Speaker 1: There were plenty of options for our first graphic novel
Speaker 1: adaptation to choose from, but I think there are very
Speaker 1: few that would be more appropriate for November than v
Speaker 1: for Vendetta. This is part two of our conversation and
Speaker 1: we were left with several questions last week, like what
Speaker 1: is going to happen to Evie? And is v secretly
Speaker 1: a theater kid? That line and it is like you
Speaker 1: are already in prison, Evie. I just showed you the
Speaker 1: bars every every polly Side theater major. He's a theater
Speaker 1: major who took one polly Side class. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: Popcorn Book Club. This week we continue our discussion on
Speaker 1: Viva Vendetta with book two, this Vicious Cabaret. I'm Dani Schwartz,
Speaker 1: joined as always by Jennifer Right, Tantran Karamadanqua, and Melissa Hunter.
Speaker 1: Welcome back, guys. Hi Hi. He right off that, I
Speaker 1: want to say I love that this star with a song. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: There's a lot of work involved and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I have to read sheet music and look at comic panels.
Speaker 1: There's a lot that's happening. And it goes again into
Speaker 1: the theatricality that we talked about last week, and I
Speaker 1: like the title Vicious Cabaret. It did also take me
Speaker 1: nine chapters into this book book too, to realize that
Speaker 1: all of the chapters start with a letter V. I
Speaker 1: am stupid that until you said so, I'm sorry. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna brag and say I figured it out right away.
Speaker 1: Can I read sheet music? Because I can't, and I
Speaker 1: don't have a piano. I can, but I am not
Speaker 1: good at it. So I kind of looked at it
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that's cute, it's music, and
Speaker 1: did no effort to figure out what it sounded like.
Speaker 1: I'm sure if we went online we would find super
Speaker 1: fans have performed this song in its entirety. It's kind
Speaker 1: even a little bit. It's kind of funny, little like
Speaker 1: ironic racist ditty, you know, like an ironic ditty about
Speaker 1: racism in the way that the film and musical Cabaret are. Uh. Yes,
Speaker 1: I thought it was like a good song. Good for
Speaker 1: you be writing a song for no one to hear,
Speaker 1: I guess except Ev maybe at this point he can
Speaker 1: hear it's for him, Dana. Some people do things for themselves. No,
Speaker 1: you have to document everything, so no, you don't independent
Speaker 1: and self possessed. He can just do things. It's all
Speaker 1: self care, Dana. He does have an un level disco
Speaker 1: room in his in his bungalow. To your point about
Speaker 1: documenting everything, though, the fact that it is sheet music
Speaker 1: is interesting because it does leave a paper trail for
Speaker 1: people to then follow, and that's kind of one of
Speaker 1: the things about fascist governments is that they don't want
Speaker 1: art first of all. So it's interesting that it's music,
Speaker 1: not a manifesto. It's a song. And songs also because
Speaker 1: you can hear them as well as write them down,
Speaker 1: do contribute to oral tradition. You can't take away some
Speaker 1: of these memory. One thing that I do love about
Speaker 1: v as a character, I think he's a very fun
Speaker 1: character just in terms of everything, all of his weirdness
Speaker 1: and contradictions. He's someone who believes that the revolution I
Speaker 1: mean to quote him should have dancing, but he like
Speaker 1: fundamentally loves the power of art, and he's like, this
Speaker 1: is what we're fighting for. This is, you know, movies
Speaker 1: and songs and dancing. Like I I do think that
Speaker 1: that's always an important an important thing to remember and
Speaker 1: dramatic artistic yeah, singing murder daddy, Yeah, this goes right
Speaker 1: into murder daddy stuff, because it goes from there into
Speaker 1: them dancing, and she's like, I've never thanked you should
Speaker 1: be and he's like, don't fancy me and then kicks
Speaker 1: kicks her out and then he says I'm not your father, ef,
Speaker 1: which maybe I don't know, and then I'm sorry, was
Speaker 1: he a broom? At the end? What happened? He made
Speaker 1: like a dummy? A dummy, Yeah, like a scarecrow. I meant,
Speaker 1: I said dummy, which is a really beautiful I think
Speaker 1: foreshadowing of the end of this book, which we won't
Speaker 1: get into the details yet, but um, there's this sort
Speaker 1: of elaborate ruse that happens where she's outside, she's been blindfolded,
Speaker 1: and now she thinks she's talking to me, and then
Speaker 1: it turns out it's not him at all, and that
Speaker 1: there's been a trick that's been played on her, and
Speaker 1: she is sort of she has rug pulled from under her.
Speaker 1: She's like, wait, I'm alone. She realizes, boy, she's gonna
Speaker 1: have a lot of tricks played on her. What a
Speaker 1: way to be ghosted If someone did that to me
Speaker 1: when I was dating them, and I like walked out
Speaker 1: and then they were a coat rack. This is also
Speaker 1: the lowest tech of all of his little little thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then she's just out in the world
Speaker 1: for herself. He also must have recorded in advance because
Speaker 1: then when she's out on the street and listen to
Speaker 1: him talk, he says things like I'm not your father, Evie.
Speaker 1: So presumably the day before he was inside with a
Speaker 1: recorder planning your your father is dead, Evie, I'm not
Speaker 1: your father, waiting and hold a beat one too. He
Speaker 1: definitely recorded a few times because he didn't get the
Speaker 1: timing right. He had to imagine what she would say
Speaker 1: bad kind of play out a different a few options,
Speaker 1: do you all? I like thinking too, that she's walking
Speaker 1: around around him, like in the same area that he's recording,
Speaker 1: so he has to be like, I'm not your dead,
Speaker 1: just like sneaking in recordings. The logistics do not hold
Speaker 1: up if you think about them for more than four
Speaker 1: seconds of anything in this book, And I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that about it. It's but it's like refrigerator
Speaker 1: refrigerator logic, right, like logic and movies and visas and books.
Speaker 1: I've been taught, But maybe I think people have different
Speaker 1: explanations but I've been told that a movie or screenplay
Speaker 1: with refrigerator logic means it as you watch it, you're like,
Speaker 1: that's so cool, and then as you walk away to
Speaker 1: the refrigerator to like get a drink or snack, you're like,
Speaker 1: you start wait a second. In writer's rooms, I've heard
Speaker 1: two versions of it. It's that or it's that like
Speaker 1: you put something in the refrigerator and then you don't
Speaker 1: think about what happens to it. But in between the
Speaker 1: time that you go go and check it out when
Speaker 1: the movie Sausage Party came in exactly, it's basically about
Speaker 1: writers not wanting to do the do extra work. That's
Speaker 1: what it is. Um Yeah, So to say the big
Speaker 1: thing that sort of happened next and I want to
Speaker 1: get to the Jordan's Tower break in and then Gordon
Speaker 1: and then Evis end of book two thing which is big,
Speaker 1: and we're going to get to that before we do.
Speaker 1: Before we dive in, we get in the head of
Speaker 1: Rosemary Almond, who is this poor woman who's a violent,
Speaker 1: abusive husband was murdered by the um good good but
Speaker 1: now she's sort of bad for her she feels sort
Speaker 1: of helpless. And then creepy co worker Dascomb, who I
Speaker 1: thought was gay but or maybe it's gay or by
Speaker 1: you don't get to be gay. Oh but like in
Speaker 1: this not you. You could be gay if you wanted.
Speaker 1: But in this book yes, in Creepy Infravenda England and
Speaker 1: in Norse Fire England. But Roger Dascombe, who was like
Speaker 1: had a prickly competition with her now dead husband, hits
Speaker 1: on her and kind of like makes her, uh makes
Speaker 1: her date him, and she sort of has to know
Speaker 1: she's not getting any state support. Like it's made really
Speaker 1: clear that the only and she's going to survive is
Speaker 1: by finding another husband. And we've kind of seen what
Speaker 1: the alternative is for women like Evie who don't have
Speaker 1: traditional male support in their lives in this society. Um,
Speaker 1: she's going to have to prostitute herself to someone and
Speaker 1: we will find out. Luckily there's a cabaret and uh
Speaker 1: we hope she can dance, because that is our only
Speaker 1: career options Mary. This is Rosemary storyline. That's this is
Speaker 1: what we get. She's in a downward spiral from like
Speaker 1: the abused wife of a high party official to having
Speaker 1: no options. I mean, she's also a really good representation
Speaker 1: of kind of the casualty of these war that he's
Speaker 1: killing these people and we feel good about it, but
Speaker 1: there are people left behind, and people who might have
Speaker 1: been completely innocent whose lives get a lot worse as
Speaker 1: a result of beast murders. That's the frustrating thing I
Speaker 1: feel about revolution is that there's always like people are like,
Speaker 1: we need a revolution, we need a revolution, and they
Speaker 1: don't disagree, but like, even bloodless revolutions still have casualties.
Speaker 1: And it is interesting to me that she's sort of
Speaker 1: in the position of if any of you watched her
Speaker 1: read The Handmaid's Tale, like the wife of them, the
Speaker 1: guy whose name I'm forgetting now, where it's like Serena
Speaker 1: Joy where she is in a while her husband was alive,
Speaker 1: she was sort of in a rarefied position where she
Speaker 1: was sort of comfortable within this system. But this is
Speaker 1: a system that is incredibly harsh to women and which
Speaker 1: you know, options don't exist for them, and so once
Speaker 1: that support drives up, she is very helpless, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's the women who sort of like
Speaker 1: find ways to help themselves within the system and then
Speaker 1: unfortunately do or don't realize that the system is not
Speaker 1: designed to help them. Yeah. Uh but back to our
Speaker 1: So that's sort of happening in the sideline, and you're like,
Speaker 1: I bet these stories are gonna come to a head
Speaker 1: at some point. Uh. But we get a V story
Speaker 1: where he breaks into the Jordan Tower, which is their
Speaker 1: like transmission tower, and pulls that same goddamn stunt or
Speaker 1: he has a fake V mask he was practicing. He
Speaker 1: he has a stunt coordinator, a stunt coach that he
Speaker 1: works with for all of these masks. Flip flip a use.
Speaker 1: You know I love about the break into Georgian Tower
Speaker 1: is that it starts with the security guards watching a
Speaker 1: terrible TV show they're watching like Storm Saxton, which is
Speaker 1: just about off white men forcefully gripping a blond lady
Speaker 1: named Heidi and saying that he's going to kill black people. Um,
Speaker 1: and then comes in and does something that is so
Speaker 1: much more theatrically interesting. Yes, and Coroma's face. I wish
Speaker 1: the Pike else can see. It is the most racist,
Speaker 1: uh propaganda since Brave New World, I would say, and
Speaker 1: the thing but like, I want to compare this to
Speaker 1: Brave New World because I feel like Brave New World
Speaker 1: I felt like all this Huxley was a fucking racist,
Speaker 1: but not that the world was racist, but that he
Speaker 1: built a world that was racist because he was racist.
Speaker 1: And this felt like Alan Moore was documenting the way
Speaker 1: that if our society continues to go unchecked, the racism
Speaker 1: will continue to jump out of society. And it didn't
Speaker 1: at any point feel like Alan Moore is a racist,
Speaker 1: and in fact, it felt like he was very aware
Speaker 1: of the position that he holds as a white person
Speaker 1: and the position that white supremacy holds in our society. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. And storm Sex in itself is a
Speaker 1: very Nazi name, like Storm is the thing that's associated
Speaker 1: with like you know, the Daily Storm or like the
Speaker 1: Q Store, like like neo Nazis used storm Front. Yeah
Speaker 1: it's like but like it's like Nazi thing. And and
Speaker 1: Saxon is like like Anglo Saxon, like it is just
Speaker 1: like his name is like Nazi mcnazi And yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not subtle, but it's funny. I feel like Nazi mcnazi
Speaker 1: would be a little great propaganda cartoon for like Nazis
Speaker 1: for like a little child nazis Nazi mcnazi. We ad
Speaker 1: mentioned the Nazi Mcnazi. We are not pitching that as
Speaker 1: an idea just to letting every No, no, I don't
Speaker 1: want to. I am pitching that as a satire, sort
Speaker 1: of like a um, what's the what's the Nazi one
Speaker 1: with with like a springtime or the producers? Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's his name. I just completely butchered and sorry Jews,
Speaker 1: Jews and people of color. I think can make fun
Speaker 1: of Hitler. That's my I like when they do that.
Speaker 1: That's fun for me. Yes, people, I like when vu
Speaker 1: The broadcast that he chooses almost feels like a sketch
Speaker 1: comedy pitch where he's like, I'm firing England. I am
Speaker 1: your boss, England is my employee. I'm gonna fire her. Um,
Speaker 1: that whole that whole little section was incredibly theatrical and
Speaker 1: so fun to watch. And again another highly produced. He
Speaker 1: who was the camera operator on that maybe set that
Speaker 1: up on pay at a ring light and he had
Speaker 1: a type section. You know, fortunately the contouring already came
Speaker 1: with the mask. I didn't have to go through and
Speaker 1: make up. Yeah, he does this, he does this really
Speaker 1: cute little speech. She doesn't sketch, and then he jumps
Speaker 1: through the glass as they shoot him or vice versa.
Speaker 1: I guess he sort of comes. He maybe throws the
Speaker 1: fake V dummy through and gets away because he pulled
Speaker 1: it off. Meanwhile, our our other detective, detective Finch punches
Speaker 1: dead Almonds replacement whose name is Creedy, who's even creepier
Speaker 1: than Almond. Um. And so now he's on a nice
Speaker 1: little break in uh in somewhere because he punched a coworker,
Speaker 1: which are not allowed to do m hm um. And Evie.
Speaker 1: Evie also has this sort of sad moment where she
Speaker 1: and Rosemary are sort of having these parallel nights where
Speaker 1: they realize how hard it is to be a woman
Speaker 1: alone in this society. And so she starts taking up
Speaker 1: with this old guy named Gordon Gordon who love Gordon.
Speaker 1: Just dude, What did he make of Gordon? Melissa? I
Speaker 1: was just like, he's just a dude, right, He's just
Speaker 1: a dude. I think, I mean, I think he has
Speaker 1: some criminal relations because he has people like knocking at
Speaker 1: his door. Um. But he takes her in as like
Speaker 1: a like just she's sleeping in the second bedroom. I
Speaker 1: think out of like the kindness of that, She's like,
Speaker 1: I think he implied oh, I thought they didn't want
Speaker 1: In the movie, they weren't happy about it. Okay, No,
Speaker 1: they have in this it looks like two this picture
Speaker 1: right to show. It was like it's like out of
Speaker 1: like an eighties like rom com, like up Here we Go,
Speaker 1: Like it kind of looks like Helen Hunt a little
Speaker 1: bit ages all of a sudden, evis forty in this
Speaker 1: section of the and then she becomes baby at the
Speaker 1: end of the book too. Um. But yeah, they they
Speaker 1: have a little suburban time and he's like I need
Speaker 1: to get I need to use that second room and
Speaker 1: she's like, okay, I'll leave. He's like, you don't have
Speaker 1: to leave. There's my bedrooms. I thought you didn't want
Speaker 1: to and then they have intense sex. It seems like, well,
Speaker 1: I feel very weird about the sexualization of Evin, sort
Speaker 1: of like it seems like Evie on one hand, like
Speaker 1: you know, needed sort of a man in this society
Speaker 1: because being a woman on your own sex. But it's
Speaker 1: like kind of cute. I don't like that. Ellen Moore again,
Speaker 1: it is like it's daddy issues daddy, non murder daddy,
Speaker 1: non murder daddy. That's better than the murder daddy. Get
Speaker 1: murdered like immediately they like, I think it's like eight
Speaker 1: weeks six weeks later, up he gets murdered through a door. Um,
Speaker 1: and then she's on her own again. I Am going
Speaker 1: to go and make a box of chocolates for a statue.
Speaker 1: I'll be right back. This is when we meet um
Speaker 1: Ali something, who's the the Ali Harper, who's the Scottish
Speaker 1: gang leader. So we just sort of now enact to
Speaker 1: you know, the players are coming to the board in
Speaker 1: a chess metaphor and one of the you know, if
Speaker 1: if Gordon is watch in Queen's game, I have answering
Speaker 1: playing chess on chess dot com. Um, I'm really bad
Speaker 1: at it. But like, so the other players now are
Speaker 1: Ali Harper, who's the Scottish gangster, Creedy who's the new
Speaker 1: head of the police, who's paying off Harper for like
Speaker 1: when the coup comes, you and your your gang members
Speaker 1: will be behind me, and then uh, yeah, the gang
Speaker 1: kills Gordon. Evie tries to get revenge because she's been
Speaker 1: having a hell of a sixteen years. Life has been
Speaker 1: hard for Evy, but before she can shoot, she is
Speaker 1: uh apprehended. So, uh, Jennifer, do you want to take
Speaker 1: it from there. About what happens to Evie after she
Speaker 1: is caught trying to murder who they think is a
Speaker 1: party member creedy, but she was actually going for it
Speaker 1: the I think she was going for the gang guy.
Speaker 1: She loves to become the murder daddy. I'm going to
Speaker 1: let somebody else to take it from there, Um, Melissa,
Speaker 1: you want to take it. Sure, So she comes into
Speaker 1: her power and become tries to become her own murder daddy,
Speaker 1: and you just needed to repeat that line. And then
Speaker 1: she gets got by an anonymous person. Um. And then
Speaker 1: she has a funky dream. Um, such a fun real,
Speaker 1: funky dream. A daddy is your dreams. Daddy is totally unnecessary.
Speaker 1: Daddy is unnecessary. And then she's sorry quick energy felt
Speaker 1: bad that I did not understand what was happening in
Speaker 1: the funky dreams. So I'm glad that that was not
Speaker 1: deeply It was like an amalgamation of like it was
Speaker 1: the priest, her dad, it was v I think a
Speaker 1: little bit. And she's like, she's about to have sex
Speaker 1: with her dad. It's allah great. It's bad dream. I
Speaker 1: will say on the record, I think most dream sequences
Speaker 1: are bad and unnecessary. I agree. So she has a
Speaker 1: weird dream, it goes on for too long. She wakes
Speaker 1: up in a prison cell and she's with like, there
Speaker 1: are these like guys that are interrogating her, and she's
Speaker 1: blindfolded and she's starved and tortured. And then she's, uh,
Speaker 1: does she shave her? They shave her head? Um, And
Speaker 1: then she like she's like basically on the brink of death. Um,
Speaker 1: and I'm just kind of flipping through. So then she
Speaker 1: reads this letter and maybe someone else should pick up.
Speaker 1: So she finds in her prison cell handwritten letter. So
Speaker 1: a few a few just like details I think you
Speaker 1: but that I want to just make clear is she
Speaker 1: is kidnapped and put in a what we what we
Speaker 1: spoiler alert believed to be a government prison. You know,
Speaker 1: the government stuff is on the wall, the guards are there.
Speaker 1: She has been captured by the government and they're interrogating
Speaker 1: her like you were, you know, trying to shoot involved
Speaker 1: with creating you're involved in this murder. You know, you're
Speaker 1: involved at this terrorist named V. We have you know,
Speaker 1: CCTV of you and the terrorists V. They're trying to
Speaker 1: enshow her. The video I think was really key in
Speaker 1: terms of making her belief because this government has it's
Speaker 1: the I, the nose, the mouth, the fingers, all of that,
Speaker 1: and it's like very clearly the eye. So they know
Speaker 1: she's associated with her. But now she's in prison. Uh,
Speaker 1: they you know, shave her, they torture her, they're interrogating her.
Speaker 1: They like I don't know what it's called, like waterboarding
Speaker 1: when they put your head in like like forward water boarding.
Speaker 1: And then she finds like a scrap of toilet paper
Speaker 1: in the corner scrolled up and that's when like a
Speaker 1: in a like mouse hole in the corner, and that's
Speaker 1: where she gets, uh this story, And Karama, do you
Speaker 1: want to give us Valerie's story if you don't mind, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't mind it all. Valerie story is actually one
Speaker 1: of my favorite parts. And again not to get too
Speaker 1: far into the movie, but it did feel very much
Speaker 1: the same in the movie, and I'm glad because I
Speaker 1: think it's so powerful the way that it exists. So
Speaker 1: there's a there's been a rat in eb cell this
Speaker 1: whole time, and that's sort of like the repeated thing
Speaker 1: in the beginning. She's like, there's a rat, there's a rat.
Speaker 1: There's a rat. And in the little hidie hole where
Speaker 1: the rat you really is that she's focusing on. That's
Speaker 1: sort of like the only thing that she has to
Speaker 1: think about other than torture is this piece of toilet
Speaker 1: paper and Valerie is the name of the person who
Speaker 1: writes it. Evie does that thing that I hate where
Speaker 1: she goes straight to the end to find out what's
Speaker 1: going to happen, and see said it's signed Valerie, and
Speaker 1: she says, I don't know who you are, and uh,
Speaker 1: I may never see you. And I can't convince you
Speaker 1: that this is real and it's not one of their tricks.
Speaker 1: But this is my story and I have to tell it.
Speaker 1: This is the only autobiography I'm ever going to write.
Speaker 1: I hit a tiny pencil inside my body so they
Speaker 1: couldn't find it, and I'm writing this on toilet paper.
Speaker 1: And she talks about how um she was born in
Speaker 1: the fifties, in the late fifties, and she fell in
Speaker 1: love in middle school with this girl named Sarah, and
Speaker 1: she got a talking to at school. They're like, this
Speaker 1: is normal for young girls to sort of have these
Speaker 1: strong feelings for each other. You'll outgrow it, and it
Speaker 1: says Sarah outgrew it. I didn't. And then she takes
Speaker 1: a woman home to meet her parents. Her parents disown
Speaker 1: her and they say that she's broken their heart, and
Speaker 1: then she's like, I don't care. I have to be
Speaker 1: true to myself and like, I have my integrity and
Speaker 1: what's important to me is my integrity and I and
Speaker 1: she moved out to become a movie star. And actually,
Speaker 1: one of the things I really appreciated about this was
Speaker 1: earlier in the book. In book one, there was a
Speaker 1: poster for a movie called The Salt Flats, and I
Speaker 1: was like, what does that seem familiar to me? And
Speaker 1: because I had seen the movie before and they mentioned it.
Speaker 1: And so she started in this movie called the Salt Flats,
Speaker 1: and she met the love of her life, this woman
Speaker 1: named Ruth, on set for the Salt Flats, and they
Speaker 1: moved in together and there were roses all the time,
Speaker 1: and she was so happy. And then they started to
Speaker 1: take people away, and they were taking away black people,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure they were taking away other people of
Speaker 1: color too, but I think they mostly say black people
Speaker 1: in this Uh, they were taking away black people, and
Speaker 1: they were taking away queer people. So they got Ruth
Speaker 1: while she was out shopping and Ruth then implicated Valerie
Speaker 1: and said, she seduced me. Uh, this is where she is,
Speaker 1: but they tortured I have to say they did. It's
Speaker 1: not like waiting to give it up. Yeah, she was
Speaker 1: immediately after exactly. Yeah, And sort of Valerie ties that
Speaker 1: back to the idea of integrity, and she's like, she
Speaker 1: gave away that last inch of herself, her integrity, and
Speaker 1: that's what Ruth couldn't live with. And I will say
Speaker 1: Valerie also does not blame Ruth for it. She specifically says,
Speaker 1: I don't blame her. I understand. Uh. So Valerie talks
Speaker 1: about being in this cell and this is the moment
Speaker 1: where I realized reading it. I already knew because I
Speaker 1: had seen the movie. I know what happens, but this
Speaker 1: is the moment where I realized, reading, oh, this is
Speaker 1: not this is not what's what I think it is.
Speaker 1: She mentions another lesbian who's there who has recently died,
Speaker 1: named Rita, and Rita is also specifically mentioned in What's
Speaker 1: Her Face Is Diary Delia's diary from Mark Hill, and
Speaker 1: she talks about how she has vestigial fingers inside of
Speaker 1: her body, which was really gross in a detail that
Speaker 1: I've remembered. So that's when you sort of realize, wait,
Speaker 1: this isn't actually a prison or some this is a
Speaker 1: trick of some sort something that is such a subtle
Speaker 1: detail that I did not realize until I really reread
Speaker 1: it literally this morning to prep for the podcast. Like
Speaker 1: that is a tiny and subtle detail that hat tip
Speaker 1: tip of the hat to you, Karama, thank you. I
Speaker 1: also was like, nobody's name is Rita, so it's the
Speaker 1: same person, not nobody's name is Rita. If you're a
Speaker 1: listener in your name is Rita. No offense, but like
Speaker 1: it's not a super common name. I've probably met like
Speaker 1: two Rita's in my life. My sixth grade history teacher
Speaker 1: and this girl that I know who's a friend of
Speaker 1: a friend and her name is not even Rita legally,
Speaker 1: her name is infant because her parents never filled in
Speaker 1: her birth certificate, which is really fun fact. But back
Speaker 1: to the um. So, Valerie Um talks about how we
Speaker 1: can never give up our integrity and she talks about
Speaker 1: how um, you know, she was glad that there was
Speaker 1: a time where she had roses in her life and
Speaker 1: she wished that she could kiss the person in the
Speaker 1: cell next to her um and like how keeping holding
Speaker 1: onto her integrity is the one thing that has kept
Speaker 1: her going. So then ev is then taken into a
Speaker 1: room and they're like, will you sign this statement that
Speaker 1: says that you were kidnapped against your will and um,
Speaker 1: sexually tortured by enforced to commit terrorist acts by the
Speaker 1: man code named V. And she was like, no, I'm good.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that because that's her integrity.
Speaker 1: She's like, no, that didn't happen, Like I didn't mean
Speaker 1: to she didn't mean to kill the bishop, but like,
Speaker 1: that's not what happened. It wasn't like that. And then
Speaker 1: they say that they're going to execute her, and she says, well,
Speaker 1: that's fine then, and I'd rather go out behind the
Speaker 1: chemical sheds and get shot. And then the guard says,
Speaker 1: then you have nothing left of fear. You're free, and
Speaker 1: she's like wait what And then she's just able to
Speaker 1: leave her cell So I'll leave it there and we
Speaker 1: can keep And he's a toy, life sized toy army man.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he has a literal dummy. Yeah, so be
Speaker 1: very good at making fake people and propping. It is
Speaker 1: infuriating to me that he has taken like a teenage girl,
Speaker 1: and no matter what, he has kept her in a
Speaker 1: cell in shape dollar hair and towards your psychologically psychologically yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: and then she gets to walk out into his beautiful
Speaker 1: house and have him say basically that this was for
Speaker 1: her own good. He goes basically, you're welcome, You're welcome.
Speaker 1: He has that Maui moment from a while. He's like,
Speaker 1: what can I say, chapt You're welcome, and she's like,
Speaker 1: the funk is wrong with you. He's like, you literally
Speaker 1: have been torturing me. Um, I have to say. At
Speaker 1: one point he says, happiness is a prison. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: all I definitely. I actually had a teacher in college
Speaker 1: who said something that was a lot like something in
Speaker 1: this section where she said the opposite of love is freedom,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's really interesting as an idea.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I think the opposite of it again.
Speaker 1: And I say that, but yes, sociobists have no competitor
Speaker 1: to love and they're very free. UM like that line,
Speaker 1: and it is like you are already in prison, Evie.
Speaker 1: I just showed you the bars every every poly side
Speaker 1: theater majors guys like he's a theater major who took
Speaker 1: one poll side class. But I have things that I
Speaker 1: want to say about Vall. I don't want to say
Speaker 1: them right now, but I think, okay, I will say
Speaker 1: one wick thing, which is that I do think this work.
Speaker 1: This book works much much better symbolically than literally, which
Speaker 1: is because when you start thinking about it literally, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is deeply fucked up. So you just have to
Speaker 1: be like, it's a it's a allegory, like the boy,
Speaker 1: I mean, and she is like awakened at the end,
Speaker 1: and we can get into that. But that's what I
Speaker 1: like about it is that v is not a good guy,
Speaker 1: like he's you know, the hero theoretically or ev you know,
Speaker 1: one can argue either way, but like he is a
Speaker 1: funked up anarchy murder daddy, you know, and it is
Speaker 1: more interesting that way. I think that's very well said.
Speaker 1: He does have a beautiful shrine to Valerie, and that's nice.
Speaker 1: Oh right, And then we also find out that Valerie
Speaker 1: did right, that Valerie is real, but she wrote it
Speaker 1: and sent it to V. She was the woman in
Speaker 1: room f Yeah, that is a very important detail because
Speaker 1: I feel like that was one of the biggest almost immediately.
Speaker 1: The things that ev is like, you cut my hair,
Speaker 1: you tortured me. And the next thing that she thinks
Speaker 1: is like and then you you know, lied to like
Speaker 1: that story wasn't real, Like I feel like she felt
Speaker 1: as we maybe felt like I definitely felt reading it
Speaker 1: like Valerie does feel so real that it would feel
Speaker 1: like such a betrayal if someone was like, he couldn't
Speaker 1: write that well in a woman's voice, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, Valerie was real and as Karama psychically predicted,
Speaker 1: was at Larkil you know, I mean I didn't I
Speaker 1: used the clothes in the psychic Nope, you just knew.
Speaker 1: Please don't make me a magical black woman because I
Speaker 1: can read better than you said. I didn't read that
Speaker 1: that section of the book. Ye I told you it's
Speaker 1: the best part. Ten you stopped at Valerie's I started.
Speaker 1: I was well, I was trying to finish right before this,
Speaker 1: and I didn't. I was like, the gayest part because
Speaker 1: it's a bad I think it's my favorite, ka retelling
Speaker 1: it truly. I think I'm also vulnerable and tired and
Speaker 1: vulnerable as and I didn't sleep well, so like I'm
Speaker 1: like almost I was like Oh, that's gonna make me cry.
Speaker 1: You're welcome. No, it won't make you cry. It makes
Speaker 1: me cry every time, like in the movie, it makes
Speaker 1: me cry. And reading this, even though I knew exactly
Speaker 1: what was going to happen, I was like, flowers flats
Speaker 1: of Salt. I wonder if the name of that film
Speaker 1: Salt Flats and Herbie in Valerie being a lesbian is
Speaker 1: at all inspired by the price of Salt, the like
Speaker 1: book that Carol, Yeah, that inspired Carol, just because I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of salt going. That's a lot of
Speaker 1: lesbian salt connection. Interesting British. So Alan Moore would have
Speaker 1: you know, like that, let's take a quick break. I
Speaker 1: have to run the spotlight on an anarchist pulling a stunt.
Speaker 1: His lighting is always great, it's always fabulous speaking of
Speaker 1: people who are gay. So do we think he is gay?
Speaker 1: I feel like he's not a person. He's just a mask.
Speaker 1: He has no sexual or just one way or the other. Well,
Speaker 1: but here's the thing. He's at lark Hill. Why why
Speaker 1: is he at lark Hill? That's the And that's something
Speaker 1: I'd never thought about before, even though I've had experience
Speaker 1: with this story I realized that lark Hill was a
Speaker 1: camp for quote unquote undesirable people that they rounded up.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he's not a person of color. The
Speaker 1: movie makes this different. He could be a political dissident,
Speaker 1: that's true. He could have been a socialist and anarchy.
Speaker 1: He could have very It seems like he's he was
Speaker 1: probably in. Evie's dad was a socially there. But they
Speaker 1: just killed Evie's dad. We don't know that that's there.
Speaker 1: They could have killed him at larka was a concentration
Speaker 1: camp and they did medical testing on some of the
Speaker 1: people there. I think he's gay, Karama. I like he's
Speaker 1: got like some queer energy for sure. Here's the well.
Speaker 1: First of all, clearly a theater major, not doing it
Speaker 1: many favors on the straight side of things. Um. But
Speaker 1: the other thing, no, but actual textual analysis, not just
Speaker 1: me making stereotypes about gay people doing theater. Um. He
Speaker 1: there's this whole thing in book one where Evie's kind
Speaker 1: of like, why aren't you trying to fuck me? And
Speaker 1: he and then that's when he kicks around. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what I thought. We'll get to the movie in two weeks.
Speaker 1: But I do think the movie very clearly makes a
Speaker 1: gay supplot explicit with a different character and sort of
Speaker 1: a different character, and changes what lark Hill is in
Speaker 1: a clear and explicit way that is eerily relevant to
Speaker 1: today right now. But and also the movie does take
Speaker 1: place in the year good, very good. That's why I
Speaker 1: suggested this book just to close it out. I feel
Speaker 1: so at the end, after she has this like breakdown,
Speaker 1: you know, in spite of how it was done, she
Speaker 1: does have this awakening right and she is grateful to
Speaker 1: be um it does. It made me think of when
Speaker 1: I was rereading it this week, my friend was talking
Speaker 1: to me about her cats and how they're like we're
Speaker 1: talking about like indoor cats versus outdoor cats, and how
Speaker 1: like when an indoor cat becomes an outdoor cat, like
Speaker 1: it blows their mind. And she said it in this
Speaker 1: perfect way. She's like, it would be like because we
Speaker 1: were sitting outside, distanced, hanging out, and she was like,
Speaker 1: it would be like if someone came over to us
Speaker 1: right now and said, do you want to go outside?
Speaker 1: And then we went outside, like outside of the outside,
Speaker 1: there's another there's a there's a whole outside that we
Speaker 1: didn't know about. That blew my mind. And that's happening,
Speaker 1: Like she went outside, like that's what happened. Also, isn't
Speaker 1: that kind of the plot of flat Land a little
Speaker 1: bit where it's like there's another dimension that you don't
Speaker 1: even know about this flat Land. It's kind of matrix.
Speaker 1: It's like a math thing. Flat Land is literally a
Speaker 1: math thing. Yeah, the pills, and I think that what
Speaker 1: wak Wakowski, which the sisters. I think the Wachowski sisters
Speaker 1: are very interested in that theme of like the reality
Speaker 1: outside the reality. I think it's the reason they were drawn.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's maybe many reasons to be drawn to
Speaker 1: this book, but you know, it does sort of share
Speaker 1: a similar theme between the Matrix of like we are
Speaker 1: cogs in this system and there's a way to see
Speaker 1: beyond this system and fight back, fight back. Um before uh,
Speaker 1: I just want to do a quick also plot note,
Speaker 1: what else is happening at the end of book two
Speaker 1: other than Evie is we find out that Creedy is
Speaker 1: planning to pay off Ali Harper, who's the Scottish uh
Speaker 1: gangsterish accent um Rose Almond, the rose Rosemary Almond is
Speaker 1: now a burlesque dancer for money. And also it's she's sad.
Speaker 1: It's a bad, bad scene for her. And also um,
Speaker 1: the head of this Norse Fire system, the head of
Speaker 1: the Norse Fire Party, the head of state UM is
Speaker 1: this guy named Adam Susan, And he's the one who
Speaker 1: man's what they call Fate, which is like their supercomputer
Speaker 1: that like tells them like the weather and stuff. And
Speaker 1: he is having a weird affair with it. He is
Speaker 1: in love with the computer and he's going you. So
Speaker 1: he is having a weird uh moment. He's having her moment.
Speaker 1: And I think that all of the other men of
Speaker 1: like the party system, you know, like at this point,
Speaker 1: like Creedy, who's now getting like gangsters on the side,
Speaker 1: are feeling very like Game of Thrones little Finger moment
Speaker 1: of like chaos is a ladder where they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: he's going crazy. There's gonna be chaos, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be the one who shuffles on top. And so that's
Speaker 1: what I feel like, that's what's happening, not to be
Speaker 1: like that's what's happening to the US government right now,
Speaker 1: but like that feels like it like chaos is happening,
Speaker 1: and there are some GOP senators that I want to
Speaker 1: climb up the ladder because of the chaos. Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you think we have a supercomputer that loves people? Secret
Speaker 1: in the government is not mad at that idea? It
Speaker 1: would if there's like a tiny horror going on at
Speaker 1: the Pentagon. It both makes I feel I feel scared
Speaker 1: by that. If that was happening, I would be worried
Speaker 1: by that. It's I have like a dumb thing to
Speaker 1: confess that has nothing to do with the book, but
Speaker 1: does relate to something you just mentioned. Um No, it's
Speaker 1: not bad, it's just stupid. I like, forget the Pentagon
Speaker 1: doesn't exist unless that the Pentagon exists unless I'm talking
Speaker 1: about it, Like, I just forget that. I never think
Speaker 1: about the Pentagon. They probably are that. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it would be weird if we were constantly thinking about
Speaker 1: the Pentagon, you know, hones, not constantly like let's spotlight
Speaker 1: them they are yesterday. Well, you think I've spent more
Speaker 1: time thinking about a building that's named after the shape
Speaker 1: it is. I just think that's so weird, Like that's
Speaker 1: it's pretty. It's kid, they built it, Like, Wow, we
Speaker 1: made a perfect Pentagon. What are we going to call it?
Speaker 1: What else can we call it? That's the name of
Speaker 1: the movie. Like what if every building was just called
Speaker 1: like square, right, It's not. It's also kind of insane,
Speaker 1: how press prescient? Prescient? I feel like I always suck
Speaker 1: that up Press. Alan Moore Ellen Moore writing about the supercomputer,
Speaker 1: probably in his wizard Hut, was so excited, not the
Speaker 1: opposite of excited, but like when when iPhones came out,
Speaker 1: he was like, I knew it. I fucking knew it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like serious, she loves you though he got tickets for
Speaker 1: the opening of her just really do you think he
Speaker 1: and Charlie Brooker are like buds British and hate technology, yeah,
Speaker 1: and hate the government. I feel like they're buds. Have
Speaker 1: you Brooker, if you listen to this, please love us.
Speaker 1: Have you guys all seen a picture of Alan Moore?
Speaker 1: I know that you don't like to. I know that
Speaker 1: you don't like to and we've said this he is.
Speaker 1: He is a wizard. But look look it out, look
Speaker 1: up Alan Moore right now, mine he's a forest wizard
Speaker 1: wizard that's also really into like a C d C
Speaker 1: and like like a lot of like seventies rock, you know,
Speaker 1: and he's like like the sex pistols. I feel like
Speaker 1: he likes the sex pistoles he likes. He looks like
Speaker 1: Haggard's like creative. Okay, wait, also he's like my absolute
Speaker 1: favorite picture of Alan Moore if Haggard was a heavy drinker. Yeah, okay, wait,
Speaker 1: we got I have to see this picture. Okay, we're
Speaker 1: looking at a picture of Elmore that Jennifer just sends
Speaker 1: to the group chat Lighter Wizard. Mall Santa respute in
Speaker 1: person from a tumbler called feet Lips. It kind of
Speaker 1: looks like his hair, Mall Santa. His hair was flattered.
Speaker 1: It depends on the mall, Melissa. I think not everybody
Speaker 1: has representation of a lot of the And when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, I lived outside of Philly and these
Speaker 1: were what the Santa's looks. Oh no, oh god, tamn, Melissa,
Speaker 1: I think you're too used to that sleek l a
Speaker 1: mall Santa. Look. They all play Santa's in various Hallmark movies.
Speaker 1: Santas in l A are in fth leisure. They're just
Speaker 1: like red My Santa was Jeff Bridges, Was that not
Speaker 1: your Mam Santa? They're all sad as tag After all,
Speaker 1: the moll Santas in l A go to Equina. Uh so, yeah,
Speaker 1: Ellen Moore hates hates fascism, hates racism, and enhanced his
Speaker 1: adaptation of movies Yeah, and Loves Loves Beards. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say there are very few things on the love list.
Speaker 1: But in terms of book two, um, I think it's
Speaker 1: really interesting that it's called Vicious Cabaret the the entire book,
Speaker 1: which also starts with the the because of again the
Speaker 1: constant theme of theatricality and how Rosemary does begin working
Speaker 1: at this cabaret and it starts off in this cabaret,
Speaker 1: and it's sort of weird to see because we think
Speaker 1: of it as so Like they talked about food rationing
Speaker 1: and stuff, which was something that I thought was cool
Speaker 1: in the Jordan Tower scene where they're like have the
Speaker 1: propaganda TV shows where it's like, you're gonna get caught
Speaker 1: food rationing. This is what it's say when your neighbors
Speaker 1: are like hoarding food, and this sort of like narc
Speaker 1: mentality where it's like tell on your neighbors and it's
Speaker 1: sort of it's become something, it's become normalized to the
Speaker 1: point where it's like a sitcom joke, which I thought
Speaker 1: was very smart. Yeah, it's also one of the reasons
Speaker 1: that they keep be alive, that be so good at
Speaker 1: gardening and growing food for them, that that he's really
Speaker 1: useful in the camp, and that's how he starts to
Speaker 1: get the things that he needs for his bomb is
Speaker 1: because they start to trust him. And it's interesting how
Speaker 1: oppressors can sort of forget that they are oppressing sometimes
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, well, we're working together. We're all
Speaker 1: in this together high school musical, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we forgot that this is a concentration camp. He's not
Speaker 1: allowed to leave. He hates us. We've injected him with
Speaker 1: a disease that's made him insane, but we'll let him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll let him have things from his like Amazon wish list,
Speaker 1: because he's good at I also think Cabaret, obviously the
Speaker 1: name and like the juxtaposition of Cabaret with fascism comes
Speaker 1: back to like the play in the sixties and then
Speaker 1: the movie musical in the seventies seventies, definitely like a
Speaker 1: decade before this, which is if you've never seen it,
Speaker 1: about a Cabaret and Vye mar Republic Germany as the
Speaker 1: Nazis gain power, and it's a really dark and funny musical,
Speaker 1: because you know, it's that like idea of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: whatever's going on at here, we're putting on a show
Speaker 1: in there. And I think that that's uh, definitely a
Speaker 1: a proper a creative thing that v would respect and
Speaker 1: and like and enjoy. I imagine, I think not to
Speaker 1: be a theater major, but he's in uh in candern
Speaker 1: Ebbs Cabaret. One of the interesting things is that there
Speaker 1: was a mirror at the back of the stage, and
Speaker 1: as the show goes on, the mirror gets tilted more
Speaker 1: and more so the at the end you can see
Speaker 1: yourselves and the show is supposed to be a mirror,
Speaker 1: and it's like, this isn't something that happened outside of
Speaker 1: our society. This is our society. You are a part
Speaker 1: of this. You are at the cabaret right now. Think
Speaker 1: about it. You're the audience. You're watching things, um And
Speaker 1: I think that it's really interesting that through this we
Speaker 1: are in all of these situations and like we don't
Speaker 1: get any agency, we can't choose what happens, but we
Speaker 1: do become sort of like watchers in the same way
Speaker 1: all the people at home watching the TV are the audience.
Speaker 1: And they're like, oh yeah, we're just And when the
Speaker 1: TV goes out, nobody's like, thank god, all the fascist
Speaker 1: propaganda's gone. They're like, the telly is broken, Mom, come
Speaker 1: fix the telly. That's my very bad British accent. I
Speaker 1: feel very exposed whenever, and I remember this in the
Speaker 1: book too, whenever I see people on TV that look
Speaker 1: sad on the couch watching TV right whatever. It was
Speaker 1: like a depiction of a depressed person is sitting in
Speaker 1: sweats watching TV. And I watched that, I'm like, what
Speaker 1: a fucking loser it is. And that feels like a
Speaker 1: mirror to me, Um, like I came here to have
Speaker 1: a good time, Please don't attack me. It's almost as
Speaker 1: if the screen becomes a black mirror. Something I really
Speaker 1: liked about the depiction of this cabaret in the book
Speaker 1: is that eats an incredibly joyless cabaret. As far as
Speaker 1: I can tell, nobody there is having a good dude. Um.
Speaker 1: We see one scene of enough close. They sing a
Speaker 1: very fascist song. Then one guy's informed that he has
Speaker 1: to kill his mother by basically putting her into the
Speaker 1: gas shaper that he thought that he hadn't understanding with
Speaker 1: the government that that he's like to just keep her
Speaker 1: at home. That guy's in there new guys, and they're
Speaker 1: like now that guy's out, like your mom's dead now. Um,
Speaker 1: And then he obviously becomes hysterical after finding out that
Speaker 1: they're going to murder his mother. So yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: a lot about how in Cabaret, the movie musical, the
Speaker 1: Cabaret ends when the Nazis take power, the cabaret functions
Speaker 1: up until that point because cabaret can be a haven
Speaker 1: for weirdos and outsiders. The cabaret depicted him before Vendetta
Speaker 1: really does not work. The women. They are not happy,
Speaker 1: They are not happy to be performing. They are not
Speaker 1: having fun and singing and dancing and becoming famous. They
Speaker 1: are all there is the last resort. The clients do
Speaker 1: not appear to be happy. Many of them seem to
Speaker 1: be crying. It's just it's this is the worst club
Speaker 1: you have ever been to. And I do think it's
Speaker 1: important to note Uh. Sex work for women can be
Speaker 1: empowering and financially fulfilling if it's voluntary, and this is
Speaker 1: clearly a system in which the women are not doing
Speaker 1: it by choice. Rosemary Uh does not want to be
Speaker 1: dancing at that cabaret, but she feels like she has
Speaker 1: no other options. And at the beginning, you know, Evie,
Speaker 1: as a child prostitute, isn't doing that for for for
Speaker 1: fun or financial freedom. She's doing it because she has to.
Speaker 1: And Rosemary starts off as a patron at the cabaret
Speaker 1: and she gets kicked out because she has no money
Speaker 1: and uh and Evie even notes because she sees her,
Speaker 1: She's like, nobody's sitting with that lady because to the
Speaker 1: last men that she dated. Yeah, this cabaret is so
Speaker 1: bad that even in this time of the pandemic, Like
Speaker 1: any time I see bars restaurants out like on TV
Speaker 1: show the I'm like, I want to be there so bad.
Speaker 1: This cabaret is so bad that I'm like, I'm happy
Speaker 1: to be home. Yeah, I have the exact same thought.
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It's the most bummer cabin, Like even
Speaker 1: in COVID times, like I wouldn't I wouldn't rewind to
Speaker 1: go to this cabrett still go like if it's like,
Speaker 1: I'd still go murdered, screams why do we have to
Speaker 1: live this way? And then other people killing the women
Speaker 1: are miserable. I'm staved I'm so bored in my house, screams,
Speaker 1: I wish we were dead. That's what I wish we
Speaker 1: were all dead. It would be I guess it sounds
Speaker 1: like a fun party to me. Where people are in
Speaker 1: the quarantine is whether this is a fun caburette today,
Speaker 1: this particular day, I would go. If you ask me,
Speaker 1: like in three days, maybe not, depends on whether or
Speaker 1: not I'm watching enough Netflix. But right now I'm like,
Speaker 1: this sounds fun? Sure? Why not than cables? Now? Even
Speaker 1: if been watching The Queen's Gambit, which is a period thing,
Speaker 1: and I saw people walk around a hotel like what
Speaker 1: they do we mask? I had my first mask trees,
Speaker 1: just a normal dream where everything was the same mask.
Speaker 1: I haven't had any of those. I had the I've
Speaker 1: had the opposite dream where I've realized I'm not wearing
Speaker 1: a mask and that I'm around a bunch of other
Speaker 1: people who aren't like, oh no, we're gonna it's a
Speaker 1: super spreader event. Anyway, what a bad tone to end on.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it, Well, I want to talk about
Speaker 1: what I want to end on a possibly worst tone,
Speaker 1: but I thought it was interesting how there was the
Speaker 1: idea that they just throw they They're like, oh, take
Speaker 1: your mom to the old folks home. He's like, that's
Speaker 1: not an old folks so it's a gas chamber and
Speaker 1: they're like no, no, no, no no, they beat them
Speaker 1: to death. It's still a home. It's still a structure
Speaker 1: where old people go into. We're talking semantics well, and
Speaker 1: recently Joe by Aiden has started to announce sort of
Speaker 1: who's going to be in his cabinet and stuff. And
Speaker 1: there's this guy who is ram Emmanual's like brother or
Speaker 1: something that Joe Biden has said might be on one
Speaker 1: of his task forces. There is a doctor, the other
Speaker 1: the third Emmanuel as a doctor. Yeah, it's not that one,
Speaker 1: but it's a different one. Uh. And he said that
Speaker 1: people should die at seventy five. He's like, you're you're
Speaker 1: not useful paste. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's that's cool.
Speaker 1: That's a cool thing to say. When you're the person
Speaker 1: president alone hired you like older than seventy hire him
Speaker 1: just to be like a looking counter art would be. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I think it's really I think it's really interesting
Speaker 1: the idea that people hold that old people have no
Speaker 1: use in society and how we get to see this
Speaker 1: in action in view for Vendetta, where they're like, you
Speaker 1: gotta go. And I realized when I was reading that
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen a single old person on the page.
Speaker 1: I guess even in the back. The oldest guy we
Speaker 1: saw was the sort of wrinkled pedophile priest who had
Speaker 1: like a but whose wrinkles were like meant to be grotesque,
Speaker 1: like they were drawn specifically as like grotesque ory looks.
Speaker 1: And I don't think he was. It might be different
Speaker 1: for men positions of power, women who see his like
Speaker 1: weird grotesque face. Yeah, it's not a great face, but
Speaker 1: it's likely because they're like, he's a pedophile priest. That's
Speaker 1: that's dry, creepy. It worked. I was gonna agree with
Speaker 1: something you said. It's different for men in power, um,
Speaker 1: And I don't think it's just that he's a man,
Speaker 1: But I think it's the power part because when we
Speaker 1: think of religion and religions stitutions, we think of like, uh,
Speaker 1: prestigiousness and tradition in an institution, and old white men
Speaker 1: sort of embody that in our society. So to have
Speaker 1: like a hip young like youth passed their voice like uh,
Speaker 1: well you know, w a p stands for worship and praise,
Speaker 1: Like that's a whole other thing that doesn't work with fascism.
Speaker 1: And I think, like a lot of things, yeah, it
Speaker 1: doesn't work. But also in a fascist system, and I
Speaker 1: think Margaret that would gets this well, like women's use
Speaker 1: is reproduction, and when that stops working for women in
Speaker 1: a fascist system, they're like, well, what's the point of
Speaker 1: a woman now, I don't know, I don't agree with that.
Speaker 1: To get to suffer the same fate as all starlets
Speaker 1: get to go through at the age of thirty five.
Speaker 1: For suddenly they have a cooking line and they put
Speaker 1: out a book about how like their real passion, how
Speaker 1: is feeding their family? And uh, but they're still very beautiful,
Speaker 1: they're very But it's also how actors at thirty five,
Speaker 1: actresses at thirty five, at like thirty one, two thirty three,
Speaker 1: they're still playing like the ingenu that's like, you know,
Speaker 1: the lead. And then they turned thirty five and then
Speaker 1: they're the mother of a yeah, of a sixteen year old,
Speaker 1: Like there's no all of a sudden, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: that's what happened. All of the moms get pregnant at nineteen. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: every actress has to wait forever to have babies because
Speaker 1: they can't afford them. I need to save their body,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. Amy Poehler is like six years older
Speaker 1: than Rachel McAdams and plays her mom and mean girls. Well,
Speaker 1: on that fun note, let's leave it at that. Wait.
Speaker 1: One thing that I do think was very, very nice.
Speaker 1: The last page ages of this chapter are V and
Speaker 1: ev dancing, and they're dancing under a disco ball, and
Speaker 1: it seems really beautiful and like a really nice moment
Speaker 1: for both of them, and they're both really happy, and
Speaker 1: there are very few moments of real happiness in this
Speaker 1: and I think it's such a nice contrast to the
Speaker 1: horror that is the categat that this is how how
Speaker 1: dancing and and uh dancing with someone should go. There
Speaker 1: as private, textual more textual evidence the V is gay,
Speaker 1: just throwing it out there. Also, I will say, as
Speaker 1: Sienia might feel a way too. As someone who has
Speaker 1: not seen the movie and this is the first time
Speaker 1: reading it, I'm really excited to see what happens with
Speaker 1: Evie in the next because when you read this book
Speaker 1: one and two, which is what we've done so far,
Speaker 1: it's like she's this innocent sixteen year old and that
Speaker 1: gets kicked out at the end of book one. That
Speaker 1: has gone through a lot of ship but she's still
Speaker 1: very naive and doesn't want to murder anyone. And then
Speaker 1: this transformation in book two is so powerful. And that's
Speaker 1: what I've seen, and you know, all the Natalie Portman
Speaker 1: shaving her head stuff, but I'm really looking forward to
Speaker 1: scene she now is a Hollywood that's that's yes, she's
Speaker 1: going to have a sixteen year old son in the
Speaker 1: next book. That's like, have you done your homework? And yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think that is a really this vicious cabaret.
Speaker 1: We get this misery cabaret, and then we end with
Speaker 1: their their private disco. That's a great now, Jennifer, thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: start with a song and with a dance. That's our
Speaker 1: show for the week. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: I'm Danish Schwartz and you can find me on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Danis Swartz with three z s. You can follow
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wright at jen Ashley Right, Karama, Donqua is at
Speaker 1: Karama Drama, Melissa Hunter is at Melissa ft W and
Speaker 1: Tian Tran is smart enough to have gotten off Twitter
Speaker 1: but she is on insta at Hank Tina. Our executive
Speaker 1: producer is Christopher Hesiodes were produced and edited by Mike
Speaker 1: John's Special thanks to David Wasserman. Next week we'll finish
Speaker 1: up book three of Viva Vendetta before moving on to
Speaker 1: the two thousand five films starring Natalie Portman. Popcorn Book
Speaker 1: Club is a production of I Heart Radio.