1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Col Zone Media. On February eleventh, nineteen sixty seven, the 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: Pittsburgh police raided an apartment near the University of Pittsburgh campus. 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: They had a warrant to search the place for marijuana. 4 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: Fifty three people were arrested, charged with the vague sounding 5 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: crime of visiting a disorderly house. The party's host, Frank Goldsmith, 6 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: was charged with possession of drugs, but there weren't any drugs. 7 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: Perhaps frustrated at finding the place completely bare of so 8 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: much as a loose joint, they ransacked Goldsmith's bathroom, where 9 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: they found some tablets in a container in the medicine 10 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: cabinet that were eventually proven to be prescription allergy medication. 11 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: As the police tore through the apartment, one officer ripped 12 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: a poster of a dong off the wall. He turned 13 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: to one of the guests and demanded to know who 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: the man in the poster is. Apparently the cop didn't 15 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: get the joke because a college student told him that's 16 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: Ho Chi Minh before he went on a diet, and 17 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: when the officer produced the poster in court two weeks later, 18 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: he told the judge it was Ho Chi Minh. One 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: of the young men who was there that night, told 20 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: the police that unless they were charging him with a 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: specific offense, he would not submit to an arrest. As 22 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: a foreign national. He'd specifically sought this guidance from his embassy, Mahmoud. 23 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: Mum Dani would later tell The Washington Post that the 24 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: officer responded by calling him a racial slur and telling 25 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: him to go back where he came from. Eventually, all 26 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: the charges were dropped. The FBI denied any involvement. The 27 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: police may not have found any drugs that night, but 28 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: they found evidence of something far more in city communism. 29 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: I'm Molly Conger and this it's weird, little guys. I'll 30 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: set your mind at ease right now. You may have 31 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: recognized that name my mood mom Dannie as the father 32 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: of Zoran Mamdanni, and neither of them are our weird 33 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: little guy. But the news this week was a real distraction, 34 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: and I didn't end up picking a weird little guy 35 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: at all, but it did get me thinking about something 36 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: that weird little guys spend a lot of time thinking about. 37 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: Last week. On June twenty fourth, Zora Mama won the 38 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: New York City mayoral democratic primary. The next day, the 39 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: President of the United States, posted on truth Social, the 40 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: social media platform that he owns, It's finally happened. The 41 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: Democrats have crossed the line. Zorah Mumdani, a one hundred 42 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: percent communist lunatic, has just won the dem primary and 43 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: it's on his way to becoming mayor. We've had radical 44 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 1: lefties before, but this is getting a little ridiculous. A 45 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: one hundred percent communist lunatic. Huh, Zora Mumdani is a 46 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: Democratic socialist. But that's a distinction that's lost on Donald Trump. 47 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: And he's not alone. The day after the primary, the 48 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: New York Young Republicans Club tweeted a photo of Mumdanni 49 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: with the word deport stampedon read over his face, accompanied 50 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: by this rather alarming demand. A call to action from 51 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: the New York Young Republicans Club. The radicals Zoronmumdanni cannot 52 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: be allowed to destroy our beloved city of New York. 53 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: The Communist Control Act. Lets President Trump revoke Zoron Mumdanni's 54 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: citizenship and promptly deport him. The time for action is now. 55 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: Stephen Miller and Tom Homan, New York is counting on you. 56 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: A day later, Congressman Andy Ogles posted a letter that 57 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: he'd sent to Attorney General Pam Bondi asking the Department 58 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: of Justice to open an investigation into whether Mamdanni could 59 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: have his citizenship revoked. Ogles too called him a communist. 60 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: But what is a communist? I'm not actually going to 61 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,799 Speaker 1: tell you. It's not that kind of podcast. But more importantly, 62 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, because if I'm being honest, my answer 63 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: to the question of is Zoronmumdanni a communist, it's the 64 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: same answer that most wing extremists would give you if 65 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: they were being honest. I don't know, and I don't care. 66 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: In the world of weird little guys, a communist can 67 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: be anyone. Even you remember just two weeks ago you 68 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: heard this. 69 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. She's a communist. You need to stop talking. 70 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 2: Nobody is an She is a communist and anti white liberal. 71 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: That's James alex Field's talking about Heather Hire's mother. He 72 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: was sitting in jail awaiting trial for a hate crime murder, 73 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: and that's what he had to say about the mother 74 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: of the woman he killed. She's the enemy, an anti 75 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: white communist. In later sworn statements produced in civil litigation, 76 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: Fields would agree that he believed every member of the 77 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: crowd that day was Communist. A week after Fields murdered 78 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: a counter protester at that Nazi rally, Jason Kessler, the 79 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: man who organized the Nazi rally hosted Heather Hire, was 80 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: a fat, disgusting communist. Communists have killed ninety four million. 81 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: Looks like it was payback time. While he was in prison, 82 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: Fields received a letter from Matthew Heinbach, the leader of 83 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: the neo Nazi group the Traditionalist Worker Party, in which 84 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: Heinbach referred to the counter protesters that Field hit with 85 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: his car as quote rampaging communist boards. When Christopher Cantwell, 86 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: one of the neo Nazi activists who was supposed to 87 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: give a speech that day, got maced, he blamed, oh, 88 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: you guessed it. Communists. 89 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 3: Ye I don't know all that communists. 90 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: This isn't unique in my work. I see this every day. 91 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: Anyone who opposes fascism is a communist. Anyone advocating for 92 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: racial equality a communist, Democrats, communists, gay people, Jewish people, immigrants, 93 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: civil rights activists, progressive clergy, anyone who's ever attended a 94 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: rally for any left wing cause, communists one and all, 95 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: and it's been like that for decades. Here's George Lincoln Rockwell, 96 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: the commander of the American Nazi Party, in nineteen sixty six. 97 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 4: In my opinion, communism is the organized mutiny. I'm going 98 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 4: to this law because it's a lot packed into a 99 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 4: few words. In my opinion, communism is the mutiny of 100 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 4: quantity versus quality. I think the communism is the organized 101 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 4: mutiny of the inferior biological people in the world, led 102 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 4: by the Jews, against the people who have built civilization. 103 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: That's what I think it is. 104 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: Or how about David Lane, the man who came up 105 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: with the fourteen words. 106 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 2: Before we go any further, we might as well discuss 107 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: three words that are considered by many to mean different things, 108 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 2: but are in reality all one and the same thing. 109 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 2: These three words are Judaism, communism, and the doctrine of equality. 110 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: That clip is from a sermon that David Lane delivered 111 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: at the Aryan Nation's compound in nineteen eighty one, just 112 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: two years before he became a founding member of the 113 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: Nazi terrorist organization The Order. And speaking of the Aryan Nations, 114 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: here's their leader, Richard Butler. 115 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 3: What they can destroy the will of the white man, 116 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 3: who is that communism forever. 117 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: Now, communism is real, It's a real political ideology that 118 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: exists in the world. There are people who are communists, 119 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: and anti communism was a significant force in American politics 120 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: in the twentieth century, from the Palmer Raids during the 121 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: First Red Scare in nineteen twenty to the years of 122 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:43,119 Speaker 1: paranoia and persecution led by Joseph McCarthy, but anti communism 123 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: survived the death of McCarthyism. In his book Red Hunting 124 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: in the Promised Land, Anti Communism and the Making of America, 125 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: Joel Kovell argues that there is a difference between anti communism, 126 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: that is, capital a anti hyphenpital C communism and anti 127 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: communism all one word and lower case. Covelt defines capital 128 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: C communism as actual communists, right, These actually existing movements 129 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: and governments and people who organize according to the principles 130 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: of communism and capital C anti communism, he says, is 131 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: an objective dislike of capital C communism, so capital C 132 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: anti communism is obviously about communism lower case anti communism. 133 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: On the other hand, he calls the reigning ideology of 134 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: the West and argues that it has very little at 135 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: all to do with communism. In nineteen eighty seven, the 136 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: Times Mirror commissioned Gallop to survey the American electorate. Over 137 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: a period of several months, Bolsters conducted in person in 138 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: interviews with four two hundred and forty four American adults 139 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: all over the country, administering a long questionnaire that asked 140 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: a variety of demographic and political questions. Seventy percent of 141 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: respondents self identified as anti communist, compared to forty nine 142 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: percent of people who said they were religious, forty seven 143 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: percent who supported the civil rights movement, and twenty seven 144 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: percent who identified as a supporter of unions. In the 145 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: technical appendix, the Polsters note that quote as an identity 146 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: anti communism is virtually universal in America, but if you 147 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: dig through the responses to the other questions these people 148 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: were asked, it kind of looks like most people who 149 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: claimed that their political identity was as an anti communist 150 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: might not really know what communisms and fifty six percent 151 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: of respondents said they believed that it was the cause 152 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: of most social unrest in America in nineteen eighty seven. 153 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: Covell calls this the black hole of anti communism quote 154 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: a feeling that nullifies any reasoned or differentiated argument that 155 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: distinguishes anti communism from a simple reaction to communism, and 156 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: promotes it to the status of a great organizing force 157 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: an American life, Anti communism took on a kind of 158 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: religious fervor in American politics during the Cold War. Anything 159 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: the government did in the name of fighting the Soviets 160 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: was good. Any opposition to it was bad, to the 161 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: point that people were tying themselves in knots. When religious 162 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: leaders spoke out against the threat of nuclear annihilation, conservative 163 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: writer William of Buckley accused them of idolatry, of venerating 164 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: life at the great cost of ignoring the greater good, 165 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: which is, I guess, having a large nuclear arsenal to 166 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: resist the threat of communism. One of Ronald Reagan's own 167 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: closest advisers admitted during a congressional hearing that he'd been 168 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: unwilling to speak frankly to the President about the obvious 169 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: illegality of the Iran Contra affair because he was afraid 170 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: of being called a kami. Everything done in the name 171 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: of fighting communism is good. Anything that needs to be 172 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: fought is communism, and any resistance to that fight makes 173 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: you no better than a communist. Quote. Viewed against this 174 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: diabolical force, all moral and rational comparisons disappear like light 175 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: sucked in by the virtually infinite gravity of a cosmological 176 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: black hole. Covell wrote, communism could be anything, rendering the 177 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: word effectively meaningless. An accusation I see quite often levied 178 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: at well people like me, people who write about fascism, 179 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: white supremacy, neo Nazis, etc. Is well, you just call 180 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: everyone you don't like a Nazi. And I'm sure there 181 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: are people out there getting a little too casual with it. 182 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: But I can only speak for myself, and I know 183 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: that words mean things, and I'm careful with them. I 184 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: won't say I've never been wrong, but I'm not careless. 185 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: There have been so many times that I've responded to 186 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: that particular jab with just a quick citation. Here's a 187 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: picture of his bedroom with a Nazi flag on the 188 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: wall and a framed picture of Hitler. Here's a video 189 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: of the band in question literally saying straight to camera, 190 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: I am a fascist. Here he is in a clan robe, 191 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: throwing a Roman salute, going on a podcast to talk 192 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: about the sin of race mixing. Whatever. I try to 193 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: use words carefully, but for the anti communist, the word 194 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: is so all encompassing that you can call anyone a 195 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: communist and you'll never be wrong. And no man in 196 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: American history better exemplifies this quixotic project of rooting out 197 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: imaginary communists than j Edgar Hoover. Ellen Schrecker, a historian 198 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: of McCarthyism, wrote that if people had known in the 199 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties what we would eventually learn when the FBI 200 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: was forced to disclose files from that era, McCarthyism would 201 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: have been called Hooverism. In Hoover's nineteen fifty eight book 202 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: Masters of Deceit, he explained just how devious the communists 203 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: can be. The party's objective is to drive a wedge, 204 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: however slight, into as many minds as possible. That is why, 205 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: in every conceivable way, communists try to poison our thinking 206 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: about the issues of the day social reforms, peace, politics, veterans, 207 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: women's and youth problems. The more people they can influence, 208 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: the stronger they will be. Responding to that passage. In particular, 209 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: Fred Cook wrote in his review of the book for 210 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: the Nation, obviously it is hardly safe to think about 211 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: any of the issues in these all embracing categories for 212 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: communists maybe thinking about them too, And how is one 213 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: to know whether one's thoughts are actually one's own or 214 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: the reflection of some subtle communists thought anoculation. By the 215 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, there wasn't the same appetite for the outright 216 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: McCarthyism of the forties and fifties, but Hoover's personal commitment 217 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: to rooting out the specter of communism never faded. I know, 218 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: the little opening vignette of an episode of this show 219 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: is usually kind of a bait and switch, some interesting 220 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: but only tangentially related tidbit that I don't really revisit, 221 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: But this one's fascinating. Remember in nineteen sixty seven, Zoron 222 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: Mamdani's father, Mahmoudmumdani, was a college student at the University 223 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: of Pittsburgh. He was one of several dozen students caught 224 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: up in a police raid at an apartment just off 225 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: campus one night. The police claimed to be looking for drugs, 226 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: They didn't find any, and the charges against all fifty 227 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: three people were dropped. But this wasn't an ordinary college party. 228 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: Half of the people taken into custody that night were 229 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: students from nearby Saint Vincent College, their theology professor, Father Roseboro, 230 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: had left the party early and wasn't there when the 231 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: cops showed up. The party that evening was a reception 232 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: for an out of town guest. David Dellinger, a pacifist activist, 233 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: gave a talk earlier that day at the University of Pittsburgh, 234 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: and he told the audience about his recent visit to Vietnam, 235 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: where he'd gone to talk to the people who'd been 236 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: affected by the American bombing campaign. Frank Goldsmith, the party's host, 237 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: was the chairman of the local chapter of the Committee 238 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: to End the War in Vietnam. Everyone in attendance that 239 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: night was to some degree or another active in the 240 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: anti war movement. Two months after those charges were dropped, 241 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: Marcus Childs wrote an article about the raid in the 242 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: Washington Post. Child was clear that both the FBI and 243 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 1: the DOJ had denied any involvement in the incident, but 244 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: he says that those close to the case believed that 245 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: it was absolutely connected to the FBI's interest in the 246 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: campus anti war group, writing quote, there is reason to 247 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: fear a revival of the Red Scare, the Red Raids, 248 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: and the mccarthuris hysteria. This particular incident itself doesn't get 249 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: much press after that. I mean, there's nothing to report. Right, 250 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: the charges were dropped, it was over. But the very 251 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: day that newspapers ran April twenty first, nineteen sixty seven, 252 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: an FBI agent carefully cut it out of the newspaper 253 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: and xeroxt it. Later that day, that same FBI agent 254 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: wrote a memo to his boss, William Sullivan, the head 255 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: of the bureau's domestic intelligence division running the operation we 256 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: now know as co Intel pro. Attached to the memo 257 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: was that copy of Charles's article in the margins in J. 258 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: Edgar Hoover's handwriting, there's a little note, what are the 259 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: facts as to our interest in this matter? The memo, 260 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 1: written by Charles Brennan claims, quote, the FBI had absolutely 261 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: nothing to do with this raid, and it concludes with 262 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: this paragraph. This is another example of the increasing tendency 263 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: of so called liberal writers and faculty in student groups 264 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: to criticize the Bureau in an effort to stop our 265 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: investigation of subversive elements active in campus groups. These individuals 266 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: are consciously or unconsciously aiding the Communist Party in its 267 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: lifelong fight to stop the FBI's investigation into subverse some 268 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: influences on the campuses. A few days later, j Edgar Hoover, 269 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: the director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation himself, wrote 270 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: the journalist a nasty letter, calling the article irresponsible and outrageous, 271 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: and again claiming that the FBI had no involvement in 272 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: or knowledge of the raid. Now, I don't know if 273 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: you can tell how I feel about Jaedgar Hoover, but 274 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: I don't think he's telling the truth. Shocking, I know, 275 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: but the story doesn't make sense. In several newspaper stories, 276 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh police sometimes claim that they'd been surveilling Frank 277 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: Goldsmith's apartment for weeks. Other articles are very specific that 278 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: they had a search warrant that was signed by hours 279 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: before the raid, and that the warrant specifically authorized for 280 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: the search of marijuana. But the FBI memo and some 281 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: of the newspaper articles claimed that the raid was actually 282 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: just prompted by noise complaints from neighbors and the search 283 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: for drugs was incidental. And then, of course there's the 284 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: fact that declassified FBI files exist for a number of 285 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: people who were at the party that night. Frank Goldsmith, 286 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: the man whose apartment was raided, had been under investigation 287 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: for his involvement in the anti war movement for over 288 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: a year. In one FBI file bearing the title Communist 289 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: Influence in Racial Matters, a memo dated just a few 290 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 1: months before the raid outlined surveillance of Goldsmith performed by 291 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Police Department on behalf of the FBI, and 292 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: the raid at Frank Goldsmith's apartment wasn't Mahmoud mam Danni's 293 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: first rush with FBI surveillance. Two years earlier, in March 294 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty five, he was one of one hundred 295 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: and twenty eight college students from the Pittsburgh area who 296 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: piled into buses that made the twelve hour drive to Montgomery, Alabama, 297 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,239 Speaker 1: and there they participated in a protest organized by these 298 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. 299 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 5: I was born in Kampala, Uganda, in East Africa. I 300 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 5: was given my middle name Kuame by my father, who 301 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 5: named me after the first Prime Minister of Ghana and 302 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 5: decades ago in Uganda we won our independence from the 303 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 5: British in nineteen sixty two. We can clap for that, 304 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 5: and when we did. The United States government gave the 305 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 5: Ugandan government twenty three scholarships as a gift for independence, 306 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 5: and my father won one of those scholarships. He came 307 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 5: to this country to study to be an engineer at 308 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 5: the University of Pittsburgh, and sometime into his studies, his 309 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 5: face buried in his book, he heard the words reverberate 310 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 5: in the corridor around him. Which side are you on? 311 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 5: Which side are you on? These were words being sung 312 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 5: by members of SNICK, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, recruiting 313 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 5: students to get on the bus to go to Montgomery, Alabama. 314 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 5: And my father got on that bus. He marched, He 315 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 5: was hosed down, he was thrown in jail. He was 316 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 5: given one phone call and he called the Ugandan ambassador 317 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 5: the United States. He said, can you get me out 318 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 5: of jail? The ambassador said, what are you doing in jail? 319 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 5: We sent you there to study. My father said, you 320 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 5: sent me here as a gift for our freedom. They 321 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 5: are fighting for theirs. It's one and the same. 322 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,719 Speaker 1: His son's re counting of the story doesn't say how 323 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: many students were on the buses, and neither did any 324 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: of the newspaper stories that I could find from nineteen 325 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: sixty five. But a memo that landed directly on J. 326 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: Edgar Hoover's desk did. The names of every student on 327 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: those buses was turned over to the FBI by formant, 328 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: and in the weeks that followed, Mamud Mumdani was one 329 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: of scores of students who received a visit from a 330 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: federal agent. In an interview in twenty thirteen, Mamoud Mumdani 331 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: says that it was the FBI's obsessive attempts to root 332 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: out communism that ironically introduced him to Marx. Reading from 333 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: that interview, two or three weeks later, I was in 334 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: my room. There was a knock at the door. Two 335 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: gentlemen in trench coats and hats said FBI, and I 336 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: thought wow, just like on television. They sat down. They 337 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: were there to find out why I had gone, because 338 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: this turned out to be big. It was after Montgomery 339 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: that King organized his march on Selma. They wanted to 340 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: know who had influenced me. After one hour of probing, 341 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: the guy said, do you like Marx? I said, I 342 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: haven't met him. I said, no, no, he's dead. Oh wow, 343 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: what happened? No, No, he died long ago. I thought 344 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: the guy Marx had just died, So then why are 345 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: you asking me if he died long ago? No, he 346 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: wrote a lot. He wrote that poor people should not 347 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: be poor, and I said, sounds amazing. I'm giving you 348 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: a sense of how naive I was. After they left, 349 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: I went to the library to look for Marx. So 350 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: that was my introduction to Karl Marx. He'd never heard 351 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: of Karl Marx, but he was already a communist, because 352 00:25:44,119 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: everyone who marched for civil rights was. There is a 353 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: fascinating and complicated history of how anti communism functions, specifically 354 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: in the South during the Civil rights era, But to 355 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: be honest, I feel like I didn't do enough reading 356 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: this week to really do it justice. Their short answer 357 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: is just that it was often politically useful to label 358 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: all civil rights activists as communists, and that was kind 359 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: of the only answer in the literature for a long time. 360 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: But there are a handful of books now that explore 361 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: the complexities of anti communism in the South. Like I said, 362 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: I didn't get a chance to read more than a 363 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: chapter of any of these, so I couldn't tell you 364 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: which I would recommend, but it seems like the best 365 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: sources if you want more on this topic are George 366 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: Lewis's The White South and Red Menace, Segregationists, Anti Communism, 367 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: and Massive Resistance, Jeff Woods Black Struggle, Red Scare, segregation 368 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: and anti Communism in the South, and yeah, Soohiro Kategii's 369 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: Black Freedom, White Resistance, and Red Men. But here's the thing. 370 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: Some of those civil rights activists were communists. That gets 371 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: lost when you explain it all the way as McCarthy's 372 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: hysteria and redbaiting. Some of them were communists, and proudly so. 373 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: But who is or isn't a communist doesn't actually matter 374 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: to the anti communist. Remember that clip of Christopher Caentwell 375 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: being asked who maced him. He has no idea who 376 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: it was, but it was communists, because whatever bad thing 377 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: is happening to him is communism. So I suppose it's 378 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: no surprise that Zoron Mumdani is being accused of being 379 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: a communist, and I do mean accused. People like Congressman 380 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: Andy Ogles are trying to have him investigated. Zoron Mumdani 381 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: is an immigrant, was born in Uganda and moved to 382 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: the United States as a child and became a naturalized 383 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: United States citizen in twenty eighteen. There is no doubt 384 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: about those facts. He is a United States citizen. In 385 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: that post from the New York Young Republicans Club, the 386 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: group cites the Communist Control Act of nineteen fifty four 387 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: as grounds to have Mamdani deported. There are a couple 388 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: of layers here. There's a lot going on, but I 389 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: think they're wrong on every single front. That Act, the 390 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: Communist Control Act, is technically still on the books, but 391 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: it would only bar a member of the Communist Party 392 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: from holding certain offices. It has nothing to do with 393 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: his naturalization status. It was signed into law by President 394 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: Eisenhower in nineteen fifty four, the same year that Eisenhower 395 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: himself was accused of being a card carrying member of 396 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: the Communist Party by Robert Well, the founder of the 397 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: viciously anti communist John Birch Society. Those facts aren't actually 398 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: really related in any way. It's just further proof that 399 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: anyone the anti communist dislikes can be sucked into the 400 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: black hole of anti communism. Even Dwight D. Eisenhower, and 401 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: the Act itself was never really widely used. The Supreme 402 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: Court ruled in the nineteen sixties that it didn't prevent 403 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: the Communist Party from participating in the New York State 404 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: Unemployments Insurance system as an employer, but the ruling didn't 405 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: go further than that as to the constitutionality of the 406 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: law as a whole. It was found to be unconstitutional 407 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: by a federal court in Arizona in nineteen seventy three, 408 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: but a challenge to the law was never heard by 409 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: a higher court, so we don't have a Supreme Court 410 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: opinion on the matter. But again that's because it was 411 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: so rarely used. This wasn't something that was happening a lot, 412 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: and I guess it's no longer safe to make a 413 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: prediction like this, But I would say, in a world 414 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: that stayed even half sane, barring him from holding office 415 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: under the Communist Control Act of nineteen fifty four would 416 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: not hold up. It would not hold up to a challenge, 417 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: although again everything's out the window now. Other Magaspear influencers 418 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: quickly identified another line of attack, one that wouldn't just 419 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: keep him out of office, but could get him out 420 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: of the country. Under the Immigration and Nationality Act, another 421 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: relic of the MacArthur era, members of the Communist Party 422 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: are not eligible to become naturalized citizens. Specifically, Title eight 423 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: US Code, Section fourteen twenty four prohibition upon the naturalization 424 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: of persons opposed to government or law, or who favored 425 00:30:53,600 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: totalitarian forms of government. It's a lengthy section, it managed, 426 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: which is to be incredibly vague and open ended, despite 427 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: taking over a thousand words to explain itself. Section A 428 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: just lists six different situations that would make a person 429 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: ineligible for naturalization, and here is just one of those 430 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: six sub sections. A member of or affiliated with, the 431 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: Communist Party of the United States, any other totalitarian party 432 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: of the United States, the Communist Political Association, the Communists, 433 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: or other totalitarian party of any state of the United States, 434 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: of any foreign state, or of any political or geographic 435 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 1: subdivision of any foreign state, Any section, subsidiary, branch, affiliate, 436 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: or subdivision of any such association or party, or the 437 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: direct predecessors or successors of any such association or party, 438 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: regardless of what name such group or organization may have used, 439 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: may now bear or may hereafter adopt, unless such alien 440 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: establishes that he did not have knowledge or reason to 441 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: believe at the time he became a member of or 442 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: affiliated with such an organization, and did not thereafter, and 443 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: prior to the date upon which such organization was so 444 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: registered or so required to be register, have such knowledge 445 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: or reason to believe that such organization was a Communist 446 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: Front organization? What the fuck does that mean? 447 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 6: Now? 448 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: As always, I'm not a lawyer. I didn't go to 449 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,959 Speaker 1: law school. Nobody taught me how to read the laws. 450 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: But I looked at this pretty hard, and I looked 451 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: very hard for definitions. You see, when legislators write a law, 452 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: they'll often include specific definitions of unique terms or words 453 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: or terms that could be ambiguous. And there are some 454 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: words and phrases in this section that I don't know 455 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: that I would say, have a clear, straightforward, plain language 456 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: meaning that is not ambiguous. So surely there is a 457 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: section somewhere in this chapter that defines specifically what they 458 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: mean by communist front or organization, because that could mean 459 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,479 Speaker 1: a lot of things. But it isn't there. There is 460 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: no definition in this chapter for that term. And I looked, 461 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: and I looked, and it's not in the US Code 462 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: at all. But it used to be. The term was 463 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: originally defined in a law that was passed two years earlier, 464 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: in the Internal Security Act of nineteen fifty, in the 465 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: section of the Code that established the Subversive Activities Control Board. 466 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: The Supreme Court ruled in nineteen sixty five that it 467 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: was unconstitutional to force members of the Communist Party to 468 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: register with the Subversive Activities Control Board, and that entire 469 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: Code section would eventually get repealed in nineteen ninety three, 470 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: which is why it no longer appears in the US 471 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: Code at all. So the Code section we were just 472 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: talking about, the section that would allow for the vitualization 473 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: of people who were members of organizations that were required 474 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: to be registered with a body that no longer exists 475 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: and was found to be unconstitutional. I'm not sure how 476 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: you can sort that out. I'm not sure how you 477 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: can apply a law whose terms are defined in a 478 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: Code section that is unconstitutional and repealed and again at 479 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: the risk of being repetitive. There is another huge problem here. 480 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: He's not a communist, he's not a member of the 481 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 1: Communist Party. He's a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. 482 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: And I promise you it's not a communist organization. So 483 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: even if you were to accept the outrageous argument that 484 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: this law born of Cold War hysteria is valid and 485 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: that it could and should be applied, it doesn't apply. 486 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: He's only a communist in the sense that that's the 487 00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: word used to attack people like him. A lot of 488 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: these rabid anti communist armchair attorneys who are posting online 489 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: are pulling in another section of that same Immigration and 490 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: Nationality Act, Title eight USC. Fourteen fifty one, Revocation of naturalization. 491 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 1: So that last section says that you can't get naturalized 492 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: if you're a member of the Communist Party, but this 493 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: one goes further. Even if you were not a member 494 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: at the time of your naturalization. If you decide later 495 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: to join the Communist Party after you've become a citizen, 496 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: they can take it back. If a person who shall 497 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: have been naturalized after December twenty four, nineteen fifty two, shall, 498 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: within five years next following such naturalization become a member 499 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: of or affiliated with any organization, membership in or affiliation 500 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: with which at the time of naturalization would have precluded 501 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,720 Speaker 1: such person from naturalization. Under the provisions of Section fourteen 502 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: twenty four of this title, it shall be considered prima 503 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: fascia evidence that such person was not attached to the 504 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: principles of the Constitution of the United States and was 505 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: not well disposed to the good order and happiness of 506 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: the United States at the time of naturalization. And the 507 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: section continues saying that naturalization in this situation could be 508 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: revoked for a quote having been obtained by concealment of 509 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: a material fact or by willful misrepresentation. So they're not 510 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: saying you were a communist at the time, we didn't know, 511 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: we caught you later. They're saying that even if you 512 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: never thought about communism until after you were a citizen 513 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: for several years, they can take it as proof that 514 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 1: you lied on purpose, years before the thought ever entered 515 00:36:51,239 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: your head. Denaturalization is not common, at least it didn't 516 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: used to be. Between nineteen ninety and twenty seventeen, there 517 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: were an average of eleven cases per year. And when 518 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: I punched in this code section into court listener who 519 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: website that let's use search federal court filings, I browsed 520 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,280 Speaker 1: a handful of the cases that popped up. They're mostly 521 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,720 Speaker 1: pretty serious, like it's not gray area stuff, it's big 522 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 1: red flag obvious problem. Tize situations like you could see 523 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: why this was a big deal and had to happen 524 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: in many of these cases, like a handful of very 525 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: old men who obtained United States citizenship by covering up 526 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 1: that they'd been Nazi war criminals. There were a surprising 527 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: number of those. In the nineties. We were deporting eighty 528 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: five year old SS officers at a pretty good clip 529 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: there for a minute. Twenty report from the National Immigration 530 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: Project of the National Lawyer's Guild, though, warned that the 531 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: number of denaturalization cases increased dramatically during Trump's first term. 532 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,800 Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, United States Citizenship and Immigration Services announced 533 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: that they were prepared to refer sixteen hundred cases to 534 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: the DOJ for potential denaturalization proceedings. In twenty twenty, the 535 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: DOJ formed a new office dedicated to investigating and litigating 536 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: denaturalization cases. Although, aside from the mention of that office 537 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: in some of these publications that were by and for 538 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 1: immigration attorneys, I can't actually find anything about the existence 539 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: of that office past the date of the DOJ press 540 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: release announcing it, so it's hard to say if they 541 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: actually did that. But denaturalization cases have been increasing in 542 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: recent years and now the administration is seriously considering reviving 543 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:05,439 Speaker 1: it as a tool of suppressing political dissent. In early 544 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 1: June of twenty twenty five, the Justice Department published a 545 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: memo directing attorneys in the DOJ's Civil Division to quote, prioritize, 546 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: and maximally pursue denaturalization proceedings in all cases permitted by law. 547 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: The memo lists ten categories of denaturalization cases. It's got 548 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: the basics, you know, war crimes, terrorism gangs, people who 549 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: lied about their criminal history or made other material misrepresentations 550 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: during the naturalization process. But it also includes as a 551 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: separate category of people to target for having their citizenships 552 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: stripped away. Quote individuals who engaged in various forms of 553 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: financial fraud against the United States, including paycheck protection program 554 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: loan fraud, and medicaid or Medicare fraud. The tenth category 555 00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: is just vibes. Quote any other cases refer to the 556 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,240 Speaker 1: Civil Division that the Division determines to be sufficiently important 557 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: to pursue. And it kind of feels like that one 558 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: means any immigrant who makes the president mad. At a 559 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 1: White House press briefing on June thirtieth, Caroline Levitt declined 560 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 1: to say whether Trump had weighed in on Congressman Ogle's 561 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: calls to deport Mamdanni. Does President Trump want Zooran Mamdani deported. 562 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 7: I haven't heard him say that. I haven't heard him 563 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,919 Speaker 7: call for that, but certainly he does not want this 564 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,879 Speaker 7: individual to be elected. I was just speaking to him 565 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 7: about it and his radical policies that will completely rush. 566 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: But she did say, quote, it's something that should be investigated, 567 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 1: and that he is quote quite literally a communist. These 568 00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: McCarthy's and Earl laws target communists, so it kind of 569 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: matters what a communist is, or at least what they 570 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: think it is. Here are some things that Donald Trump 571 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: has called communism. There's a ro on, Mom, Donnie, of course, 572 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: what did you make of the New York Democrat primary? 573 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm Donnie. 574 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 3: He's a communist. 575 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 8: I think is very bad for New York. 576 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 6: I don't know that he's going to get inconceivable that, 577 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 6: but he's a communist, and he's a pure communist. I 578 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 6: think he admits it. 579 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: And for all the noise he's making about New York 580 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: City getting its first communist mayor, he seems to have 581 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: forgotten they already had one five years ago. He took 582 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 1: time out of a busy day to call into an 583 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: episode of Fox and Friends to call Bill de Blasio 584 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: a communist. 585 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 6: Oh, the mayor has no response. He doesn't know what 586 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 6: he's doing. He's a fool. He's a socialist communist. Maybe 587 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 6: he's a fool. 588 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: And it's not just mayss of New York pledging their 589 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: allegiance to communism in the president's imagination to everyone. I'm 590 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: sure it wasn't the only C word he wanted to 591 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: call her, but he called Kamala Harris a communist throughout 592 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: the few months leading up to the twenty twenty four election. 593 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,879 Speaker 8: She's a Marxist, she's a Marxist. A lot of people say, 594 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 8: don't use the term Marxist because people don't understand. Okay, 595 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 8: she's a communist. 596 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 9: She's a communist, and our country is not ready for 597 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 9: a communist. 598 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 8: It will never be ready for a communist. 599 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: And of course everyone involved in his criminal prosecution was 600 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:43,320 Speaker 1: a communist. 601 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 3: Every time the radical left, Democrats, Marxist, communist and fascists 602 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 3: indicte me, I consider it a great badge of honor 603 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 3: because I am being indicted for you. I am being 604 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 3: indicted for you. 605 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,280 Speaker 1: He couldn't quite make up his mind about Elizabeth Warren. 606 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: At some twenty twenty campaign rallies she was an avowed communist, 607 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: a Marxist even, but other times she's just borderline communist. 608 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 8: And frankly, had Elizabeth Warren been loyal to her philosophy, 609 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 8: which is radical left socialism, perhaps communism, I don't know, 610 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,760 Speaker 8: Perhaps it's verging on communism, right. 611 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: He Warren voters in Georgia that John Ossef and Raphael 612 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: Warnock were going to bring about the communist revolution. 613 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 9: Very simply, you will decide whether your children will grow 614 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 9: up in a socialist country or whether they will grow 615 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 9: up in a free country. And I will tell you 616 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 9: this socialist is just the beginning for these people. These 617 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 9: people want to go further than socialism. They want to 618 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 9: go into a communistic form of government. 619 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: And I have no doubt about. 620 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 2: This. 621 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: Twenty twenty appearance on the Rush Limbaugh Show is reminiscent 622 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: of the sort of classic Civil Rights era anti communism. Right, 623 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: only radical Marxism could explain black people having an interest 624 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: in racial equality. They must be getting riled up. 625 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 6: The first time I ever heard of Black Lives Matter, 626 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 6: I said, that's such a terrible term because it's such 627 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 6: a racist term. It's a term that show's division between 628 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 6: blacks and whites and everybody else. And it's a very 629 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 6: bad term. Four blacks, but they were very angry. It's 630 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 6: a Marxist organization. 631 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: That's the key. 632 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,959 Speaker 6: It's pigs in a blanket, pigs. 633 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: In a blanket. And of course Bernie Sanders is a communist. 634 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,600 Speaker 1: And then some and just this week you call Bernie 635 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: Sanders a maniac and a communist and a communist. Christy Nomes, 636 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,720 Speaker 1: Stephen Miller, Andy Ogels, Marjorie Green, Caroline Levitt, the Libs 637 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: of TikTok Lady the Maga Sphear can't stop talking about it. 638 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: They're surrounded by communists. Trump was surprisingly candid about this 639 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: at a press conference last summer. 640 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 6: All we have to do is define our opponent as 641 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 6: being a communist or a socialist, or somebody that's going 642 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 6: to destroy our country. 643 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: They're communists, they're the enemy. All we have to do 644 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: is call our opponent a communist. It's a little cliche, 645 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: I think, to remind you of the poem, you know, 646 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 1: the one first they came for. But what do you 647 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: think the first line is? Because this is the opening 648 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: of Martin Eimuller's poem in the original German. 649 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 5: That's the Nazis de communist nor words k sweeden ishvaja 650 00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 5: con communist. 651 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,720 Speaker 1: That recording is from the website for the Martin Emuller House, 652 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: a museum in Berlin dedicated to preserving the memory of 653 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,240 Speaker 1: the role played by the Confessing Church and resisting Nazi Germany. 654 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: The first line is not first they came for the socialists, 655 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 1: but that's probably the line you had in your head 656 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,359 Speaker 1: underneath the palm. On the museum's website they note that 657 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: the poem is by Martin Emuller and it says widely 658 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: used worldwide, often carelessly modified. Communists means communists. First they 659 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: came for the Communists, then the trade unionists, then the 660 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 1: social Democrats, then the Jews. But I don't think Americans 661 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,920 Speaker 1: can bear to admit that when someone starts imprisoning and 662 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:18,399 Speaker 1: deporting communists a little bit like a Nazi government. Weird 663 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 1: Little Guys is a prorection of Cool Zone Media and 664 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 1: iHeart ratio. It's researched, written and recorded by me Molly Conger. 665 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Sophie Liechtman and Robert Evans. The 666 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 1: show is edited by the wildly talented Ory Gagan. The 667 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 1: theme music was composed by Brad Dickert. You can email 668 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,319 Speaker 1: me at Ridttle Guys Podcast at gmail dot com. I 669 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,279 Speaker 1: will definitely read it, but I probably won't answer it. 670 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 1: It's nothing personal. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the 671 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:42,960 Speaker 1: show without the listeners on the weirdsle the Guys subreddit. 672 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,680 Speaker 1: Just don't post anything that's going to make you on 673 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: my weird Little Guys