1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: the Thing from My Heart Radio. My guest today wears many, many, 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: many hats. He's a radio host, columnist, author, playwright, college lecturer, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: and has even written incidental monologues for a symphony. He's 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: also one of my favorite broadcasters on public radio, the 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: host of the Colin McEnroe Show on Connecticut Public Radio. 7 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: It's the man himself, Colin McEnroe. On his show, McEnroe 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: unpacks the week's events in news and pop culture, in 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: addition to covering some truly eccentric topics like Neanderthal's zippers, tambourines, 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 1: and punk rock. McEnroe's writing has appeared in The New 11 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: York Times, Men's Health, McSweeney's, and even Cosmopolitan. As a 12 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: columnist and hometown hero of Hartford, his work has appeared 13 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: in low cool papers like the Hartford Current, Stanford Advocate, 14 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: the New Haven Register, and the Connecticut Post. Of all 15 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: the paths Commin McEnroe could have taken, I wondered how 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: he found his way to public radio. Radio was never 17 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,639 Speaker 1: the plan. The plan was to be a writer, and 18 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: what happened actually was in I was a newspaper columnist. 19 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: And that was right around the time that Limbaugh and 20 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: Hannity and all those people, they had taken over what 21 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: was the vast wasteland of AM radio and turned it 22 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: into a different kind of wasteland with the kind of 23 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: show that they were doing. But they took the A 24 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: M Ban, which was almost useless at that point, and they, 25 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: you know, they revived it. And I was interested in that, 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: and I was offered an opportunity as a newspaper columnist 27 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: to guest host on two different radio stations, and to 28 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: my dismay, they both offered me jobs on the spot. 29 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: When I got off the air, I mean, I thought 30 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: this was like a horrible industry full of bullies and morons. 31 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: So it was disappointing to discover that I was a 32 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: natural at it. You fit right in, Yeah, But the 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: truth of the matter is that that's another thing that 34 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: struck me as all your credentials. You know, you went 35 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: to Yale, you went there on a scholarship, and then 36 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: you wind up teaching in the political science department. Now, 37 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: I studied policy at George Washington University for three years 38 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: before then took off and uh went to n YU 39 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: to study acting. But what specifically do you teach at 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: the Policide Department there. I teach a seminar in the 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: spring term that's about political media. I mean, it's called 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: Century Political Journalism. I feel like more and more it's 43 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: about political media because there's such a blurring of all that. 44 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: I will say this also, I'm relatively confident at this 45 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: point about being, you know, a pretty okay radio host. 46 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: I have terrible imposter syndrome when I'm teaching in the 47 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: Policide Department of Yale and when the seminars over every week, 48 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: I step out under Prospect Street and I think I 49 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: am a freaking fraud. These kids should get their tuitions 50 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: pro rated and get there. And why do you feel 51 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: that way? Why? I really don't know the answer to that, 52 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: except that it's, you know, it's a little bit out 53 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: of my comfort zone. I wasn't a policy major at Yale. 54 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: I just think there's something about the classroom. I mean, 55 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: they're looking right at you. I mean I went into radio, 56 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: so nobody would ever see me, so that could be 57 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: part of the problem. But I also think that I've 58 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: taught acting intermittently. You know, I did a full semester 59 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: in at n y U with a teaching partner, Daniel Specter, 60 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: who was a fully accredited faculty there. I taught an 61 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: acting class with a friend of mine in the summertime 62 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: at the old l i U Southampton campus before Stoneybrook 63 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: took it over, and my friend Michael Disher, who taught 64 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: full time at the faculty there, he and I taught 65 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: a class and I must say I didn't care for 66 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: it because I don't think I have that skill to impart. 67 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: I mean I kind of look at them at the 68 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: end and I'm like, well, either you've got it or 69 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: you don't. You know, And I can make you a 70 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: better actor than you were when you walked in, but 71 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: I can't make you a good one. So the teaching 72 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: thing for me, I felt uncomfortable teaching acting per se. 73 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: Is there something you think you can teach? Oh? No, 74 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: I think I can teach this, and I do. I mean, 75 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite things in the world to do. 76 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: I get a tremendous amount of gratification from it, and 77 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: my students come out of this almost invariably saying I 78 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: didn't really think about journalism that way before. I didn't 79 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: think about media that way before. What I say to 80 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: them at the beginning of the semester is I will 81 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: have succeeded if for the rest of your life rather 82 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: than simply consuming journalism political journalism, you think about all 83 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: of the questions that we brought up here. That's a 84 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: win for me and I'm I'm thrilled during the semester 85 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: when they do that too. It's very, very exciting. So 86 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: what's your journalistic diet meaning when you wake up in 87 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: the morning, where what do you are you? David Remnick 88 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: said he just reached the Times cover to cover, That's 89 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: where he begins. But about you, Um, it's a pretty 90 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: diverse one. And of course part of the problem with 91 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: our show, our show, we do typically four new episodes 92 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: of our show a week, and so we're kind of 93 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: hungry for ideas all the time. So yeah, I mean, 94 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,799 Speaker 1: I do all the conventional stuff. I read the Times, 95 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: I read the Washington Post, I read a lot of 96 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: odd little publications on the internet. I read a lot 97 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: of newsletters these days. For example, the one that I 98 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: like right now is by a guy named Mark Slutsky, 99 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: and I think he's like an independent filmmaker based in 100 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: Montreal and it's called his newsletter is called Something Good, 101 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: and it's just anything he thinks of, and he clearly 102 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: thinks a little bit the way I do. I think 103 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: I want to do something with Mark Slutsky. I want 104 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,559 Speaker 1: to have them on my show. I want to do something. 105 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: And so I don't know much about him, but I'm 106 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: fascinated with the way his mind works. But there's one 107 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: by a young guy, this one called Tangle, by young 108 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: guy named Isaac Saul, and he is doing, I think, 109 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: maybe the best job I've seen of anybody, trying to 110 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: really look at both sides of issues, of issues. The 111 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: newsletter is nearly daily, and he takes an issue nique. 112 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: Here's what the right is saying about it, Here's what 113 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: the left is saying about it. Here's what I think 114 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: about it. And it's a very useful crucible, I think, 115 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: for for looking at something that way. When I do 116 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: the show that I've done for a while, there's a 117 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: part of me I didn't really think very much about 118 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: it in terms of why I did it. I said, 119 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: to these are people that I'm fans of. I admire 120 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: their work. I've always wanted to meet them and talk 121 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: about their origin story and the path of their career, 122 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: people who I am interested in what they have to say, topically, 123 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: writers and so forth. I rarely sit there and say, 124 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: who's this show for? I mean, I kind of have 125 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: an idea about that. But when you're talking about politics, 126 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: for example, when you're talking about Isaac sol and Mark 127 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: Slutsky and people like that you follow, who do you 128 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: think shows that you craft in that way are aimed at? 129 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: Who do you think is listening to your show? In 130 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: some ways, I have no idea, But we also we 131 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: try not to think about that too much. I mean, 132 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: the show really is the product of a group of people, 133 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: just me, and our whole philosophy is we're going to 134 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: do something that really interests us, and we're gonna try 135 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: to do it in a creative enough way so that 136 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: you'll enjoy it if you're open to that kind of thing. Now, 137 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: sometimes out of sheer perversity, we will deliberately pick a 138 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: really bad idea just to see if we can do it. 139 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: Could we possibly do for example, well, I did a 140 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: whole show about yodeling. Uh, And you know, yodeling more 141 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: than five minutes of yodeling is kind of intrinsically annoying 142 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: at a certain point. I mean, and I got a 143 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: yodeling lesson for you to let that stop. If you 144 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: did not stop, you know, my thought is, if I 145 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: can make you stay with me, stay with me all 146 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: the way through this, this is gonna make you love 147 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: ye And I sort of think that was a bad 148 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: show in some ways, but it was also a really 149 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: good show. I mean, people would back away from me 150 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: if I when I said I want to do an 151 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: entire episode about yodeling, they would make excuses to leave 152 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: the room. We even have a thing with a kind 153 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: of an internal term within our show called the Bad 154 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: Ideas Department, where we will work really hard on an 155 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: idea we know is bad, just to see if we 156 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: could possibly do it. Now. This also leads to some 157 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: epic failures. I mean, people in the business will bring 158 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: up shows we did ten years ago that were such disasters. 159 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: But you can't be afraid of that, you know. I mean, 160 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: I know you interviewed Ira Glass, and he and I 161 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: spoke about this, and we were both kind of saying, 162 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: you know, you can't break public radio. You can do 163 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: a bad episode. It's only we have a patient on 164 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,679 Speaker 1: the table. We're gonna lose. The worst thing you're gonna 165 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: do is do an episode that's not great, And in 166 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: my case, I gotta do another show tomorrow anyway. So 167 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: the mothership for you is the Colin McEnroe Show itself, 168 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: which is on twice a day. Yes, it's on at 169 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: one and at nine. Yeah, And what other shows are 170 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: you doing there? One of the duties do you have? Their? 171 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: At public radio in Connecticut. I'm in and out as 172 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: a political analyst. I have sort of a background in 173 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: doing that kind of stuff. We on occasion. First of all, 174 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: I don't I do for shows a week. I feel 175 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: like I don't need any more jobs. But one thing 176 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: we did is at the beginning of the first Trump impeachment, 177 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: as it was clearly coming, first of all, we thought, well, 178 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna get preempted, so what should we do? And 179 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: we decided that we would invent a new podcast that 180 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: would be sort of a stealth brand podcast, and we 181 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: called it Pardon Me, Another damn Impeachment Show. And we 182 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: decided to do it as usual as differently from everybody 183 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: else as we could. So we we made it sort 184 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: of more cross disciplinary. I mean, we would have legal 185 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: experts on, but we would also maybe have Dave Eggers, 186 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: who's a novelist on, or we'd have a musician on 187 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: who's writing protest music, or just attack it from as 188 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: many different angles as we could. And so two things happened. 189 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: One of them was that, if you recall, Pelosi held 190 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: the impeachment articles for an unusually long time, so we 191 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: didn't get preempted, which means we were working around the 192 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: clock on this new podcast and having to do our 193 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: daily show, and there are people involved in that who 194 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: never recovered, I think. And then the other thing happened 195 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: was there was another damn impeachment, so we had to 196 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: revive the brand all over again. So a lot of 197 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: projects like that within I'll just tell you one other 198 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: thing that we did. We invented a format called radio 199 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: for the deaf, which I know sounds almost like a joke, 200 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: but it's not. We realized that deaf people obviously have 201 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: no experience of radio. I was talking to this deaf 202 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: woman who works at a school near here, and she said, 203 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: you know, I know you as a writer, but I 204 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: don't know you as a radio post. I don't know 205 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: what that is really, And so we figured out how 206 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: to do a show that was simultaneously transmitted using video streaming, 207 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: was simultaneously translated using to as L interpreters. And it 208 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: was really, really hard. It took a little a lot 209 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: of work. But we're trying to see if we could 210 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: create a radio product that deaf people could use, which 211 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: is once again kind of an insane thing to dry 212 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: and and it was. We did it. We ran out 213 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: of money eventually, but we we did do that. So yeah, 214 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: I think maybe my other job at the company's to 215 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: come up with improbable projects and trying to make them work. 216 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: The public radio I was there with my show at 217 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: NYC for a while. For you, why public radio and 218 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: not something more commercial, Well, I mean one answer is 219 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: I got fired from commercial radio. So I have to 220 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: back up and say so, remember I was telling you 221 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: my origin story and how I did this kind of 222 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: guest hosting thing, and I wound up at a pretty 223 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: big CBS owned radio station here in Connecticut, where you know, 224 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: the Limba style was the dominant style and content of programming. 225 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: I was sort of the house liberal there and so, 226 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: I mean the audience was overwhelming Allen Combs. I was 227 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: the Alan Colmes. I guess, yeah, I mean there are 228 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: a couple of other analogies, but you know, the audience 229 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: was there for that, and almost everybody on the air, 230 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: with a couple of other exceptions, was either Rush Limbaugh 231 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: or somebody trying to be Rush Limbaugh. And then there 232 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: was me. And so I worked there for sixty and 233 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: years and the audience just hated me so much. I mean, 234 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: I had a Connecticut audience. Connecticut. Yeah, but if the 235 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: Connecticut still has conservatives and that's who this the programming 236 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: on the station. I mean I had a lot of 237 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: people who liked the show, obviously, but just it was 238 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: I always felt like the sort of damocles was hanging 239 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: over me. One of these days, they're just gonna fire 240 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: me because the show is too wrong for the the 241 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: overall vibe of the station. And I'll just quickly tell you, 242 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: in commercial radio, as you perhaps know from your your 243 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: previous Explorer, from your other experiences, so ratings are really important. 244 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: Arbitron is the big ratings company, and they don't like 245 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: us to ever talk to anybody from Arbitron because they're 246 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: worried about the appearance of tampering. So one day I'm 247 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: standing there in the studios and there's this guy walking 248 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: towards me. He's pulling a suitcase, and my boss is 249 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: kind of hopping up and down behind him, saying he's 250 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: from Arbitron and he wants to meet you. And he 251 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: came to me. This is when they were I was, yeah, 252 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: it's kind of a little nerve wracking. And he was 253 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: kind of an ominous looking guy too. This is back 254 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: when Arbitron was really relying heavily on written diaries. And 255 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: he said, you know, I travel all over the country 256 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: and I read all these diaries, and he said, I've 257 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: never seen anything like you. People hate you, and they 258 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: listen for like minutes hating you. Said, usually if people 259 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: hate the host, they just turned the show off. People 260 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: don't do that with you, because in commercial radio, you 261 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: win the game if you keep somebody more than fifteen minutes. Uh. 262 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: And I was regularly doing that with people who just were, 263 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: you know, on the verge of vomiting over everything that 264 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: I sat, which that was one of the most thrilling 265 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: days of my life out because I thought, well, that's great, 266 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: because you know, we're so siloed in this country, you know, 267 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: I mean, we tend to listen, to read and consume 268 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: media and content that kind of reinforces our brandforce. Yeah, 269 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: and so that I could actually get people who think 270 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: very very different from me to listen for protracted periods. 271 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: It really felt like a real win. So I liked 272 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: commercial radio for that reason. I mean, if there were many, 273 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: many days where the primary job of the operations manager 274 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: was to take phone calls from people who wanted me fired, 275 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: but it was still exciting and fun and really kind 276 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: of different. You know. When I went over to public radio, 277 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: it was a big adjustment. Everything was so much more 278 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: civilized and I wasn't used to it. And that was 279 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: when what year it was, I started in two thousand nine. 280 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: And who brokered that arrangement? How did that come to pass? 281 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: It was mainly a guy named John Dankowski, who was 282 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: also a host at the time but also kind of 283 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: the leader of the newsroom. He'd been listening to me 284 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: on this other station for a really long time. But 285 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: I will say that at one point I was in 286 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: a little meeting with the big bosses and one man, 287 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: very very nice man. He had this huge binder and 288 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: he said, these are the public radio standards and practices. 289 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: This is the handbook for public radio. So I'd like 290 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: you to spend some time reading that, and he kind 291 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: of pushed it across the table to me, and in 292 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: the nicest way that I could, I pushed it back 293 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: to him and I said, I'm not looking at that. 294 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to know what the standards and practices are. 295 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: If I did read it, it would be for the 296 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: purpose of violating those standards at every opportunity. And they've 297 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: been very patient also with that aspect of me. Colin McEnroe. 298 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: If you enjoy conversations with talented broadcasters from public radio, 299 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: check out my interview with w n y C S 300 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: Brian Larr of The Brian Larr Show. The other thing 301 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: about live radio as opposed to podcasts, people are constantly 302 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: coming and going, so you have to reset right. This 303 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: conversation has to make sense if you tune in at 304 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: ten o'clock or if you tune in at ten oh eight. 305 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: We have to constantly be thinking, okay, if this person 306 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: tuned in to this half hour segment seventeen minutes through. 307 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: We wanted to be able to make sense for them, 308 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: but at the same time be able to progress for 309 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: the people who have been there since the beginning. It's 310 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: just sort of a whole other layer of presentational awareness 311 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: that you don't have on television and they don't have 312 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: on podcasts. Here the rest of my conversation with Brian 313 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: Larr in our archives that Here's the Thing dot Org. 314 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: After the break. Colin McEnroe on terrestrial radio's potential extinction. 315 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 316 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: Host Colin McEnroe has been a compelling an uninhibited presence 317 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: on the radio since I was curious if the pressure 318 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: and restrictions of the public airwaves ever constrained his instincts 319 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: on the air. First of all, I totally grant the 320 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: premise of your question, and I certainly see that around me. 321 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: But the direct answer to your question is no. I mean, 322 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: my whole goal really has been to create a situation 323 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: where I can do what I want to do and 324 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: people buy and largely of me alone, and that's the 325 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: management where I work has been great about that. I mean, 326 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: probably just it's such a pain and they asked to 327 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: have a conversation with me that they're just they'd rather 328 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: not do it. But also they've just they've been very 329 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: generous about that and they know that whatever it is 330 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: that I'm doing. It's reasonably successful. They don't try to 331 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: tamper with it. And no, we don't really get that 332 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: thing about. You better not talk about, you know, car 333 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: automobile safety because we've got some underwriters at Buick or 334 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: something that well, that just doesn't happen without You're untouched 335 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: by that. I'm totally untouched by it. Do you have 336 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: any fear about the long term prospects for public media 337 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: public television and public radio. I mean, as we are 338 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: going to have, I think people's charitable donations. I wonder 339 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: I go to philanthropy conferences every now and then because 340 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: I work with the New York Philharmonic, and they talk about, 341 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: you know, they have people speak about not just how 342 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: to raise money, but how to spend it. They talked 343 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: about the long term arc of public giving decreasing for 344 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: public media as it become is a lower priority on 345 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: their giving list. Do you fear that in public radio? 346 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: I think we have to keep changing and evolving. And 347 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: one of the things that's I mean, public radio is 348 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: a battleship. It's hard to turn a battleship. You don't 349 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: do it in twenty four hours. So one thing that 350 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: I say all the time is every day it becomes 351 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: a little less important that we have transmitters like it is. 352 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: It's great to have transmitters, So Alec Baldwin listens to 353 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: my show. But it's increasingly the case that we'll be 354 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: moving to digital that we are. My show is now. 355 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say more popular and more 356 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: listened to as a podcast than it is in it's 357 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: it's broadcast time slots, and that's one thing the public 358 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: broadcasting is going to have to understand. Then. I never 359 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: go to the conferences, but the one conference I went to, 360 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: I was pleased that there was an entire workshop on 361 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: the automobile dashboard, because you know, you get lazy in 362 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: radio and you think, okay, everybody's got a radio in 363 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 1: their car and they're driving down the road at one 364 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: o'clock and they're in it's not on the Colin mcinroe show. 365 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: But increasingly, of course, their dashboard is far more complex 366 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: than that, and it often has smart speaker features where 367 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: they can say, well, I know, put on here's the thing. 368 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to listen to Colin mcinron. So we've 369 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: got cert of things uff to that. I know. It's 370 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: your voice that comes on and says that, which I'm 371 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm very I'm gonna talk to Subaru about that. I 372 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: want that change. But but you know, we've got to really, 373 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 1: we've got to rethink all of those paradigms all the time. 374 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: You cannot continue to do the same thing you've been 375 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: doing and expect that to work. And in terms of 376 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: the fundraising part, I don't know. I think that's on us. 377 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: If we do the right kind of programming, it's pretty 378 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: easy to go to a funder and say, look at this, 379 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: look at what they're doing, would you like to underwrite? Now, 380 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: I don't need massive amounts of money to do my show, 381 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: so I can't speak for you know what it's like 382 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: for you know, here and now or something like that. Now, 383 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: writing was the plan, as you mentioned, and you've written 384 00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: for quite a deck of publications, The Times, Men's Health, Cosmopollen. 385 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 1: What did you write about for Cosmopolitan? You know, I'm 386 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: going to answer this question, but with great reluctance, I'll 387 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: just quickly say that I was. I had a little 388 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: downtown office from my freelance writing career. This must have 389 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: been back sometime in the nineties, and the phone rings 390 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: one day, and this woman says, Hi, I'm Katherine Rano 391 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: from Cosmopolitan and Helen Gurley Brown is retiring and we're 392 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: about to kind of transform the magazine and we've been 393 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 1: reading your work and other magazines. We really like it. 394 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: We think you're a great fit for our new look 395 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: and our new style, and we'd like you just to 396 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: get going with us right away. And I said, okay, 397 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: which is what I say that pretty much everything. And 398 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: they said, we have an idea we think you'd be 399 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: perfect for. And I said, okay, well what is it? 400 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: And she said it's what is it? Like? A thousand 401 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: word essay? What do you men feel about women touching themselves? 402 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: And to my credit, I screamed into the phone and 403 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: then I said, you don't even know me. Why am 404 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: I perfect for this? How did you deciding? I said, 405 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: I'll do it, but I mean, why am I perfect 406 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: for this? And so I really I wrote a whole 407 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: series of pieces for Cosmopolitan where I was terrified that 408 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: my mother would pick up the magazine, you know, at 409 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: the hair salon, and start reading some you know something 410 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: that by the way, she's not anymore, no, but I 411 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: was going to send her a copy, but it's no, no, no. 412 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: I had so many other ways of disappointing my mother 413 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: that I didn't need Cosmopolitans help. So is there a 414 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: phase where it's writing and only writing? Are you going 415 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: back and forth between radio and writing? Well, since I 416 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: once I started in radio in ninety two, I mean, 417 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: I've never stopped doing radio except for the nine months 418 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: after I got fired. So it's good to have something 419 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: to fall back on at times like that, but I'll 420 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: probably never entirely stop writing. Let me just say this, 421 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: this goes back to pretty much your first question. There's 422 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: something about radio, something about the intimacy of it and 423 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: something about the immediacy of it. I mean, alec I 424 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: bet if I asked you, you could tell me the 425 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: names of two or three disc jockeys you listen to 426 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: in fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade when you were trying 427 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: to listen to Top forty radio. You know that, you 428 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: know they're fake names. You know it's not really Sandy 429 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: Beach or whatever the person's name was. You know, I mean, 430 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: because those were voices that were really important to you 431 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: at the very beginning. In some ways, they might be 432 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: like the first grown ups who were talking to you 433 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: and specifically to you. They weren't talking your parents didn't 434 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: care about Herman's hermits, so they were talking just to 435 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: you and and and they were kind of famous, and 436 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: it was kind of exciting, right to listen to them. 437 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: And and that's the relationship that people have with radio. 438 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: It's a friend, it's somebody they feel like they kind 439 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: of know. And you can do that in radio so 440 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: much more powerfully than I love writing. But you can't 441 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: do it the same way in writing well, to take 442 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: people into a dimension, that's the only way I can 443 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: think about it. I've gone back to segregating time in 444 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: the day now that my kids are in school and 445 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: the summer is, you know, is behind us, and I'm 446 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: and I'm getting back to where I'm reading more devotedly. 447 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: And some of what I'm reading is dry, but I 448 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: soldier on because I want to get to the parts 449 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: of it that I'm reading. I think it's Gean Herbert 450 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: Smith is the writer, his biography of Eisenhower. To have 451 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: a writer engage you and draw you into that dimension 452 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: where all of a sudden, you stop counting pages, you 453 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: stop thinking about time, and you're really into the reading 454 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: and it's you're really engage that requires a talent I 455 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: don't have. I've written three books. But for me, if 456 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: you have any success in radio, the human voice is 457 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: a very much quicker way to get in. You know, 458 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: people will let you in quicker if they develop some 459 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: relationship with you in your voice. You and I are 460 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: very different, but but I get the sense for you 461 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: that you genuinely are interested. For the most part of 462 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: the guests that come on to people who I'm dying 463 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: to have them on the show is really couldn't wait 464 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: to sit down and talk to them. Do you feel 465 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: that way as well? I do. I mean, I'm I'm 466 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: the enthusiasm is still there. Yeah, I'm pretty excited most days. 467 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: One of the ways that you and I are different 468 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: is you're very good at interviewing people that you admire 469 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: and people who are pretty famous, and I tend to 470 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: be interviewing people more. I don't think I'm very good 471 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: at that. In fact, I think I'm actively bad at 472 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: interviewing people I admire, and I almost now try to 473 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: avoid it because I know how bad I am at it. 474 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: And so for me, what drives it more is this, 475 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: we pick a subject, you know, we pick an idea 476 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,479 Speaker 1: and then we try to put the voices in with it. 477 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: Just you know, we did a show about Acam's Razor, 478 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: you know, which is the concept that begins in the 479 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: Middle Ages. But for the most part, for me, it 480 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: starts with the idea, you know, when I'm interviewing somebody 481 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: really famously, somebody I admire, I'm you know, I don't 482 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: have the kind of detachment it takes to make that 483 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: a good interview. Colin McEnroe. If you're enjoying this conversation, 484 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: be sure to subscribe to Hear Is the Thing on 485 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you 486 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. When we come back, Colin McEnroe tells 487 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: us how he inherited the playwriting gene despite his father's 488 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: intentions to steer him anywhere else. I'm Alec Baldwin and 489 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: this is Here's the Thing from my Heart Radio. Colin 490 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: McEnroe is the author of three books, including a memoir 491 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: and a collection of his hilarious columns. His writing also 492 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: found its way to the stage. He co wrote the 493 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: play A Woman of a Certain Age with Steve Metcalf 494 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: and Larry Bloom. I'd sort of avoided playwriting my father 495 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: was a playwright, and he had two shows on Broadway, 496 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: and then he had a lot of trouble getting produced. 497 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: And his goal in life was to make or I 498 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: did almost anything other than that. He wanted me to 499 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: stay out of the theater in every possible way. So 500 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: I hadn't really done too much like that. And these 501 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 1: two other gentlemen who I knew pretty well, were at 502 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: a point where they realized that they had songs, but 503 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: neither one of them was really able to write the 504 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: so called book of the musical, and so they brought 505 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: me in with There was not a lot of time 506 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: to do this. We thought we would be working on 507 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: this for two or three years. We we wanted a 508 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: place to kind of workshop it. And there's a beautiful 509 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: theater in connected called the Ivoryton Playhouse, And if you 510 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: go there and you look at the walls, it just 511 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: turns out everybody you know has appeared there at some point, 512 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: I mean like Groucho Marx performed there. So we said, look, 513 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 1: can we just come in during a flat time in 514 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: your schedule and just, you know, scripts in hand workshop 515 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: this show. And they their board men and they said, no, 516 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: we want you to actually put the play on with 517 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: real actors and costumes and sets, and we're going to 518 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: give you a budget and here's some money. And we 519 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: really weren't ready to do this at all. So yeah, 520 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: that was sort of the story of that, and it 521 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: was it took maybe I'd save four years off my life. 522 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: I was approached a couple of years ago to write 523 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: some material for a symphony orchestra that was going to 524 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 1: do lists Faust, which is a very very difficult symphonic piece, 525 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: and it's too long and there are a lot of 526 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: problems with it. So they said, what if you could 527 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: write the kind of interstitial dramatic interludes, And so the 528 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: orchestra would stop playing, and some actors would come on 529 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: and they would you know, they'll perform your material and 530 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: then the orchestra will come back. And I was working 531 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: with a very good conductor and very good director, and 532 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: I was writing the stuff and I just thought, this 533 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: is crap. I am terrible, And I was actively discouraging 534 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: friends from college from coming to this. You know, people 535 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: have known me for forty years. And and then the 536 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: actor showed up and they hired really good actors from 537 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: New York and we had a table read and I 538 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: got up from the table read. At one point I 539 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: kind of excused myself and went into the hall and 540 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: I called my partner, my significant other, and I said 541 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: to her, it turns out I am Tennessee Williams. I am. 542 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: I am a genius at least Oscar levant you're Oscar. Yeah, 543 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: but that's only so I can get on the Jack Parka. 544 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: That's not nutty enough. You got fun. But I mean, 545 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 1: when really good actors read your stuff and then they 546 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: also ask you questions, I'm sure you do this all 547 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: the time. Why is God saying this line here? Why 548 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: is it? Why did you word it that way? What? 549 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: It's inevitably as the writer, it's stuff you never thought about. 550 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: But it's a really good question that you have, and 551 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: that's so stimulating and exciting that, Yeah, if I had 552 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: more time, I'd probably do more of that kind of thing. 553 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: I find oddly that over the years, there's strategy and tactics. 554 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: There's what you want to do and how you go 555 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: about doing it. What do you want your screenplay to 556 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: be about? What story do you want to tell? And 557 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: how effectively do you tell it? I mean, there there 558 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: are people who have like really stupid ideas like The Hangover, 559 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: but they execute it brilliantly. They get every drop of 560 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: juice out of the rind that they can. Then there's 561 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: people who have fabulous ideas and the execution is poor. 562 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: But I found very often when I was working in 563 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: the movie business, and especially I'd say that the writing 564 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: is good and the ideas in this scene, the ideas 565 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: are just in the wrong order. Now talk about your dad. 566 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: Your dad was a playwright. He was a playwright. He 567 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: had kind of a big hit. It was called The 568 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: Silver Whistle that started jose Fire. It actually got turned 569 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: into through a very painful process. I think it got 570 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: turned into one of the Mr Belvidere movies. It's Mr 571 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: Belvitere rings the Bell with Clifton. But so that was 572 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: his big hit. And then he did a show called 573 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: Donnie Brook, which was a musical. It was a musical 574 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: adaptation of The Quiet the movie The Quiet man Um 575 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: and it was less successful. He wrote the book for that. 576 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: Johnny Burke wrote the music. I will say that over 577 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: the years, I've become friends with Frank Rich. Frank is 578 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: one of the few people I know who actually saw 579 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: Donnie Brook, not as the New York Times film creator 580 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: because he was way too young for that. But Frank, 581 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: when Frank was young, he just yeah, he went and 582 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: saw everything. So yeah, he he saw Donny broke and 583 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: then after that he really struggled a lot, you know, 584 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: And there were you when the struggles began. I was 585 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: still in elementary school, I think, you know, and yeah, 586 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: I saw writing is this thing that was really really 587 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: hard to do, and where you were. I mean, one 588 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: thing about the theater, as you know, is, you know, 589 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: it's not like writing a novel. There are a lot 590 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: of people involved, and some of those people are going 591 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: to make you better. It's what like what I said 592 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,959 Speaker 1: about writing the faust stuff. You know, two actors show up, 593 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: they start reading your lines, and you think you're a 594 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: genius because they're making you better. But also in theater 595 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: there's just a lot of stakeholders, a lot of collaborators. 596 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: And I think seeing that and seeing him get very close, 597 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: you know, to have a really prestigious director attached to 598 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: the project. They were like really famous producers who would 599 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: almost produce one of my dad's plays and then it 600 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: would fall apart. And I realized I didn't want that. 601 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: I didn't want to spend three years of my life 602 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: writing a script that was eventually not going to make 603 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: it to the stage ignored. Yeah, I'm I have a 604 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: pretty short gratification span. Like I really like being on 605 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: the radio because I do it every day and whatever happens, 606 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: it happens over a twenty four hour arc. And I 607 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of patients. One reason I'm not 608 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: more of an author is I don't really want to 609 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: work for two years on a book and then, you know, 610 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: I have to deal with all that work if they 611 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: have to be a certain kind of person. And your 612 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: father passed away when you were how old he passed away? 613 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: So I guess I was. Yeah, I was forty four. 614 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: He's a lot of the reasons I am the way 615 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: I am. He was a very funny guy. He was 616 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: in a lot of pain, a lot of emotional and 617 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: psychological pain, and it took me a long time to 618 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: understand that how much pain he was in. Because of 619 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: I wanted writing an entire book about it. It's called 620 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: My Father's Footprints. This is why I don't write books, 621 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: Alex So I had this project. Warner Books came to 622 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: me and they said they read an essay that I 623 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: had written about my father. They said, we want you 624 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: to turn it into a whole book, and I said, okay. 625 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: And so the book was called The Last Time My 626 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: Father Died. And it was very much based on the 627 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: idea that, you know, this is sort of true with 628 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: our parents. You kind of watched them die in different 629 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: ways over the course of their lives and or almost 630 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: died from some real medical cause or whatever. So it's 631 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: called The Last Time My Father Died. And I think 632 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: they were this is kind of a right around the 633 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: time of Tuesdays with Mori, and I think they were 634 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: thinking they'd read this essay and they thought, oh, yeah, 635 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: this will be like Tuesdays with Mori, but it's his 636 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: father and his father dies, And it wasn't anything like that. 637 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: It was this kind of big Irish book about Irish 638 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: American dysfunction. And it wasn't a big book, but it 639 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: was a lot of big dysfunction in it. And at 640 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: a certain point they changed the title without telling me. 641 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: It's like somebody looked it up on a border's computer. 642 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: One day they said, you know, your book is not 643 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: called The Last Time My Father Died anymore. And I said, no, 644 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: first t exactly. Now you're born maised in Connecticut. Did 645 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: you spend any length of time living anywhere else? Not 646 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: really No, I mean I made it worse by going 647 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: to Yale, so I didn't get out of the state 648 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: that way either. I'm very similar, which is I used 649 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: to tell people my dream, and it remains my dream. 650 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: I've abandoned it for practical purposes, but in my heart 651 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: it still lives. Which is, I get a nice little 652 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: house in Stockbridge, Massachusetts, and I can walk to the 653 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: Red Line and have lunch every day, and then I can, 654 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: you know, read a book or whatever. I just love 655 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: the Berkshires. I love Tanglewood. That's my favorite place in 656 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: the world. And I love the area in Vermont where 657 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: my wife and I just bought a home. But to 658 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: stay somewhere and to and to live somewhere for maybe 659 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: not your entire life, but much of your life, mean 660 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 1: large chunks of your life. I've kind of fond of 661 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: that idea. Is there anything that you wish you'd done differently? 662 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: Or there are places that you wanted to live? May 663 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: forget about your career. Are the places you wanted to 664 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: experience and live there for a while? And did you 665 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: ever contemplate that yeah. I mean, I mean I'd like 666 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: to live in Paris for a year, but then I'd 667 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: like to come home to Connectic It. I mean, this 668 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: is really hard, you know, I'd like there's a lot 669 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: of places I like to live for a year, but 670 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: I'm fine here, you know. I mean, this really is home. 671 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: It's a beautiful state. I agree about the Berkshires. We 672 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: used to do our show every year from the Berkshire 673 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: Film Festival, which is a really fun, you know, way 674 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: to do something, and everybody's there and so Peter Reager 675 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: comes and sits down at your microphone and start talking whatever. 676 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: You know. Karen Allen has like a shop. I love Karen. 677 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: So I mean, in Connecticut, I've been able to do 678 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: most of the things that I want to do. And 679 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean, thanks to the miracle of the Internet. Yeah, 680 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: I can have an active magazine writing career. I can 681 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 1: write filthy articles for a Cosmopolitan. But I think also 682 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: because I think part of your question is why am 683 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: I at a smaller market, a medium sized market, whatever? 684 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: And there is something fun about punching above your own weight, 685 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: and that's what I think we do on our show. 686 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: And maybe I give us too much credit, but on 687 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: any given day. We field as though we can do 688 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: as good as show is just about anybody. We don't 689 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: have of the kind of you know, phalanx of producers 690 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: that that some shows have, but we feel that we 691 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: can compete with anybody. And it's always kind of thrilling 692 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 1: if you're from Connecticut and you've got a small staff 693 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: and you're doing a show, if like Adam Gopnik, who's 694 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: from the New Yorker, who has been on our show 695 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: a few times, If like Adam will call up my 696 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: producer or email my producer at the end of a 697 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: book tour and say, you know, I just did a 698 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: lot of radio shows. Your show is the best one 699 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 1: I did. That was the most thoughtful interview anybody did. 700 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: That's really thrilling to us when people have that reaction 701 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: and they want to come back to the show. I 702 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: mean that means we're sort of the mouse that roared 703 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: a little bit. There was a day when I got 704 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: on my computer in the morning and there was this 705 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: email that was, you know, purportedly from Ira Glass, and 706 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: it said, high, I've been listening to your show for 707 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: a while and I have some questions about you know, 708 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: what it is you're doing, why you do it? And 709 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: I'm just looking all over to figure out how am 710 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: I being pranked, which one of my friends from college 711 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: has figured out how to make it seem like he's 712 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: sending me an email from Ira Glass. But it did 713 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: turn out it was from Ira and you know, he 714 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: did have something. He'd been listening pretty carefully and he 715 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: had some very specific questions about this. Now, the humiliating 716 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: part about this was he was gonna be giving a 717 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: speech at a public radio conference. He wanted to talk 718 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: about somebody who's doing really creative, innovative programming at the 719 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: local station level, produced out of a you know, a 720 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: local station, and he was going to use us as 721 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: the example. And I wasn't going to be at that conference, 722 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: and I decided I'm not going to be this desperate 723 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: guy who needs to watch this speech to see what 724 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: Ira Glass says about me. And then of course I 725 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: lost all my willpower and I did exactly that, and 726 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: I'm watching and watching it comes to the end of 727 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: the speech and he goes and for example, there is 728 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: this one show. It's very unusual. It's done out of Connecticut. 729 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: The host is a guy named Chris McEnroe, and I went, Chris, 730 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: this is my moment of fame. Ira. Yeah. Do you 731 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: ever think of doing a show with someone else? Or 732 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: do you feel you're the lone ranger you need to 733 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: it's you being you? Or do you ever thought about 734 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: partnering with somebody? I think when you're alone, you want 735 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: a sidekick, and then if you have a sidekick, you 736 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: start thinking why did I want to? Well said, I'm 737 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: a huge fan of yours. Thank you, Colin mcamron, Thank you, 738 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: My thanks to Colin McEnroe. This episode was recorded at 739 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: c DM Studios in New York City. Were produced by 740 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: Kathleen Russo, Zack McNeice, and Maureen Hoban. Our engineer is 741 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Daniel Gingwich. I'm 742 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by 743 00:37:42,360 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio two.