was different. I don't know,

917
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: we just weren't aware of stuff. But I do remember

918
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,240
Speaker 2: like marveling at the sparks coming out.

919
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 6: Of the the marl shot first light, last light.

920
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 2: Right right at the end. Man, and it'd be uh, yeah,

921
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: you'd be out with a flashlight trying to find down ducks.

922
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: But it'd be like a great way to ruin a spot.

923
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 2: That we had enough spots that you know, we keep

924
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 2: real busy for like five six days and we just

925
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: blow every spot because it just ruins it. However, one

926
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 2: time we were cleaning wood ducks and had a wood duck.

927
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 2: Check this out. You know what his crop had in it?

928
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: What is it? A bunch of salmon eggs.

929
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's down.

930
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 2: In the creek picking up salmon spawn.

931
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's amazing. That you're you're so I don't know that.

932
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 6: So I have a study look at using DNA from

933
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 6: poop of ducks to do diet. We're trying to do

934
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 6: a different way the original ways you go out, you

935
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,439
Speaker 6: shoot like two hundred birds, you figure out what they eat,

936
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 6: like kind of like cropping outs. But instead we're using

937
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 6: DNA analyzing of the feces and we're getting and we're

938
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 6: matching up pretty well so far with like crop, but

939
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 6: we're getting a ton of ton of the vege that

940
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 6: you can't analyze because it's green veg. But the other

941
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 6: thing that keeps coming up is is fish fish keeping

942
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 6: with all the ducks. And my hypothesis right now is

943
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 6: that it's bycatch. Right, fish are putting eggs on all

944
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 6: the vege and they're eating the vege there and they're

945
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 6: taking it as bye catch.

946
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: There's no way that they're fish eggs. Oh oh, this

947
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: was like a full fish. No, you know what a

948
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: salmon egg looks like. Yeah, no, no, this isn't. This

949
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: isn't by catch.

950
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 6: I understand that might be like actually target because Mallard's orange,

951
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 6: I understand.

952
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 2: I understand, But you're thinking he's trying to eat weeds

953
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: and catching fish or fish eggs.

954
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 7: Fish eggs, eggs, eggs.

955
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we keep coming up with yeah, that was

956
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: pissed for a minute. I'm with you, no eggs, eggs.

957
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, but they're in everything, gadwell, wigeon, everything we've been

958
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 6: studying to star though. Yeah, it's a complete different calorie

959
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 6: count that we've never really considered as far as I'm

960
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 6: as I as I see it. So it's kind of

961
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 6: interesting that it's that I'm the woody. I'm sure maybe

962
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 6: mistakenly got them, which is interesting in itself. But we've

963
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 6: had mallards on bad diet in Minnesota. There's a paper

964
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 6: out there, I think it's Minnesota where they would go

965
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 6: into salmon ponds and actually catch some of the like

966
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 6: fry Oh.

967
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 2: No good, Yeah, Okay, Now, why do you think that

968
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: a duck isn't Why do you think that a duck

969
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,720
Speaker 2: isn't selecting for vegetation that's coated in eggs.

970
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 7: That's a good question. I don't know. I just don't think.

971
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know. I mean, they could be,

972
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 6: but it would be.

973
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 3: It.

974
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 6: It just wouldn't make sense right now, I guess I

975
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 6: don't know.

976
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 7: I mean, they you're saying.

977
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 6: You're telling me they're like looking around at the veget like, Oh,

978
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 6: that one's got a whole bunch of eggs.

979
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 7: I'm going to eat that.

980
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 2: Yes, they could do that. Well, I mean, I don't know,

981
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 2: that's what I'm saying. That's what I mean, That's what

982
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 2: I would be wondering.

983
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 6: Because I mean, nobody's really tested the Colorado baby is

984
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 6: calorie rich.

985
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 2: I need to dive down and get that.

986
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, because you've got you've got things like Widgeon that

987
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 6: are specialists on just veg right, so they're not even

988
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 6: omnivorous really and so and they're still picking it up.

989
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 7: So that's got to be bycatch.

990
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 6: But you're right, I mean, this is completely new like

991
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 6: that we that every time we analyze something. Fish is

992
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 6: like ninety percent in all in all of the feces.

993
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 6: And what's that ninety percent? You said, Yeah, like of

994
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 6: the samples we've collected, and that's you know, we focus

995
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 6: on Mallards, Mexican ducks, Model ducks because it's in Texas,

996
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 6: but we have sample you know, Wigeon, Gadwell, other stuff

997
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 6: that that we've sampled.

998
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 3: It's in ninety percent. It's not ninety percent of.

999
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 6: The Oh yeah, it's in ninety percent of the samples, right,

1000
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 6: so that's a hot that's that's some amount of fish.

1001
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, god it You know remember when, uh, when they

1002
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: banned lead shot for waterfowl, which have been what like

1003
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: eighty eighty It was a good old ninety two when

1004
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 2: the band led for waterfall.

1005
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, the legislation was late eighties and then it finally

1006
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 6: went into effects states.

1007
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 2: Ahead of it though it was when Kirk Cobain died.

1008
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, right around that.

1009
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: I don't know those are linked checks out. Uh. I

1010
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 2: used to tell people, but my understanding was that that

1011
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 2: they would the reason ducks were ingesting a lot of shots,

1012
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,439
Speaker 2: they were picking it up as grit for their crop.

1013
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 7: That's correct, Okay, that is Yeah.

1014
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 2: I've heard other people say no, no, no, no, they're just

1015
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: getting it. No, no, they would, they were going they

1016
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: would pick shot for their crop.

1017
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, And there's been plenty of studies that showcase that

1018
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 6: that it's all it's all accidental pickup because they're going

1019
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 6: to get rock, right, grit, and it just the amount

1020
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 6: of lead shot at that time that was at the surface,

1021
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 6: you know, at the surface of the lake, sediment was

1022
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 6: really high so they were the probability of picking it

1023
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 6: up was really high. But then they did several studies

1024
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 6: where they just basically turned the sediment over and all

1025
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 6: of a sudden they don't pick it up. And then

1026
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 6: obviously when the lead band went into effect, there was

1027
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 6: studies ten years later, you know, two years later, five

1028
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 6: years later, ten years later, and constant decline of lead

1029
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 6: in in waterfowl. So because the sediment kept.

1030
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: Bearing, the lead settled down.

1031
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 6: So now all the leads way down there for someone

1032
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 6: else to have a problem with later on.

1033
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, speaking of ducks eating stuff, I was always amazed

1034
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 5: as a fishing guy. You'd be out there during just

1035
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 5: an amazing hatch. I think it used to mostly be midges,

1036
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 5: I think, or mayflies, not so much the caddis, but

1037
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 5: you'd see those ducks get into an eddy where all

1038
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 5: those bugs will be getting caught, and they would just

1039
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 5: be pounding away and he'd be like, oh, I thought

1040
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 5: you just state like white bread and let us leap.

1041
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 3: But well, the salmon fly hatch for the geese, I

1042
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 3: mean you watch those like during the salmon fly hatch, oh,

1043
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 3: you see those big broods of geese up on the

1044
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 3: bank shores, they're just smashing salmon flies. Oh yeah, like

1045
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 3: if you ever hit the samfly hatch right, which is

1046
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 3: incredibly challenging regardless.

1047
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 2: Like on Canada geese, Yeah, feeding on those.

1048
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 3: Oh you see whole brute. I mean you'll have you know,

1049
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 3: eight groups of groups of eight or whatever, and they're

1050
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 3: just smashing those those salmon flies. But I mean sam flies.

1051
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 2: I'm not a squeamish man. Yeah, but when you open

1052
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 2: up a crop, I'd never like to see. Uh. I

1053
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: don't like to see I don't like to see critters. Yeah,

1054
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 2: especially because they're still live. You know. It's like yeah,

1055
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, come on some clover the right

1056
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: over there. I don't need to see all this. It's

1057
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 2: upset my meal plan. Phil. How'd you get interested in ducks?

1058
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 7: Duck hunting?

1059
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so now walk me through. Take me back to Russia.

1060
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was cold.

1061
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 2: You never want a ducks in Russia because.

1062
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 6: You're probably yeah, we were.

1063
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 2: I was so you were born in Russia in Moscow

1064
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 2: talking Russian?

1065
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, so my parents the way in Russia it works,

1066
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 6: you know, you just drop your child off in the

1067
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 6: middle of the woods and if they come back, it's okay. Yep, Yeah,

1068
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 6: that's what happened. It was January, so it's cold, but

1069
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 6: I made it. No, So we were we we got

1070
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 6: over to the States in eighty nine, and I think

1071
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 6: I was telling you, uh, the choice of two evils,

1072
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 6: Los Angeles and New York.

1073
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 2: And because you guys just weren't into the whole Russia.

1074
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 6: Scene, correct, Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know

1075
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 6: if you know. Note this, but a lot of Russians

1076
00:55:55,920 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 6: fall out of windows occasionally, just my chance and bears

1077
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 6: every time.

1078
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 2: Sure as we just learned with when why did name

1079
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 2: he was the most interesting man in the world for

1080
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 2: a few.

1081
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 9: Days the leader progosen Yeah, airplanes.

1082
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 2: Said like progos, and everybody's like, I wouldn't go near

1083
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 2: an open window. Sure enough.

1084
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,959
Speaker 6: So yeah, anyway, so we got over, uh, and then

1085
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 6: my folks obviously had to work. And but then eventually

1086
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 6: my dad finally got enough cash and bought a shotgun

1087
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 6: and we went.

1088
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 2: Because how did he How was he even aware that

1089
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 2: hunting was a thing? This is the thing I was

1090
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 2: because my dad was raised by Italian immigrants, and the

1091
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 2: journey of becoming even aware that this is like a

1092
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 2: thing you can engage in is interesting, right.

1093
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1094
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 6: So the interesting thing is Los Angeles has a lot

1095
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 6: of really great sporting plays area and he shot I mean,

1096
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 6: he hunted in Russia, so we wanted.

1097
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, so.

1098
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 6: So he wanted to do it, so he kind of

1099
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 6: got it. We started going to some of the sporting

1100
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 6: clays areas. Eventually I competed there and and then.

1101
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, how good are you?

1102
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 6: I'm thirty one plus on ducks every year.

1103
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: So that's pretty good. Yeah, he quits at Yeah.

1104
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 6: So there's a place called Sultan Seed, do you know

1105
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 6: what that That's where I grew So that's where we

1106
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 6: started hunting, mostly dove initially, and then uh started to

1107
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 6: hunt ducks. And that's where I shot my first dove

1108
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 6: when I was ten with my dad's twelve gage and

1109
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 6: I was probably the most expensive shot ever because you know,

1110
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 6: that set my entire life forward of putting a lot

1111
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 6: of money into this sport. And then we started hunting

1112
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 6: ducks and I loved it. I mean that's what we did.

1113
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 6: I didn't really get into big game because California is

1114
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 6: a hard place, especially without without private property and knowing

1115
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 6: people and all the time.

1116
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 2: I have a little bit of a hard time believing it.

1117
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 6: Look, I hunted a zone a ton. The only thing

1118
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 6: I got was a two by one. All those years,

1119
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 6: I was real proud and you should have been. Yeah,

1120
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 6: and it's it's just hard. And also my dad hunted

1121
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 6: big game Russian style, which is a lot more drive

1122
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 6: driving with shotguns.

1123
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 2: There's no right, I'll say, with those giant Soviet helicopters.

1124
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, first one of those.

1125
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 6: So it was completely different, right the way big game

1126
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 6: hunting here is. So I didn't really get into it

1127
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 6: until like fourteen fifteen. So until then I was I

1128
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 6: was duck hunting most weekends in LA. I was mostly

1129
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 6: I would tell them I'm just fishing because apparently fishing

1130
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 6: is okay, hunting not so much.

1131
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 2: So, so like when you had to explain where you'd been.

1132
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, where were you this week? I was fishing, yeah.

1133
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 6: And so yeah, so I got into it, and then

1134
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 6: that sort of set my tone forward. I went to

1135
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 6: undergrad at UC Davis up in Sacramento. One of the

1136
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 6: reasons I went there besides getting in the hunting ducks yeah, uh,

1137
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 6: sack refuge and all of that is there. So it's

1138
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 6: great hunting.

1139
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 2: So did you know you're gonna be a duck researcher.

1140
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 2: At that point, I didn't.

1141
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 6: I thought I was going to be the guy in

1142
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 6: Jurassic Park that brings back all the dinosaurs. But then,

1143
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 6: and that's why I'm a geneticist.

1144
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 2: Oh you were interested in that? Oh yeah, do you

1145
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 2: remain interested in that?

1146
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 6: I I am, but it's impossible. Although well so I'm on.

1147
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 7: I'm part of.

1148
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: The way. My kids understand it.

1149
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, so it's gonna be interesting.

1150
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1151
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 6: So I'm on the board with a Reviving Restore as

1152
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 6: well as Colossal, the ones trying to bring back the mammoth.

1153
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 2: Are you on the advisory panel or the board?

1154
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 7: No?

1155
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 6: Advisory just like science, especially in fact, there's a meeting

1156
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 6: right now that I'm missing. But that's okay, that's good. Yeah,

1157
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 6: so I am interested in it. But to be fair,

1158
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 6: I got into fisheries at UC Davis. So I was

1159
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 6: doing trout Sacramento Purge, doing genetics on them, creating uh

1160
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 6: captive breeding programs for releases and stuff like that, looking

1161
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 6: at hybridation between red bands and rainbows and all this,

1162
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 6: and then I realized, like, I like talking about fish,

1163
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 6: but I really like talking about ducks. And so for

1164
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 6: graduate school, I went to Ohio at Wright State University.

1165
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 6: There was a guy there had the money that I needed.

1166
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 6: I told me I could do whatever I want, and

1167
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 6: it was perfect and the only the only difference is

1168
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 6: that I became a white tail hunter for a little

1169
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 6: while while in Ohio. I never understood this field hunting situation.

1170
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 6: Eventually I figured it out.

1171
01:00:58,240 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 7: But it wasn't for me.

1172
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 6: I like, I like the gop in wetlands and calling

1173
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 6: big spreads these types of things. But yeah, so, and

1174
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 6: that's where I dove into waterfowl research, primarily mallard complex.

1175
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 6: So I don't know if you know this. There are

1176
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 6: fourteen species of mallard like ducks all around the world.

1177
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 6: Here in North America we have the mallard, American black duck,

1178
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 6: two types of model duck Florida and West Golf Coast,

1179
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 6: and the Mexican duck.

1180
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 2: And those are all real tight sister species.

1181
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 6: Yeah genetically. Yeah, so those are the most recent recently

1182
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 6: diverged groups.

1183
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 7: So they diverged about half a million years ago.

1184
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 6: The rest of the group the African black duck, yellow

1185
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 6: bill duck, mallards duck in Africa, a couple spot build

1186
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 6: ducks in Asia, Pacific, black duck, New Zealand, gray duck,

1187
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 6: hawine duck, Laysan duck. Those are more old than about

1188
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 6: million two million year old divergence. Yeah, so I started

1189
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 6: diving deep into it, and we're gonna start getting into

1190
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 6: some some of this stuff that I am interested in.

1191
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 6: But more or less, what I do is I take

1192
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 6: genetic information, I ask questions in the evolutionary side, trying

1193
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 6: to get into nature, you.

1194
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 7: Know, you know, and now I know climate change.

1195
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 6: And then uh, but but I'm really big on management, right, so,

1196
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 6: and it's taken me over a decade to show how

1197
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 6: genetics can play in management, uh more applied aspects. And

1198
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 6: so how that kind.

1199
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 2: Of what you mean by that?

1200
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 6: That means, Uh, when I talk about genetics to a

1201
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 6: bunch of wildlifers, they usually like roll their eyes back

1202
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 6: and they're like, oh, this is gonna be abou drosophilo

1203
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 6: or mice or something like that, because that's that's what

1204
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 6: they've known what genetics is. And so they are just like,

1205
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 6: that's not applied. You know, band recoveries, telemetry units, you know,

1206
01:02:54,720 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 6: habitat server, that's applied. That's right, uh. And so and

1207
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 6: so you know, we finally come to this time point

1208
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 6: where these new methods that I was part of developing,

1209
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 6: developing and kind of bringing to the forefront. Lots of

1210
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 6: people use some of the methods that I do, but

1211
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 6: what it does is it allows us to get a

1212
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 6: snapshot of a genome of every individual for low cost

1213
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 6: and very quick. The turnaround times are quick quick enough

1214
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 6: that data can be attained within months and can go

1215
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 6: into models or anything else and actually feed feed into

1216
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 6: decision making. Before you know genetics, you go out, you

1217
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 6: shoot a bunch of birds or collect them from hunters,

1218
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 6: and sometimes it would take five six years just to

1219
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 6: get the data. It was hard. Computationally we weren't there.

1220
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 6: Methodologically we weren't there. But thankfully when I was coming up,

1221
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:01,439
Speaker 6: all of that computers, sequencing technology, all of that kind

1222
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 6: of like came to a point where we were able

1223
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 6: to do some real world questions and applications with And

1224
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 6: obviously I did it on ducks. But if you look

1225
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 6: at what I've done, I've anybody anything that's got DNA

1226
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 6: and some money.

1227
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 7: You know, we work on So.

1228
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 2: Can you run test real cheap?

1229
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 6: When I send you bones, bones, bones are gonna be Yeah,

1230
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 6: how old are those bones?

1231
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 7: Ancient, ancient bones.

1232
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 2: I'd like them to be a lot of times are not.

1233
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 2: I would have to I've gotten some disappointing results. So

1234
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 2: but it was so deep.

1235
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 6: So we uh, the best we've done, and I would

1236
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 6: have to go to my Smithsonian colleagues is because they've

1237
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 6: got an ancient lab there where we work. And we

1238
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 6: did a one thousand, five hundred to one thousand year

1239
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 6: old bones out of Hawaii.

1240
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 7: Duck bones.

1241
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 6: And the fun part about this, in the same cave

1242
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 6: where Polynesians were eating, there was a laysand duck, a

1243
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 6: Hawaiian duck, and something they thought was a Hawaiian duck

1244
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 6: based on the bone morphology, turned out to be a

1245
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 6: northern shoveler from a lot of really yeah.

1246
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 2: And then they have butcher marks on the bones.

1247
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 7: I don't know. I didn't get to look at them.

1248
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 6: Oh uh no. Yeah, So so we sort of So

1249
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 6: the paper that where we're going right now, so something

1250
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 6: that we can do we've got to study, hopefully published

1251
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 6: in a year or so as we finish up. But

1252
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 6: we've got mallards now sampled from eighteen hundred to today

1253
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 6: across space time.

1254
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 2: Really yeah. Yeah.

1255
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 6: So so where'd you get there.

1256
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 2: Where'd you get the eighteen hundred mallard from?

1257
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 6: They're from twenty seven partnering National Museum, So thank you all.

1258
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 2: Oh did you get anything from Cornell? We did, dude,

1259
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 2: we went to Cornell. We were at Cornell and they

1260
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 2: opened his door and we're in their their bird collection thing,

1261
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 2: and so you know, I asked, like, what apparently everybody

1262
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 2: in the planet asks, is you guys got any passenger pigeons? No,

1263
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 2: not passed with the helmet was yeah, yeah, and an

1264
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 2: Ivory built woodpecker. Everybody asked about the same birds so

1265
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 2: much to keep them the same drawer. They're like, oh, yeah,

1266
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 2: here's a drawer that like every like idiot wants to

1267
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 2: look into and they open it up and it's a

1268
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 2: passenger pigeons, ivybuilt woodpecker. Who else is in there? Just

1269
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 2: like the ones, the ones where people are like, uh,

1270
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 2: extinct species.

1271
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 6: Let me think for a minute, they have a labor.

1272
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 2: I think it was in that. I think that it

1273
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 2: might have been in that thing. It was crazy man

1274
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 2: to hold one in the ivybuilt woodpecker. I used to

1275
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 2: dog on people, you know, when people are are like,

1276
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 2: oh I saw an ivorybuild woodpecker. And then they come

1277
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 2: out and be like, oh, you idiot, it was a

1278
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,479
Speaker 2: appiliated woodpecker. Well, listen, I know a lot of people

1279
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 2: spend a lot of time out with out in the woods.

1280
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 2: I could have laid that down in the woods and

1281
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 2: they would have said, oh, appiated woodpecker. It's not it's

1282
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 2: very That is an excusable mistake. But point being, I

1283
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 2: bet they got some feathers if you hadn't thought of this.

1284
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 6: No, we're your genes, I suggested to a reviving restore.

1285
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the mallards. They probably got some old

1286
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 2: ass mallards.

1287
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 7: Oh they do.

1288
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 6: We got eight of them. They're supposed to ship them.

1289
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 6: So we're doing we'd finished all the genetics. We're doing morphology,

1290
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 6: so we're doing three D scanning of their heads to

1291
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 6: look at change and bill. So they're feeding mechanism. And

1292
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 6: I'll explain why this is so important across time and space.

1293
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 2: You've no doubt read the book The Beak of the Finch.

1294
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 2: I have not, really. Yeah, well you might be like

1295
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 2: it might be too elementary for you.

1296
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, probably, Yeah, we'll go with that.

1297
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 2: No, The Beak of the Finch, it's about how you

1298
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 2: can watch the bill size on finches. They you can

1299
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 2: watch the beak size on finches change in the Glopagos.

1300
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 2: You can like, I don't want to say in real time,

1301
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 2: but I mean it's amazing. Yeah.

1302
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 6: The Grants husband and wife group watched a new species

1303
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 6: evolve since they started studying Darwin's finches.

1304
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 7: On the galop Goos.

1305
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 6: What happened was two species came on one island bread

1306
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 6: made this thing what we call a hybrid. But the

1307
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 6: hybrid was so distinct from its parents the way the

1308
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 6: types of food that they ate, that thirty years later

1309
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 6: genetically they were just their own now, their own own thing.

1310
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 2: That's what Yeah, Okay, this book might detail for a

1311
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 2: layman the research, but it was these birds are colonizing

1312
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 2: a new area with different food resources, and as they

1313
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 2: come in and they're like whatever, they're trying to get

1314
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 2: into a seed that's a harder shellacked because they're in

1315
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 2: an area they hadn't been before. And you can watch

1316
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:40,759
Speaker 2: selective pressures on those birds and watch their beaks change

1317
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 2: as they become accustomed to and have selective pressures applied around.

1318
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 2: Who's really good at getting seeds and that?

1319
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 6: And then you know, I think I had this conversation

1320
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 6: another podcast about like.

1321
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:57,360
Speaker 7: Evolution, another podcasts, what others? There's others really.

1322
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 6: Anyways, like people are like, oh, evolution, what's that? Honestly,

1323
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 6: the only the only name of the game and nature

1324
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 6: and what evolution is is be as good or better

1325
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 6: than everybody else. Right, So all you're trying to do

1326
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 6: is limit competition, and the good or better is that

1327
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 6: you either survive better and or have more babies.

1328
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 10: Right.

1329
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 6: The more babies you have, the more genes that are

1330
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 6: on the landscape, and thus you're winning. And so nature

1331
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 6: in island systems like the Galapagos are so interesting because

1332
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 6: it's so fast there, right, the pressures are like nope,

1333
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 6: you didn't eat, you die. That's that's what we call

1334
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 6: a selective pressure of one where it's like no, those

1335
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,839
Speaker 6: genes are gone. And so it's so much faster for

1336
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 6: adaptations to arise or go extinct because the ecology changes

1337
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 6: so quickly and everything.

1338
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 2: God's going somewhere with that those I don't know hmm, oh, no,

1339
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 2: I want need to ask you. I want to get

1340
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 2: to this whole thing with mallards and mallard like when

1341
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 2: you let pretend ducks go. Yeah, Okay, I want to

1342
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 2: get to that, but give me an example of how

1343
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 2: genetics could play into management. Like, I don't get it, Like,

1344
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:23,640
Speaker 2: give me a concrete, specific example of how genetic analysis

1345
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:24,799
Speaker 2: would play into management.

1346
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I'll give you a study that we're doing

1347
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 6: right now. So, the model ducks on the West Golf

1348
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:32,759
Speaker 6: Coast have been declining in size.

1349
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 2: Okay, slow that down, say that again.

1350
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:38,599
Speaker 6: Model ducks on the Gulf Coast regions of Texas and Louisiana, Ghostly,

1351
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 6: Texas have been declining and the surveys they were doing.

1352
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 6: But at the same time in West Texas, so the

1353
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 6: brush country of West Texas.

1354
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 7: Have you been there?

1355
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 2: Yep?

1356
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 7: Does e Averynthy know what I'm talking about?

1357
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,799
Speaker 2: Lots of ran that Johnny Cash song. I've been everywhere, man.

1358
01:10:54,960 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 6: That's me and ya in America, in America, America. Uh

1359
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,679
Speaker 6: and anyway. So there's a bunch of brown looking birds.

1360
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 6: So if you've never looked at a model duck, it's

1361
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:08,799
Speaker 6: a it's a brown looking mallard.

1362
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 2: People.

1363
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, everybody's like people mistake them, right, Yeah. But the

1364
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 6: Texas Parks and Wildlife wants to do surveys to be like, Okay,

1365
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 6: is this a population crash are the population shifting? And

1366
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,720
Speaker 6: for that they needed to know what the heck these

1367
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 6: things are from an aerial perspective. So then they contacted me,

1368
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 6: and what we did was we took We took birds.

1369
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 7: We collected.

1370
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 6: In fact, you were having a discussion about does anybody

1371
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 6: go out scientific collecting with a shotgun anymore?

1372
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, with your fowling piece.

1373
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:49,480
Speaker 6: That's that's what we do in May. So we go out,

1374
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 6: I'm free. Yeah.

1375
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 11: Does that count in the survey?

1376
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 2: Do you put down.

1377
01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 7: Extra?

1378
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 4: No?

1379
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 6: So, so we need to have breeding pairs, right, So

1380
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 6: we took hunter harvest. We took out anything we could,

1381
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 6: but we needed also what is breeding in this landscape?

1382
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 6: So we went all the way from I'm from Texas,

1383
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 6: but I don't know anything about Texas, so like Dallas

1384
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 6: all the way to the Mexico Texas border, right, ye.

1385
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 6: And so because there's another situation happening. Mexican ducks, which

1386
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 6: is another type of mallard like duck, are expanding out

1387
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 6: of Mexico nor kind of like a bomb out of

1388
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 6: Mexico into Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. There's even breeding pairs

1389
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 6: that we genetically that in Colorado.

1390
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 2: Was fly right over the wall.

1391
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:45,759
Speaker 6: They just imagine that thought they would dig under anyway.

1392
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 6: So we did this, So we went from one end

1393
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 6: to the other and lo and behold, both of them

1394
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 6: came in because and so on the one side, if

1395
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 6: you get all the way to about San Antonio and

1396
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 6: you draw a line model ducks, then something that we

1397
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 6: didn't expect but hypothesize model duck Mexican duck hybrids in

1398
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 6: this tiny band, and then all of a sudden, just

1399
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 6: Mexican ducks. So they're both coming in and interbreeding in

1400
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:13,759
Speaker 6: this location.

1401
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:19,679
Speaker 2: So the model ducks are declining, but what's replacing them

1402
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 2: is is.

1403
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 6: High modeled duck, more model ducks and potentially these hybrids.

1404
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 2: So we did, what do you call the hybrids a.

1405
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 7: Mexican duck, model duck hybrid, Mexican.

1406
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 2: Model Okay, what do you call it? Two generations later,

1407
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 2: So that's what.

1408
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:36,280
Speaker 6: So we're looking at how many generations they can interbreed.

1409
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 6: It seems like we're picking up back crosses, which means

1410
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 6: like geographically, if you're closer to the model duck group,

1411
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:44,720
Speaker 6: you back cross into model duck and you become more

1412
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 6: and more model duck. Is on the other end, close

1413
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:51,639
Speaker 6: to the Mexican border, their back crossing into Mexican ducks

1414
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 6: and so they become more Mexican duck like. But there's

1415
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 6: this band, this this really narrow what we call con

1416
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 6: tack zone where there it's just hybrids, which is completely new.

1417
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 2: But they're totally healthy there as far.

1418
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 6: So that's that's part of the diet analysis. With the feces,

1419
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 6: We're looking at bill morphology, muscle fiber morphology to understand

1420
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,360
Speaker 6: can they still fly the same, do they feed the same?

1421
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 6: What you know? Is there anything that would suggest these

1422
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 6: are less adapted than their parents?

1423
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 2: Yep.

1424
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 6: So anyway, so the point of this, how to get

1425
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:38,360
Speaker 6: back to your question, how does genetics uh provide applied aspects?

1426
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 6: So that data right, So I plot all that on

1427
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 6: a map so everybody understands what's happening. That data is

1428
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,639
Speaker 6: now fed back to Texas Parks and Wildlife to say, okay,

1429
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 6: we need to go in these regions to ban because

1430
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 6: our probability of getting a model duck, because that's what

1431
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 6: we care about, is really high, and so we're going

1432
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 6: to ban there. But on top of it, they're shifting.

1433
01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:01,719
Speaker 6: They're going to be shifting surveys over and start counting

1434
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 6: those ducks. So again, a population decline versus a population

1435
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:09,320
Speaker 6: rain shift have very different management implications.

1436
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:09,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1437
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 6: Right, So this is how it's feeding into that. And

1438
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 6: we've got studies in Hawaii, Arizona, all American Samoa doing

1439
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 6: similar things, trying to tell them what they're working with

1440
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 6: and how the genetics plays on the landscape.

1441
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,240
Speaker 2: Here's a question about genetics and how it's applied. Manage

1442
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:44,759
Speaker 2: it be. I'll start with a story years ago, almost

1443
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 2: been in the early nineties. I was hunting ducks on

1444
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:53,759
Speaker 2: the Saint Mary's River, which separates Michigan's Upper Peninsula from Canada.

1445
01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 2: And I remember getting checked by state and federal game warden, right,

1446
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 2: I remember I had. I was like, I'm sitting there

1447
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 2: with the hen Mallard and I remember they're going, what

1448
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 2: kind of duck is that? Yeah? And I was like

1449
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 2: the fact that he asked me that makes me think

1450
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 2: that that's not what I think it is. So I'm

1451
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 2: Michael Black duck good. You know, that's sure. I only

1452
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:25,640
Speaker 2: said that because you brought it up. So if oftentimes

1453
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:30,799
Speaker 2: you'll find when people are pointing out endemics, they're pointing

1454
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 2: out hybrids. It's like they're they're really down to the

1455
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 2: nats ass and they're like parsing things out that to

1456
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:40,639
Speaker 2: a layman, they might not even.

1457
01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:43,559
Speaker 6: Notice if you if you don't know what you're looking for.

1458
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you had to take like duck knowledge,

1459
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 2: like average duck knowledge, I know, yeah, and then you

1460
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:50,679
Speaker 2: put it on a spectrum of one to ten. Yeah,

1461
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 2: and you got to be like a ten point five

1462
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 2: to go down to this place in Texas and pick

1463
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:58,839
Speaker 2: up one of those ducks and be wait a minute,

1464
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 2: this is a modeled Mexican Mexican hybrid or would it

1465
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 2: just be to a duck hunter, it would just be like.

1466
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 6: It would be called a dusky duck, because that's what

1467
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:12,760
Speaker 6: they call him right now. So Texas, Texas, I think

1468
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 6: Arizona has a dusky duck limit and it's usually one

1469
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 6: or two. And they just say anything that's equivalent to

1470
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 6: a black duck, a model duck, a Mexican duck.

1471
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 7: I'll go here now, New Mexico.

1472
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 2: They're bundling black ducks, model ducks, dusky ducks. I'm sorry, Mexican.

1473
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 2: What's what's the name Mexican Mexican duck. It's just the

1474
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 2: Mexican ducky Mexican duck. That a black duck.

1475
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 7: Yeah, all I want.

1476
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 2: They're just calling them all dusky.

1477
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 6: That's that's in the game game rules. Yeah, that's in

1478
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 6: the hunting REGs. Uh.

1479
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:51,720
Speaker 2: And so, so sell me on this, Sell me on

1480
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 2: the what you're talking about here, like the Mallard thing

1481
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 2: that we're gonna get to. I get. But sell me

1482
01:17:55,840 --> 01:17:56,919
Speaker 2: on why this matters.

1483
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 6: Oh well, I mean this would matter if we don't

1484
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 6: any If model ducks are declining at the rates that

1485
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 6: they are in the Gulf Coast region, then Texas Parks

1486
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 6: and Wildlife is probably gonna have to make some serious decisions.

1487
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:11,679
Speaker 2: But they're being replaced by right.

1488
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 6: But if they're not, they're being replaced, which we didn't know,

1489
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 6: so now we have to understand. All right, so they're

1490
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 6: being replaced. They're not being replaced, they're making more. Right,

1491
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 6: that's what a contact zone. They keep coming together and

1492
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 6: it's like fringe. They're at the fringe of both of

1493
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 6: their ranges. And this is what happens. It's kind of

1494
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:34,679
Speaker 6: like a growler grizzly polars on the fringes are starting

1495
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 6: to yeah, are starting to interbreed more and more. Right,

1496
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 6: And so now it's a question of all right, Like,

1497
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 6: so we have this situation not only do my maps

1498
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 6: allow people who are really interested in hybrids go there,

1499
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 6: but also that it dictates, all right, so what do

1500
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:55,679
Speaker 6: we do with these types of birds? So Texas Parks

1501
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 6: and Wildlife may have to have additional season or additional

1502
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,920
Speaker 6: inform for those areas, those regional areas. On top of it,

1503
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:07,040
Speaker 6: how do what do they mean towards model duck or

1504
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 6: Mexican duck conservation? Like, how do they count towards those numbers?

1505
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:14,160
Speaker 6: I can't tell you because they're the ones making the

1506
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,400
Speaker 6: rules and I'll leave them to that. But we're there

1507
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:21,440
Speaker 6: to supply the information, the maps, the idea, the knowledge

1508
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 6: of what's occurring on the landscape, and they can then

1509
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 6: use that to make better decisions outside of just being

1510
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 6: like they're all brown ducks, I guess it's let's.

1511
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:29,799
Speaker 7: Just call them.

1512
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 2: So were there human causes? Is it of interest? Because

1513
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 2: it's like human behavior, human landscape changes are leading to

1514
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 2: this collision. Because I could see that, then you'd be like, well,

1515
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 2: now we're forced to pay attention to it because we're

1516
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:44,200
Speaker 2: making it happen.

1517
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 6: So that's that's definitely a question so one of the

1518
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 6: issue on the Gulf Coast is eroding habitat. That's that's

1519
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 6: a thing, right. So the question is then, all right,

1520
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:58,480
Speaker 6: so is that eroding habitat causing decline, you know, survival

1521
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:02,240
Speaker 6: and fecundity, baby making and that's why we're seeing a

1522
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:03,759
Speaker 6: decline or are those birches leaving?

1523
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 2: Right?

1524
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 6: So that was.

1525
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,520
Speaker 2: They're losing X thousands of acres away?

1526
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:09,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, is it wetland food stuff?

1527
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 2: Both?

1528
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:13,719
Speaker 6: I mean, it's wetland and then it turns into food stuff.

1529
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:17,679
Speaker 6: So so, but what's interesting as I was driving around

1530
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:22,799
Speaker 6: West Texas is and noticing all these large, high fenced

1531
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 6: preserves that have really beautiful stock tanks and corn everywhere,

1532
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 6: and nobody there wants to shoot a mallard because they

1533
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:34,559
Speaker 6: got to shoot that Neil guy over there. So my

1534
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 6: hypothesis currently is they're both moving in because the habitats

1535
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:41,280
Speaker 6: actually there. It's man made, but it's there year round.

1536
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:44,000
Speaker 6: Nobody's shooting them, at least as far as we.

1537
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 2: Can tell, only a little bit. Oh no, oh, you know,

1538
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 2: he's doing it a little bit on the in the

1539
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 2: in the places with the nil guy and then the

1540
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:59,479
Speaker 2: beautiful ponds, and you're like my god, the ducks. Yep,

1541
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:02,520
Speaker 2: they'll now and then get some yeah.

1542
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, so and I.

1543
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 2: Walk around being like that is all I would do,

1544
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 2: so so.

1545
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I would.

1546
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 2: Uh you know.

1547
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 6: The funny thing is I contacted a bunch of landowners

1548
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,759
Speaker 6: and I went on some other podcasts asking for help,

1549
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 6: and I got contacts and but then like I was

1550
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 6: in Texas and then nobody, like, nobody like called me up.

1551
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 6: So I had an outfitter out there.

1552
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:26,560
Speaker 2: Uh, what part of Texas are you interested in? I

1553
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 2: could probably help you.

1554
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,920
Speaker 6: It's more or less all of West. We went from,

1555
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 6: like I said, Houston, Dallas area all the way to the.

1556
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 2: The so west of that is. I'm trying to figure

1557
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:40,040
Speaker 2: out West Texas. Yeah.

1558
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 6: So if you draw a line you know that way

1559
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 6: and all the way south like that triangle.

1560
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, well have you yeah, I feel like I know,

1561
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 2: Well we'll talk about later.

1562
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:50,559
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1563
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I know all kinds of people who'd

1564
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:53,639
Speaker 2: let you go out there and do it with your fill.

1565
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 6: Well they say yes, and then I'm like, I'm I'm

1566
01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 6: in your area, you know, calling them, and nobody's calling

1567
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 6: me back because they're like oh, And I told him

1568
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 6: I'd always be like look blinders on.

1569
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 7: Let me go to your pond.

1570
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 2: But what's that? What's the what's the Remember the guy

1571
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:09,440
Speaker 2: we had those dudes we had on about the oslots.

1572
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 13: Uh huh yeah, the c yeah name, I mean, yeah,

1573
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 13: this is gonna be my contribution to American science.

1574
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 2: I will find you a bunch of places to go

1575
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:23,799
Speaker 2: get your ducks.

1576
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 7: Well, yeah, that would be great because we have a

1577
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:26,719
Speaker 7: few more.

1578
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 6: We have a few counties that are pretty poorly uh

1579
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 6: sampled and uh and they're right like you know, we

1580
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 6: could shift that line of where the zone is potentially

1581
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 6: a few miles this way or a few miles that

1582
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:44,519
Speaker 6: way by getting them, and that would shift there.

1583
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 2: Do you like to be close to the Gulf coast though?

1584
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:52,679
Speaker 6: No, No, those are all model ducks, like you know. Yeah,

1585
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 6: we went from to be fair, we went from Louisiana

1586
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:58,479
Speaker 6: all the way across and it was model duck, model duck,

1587
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 6: model duck, model duck, and all all of a sudden,

1588
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:03,600
Speaker 6: this like new genetic variant which are which now we

1589
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 6: know are these hybrids and hybrids and then it goes

1590
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 6: Mexican duck. So it's this very clean, sort of interesting

1591
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 6: story that will be hopefully publishing soon and figuring that out.

1592
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,200
Speaker 2: You draw a picture of Texas and show me where

1593
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 2: you wish you could be.

1594
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 8: Where is that to.

1595
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 2: Draw the little corn kernels in the pond too? Yeah,

1596
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:32,679
Speaker 2: just like exactly, Okay, there's Texas. Let's do that.

1597
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 6: I think that whole area I think.

1598
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 7: As tip of Texas going north.

1599
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 2: Oh this way, wait, no, that way.

1600
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 7: There you go.

1601
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:56,519
Speaker 2: So Philip, you turned this camera, here's Texas. You know,

1602
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 2: you know everybody points us out. Do you know that

1603
01:23:59,280 --> 01:24:02,719
Speaker 2: you could fit EXAs, California and Molsta Montana into Alaska?

1604
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 7: Is that amazing?

1605
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 2: I don't mean to masculate you Texans, but especially when

1606
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:08,800
Speaker 2: I'm trying to hit you up. If You're in this

1607
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 2: little honey hole and you got one of them sweet

1608
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:19,040
Speaker 2: ponds called doctor Phil, called doctor Phil, doctor Phill, He's

1609
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 2: gonna be like, homet what the other doctor Phil.

1610
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:24,640
Speaker 4: You can also write the meat Eater podcast at the

1611
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 4: meat Eater Doctor and.

1612
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 2: Have the subject line be fowling piece. Yeah, sure know

1613
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 2: what you're talking about.

1614
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1615
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,839
Speaker 6: So that's that was a long way of showing how

1616
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 6: where genetics has come into play. I mean, you gotta

1617
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:44,680
Speaker 6: understand ten years ago I would go into a conference, uh,

1618
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 6: it's it's called the North American Duck Symposium called Ducks nads. Yeah,

1619
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:53,960
Speaker 6: I didn't want to Yeah, it really is.

1620
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:57,799
Speaker 7: It's called Ducks now, okay, Ducks nine?

1621
01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:02,000
Speaker 2: Is it North American Duck Society your cops?

1622
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:05,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm aware, I'm aware.

1623
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 2: And is that like? Are they they they recognize that

1624
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 2: that's funny or.

1625
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 6: No, it's no longer funny.

1626
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 2: They made it unfunny. Well, yeah, the joke war.

1627
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 6: Off, the joke war off eight eight eight conferences in

1628
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:21,480
Speaker 6: a Yeah, so it's gonna be in Portland in February.

1629
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:24,479
Speaker 7: Should come anyways. Uh yeah.

1630
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 6: So you know some of the first ones that I

1631
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 6: would go to ID be like, oh, there's that geneticis

1632
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:34,960
Speaker 6: that weird geneticist dude? Because they just didn't see the

1633
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 6: like what it couldn't do? What what that data can provide?

1634
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 6: You know, there's so many studies out there, right, So

1635
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:45,040
Speaker 6: you're handling all these mallards and you're putting bands on them,

1636
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 6: you're putting telemetry units, and a bird that stays in

1637
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:52,519
Speaker 6: an urban setting versus a bird that does migration, You'll

1638
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:55,040
Speaker 6: be like, oh, maybe that's just part of their population

1639
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 6: and their history. And genetics allows you to go in

1640
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 6: and be like, oh, that one's a faral mallard and

1641
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,720
Speaker 6: that one was a wild mallard. You're starting to have

1642
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 6: a better and a true foundation to what you're actually asking,

1643
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 6: so your your future questions will be less biased.

1644
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:16,080
Speaker 2: You know, before we get into the mallard thing, do

1645
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:18,599
Speaker 2: you remember, Brady Matt, Do you guys remember when there

1646
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 2: used to be on twenty seven kinds of Canada geese

1647
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden one day they're like, nope,

1648
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:28,200
Speaker 2: there's three. Like what is the popular number now? Seven?

1649
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:31,599
Speaker 2: Eleven to eleven? So there used to be ridiculous numbers there.

1650
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 7: Think eleven's pretty pretty commonly agreed on, right.

1651
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 6: Okay, that came from you folks. That came from me, folks,

1652
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,000
Speaker 6: That came from your No, that's not true. You had

1653
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 6: this discussion with Cornell, I believe. So we folks provide

1654
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 6: data and we're like, look at how different these things are.

1655
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 6: And then there's the American Ornithological Union. Here, there's the

1656
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:56,680
Speaker 6: British Ornithological Union. Every country has their own unions, and

1657
01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 6: then they use that data to say should.

1658
01:26:58,720 --> 01:26:59,560
Speaker 7: They be species?

1659
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,839
Speaker 6: So they're the taxonomists that make the decisions.

1660
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 2: So they're looking at what you're looking for them.

1661
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 6: So the Mexican duck when this was a good example.

1662
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:11,720
Speaker 6: Mexican duck was full species when it was first identified

1663
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 6: in like eighteen ninety something. Then everybody's like, oh no,

1664
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 6: there's lots of hybridization in the sixties, so they bumped

1665
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:23,240
Speaker 6: it down to a subspecies of the mallard hybridsation with

1666
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:27,720
Speaker 6: mallards was the problem. And then years later I came

1667
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:30,679
Speaker 6: along and I started to use some of this latest

1668
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 6: and greatest genetic genomic techniques and actually found out that oh,

1669
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:37,720
Speaker 6: all of these things that you thought were hybrids are

1670
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:43,759
Speaker 6: actually juvenile or first year males, and they naturally express

1671
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 6: Mallard traits because it's still in their genetics, but they're

1672
01:27:47,800 --> 01:27:51,080
Speaker 6: not hybrids. And there's lots and then we found lots

1673
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:54,720
Speaker 6: of unique genetic signatures that are tied with the desert lifestyle.

1674
01:27:55,320 --> 01:28:00,080
Speaker 6: And so AOU American Ornithological Union used that information and

1675
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:04,400
Speaker 6: then re elevate them in twenty twenty twenty back to

1676
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:05,080
Speaker 6: full species.

1677
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 7: Only recently so they.

1678
01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:07,599
Speaker 2: Got bumped back to be in their own.

1679
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:08,960
Speaker 7: Their own full species.

1680
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:11,600
Speaker 6: So if you've got you know, the slam going, you

1681
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,320
Speaker 6: gotta gotta come back when you one.

1682
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 7: Is that what it is now?

1683
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:18,639
Speaker 2: For forty one Mexican ducks.

1684
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 7: Is the newest?

1685
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so is it forty two?

1686
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 7: I think it's forty two. I'm gonna say it's fully

1687
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 7: How close to you guys?

1688
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 3: I mean I was like eight off here for a while.

1689
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:28,639
Speaker 2: You're eight off.

1690
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1691
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:32,720
Speaker 2: Have you told you've got so You've gotten all I need?

1692
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:35,280
Speaker 3: Like my model ducks and tree ducks and that that

1693
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:37,719
Speaker 3: weird stuff in the South. You know he's talking.

1694
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 2: About, huh, did you get them all stuffed?

1695
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:43,040
Speaker 3: But like, no, I don't have them all stuff I

1696
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:44,920
Speaker 3: wish I did. I wish I would have done it,

1697
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,280
Speaker 3: kind of like our our friend down the road, Mark Pierce.

1698
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 3: You know, he's got them all like flying in the

1699
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 3: same direction. It's like one big flaw. I would have

1700
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 3: loved to have started that.

1701
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:54,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I always think, like I've gotten a lot

1702
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 2: of stuff over the years, is whatever and not going

1703
01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 2: there like no, I haven't.

1704
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:02,320
Speaker 3: No, Well, just tough. I mean, you know, back when

1705
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 3: we were really shooting him. You know, even when I

1706
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,280
Speaker 3: went to Alaska, I was there on a on a

1707
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:09,960
Speaker 3: photo shoot and I got to hunt a king Eider

1708
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 3: and I shot the you know, the male and the

1709
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:15,680
Speaker 3: female and shot some scooters and stuff like that. But shit, man,

1710
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 3: I couldn't afford to stuff everything like you can't. You know,

1711
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 3: it's expensive to do it, you know, four or five

1712
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,479
Speaker 3: hundred bucks apiece to do it right, and it's.

1713
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 2: More than you got paid for the photo shoot. Yeah, no, kid, deficits.

1714
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:36,360
Speaker 2: So years ago, we were out in uh the east Shore,

1715
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 2: Chesapeake Bay, and we're driving down the road and we're

1716
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:42,960
Speaker 2: going over a bridge, okay, and I look and it's

1717
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:46,400
Speaker 2: just like I even comment on to my friend because

1718
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:48,960
Speaker 2: it's duck season. I knew it was duck season. And

1719
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:51,240
Speaker 2: we go over bridge and there's Maillard sitting. That just

1720
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:55,240
Speaker 2: didn't seem right. And I even said to him, like

1721
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 2: I cannot believe that, you know, just like how they

1722
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 2: were sort of achi buying this slew and it's proximity.

1723
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:06,799
Speaker 2: I even comment like that just seems weird those mallards

1724
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 2: be doing that right in the middle of the duck season.

1725
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 2: It was yeah, and he goes, well, how much time

1726
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 2: you got, you know, and it was and I had

1727
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:16,800
Speaker 2: I didn't know that this was I didn't know that

1728
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:19,080
Speaker 2: it went on that like the same way you do

1729
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 2: pheasants where you just like let pheasants out. I had

1730
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 2: no idea, yeah, that there is a thing of releasing

1731
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 2: pen raised mallards. And the reason I thought, like, the

1732
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:37,240
Speaker 2: reason I thought was because pheasants, you know, peasants are

1733
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:40,479
Speaker 2: non native, and I thought it was that one of

1734
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:43,559
Speaker 2: the reasons they're so widely released like that is because

1735
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 2: it's a non native. Anyways, you're not upsetting any kind

1736
01:30:47,240 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 2: of wild bird population.

1737
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:52,559
Speaker 7: At least as far as we think.

1738
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,320
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, at least as far as I thought. Maybe

1739
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 2: you're can tell me otherwise. And so it just winds

1740
01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:00,679
Speaker 2: up being like, here's a species that is out there.

1741
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:03,320
Speaker 2: They require a lot of human assistance. If you want

1742
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 2: to supplement with pen raised birds. Knock yourself out, like

1743
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:09,720
Speaker 2: you're not interfering with anything. But the fact that you

1744
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 2: could let mallards go is really surprised me. But then

1745
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:15,639
Speaker 2: I've learned since then it is somewhat a widespread practice. Yeah,

1746
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 2: And they appoint and he said, when like this used

1747
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 2: to be, Chesapeake Bay was sort of, you know, in

1748
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:26,639
Speaker 2: some ways kind of like like the birthplace of American

1749
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 2: duck hunting, and as bird numbers declined, it just became

1750
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:39,720
Speaker 2: a they artificially inflated numbers to maintain that. And what

1751
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:41,639
Speaker 2: you're driving by is these hunt clubs and they have

1752
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:44,360
Speaker 2: mallards that are just hanging around in a way that

1753
01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:46,640
Speaker 2: just seems makes them seem like they don't quite know

1754
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:51,040
Speaker 2: what's going on, you know, And you've spent some time on.

1755
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 7: This, now, sure did? Is that the segue?

1756
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:56,840
Speaker 2: That's a segue, that's a good setd Yeah.

1757
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 6: So yes, so in a nutshell, that's that's more or

1758
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 6: less what happened. But we've I've sort of reconstructed exactly

1759
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:08,240
Speaker 6: what what potentially happened. So if nobody here knows this,

1760
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 6: the mallard is the wolf of all domestic ducks, right,

1761
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:15,559
Speaker 6: So like the wolf is of the.

1762
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:18,479
Speaker 7: Dog, the mallard is that.

1763
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:22,479
Speaker 6: To all domestic ducks. He lost all right, so peaking duck?

1764
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 6: Oh yeah yeah really Yeah.

1765
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:29,760
Speaker 2: They pulled all the domestics off of.

1766
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,600
Speaker 6: Mallards, just like you could get a chihuahua off of

1767
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:33,120
Speaker 6: a wolf.

1768
01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:37,560
Speaker 2: Okay, this is interesting because I was you know, uh,

1769
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:39,640
Speaker 2: what we pulled cattle from.

1770
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:43,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, they're trying to bring it is gone.

1771
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:45,920
Speaker 2: What we pulled the pig from is still around, Yeah,

1772
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:49,560
Speaker 2: sus scraff what we pulled sheep from I believe is

1773
01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 2: still around.

1774
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 6: I think so that was out of what uh, Saudi Arabia, Arabia,

1775
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 6: Northern Africa. That would have been red cheap I think.

1776
01:32:57,439 --> 01:33:00,960
Speaker 2: Is the ancestral one on what we pulled the horse

1777
01:33:01,040 --> 01:33:02,280
Speaker 2: from is I think gone.

1778
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:07,839
Speaker 6: So they so revive and restore recently cloned the second

1779
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:10,559
Speaker 6: I'm gonna say this wrong, Piswick.

1780
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like the foundation species. Yeah yeah, yeah, so

1781
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 2: I had no idea the mallard.

1782
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:16,800
Speaker 6: The mallard is.

1783
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:19,759
Speaker 2: The duck that created that. They pulled all the domestics.

1784
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:23,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they were one of the last successful domestication

1785
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:27,719
Speaker 6: events about five thousand years ago. So there's only two,

1786
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:30,760
Speaker 6: well three the goose sort of, but the only other

1787
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:34,360
Speaker 6: good domestication was in South America with the Muscovis. They

1788
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:37,880
Speaker 6: kind of just looked like that's how you say, that's

1789
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 6: all Yeah, either way either acceptable.

1790
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:45,120
Speaker 7: In my book. Yeah.

1791
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:48,559
Speaker 6: So so the mallard, you know, there's good writings about

1792
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:50,760
Speaker 6: the Ming dynasty was one of the first ones to

1793
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:57,000
Speaker 6: start domestication, domesticating the process of domestication of of of mallards,

1794
01:33:57,400 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 6: and that was for food, right, make them fatter, fat

1795
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:04,519
Speaker 6: making more eggs these types of things now five thousand

1796
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:09,599
Speaker 6: years ago about yeah, and now again. Domestication is a process,

1797
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:13,160
Speaker 6: so it ebbs and flows, happens all over the once

1798
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 6: it started, then those things get transitioned, just kind of

1799
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:23,160
Speaker 6: like labs made themselves. You know, there's English labs, American labs.

1800
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 6: There's all sorts of stuff anyway. So sixteen thirty one

1801
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:32,599
Speaker 6: is the first writing from King Charles, the second asking

1802
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:35,759
Speaker 6: his squires to go, Now, I just add the squire's

1803
01:34:35,800 --> 01:34:39,720
Speaker 6: part to add, but to go get mallard eggs for

1804
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:43,600
Speaker 6: the purpose of raising and releasing for hunting purposes.

1805
01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:45,879
Speaker 2: So he was a sixteen thirty one.

1806
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:46,599
Speaker 7: Sixteen thirty one.

1807
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:50,800
Speaker 6: The name game farm Mallard was first, as far as

1808
01:34:50,840 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 6: I know, recorded in eighteen nineties in England by people

1809
01:34:56,280 --> 01:34:59,120
Speaker 6: ringing them and calling them game farm Mallard. I'm going

1810
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:01,840
Speaker 6: to refer to this thing called a game farm Mallard.

1811
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:04,240
Speaker 6: But all it really is is a domestic variant, right.

1812
01:35:04,280 --> 01:35:07,599
Speaker 6: It's a name, just like a lab or chihuahua or whatever.

1813
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:12,479
Speaker 6: Beagle is a name, pekin, duck rowan duck, runners call ducks.

1814
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:16,040
Speaker 6: All these things have names, right, So this thing is

1815
01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:19,920
Speaker 6: called a game farm mallard because it was farmed for

1816
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:23,240
Speaker 6: for gaminess. So what they were, what they were interested

1817
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:26,519
Speaker 6: where people were interested in Europe primarily at the time,

1818
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:31,719
Speaker 6: was to make something you know, flightier, something that flies faster,

1819
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:35,599
Speaker 6: is you know, sportier and that.

1820
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 7: Then I don't know.

1821
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:40,400
Speaker 6: Then whatever was around just just like a pheasant shoot,

1822
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 6: but with with ducks, right, they're flying more erratic, more

1823
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:45,760
Speaker 6: like a make a a.

1824
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:49,320
Speaker 7: Mallard fly like a wigeon.

1825
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:53,720
Speaker 2: Oh okay, the objective the same way a pigeon fancier. Yeah,

1826
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:55,960
Speaker 2: wants to make pigeons that have all these crazy colors.

1827
01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 2: They were like, breed me outright, we want to make

1828
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:01,840
Speaker 2: this hard. We're crazy flying.

1829
01:36:02,120 --> 01:36:04,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, all right, So now let's move forward to America.

1830
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:11,200
Speaker 2: You know one second, Yeah, did they do what did

1831
01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:13,120
Speaker 2: they in Europe? Did they do the tower? Is that

1832
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:14,280
Speaker 2: what they're doing? Tower shoots?

1833
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:19,120
Speaker 6: They do both they do so currently how bad I

1834
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:23,280
Speaker 6: guess bad is relative? I think is bad. So they

1835
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:27,320
Speaker 6: do tower shoots, but they also released right before the season,

1836
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:30,640
Speaker 6: France releases three million of these things to have a

1837
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 6: fall flight. Now, wow, no, that was last year's numbers.

1838
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:35,639
Speaker 3: I think that's a staggering number.

1839
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:39,080
Speaker 2: France cuts loose three million mallards.

1840
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:41,640
Speaker 7: Something like that, like game farm mallady, game farm mallards.

1841
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,719
Speaker 6: Things that you breed and you release right before the season,

1842
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 6: just like you would release pheasants, you know, before Thanksgiving, youth, Christmas.

1843
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:53,799
Speaker 2: Maybe. Yeah, well it was another important distinction between pheasants

1844
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:56,840
Speaker 2: those like the gall of forms. You like that word?

1845
01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:59,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, I like it.

1846
01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:00,960
Speaker 2: That was that was a you a question, that meaning

1847
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:03,000
Speaker 2: your trivia that I got right not too long ago.

1848
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:06,240
Speaker 2: One of the deaf defining features of the Galli forms

1849
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:08,439
Speaker 2: is they don't really go anywhere. Correct, that's a small

1850
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:10,360
Speaker 2: home range. When you caught a mallet, Loo says, some

1851
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:11,200
Speaker 2: bitch takes off.

1852
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:16,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, so so dogmatically, wait, can we go to America?

1853
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:17,160
Speaker 2: Now?

1854
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:21,320
Speaker 6: Oh right, okay, all right, so so you're right. So

1855
01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:24,960
Speaker 6: the gunning years of the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds,

1856
01:37:25,400 --> 01:37:30,960
Speaker 6: you know, market hunting was spelled demise for all our

1857
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:35,280
Speaker 6: bird populations, including passenger pigeon eventually going extinct, heath hen

1858
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 6: going extinct for now.

1859
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 2: Oh we held one of those. Ah yeah, Krin they

1860
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:43,719
Speaker 2: head in that drawer. I'm talking about the extinct drawer.

1861
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:45,680
Speaker 2: I don't think they had the dog. I think they

1862
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:48,919
Speaker 2: had the it was ivory bills, passengers and heath.

1863
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:51,440
Speaker 8: Hen Okay, in the special, I don't totally.

1864
01:37:51,160 --> 01:37:51,760
Speaker 2: Right by the door.

1865
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:56,320
Speaker 6: I will note that my contribution so far is to

1866
01:37:56,439 --> 01:37:59,720
Speaker 6: reviving her stories so far, just suggesting we should bring

1867
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 6: back labrador duck. Yeah, but I said I would get

1868
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:03,800
Speaker 6: the first tag.

1869
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:07,320
Speaker 7: Anyways.

1870
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 6: Okay, so we are we are gunning year's population crashes,

1871
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:18,280
Speaker 6: and so what did folks do? There's two things that

1872
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:21,599
Speaker 6: are occurring. So if you don't know this, east of

1873
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:26,639
Speaker 6: the Mississippi River was boreal forest, right and the duck

1874
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 6: mallards were were vagrants, which means we're going.

1875
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:35,040
Speaker 2: Back to the Mississippi. Wasn't boreal forest during the place

1876
01:38:35,080 --> 01:38:35,519
Speaker 2: to scene?

1877
01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:39,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're going there because we have we have a

1878
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:43,960
Speaker 6: very good distinction here. The east of the Mississippi before

1879
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:48,920
Speaker 6: humans started cutting things down was mostly boreal forests and

1880
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:51,920
Speaker 6: the ecological replacement, which means the thing that is better

1881
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:54,800
Speaker 6: than the other thing to the mallard in that area

1882
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:56,960
Speaker 6: was the American black duck. That is the reason it

1883
01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:59,720
Speaker 6: is completely dark, both males and females, because you could

1884
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,920
Speaker 6: think of boreal forest an aerial predator going overhead. The

1885
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:06,240
Speaker 6: selection pressure isn't to look fancy to the female because

1886
01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:08,960
Speaker 6: you're getting picked off. So now males and females have

1887
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 6: to look the same, all right, So it's about your

1888
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:15,720
Speaker 6: black ducks. Very few mallards. So mallards tended to go

1889
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:19,720
Speaker 6: still go into the southeast Atlantic flyways to the eastern seaboard.

1890
01:39:19,880 --> 01:39:23,720
Speaker 6: But the northeast it was vagrant like a cinnamon teal right,

1891
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:26,799
Speaker 6: So you didn't you didn't shoot mallards there. But of course,

1892
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:30,120
Speaker 6: so now let's fast forward to nineteen twenty. Ish duck

1893
01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:33,000
Speaker 6: numbers are down. People are like, all right, what do

1894
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:35,880
Speaker 6: we do about these numbers? But also that area was like,

1895
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:37,600
Speaker 6: we want to shoot mallards.

1896
01:39:37,120 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 2: Too, all right, So cause mallard is king there.

1897
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 6: It is, big greenhead, big greenhead.

1898
01:39:43,640 --> 01:39:44,400
Speaker 7: Same thing.

1899
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:47,920
Speaker 6: Did you know, do everybody see the story of the Hunter?

1900
01:39:48,560 --> 01:39:52,080
Speaker 6: I think she was a thousand years old in Nova Scotia.

1901
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:56,440
Speaker 6: Last last meal mallard.

1902
01:39:56,160 --> 01:39:59,960
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, chestnuts, chestnuts and mallard yea chestnut.

1903
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:02,080
Speaker 6: The mad So we've been doing this for a while.

1904
01:40:02,160 --> 01:40:03,280
Speaker 6: Everybody loves mallards.

1905
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 2: She was what else had she had she been eating?

1906
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:08,880
Speaker 6: Well, she also had a lot of diseases. I remember

1907
01:40:08,960 --> 01:40:09,960
Speaker 6: seeing all Yeah.

1908
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:12,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think her last they were saying her diet

1909
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:16,479
Speaker 2: was I don't remember. I remember the chestnuts and Mallardy

1910
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:18,040
Speaker 2: went out on a high.

1911
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, pretty much anyway.

1912
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:26,920
Speaker 6: So so, uh so, folks first tried to start breeding

1913
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:30,000
Speaker 6: programs with our wild birds mallards and black ducks. They

1914
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:32,600
Speaker 6: didn't take because it's their wild It takes time for

1915
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:35,160
Speaker 6: them to be like, Okay, I'm going to not stress out,

1916
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:37,240
Speaker 6: I'm going to make eggs, all these types of things.

1917
01:40:38,160 --> 01:40:41,519
Speaker 6: So that failed. But somebody must have known that the

1918
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:43,760
Speaker 6: Europeans already got this right, you know.

1919
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:46,479
Speaker 2: Can I let me ask you extra detail about this

1920
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:49,640
Speaker 2: because you just said something that's interesting. They found the

1921
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:57,400
Speaker 2: opposite with turkeys that which which one Well, when they

1922
01:40:57,400 --> 01:41:00,280
Speaker 2: started trying to repopulate turkeys.

1923
01:41:00,280 --> 01:41:02,800
Speaker 6: The out of Pa, those last turkeys.

1924
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:04,439
Speaker 2: Well everywhere they I mean they recover turkey's are old

1925
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:06,679
Speaker 2: damn place. But what they found initially they were trying

1926
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:10,759
Speaker 2: to use captive bread yeah birds.

1927
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1928
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:14,639
Speaker 2: The captive bread birds wouldn't take. Yeah, And then they

1929
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 2: eventually came to the conclusion they had to use wild

1930
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:20,960
Speaker 2: bread birds correct to distribute them around. So you saying

1931
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:26,920
Speaker 2: that that they had an opposite experience with ducks.

1932
01:41:27,479 --> 01:41:30,640
Speaker 6: It's the no, because that the point of that was

1933
01:41:30,720 --> 01:41:34,960
Speaker 6: actually establishing populations. Currently they just want to make ducks, right,

1934
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:38,280
Speaker 6: So those are two different h wants.

1935
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:42,200
Speaker 2: Right, So, oh, they're recovering something, they're trying to get

1936
01:41:42,200 --> 01:41:43,800
Speaker 2: something going exactly, I got it.

1937
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:46,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, all right, so they went So someone must have

1938
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 6: known that the Europeans like figured this out and brought

1939
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:52,559
Speaker 6: game farm mallards here and I'll explain how I figure

1940
01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:55,599
Speaker 6: that out. But so they started propagating them, and from

1941
01:41:55,600 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 6: about nineteen twenty nineteen sixty they released about half a

1942
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:02,280
Speaker 6: million of these things just on the Eastern seaboard every year,

1943
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 6: and then nineteen sixty to today is about two hundred

1944
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 6: and fifty thousand to our best estimates, but my guess

1945
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:09,880
Speaker 6: is way more than that.

1946
01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:13,679
Speaker 2: So these games getting released, still getting released, and still

1947
01:42:13,880 --> 01:42:17,480
Speaker 2: of the progeny of these European birds. Yep.

1948
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:18,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1949
01:42:18,280 --> 01:42:21,840
Speaker 11: So so is this the state doing this or is

1950
01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:23,759
Speaker 11: this just like private currently?

1951
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:27,160
Speaker 6: It's private. When it first started, it was state fed private.

1952
01:42:27,160 --> 01:42:29,880
Speaker 6: Everybody was trying to raise them. In fact, more game

1953
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:30,839
Speaker 6: birds for America.

1954
01:42:30,880 --> 01:42:31,920
Speaker 7: Do you know who they became?

1955
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:37,799
Speaker 2: Anybody du had no idea the trivia?

1956
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:43,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, do you know who James Ford Bell started which

1957
01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:46,880
Speaker 6: other one Delta Waterfall. Yeah, so they both initially wanted

1958
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:51,479
Speaker 6: to do game farm mallards too and hot Yeah, Delta

1959
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:55,520
Speaker 6: Waterfowl had a hole their first thing in the Delta marshes.

1960
01:42:55,600 --> 01:42:59,160
Speaker 6: What year, what was nineteen thirty? They were still trying

1961
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:05,439
Speaker 6: this nineteen anyway, So they but they showed that the

1962
01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:09,280
Speaker 6: that they but their premise was make ducks that actually

1963
01:43:09,320 --> 01:43:13,080
Speaker 6: make more ducks in the wild, and Delta saw that

1964
01:43:13,080 --> 01:43:16,880
Speaker 6: that was a failing venture because they didn't survive long enough,

1965
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:18,200
Speaker 6: didn't make the same because they.

1966
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:22,439
Speaker 2: Take these European ducks, these European mallards, cut them loose,

1967
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:26,120
Speaker 2: and then the next year just no successful reproduction. Yeah

1968
01:43:26,120 --> 01:43:30,080
Speaker 2: you're going over again, correct. Yeah, they never took off.

1969
01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:32,920
Speaker 6: So the dogma since then of why we continue to

1970
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:36,559
Speaker 6: release them is that they are some Oh the other

1971
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:39,360
Speaker 6: fun fact is everybody tells me that, oh, well, they're

1972
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:43,120
Speaker 6: born here, they can like smell their way here, and

1973
01:43:43,160 --> 01:43:45,120
Speaker 6: so they don't leave here. It's like their house no

1974
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:48,080
Speaker 6: matter what. And if they do leave, they die, and

1975
01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:50,360
Speaker 6: if they don't die, they definitely don't breathe. That's the

1976
01:43:50,479 --> 01:43:53,680
Speaker 6: dogma that I was under, including when I was in

1977
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:56,639
Speaker 6: school in uh UC Davis. I was I was learning

1978
01:43:56,680 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 6: about this.

1979
01:43:57,479 --> 01:43:58,880
Speaker 2: Can you tell me? Can you tell me that again?

1980
01:43:59,160 --> 01:43:59,719
Speaker 2: The dogma.

1981
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:02,599
Speaker 6: The dogma was that it's okay to release these things

1982
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:07,000
Speaker 6: sort of like pheasants, like look, winter's gonna come, the

1983
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:08,559
Speaker 6: coyotes are going to get.

1984
01:44:08,360 --> 01:44:09,880
Speaker 7: Them, like nobody's gonna survive.

1985
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:13,439
Speaker 6: Right, So the dogma was these things are trained quote

1986
01:44:13,520 --> 01:44:17,280
Speaker 6: unquote if you can't see them, uh, to to stay

1987
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:20,200
Speaker 6: on the wetland that they're you know, made, and.

1988
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:24,600
Speaker 2: That would so that would help, and that that posturing

1989
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:28,800
Speaker 2: or that belief alleviated concerns that you're gonna let this

1990
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:32,640
Speaker 2: sort of like global Pandora's box out by taking this

1991
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:35,280
Speaker 2: animal and it flies and all around the world and

1992
01:44:35,400 --> 01:44:37,360
Speaker 2: spreads itself every correct. Yeah.

1993
01:44:37,680 --> 01:44:42,280
Speaker 6: So so that happened for one hundred years, and I

1994
01:44:42,439 --> 01:44:45,720
Speaker 6: was studying American black ducks and mallard So if you

1995
01:44:45,720 --> 01:44:49,120
Speaker 6: don't know this American black duck again very close relative

1996
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:53,200
Speaker 6: sister species or relative to the to the mallard in

1997
01:44:53,240 --> 01:44:56,160
Speaker 6: fact off the Mallard tree. It was a mallard in

1998
01:44:56,240 --> 01:45:00,839
Speaker 6: North America and then evolved adapted to boreal forests and

1999
01:45:01,479 --> 01:45:03,880
Speaker 6: over the last half million years turned into what we

2000
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 6: now considered the American black.

2001
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:09,479
Speaker 2: Can you tell uh us have such little experience of

2002
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:11,840
Speaker 2: black dogs? Can can you tell the hens from the

2003
01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 2: drakes by looking at them?

2004
01:45:12,960 --> 01:45:14,120
Speaker 7: Yeah?

2005
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:19,519
Speaker 2: It's tough fight. It's hard. No, greenhead obviously, No, it's

2006
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:23,439
Speaker 2: you have to what is this? What are you looking at? Bill? Bill? Yeah?

2007
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:25,599
Speaker 2: And only thing. That's the only thing.

2008
01:45:25,760 --> 01:45:27,599
Speaker 7: And can't you look at the speculum too?

2009
01:45:30,520 --> 01:45:33,599
Speaker 6: You can, But they're not supposed to have a white

2010
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:39,320
Speaker 6: wing bar, so the white hybrid in between. Okay, that's

2011
01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:39,960
Speaker 6: that's what I know.

2012
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:40,400
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2013
01:45:40,479 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 6: No, and and your and your thought process was correct

2014
01:45:43,160 --> 01:45:45,719
Speaker 6: us fish and wildlife. So this is part of this study.

2015
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:48,240
Speaker 6: We were saying, like, okay, so we're at this wing

2016
01:45:48,320 --> 01:45:51,120
Speaker 6: b where all these things, and you know, professionals are

2017
01:45:51,120 --> 01:45:54,760
Speaker 6: calling Mallard black duck hybrid. You know, based on those

2018
01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:57,000
Speaker 6: characteristics you have the amount of white on them and

2019
01:45:57,040 --> 01:45:59,360
Speaker 6: all this other stuff. So we did the genetics on them,

2020
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:02,640
Speaker 6: and one of the things management and implication. They are

2021
01:46:02,680 --> 01:46:07,320
Speaker 6: only sixty percent accurate at calling hybrids from either parental

2022
01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:09,639
Speaker 6: the other percents where there should have been black ducks

2023
01:46:09,720 --> 01:46:11,880
Speaker 6: or mallards, and on the Mallard and black ducks side,

2024
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:14,839
Speaker 6: twenty percent of those should have been on the hybrid.

2025
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:17,800
Speaker 6: So those numbers are going into our models right, potentially

2026
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:21,120
Speaker 6: causing issues and survival estimates for coundity estimates and so forth.

2027
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:23,040
Speaker 2: You know, this is starting to sound like is when

2028
01:46:23,080 --> 01:46:25,120
Speaker 2: you show people the deer's teeth and they tell you

2029
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:29,000
Speaker 2: how old it is. Yeah, work without cutting into it.

2030
01:46:29,080 --> 01:46:30,679
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, it being.

2031
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:34,520
Speaker 7: Like that's a maybe that's year old buff Yeah exactly.

2032
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:38,360
Speaker 6: Anyway, So but within that study, I started picking up

2033
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:43,920
Speaker 6: this genetic signature that didn't that wasn't black duck, and

2034
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:47,920
Speaker 6: it wasn't Western Mallard. So west by Western Mallard, I

2035
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:52,120
Speaker 6: mean west of the Mississippi River, west of the Mississippi River,

2036
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:55,280
Speaker 6: they're all this one genetic cluster. And then as you

2037
01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:59,280
Speaker 6: go east, this secondary genetic cluster that is mixed with

2038
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:03,720
Speaker 6: the western Genei cluster started to come in.

2039
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:05,600
Speaker 7: Higher and higher abundance.

2040
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:09,160
Speaker 6: And when we looked at black duck hybrids, they tended

2041
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:12,840
Speaker 6: to backcross with this other genetic signature. So that was

2042
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:16,519
Speaker 6: twenty nineteen. I knew the story of this game farm releases,

2043
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:19,160
Speaker 6: and of course dogmatically I was like I shouldn't look

2044
01:47:19,160 --> 01:47:21,439
Speaker 6: at that, like that's that's not a thing.

2045
01:47:21,520 --> 01:47:23,200
Speaker 2: They don't go anywhere that I don't go anywhere.

2046
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:26,280
Speaker 6: And I saw that, I'm like, no way. So but

2047
01:47:26,360 --> 01:47:30,479
Speaker 6: to you know, prove to the scientific community, and I

2048
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:32,920
Speaker 6: had to go and get known game farm mallards. So

2049
01:47:33,320 --> 01:47:36,400
Speaker 6: I actually sent my wife to New Jersey and a

2050
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:41,240
Speaker 6: couple other places and we collected we collected known game

2051
01:47:41,240 --> 01:47:42,080
Speaker 6: far mallage.

2052
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:42,719
Speaker 7: From some of these preserves.

2053
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:43,639
Speaker 2: How did she get them?

2054
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:44,479
Speaker 7: She shot him.

2055
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:46,840
Speaker 2: You sent her out as a client.

2056
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 3: Unreally undercover undercover client heard.

2057
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:55,120
Speaker 7: These stories before I knew where this story was about

2058
01:47:55,160 --> 01:47:55,400
Speaker 7: to go.

2059
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:57,920
Speaker 2: So you sent your wife to masquerade as a client

2060
01:47:57,960 --> 01:47:58,960
Speaker 2: to bring you the ducks.

2061
01:47:59,080 --> 01:48:01,120
Speaker 6: Well, on top of it, though, she was also giving

2062
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:04,000
Speaker 6: me information of where these birds that she didn't didn't

2063
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:07,160
Speaker 6: just come to the pond go And they all they

2064
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:09,720
Speaker 6: all went to this location. And when I immediately in real

2065
01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:12,200
Speaker 6: time Google mapped where they were going, they're all going

2066
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:14,280
Speaker 6: to a wildlife refuge.

2067
01:48:14,439 --> 01:48:15,160
Speaker 2: You're kidding me?

2068
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:17,840
Speaker 6: So they know where they're going, gods.

2069
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:21,040
Speaker 2: Like an undercover component. Yeah, yeah, this is dark. I

2070
01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:22,040
Speaker 2: like a jehan.

2071
01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:27,360
Speaker 6: Lecar So now those ys, So now we're back to Jersey,

2072
01:48:28,040 --> 01:48:29,080
Speaker 6: they're probably about.

2073
01:48:28,880 --> 01:48:29,439
Speaker 7: To go kill me.

2074
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:33,439
Speaker 6: So so all right, So we had that, we had

2075
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:36,600
Speaker 6: known game farm, right, and then on top of it,

2076
01:48:36,640 --> 01:48:39,400
Speaker 6: I'm like, well, there's park ducks everywhere. And the nice

2077
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:42,960
Speaker 6: thing is we were banding Mexican ducks and alongside them

2078
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:45,439
Speaker 6: there were there were Khaki Campbell's, which is a different

2079
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:49,439
Speaker 6: variant of mallard. So we had those, so they are

2080
01:48:49,479 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 6: were our proxy other park duck domestic thing, right, So

2081
01:48:53,439 --> 01:48:56,880
Speaker 6: if this genetic signature was park duck, we would be

2082
01:48:56,880 --> 01:48:58,960
Speaker 6: able to tell that, or if it was game farm,

2083
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:00,559
Speaker 6: we would be able to tell that. As we had that,

2084
01:49:01,200 --> 01:49:03,960
Speaker 6: But I also knew that people were gonna be like, well,

2085
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:07,519
Speaker 6: maybe Eastern mallards were always genetically different. So that's when

2086
01:49:07,560 --> 01:49:10,880
Speaker 6: I went to the Smithsonian and picked up bird mallards

2087
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:14,360
Speaker 6: harvested from eighteen sixty to nineteen fifteen, so before all

2088
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:18,360
Speaker 6: those releases. So I want to thank all hunters now,

2089
01:49:18,600 --> 01:49:23,240
Speaker 6: from before and today that were depositing birds into museum collections.

2090
01:49:24,160 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 6: Natural hunting is conservation, and so we got genetics off

2091
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:35,439
Speaker 6: of those birds, and so we compare everybody. First thing

2092
01:49:35,960 --> 01:49:39,400
Speaker 6: that other genetic signature game far mallard. I was like,

2093
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:42,080
Speaker 6: all right, so we know that, but were they always

2094
01:49:42,200 --> 01:49:42,439
Speaker 6: like that?

2095
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:42,960
Speaker 2: No?

2096
01:49:43,520 --> 01:49:46,880
Speaker 6: They were the genetic signature of a mallard one hundred

2097
01:49:46,880 --> 01:49:49,360
Speaker 6: and fifty year old mallard was that which you have

2098
01:49:49,439 --> 01:49:54,479
Speaker 6: here in Montana in the prairies, so for now, and

2099
01:49:55,960 --> 01:49:59,960
Speaker 6: this other genetic signature was causing that the eastern mala

2100
01:50:00,280 --> 01:50:04,840
Speaker 6: to be completely different than what is western mallard today

2101
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:09,839
Speaker 6: and historically so are different. Well that's where we're gonna go. Okay,

2102
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:15,720
Speaker 6: so our North American wild mallard has had that the

2103
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:19,839
Speaker 6: premise of that twenty twenty paper was that the release

2104
01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:26,639
Speaker 6: of game farm mallards had foundationally transformed the genetic integrity over.

2105
01:50:26,479 --> 01:50:27,320
Speaker 7: A wild mallard.

2106
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:28,080
Speaker 2: All right.

2107
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:31,800
Speaker 6: So then I was like, all right, let's look at

2108
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:35,720
Speaker 6: how this occurs across the world. And for that we

2109
01:50:35,760 --> 01:50:37,840
Speaker 6: had to go to Europe and on top of it

2110
01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:40,919
Speaker 6: be like, okay, are our game farm mallards from Europe?

2111
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:42,800
Speaker 2: You know, had to prove that, So you had to

2112
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:43,599
Speaker 2: send your wife there.

2113
01:50:43,800 --> 01:50:46,160
Speaker 6: So I just I would have gone.

2114
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:47,799
Speaker 7: No, I had colleagues in Europe.

2115
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:50,599
Speaker 6: They sent me a whole bunch of DNA and blood

2116
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:55,680
Speaker 6: and all this other stuff from Sweden. Almost what did

2117
01:50:55,680 --> 01:50:58,400
Speaker 6: we do? Twelve countries? It's in that paper right there.

2118
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:01,160
Speaker 2: We back over one second. Your is she a duck

2119
01:51:01,240 --> 01:51:03,280
Speaker 2: hunor she is? Okay?

2120
01:51:03,479 --> 01:51:03,719
Speaker 7: Yeah?

2121
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:05,559
Speaker 2: Did she bring friends?

2122
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:07,040
Speaker 4: Uh?

2123
01:51:07,240 --> 01:51:09,400
Speaker 3: No, she's just solo clients.

2124
01:51:10,439 --> 01:51:14,040
Speaker 9: Strange a single woman shows up to the hunting club

2125
01:51:15,960 --> 01:51:18,479
Speaker 9: with her fowling piece and just like, let's go.

2126
01:51:19,200 --> 01:51:19,400
Speaker 2: Well.

2127
01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:23,160
Speaker 6: We also requested that the dogs handle the birds, uh

2128
01:51:23,640 --> 01:51:27,000
Speaker 6: carefully because we were making a mount a mount.

2129
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:29,240
Speaker 2: Oh that's good. Wow.

2130
01:51:30,200 --> 01:51:33,200
Speaker 3: I have a quick question backing up real quick, Khaki Campbell.

2131
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:35,080
Speaker 3: I've never heard of this before, is it?

2132
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:35,640
Speaker 12: No?

2133
01:51:35,720 --> 01:51:40,040
Speaker 3: I see it. I'm curious if that is commonly known

2134
01:51:40,080 --> 01:51:42,400
Speaker 3: as a blonde mallard.

2135
01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:46,439
Speaker 7: Maybe, so we're going to get it.

2136
01:51:46,479 --> 01:51:48,760
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to like deviate however, like this is

2137
01:51:50,680 --> 01:51:52,640
Speaker 3: this is this is very interesting to me.

2138
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:56,160
Speaker 11: Yeah, because like the blonde Mallard was always like genetics

2139
01:51:56,160 --> 01:51:58,000
Speaker 11: and like it was just losing its color.

2140
01:51:58,080 --> 01:51:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've always thought it was like it was like

2141
01:52:00,160 --> 01:52:03,240
Speaker 3: lousistic mallard. If that's even a real is.

2142
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:07,920
Speaker 6: The domestic tree of life for fort first, for.

2143
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:11,240
Speaker 3: Mallard, because a blonde Mallard is a prized piece for.

2144
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:11,639
Speaker 7: For very years.

2145
01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:13,640
Speaker 2: You should hold fills cameras.

2146
01:52:14,280 --> 01:52:14,960
Speaker 3: Here's one right here.

2147
01:52:15,640 --> 01:52:18,519
Speaker 9: Focus there you go, Matt, I have a I have

2148
01:52:18,560 --> 01:52:22,160
Speaker 9: a quick question as well. So as you're talking about Ossippy,

2149
01:52:22,479 --> 01:52:25,760
Speaker 9: so many of these mallards have game farm bird genetics

2150
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:28,799
Speaker 9: in them. Matt and I have a lot of friends

2151
01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:31,519
Speaker 9: east and south east of the Mississippian in the southern

2152
01:52:31,640 --> 01:52:35,360
Speaker 9: United States who claim that they know ducks better than

2153
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:38,599
Speaker 9: anybody in the world. It's a culture that prides itself

2154
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:41,840
Speaker 9: on being duck hunters. Would it be fair, in your

2155
01:52:41,880 --> 01:52:44,840
Speaker 9: scientific opinion, for us, when we are hunting with them

2156
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:48,040
Speaker 9: to let them know that the birds that they so

2157
01:52:48,280 --> 01:52:50,760
Speaker 9: love and shoot are in fact, genetically inferior.

2158
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:52,519
Speaker 2: I think that's what he's getting at to what we have.

2159
01:52:53,280 --> 01:52:56,640
Speaker 6: I'll let you make that conclusion, okay.

2160
01:52:56,640 --> 01:52:59,479
Speaker 2: But afterwards, your game farm ducks, the game farm ducks

2161
01:52:59,520 --> 01:53:01,160
Speaker 2: you guys got, can you write me a note after

2162
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:04,080
Speaker 2: sign it? I walk through like I'm telling you.

2163
01:53:04,040 --> 01:53:07,080
Speaker 7: That doctor said this. Yeah, doctor Phil tells you.

2164
01:53:07,720 --> 01:53:09,760
Speaker 9: Because I want to have I would like to have

2165
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:12,280
Speaker 9: some some bragging rights.

2166
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, well, yeah, we're pure game park ducks, dude,

2167
01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:18,559
Speaker 2: and like, no, wonder you got him. I hope you

2168
01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:20,439
Speaker 2: got it. I hope you I'd hope you'd be able

2169
01:53:20,439 --> 01:53:21,840
Speaker 2: to get one. Yeah.

2170
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:23,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, you guys don't even need calls, you just go

2171
01:53:24,040 --> 01:53:28,800
Speaker 7: quack quack and yeah, okay, so we're going to talk

2172
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:29,200
Speaker 7: more about that.

2173
01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:31,840
Speaker 6: Let's put white bread out. Actually, don't feel that that

2174
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:32,599
Speaker 6: causes them.

2175
01:53:32,760 --> 01:53:34,519
Speaker 7: Uh, it doesn't matter.

2176
01:53:35,280 --> 01:53:38,479
Speaker 6: All right, all right, So so we were doing it.

2177
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:41,240
Speaker 6: So where was that night, twenty twenty pav Yeah.

2178
01:53:41,280 --> 01:53:42,240
Speaker 2: You were global Global.

2179
01:53:42,680 --> 01:53:45,679
Speaker 6: So I also knew that they released game far mallards

2180
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:48,360
Speaker 6: in New Zealand. They stopped in nineteen what was it,

2181
01:53:48,439 --> 01:53:51,120
Speaker 6: nineteen seventies or so, I think it's the date.

2182
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:54,720
Speaker 2: So what was their duck with it?

2183
01:53:55,200 --> 01:53:59,360
Speaker 6: We record show both game farm mallards were bought from

2184
01:53:59,360 --> 01:54:02,160
Speaker 6: Europe and brought there. That was the first time.

2185
01:54:02,240 --> 01:54:05,040
Speaker 2: Did they have what native ducks they have? Oh? Did

2186
01:54:05,080 --> 01:54:06,080
Speaker 2: they have a Mallard light?

2187
01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:06,360
Speaker 4: Yeah?

2188
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:09,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's called the New Zealand Gray Duck. It's part

2189
01:54:09,080 --> 01:54:10,639
Speaker 6: of the Pacific Black Duck group.

2190
01:54:10,920 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 2: But it's it's a it's a Mallard off.

2191
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:13,960
Speaker 6: It's a Mallard off shoot.

2192
01:54:14,040 --> 01:54:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's totally different though.

2193
01:54:16,200 --> 01:54:19,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, all right, so we call this Mallard complex. It's

2194
01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:22,840
Speaker 6: like a Mallard complex. But actually the Mallard was not

2195
01:54:23,120 --> 01:54:25,479
Speaker 6: the source for all of these other ducks. It's it's

2196
01:54:25,520 --> 01:54:29,600
Speaker 6: an African species which was completely we probably extinct, but

2197
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:32,760
Speaker 6: most likely part of like the African black duck, yellow

2198
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:36,360
Speaker 6: bill duck group. We call it the Mallard complex because

2199
01:54:36,440 --> 01:54:41,600
Speaker 6: we have a complex with mallards and yeah, it's like mallard.

2200
01:54:41,640 --> 01:54:46,320
Speaker 6: Oh yeah. Anyway, So so so we I had done

2201
01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:49,960
Speaker 6: a scientific collecting trip in New Zealand where we collected

2202
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:53,560
Speaker 6: four hundred birds all around the South Island north falling piece,

2203
01:54:53,880 --> 01:54:54,480
Speaker 6: fowling piece.

2204
01:54:54,560 --> 01:54:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2205
01:54:54,760 --> 01:54:56,920
Speaker 3: Did you do it out of season or in season?

2206
01:54:57,040 --> 01:54:57,160
Speaker 6: No?

2207
01:54:57,240 --> 01:54:59,920
Speaker 2: In season? Yeah, just straight up hunting.

2208
01:55:00,920 --> 01:55:02,240
Speaker 7: It's called scientific collective.

2209
01:55:02,320 --> 01:55:06,200
Speaker 2: I mean you guys are like scientists, decoy calling.

2210
01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:08,960
Speaker 6: Well, that's how you get them, inn yet I don't know.

2211
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:11,880
Speaker 2: If you get some other things you're about, like you

2212
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:14,440
Speaker 2: shoot them out of golf course ponds. I don't know.

2213
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:18,200
Speaker 7: No, maybe in Mexico we did that.

2214
01:55:18,280 --> 01:55:20,040
Speaker 2: So you're like, like I would have looked, but like

2215
01:55:20,040 --> 01:55:21,600
Speaker 2: those guys are duck hunting, but in fact you were

2216
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:22,440
Speaker 2: collecting specimens.

2217
01:55:22,480 --> 01:55:25,200
Speaker 6: Yeah okay, yeah, so we did this whole thing. So

2218
01:55:25,320 --> 01:55:28,040
Speaker 6: I had a bunch of mallards that are so so.

2219
01:55:28,120 --> 01:55:30,480
Speaker 6: Their population I think the last estimate was also three

2220
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:34,640
Speaker 6: just about three million, so they're doing well. The question

2221
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:37,080
Speaker 6: is where did they come from? Right, so we know

2222
01:55:37,160 --> 01:55:40,120
Speaker 6: that they had two efforts of bringing in mallards into

2223
01:55:40,120 --> 01:55:42,200
Speaker 6: New Zealand. One came out of Europe and another one

2224
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 6: they came to North America. And they bought mallards from

2225
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:46,000
Speaker 6: North America.

2226
01:55:45,840 --> 01:55:47,760
Speaker 7: Really thinking of assuming they were different.

2227
01:55:48,080 --> 01:55:51,320
Speaker 2: Hey. Uh, when I was in New Zealand, I shot

2228
01:55:51,360 --> 01:55:56,000
Speaker 2: with my rifle a Canada goose, did you, yeah, which

2229
01:55:56,000 --> 01:55:58,520
Speaker 2: are like wide old the rifle. That's the same deal, right,

2230
01:55:58,560 --> 01:55:58,960
Speaker 2: I mean it is.

2231
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:01,880
Speaker 6: Those Those were Canada geese that were probably I don't

2232
01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:03,720
Speaker 6: know where they brought were brought from, but I'm assuming

2233
01:56:03,720 --> 01:56:04,440
Speaker 6: from the States.

2234
01:56:04,440 --> 01:56:07,040
Speaker 2: They just brought like caught them loose, same thing.

2235
01:56:07,200 --> 01:56:10,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know the moose that they brought there was

2236
01:56:10,200 --> 01:56:11,000
Speaker 6: I think new Fie.

2237
01:56:11,080 --> 01:56:12,640
Speaker 2: They think they're gone, yeah.

2238
01:56:12,440 --> 01:56:14,120
Speaker 7: But every so often they like pop up.

2239
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:16,760
Speaker 2: It's become their Tasmanian.

2240
01:56:28,320 --> 01:56:30,480
Speaker 3: So Phil, I was in New Zealand and I did

2241
01:56:30,480 --> 01:56:33,080
Speaker 3: a duck hunt as well, and their prize duck is

2242
01:56:33,120 --> 01:56:35,400
Speaker 3: the mallard. Right, everybody wants to shoot the mallard down.

2243
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:37,240
Speaker 2: There, and would you look and be like that's a mallard.

2244
01:56:37,400 --> 01:56:40,200
Speaker 3: Well, so here's my thing. So I wanted to shoot

2245
01:56:40,200 --> 01:56:45,240
Speaker 3: Perry's because Perry's are super cool. What's that duck? Paradise

2246
01:56:45,280 --> 01:56:49,360
Speaker 3: shell duck yep, so super fascinating native to their Yeah, yep.

2247
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:53,160
Speaker 3: And it's fascinating that with the paradise shell duck. Not

2248
01:56:53,240 --> 01:56:57,240
Speaker 3: to get off subject, but the drake is actually black

2249
01:56:58,000 --> 01:57:02,160
Speaker 3: and the hen is all colored up. I gotta believe

2250
01:57:02,200 --> 01:57:05,000
Speaker 3: it has to do with no land predators. But so

2251
01:57:05,440 --> 01:57:09,160
Speaker 3: I was looking at the mallard there, Yeah, really cool duck.

2252
01:57:09,800 --> 01:57:12,120
Speaker 3: So the female is the one with the white head.

2253
01:57:12,200 --> 01:57:12,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2254
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:15,640
Speaker 3: So I was looking at the mallards there, and the

2255
01:57:15,640 --> 01:57:19,960
Speaker 3: mallards don't fly high. They fly really low to the ground, right,

2256
01:57:20,040 --> 01:57:21,920
Speaker 3: And so I was like, gosh, these mallards are kind

2257
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:23,440
Speaker 3: of weird. They work a little bit funny over the

2258
01:57:23,480 --> 01:57:25,600
Speaker 3: decoys work to the call a little bit different. We

2259
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:30,400
Speaker 3: get them in, and I was convinced that the legs

2260
01:57:30,400 --> 01:57:34,880
Speaker 3: of the mallard were further towards the head than of

2261
01:57:34,960 --> 01:57:37,440
Speaker 3: the ducks that we usually shoot. And the only thing

2262
01:57:37,440 --> 01:57:40,000
Speaker 3: that I could come up with was that maybe on

2263
01:57:40,040 --> 01:57:42,160
Speaker 3: the nesting site they don't because they don't have any

2264
01:57:42,240 --> 01:57:44,600
Speaker 3: land predators, they don't have to like stand straight up,

2265
01:57:44,640 --> 01:57:48,040
Speaker 3: so they're more adapt for, you know, hanging out on

2266
01:57:48,080 --> 01:57:50,800
Speaker 3: the ground and feeding and doing that sort of thing.

2267
01:57:51,120 --> 01:57:53,840
Speaker 3: But I could tell a very distinct difference between not

2268
01:57:53,880 --> 01:57:55,640
Speaker 3: only the way they acted, but the way they looked.

2269
01:57:56,560 --> 01:57:59,600
Speaker 6: In New Zealand specifically, I'm assuming you never saw one

2270
01:58:00,240 --> 01:58:02,040
Speaker 6: perfectly looking green head.

2271
01:58:02,200 --> 01:58:07,560
Speaker 3: I mean they all looked the same. Yeah, they looked different. Yeah,

2272
01:58:07,600 --> 01:58:09,560
Speaker 3: not like a farm duck, but like different.

2273
01:58:10,920 --> 01:58:12,760
Speaker 7: Yeah yeah yeah.

2274
01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:16,640
Speaker 6: So New Zealand had their source was game farm mallards

2275
01:58:16,640 --> 01:58:21,080
Speaker 6: from Europe and from North America. Another one we went,

2276
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:23,400
Speaker 6: I have a study looking at Hawaiian ducks and this

2277
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:27,200
Speaker 6: issue with hybridization with domestic mallards there, so I had

2278
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:29,840
Speaker 6: mallards from Hawaii as well. I thought those were going

2279
01:58:29,880 --> 01:58:32,200
Speaker 6: to be park ducks. So let's just like move forward

2280
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:36,920
Speaker 6: into the into what we now know feral populations on

2281
01:58:37,000 --> 01:58:40,800
Speaker 6: Hawaii as well as New Zealand source population were game

2282
01:58:40,800 --> 01:58:43,800
Speaker 6: farm mallards. The interesting thing there is both of those

2283
01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:49,120
Speaker 6: locations had a stop on release, right, So for for

2284
01:58:49,240 --> 01:58:53,120
Speaker 6: fifty sixty years, formal stop a formal stop, right, So

2285
01:58:53,200 --> 01:58:57,600
Speaker 6: you weren't adding stuff into it. I know that New Zealand.

2286
01:58:57,840 --> 01:59:01,200
Speaker 6: New Zealand's like the best case situation to compare because

2287
01:59:01,200 --> 01:59:04,680
Speaker 6: it's at a larger scale. But they went with thirty

2288
01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:07,040
Speaker 6: thousand birds, they had a drop in population size and

2289
01:59:07,080 --> 01:59:11,120
Speaker 6: now have three million. So obviously there was enough genetic variation,

2290
01:59:11,320 --> 01:59:13,920
Speaker 6: enough situation where they were able to survive through the

2291
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:16,800
Speaker 6: like oh, we have really bad genetics, and then come

2292
01:59:16,840 --> 01:59:20,240
Speaker 6: out the other end. Now, our work also suggests that

2293
01:59:20,280 --> 01:59:23,320
Speaker 6: they interbred with those New Zealand gray ducks and it

2294
01:59:23,360 --> 01:59:26,440
Speaker 6: looks like they got some of those functionally important genes

2295
01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:28,440
Speaker 6: from them, which is super cool.

2296
01:59:28,720 --> 01:59:31,520
Speaker 7: But the other part of it, there's no predators, right.

2297
01:59:31,640 --> 01:59:34,480
Speaker 6: That gives them time to be like, oh, we're really

2298
01:59:34,560 --> 01:59:36,880
Speaker 6: bad at life, but we'll survive long enough.

2299
01:59:36,880 --> 01:59:39,080
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, feral cats are the only thing that kill them.

2300
01:59:39,240 --> 01:59:42,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, and New Zealanders as if you guys have been there, man,

2301
01:59:42,720 --> 01:59:46,480
Speaker 6: they like to just shoot everything off like cats everything.

2302
01:59:46,640 --> 01:59:51,920
Speaker 6: You know, they're there to shoot stuff. So anyway, so

2303
01:59:52,480 --> 01:59:56,680
Speaker 6: Europe we were able to confirm is the game for

2304
01:59:56,920 --> 02:00:01,960
Speaker 6: the wild mallard from Europe is the ancestor of all

2305
02:00:02,440 --> 02:00:07,720
Speaker 6: mallards including in North America. Now we got birds. The

2306
02:00:07,760 --> 02:00:11,920
Speaker 6: only genetic difference was mallards out of Greenland. Don't know

2307
02:00:11,960 --> 02:00:14,800
Speaker 6: exactly what that's about, but it's most likely that a

2308
02:00:14,840 --> 02:00:17,760
Speaker 6: bunch of mallards went there and sort of like probably

2309
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:21,640
Speaker 6: a long time ago, and turned into genetically changed for time.

2310
02:00:23,880 --> 02:00:29,240
Speaker 6: The important thing here is that game farm mallards from

2311
02:00:29,240 --> 02:00:32,680
Speaker 6: Europe are the thing that is here in Hawaii, New

2312
02:00:32,760 --> 02:00:35,800
Speaker 6: Zealand and elsewhere. So this single lineage, it wasn't it

2313
02:00:35,840 --> 02:00:39,680
Speaker 6: wasn't Khaki Campbell's or any any other All the genetics,

2314
02:00:39,760 --> 02:00:43,720
Speaker 6: this alternative non wild genetics came from game farm mallards.

2315
02:00:44,120 --> 02:00:47,880
Speaker 6: So their release across the world at this point has

2316
02:00:48,200 --> 02:00:53,480
Speaker 6: resulted not only in feral population but also just geographically

2317
02:00:53,920 --> 02:00:57,920
Speaker 6: widespread hybridization with local populations. And in our case, the

2318
02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:03,240
Speaker 6: wild mallard so coming to so because we had so

2319
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:07,840
Speaker 6: that study was two thousand samples about nine hundred and

2320
02:01:07,920 --> 02:01:11,440
Speaker 6: sixteen samples worldwide, about thirteen hundred samples here in North America,

2321
02:01:11,480 --> 02:01:16,120
Speaker 6: mostly Atlantic Flyway Mississippi Flyway, and then we put about

2322
02:01:16,120 --> 02:01:21,360
Speaker 6: four hundred birds mostly from the Canadian provinces that go

2323
02:01:21,640 --> 02:01:24,720
Speaker 6: all the way to Alaska. Go all right, So what

2324
02:01:24,880 --> 02:01:28,760
Speaker 6: happens in North America is you have a decrease in

2325
02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:33,680
Speaker 6: this genetic signature east to west, right exactly where the

2326
02:01:33,720 --> 02:01:37,440
Speaker 6: releases are. So then if we zoom in where we

2327
02:01:37,480 --> 02:01:40,800
Speaker 6: had where we identified hot spots, so kind of like

2328
02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:47,040
Speaker 6: epicenters of hybridization this situation. Can anybody guess in North

2329
02:01:47,040 --> 02:01:51,680
Speaker 6: America where the epicenter is Chesabeake Bay Almost yeah, Jersey, ooh,

2330
02:01:53,040 --> 02:01:58,760
Speaker 6: Jersey looks like Trance genetically, it's there really every time,

2331
02:01:58,800 --> 02:02:01,320
Speaker 6: no matter what year I go, no matter what year

2332
02:02:01,360 --> 02:02:05,840
Speaker 6: I go, Jersey will always have Feral Mallardy feral game farm.

2333
02:02:05,880 --> 02:02:07,040
Speaker 6: Now I have to explain.

2334
02:02:07,040 --> 02:02:08,360
Speaker 2: Where are they coming from there?

2335
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:12,240
Speaker 6: The really the some of the major release groups.

2336
02:02:11,800 --> 02:02:13,880
Speaker 2: Are there, so they got they got like the dark

2337
02:02:14,000 --> 02:02:16,280
Speaker 2: it's numbers, the stocking.

2338
02:02:16,440 --> 02:02:16,720
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2339
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:24,240
Speaker 6: So so that location and now some of our newer

2340
02:02:24,320 --> 02:02:29,040
Speaker 6: studies in the Great Lakes region is starting to find

2341
02:02:29,240 --> 02:02:31,320
Speaker 6: that the Great Lakes region is starting to look like

2342
02:02:31,440 --> 02:02:36,000
Speaker 6: Jersey and France. And these are three locations that are

2343
02:02:36,080 --> 02:02:39,240
Speaker 6: not doing great in duck number, in Mallard numbers.

2344
02:02:40,280 --> 02:02:42,120
Speaker 2: This is going to bring back the whole freedom fry

2345
02:02:42,240 --> 02:02:42,680
Speaker 2: thing again.

2346
02:02:43,520 --> 02:02:46,400
Speaker 6: So so anyway, so it's sticking with the North America

2347
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:49,240
Speaker 6: just to give you some numbers. The Atlantic Flyway. So

2348
02:02:49,320 --> 02:02:53,640
Speaker 6: we had hunting season, non hunting seasons, the summer, summer

2349
02:02:55,000 --> 02:02:57,280
Speaker 6: banding time, so like, what are we banding in the

2350
02:02:57,360 --> 02:02:59,440
Speaker 6: in the States, and we did it state. We have

2351
02:02:59,520 --> 02:03:00,800
Speaker 6: every single state.

2352
02:03:00,600 --> 02:03:02,360
Speaker 2: Because banding is always done in the summer.

2353
02:03:02,960 --> 02:03:07,000
Speaker 6: Correct, Yeah, there's winter banding as well now, but the

2354
02:03:07,040 --> 02:03:09,560
Speaker 6: majority of the banding is summer.

2355
02:03:09,280 --> 02:03:11,040
Speaker 2: Because when they're molting's easy to get them.

2356
02:03:11,120 --> 02:03:16,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, you think that that represents your production of that state, right,

2357
02:03:16,720 --> 02:03:17,600
Speaker 6: So that's the production.

2358
02:03:18,960 --> 02:03:20,400
Speaker 7: So there's.

2359
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:26,440
Speaker 6: All right, So Jersey, Massachusetts, and whether it's hunting or

2360
02:03:26,440 --> 02:03:27,839
Speaker 6: non hunting, I can't find.

2361
02:03:27,600 --> 02:03:29,200
Speaker 7: A wild mallard. It's like zero percent.

2362
02:03:29,640 --> 02:03:36,760
Speaker 6: What Yeah, Massachusetts, Jersey, Connecticut, I'm missing, But that.

2363
02:03:36,720 --> 02:03:39,960
Speaker 2: Whole little sit in the summer. In the summer, if

2364
02:03:39,960 --> 02:03:41,640
Speaker 2: you're in the summer, you go out to a state

2365
02:03:41,680 --> 02:03:44,200
Speaker 2: game refuge in New Jersey, you're handling either a feral

2366
02:03:45,200 --> 02:03:47,720
Speaker 2: thunkel mallard over the head. That's not a wild mallard.

2367
02:03:48,640 --> 02:03:54,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, genetically, you're funny. Yes, it's not a North American

2368
02:03:54,920 --> 02:03:56,000
Speaker 6: wild mallard anymore.

2369
02:03:57,040 --> 02:03:58,960
Speaker 7: So New York's a little bit better.

2370
02:03:59,200 --> 02:04:02,400
Speaker 6: I think they were like sixty sixty forty sixty percent

2371
02:04:02,760 --> 02:04:05,640
Speaker 6: mostly wild forty. But New York's an interesting piece because

2372
02:04:05,680 --> 02:04:09,280
Speaker 6: we now know that there is a substantial number of

2373
02:04:09,320 --> 02:04:13,920
Speaker 6: Canadian birds. Canadian birds Mallard's out of Canada moving in

2374
02:04:14,400 --> 02:04:18,040
Speaker 6: to those states when we didn't think they were. So

2375
02:04:18,080 --> 02:04:20,240
Speaker 6: they're adding to the production. And what I can tell

2376
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:25,600
Speaker 6: you is that Canada is is more like Quebec is

2377
02:04:25,680 --> 02:04:29,560
Speaker 6: sixty forty sixty percent wild, forty percent hybrid feral.

2378
02:04:30,200 --> 02:04:32,320
Speaker 2: I did want to mention, so have they has Quebec?

2379
02:04:32,400 --> 02:04:34,640
Speaker 2: Does Quebec have a history of cutting birds loose?

2380
02:04:35,320 --> 02:04:36,120
Speaker 6: Not that we know of.

2381
02:04:36,360 --> 02:04:39,280
Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's it's okay. So they didn't create this,

2382
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:40,680
Speaker 2: it's just happening to them.

2383
02:04:40,760 --> 02:04:43,280
Speaker 6: So that's the whole epicenter of what we find. So

2384
02:04:43,800 --> 02:04:46,400
Speaker 6: what a feral bird is is a bird that is

2385
02:04:46,440 --> 02:04:48,640
Speaker 6: in the wild. Right, they're not in the cage anymore.

2386
02:04:48,720 --> 02:04:50,640
Speaker 6: They're in the wild. I don't know if they're in

2387
02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:53,400
Speaker 6: the wild this year, last year, whatever, So I just

2388
02:04:53,400 --> 02:04:54,960
Speaker 6: have to call them feral, just like you would call

2389
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:58,000
Speaker 6: a feral pig. Right if you let loose pigs and

2390
02:04:58,040 --> 02:04:59,920
Speaker 6: then you had no idea and you came out to

2391
02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:02,280
Speaker 6: some property in West Texas, you'd be like, oh, feral

2392
02:05:02,320 --> 02:05:03,880
Speaker 6: pigs because you had no idea.

2393
02:05:03,960 --> 02:05:06,120
Speaker 2: You don't know the individual's history, correct, He could be

2394
02:05:06,160 --> 02:05:10,760
Speaker 2: tenth generation in the wild, first generation but he's just feral, right.

2395
02:05:10,800 --> 02:05:15,880
Speaker 6: And so where you expect, So the epicenter would always

2396
02:05:15,960 --> 02:05:18,760
Speaker 6: have feral birds as well as things that are back

2397
02:05:18,840 --> 02:05:22,480
Speaker 6: crossing genetically interbreeding with these game farm lineages. So you

2398
02:05:22,480 --> 02:05:28,200
Speaker 6: have things that are moving like between wild and game farm,

2399
02:05:28,240 --> 02:05:31,280
Speaker 6: but more game farming. Yeah, and so that's an epicenter,

2400
02:05:31,520 --> 02:05:34,000
Speaker 6: and that's Jersey. What happens as you move away from

2401
02:05:34,080 --> 02:05:37,720
Speaker 6: Jersey is it sort of dissipates. So these genes are

2402
02:05:37,720 --> 02:05:41,440
Speaker 6: being perpetuated through the landscape, but then what they're doing

2403
02:05:41,560 --> 02:05:45,920
Speaker 6: is eventually back crossing into wild, so they're becoming more wild. Now,

2404
02:05:46,040 --> 02:05:48,920
Speaker 6: the problem with Atlantic Flyway in the US side is

2405
02:05:48,920 --> 02:05:53,240
Speaker 6: there's no more parental the average if you go out

2406
02:05:53,320 --> 02:05:56,680
Speaker 6: somewhere in the Atlantic Flyway, the average general average. Some

2407
02:05:56,720 --> 02:06:00,400
Speaker 6: states are better, obviously. You look at a mallard currently, well,

2408
02:06:00,400 --> 02:06:02,160
Speaker 6: at least in twenty twenty three.

2409
02:06:02,640 --> 02:06:03,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, currently twenty two.

2410
02:06:04,360 --> 02:06:09,600
Speaker 6: Uh, it's two percent wild wild. You gotta you drop

2411
02:06:09,600 --> 02:06:13,000
Speaker 6: a mallard out of the sky. In in the Atlantic Flyway,

2412
02:06:13,040 --> 02:06:16,360
Speaker 6: it's about two percent. Again, some states are better than like.

2413
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:21,880
Speaker 2: The fake not fake. The feral ducks have effectively in

2414
02:06:21,960 --> 02:06:25,800
Speaker 2: these areas they have replaced wild mallards more or less. Yeah,

2415
02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:27,640
Speaker 2: let me hit you with the let me hit Let's

2416
02:06:27,640 --> 02:06:30,400
Speaker 2: say you're not interested. Let's say you don't care about

2417
02:06:30,640 --> 02:06:34,480
Speaker 2: endemism and use like the hunt docks, and you don't

2418
02:06:34,480 --> 02:06:36,480
Speaker 2: care about the genetics of the duck. Yeah, so let

2419
02:06:36,520 --> 02:06:39,280
Speaker 2: me hit you with the who cares? I mean, is

2420
02:06:39,760 --> 02:06:46,320
Speaker 2: New Jersey just kicking ass at duck recruitment? No, no, no,

2421
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:47,040
Speaker 2: that's the problem.

2422
02:06:47,160 --> 02:06:50,560
Speaker 6: So the Atlantic Flyway has been declining two percent in

2423
02:06:50,600 --> 02:06:54,800
Speaker 6: its annual production over the last twenty years, just constantly

2424
02:06:54,920 --> 02:06:59,480
Speaker 6: ticking ticking, ticking ticking. In fact, they were down for

2425
02:06:59,760 --> 02:07:02,400
Speaker 6: a five hundred I think they somehow found.

2426
02:07:02,440 --> 02:07:06,720
Speaker 2: Like regardless of the gene background, we're just talking.

2427
02:07:06,520 --> 02:07:08,160
Speaker 6: Like ducks, No mallards.

2428
02:07:08,200 --> 02:07:12,600
Speaker 2: We're talking about I'm sorry, and the mallards like the mallards,

2429
02:07:12,600 --> 02:07:16,880
Speaker 2: regardless of what you're counting. If you're like, there are

2430
02:07:16,960 --> 02:07:22,360
Speaker 2: fewer and fewer mallards out there every year, regardless of

2431
02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:24,960
Speaker 2: whether you're dividing them into wild or well. We didn't

2432
02:07:25,000 --> 02:07:27,320
Speaker 2: know what was the cause. Yeah, but you know that

2433
02:07:27,960 --> 02:07:32,880
Speaker 2: they all have their heritage, is all. We now know

2434
02:07:32,920 --> 02:07:35,360
Speaker 2: that arm raised. Their numbers are going down.

2435
02:07:35,480 --> 02:07:38,720
Speaker 6: So the next question is obviously doesn't matter right, sure,

2436
02:07:41,040 --> 02:07:43,440
Speaker 6: all right, so it's about two percent there. But then

2437
02:07:43,480 --> 02:07:46,720
Speaker 6: as you go to the Mississippi Flyway, there's an interesting

2438
02:07:46,760 --> 02:07:50,600
Speaker 6: aspect and we uh uh some work between Brian Davis

2439
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:54,640
Speaker 6: and Mississippi stay Rikaminski and others, Kevin Ringleman. We did

2440
02:07:54,840 --> 02:08:00,120
Speaker 6: a a sort of like Lower Mississippi Alluvial Valley, if

2441
02:08:00,120 --> 02:08:04,800
Speaker 6: you know that area, Georgia, Louisiana, parts of Missouri. We've

2442
02:08:04,960 --> 02:08:07,280
Speaker 6: got a bunch of birds there. And then I've partnered

2443
02:08:07,320 --> 02:08:10,320
Speaker 6: with Ben Lucanan out of Michigan State, got a whole

2444
02:08:10,360 --> 02:08:12,400
Speaker 6: bunch of hundreds of birds out of the Great Lakes.

2445
02:08:13,560 --> 02:08:17,879
Speaker 6: And there's this interesting dynamic. You go south of Tennessee,

2446
02:08:18,880 --> 02:08:21,880
Speaker 6: ninety four percent of those birds are wild, just wild,

2447
02:08:21,960 --> 02:08:25,920
Speaker 6: straight up wild. Go north of Tennessee towards the Great Lakes,

2448
02:08:25,960 --> 02:08:29,960
Speaker 6: it's increasingly becoming more and more game farming. So current

2449
02:08:30,280 --> 02:08:34,600
Speaker 6: estimates general again average seventy thirty seventy percent game farmy

2450
02:08:34,960 --> 02:08:37,680
Speaker 6: Faral versus the Great Lakes. Yeah, and the Great Lakes

2451
02:08:37,720 --> 02:08:40,200
Speaker 6: is the next place where those populations have been declining.

2452
02:08:41,640 --> 02:08:44,440
Speaker 6: They're exactly those locations. So again you could say, oh,

2453
02:08:44,520 --> 02:08:47,240
Speaker 6: you have no data for association of that sort sure,

2454
02:08:47,560 --> 02:08:51,040
Speaker 6: but my hypothesis is at least provide something is happening.

2455
02:08:52,240 --> 02:08:56,880
Speaker 6: So again, so what's so all right, so now everybody's

2456
02:08:56,920 --> 02:08:57,320
Speaker 6: on track.

2457
02:08:57,800 --> 02:09:00,480
Speaker 11: I get a question, Yeah, are you grabbing these ducks

2458
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:02,360
Speaker 11: during the breeding season.

2459
02:09:04,160 --> 02:09:05,280
Speaker 7: From all these different states?

2460
02:09:05,360 --> 02:09:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2461
02:09:05,640 --> 02:09:07,240
Speaker 7: So so that works.

2462
02:09:07,280 --> 02:09:12,839
Speaker 6: So they're they're breeding the two separate, separate types of sampling.

2463
02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:15,800
Speaker 6: So we do hunter harvest sampling. Hunters are just you know,

2464
02:09:15,880 --> 02:09:17,720
Speaker 6: during the hunting season, we get a bunch of samples.

2465
02:09:18,320 --> 02:09:18,400
Speaker 3: Uh.

2466
02:09:18,520 --> 02:09:22,080
Speaker 6: But then there's banding crews again. Ben Lucanan and his

2467
02:09:22,080 --> 02:09:25,720
Speaker 6: his crew out of the Great Lakes, Doug Osborne or

2468
02:09:25,760 --> 02:09:30,480
Speaker 6: of University of Arkansas, uh, Brad Cohen out of Tennessee Tech,

2469
02:09:31,720 --> 02:09:34,440
Speaker 6: and Brian Brian Davis out of Mississippi State. They are

2470
02:09:34,440 --> 02:09:38,360
Speaker 6: constantly catching, putting telemetry units and banding and.

2471
02:09:38,320 --> 02:09:39,680
Speaker 2: All that stuff up out of the wat.

2472
02:09:41,320 --> 02:09:43,560
Speaker 6: So then so then I partnered with them and be like,

2473
02:09:43,560 --> 02:09:45,120
Speaker 6: all right, just bleed them a little bit and get

2474
02:09:45,120 --> 02:09:45,800
Speaker 6: me that sample.

2475
02:09:45,880 --> 02:09:47,200
Speaker 7: Right, We're not killing those birds.

2476
02:09:48,760 --> 02:09:52,360
Speaker 6: So so uh so then we have those two comparisons.

2477
02:09:52,360 --> 02:09:56,320
Speaker 6: What are we banding during what summer? And then what

2478
02:09:56,360 --> 02:09:58,640
Speaker 6: are we harvesting? So we have those types of comparisons

2479
02:09:58,640 --> 02:10:01,200
Speaker 6: so we're building those data sets to answer how does

2480
02:10:01,240 --> 02:10:07,160
Speaker 6: the mixture between Canada raised mallards and US mallards occur

2481
02:10:07,280 --> 02:10:12,080
Speaker 6: across the hunting time span? Because if you go to

2482
02:10:12,320 --> 02:10:15,400
Speaker 6: folks in the Mississippi, they'd be like, all our ducks.

2483
02:10:15,240 --> 02:10:16,360
Speaker 7: Are stopping in the north.

2484
02:10:16,560 --> 02:10:19,520
Speaker 6: Yeah for sure, Yeah, because.

2485
02:10:19,320 --> 02:10:21,400
Speaker 11: Yeah, I was just thinking about migration and I'm like,

2486
02:10:22,120 --> 02:10:24,360
Speaker 11: how do you know where this exact duck came from?

2487
02:10:24,440 --> 02:10:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2488
02:10:25,400 --> 02:10:27,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, So so that was our question.

2489
02:10:28,040 --> 02:10:30,800
Speaker 6: All right, so we know this, so we we now

2490
02:10:30,880 --> 02:10:33,240
Speaker 6: we publish these papers and we know this like different

2491
02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:38,720
Speaker 6: population dynamics going on. We you know, so I partner

2492
02:10:38,760 --> 02:10:41,240
Speaker 6: with them and we've got telemetry units on them. Right,

2493
02:10:42,160 --> 02:10:46,000
Speaker 6: can anybody guess trivia where those birds in the lower

2494
02:10:46,040 --> 02:10:50,400
Speaker 6: Mississippi Alluvia Valley are from? Given their genetics of wild

2495
02:10:50,880 --> 02:10:53,680
Speaker 6: I made a hypothesis and thankfully I was right to.

2496
02:10:53,640 --> 02:10:56,320
Speaker 2: The west more Preci.

2497
02:10:57,200 --> 02:10:58,120
Speaker 7: Exactly Dakota.

2498
02:10:58,480 --> 02:11:02,160
Speaker 6: Every every bird that was that, I think, every bird

2499
02:11:02,200 --> 02:11:04,879
Speaker 6: maybe not maybe except for one that was a hybrid,

2500
02:11:05,200 --> 02:11:08,640
Speaker 6: went to the Great Lakes. And then really and then

2501
02:11:08,640 --> 02:11:11,520
Speaker 6: the Great Lakes birds do they do you think they have?

2502
02:11:12,040 --> 02:11:16,320
Speaker 6: So well, we have four years now of telemetry units

2503
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:19,440
Speaker 6: tied with genetics, so we know what's happening. What do

2504
02:11:19,480 --> 02:11:22,240
Speaker 6: you think those birds are doing? Are they migrating? Are

2505
02:11:22,240 --> 02:11:25,880
Speaker 6: they what would you expected on which birds like Great

2506
02:11:25,920 --> 02:11:28,520
Speaker 6: Lakes birds given that I told you about this, like

2507
02:11:29,080 --> 02:11:31,200
Speaker 6: increasingly game farming situation.

2508
02:11:30,920 --> 02:11:35,040
Speaker 3: Should be holding they should be holding strong where somewhere

2509
02:11:35,120 --> 02:11:37,600
Speaker 3: up in the Great Lakes, somewhere up in that region

2510
02:11:38,040 --> 02:11:39,680
Speaker 3: because they're not going to migrate all the way south.

2511
02:11:39,760 --> 02:11:43,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, they do a random walk, a walk, it's called

2512
02:11:43,400 --> 02:11:45,920
Speaker 6: random walk. There isn't a straight path. Some birds go

2513
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:49,560
Speaker 6: to the Atlantics. Some birds go south, but then there's

2514
02:11:49,600 --> 02:11:52,480
Speaker 6: this wall in Tennessee that they do not cross.

2515
02:11:52,600 --> 02:11:55,240
Speaker 7: Don't understand why, trying to figure that out. And they

2516
02:11:55,280 --> 02:11:58,520
Speaker 7: go straight back up. All of the birds with thirty percent.

2517
02:11:58,760 --> 02:12:01,640
Speaker 2: So they'll scatter off various directions.

2518
02:12:01,040 --> 02:12:04,920
Speaker 6: Just it's more random. Yeah, it's completely random. It's it's

2519
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:08,880
Speaker 6: not significantly different from random. Right, So the birds in

2520
02:12:08,880 --> 02:12:10,840
Speaker 6: the lower Mississippi have this like straight patch.

2521
02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:12,760
Speaker 2: Well, have you been able to watch any of these

2522
02:12:12,880 --> 02:12:15,000
Speaker 2: ducks and see what he does? Is he doing this?

2523
02:12:15,200 --> 02:12:17,600
Speaker 2: Is he is an individual duck doing the same thing,

2524
02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:20,160
Speaker 2: or is an individual duck doing different directions all the time?

2525
02:12:20,720 --> 02:12:23,600
Speaker 6: Individual duck is doing random walks.

2526
02:12:24,320 --> 02:12:26,800
Speaker 2: Okay, so in twenty twenty one he does this. In

2527
02:12:26,800 --> 02:12:27,640
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two.

2528
02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:31,480
Speaker 6: They survive well. So it's these ones are all females.

2529
02:12:31,920 --> 02:12:34,640
Speaker 6: I wish we would put males because they're the males

2530
02:12:34,680 --> 02:12:37,480
Speaker 6: and waterfowl are the dispersing sex. So if you've got

2531
02:12:37,480 --> 02:12:40,280
Speaker 6: a game farmy male or a game farming female, it's

2532
02:12:40,280 --> 02:12:43,160
Speaker 6: the male that's most likely to move the gees. But

2533
02:12:43,640 --> 02:12:46,160
Speaker 6: nobody wants to put telemetry and it's on males. Apparently

2534
02:12:46,360 --> 02:12:49,760
Speaker 6: it's unfortunate because I was good shot. Yeah no, because

2535
02:12:49,800 --> 02:12:53,480
Speaker 6: then you can look at nest nesting, perpetual nesting and all,

2536
02:12:53,560 --> 02:12:56,000
Speaker 6: and that's like the next that's the main question that

2537
02:12:56,040 --> 02:12:59,200
Speaker 6: they're all asking, Like, you know, these populations are declining,

2538
02:12:59,200 --> 02:13:01,440
Speaker 6: so they're always just like, okay, what are the females doing?

2539
02:13:01,640 --> 02:13:02,840
Speaker 7: Like what is the problem.

2540
02:13:04,000 --> 02:13:06,040
Speaker 3: I have a timeline question because I'm just kind of

2541
02:13:06,080 --> 02:13:09,000
Speaker 3: tracking what you're saying. So boreal forests go way back.

2542
02:13:09,360 --> 02:13:12,040
Speaker 3: You had said that there was no mallards in the

2543
02:13:12,200 --> 02:13:16,760
Speaker 3: Northern Atlantic Northeast region. Yeah, anyways, that there was a

2544
02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:20,160
Speaker 3: bunch down south of Tennessee. Naturally, there was a bunch

2545
02:13:20,200 --> 02:13:23,360
Speaker 3: of while down there already there was none up in

2546
02:13:23,400 --> 02:13:26,600
Speaker 3: the New Jersey area, so they brought them in. We

2547
02:13:26,680 --> 02:13:29,000
Speaker 3: have the American black duck who's not getting messed with

2548
02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:32,520
Speaker 3: with you know what's going on here, And now all

2549
02:13:32,520 --> 02:13:35,000
Speaker 3: of a sudden, there's mallards again. It kind of goes

2550
02:13:35,040 --> 02:13:36,480
Speaker 3: back to the hooket, like, now all of a sudden,

2551
02:13:36,560 --> 02:13:38,600
Speaker 3: we have a bunch of mallards there that we didn't

2552
02:13:38,640 --> 02:13:43,240
Speaker 3: have before, and they weren't migrating in because they're staying

2553
02:13:43,240 --> 02:13:45,720
Speaker 3: in Canada or coming around the Great Lakes or whatever.

2554
02:13:46,400 --> 02:13:49,600
Speaker 3: So like that region there, there's a population that was

2555
02:13:49,640 --> 02:13:52,160
Speaker 3: never there before and now it is. And yes it's

2556
02:13:52,160 --> 02:13:55,120
Speaker 3: a game farm mallard. So is it more the wide

2557
02:13:55,160 --> 02:13:57,280
Speaker 3: spread of that that's the issue, or.

2558
02:13:57,240 --> 02:13:58,480
Speaker 6: Is it it's the spreading.

2559
02:13:58,640 --> 02:14:02,360
Speaker 3: It's the spreading that we don't like, because having a

2560
02:14:02,400 --> 02:14:05,880
Speaker 3: mallard in New Jersey is seems like it's a success story.

2561
02:14:05,960 --> 02:14:08,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but when you say that all the mallard, yeah,

2562
02:14:08,320 --> 02:14:11,280
Speaker 2: like all the mallards in New Jersey are game fire mallards.

2563
02:14:11,440 --> 02:14:15,120
Speaker 2: But was there ever a difference meaning they went from

2564
02:14:15,160 --> 02:14:17,760
Speaker 2: no mallards to just only game fire mallards?

2565
02:14:17,800 --> 02:14:20,280
Speaker 6: So I hope to answer that question soon with those

2566
02:14:20,320 --> 02:14:22,880
Speaker 6: eighteen hundreds, So we did we redid that study. We

2567
02:14:22,920 --> 02:14:26,600
Speaker 6: have eight hundred historical samples from eighteen hundred to today

2568
02:14:26,680 --> 02:14:29,400
Speaker 6: to answer that question, how did it happen? We know

2569
02:14:29,640 --> 02:14:30,760
Speaker 6: what we have now.

2570
02:14:30,760 --> 02:14:32,840
Speaker 2: But you know where the samples came from, and.

2571
02:14:32,800 --> 02:14:34,880
Speaker 6: We know exactly where the samples came from with the

2572
02:14:34,960 --> 02:14:35,680
Speaker 6: dates location.

2573
02:14:35,920 --> 02:14:37,720
Speaker 2: So there were mallards that got killed out of New

2574
02:14:37,800 --> 02:14:40,640
Speaker 2: Jersey the eighteen hundreds, yeah, okay, yeah, number.

2575
02:14:40,520 --> 02:14:43,920
Speaker 6: Some number, yeah yeah, yeah, I mean people shoot still

2576
02:14:43,960 --> 02:14:47,000
Speaker 6: shoot cinnamon teal in there every so often, right, so

2577
02:14:47,440 --> 02:14:49,600
Speaker 6: these things got collected. Is I'm sure at that time

2578
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:51,240
Speaker 6: you shot a malley, you're like, oh, man, put this

2579
02:14:51,280 --> 02:14:52,280
Speaker 6: thing into the museum.

2580
02:14:52,320 --> 02:14:54,480
Speaker 2: It was you were surprised. Yeah, I see, I see

2581
02:14:54,840 --> 02:14:56,280
Speaker 2: some strays would go through that.

2582
02:14:56,360 --> 02:14:57,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

2583
02:14:59,320 --> 02:15:00,280
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2584
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:04,160
Speaker 6: So now we're seeing these migratory differences that are that

2585
02:15:04,240 --> 02:15:07,400
Speaker 6: at least to some extent, are genetically associated. Because we

2586
02:15:07,480 --> 02:15:10,320
Speaker 6: have this nice association of an individual that's and it's

2587
02:15:10,480 --> 02:15:13,640
Speaker 6: very weird. Don't know why yet, but thirty percent or

2588
02:15:13,680 --> 02:15:16,600
Speaker 6: more game farm makes them do weird things.

2589
02:15:17,320 --> 02:15:19,360
Speaker 7: All right, So now we've got so now we have

2590
02:15:19,480 --> 02:15:21,080
Speaker 7: sort of lists like situation.

2591
02:15:21,200 --> 02:15:21,320
Speaker 2: Oh.

2592
02:15:21,360 --> 02:15:23,600
Speaker 6: The other thing is is birds in the Atlantic Flyway

2593
02:15:23,720 --> 02:15:26,960
Speaker 6: had a connect connectivity to the Atlantic Flyway. There's birds

2594
02:15:26,960 --> 02:15:30,200
Speaker 6: that are interchanging. So the question is like, why is

2595
02:15:30,240 --> 02:15:32,480
Speaker 6: there increasing game farm in the Great Lakes.

2596
02:15:32,520 --> 02:15:35,360
Speaker 7: Is it people releasing them or is it just this.

2597
02:15:35,480 --> 02:15:38,520
Speaker 6: Like kind of ebb and flow between the Atlantic Flyway

2598
02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:42,160
Speaker 6: and the Great Lakes region kind of this natural, semi

2599
02:15:42,240 --> 02:15:43,320
Speaker 6: natural ebb and flow.

2600
02:15:43,640 --> 02:15:45,360
Speaker 7: That's the question that we hope to answer.

2601
02:15:45,800 --> 02:15:49,480
Speaker 2: Are there people releasing If they're releasing them, they're not

2602
02:15:49,480 --> 02:15:50,080
Speaker 2: supposed to be.

2603
02:15:51,760 --> 02:15:55,200
Speaker 7: That's a state that's a state by state kind of situation.

2604
02:15:55,280 --> 02:15:56,600
Speaker 2: We I mean, how would you not know if they're

2605
02:15:56,600 --> 02:15:57,760
Speaker 2: releasing them in the Great Lakes.

2606
02:15:57,760 --> 02:16:00,600
Speaker 7: Nobody's keeping track of that as far as I can tell.

2607
02:16:00,680 --> 02:16:05,840
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so someone could be I mean the Great Lakes,

2608
02:16:05,960 --> 02:16:07,480
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, five or six states,

2609
02:16:07,480 --> 02:16:12,480
Speaker 2: whatever the hell. Yeah, So Michigan, are there there are

2610
02:16:12,480 --> 02:16:15,400
Speaker 2: not to your knowledge, there are not places in Michigan

2611
02:16:15,400 --> 02:16:18,320
Speaker 2: that like advertise that they're dumping mallards.

2612
02:16:17,920 --> 02:16:18,840
Speaker 7: Not to my knowledge. Yeah.

2613
02:16:18,880 --> 02:16:23,800
Speaker 6: So the genetic signatures that I see there make me

2614
02:16:23,880 --> 02:16:28,200
Speaker 6: believe that people are because because it looks like Jersey,

2615
02:16:28,200 --> 02:16:30,680
Speaker 6: it looks like France. Then the whole thing is like

2616
02:16:32,360 --> 02:16:35,800
Speaker 6: these things have a low survival, right, So a colleague

2617
02:16:35,800 --> 02:16:38,120
Speaker 6: of mine in Sweden kind of did a survival estimate.

2618
02:16:38,320 --> 02:16:41,000
Speaker 6: They said, like three percent, But look, three percent of

2619
02:16:41,040 --> 02:16:42,920
Speaker 6: half a million, two hundred and fifty thousand and a

2620
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:47,600
Speaker 6: half a million or more throughout time is more than enough. Yeah, right,

2621
02:16:47,640 --> 02:16:51,039
Speaker 6: And it's it isn't really that it's the trickle effect.

2622
02:16:51,120 --> 02:16:52,119
Speaker 7: It's the added every.

2623
02:16:51,959 --> 02:16:54,760
Speaker 6: Single year you're just you're continuing to move those genes

2624
02:16:54,760 --> 02:16:57,760
Speaker 6: into the population over and over and over. We can

2625
02:16:57,800 --> 02:17:00,240
Speaker 6: go back to rainbow trot. So the fisheries are are

2626
02:17:00,280 --> 02:17:02,800
Speaker 6: far ahead of what we do where we are because

2627
02:17:02,800 --> 02:17:07,240
Speaker 6: they've been studying this. It takes only three generations for

2628
02:17:07,240 --> 02:17:09,880
Speaker 6: for rainbow trout to be in a stock tank. Uh,

2629
02:17:10,120 --> 02:17:13,560
Speaker 6: for for fifty percent of the eggs to be in viable,

2630
02:17:14,200 --> 02:17:16,879
Speaker 6: because what happens in this in Italy. Yeah, and the

2631
02:17:16,920 --> 02:17:20,440
Speaker 6: same thing with quail. Only three or four generations of

2632
02:17:20,480 --> 02:17:24,520
Speaker 6: being in captivity, the viability decreases that much. And the

2633
02:17:24,560 --> 02:17:28,280
Speaker 6: reason for that is because everybody wins in a cage. Right,

2634
02:17:28,320 --> 02:17:31,720
Speaker 6: So you're perpetuating these genes that would have been lost

2635
02:17:31,959 --> 02:17:35,480
Speaker 6: every single year by natural processes in the wild. But

2636
02:17:35,520 --> 02:17:38,360
Speaker 6: now you're pushing the putting them into the wild.

2637
02:17:38,640 --> 02:17:42,800
Speaker 2: You know the unibomber got into this. Oh yeah, you

2638
02:17:42,879 --> 02:17:44,199
Speaker 2: read the manifesto.

2639
02:17:44,320 --> 02:17:46,680
Speaker 6: I know, I know the unise Yeah no, well I'll

2640
02:17:46,680 --> 02:17:48,640
Speaker 6: just give it to Oh my god, didn't I didn't

2641
02:17:48,680 --> 02:17:49,280
Speaker 6: see this coming.

2642
02:17:49,320 --> 02:17:53,279
Speaker 2: He rates levels of difficulty one to five and his manifesto,

2643
02:17:53,800 --> 02:17:58,320
Speaker 2: and he's like, one is I can't remember it was

2644
02:17:58,360 --> 02:18:03,920
Speaker 2: inverse or not, but let's say one is, Uh, try

2645
02:18:03,959 --> 02:18:07,840
Speaker 2: as hard as you can, you'll never succeed. Okay, Five

2646
02:18:08,000 --> 02:18:09,879
Speaker 2: is you don't even need to try, and you'll succeed.

2647
02:18:10,920 --> 02:18:14,800
Speaker 2: His deal is that technology that Human Survival used to

2648
02:18:14,840 --> 02:18:17,640
Speaker 2: hover like at the two three. Yeah, try pretty hard.

2649
02:18:18,000 --> 02:18:21,520
Speaker 2: He tried pretty hard, you'll be okay. Now you can

2650
02:18:21,560 --> 02:18:22,640
Speaker 2: do the opposite to try.

2651
02:18:23,320 --> 02:18:25,000
Speaker 7: You sit there and just be fine.

2652
02:18:25,840 --> 02:18:30,960
Speaker 2: And and that's part of his gripe with technology. Everybody

2653
02:18:31,000 --> 02:18:32,080
Speaker 2: wins in the cage.

2654
02:18:32,000 --> 02:18:32,840
Speaker 7: Everybody wins.

2655
02:18:34,840 --> 02:18:36,920
Speaker 2: See and then he tied that to all the neuro season.

2656
02:18:36,959 --> 02:18:41,920
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, there's nothing cleaning anything out anymore.

2657
02:18:40,320 --> 02:18:44,320
Speaker 2: Title well, we got away from we don't do a

2658
02:18:44,320 --> 02:18:44,680
Speaker 2: good title.

2659
02:18:44,760 --> 02:18:47,000
Speaker 10: This is the second podcast this month where Steve's made

2660
02:18:47,040 --> 02:18:49,840
Speaker 10: the guests uncomfortable by being kind of like prom.

2661
02:18:54,440 --> 02:18:58,280
Speaker 2: It's just springing it in. I'm not pro unibomber at all.

2662
02:18:59,240 --> 02:19:02,400
Speaker 2: I took a class in college called political rhetoric, and

2663
02:19:02,440 --> 02:19:05,960
Speaker 2: we read political rhetic everything from Doctor King, Camille Paglia,

2664
02:19:06,320 --> 02:19:08,960
Speaker 2: the Unibomber, Like, we read it all. And I think

2665
02:19:09,000 --> 02:19:10,600
Speaker 2: a lot of people know about the Unibomber, but not

2666
02:19:10,600 --> 02:19:13,560
Speaker 2: a lot of people had to read the Unibomber's manifesto. No,

2667
02:19:14,040 --> 02:19:15,760
Speaker 2: so you had to read the Unibomber's manifesto.

2668
02:19:15,920 --> 02:19:17,520
Speaker 7: Are you going to talk about Charlie Manson?

2669
02:19:17,560 --> 02:19:22,320
Speaker 2: Now, we didn't read anything abou Charlie. I'll have to

2670
02:19:22,360 --> 02:19:24,360
Speaker 2: write doctor Gillison note and tell him that he should

2671
02:19:24,360 --> 02:19:26,960
Speaker 2: have had some Charlie Manson writings in there. But no,

2672
02:19:28,120 --> 02:19:30,920
Speaker 2: not pro unibomber, but just he had a motive. He

2673
02:19:30,959 --> 02:19:33,879
Speaker 2: had he had like motivating thoughts.

2674
02:19:34,280 --> 02:19:37,280
Speaker 6: No, yeah, I mean in a cage, everybody wins. I

2675
02:19:37,280 --> 02:19:40,880
Speaker 6: mean I teach I teach similar things, right, is it

2676
02:19:41,000 --> 02:19:46,879
Speaker 6: not unibomber things I teach? You know, Like, look, humans,

2677
02:19:46,360 --> 02:19:52,320
Speaker 6: everybody's surprised always that the effective population size of humans

2678
02:19:52,400 --> 02:19:55,600
Speaker 6: is ten thousand people. That's how many people there should

2679
02:19:55,600 --> 02:19:58,560
Speaker 6: be and it hasn't changed. And everybody's like, well, why

2680
02:19:58,640 --> 02:20:03,640
Speaker 6: is that that's because genetic very genetic variation doesn't come

2681
02:20:03,959 --> 02:20:07,720
Speaker 6: come up that fast. Our populations exploded only in the

2682
02:20:07,800 --> 02:20:12,000
Speaker 6: last two hundred years, really, right, and so for a

2683
02:20:12,120 --> 02:20:15,080
Speaker 6: very very for ninety nine percent of our history, we

2684
02:20:15,080 --> 02:20:19,840
Speaker 6: were at an effective population size of ten thousand breeding pairs.

2685
02:20:20,360 --> 02:20:23,080
Speaker 6: And that's what the earth was more or less okay

2686
02:20:23,120 --> 02:20:28,040
Speaker 6: with and so and so there was a stability, There

2687
02:20:28,080 --> 02:20:33,280
Speaker 6: was a stability, and society, domestication, all of these things

2688
02:20:33,320 --> 02:20:37,800
Speaker 6: allowed that population to grow. But it's only that God,

2689
02:20:37,840 --> 02:20:39,360
Speaker 6: I got loss of where I was going with this,

2690
02:20:39,440 --> 02:20:42,320
Speaker 6: but but I'm going to it is because yeah, it through.

2691
02:20:44,280 --> 02:20:45,560
Speaker 7: Society. Society.

2692
02:20:46,480 --> 02:20:49,360
Speaker 6: Society is our cage, and it becomes you know, we

2693
02:20:49,600 --> 02:20:52,400
Speaker 6: we we go further and further further to the four

2694
02:20:52,520 --> 02:20:54,680
Speaker 6: or five. Well, earlier on, as long as you were

2695
02:20:54,760 --> 02:20:56,920
Speaker 6: kings and stuff like that, you were really out of five.

2696
02:20:57,160 --> 02:20:58,640
Speaker 6: Everybody else was still kind of at a two.

2697
02:20:58,840 --> 02:21:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, So what's the if the situation goes

2698
02:21:07,640 --> 02:21:13,800
Speaker 2: and continues to happen? Yeah, do you picture that? Do

2699
02:21:13,840 --> 02:21:15,960
Speaker 2: you picture that they'll continue to move westward?

2700
02:21:16,400 --> 02:21:17,119
Speaker 6: That's exactly, Souse.

2701
02:21:17,120 --> 02:21:20,080
Speaker 2: There's some amount astray, like exactly like when you look

2702
02:21:20,120 --> 02:21:22,560
Speaker 2: at that salm and a lot of salmon make a

2703
02:21:22,600 --> 02:21:25,680
Speaker 2: wrong turn, correct, and that's how they colonize new rivers. Correct,

2704
02:21:25,840 --> 02:21:28,120
Speaker 2: like they just go out the wrong river. Most of

2705
02:21:28,120 --> 02:21:30,360
Speaker 2: the time they do that. It doesn't work out now

2706
02:21:30,360 --> 02:21:32,280
Speaker 2: and then one does that and he's like, sweet, yep,

2707
02:21:33,280 --> 02:21:34,840
Speaker 2: that hold new salmon stream.

2708
02:21:35,080 --> 02:21:40,879
Speaker 6: No, no, absolutely, And that's exactly what's happening. It's we

2709
02:21:40,879 --> 02:21:43,760
Speaker 6: we ben Senator and I looked at banding data we

2710
02:21:43,840 --> 02:21:47,199
Speaker 6: recently published Internal of Wildlife Management, and we saw that

2711
02:21:47,360 --> 02:21:51,360
Speaker 6: there's a twenty five percent emigration rate, so leaving the

2712
02:21:51,400 --> 02:21:55,000
Speaker 6: Atlantic flywight on the US side into the Mississippi. So

2713
02:21:55,080 --> 02:21:57,879
Speaker 6: this is one way that things are moving west. And

2714
02:21:57,959 --> 02:22:01,160
Speaker 6: so most likely what's happening is those genetics are coming

2715
02:22:01,200 --> 02:22:03,840
Speaker 6: over their pair bonding with something that goes to the prairies,

2716
02:22:03,879 --> 02:22:06,480
Speaker 6: and they're moving it into the prairies. And that is

2717
02:22:06,520 --> 02:22:08,480
Speaker 6: exactly what we're seeing through time.

2718
02:22:08,440 --> 02:22:10,840
Speaker 2: And that'll Jon Rock Mountain, that'll jump.

2719
02:22:11,800 --> 02:22:15,800
Speaker 6: The unfortunate thing is uh so okay, So getting back

2720
02:22:15,840 --> 02:22:17,560
Speaker 6: to is this a bad thing? Let me let me

2721
02:22:17,600 --> 02:22:21,640
Speaker 6: prevince this. So study between Michael Schumer at Sunni SEF

2722
02:22:21,879 --> 02:22:25,959
Speaker 6: and his master student Susannah haligrand Brian Davis out Mississippi

2723
02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:28,840
Speaker 6: State Ariol Fournier with Forged Biological Station.

2724
02:22:29,240 --> 02:22:33,760
Speaker 2: This is very generous someone receiving an OSCAR.

2725
02:22:34,879 --> 02:22:39,280
Speaker 6: I want to thank everybody, as well as California Waterfowl

2726
02:22:39,280 --> 02:22:41,640
Speaker 6: Association with Caroline Brady and Brian Huber.

2727
02:22:42,480 --> 02:22:45,000
Speaker 7: All right, I got all those out. Uh, So we

2728
02:22:45,080 --> 02:22:45,760
Speaker 7: did a study.

2729
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:48,640
Speaker 2: We want to We can't be like, well what I did, yeah,

2730
02:22:48,520 --> 02:22:51,880
Speaker 2: Ahi on this silver tower by myself.

2731
02:22:52,640 --> 02:22:54,280
Speaker 6: No, No, that's not how I work. I'm like, we

2732
02:22:54,320 --> 02:22:56,800
Speaker 6: got to get this, you know study. I almost said,

2733
02:22:56,840 --> 02:23:01,360
Speaker 6: you know, the stuff done, and I work by bringing

2734
02:23:01,360 --> 02:23:02,920
Speaker 6: in the people who know how to do it quickly.

2735
02:23:02,959 --> 02:23:04,120
Speaker 6: And that's what I do, you know.

2736
02:23:05,200 --> 02:23:06,600
Speaker 7: So anyways, so.

2737
02:23:07,120 --> 02:23:11,439
Speaker 6: We're like, okay, we need to get wild strain birds

2738
02:23:11,680 --> 02:23:15,040
Speaker 6: and game farm birds into captivity to test. Like the

2739
02:23:15,080 --> 02:23:18,880
Speaker 6: first thing that we started seeing is their bill and

2740
02:23:18,920 --> 02:23:21,840
Speaker 6: we're like, this bill on this game farm mallard sure

2741
02:23:21,879 --> 02:23:25,280
Speaker 6: looks like it's better at pecking than it is at straining.

2742
02:23:25,879 --> 02:23:29,160
Speaker 6: So we had a hypothesis that in captivity where you

2743
02:23:29,360 --> 02:23:33,280
Speaker 6: throw grains out, potentially over in the last four hundred years,

2744
02:23:33,280 --> 02:23:36,120
Speaker 6: we've been selecting for things that can a run over

2745
02:23:36,160 --> 02:23:39,920
Speaker 6: to that and be peck at it. And so We're like,

2746
02:23:39,920 --> 02:23:41,840
Speaker 6: all right, let's see what this looks like. So we

2747
02:23:41,920 --> 02:23:44,680
Speaker 6: got birds out of California. And this gets back to

2748
02:23:44,720 --> 02:23:47,200
Speaker 6: your comment about going west, and I'm like, oh, for

2749
02:23:47,320 --> 02:23:50,800
Speaker 6: sure those are wild birds, and lo and behold there's

2750
02:23:50,800 --> 02:23:54,880
Speaker 6: game far mallards there. Somebody's releasing them in California. Unfortunate.

2751
02:23:55,040 --> 02:23:56,199
Speaker 6: Really didn't see that coming.

2752
02:23:57,440 --> 02:23:59,480
Speaker 7: So I called up some friends and they're like, yeah,

2753
02:23:59,520 --> 02:24:00,240
Speaker 7: there's some people.

2754
02:24:00,560 --> 02:24:03,680
Speaker 6: I don't know who they really, So now I'm gonna

2755
02:24:03,680 --> 02:24:05,600
Speaker 6: have to send my wife back to California.

2756
02:24:07,160 --> 02:24:09,959
Speaker 7: Anyways, so we brought these in captivity.

2757
02:24:10,000 --> 02:24:13,119
Speaker 6: We genetically vetted everyone, meaning we did you know, ancestry

2758
02:24:13,120 --> 02:24:16,279
Speaker 6: dot com on everybody knew everybody, Okay, these are hybrids,

2759
02:24:16,280 --> 02:24:19,320
Speaker 6: these are wild these are the game farms. On top

2760
02:24:19,360 --> 02:24:21,119
Speaker 6: of it, we got game by doing this. We got

2761
02:24:21,120 --> 02:24:25,120
Speaker 6: game farms from like other states, everybody, same exact genetic signature,

2762
02:24:25,360 --> 02:24:30,119
Speaker 6: still old world Eurasian signature, right, still from over there.

2763
02:24:30,920 --> 02:24:33,119
Speaker 6: So we brought them in and what we were doing

2764
02:24:33,160 --> 02:24:38,080
Speaker 6: were these feeding trials. And what we would do is

2765
02:24:38,120 --> 02:24:40,920
Speaker 6: we would take the individual and we would we would

2766
02:24:40,959 --> 02:24:45,240
Speaker 6: give them a food wild seats, what they would actually

2767
02:24:45,280 --> 02:24:48,280
Speaker 6: eat in the wild, in a bowl, and we would

2768
02:24:48,280 --> 02:24:50,560
Speaker 6: force them to strain it right, and then we would

2769
02:24:50,640 --> 02:24:54,120
Speaker 6: see how much food was left over so much time.

2770
02:24:56,959 --> 02:24:59,880
Speaker 6: To the crux of it, we found that game f

2771
02:25:00,120 --> 02:25:06,760
Speaker 6: arm mallards are fifty percent inefficient in eating wild seeds

2772
02:25:06,800 --> 02:25:09,119
Speaker 6: straining wild seeds as a wild mallard, and the worst

2773
02:25:09,160 --> 02:25:12,440
Speaker 6: of them were female game farm mallards. So that means

2774
02:25:12,560 --> 02:25:15,040
Speaker 6: in the wild you can extrapolate this too, they need

2775
02:25:15,080 --> 02:25:17,120
Speaker 6: twice as much food and twice as much time to

2776
02:25:17,120 --> 02:25:21,800
Speaker 6: get the same calories on top of it. Anecdotally, because

2777
02:25:21,800 --> 02:25:24,800
Speaker 6: we were just watching this, you could go into a

2778
02:25:24,840 --> 02:25:27,520
Speaker 6: cage and be like, that's a game farm female, because

2779
02:25:27,560 --> 02:25:30,119
Speaker 6: what would happen is every day there'd just be eggs

2780
02:25:30,400 --> 02:25:34,959
Speaker 6: randomly placed places. At times she would make a nest,

2781
02:25:35,040 --> 02:25:38,119
Speaker 6: but it would be like half made right, So like

2782
02:25:38,600 --> 02:25:42,640
Speaker 6: she's not she has been transformed to be a chicken,

2783
02:25:43,440 --> 02:25:46,760
Speaker 6: because in domestic settings you don't want them to nest.

2784
02:25:46,920 --> 02:25:48,680
Speaker 6: You want them to just poop eggs out and you

2785
02:25:48,680 --> 02:25:52,480
Speaker 6: put them into your incubators. Wild bird, you knew exactly

2786
02:25:52,560 --> 02:25:54,560
Speaker 6: what it is. The nest is there. There's almost never

2787
02:25:54,600 --> 02:25:58,680
Speaker 6: an egg because they're stressed out right. So anyway, so

2788
02:25:59,040 --> 02:26:04,080
Speaker 6: now we have this this association of genetics, morphology, and

2789
02:26:04,160 --> 02:26:08,480
Speaker 6: now it's causing issues on their ability to feed. On

2790
02:26:08,560 --> 02:26:11,160
Speaker 6: top of all this, what we found out is what's

2791
02:26:11,240 --> 02:26:14,200
Speaker 6: happened is they actually have made these things flightier. So

2792
02:26:14,520 --> 02:26:19,560
Speaker 6: you have a a mallard about the same length, but

2793
02:26:19,640 --> 02:26:23,080
Speaker 6: the wings are shorter, the legs are longer, so they

2794
02:26:23,200 --> 02:26:26,520
Speaker 6: run faster. Or that's that when you see the tarsis

2795
02:26:26,640 --> 02:26:29,120
Speaker 6: get longer. It's it's what you see in island species

2796
02:26:29,160 --> 02:26:33,359
Speaker 6: where they're become more terrestrial, more time on the ground exactly,

2797
02:26:33,480 --> 02:26:35,720
Speaker 6: and so but the wings are shorter. That was an

2798
02:26:35,720 --> 02:26:39,480
Speaker 6: interesting one because I had to go to our aeronautics team.

2799
02:26:39,520 --> 02:26:40,600
Speaker 7: I was like, what does this do?

2800
02:26:40,720 --> 02:26:42,920
Speaker 6: And they're like, oh, you took a jumbo jet and

2801
02:26:42,959 --> 02:26:45,400
Speaker 6: you put fighter wings on it. You created you made

2802
02:26:45,400 --> 02:26:50,720
Speaker 6: it flightier. So these things can maneuver at faster rates.

2803
02:26:50,800 --> 02:26:54,400
Speaker 6: But here's the kicker. When we finished our feeding trials,

2804
02:26:54,440 --> 02:26:57,560
Speaker 6: we put them back on purina chow to get them fat,

2805
02:26:58,440 --> 02:27:04,000
Speaker 6: and the hybrids puriana child so a high protein diet

2806
02:27:04,000 --> 02:27:05,840
Speaker 6: to get them back to fat because we wanted to

2807
02:27:05,879 --> 02:27:09,320
Speaker 6: know what they would what they would do, and anything

2808
02:27:09,360 --> 02:27:11,840
Speaker 6: that had thirty percent more game farm or just straight

2809
02:27:11,920 --> 02:27:16,720
Speaker 6: up game farm almost never put fat on. They just

2810
02:27:16,800 --> 02:27:19,200
Speaker 6: stayed the same. So they're like a seven nine hundred

2811
02:27:19,240 --> 02:27:22,480
Speaker 6: grand bird, whereas a wild mallard at full fat, you're

2812
02:27:22,480 --> 02:27:24,560
Speaker 6: looking at nine hundred to twelve hundred grand.

2813
02:27:24,720 --> 02:27:26,600
Speaker 2: They're not getting properly geared up for.

2814
02:27:26,680 --> 02:27:31,040
Speaker 6: It, and that's physiologically. They do not put fat on.

2815
02:27:31,200 --> 02:27:35,160
Speaker 6: It seems again anecdotally just because of what we've done

2816
02:27:35,520 --> 02:27:38,040
Speaker 6: game wild mallards. You put them on Purian chown in

2817
02:27:38,080 --> 02:27:41,000
Speaker 6: four days, they're like twelve hundred grands. Right, they're putting

2818
02:27:41,000 --> 02:27:43,240
Speaker 6: that fat on just as you would expect. So now

2819
02:27:43,320 --> 02:27:46,160
Speaker 6: let's put all this into a winter situation in Michigan.

2820
02:27:46,640 --> 02:27:48,560
Speaker 6: A freak storm comes in. You got a bird with

2821
02:27:48,600 --> 02:27:52,320
Speaker 6: no fuel, shorter wings, that can fly fast, but can't

2822
02:27:52,360 --> 02:27:58,480
Speaker 6: migrate far and would have to refuel almost every stop. Right,

2823
02:27:58,800 --> 02:28:01,160
Speaker 6: that's a bad thing. So now going back to the

2824
02:28:01,200 --> 02:28:05,320
Speaker 6: telemetry units, what did they actually tell us that? So

2825
02:28:05,440 --> 02:28:09,280
Speaker 6: not only are these females we've had females with thirty

2826
02:28:09,280 --> 02:28:12,520
Speaker 6: percent or more game farm in them, they had a

2827
02:28:12,560 --> 02:28:17,080
Speaker 6: statistically significant I'm pretty sure I'm saying this, okay, statistically

2828
02:28:17,080 --> 02:28:26,320
Speaker 6: significant abandonment of nest, statistically significant tied to urbanization, and

2829
02:28:26,400 --> 02:28:28,720
Speaker 6: they were the ones that are doing the random walk.

2830
02:28:28,879 --> 02:28:32,039
Speaker 6: And that's and when we looked at stopover rates, they

2831
02:28:32,040 --> 02:28:35,640
Speaker 6: had statistically significantly higher rates of stopover. These things are

2832
02:28:35,680 --> 02:28:39,640
Speaker 6: burning fuel and as they hop scotch across the country,

2833
02:28:39,680 --> 02:28:41,039
Speaker 6: so they can't go very far.

2834
02:28:41,040 --> 02:28:45,520
Speaker 7: So the city almost that's that's the random walk.

2835
02:28:45,640 --> 02:28:46,959
Speaker 2: That's why they come back.

2836
02:28:47,200 --> 02:28:49,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, they're like, oh, I gotta go back to bread.

2837
02:28:49,240 --> 02:28:54,360
Speaker 6: Bread lady, you know, like refuel except bread gives ducks

2838
02:28:54,440 --> 02:28:57,040
Speaker 6: angel wings, So don't give them bread. They actually are

2839
02:28:57,160 --> 02:28:58,640
Speaker 6: killing them by giving them bread.

2840
02:28:58,879 --> 02:29:02,440
Speaker 2: Really. Yeah, so if they had just done one of

2841
02:29:02,480 --> 02:29:04,959
Speaker 2: these introductions fifty years ago.

2842
02:29:06,040 --> 02:29:07,959
Speaker 6: It would have been swamped out by the wild.

2843
02:29:07,760 --> 02:29:09,880
Speaker 2: Because of all these problems. Yeah, what's the fact that

2844
02:29:09,920 --> 02:29:11,760
Speaker 2: you're just doing it and doing it and doing it

2845
02:29:11,800 --> 02:29:13,360
Speaker 2: and doing it, and once it's in there, it doesn't

2846
02:29:13,400 --> 02:29:13,800
Speaker 2: go away.

2847
02:29:14,120 --> 02:29:19,160
Speaker 6: That's that's the New Zealand situation, where you had inundation,

2848
02:29:19,480 --> 02:29:22,759
Speaker 6: you put these things out there and then you like, let's.

2849
02:29:22,360 --> 02:29:24,120
Speaker 7: See what mother nature basically would do.

2850
02:29:24,360 --> 02:29:28,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, and obviously they but again an interesting situation. It's

2851
02:29:28,320 --> 02:29:34,199
Speaker 6: an islands island ecosystem. There are there there aren't needs

2852
02:29:34,200 --> 02:29:40,200
Speaker 6: for migration because you know, seasonality isn't the same, no predators,

2853
02:29:40,240 --> 02:29:42,640
Speaker 6: all these It's it's sort of like a perfect situation.

2854
02:29:43,760 --> 02:29:46,440
Speaker 2: It's not this like complex web of all these correct

2855
02:29:46,560 --> 02:29:50,800
Speaker 2: intercontinental migration parallel migration paths, you know.

2856
02:29:51,120 --> 02:29:54,920
Speaker 6: Exactly and so so yeah, So what we know now

2857
02:29:55,040 --> 02:30:00,000
Speaker 6: is that at minimum there are physiological morphological which means

2858
02:30:00,200 --> 02:30:04,560
Speaker 6: like their bill, their body, all this stuff, and they're physiological.

2859
02:30:04,640 --> 02:30:05,080
Speaker 3: I forgot.

2860
02:30:05,240 --> 02:30:08,000
Speaker 6: So when we started seeing some of this uh this

2861
02:30:08,240 --> 02:30:12,240
Speaker 6: uh changes in migration. We I have a master student

2862
02:30:12,959 --> 02:30:18,480
Speaker 6: uh uh Nico who's working on getting muscle fibers off

2863
02:30:18,520 --> 02:30:22,400
Speaker 6: of the ducks of these different genetic heritage. Looking at

2864
02:30:23,440 --> 02:30:27,040
Speaker 6: I might get this wrongick quick twitch or slow twitch

2865
02:30:27,200 --> 02:30:31,800
Speaker 6: muscle fibers, So you would want quick twitch for faster movement,

2866
02:30:31,959 --> 02:30:36,480
Speaker 6: slow twitch for that elongated migration pattern is the hypothesis,

2867
02:30:36,720 --> 02:30:39,560
Speaker 6: and we're seeing exactly that that these birds have higher

2868
02:30:40,720 --> 02:30:45,000
Speaker 6: proportions of quick twitch as compared to or fast twitch

2869
02:30:45,120 --> 02:30:49,800
Speaker 6: versus slow twitch. That's it more slow twitch or sorry,

2870
02:30:50,080 --> 02:30:52,360
Speaker 6: more fast twitch in the game for our mallards as

2871
02:30:52,400 --> 02:30:55,600
Speaker 6: compared to the slow twitch in wild Mallards are doing

2872
02:30:55,640 --> 02:30:59,400
Speaker 6: these my long distance migration and able to make these

2873
02:30:59,440 --> 02:31:00,000
Speaker 6: long distances.

2874
02:31:00,400 --> 02:31:02,240
Speaker 7: So basically what this game farm mallard.

2875
02:31:02,040 --> 02:31:08,720
Speaker 6: Is is a fighter jet that goes really fast short bursts. Uh,

2876
02:31:08,760 --> 02:31:10,200
Speaker 6: and that's about it.

2877
02:31:10,280 --> 02:31:12,400
Speaker 7: That's but that's what we bredd it for, right.

2878
02:31:12,520 --> 02:31:15,720
Speaker 6: That, unintentionally or intentionally, we got what we wanted.

2879
02:31:16,200 --> 02:31:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a question for you.

2880
02:31:18,600 --> 02:31:22,840
Speaker 9: So when I hear this, this is from my perspective,

2881
02:31:22,840 --> 02:31:26,440
Speaker 9: it sounds a little doom and gloom, right, like we're screwed.

2882
02:31:27,560 --> 02:31:30,200
Speaker 9: My question is, with all of this data that you

2883
02:31:30,240 --> 02:31:33,720
Speaker 9: have right now, is there legislation in place or being

2884
02:31:33,800 --> 02:31:39,560
Speaker 9: pushed to stop game farm releases? And even if they did,

2885
02:31:39,720 --> 02:31:41,440
Speaker 9: let's just say, you know, you're king of the world.

2886
02:31:41,440 --> 02:31:44,000
Speaker 9: You waved one. There's not another game farm bird released

2887
02:31:44,280 --> 02:31:45,560
Speaker 9: in North America today?

2888
02:31:46,600 --> 02:31:47,840
Speaker 2: Are we screwed? Like?

2889
02:31:48,040 --> 02:31:52,240
Speaker 9: Is this going to eventually be fully bled out as

2890
02:31:52,240 --> 02:31:54,440
Speaker 9: it gets into the West and other regions of the country.

2891
02:31:54,800 --> 02:32:00,920
Speaker 2: I got a solution, good, it's Brady's point. If it was,

2892
02:32:01,080 --> 02:32:05,240
Speaker 2: if the new ones were to end, I mean, can

2893
02:32:05,320 --> 02:32:09,760
Speaker 2: you start bringing ones from the West and yeah, cutting

2894
02:32:09,800 --> 02:32:10,760
Speaker 2: them back loose.

2895
02:32:11,480 --> 02:32:13,560
Speaker 9: Right, I mean, that's that's what it looks like, right

2896
02:32:13,600 --> 02:32:16,840
Speaker 9: if they're eventually if they're so weak that they're not

2897
02:32:16,840 --> 02:32:18,960
Speaker 9: going to be able to withstand the winters and they're

2898
02:32:19,000 --> 02:32:22,039
Speaker 9: not putting on the fat et cetera. I'm just curious,

2899
02:32:22,080 --> 02:32:26,680
Speaker 9: like forward face, forward looking, what's the play here?

2900
02:32:27,640 --> 02:32:29,600
Speaker 7: That's a great question. More data.

2901
02:32:29,959 --> 02:32:31,680
Speaker 2: He's not policy guys.

2902
02:32:31,920 --> 02:32:35,760
Speaker 6: That's right, those kinds of questions.

2903
02:32:35,800 --> 02:32:38,000
Speaker 2: What are the policy guys think about it? Are interested?

2904
02:32:38,120 --> 02:32:41,440
Speaker 6: I am not allowed to come, so I do not comment.

2905
02:32:41,560 --> 02:32:43,000
Speaker 6: I don't know about the Atlantic FLA.

2906
02:32:43,200 --> 02:32:44,800
Speaker 2: I don't give me the you don't comment on.

2907
02:32:44,760 --> 02:32:47,960
Speaker 6: The Mississippi Flyway has reached out. They are they are

2908
02:32:47,959 --> 02:32:50,240
Speaker 6: supposed to be putting a comment out being like we

2909
02:32:50,360 --> 02:32:51,720
Speaker 6: do not support this, I believe.

2910
02:32:55,480 --> 02:32:59,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know what about the U, S.

2911
02:33:00,080 --> 02:33:00,360
Speaker 4: G S.

2912
02:33:00,520 --> 02:33:03,600
Speaker 7: I feel like you're pleading the fifth right now? Uh? Yeah,

2913
02:33:03,640 --> 02:33:04,360
Speaker 7: it definitely is.

2914
02:33:04,640 --> 02:33:06,920
Speaker 2: Okay. Let's say you had let's say you said no,

2915
02:33:06,920 --> 02:33:11,400
Speaker 2: no on it. Uh, let's say you said exactly what

2916
02:33:11,440 --> 02:33:13,360
Speaker 2: you think? What would what bad? What would happen to you?

2917
02:33:13,480 --> 02:33:14,960
Speaker 2: It was bad? All right?

2918
02:33:15,200 --> 02:33:17,199
Speaker 7: So like everybody.

2919
02:33:18,800 --> 02:33:21,160
Speaker 6: The question, Yeah, the Flyways asked me if if this

2920
02:33:21,240 --> 02:33:23,080
Speaker 6: is going to be like, how do you know if

2921
02:33:23,120 --> 02:33:25,600
Speaker 6: it's going to be bad? I won't know until it happens,

2922
02:33:25,760 --> 02:33:27,760
Speaker 6: but we can easily go back and ask, well, what

2923
02:33:27,879 --> 02:33:30,600
Speaker 6: happened with all the fisheries and u quail releases and

2924
02:33:31,240 --> 02:33:34,959
Speaker 6: pheasants and anything else we've tried to release with captive

2925
02:33:35,000 --> 02:33:37,440
Speaker 6: bread birds that have been domesticated for a while.

2926
02:33:37,520 --> 02:33:39,519
Speaker 2: Like the track record's not great, not great.

2927
02:33:39,600 --> 02:33:45,280
Speaker 6: Not great, And all of those signatures are popping up,

2928
02:33:46,040 --> 02:33:48,280
Speaker 6: not just here, but like we can just look at

2929
02:33:48,280 --> 02:33:50,680
Speaker 6: what's happening in Europe, right, So, so France is releasing

2930
02:33:50,720 --> 02:33:53,120
Speaker 6: a few million birds just to have a fall flight.

2931
02:33:53,520 --> 02:33:55,000
Speaker 7: You know that.

2932
02:33:55,000 --> 02:33:58,520
Speaker 6: That's and they have complex ecologies, right, they have my

2933
02:33:58,680 --> 02:34:02,920
Speaker 6: needs for migration. They have seasonality very similar to us.

2934
02:34:03,400 --> 02:34:08,400
Speaker 6: So given the situation there and the constant inundation, the

2935
02:34:08,959 --> 02:34:17,640
Speaker 6: probability of the same situation happening is high.

2936
02:34:16,280 --> 02:34:18,440
Speaker 8: Really close to beyond at a time.

2937
02:34:19,360 --> 02:34:21,440
Speaker 11: All right, sorry, I feel like we could talk about

2938
02:34:21,440 --> 02:34:22,360
Speaker 11: this for five more hours.

2939
02:34:22,480 --> 02:34:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, who you worked for the university? I did? Okay.

2940
02:34:26,040 --> 02:34:28,119
Speaker 2: We had a USGS guy on a long time ago

2941
02:34:28,160 --> 02:34:31,240
Speaker 2: about grizzly bear. His job was to count. His job

2942
02:34:31,280 --> 02:34:33,560
Speaker 2: was to tell people how many bears are there. But

2943
02:34:33,600 --> 02:34:34,920
Speaker 2: he's like, my job is not to tell you what

2944
02:34:34,959 --> 02:34:37,039
Speaker 2: to do about it. I'll tell you how many I

2945
02:34:37,040 --> 02:34:39,720
Speaker 2: think are there, but what you do with that is

2946
02:34:39,760 --> 02:34:42,720
Speaker 2: your business. You're not held by that. You're a university guy.

2947
02:34:43,560 --> 02:34:46,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I work with every state and federal agency

2948
02:34:46,600 --> 02:34:49,480
Speaker 6: in this country and in Canada, and you know, I

2949
02:34:49,600 --> 02:34:52,120
Speaker 6: leave it to them. I provide data and they do

2950
02:34:52,160 --> 02:34:52,600
Speaker 6: what they.

2951
02:34:52,440 --> 02:34:55,000
Speaker 7: Want with I am.

2952
02:34:55,160 --> 02:34:55,440
Speaker 6: I am.

2953
02:34:55,480 --> 02:34:59,880
Speaker 2: Oh, then let's let's hear it. What do you really think?

2954
02:35:00,440 --> 02:35:00,640
Speaker 6: Yeah?

2955
02:35:04,000 --> 02:35:08,040
Speaker 7: So, so people, we gotta right we trivia Pete.

2956
02:35:08,959 --> 02:35:12,039
Speaker 6: I've already done trivia with you guys, like right here,

2957
02:35:12,520 --> 02:35:14,440
Speaker 6: you did. I asked you a questions, a couple of questions.

2958
02:35:14,480 --> 02:35:18,360
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, okay, I think, yeah, what do you do?

2959
02:35:18,440 --> 02:35:21,000
Speaker 6: So we have a project in Hawaii. I'll wrap it

2960
02:35:21,080 --> 02:35:24,760
Speaker 6: up quickly. Like where we're testing this, can you artificially

2961
02:35:24,840 --> 02:35:27,279
Speaker 6: move back a hybrid population towards something different?

2962
02:35:27,360 --> 02:35:28,119
Speaker 2: That's what I want to hear.

2963
02:35:28,280 --> 02:35:32,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, so in Hawaii, can you were We just got funding,

2964
02:35:32,120 --> 02:35:34,200
Speaker 6: although we're two hundred and fifty thousand dollars short. If

2965
02:35:34,320 --> 02:35:37,560
Speaker 6: there are any donors on this podcast, please contact me

2966
02:35:37,680 --> 02:35:41,960
Speaker 6: at Peele Rescue at utub dot eu. Anyways, so we

2967
02:35:42,120 --> 02:35:45,240
Speaker 6: are actually going to try we know exactly the population.

2968
02:35:45,760 --> 02:35:48,400
Speaker 6: It's on Awahu. We're going to try to move pure

2969
02:35:48,640 --> 02:35:52,879
Speaker 6: Hawaiian ducks into this hybrid population and see generationally, how

2970
02:35:52,920 --> 02:35:55,720
Speaker 6: many generations does it take for us to get Hawaiian

2971
02:35:55,760 --> 02:35:58,879
Speaker 6: ducks again? So it's kind of like a genetic pseudo

2972
02:35:58,920 --> 02:36:02,240
Speaker 6: genetic rescue thing. Our models suggest it's only three or

2973
02:36:02,240 --> 02:36:05,040
Speaker 6: four generations, So that's three four breeding events and we'll

2974
02:36:05,040 --> 02:36:08,880
Speaker 6: have Hawaiian pure Hawaiian ducks again. If that works, Like

2975
02:36:08,959 --> 02:36:11,680
Speaker 6: that's a closed system, right, we control we can control

2976
02:36:11,760 --> 02:36:15,880
Speaker 6: so much of that. If that works, then we can

2977
02:36:15,920 --> 02:36:18,560
Speaker 6: extrapolate what would we have to do in North America

2978
02:36:18,640 --> 02:36:23,520
Speaker 6: to turn the tide. Now, the prey, the significant size

2979
02:36:23,520 --> 02:36:26,760
Speaker 6: of the prey pothole population is what is stopping this

2980
02:36:26,879 --> 02:36:31,439
Speaker 6: thing from just constantly moving west because it's it's essentially.

2981
02:36:31,240 --> 02:36:32,920
Speaker 2: Because you're in a Mallard stronghold.

2982
02:36:33,040 --> 02:36:37,240
Speaker 6: Exactly what happened in the East hypothesis Now hopefully i'll

2983
02:36:37,280 --> 02:36:40,760
Speaker 6: have data with all the historical stuff, is that there

2984
02:36:40,760 --> 02:36:43,480
Speaker 6: weren't that many to begin with, and whatever was there

2985
02:36:43,600 --> 02:36:47,120
Speaker 6: you essentially bred out right, and so now it's just

2986
02:36:47,160 --> 02:36:50,920
Speaker 6: these hybrid thingies and so, and you're constantly putting it

2987
02:36:50,959 --> 02:36:53,200
Speaker 6: in where mother nature can't just be like, all right,

2988
02:36:53,280 --> 02:36:55,440
Speaker 6: let's just keep some of this wild in there, yep,

2989
02:36:55,959 --> 02:36:58,320
Speaker 6: because you're just constantly pushing it in and so again,

2990
02:36:59,160 --> 02:37:02,040
Speaker 6: I don't think it's good in doom the Atlantic Flyway,

2991
02:37:02,080 --> 02:37:05,880
Speaker 6: I'm not. You're right, like there's no parental population there.

2992
02:37:05,920 --> 02:37:08,720
Speaker 6: You would have to create one, create one.

2993
02:37:09,400 --> 02:37:11,119
Speaker 9: I lived in that flyway for a couple of years.

2994
02:37:11,120 --> 02:37:12,760
Speaker 9: It felt like doom and gloom when I was there.

2995
02:37:12,840 --> 02:37:14,840
Speaker 2: So they're glad to be here now.

2996
02:37:15,080 --> 02:37:18,640
Speaker 6: Now you were mentioning the Chesapeake Bay and that those

2997
02:37:18,720 --> 02:37:19,520
Speaker 6: ducks are funny.

2998
02:37:19,640 --> 02:37:23,000
Speaker 7: Now you know that they are funny there.

2999
02:37:23,320 --> 02:37:26,200
Speaker 6: Their behavior, everything about them is just you know, it

3000
02:37:26,879 --> 02:37:30,400
Speaker 6: looks like a mallard, but it's a chuaha a dog.

3001
02:37:31,320 --> 02:37:34,520
Speaker 2: We're going to close with a role play. We're in

3002
02:37:34,560 --> 02:37:38,360
Speaker 2: a hotel bar. I don't know anything about you, yeah, okay,

3003
02:37:39,000 --> 02:37:40,600
Speaker 2: and I got no way of finding out about you.

3004
02:37:40,920 --> 02:37:42,879
Speaker 2: And I'm just thinking out loud in this hotel bar,

3005
02:37:43,000 --> 02:37:45,800
Speaker 2: and I'm like, man, I live in New Jersey. I'm

3006
02:37:45,800 --> 02:37:49,119
Speaker 2: thinking about getting into this whole deal of turning game

3007
02:37:49,160 --> 02:37:52,920
Speaker 2: farm mallards out. So I like to hunt ducks. You're

3008
02:37:52,920 --> 02:37:55,920
Speaker 2: just a stranger. What do you think I ought to do?

3009
02:37:57,720 --> 02:37:59,240
Speaker 2: Don't do it, that's what you'd say.

3010
02:37:59,320 --> 02:38:00,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, doctor Phil says, don't do it.

3011
02:38:01,000 --> 02:38:03,600
Speaker 2: Oh, doctor Phil says, I was giving you anonymity as

3012
02:38:03,720 --> 02:38:08,640
Speaker 2: a dude. That yeah, I mean I caught you in

3013
02:38:08,640 --> 02:38:13,080
Speaker 2: the traps. Oh god, yeah, I mean here's the thing.

3014
02:38:13,200 --> 02:38:17,320
Speaker 6: It's now sort of a pastime right in a lot

3015
02:38:17,320 --> 02:38:19,280
Speaker 6: of part of this country. I'm not going to say like, oh,

3016
02:38:19,360 --> 02:38:21,600
Speaker 6: let's shut it all down. But what I can say is,

3017
02:38:21,640 --> 02:38:25,480
Speaker 6: our maps are our data flow are so at nice

3018
02:38:25,520 --> 02:38:28,920
Speaker 6: fine scales that there are management actions that we can have, Like,

3019
02:38:29,120 --> 02:38:32,120
Speaker 6: for example, you have a place that is releasing, and

3020
02:38:32,400 --> 02:38:35,000
Speaker 6: we can find these hot spots for any state and

3021
02:38:35,040 --> 02:38:38,120
Speaker 6: be like, Okay, we're gonna have special seasons in September.

3022
02:38:38,160 --> 02:38:40,640
Speaker 6: We're going to allow you to shoot ten Mallards or.

3023
02:38:40,560 --> 02:38:41,160
Speaker 7: Whatever it is.

3024
02:38:41,200 --> 02:38:44,240
Speaker 6: When you're there, you're just basically trying to push that

3025
02:38:44,400 --> 02:38:48,040
Speaker 6: three four percent survival rate to zero of Mallard's coming

3026
02:38:48,080 --> 02:38:48,520
Speaker 6: out of there.

3027
02:38:48,560 --> 02:38:49,640
Speaker 7: That's what I would suggest.

3028
02:38:49,680 --> 02:38:51,360
Speaker 6: You're not going to shut this thing down like it's

3029
02:38:51,360 --> 02:38:53,400
Speaker 6: a money maker, Like are you going to really know?

3030
02:38:53,879 --> 02:38:57,560
Speaker 6: But there are things that we can do. I think,

3031
02:38:58,480 --> 02:39:01,360
Speaker 6: And I think that segues to can we segue to

3032
02:39:01,440 --> 02:39:02,040
Speaker 6: duck DNA?

3033
02:39:02,080 --> 02:39:03,480
Speaker 8: Now I was gonna.

3034
02:39:04,680 --> 02:39:07,119
Speaker 4: Know that's that's the done, But it's an action item

3035
02:39:07,160 --> 02:39:10,000
Speaker 4: for duck DNA. Like one minute and then we need it,

3036
02:39:10,000 --> 02:39:11,800
Speaker 4: We're gonna still is gonna pull the plug?

3037
02:39:12,400 --> 02:39:19,560
Speaker 9: So literally, where's the rights twitch?

3038
02:39:20,080 --> 02:39:24,800
Speaker 6: So so yeah, So this is a citizen science project

3039
02:39:25,240 --> 02:39:27,440
Speaker 6: that has been in my mind for almost a decade.

3040
02:39:27,840 --> 02:39:31,200
Speaker 6: Mike Brazier, uh and I have been talking who's with

3041
02:39:31,280 --> 02:39:34,119
Speaker 6: Ducks Unlimited over the last couple of years, and then

3042
02:39:34,200 --> 02:39:36,760
Speaker 6: we went forward with this thing called Duck DNA.

3043
02:39:36,879 --> 02:39:40,160
Speaker 7: Go to www dot duck dna dot com.

3044
02:39:40,200 --> 02:39:44,080
Speaker 2: You got the u r L doug DNA Duck DNA. Congratulations, Yeah,

3045
02:39:44,160 --> 02:39:44,720
Speaker 2: well to do you?

3046
02:39:44,840 --> 02:39:48,160
Speaker 6: So do you I have to thank Ashley Tunstall, Uh

3047
02:39:48,600 --> 02:39:52,560
Speaker 6: Kai Victor do you Communications department, it department and development.

3048
02:39:52,560 --> 02:39:53,240
Speaker 2: This is where I play.

3049
02:39:56,520 --> 02:40:00,320
Speaker 6: And my crew, Virgie Muncie, Lauren McFarland's Sara Gonzale. They're

3050
02:40:00,360 --> 02:40:03,080
Speaker 6: all working right now as we speak to get this

3051
02:40:03,120 --> 02:40:03,600
Speaker 6: thing going.

3052
02:40:03,640 --> 02:40:05,359
Speaker 7: So this is a everybody.

3053
02:40:05,400 --> 02:40:07,760
Speaker 6: Go to duck dna dot com and sign up today

3054
02:40:07,760 --> 02:40:10,760
Speaker 6: and you will get a kit with five vials and

3055
02:40:10,800 --> 02:40:12,959
Speaker 6: you could put a tongue in that vial and we

3056
02:40:13,040 --> 02:40:15,280
Speaker 6: will tell you the ancestry of that duck. We will

3057
02:40:15,320 --> 02:40:17,600
Speaker 6: be using it for research purposes, but you will get

3058
02:40:17,600 --> 02:40:24,840
Speaker 6: a certificate because congratulations I did. Yeah, we were supposed

3059
02:40:24,879 --> 02:40:25,480
Speaker 6: to do it on air.

3060
02:40:29,840 --> 02:40:31,720
Speaker 7: I was going to do a show.

3061
02:40:31,760 --> 02:40:33,800
Speaker 6: How I even had to take latex gloves out of

3062
02:40:33,840 --> 02:40:37,320
Speaker 6: my kill kit, uh because I forgot others. But like, uh,

3063
02:40:37,520 --> 02:40:40,320
Speaker 6: so you just put the tongue in there of your

3064
02:40:40,320 --> 02:40:43,000
Speaker 6: favorite duck. If you're you know, a little Jimmy, little

3065
02:40:43,040 --> 02:40:44,920
Speaker 6: Susie shot their first duck, we can give you the

3066
02:40:44,920 --> 02:40:47,080
Speaker 6: ancestry of that. Right now, it's only ducks. Soon we'll

3067
02:40:47,080 --> 02:40:50,240
Speaker 6: do all the geese because we're building the data set,

3068
02:40:50,280 --> 02:40:53,080
Speaker 6: the reference DATUS, after all those eleven Canada geese and

3069
02:40:53,160 --> 02:40:57,080
Speaker 6: all the snow geese and rosses and everybody else. But

3070
02:40:57,200 --> 02:41:00,080
Speaker 6: right now it's ducks and primarily mallards, which we're asking

3071
02:41:00,120 --> 02:41:04,560
Speaker 6: the hunters out there to become hunter scientists and provide

3072
02:41:04,640 --> 02:41:09,600
Speaker 6: their data give us the opportunity to make waterfowl at

3073
02:41:09,640 --> 02:41:12,720
Speaker 6: the forefront of wildlife conservation. Nobody's ever tried something like this.

3074
02:41:12,800 --> 02:41:14,880
Speaker 6: There's duck hunters all over. I know we're at like

3075
02:41:14,959 --> 02:41:18,320
Speaker 6: nine hundred and fifty thousand, but if everybody signs up,

3076
02:41:18,400 --> 02:41:20,800
Speaker 6: there's only three hundred. And I want to thank all

3077
02:41:20,840 --> 02:41:23,600
Speaker 6: the donors to do you that made this possible free

3078
02:41:23,640 --> 02:41:26,080
Speaker 6: this year to sign up free to get your kit.

3079
02:41:26,680 --> 02:41:30,160
Speaker 6: Hopefully we have a mass amount of people and interest

3080
02:41:30,520 --> 02:41:33,560
Speaker 6: and we will make this hopefully viable into the future.

3081
02:41:33,600 --> 02:41:36,440
Speaker 6: But I'm just super excited about it because this has

3082
02:41:36,480 --> 02:41:40,200
Speaker 6: been a dream, right, a mass a mass all the

3083
02:41:40,280 --> 02:41:44,560
Speaker 6: duck hunters to provide at landscape, landscape and time intervals

3084
02:41:44,600 --> 02:41:47,240
Speaker 6: that would be impossible for any researcher to do.

3085
02:41:47,360 --> 02:41:49,600
Speaker 7: Right, we would be able to study.

3086
02:41:49,959 --> 02:41:54,200
Speaker 6: We are there hotspots of hybridization, you know, pintail, mallard pin,

3087
02:41:54,320 --> 02:41:56,800
Speaker 6: you know these types of things as well as obviously

3088
02:41:56,959 --> 02:42:00,280
Speaker 6: my interest right now where this came about is adding

3089
02:42:00,560 --> 02:42:05,200
Speaker 6: a countrywide sampling of mallards, uh to to get get

3090
02:42:05,240 --> 02:42:07,440
Speaker 6: after and get ahead of this question with this whole

3091
02:42:07,440 --> 02:42:09,520
Speaker 6: game farm release and what it means to our wild

3092
02:42:09,600 --> 02:42:11,840
Speaker 6: North American mallards DNA dot com.

3093
02:42:11,879 --> 02:42:12,320
Speaker 2: That's cool.

3094
02:42:12,400 --> 02:42:13,080
Speaker 8: Curtain close.

3095
02:42:13,200 --> 02:42:14,960
Speaker 2: Thank you to doctor Phil. Thank you to the flying

3096
02:42:15,000 --> 02:42:17,560
Speaker 2: be guys. Don't leave it out your vials.

3097
02:42:17,959 --> 02:42:19,760
Speaker 7: Oh I'm govern ten of them.

3098
02:42:19,800 --> 02:42:21,320
Speaker 6: It takes ten seventy one sign up.

3099
02:42:21,680 --> 02:42:23,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, I signed up last night.

3100
02:42:24,040 --> 02:42:24,840
Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor Phil.

3101
02:42:25,120 --> 02:42:35,760
Speaker 6: Thanks, thank you all.

3102
02:42:32,200 --> 02:42:33,560
Speaker 1: Right on.

3103
02:42:39,000 --> 02:42:56,000
Speaker 2: Seal Gray shine like silver in the sun right right alone, sweetheart.

3104
02:42:56,920 --> 02:43:02,160
Speaker 12: We don't beat this, damn of course, taking a new

3105
02:43:02,200 --> 02:43:10,360
Speaker 12: one and ride away. We're done beat this damn Parsiday,

3106
02:43:12,080 --> 02:43:14,960
Speaker 12: so take a new one and ride on.

3107
02:43:24,080 --> 02:43:24,120
Speaker 5: H