Speaker 1: Hey, it's Alec Baldwin here before we launch our next
Speaker 1: season of Here's the Thing at iHeartRadio in January, I
Speaker 1: thought I'd play some of my favorite shows from the archives.
Speaker 1: Three years ago, twenty three year old Lena Dunham made
Speaker 1: a low budget art house film called Tiny Furniture. She
Speaker 1: filmed the movie in her parents' house and basically played herself,
Speaker 1: a recent college graduate moving back into her childhood bedroom
Speaker 1: while making plans for her future. Dunham was proclaimed a
Speaker 1: fresh original voice, a director with a bright future. Writer
Speaker 1: director Judd Apatow was one of those who took notice,
Speaker 1: and today he and Dunham executive produced Girls, a show
Speaker 1: she created for HBO that premiered its second season on
Speaker 1: January thirteenth. You're good.
Speaker 2: I am so good at you kidding? I have never
Speaker 2: been as well in my life.
Speaker 1: No, I know. I mean you've seen good that. The
Speaker 1: wedding was so quick and unexpected. I kind of even
Speaker 1: know how to process it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you tend to overthink things, and that's an
Speaker 2: issue for you. This is what it's like when the
Speaker 2: hunt is over. I think Sandy really likes me.
Speaker 1: I really like him too.
Speaker 2: When you's so nice, and funny when you have sex.
Speaker 2: There's no part of me that wants like pretend they
Speaker 2: don't exist, which is a rarity.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. He's kind of a Republican, which feels weird.
Speaker 2: What's wrong of the Republican?
Speaker 1: It's just the same as a Democrat. They're old bags.
Speaker 1: Lena Dunham has achieved an astonishing amount in just three years.
Speaker 1: Her portrayal of Hannah Horvath and Girls recently won her
Speaker 1: a Golden Globe Award for Best Actress in a Comedy Series.
Speaker 1: This past October, she sold a book of essays and
Speaker 1: advice to Random House, and her boyfriend is a rock star. Today,
Speaker 1: she hardly resembles Aura, her character from Tiny Furniture. I
Speaker 1: thought I wouldn't have much in common with Lena. She's
Speaker 1: half my age and has been fiercely embraced by my
Speaker 1: daughter's generation. But oh, how quickly we realized there was
Speaker 1: common ground between us us.
Speaker 2: Literally, my show is moving into the thirty rock stages.
Speaker 1: No, yes, we're taking you guys are moving to Silver Cup. Yes,
Speaker 1: you and Michael Fop.
Speaker 2: We were in Silver Cup. Then we went to Steiner
Speaker 2: because we couldn't get our stages back because some show
Speaker 2: that has one word that's about murder took it. And
Speaker 2: then we are coming back because you guys are leaving,
Speaker 2: so we're going to be on your stages and in
Speaker 2: your offices.
Speaker 1: No, no, I thought, isn't Michael Fox coming there too?
Speaker 2: He is. We're I think we don't take as much
Speaker 2: stage space as you guys did, so we're going to
Speaker 2: have because we have fewer sets. So I think it
Speaker 2: is gonna have We're gonna have a piece and he's
Speaker 2: gonna have a piece.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Now, as I'm sitting here meeting you for the first
Speaker 1: time and talking to you for the first time, you
Speaker 1: are nothing like I imagined you would be. Really nothing.
Speaker 1: I'm a bit thrown here because you play someone who
Speaker 1: is a guess in your mind that I want to
Speaker 1: talk about. Your a vision of what kind of character
Speaker 1: you wanted to create is a little bit a beat
Speaker 1: behind everyone else. Or I'll let you articulate that what
Speaker 1: you think she is though, But what I want to
Speaker 1: say is you when I meet you, you seem like
Speaker 1: you could be like a senator or the head of
Speaker 1: the corporation. I mean, you're really very, very You seem
Speaker 1: so together and smart, and you look great, and you
Speaker 1: cut your hair, you look gorgeous. That is firstly, very meaningful.
Speaker 2: And I have to not turn red and get excited
Speaker 2: because you said that's radio.
Speaker 1: So I don't care. I don't care.
Speaker 2: I'll get good, perfect, and I'm wearing my crew jacket
Speaker 2: and I really I should have dressed up more for you.
Speaker 2: But that being said, you know, it's funny. Firstly, a
Speaker 2: beat behind idea really speaks to me because I'm always
Speaker 2: sort of saying when people ask about Hand, I'm always
Speaker 2: sort of saying, she's a version of me, but she's
Speaker 2: a few years behind me, and she's also sort of
Speaker 2: a few minutes behind everyone around her. So you really
Speaker 2: picked up on a concept that I'm sort of always
Speaker 2: thinking about a little bit when I play her and
Speaker 2: when I write her.
Speaker 1: But she's who you used to be.
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny. I think I used to I
Speaker 2: think I in order to convince myself that I should
Speaker 2: play this character, or that I should even write this character,
Speaker 2: I had to say, well, I'm just writing my It's
Speaker 2: that easy. I'm just writing myself. Because the idea of
Speaker 2: sort of creating an entire other human can be so
Speaker 2: intimidating and Who are you?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 2: In real life?
Speaker 1: In real life, who are you?
Speaker 2: I think that Hannah is someone who I'm very capable
Speaker 2: of being, who's wounded, ambitious but doesn't know where to
Speaker 2: place it. Hannah sort of the version of myself if
Speaker 2: I'd had less understanding parents and sort of less drive
Speaker 2: to get things done. And I think who I am
Speaker 2: as a person who was always sort of if I
Speaker 2: had to describe the war within myself that exists currently.
Speaker 2: It's sort of the challenge of trying to reconcile the
Speaker 2: part of me that that always thought I would be, like,
Speaker 2: you know, a weird gender and women studies teacher who
Speaker 2: occasionally showed movies at film festivals and hung out in
Speaker 2: my strange apartment that was stacked high with books. Trying
Speaker 2: to reconcile that with the part of me that has
Speaker 2: to like figure out a dress.
Speaker 1: The cover of Rolling Stone magazine.
Speaker 2: Exactly it was to shoot the Rolling cover of Rolling
Speaker 2: Stone Magazine was to figure out a dress to wear
Speaker 2: that for an event that and everyone seems to be
Speaker 2: worried about whether or not the dress is in st
Speaker 2: because it has to be my own dress, and so
Speaker 2: I'm dealing with all these sort of this strange echosystem
Speaker 2: and all these weird politics that I kind of never
Speaker 2: imagined would happen to me in my lifetime.
Speaker 1: You never imagined, No, you really never imagined it.
Speaker 2: I think I my dream situation was that I would
Speaker 2: be someone who people thought, oh, she's doing important work
Speaker 2: in her own little corner.
Speaker 4: Like a ras Chaste cartoon character, exactly like a Ra's
Speaker 4: Chast cartoon character, or like I think because I went
Speaker 4: to pretentious private school, the biggest dream you would have
Speaker 4: is you'd be.
Speaker 2: Like I'm going to be Joan Diddyon. That was kind
Speaker 2: of where your brain was allowed to wantry maybe Nora.
Speaker 1: E from Maybe You'll make films, but you're not going
Speaker 1: to be in films exactly.
Speaker 2: And I don't think when I first started acting, I
Speaker 2: mean I never got parts in high school. I never
Speaker 2: even I never was able. I think I had a
Speaker 2: twofold thing about it. One is that it came from
Speaker 2: a family of artists, and so the idea was sort
Speaker 2: of like you made your work and then got out
Speaker 2: of the way of it. Like part of what was
Speaker 2: I think I internalized the idea that your work was
Speaker 2: supposed to speak for you. You were not supposed to
Speaker 2: speak for your work, and so I think I was
Speaker 2: conscious about the idea of being anything so self promoting,
Speaker 2: and although that's not what acting is, it is now
Speaker 2: it's become that. And then I also think that I thought, well,
Speaker 2: there's people who are professionals who can do this better
Speaker 2: than me. So I'm just going to act until I
Speaker 2: have access to the people who should be acting. And
Speaker 2: sometimes I still feel that way. Sometimes I think, like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'll do this a little longer and then
Speaker 2: Michelle Williams can play me every day till I die.
Speaker 2: Something that's really nice about making the show that isn't
Speaker 2: that is a comedy that isn't stuck in any sort
Speaker 2: of I mean, thirty Rock was able to bust out
Speaker 2: of a lot of network sitcom tropes, but a lot
Speaker 2: of the time when you're on a I think one
Speaker 2: of the biggest things that networks prevent, besides curse words
Speaker 2: and showing your breasts is development. I think that when
Speaker 2: you play, I think so many sitcom characters end up
Speaker 2: playing the same version of themselves in various scenarios.
Speaker 1: This is the thing as God as my judge. This
Speaker 1: is the thing that we talked about in the meeting
Speaker 1: to prep this thing with you, which was shows I've
Speaker 1: seen where the protagonists male or female, they're going through
Speaker 1: the same set of problems in season six that they
Speaker 1: were in season one. It's just different lines in different coasts. Yes,
Speaker 1: And with you, I'm wondering, do you have a Bible
Speaker 1: on the show? Do you have an arc in your mind?
Speaker 1: Not even on paper, not even approved with your other
Speaker 1: Could you do this with jud correct.
Speaker 2: I do it with Judd and a woman named Jenny
Speaker 2: Connor who's the other executive producer.
Speaker 1: And we have a great little writer's room.
Speaker 2: But our writer's room doesn't really work like It's not
Speaker 2: like we write a script and then all sit together
Speaker 2: punching it up. It's much more we sit together at
Speaker 2: the beginning of the season and really talk through It's
Speaker 2: like a giant therapy session where we work out the
Speaker 2: emotional arc and then we go to it.
Speaker 1: And when you work out that emotional arc, do you
Speaker 1: think to yourself are the things that she's going through?
Speaker 1: Now your character and the other characters where you're saying
Speaker 1: to yourself, let's make sure they're not going through this,
Speaker 1: that there is growth a season from now or by
Speaker 1: the end of the season completely.
Speaker 2: And that's why I feel like it's okay for me
Speaker 2: to cut my hair, or it's okay for me to
Speaker 2: start spinning, or it's okay for me you know whatever
Speaker 2: I whatever to change to change, because I feel as
Speaker 2: though so much of what this show is about is
Speaker 2: about seeing these girls off into their adulthood. Like in
Speaker 2: my Bible, the ideal finale to the show would be
Speaker 2: a feeling like, you know, they don't have to have kids,
Speaker 2: they don't have to have husbands, but you look at
Speaker 2: them and you kind of go, they're on their way.
Speaker 2: They're more okay than they were when they started, or
Speaker 2: they're less okay, but we have an understanding of what
Speaker 2: kind of adult we think they're going to be.
Speaker 1: So describe to me how that works. Because the theme
Speaker 1: here is control. And you are, like other brilliant comedy
Speaker 1: writing chicks I've known over the years. You have this
Speaker 1: is your show, this is your thing. So how does
Speaker 1: it start? How does whose idea was? Girls? Was it yours?
Speaker 2: It was mine? Because I basically I went in, I
Speaker 2: made this movie tiny Furniture, and I made it. You know,
Speaker 2: my mom and sister starred. We shot it in my
Speaker 2: mom's house, my mom and dad's house. It was totally
Speaker 2: populated with friends, some of whom have made their way
Speaker 2: to Girls with me.
Speaker 1: And what motivated you don't want to do tiny furniture.
Speaker 2: I had always wanted to be a writer, and I
Speaker 2: used to think I wanted to be a playwright, and
Speaker 2: then in college I sort of had this revelation where
Speaker 2: I thought, like, plays, you rehearse, and you rehearse, and
Speaker 2: then they happened twice. Like I just felt so frustrated
Speaker 2: by the lack of permanence. Like I'd always been sort
Speaker 2: of turned on by the fact that when my parents
Speaker 2: as artists, made work, like they had these material items
Speaker 2: that would outlast them. And I was frustrated that that
Speaker 2: wasn't a part of the theater experience. So I started
Speaker 2: making short films and I made my first feature and
Speaker 2: went to south By Southwest Film Festival with it, and
Speaker 2: then I just had and I'd been making web TV,
Speaker 2: and I just had this itch to sort of tell
Speaker 2: the specific story, and I wrote the script and the kind.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I want to talk about, is is
Speaker 1: that itch meaning beyond the arc of the shooting and
Speaker 1: the and the career aspects of it or the burgeoning career.
Speaker 1: What was it about what was going on in your
Speaker 1: life that you want to do that movie?
Speaker 2: On a practical, real life level, I wanted to talk
Speaker 2: about that moment between college and adulthood that felt so
Speaker 2: flounder and so every day I felt like I was
Speaker 2: walking through the strangest, most surreal soup. That would mean
Speaker 2: that on a deeper level, I kind of wanted to
Speaker 2: talk about change, which is what I always think is
Speaker 2: sort of the most interesting place to find characters is
Speaker 2: in a time of intense change. And so I sort
Speaker 2: of also wanted to capture this moment where I was
Speaker 2: I knew that I wouldn't live at home forever, that
Speaker 2: my little sister wouldn't be sort of seventeen and ambitious
Speaker 2: but also stuck in her bedroom forever, that my mom
Speaker 2: was sort of looking in this beautiful moment where she
Speaker 2: kind of was I mean, she'd murder me for saying this,
Speaker 2: but she looked that kind of beautiful way where it's
Speaker 2: like you're not quite old yet and you just look
Speaker 2: kind of She just looked kind of perfect to me,
Speaker 2: and I just.
Speaker 1: Look a great car.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just thought I could say that exactly,
Speaker 2: and I just thought, I want to capture all of this.
Speaker 2: I want to capture our cats, I want to capture
Speaker 2: our house, I want to remember all of this. And so,
Speaker 2: so you really love your mom. I'm obsessed with my mom. Okay,
Speaker 2: I love my mom.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, that's interesting that you have that feeling
Speaker 1: and that's what makes you survey what's around. You wouldn't
Speaker 1: want to capture that because I find typically people who
Speaker 1: are not happy they got to wait a while until
Speaker 1: they can negotiate the pain to go back and talk
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 2: It's one of the biggest things that inspires me to
Speaker 2: make work is this feeling of looking around and going,
Speaker 2: even if you're not perfect, you're all so perfect right now,
Speaker 2: let's capture this and then, you know, I'd love the feeling.
Speaker 2: I was just watching like Panic and Needle Park last week,
Speaker 2: that movie which is you know it, Kitty Win, Kitty Gosh,
Speaker 2: She's so good. Where did Kitty Win go?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Let me get that vile out for Kitty Win.
Speaker 1: She's incredible.
Speaker 2: But so I was watching that and I was just
Speaker 2: thinking about how exciting it was to be able to
Speaker 2: watch sort of like al Pacino at that first moment
Speaker 2: when he was sort of like he still almost looked
Speaker 2: a little adolescent, and he was still and he was
Speaker 2: learning his craft and just behaving on film. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I just love capturing that. And that's something that I've
Speaker 2: tried to do with girls too, is sort of grab
Speaker 2: people and go, let's just let's just see you as
Speaker 2: you are right now.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: So the film did well, So then how does girls Happen?
Speaker 3: Girls happened? Because so then I went to LA and
Speaker 3: kind of did that. I went like, Okay, I guess
Speaker 3: what you do next is get an agent. And I
Speaker 3: guess what you do next is try to figure out
Speaker 3: what you're doing next.
Speaker 1: You, I mean, you're on the runway.
Speaker 2: Now, Yes, I was. I was on the runway, and
Speaker 2: I was going around LA doing the sort of what
Speaker 2: I call the couch and water bottle tour of LA,
Speaker 2: where you meet everybody and have those kind of general
Speaker 2: meetings where and I remember it was so funny because
Speaker 2: at first I didn't understand that everybody says to you
Speaker 2: at the end of the general meeting, oh, I'd love
Speaker 2: to find a way to work with you. And so
Speaker 2: I would call my agent afterwards and go, oh my god,
Speaker 2: it was amazing, and he said he wants to find
Speaker 2: a way.
Speaker 1: To work with me, and he meant he what should
Speaker 1: come clean his pool?
Speaker 2: Yeah, basically, I'd always been obsessed with TV. I'd always
Speaker 2: loved TV and found it to be the most sort
Speaker 2: of comforting medium and.
Speaker 1: The one that what comforted you on TV?
Speaker 2: What comforted me on TV was there's a range of
Speaker 2: things that comforted me on TV. I loved having weird
Speaker 2: what was the most what was the weirdest? I mean,
Speaker 2: my favorite show when I was little was Under the
Speaker 2: Umbrella Tree, which is a Canadian show about a woman
Speaker 2: who lives with three puppet and it was on every
Speaker 2: morning at seven am. God there were three of them
Speaker 2: named Iggy, Gloria, and Jay, and Iggy was an iguana.
Speaker 2: Gloria is a groundhog and Jay is a blue jay
Speaker 2: and he lives out back in a birdhouse. They like
Speaker 2: talk to you about recycling, or like help their old
Speaker 2: elderly neighbor who fell down in the street. Like they're
Speaker 2: just like nice puppets, But looking back, it feels like
Speaker 2: a child molester who's on the lamb with her three.
Speaker 1: My my guilty pleasure. Like that was when I was
Speaker 1: in my twenties and I go to my friend's house
Speaker 1: and we just had this weird habit where like at
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the afternoon, we'd like make a drink
Speaker 1: and we'd roll the biggest joint and we'd smoke pot
Speaker 1: and watch a show called Stairway to Stardom that was
Speaker 1: on Public Access TV. And Stairway to Startom was this
Speaker 1: older man and kind of looked like Rod Steiger. He
Speaker 1: was like a burly looking, tough looking older man. And
Speaker 1: his wife and she kind of looked like like Tammy
Speaker 1: Faye Baker. She was like a big, big honey combed
Speaker 1: shellacte hair and she was like this big bosom me
Speaker 1: older woman. And the guy would come out and he
Speaker 1: had the funniest voice. He'd be like, welcome everyone to
Speaker 1: sell and use, and they'd sing a song and opening
Speaker 1: so and they would bring out acts that would perform.
Speaker 1: They were all like local queens Brooklyn talent parakeets.
Speaker 3: It was like it was bizarre that sounds like the
Speaker 3: best thing in the world. It was the best show
Speaker 3: in the world, especially if you've smoked.
Speaker 1: An enormous amount of marijuana an enormous joint, so you're
Speaker 1: on the Sofa water Bottle Tour and what happens on
Speaker 1: the sofa water bottle.
Speaker 2: Tour and my agent, who I feel like you're not
Speaker 2: supposed to say you love your agent because it makes
Speaker 2: you sound really Hollywood and everyone. I love everyone, And
Speaker 2: also I have the best agent. He's like really been
Speaker 2: at it for a long time. He's like a cigar
Speaker 2: smoking you know, he's what I imagined. His name's Peter Benedeck.
Speaker 1: Peter Benedict did know Peter Benedeck, And he smoked cigars.
Speaker 3: He's old school, he's old kind of a hectemic gothapy exactly.
Speaker 2: And he belongs to a cigar club. Which one does
Speaker 2: he belong to? I think it says it has a
Speaker 2: Cuban flair. I think it is.
Speaker 1: I'm on the board of Grand ev are you. I
Speaker 1: know Peter and I probably have seen him a Granda
Speaker 1: that Wow. He always plays on the out there and
Speaker 1: smoked the goods with him when you were still a
Speaker 1: gleam in your parents. Aye, you weren't even around God.
Speaker 1: Damn with the way this business works. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: So he's your agent and you love him.
Speaker 2: I love him, And he said to me, I was
Speaker 2: sort of saying to him like, maybe I could get
Speaker 2: I just wanted to move out of my parents' house,
Speaker 2: and I thought and make more movies. And I was like,
Speaker 2: maybe I could should write a spec how I met
Speaker 2: your mother, and I could get staffed on a show.
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't know any I didn't know how
Speaker 2: any of this worked. And he said that I should
Speaker 2: go for a meeting at HBO, and I did, and
Speaker 2: I said, well, here's what I'd want to see, is
Speaker 2: like a show about all my girlfriends, like sort of
Speaker 2: like Tiny Furniture, but there's more of us, and we
Speaker 2: don't live with our parents anymore, but it's still about that.
Speaker 2: It's like it was pitched so weekly, like a year
Speaker 2: after my movie, but there's more of us and it's
Speaker 2: a TV show.
Speaker 1: So the conversation wasn't coming out of and Tiny Furniture
Speaker 1: in the indie and in the festival world had a
Speaker 1: very good buzz. There was no conversation, but you just
Speaker 1: going right into films and making more films. Normally they're
Speaker 1: going to want to steer some especially your age was
Speaker 1: very young. They're going to go just keep making movies.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, there was a conversation, but I think
Speaker 2: I picked up on the fact very early going on
Speaker 2: the Couch and Water Bottle tour that the kind of
Speaker 2: stories that I wanted to tell we're not really being
Speaker 2: funded on a larger scale and film.
Speaker 1: We're taking a break stay with us.
Speaker 2: I picked up on the fact very early going on
Speaker 2: the Couch and Water Bottle tour that the kind of
Speaker 2: stories that I wanted to tell we're not really being
Speaker 2: funded on a larger scale.
Speaker 1: And film Tina says that sometimes the Tina I would
Speaker 1: just finished working. Yeah, it seems like it's more difficult
Speaker 1: to ay to have the control you want in the
Speaker 1: film business and be to say what you want to say.
Speaker 2: It is, And the fact is I could have kept
Speaker 2: saying what I wanted to say, you know, making twenty
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars movies, but I wanted It's weird. The
Speaker 2: reason that I like having some budget is not because
Speaker 2: you know, I want to stagecarshes or I want to
Speaker 2: have you know, ten makeup artists on set, although those
Speaker 2: things would will would be lovely, But but it's more
Speaker 2: because of the fact that I do so many jobs,
Speaker 2: so so exciting to not have to worry anymore about
Speaker 2: answering the doorbell, about returning the equipment, about making sure
Speaker 2: that people had the pizza. Also, that's going to happen
Speaker 2: in TV. And what I has money and has HBO
Speaker 2: is time Warner. But they have money, but they use
Speaker 2: it in this kind of amazing It's this amazing model,
Speaker 2: which is that they don't have to answer to advertisers
Speaker 2: in the same way. So HBO can sort of fulfill
Speaker 2: its odd little interests. And that's what I started out
Speaker 2: as and I what I didn't predict was how much
Speaker 2: I would love the opportunity to develop characters in this
Speaker 2: way and the kind of the fiber of TV itself.
Speaker 1: And they believe in you. Based on my experience, I've
Speaker 1: never worked for them, but I've have many friends and
Speaker 1: colleagues over the years who've worked for them, and I've
Speaker 1: I've almost worked for them here and there. You know,
Speaker 1: HBO is one of those places like that, I think
Speaker 1: the most six testful studios and networks. The way they operate,
Speaker 1: which is that they vetted maybe to a fairly well,
Speaker 1: but if once they believe in you, they're all in
Speaker 1: it's yours. They give you the money that they it's
Speaker 1: not too intrusive now, so the template of four women,
Speaker 1: and obviously HBO is no stranger to the template of
Speaker 1: four women talking about but obviously those women were older.
Speaker 2: And you've been a fan of that show, Yes, I
Speaker 2: think that I can't find one girl who isn't at
Speaker 2: least secretly a fan of Sex and the City who's
Speaker 2: my age. And I loved it, And you know, I
Speaker 2: was very conscious when I was first writing the show.
Speaker 2: I thought to myself, should I put these girls in Boston?
Speaker 2: There was and I tried to make it three girls
Speaker 2: because and Shashana was initially not one of the girls.
Speaker 2: Shashana was jess as Zosher Mammot's character was jess A's
Speaker 2: Jemim mc kirk's character's cousin, and she kind of came
Speaker 2: in and out as a kind of She was the
Speaker 2: more suring as a recurring in and out goofball who
Speaker 2: was sort of supposed to call to.
Speaker 1: Be that.
Speaker 2: She does. She plays it beautifully and but the reason
Speaker 2: that I wrote her was to sort of call out
Speaker 2: the Sex and the City thing, like this is the
Speaker 2: girl who came to New York to have her cosmos
Speaker 2: and her Manolo's and it's not going quite right. But
Speaker 2: she was so wonderful, and she added something that the
Speaker 2: three of us didn't have on our own, and so
Speaker 2: it became a four person delio. And so I tried
Speaker 2: to make it three women. I tried to put it
Speaker 2: in a different city. But the fact is is that
Speaker 2: New York is where it was supposed to happen, and
Speaker 2: four women just somehow there's a symmetry to it that
Speaker 2: doesn't Gee.
Speaker 1: Star, be damned, I'm going to do.
Speaker 2: I couldn't help it. I couldn't help it. And so
Speaker 2: but the fact is that you know, sext and City
Speaker 2: is a specter that hangs over in a I mean
Speaker 2: in a positive way. Everything when female centric, and you know,
Speaker 2: in the writer's room, every there were so many episodes
Speaker 2: of Sex and City and they tackled every area of
Speaker 2: sexual function and dysfunction that there's almost nothing you can
Speaker 2: pitch that they haven't done.
Speaker 1: But I found that the women on Sex in the City,
Speaker 1: that those women would have things happen, and they tended
Speaker 1: to brush off the consequences pretty quickly. Yeah, whereas the
Speaker 1: girls on your show, the tone seems very different. Everybody
Speaker 1: seems to almost be doubting what they're doing, or they
Speaker 1: have a kind of a sense of fear or anxiety
Speaker 1: about it. While they're doing it, it seems more real. Was
Speaker 1: that deliberate in your part? Well, something I.
Speaker 2: Feel about being in your twenties, which is different than
Speaker 2: you know. Sex and the City was a show about
Speaker 2: women in their thirties who had successful careers pre recession,
Speaker 2: the best, most supportive friends. They didn't have. I mean,
Speaker 2: they had little friend TIFFs. But the characters on our
Speaker 2: show are tortured. It's sort of impossible to get through
Speaker 2: your twenties without It's like, if you ask a girl
Speaker 2: in her twenties, are you a happy person? I think
Speaker 2: she can say I have happy moments, but I don't
Speaker 2: think it's possible. Maybe I'm maybe people will radically disagree
Speaker 2: with me, but I don't really think it's possible to
Speaker 2: be sort of an at peace human when you are
Speaker 2: between twenty two and thirty, and so I think there's
Speaker 2: dot I don't because I think.
Speaker 1: That's a problem that I mean for me. One thing
Speaker 1: that I noticed when I went to college, which is
Speaker 1: a long time ago, an interesting number of people they
Speaker 1: really knew what they wanted to be, they weren't quite
Speaker 1: sure how to get there. They had a dream. I
Speaker 1: want to become a lawyer, I want to become a doctor.
Speaker 1: I want to go into politics. I want to go
Speaker 1: into and now people today it seems like younger people
Speaker 1: really they think they have more time to figure it out.
Speaker 1: You're turning twenty five, and they really don't have that
Speaker 1: picture and focus. Do you agree?
Speaker 2: I do agree, And I think a big part of
Speaker 2: it is being I think the Internet has cracked things
Speaker 2: open in a way that's both beautiful and that it
Speaker 2: helps you find. There's so many things that I never
Speaker 2: would have even known about, things that have been huge
Speaker 2: for me that have existed because of the Internet. And
Speaker 2: I think that I've been able to partially connect with
Speaker 2: people who would be fans of the show because of
Speaker 2: the Internet. I think, you know, it's always exciting when
Speaker 2: like there's this website called rookiemag dot com that's run
Speaker 2: by this girl, Tavi Jevnson, and it's a smart teen
Speaker 2: magazine that exists only on the Internet. And I just
Speaker 2: think if when I was a teenager there had been
Speaker 2: that place and that message board, I would have felt
Speaker 2: like the world was my oyster like just meeting other
Speaker 2: weirdo girls who had the same who like you know whatever.
Speaker 2: At the time, I just wanted to talk to someone
Speaker 2: about Connor Oberst or something on the Internet, and that
Speaker 2: would have been possible. But I think now the fact
Speaker 2: that like the Internet has created so many strange specialized
Speaker 2: jobs and so many things where it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm a brand consultant, slash blog enhancer or whatever. People
Speaker 2: are like, suddenly the world feels wide open, but there
Speaker 2: are less jobs available, and so it's a really confusing
Speaker 2: moment to make any decisive choice about what you want
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that the Internet is responsible for that,
Speaker 1: and then idea of having too many choices than you
Speaker 1: need you wind up bout.
Speaker 2: That could also be a metaphor for like men in
Speaker 2: their twenties dating. I feel like men in their twenties
Speaker 2: like I once had dated a guy who told me
Speaker 2: that he didn't feel like he could be serious about
Speaker 2: anyone in New York because it would be like eating
Speaker 2: at the same restaurant every night in New York, Right,
Speaker 2: there's so many amazing choices. It's New York City.
Speaker 1: I hope he choked some whatever a restaurant to go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that. That's me that's wrong.
Speaker 2: I feel like that, so it's helpful to have it
Speaker 2: backed up by Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to here's the
Speaker 1: thing more in a minute. Lena Dunham didn't have to
Speaker 1: look far to come up with her character on Girls.
Speaker 2: Physically, I'd say Hannah is. I mean, she's me because
Speaker 2: I play her. But it's funny because she's chubby, but
Speaker 2: she doesn't. That's not where her anxiety comes from. Like
Speaker 2: she's just not I like playing a character who doesn't
Speaker 2: have a perfect body, but that's not the main source
Speaker 2: of their anxiety. I feel like we have very few
Speaker 2: female characters on television who don't look like models and
Speaker 2: aren't constantly discussing it. So of course Hannah has her
Speaker 2: moments of self conscientiousness, just like every woman does, but
Speaker 2: that's not She sort of doesn't notice that her clothes
Speaker 2: don't quite fit. She sort of doesn't think about what
Speaker 2: she eats.
Speaker 1: It's and I have closed her just to cover you
Speaker 1: up and keep you warm, exactly. They have some degree
Speaker 1: of style to the grain, but less.
Speaker 2: Like a character exactly. And I like she's more interested
Speaker 2: in like whether her clothes are funny and witty, like
Speaker 2: I don't think she really cares about being sexy. She's
Speaker 2: more just like, oh, this dress like has owls on it?
Speaker 2: How sweet? I used to be much in college. I
Speaker 2: dressed like a complete lone. I feel like my dad
Speaker 2: always told me, I look the golon tamer all the time.
Speaker 2: I've calmed down just because I realized that you could
Speaker 2: vests with so many vests, red vest, so many red vests,
Speaker 2: so many like you know, strained boots pulled over my
Speaker 2: weird leggings with a three flounced skirt. I could never
Speaker 2: accessorize enough. It was oppressive. But in the Luftwaffa, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And so so that's Hannah's sort of physical I think emotionally,
Speaker 2: some facets of Hannah are that she is, you know,
Speaker 2: she has a certain amount of wit and a certain
Speaker 2: amount of sort of spunk, but she isn't really applying
Speaker 2: it anywhere properly yet. And she's also.
Speaker 1: Smart and funny and not mean because a lot of
Speaker 1: the people in that world and the improvisational comedy were
Speaker 1: oh my god and funny in there me and that
Speaker 1: meanness is the font that it comes from. Is that source?
Speaker 2: I know and you know the thing about Firstly, my
Speaker 2: dad is like a manner's Nazi. So I think that
Speaker 2: I grew up feeling like the worst thing you could
Speaker 2: do was offend somehow.
Speaker 1: Sit up straight in that chair, and your dad told
Speaker 1: me to say that.
Speaker 2: I know, Oh my god, my dad still tells me
Speaker 2: to sit up straight constantly.
Speaker 1: I'm going to call it.
Speaker 2: And then and it's funny because both my dad is
Speaker 2: an artist and he paints these sort of outlandish intense
Speaker 2: I mean, he paints things that are pretty pretty sexual images,
Speaker 2: pretty aggressive images, you know, a man with a I mean,
Speaker 2: they're funny, but they're intents. It's like two men with
Speaker 2: penises for noses in a war with guns and knives
Speaker 2: with three women.
Speaker 1: Grew up around this, is around it.
Speaker 2: But it was what was interesting was that my dad
Speaker 2: was sort of like you.
Speaker 1: Can do girls. I know, dad had penises on his face, on.
Speaker 2: His face, on every face, but you know, you I
Speaker 2: grew up around it. But I think that my dad
Speaker 2: always really showed me that there was a difference between
Speaker 2: you know, what your work was and who you were.
Speaker 2: And he's so my parents are so polite and so
Speaker 2: sort of they just I think so much of this. Again,
Speaker 2: I've never had kids. I've you know, I don't know
Speaker 2: what that feels like. But I think, how old are
Speaker 2: you know? I'm twenty six and I want kids, but
Speaker 2: I'm not ready. No, please, I really.
Speaker 1: I just tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I just got a doctor.
Speaker 1: We already have birth control pills for you.
Speaker 2: Seriously, no kids now. I don't want kids. I just
Speaker 2: got adoption. Everybody things I'm insane. I just finished season two.
Speaker 2: Season three. Well, we're starting season three and we're starting
Speaker 2: at the end of March, so exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to come and play yours therapist.
Speaker 2: That would be the most fun thing in the world.
Speaker 2: It's bad, bad, bad, But I forget what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad you don't think.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: I get too guilty if I ever make a mean joke,
Speaker 2: like appreciate what I'm saying, I do, well, I'm terrified.
Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons I don't I don't really
Speaker 2: feel like a comedy writer, because there's sort of like
Speaker 2: a quickness and a harshness, and you need.
Speaker 1: To have those people in your bullpen there. Do you
Speaker 1: have some more really traditional edgier We do have.
Speaker 2: I have a couple of writers on the staff, one
Speaker 2: Murray Miller, who this season was really essential in sort
Speaker 2: of bringing us just hard jokes, But no one on
Speaker 2: our staff has that particular kind of darkness. I've been
Speaker 2: around a lot of those comedy writers, and you know,
Speaker 2: there's that feeling of like even when they're saying something
Speaker 2: nice to you, they're kind of trying to murder you
Speaker 2: with their eyeballs, and it's.
Speaker 1: It's it becomes too much salt to the soup exactly.
Speaker 2: It's impressive to me in small doses, but terrifying.
Speaker 1: You've got to have it, but you've got to mix
Speaker 1: it carefully. Like when we did our show that was
Speaker 1: that was a big issue where like sometimes I would say,
Speaker 1: I just think this is too mean, Like we're going
Speaker 1: to lose people like we want to be we want
Speaker 1: to be mean, but we have to decide who we're
Speaker 1: going to be mean too. It's true who deserves it.
Speaker 2: My thing is also I always I only really make
Speaker 2: jokes about people I like, Like when there's a joke
Speaker 2: that references a celebrity on the show, it's usually a
Speaker 2: joke that I'm making because I have really taken note
Speaker 2: of their work and have fascinated by.
Speaker 1: It's not because you slept with them and you want
Speaker 1: to get even with them.
Speaker 2: No, I don't have that instinct.
Speaker 1: So talk about two things. The level of control you have.
Speaker 1: I mean, you are a very young woman, and I'm
Speaker 1: assuming it's all you correct, I mean it is.
Speaker 2: I mean I work with Jenny and Judd really closely,
Speaker 2: and I definitely I think I'm constantly sort of telling
Speaker 2: myself I have bosses around. It kind of comforts me.
Speaker 2: I mean, and you don't, do you not exactly. I
Speaker 2: have collaborators. I have collaborators, but I have collaborators who
Speaker 2: I take really seriously and who you need and who
Speaker 2: I need and who I would never I think the
Speaker 2: minute you get an attitude like it's my show, the
Speaker 2: ship runs on duneam and my way or the highway,
Speaker 2: I think it's broken exactly. I think you still want
Speaker 2: to feel a little fear when you share a script
Speaker 2: with your collaborations. You want to go I hope they
Speaker 2: like this. I'm going to listen to them. When they don't,
Speaker 2: I still feel tremendously indebted to them and anxious about
Speaker 2: their reactions. And I never feel like, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: the big boss and you guys can all get with
Speaker 2: it or leave.
Speaker 1: So when so the Hannah character you start out, I
Speaker 1: mean in tiny Furniture, I almost feel like tiny.
Speaker 4: Furniture is it's.
Speaker 1: You. You. You may become one of these actresses now
Speaker 1: where it's all one series. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: It kind of is. It's funny when I look at
Speaker 2: any character I've played in anything that I've made, it's you,
Speaker 2: it's me, and it's it's funny. I've never played anyone
Speaker 2: whose name doesn't end with a I've made. I've written
Speaker 2: all these characters who because I always have to have
Speaker 2: a name that I think sort of like is.
Speaker 1: In the world name it's the two double syllables.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Someone said to me to be a famous star, you
Speaker 1: need to have two double syllable names.
Speaker 2: You do, do you?
Speaker 1: Or two monos? But Sean Penn, Marlon Brando.
Speaker 2: My mom did tell me that she gave me my name,
Speaker 2: which is so funny because it's not like we have
Speaker 2: any actors in her family. My mom said, I'm named
Speaker 2: after my Russian gret Grad. And my mom said, but
Speaker 2: when she named me, she thought, I don't know what
Speaker 2: she'll want to do. But this is a great name
Speaker 2: if she does want to be a movie star. That
Speaker 2: was what my mom thought, which is so funny because
Speaker 2: it's not like my mom's some crazy stage mom or
Speaker 2: like is she she's a photographer and.
Speaker 1: She's what's the source of your real close to the start,
Speaker 1: to the extent you can say, I don't.
Speaker 2: Want to prob oh, no, I don't mind. I've clearly
Speaker 2: I don't mind. We are very similar in ways that
Speaker 2: can be delightful and can be maddening. Something I like
Speaker 2: about both my parents, and I'd imagine you're like this
Speaker 2: with kids too. Is they really talked to me like
Speaker 2: I was an adult always? And I love that And
Speaker 2: I love I love talking to kids like their adults
Speaker 2: because it's like they kind of come alive when you
Speaker 2: just ask them real questions. And yes, my mom always
Speaker 2: really let me into her world. And I'm working right now,
Speaker 2: I'll talk to in ten minutes, And just having that
Speaker 2: kind of access to her was amazing. Yeah, And I've
Speaker 2: just always thought she was the coolest, and it's funny
Speaker 2: and it's nice to see it echoed because all my
Speaker 2: friends think she's the coolest too.
Speaker 1: Now you're going to do how many seasons of the
Speaker 1: show are you signed on to do well?
Speaker 2: You know, it's not clear. I mean HBO contractually has me,
Speaker 2: I think as an actor for six years, but as
Speaker 2: a writer, and I wish I should pay more attention
Speaker 2: to my deals. But I'm just so excited to have
Speaker 2: my job. I just go, okay, whatever you say. But
Speaker 2: I think my dream world is that, you know, I
Speaker 2: want to kind of follow like you know, how British
Speaker 2: shows always know British shows and thirty Rock always know
Speaker 2: just when to get off the air.
Speaker 1: The question becomes how you can maybe you know, do
Speaker 1: that TV show? And the schedule is how many months.
Speaker 2: We do it?
Speaker 1: Well, how many episodes.
Speaker 2: We've been doing ten? I think between you, me and McGee,
Speaker 2: I think we might do twelve next year, right, But
Speaker 2: I would love that. I don't want to, like, I
Speaker 2: don't have any desire in doing like, you know, a
Speaker 2: twenty two episode. I don't even understand how someone does
Speaker 2: the twenty two episode marathon. But I do think that
Speaker 2: doing I think that a little more would be just
Speaker 2: a little more storytelling real estate and it'd be amazing.
Speaker 2: But you know, so I shoot four four and a
Speaker 2: half months out of the year, then I'm editing and
Speaker 2: I'm doing press that I'm writing. Then I'm back. So
Speaker 2: so it's not four and a half months, so it's
Speaker 2: not it's safe months. It's actually more like twelve months.
Speaker 2: And so would you make.
Speaker 1: A movie during the breakfast now?
Speaker 2: No, I couldn't because there was just no time. I
Speaker 2: finished shooting in August, I was editing.
Speaker 1: Why don't you make a deal with HBO with all
Speaker 1: financi your films, so you're working for them in its
Speaker 1: olin house.
Speaker 2: It's very smart. I mean, I really want to make
Speaker 2: a movie. I have two features scripts that I've been
Speaker 2: working on that I just I want to make another
Speaker 2: before I make like a big, massive ambitious movie. I mean,
Speaker 2: I want to make a creatively ambitious movie. But I
Speaker 2: want to make another small movie I have. I have
Speaker 2: small movie idea.
Speaker 1: Do you have a massive ambitious movie inside you? I do,
Speaker 1: but it's I you have an idea?
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: But it's so weird, fifty four year old psychotherapist that.
Speaker 2: There's there's a fifty four year old somebody And I mean.
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you later in the traffic controller.
Speaker 2: Working with you is one of my long standing dreams.
Speaker 2: But I am and I'm also I'm writing a book.
Speaker 2: So that's something that.
Speaker 1: Was really well I heard about that.
Speaker 2: It's something that was really important to me to start
Speaker 2: doing it at this point in my career.
Speaker 1: Starn And you write and produce your own TV show
Speaker 1: and you're writing a book. H Who did that remind
Speaker 1: me of? What are you gonna write a book about?
Speaker 2: I'm writing a book. Well, I guess it's about me,
Speaker 2: although it's a little less about me because it also
Speaker 2: has advice an advice component, but it's like personal essays.
Speaker 1: So is it like Paula Pell's Hey Young Girls?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love Hey Young Girls. Makes me
Speaker 2: so happy. Paula Pel is funny. Paula Pel is someone
Speaker 2: who's funny and not mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Paula Pel's I mean to the right people.
Speaker 2: She's just a dreamy person. But you know, the thing
Speaker 2: that's been so great about writing the book is I've
Speaker 2: always loved writing prose, and I wanted to make it
Speaker 2: a part of my career sooner rather than later, because
Speaker 2: I didn't want it to be like when I decided
Speaker 2: to write a book in ten years, it was like, oh, look,
Speaker 2: here's a celebrity memoir. Number fifty seven I wanted it
Speaker 2: to really feel like I'm a person who writes prose
Speaker 2: and that it's a part of my life and career
Speaker 2: for a long time.
Speaker 1: But unlike other people that are writing books, they don't
Speaker 1: have TV shows that they're starring in and writing. When
Speaker 1: you're done doing now not just ten but twelve episodes,
Speaker 1: what do you have left to go into the book?
Speaker 2: There's stuff that's just for the book.
Speaker 1: There's still an example.
Speaker 2: Well, likewise, I write a lot about my childhood in
Speaker 2: the book. I write a lot about my parents. I
Speaker 2: write a lot about college and sort of like that,
Speaker 2: I write a lot about that period. I write a
Speaker 2: lot about sort of the beginning of being sexual person.
Speaker 2: I write about relationships. I'm writing a lot about sort
Speaker 2: of female role model I.
Speaker 1: Want to say about sexuality.
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I've had to become more conscious about what
Speaker 2: I say and what I promote. Not in a way
Speaker 2: that stifles me, but just in a way where I
Speaker 2: realize now that there are seventeen year old girls who
Speaker 2: come up to me and tell me that the show
Speaker 2: means a lot to them, and.
Speaker 1: This show one percent of your audience is influenced. This
Speaker 1: is what I learned from someone one percent of your
Speaker 1: one percent is genuinely and in any way influenced by
Speaker 1: what you do and say. That's still tens of thousands
Speaker 1: of people.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. It's an amazing thing. And it's like it's
Speaker 2: a platform that you have to take seriously, which is
Speaker 2: why sometimes it's like I used to be really into Rihanna,
Speaker 2: that pop star, and then it was like again, I
Speaker 2: don't want to ever, you know, throw stones from my glasshouse,
Speaker 2: but I follow her on Instagram and I just think
Speaker 2: about how many little girls, beyond what I could even comprehend,
Speaker 2: are obsessed with Rihanna, Like, you know, she left Barbados,
Speaker 2: she's had this amazing career, she's you know, one Grammy,
Speaker 2: she's talented, and then she gets back together with Chris
Speaker 2: Brown and posts a million pictures of them smoking marijuana
Speaker 2: together on a bed, and it cracks my heart in
Speaker 2: half in a way that makes me feel.
Speaker 1: Like I'm nicety Chris Brown smoking pot.
Speaker 2: No, because she got back together, was going, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: you guys, you made a really good joke, and I
Speaker 2: got too emotional and in my response, yeah, because I
Speaker 2: want to that's here. It's terrible, mean enough, it's terrible.
Speaker 1: So you are as a role model. What won't Hannah
Speaker 1: or the other girls in the quartet do?
Speaker 2: Jenny and I talk about this a lot. We won't
Speaker 2: fuck someone because they have a nice apartment. There's not
Speaker 2: going to be any version of sort of like prostuding yourself.
Speaker 2: There's not going to be any version of dating somebody
Speaker 2: because he can take you out to nice dinner.
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, you're putting down my whole playbook. This is
Speaker 1: all I have left. Wait a second. That is so
Speaker 1: wrong of you.
Speaker 2: Come on, it's interesting. I have so many friends who
Speaker 2: are so sort of tortured by their romantic relationships, and
Speaker 2: I think such a big part of it is that
Speaker 2: the desires of young men and young women are not
Speaker 2: caught up with each other.
Speaker 1: And I say to my wife, I do want to
Speaker 1: eat in the same restaurant every night, but I want
Speaker 1: the hostess to wear a different outfit every night. Perfect.
Speaker 1: But so you say they won't monetize sex.
Speaker 2: They won't monetize sex, And it's like even more subtle
Speaker 2: than that, Like, I don't like a storyline that's like
Speaker 2: unless it's really saying something about where characters at. I
Speaker 2: don't like a storyline that's like, you know, he bought
Speaker 2: me an entire trousseau of dresses, and so I'm his forever.
Speaker 2: Like that's just not the way that I want to
Speaker 2: idealize anything. I think that the characters, the characters can
Speaker 2: make mistakes, but they have to be emotionally responsible for
Speaker 2: the things that they've done. I don't ever want to
Speaker 2: like have a makeover scenario where someone's doing better after
Speaker 2: they've put on a great dress and you know, straight
Speaker 2: ironed their hair. Like I just there's it's a really
Speaker 2: instinctual thing, but it's just a feeling a balance. I
Speaker 2: want women. This is so kind of Hippi tippy, but
Speaker 2: I want them to make their own choice. I want
Speaker 2: them to I don't want people to live in service
Speaker 2: to sort of what television things they should look like,
Speaker 2: or what their family things they should act.
Speaker 1: How much do you think that women, because this is
Speaker 1: a very sensitive topic, I mean because I'm I'm not
Speaker 1: going to go Norman Mailer here, but I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, the interesting thing for society is if women
Speaker 1: have been allowed to make their own choices for the
Speaker 1: most part, for the last forty years, or at least
Speaker 1: for the last twenty five and that's reaped enormous benefits
Speaker 1: for society. I mean, forget about just women. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, women are the only ones who can
Speaker 1: have children, true, and therefore in the way that we're
Speaker 1: trying to in the traditional family or even in a
Speaker 1: gay family where a man and two guys want to
Speaker 1: have a baby with a woman, or two women want
Speaker 1: to have a child together, that balance of career and
Speaker 1: ambition and so forth with family is that something that
Speaker 1: you struggle with some numbers you even think that.
Speaker 2: Struggling, But I mean I think about it all the
Speaker 2: time actually because I'm.
Speaker 1: Because you're the product of a happy home, yeah.
Speaker 2: And I want all that you want to replicate that totally.
Speaker 2: I was raised to think that the two most important
Speaker 2: things you could do in your life were have a passionate,
Speaker 2: generous relationship to your work and to raise children. And
Speaker 2: so you still feel that way, and I do still
Speaker 2: feel that you want to have children big time. I'm
Speaker 2: so excited. I don't want like to jolly pit the
Speaker 2: whole situation, but like, like at least two and I
Speaker 2: think all the time about it's funny exactly. I might
Speaker 2: got Jenny Connor's daughter, Coco, who's eight and is my
Speaker 2: dear friend. We like to go out to see live
Speaker 2: music together. Coco one day was like, when do you
Speaker 2: think you're going to have children? Just roughly, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I don't know, Coco, Like, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: twenty six, so I'd like to wait till I'm like
Speaker 2: at least thirty. And she was like, at that point,
Speaker 2: I think you should not be working on girls. And
Speaker 2: if you are working on girls, you're going to have
Speaker 2: to cut your hours down to like eight thirty to
Speaker 2: six because you need to be able to be there
Speaker 2: when they wake up, and you also need to be
Speaker 2: there with them at nice issue. Yeah, and she, basically
Speaker 2: an eight year old, started to school me in the
Speaker 2: way that my lifestyle would not allow for children. She
Speaker 2: was like, you know your boy My boyfriend's a musician
Speaker 2: and he tours a lot. And she was like and
Speaker 2: she was like, he might have to quit his job.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't think he's going to
Speaker 2: quit his job. Well, that might be hard for you too.
Speaker 2: You might have to really talk about it. And even
Speaker 2: just now, I just adopted a dog and I was
Speaker 2: really really it was like instead of just meeting a dog,
Speaker 2: thinking it was adorable and bringing it home. It was
Speaker 2: this tortured thing of like, am I gonna be able
Speaker 2: to give it what it needs? And what if it
Speaker 2: resents me? And at a certain point my mom, who
Speaker 2: is really ready to play dog grandma and is playing
Speaker 2: to spend a lot of time with the dog, was
Speaker 2: like she was like, Lena, it's a fucking dog. She
Speaker 2: was like, it's at a certain point she was like,
Speaker 2: I get it. I'm glad you're thinking it through, but like,
Speaker 2: this is not like adopting twins now.
Speaker 1: Two things that I think are kind of connected, which
Speaker 1: is how do men present themselves? You have a boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to prior to your personal life,
Speaker 1: but you how do men present themselves too differently? You
Speaker 1: said that Hannah was this and that and a chubby
Speaker 1: girl who did and now you're now the name Lena
Speaker 1: Dunham means something else to people. How do men present
Speaker 1: themselves to you now different from the way they used to?
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I mean, I'm so bad at knowing if
Speaker 2: anybody's hitting on me, Like someone literally has to like
Speaker 2: beat me on the head with a drumstick and me
Speaker 2: back to their cave for me to understand that it's
Speaker 2: going on, and then I would, and then they then,
Speaker 2: and then I didn't hire Gloria Alred as my attorney.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. But you know, the thing is is that
Speaker 2: sleazy people are attracted to and sleazy people and not
Speaker 2: sleazy people are attracted to any sense of GRAVI toss
Speaker 2: that someone might have. So so I definitely have had more.
Speaker 2: I mean, I definitely have had felt less ignored by
Speaker 2: the opposite sex. But I'm also so bad at perceiving
Speaker 2: any of it. And so did you know your boyfriend
Speaker 2: liked to Well, we got set up on a blind date,
Speaker 2: so I knew he liked well. I didn't know he
Speaker 2: liked me, but he was predisposed. He was predisposed to
Speaker 2: like me because what we were going on was a date.
Speaker 2: And then that was a special situation because I went, oh,
Speaker 2: I think he likes me, and I like him, And.
Speaker 1: Tell me if you don't want answer this question, but
Speaker 1: I just find it charming. Where did you go on
Speaker 1: your first date with your boyfriend?
Speaker 2: We went to Blue Ribbon Bakery in the West Village.
Speaker 2: And the reason I was happy is because I find
Speaker 2: picking a restaurant so anxiety producing, because I feel like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the lemma a burdens ass. It really is.
Speaker 2: And also, what if I choose the wrong restaurant and
Speaker 2: you have a bad association with it or you think
Speaker 2: I'm pretty much.
Speaker 1: Poorly on me?
Speaker 2: Exactly, it's just the worst. And like what if we
Speaker 2: go there and you don't like a brand muffin? Exactly,
Speaker 2: it's stressful. So he said, before I even had to
Speaker 2: say anything, he said, if it's stressful for you, I
Speaker 2: can pick the restaurant. And I felt like, okay, I'm
Speaker 2: going to be in great hands.
Speaker 1: Where did you pick?
Speaker 2: And then you picked Blue room Maker? And then I
Speaker 2: ate a cheese and then I ordered a hamburger and
Speaker 2: he said, I think you should get cheese on it.
Speaker 2: It's not nice.
Speaker 1: And you went, oh my god, I'm home.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's easy.
Speaker 3: I was so glad you like, did my mom call
Speaker 3: you for this date?
Speaker 1: And let you know, cheese? I like Yarlsburg exactly, somebody
Speaker 1: suggesting burger and then and then and now you've been
Speaker 1: dating it for a while, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like almost a year. It's been. He's a very very
Speaker 2: great person.
Speaker 1: To meet you and tell me if I'm onto something here.
Speaker 1: You seem like someone that regardless of what you look
Speaker 1: like or didn't look like, or what you had or
Speaker 1: didn't have. Whoever you were, you have a very very
Speaker 1: healthy and kind of guileless sense of who you are
Speaker 1: and you present it yourself to people your entire life,
Speaker 1: going this is who I am, and if you like me, great,
Speaker 1: and if you don't, there's another six point five billion
Speaker 1: people out there to go for it. Am I right?
Speaker 2: I mean that's the most stress to me. That's the
Speaker 2: most lovely way of putting it. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: I think I always had a feeling like if you
Speaker 2: just stick around and continue to be yourself, the correct
Speaker 2: people will find you. And that's something that's been so
Speaker 2: wonderful about the show is that it kind of confirmed
Speaker 2: that for me, which is not everyone watches it, but
Speaker 2: the people who watch it understand it. And that feeling
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've had this before of uniting with your
Speaker 2: appropriate audience and sort of uniting with your people is
Speaker 2: like about as comforting as feelings get.
Speaker 1: You too, can unite comfortably with Lena Dunham over the
Speaker 1: unique discomfort of being a woman in your twenties. Today.
Speaker 1: Girls is on Sunday nights on HBO. I'm ac Baldwin,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Is brought to you by iHeart Radio