1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: If you can die before you die, then you can 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door. 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: I thought I was insane. Yeah, and I didn't know 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: what to do because there was no internet. I don't know, man, 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, I feel like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: my name is Kat. I'm a human first and a 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: licensed therapist second. And right now I'm inviting you into 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: conversations that I hope encourage you to become more curious 13 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the world around you. 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to You Need Therapy. 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat, I am the host, 17 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: and quick reminder before we get into today's episode that 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: although this podcast is hosted by a therapist and it's 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: called You Need Therapy, it does not serve as a 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: replacement or a substitute for any actual mental health services. However, 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: we always hope that these episodes help the people that 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: are listening in some way at some point in their lives. 23 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: I'm recording this on a Friday, and I just have 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: to say before we get into actually what we're going 25 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: to be talking about, I've become obsessed. I don't know 26 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: if obsessed is the right word, but I've really started 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: to love creating these. 28 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: Plant propagation walls. 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: I saw one in a esthetician's office at Hannah Ellis's Skincare. 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: She's actually been on the podcast before, but she put 31 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: one in her studio and it is so beautiful and 32 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: it's been really cool to watch it as it has grown, 33 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: and we were trying to decide what to do with it. 34 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: Weird wall we had in one of the offices at 35 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: my practice, Three Cords Therapy, and I said, wait a second, 36 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: let's put a plant wall in. And if you guys 37 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: don't know what I'm talking about, I have pictures posted 38 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: or videos posted on Three Cords Therapies Instagram. It's just 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: at Three Chords Therapy and it's really cool and it 40 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: had really transformed I think the two I installed my 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: second one today. I did one last week in an 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: office and then we put another one in the waiting room, 43 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 1: or I put another one in the waiting room today, 44 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: and it is a really cool way to add color 45 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: and life into a space without it feeling chaotic. I 46 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: think plants are always a good touch for multiple reasons, 47 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: but it feels very calm and life giving it the 48 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: same way. So big supporter of these walls and if 49 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: you want to make your own wall. I just got 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: them off of Amazon, the little hanging things and in 51 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: one office I use nails to put them in to 52 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: hang them. The other office just used commands trips, which 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: I have not seen if they're actually going to hold up, 54 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: so tbd. But they're really easy to install. I did 55 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: up myself and the only issue I have is I'm 56 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: not really great at measuring things and keeping things straight 57 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: and orderly, but putting them up is. 58 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 2: Not that difficult. 59 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: So if you want to make your own plant wall, 60 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 1: I linked them on my Instagram and also save them 61 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: in my Amazon store that you can find from the 62 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: link in my bio on my Instagram. But they're just 63 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: from Amazon. They came in two days if you have 64 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: Amazon Prime. Super simple, fun way to add some life 65 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: into a space. 66 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: So highly recommend. 67 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: Now that I have finished gassing up plant propagation walls. 68 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: Let's get into what we are here to talk about today. 69 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: So solo episode again. And I teased, I think I 70 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: didn't tease. I think I told you guys what this 71 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: week was going to be about. And it's all about 72 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: how to disagree well, how to fruitful conversations where the 73 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: goal is not to change somebody's mind, and the goal 74 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: is not for your mind to be changed, but the 75 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: goal is just to have a conversation with somebody that 76 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: maybe you don't have the same take with. And this 77 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: doesn't have to just be a debates like on big 78 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: political topics or just some of the very popular debate 79 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: topics in the world. It doesn't have to just be 80 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: about that stuff. This can be about experiences that you've had, 81 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: maybe some arguments you've had based on you guys both 82 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: having different experiences at the same time. It's something that 83 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: I think can be helpful in a lot of different 84 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: kinds of conflicts. And I've talked a lot about our 85 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: current cultures and abilities to sit with differing opinions and 86 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: our constant pursuit of right and wrong many times on 87 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: this podcast. I feel like I bring it up a 88 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: lot because it is part of so many of the 89 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: things that we struggle with in this world. And when 90 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: I think about that, there's one experience since that really 91 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: pops up in my head very vibrantly, and it was 92 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. I actually became, since this experience, 93 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: pretty disappointed in myself after I cut off an opportunity 94 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: for really maybe difficult but also fruitful conversation abruptly because 95 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: the person I was talking to had a different opinion 96 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: than mine. And I can admit now that in that 97 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: instance I just felt incredibly self righteous and protective and correct. 98 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: I just cut off the ability to. 99 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: Have any conversation because I wasn't interested in hearing it. 100 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: But it wasn't just because I wasn't interested in hearing 101 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: this person's opinion or take, although I would have said 102 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: that back then, and it was actually a couple years 103 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: after this happened. I was sitting in a therapist's office 104 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: that I was seeing, not my own office, and I 105 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: brought up through something else, this residual feeling that I 106 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: had of this just achiness from that experience from that moment, 107 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: and to be honest, I doubt the other parties that 108 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: were involved in that conversation even remember and would remember 109 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, But it actually had changed how 110 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: I felt about them because I just created some stories 111 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: and assumed things because I wasn't willing to have a 112 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: conversation and I don't really like that, And that's what 113 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: I kind of brought up in therapy a couple months ago. 114 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: And when we have conversations with people who have different 115 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: opinions or outlooks, I see, and also I'm included in this. 116 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: I see a lot of those conversations coming from a 117 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: place where I'm trying to convince the other person that 118 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm right and they're wrong, versus just helping someone understand 119 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: why I think what I think, or being open to 120 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: understand why somebody else thinks what they think. And if 121 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: we are trying to be right and prove that point, 122 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: then we're not actually able to listen openly. 123 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 2: We don't do that. 124 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: We're listening defensively, and because of that, we're not able 125 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: to better understand our friends because we're listening to find 126 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: ways to prove our points. And I know that I 127 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: lost an opportunity to understand somebody better because I was 128 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: afraid that listening to them would make me not like them. 129 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: But then I was later making up stories about them 130 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: because I didn't have that conversation, and I made up 131 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: how that conversation would have gone in my head, and 132 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: I was really lacking the awareness that you can disagree 133 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: with a person's opinion and still like them, which seems 134 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: so simple but at the same time very difficult. And 135 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: maybe if I understood more about why their opinion was 136 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: what it was and why they thought what they thought, 137 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: then I would be able to know that I can 138 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: like somebody and still love somebody and disagree with them 139 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: on big important things. But if we don't allow ourselves 140 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: to have those conversations, then we don't allow ourselves to 141 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: gain that evidence and believe that that is a true 142 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: thing that can happen. And I know in my upbringing, 143 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: going through school, we were taught how to debate. It 144 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: was part of it was like a project that we 145 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: did in high school. We all had to do it. 146 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: We were literally taught how to have debates. We were 147 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: taught how to win arguments growing up, but we weren't 148 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: taught how to respectfully disagree with somebody, which is very 149 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: interesting to me because just because you can win an argument, 150 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean you were right, So why wouldn't 151 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: we want to know more about how to coexist than how. 152 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: To pick aside and prove it. 153 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: And as I was preparing for this episode, I found 154 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: an article on Psychology Today that it gave like six 155 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: steps and tips to help have conversations with somebody that 156 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: you don't agree with in a healthy, functional way. And 157 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: they were good starting points, but also they were a 158 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: little bit too direct from my taste, So I've actually 159 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: decided not to share those because I like to give 160 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: frameworks that allow people to make things their own and 161 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: allow things to feel authentic to them versus just going 162 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: through the motions. So I kind of reworked some of 163 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: what I've found to give more simple and tangible tips 164 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: versus these linear steps that you have to engage in 165 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: that tell you exactly how to have a conversation. So 166 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: I want you to take these how you want, and 167 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: really if you use them, and when you use them, 168 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: I want you to assess how using these tips they're 169 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: not steps, they're just they're really just suggestions. Assess how 170 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: they allow you to show up more regulated in disagreements, 171 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: because when we are having these really heated disagreements, a 172 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: lot of times we've become disregulated and then we don't 173 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: even actually show up how we really want to show 174 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: up with people. So let's just get into what I 175 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: came up with. So I think for starters, number one, 176 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: what I would really suggest to people is, let's acknowledge 177 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: that we don't have to be persuaded in these conversations, 178 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: and we don't have to persuade the other person. This 179 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: is not about convincing some that you are correct. Disagreements 180 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: can end in disagreeing, and they kind of have to 181 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: have the ability to do that because there's not always 182 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: a right or wrong in situations. Not everything is so 183 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: black and white. So we can hold our beliefs still 184 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: while also listening with respect to our peers, our friends, 185 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: our partners. So I really, in the beginning want to 186 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: encourage people to name the real goal here as understanding 187 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 1: versus convincing. And then number two, I believe it is 188 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: super helpful to kindly acknowledge that you guys do not agree. 189 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: From the beginning, that seems kind of silly. Establishing this 190 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: awareness that you are different might seem a little like 191 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: d obviously at certain times in these conversations. However, what 192 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: it does is it sets you both up to be 193 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: able to show up independently and free to do that. 194 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: It kind of just I think sometimes levels the playing 195 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: field and allows some relief to come. And this can 196 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: sound differently depending on who you are, but an easy 197 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: way to acknowledge this is just to say, hey, I 198 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: know we share different perspectives on what happened, and that's okay. 199 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: I really want to help you understand why I think 200 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: X y Z, and I also. 201 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 2: Want to understand you as well. 202 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: And it may not change our minds on what we think, 203 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: but it might help change how we feel about each other. 204 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: So are you open to that? And again, you can 205 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: say that in your own words, however it would naturally 206 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: come out of your mouth. You don't have to follow 207 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: this exact script. And then the next little tip I have, 208 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: number three is assuming this is someone you respect and 209 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: care for, can you show up and take a stance 210 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: of assumption of good intent to start out with Let's 211 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: just start with that versus starting to kind of play 212 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: that gotcha game and waiting for a chance to step 213 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: in tell them why they're wrong. If we love and 214 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: respect this person and their person, that's important to us, 215 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: and that we have a relationship with that we want 216 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: to foster to any degree. Let's assume that they are 217 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: good meaning people to begin with, versus trying to prove 218 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: why they are bad or wrong or what have you. 219 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: So listen for why what they are saying makes sense 220 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: for them versus you. Their opinion is not about you, 221 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: it's about them, and also vice versa, your opinion is 222 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: about you, So listen to why what they're saying makes 223 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: sense for them versus you and your experience of the world. 224 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: And with that number four, ask for clarification when you 225 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 1: still don't understand something, And remember, understanding here is different 226 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: than agreeing. Stay in the lane of curiosity over judgment. 227 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: I love that as a phrase to replay over and 228 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: over in my head. Stay curious versus judgmental. And remember 229 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: that understanding why someone thinks something does not mean that 230 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: you agree. So we are trying to understand them. We 231 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: are not trying to agree with them. Therefore, when you 232 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: don't understand it, it's not because you haven't been convinced. 233 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: Do not wait to be convinced or wait for them 234 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: to be convinced. That's again go back to the first tip. 235 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: It's really not the goal in how to disagree, Well, 236 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: that's the goal, and how to convince somebody of that 237 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: you're right. Proving your point, right, that's the goal. Proven 238 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: your point. So the next one, number five, which I 239 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: really imagine at some point you're gonna be in one 240 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: of these conversations, Like talking about them on this podcast 241 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: seems really like, oh, this is so light and fun, 242 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: and disagreeing can be so beautiful and care free and 243 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: oh so soothing. Okay, but probably not. There's gonna be 244 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: a lot of instances where you're having these conversations where 245 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: you are like, oh my gosh, this is driving me crazy. 246 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: What they're saying is making me feel crazy. I want 247 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: to yell, I want to tell them, I want to 248 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: just say something unfiltered. It's not all going to feel 249 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: really rainbows and butterflies. There's going to be tension. And 250 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: when somebody says something that to you feels outrageous or 251 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: crazy or like something that you'd want to be like, 252 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: are you kidding me? That's okay. When somebody says something 253 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: wild that you think is wild, that is okay. This 254 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: is going to happen, I assume, and it's not our 255 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: job to criticize their views here, and it's totally cool 256 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: to say, hey, I hear you say you believe x 257 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: y Z. 258 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 2: Because of ABC and then leave it there. 259 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: It might still feel crazy to you to say that, 260 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: but again that's not the point. You're trying to understand somebody, 261 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: so that will probably be really hard. You'll want to 262 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: defend and disprove and educate in all the things, and 263 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: you can do that, but again that would not align 264 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: with the goal of understanding somebody versus being right, So 265 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: always go back to that goal. You're not trying to 266 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: convince them that they're wrong or that they are crazy. 267 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: The goal is to understand why they think what they think. 268 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: So I hear you say you believe blank because of blank? Boom, 269 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: got it, Which leads us to the next little tip. 270 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: When necessary, So this is number six. But when when necessary, 271 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: especially when you think something is wild and out or 272 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: you're justn't crazy, do repeat back what you say that 273 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: same sentence, right, I hear you say you believe x 274 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: y Z because of ABC, Repeat it back and say 275 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: did I get it right? Because a lot of times, 276 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: when we have a lot of emotion in conversations and 277 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: when things do feel wild to us, we start hearing 278 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: stories in our head that actually have not come out 279 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: of this person's mouth. 280 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: So it's very, very very important to. 281 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: Say, I hear you say exactly what they said versus 282 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: how you interpreted it, and if you interpreted it incorrectly 283 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: and you said something they didn't say, get the chance 284 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: to say, oh, no, that's I didn't say that. Let 285 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: me try again, and then they can say it again, 286 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: and then you can say back to them, Okay, so 287 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: I heard. 288 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: You say da da da da da da da da. 289 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 2: Did I get it right? 290 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: And do that until they say, yeah, you got it. 291 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: And again, this is I'm repeating what I heard, not 292 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: what I made up about what I heard. And this 293 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: will help you keep in line with that goal and 294 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: allow those emotions to be there and acknowledge that they're 295 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: there and they're going to come up. But I need 296 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: to slow myself down before I start making stories and 297 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: get confused not about what they're actually saying, but about 298 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: the story that I'm making up about what they're saying. 299 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: So repeat and ask for clarification. And then the last thing, 300 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: number seven, the seventh tip that I want to offer 301 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: to you guys, is summarize anything new that you learned 302 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: that actually might have been helpful to you, or that 303 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: actually might have been interesting, anything that you got out 304 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: of that conversation. And again, this does not mean that 305 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: you are then agreeing with them and they've changed your mind. 306 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: It can just be like, oh, wow, I actually learned 307 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: something in this conversation, and I want to thank you 308 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: for that. So, wow, that's really interesting what you shared 309 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: about drug overdoses. I was not aware of that, and 310 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: I actually really do want to learn more about that. 311 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: And I also really appreciate the chance to learn more 312 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: about you, even if I don't fully agree with everything 313 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: you're saying. So you get to offer a little bit 314 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: of Hey, this wasn't just us disagreeing. We both can 315 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: get something out of this. We both can understand each 316 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: other better, and hey, I might learn something along the way. 317 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: And just because I learned something along the way doesn't 318 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: mean I'm saying I agree with you. It's just saying, hey, 319 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: this was helpful and I appreciate it. So I really 320 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: think it can be helpful at the end to acknowledge 321 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: things that you have learned. 322 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 2: Even though you have not totally. 323 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: Decided that you now agree with what they're saying. It 324 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be this all or nothing in black 325 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: and white situation, because rarely it is. 326 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: Okay. 327 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: So those are my seven tips, and I do want 328 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: to say I realize that this is easier said than done, 329 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: and it's going to take some practice in some time 330 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: for this to feel natural if you have never thought about, 331 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: or learned or attempted to have fruitful conversations when you disagree. 332 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: And I also want to acknowledge that it can be 333 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: really difficult, near impossible to have a respectful conversation. 334 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: On your own. 335 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is the other party 336 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: involved in these conversations really also needs to come from 337 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: a similar place for this to be fruitful, and if 338 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: they can't, that is totally okay. And it's okay for 339 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: you to say, hey, I really want to be able 340 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: to talk about this and learn from you and have 341 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 1: a conversation with you here. However, I can really only 342 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: do that if we both agree to aim for understanding 343 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: versus a win on either of our side. And so 344 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 1: if we can't agree on a goal for this conversation, 345 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if it would be really helpful for 346 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: us to have it, because then it can kind of 347 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: make things worse if your goals are not aligning in 348 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: those conversations. And it's also okay to ask for a 349 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: break when you need it, even if you guys both 350 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: agreed on a goal for this conversation, because things can 351 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: still get heated and heavy, and when we enter into 352 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: our survival brain, we lose our full capacity to reason 353 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 1: and allow understanding to be a goal when we are 354 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: operating from a place of pure emotion. So ask for 355 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: a break, and it doesn't have to be a thirty 356 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: minute break, and be like, hey, I feel myself getting 357 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: really hot, I feel myself getting really jumbled. Hey, I 358 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: feel myself getting overwhelmed. Give me a second. I'm gonna reply, 359 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: and I want to continue to have this conversation, but 360 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: I just need a second. And you can do that 361 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: in the conversation and it can be like a minute, 362 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: or you can just like, hey, I'm gonna go walk 363 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: outside and take a couple of breasts and then. 364 00:19:59,520 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 2: Come back in. 365 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: I say a lot of times in my conversation set 366 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: are difficult, and it doesn't even have to be one 367 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: where where I'm disagreeing with somebody, but just difficult conversations 368 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: because I have really had to learn how to slow 369 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: myself down sometimes because I can just go at it. 370 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: I try to be very slow. 371 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: To respond, and I let the person know, like, hey, 372 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: I'm not not responding. I'm gathering my thoughts before I 373 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: say something because I want to make sure I'm saying 374 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: what I want to say. So that's another little thing 375 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: you can do. Okay, So I know this was a 376 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: shorter episode. However, I also think this can be a 377 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: really helpful episode for the majority of people out there, 378 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: because we are all going to have a disagreement with 379 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: somebody at some point in our lives, and why wouldn't 380 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: we want to be able to do that well, So, 381 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: like I said, encourage you to take this as a practice. 382 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: How can I get better at having these conversations versus 383 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: how can I be perfect at disagreeing because that it 384 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: does not exist? And just be really kind to yourself 385 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: as you practice new ways to communicate in a way 386 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: that is going to work better for you in the 387 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: long run. If you would like to follow the podcast, 388 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: if you would like to follow me, you can do 389 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: that at You Need Therapy podcast on Instagram. You can 390 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: do that at Kat dot Defada on Instagram, and you 391 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: can also follow my therapy practice at three Quarts Therapy 392 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: on Instagram. If you have any questions, feedback, thoughts that 393 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: you want to share, you can email me Katherine kat 394 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: h r y M at you Need Therapy podcast dot 395 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: com And if you have not done so yet and 396 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: maybe you're a new listener, I would love love, love, 397 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: love love in the season of giving and holiday cheer. 398 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: If you guys would rate and review this podcast specifically 399 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, you can do that. Spotify 400 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: is at the top, Apple it is probably more towards 401 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: the bottom. If you want to leave a kind little 402 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: comment what you like, some constructive feedback if you feel necessary. 403 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: I also am very open to that kind of stuff 404 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: through email as well. If you want to share something 405 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: that you liked or something that didn't sit well, or 406 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: just some feedback in general, you can always do that. 407 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: Always open to it because I always want to learn 408 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: and grow, just how the people listening to this podcast 409 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: usually are listening because they also want to learn and grow. 410 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: So until Wednesday, when I come back for couch Talks, 411 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: I hope you guys have the day you need to 412 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: have and I will talk to you soon.