1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Elisa Donovan here back with a new episode 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: of Killer Thriller, where we examine the crossroads between the 5 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: true crime dramas that we find ourselves addicted to and 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: the real stories behind them. So today I'd like to 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: report I am in beautiful Maui with my family on 8 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: a little getaway, quick trip vacation. But my priority is 9 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: to deliver this episode to you all. So I look 10 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: a little crazy, but I think we're going to have 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: an incredible, incredible episode today because we are going to 12 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: dive into a true crime story that wow, it just 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: stays with you long long after the credit role. And 14 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: this is one of the most chilling serial killer cases 15 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: in US history. And this story is told not just 16 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: through the search for the killer, but through the lives 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: caught in the middle of it all. And our guest 18 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: today I am ecstatic to announce is Sharon Lawrence, actress, singer, dancer, 19 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: best known for her iconic and Emmy nominated role as 20 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: Adya Sylvia Costas Sipowitz on NYPD Blue. You may also 21 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: know her from roles in Desperate Housewives One Tree Hill 22 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: for voicing Scarlet Reynolds an American dad, but today she's 23 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: here to talk about her role in the capture of 24 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: the Green River Killer. This is a two thousand and 25 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: eight mini series that follows the nearly twenty year hunt 26 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: for Gary Ridgeway, the man responsible for the murders of 27 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: dozens of women in Washington State, and the detectives who 28 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: just refused to walk away from the case. Sharon played 29 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: the mother of a fictionalized character that was created to 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: honor the real victims, and today she's talking with us 31 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: about stepping into a true crime story with real weight 32 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 1: behind it. We're going to get into what she knew 33 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: about the case before, what it was like telling this 34 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: story while the killer is still alive, and how working 35 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: on something this dark can stay with you long after 36 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: the camera stop rolling. So please welcome Sharon Lawrence. 37 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 2: Hi, Alisa, So nice to be with you. 38 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: So nice to see you. Thank you so much for 39 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: spending your time with us today. This is one of 40 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: the most disturbing cases, probably that I have ever heard of, 41 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: and I'm just really excited to dive into this with you. 42 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: So let's just start with how much did you actually 43 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: know about the case before you signed on. 44 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: I didn't really know much. And I was interested in 45 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: playing this because I knew the lead actress, Amy Davidson. 46 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: We were friends, oh colleagues. We had done something years, 47 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: probably just a year prior or so, and I was 48 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: very impressed by her desire to evolve her artistry. Yep, 49 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: and Amy, if those of you who aren't familiar with her, 50 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: was one of the daughters on Three Simple Rules, Yes, Quoco, 51 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: who was also a friend of mine. I played her 52 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: mother in sitcom and that show, Three Simple Rules was 53 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: a sitcom and Amy had great theatrical chops and a 54 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: play that we did together, So I knew her taking 55 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: on this challenge of playing a character that really gives 56 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: us an insight into the psychology of not just a 57 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: victim in this tragic serial killer truth, but also young 58 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: girls that choose a path of prostitution, of being on 59 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: the streets the way that we don't understand, and her 60 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: her capacity for honesty and vulnerability and somebody that you 61 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 2: just trust inherently was a great choice for cast casting. 62 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: So I thought, Wow, how great to be part of 63 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 2: this to watch her. I also loved that the director 64 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: of this was a woman. Norma Bailey, one of the 65 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 2: most established directors in the Canadian film world. Uh. Norma 66 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: was one of the first directors that had come through 67 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: the the ranks in Canada's burgeoning film industry. And my 68 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: history as being part of Women in Films Leadership, the 69 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: US networking and advocacy group for Females in our Business 70 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 2: had drawn me to say yes to working with women 71 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: at any level, every level. So that's another Those two 72 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: reasons were what compelled me more so than the story. 73 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: Frankly, right, I love this so much because, first of all, 74 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: I was going to say, you and Amy actually look 75 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: as though you could be mother and daughter. And I 76 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: really understand that desire for her to break out of 77 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: what you've been known for. And that's something that as 78 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: actors in general, but certainly as younger actors, we these 79 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: sorts of films, the TV movies at the time especially, 80 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: really allowed you to explore a whole different area where 81 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: you might not be able to do that in sort 82 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: of your certainly, and you're in a TV series sort 83 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: of life or in another kind of film. So I 84 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: love that, and I also you know you and I 85 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: both know it is still a very small pool of 86 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: women that are directing television and film. And I remember 87 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: very distinctly the female directors that I worked with in television, 88 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: never in Canada, but American TV, and it's you know, 89 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: they're few and far between, and it's I love that 90 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: those are the reasons. That is not what I would 91 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: have expected. So do you think that having Norma as 92 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: obviously being a woman directing this, what sort of impact 93 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: do you think that had on the actual storytelling? 94 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: So many ways? And let's also consider and I'm sorry 95 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 2: that I don't know who is responsible for this, but 96 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: I bet that we can find this out who it 97 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: was that chose to green light this story in the 98 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: way that it was told. And this is a good 99 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: time to examine the fact that it's a two part 100 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: mini series. That's important because not only was Gary Ridge 101 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: at Rain decades long? Right, was it close to thirty 102 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 2: years that he was Yeah? 103 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: Over twenty over twenty yeah before they Yeah, that. 104 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: Deserves more than ninety minutes streetelling if you take out commercials, 105 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: two nights of this, and that's important whoever said yes 106 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 2: at the studio and network level, because it's a big 107 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: commitment for a network. 108 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: Yes, instead of trying to truncate it or get it 109 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: done as quickly as possible, and you lose so much nuance. 110 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: That's something that I really appreciated about this that well, 111 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: first of all, let's make sure everybody knows that you're 112 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: your character is fictional and created, as is Amy's, but 113 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: you're really there to represent the lives and the souls 114 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: and the spirits of all of the victims. So that's 115 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: one of pretty big you know, wait to carry there, 116 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: And how did you feel about did you personally feel 117 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: that as Okay, I really need to do justice to 118 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: this for these people, of. 119 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 2: Course, of course, and the script compelled me so much 120 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,239 Speaker 2: because it was written with the homage to that wonderful 121 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: and heartbreaking novel The Lovely Bones. Yes, yes, yes, And 122 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: so if you aren't familiar with that, the storytelling of 123 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: the woman who the young woman who lost her life, 124 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: I want to call her more than just a victim, 125 00:08:55,160 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: because that's what that novel reveals, as does John peel Meyer, 126 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: the screenwriter's take on The Green River Killer. It's told 127 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: through the eyes of the women, one in particular that 128 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: Amy's Davidson's character is focused on. We learn about her, 129 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: we don't just see the result of this time. We 130 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: learn about all of the choices and the steps along 131 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 2: the way that put her on this path with this monster, 132 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: and the sensitivity within this story, paired with the horror 133 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 2: of the truth, I found so rewarding and moving when 134 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: I went back to watch it based on your invitation 135 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: to be be a guest, because we understand through the 136 00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 2: narration of philosophy that a young woman who feels discarded, yes, disvalued, abused, 137 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: discarded by society in a way that doesn't give her 138 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 2: and all of those women in Seattle at the time 139 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: who were taken a real I think importance in this story. 140 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: The news stories, whereas they always are sensationalized, they were 141 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 2: sex workers. That's an important thing to talk about in 142 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: this particular story. You might have mentioned it in your intro, 143 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: but that's who he prayed he was targeting. So it's 144 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 2: easy to think, well, these gals had it coming, But 145 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: why were they there in the first place. Yes, that 146 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 2: character is examined through a tenderness and an inner monologue, 147 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: an evolution that John peel Meyer gave it. John peel 148 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 2: Meyer is an amazing playwright. Agnes God is one of 149 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 2: his most famous plays and that is an examination of 150 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: nuns in a cloistered culture who are experiencing psychological trauma 151 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:18,599 Speaker 2: and abuse at the hands of the men in the 152 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: Catholic leadership, priests and even the women who are protecting them. 153 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: He's really a feminist writer that people. I don't feel 154 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: like he's ever characterized that way, but he truly is 155 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: one of the og feminist writers. 156 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: Yes, he's a man. And here's something else that your 157 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: viewers and listeners may not know. He plays Gary Wridgwell 158 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: in this mini series. The man who wrote it plays 159 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: the Green River Killer, and his performance is staggering. 160 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: You know, I've watched a lot of the documentary footage 161 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: of this man and it is uncanny the you know, 162 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: the sort of the I was going to say the 163 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: soul of the character, but or the lack thereof he is. 164 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: He really captures something that that that was in this 165 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: man in real life. It's so. 166 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 2: Well, you know what I think it is as is 167 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: very potent when you're examining the profile and how interesting 168 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: this story was that the FBI expert got it all wrong. 169 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: Got it all wrong, got it all wrong. 170 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: And they were searching for you know what is it? 171 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: Text? Some big guy who was, you know. 172 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: A capacity, the physical. 173 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: Loner, didn't have a wife, didn't have any of the things. 174 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: It was literally the opposite, right, And who did get 175 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: it right as Ted Bundy. They spoke with him and 176 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: Ted Bundy nailed it. 177 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: Yep. That's one of the most bizarre things that they 178 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: go to speak with Ted Bundy in prison to get 179 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: his input on how to find this serial killer. And 180 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: I also know you're talking about just going back to 181 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: what you said before. You know, one of my questions 182 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: was going to be how much agency do you think 183 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: that TV movies should have over changing the truth and 184 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: not exactly being true to the facts. But you said 185 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: it so beautifully that this story, the way it's told, 186 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: it actually is enhanced by not only using the facts, 187 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: by creating these women, you have the ability to tell 188 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: a fuller story actually and make it not just about 189 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: the numbers and the the violence and the actual crime itself. 190 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:11,359 Speaker 2: Yes, and to see the family dynamic that was created 191 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 2: in our particular family, the lack of resources, a family 192 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 2: living on the edges where any moment that a paycheck 193 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 2: doesn't come through, they live in a mobile home that 194 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 2: those while it the set the artists, pardon me, the design, 195 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: the production design. I remember walking in net that set 196 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: and seeing the care. If you look at at Amy's 197 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: character's bedroom, the lonely vintage lamp and her rooms, it's 198 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 2: a girl's room. Her mother is trying. Her mother wanted 199 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: to give her a sense of home. And as Amy's 200 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: character says, this mother chooses men badly. She goes through men. 201 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: And it's not about sex with her, this mother. It's 202 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: about security and a man in their lives, even a 203 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: bad man who rapes her daughter in their home. And 204 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: this mother refuses to believe it. You know, she knows 205 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: it's true, right, but she punishes her daughter for saying 206 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: the truth. She defends this man because that's her survival. 207 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 2: She's a waitress and living on the edge. And it's 208 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: an existential moment for this mother that she chooses something 209 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 2: that is unconscionable. But I think we all know that 210 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: women without agency often make decisions yes are tragic. And 211 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 2: then sadly, her daughter hooks up with a guy who 212 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: will only use her. 213 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: Yep, And this reveals how hurt people hurt people, and 214 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: abused people just go into that same cycle of abuse. 215 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: And then Na talks about that. The voiceover this young 216 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: girl is a real philosopher, right right, she is thinking 217 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: things through and fate is the big theme. It's Greek 218 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 2: tragedy in a way. Fate. Are we responsible for our 219 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: for what happens to us? Or are we merely on 220 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: the train for the ride and nothing is going to 221 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: stop it? And how do you reconcile when you realize 222 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: both things are true? 223 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: Right? 224 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 2: Right, both things are true? And how you reconcile living 225 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: in a culture where liars like Gary Ridgewell, he was 226 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: a great liar. You see this in our story, and 227 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 2: you see it because they caught him. You know they 228 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: got him because he's so convincing. 229 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: Right. And then once he is actually caught in the 230 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: documentary footage that I've watched, you see this man tell 231 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: a lie straight to them. His face does not change. 232 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: And then they say, well, we know you're lying because 233 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: of this, and he says, right by yeah, and here's why, 234 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: and then gives an explanation of why. It's what really 235 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: strikes me about all of these cases, but this one 236 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: really in particular for both people, for the victims and 237 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: for Gary Bridgeway himself. It's everybody it's all about needing 238 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: love and care and mattering right, and the when you 239 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: don't have that or when you have it in a 240 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: very twisted and warped way, how that can inform your life. 241 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: And it's really sort of it's just jarring. It's very 242 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: moving because it's the simplest thing ever, but it's actually 243 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: the most important part of being human. 244 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 2: I want to read something to you. Amy and I 245 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 2: are connected in a lot of ways, and not believe it. 246 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 2: She's by one of my dear friends who has now 247 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: become one of the top acting. 248 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: Coaches, Lee Lee Hilton Smith. 249 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 2: Lee coached Amy, I believe. When I was invited to 250 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 2: do this, I thought, let me just reach out and 251 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: maybe I'll talk to Amy too at some point, because 252 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 2: she could speak more for herself than. 253 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: I love that. Yes, but. 254 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: Lee, I said, do you remember were you part of this? 255 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: And she said, yeah, I think so. But and I 256 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 2: told her that I was coming to do this, and 257 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 2: I even ask you, I want to be on a podcast. 258 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: I don't know whether she would because she's very protective 259 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: of the way she walks science. But I'm going to 260 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 2: read something to you that is directly related to what 261 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: you just said. How do we get in their minds 262 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 2: what they meaning? The people that are capable of this, 263 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 2: I think we know so many people who are who 264 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 2: are professional liars, who are compulsive, and they are sociopathic, narcissists, 265 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: and they are at the highest levels of everything, certainly 266 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 2: in our culture yep. But someone who is who will 267 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 2: be led to murder and the kind of murder that 268 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 2: this man dies did is worth noting to figure out 269 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: the psychology that what they were saying to themselves to 270 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 2: justify their actions. She at least worked on a couple 271 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: of these, so again she may be worth checking in with. 272 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: That. 273 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: Even people like Ted Bundy, they to figure out their 274 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 2: psychology and what motivates the parts of themselves that were 275 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 2: broken that needed validation, and as Li says, it's fascinating 276 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: for me to figure out, not to figure out, but 277 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 2: to realize in research that they are bearing levels of 278 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 2: personal accomplishment. 279 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: Yes. 280 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: Yes, depending on how someone murders another person, Strangulation is 281 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 2: one thing because it's usually done from behind, which is 282 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: what the Green River killer did yep. And there are 283 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 2: other other modes of killing that you know are even 284 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: more personal because they have to do with being face 285 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 2: to face right, and not with a weapon that is 286 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 2: close and personal. When someone is feeling small and so 287 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 2: many aggressive crime scenes are moted by a feeling or 288 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: a fear of being inconsequential, there is a connection there. 289 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: If they feel inconsequential, then they can use this action 290 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 2: to feel consequential. It's not just hunting, right, success. 291 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:42,719 Speaker 1: Yes, success actually being acknowledged for yeah, their achievements. It 292 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: is you know, this is why I'm so fascinated by 293 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: these things. You know, people can say this is like 294 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: a morbid fascination. It really is about the human condition 295 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: and right, what we are capable as capable of as 296 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: human beings, of beautiful, great grand things and horrific things. 297 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: And I always think, you know, it's shortsighted for us 298 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: to kind of say put people in these bockets that, 299 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: oh that person's just crazy. You know, they've done horrible things, 300 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: they're just crazy. It's really how did we get there? 301 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: We are all human beings, and so this is again 302 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: why I really feel like this particular series really aims 303 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: to focus in on that how did we get there? 304 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: How did these women come to this decision to be 305 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: where they are? Or oftentimes you know, they don't have 306 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: any they have no other way to go. 307 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I as I was watching it. What also rang 308 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 2: so true is they were in this story manipulate by men. 309 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 2: This young this young gal is abused by the man 310 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 2: that her mother brings in the house. 311 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And she has no other reference, right. 312 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: That's and then she chooses. She falls in love with 313 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: a very charming, sexy young guy who you think, well, 314 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 2: they're they're they're they're matched in ways that makes sense. 315 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: And he's a drug addict, and he he pimps her 316 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 2: to get drugs. He sleeps with somebody else, not somebody 317 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 2: that she cares about, not somebody who forces themselves upon her. 318 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 2: But she makes a choice to give up her body 319 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 2: for the sake of a guy who who she does love, 320 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: who she does trust, and who is also hooking her 321 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: on drugs and the manipulation of men. The killer to 322 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 2: make these young women think that he's safe. He's on 323 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: a suite, he talks about his kids, he talks about 324 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: his wife. 325 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 1: I was so struck by that that that is really 326 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: it's so diabolical to carry a picture of your child 327 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: to put these women at ease. So did you once 328 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: you didn't? I know you said at the start that 329 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: you didn't know much about the case before you started 330 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: the series, but did you do research on it at 331 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: that point? How much did you learn? Did you want 332 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: to know more or did you want to keep it 333 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 1: more about just the story of you and your daughter 334 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: in a script? 335 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 2: Of course, I read the script, so you know, you 336 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: never don't do a movie without reading the script. And 337 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 2: that script was enough for me to understand I'm serving 338 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: something dark, but my role in it is about that 339 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 2: the average person miss saying what's going on right underneath 340 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: their eyes, and the desperation that people who are on 341 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 2: the edges of security or insecurity with your economic status 342 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 2: walk through all the time, and how you have to deflect. 343 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 2: You can't let all of the threats come in because 344 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: you would be worn out. Yes, I was playing during 345 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 2: that time. I'd been playing and I still do a 346 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 2: lot of polished women, women of privilege, women who had access, 347 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 2: women who were strong, who had their own agency. This 348 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 2: character doesn't, and that was interesting for me. I'm the 349 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 2: character actress, so I always am grateful for the opportunity 350 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 2: to explore something else, and I don't think at that point, Yeah, 351 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 2: I hadn't started playing being killers myself, and now I 352 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: have played quite a few killers. 353 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: This is another question I wanted to ask you. You know, 354 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 1: I don't think I have ever played someone. First of all, 355 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: I've never played somebody who's a real person who existed 356 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: in history. But nor have I played someone who is 357 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: so like the circumstances are so dark and so bleak. 358 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: So how did that? How did it or didn't it 359 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: stay with you on the on the daily, both while 360 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: you're on set, but then in the aftermath, like, how 361 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: did it impact your. 362 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 2: You possibly shooting this, I remember, I remember the pain 363 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 2: of hurting Amy, and my character hurts hers physically and psychologically. 364 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 2: And I remember in that mobile home the tenderness with 365 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 2: which it was decorated, the homeliness that was there, and 366 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 2: the compression of the size of the space and how 367 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: trapped they felt. And then at the end when she's gone. 368 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:32,239 Speaker 2: We worked hard on my character going from presentational and 369 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 2: going out into the world and trying to look younger 370 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: than she is and dressed up for her waitress job, 371 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:46,239 Speaker 2: chose frosted lip gloss that I chose to put on 372 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,719 Speaker 2: while she wants to tell me something really hard and 373 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 2: I'm rushing and I'm so self involved that I never 374 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 2: even I ask what's wrong, but I don't take the 375 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: time to listen. I don't really want to know. And 376 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 2: by the end I see this woman who has is 377 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: paying the price for her ignorance, for her willful ignorance. 378 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: And we chose to have me sitting on the outside 379 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: of the trailer on a step which you want here 380 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 2: come in and out of. She's she's on the outside 381 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,479 Speaker 2: of her life now and once again she's putting something 382 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 2: to her mouth to silence the thoughts, to soothe, and 383 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 2: it's this time it's a long nick yep beer. 384 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: The feeling that I got in watching that was this 385 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,479 Speaker 1: this woman who comes out of that tiny space and 386 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: now is sitting outside with this expansive world around her, 387 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: and she is downloading. She doesn't really have anything now, 388 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: like she's lost so much and all of that space 389 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: is just the vast us around her and she doesn't 390 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: she doesn't she's lost her child. It's a really poignant 391 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: it's a very uh. Yeah, I think it's just a 392 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: great choice. 393 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 2: That was normal, right, you know, normally it was Yeah. 394 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 2: I don't know whether it was. I can't can't remember 395 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: if it was in the script that way. But Norma 396 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 2: saw it and we shot on a day we were shooting. 397 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 2: We shot in Winnipeg, Canada, which is the That's the 398 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 2: Prairie if you don't know, Yeah, Manitoba, it's the prairie. 399 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: And there it was the summer and there was a 400 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 2: huge storm coming up and you could see the clouds, 401 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: the gray just rolling in. And she knew that light 402 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 2: because that's where she's from. She knew the lights exactly right. 403 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: It was foreboding, It was heavy, and it's the mood 404 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 2: that we all need to wrap this thing up. And 405 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 2: it also looks like the Pacific northwest, right, it doesn't hit. 406 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: Oh, definitely. Yeah. 407 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: The ions in the air are. 408 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, dense right, that dense green and yeah, yeah. 409 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: How did it feel too, be shooting this and knowing 410 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: that this man is still alive that while you're I mean, 411 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: there are so many parts of this that just must 412 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: have been a lot to metabolize. 413 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I hadn't seen John's portrayal at that point, 414 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 2: so I wasn't. I didn't feel as connected to Gary 415 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 2: Killer as I did to the Green River and the 416 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 2: people who live there whose lives he affected. They are 417 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 2: really smart, smart in sit into the narrative about how 418 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 2: many lives this man's actions touched. The families, of course, 419 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 2: of those who were lost to his actions, but the 420 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: teams of detectives and the judicial system members who were 421 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: working and failing and struggling and obsessed. I just want 422 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: to shout out. Every performance in this movie is so anchored. 423 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 2: It's again because we have the luxury of storytelling time 424 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: that you see, they can the camera can rest with someone, 425 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 2: the camera can reveal how they're haunted in the middle 426 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: of the night wondering why can't they crack this, why 427 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 2: can't they figure out? Tom Cavanaugh is so beautifully honest. 428 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 2: He plays the lead detective, Yes, lead detective who was 429 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 2: as a father. He's a religious man. You know, faith 430 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 2: is a big part of this story. Yes, he refers 431 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,959 Speaker 2: to his faith. His daughter, his wife says at one 432 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: point when he's brought these pictures home, and she says, 433 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: you said you weren't going to bring this into our home, 434 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 2: into our house. They have young kids, and she says 435 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 2: that with a question. He said why, and she says, 436 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 2: you need help, And he says, I pray every day 437 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: and it's just it's sincere honest, and she said, I'm 438 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 2: not talking about that you need to get a new computer, 439 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: but he is relying on his faith. He needs help 440 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 2: and he's going to faith for that. 441 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: And I also felt it was really interesting how you know, 442 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: as you say, this man has children and small children 443 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: in the home, and so how do you Number one, 444 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: you can't separate at a certain point, work and life, 445 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: home life, they are always going to mesh in some regard, 446 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: but also this idea of how do you share horrific 447 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: things with children? Right? You can't completely shield them from it, right, 448 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: and then at a certain point you have to be 449 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: able to And I know this from my own experience 450 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: of friends having very very tragic things happen that we 451 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: have had to share with our daughter. And you know, 452 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: you can't just shield it and act like everything's fine, 453 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: because kids know. Kids understand instinctually when something does not 454 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: feel right, so you can't lie to them. But you 455 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: also don't want to just dump all of this information 456 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: on them. And I loved that scene where his daughter 457 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: comes up to him, you know, and says something to 458 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: the effect of Daddy, like, I'm proud of you are 459 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: I understand what you're doing and you get this says 460 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: that this child knows he's doing something very very challenging 461 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: and very dark, but it's important. And I thought that 462 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: was beautiful. 463 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it makes me think of the series 464 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: that I'm called Joe Picket. It's about a game warden 465 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 2: in Wyoming who ends up solving crimes and murders. And 466 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 2: it's a it's a wonderful best selling novel series, and 467 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 2: we did two seasons on Paramount Plus. And he's a 468 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: family man and crime ends up coming to his to him, 469 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 2: to his family. You think about what kids who are 470 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 2: exposed to crimes see, and in this story Joe Picket, 471 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 2: what draws him to being a protector is that he 472 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 2: himself grew up in an abusive household. Right, And that's 473 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 2: the same thing. 474 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: That's the same story with Tom. 475 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 2: So we we know kids live it now. I mean 476 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 2: the media exposes them all the time, everything, right, you 477 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 2: know the world. How do you protect the innocence? I'm 478 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 2: not sure? But what you what you get in this 479 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: story is someone who grew up with that wound, that damage, 480 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 2: and and how that becomes his secret now his superpower, 481 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 2: not secret, but his superpower, right, right, And we need 482 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 2: those heroes. We need the broken, the wounded warriors. 483 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I think that that gives so much. Those 484 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: are the things that I'm interested in, is you know, 485 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: what we all go through as human beings and the 486 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: You know this certainly in American culture also, we don't 487 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: like to talk about difficult things, and we like everything 488 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: to be very tied up and pretty and young and petite, 489 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,439 Speaker 1: and you know, life is just simply not that. And 490 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: when we don't incorporate all of the good and the bad, 491 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: you know, there's great hope and going through challenge and 492 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: seeing someone who can overcome that, not only overcome it, 493 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: but actually use what they went through in order to 494 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: inform their life in a positive way and to influence 495 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: other people, like to actually use the difficulty to come 496 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: through the other side. I think it's just a beautiful 497 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: message and an important one. 498 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 2: And it's what fairy tales, the good Ones, grit Ye did, 499 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 2: and those Greek tragedies Esophocles, Eschylus, Euripides, they write about murder, patricide. 500 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 2: It's there. It's in all of those stories, these ancient 501 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 2: stories when our humans were were gathering to understand themselves. 502 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 2: What catharsis is used and meant to do. And then 503 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 2: Grim's recognized it. You know, the European culture new to 504 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 2: put it in the context for children, right, right, we 505 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 2: find it now in a lot of ways in Marvel. 506 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: Right. 507 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 2: We keep telling these stories. We need to keep telling 508 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 2: these stories. And AI. I just was seeing something on 509 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 2: my today about AI chat bots that come into the 510 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 2: lives of young people, sayteen fourteen, fifteen, Yes, at the 511 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 2: time when they need to be able to explore the 512 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 2: flaws in their judgment, to prepare them to make decisions 513 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 2: on their own. Yes, not maybe prior to that age, 514 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 2: but that age. As they are developing independence and thinking, 515 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 2: they need pushback, they need challenged. And these AI bots 516 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 2: are sycophantic. Yes, you're right about everything. 517 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: Everything you do is right everything. Yes, oh, I agree. 518 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: That will handicap them as they grow older. In the 519 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 2: real world. It isn't about protecting all the time. Sometimes 520 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 2: it's just exposing and exploring and managing consequences with them. 521 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 2: That's why it's such a tight rope to be a 522 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 2: parent now. But we are uncharted territory with our younger 523 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 2: members of our culture being shielded in a way that. 524 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: Does not serve is handicapping them. I think that it 525 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: was exactly the right word. I boy, do I think 526 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: about this on a daily basis. And my daughter's thirteen, 527 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: so she's right in the heart of it. So just 528 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:20,359 Speaker 1: a last couple of questions, So, how do you what's 529 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: your feeling on closure? So in terms of you know, 530 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 1: so the detective has said recently because Gary Ridgeway now 531 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: is apparently very close to death, but he's still in 532 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: prison obviously. And I think someone asked Dave Reikert, the detective, 533 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, how does he feel about closure? Does he 534 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: think that's going to give the victims family's closure? And 535 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean he says no, I agree. How do you 536 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: feel about this idea of closure after some thing like this? 537 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 2: I had two Yeah, I have two thoughts. Vengeance is 538 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 2: a very satisfying emotion. It is very It's as human 539 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 2: as any other that we have, right, I mean, road rage, 540 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 2: we get it, We understand you. You want to protect 541 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 2: these people will not get it. And he pled guilty. 542 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 2: He turned himself and and and and he he solved 543 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 2: the he helped answer the questions. So there's that at 544 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 2: least they know the rights, loved ones knew and they 545 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 2: needed to. 546 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: Know which was we should say, I'm not sure in 547 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: case some of the listeners don't know they they gave 548 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: him that particular plea in order to give some of 549 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: the victim's family some sort of, if not closure and 550 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: understanding of what happened to their loved one. 551 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 2: So they knew their loved one was indeed the victim. 552 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 2: This is where they died, This how they died. That 553 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 2: sounds horrific, but also I think we know through psychology 554 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:10,439 Speaker 2: not knowing can be worse. Yes, rest, yes you never 555 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 2: get to rest, so that I don't think it was 556 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 2: a wrong call for the judicial system to offer that. 557 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,479 Speaker 2: What I also know from my psychiatrist's husband is that 558 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 2: many people who are behind bars will never have Those 559 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 2: who are guilty will never have remorse. It's not possible. 560 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 2: They do not live there. There are people who will 561 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 2: never feel that. The sociopathic narcissist again that we have 562 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: populated with we make decisions for the rest of the 563 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 2: world currently currently remorse, they have no empathy. They We 564 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 2: will never change that about them. Our job is to 565 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 2: foster empathy, to foster understanding, to foster healthy environment so 566 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 2: that young people that are perhaps on that path may 567 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 2: have an intervention right earlier, sooner rather than later. I 568 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 2: did a movie, a true story, crime story that I produced. 569 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 2: Giancarlo Esposito and I starred in a television film called 570 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 2: Five Desperate Hours, a true story of a man who 571 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 2: invaded a woman's home while she was there. He was 572 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 2: running from the law. He held her captive in Durham, 573 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 2: North Carolina. She was a duke professor. She just happened 574 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 2: to be home. He chose the door that he was 575 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 2: entering not because he knew she was there, because he 576 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 2: was running from the cops. He had stolen a car 577 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 2: and was being chased. And they got to know each 578 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 2: other in that five hour period, and she not only 579 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 2: helped him surrender, but was there through his trial. She 580 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 2: wasn't the one who was pressing charges. It was the 581 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 2: person whose car he had taken and the robbery that 582 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,240 Speaker 2: he had committed prior to He was desperate. He was desperate, 583 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 2: and he tried to take his own life in their home. 584 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 2: In that home, it was the anniversary of his brother's 585 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 2: suicide that was creating this storm within him on the 586 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,839 Speaker 2: day that he committed this crime, And she herself had 587 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 2: understood that because she herself had tried to take her 588 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 2: own life at one point they bonded this And we 589 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 2: tell this story because the conclusion to it is that 590 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 2: they stayed close even while he was wow prison sentence, 591 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 2: which wasn't long, but significant, and that understanding these two 592 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 2: people were so vastly different, had something in common. 593 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,800 Speaker 1: Yes, that humanness, the ability to actually connect with another 594 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:06,280 Speaker 1: human being, is what is the saving grace of life. 595 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 2: And these I wonder if the people who lost their 596 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 2: fam their their loved one to the Green River killer, 597 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 2: if they found each other through the trial, if they 598 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 2: stayed in touch, if they were able to share the unspeakable, 599 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 2: the horrific that nobody else will understand. That may be 600 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 2: where the healing understanding comes far more than a sense 601 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:33,280 Speaker 2: of closure. That that Gary Rittel will ever feel anything. 602 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 2: Him being gone may not shift for anyone nearly as 603 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 2: much as sharing an understanding of loss right somebody who's 604 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 2: been through it. 605 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: Sharon, you're just the best. 606 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 2: I'm so pleased to be part of this. Thank you 607 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 2: for inviting me. My role it is not big, but 608 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 2: my examination, my appreciation, my understanding of this is increased 609 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,320 Speaker 2: by your interest in this. And I tell you, people 610 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 2: should take some time and watch this because it is 611 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 2: it's human nature and tenderness, the good and the bad 612 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 2: in a very very poetically told story. And I give 613 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,400 Speaker 2: all credit to the people that wrote it, John Pielmeyer, 614 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 2: that directed it, Norma Bailey, the actors who phenomenal cast 615 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 2: allround life into it and took in a real hard truth. 616 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 2: Give it back to us with the humanity that helps 617 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,439 Speaker 2: us understand each other. 618 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, people can check it out at streaming on 619 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: several different platforms. The capture of the Green River Killer. 620 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:07,799 Speaker 1: Sharon Lawrence, your sparkling star. I am so happy that 621 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 1: you spent this time with us today. And is there 622 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,759 Speaker 1: anything where can people find you? Is there anything else 623 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 1: you wanted to put out there? 624 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 2: Well, I mentioned Five Desperate Hours. You can find that 625 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 2: on YouTube. Benjeane Carlo Weisposito. 626 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: Well he is amazing. 627 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, what else do I need to say? And I 628 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 2: talked about Joe Pickett because that's a wonderful show. Michael Dorman. 629 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 2: If you know Michael Dorman, he was in for All Mankind, 630 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 2: he was in Yes Patriot on Amazon hit playing a 631 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 2: reluctant serial killer. He's on I think it's called Frontier 632 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,359 Speaker 2: and Australian series. He's great. David Allen Greer is in 633 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 2: that series. 634 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: I love David. Yes. 635 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:57,399 Speaker 2: Julianne Gwill Skywalker Hughes, who you'll hear more about. She's 636 00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,359 Speaker 2: in the New Little House on the Prairie, but she's 637 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 2: Miild in ours. She's a tween now, a child in 638 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 2: ours who who goes through some interesting stuff as as 639 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 2: I was saying, you know children who witness hard things 640 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,880 Speaker 2: and how that's processed. I'm in a play in New 641 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,840 Speaker 2: York and January called pen Pals Loving Story, a very loving, loving. 642 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: Story, beautiful ware. What theater. 643 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,760 Speaker 2: It's at the Daryl Roth Theater. I'll be there January 644 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,760 Speaker 2: seventh through the eighteenth. Marie McCormick and I are starring 645 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 2: together in this story of women who were connected as 646 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 2: pen pals. They were fourteen years old in nineteen forty 647 00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 2: eight and they stayed pen pals four a long time. 648 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 2: One is in New New Jersey and the others in Sheffield, England. 649 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,879 Speaker 2: So we bring oh beautiful truth to this and it's great. 650 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 2: The hallmark of it all is wrapping up now, but 651 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 2: you can always find some good comfort in Hallmark's. Mine 652 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,759 Speaker 2: is the Grand Old Opry Christmas, we filmed the one 653 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 2: hundred year anniversary of the Grand Old Opry and I 654 00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,319 Speaker 2: got to live at the Opry basically for a week, 655 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 2: and we featured that that very American institution. So well. 656 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,359 Speaker 2: And then I'll be doing Steel Magnolias, a play at 657 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 2: Playmaker's Repertory Theater in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. That's my 658 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,919 Speaker 2: alma mater. You unc Chapel Hill. 659 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: Oh really, yes, wait when are you doing that? My 660 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,520 Speaker 1: family is now in North Carolina, so they live in Pinehurst. 661 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 2: Fantastic. It's an easy drive. We run April the eighth 662 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,880 Speaker 2: through the twenty sixth. Beth Grant, who you may know, 663 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 2: oh greatest character actress. Yes, I art, will be in 664 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,760 Speaker 2: that play. 665 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:36,440 Speaker 1: Fantastic. 666 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 2: And I will continue to do a solo play about 667 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,759 Speaker 2: Catherine Graham that I've been doing for a while called 668 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,200 Speaker 2: The Shot. It's an important story about the publisher of 669 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,160 Speaker 2: the Washington Post who was publisher during the Watergate eras 670 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,879 Speaker 2: and the great but it's the story of her personal life, 671 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 2: the struggles that she had. Her husband had bipolar disorder 672 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,120 Speaker 2: and took his life six three and three days later, 673 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,320 Speaker 2: she took over the Post, but she suffered a great 674 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:09,400 Speaker 2: deal with his his suffering, and we understand how she 675 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 2: became the woman that she is, a reluctant but powerful 676 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,680 Speaker 2: leader because of the struggles that she faced. So I'm 677 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,839 Speaker 2: very proud of that. That piece, which well dates, will 678 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,520 Speaker 2: be determined for Okay, I've been doing it for five 679 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,800 Speaker 2: years now, so great. It's out there. 680 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: And you'll put it out. Your social media is at 681 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:27,240 Speaker 1: Sharon E. Lawrence. 682 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 2: Sharon E stand for Elizabeth. That's that's my name, my mama. 683 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,239 Speaker 2: Every once in a while when she was calling to 684 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,319 Speaker 2: be from back of the house to come home, it 685 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,280 Speaker 2: was Sharon Lisbeth. 686 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 1: Oh, well, thank you again so much. This has been 687 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,960 Speaker 1: an absolute pleasure. You're such a pro and a lovely spirit, 688 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,880 Speaker 1: and I am honored that you are here today with me. 689 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,759 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, and I love that we have 690 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,759 Speaker 2: Lee Hilton Smith in common. She's be worth worth talking to. 691 00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:59,799 Speaker 1: She I'm going to contact her now. 692 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:01,759 Speaker 2: Congratulations on this. 693 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,239 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much. 694 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 2: I enjoyed our time. 695 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:06,719 Speaker 1: Love hate me too. 696 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:08,720 Speaker 2: Bye. 697 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: I want to hear what cases you all are interested 698 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: in hearing about. What are you watching that you want 699 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 1: us to talk about? What actors or producers or directors 700 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: do you want to hear from, Hit us up in 701 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 1: our DMS at Killer Thriller Pod on Instagram and TikTok 702 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,680 Speaker 1: and let us know and make sure to follow the 703 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: pod on socials and subscribe to Amy and TJ Presents 704 00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:34,319 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. And that will wrap us 705 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,399 Speaker 1: up for today until next time.