WEBVTT - Ray and Charles Eames: More than Chairs

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're just doing our

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<v Speaker 2>usual chatting it up here on the podcast that we

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<v Speaker 2>like to call stuff you should that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty excited about this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is your pick, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh, yeah, this is one I've been wanting to do

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, here we are, Charles, here we are. Well, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>glad you're excited. I'm excited too. It's a pretty cool topic.

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<v Speaker 2>The Eames, Charles and Ray Eames, Ray and Charles Eames.

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<v Speaker 2>Depending on how you want to say, it doesn't matter

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<v Speaker 2>because any way you slice it, they were equals.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you know, if you don't know who we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about, we should probably say so right off the

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<v Speaker 1>bat they are, or I guess they should say we're

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<v Speaker 1>a married couple who kind of I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>they changed the face of design, but they were certainly

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<v Speaker 1>very influential and design and you know all they did

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<v Speaker 1>all kinds of things in their career, but what they're

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<v Speaker 1>most known for is their design of simple, eye pleasing

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<v Speaker 1>and back then affordable furniture.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm not even sure it was particularly affordable back then,

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<v Speaker 2>but that was definitely their goal. They wanted to make

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<v Speaker 2>the best for the most, for the least. They really

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<v Speaker 2>tied into the ethos that they were working in, which

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<v Speaker 2>was immediately post war economic boom America.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I saw that there. And this was in their

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<v Speaker 1>great documentary Eames Colon, The Architect and the Painter from

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eleven filmmakers Jason Kohne and Bill Jersey. I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>it twice. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>That's an American Masters one, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I think picked it up, but I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think it originally was. But I'm not sure. But

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<v Speaker 1>I saw it back in twenty eleven, I guess, and

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<v Speaker 1>then watch it again yesterday and today. But they said

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<v Speaker 1>that it was, you know, definitely sort of middle to

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<v Speaker 1>upper middle class people were who could afford to buy

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<v Speaker 1>their stuff at the time. But it wasn't for the

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<v Speaker 1>lofty super rich.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, But it also wasn't for your average Joe Schmoe

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<v Speaker 2>with a mortgage and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Well, all some stuff was okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So you said that they didn't necessarily change the face

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<v Speaker 2>of design.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not one hundred percent sure. I guess looking back

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<v Speaker 2>with hindsight, the way that people treat them today, they're

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<v Speaker 2>revered like gods. Yeah, for sure, But I guess maybe

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<v Speaker 2>at the time contemporaneously they were part of a larger push.

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<v Speaker 2>Like they worked with Aerosarinin he was a huge, hugely

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<v Speaker 2>influential architect and designer. They worked to Charles Nelson, a

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<v Speaker 2>hugely influential designer. They were part of like this vanguard,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess of you modernist design again, using kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like industrial readily available, mass producible materials, but applying really

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<v Speaker 2>really like legitimately artistic talent and vision and design to

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<v Speaker 2>the whole thing.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I had no idea until just now that

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<v Speaker 1>Charles Nelson Riley also worked in design.

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<v Speaker 2>He did. He said, I can't even do it. I

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<v Speaker 2>can't do it in person. You me probably could. One

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<v Speaker 2>of our dogs is named Charlie, named after Charles Nelson

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<v Speaker 2>Riley when she was a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh man, I mean, if that's not a joke, for

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, gen X is the low end of that joke.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you see his One man Show? No, they did

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<v Speaker 2>a documentary of his One Man's Show that he did

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<v Speaker 2>before his death. And it's good, very touching, poignant, like

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<v Speaker 2>Charles Nelson Riley with a little bit of his guard down.

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<v Speaker 1>M I'd like to see that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, check it out. But let's say we go back

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<v Speaker 2>to the beginning and we'll let everybody else decide whether

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<v Speaker 2>they change the face of design or not.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, we'll start with well, let's start with Bernice

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<v Speaker 1>Alexandra Kaiser, and we were like, who the heck is

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<v Speaker 1>that her family called her re Ray and that eventually

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<v Speaker 1>just got shortened.

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<v Speaker 2>To Ray got sick of that hyphen.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. She was born in Sacramento in nineteen twelve, and

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<v Speaker 1>she ended up being interested in a lot of things,

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<v Speaker 1>as did her future husband Charles, but she was largely

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<v Speaker 1>an artist and largely a painter, even though she was

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<v Speaker 1>into engineering and obviously design and all kinds of stuff

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<v Speaker 1>like that, But she was basically a painter and would

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<v Speaker 1>eventually study under a gentleman named Hans Hoffmann, very famous

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<v Speaker 1>German expressionist, and was a bit of a rabble rouser

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<v Speaker 1>in the art community early on, and that she was like,

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<v Speaker 1>she was in a group called American abstract artists that

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<v Speaker 1>would do things like Pickett if they didn't you know,

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<v Speaker 1>have art shows that represented different kinds of artists.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, apparently militancy toward modernist ideas was kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>through thread for people who were into modernism, like they

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<v Speaker 2>really were in the face of tradition and bucking that

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<v Speaker 2>whole thing, and part of that was kind of like

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<v Speaker 2>a militant approach to it, which I guess includes picketing

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<v Speaker 2>art galleries. Right, yeah, but she was part of that

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<v Speaker 2>movement before Pollock and d'cooning. Is it to coooning or cooning?

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's decooning.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, before those guys, even like a decade before those

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<v Speaker 2>guys came into it, she was part of like that

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<v Speaker 2>first wave. So yeah, she was legit abstract artists. And

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<v Speaker 2>then her husband was born five years previously, I think

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<v Speaker 2>in nineteen oh seven in Saint Louis, Missouri. Just missed

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<v Speaker 2>the World's Fair. Oh when was that nineteen oh four?

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, well he might have gone.

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<v Speaker 2>Have you ever seen meet me in Saint Louis?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wait years three years prior? Sorry, that would be impossible, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, they could have taken a three year old, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But they couldn't have taken a negative three year old.

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<v Speaker 1>I know they tried.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess technically, I guess they did if that sperm

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<v Speaker 2>had just stayed in the same place and that was

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<v Speaker 2>the same page and they just were frozen in time

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<v Speaker 2>essentially reproductively.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh boy, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>At any rate. He was born in Saint Louis in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen oh seven and he wanted to be an architect,

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<v Speaker 2>essentially out of the gate. He studied architecture at Washington

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<v Speaker 2>University in Saint Louis and he got kicked out. He

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<v Speaker 2>left Slash got kicked out after about two years of

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<v Speaker 2>study because he was also a militant modernist and at

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<v Speaker 2>the time the training he was receiving was not so

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<v Speaker 2>I described as bos art and it was not modernist

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<v Speaker 2>at all, and they were like, get out of here,

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<v Speaker 2>you hippie bozo. So he did.

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<v Speaker 1>He did not stop him though, he was like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm still going to be an architect, Like, how often

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<v Speaker 1>does anyone say, let me see your degree. It's true

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<v Speaker 1>when you're just sing a house, I know. So, even

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<v Speaker 1>though he didn't technically have the professional, you know, school

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<v Speaker 1>credentials finished, he started practicing with a guy named Robert Walsh.

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<v Speaker 1>He was very good at it early on, and everyone

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<v Speaker 1>was like this guy, you know, did you see his degree?

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't see his degree, but I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 1>ask because you should see the way he draws up

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<v Speaker 1>a house.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he would hand off his drawings with this probably

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<v Speaker 2>won't fall down.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that was Frank Loyd, right, Okay. In

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty nine he got married for the first time

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<v Speaker 1>to a woman named Katherine Warman. They were college sweethearts,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess, and had a daughter who had end up

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<v Speaker 1>being the only sired child for Charles Eames. He never

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<v Speaker 1>had a kid with Ray. Her name was Lucia, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was doing such a good job that there was

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<v Speaker 1>an architect. You mentioned his son, Arrow Saranon earlier, but

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<v Speaker 1>the architect, the father, I guess, Eliel Saranon, said Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I like what you're throwing down there, Why don't you

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<v Speaker 1>come on out to Michigan, to the Cranberry Academy of

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<v Speaker 1>Art in Bloomfield Heels Hills, and why don't you become well,

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, come out for a fellowship. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>as you'll see, Charles Eames was very ambitious guy, and

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<v Speaker 1>before you know it, he was the director of the

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<v Speaker 1>industrial design program there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was supposedly thinking he was just going to

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<v Speaker 2>go there and take it easy and kind of regather, regroup,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're like, no, you're too talented. You need to

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<v Speaker 2>head all this up at Cranbrook.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe, right, which is very key because that is

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<v Speaker 1>where Rey Ray ended up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm working together at Cranbrook. They got into one

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<v Speaker 2>of their early materials, probably the material that made them

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<v Speaker 2>famous at least initially but still is kind of associated

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<v Speaker 2>with their design, plywood. Plywood. They were like, plywood, We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to start making things out of plywood. Just watch.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think at the time plywood doesn't have quite

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<v Speaker 2>the connotation that does now, like the stuff you just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of lay over your attic rafters and crawl on like.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a little more high tech than that, but

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<v Speaker 2>not that much more so. The idea of taking plywood

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<v Speaker 2>and turning into a beautiful organic design that also was

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<v Speaker 2>functional too, it was kind of groundbreaking.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. Arrow and Charles and then Ray assisted

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<v Speaker 1>on this project. Entered a chair into a Museum of

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<v Speaker 1>Modern Arts nineteen forty one organic Design and Home Furnishings competition,

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<v Speaker 1>and they won. Even though this chair was technically a failure,

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<v Speaker 1>they were you know, they realized the reason they love

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<v Speaker 1>plywood is that they could bend it in two different directions.

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<v Speaker 2>They won because they found love.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably so, but you could, you know, you could curve

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<v Speaker 1>wood pieces that weren't plywood. But what you couldn't do

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<v Speaker 1>is curve a wood piece and then curve it again

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<v Speaker 1>in a different direction. Right, But they found that with

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<v Speaker 1>plywood you basically could. But it was pretty early on

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<v Speaker 1>in this process. So their chair where the back met

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<v Speaker 1>the seat would splinter, which is no good. But they

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<v Speaker 1>ended up covering it in fabric to hide that something

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<v Speaker 1>that you'll see. They did not like fabric later in

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<v Speaker 1>their designs. They thought it was sort of old fashioned.

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<v Speaker 1>It was expensive, and they were trying to make stuff

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<v Speaker 1>a little more affordable. But they covered this thing and

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<v Speaker 1>fabric to hide that, and they won the competition. But

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<v Speaker 1>the chair was even though it won the competition, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a failure in that it was it could not

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<v Speaker 1>be mass produced basically as is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I saw. Another stage of their plywood bending molding

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<v Speaker 2>design was that they figured out that they could bend

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<v Speaker 2>it even further if they cut like a slit in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, and they would make it.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost like a keyhole slit, so it looked like a

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<v Speaker 2>design element, but really it was allowing them to mold

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<v Speaker 2>it a little further than than before. They were just

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<v Speaker 2>what they were doing throughout like the late twenties and

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<v Speaker 2>through the whole thirties and into the forties, they were

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<v Speaker 2>experimenting with bending plywood to their will, essentially come here plywood. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so that was I think. Did you say Ray helped

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<v Speaker 2>on that particular one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she worked with them, and that's where they, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>fell in love.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So Charles and his first wife, Catherine, divorced I

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<v Speaker 2>think after about eleven or twelve years of marriage, and

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<v Speaker 2>he went after Ray pretty much immediately after, and they

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<v Speaker 2>got married in nineteen forty one. And right after they

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<v Speaker 2>got married in nineteen forty one, they did what any

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<v Speaker 2>self respecting artist was doing at the time. They looked

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<v Speaker 2>westward and got into some gelapi or other and drove

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<v Speaker 2>out to California.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're like, forget it, New York, We're going.

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<v Speaker 2>To La Also, I should say, I'm presuming they drove,

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<v Speaker 2>but knowing me and the streak I'm on lately, they

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<v Speaker 2>definitely flew. And everyone knows that they flew except me.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh come on, So they went to La I'm with you, man.

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<v Speaker 1>They drove their butts to California.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks, Chuck, You're so supportive of me.

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<v Speaker 1>And I like to like the Beverly Hillbillies. Charles was

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<v Speaker 1>on top of a rocking chair.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and Ray had the shotgun in her lap.

0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Can you imagine? I mean that setup was very insane.

0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.079
<v Speaker 1>There's a gun in a lap, There's an elderly woman

0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:12.600
<v Speaker 1>in a rocking chair on top of a truck.

0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.960
<v Speaker 2>Exactly. Yeah, but that's the hillbilly way. They don't care.

0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.760
<v Speaker 2>They'll they'll they'll look danger in the face and laugh

0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:19.960
<v Speaker 2>all the way to California.

0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.920
<v Speaker 1>So they get to California, they started making connections, obviously

0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.000
<v Speaker 1>pretty quickly out there to the southern California modernist scene,

0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.680
<v Speaker 1>which was just getting going pretty hoppin'. A very key

0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:36.000
<v Speaker 1>person they met and befriended was a guy named John Intenza,

0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.800
<v Speaker 1>who published Arts and Architecture magazine, and they ended up

0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:45.760
<v Speaker 1>designing twenty six different covers over like a five year period.

0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:46.600
<v Speaker 1>That's a lot.

0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:47.520
<v Speaker 2>That's about half.

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm not a big math guy, but is it

0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:50.640
<v Speaker 1>a monthly.

0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if it was monthly that's sixty issues over that

0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.439
<v Speaker 2>five years, and if they did twenty six, it's almost

0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 2>half of them.

0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.079
<v Speaker 1>As soon as I said was it monthly? I immediately

0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:01.760
<v Speaker 1>panicked the name that I had just said was Arts

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 1>and Architecture monthly.

0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.320
<v Speaker 2>No, you did, and it's just Arts and Architecture quarterly.

0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.600
<v Speaker 1>All right, oh quarterly. So they designed a bunch of

0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:15.480
<v Speaker 1>those covers. Intenza became a big sort of supporter of theirs.

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.960
<v Speaker 1>And they also met a guy, an architect named Richard Neutra,

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.480
<v Speaker 1>who said, hey, I designed these killer apartments in Westwoode,

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.760
<v Speaker 1>the Strathmore apartments, and you should live in one of

0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.560
<v Speaker 1>them because Orson Wells will live there too.

0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Strathmore makes me think of like some new skyscraper,

0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:38.359
<v Speaker 2>but it was like a two story house ish structured,

0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 2>I think, divided into three apartments. And they're still on

0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:42.880
<v Speaker 2>the market these days.

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.800
<v Speaker 1>So they're very nice looking.

0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.440
<v Speaker 2>They are. They're very cool. So they just started making

0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 2>connections right off the bat, but they weren't really making

0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 2>any money, and Charles ended up well, they were doing

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.160
<v Speaker 2>two things. They were spending all of their free time

0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.000
<v Speaker 2>working at home in their apartment, which they can burn

0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.440
<v Speaker 2>it into like a working studio bending plywood. There's a

0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:09.400
<v Speaker 2>legendary machine called the Kazam Machine that no one seems

0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 2>to know exactly how it worked, but they used it

0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.280
<v Speaker 2>to mold plywood. To bend plywood. Part of it involved

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.800
<v Speaker 2>a heavy balloon and a bicycle pump that would provide

0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 2>the shape that it would be molded against. But somehow

0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.280
<v Speaker 2>it also used electricity. So Charles climbed an electrical pole

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 2>and tapped into the electricity. Very very unwise thing to do,

0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 2>and luckily he survived. But that's how that's how broke

0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 2>they were. They were stealing electricity to power their Kazam

0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.880
<v Speaker 2>machine in their studio where they were still working on

0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:42.160
<v Speaker 2>plywood designs.

0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it used heating coils, so that had to have

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 1>been what took all of the juice. Sure, and you know,

0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.640
<v Speaker 1>applying heat to bin something is a pretty tried and

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.240
<v Speaker 1>true method. So I don't know about the air pump

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.760
<v Speaker 1>the balloon. I can picture, uh huh, but I don't

0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 1>know what that bike pump did it blew up the balloon. Yeah,

0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.120
<v Speaker 1>And if you look at the Kazam machine, it's it

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>looks almost like a tique lounge chair that hasn't been

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:06.440
<v Speaker 1>finished yet.

0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.720
<v Speaker 2>Exactly exactly. It's dancing right along the line of a

0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.000
<v Speaker 2>wick a wheelchair. So I'm not a big fan of it.

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like I would have come in like a dummy

0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.040
<v Speaker 1>and said, you're trying to design a chair with this thing,

0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 1>look at it. Just sit in it. That's right, You've

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:18.800
<v Speaker 1>got your chair.

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.760
<v Speaker 2>But they called that the Kazam machine as a reference

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.280
<v Speaker 2>to Alec Kazam, because you would put in like plywood

0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.560
<v Speaker 2>and glue and something magically different would appear.

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Out Kazam with a exclamation plant. Yeah, sure after kazam,

0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:32.960
<v Speaker 1>not after machine.

0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 2>That's right, although they should have used two and been

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 2>like Kazam machine.

0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, that would conjure something very deadly, so I guess.

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 3>So.

0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Like I said, they were pretty broke, and Charles ended

0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.640
<v Speaker 2>up taking a job at MGM designing sets. I believe

0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 2>could not for life of me find out what films

0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.920
<v Speaker 2>he actually worked on. But while there he was not

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 2>happy about that. He wrote to a friend that all

0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 2>hope for the future is lost, but I get a

0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:04.240
<v Speaker 2>regular paycheck. So he was also taking materials that he

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.040
<v Speaker 2>found from his work back home too, to use in

0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:10.560
<v Speaker 2>their home studio. But he also made I think a

0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.120
<v Speaker 2>lifelong friend in director Billy Wilder.

0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah and great.

0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Billy Wilder. Isn't he Chad our director from the

0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Stuff You should Know TV Show's favorite director?

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:23.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:23.320
<v Speaker 3>Is he?

0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>I think Chad said The Apartment is his favorite movie

0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:26.880
<v Speaker 2>of all time.

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.720
<v Speaker 1>It's a great one. That's what our pal Scott Ackerman

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:31.840
<v Speaker 1>chose for a movie crush.

0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, there you go.

0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, one of the great movies. And Billy Wilder

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:37.280
<v Speaker 1>did all kinds of great movies.

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:41.320
<v Speaker 2>You had me at Sunset Boulevard, Yeah, exactly. So the

0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.120
<v Speaker 2>em Shase the reason Billy Wilder figures into it, aside

0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.600
<v Speaker 2>from like, wow, there's the name drop right there. The

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:52.560
<v Speaker 2>em shase, which is a very famous well shave lounge

0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 2>decked out in leather with like a pillow to go

0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 2>under your caves and everything. It's to me, it looks

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.520
<v Speaker 2>like what your psychologists would use while they gave you

0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.119
<v Speaker 2>a guy innecological exam. It's like a cross between a

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.159
<v Speaker 2>couch and your shrink's office and an exam table in

0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:10.159
<v Speaker 2>your doctor's office.

0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, just a word of advice if your psychologists

0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.040
<v Speaker 1>trying to give you a gynological kind of logical exam.

0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 2>That's exit stage left. Quickly. Yeah, so, yes, thank you

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.800
<v Speaker 2>for taking my joke and turning it really dark.

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, I just want to make sure everyone

0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:30.840
<v Speaker 1>understood clearly.

0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:34.439
<v Speaker 2>But the reason Billy Wilder inspired the Eames Shays is

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.399
<v Speaker 2>that he would take naps on sets, and apparently there

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.320
<v Speaker 2>was one that bless him that Charles Eames witness where

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Billy Wilder was taking a nap on a six by

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.240
<v Speaker 2>twelve inch plank that was stood up on two saw horses.

0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.119
<v Speaker 2>That's where he was napping. That's no good, no, So

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Charles was like, I need to help my friend here.

0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.879
<v Speaker 1>All right. I think that's a good time for a break.

0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.560
<v Speaker 1>You get Billy Wilder asleep in the corner one of

0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 1>those psychologists chases.

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.399
<v Speaker 2>No, this one's straight. It's not the other one. The

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:06.919
<v Speaker 2>curvy one's the lush chaise.

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh really, because I saw the chase was the curvy one.

0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Now there's two. One of the curvy one is called

0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.639
<v Speaker 2>lush chaise. The emshaise, the original em shase is like

0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.119
<v Speaker 2>it looks like one of their like aluminum group leather

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:25.600
<v Speaker 2>upholstered chairs, but laid out essentially flat.

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.159
<v Speaker 1>Oh Billy Wilder should stuck around.

0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm telling you my my description of it was like

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 2>spot on.

0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.280
<v Speaker 1>In my head, though it made more sense for the

0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Curby one. Your description.

0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess so if you wanted to be really comfortable.

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 1>All right, we'll take a break and we'll be right back.

0:18:55.200 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 3>And stub with Joshua John. All right.

0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.639
<v Speaker 1>So World War two rolls around, and this was a

0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.439
<v Speaker 1>bit of a shift for everybody in the world, probably

0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:26.760
<v Speaker 1>but certainly for the Eames family. Southern California is very

0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.160
<v Speaker 1>was and still is very big in defense manufacturing, and

0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.679
<v Speaker 1>the military said, hey, this plywood stuff is really something.

0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:35.359
<v Speaker 2>Have you seen this plywood?

0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.159
<v Speaker 1>We like to you know, it's lightweight, it's you know,

0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.159
<v Speaker 1>can be bent in two different directions out here if

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.320
<v Speaker 1>you have a kazam machine and we're into it. And

0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 1>they knew a guy named Wendell Scott, an old friend

0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.280
<v Speaker 1>of Charles's, who was a Navy doctor. They got together

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.880
<v Speaker 1>for a visit. He saw this kazam machine and he said,

0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.080
<v Speaker 1>wait a minute. We've been using these metal leg splints

0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.240
<v Speaker 1>for war and these things are no good that they're

0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.440
<v Speaker 1>not good for protection in the field. We need metal

0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.679
<v Speaker 1>for other things. And we think that you might be

0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.440
<v Speaker 1>able to or I think you might be able to

0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.639
<v Speaker 1>build some better wooden splints out of bending plywood.

0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that's exactly what they did. They recruited a

0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.520
<v Speaker 2>friend that Charles had made an MGM, a theater designer

0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 2>named Margaret Harris, and together with them and Intenza, they're

0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.560
<v Speaker 2>pretty much their benefactor by this point. In Los Angeles,

0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:33.399
<v Speaker 2>they created a wooden splint for the US Navy that

0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.480
<v Speaker 2>was lightweight. It had strategic holes in it that made

0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.280
<v Speaker 2>it extra light weight, but also you could run straps

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.840
<v Speaker 2>through to strap the leg to the splint. They were stackable,

0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.639
<v Speaker 2>very very important. So it was mass producible, it was

0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.640
<v Speaker 2>extremely mobile, it was lightweight, but it also looked kind

0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:52.320
<v Speaker 2>of nice. I mean, as far as leg splints go,

0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:53.840
<v Speaker 2>it's an attractive legs point.

0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.600
<v Speaker 1>It was called the Transportation egg splint. Egg splint, Oh, my.

0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 2>Lord, Transportation Egg's Benedict leg splint.

0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 1>And they made five thousand. The Navy ordered five thousand

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:07.160
<v Speaker 1>of these things, so all of a sudden they had

0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:08.280
<v Speaker 1>a little money coming in.

0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because at ten dollars per that's what they charged. Yeah,

0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.720
<v Speaker 2>they could have that'd be a million dollars a million

0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:15.440
<v Speaker 2>dollar order.

0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 1>That's a lot of dough.

0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.280
<v Speaker 2>And that's not my math. I just went ahead and

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.159
<v Speaker 2>converted it to today's dollars. That's what I.

0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh, okay, I was about to say, here we go.

0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Five thousand times ten is a million.

0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.520
<v Speaker 1>So such money that they were able to form a

0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:35.800
<v Speaker 1>company called the Plywood I'm sorry, deply formed wood Company.

0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.520
<v Speaker 1>They had a little office in Venice Beach at the time,

0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:40.879
<v Speaker 1>and they sold that thing. They didn't want to be

0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.080
<v Speaker 1>in that business, really, so they built it and they

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.360
<v Speaker 1>sold it to a company based out a mission called

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.680
<v Speaker 1>Evans Products. Charles worked there for a little while, headed

0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.920
<v Speaker 1>up the molded plywood division. And then the big, big

0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:56.640
<v Speaker 1>change in their life came in nineteen forty three when

0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:00.200
<v Speaker 1>they opened up what they called nine oh one, which

0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.600
<v Speaker 1>was their office. It's still there today at nine oh

0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:06.159
<v Speaker 1>one now it's Abbot Kenney Boulevard. Back then it was

0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:08.399
<v Speaker 1>West Washington Boulevard in Venice.

0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.359
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha. So, yeah, the leg splint thing was not just

0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:14.919
<v Speaker 2>a little boondoggle we went on. The reason it was

0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:17.360
<v Speaker 2>important was they made a bunch of contexts. They got

0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:19.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of business experience, they got a little money,

0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.560
<v Speaker 2>and they essentially that's what gave them the foundation to

0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:27.560
<v Speaker 2>move up from being broke theater designers who were just

0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:32.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of working in their apartment to legitimate furniture designers

0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.200
<v Speaker 2>who now had their own business in office.

0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean they got equipment too, and materials they had.

0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.640
<v Speaker 1>They were pretty set up there at nine oh one,

0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:43.520
<v Speaker 1>for sure, And if you watch the documentary or just

0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 1>know about nine oh one, it was a it was

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:49.040
<v Speaker 1>a bit of a kind of a crazy wonderland to

0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.040
<v Speaker 1>work at. Some of the designers there said it was

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:56.160
<v Speaker 1>like working at Disneyland. It was fun. There weren't sort

0:22:56.200 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 1>of regular routines. There weren't stuffy staff meetings. It was

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.600
<v Speaker 1>just one of those places where, you know, long before

0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:07.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, every tech office in the world was like,

0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.320
<v Speaker 1>let's have a ping pong table and you know, skittles

0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.520
<v Speaker 1>all over the place. They had a sort of a

0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 1>classy version of that in nineteen forty three, which was

0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.640
<v Speaker 1>not how offices worked back then, even creative offices.

0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as we'll see. One of the things they're also

0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>known for is they made a line of toys. And

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.679
<v Speaker 2>the reason they also kind of forade into toys is

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:32.720
<v Speaker 2>because at least two Charles, but I think also to

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Ray as well. Charles often like gets the quotes, but

0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:40.399
<v Speaker 2>they were in such sink that I assume in a

0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:42.960
<v Speaker 2>lot of cases, Ray probably felt at least similar, if

0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:45.399
<v Speaker 2>not the same. But in this instance, Charles had some

0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:50.240
<v Speaker 2>quote about how play is actually serious business, that that's

0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:52.879
<v Speaker 2>the kind of thing that unlocks curiosity. Just doing an

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:56.919
<v Speaker 2>activity simply for the activity's sake just kind of resets

0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.160
<v Speaker 2>the brain and the mind. So I'm not at all

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.200
<v Speaker 2>surprised to hear that their office was was like that,

0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:04.680
<v Speaker 2>because that's just what they seemed to do. They would

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:06.879
<v Speaker 2>just do stuff learn by doing all the time.

0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Another reason they went into things like toys and

0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:13.960
<v Speaker 1>then later filmmaking, as we'll see, is he didn't as

0:24:14.000 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 1>great as his reputation was. He didn't want to be

0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:16.480
<v Speaker 1>chair guy.

0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Sure, plus he really liked toys.

0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:21.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but he's so good at chairs.

0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Right. Well, that's the thing, like when you hear the

0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 2>word emes like almost probably eighty percent of the time,

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:31.760
<v Speaker 2>if not more, the next word is chair. Yeah, because

0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:35.000
<v Speaker 2>the chairs that they designed are so iconic and the

0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:36.959
<v Speaker 2>first one that they hit the market with. So they

0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:41.120
<v Speaker 2>opened the office in nineteen forty three. By nineteen forty six,

0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:43.679
<v Speaker 2>they had a chair in mass production. At first with

0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:46.359
<v Speaker 2>that Evans products. But eventually Evans is like, we don't

0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:47.960
<v Speaker 2>really know what we're doing. We're more of the leg

0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 2>splint producers. Maybe you guy should talk to Herman Miller.

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's what they did.

0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:55.800
<v Speaker 2>They came up with the Eames Chair would, the ECW.

0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:59.679
<v Speaker 2>Nowadays it's called the LCW the lounge chair would and

0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:05.000
<v Speaker 2>it's molded bent plywood on a plywood base and it

0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:08.800
<v Speaker 2>is gorgeous and it's actually super comfortable without a lick

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:09.680
<v Speaker 2>of padding on it.

0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's you know, they figured out if you mold

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:16.199
<v Speaker 1>something just right to where the human body can function

0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 1>well in it. And they were into form, but they

0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.719
<v Speaker 1>were very much into function. They did not want some weird,

0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.680
<v Speaker 1>fancy looking thing that's not fun or comfortable to sit on. Ever.

0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Ray had a quote and I assumed Charles probably

0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:32.879
<v Speaker 2>felt the same way, is that what works is better

0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:35.680
<v Speaker 2>than what looks good. The looks can change, but what

0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:39.720
<v Speaker 2>works works, and there's a ton of wisdom in there.

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:43.720
<v Speaker 1>That was actually Ray, That's what I said. Oh, oh oh, okay,

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I didn't get the joke.

0:25:44.640 --> 0:25:46.880
<v Speaker 2>I've made a reference to the joke where I went

0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:50.720
<v Speaker 2>on some horrible tangent earlier about Yeah, I was about

0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:52.720
<v Speaker 2>to do it again. So thank you for saving everyone.

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:56.280
<v Speaker 1>So Herman Miller you mentioned, this is a big deal

0:25:56.320 --> 0:26:00.480
<v Speaker 1>because the Herman Miller company out of Michigan was great

0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:05.200
<v Speaker 1>at making furniture. They were producing modernist furniture. Oh boy,

0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:08.040
<v Speaker 1>did we already have a big mistake with Charles Nelson?

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:12.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I guess maybe maybe I said Charles.

0:26:11.920 --> 0:26:14.000
<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, George Nelson is who we're talking about,

0:26:14.400 --> 0:26:18.920
<v Speaker 1>very iconic designer. In fact, in my little studio here,

0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:21.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at a George Nelson clock.

0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Which one.

0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:25.399
<v Speaker 1>The one that is rounded wood?

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:29.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like the balls on the end, the ball clock.

0:26:30.720 --> 0:26:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's like someone took a round ball made

0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:38.639
<v Speaker 1>of wood and then sliced the first third of it

0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 1>off and that's a clock face.

0:26:41.119 --> 0:26:43.680
<v Speaker 2>I got you, Okay, Yeah, we have the eye clock.

0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:46.160
<v Speaker 1>The eye clock. I think I know which one you're

0:26:46.160 --> 0:26:46.560
<v Speaker 1>talking about.

0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:49.640
<v Speaker 2>It it looks like an eye and the like the numbers.

0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:52.000
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't have numbers, but you know, like the little

0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:54.479
<v Speaker 2>lines that go to the numbers. It has those, but

0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:58.160
<v Speaker 2>they're in some crazy, weird spread out positions, but they

0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:01.880
<v Speaker 2>still keep time. It's really amazing. But yeah, George Nelson's

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:05.240
<v Speaker 2>very well known for creating a lot of super fifties clocks.

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't think any of his clocks had numbers,

0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:09.800
<v Speaker 1>if I'm not mistaken, because he was kind of like,

0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.040
<v Speaker 1>you don't need a number if you know what o'clock

0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:15.760
<v Speaker 1>looks like and how to read it. Yeah, And you

0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:17.520
<v Speaker 1>know that's another reason this one's fun for us, because

0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:18.920
<v Speaker 1>both of us love this stuff.

0:27:19.119 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So for George Nelson, go look up Nelson clocks,

0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:26.600
<v Speaker 2>look up Nelson bubble lamps. Probably seen those before. The

0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Nelson platform bench and then the swag leg desk. Those

0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:33.800
<v Speaker 2>are some of his best designs. But in addition to

0:27:33.840 --> 0:27:36.080
<v Speaker 2>being a designer himself, he also he was one of

0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.840
<v Speaker 2>those A plus people who recruited other A plus people

0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:42.439
<v Speaker 2>to work with him. Yeah, and one of the groups

0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:46.080
<v Speaker 2>of A plus people he recruited were the emes, and

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:50.720
<v Speaker 2>they started working with George Nelson at Herman Miller essentially

0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:55.720
<v Speaker 2>as like independent contractors, just probably exclusively sending their designs

0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:57.200
<v Speaker 2>to Herman Miller to be produced.

0:27:57.760 --> 0:27:59.920
<v Speaker 1>That's right, And could you imagine if we didn't have

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.960
<v Speaker 1>little slip ups, we've never gotten to Charles Nilson, Riley sidebar.

0:28:03.920 --> 0:28:07.959
<v Speaker 2>Man you just found the silver lining to that thousand emails.

0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:12.560
<v Speaker 1>So and that's a good lesson to people to never

0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:14.560
<v Speaker 1>stop the podcast right in the middle to email us

0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:19.119
<v Speaker 1>a correction. Sometimes we catch things. So they're working together

0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:22.920
<v Speaker 1>now they're working for Herman Miller. This is a sort

0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:25.600
<v Speaker 1>of a match made in heaven because they had the

0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:29.160
<v Speaker 1>smarts and the experience to like mass produce and pump

0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:32.320
<v Speaker 1>out these great designs. On Herman Miller side, they had

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:36.199
<v Speaker 1>these amazing designers now working for them, and they, like

0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:38.160
<v Speaker 1>you said, you know, from the beginning they were trying

0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:41.160
<v Speaker 1>to create these sort of simple, stylish but you know,

0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 1>practical pieces and as we'll see, you know, things that

0:28:44.600 --> 0:28:48.080
<v Speaker 1>would end up going in schools and bus stations and

0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:48.680
<v Speaker 1>stuff like.

0:28:48.640 --> 0:28:51.080
<v Speaker 2>That and airports. So if you go to an airport

0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:54.600
<v Speaker 2>today and you see like that long row of chairs

0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:56.680
<v Speaker 2>that you just sit in while you're waiting at the gate,

0:28:57.000 --> 0:28:59.960
<v Speaker 2>and they're all connected by metal. They have a leather back,

0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:04.840
<v Speaker 2>a leather seat in two you know arms. That's that's

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:08.320
<v Speaker 2>an EMES design there the air I can't remember the

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:11.480
<v Speaker 2>sling Group chair is what they're called. And they're still

0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:14.680
<v Speaker 2>in production. So if it's not an actual legitimate emes. Yeah,

0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:18.360
<v Speaker 2>set of chairs, it's a knockoff of it. That's how

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:22.720
<v Speaker 2>ubiquitous there stuff is. It was like everywhere, like most

0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:24.360
<v Speaker 2>of the stuff we're talking about. If you can't bring

0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:26.640
<v Speaker 2>it to mine, I will bet that if you go

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 2>look it up, yeah, probably seen it before.

0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean their stuff is either literally all over

0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:36.440
<v Speaker 1>the place or just in spirit in a lot of places.

0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Just ubiquitous in America, yeah for sure. Maybe elsewhere, but

0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:42.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't I don't get to travel much.

0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:45.920
<v Speaker 2>I know, I haven't traveled that much either. It's always

0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:46.400
<v Speaker 2>for tour.

0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:52.440
<v Speaker 1>For Ray's side, she was an amazing artist, a great painter.

0:29:53.880 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 1>She ended up working, you know, in adding a lot

0:29:57.240 --> 0:30:00.160
<v Speaker 1>of fun and design elements to the things that were happening.

0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:03.400
<v Speaker 1>If you watch a documentary, you definitely get the sense

0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:06.360
<v Speaker 1>that she she's the one that kind of held it

0:30:06.400 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 1>all together. She had a great attention to detail. So

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:14.719
<v Speaker 1>like as far as the company, you know, functioning as

0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:16.880
<v Speaker 1>a as a company and not just a funhouse of

0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:19.880
<v Speaker 1>like kids designing things. You know, as far as the

0:30:19.880 --> 0:30:22.960
<v Speaker 1>staff goes, she kind of kept things on the rails

0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:27.280
<v Speaker 1>and also provided a lot of fun and color and

0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:31.680
<v Speaker 1>textural detail and you know, if you watch interviews you

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 1>know with them over the years on YouTube, she's always

0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:37.520
<v Speaker 1>standing behind Charles, of course, and she doesn't say much

0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:40.400
<v Speaker 1>on camera. It's always him and his name is the

0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:42.840
<v Speaker 1>one that's up there, and it gets a little frustrating,

0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 1>but it was the fact of the matter is it

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:48.440
<v Speaker 1>was just a time in the nineteen fifties where even

0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:50.600
<v Speaker 1>though Charles would say things like anything I can do,

0:30:50.720 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Ray can do better than me. It's just how it was.

0:30:54.960 --> 0:30:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Then she took a bit of a back seat unfortunately.

0:30:57.760 --> 0:31:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and yeah, there's no other way to put it.

0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.959
<v Speaker 2>It's just how it was. There's a very famous clip

0:31:02.960 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 2>of them on an NBC show called Home that was

0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 2>hosted by the actress Arlene Francis, And in this clip,

0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:12.920
<v Speaker 2>it's like I think nine or eleven minute like segment

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:16.120
<v Speaker 2>on the show. Yeah, they actually debuted, Yeah it is.

0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:19.040
<v Speaker 2>They debuted one of their famous chairs, which we'll talk

0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:22.680
<v Speaker 2>about in the second, the Eames lounge chair. But Arlene

0:31:22.720 --> 0:31:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Francis is even like almost cattily dismissive of Ray, and

0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 2>Ray is just sitting there likes has to have a

0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 2>big smile on her face, because that's what you're expected

0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:35.240
<v Speaker 2>to do. But she was just sidelined, just pushed to

0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:38.560
<v Speaker 2>the side in this interview. Despite yeah, over the years,

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:40.680
<v Speaker 2>like Charles just being like, no, this this, this one's

0:31:40.720 --> 0:31:43.360
<v Speaker 2>not behind me, she's right next to me, Like we're equals,

0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>we're partners where you do this together. The society was

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:48.600
<v Speaker 2>just like, that's that's not true stuff.

0:31:48.680 --> 0:31:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's kind of like I'm paraphrasing, but the overall

0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:55.200
<v Speaker 1>vibe was in the brief time she was allowed to speak,

0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:57.360
<v Speaker 1>was tell me how you support your husband that kind

0:31:57.400 --> 0:32:03.000
<v Speaker 1>of thing exactly. Yeah. So they're making all kinds of

0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:09.120
<v Speaker 1>things collapsible sofas, fiberglass shell chairs, those were very, very famous.

0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:11.400
<v Speaker 1>If you look up there and I think this one

0:32:11.400 --> 0:32:15.680
<v Speaker 1>wont to Design Award for moment as well. In nineteen

0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:21.360
<v Speaker 1>fifty there molded fiberglass armchair. Look that thing up and

0:32:21.480 --> 0:32:23.520
<v Speaker 1>you'll say, oh that chair.

0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:26.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the one that I've sat in in every school

0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:29.920
<v Speaker 2>cafeteria ever at the bus station. Like if you see

0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:33.280
<v Speaker 2>like a seat that's plastic and kind of molded to

0:32:33.320 --> 0:32:37.480
<v Speaker 2>fit your form, that was the Eames fiberglass armchair.

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, And again songs upholstery, they would end up

0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:45.080
<v Speaker 1>using leather, as we'll see here in a second. But

0:32:45.800 --> 0:32:49.640
<v Speaker 1>most of this early stuff was like aluminum molded fiberglass

0:32:49.840 --> 0:32:54.360
<v Speaker 1>and don't forget plywood, plastic, plywood, wire mesh stuff like that.

0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which, to me, that's what I don't like about

0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:01.360
<v Speaker 2>their design. It has too much of an industrial flavor,

0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:04.080
<v Speaker 2>which is exactly what they're going for. They were trying

0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:06.080
<v Speaker 2>to show like, you can you can come up with

0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:10.800
<v Speaker 2>beautiful design that's affordable using mass produced, you know, materials,

0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:12.800
<v Speaker 2>and so that's what they were doing. But it just

0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:15.520
<v Speaker 2>looks a little industrial to me. And then it has

0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:19.840
<v Speaker 2>that veneer of like fifty years, which makes industrial products

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:24.920
<v Speaker 2>like somehow creepy. So some of their actual vintage stuff

0:33:24.960 --> 0:33:27.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm not crazy about. But there's a really cute segment

0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:31.600
<v Speaker 2>on Antique's road Show if you want to see one

0:33:31.640 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 2>of the EMES storage units, one of their earliest ones,

0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:37.920
<v Speaker 2>if you look up Herman Miller storage unit Fort Worth,

0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 2>there's like a five or six minute segment where this

0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:44.360
<v Speaker 2>woman is told that something she paid fifteen dollars for

0:33:44.480 --> 0:33:47.760
<v Speaker 2>is worth like twenty thousand dollars. Oh wow, I love

0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Antiques Roadshow.

0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:51.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a great show. And another thing that was

0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:54.640
<v Speaker 1>great about their designs with these chairs in particulars that

0:33:54.680 --> 0:33:57.440
<v Speaker 1>they were stackable. I think they may have learned from

0:33:57.440 --> 0:34:01.400
<v Speaker 1>that egg splint that if you make something stackable, that

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:03.959
<v Speaker 1>that's very handy if you have to clear a cafeteria

0:34:04.000 --> 0:34:07.600
<v Speaker 1>for a school play or dodgeball.

0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Right exactly. So that was their their genuinely affordable breakthrough,

0:34:13.400 --> 0:34:15.279
<v Speaker 2>and they actually kind of, from what I can tell,

0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:19.719
<v Speaker 2>left molded plywood largely behind. That's not entirely true, but

0:34:19.760 --> 0:34:23.920
<v Speaker 2>they really went, you know, full bore on molded fiberglass

0:34:23.960 --> 0:34:26.440
<v Speaker 2>and then plastic because it really did fulfill a lot

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:30.120
<v Speaker 2>of the service their purposes they wanted, including affordability. Like

0:34:30.160 --> 0:34:33.000
<v Speaker 2>that first chair of theirs, Time magazine named it the

0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:35.879
<v Speaker 2>chair of the century. Before the century, it was even

0:34:35.920 --> 0:34:38.560
<v Speaker 2>halfway through, Like that's how much of a splash it made.

0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:41.440
<v Speaker 2>And they were making it for like the average person

0:34:41.840 --> 0:34:44.279
<v Speaker 2>to be able to buy. But it was still in

0:34:44.320 --> 0:34:47.080
<v Speaker 2>today's dollars, like a five hundred and twenty five dollars

0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:50.319
<v Speaker 2>like single chair, you know what I mean, So it

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:53.120
<v Speaker 2>wasn't exactly affordable. When they started to get into fiberglass

0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 2>and plastic, then they were making chairs that the average

0:34:55.640 --> 0:34:56.520
<v Speaker 2>person could afford.

0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:59.520
<v Speaker 1>I wonder if like when they made that announcement. How

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 1>many chair designers and builders were just like, well, what's

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:08.560
<v Speaker 1>the point and just threw their chair into the fireplace.

0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:10.439
<v Speaker 2>Like I guess I'll go into toys. Damn it. They're

0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:11.359
<v Speaker 2>into toys too.

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:15.640
<v Speaker 1>So you said they moved away from plywood, but not

0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:20.960
<v Speaker 1>before this iconic chair that you mentioned briefly earlier.

0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:22.680
<v Speaker 2>That's why I corrected myself.

0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:26.920
<v Speaker 1>The Eames lounge, which was molded plywood. It was fabric.

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.000
<v Speaker 1>The very first one that was introduced on that show

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:33.920
<v Speaker 1>was rosewood, plywood and black leather. And this is the

0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:36.480
<v Speaker 1>one that made them famous. It came with an ottoman

0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:38.000
<v Speaker 1>or I guess. I don't even know if you had

0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:42.879
<v Speaker 1>to buy it separately back then, but it was. It's

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.719
<v Speaker 1>a gorgeous chair. I mean, they're the ones they sit

0:35:45.760 --> 0:35:52.239
<v Speaker 1>on on Shark Tank. They are copied heavily. I imagine the

0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:56.200
<v Speaker 1>knockoffs are not nearly as good. But I don't own one,

0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:58.520
<v Speaker 1>but I've always wonted one, and I think one day

0:35:58.520 --> 0:35:59.959
<v Speaker 1>I might have to splash down for one.

0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.960
<v Speaker 2>There's this one that I covet that was owned by

0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:08.319
<v Speaker 2>orvile Reddenbacher, which just somehow makes it even more like

0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:09.759
<v Speaker 2>mid century. Amazing.

0:36:09.840 --> 0:36:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Do you imagine eating popcorn in that thing? Watching a movie?

0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:14.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, there's this guy who is, like, you know,

0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:19.600
<v Speaker 2>he refurbished an Atomic Ranch, or it's on the magazine,

0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:22.279
<v Speaker 2>the internet magazine Atomic Ranch. But that kind of like

0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:25.640
<v Speaker 2>mid century space age house he refurbished, and he has

0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:30.440
<v Speaker 2>that orval Reddenbocker knockoff. It's actually a knockoff of the

0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Eames lounge. He has it, and he said they eat

0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:34.040
<v Speaker 2>popcorn in it.

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:34.640
<v Speaker 1>Amazing.

0:36:34.840 --> 0:36:36.640
<v Speaker 2>I think so too, And I don't know why. I

0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:38.279
<v Speaker 2>don't even know how I first heard about it, but

0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:40.840
<v Speaker 2>I covet that particular chair. It's great.

0:36:41.840 --> 0:36:45.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, one day, Josh, I'm gonna really roode for

0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:46.160
<v Speaker 1>you to get that chair.

0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. I can't wait till that day starts. Let's

0:36:51.040 --> 0:36:53.880
<v Speaker 2>talk about that chair a little bit. Oh sure, okay,

0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:59.040
<v Speaker 2>well here I go. So the chair itself was different.

0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:00.840
<v Speaker 2>It was multiplied with like you said, but it was

0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:03.000
<v Speaker 2>upholstered in leather like I think also you said. But

0:37:03.040 --> 0:37:06.480
<v Speaker 2>it was meant to be exceedingly comfortable. And the way

0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 2>that Charles Putt is supposed to have the warm, receptive

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:14.480
<v Speaker 2>look of a well used first Baseman's Myt, which definitely

0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:17.680
<v Speaker 2>gets that across. No, they're super duper comfortable, especially if

0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:22.279
<v Speaker 2>you remind yourself like I'm actually sitting on polster plywood here, right.

0:37:23.480 --> 0:37:26.960
<v Speaker 2>They have become so iconic and so associated with the

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:33.040
<v Speaker 2>mid century modern aesthetic, and in particular it's almost like

0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:36.680
<v Speaker 2>a signal or a code for someone who is powerful

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:40.840
<v Speaker 2>captain of industry. Like it's like a mover and a

0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:43.440
<v Speaker 2>shaker of that era if you're doing like a period piece,

0:37:43.719 --> 0:37:47.120
<v Speaker 2>so much so that when is it. Matthew Wiener, who

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:54.359
<v Speaker 2>is the showrunner for mad Men Winer weinerslov He said,

0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:57.359
<v Speaker 2>We're not using the Eames lounge in our show. It's

0:37:57.440 --> 0:38:00.560
<v Speaker 2>just such a cliche. It shows up everywhere, and mad

0:38:00.600 --> 0:38:02.279
<v Speaker 2>Men is like, of course it's going to show up

0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:04.839
<v Speaker 2>in mad Men. So was he very wisely was like, Nope,

0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:07.160
<v Speaker 2>we're not doing that. But he went with a different

0:38:07.200 --> 0:38:11.799
<v Speaker 2>Eam set, the Emes Aluminum group, which is equally cool.

0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:12.839
<v Speaker 1>But in a different way.

0:38:13.360 --> 0:38:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I definitely like the other one better. But this

0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:19.000
<v Speaker 1>was more of an office chair. You've seen it before

0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:21.719
<v Speaker 1>as well, no padding on the arms, but it was

0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:27.960
<v Speaker 1>it's like a ribbed, ribbed leather. I promise you look

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:30.400
<v Speaker 1>this thing up and you'll go, oh, that thing exactly

0:38:30.680 --> 0:38:33.480
<v Speaker 1>that held Don Draper's butt for however many years.

0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:36.719
<v Speaker 2>And also, I mean, depending on how hip your workplaces,

0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:39.800
<v Speaker 2>you might have a knockoff of this in your office.

0:38:39.840 --> 0:38:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Like it's really that's something that happens in design a lot.

0:38:43.800 --> 0:38:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Somebody comes up with an iconic design and then everybody

0:38:47.440 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 2>rips it off. That's just the part of the industry.

0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:57.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all right, I feel like that's another breakpoint. Yeah yeah,

0:38:57.480 --> 0:38:59.960
<v Speaker 1>all right, hepcat. We're going to be right back at

0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:17.040
<v Speaker 1>this and josh will pick up after the break with toys,

0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:22.200
<v Speaker 1>learn and stuff with Joshua John stuff.

0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:38.200
<v Speaker 3>You shine up, all right, Chuck.

0:39:38.480 --> 0:39:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk toys, because, like I said, they considered play

0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:45.040
<v Speaker 2>serious business because of what it could do to unlock you.

0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:48.560
<v Speaker 2>And they were playful people for sure. Yeah, before we

0:39:48.840 --> 0:39:51.560
<v Speaker 2>talk about toys, let's put that on the back burner

0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:54.560
<v Speaker 2>for a second and talk about their architecture work, because

0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:58.160
<v Speaker 2>remember Charles was a crypto pseudo architect for a while,

0:39:58.360 --> 0:40:01.759
<v Speaker 2>an outlaw architect, I guess, yeah, And this was an

0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:07.319
<v Speaker 2>age where you could work with other amazing designers in architects.

0:40:07.640 --> 0:40:11.920
<v Speaker 2>And remember they were friends already with aerosaranin So they

0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:15.320
<v Speaker 2>worked with him on at least one house called case

0:40:15.600 --> 0:40:19.360
<v Speaker 2>Study House number nine, and that's a pretty famous house,

0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:22.479
<v Speaker 2>but it is nothing compared to Case Study House number eight,

0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:25.640
<v Speaker 2>which is in fact the house that Ray and Charles

0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:27.799
<v Speaker 2>Eames designed and ended up living in.

0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the case Study Houses. We'll say what it is.

0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:34.680
<v Speaker 1>But I've had this on my list for like ten

0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:35.319
<v Speaker 1>years to do.

0:40:35.520 --> 0:40:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh it's so neat.

0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:37.239
<v Speaker 3>Took it in.

0:40:37.840 --> 0:40:40.440
<v Speaker 1>It's beautiful, But what to that house?

0:40:40.600 --> 0:40:41.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really neat.

0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:46.480
<v Speaker 1>But the Case Study program was a program sponsored by

0:40:46.600 --> 0:40:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Art and Architecture magazine where they built these houses. I

0:40:52.520 --> 0:40:55.759
<v Speaker 1>think there were thirty six designs, not just the Eames,

0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:59.040
<v Speaker 1>all sorts of architects. Right over the course of like

0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:03.680
<v Speaker 1>twenty one years, they built twenty six of these houses,

0:41:04.120 --> 0:41:08.840
<v Speaker 1>and eighteen of them are still as is a handful

0:41:08.880 --> 0:41:12.560
<v Speaker 1>of being destroyed, which is awful. Yea, and maybe more

0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:15.160
<v Speaker 1>awful a handful of them when you look up, like

0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:22.040
<v Speaker 1>the list says something like, you know, renovated. I'm paraphrasing

0:41:22.040 --> 0:41:25.359
<v Speaker 1>to a country renovated so much that you can't even

0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:26.560
<v Speaker 1>tell it's what it was.

0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha, Yeah, for sure, But we're going.

0:41:29.120 --> 0:41:31.200
<v Speaker 1>To do one on the case study houses in that program.

0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:33.879
<v Speaker 1>It was pretty amazing. But out of this came case

0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Study eight, where like you said, the Ames lived in

0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:40.560
<v Speaker 1>the Pacific Palisades. It was initially called the Bridge House

0:41:40.640 --> 0:41:43.880
<v Speaker 1>because it was going to be cantilevered out over this

0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:46.839
<v Speaker 1>big grassy meadow toward the sea because you could see

0:41:46.840 --> 0:41:50.480
<v Speaker 1>the ocean there. And Charles at one point reconsidered along

0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:52.439
<v Speaker 1>with Ray, and they said, hey, we're doing that thing

0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:55.920
<v Speaker 1>that you're not supposed to do an architecture, which is

0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:59.719
<v Speaker 1>take this beautiful area and just like plunk a house

0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:02.319
<v Speaker 1>down in the middle of it. And he fell in

0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:05.239
<v Speaker 1>love with that meadow and he decided to change the

0:42:05.280 --> 0:42:07.839
<v Speaker 1>complete design of it instead of cantilevering it out over

0:42:07.840 --> 0:42:11.920
<v Speaker 1>this meadow, make the meadow this big beautiful front yard basically,

0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:14.759
<v Speaker 1>and they came up with they scrapped the Ridge House

0:42:14.800 --> 0:42:17.680
<v Speaker 1>and came up with the design for number eight, which

0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:24.120
<v Speaker 1>was this very beautiful, square, flat roofed, colorful, amazing house.

0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So apparently Ray was a fan of Mandria. And

0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:31.239
<v Speaker 2>you can tell because these are two giant squares made

0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:34.480
<v Speaker 2>of glass and steel, and then they have panels in

0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:37.600
<v Speaker 2>some places where you might have a window, and those

0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:40.200
<v Speaker 2>panels would be colored like yellow or blue or red

0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:44.720
<v Speaker 2>or white like a Mandria painting. But they were the ones.

0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:46.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if this house is the one that

0:42:46.640 --> 0:42:51.400
<v Speaker 2>introduced it. It's possible. The idea of like soaring ceilings,

0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:55.279
<v Speaker 2>of huge open space floor plans, it was like a

0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:58.839
<v Speaker 2>it's a modernist masterpiece. But one of the things that's

0:42:58.840 --> 0:43:03.960
<v Speaker 2>so great about it is that Ray decorated it to

0:43:04.040 --> 0:43:10.279
<v Speaker 2>the hilt with art objects, gifts from friends, paintings, sculptures,

0:43:10.360 --> 0:43:14.600
<v Speaker 2>folk art, weavings, everything you can think of. It was

0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:18.280
<v Speaker 2>just such a busy room. There's like leopard skin rugs

0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:22.360
<v Speaker 2>and just weird stuff everywhere. And this was entirely counter

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:24.160
<v Speaker 2>to the trend at the time, which was if you

0:43:24.239 --> 0:43:27.399
<v Speaker 2>were modernist, you're also minimalist. There in yeah, you can't

0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:30.120
<v Speaker 2>extract one from the other, and she did, and that

0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:33.080
<v Speaker 2>was a huge contribution to modernism because a lot of

0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:36.520
<v Speaker 2>people are turned off, including me, are turned off by minimalism, like,

0:43:36.640 --> 0:43:39.359
<v Speaker 2>can't stand it. It's an awful, awful way to live,

0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:41.640
<v Speaker 2>I think, And she was like, hey, you can be

0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:46.680
<v Speaker 2>modernists and not be minimalist, you know. So she's credited

0:43:46.760 --> 0:43:51.120
<v Speaker 2>with that as being probably her greatest contribution, solo contribution

0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:55.000
<v Speaker 2>to modernism is the design choices she made in that house.

0:43:55.600 --> 0:43:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, whimsical and warm. I love it. It's pretty amazing.

0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Like you said, they all did case study house number

0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:05.800
<v Speaker 1>nine on the same lot as number eight. Intinda himself

0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:09.799
<v Speaker 1>would live in number nine, and he also designed his

0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:12.640
<v Speaker 1>old buddy Billy Wilder's house. He said, Hey, I love

0:44:12.680 --> 0:44:16.560
<v Speaker 1>that that flat board that you gussied up for me.

0:44:17.320 --> 0:44:20.480
<v Speaker 1>Can you make me a flat house? And he said sure.

0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:24.000
<v Speaker 1>And so this house in Beverly Hills, where Billy Wilder

0:44:24.000 --> 0:44:28.080
<v Speaker 1>and his wife Audrey Young lived, is another gorgeous, you know,

0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:32.040
<v Speaker 1>flat roofed, sort of square, boxy, brilliant design.

0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's very cool. And they also planned eucalyptus trees

0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:38.640
<v Speaker 2>all around it, and I think at least on one

0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:41.399
<v Speaker 2>of them, there's swings that you can swing on when

0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:44.440
<v Speaker 2>you're there. When we went, we didn't we just showed up.

0:44:44.480 --> 0:44:46.319
<v Speaker 2>We didn't make reservations and there was no one there,

0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:48.879
<v Speaker 2>so we had the place to ourselves. We weren't able

0:44:48.920 --> 0:44:50.799
<v Speaker 2>to go inside, but you know, we peeked in the

0:44:50.800 --> 0:44:51.560
<v Speaker 2>windows and all that.

0:44:51.880 --> 0:44:53.640
<v Speaker 1>It's all windows, pretty the whole thing.

0:44:53.680 --> 0:44:56.360
<v Speaker 2>I know, you really could, he think though, it's definitely

0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:58.000
<v Speaker 2>worth visiting, Chuck, I think you'd love it.

0:44:58.480 --> 0:45:00.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh totally. Is there so many things in LA that

0:45:00.800 --> 0:45:03.680
<v Speaker 1>I was either unaware of or too broke to do that.

0:45:04.320 --> 0:45:06.000
<v Speaker 1>I try to do those things when I go back now.

0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Nice.

0:45:07.400 --> 0:45:10.960
<v Speaker 1>So Ray is busy also working on side gigs, designing

0:45:11.360 --> 0:45:15.520
<v Speaker 1>textiles and fabrics and patterns. A couple of her most

0:45:15.520 --> 0:45:19.960
<v Speaker 1>famous ones that Waverley Products picked up is called c

0:45:20.200 --> 0:45:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Things Sea Things, which is whimsical and fun, just like

0:45:25.040 --> 0:45:27.800
<v Speaker 1>she was a little starfish and sort of amba like things.

0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:31.560
<v Speaker 1>And then she was very famous for something you still

0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:34.840
<v Speaker 1>see a lot today called the Emes Dots, which is

0:45:34.880 --> 0:45:40.040
<v Speaker 1>this design that are dots with interconnected lines. It's simple stuff,

0:45:40.080 --> 0:45:40.760
<v Speaker 1>but iconic.

0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:44.200
<v Speaker 2>Yes, if you're into west Elm stuff, you have seen

0:45:44.239 --> 0:45:48.840
<v Speaker 2>this design before or some version of it for sure. Yeah.

0:45:48.880 --> 0:45:51.959
<v Speaker 2>So toys, toys, I think it's time to talk about

0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 2>toys in particular. They had one called the Toy Yeah,

0:45:56.000 --> 0:45:59.000
<v Speaker 2>and it was a set of like these vinyl panels

0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:02.239
<v Speaker 2>that you would frame with dowels and then connect to

0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:06.840
<v Speaker 2>other panels with other dowels, and they were either square

0:46:06.960 --> 0:46:11.960
<v Speaker 2>or triangle. I think they're about three feet across, and

0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:14.359
<v Speaker 2>the whole point of it was you can build all

0:46:14.400 --> 0:46:16.520
<v Speaker 2>sorts of structures out of it. You can use it

0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:18.799
<v Speaker 2>to build the wings of a theater and pretend you're

0:46:18.840 --> 0:46:21.960
<v Speaker 2>on a stage like it was. You were intended to

0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:25.880
<v Speaker 2>use your imagination, even though in the instructions it shows

0:46:25.920 --> 0:46:28.000
<v Speaker 2>you some ideas and how to build some stuff. But

0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:31.400
<v Speaker 2>it was a toy for everybody, like for all ages.

0:46:31.760 --> 0:46:33.319
<v Speaker 2>And that was I think the first one they came

0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:33.719
<v Speaker 2>up with.

0:46:34.239 --> 0:46:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was in fifty one. They had the House

0:46:37.200 --> 0:46:41.239
<v Speaker 1>of Cards as well, which is produced in fifty two.

0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:44.120
<v Speaker 1>It's a deck of cards. The patterns on them are beautiful.

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:47.080
<v Speaker 1>All the cards are different things. It's not like just

0:46:47.400 --> 0:46:50.800
<v Speaker 1>a single pattern deck. But they had notches. It's a house,

0:46:51.200 --> 0:46:53.279
<v Speaker 1>you build it, so they had notcha so you could

0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:58.160
<v Speaker 1>build it into these very emsy looking square structures the

0:46:58.239 --> 0:47:01.040
<v Speaker 1>way the nachas are built. And I was like, I'm

0:47:01.040 --> 0:47:04.759
<v Speaker 1>gonna buy one of those from myle pal Josh, oh thanks.

0:47:04.920 --> 0:47:08.200
<v Speaker 1>I went to It's not coming Dowork. Okay, I went

0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:12.360
<v Speaker 1>to Etsy. That original back is thirty two hundred bucks.

0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:15.960
<v Speaker 1>So amen, that's a lot of money for a deck

0:47:15.960 --> 0:47:16.279
<v Speaker 1>of cards.

0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, it so okay, well, then you can get

0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:20.600
<v Speaker 2>me one of their musical towers instead.

0:47:21.400 --> 0:47:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Ah. Yes, they were very well known for this being

0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:27.160
<v Speaker 1>in their office. Is still there today. It is a

0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:31.279
<v Speaker 1>vertical xylophone. Yeah, and you drop a ball down it, yeah,

0:47:31.320 --> 0:47:34.240
<v Speaker 1>like plink and yeah, and it just sort of bounces

0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:36.239
<v Speaker 1>its way down, hitting different notes on the way down,

0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:37.239
<v Speaker 1>which is just super fun.

0:47:37.320 --> 0:47:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And all the notes are rearrangeable too, which is

0:47:39.560 --> 0:47:41.799
<v Speaker 2>just sweet. There's only three of them in existence, so

0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:43.759
<v Speaker 2>I presume it might even be more than a House

0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:44.560
<v Speaker 2>of cards toy.

0:47:45.160 --> 0:47:45.840
<v Speaker 1>You can buy me that.

0:47:46.400 --> 0:47:51.680
<v Speaker 2>So in addition to toys to furniture, the Emes were

0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:54.600
<v Speaker 2>they were just creative, creative people through and through, and

0:47:54.640 --> 0:47:57.600
<v Speaker 2>they saw design everywhere. They had a collection of almost

0:47:57.600 --> 0:48:01.240
<v Speaker 2>a quarter of a million slides, and they would create

0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:05.640
<v Speaker 2>these slide show or multimedia presentations juxtaposing like a shell

0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:09.719
<v Speaker 2>with like a an interstate overpass and be like, look

0:48:09.719 --> 0:48:13.040
<v Speaker 2>at how similar this is. They were just into all

0:48:13.080 --> 0:48:15.080
<v Speaker 2>that kind of stuff. And so they've found a lot

0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:18.600
<v Speaker 2>of full film in like another phase, kind of like

0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:22.360
<v Speaker 2>the end phase of their career together, which was coming

0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:28.040
<v Speaker 2>up with movies, exhibits and presentations essentially.

0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they found work in a few different ways.

0:48:32.600 --> 0:48:36.840
<v Speaker 1>They ended up being sponsored or I guess hired by corporations.

0:48:37.080 --> 0:48:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Notably IBM was one of them to create you know,

0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:43.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of industrial films here and there, multi media projects.

0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:46.120
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like, you know, how you can get your

0:48:46.239 --> 0:48:50.080
<v Speaker 1>hand caught in a printer or anything like that. All

0:48:50.160 --> 0:48:53.440
<v Speaker 1>kinds of different stuff, very creative things. One of the

0:48:53.440 --> 0:48:57.919
<v Speaker 1>most famous films they made, probably the most famous, it's

0:48:57.960 --> 0:49:01.080
<v Speaker 1>called Powers of Ten. I did a prototype film in

0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:04.400
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty eight called a rough sketch for a proposed

0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:07.120
<v Speaker 1>film dealing with the powers of ten and the relative

0:49:07.120 --> 0:49:10.080
<v Speaker 1>size of things in the universe, shot at Miami in

0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:12.600
<v Speaker 1>black and white, and then made a final version. They

0:49:12.640 --> 0:49:14.279
<v Speaker 1>worked on this thing for a long time. It's based

0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:18.160
<v Speaker 1>on a book by a Dutch Dutch teacher named Keys

0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Boca called Cosmic View, Colan the Universe and forty Jumps.

0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:25.160
<v Speaker 1>But the final version they shot on the shores of

0:49:25.239 --> 0:49:28.239
<v Speaker 1>Lake Erie. I'm sorry, boy, I almost screwed that one

0:49:28.320 --> 0:49:33.239
<v Speaker 1>up Lake Michigan in Chicago. The final version was in

0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:35.520
<v Speaker 1>seventy seven. It was in color. It was called Powers

0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:41.080
<v Speaker 1>of Ten colon a film dealing with the relative size

0:49:41.080 --> 0:49:43.759
<v Speaker 1>of things in the universe. And what that all means

0:49:43.840 --> 0:49:46.200
<v Speaker 1>is they start with a simple overhead shot of this

0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:50.319
<v Speaker 1>couple next to Lake Michigan having a picnic, and then

0:49:50.360 --> 0:49:54.600
<v Speaker 1>it just keeps zooming back by Powers of ten, narrated

0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:58.319
<v Speaker 1>the whole time by a gentleman MIT physics professor named

0:49:58.320 --> 0:50:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Philip Morrison and Cameron Crow, the director very much inspired

0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:07.960
<v Speaker 1>by Billy Wilder. He opens Jerry Maguire with a very

0:50:08.000 --> 0:50:11.839
<v Speaker 1>similar thing. And I guarantee you he took this from

0:50:11.840 --> 0:50:12.880
<v Speaker 1>the EMES project.

0:50:12.920 --> 0:50:16.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm sure like it was. Yeah, it's just

0:50:16.840 --> 0:50:18.759
<v Speaker 2>neat and if you think of it, you're like, yeah,

0:50:18.800 --> 0:50:21.360
<v Speaker 2>of course, it's like somebody was going to stumble on

0:50:21.440 --> 0:50:23.680
<v Speaker 2>this sooner or later. But I don't know how much

0:50:23.760 --> 0:50:26.880
<v Speaker 2>that is just because they put it out there initially.

0:50:27.120 --> 0:50:29.600
<v Speaker 2>But they would zoom out, I think, all the way

0:50:29.680 --> 0:50:32.720
<v Speaker 2>until it was like ten to the tenth power, fifteenth

0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:36.759
<v Speaker 2>power something like that. That is, so the entire known

0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:38.960
<v Speaker 2>universe was encompassed and then zoomed all the way in

0:50:39.400 --> 0:50:41.960
<v Speaker 2>back to that guy laying on a picnic blanket in

0:50:42.040 --> 0:50:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Chicago and then threw his skin into like a proton

0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:46.960
<v Speaker 2>and a carbon atom.

0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:50.600
<v Speaker 1>I think, yeah, super cool. It's nine minutes on YouTube.

0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:52.560
<v Speaker 1>It's very very much worth watching it.

0:50:52.719 --> 0:50:54.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you could watch it ten times in an hour

0:50:54.840 --> 0:50:58.759
<v Speaker 2>and a half if you wanted to. Yeah, but it

0:50:58.840 --> 0:51:00.759
<v Speaker 2>is very cool and it is YouTube, and it is

0:51:00.800 --> 0:51:03.319
<v Speaker 2>definitely worth watching. And that's definitely what they were known for.

0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:05.560
<v Speaker 2>But they made I think one hundred and twenty five films,

0:51:05.840 --> 0:51:08.080
<v Speaker 2>and like I said, they made exhibits for museums, some

0:51:08.120 --> 0:51:11.200
<v Speaker 2>of which are still around right now. They just did

0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:13.359
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of really cool things, like if they had

0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:17.120
<v Speaker 2>an idea, they would explore any medium that they thought

0:51:17.200 --> 0:51:19.480
<v Speaker 2>best got it across. They were just not afraid of

0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:24.239
<v Speaker 2>taking risks. And I didn't realize that about them. I

0:51:24.600 --> 0:51:26.879
<v Speaker 2>didn't know anything about until I met you mean, then

0:51:26.920 --> 0:51:30.080
<v Speaker 2>I started to learn about, you know, furniture design and

0:51:30.120 --> 0:51:32.920
<v Speaker 2>all that, and then from researching this, I got to

0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:35.600
<v Speaker 2>know them better. And I just I just think there

0:51:36.160 --> 0:51:38.279
<v Speaker 2>I admire them a lot more than I did before

0:51:38.280 --> 0:51:42.160
<v Speaker 2>I started researching this, just because they were so varied

0:51:42.200 --> 0:51:44.359
<v Speaker 2>in their pursuits. I just think they're neat.

0:51:45.320 --> 0:51:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, And you know, it was a great love

0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:51.400
<v Speaker 1>story on one hand, but we do need to just

0:51:51.440 --> 0:51:55.360
<v Speaker 1>sort of mention kind of the darker side, which is

0:51:55.480 --> 0:51:56.960
<v Speaker 1>when I was talking to you about this, you made

0:51:56.960 --> 0:52:01.239
<v Speaker 1>a joke about like people buried in their basement or

0:52:01.280 --> 0:52:05.879
<v Speaker 1>something not that dark. Okay, but you know, when you

0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:10.160
<v Speaker 1>run a design concern, your name is the one that's

0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:14.160
<v Speaker 1>on it. Sometimes it was Charles and Ray, usually just Charles,

0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:16.480
<v Speaker 1>but there they had a whole team of people that

0:52:16.600 --> 0:52:20.160
<v Speaker 1>worked on this stuff, these young designers that work for

0:52:20.320 --> 0:52:22.360
<v Speaker 1>them that you know, they never got any credit, and

0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:25.640
<v Speaker 1>they kind of talked about that. Some people felt exploited.

0:52:26.719 --> 0:52:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Some were like, yeah, we were exploited, but we also

0:52:29.719 --> 0:52:33.759
<v Speaker 1>exploited their name because we worked for the hottest design firm.

0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:35.640
<v Speaker 1>And it was sort of a give and take. And

0:52:35.680 --> 0:52:38.400
<v Speaker 1>that's just sort of the deal. Your name doesn't go

0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:41.200
<v Speaker 1>up there if you're on the team that creates the

0:52:41.280 --> 0:52:44.279
<v Speaker 1>thing that the person whose name is on the you know,

0:52:44.719 --> 0:52:47.120
<v Speaker 1>the placard on the office door, they're they're going to

0:52:47.200 --> 0:52:50.000
<v Speaker 1>get the credit still happens a lot. People are better

0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:53.799
<v Speaker 1>these days about giving credit down to staff. Back then,

0:52:53.880 --> 0:52:56.600
<v Speaker 1>not so much. And then the other thing is Charles

0:52:57.080 --> 0:53:02.360
<v Speaker 1>very very sadly had some affairs. Notably had a pretty

0:53:03.040 --> 0:53:06.520
<v Speaker 1>pretty heavy love affair with a woman named Judith Wexler,

0:53:07.080 --> 0:53:10.520
<v Speaker 1>who he you know, he was so far into it

0:53:10.560 --> 0:53:12.399
<v Speaker 1>that he was like, I want to sell nine oh one,

0:53:13.000 --> 0:53:15.400
<v Speaker 1>I want to get divorced, I want to move to

0:53:15.440 --> 0:53:17.160
<v Speaker 1>New York, I want to marry you. I want to

0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:20.760
<v Speaker 1>have a baby. And she broke it off because she said,

0:53:20.800 --> 0:53:24.000
<v Speaker 1>you couldn't do that to Ray, because they were friends

0:53:24.000 --> 0:53:24.440
<v Speaker 1>as well.

0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Man the Middle century.

0:53:27.400 --> 0:53:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, Ray knew about the stuff. It was

0:53:29.440 --> 0:53:34.000
<v Speaker 1>a time where divorce wasn't as popular and it was

0:53:34.040 --> 0:53:36.240
<v Speaker 1>tough for her. She apparently dealt with it very privately.

0:53:36.400 --> 0:53:39.000
<v Speaker 1>But you know they stuck together until the end.

0:53:39.160 --> 0:53:42.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, man, Yeah, wow, I didn't know about that either.

0:53:43.040 --> 0:53:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but worth mentioning until you know. Charles died in

0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:48.080
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy eight.

0:53:48.480 --> 0:53:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Something sweet about that is Ray died exactly a

0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:57.000
<v Speaker 2>decade later, on August twenty first, nineteen eighty eight. And

0:53:57.040 --> 0:54:00.680
<v Speaker 2>she spent that decade basically archiving in or organizing and

0:54:00.760 --> 0:54:03.040
<v Speaker 2>documenting all the work they did together. And then I

0:54:03.080 --> 0:54:05.560
<v Speaker 2>guess she realized or felt like her work was done

0:54:05.560 --> 0:54:09.359
<v Speaker 2>and said, Ray out.

0:54:10.160 --> 0:54:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. She passed from cancer. He died of a heart

0:54:12.640 --> 0:54:17.000
<v Speaker 1>attack on a consulting trip in Saint Louis. And you know,

0:54:17.040 --> 0:54:20.080
<v Speaker 1>they were very beloved. The people. He didn't have any employees.

0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:23.600
<v Speaker 1>It sounded like they didn't absolutely love them. I think

0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:25.560
<v Speaker 1>some of them were a little salty about credit here

0:54:25.600 --> 0:54:28.160
<v Speaker 1>and there, But to a person, they were all like

0:54:28.440 --> 0:54:31.520
<v Speaker 1>it was a magical time. They were magical people, and

0:54:31.600 --> 0:54:33.800
<v Speaker 1>it was just a great thing all the way around.

0:54:33.920 --> 0:54:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm definitely I'm glad we included the dark side.

0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Then you can't white watch that stuff.

0:54:38.680 --> 0:54:42.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's true. You got anything else, Chuck.

0:54:42.320 --> 0:54:45.960
<v Speaker 1>I got nothing else. Look forward to case study House podcasts.

0:54:46.040 --> 0:54:48.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, podcasts are short stuff.

0:54:49.320 --> 0:54:51.839
<v Speaker 1>I think I think we could probably stretch that one

0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:55.279
<v Speaker 1>out to a full no problem, because hey, what's better

0:54:55.320 --> 0:54:58.520
<v Speaker 1>than sitting around and listening to a show described the

0:54:58.560 --> 0:55:01.320
<v Speaker 1>way something looks?

0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:04.439
<v Speaker 2>Do it? And since Chuck and I just negotiated whether

0:55:04.520 --> 0:55:06.520
<v Speaker 2>that episode would be a short stuff or a full

0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:08.919
<v Speaker 2>length episode, it's time for listener mail.

0:55:11.239 --> 0:55:14.280
<v Speaker 1>All right, I'm going to call this a reminder to Sandwich.

0:55:14.360 --> 0:55:17.120
<v Speaker 1>This is from Aaron Burke. Hey, guys, recently found your show.

0:55:17.600 --> 0:55:19.680
<v Speaker 1>I've gotten into it. I started to listen to the

0:55:19.719 --> 0:55:21.919
<v Speaker 1>most recent and then I thought, well, maybe I should

0:55:21.960 --> 0:55:25.040
<v Speaker 1>have the whole experience and start at the beginning. These

0:55:25.080 --> 0:55:27.560
<v Speaker 1>early episodes are a little unsatisfying because I know the

0:55:27.640 --> 0:55:31.280
<v Speaker 1>finely tuned show that you've achieved after fifteen hundred episodes.

0:55:31.719 --> 0:55:34.720
<v Speaker 1>My question is, what would you recommend for new listeners.

0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Start at the beginning, work backwards, go to episode one

0:55:37.280 --> 0:55:40.000
<v Speaker 1>seventy seven as of now, I'm starting at day one,

0:55:40.440 --> 0:55:43.239
<v Speaker 1>and that is from Aaron Burke and Erin. I let

0:55:43.239 --> 0:55:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Aaron know which episode this is going to be on

0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:49.759
<v Speaker 1>so he could hear it. But what we recommend is sandwiching.

0:55:50.000 --> 0:55:53.600
<v Speaker 1>That is, listen to the latest one and then listen

0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to the earliest one, and then work forwards and backwards

0:55:58.000 --> 0:56:01.560
<v Speaker 1>until you meet in the middle. For the reasons of

0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:04.839
<v Speaker 1>compare and contrast. It's fun to hear the show now

0:56:04.880 --> 0:56:07.080
<v Speaker 1>and how much has changed, but also you don't want

0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:09.480
<v Speaker 1>to miss out on announcements and live show stuff and

0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:14.600
<v Speaker 1>you know changes that happen, although there's really not many.

0:56:14.840 --> 0:56:18.240
<v Speaker 2>No, no, there's no changes whatsoever these days.

0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:20.319
<v Speaker 1>But we think the sandwich method is pretty fun.

0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's been the recommended version or method for the

0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:25.520
<v Speaker 2>whole time, I think.

0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Essentially, right, yeah, but you know, do it how you want.

0:56:28.080 --> 0:56:29.080
<v Speaker 1>That's what we think.

0:56:29.280 --> 0:56:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Sure, Yeah, each their own, right.

0:56:31.760 --> 0:56:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So who is that Aaron Burke.

0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Aaron, however, you listen to the entire catalog of Stuff

0:56:39.880 --> 0:56:42.440
<v Speaker 2>you Should Know, we hope you enjoy every single minute

0:56:42.440 --> 0:56:44.360
<v Speaker 2>of it. And if you want to be like Aaron

0:56:44.400 --> 0:56:46.040
<v Speaker 2>and get in touch with us and ask us for

0:56:46.080 --> 0:56:49.359
<v Speaker 2>some advice of some sort, do it. You can send

0:56:49.360 --> 0:56:56.360
<v Speaker 2>it in an email to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

0:56:56.520 --> 0:56:58.839
<v Speaker 2>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:56:59.280 --> 0:57:02.520
<v Speaker 1>For more, podcast to my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.