WEBVTT - Ep. 101: Alaska Sheep Adventure 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:14.840 Welcome back to another episode of Hunting the Distance. Today, 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.920 I'm recording live from Alaska. Just finished up a dull 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:19.919 sheep hunt that I've had in the works for about 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.880 four years, and it's a dream hunt. It's everything I 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.400 imagined when you dream of, you know, being able to 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.800 sheep hunt, the amazing country that Alaska has to offer. 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:32.960 It was it was everything you know I wanted it 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.000 to be. I'm here with my guide outfitter Matt Snyder 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.480 with the Alaska Hunting Adventures. Welcome to the show, Matt, Yep, 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.159 Thank you. It's it's kind of funny. You should have 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:44.720 saved a look on if you could only saw a 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:46.560 look on his face when I said, Hey, if we 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:48.320 have time here, do you want to be on a podcast? 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:49.960 And you kind of looked at me with this this 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.760 goofy look. One thing I've got to learn about Matt 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:54.720 is he he grew up kind of like me, you know, 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.760 very kind of secretive, kind of quiet, you know, just goes, 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.959 you know, a very humble guy for all of his successes. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.640 And so I'm really stoked to have Matt on the 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:07.880 podcast because he is one of those guys that eats, sleeps, lives, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.440 Alaska hunting. He's we're going to dive into his story 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:13.000 here in a little bit, but I'm excited to have 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.680 him on. These are some of my favorite guests. So Matt, 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.080 give us a little background of how you ended up here. 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.760 You're near tok, Alaska, and how long have you been here? 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:22.200 Kind of how did it all happen? 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.679 Well, I guess it all happened because my mom was 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.080 into the outdoors. She grew up in Pennsylvania on a 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:32.319 dairy farm, and anyways, I guess I may have been 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.880 an accident, but she had me pretty young, and her 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:40.399 and my real father only because of her decided to 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.200 make a run to or drive up to Alaska and 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:48.160 seventy three, and long story short, they weren't getting long 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:53.280 they divorced. She liked Alaska much obviously, we stayed been 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:58.920 here ever since. She met my stepfather, Frank and Sminger, 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:03.560 and they've been together since seventy five. They were, you know, 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:08.560 originally in the Fairbanks North Pole area, and then he 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:11.240 always liked this area down here south of tok on 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.680 the Toe cutoffs, and we moved here in nineteen seventy 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:18.800 seven have been here ever since. And he was a taxidermist, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:24.200 but loved hunting also. He was from Montana. Originally came 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.200 up the day after graduat his graduation in nineteen sixty two. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.040 Been here ever since. But anyways, we've been here in 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:35.440 the tok area since seventy seven hunting, and I went 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.440 on to you know, went through high school here in 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:42.600 tok then went got an airframe and power plant mechanic license, 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.040 but kind of wanted to stay in this area, and 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.960 guiding was one way to maybe do that. Since I'm 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.680 so far from town, it's a long commute. If I 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.000 was doing some forty hour week job, I just didn't 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.880 really compute. But I also I commercial fished in the 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:09.200 summers from about eighty four up into the you know, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:13.639 early two thousands anyways or whatever, salmon and herring depending 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:18.560 various time different anyways, but anyways, I commercial fished. Got 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.600 into guiding shortly after amp school, worked for other guides 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.240 over the years, got my registered license, started the business, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:32.400 and yeah, currently just doing a handful of clients or 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:37.520 less every year, keeping it small and simple and working 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:42.040 out a home. And it's been working out pretty well. 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.320 And like we talked, you know, one thing I like 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.280 about Matt is he's he's recognized that, you know, maybe 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:48.560 and we're going to get into this a little bit, 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:50.480 sheep puntings went down, and so you know, he's taken 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:52.880 less clients because he wants to keep that success at 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.840 a level where you know, his clients are successful, he's 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:57.720 able to kind of keep that same quality of a hunt, 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.880 even though the sheep numbers, you know, last four or 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.920 ten years have started to really you know, drop off 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.600 for unknown reasons. We'll dive into some of those reasons, 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.200 but yeah, you're you're here to and I've seen it 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.520 on this hunt, like you're here to provide your clients 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.400 a good trip, a successful trip, be in animals, even 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.000 though the state of you know, sheep you know in 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:20.600 particular isn't the greatest right now. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:25.840 Yes, So yeah, when I kind of got my foot 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.640 in the door and started having, you know, from the 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:34.280 opportunity to book a client or two, my folks were 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.880 helping me. So we'd take you know, maybe six sheep hunters, 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.560 you know, between the three of us. But now I'm 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:46.000 down to two in the non permitted area, and sometimes 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.760 I think I'm overdoing it, just there's more hunters out 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.320 in the woods residents, and you know, I'm trying to 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.640 go where I don't think I'm going to run into anybody, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.240 but a lot of the places I used to hunt, 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:00.919 there's people there. So I'm moving into different directions and 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.120 sooner or later they'll probably find out. You know, there's 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.400 no guarantee I'll I could run into anybody anytime. But yeah, 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:10.960 I don't want to go on a seven day camping 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.680 trip and trip and not have an opportunity to maybe 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:19.640 show the guy a legal ram. Anyways, Yeah, that's the 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:20.240 short of it. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.520 So you're I've got to you know, before the hunt, 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:25.600 you know a little bit since we've returned back from 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.080 from the field. You know, got to look at a 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.919 lot of your picture albums. You're a humble guy, So 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:31.680 I'm going to try to pry this out of you. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.480 It's obvious by by the successes. You know, the pictures 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.839 on your walls. You've you've did a great job document 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.120 and basically your history. You know, I was flipping through 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.400 last night, you know, your first caribou, your first ram, 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.520 like it's all there, you know, and and so it's 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.680 it's evident to me that you've been very successful. But 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.880 your mom is also you told her she was still 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:54.160 hunting sheep at seventy one. My mom's very accomplished as 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.280 well as as a sheep hunter. So go into a 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.560 little bit about you know, your your successes, your mom successes, 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.600 your guys, clients' success you know, what have you did 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:04.920 in the sheep real you know, in your career? I 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:08.320 guess your last forty seven years year between you your mom, Frank, you. 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:12.840 Know, well we've between the three of us, we've taken 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.120 a lot of sheep. I can't even probably give you 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:19.520 your number. And but we where we live, we qualified 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:25.120 to hunt the wrangle Saint Elias Park, so we kind 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.360 of chose to hunt there and not compete in the 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.640 regular area where you know, the residents from the non 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.039 rural communities would be. You know, we took you know, 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.880 obviously we took advantage of it, and we killed some 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:43.599 nice sheep over the years, and you know, and definitely 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.560 made the time to go do it. It was they 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.800 were and hard hunts. I mean, you can't fly in 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:54.320 or anything like that. But yeah, as guiding went on, 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.240 I kind of had to make a living, so I 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.640 did less and less of those hunts personal hunts and 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.960 more of the guided hunts. But I when sheep populations 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.640 were good, we got a lot of hunted in and 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.520 I'm glad I did, because it ain't It definitely is 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:13.160 not the same. 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:17.840 Man. How many sheep is your mom that you? I 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:19.480 think you had mentioned that. Maybe twenty five? 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:25.080 Yeah, I think she's over in the twenty five range. Yeah, 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.720 so she started hunting with Frank and yeah, seventy five. 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.520 Yeah, yeah, Frank's similar number, maybe even more. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.040 She more And then he started in sixty two or three, 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.520 I guess after he became a resident and he hunted 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.600 the Brooks and I think I don't know if it 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.680 was right that when he got to Alaska, but there 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:47.440 was a time when the Brooks Range had a two 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.560 sheep harvest. I don't know that he ever got in 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.760 on it, but I mean he had a lot of opportunity, 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.200 and he definitely took the time to do it. I 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.520 mean it was like on the top of the list 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.520 to go do every year every fall. 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.760 Yeah. And then yeah, once you guys stopped personally hunting, 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.040 you sprinkled it in there and then you know it's 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.840 your client success becomes your success at that point, you guys, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.000 judging by all the pictures you and your mom are in, 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.200 uh you know, and even Frank with with some clients. 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.760 It looks like you guys continued that success you had 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.160 personally into your local area. Yeah, you know the open 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:19.760 units and. 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.080 No, we've done real well. And then the the TMA, 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.200 the Tooke Management Area is a draw area and we've 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.480 always promoted it and you know, when we get a 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.160 client to draw, lucky be lucky enough to draw from it. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:39.760 We've had pretty good success. Yeah, so yeah, that's anyways, Yeah, 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:44.360 and it was managed for a trophy area or it 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.320 still is trying to but you know, with numbers so low, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.520 it's yeah. When that when that was the inception of 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.480 the draw area, Tom, it was one hundred and twenty 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:59.000 permits and anw we're at ten, so it just yeah, 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:01.560 I mean it flux weighted in between, not from ten 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:03.800 but like sixty to one hundred for quite a few years. 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.760 And then we had some bad winners and you know, 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.480 so on and now we're at ten and that's one 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.000 non resident because it's only. 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:15.559 Yeah, ninety ten there. What else is so aside from 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.920 sheep hunting, you know, taking you know, maybe two hunters 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.240 with your mom kind of stepping back from you know, 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.680 sheep sheep guiding, you're you're kind of the last guide, 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.800 and then you do have some some assistant guides that 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:27.240 are helping you out here. Yep. 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.360 I got one guy working for me. He kind of 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.480 he did some packing in the in the beginning and 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.599 got assistant license. Now he has a regish license and 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.240 he's actually he's still helping me, and he's doing a 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.480 couple of hunts of his own. And you know in 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:45.920 other areas. Yeah, yeah, just booking agent or a contracting guide. 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.880 So keep a small, small operation, you know, keep your 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.600 client success up and try to focus on that as 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:53.080 your fighting goal. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.360 I stress out too much. I couldn't. I don't think 0:09:55.400 --> 0:10:00.559 I could run a big operation with yeah, lots of employees, clients. 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.160 Yeah, it's all good guides are outfitters. I've got the 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.400 you know, you my buddy Brian Sanders, you know Bradley 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.360 Dammering with IDAHA white Tail guides. You guys all share this. 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.160 I don't know what characteristic it is, but you can tell, 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.360 like the the stress isn't necessarily on it, but you 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.400 can tell you guys care enough that like it is 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:18.920 pressing a little bit there's a little bit of weight 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.880 on your shoulders, and I appreciate that. Like I think 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.040 any client that was ever to book with you guys, 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.120 like they know that you guys are doing everything in 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.719 your power to you know, to to make it, make 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.120 it happen for him, which is you know important, you know, 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:33.120 taking care of him and trying to see him, you know, 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:34.079 find success. Yeah. 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.520 No, I'm trying to, Yeah, give them the best opportunity 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:37.920 for sure. 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.679 Yeah. So in addition to sheep, what else do you 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:41.680 guys guide here? 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:48.120 But I do some moose hunts in the fall and 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.880 and then spring bear hunts and they're over bait and 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:58.280 Mom's the contracting guide currently for that. She Yeah, I 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.520 let her. She's dealing with the spring bears as the 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:05.079 contracting guide, doing the bookings, doing the paperwork, letting her 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.040 now that they're not cheap guiding due to age and 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:14.080 conditioning a physical condition whatever, but gives them a little 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.680 revenue and she pays me out of that like I 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.920 used to when I paid her on the on the 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:23.040 sheep side, Yeah. 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.559 Yeah, yeah. They live in absolutely beautiful place. Sounds like 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.840 they've got great success on no matter you know what 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.439 they're hunting. Whether it's moose, you know, spring bear sounds 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:33.960 like you guys have you know, if you're interested in 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.640 black bear, they might not have the biggest black bears, 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.520 but they're loaded up, covered up in them. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.040 We have seems to be have plenty of bears. We 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:45.760 got tons of game cam pictures. But yes, our interior 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:50.080 bears are especially the black bears have no comparison to 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.280 a coastal bear even as far as size. Yeah, they're 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.360 pretty bears. We get face colored bears. We get some 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:02.880 big grizzlies, you know grizzlies, let's say, but you know, 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:04.880 not the norm obviously, we just get some once in 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:10.520 a while. And yeah, and I've done fall bear hunts too, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.840 which is spot in stock. Some guys preferred that, but 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:15.920 between the sheep and the moose, it seems to keep 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.640 my fall fairly busy. You're busy enough. 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:24.400 And uh, for those that are interested, you guys offer 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.120 you know baited you know wheelerd in hunts. You guys 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:28.880 offer you know fly in baits. 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.840 Well it, yeah, there's one flyout bait and it there's 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.080 a lot of factors and it's on a river bar. 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.640 And I mean, if we got deep snow that winter 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.240 and then you know, it's springtime, so it's melt off. 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.880 Sometimes the airstrips underwater and I can't even use the bait. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:46.960 Yeah, so just hit or miss on that. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.280 But the rest of them are, yeah, your your mom's housing, 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.640 you're you're being housed at the house, and then you 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.800 just go out for the day to the bait sites. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.720 So it's a little totally different than the fall hunts 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.319 where you're in a tent yep and camping whole hunt. 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.280 Yeah, so let's let's roll into you know, some of 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.480 the problems or troubles the doll Sheep are currently have 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:12.080 and if we want to jump into that, we we've 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:13.760 been able to. You know, we've been hunting together for 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:15.840 the last three days and I've been asking questions for 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.959 for four days straight. Yeah, just I show up to 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.120 a new place, don't really know, you know, so I'm 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.480 I'm asking Matt a thousand questions, what about this? What 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.160 about that? And so I've covered some of this, but 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.080 I want to kind of jump back into it, you know, 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.480 doll Sheep, and I'll let you lay it out, you know, 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.440 I don't want to miss miss quote. But you know, 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.600 like four years ago, a big drop maybe even ten 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:35.960 years ago. You go back, like we talked about like 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:37.920 harvest numbers being up around the eight hundred. Now you 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.920 think you know, last year's count was under four under 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.559 four hundred for the state wide harvest. Can I hear 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.080 your opinion on what's you know? They might not be 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.240 popular opinions, but let's hear what you think you know. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.320 There's there's sickness, there's predators, there's bad winners, Like what 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:53.640 do you think cause. 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:59.240 Well fishing game? Definitely, winners are the most apparent or 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.120 has the biggest effect. A bad winter, deep snow, maybe 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.040 not enough wind to blow the snow off the ridges 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.840 or whatever. Maybe it's the wrong direction of snow or 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.400 wind that is, and they just can't get the food. 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:18.360 But so yeah, winners or bad weathers, the you know, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:24.000 the bad one. I don't know. I some it's hard 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.360 to everybody has an opinion. I think there's more to it. 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:30.800 There's predation too, lambs. If you've got a real wet 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.960 spring right when they're being born, that's not good. And 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.720 then the Golden eagles or eagles in general, mainly goldens 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:46.520 is it seems like the population is thriving quite well 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.920 and I've personally seen them catch lambs even when they're 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:55.320 not newborns. You know, you know, three weeks old, you know, 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.040 they're already scampering around pretty good. And they still get 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.720 them or if they get the if they get they 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.640 almost it seems like you see them in pairs a 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.080 lot of times. I haven't seen him do it, but 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.560 I think they're trying to one's distracting the U and 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:13.160 the other one's getting the lamb. And anyways, I don't 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.320 think we'll get predator control on eagles. 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.560 Yeah, that's gonna be a tough cell to be able 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:18.240 to deal with. 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:20.480 But I think they need to be managed. 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:21.000 Yep. 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.920 Yeah. And obviously the wolves get some I've seen. I 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.800 don't know, just a personal opinion. I think one of 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.440 these real deep snow years, the snow never did set 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.640 up till way late in the winter. So and I 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:40.760 trap wolves, and I never really saw much for wolf 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.440 sign down low. It was like where are they? And 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.280 then I was flying through the mountains one day and 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.480 caught a wolf trail way up on the ridges and 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.520 it's like, huh, they must be up here where it's 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.880 getting some wind and it's hard packed and they're traveling. 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.080 They can travel and not just go down and just 0:15:56.280 --> 0:16:00.720 be stuck. So my thought is they're probably picking on 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:02.800 a few sheep when they're up there, and then when 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.040 the snow set up, I started seeing signed down low 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.360 and then they're chasing moose. 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.200 Moose and caribou down low or what do they can't 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.040 get down there? Yeah? Because I mean, aside from you know, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:18.040 grizzlies probably aren't a big predator form, right, it's wolves, 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.960 your eagles. And then you guys have been doing you 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.520 work with fishing game and I don't correct me if 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.840 I'm wrong, Like you guys, your guys. The system's confusing 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.600 because there's like the state fishing game and then there's 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.960 the federal and like you work with them quite a bit, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.680 and so you've looked at like testing and you know, 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.720 are they are they showing up with like pneumonia? And 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:39.640 is factor? I did? 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.880 I found a dead sheep one summer flying I called 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.160 the local fishing game and the air taxi has a 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:50.240 chopper there. They went out and retrieved it and it 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.200 tested positive. That I mean, there were some other things 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.800 that tested positive for I think, but whatever the main 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.240 one was was one that we've been I don't know 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.560 the scientific name, but we call it movie. But it's 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:05.320 some type of you know sickness that's pneumonia type. 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:06.040 Yeah. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.920 Yeah, And we don't know if that's what killed the 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.280 ram or not. But obviously it wasn't a when I 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.520 saw it, it was a whole just laying there with its 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.359 head down. He could tell that it was dead, so 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.120 it wasn't the birds hadn't gone on it or nothing yet. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.720 Yeah. Yeah. The older gentleman we talked to when we 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.359 got went and got my sheet plugged, I'm down there, 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.439 was telling us a story about the mom, you know, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.160 being dead from movie and then the lamb was sitting 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:33.480 there with it. They had to dispatch it and test 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.399 it in both and they both you know, had it, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.600 and so it's like it is happening, but you wondered 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.600 to what extent? And then the I think I've always 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:41.240 wondered is where did this come from? Like if they 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.160 always had it, we just didn't have the ability to test, 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:44.600 or is it's something that's like been brought in from 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:45.680 domestic livestock. 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:51.000 Yeah, and I think you might get both answers that, yeah, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.400 there's always been a trace of it, and I don't know. 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.719 Maybe with their with the obviously, maybe it has more 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.560 in effect when there's a bad winter because they're run 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.600 down already, they get it. Maybe they could bust through it, 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:04.840 you know, their immune system if it if they're in 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.840 really good health, but if they're already in poor shape, 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.520 it has more of effect. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.560 they're not able to tested positive for it. 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.600 Yeah, So what you're saying is if if it truly 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.640 you know, the main the main reason, which I think 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.119 most can agree on, are these bad winners. What it 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.560 does from a Hunters standpoint is it puts these holes 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.720 probably in your age classes. Right if those those lambs 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.400 that were going to be you know, eventually rams, at 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.359 some point you're now missing let's say you're ones and twos, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.800 you're missing your fours and fives, you're and so as 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.840 a as a guide, you're you're you know, potentially lining up. 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:41.560 You know, if you have one or two bad years, 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.040 it's like, well, shoot, you know, these older rams may die, 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:45.520 you know, you may not have big ones. Then we 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.760 might have any eights and nine coming. 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:52.160 In twenty twelve was a bad year, bad winner, bad 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.960 lamb crop. And that's seven and eight years after one 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.520 of those winners, you notice it because there's no there 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.360 was no lamp I'm daring to speak of. And then yeah, 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.800 you when you're looking for your eight year old class 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:05.800 rams or just. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.960 Just not there, not there, and you really need you 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.600 know what realistically, you know, maybe a young a good 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.160 genetic seven eights and nine's, you know, maybe a ten 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.040 that sneaks in there. Is that going to be typically 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.000 your the age class you're looking forward to. 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.719 I like to be eight and above. For sure. It 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:26.040 hasn't always happened, but yeah, not well, Unfortunately the way 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.200 things are now, when you do find illegal RAM, it's 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.600 pretty hard to pass it up because he might be 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:33.600 going to the client might be going home empty handed. 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.800 Yeah, so you're while you're you know, deep down you 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.960 want to find him a good, respectable RAM, there's also 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.439 this side of like the success and if this client's 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.120 going to be happy with it, you know, as it's 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.080 a guide client, that's probably a tough position to be in. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:47.640 You know, you want to find him something big. 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:52.879 But at the same time, yeah, and there's people are 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.160 out hunting, so there's enough competition out there that yeah, 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.200 it might not survive Anyways, if I'd see a nice 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:00.920 six year old and say, well, that's got to live 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.199 because he'll be way better next year, I'm not an 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.560 he's full curl. He might not make it just during 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.000 unseasoned I'm not. I mean I get it. You know, 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.400 one a new sheep hunter, when he sees the legal ram, 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:19.000 he wants to take it. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, I'm I'm 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.000 very fortunate that I got to hunt sheep, and you 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.840 know when they were populations are really good in my 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:31.960 younger years. For myself, Yeah, it was. Yeah, I'm good 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:36.760 thing I did it. Yeah, or I don't think even 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:40.439 a hardcore sheep are now, I mean, couldn't have to 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:44.320 kill twenty rams and the course at thirty five forty 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.639 years it could be pretty pretty tough. 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.040 Yeah. Yeah. And you don't have to talk about this 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.080