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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Coolbyble Did Cool Stuff, the podcast

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Speaker 2: where I talk about how I worked all day yesterday,

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Speaker 2: so I made cookies and you're close to midnight.

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Speaker 1: What kind of bake cookies?

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Speaker 2: Really bad? Chocolate chip cookies that I don't specifically recommend

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Speaker 2: the recipe of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but like chocolate chip cookies are just automatically not bad.

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Speaker 2: Oh I ate them all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I allowed to talk yet Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean we'll introduce you in a minute, but.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. But in the meantime, you guys, if you

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Speaker 3: haven't read the title or the promotional material, you can

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Speaker 3: just guess whose voice is speaking. It's hard to ultimately,

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Speaker 3: truly profoundly mess up a chocolate chip cookie because you

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Speaker 3: still got sugar and you got chocolate in there. But

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Speaker 3: I very much am feeling I'm very much in my

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Speaker 3: cozy baking fuck around and find out era where I

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Speaker 3: want to just see And it feels a little wasteful

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Speaker 3: at some point because sometimes I mess up the cookies.

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Speaker 3: But I keep specifically trying to do cookies, and I've

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Speaker 3: landed on a pretty good peanut butter cookie gluten free.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, see it wouldn't work for me because I'm

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Speaker 2: vegan and I don't believe there's such thing as a

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Speaker 2: good vegan gluten free baking. I think you can do

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Speaker 2: one or the other.

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Speaker 3: You can't do both. Yeah, you can't do both. That's

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Speaker 3: just sad.

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Speaker 2: If you're listening and you do both, I applaud your.

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Speaker 1: Bevery my very good friend Lacey, who makes baked goods

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Speaker 1: and is the reason why I don't make my own

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Speaker 1: baked goods anymore, because why would I make my own

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Speaker 1: when I could eat the ones that she makes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she makes all kinds of things for people with diet

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Speaker 1: he restrictions and allergies and is extremely talented, So it

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Speaker 1: does exist.

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Speaker 3: She probably is extremely talented. I will pause it though,

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Speaker 3: that the vegan and gluten free double header and one

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Speaker 3: it's hard, hard, yeah to nail. But if you are

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Speaker 3: vegan and gluten free, boy, I bet that cookie tastes

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Speaker 3: so damn good.

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Speaker 2: That's a decent point.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is a show called Cool People Did

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Speaker 2: Cool Stuff, and it's sometimes about cookies. This time it's

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Speaker 2: not as much about cookies, though it's clearly a little

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Speaker 2: bit about cookies. And I'm your host Margaret Kiljoy and

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Speaker 2: every week we talk about some cool people did cool stuff,

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Speaker 2: like me for making cookies. I didn't have any almond

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Speaker 2: milk that was playing. I didn't realize I was out,

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Speaker 2: so I use chocolate oat milk and it's why they

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Speaker 2: tasted weird. That's really interesting. But my guest today is

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Speaker 2: the one and only Katie Stole, who is the well hello,

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Speaker 2: the host of even More News, a show that is okay.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because you posit that this is the only

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Speaker 2: news show, even More News, but in the title it

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Speaker 2: implies that you're lying.

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Speaker 3: It does imply that, doesn't it. But we never get

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Speaker 3: to the bottom of that.

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Speaker 2: There's only one way to find out. It's even more.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, I'm pretty sure it's the first and

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Speaker 3: only news podcast, but I don't listen to podcasts, so

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no one, no one.

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Speaker 3: That's also a lie. I listened to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Every day.

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Speaker 3: Someone's coming with me on my walks in the morning, and.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely walking my dog without a podcast. Whatever I do,

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Speaker 2: look at the choice.

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Speaker 3: This just a waste of time. Enjoy nature please.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Also with us is our producer Sophie Hi.

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Speaker 1: Sophie Hi just want to shout out my friend again

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Speaker 1: space lace gluted free confections.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I'm gonna write that down.

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Speaker 1: She's she She is a beautiful.

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Speaker 2: What city are we talking about?

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Speaker 3: For people? She's the Pacific North Delivery.

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Speaker 2: But she ships like they go in the mail.

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm not one hundred percent sure about that,

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Speaker 1: but if you're ever in the Pacific Northwest, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of markets and stuff. Okay, and yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: want to shout her out of the shipping she made

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Speaker 1: the most fantastical like shinned heel cake gluten free with nothing,

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Speaker 1: with nothing I'm allergic to for my birthday.

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Speaker 3: It was very beautiful, nice.

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Speaker 4: Nice.

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Speaker 2: Our audio engineer is Daniel, which is not Ian. So

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Speaker 2: every want to say hi to Daniel.

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Speaker 1: Hi Danel, Hi Daniel Danel, but also Hi Ian, I

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Speaker 1: miss you.

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Speaker 2: So yeah Hi Ian?

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Speaker 3: Okay, Hello Ian oar.

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Speaker 2: The music was written for us by Unwoman high on Woman. So, Katie, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you tricked me into I was on your podcast an

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Speaker 2: hour ago and you, yeah, as part of the interview,

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Speaker 2: asked me what today was going to be about. But

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Speaker 2: I'll pretend like you don't know. Yeah, you ever heard

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Speaker 2: of the British Empire. You know what that does.

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Speaker 3: Ring a bell. I'm vaguely familiar with the concept of

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Speaker 3: the British Empire.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an episode of How Cool. Wait, no,

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Speaker 2: the people who follow Oh you ever heard of the

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Speaker 2: Easter Rising?

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Speaker 3: I have. I have heard of the Easter Rising.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I guess it's not particularly obscure, but we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about it anyway because it's fucking cool.

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Speaker 2: Today's topic is the Easter Rising. It's when a motley

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Speaker 2: collection of rights poets, musicians, working class, trade union organizers, queers, suffragettes,

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Speaker 2: school teachers, sick and disabled folks, and dropouts from the

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Speaker 2: aristocracy took over the capital of Dublin in Ireland, the

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Speaker 2: second city of the British Empire, and did their part

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Speaker 2: in tearing apart the largest empire of the world's ever known.

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Speaker 2: Like when I say that, in nineteen thirteen, the British

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Speaker 2: Empire ruled more than four hundred million people, Around twenty

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Speaker 2: three percent of the world's population was under.

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Speaker 3: The staggering number. I know. It's like, I know, so

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Speaker 3: many problems today could be traced to them. So that's

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Speaker 3: a fun thing always, yeah, in the back of your mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, even a lot of the stuff that's America's fault,

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Speaker 2: it first comes from being Britain's fault.

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Speaker 3: It's like, because who are we without Britain?

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, free? Well probably not in North America. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: those who rose during the Easter Rising didn't agree about everything.

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Speaker 2: They didn't even agree actually about most things, including very

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Speaker 2: important things. They were They disagreed on some pretty major

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Speaker 2: and important issues. They agreed on one thing and that

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Speaker 2: was enough for them. The one thing they agreed on

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Speaker 2: was fuck the British Empire.

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Speaker 3: It's a good thing to agree on.

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Speaker 2: It's a it's a pretty you think it's a universal

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Speaker 2: but you know, it took a lot of you would think,

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Speaker 2: a lot of shooting to yeah, to get there, to

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Speaker 2: get free of them. I have done the overall context

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Speaker 2: of Ireland and British and the British colonization of Ireland

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Speaker 2: an awful lot on this show. So I'm going to

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Speaker 2: do the absolute speed run. There's an island called Ireland,

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Speaker 2: wild and untamed and freeish and generally lacked centralized government.

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Speaker 2: For a very long time, folks came together every now

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Speaker 2: and then to do shit like fight off the Viking

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Speaker 2: slavers and shit. Then the British colonized it. Then the

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Speaker 2: British genocided it twice. First when the fuck Oliver Cromwell

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Speaker 2: since his troops around to just like murder everyone, and

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Speaker 2: second when English capitalism colonization watched everyone starve in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the nineteenth century, and in the process they

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Speaker 2: slandered one of the world's most perfect foods, the potato.

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Speaker 2: The potato who was not at fault. It was a

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Speaker 2: thing that fed poor people very well until all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden one year it couldn't keep up because there

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Speaker 2: was a blight, and then because a capital at whatever.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about this bunch of times on the show.

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Speaker 2: Every generation or two, the Irish would revolt, and it

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Speaker 2: went this way for centuries. He usually went badly for

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Speaker 2: the Irish. In the end, Ireland was and is very

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Speaker 2: divided between Catholics and oppressed majority and Protestants and empowered minority.

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Speaker 2: Although both there are both Catholics and Protestants on both

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Speaker 2: sides of every single one of these fights, and for

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Speaker 2: centuries the difference between the two politically wasn't necessarily a

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Speaker 2: big deal until seventeen ninety eight, when England bribed the

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Speaker 2: Protestants by giving them more power over the Catholics. Furthermore,

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Speaker 2: Ireland was colonized and oppressed through landlord And this is

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Speaker 2: the part that doesn't get talked about as much unless

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Speaker 2: you are reading actual Irish history by Irish people. Most

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Speaker 2: people didn't own their land. It was generally owned by

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Speaker 2: British people. Occasionally it was owned by Irish Protestants, and

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Speaker 2: even more rarely and later it was owned by rich

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Speaker 2: asshole Irish Catholics. But that was an awful lot of

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Speaker 2: the fight against colonization is. People weren't like, oh, we

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Speaker 2: specifically are mad at England. Usually they were like, all

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Speaker 2: I have on a landlord, this sucks. I liked when

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Speaker 2: I owned my land.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's easy to misplace your anger at well,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that they sucked to The landlords were bad.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but when you stopped there instead of going further

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Speaker 4: back right, And it was it was that the landlordism

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Speaker 4: was the symptom, yes of the colonization.

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Speaker 2: It was the way in which it expressed. It was

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Speaker 2: one of the many ways of the expressed. It was

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Speaker 2: also shit like you weren't allowed to have a mustache,

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Speaker 2: which the English didn't have a word for. Mustache. Yet

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Speaker 2: I can't even remember what that call today. This isn't

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Speaker 2: a different script that I wrote about this.

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Speaker 3: It was like trying to couple with something clever. But

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Speaker 3: they didn't have a word for mustache. They just didn't

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Speaker 3: even accept that, we're not going to acknowledge the existence

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Speaker 3: of you, that people can grow hair there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Ireland, most of it is now its own

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Speaker 2: country these days, although obviously capitalism is still extracting the

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Speaker 2: wealth of the working class. But they're their own country,

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Speaker 2: mostly because around the turn of the twentieth century, a

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Speaker 2: fuck ton of people put a fuck ton of work

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Speaker 2: in and a fuck ton of blood and they built

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Speaker 2: up powerful oppositional groups of all kinds. In nineteen sixteen,

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Speaker 2: in the middle of World War One, while the British

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Speaker 2: were busy, several groups revolted in what's called the Easter

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Speaker 2: Rising because it took place on Easter. Well, I actually

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Speaker 2: technically took place on Easter Monday instead of Easter Sunday,

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Speaker 2: because they were like.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, oh no, I that was just something that

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Speaker 3: I always struck me. I was like, oh, Eastern Monday,

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Speaker 3: not Easter Sunday. But you have more information about why.

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Speaker 2: Were being clever. They were like, it's too obvious that

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Speaker 2: we're gonna do it on Easter side, because yeah, they

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Speaker 2: knew the Brits were onto them, and the Brits were

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Speaker 2: absolutely onto them, and it was complete. The Brits were

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Speaker 2: like literally like, we're going to wait till the holidays

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Speaker 2: over before I rest all these people. And then they

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Speaker 2: were like, oh, whoops, they acted on the holiday, and

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Speaker 2: but they acted on the Monday instead of the Sunday

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Speaker 2: to kind of like shake things up a little bit,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Also, then they got their Easter Sunday.

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Speaker 2: That's true. Well, actually they spent most of it making bombs.

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Speaker 3: But wait, is that YouTube song Sunday Bloody Sunday?

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Speaker 4: Actually, wow, that's different Easter so Ireland has four Bloody Sundays. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 4: I believe that song is referencing one of the like

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Speaker 4: ones from like I want to say, the seventies. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we're going to talk about one of the bloody Sundays, okay,

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Speaker 4: but unfortunately, well whatever, we'll get to it. Two of

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Speaker 4: them take place in the nineteen tens. Only one of

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Speaker 4: them's in this particular script.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: I had to like look up be like wait, how

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Speaker 2: any of these fucking bloody Sundays are there?

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Speaker 3: Makes sense? Okay, So one of them was a bloody

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Speaker 3: because I guess Monday, bloody Monday doesn't work as well.

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Speaker 2: That is like a fucking Monday. It's a very natural

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Speaker 2: thing to say.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, who does it? I hate fucking Mondays?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Garfields over here. And so in nineteen sixteen

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Speaker 2: they had the Easter Rising. It didn't go well for

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Speaker 2: anyone involved, you know, I mean like, it didn't even

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Speaker 2: go well for the people putting it down because a

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Speaker 2: lot of them got shot too. It was a bit

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Speaker 2: of a shit show and it got a lot of

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Speaker 2: people killed, but it lit the fuse. Within a few years,

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Speaker 2: the Irish War for Independence was raging, which drove the

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Speaker 2: British to the bargaining table. The British very good at

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Speaker 2: divide and conquer. They offered a compromise treaty that told

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Speaker 2: the Irish they could mostly have their country, but they

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Speaker 2: had to swear an oath of allegiance to the British crown,

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Speaker 2: and they had to let the elector out of Northern Io,

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Speaker 2: which was way more Protestant and colonized, decide its own fate. Basically,

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Speaker 2: they were like, we're going to partition Ireland.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: About a third of the country was like, no fucking deal.

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Speaker 2: We're not fucking swearing an oath of allegiance to the

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Speaker 2: fucking crown. What are you talking about. They wanted full freedom,

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Speaker 2: so they fought a civil war against it. The compromise side,

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Speaker 2: the pro treaty side, won this war in nineteen twenty three,

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Speaker 2: and the Irish Republic as we know today was born, well,

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Speaker 2: actually was the Irish Free State until nineteen thirty seven,

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Speaker 2: but whatever. And then the troubles with a capital t

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Speaker 2: started because an awful lot of Ireland was like, but

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Speaker 2: what if we actually still have all of Ireland as

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Speaker 2: a republic the fucking plan. What if we stuck to

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Speaker 2: the fucking plan? You know, Yeah, how about the rest

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Speaker 2: of our island? Yeah, we'd like that too, please, And

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Speaker 2: an awful lot of the rebels also realized what a

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Speaker 2: lot of the older rebels realized. Until you get rid

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Speaker 2: of capitalism, you're not actually getting rid of colonization.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: After nineteen sixteen and after the nineteen twenty one treaty,

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Speaker 2: politics in Ireland gets really really messy. You lose track

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Speaker 2: of good guys and bad guys really quickly. And in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the twentieth century, you've got a lot

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Speaker 2: of like cool people doing questionable things, or questionable people

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Speaker 2: doing cool things, or my favorite, stopped clocks who are

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Speaker 2: currently telling the right time. That's gonna be the next

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Speaker 2: podcast that I'm going to run past everyone. This is

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Speaker 2: stop clocks, Puck. That'll be terrible all the time. The

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Speaker 2: horrible right wing people were technically right. Never mind, I

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Speaker 2: retract Sophy gave you a look. Yeah, Sophy's actually pretty

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Speaker 2: good at pretty good at a job. Like knowing that

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Speaker 2: he's very good.

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Speaker 3: You just have to look at our face.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which you all can't do. Ah No, but we

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Speaker 2: get reason to run a pot the treat Yeah, teen sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Though these people aren't perfect, but there is a clear

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Speaker 2: cut case for their anti colonial revolution, and these are

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Speaker 2: the people who did the revolution. They lost, and by

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Speaker 2: losing they won. Yeah, so the Easter Rising, I will

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Speaker 2: contend it's cool people who do cool stuff.

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Speaker 3: I'll accept that contention. Excellent because we're here to talk

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Speaker 3: about it. So yeah, no, totally, no, that's it. That's

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Speaker 3: I told you about the No. That was the big

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Speaker 3: bird's eye view and the personal part of it. I

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Speaker 3: shook hands with my great great uncle who was shot

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Speaker 3: in the leg while fighting in the Rising. It was

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Speaker 3: this one hundredth birthday in Galway, and I'm sure I've

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Speaker 3: brought this up on the show before, but fuck it.

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Speaker 3: He and all of his brothers except my great grandfather,

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Speaker 3: who'd fled poverty and made his way to Boston, were

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Speaker 3: locked up for a while for their role in the Rising.

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Speaker 3: And I think he's one of the coolest people I've

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Speaker 3: ever met. And so he's not named in this story,

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Speaker 3: but he's a this story and it makes me part

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Speaker 3: of it. I love that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the Easter Rising a tale of two movements is

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Speaker 2: not what we're going to call the show, but of

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Speaker 2: the episode.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, in progress.

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Speaker 2: Yeah they're not opposing movements, but they're very distinct, and

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Speaker 2: it's a good way to understand the Easter Rising. You've

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Speaker 2: got the Irish labor movement, which is heavily syndicalist, and

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Speaker 2: you've got Irish nationalism. One group is fighting for workers'

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Speaker 2: rights against bosses, and the other group fought for the

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Speaker 2: reintroduction of the Irish language and against the Anglicization of Ireland.

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Speaker 2: And along the way they actually fought each other a

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Speaker 2: couple of times because some of the Irish Nationalists were capitalists,

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Speaker 2: and you know a lot of them socialists were not

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Speaker 2: capital none of them actually were.

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Speaker 3: None of them. Yeah yeah, but I thought, uh, this

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Speaker 3: is a four parter by.

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Speaker 2: The way, everyone is listening, and it's going to be

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Speaker 2: worth it. But the awkward part is part ones about

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Speaker 2: the nationalists. Okay, then we'll start with the latter restoring.

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Speaker 3: This is good because to be honest, I find this

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Speaker 3: whole period and all of this very interesting, but it

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Speaker 3: does get confusing when you hear about it and learn

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Speaker 3: about it and trying to keep track of it. So

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Speaker 3: this is very helpful and I already know it is

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Speaker 3: going to be and I'm taking lots of notes for myself.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm glad and honestly like, it's funny. I've made

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Speaker 2: a couple like every now and then someone's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: are you gonna do the you know, the troubles in

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Speaker 2: Northern Ireland. And I actually did end up covering a

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Speaker 2: fair amount because we did an episode about I wanted

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Speaker 2: a way to talk about hunger strikes since we did

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Speaker 2: an episode of hunger strikes and the two groups we

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Speaker 2: talked about the most was Northern Ireland IRA of much

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Speaker 2: later than what we're talking about today, and then also

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Speaker 2: Palestinian Freedom Fighters, oh yeah, and because those are two

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Speaker 2: groups that did amazing work with hunger strikes. But overall

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Speaker 2: I've been like, I don't want to keep track of

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Speaker 2: who the provos are versus the real IRA, versus the

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a million Iras and so instead what

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to talk about today is the beginning. I mean,

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Speaker 2: obviously it's not the beginning beginning, but it's the beginning

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Speaker 2: of a lot of the modern political movements, and it's

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Speaker 2: the stuff that all of them mythologize and draw from.

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Speaker 2: So the nationalists, first of all, Ireland's having this problem

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Speaker 2: right now where there's a bunch of Irish nationalists in

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Speaker 2: a bad way who are trying to like kick out

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Speaker 2: the immigrants and be all right wing and shitty. And

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Speaker 2: so I want to point out that a fucking ton

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Speaker 2: of the Irish nationalists who fought for and got Irish

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Speaker 2: freedom were not one hundred percent Irish by blood. They

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Speaker 2: weren't like pure Gaelic Catholics or whatever the fuck some

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Speaker 2: of them were. As often as not, they were Protestants.

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Speaker 2: They were Anglo Irish, they were Spanish Irish, they were

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Speaker 2: born in England, born in the US, born in Scotland,

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Speaker 2: of direct Welsh defense descent, with no Irarish blood, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. And this is not to invalidate these Irish

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Speaker 2: nationalists who are not like pure blah blah blah. It's

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Speaker 2: to point out to anyone who's using their legacy to

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Speaker 2: promote some like blood and soil, kill all the foreign immigrants, nonsense.

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Speaker 2: Anyone who's doing that as a fascist, who should be shot.

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Speaker 2: The history of Ireland is the history of the galicization

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Speaker 2: of immigrants and or colonization, and so I like the

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Speaker 2: galicization of immigrants more I gus don't live there, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: fuck whatever, fuck the fascists, but fuck.

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Speaker 3: The fascist seems like pretty standard. And I've got family

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Speaker 3: that lived there and they would agree with you, fullheartedly,

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Speaker 3: full threatedly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and overall you will find that in a lot

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Speaker 2: of I mean, Ireland is kind of standing alone among

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Speaker 2: Western European powers right now and supporting the Palestinian people

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Speaker 2: and anti Camial struggle more generally. So that said, some

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Speaker 2: of these nationalists that we're going to talk about are

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Speaker 2: right wing as hell and we're just stopped clock about

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Speaker 2: Irish independence. However, some of them were socialists and internationalists

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Speaker 2: as well as being nationalists, which is contradictory, but it's

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Speaker 2: not we'll talk about it a little bit. Overall. I

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Speaker 2: would say that this group existed before this is the

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Speaker 2: I spent so much time, like trying to research academic

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Speaker 2: articles about how to classify these Irish nationalists into modern

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Speaker 2: right and left politics. Right and left were not clear

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Speaker 2: cut in Irish politics at the time and don't map

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Speaker 2: easily to modern political understandings. We're going to start with

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Speaker 2: not the coolest, but one of the weirdest. We're going

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Speaker 2: to start with a woman named mod Gone mod Gone Yeah,

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Speaker 2: like go nne oh cool. So she's weird as hell.

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Speaker 2: She was born in eighteen seventy seven in England and

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Speaker 2: she's of Anglo Irish descent. But when she was five,

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Speaker 2: her army officer father was stationed in Dublin, so she

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Speaker 2: moved over there. Like several of our heroes today, she

387
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Speaker 2: was a sickly child and she was sick with I

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Speaker 2: don't know how well you know this show, but I

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Speaker 2: think Sophie knows what she was sick with. She was

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Speaker 2: sick with friend of the pod tuberculosis.

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Speaker 3: To say, consumption, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yes, actually that is yeah, yeah, it is consumption.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But since she was rich as shit, she didn't die

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Speaker 2: of it. I mean a lot of richest shit people

396
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Speaker 2: died of it too, but mostly poor people died of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Instead, she like you know, like traveled around and like

399
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Speaker 2: went to like fancy like spas for her health and stuff.

400
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Speaker 2: And since she was rich as shit, she just like

401
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 2: traveled around the world. She's an archetype. There's so many

402
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Speaker 2: archetypes in today's stories. She's like, hello, I am a beautiful,

403
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Speaker 2: sickly woman with tons of money and archetype that will

404
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Speaker 2: exist for a long long time.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, frail woman of.

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Speaker 2: Means yeah absolutely. And she's like she starts fucking the

407
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Speaker 2: right wing Irish poet Yates and he's like obsessed with her.

408
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Speaker 2: She tries to marry her like four times, and every

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Speaker 2: time she's like, nah, I'll fuck you, but I'm not

410
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Speaker 2: going to marry you. You know, yeah smart, And she

411
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Speaker 2: gets into all him as occultism shit like the Hermetic

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Speaker 2: Order of the Golden Dawn, which is okay, yeah, okay, okay.

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Speaker 2: Then this is the weirdest part of the whole fucking

414
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Speaker 2: four part. She starts fucking this other guy and she

415
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Speaker 2: has this kid, and then her kid dies. It's tragic.

416
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Speaker 2: So her and this guy fuck next to her kid's sarcophagus. Oh,

417
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Speaker 2: so that the soul of her dead kid could be

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Speaker 2: reincarnated into the next kid she had.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so that's aology. Scientology as fuck. Now did you

420
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Speaker 3: say she was of the Protestant or the Catholic person?

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Speaker 1: She was like, what if scientology was horny?

422
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Speaker 3: Yeah, basically saying all right, well you know what I'm not.

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Speaker 3: Here's kak Shamer or whatever. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she she does so much for Irish nationals.

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Speaker 2: She's called the Irish Joan of arc Oh. Usually they

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Speaker 2: don't talk about the sarcophagus part incarnation fucking part.

427
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Speaker 1: Wow, that's the thing that got me looking.

428
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Speaker 3: Enough, it's the hook.

429
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Speaker 2: And so she moves into Irish nationalism and she does

430
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Speaker 2: cool shit like write articles called the Famine Queen about

431
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Speaker 2: Queen Victoria. Just a sick and metal and accurate name

432
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Speaker 2: for Queen Victoria.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

434
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Speaker 2: And at one point a newspaper was like talking shit

435
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Speaker 2: on her. So this other Irish nationalist, Arthur Joseph Griffith,

436
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Speaker 2: who will talk about a little bit more a second

437
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 2: he quote thrashed the journalist with a stick, I believe

438
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: a Shealaly like an Irish walking stick slash club. And

439
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 2: later Arthur's going to go on and start the political

440
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 2: party Shin Fein, which is still a very major part

441
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 2: of Irish politics. And what also is a part of

442
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: major Irish politics is goods and services and consumerism, which

443
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: also has infiltrated this very show starting now and we're

444
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: back so mod gone Easter Sunday nineteen hundred, she meets

445
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: with fourteen of her friends. They're all women, and their

446
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: plan was that they like they got together to like

447
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: make a present. They were going to get an engraved

448
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 2: blackthorn stick of Chaleley to give to Arthur, basically being like, hey,

449
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: thanks for beating the shit out of that dude. Like,

450
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 2: here's another stick for beating the shit out of the

451
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 2: next dude, which is cool. I actually have no notes here.

452
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: But then they talked way more than that, and they

453
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: wound up putting together the seeds of an organization called

454
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 2: the Daughters of Ireland. It was named in Irish and

455
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: some of the things I wrote down in English and

456
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: some of them I wrote down in Irish, and this

457
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 2: one I wrote down in English. So I'm going to

458
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: call it the Daughters of Ireland throughout. And they get

459
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 2: together and they're like, all right, we're gonna have an

460
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 2: all women nationalist groups. Is around the time. They're not

461
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 2: the first Irish nationalist group, but they're you know, the

462
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 2: Gaelic League comes a few years before them, but they're

463
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: ahead of the curve. The fucking Queen is visiting and

464
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: she's trying to get irishmen to go join their war

465
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: in South Africa against the Boers, which are a white

466
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: ethnic minority in South Africa. So the Daughters are like, well,

467
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: we don't want Irish people to go fight in your

468
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 2: fucking war. So they organized a march of children, thirty

469
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 2: thousand children marching against the queen base. And then afterwards,

470
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: isn't that sick based?

471
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 3: Yeah? Thirty thousand kids.

472
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then they had a day in the park

473
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: with a picnic and like anti recruitment speeches and it

474
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 2: went really well, I mean obviously went really well. They

475
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 2: managed to get thirty thousand fucking kids out and so

476
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: they became a permanent organization. They use the funds that

477
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: they raised for this. They were like, you know, fuck it,

478
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 2: we're now Daughters of Ireland. We exist. Also, Queen Victoria

479
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: died the next year. Is it a coincidence? Yes, but yes,

480
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: But I like to think the stress of seeing all

481
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: those kids marching against her, just did he in?

482
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, the stress of the kids. I mean that's

483
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 3: a terrifying sighte yeah, very unsettling, thirty thousand kids marching,

484
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 3: I know, thinking that, would you would carry that, it

485
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 3: would haunt you, Yeah, but not for very long, no,

486
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 3: just about it because you'll die next year. Yeah, yeah,

487
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: And I like to think that they chanted Vickis in

488
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 3: the box the way that.

489
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 2: But anyway, Uh so they get together as the Daughters

490
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 2: of Ireland and their goal is to assert Irish independence.

491
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 2: They want control over the island. They want return to

492
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 2: the Irish language and the decolonization of culture, the de

493
00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: anglicization of their culture. But they're also so kind of

494
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: I can't specifically say, like right wing, but one of

495
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: their things was that they had a particular hatred of

496
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: English low culture, of like cussing and like lewd stuff

497
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: and like body theater and all that, unlike the enlightened

498
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 2: Irish culture that they were all yes, yeah, it's rich bitches, right.

499
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, maybe only mogone. But they

500
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: did a lot of fucking work. They put on plays,

501
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: they taught classes for kids and adults both. They protested

502
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: British army recruitment. They published a newspaper called The Women

503
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: of Ireland, and they were one part among many, of

504
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 2: a growing nationalist movement and people trying to figure out

505
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: whether their right or left wing. They either argue about

506
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 2: it or stay the fuck out of it. The nationalism

507
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 2: of oppressed group is fundamentally a different thing than the

508
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 2: nationalism of an oppressor group, but they're related, and we'll

509
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 2: talk more about that later. I just want to put

510
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: pain in that concept, because if I'm going to be

511
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 2: talking about nationalists, I think it's worth pointing out that

512
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: this is a oppressed minority saving a fucking language. Because

513
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 2: there was the Gaelic League formed in eighteen ninety three

514
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the nineteenth century, So like eighteen hundred,

515
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: forty five percent of Irish people were brought up speaking

516
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 2: Irish at home. By eighteen ninety one, three point five

517
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 2: percent were raised speaking Irish. Wow, so a couple generations

518
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 2: just trashed Irish as a language. The League understandably, it

519
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: was actually way more popular. Not in the Irish speaking

520
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 2: Galtech to the northwestern part of Ireland was more Irish

521
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: speaking right than the rest because it anglicized less and later,

522
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: but the Gaelic Lee was more popular in the eastern part.

523
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: That was like more Irish English speaking because people were like, well,

524
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: we need to get this shit back right. It's compared

525
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: to the people are like, oh, we just never stopped.

526
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

527
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: So the Gaelic League pushed Irish classes. It sent students

528
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 2: to the Gaeltech, the Irish being part of the country,

529
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: to be immersed in their own language. Their first newspaper

530
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: was called The Sword of Light, and it was edited

531
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 2: by Patrick Pierce, who's considered the leader of the Easter

532
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 2: Rising by many standards. We'll talk about him more in

533
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: a minute, and its motto was shin fain, which means

534
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 2: we ourselves. I was reading people who were like, it's

535
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,959
Speaker 2: often translated as like we by ourselves, like us doing it,

536
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: just us, fuck everyone else, And then like other more

537
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: modern translators are like, that's actually kind of a mistranslation

538
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: is more like we ourselves anyway.

539
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 3: Whatever I feel like, that's yeah, that's a distinction us

540
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: together or something.

541
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, no, totally. And it it gets

542
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: into some of the core arguments that people have about

543
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: the Irish nationalism, the degree to which it's xenophobic and

544
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: degree to which it's preserving a culture that's oppressed. By

545
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: nineteen oh five, the political group shin Fain was started

546
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: by the thrasher, the chiley wielding guy Arthur. But by

547
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: nineteen oh four, in just one year, the Gaelic League

548
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: had more than six hundred branches and fifty thousand members. Also,

549
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: in nineteen oh four, Irish was added to the National

550
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: school curriculum, so they like came out the fucking gaate.

551
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: And then it gets real messy when religion gets involved.

552
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: With the smile on Margaret's faith.

553
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: All right, So the Catholic Church takes a lot of

554
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: credit for Irish independence, and it uses the revolution to

555
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: like institute a theocracy later, you know, and sometimes it

556
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: actually fought against the Irish language in the nineteenth century.

557
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: This part caught me completely off guard because overall you

558
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: have this like, oh, Protestantism is the English you know, religion,

559
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: and I mean it's the Church of England. Well, it's

560
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: the Church of Ireland, but it's the same thing, yeah,

561
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: versus the good Catholic Church or whatever. All the true

562
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: Irish peopleh blah blah blah. But in the nineteenth century,

563
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: for a while, during what was called the Bible Wars,

564
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: the Anglican Church, or rather the Church of Ireland, it

565
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: went on this wild recruiting scheme and it translated the

566
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: Bible into Irish and it taught Irish folks to read

567
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: Irish in the process. So the Protestant Church was trying

568
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: to get people to read Irish as a way to

569
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: get people to convert to Protestantism from Catholicism. And so

570
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: the Catholics are like, oh, no, you don't. And so

571
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: they managed to spin that's speaking Irish was the real Anglicization,

572
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: even though that's really the opposite.

573
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: It's the opposite. Oh yeah, this is getting messy, isn't it.

574
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this doesn't stick around for too long. I

575
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: read all of this, I read some papers about this,

576
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: and I was like talking to my friend and I

577
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: was like, what the fuck? And then my friend kind

578
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: of provided a lot of counter arguments of like I'm

579
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: not getting into it here, but there's like these things

580
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: called hedge schools that are more deepy schooling and stuff

581
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: like that, and it did and it was often supported

582
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: by the church, and it often did teach Irish. So

583
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 2: there's a counter examples to this, but it just it's

584
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: just a real interesting the idea of how fucking it

585
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: makes me feel better about like right now where you

586
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: like get on Twitter and people will like, like every

587
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: year a political position will have like changed what people

588
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: think you mean by it?

589
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 3: M you know, yeah I do, and yeah, absolutely, And

590
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 3: it's hard to keep track of where things are and

591
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 3: for people, and I might agree with somebody on this

592
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 3: thing and then be like, wait a minute, what was that?

593
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 3: What did that person say? Now wait a minute, I

594
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 3: support this part of it, but are you saying it

595
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 3: because of that totally?

596
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: Like how like, you know, supporting Palestinian freedom does not

597
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: equate to anti Semitism. There are anti Semites, There are

598
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: anti Semites and Nazis who are trying to use that

599
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: to leverage their own way, and we just have to

600
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: like just stay aware, you know.

601
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, We're We're in a brave well it's

602
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 3: not that brave knew of the world. There is something

603
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 3: I've been thinking about it as you're setting this up,

604
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: just how things don't change, how like, oh, yeah, this

605
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 3: is how it goes, isn't it. It's like you do,

606
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: you try to make your best alliances as you can

607
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: and also changes and anyway, Yeah, no, it's nothing changes.

608
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: It's just so messy. I even got kind of sad

609
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: about it this week. This is like one of my

610
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 2: favorite topics. I actually put this off for a couple

611
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: of years. I knew I wanted to do the Eastern

612
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: Rising because of my family connection and all this shit,

613
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm not ready yet, And I'm

614
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: glad I waited, because, like, I have more practice with

615
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: this messy shit than I used to. Yeah, so now

616
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: we're gonna get to another messy guy.

617
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

618
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: His name is Patrick Pierce, and he is a nationalist,

619
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: playwright and poet. He's one of the Easter Rising leaders.

620
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: He's sort of like the leader. And if you ever

621
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: want to read a fuck ton of speculation, then read academics, journalists, historians,

622
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: and people on Reddit arguing about whether he was gay, autistic,

623
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: a pedophile, and or a fascist.

624
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 3: Oh Okay, the whole gamut.

625
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: I'll give you my money. My money is on that

626
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: he was asexual autistic, and I'm sort of glad he

627
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 2: died before fascism came around, so we never got to

628
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: find out what he would have thought about that.

629
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, people love to throw in gay and pedophile

630
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: in when people are a stranger different to them or

631
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 3: not strange, but you know where they don't quite understand,

632
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: and then they lump it all in everything.

633
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So this one's messy. Okay, First of all, you

634
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: get into this really messy thing where late nineteenth century

635
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: homophile stuff. You know, homosexuality didn't really exist. I mean,

636
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: I know we're talking about the early twentieth century too,

637
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: but like homosexual didn't exist as a concept, and you

638
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: had different previous concepts to it. A lot of them

639
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: were around attraction to boys in addition to men. That

640
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: was absolutely part of that. There was also this kind

641
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: of like cult of the boy in right wing circles

642
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: in like European literature at the time. So Patrick Pierce

643
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 2: wrote a pedophile poem. He wrote a poem about kissing

644
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: a little boy and how it's better than kissing a woman.

645
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 2: Oh it was the style at the time to write that. Yeah,

646
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: but he also fucking ran a school.

647
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

648
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: It's messy, it's messy, it's messiest shit. I still hold

649
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: the autistic thing makes complete sense. I'm trying not to like,

650
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: and the ace thing honestly seems to track.

651
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

652
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: But he also supported labor unions, which is a good thing.

653
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

654
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: And so Patrick Pierce messiest person we'll talk about, I

655
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 2: think this week. He was an Irish nationalist and he

656
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 2: was a language activist. He was raised in the middle

657
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 2: class with a unitarian British father and an Irish mother

658
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: who had the best available name in the world. Margaret.

659
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's a good one.

660
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: His sister had a pretty good name too, or she

661
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: too was named Margaret. He and the Margarets. There's like

662
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: eight hundred Margarets. There's like later there's an all women's

663
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: unit and it talks about like all of the women

664
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: of that who were killed during the following like ten

665
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: year period, and it's like like ten different women and

666
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: four or five of them are all named Margaret. But

667
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: so he and the Margarets and his brother Willie Pierce,

668
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: they together run an Irish language school called Saint Edna's,

669
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: which taught in Irish and existed to help preserve Irish

670
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: language and culture. He and Willie are both going to

671
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: get executed in Easter Rising, and the two Margarets will

672
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: continue to run the school without the boys. And I

673
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: was talking to my friend about this episode and they

674
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: were pointing out how important music and culture mattered in

675
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 2: all of the Irish revolutionary movements, and a lot of

676
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: that work was done by the nationalistscluding Pierce. He wrote

677
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 2: the adaptation of one of my favorite rebel songs of

678
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: all time, Oh Rousha Baja Walia. You've randomly heard this song,

679
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: it's I couldn't tell you, Yeah, no, it's it's in Engrish,

680
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: so I can't really sing it. It goes on after

681
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: his death to become one of the anthems of the revolution.

682
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna talk about that song because I really

683
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 2: fucking like it. Although this is how I first learned

684
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 2: that Patrick Pierce is like real complicated. I was like,

685
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: interviewed by this magazine. Now I'm totally offscript. I was

686
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 2: interviewed by this magazine and they were like, what's your

687
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: favorite neo folk song? And I was like kind of

688
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 2: fucking with him. So I was like, oh, Rousha baja

689
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: walia and which which is not a modern folk song,

690
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 2: It's a traditional militant folk song from the Irish Rising.

691
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 2: And this Irish communist wrote me and was like really

692
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: upset and was like Patrick Pierce is a fucking fascist.

693
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: And I have done a bunch of research and I

694
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 2: disagree with that person's assessment, but I understand where they

695
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 2: came from and don't have a counter. I'm not like,

696
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, oh, he was a leftist. Yeah, but

697
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 2: the song title oh RuSHA baha wa yah means cheers

698
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: welcome home, much like you can welcome home the people

699
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: you care about with stuff, things. Whatever is being advertised

700
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: is what you should bring with you when you next

701
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: meet your loved one at the airport.

702
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: I think that you need to have whatever is about

703
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 3: to be advertised. You'll probably I know you need it.

704
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: She'll leave you if you don't have it. Yeah, grim

705
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: it is. Here's the ads.

706
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 3: And we're back. Hopefully you bought a bunch of stuff.

707
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. If not, rewind yep, don't use the pool fifteen

708
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: second button to skip all the ads, which is why

709
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 2: would you ever what I do? Except when I'm like

710
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: when I'm like working, like like with my hands. Yeah,

711
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 2: I'm like, ah, fuck, I have to listen to the

712
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 2: ads right now, because like you can't take my work

713
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: gloves off or whatever.

714
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll put up with them then.

715
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah whatever, surgeons listening to this, you can't skip the ads.

716
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 2: You're please don't listen to podcast all of them.

717
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's only important thing of our advertisers.

718
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: So this song cheers welcome home, very very rebellious title, right, yeah,

719
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: Like lots of folks songs, its actual origins are like

720
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: pretty much lost. When it was first written about in

721
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: eighteen fifty five, it was deferred to as an ancient

722
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: clan march. Ireland was divided up into clans instead of

723
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: essential government for a very long time. Some folks also

724
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 2: think it was likely a sea shanty, which makes sense,

725
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: like hey, welcome home. You know we're like, fuck, yeah,

726
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 2: you made it. That's how I like to translate the title.

727
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: Yeah I don't speak Irish. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And there's

728
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: also a version that was sung a month after a wedding,

729
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: where in a traditional Irish wedding, the bride would move

730
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 2: into the husband's house a month after the almost a funeral,

731
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 2: but the opposite are kind of the same.

732
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: Oh no, it depends on how you look at it.

733
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly the death of your free life.

734
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

735
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: And then in seventeen forty five it was written to

736
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: be a song for the Jacobite Rebellion, which is some

737
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: complicated Kings of England shit where Ireland supported a Catholic

738
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 2: king who was trying to reclaim the English throne. And

739
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: in this version there's a line that says they'll be

740
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: with him French and Spanish, and it's basically like, hey,

741
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 2: all the Catholic nations are going to come together support

742
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: the king. Fuck these Protestants, you know. Patrick Pierce rewrote

743
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: the song to be about the Irish themselves free in Ireland,

744
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: not waiting on help from an English crown or the

745
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 2: French or Spanish. That line became Gale's Day and neither

746
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: French nor Spanish, and later like people kind of use

747
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: that to be like, oh see, this is this, like

748
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 2: like we don't like any other Tree song. I think

749
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: it's fairly easy to say, like, no, it means we

750
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 2: don't need help from any other country. We can do this,

751
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 2: you know.

752
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 3: Especially in the context of what we're talking about. Right

753
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: at the time period.

754
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: Right, And so this is me arguing with someone who

755
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: sent me an email years ago.

756
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: And if you are that person in listening right now,

757
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 3: consider yourself told.

758
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, although you might also be right because he's a complicated.

759
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: Anyways, like a very light point.

760
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he also included in this song Granio O'Malley,

761
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: the pirate Queen of Ireland. We did a whole two

762
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 2: parter about you should go listen to. She was a

763
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 2: real person. She like divorced husbands and rated ships and

764
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 2: add shit. Yeah, she's cool as hell. He was a

765
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 2: nationalist in the truest sense of the word. He believed

766
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: it was the patriotic duty of true Irish men to

767
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: go off and get made dead in order to free

768
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: the country. He wrote about that kind of shit all

769
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: the fucking time. He also went and made himself dead

770
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: to try and feed the country. So you can't like

771
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: he's not armchairing this shit, you know, Yeah.

772
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 3: He did it, but that's where he stopped.

773
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, and this is where most of the accusations

774
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: against him with fascism come from. Is this writing. I

775
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: read a fairly convincing piece that says his writing is

776
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 2: in line with mainstream European writing at the time, no

777
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: more or less specifically fascist than what people in every

778
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 2: country who were writing in early twentieth century Europe. However,

779
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 2: considering the whole of Europe almost fell into fascism within

780
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 2: two decades of this man's death, it doesn't mean all

781
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 2: that much. We don't know how he would have gone,

782
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: how I feel. He talked a lot about manhood and

783
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 2: war and heroism and the fatherland. He and some other

784
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: of the nationalists men were really into reclaiming masculinity for

785
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 2: Irish men because the English were making them all effeminate

786
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: with their like Girly's founding.

787
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: How many things you say that, I'm like, still, we're

788
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 3: still doing this exactly. I just can't exactly continued. Yeah,

789
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 3: but you also there's like Soviet propaganda that's the same shit.

790
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: You know, the Western decadent man is gay, like you know,

791
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: us good brave, virile communists.

792
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: We're all just so boring. Let's get some new creative

793
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 3: narratives going, just some different conversationists.

794
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 2: Please, Totally. He was a good poet. He wrote really beautiful,

795
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 2: fucked up lines like the old heart of the earth

796
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 2: needed to be warmed with the red wine of the battlefields.

797
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 3: Okay, evocative?

798
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no it is. It's evocative, which gives us a

799
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: good segue to start talking about the other half of

800
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 2: the Easter Rising socialists. The most prominent Irish socialist was

801
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 2: a pretty fucking cool guy, one of the only people

802
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 2: that I got. No, that's not sure. With the whole

803
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: socialist side, I've got almost no coveiats about. They're actually

804
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 2: pretty fucking this one, which is funny because sometimes I'll

805
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 2: talk shit on some socialists and my fucking shows, but not, no,

806
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: not this time. James Connolly. We'll talk more about him

807
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 2: in a little bit, but I want to just he

808
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 2: wrote a quote specifically talking shit on what I just

809
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: read about the red wine of the fucking battlefields. James

810
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 2: Connolly is chiming in from the leftist side of Catholic

811
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: Irish independence, and he said, quote, No, we do not

812
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: think the old heart of the earth needs to be

813
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 2: warmed with the red wine of millions of lives. We

814
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: think anyone who does is a blithering idiot. We are

815
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 2: sick of such teaching, and the world is sick of

816
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 2: such teaching. And these two militarily run the Rising together. Interesting,

817
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: and I think that that's an important way to understand

818
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 2: that there was not a unity of thought.

819
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they're very different figures here, but

820
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 3: they do want ultimately the same goal. Yeah, after you

821
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 3: achieve that goal, what it looks like probably a different reality,

822
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: but you know, they're working together towards something, which is

823
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 3: something we all should keep in mind in our own as.

824
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: Well, totally, you know. And it's like, all this is

825
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: happening before a lot of the like great splinterings of

826
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: revolutionary movements. You know, within a couple of years you're

827
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: going to start seeing like the the Bolsheviks turning on

828
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: the rest of the left in the USSR and killing

829
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: everyone and all that stuff. But that hasn't happened yet. Overall,

830
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: the Irish socialists were less nationalist and more internationalists, and

831
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: you know, like gun to my head, I'd have a

832
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 2: real hard time defining nationalism, you know, because there's a

833
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 2: million fucking ways of understanding it. Exactly when someone says nationalism,

834
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: you have to it's not enough information for you to

835
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: figure out what they're talking about, because.

836
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 3: It can mean so many things, and especially at this

837
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 3: point in time, what's it mean versus now.

838
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: And internationalist isn't all that different. It's a little bit

839
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 2: more precise, but it can be defined a million different ways.

840
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: The best way I can describe it in this context

841
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 2: is that internationalism isn't isn't Everyone is the same and

842
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: there's no cultural distinctions between people, right Because Okay, there's

843
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: this idea that there's like nations which are different than states.

844
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 2: Often they're use interchangeably, but in this particular way of

845
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: understanding things, a nation is more about the people and

846
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: the culture, whereas the state is like the structures, the

847
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 2: organizational and governmental structures.

848
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 3: And so.

849
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: Internationalism is not no nations. It's nations working together. It

850
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: is the It is not melting pot America. It is

851
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,959
Speaker 2: all of these cultures can stay culturally distinct and find

852
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: ways to work together. I like that because I think

853
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: that's coolest shit it is.

854
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 3: It's also a preserving of culture as well. It's not

855
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 3: about not that there's anything wrong with cultures intermingling, but

856
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 3: there is something beautiful about protecting your own heritage and

857
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 3: also not being afraid of someone else's or of another culture.

858
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 2: It's an acceptance, yeah, totally. And in order to explain

859
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: the difference, I want to introduce a final one of

860
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: the nationalists, that is, the people fighting for cultural Irishness

861
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: and against Anglicization as their primary goal rather than like socialism.

862
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: But this nationalist best I can understand, and I'm I'm

863
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: running off of I'll tell you what I'm running off

864
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 2: of my argument as to why this man's an internationalist.

865
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: But he's one of the most interesting motherfuckers in the

866
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: whole Rising. He probably wouldn't like me saying motherfucker because

867
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: he's very Catholic. Joseph Plunkett Joseph Plunkett was our second

868
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 2: rich Catholic who spent his whole life fighting friend of

869
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 2: the pod tuberculosis. In this episode in the way of

870
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: nineteenth century rich Europeans, he spent time in North Africa

871
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: and Algiers and specifically and shit for his health as

872
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 2: a kid to be like in the good coastal Mediterranean

873
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: air or whatever, right I mean, he survived fucking well.

874
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: Esventually the British are going to shoot him, but until

875
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:08,959
Speaker 2: then he survived, so it clearly worked for a while,

876
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, So as a kid, he learns Arabic

877
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 2: and he starts writing poetry in it, and he also

878
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: learns Irish, and then he learned the most internationalist shit

879
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: to ever internationalist esperanto. You were, Oh you ever heard

880
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: of esperanto?

881
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 3: No?

882
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 2: Oh, man. So he formed the Irish Esperanto League, which

883
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: is where a bunch of the Eastern Rebels met one another.

884
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 2: Four of the Easter Rising martyrs spoke this language, esperanto.

885
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 2: Esperanto is an attempt at creating a universal language. It

886
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 2: still exists. You can't this language. There's still i don't know,

887
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 2: a couple million speakers or whatever worldwide. Esperanto was not

888
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: designed to supplant local languages, but instead it was to

889
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: provide internationalism by allow different people to have an auxiliary

890
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: language that they can all speak, instead of like the

891
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 2: way that English is the universal language right now, right,

892
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 2: and like probably at one point, at some point it'll

893
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: be Chinese or something, right, yeah, Mandarin. So instead of

894
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: having it be someone's language that we use as the

895
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 2: international language, this guy who will talk about in a

896
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 2: second was just like, well, we'll just make one and

897
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: it'll be no one's home language, and everyone can have

898
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: their home language, and when they have to talk to

899
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: each other, they can use this one. Instead of allowing

900
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 2: cultural chauvinism to force one language upon everyone because we

901
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: do need a way to communicate in this world.

902
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 3: I love that.

903
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's neat, He's a neat.

904
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 3: It's a great idea.

905
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, I'm I'm not going to learn it. No,

906
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: but it would be about tenth on my list of

907
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: languages to learn. I like really need to finish my Spanish,

908
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: and they kind of want to learn English, and yeah.

909
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 3: Some practical prioritiesier, but in a vacuum, very into it.

910
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, if they had one, you know, And it was

911
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 2: like a thing like so. Esperanto was developed by an

912
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: anti Zionist Jew from Poland in eighteen eighty seven, and

913
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 2: his name was ELLL. Zamenhoff. He is this fucking banger

914
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 2: of a quote about nationalism. And this was like later

915
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: when people were like, hey, will you join this Jewish

916
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 2: Esperantis league and he's like, I'm not into nationalism and

917
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: Zionism and stuff. He actually briefly was into Zionism when

918
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: he was younger, because he was like, man, these pogroms

919
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: that I'm living through fucking suck. They keep killing us

920
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 2: as Jews. We need to do something about that. But

921
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 2: he quickly determined the Zionism was not the thing to

922
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 2: do about it. And this was like a fuck one

923
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty years ago.

924
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 3: Interesting how he could put those pieces together back then,

925
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: and so many of us are struggling with it right now.

926
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, like fifty years before Israels were saying, he like

927
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 2: ran through the thought process and was like, ah, cig.

928
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 3: This doesn't end well, is what he thought.

929
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, here's this quote about nationalism, and it's it's

930
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: how I feel. I don't need other people to feel

931
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 2: how I feel about this. I am profoundly convinced that

932
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: every nationalism offers humanity only the greatest on happiness. It

933
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 2: is true that the nationalism of oppressed peoples as a

934
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 2: natural self defensive reaction is much more excusable than the

935
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: nationalism of peoples who oppress. But if the nationalism of

936
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: the strong is ignoble, the nationalism of the week is imprudent.

937
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 2: Both give birth to and support each other.

938
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: That is so eloquent. I know, that's a perfectly stated

939
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.

940
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 2: He's also the first person to write a Yiddish grammar,

941
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 2: like to like write down, this is how Yiddish go.

942
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 2: That would not be the way to do that if

943
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 2: you were doing it anyway. He died in nineteen seventeen.

944
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: His all three of his fucking kids were murdered by

945
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 2: Nazis in the Holocaust. The second esperantist author after, I believe,

946
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: after him, was an irishman who wrote the English language

947
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: textbook of it and also spoke Irish, So Yiddish and

948
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: Irish were like, hey, let's figure out non colonial like

949
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 2: anti colonial ways to defend our fucking like ways of being,

950
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: and the Irish people would be more likely to have

951
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 2: called it nationalism.

952
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: But you know, yeah, fascinating.

953
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I first heard about Esperanto when I was a

954
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: squadron the Netherlands. And this is totally just a side

955
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: so I can tell this story because just a shout.

956
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 2: I have no idea if this man listens to it,

957
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: to the show. But there was this gay anarchist squatter

958
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 2: lawyer who had moved to the Netherlands from the US

959
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: and gotten his citizenship and shit there because of the

960
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: thriving Esperanto scene in Amsterdam. He was an Esperantist and

961
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: he was like, I gotta go where the Esperantis are,

962
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: and so he moved to Amsterdam and one day we

963
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: were squatting this abandoned gay bar. It was like the

964
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: oldest gay bar in Amsterdam, and we were like the

965
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 2: gay squat scene was trying to like make it a

966
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 2: thing again. And so this man was one of the

967
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: two police liaisons, and I just want to like paint

968
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: this picture where you have this fabulous American queer and

969
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: like an ostentatious fur coat is one of the police liaisons,

970
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: and he's not particularly tall. And then the other one

971
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 2: is this towering dutch man who's like an anti fascist

972
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 2: skinhead who's wearing all black black bomber jacket, tight black

973
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 2: pants and a bright pink mini skirt over his punk pants.

974
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: What and a good cop, bad cop to the cops,

975
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: where like the big dude is like screaming at them,

976
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 2: and then the esperantoses calmly explaining why we weren't breaking

977
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: any laws because we weren't because squatting was legal at

978
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: the time. Incredible anyway, on Esperanto, this is how I

979
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 2: heard about it, and.

980
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 3: It holds a special place in your heart.

981
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: Exactly oh later, I'm gonna draw a weird Okay, I

982
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 2: really like my my red strings conspiracy boards where I

983
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 2: draw all these weird connections through history. So that was plunket,

984
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 2: we went way off. He was the He was the

985
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: tuberculosis afflicted nationalist internationalists who started the Esperantis League. He

986
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,040
Speaker 2: also wrote poetry, including a poem I quite like, but

987
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: I'm going to spare you all a reading of called

988
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: I See his Blood upon the Rose, which is basically

989
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 2: like a god is in everything kind of poem. He

990
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: also he's a rich kid, right, so he turned his

991
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 2: family property into a training center for the Irish Republican Brotherhood.

992
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 2: So like all the people with guns would be like, well,

993
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 2: where are we going to practice and drill? And he's like, well,

994
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: I own.

995
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 3: A fuck ton of land mommy and daddy's house.

996
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, the estate, which is what you should do

997
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: if you're born into wealth.

998
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 3: Absolutely, let's go, lads, Yeah exactly.

999
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: So that's the nationalists. When we come back on Wednesday,

1000
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about the socialists. You will be shocked

1001
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 2: to know. I feel more unqualifiedly positive about socialists, and

1002
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 2: I think none of them are going to fuck next

1003
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 2: to sarcopha guy. But you know what maybe they do,

1004
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 2: and that's just not included in what I learned.

1005
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 3: That It's it's so I'm sure someone will let you know,

1006
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 3: someone will get very angry that you've left it out

1007
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 3: and let you know that you are indeed a fascist

1008
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 3: for overlooking it.

1009
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 2: Pretty much. Margaret did a section on nationalists. Yeah, uh,

1010
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 2: but that's part one of our four parter about the

1011
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 2: Easter Rising. It's gonna be two parts of context, two

1012
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 2: parts of action. But don't worry, there's lots of good

1013
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 2: action in all the context. The context is full of

1014
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 2: action and very exciting. This is great fucking on the grave,

1015
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: but fucking on a grave, which is a terrible way

1016
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 2: to segue to you and the stuff that you should

1017
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 2: talk about, right.

1018
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 3: Sure, plug, Well, I've got some shows you can check out.

1019
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: Uh.

1020
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 3: We have our YouTube channel which is called some More News.

1021
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 3: Maybe you're like, hey, I know that channel, but that's

1022
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 3: a boy on that channel. As frequently when I tell

1023
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 3: people where I work, they're like, that's not a girl,

1024
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 3: that's Tody Johnson. Yeah. No, I've been there the whole time.

1025
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 3: You Fox and started that show together hosts it. I

1026
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 3: feel that in my core.

1027
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1028
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 3: And we also have a podcast called even more News,

1029
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 3: and we take the audio from the YouTube channel. If

1030
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 3: you don't like watching YouTube channels, you can listen to

1031
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 3: the audio of it. Also in the podcast feed to

1032
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 3: just look up some more news, and that's where you'll

1033
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 3: find me. Technically, I'm on Twitter, but I don't use

1034
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 3: it very often.

1035
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: Katie posts really cute picks of her perfect dog Benny

1036
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: on Instagram.

1037
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 3: I do, I do tell me on Instagram. I recently

1038
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 3: I will be re emerging out of Twitter. It is

1039
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 3: the platform that I have the most, you know, not

1040
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: that it matters, but that's where if you want to

1041
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 3: share your work, the most people follow you. But it's

1042
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 3: become so hard for me emotionally and physically to use

1043
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 3: the space. So but on Instagram, I try to just

1044
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 3: post pictures of the mountains and animals and wholesome things.

1045
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 3: But even that's hard to maintain these days anyway. But

1046
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 3: that's a whole other conversation for another time. Those are

1047
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 3: the places you can follow me.

1048
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, and I appreciate it because I as I

1049
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 2: do watch you too, But I watch YouTube at twice speed, yeah,

1050
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 2: because if I'm watching, it's harder for my add to

1051
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 2: make it work, whereas listening is fine because I'm out

1052
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 2: walking or doing something else.

1053
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 3: Exactly multitask, So you got options if you want to

1054
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 3: listen to some more news.

1055
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you want to listen to me. I

1056
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 2: have a podcast called cool People The Cool Stuff. You

1057
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 2: can find every Monday and Wednesday and it comes from

1058
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media, which Sophie runs. Hi Sophie, Hi, I

1059
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 2: think plug. Just keep it looked out.

1060
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: And if you're if you subscribe to the goal Zone

1061
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,879
Speaker 1: Media channel on any of the ops people, look out

1062
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: for a couple of new shows launching very very soon.

1063
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 2: I'm so excited about it. I I really like this.

1064
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 2: I like cool Zone Media. I'm proud to be part

1065
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 2: of it. It's very cool shows.

1066
00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 1: Listen, not gonna lie pretty much a big fan of

1067
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. In my very unbiased opinion, totally Cool

1068
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: People Who Did Cool Stuff on cool Zone Media is

1069
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: a great show.

1070
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 2: Hell wait, is that a swing? Check it out? It

1071
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 2: is this one. All you gotta do is check in

1072
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 2: again on Wednesday. What a clever bit. People are gonna

1073
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 2: be like, man, Wow, those ladies are so clever, so clever.

1074
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: We'll see you then, Bye bye bye. Cool People Who

1075
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1076
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1077
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1078
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.