1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Al Zone Media. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 2: Welcome to Ick It Happened Here. I'm your host Bio 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: Wong with me as James Stout by me. Hello, this 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 2: is a podcast about things falling apart putting it back 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: together again. For the rest of this week, we are 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: going to be going to our live correspondence from a 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 2: Democratic National Convention. We're going to be getting a bunch 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 2: of episodes from from the floor. We're you're gonna you're 9 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: gonna be hearing all about all. 10 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 3: Of the sort of excitement. 11 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: But for sort of day one of our DNC convention, 12 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: I thought we'd do something a little bit different, and 13 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: that is, I want to take a look back at 14 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: the convention that I think most people have been thinking 15 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: is the most similar to this one, which is the 16 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight Democratic National Convention, which is also a 17 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: convention that featured large anti war protests and the vice 18 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: president of an extremely unpopular president who was waging an 19 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: unpopular war seized control of the nomination. I mean, and 20 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: you know, and the parallels. I mean, you know, there's 21 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: occupations at college. I mean right down to the one 22 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: that I think I've seen it. I haven't seen anyone 23 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: else talk about. Is that one of the big uprisings 24 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty eight is in Pakistan, and particularly in 25 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 2: the part of Pakistan that is now Bangladesh. We are 26 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 2: about a week ish, maybe two weeks removed from an 27 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: enormous uprising of Bangladesh that just knocked out their political leadership. 28 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: So you know, there are lots of sort of nineteen 29 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 2: sixty eight vibes in the air. 30 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 4: It's not unsimilar, but it's also not the same, as 31 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 4: I'm sure I'm about to find out. 32 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think in some sense, and we'll get 33 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 2: to this board as the episode progresses, but in some sense, 34 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: sixty eight parts of it are sort of an inversion 35 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: of what's happening now, and parts of it are an 36 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 2: interesting case study in having the same pieces but having 37 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: them fit into totally different configurations, And because of that, 38 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: the results are going to be I think, very, very 39 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: staggerlarly different. Yeah, And I think maybe the primary difference 40 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: is that really the nineteen sixty eight Democratic Convention does 41 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: not start in the US at all. It starts in 42 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: Vietnam on Vietnamese New Years, and it really starts with 43 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: the tet Offensive. So for people who have forgotten this 44 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: from their history, classes, like, so maybe some of you 45 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: are around for this. 46 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 5: I don't know. 47 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: Statistically probably not, but I don't know. Maybe there's a 48 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 3: few old timers here yea. 49 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 2: So the Tet Offensive is this massive attack by the 50 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: viet Cong a's roar of North Vietnamese forces on New 51 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: Years of Well technically it's like Gener's sick because the 52 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: calendar dates are off. But it's this massive attack on 53 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: American positions. It's an attempt really to sort of seize 54 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: control of South Vietnam. It doesn't really work militarily because, 55 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: and this is an interesting kind of display of bad judgment. 56 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 2: The North Vietnamese leadership bizarrely makes almost exactly the same 57 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 2: mistake that the Americans are going to make from the 58 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 2: invasion of Iraq, which is that they are under the 59 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: assumption that, you know, their attack would trigger a series 60 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 2: of urban revolts that would like drive out the corrupt 61 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 2: Vietnamese South Vietnamese like puppet governments, and like run the Americans. 62 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 3: Out of the country. And that doesn't happen. There's no uprisings. 63 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 2: The viet Cong take a bunch of grounds, but unbelievable 64 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: numbers of their calldurators are just wiped out by the 65 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: sums of good American counterattack. But it didn't matter at all, 66 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: because what the head offensive really did was instantly revealed 67 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: to everyone in the US that LBJ and every previous 68 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: American administration had been lying to them about the Vietnam War. 69 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: In the wake of these attacks, it is instantly clear 70 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: that the US is not winning the war. They are 71 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: not making steady progress against the Communists. They are at 72 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: best locked in a grinding stalemate against an enemy with 73 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: a capacity to launch attacks that could again temporarily like 74 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: run the US out of cities, right, Yeah, and this 75 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: craters lbj's popularity. His popularity is in the thirties. 76 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 5: Oh damn, yeah, when incumbent. 77 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: That's yeah, it's really really bad. It's I mean, he's 78 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: like thirty six percents he is. He is staggeringly, staggeringly unpopular. 79 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: And you know, the tet offensive also in some sense validates, 80 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: particularly the sort of radical wing of the anti war movements. 81 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 2: You know, I think people remember the anti war movement 82 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: today is this purely this sort of like hyper militant 83 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: students for Democratic Society to the draft card burning stuff, 84 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: and there was that, but those people for the early 85 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 2: especially the early sixties leading up to this point, and 86 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 2: even even Dream sixty eight are a minority. 87 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 3: Right. 88 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: Most of the anti war people are sort of older, 89 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: like anti nuclear activists, people who come up in the forties, 90 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: people who'd you know, been through the Red Scare and 91 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: are these sort of hyper vigilant liberals. And these people 92 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: thought that they could work with LBJ to end the war. 93 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 3: Right. 94 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: LBJ comes in not like quite explicitly promising to end 95 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: the but he comes in as the candidate who's not 96 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: you know, who's not literally threatening the bombs I gone. 97 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 2: And then he turns around a bombs I gone. And 98 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 2: so this moment the tet offensive is this moment where 99 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: the radical wing of the anti woman is vindicated. Right, 100 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: LBJ has been lying to them the whole time. All 101 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: of the sort of negotiations that people have been doing 102 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: have been a complete failure. And in the sort of 103 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: wake of this, there's a real sort of drive by 104 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: a couple of different anti war factions to stage a 105 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: protests at the Democratic National Convention for what you know, 106 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: to protest what everyone assumes is going to be the 107 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 2: coronation of LBJ. There are two different kind of umbrellas 108 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: of groups. I guess you could call it who wind 109 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 2: up at sixty eight? And this is something that we 110 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 2: aren't gonna have now because neither of these two kinds 111 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 2: of things really exists anymore. The first of these groups 112 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 2: are the politically serious hard lighters. They are organized into 113 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: this unbelievably large coalition of hundreds of groups called National. 114 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam. 115 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: Nobody says that because it's it's so long, Everyone then 116 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: and now just calls it MOB or sometimes mobilization, but 117 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 2: everyone in the writing just calls them MOOBE, and MOBE 118 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 2: is one of the groups that's been getting more radical 119 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: by sixty eight. But again, the Students for a Democratic Society, 120 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 2: who are kind of the sixties parallel to the DSA, 121 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: if you're going to sort of dose these directly one 122 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: to one lines, right, are a minority. And also STS 123 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: basically leaves MOB to focus on other kinds of organizing. 124 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 2: So the STS is going to be around, they're going 125 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 2: to involved in this protest, but MOBE is kind of 126 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: not being ran by them. And MOB is also a 127 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: very complicated endeavor because again, these are big tent groups, right, 128 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 2: These are very very very big tent groups. You know, 129 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 2: the range from honestly sort of write liberal professional groups 130 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 2: who oppose the war to like one of the one 131 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 2: of the major leaders of MOBE in this period is 132 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: a senior member of the SWP, the Socialist Workers Party, 133 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: who are. 134 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 3: Like old school Trotsky eight group. 135 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 5: Right. 136 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's very very hard to get coalitions like 137 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: this to work, partially because of secretariat infighting over some 138 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: of it's over tactics, because a lot of there's a 139 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: lot of people in MOB who do not want militant confrontation. 140 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: They don't want there to be big confrontations with the police. 141 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 2: And then also, you know, these people just don't have 142 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: the same ends, right the SWP people are trying to 143 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 2: have a socialist revolution. There's other people in this group 144 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: who are trying to not have their tax dollars pay 145 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: for a war. 146 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 5: They'll get their kids drafted into a war. 147 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but MOB is the big anti war hub, right. 148 00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: With the exception of the group we're gonna talk about next, 149 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: almost all Edgibar activity in the country is running through ROBE, 150 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 2: just to some extent or another, because it's a coalition 151 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: of like all of those gifts we don't really have. 152 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 3: Anything like this anymore. 153 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: There are kind of the tattered remains of this stuff, 154 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: but they don't have the kind of poll the kind 155 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: of especially, they don't have the kind of organizational capacity 156 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 2: that this stuff had. 157 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not really like that. 158 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 4: There are a wide variety of people are posted to 159 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 4: genocide and Palestine, but they're not united under any even this. 160 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 4: There isn't like a popular front or a big tent 161 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 4: Yeah that really brings them together. Even in twenty twenties, 162 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 4: if you didn't really have like a a big tent org, 163 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 4: did we Like we had like BLM capital BLM five 164 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 4: oh one c three, But like that wasn't really like 165 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 4: an org that was that effective on the ground. 166 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 2: And that's a key component that's very very different about 167 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 2: you know about the sixty eight convention that the ones 168 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 2: gonna happen. You know, as as this comes out, it 169 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: will be day one of that convention. The terrain of 170 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 2: groups who are opposed to it are staggeringly different. 171 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 3: This kind of stuff. 172 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: We just don't have it anymore now. Part of what 173 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 2: MOB is struggling to do, and this is something that 174 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: some of the things they're dealing with, the things that 175 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 2: we don't deal with now. Some of them are things 176 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: that we deal with all the time. 177 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 3: Now. 178 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: One of the big ones is they're trying to develop 179 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: what eventually is going to be called the diversity of tactics. 180 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: So they're trying to have protests that you can have 181 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: three hundred thousand people and most of those people could 182 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: be sitting around having a picnic. And then there's also 183 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: a bunch of people who are like fighting the police 184 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: in the front. 185 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 3: Right. 186 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 2: We are I think sort of largely familiar with this 187 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 2: kind of from twenty twenty. 188 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, and the police take ASTs everyone. 189 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 190 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: Wellh So this comes to another very important part about this, 191 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 2: which is that mob, even in the planning stages, even 192 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: the radicals, are not trying to fight the cops. 193 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 5: Right. 194 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: Nobody wants to do it because everyone is terrified about 195 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: Chicago's reaction to the Holy Week Uprising. Though we talked 196 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: about the Holy Week Uprising in another episode, very briefly, 197 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: it's a massive series of riots and uprisings that follow 198 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: the assassination of mart Luther King. There's a particularly bad 199 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 2: one in Chicago where Mayor Daily is so pissed off 200 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: that he goes on TV and gives a speech where 201 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: he tells his cops to shoot and maim people they 202 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: could accuse of. 203 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 5: Looting good stuff. 204 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: And you know, this goes over so badly that the 205 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: next day he's giving statements to the media saying he 206 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: never said this, but you know everyone saw him say it. 207 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: I'm live to me, so yeah, but people, people are 208 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 2: terrified because this is a period where the cops. 209 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 3: Really will shoot into crowds. 210 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 2: So, you know, everyone in the planning phases of this, 211 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: you know, I think most people broadly know how this 212 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 2: turns out, which is there's a bunch of street fighting 213 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 2: to police attack people. But none of the planners wanted that. 214 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: They were very, very deliberately trying to make sure there 215 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: weren't confrontations with the police, because, as it turns out, 216 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 2: these people are staggeringly unprepared for a confrontation with the cops. 217 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: I'm gonna read a quote from the very good book 218 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: Chicago sixty eight, which is a politically it's a bit questionable, 219 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 2: but it has an excruciatingly in depth account of these 220 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: I mean we're talking hour to hour rundowns of the 221 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: convention itself. You know, very well documented accounts of all 222 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: of the meetings that produce this. So I'm going to 223 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: read a quote this is about MO about their preparation 224 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 2: for the Chicago D and C protests. 225 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 3: Quote. 226 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: Some even wanted to warn perspective protesters that they should 227 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 2: bring protective clothing like helmets, bulky sweaters, and Ben Dan 228 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 2: Effertier gas, but it was decided that this might overly 229 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: alarm would be protesters. Great Now, again, this is MOBE. 230 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 2: They are supposed to be the serious organizers here, right. 231 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: The other group that we're going to talk about the Yippies, Like, 232 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: compared to the Yippies, these guys look like shock troopers, 233 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: and this is how unprepared they are. 234 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 235 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: Wow, Like, looking at this from. 236 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 2: Our perspective, these people are dangerous amateurs. They have no 237 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: idea what they're doing. They don't understand how to deal 238 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: with police at all. One of the other things that 239 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 2: happens is this is one of the first and early 240 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: deployment of so CS tear gas, right, And they have 241 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 2: a guy who'd been drafted into Vietnam was become a 242 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 2: Special Forces guy, who would you know, after we got out, 243 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 2: have become a leftist and he's telling them about this 244 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: gas and he's saying, yeah, we need to talk to 245 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: the So they were thinking that's going on here is 246 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: you can tell how early this is into the cycle 247 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: because they don't have dedicated to street medics. They have 248 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: basically a nurses association at doctor's association that they've gotten 249 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: to go get feel a better OG which is not bad, right, 250 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: but no, I mean that's great, but people need to 251 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 2: be aware of what they're getting into, and then the 252 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 2: medical places need to be aware of how they can 253 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 2: mitigate that. And the most people overrule this guy and 254 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: saying no, we're not going to tell the medical people 255 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: about the sort of solution thing he's talking about to 256 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 2: neutralize this gas. Right, these people are just staggeringly unprepared 257 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: for an actual police confrontation. And something you have to 258 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 2: keep in mind about about nineteen sixty eight America, right, 259 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 2: is that we have a very different sort of outlook 260 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 2: on the police and how you deal with the police 261 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: than these people. 262 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 5: Right. 263 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 2: We come from basically the decade of the street fight 264 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 2: since Occupy twenty eleven and really intensifying and Ferguson in 265 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen. There has been a straight decade between conversations 266 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 2: and the police. If you were out in the most 267 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: intense parts of twenty twenty, and statistically, if you're listening 268 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: to this show, you probably at least were out there 269 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 2: a little bit. 270 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 3: You have seen shit that these kids, like. 271 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 2: I call them kids, right, these people are in the 272 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 2: twenties and thirties, but you have seen shit that these 273 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: people cannot even imagine. 274 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 3: Right. 275 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: If you're looking back from our perspective, right, you know, 276 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 2: with the experience with the police that we have, you 277 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: can look back in the people and you could instantly 278 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 2: tell that they're going to get claubered. One of the 279 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: things I'm trying to do is they're trying to copy 280 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: some of the techniques from the Japanese student movement, which 281 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: is an infamously very probably the. 282 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 3: Best street fight in the world. 283 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're trying to copy their techniques and they 284 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: can't do it. And they're trying to do the snake 285 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 2: line thing to break police lines. They're all falling over 286 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 2: and so it's very it's very clear from art perspective 287 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: to this is going to be a fiasco. But these 288 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: people think that they understand how to manage the police. 289 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, the state's capacity for violence has increased 290 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 4: exponentially since then, Like you could kind of stand up 291 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 4: to the cops just by by staying in the streets, 292 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 4: you know, to a degree, I think it's probably this 293 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 4: is the beginning of the state sort of moving towards 294 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 4: arming itself to deny people access to public space in 295 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 4: that fashion, right, which we saw like if you grew 296 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 4: up at the time I did in Genoa, in Prague 297 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 4: and these g eight Summits, Kanku, all the different ones 298 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 4: right at Octorada, Like I think that was the beginning 299 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 4: maybe of like modern crowd control policing. But yeah, these yeah, 300 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 4: this is a different world to the one we are 301 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: in now. 302 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they don't you know, and there's this this 303 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: is the beginning of the modern world, right, but they 304 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: haven't seen it yet. 305 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's any one way to a really experience that stuff. Yeah, 306 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 5: you have to go through it. 307 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: So we're going to take an ad break and when 308 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: we come back, we are going to get to the Yippies, 309 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: the other group that's protesting at this convention, right, and 310 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: we are back from the advertisements that the Yippies would 311 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: have loved hijacking. So the Yippies are another group that 312 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: we don't have anything really like this today Because this 313 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: is the year twenty twenty four. 314 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 3: Everyone kind of smokes. 315 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: I mean not everyone, but people just kind of smoke weed, 316 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: right all the time. 317 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's pretty normal. 318 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 3: But in c eight this is. 319 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: Really not that we're mob are very very explicit political people, right, 320 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: capital P politics, you know, communists, socialists, some like sort 321 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: of left liberals, progressives, et cetera. There, and they're very 322 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: clearly doing politics conventionally. The Yippies are a counterculture group. 323 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: It's this mix of people who are political radicals to 324 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: get caught up in sort of this counterculture stuff. And 325 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 2: then a lot of them are just kind of counterculture 326 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: people who mostly just sort of want sex, drugs and 327 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: rock and roll, but see this as the way to 328 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: sort of resist the sort of death machine that they 329 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: see themselves as living in. 330 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think this is the time people start talking 331 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 4: about the MARCUSI in great refusal a lot in nineteen 332 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 4: sixty eight, right, and then kind of people going big 333 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 4: different directions with that. 334 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, altho, these people are We'll get into this more 335 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 3: in a second. These people are not very theoretically sophisticated. 336 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, right, I'm not reading Old Herbert. 337 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: They are stoned out of their minds at literally all times, 338 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 2: you know. And so yippie is a term that didn't 339 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 2: exist before the sixty eight Convention. It was developed specifically 340 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: as part of a plan to do a sort of 341 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: protest thing, as this rallying cry of yippee against the 342 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 2: sort of death machine of of the Democratic National Convention, 343 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 2: which everyone thought was going to nominate LBJA to do 344 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 2: more firebombing of Vietnam. And so their plan is, and 345 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: this is something that you can still see kind of 346 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: reflections of in some Ish modern movements, so though we 347 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: don't do it as much anymore, but their plan was 348 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: to have this sort of festival of life to counterpose 349 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: against the DNC's festival of death. They were going to 350 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,479 Speaker 2: have a bunch of singers and people were just going 351 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 2: to like have public sex. And their thesis of how 352 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: they're trying to do this is to hijack the sort 353 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 2: of mass medium machine, which they see as the kind 354 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: of defining element of modern society, right is the element 355 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: of sort of totalitarian and social control, and their plan 356 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 2: is to hijack it for fur their own purposes. This 357 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: is superficially similar to something you see from the French 358 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 2: sixty eight ters, who have sort of, by the time 359 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 2: this is happening, have done a revolution that doesn't quite 360 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 2: work well. We'll cover on the show at some point. 361 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 2: And the French sixty eight ters, both students and the 362 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 2: workers who very very nearly take control of France, are 363 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 2: heavily influenced by a theorist named Guide to Board and 364 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: his sort of ubiquitous book The Society is Spectacle, and 365 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 2: superficially these are very similar things, but de Board's analysis 366 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: is a technologically sort of ideologically sophisticated analysis of social relations. 367 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 2: And again, the Yippies are contrary to that stone out 368 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 2: of their minds at literally all times. 369 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, they're doing like t moo dot com guidable. Yeah. 370 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 2: Well, so I'm going to read back to back a line, 371 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 2: an average line from Guide to Board Society a Spectacle, 372 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 2: and then I'm going to give you a quote from 373 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 2: an Abby Hoffman, who's one of the people who invents 374 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 2: the term Yippium, to give a quote from one of 375 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: his speeches at the sixty eight convention. So here is 376 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 2: an average Guide to Board Society Aspectacle line. 377 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: Quote. 378 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 2: The spectacle is the existing order's uninterrupted discourse about itself. 379 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 2: It's laudatory monologue. It is the self portrait of power 380 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: in the epoch because it's totalitarian management of conditions of existence. 381 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:06,239 Speaker 2: The fetishistic, purely objective appearance. The spectacular relations conceal the 382 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: fact that their relations among men in classes. Second nature, 383 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: with its fatal law, seems to dominate our environments. 384 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 3: But the spectacle is not the. 385 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 2: Necessary product of technical development, seen as a natural development. 386 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: The society of the spectacle is, on the contrary, the 387 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: form which chooses its own technical content. So this is, 388 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 2: this is, This is what the people that this is 389 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 2: what the sixty eight is in France are reading. Here 390 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 2: is yippie founder Abbie Hoffman. This is This is in 391 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 2: a speech. While he would call it a rap or something, 392 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 2: but this is in a rambling that he gives to 393 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: a crowd at a sixty eight convention. Meet the press, 394 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 2: face the nation, issues and answers all those bullshit shows. 395 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: You know, you get a Democrat and a Republican arguing 396 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: back and forward, this and that, this and yeah yeah yeah. 397 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 2: But at the end of the show, nobody changes their 398 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: fucking mind, you see. But they're trying to push Brillo. 399 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 2: You see. That's good. You want to use Brillo. See 400 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 2: in about every ten minutes on will come three minutes 401 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: of Brillo. Brillow is a revolution, Brillow is sex, Brillo 402 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: is fun, Brillo is At the end of the show, 403 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 2: people late fucking switching from Democrat or Republican or commis 404 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 2: you know the right wingers ready of that shit? 405 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 3: They're buying Brillo. I mean, can you imagine if they 406 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 3: had the Beatles gain zing zing zing, all that jump 407 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 3: and shout, you know, and all of a sudden they 408 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 3: put an ad where this guy comes on very straight. 409 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 3: You ought to buy Brillo because it's the rationally correct decision. 410 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 3: Part of the American process is the right way to 411 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 3: do things. You know. Fuck, they'll buy the Beatles, they 412 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 3: won't buy Brillow. 413 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: So this is a semi incomprehensible rat right, this is 414 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 2: this just goes on and in the middle of this 415 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 2: kind of semi incohre intentionally semi incoherent nonsense, is is 416 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 2: this point about how the thing that changes people's minds 417 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 2: is advertising, right, and not not the sort of business 418 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: of politics as usual. It's this sort of performance spectacle 419 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: that is that is the real thing that like shit 420 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 2: that actually changes how people think. These are performance artists, right, 421 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 2: Alan Ginsberg, sort of famous beat Poe is was one 422 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: of the people who's going to be speaking there. He's 423 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: writing sort of, he's writing poetry about it. The people 424 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: are doing theater performances. If you've seen like the giant 425 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 2: puppets that used to be at Big protest that was 426 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: kind of a descendant of this stuff. Oh yeah, And 427 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: these performance artists are sitting out to hijack the biggest 428 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: stage in the world and turn it against the war. 429 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: And that stage is the nineteen sixty eight Democratic Convention. Unfortunately, however, 430 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 2: if there's one group in the US who is even 431 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 2: less prepared for a street fight than MOB, is it 432 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 2: is the Yippies. The Yippies, you know, at least the 433 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 2: more radical members of MOB have pretensions of street fighting. 434 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: The Yippies are not street fighters at all. And this 435 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 2: is something that's distinct from most of the sixty eight 436 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: upris Most of the sixty eight uprisings everywhere are characterized 437 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 2: by people who are very very good at this. Right, 438 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: and these protesters fight very well. I mean, the most 439 00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 2: famous ones we've talked about it a little bit are 440 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: right or of the Japanese student movements who have this 441 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 2: sort of iconic white construction hats, these giant wooden polls. 442 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 2: They used to literally fight riot police at rage. But 443 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 2: you know, students, workers, and just like random people off 444 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,959 Speaker 2: the street everywhere from Italy to France to Pakistan are 445 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 2: able to fight the police on fairly even footing. 446 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 3: They equit themselves valiantly. The yippie is, on the. 447 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: Other hand, every single time they come into contact with 448 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 2: the police, they get absolutely bald And you know, the 449 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 2: pre DNC Yippie protests are extremely peaceful, right, You're not 450 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 2: even disruptive. They have permits, and the police just batter them. 451 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 2: And this is kind of the plan, right. The police 452 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 2: attacks are generating media coverage, and the yippies are trying 453 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 2: to hijack this media coverage to spread their message, and 454 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: this kind of works to some extent. Part of the problem, though, 455 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 2: is that one of the biggest newspapers in Chicago is 456 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 2: Chicago Tribune, who are a kind of reactionary that I mean, 457 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: I guess we still have them, but this is the 458 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: kind of magazine that would have been right there with 459 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 2: the economists saying that like all of the Irish dying 460 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 2: was good. Right, That's the kind of like when the 461 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 2: British kill him with the famine, right, Like this is 462 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 2: the kind of kind of reactionary that that. 463 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 3: The Chicago Tribune is. 464 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 2: And so some of their protest hijacking stuff doesn't really 465 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 2: work in Chicago because you'll have these protests where just 466 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 2: the Tribune shows up, and if the Tribune shows up, 467 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 2: the coverage of the cops just absolutely beating the crap 468 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: out of a bunch of people who were just walking 469 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 2: on sidewalks is going to be something like did the 470 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,239 Speaker 2: police defeat unruly demonstrators or something? Before before we go 471 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 2: any further, and by any further, we're gonna talk about 472 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: how these Jews relate to each other, and oh boy, 473 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 2: we need to go to the thing the Yipians would 474 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 2: have been hijacking, which is these products and services we're 475 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 2: continuing in their noble tradition by using their money to 476 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 2: do this episode. 477 00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 3: We are back. 478 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: So something that I think is very interesting about these 479 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,959 Speaker 2: two groups. That is the final thing that you kind 480 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 2: of have to understand about why these protests go the 481 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 2: way they do. I've talked a bit about how sort 482 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: of the more radical parts of mob and the yippies 483 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 2: who are very radical are are kind of being isolated 484 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 2: from the more moderate elements right, and this is part 485 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 2: of Mayor Daily's deliberate strategy. Daily is the all powerful 486 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: mayor of Chicago. He's one of the sort of the 487 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 2: builders of America's greatest ever political machine, which is the 488 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: Chicago Machine. By this point, he has single hand almost 489 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 2: single handedly like one elections for the Democratic Party by 490 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 2: handing them Illinois on a platter. He is the guy, 491 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 2: one of the people who turns Illinois from a swing 492 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 2: state into a state that votes for Democrats by Noah's 493 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 2: margins every single year. And he does this through this 494 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 2: incredibly powerful patriotish network and corruption network. And Daily's deliberate 495 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 2: strategy is trying to sort of separate He's trying to 496 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: knock the moderate out of the protests by threatening that 497 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: he's going to just like obliterate these people right by, 498 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: and also by continuously denying them permits so that certain 499 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: more water people won't show up, And so the plan 500 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: is basically isolate them. And part of the other reason 501 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 2: why this works is that this whole plan is opposed 502 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 2: by a group you wouldn't really expect to be opposing it, 503 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 2: which is the Communists CPUSA wants nothing to do with this. 504 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 2: Even the SWP socials workers parties, who are the Trotzkyites 505 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 2: who have very important roles in MOB they're part of 506 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 2: a faction that doesn't want to do the DNC convention 507 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: going in And this is something you see all over 508 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight because weirdly, the communist parties in sixty 509 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 2: eight are a very conservative force. This is something that 510 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: we've talked about on the show before. In places like Chile, 511 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 2: you have fairly moderate Christian Democratic workers going into the 512 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 2: streets and meanwhile the Chilean Communist Party is going, no, 513 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 2: no hold on. 514 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: We must slow the pace of reforms. 515 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, this isn't it. 516 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: And you know that's even more mild example than what 517 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 2: happens in France, where the French Communist Party blows its 518 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 2: one shot of ever taking power by straight up working 519 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: with the government to stamp out the MA sixty eight 520 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: uprisings there. 521 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 522 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, these old left parties are very conservative, both because 523 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 2: you know, on an international level, because some of them 524 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: are in the sort of common tern orbit, right, so 525 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: they're taking orders directly from Moscow and Moscow doesn't want 526 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 2: any disruption, right, And in the US, a lot of 527 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 2: the older activists don't want confrontation because they're all still 528 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 2: petrified of the Red Scare, and so they're terrified of 529 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 2: anything that could like even sort of alienate a single person. 530 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 2: And this means that to some extent, all Mob and 531 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: the Yippies really have over each other. But the problem 532 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 2: is the Mob and the Yippies hate each other. That's 533 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 2: the Tennis Odust time. 534 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's amazing. 535 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 2: And again this is something that like all of the 536 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: mode people agree about which they agree about nothing. The 537 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 2: only thing they agree about is they don't even they 538 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 2: don't even agree about fully demanding an end to the 539 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 2: Vietnam War, right, They don't agree with anything except they 540 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: hate the Yippies because they see the Yippies as these 541 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 2: like deeply unseerious bourgeois degenerates who are just having sex 542 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 2: and doing drugs that are just literally the same culture 543 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 2: that they're trying to resist. The yipc mode has sort 544 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 2: of self righteous assholes who are locked in this death 545 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 2: spiral of comically serious politics that are also just a 546 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 2: reflection of the thing they're opposing. So, you know, both 547 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 2: of these people take the same things about each other. 548 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: But meanwhile, both of these groups and really everyone else 549 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 2: in the US is going to have to ride the 550 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: wildest wave of vibe shifts in the entirety of American history. So, 551 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 2: all right, we kind of famously had our vibe shift 552 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: when Biden dropped out and everyone was like, whoa hold on, 553 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: better things are possible? 554 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 5: Question mark, Yeah, question. 555 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 2: There's also a vibe shift in sixty eight when when 556 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 2: LBJ drops out. 557 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 3: It's March thirty first. 558 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 2: But there are key differences here though, Right, Barden has 559 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 2: already won the nomination right by the time that he 560 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,719 Speaker 2: is forced out, and when he is forced out, there 561 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 2: is great rejoicing. Everyone's really happy about. Even the old 562 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 2: Biden stalle warts immediately fall on line behind Kamal Harris. 563 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 4: Right, yeah, right, that Biden's wins account changed his name. 564 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 3: Yeah right. Sixty eight is much much bessier than that. 565 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 2: LBJ doesn't drop out until he almost loses a he 566 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 2: almost think it's the New Hampshire primary to anti war 567 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 2: candidate Eugene McCarthy, not to be confused with the other McCarthy. 568 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 2: I was really baffled the first time I just saw 569 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 2: people talking about McCarthy. I was like, what wait, hold on, Yeah, 570 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 2: this is anti war stal warts Senator Eugene McCarthy, and 571 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 2: McCarthy almost beating LBJ in a very conservative state really 572 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: sort of lights this fire under LBJ. And LBJ realizes 573 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 2: that he could win the nomination, but if he does that, 574 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 2: he's going to lose General Lushion, so he books it 575 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: and drops out. When LBJ drops out, there's a competitive primary. 576 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: The other reason the primary is competitive is that RFK 577 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 2: takes this as his shining moment and goes, I am 578 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: going to enter the race as the anti war candidate. 579 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: Now we now have our tragedy as farce RFK. 580 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 4: Gee jesus, Yeah, just to be clear if people aren't familiar, 581 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 4: not the same dude, No, no different, Bobby Kennedy. 582 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is RFK. 583 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: RFK really is seen as as a guy, and but 584 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 2: both hum and McCarthy are seen by young people who 585 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 2: have been disillusioned by LBJ as someone who can you 586 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 2: can sort of like take this anti war platform national right, 587 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 2: and there is a massive vibe shift for a moment, 588 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 2: there is hope. And this is a real problem for 589 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 2: the anti war fashions because this kind of thing is 590 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 2: exactly how the US got into this mess in the 591 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 2: first place. LBJ ran this same con in sixty four, Yeah, exactly, 592 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 2: and then got leck. It immediately made the war worse. So, 593 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: you know, I think there's a tendency to look back 594 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: on the anti war protesters as these sort of like 595 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 2: spoiler people who ruin the democratic nomination or whatever. But 596 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 2: you know, they were right to a large extent to 597 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: be incredibly suspicious of anti war democratic candidates. Yeah, but 598 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 2: you know, this also throws all of the planning for 599 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 2: the protests and the chaos, because the center point of 600 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 2: the protest for both mob and the Yippies was to 601 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: show an alternative to this sort of stagnant war upon 602 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: death machine politics LBJ. But suddenly, like if there's a 603 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: if there's an anti war candidate who's a nominee, it 604 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: becomes so much harder to make this case. And these 605 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 2: people are really unbelievably depressed. The vibes everywhere else in 606 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 2: the country are great. Everyone believes in hope again, it's 607 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 2: hope and change. So they have Obama and then RFK 608 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: gets assassinated. Everything goes to shit almost immediately. I mean, 609 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 2: the vibes are so bad that famously, one of the 610 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: one of the mob guys, I think he's on camera 611 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: just weeping because I mean, and he and Boby Kennedy 612 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 2: had kind of had sort of known each other through 613 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: the sort of anti war networks, and he's not a 614 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 2: Kennedy supporter. But when Kennedy gets killed, it's basically imagine 615 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 2: our vibe shift immediately flipped at his head and went 616 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: even more rancid than it had been the feeling that 617 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 2: you all had in the week after the failed Trump assassination, right, yeah, 618 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 2: and you can see this is interesting, right, like all 619 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 2: of the elements of nineteen sixty eight are here in 620 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Right, you have your unpopular president leaving, 621 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: you have a vibe shift, you have a Kennedy, you 622 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 2: have an assassination attempt. But the pieces fit together differently 623 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 2: because what happens is, you know, the vibe shift collapses 624 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 2: with the RFK assassination, and suddenly you know, anti war's 625 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 2: back on the table. But on the other hand, McCarthy's 626 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 2: still in the race, right, Ujim McCarthy, who's the other 627 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 2: anti war candidate, is still in the race. However, it 628 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 2: is becoming increasingly clear that what is going to happen 629 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 2: at the convention is that Eugene McCarthy is going to 630 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: get rat fucked, and they are going to put Hubert Humphrey, 631 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 2: who is lbj's vice president, back in the saddle under 632 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: the same policies. And this too is a sort of 633 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: inversion of twenty twenty four. The party elites ousting Biden 634 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: and installing Kamala. Harris is broadly unbelievably popular with the base. Yeah, 635 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: Hubert Humphrey doesn't like run in primaries. She just wins 636 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 2: by rankling all the delegates to vote for him in 637 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 2: these this incredible series and sort of smoke filled backroom 638 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 2: deals and peeling off people who've been Kennedy delegates, and 639 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 2: it becomes clear that he's going to win. But it's 640 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 2: terrifying because what has happened is that the Democratic elite, 641 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 2: against the will of law of Democratic voters, has just 642 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 2: straight up stolen this election. Right they have they have 643 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 2: stolen it. They have rat fucked Eugene McCarthy. 644 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is kind of like the Riot has unsuccessfully 645 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 4: tried to play this narrative again, right. 646 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, the thing about Harris is that she 647 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: is seen as something different than Biden. Yeah, this is 648 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 2: this part actually has to do with the differences in 649 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: Biden's weakness versus lbj's. 650 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: Right. 651 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 2: A huge part of Biden's weakness that everyone thinks he's 652 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 2: completely senile. Yeah, because she is objectively senile. 653 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because he can't fucking certain together a sentence 654 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 4: yeah goes off, right, Not that Trump can. 655 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 2: No, not the Trump can either, right, but it was, 656 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 2: but Biden was sort of more visible, right, Yeah, because 657 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 2: of sort of the way the media works, because of 658 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 2: Trump's ability to sort of run away. 659 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 3: There's a lot of factors this, right. 660 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, No one on Earth thinks that LBJ is seen now, 661 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 2: not even his worst enemies. 662 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 3: I think that that man is senile. Right. 663 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 2: His problem is his policies, And the problem with that 664 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 2: is that his policies are being transferred directly to his successor, 665 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 2: who is his vice president. Whereas Kamala Harris does not 666 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 2: have the fundamental weakness of Joe Biden, which is that 667 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 2: she successfully and she is the first major American political 668 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 2: figure he has been able to do this in eight years. 669 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 2: She can string together three consecutive sentences yeah. 670 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 4: Which, yeah, it appears like a manna from heaven to 671 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 4: the sort of politics appreciate a class is right when 672 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 4: they have to explain to all of us why we're 673 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 4: pure rad and juvenile of warning politics outside of politicians, 674 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 4: while their politicians are like struggling to do a whole 675 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 4: paragraph without talking about their corn pop or scratched in 676 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 4: Pennsylvania or something. 677 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so this is, you know, even as we're 678 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 2: heading into the convention, things are things are going to 679 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: be very different than they're going to play out now. 680 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,359 Speaker 2: But there's one thing that is exactly the same. If 681 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 2: that is your cargo police department. No changes. 682 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 3: The only change is they are slightly slightly, not not significantly. 683 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 3: They are slightly less willing to say the ND word 684 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 3: in public, like a little bit. 685 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, and in return for that, they got approximately ten 686 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 4: million dollars of fucking weapons. 687 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, really up to you. 688 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 2: These people are exactly the same as today. They are 689 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 2: overpaid and titled asshole screaming for violence. 690 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 3: They are screaming it. 691 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: They're going to take their vengeance against what they see 692 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 2: as a leftist conspiracy to protect criminals and hand the 693 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: country to communists. They are precisely the swine who beat 694 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 2: us in the streets in twenty twenty. These people in 695 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 2: sixty eight are precisely the men today who ran a 696 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 2: black site at Homan Square to torture, to disappear, and 697 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 2: torture suspects and the false confessions, and who boldly set 698 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 2: out a few years ago to kill a sixteen year 699 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 2: old with sixteen shots on a cover up. This is 700 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 2: the exact same Chicago Police department that it wasn't sixty eight, 701 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 2: and in fact, all of the key elements of the 702 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 2: modern police department. 703 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 3: This is the period. Richard M. 704 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 2: Daily is one of the people who gets the cops 705 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 2: to unionize, and again we're gonna see Daily is really 706 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 2: truly a terrible person. Daily wants the Teamsters to organize 707 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 2: the cops. That doesn't work at all. He's been completely fails. 708 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 2: They're organized by the Fraternal Order of Police, who are 709 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 2: just effectively a giant cartel for police murderers. Now and 710 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 2: they were at the time. There are a bunch of 711 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 2: unbelievable reaction areas. A bunch of their leaderships will do things. 712 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 4: Like quote Hitler, they just cal't fucking stump themselves. 713 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I want to read. I'm going to read 714 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 2: sort of the modern police statements. Quote, the better we 715 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 2: do our job of envoicing the law, the more we 716 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,280 Speaker 2: are attacked. The state of our so called objective press 717 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 2: is sad to behold subtly too many so called objective 718 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 2: news writers attempt to excuse the actions of minorities. Oh wait, 719 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 2: that's not that's not the modern police, that's the sixty 720 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 2: eight police saying a thing that is literally identical to 721 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 2: every modern reallest statement today. 722 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 3: They're not changed at. 723 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 5: All, because no one made them. 724 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 2: No, this is sort of the trap that the anti 725 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,720 Speaker 2: war people are walking into, right, They are walking into 726 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 2: a bunch of ultra radicalized, unbelievably pissed off cops who 727 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 2: are salivating at the attempt to sort of beat up 728 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 2: long haired hippies. And also, there's one thing we should 729 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 2: also make clear, that's that's very different between this anti 730 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 2: war movement and the modern one, which is that mob 731 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 2: and the yippies are terrifyingly white. They might be whiter 732 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 2: than the cops at this It's it's genuinely possible, that's true. 733 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 2: These love for reasons that are incomprehensible to be other 734 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 2: than racism. Absolutely love dressing up in like indigenous costumes. 735 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 5: Oh god, Yeah. 736 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 3: It's awful. 737 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. And part of what's going on is that the 738 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 2: sort of black radical groups don't really want to be 739 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 2: involved in this. Yeah, well can see why. You know, 740 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: they're anti war, but they're like, this is not our problem. 741 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 2: You can sort this out. 742 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 5: Yeah. 743 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 2: And this is also another thing, a very very key 744 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 2: difference between that anti war sort of coalition and today's 745 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 2: because today's anti war coalition. If you go to any 746 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 2: of the campus occupations, right, you go to an anti 747 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 2: war protest, it's it's basically a combination of two of 748 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 2: two groups. Right, it's queer white people and just non 749 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 2: white people in general, some of whom are queer, with 750 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 2: some of whom aren't. And that's that's the core of 751 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 2: sort of protest organization of the US, Right, those are 752 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 2: the core of the people who show up, Yeah. 753 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 4: And then seventeen people with fucking clipboards trying to get 754 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 4: them to sign up for their various. 755 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 3: Well, those are the leaches that show up to sort 756 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 3: of pray on pray on the Yeah. 757 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, they are the lamprey on the shock of protests. 758 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 759 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, But this plays out very differently politically because of 760 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 2: who has been mobilized into sort of anti war things 761 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 2: now versus who is showing up to this convention, And 762 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,879 Speaker 2: this is going to be true of the people who 763 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 2: show up to the convention this time, right, Yeah, they 764 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 2: are very much not the same kind of sort of 765 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 2: middle class student people who were showing up to like 766 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 2: disconventional not all those people, but like there are a 767 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 2: lot of people who did workers, right, but like they're 768 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 2: distressingly white, and that is that is simply not true 769 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 2: of the modern movement. It's one of the reasons why 770 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 2: the pieces don't quite fit. All Right, we need to 771 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 2: go do some more ads and then we're going to 772 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 2: sort of wrap up what actually happened at the convention 773 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 2: and how it sort of shook out politically. 774 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 3: We are back. So the other thing that guarantees. 775 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 2: Really that this is going to descend into sort of 776 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 2: chaos is that, I mean, even days before the events, right, 777 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 2: neither the mode people nor the Yippies really know what 778 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 2: they're planning to do. 779 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 3: The planning has been terrible. 780 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 2: Part of it is because again they can't get permits 781 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 2: from the city, and it's really hard to plan when 782 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 2: you can't know what you're supposed to be doing. There's 783 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 2: also internal disagreements in the groups of what to do. 784 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 2: There's also a truly staggering federal infiltration, and not just 785 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 2: the normal feds, right, we're talking like military intelligence. Oh wow, 786 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,920 Speaker 2: the like the Army's intelligence office is spying on protesters. 787 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 2: They have guys inside of McCarthy's campaign that. 788 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 3: Should not be legal. 789 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 4: It doesn't matter if it's legal, it doesn't, right, it's 790 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 4: but it's it's nuts. 791 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 2: And you know, I mean, there's an estimate that that's 792 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 2: from from Citi Chicago that book that one in six 793 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 2: protesters were informants of Fuck Me. It's like after Waffin 794 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 2: ratio they've got going up. 795 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. 796 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 2: And like part of this is the numbers of protesters 797 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: here aren't very good because people are or five the 798 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 2: CPD is going to start killing everyone. So the actual 799 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 2: number is even as peaks, maybe ten thousand, which is 800 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: pretty small considering that the Pentagon mobilization that mob had 801 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 2: done in sixty seven was like one hundred thousand people. Well, right, 802 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 2: they've been able to put together really massive protests, but 803 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 2: this one is not that large. So the Yippi's kind 804 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 2: of do their concert thing, but the moment night hits 805 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 2: and they're trying to be in this park. The police attack, 806 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 2: the police are incredibly brutal. By about three days in 807 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 2: the National Guard gets deployed. And this is something about 808 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,320 Speaker 2: sixty eight that's also different from today. If the National 809 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 2: Guard is deployed today, it's not the same thing, no, 810 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 2: as as a national Guard deployment sixty eight, because the 811 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 2: National Guard deployment in sixty eight very well could mean 812 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,359 Speaker 2: that the army is going to kill you, all right. 813 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,919 Speaker 2: This is a period in which the National Guard, their 814 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 2: riot control mechanism is a line of guys with bayonets. 815 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, he's to say that these bayonets a leslie. 816 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's or less lethal because 817 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 2: when they're actually going lethal, and they've done this in 818 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 2: the past three or four years against a bunch of 819 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 2: the sort of black op risings have been happening, is 820 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 2: they just shoot people. 821 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 3: Yeah right, they straight up kill them. This happened in Chicago. 822 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 2: That was more of the cops the National Guard because 823 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 2: read Holy Week, they were sort of told to stand down. 824 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 2: So it's not to like literally destroy the entire country 825 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 2: in the giant war, but you know, them showing up 826 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 2: also really pisses off the organizers and the everything that 827 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 2: happens to the cops start beating the organizers, and this, 828 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 2: it turns out, is a bad idea, because it turns 829 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 2: out if you beat people, they get really angry at you. 830 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 2: And so suddenly you have all of these mode guys 831 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 2: who literally their plan going into the convention was we 832 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 2: don't want to have a fight because we're gonna lose, 833 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 2: who are suddenly like, well fuck it, they're attacking as anyway, 834 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: we're just gonna fight them. Yeah, and this is where 835 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,439 Speaker 2: everything sort of the police completely go off the rails, right, 836 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 2: this is where you see, you know, all of the 837 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 2: sort of famous footage of beatings outside the convention. Also, 838 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 2: and I will put this something Robert pointed out, is 839 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 2: it like anyone who was in Portland and twenty twenty 840 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 2: has been through stuff that's way worse than anything anyone 841 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 2: saw here. Like you statistically probably have seen something that 842 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 2: was much worse than what happened to the people, Which 843 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 2: is not to say it wasn't bad, right, I mean, 844 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 2: these are people getting horribly beaten by guys with billy clubs. 845 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 5: But yeah, it just happens all the time. 846 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 2: Now we are so far past this being a thing 847 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 2: that nobody's ever seen before or whatever. 848 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, we had a moment where I could have stopped, 849 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 4: and a lot of people have fucking tried. Yeah, And 850 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,279 Speaker 4: as a country, we are going down the path of 851 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 4: the cops beating people and getting away with it like 852 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 4: that is yeah, where we're at politically. 853 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, And in the experience sixty eight, the cops, the 854 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 2: cops are able to go even more feral than they 855 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 2: are now, which is slightly more fail which is to 856 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,719 Speaker 2: say that this storm McCarthy's campaign office and they have 857 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 2: his campaign staffers beaten. 858 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 5: Oh damn, Yeah, that is that is advanced. 859 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never heard of another modern political thing where 860 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 2: police straight up storm the campaign office of a presidential 861 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 2: campaign and had his staffer's beaten. 862 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 3: Right. 863 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 2: And this has a massive impact inside of the convention itself, 864 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 2: because what's happening in the convention is not what we 865 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 2: got with Kamala, where like the old is gone and 866 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 2: here's the new or whatever, and you know, you can 867 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,879 Speaker 2: you can look for some kind of break there. It 868 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 2: is Humphrey has been put in. Humphrey is LBJ two. 869 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,720 Speaker 2: Lbj's Vietnam policy is inscribed by vote into the platform 870 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 2: of the Democratic Party for what they're going to run. 871 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 3: In sixty eight. 872 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 2: And meanwhile, outside right, as the sort of rat fuck 873 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 2: is happening, and as the party leadership is installing Hubert Humphrey, 874 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 2: the sort of liberal anti war wing of the party 875 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,720 Speaker 2: is recoiling in horror. A McCarthy deleg who's a senator 876 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 2: famously is about to go on stage and endorse, endorse 877 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 2: super Humphrey because Humphrey's won the nomination, they have to 878 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 2: come together unity. But he's washing out the window as 879 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 2: the police are just like throwing kids around and beating 880 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 2: the shit out of them, and he instead gives this 881 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 2: speech where he's says that if McCarthy was president, the 882 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 2: cops wouldn't be using gestopo tactics, and Chicago bay Or 883 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 2: Richard M. Daly gets so angry that he starts screaming 884 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 2: from the crowd and I quote and I apologize for 885 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 2: saying this, but you need to understand who the party 886 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 2: elite is in this period. He says, quote, fuck you, 887 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,000 Speaker 2: you juice, son of a bitch, you lousy motherfucker, go home. 888 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 2: She is the mayor of Chicago, on the floor live 889 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 2: on TV at the Democratic National Convention. Jeez, you are 890 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,399 Speaker 2: watching in sixty eight, you can see in real time 891 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 2: on TV the entire Democratic Party completely fall apart. 892 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,440 Speaker 5: Yeah. Fuck the uh yeah, the mosque has come off, 893 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 5: that hasn't it. 894 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, everything's flowing apart. You can see. 895 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:45,879 Speaker 2: You can see the divisions. A lot of liberal anti 896 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 2: war candidates refuse to back like Humphrey and his people. 897 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 2: They eventually come back together sort of as the general 898 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 2: election approaches, but the damage is done and that's not 899 00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 2: something that we're really at risk of. 900 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 4: No, they seem to be a pretty much lock step 901 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 4: right now, like both with police violence and with what 902 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 4: was happening in Palestine. Like there's not much like real 903 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 4: within the party, the Democrat Party, like much descent that 904 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:17,280 Speaker 4: I can see. 905 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. 906 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 2: And I think the other thing about the Sittiate election 907 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 2: people are trying to compare it to the twenty twenty 908 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 2: four election, is that the Democrats only lost by about 909 00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 2: one percent of the vote, or some one percent of 910 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 2: the vote, even even though it was a blowout, They 911 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 2: only lost are about one percent of the vote in 912 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,799 Speaker 2: sixty eight. And a big part of what happened also 913 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 2: was that George Wallace, the insane segregation. This guy was 914 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 2: also running and drew a whole bunch of electoral votes, yeah, 915 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,240 Speaker 2: which we don't really have, but you know, the Democrats 916 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 2: almost success rallied and beat Nixon Nixon, you know, And 917 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,760 Speaker 2: this is something that there's this narrative that Nixon wins 918 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 2: by sort of unbelievable margins and that he represented the 919 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 2: sort of silent majority. And that's only sort of true. 920 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 2: But on the other hand, the ground in the u 921 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 2: US since then has changed, right, the uprisings of the 922 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 2: nineteen sixties, and this is from the Holy Week uprisings 923 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 2: to the process of the d NC. All of these 924 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 2: protests are hideously unpopular. Everything MLK does, everyone hates it, 925 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 2: right literally until MLK dies. 926 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:15,399 Speaker 3: Right. 927 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,759 Speaker 2: And there's actually a very fun example of this. Bayar 928 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,279 Speaker 2: Daily had absolutely hated MLKA when he was alive. Right, 929 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,400 Speaker 2: He gives speeches a college he say he is starting 930 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,720 Speaker 2: up trouble and like Astley, despised him, and the moment 931 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,959 Speaker 2: he dies, he gives a speech saying everyone should follow 932 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,760 Speaker 2: mlk's example and remained peaceful and not the state. 933 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,240 Speaker 3: Literally days after right. 934 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 2: But that's the thing, all of these all of these 935 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,240 Speaker 2: things are unbelievably unpopular, and you know, the gap between 936 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,320 Speaker 2: their giant uprising which was holy weak and the election 937 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 2: was a few months whereas you know, in twenty twenty four, right, 938 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four uprising was marked by over fifty 939 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,279 Speaker 2: percent approval for burning a police station down right, he 940 00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 2: was actually extremely popular. 941 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:01,959 Speaker 3: And even even. 942 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,880 Speaker 2: Four years later, you know, with the sort of memory 943 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 2: of the tear gas fading, everything about American politics is 944 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 2: operating in reverse. Increasingly, it is not the left that's 945 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,919 Speaker 2: seen as out of touch radicals just attempting to force 946 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 2: their agenda on a compliant population. It's the right. The 947 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,359 Speaker 2: silent majority today is not composed of evangelical fanatics whose 948 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 2: children monitor their porn consumption. It is composed of people 949 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 2: who think that shit is weird. And that's the thing 950 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 2: that I want to close on, which is that you know, 951 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, in a lot of ways, is 952 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 2: sixty eight standing on its head, because everything that comes 953 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,920 Speaker 2: after the election is seen as the backlash to the 954 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,359 Speaker 2: sort of excess of sixty eight. Right, but we are 955 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 2: already living in the backlash the last four years, the 956 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,520 Speaker 2: last eight years. Right Trumpism is the backlash of Ferguson 957 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,399 Speaker 2: and then all of the sort of desan to stuff, 958 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 2: the anti trans stuff, all of the weird grumor panic, 959 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 2: you know, all the anti critical race theory stuff, all 960 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 2: of the racism, all of that. That's all the backlash 961 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 2: to twenty twenty and it sucks. Everyone hates it. It's awful. 962 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 2: And so we are in a period where the backlash 963 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 2: that sort of swept in the Republicans to power for 964 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 2: a generation, that that's going to sort of come out 965 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 2: of the nick sonari that's eventually going to lead to Reagan. 966 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,480 Speaker 2: It's entirely possible that we are about to see basically 967 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 2: the opposite of that, where this kind of backlash politics, 968 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,799 Speaker 2: this kind of sort of trumpe and fascism. This very 969 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 2: well could be twenty twenty four could be the shore 970 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 2: on which that wave breaks. 971 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 5: We can hope. 972 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 3: I'm hoping. 973 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 5: I don't know. 974 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,240 Speaker 3: I am mildly hopeful. 975 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,240 Speaker 2: I also you know, and this is our thing that's sport, 976 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 2: is this convention is not going to look anything like 977 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,799 Speaker 2: even if there is intense deppression of the protests, it's 978 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,719 Speaker 2: not going to play the same way politically as as 979 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:46,919 Speaker 2: sixty eight convention did. 980 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, that history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes, right, 981 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,480 Speaker 4: and I think there will be similarities here. It is 982 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:59,320 Speaker 4: impossible for the way that the state interacts with protest 983 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 4: to beat this saying yeah, and for people to be 984 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,719 Speaker 4: as shocked by it as they were in sixty eight, right, 985 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 4: like a good number of Democrats, Like you know, if 986 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 4: you go on social media, okay, it's my representative example, 987 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,879 Speaker 4: you've seen plenty of people barking for cops to crack 988 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 4: the heads of kids, yeah, or people of any age, 989 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 4: like protesting against a fucking genocide, Like people don't care anymore. 990 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,319 Speaker 4: I guess if you're clapping for bombing babies, you're also 991 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,560 Speaker 4: going to clap for smashing students in the face of 992 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,000 Speaker 4: the club, Like I kind of go together, I guess. 993 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:30,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean that. I don't know. 994 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 2: I think the sort of long range things about anti 995 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 2: war movements is that the actual anti war movement almost 996 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 2: never stops the war right in the short run immediately, 997 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 2: it almost never works. But what happened with Vietnam was 998 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 2: in the long run, the protests and in sty eight 999 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,839 Speaker 2: did stop the war, right, But they stopped the war 1000 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,600 Speaker 2: not by not by moving sort of traditional America pologists 1001 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 2: to stop the war by being one of the catalysts 1002 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 2: that radicalized enough of enough of the US army that 1003 00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 2: almost by by the time the war ends, something like 1004 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 2: half it is either on strike or openly in revolt. Yeah, 1005 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,520 Speaker 2: and that eventually is the thing that crushes it. And 1006 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,399 Speaker 2: I think that's also a thing for this, is that like, yeah, 1007 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris probably not gonna end the genocide. Yeah, but 1008 00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 2: comma that there's good reason for this, right. We're very 1009 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 2: used to looking for immediate, direct impacts of reactions, and 1010 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,200 Speaker 2: a lot of times the impact of reactions are in 1011 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 2: things in the distant future, in ways that we can't 1012 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,799 Speaker 2: see right now. Yeah, And maybe that gives you hope, 1013 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,040 Speaker 2: maybe that doesn't, But that's sort of the way that 1014 00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:31,280 Speaker 2: these anti word things work. 1015 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:32,880 Speaker 5: And I don't know. 1016 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,680 Speaker 2: Hopefully we'll get a fucking better result this time and 1017 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:42,239 Speaker 2: we can stop the rest of Palestine from being completely exterminated. 1018 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 5: But yeah, that would be nice. 1019 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,520 Speaker 3: That's the not hopeful part of this. 1020 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's not hopeful, but it's instructive, right, Like, 1021 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,360 Speaker 4: if you're out there now and you're expecting some big change, 1022 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,919 Speaker 4: if you're always tending in Chicago and you're expecting some change. 1023 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,680 Speaker 4: You probably won't see it. It doesn't mean that what 1024 00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 4: you're doing isn't important, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't 1025 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:00,000 Speaker 4: keep doing it. 1026 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,879 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so this has been making it happen here. 1027 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 2: The rest of the week will be an account of 1028 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 2: what actually does happen at this convention. 1029 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 5: So stay tuned. 1030 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,880 Speaker 3: Enjoyed that, and go stop geto touching that. 1031 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 1032 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 1033 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,200 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 1034 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,680 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 1035 00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,360 Speaker 1: You can find sources for it could Happen Here, updated 1036 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,480 Speaker 1: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening