WEBVTT - Conviviality Part 2 Ft. Andrew 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:11.640 Welcome to part two of conviviality. What is it? What 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:16.079 are people thinking about it? Always this funky Latin would 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.799 changing and evolving and sitting into an entire movement, and 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:24.320 how is it affecting other movements. Last time we spoke 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:29.280 about the idea of conviviality, you know, which is essentially 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:39.640 good vibes, fun, happy, chill, cool interactions between people you know, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.199 living well together and and joint life in the company 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.720 of others, making sure people are included and welcomed so 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.760 they can relax and have a great experience. We spoke 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:55.480 about the illest multi hyphen it that is ivan Ilich. 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.960 We spoke all the philosophical foundations of being built around 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:05.200 for reality and what those implications have been on metaphysics 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.440 and philosophical anthropology and epistemology and more. And so now 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:12.360 we're going to get into the actual movement. So the 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:16.840 first Manifesto was published by the Center for Global Cooperation 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:21.560 Research in twenty fourteen. It discusses some of our current threats, 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:26.440 including global warming and its consequences, ecosystem degradation, nuclear disaster risk, 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:31.280 resource karse ty, poverty, wealth disparities, political disintegration instate conflicts, 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.200 terrorism and security, criminal networks, influences, e specultive financial politics, 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.119 blah blah blah blah blah. You know, you know the drill. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.880 If you're in this space, everything sucks. It could happen here. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:48.680 That's the name of the show, et cetera. The central 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.880 challenges that we could drive ourselves to extinction right now, 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.600 and if we don't turn this car around, and we 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:58.080 could take most of the world with us. This particular manifesto, 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:04.160 which is asking four basic questions and their considerations and 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.840 what we should consider about them. Right For one, for 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:15.320 moral question, what may individuals legitimately aspire to and where 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.200 must they draw the line? And the Manifesto answers with 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.679 considering that every individual has a legitimate aspiration to be 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.280 treated with equal dignity, to have access to the necessary 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.519 material conditions for their vision of a good life, or 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.880 considering other's perspectives, and participate meaningfully in political life and 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:38.760 decision making. However, individuals must also avoid exceed in bounds 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:44.600 and succumb into this infantile desire for power and control, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:49.200 which jeopardizes social cohesion and the principle of common humanity. 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.519 What that means is that we need to actively be 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:59.640 combatant corruption, refusing to engage in actions that compromise please 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:04.000 vive personal gain, opposing the corruption others to the extent 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:09.360 of wuntabilities encourage fighting hierarchy. I mean to Manifestor doesn't 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.359 say a thing about fighting hierarchy, which I think is 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.040 a faul to the manifesto. But I think for an 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.760 anarchist reading that the implications are pretty clear. And that's 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:17.880 what I have to do with a lot of stuff 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.280 I read, you know, like read between the lines and 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.880 pick up the points that the author missed. And so 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.679 that's the moral consideration, right, What should we aspire to? 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.760 Where must we draw the line? We aspire to being 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.560 trud with equal dignity, have an access to decision making power, 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.560 having a good life by having access to material conditions met. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:43.880 And we try to avoid exceeding boundaries our social boundaries, 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:48.360 and we should try to avoid exceeding social boundaries related 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:56.040 to hierarchy and control and power. The second question is political. 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:02.280 It asks us which are the legitimate political communities. So 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.120 the Manifesto argues that the establishment of a single world 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.240 state in their future is unlikely and the political organization 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.560 will continue to be based on the plurality of states, 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:15.119 and that I think demonstrates the limitations of this Manifesto's 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.280 imagination are configurabism. That's what happens when you have this 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:24.880 clearly radical idea and you try to squeeze the radical 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:31.280 idea into a fundamentally unradical and statistical idea as nation states. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.960 But let me not excessively editorialize. I'm just presenting this 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.799 movement and what its proponents have been arguing. Right according 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:46.640 to their perspective, states and political institutions are considered legitimate 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:52.120 only if they uphold principles such as common humanity, common sociality, individuation, 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:58.240 and managed conflict. To me, that's wishful thinking. But I 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:03.360 digress submit states and it pains me to even say this, 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:09.120 but just communicating, just communicating what the manifesto argues. The 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:15.960 legitimate states extend rights beyond civil and political rights, encompass economic, social, cultural, 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.200 and environmental rights. They ensure a minimum income for the 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.159 poorest citizens, while also implemented a maximum income to prevent 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:30.520 excessive wealth accumulation. The legitimate states maintain a balance between private, common, collective, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.200 and public goods and promote associational activities within a global 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.200 civil society. They view digital networks as cools, as tools 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:42.240 for democratization, and treat them as commons, foster and openness, 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:50.360 free access and partiality and sharing. And they also revive 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:54.240 the tradition of public service and prioritize the preservation of 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:58.200 existing common goods while promoting the developments of new common 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:06.279 goods for the benefit of humanity. Again, it goes without 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.560 saying I take issue with this investment in states. I 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:13.520 think a lot of their goals are noble, if not 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.240 if they were not so tied down whether this investment 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:23.200 in this state structure, because for an anarchist perspective, many 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.440 of these ideas are not compatible with the structure of 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:32.720 a state. And even theoretically, even hypothetically, if a state 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:37.320 would implement all these changes where people had full prisipery 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:46.840 involvement and decision making, where the where the hierarchies were flattened, 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.120 and where everyone had free access and open access and 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:54.560 their commons and all this laddida some anarchists, not every 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.960 but some anarchists wouldn't even consider that to be a 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.520 state anymore. But let's just get into the weeds of 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:17.680 anarchist discourse and we're moving on the third question that 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:21.280 the Manifesto ask is an ecological question, which is what 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.440 we may take from nature, and which is what we 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:30.080 must take from nature? Which is what we may take 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:35.280 from nature and what we must give back? And the 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.600 Manifesto asks us to consider that human beings should no 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.960 longer see themselves as owners and masters of nature, but 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.960 rathers interconnected with it. Right to ensure ecological justice and 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:50.440 preserve a well managed natural heritage for future generations, humans 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.800 mus establish a relationship with nature based on giving back 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:58.200 as much or more than they take. The Manifesto argues 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.800 that the level of material prosperity that can be sustainably 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.120 extended to the entire planet is roughly comparable to the 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.080 average wealth of the wealthiest countries in the nineteen seventies, 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.720 and that wealthier nations must be the responsibility to reduce 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.760 their demand on nature relative to nineteen seventy standards, even 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.360 as they maintain their current quality of life. Priorities of 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.560 this Manifesto include reducing to two emissions, emphasize and renewable 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.080 energy sources over nuclear and fossil fuels, and shifting away 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.720 from viewing animals as mere resources for industry. The principles 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:37.360 of gift and interdependence should thus guide relationships with animals 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.600 and the earth as a whole. Lastly, the first Manifesto 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.240 leaves us with an economic question, which is how much 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.599 material wealth we may reproduce and how should we go 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.000 about producing it? If we had to remain true to 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:55.400 the answers given to the moral, political, and ecological questions, 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:00.480 Manifesto asks us to consider there's no proven connection between 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.719 monetary or material wealth and happiness which promotes any then 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:10.400 to explore alternative forms of prosperity beyond economic growth. As 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:12.760 you can see early on, we're making those connections to 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.120 the idea of de growth. More on that later, and 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.680 so this cause for a plural economy that balances the market, 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.520 the public sector, and social solidarity economy based on the 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:26.959 nature of goods and services involved. Again their perspective, but 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:33.160 while the markets and profitability are legitimate, they must align 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:38.480 with principles of common humanity, social cohesion, and ecological considerations. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.959 And by addressing the issues of the financial economy such 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.760 as renterrorism and speculation through strict regulation, oversight, market restrictions, 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.000 and elimination of tax events, humanity can tap into a 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:57.000 broader spectrum of riches beyond economic and material wealth, including 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.520 fulfillment derived from duty, solidarity, enjoyment, and createivity inferious domains, 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.720 which of course highlights the importance of creativity and meaningful 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.480 relationships with others as an essential component of a prosperous society, 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:18.080 even if not materially or monetarily prosperous. The manifesto goes 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.199 on to define convirivulism, the term that they use to 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.480 describe all those elements and existing systems of belief that 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.520 help us identify principles for enabling human beings simultaneously to 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.840 compete and cooperate with one another with a shared concern 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.160 to safeguard the world and the full knowledge the reformed 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:40.120 part of that world and that its natural resources are finite. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.600 When it comes to Convivialism's crucial for us to hold 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.359 on certain principles that can guide us imagine conflict, prioritizing 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.600 cooperation while being mindful of the limitations posed by scarce resources, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.240 recognizing respect, alter into viewpoints and doctrines, opening the doors, 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.199 engage in die logue and praise to perspectives, and being 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.000 open to question and growth. All of that this manifesto 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:10.400 sees as essential to the idea of configulis. It even 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.800 goes on to propose convivialist policies, right, you know, the 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:23.120 minimum maximum income, protecting natural resources through various reforms and regulations, 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:31.959 tackling unemployments, promoting reduced working hours, supporting the growth of 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.559 the Associationists economy. Of course, I feel that's where the 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:42.199 manifesto falls short. But I do appreciate they had some 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:46.120 of the ideas that it introduces or that it expounds upon. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.439 I mean, I'd appreciate all of the answers to the 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.839 questions that itself that it raises, but I appreciated raising 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.720 those questions, even if I might have slightly different answers 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:03.000 to them. This thesis of this manifestore seems to be 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.200 that a different kind of word is not just possible, 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.959 but crucial and agently necessary. I don't like that it 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:13.520 doesn't call out capitalism sufficiently or really at all. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.520 Yeah, it seems to have an overly cozy relationship with 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:17.400 the state, too. 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:22.200 Which is yeah, yeah, great, not cool. They do say 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.760 quote there will clearly be as many, perhaps conflicting permutations 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:35.800 of convivialism as there are of Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism, liberalism, socialism, communism, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:40.000 et cetera, not least because convivialism in no way invalidates 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:45.800 these So fair enough, in a sense, I appreciate that 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:50.839 they can accept that their particular interpretation is not the 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.599 only one that there can be. I'm sure by this 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:58.360 particular passage they mean that there will be socialist orientations 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:04.000 of convivialism and liberals of convivialism, and Christian orientations of convivialism, 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.040 and et cetera, because they don't see convivialism as incompatible 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.360 with any of them. I think I might take some 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:16.160 issue with, I guess, not refining contrivialism. Further, I appreciate 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:20.600 that they themselves didn't refine it, because you know, they're 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:26.120 clearly quite liberal, But I think that contribualism as an 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:34.600 idea is something at least we uh distilled. Further, because 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:39.840 when you have this sort of free for all everybody 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.400 and everything goes approach to the ideology, I think it 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:48.080 opens up a lot of room for states and corporations 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.000 and NGOs to kind of slip in there and be like, oh, 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.439 look at us, we are going to add confrivilism to 0:13:55.640 --> 0:14:01.160 our constitution and that kind of thing. Like then they 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.240 go and everyone applause and like wow, xyz. Government just 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.960 added contribualism to their constitution and three chairs for them. 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:10.960 And then the government just continues doing what it usually 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:15.800 was doing before it added convidism to its constitution. You know, 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.040 it's like with the whole I spoke about with my 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:22.040 Vivere podcast episode. Yeah, it's kind of like a situation 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:26.880 Yasuni it t right. Ecuadorian government was like, we are 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.480 going to protect this forest. We're not gonna drill for 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.800 oil in this forest, even though it has a bunch 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.720 of oil in this forest, over six billion dollars with 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:38.960 oil in this forest. We're just gonna ask the international 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.920 community for like three point six billion of that oil 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:47.480 and once you'll pay that, we're not going to drill 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.600 the oil. And we want to set this precedent for 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.280 other countries to follow, and YadA YadA, and we added 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.960 to our constitution and all our cash money. Right, but 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.520 then they got like two hundred million dollars worth of 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.040 pledges and then they were like, actually, you know, we're 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:05.600 still going to do it even though we didn't get 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.640 all the money, and then he lad, They're like, nah, 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.640 we're not going to do it anymore. And then a 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.480 couple of years after that they started drilling in the 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.560 National Park, and then a couple of years after that, yeah, 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.760 they started drilling even for the even closer to indigenous 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.160 territories within the park. So you know, that's like it 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:27.760 caught up in the fluffy words of states and corporations. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:28.960 And yeah, there was a there's a there's a version 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:30.960 of this that happen in Bolivia where they did like 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.760 a very similar thing, and then within half a decade, uh, 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.000 like riot police were storming the offices of like of 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.359 one of the giant like digious confederations. 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:45.320 So it's you know, yeah, I mean keep in mind 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.320 a lot of what states do a lot of politicians too, 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.320 is just pr right, And I think a lot of 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.320 people are able to recognize that when it's happened in 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:58.960 their own country, but due to ignorance perhaps of other countries. 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.840 This a politician doing the same thing in another country, 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.440 and they're like, wow, why can't we be more like them? 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.360 And it's like, well, yeah, it to be fair, you know, 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.280 there are politicians and governments that are doing better than 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.840 other politicians and governments, and I'm I'm not going to 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:17.880 like blind my eye to that, but yeah, you know, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.200 at the end of the day, there's still politicians, there's 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.560 still governments. They're still doing their pr putting out their 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.200 best image, put on the best foot forward to hold 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:30.680 on to whatever power they have. 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.880 Yeah. Well, and with both Ecuador and Bolivia too, it's like, well, okay, 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.200 if if you want your politicians to have pr like that, 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.160 like you two can block every single road and your 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:50.560 country start starving your capital out, like yeah, Yeah, Politicians 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:52.840 do not descend from the heavens. They are the product 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:57.360 of a combination of material conditions and social forces. So 0:16:57.760 --> 0:16:59.680 get better social forces. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:07.639 Exactly, exactly. That's the that's our elevator pitch for anarchism. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:20.639 By the way, But I did say there were two manifestos, right, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:25.400 So what about the second manifesto? Right, Concivulist Manifesto number 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:31.439 two published by the Concrivilist International in twenty twenty recent 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:38.600 and they define Confibualism as a comprehensive philosophy that encompasses humanist, 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:42.439 civic and political principles aimed at foster and harmonia scooing 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.840 systems in the modern era emphasize and the importance of 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.960 living together and outlining normative principles to guide that. In 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:56.520 deeval second manifesto of Concriviualism emphasizes the need for a 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:02.199 new political philosophy to challenge neoliberalism drast global issues. Pause. 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:08.560 This idea of it's something that you see a lot, 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:14.680 particularly in that sort of Engio space, right, A lot 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:22.800 of not radical organizations and movements will speak about challenging neoliberalism. 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.840 And it could usually tell because they specify new liberalism. 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.280 They don't say capitalism. They're not anti capitalists, they're just 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.320 anti neoliberalism, which in itself is not radical because newliberalism 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.560 in itself is just a recent permutation of capitalism. 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:43.080 Yeah, and I should point out, like there as bad 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.680 as neoliberalism is, like, there are forms of capitalism that 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:50.080 are worse than it. So yeah, yeah, you know, see 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:55.920 see as evidence World War two. Uh yeah, yeah, I 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.080 just wanted to put that on the records. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.840 Yeah yeah, yeah, but just just for the sake of 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:09.320 people's own ability to scrutinize information and scrutinize movements. It's 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:14.280 an interesting trick of the language because by rallying against neoliberalism. 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.399 They're able to like bring a lot of the anti 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:20.280 capitalist people into the mix and draw from that crowd. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:26.639 But a lot of these movements are not themselves anti capitalists. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.280 And you know, if you want something more than a 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.760 nicer capitalism, that is something to keep in mind. Even 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.000 if you were and even if you know you take 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.320 part in the movement, nothing wrong with that, still something 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.920 to keep in mind. So the second matter of fest 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.960 to it also highlights the interconnectedness of young people's concerns 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:52.640 about climate change and environmental degradation. Talks about the struggles 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.480 of those seeking freedom from dictatorships or those being forced 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.800 to migrate, and it aims to offer and would say, 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:03.280 into vision for a post neoliberal world where promoting shared 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:09.600 values and the sense of agency. Furious intellectuals, activists, writers 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.000 and artists so all committed to this collective project with 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.080 the aim of creating this globally shared vision for the 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:23.480 future that is more inclusive and more participatory. The manifesto, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:30.240 the second manifestor, like the first one, talks about the 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.639 post World War two growth in principles and human rights 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.520 and the shift in capitalism towards speculative and rent their practices, 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:45.879 talks about the decline of liberal democracies and the rise 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:52.200 of illiberal democrateurs, and speaks about resentment growing from past 0:20:52.240 --> 0:21:00.880 clear domination and radical movements including al Qaeda, Reflecting that animosity. Again, 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.520 like the previous manifesto, it talks about ecological threats like 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:10.639 global warming and air pollution, oceanic pollution and accumulation of 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:16.879 plastic waste, nuclear disasters, weekends, ecosystems, rise and employment, job displacement, 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:22.800 wealth inequality, lack of regulation for transnational companies, political fragmentation, 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:28.760 and terrorism. All that fun stuff, and this time the 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:34.760 second manifesto outlines five principles to form the basis of 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:43.560 policies or ethics or organizational actions. Right common naturality, common humanity, 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:52.720 common sociality, legitimate individuation, and creative opposition. These principles emphasize 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:57.800 one the interconnectedness of humans with nature to the importance 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.600 of respecting the shared humanity of all individuals. Three the 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:06.040 value of social relationships for the need for individuals to 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:10.280 develop the individuality or respecting others, and five the recognition 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:15.600 of peaceful rivalry for the common good. These principles are 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:22.520 meant to be guided by the imperative of hubrist control, 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:28.160 which promotes cooperation and prevents the desire for power and excess. 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.200 The manifesto all symphasizes the importance of balance and these 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:36.399 principles to avoid their potential negative consequences. One of the 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:39.440 things that the Manifesto is really trying to get at 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.560 in particular, and the reason that it even establishes this 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:51.080 imperative for hubrist control, is because it argues that ideologies 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:55.639 focus primarily on satisfying material needs and overlook the crucial 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:59.880 role of recognition and desire, and that by reducing part 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:04.199 the fulfillment of needs, ideologies fail to address the problem 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:08.040 of limiting the desire for power and control. To me, 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:11.360 it just seems like the people who wrote this manifesto 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:20.000 aren't familiar with anarchism and anarchism's centuries long confrontation with power, 0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:24.520 control and the desire for it that has altered the 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:30.680 course of very hvarious human societies. Right digress, The manifesto 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:35.600 instead points to religions as playing the historical role of 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:42.960 trying to curb our desire for power and control. That 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:46.000 seems to me like a very poor argument considering the 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:50.359 history of religion, but The point that the Manifestoro is 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:53.840 trying to make is that modern democratic discourses struggle to 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:58.320 restrain limitless desire and often reproduce the humors that they 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:03.760 aim to combat. And so the role of a convivialist 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:08.680 movement then should be in part on persuading individuals to 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:15.680 renounce the desire for dominance and reinforce the principles of 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:25.000 common humanity, sociality, naturality in legitimate interviewation and creative opposition. Again, 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:27.679 I don't think that the direction people are taking convivialists 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:29.800 and is radically enough because I think it leaves room 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:32.560 for it to fall into existing structures. I mean, the 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:37.359 manifest even talks about creating a convivialist party to reignite 0:24:37.440 --> 0:24:38.840 hope and liberal democracy. 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:41.920 Yeah. And I also want to just point out the 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:42.480 sort of like. 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:45.000 Just how. 0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:51.040 How weak of a position it is to, you know, 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:55.159 have one of your goals just to convince individual people to. 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:56.040 Want less power. 0:24:57.160 --> 0:25:01.080 Like I think that's just just sort of boldly anti 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.119 structural as a present prescription. 0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:09.080 Yeah, but I mean, I guess that's something that I've 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:15.120 come to expect from certain MILLI use, right, a lack 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:21.840 of engagement with uh structural domination and how structures inform 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:29.000 how individuals behave you know, like, yes, individuals act within structures, 0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:33.240 but I think people have actually underestimate structural incentives, Like 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:36.520 it's not just about oh, if you get rid of 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:38.720 this bad person from a position of power, but this 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:40.600 good person a position of power, and everything will be 0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:45.240 hunky dory. Like nah, there's still there's still like you 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:48.560 still haven't confronted the way that that structure, that position 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:54.680 incentivizes certain behavior. But like I said before, I'm an anarchists. 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:56.880 I take what I like, I leave what I don't. 0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:00.800 They're also saying a manifest so they're confibulism longs to nobody. 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:05.080 So I've decided that, you know, my version of confivuloism 0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:10.240 is not going to be this water down, watercress salad 0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:18.840 kind of pathy, weak limpristed take on, you know, world 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:24.480 alter and structural change. Lastly, I didn't want to touch 0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:28.840 on because I could say I would the significant role 0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:32.360 that conviviality is played in the de growth movement, particularly 0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:35.920 highlighted in texts like the Growth of Vocabulary for a 0:26:36.000 --> 0:26:42.480 New Era inspired by Ivan's ideas. Conviviality and the growth 0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:47.679 has referred to native society that values joyful sobriety, responsible 0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:51.440 consumption and the use of limited tools that are emmansipiratory 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:57.160 and responsor to human needs. The ideas that Ivan outlined 0:26:57.200 --> 0:26:59.280 and tools of conviviality which I spoke on in the 0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:03.680 first part. This two parter is considered part of the 0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:07.440 intellectual roots of the growth as an idea itself, and 0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:12.560 conviviality is often discussed in relation to technologies, including digital technologies, 0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:18.480 and how technology is suitable to a de growth society 0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:27.320 must be convivial. One particular tool has been developed for 0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:31.400 self assessment, political education and researcher lining with convivial principles, 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:35.280 and that is the matrix for contrivial technology or MCT. 0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:42.240 And the matrix for convivial technology is to go with 0:27:42.359 --> 0:27:51.200 a very basic definition, a normative schema that forsters. Discussion 0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:57.320 concerning degrowth technologies in context of political education them city 0:27:57.480 --> 0:28:07.159 is meant first to reflect on the dimensions of the 0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:10.399 materials we use in technology is and how we produce 0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:13.480 those technologies, how we use the technologies, how the technologies 0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:23.200 fit into the infrastructure, how accessible they are, how interactive 0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:28.200 they are with the environment, how adaptable they are, and 0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:34.159 change in circumstances and much more, how appropriate they are 0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:39.080 and much more. But beyond the MSCT, conviviality is also 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:43.479 being used in the de growth space to describe public spaces, goods, 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:50.160 conservation movements, and even humans. Within the growth literature, transitioning 0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:53.520 to a convivial society is considered to be one of 0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:57.120 the core objectives of the de growth movement, one of 0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:00.600 the core shifts that needs to take place for us 0:29:00.760 --> 0:29:06.720 to de grow as a society. And so that's the 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:12.000 all in short of it, the convivialist manifesto, convivialism and 0:29:12.080 --> 0:29:16.880 contriviality as ideas how they've changed and been adapted, and 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:21.360 how people have been building on the ideas therein in 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:25.440 the sphere of philosophy and politics, education and technology and 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:31.640 more food for thought. I hope you appreciated this brief exploration. 0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:35.959 As I like to say at the end of my videos, 0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:38.520 and I consider it particularly aptain in the context of 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:43.240 conviviality and convivial technology is all power to all the people. 0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:47.800 Once again, you could find me Andrew on YouTube dot 0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:50.360 com slash aneurism and support me on feature dot com 0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:56.400 slash saying true. And as usual, this has been it 0:29:56.480 --> 0:30:01.240 could Happen Here, Where things happen, we talk about stuff. 0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:09.440 It could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:12.360 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:15.520 coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 0:30:15.560 --> 0:30:18.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 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