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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Mark

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Speaker 1: Moss Show, where we talk about the decentralized revolution each

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Speaker 1: and every week, of course, talking about the way the

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Speaker 1: world is changing as we look at it through the

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Speaker 1: lens of politics, finance, and technology, and of course that

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Speaker 1: technology being bitcoin, the decentralized technology that of course, technology

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Speaker 1: always changes the world, you know. I try to bring

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Speaker 1: to you some you know, educational pieces to help you

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Speaker 1: see the world a little bit differently, some of the

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Speaker 1: latest breaking news, and of course some new unique perspectives

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Speaker 1: from some different guests. And so I have a returning guest,

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Speaker 1: my good friend Alex S. Fetzky. He's in the studio

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Speaker 1: with me today, Alex, and you can find him on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Sfetzky Rights. And we wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: um as I said, politics, finance and technology, and really

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Speaker 1: I'm always interested in the convergence of those three, and

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Speaker 1: of course they all drive each other. Technology seems to

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Speaker 1: be the big driver of of change, but politics and

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Speaker 1: finance come together. And Alex, I know you've been working

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Speaker 1: on a lot of Austrian economics, and Austrian economics is

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Speaker 1: a a school of thought, a school of thought of

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Speaker 1: economics and it used to be a big school of

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Speaker 1: thought of economics. It's not really taught anymore. I've talked

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Speaker 1: to many people who have graduated in the United States

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Speaker 1: from UH with with MBA's and pH ds in economics

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Speaker 1: who have never even heard or never heard of Austrian

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Speaker 1: economics while they were in school. Amazingly. Um, but give

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Speaker 1: us some of the background on you know, where it

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Speaker 1: came from, uh and and kind of how Austrian economics emerged,

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Speaker 1: and we'll kind of walk through that. Cool cool, cool,

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Speaker 1: cool Mark. Thank you for having me back. First of all, uh,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe a good place to stought. This is sort

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Speaker 1: of a little bit of background. I've been working on

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Speaker 1: a publication for a number of years now called The

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin Times and the latest edition so uh, I was

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Speaker 1: about to say this year's edition, but we're actually so

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Speaker 1: the edition was which just came out, actually came out

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Speaker 1: of a Christmas is the Austrianan issue where I brought

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Speaker 1: together who some some of who I think are the

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Speaker 1: best minds in and around bitcoin, So Safety Namos, who

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Speaker 1: wrote the Bitcoin standard, Michael Goldstein, who was one of

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Speaker 1: the people actually inspired him to get into bitcoin, Pierre Rochard,

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Speaker 1: Raheem Tugger out a gun who's actually a direct student

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Speaker 1: of hans Herman Hopper, and he's the last he's the

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Speaker 1: last Austrian economist who's teaching in the direct Austrian School

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Speaker 1: in Austria. UM. And he was actually a physicist turned

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Speaker 1: Austrian economists. So he wrote the piece in there. And

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Speaker 1: Conrad Graff, who's who's quite a well known early bitcoin

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Speaker 1: or kind of tied the concepts of bitcoin and Austrian

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Speaker 1: economics together. UM. And anyway, I brought these people together

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Speaker 1: to write a series of pieces, and one of them

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Speaker 1: in there was actually written by Rahim hans Herman Hopper's student,

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Speaker 1: and it's called from Bitcoin to the Austrian School and

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Speaker 1: from the Austrian School to Bitcoin, and he talks a

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Speaker 1: little bit about like why this school of economics is

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Speaker 1: called Austrian economics. It's not because it's like Austrian. It

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Speaker 1: just so happened that the founding fathers of this school

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Speaker 1: of thought basically sort of came out during what's kind

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Speaker 1: of known but not very well known as the Austrian Renaissance,

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Speaker 1: which was kind of around like late eighteen hundred's early

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Speaker 1: nine hundreds. And this is sort of you know, the

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Speaker 1: two pioneering or two sort of founding fathers of this

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Speaker 1: Austrians school of thought or or this economic school of

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Speaker 1: thought happened to be Carmengo and Ludwig Vonsis and and

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Speaker 1: obviously they're both Austrians. So so that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: inspired the nomenclature around why we call it that. But

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Speaker 1: but essentially, like I kind of call it and wen't

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Speaker 1: weren't weren't weren't weren't a lot of them kind of

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Speaker 1: huddled up in Austria at the time, and they kind

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Speaker 1: of they kind of had this like a little grouping

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Speaker 1: of those people there in Austria and they all kind

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Speaker 1: of use these ideas and develop them together. Yeah. Absolutely so,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of like think of Silicon Valley, right,

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Speaker 1: why do we have you know, Facebook and all these

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Speaker 1: sort of technologies come out of there, you know, like

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Speaker 1: you had the Xerox park, you had Apple, you had Intel,

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Speaker 1: you had sort of like a critical mass of that

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Speaker 1: type of thinking. So Vienna back in the late eighteen

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Speaker 1: hundreds early nine was kind of like a melting pot

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Speaker 1: for people that were sort of thinking about the world

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Speaker 1: in a way which where he makes a really good

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Speaker 1: argument in the in the piece where he calls it

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Speaker 1: a bottom up Enlightenment versus what you sort of had

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Speaker 1: in England and France at the time, which was a

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Speaker 1: top down kind of enforced Enlightenment, which which is really

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Speaker 1: interesting because we ended up getting out of France and

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Speaker 1: England was democracy and socialism, um, and what you sort

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Speaker 1: of had out of this kind of bottom up Enlightenment

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Speaker 1: that came out of Austria, and also you know, it's

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Speaker 1: predecessor was actually the Scottish Enlightenment, where you know, the

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Speaker 1: kind of thinkers that came out of that were you know,

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Speaker 1: Edmund Burke and Adam Smith, you know, Wealth of Nations

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Speaker 1: and people like that. So it's quite interesting sort of

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Speaker 1: the cultures and the similarities between those sort of decentralized, emergent,

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Speaker 1: bottom up kind of philosophies and thinkings and Enlightenment periods

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Speaker 1: versus these top down ones that were like the French

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Speaker 1: and English and what they sort of produced at the

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Speaker 1: other end. So anyway, yeah, as you said, there was this,

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Speaker 1: there was you know, a bunch of students obviously that

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Speaker 1: came after Manga and and mesas, and they were all

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Speaker 1: obviously Austrian because that was the region they were in,

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Speaker 1: and that's really what kind of you know, pioneered that

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Speaker 1: school of thought and hence hence the name. And you

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Speaker 1: know what I was going to say before is I

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Speaker 1: just think of it as natural economics, because that's essentially

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Speaker 1: what it is, you know, it's it's the school of

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Speaker 1: economic thought that says, don't touch things because you're going

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Speaker 1: to break them, because the economic system is more complex

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Speaker 1: than what you know, a single entity or a single

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Speaker 1: mind or a single organization can define it as. So

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Speaker 1: s quit you know, messing with stuff and let the

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Speaker 1: market kind of figure itself out, would you. And I've

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Speaker 1: discussed that nauseaum in the book we wrote, and you know,

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Speaker 1: as you do obviously every week on your podcast. So

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Speaker 1: you know, these guys were the founding fathers, the pioneers

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Speaker 1: of this type of thinking. Yeah, yeah, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it just seems you kind of said naturally, you know,

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Speaker 1: like natural economics. And and obviously Mesas, who is also

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Speaker 1: may be considered one of the godfathers of that school

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Speaker 1: at Busas I wrote the book Human Action, right talking

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Speaker 1: about how human actions drive economics, and so you don't

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Speaker 1: really break the two down, you know, between each other. Um, Now,

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Speaker 1: how would you compare Austrian economics than the traditional or

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Speaker 1: probably the dominant and maybe some people don't even know that,

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Speaker 1: but the dominant economic kind of policy or theory today

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Speaker 1: is Kinsian or has been born off of Kinsey. And

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Speaker 1: it's probably so, you know, uh, morphed and evolved. Now

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Speaker 1: maybe it's not exactly what it's probably way worse than

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Speaker 1: what Kings even had in mind back then. But how

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Speaker 1: would you kind of compare those two? Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: a good way to think about it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean you asked the average person, you know, what,

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Speaker 1: what's the economic model of the world that they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even know who the hell Keens is, you know, they

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Speaker 1: wouldn't know that it Keenes, you know any of that. Right.

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Speaker 1: So the way I kind of think of it as

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Speaker 1: interventionist or non interventionist economics, right, And you know, the

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Speaker 1: interventionist school suggests that, hey, we should play with interest rates,

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Speaker 1: we should you know, uh, you know, make the money

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Speaker 1: supply elastic, you know, we should uh you know, use

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Speaker 1: regulations to try and you know, funnel money and productivity

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Speaker 1: in particular directions. And the non interventionist school, which is

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Speaker 1: the Austrian school, which is what I call the natural school,

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Speaker 1: just says no, don't do any of that, because every

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Speaker 1: time you make one of those decisions, there's one one

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Speaker 1: of those central planning decisions, you have unintended consequences downstream,

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Speaker 1: which then deform the rest of the system, and you

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Speaker 1: will forever be playing not only catch up, but you'll

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Speaker 1: be making everything worse because you have like a you know,

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Speaker 1: one of those magnification effects. You know, you you you

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Speaker 1: push one thing here, intend things happen out there. And

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Speaker 1: that's really the that's really the two big schools of thought.

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Speaker 1: And actually Parker wrote a little bit about He wrote

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Speaker 1: the forward for this Peace Paco Lewis, and he was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, most people just don't they don't get they

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Speaker 1: don't know what Australians or Kinsian or any of that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff. And sometimes, you know, we in the

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Speaker 1: bitcoin space get lost, you know, throwing those terms around,

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Speaker 1: and he was like, look, let's just call it as

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Speaker 1: it is is. You know, one school thinks that the

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Speaker 1: way toward economic prosperity is to have some sort of

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Speaker 1: central planners and managers, and the other school of thought

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Speaker 1: says no, let people at the edges decide and really, um,

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Speaker 1: I guess I think I think there's more more to

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Speaker 1: it than that. I mean, it's certainly is that, certainly right?

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Speaker 1: But how to the how do these central planners manage then? Right?

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Speaker 1: And so not only is it that now they're trying

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Speaker 1: to control and tell people what to do, but they're

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Speaker 1: also increasing or decreasing the money supply. I So that's

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Speaker 1: that could be a big piece of it. So it's

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Speaker 1: not just like, hey, you do this, you do this

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Speaker 1: kind of a thing, but they're but they're in increasing

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Speaker 1: the money. But I was just talking about in a

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Speaker 1: previous segment, Um, Amazon's laying off seventeen thousand people. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's one small drop in the bucket. We

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Speaker 1: gotta take a breakthough. We're gonna come back to this

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Speaker 1: in a minute. If you're just tuning in, you're listening

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Speaker 1: to the Mark Moss Show. I'm in the studio with

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Speaker 1: Alex Sfetzky. We're talking about um economic theory, different economic models. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it gets more exciting. Don't go away, We'll be right

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Speaker 1: back in a minute. All right, welcome back. If you're

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Speaker 1: just tune in, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show.

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Speaker 1: Talking about the decentralized revolution. Right now, I'm in the

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Speaker 1: studio with Alex Spetzky. We're talking about Austrian economics. Um.

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Speaker 1: He's just been written and it just published an entire

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Speaker 1: um magazine kind of article full of articles on Austrian economics.

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Speaker 1: That's called the Bitcoin Times. You can find them on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Sfetzky Rights. But before the break, Alex I

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Speaker 1: was saying, how you know it's it certainly is intervention

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Speaker 1: versus non intervention, but I think it's the way that

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Speaker 1: they intervene as also important where Austrian school believes that

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Speaker 1: at um, you know, all wealth is needs to be

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Speaker 1: created first before it can be consumed, and so we

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Speaker 1: must save our money and then um all then saving

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Speaker 1: or even credit would come from delayed gratification as opposed

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Speaker 1: to Kinsian's interventionists, if you want to call adapt believe

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Speaker 1: in creating or increasing the money supply. And I was

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Speaker 1: just in in in the segment of the hour I

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Speaker 1: did before you jumped up, I was talking about how

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Speaker 1: Amazon's laying off seventeen thousand people and this is happening

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Speaker 1: all over the economy. I mean that was just one

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Speaker 1: data point, but but everywhere is being laid off. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I was just talking about I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: the insanity of this, where um, the the the interventionists,

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Speaker 1: the central banks printed uh tens of trillions of dollars

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Speaker 1: in and UM dump that money into the ecosystem. So

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Speaker 1: then everybody had this extra money. They started going buying

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Speaker 1: all these things, which then broke supply chains down right

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Speaker 1: cause all these problems. And then Amazon is like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: we can't keep up with orders. So they started building

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Speaker 1: all these distribution centers. They started hiring all these people,

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Speaker 1: and then people are like and then they have to

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Speaker 1: pay people increased wages because they're trying to get them

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Speaker 1: to back to work because the interventionists are giving them

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Speaker 1: money to stay at home. So now people are getting

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Speaker 1: hired at Amazon with good wages. They're feeling good. And

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Speaker 1: so then the guy's like, hey, I got hired at Amazon.

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Speaker 1: I have this good career. I'm making good money. Hey, wife,

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Speaker 1: wown you quit your job. Just quit your job. You

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Speaker 1: stay home now, and let's go buy that new car

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Speaker 1: we've always wanted. Right, So like now I've I've planned

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Speaker 1: my whole life based off of that. And then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, the central planners, the interventions want to

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Speaker 1: suck the money out of the economy, and now Amazon

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Speaker 1: has to lay seventeen thousand people off. But it's like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, my wife just quit her job and

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Speaker 1: I just bought this new car, like and sorry, is

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Speaker 1: that magnification effect? Yeah, this is that magnification effect. Right,

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Speaker 1: you do one thing here and then ten other things

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Speaker 1: happened somewhere else, and then of course the problem is

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Speaker 1: the greedy capitalist again, which is you know, this is

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Speaker 1: this is part of the positive blame month of something else,

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Speaker 1: the issue that happened. It's it's the it's the it's

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Speaker 1: also it's the whipsaw effect. Right, So it's like if okay,

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Speaker 1: increase the money and this, okay, let us deal with that.

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Speaker 1: But it's no, no, no, it's it's let's increase it

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Speaker 1: by and then let's suck it back out and then

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Speaker 1: let's put it back in then and so we don't

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Speaker 1: even know what's ever coming, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: So it's like we we can't ever get used to it,

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Speaker 1: we can't ever like adjust for it. Well, this is

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Speaker 1: this is actually one of the other things. While we're

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Speaker 1: on the Austrian economics topic, it's that you know, modern

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Speaker 1: economists talk about this thing called the business cycle, and

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Speaker 1: they're like, well, we don't know where the business cycle

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Speaker 1: comes from, and um, they actually and this is you

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people don't realize this, but you

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Speaker 1: go to university and when you learn about what the

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Speaker 1: business cycle comes from, no word of a lie. They

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Speaker 1: call it animal spirits. They say that it just happens,

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Speaker 1: and like it's right there in front of you. What

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Speaker 1: you just explain there the whips or effect, like the

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Speaker 1: business cycles are created by the very interventionism that is

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Speaker 1: supposed to smooth out the business cycles. They literally created

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Speaker 1: by their own hubris and stupidity. Whereas you you know,

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Speaker 1: naturally get some sort of cyclical effect in and a

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Speaker 1: economy because you know, as you said, sometimes people go out,

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Speaker 1: they build a business, they get a little bit carried away,

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Speaker 1: you know, they hire too much or whatever, and you

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Speaker 1: know that has local effects. But when you're doing it

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Speaker 1: at the central planning level, you know, and at the

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Speaker 1: at the mass you know, national global national economy level

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Speaker 1: of the global economy level, then you actually create these

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Speaker 1: total business cycles where everything becomes correlated. So in a

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Speaker 1: normal natural organic economy, if one industry kind of grew

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Speaker 1: itself out a little bit too much, and maybe the

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Speaker 1: adjacent industries might benefit a little bit from that, but

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Speaker 1: that tapers off very quickly. So if they make a

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Speaker 1: mistake and blow themselves up, it's a localized effect and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the economy is pretty fine. Whereas what

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Speaker 1: this interventionism does is it actually correlates everything. And now

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Speaker 1: you know, there's businesses that are going bust that should

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Speaker 1: actually be doing quite well now, but it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: all the same thing now. So so there's no more

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Speaker 1: actual economy. It's just the function of what the intervention

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Speaker 1: us to doing. How much money they're pulling into the

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Speaker 1: system and how much money they're sucking out has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with productivity anymore, or very little to do

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Speaker 1: with productivity anymore, which is madness, Like what why are

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Speaker 1: we working? What are we doing? Yeah? Um, if I

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Speaker 1: was going to play Devil's advocate here a little bit,

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Speaker 1: you know, understanding kind of the other side of the argument. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know the kinsians would you already made the case

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Speaker 1: is is their goal, their whole purpose that the federal

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Speaker 1: serves purpose is kind of to smooth out those cycles.

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Speaker 1: So what we'll do is the natural business cycles there, right,

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Speaker 1: we have changing one's needs and desires. Humans are irrational,

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Speaker 1: right um and so um, you you ordered too much

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Speaker 1: of one product or good or whatever, but I don't

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Speaker 1: want that anymore, right, and now all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: you're stuck with it. Right, So you have these natural

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Speaker 1: business cycles, and the Kinsians believe that they could smooth

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Speaker 1: that out by what what we'll do is we'll stimulate

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Speaker 1: a little bit in the times when we need, and

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Speaker 1: then we won't stimulant and we don't, and then we'll

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Speaker 1: smooth that cycle out. That's the purpose versus if we

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Speaker 1: kind of allowed the natural market to take its place,

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Speaker 1: then we'd have much more choppy boo and busts. So

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Speaker 1: what would you say to that? Yeah, well, I mean

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Speaker 1: the I guess the proof is in the pudding is

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Speaker 1: that you know, it really comes down to a study

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Speaker 1: of complex systems and and just a humility to at

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Speaker 1: least recognize that if you allow things like as I

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Speaker 1: sort of said before, it's like you get these natural

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Speaker 1: business cycles all the time, because as you said, people

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Speaker 1: are rational, they order too much, they've changed their mind,

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Speaker 1: whatever the case is. But when the effect is more localized.

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Speaker 1: It just doesn't have a systemic effect on everything else,

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Speaker 1: versus the process of correlating everyone together so that when

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Speaker 1: there is a problem, it actually becomes entirely systemic. It

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Speaker 1: affects people and industries and sections of the economy that

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Speaker 1: just shouldn't have anything to do with this, like and

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Speaker 1: it just it just spreads it all and and it

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Speaker 1: basically it reminds me of the whole all in this together,

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Speaker 1: you know, interventionist economy puts us all in everything together

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Speaker 1: for no reason. And instead of you know, the healthy

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Speaker 1: engine in a car for example, you know, like you know,

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Speaker 1: the radiator does its job, and the you know, the

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Speaker 1: carburetor does its job, the fuel injectors do their job.

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Speaker 1: You know, like everything does its own job here, Like

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Speaker 1: everyone is being sort of skewed to basically become a

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Speaker 1: speculator of some sort. And it exacerbates the booms and

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Speaker 1: it exacerbates the busts, and it just stresses everyone the

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Speaker 1: hell out, and instead of doing something productive with their time,

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Speaker 1: like building a business, everyone's hanging on you know, what

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Speaker 1: the hell is the interest rate going to be? What

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Speaker 1: are they getting? Like it's at the point now it's like,

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Speaker 1: what are they hinting about hinting about doing in the future,

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Speaker 1: And it's like, Okay, now, let's make all our decisions

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Speaker 1: based on the hint of a hint of a hint,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, animal spirits. Yeah. One way they

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Speaker 1: do that is, I mean, I think most people, not everybody,

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Speaker 1: but most people um probably realize that, like, price fixing

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Speaker 1: is bad. Right, If I set the price of bread,

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Speaker 1: but then the bread manufacturer, the baker can't produce it

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Speaker 1: for the price that it's fixed at, then he doesn't

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Speaker 1: produce bread anymore, at least the shortages. And so most

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Speaker 1: we will understand that. But they probably don't understand is

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Speaker 1: that when the Fed fixes the price of money, they're

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Speaker 1: they're they're fixing the price of everything. And so that's

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Speaker 1: that coordination, that large scale coordination that you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: There's a there's a guy a Matt Staller. He writes

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Speaker 1: a article called the I think it's called Big or

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Speaker 1: Big Monopoly, and he's talked about these monopolies that happen

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Speaker 1: all over the place. And just what wrote one talking

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Speaker 1: about Ponzi hospitals and counterfeit capitalism, which is pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about more of that in a minute. Also,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into time preference, we get into what the

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Speaker 1: world looks like if we could implement something like this

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Speaker 1: on the back end, how Bitcoin could potentially do that,

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Speaker 1: and maybe the moral core code for for fixing this

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Speaker 1: system like this. You're listening to the Mark Moa Show.

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Speaker 1: If you're just tune in, m in the studio with

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Speaker 1: Alex s Fetzky. We're talking about the decentralized Revolution, talking

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Speaker 1: about money and economics right now. We'll be back with

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Speaker 1: more in a minute. Don't go away, all right, Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: If you're just tuning in. You're listening to the Mark

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Speaker 1: Moa Show. We're talking about the Decentralized Revolution, and I'm

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Speaker 1: in the studio with Alex s. Fetzki. You canna find

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Speaker 1: him on Twitter at sfetzky Rights. He's the author of

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Speaker 1: the The Bitcoin Times, which is a really cool publication.

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Speaker 1: He's put together a bunch of Austrian articles, Austrian economics.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about economics, you know, before the break, I

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Speaker 1: had kind of hinted about this sub steck article I

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Speaker 1: got from Matt Staller and it's called Big and he

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Speaker 1: was talking about how um every every issue is talking

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Speaker 1: about these monopolies and he was talking about how he

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Speaker 1: calls it ponzi hospitals and counterfeit capitalism, and he was

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Speaker 1: talking about how ft X is nothing new, how it's

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Speaker 1: just like we work was where you get this uh

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Speaker 1: guy wearing a T shirt that everyone thinks is a genius,

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Speaker 1: and uh, he creates a story. This genius creates a

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Speaker 1: story as to why he's losing money, but why it's

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Speaker 1: a good thing because he's getting growth and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: But it's only possible because of this counterfeit capitalism, this

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Speaker 1: ponzi finance. Right, we work continue to give them money

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Speaker 1: to buy get these building leases that were worth more

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Speaker 1: than the buildings themselves, which were insane or like f TX.

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Speaker 1: They were talking about, um, how how it's happening with

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Speaker 1: hospitals and so it's allowed these private equity companies now

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Speaker 1: to start going and buying up all these hospitals, but

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Speaker 1: they don't know how to run them. The running them horrible.

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Speaker 1: Now the hospitals are going on a business. Um they

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Speaker 1: own the land and they were he was saying that

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Speaker 1: even like UM, the they gave the loans to the hospitals,

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Speaker 1: the hospitals are paying on the land, but when the

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Speaker 1: hospitals go broken, can't pay the loan the hospital money

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Speaker 1: to keep making payments. So then they can show to

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Speaker 1: their shareholders in prospective investors, hey we've never had a

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Speaker 1: payment missed. We're still growing even though they're actually funding

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Speaker 1: the money in. And he's talking about how it's only

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Speaker 1: possible because of this counterfeit capitalism, only possible because the

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Speaker 1: interventionalists created all this free money, gave it to them,

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Speaker 1: and how is distorting things and causing problems where now

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Speaker 1: hospital care has gone down, Uh, hospitals are going to business.

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Speaker 1: He was. He was blaming this whole last past hack

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Speaker 1: that recently happened on on on the same thing where

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Speaker 1: private equity came in, took over the business. They don't

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Speaker 1: know how to run it ran too the ground cause

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Speaker 1: the hack whatever. So I think there's there's definitely a

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Speaker 1: good case for that, um but let's let's go this

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Speaker 1: is the opposite of time preference. And I think this

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Speaker 1: is a big piece to hit on because as I

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Speaker 1: already kind of made the case that under Austrian economics

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Speaker 1: or natural law, it's like I've expended my energy and

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Speaker 1: if I decide not to expend that energy today, I

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Speaker 1: could store it and I could use it later. So

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Speaker 1: I'm delaying the gratification of using that later versus the interventionalist.

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Speaker 1: The Kinsians want to just create the money today and

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Speaker 1: we'll just pull it from the future. And so I

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Speaker 1: have this instant gratification, and that really starts to distort everything,

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Speaker 1: including every choice that we make concluding relationships, health, etcetera. Right, totally, So,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna read a passage here. It's a small

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Speaker 1: paragraph from from Safe Things article in the Bitcoin Times.

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Speaker 1: It says it's called a primerund time preference, and the

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Speaker 1: first paragraph is the scarcity of time is the starting

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Speaker 1: point of all economic choice. The scarcity of time forces

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Speaker 1: man to choose between alternatives at all points in his life,

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Speaker 1: and it means that every decision has an opportunity cost,

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Speaker 1: even with no restraint on the amount of resources available,

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Speaker 1: and individual's choice of how to spend their time results

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Speaker 1: in the elimination of all other choices for which he

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Speaker 1: could have used the time. Economizing time is therefore unique

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Speaker 1: because time passes and cannot be stopped or reversed. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I've I've heard the argument in the past.

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Speaker 1: You know, people like, oh, you know, will we ever

427
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: live in a post capitalist society where you know, we

428
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 1: have the Star Trek machine that you know creates anything

429
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: that we want at any point in time? And my

430
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 1: answer is, well, no, because that's still not a society

431
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: post time, right, Like, the only time we'll have a

432
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 1: post capitalist society is when time doesn't exist anymore. Because

433
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: even if you could create everything that you wanted right now,

434
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: you can only use what you wanted in place of

435
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: something else that you may have also wanted. But there's

436
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: a priority. So time is the ultimate sort of you know,

437
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 1: the ultimate equalizers, so to speak. And you know what

438
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: time preference is for for people who who may have

439
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,239
Speaker 1: either not heard the term or heard the term you're

440
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: not really understood it is. It's the it's the difference

441
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: in how you value the future in relation to the present. Right,

442
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:39,880
Speaker 1: So everyone always has a time preference, which is, uh,

443
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: it's more than one basically. So so the lowest time

444
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: preference you can get to is once. So if we know,

445
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: cause if we do it, like a quick example is

446
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: that the present is always worth more than the future

447
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: because the future has some level of uncertainty. You don't

448
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen down the track. So if

449
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: you could eat today, like food right now is worth

450
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: more than the potential of food tomorrow, and it's definitely

451
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: worth more than the potential of food a hundred days

452
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: from now, and it's for certain worth more than the

453
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: potential of food a thousand days from now. So so

454
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: the longer you know you go out the you know,

455
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: the more the president sort of valuable in relation to it. Now, civilization,

456
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: you can argue, is a function of how well or

457
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: how much you can value the future in relation to

458
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: the present. Because the more you can value the future,

459
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 1: the more longer term plans you can make, the more

460
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: things you can do. And then that's when you build things.

461
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: You create things like if everything was just now, you

462
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: would never build anything. You'd never build a house, you'd

463
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: never learned to build a fishing rod, for example, to

464
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: fish for more fish. So all of these things require

465
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: the lowering of one's time preference in order to increase

466
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 1: productivity and better the future. Essentially, now, what we do,

467
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 1: as you said, is like when we pull from the

468
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: future by intervening, by printing money, by creating credit out

469
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: and where and all this sort of Ponzinomics basically is

470
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 1: we we screw up that calculation and we make the

471
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: future more uncertain. And in making the future more uncertain,

472
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: it means we value the present way more in relation

473
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: to the uncertain future. Um. And we do everything short

474
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: termist in the way we do stuff. You know, we

475
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 1: spend more, We buy cheap crap. You know, we uh,

476
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: we gambling on every investment that we can sort of

477
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: think of. Um, you know, companies like what you mentioned

478
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: with the hospitals is like they have all this free money,

479
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: so you know, the money is worthless tomorrow, so let's

480
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: just throw it into stupid ideas and fund our own debt,

481
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: which is insane. But this is sort of well, we

482
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: eat we eat junk food because it tastes good right now,

483
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: even though we know it's going to cause long term

484
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: health effects. Correct, excuse everything. And I think time preference

485
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: is kind of like the master knob essentially, if the

486
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: master dial for the maturity of human beings an individual

487
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: level and civilization at a macro level. Like if the

488
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: if the time preference is really really really low, you

489
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: have extreme maturity. If the time preference is really really

490
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 1: really really high, you have extreme immaturity, and that's really

491
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: the dial And um, I think what we've done to

492
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: the world with all this intervention ism is we've made

493
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: the future so uncertain that we've made everybody and everything

494
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: immature and we're just shooting from the hip hoping for

495
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: the best. Is it a chicken or the egg? Though? Right? Like?

496
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it because we we we naturally we

497
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: want you know, we talked about capitalism being natural, right,

498
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: so naturally we're going to try to get more for less, right,

499
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna try to be more efficient. We want um,

500
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, we want to speed things up, and so

501
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: naturally we kind of want to get things faster, and um,

502
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: that caused us to have the short term thinking in

503
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: ours of our life, including now we've found a way

504
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: to short term uh you know, hack into our money

505
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: or is it because the money creation and gave us

506
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: that thought? You chicken or the economy? It is an

507
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: interesting one. I think the it's one where if you

508
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: can separate the the consequence from the act you you

509
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know which one is the chicken

510
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: or the egg here, but you you you create a

511
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: situation where does the money cause us to have short

512
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: term thinking and everything. Or is it because we have

513
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: short term thinking, we've created a shortcut to money. Yeah,

514
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: I would that's a good question. I think they feed

515
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: on each other, honestly, And then somewhere along the line

516
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: we end up in a situation where we create a

517
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: way to have short term thinking, have the benefit of it,

518
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: and then have somebody else pay for it. So then

519
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: you end up, you know, stuck on this drug of

520
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: you know, like economic heroine, and it just feels good

521
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: for the moment. Feels good, feels good, feels good, and

522
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: you don't feel the concerts until you die. We gotta,

523
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: we gotta, we gotta take a quick break. UM. If

524
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: you're just tuning in, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show.

525
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: We talk about the decentralized Revolution. We're talking about money

526
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: because money is, you know, what makes the world go around.

527
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: Talking about the different types of economics, and I want

528
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: to talk more. We have Alex Fetzki in the studio.

529
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: I want to talk more when we come back about UM.

530
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: Now we've understood this time preference. Talk more about UM.

531
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: This moral code for us, moral code for leaders in

532
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: the future, UM and what that future looks like. So

533
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: We're gonna be back with that and more in a minute.

534
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: You don't want to miss this part. It brings it

535
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: all together. We're back. Don't go away, all right, Welcome back.

536
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: If you're just tuning in, you're listening to the Mark

537
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: Moss Show. We're talking about the decentralized Revolution, and specifically

538
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about economics. We're talking about money. We're talking

539
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: about long time perspective or preference, high time preference, low

540
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: time preference. I'm in the studio with Alex S. Fetzki. Uh.

541
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: He's the author of the Bitcoin Times UM and you

542
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: can find them on Twitter at Sfetzki Rights. Now, Um, Alex,

543
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: I kind of asked you about this chicken or the egg,

544
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: and you know, like you said, they probably feed on

545
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: each other. I think that's probably probably the best case.

546
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: But let's say that, UM, you know, if we can

547
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, fix the money, fix the world, so to speak.

548
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: So there's money, maybe it's not the root of the cause,

549
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: but it certainly accelerates, uh and feeds into this kind

550
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: of short time perspective. UM. So if we could fix

551
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: that where these interventionists don't have the ability to just

552
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: create all this money from thin air, we went to

553
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: a sound money, a fixed money supply like bitcoin, um,

554
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: and then that slows down our perspective on money. Then

555
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: you believe that then that probably helps start changing the

556
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: perspective on all other other areas of our life. I

557
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: think so. So, Like if you think about all the

558
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: ancient teachings, and not just the ancient, like even the

559
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: Austrian teachings, like all this sort of stuff, they try

560
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: and educate human beings to be more mature, more moral,

561
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: more honorable, and a lot of these things sort of

562
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: revolve around behaving like an adult, thinking about the future,

563
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: not just about the present, right like that, they're sort

564
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: of all of these great stories, these great philosophies, whether

565
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: it's Stoicism or Christianity or any of these things, they

566
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: all kind of try and impart these lessons on human beings. Um.

567
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: But as we sort of identified as like, human beings

568
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: have a tendency to want to do things the easy

569
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: way and you know, get the shortcut, you know, and

570
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: if they don't feel the consequence of the shortcut, then

571
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: they're oblivious to, uh, you know, whether what they did

572
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: was you know, right or wrong or indifferent. Um. Now,

573
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: by by fixing the money. What you end up doing

574
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: is you you create a new environment in which, at

575
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: least the hypothesis here is that if you make a

576
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: poor economic choice, the consequence is far more localized and

577
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: therefore you get feedback, right, And we talked about this

578
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: in the Uncommunist Manifestomy. I wrote that is like the

579
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: faster the feedback loop, or the closer the the the

580
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: consequence you know, to the actor, the more likely they

581
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: are to adapt and change in order to survive. And

582
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: you know, my my hypothesis in my article in in

583
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: the Bitcoin Times was that bitcoin kind of makes what

584
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: the Austrians and prudent schools of thought all throughout history

585
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: of sort of suggested. I think bitcoin kind of codifies

586
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: it in the economy by making the money fixed and

587
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: you know, not allowing any bailouts through printing you know,

588
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: more money or all that sort of stuff. And I

589
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: actually think that what will happen is smart people, good operators,

590
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: will actually orient themselves in such a way that the

591
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: teachings of you know, Austrian economics and all that sort

592
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: of stuff don't just have to call upon people's like

593
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: honor and um an intelligence and maturity to behave the

594
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: right way. There's actually going to be an economic benefit

595
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: to behaving the right way, because you're less likely to

596
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: blow yourself up because you know, you'll, uh, You're purchasing

597
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: power is increasing just purely by function of being a

598
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: responsible adult and saving you know, so so it kind

599
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: of changes that game a little bit. So, yeah, that's interesting,

600
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: that's interesting point I am. You know, you've referenced many

601
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: times Lennon's quote where you said that you know, destroy capitalism,

602
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: devoutch the currency through inflation, and you steal, and then

603
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: the best way to get rich is through gambling and theft, right,

604
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of where wrath is gambling and theft,

605
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: and so then you just start looking at your whole

606
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: life that way, and you're just trying to thieve and

607
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: steal and gamble and trick everything kind of a thing. Um.

608
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: But and in these of that last piece you're talking

609
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: about our savings and so like if we did have

610
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: this kind of like fixed money supply and our savings

611
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: were sound, that really starts to change a lot of things, right,

612
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: because one, we have to continually work harder to try

613
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: to offset the theft of inflation. And now that X

614
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: or time we might save could go into building better

615
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: relationships or better education or knowledge of becoming more mature,

616
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: because you're saying, like the argument or maybe the problem

617
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,959
Speaker 1: is that we're not maturing enough. And as you were

618
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: saying that, I was thinking back to the chicken or

619
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: the egg dilemma. Uh, you don't have kids. I do,

620
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: and kids at one and two years old have very

621
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: short time preference. It wasn't the money. It wasn't money

622
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: that taught them that they're born with that right. And

623
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: it's through the act of maturing that you learned to

624
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: delay the gratification. So uh to me. And as I

625
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: started kind of thinking about that, usually word maturity and

626
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: it kind of brought that into perspective. But um, you know,

627
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: I was on this Twitter spaces recently and we started

628
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: getting kind of into you know, what does the future

629
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: of money look like? On bitcoin? And um, they're trying

630
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: to explain how, you know, I think there could be

631
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: some fractional reserve and there would be you know, people

632
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: would loan your money against your bitcoin and and and

633
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: you can get some yield this way and blah blah blah.

634
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: And I was like, if your money held value and

635
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: actually bought you more goods and services in the future

636
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: than less. I wouldn't need to be invested it, and

637
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't need to be earning yield, and so like

638
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: you're trying to like think of how it could be

639
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: used in context of what we have today. But if

640
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: my money brought me more goods and services, then I

641
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: just saved my money and I just keep focusing on

642
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: wealth creation instead of this whole investing complex, you know,

643
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: Wall Street and Wall Street industrial complex that's been built up.

644
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: Kind of a thing. I agree, I agree. One of

645
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: the best articles that was ever written about this concept

646
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: is called the Great de Financialization, which was written by

647
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: pacul Lewis, and he actually wrote it for addition three

648
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: of the Bitcoin Times. It was one of my favorite

649
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: ever and um it was actually around the first time

650
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: you and I did a podcast. Actually, I remember I

651
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: was in Germany when he wrote the article, and I

652
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: was in Germany when we did our first podcast together.

653
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: But he basically it's called the Great Definancialization, and the

654
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: premise of the article is that while people think that

655
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: you know, bitcoin is gonna you know, increase financialization in

656
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: the world and everything is like no, no, no, it's

657
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: actually going to simplify all of this excess um, you know,

658
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: baggage and confusion comes with the financial world today because

659
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: we are trying to find ways basically not to become poor.

660
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: Like that's literally all these machinations like investing and trading

661
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: and like you know, millions and millions upon millions derivatives

662
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: products and all this sort of stuff. It's all hot air,

663
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: it's all fluff, and it's all kind of like a

664
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: a roundabout way to try and offset the damage that

665
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: basically monetary inflation does to the world. And it's like,

666
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: you know, let's just you know Alexander the Great and

667
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: the Gordian Knot, right, you know, they said you can,

668
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: you will become you know whatever. It was like king

669
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: of this region if you can untie the knot before

670
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: the sun goes down. And he looks at the knot,

671
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: looks at the sun, pulls out his sword and he

672
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: just cut the knot in half. Right, So like, let's

673
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: just you know, Bitcoin is cutting the Gordian knot of

674
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: this tangle of crap. You know, You've got people talking

675
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: about like, oh, let's like, you know, open up regulations

676
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's like no, no, let's just cut

677
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: the crap and you know, let let the chips full. Basically, yeah, yeah,

678
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's uh, It's something I talked to

679
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: my kids a lot about, specifically my oldest daughter, and

680
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: she's kind of wrestling with this, like what she's gonna

681
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 1: do and does she want to take class at university?

682
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is that you old ultimately want? And like,

683
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: what's just the quickest way to get there? Like do

684
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: you need to go through this existing system to get

685
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: to where you want to go? In my opinion from

686
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: where I'm at, the answer is no. And kind of

687
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: to your point, like do you need to sit there

688
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: and untie the knot or do you just cut it?

689
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: You know, a conversation I've had many times with some

690
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: of the people I'll leave unnamed for now, but you

691
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: know they talk about like, well, how does it fix

692
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 1: the euro dollar market? That's a question I've been asked

693
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of times, right, because like we have this

694
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: huge problem with all these off short dollars, and that's

695
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: really where the shortage is happening. In the FED doesn't

696
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 1: have enough firepower to actually keep the dollars enough dollars

697
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: in supply because of what's happened to the euro dollar market?

698
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: And then the yield curves are inverting and how does

699
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: it fix that? And like it doesn't like it just

700
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: does a way with the whole need for that. And

701
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: then firstly, like know, so it's kind of like top

702
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: like like like cutting cutting the knot, so to speak.

703
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: We got about thirty or forty five seconds left. Anything

704
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: else you want to throw out there? Throw out before

705
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: we wrap this up, no other than like if if

706
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: people found this interesting and they want to dig into

707
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 1: this a little bit further, like Bitcoin Times dot io

708
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: is dot io sorry is where they can pick up

709
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: a copy of the Bitcoin Times. So there's five editions,

710
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: the latest being the Australian one. I think is you know,

711
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: really really really really special. So you know, people want

712
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: to support and check that out by all means. But

713
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope they enjoyed this history and economics lesson. Yeah, hopefully,

714
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: And I would I would really encourage everyone to just

715
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: dig into this a little bit. Get get the Bitcoin Times.

716
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: I have, I have every issue that's come out. Check

717
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: out mesas dot org as well. Lots of good articles

718
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: on mesas as well. Check out the book that we

719
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: wrote the Uncommunist Manifesto. You can get that on Amazon

720
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: just search Uncommunist Manifesto. UM and check that out as well.

721
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: And uh man, keep digging into this. It's it's it

722
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: can change not just your life, but change the world. UM.

723
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: You've been listening to the Markma Show or talking about

724
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: the decentralized Revolution in the studio with Alex Fetzky and

725
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: that's what we got. Thanks for listening.