1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: you live in a robot free household, don't you? I 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: mean relatively as far as I know. I mean, you 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: probably have robots more or less in the form of 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: many of your electronic implements, but you do not have 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: an actual robot to say, comes out and back into 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: the floor. Do you not have a roomba? Um, I 10 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: do not have a pleo or or any of the 11 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: other gadgets I have to say, Uh, I have a 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: roomba who lives in our household and it's uh current currently. Unfortunately, 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: his battery is weird, so he's his his Well, yeah, 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: I think I kind of picture him as the as 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: the cat's brother, so they don't really see brother does 16 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: the room. I have a name, um, technically Maximilian because 17 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: he's red, so named after the red robot and black hole. 18 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: But but yeah, so he's a part of the household, 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: especially when he's moving around. UM, so I can't help 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: but think of him throughout the research for this particular podcast, 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: in which we talk about the idea of the robot household, 22 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: which is already, like I said, a reality to a 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: certain extent in my household, and will be a reality 24 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: in your household. Just give it time, they will come. Well, 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: I think about this in our golden age ages, Um, 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: you know, in our sunset years, probably all of us, 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: I'll of you out there listening, will be uh ensconsin 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: some sort of robotic household. I mean, I'm not talking 29 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: about like Rosie the robot or anything, but um, it's 30 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: a it's a fairly likely that, you know, as the 31 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: aging population comes to fruition, at least here in the 32 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: United States, that will have some robot helpers. I was 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping that when I'm in my 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: my golden years, I will be encased in a robot, 35 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: like a big armored you know, maybe and we'll talk 36 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: about that all right, like a power suit like a 37 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: RoboCup to kind of a thing. And this could be 38 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: kind of scary. I mean, could think about some wiley 39 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: senior citizens marauding the streets and their exoskeletons. So so, 40 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: why why why are we discussing the why? I mean, 41 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: obviously there's a robot in my health because they don't 42 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: like vacuuming the floors, and if the robot can do it, 43 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: that's great. You can't talk about robots without talking about Japan, right, Okay, 44 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: because we already know that Japan has has embraced robot technology, 45 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: and certainly for many reasons, but one of them is 46 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: because of their aging population. Right. The Japanese have some 47 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: of the longest life expectancies and with a large aging 48 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: population about forty thousand centenarians okay, about forty people over 49 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: the age of or at one hundred or over the 50 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: age of one hundred, that's a lot um and fewer 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: children to take care of them due to the line 52 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: in post World War two birthrates, uh, we have they 53 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: have a serious problem. In fact, we're talking about the 54 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: year fifty five, about four out of every ten Japanese 55 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: will be classed as elderly. And who's gonna look after them? 56 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: There are not going to be as many young people 57 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: around two help grandma across the street. So let's see 58 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: if we can get a robot in there, right, And 59 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: and not just top across the street, but just everyday 60 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: stuff that an elderly person might need help with. To 61 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: what extent, Can we get a robot in there to 62 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: improve their quality of life and uh and and make 63 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: life possible in some cases. Yeah, it's a very real solution. UM. 64 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: In addition, each month there are eight hundred and seventy 65 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: thousand more people around the world who fall into the 66 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: over age sixty five group. So it's not just Japan, 67 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: but certainly Japan is is a good lens to look 68 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: through this. UM. Now, we do have some current technology 69 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: that we're using. We've talked about this before. Cody the 70 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: sponge bath robot for the elderly. Yes, and of course 71 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: anytime someone says Cody the sponge bath robot, you know 72 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: you can't help but laugh. But they're actually very helpful. 73 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: They can open doors and drawers and cabinets using equilibrium 74 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: point controllers. Um. There's a baby seal Pero, super cute. UM. 75 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: You know, it moves, it's a little head, it's a 76 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: little baby seal. It's really helpful UM for Alzheimer's patients. Okay, 77 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: kids like having Like you go to an old folks 78 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: home and there will be a dog or a cat 79 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: that helps the the individuals there. You know, they can 80 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: connect with it. Not right, they bond with it. They 81 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: began to talk to it, tell it things that might 82 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: otherwise be sort of locked up in their heads. Right. 83 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: It's also really effective for kids with autism because and 84 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,919 Speaker 1: actually a lot of robots and machines like even like 85 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: the iPad are really effective with kids with autism because it's, uh, 86 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: it's something they can predict, right, it's the same behavior 87 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: over and over again. I wonder what Cody, the SpongeBot, 88 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: the sponge SpongeBob SquarePants. That's what I want to say. Yeah, 89 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: I wonder what Cody looks like, because I'm picturing a 90 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: robotic cowboy that it gives sponge baths and it's like, hello, partner, 91 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: can you lift your leg? That kind of thing that's 92 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: so creepy. Yeah, for the badge and everything I know, 93 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: And then I'm thinking about the ten gallon hat and everything. Um, 94 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: that's probably some other type of robot for some other 95 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: fetish thing. Um, there's ties. Oh, the physical therapy bot 96 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: with twenty six joints in its body. It's a it's 97 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: a mechanical exercise instructor and and then robotic legs in 98 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: the form of an exoskeleton. This really does exist. It's 99 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,679 Speaker 1: technology from Suberdine, and they're developing robotic legs that elderly 100 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 1: or injured people can wear for physical therapy to regain 101 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: muscle mass and help them to walk again and terrorize 102 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: the city, right yeah, and and and terrorize all the 103 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: whipper snappers out there. I's already using hospitals across Japan, 104 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: of course. And it also monitors signals from the brain 105 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: and moves the robots limbs as the wearer tries to 106 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: move their own way. So this is really good technology 107 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: that's that's in place and is only going to be 108 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: improved upon. So it's just a question of when. Yeah, 109 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: and and certainly if you you know, you put robotics 110 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: into your your your Google news feed, you're you're just 111 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: We're just constantly bombarded with these new technologies and new possibilities. 112 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: But at the at the end of the day, we 113 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: have to think about, all right, how are we going 114 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: to live with these things? Let's talk about the practical 115 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: as because because we can develope we can dream up 116 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: ideas and we can develop the tech all day. But 117 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: what's it gonna be like to share a household with 118 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: eighteen different robots? Right? What? What? Okay? Rosie the robots 119 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: seems like an awesome idea, but you know, does she 120 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: have her own little annoying behaviors? Well, she was pretty 121 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: annoying on the TV show just the one, right, yes, 122 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: I mean the first thing is the voice, right. So, 123 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: but this is a big question, like there's all these 124 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: different things people have to get used to living with 125 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: robots on a day to day basis, And of course 126 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: there is an entity who has come up with a 127 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: way of how to measure that. And the entity is 128 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: called LEAR, which stands for Living with Robots and Interactive Computers, 129 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: and it's a European funded research project exploring how we'll 130 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: live with digital and interactive companions. Um they say. Throughout 131 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: the project, we're exploring on how to design digital and 132 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,119 Speaker 1: interactive companions who can develop and read emotions and act 133 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: cross platform sounds kind of doesn't exactly sound like very cuddly, like, hey, 134 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: this is gonna be the best roommate ever. Now, this 135 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: is the idea that you might have several different mechanical 136 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: forms that do tasks around the house, but one mind 137 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: one AI like one how that that lives in your 138 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: house and it will be like I hope it's not 139 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: how well, you know that's that's the how kind of 140 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: sums up the fear. How it's kind of like this Frankenstein, um, 141 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: Frankstein's monster creation that they didn't embody so much about 142 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: what we fear about AI and as we'll discuss. I mean, 143 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: that's a part of the concerns moving forward with the 144 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: idea of sharing a house with a robot. Can we 145 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: trust it? Well? And I mean they're not just looking 146 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: at this is okay, here you have a robot. It's 147 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: probably gonna last for a year. No, they're talking about 148 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: long term relationships here, okay, because you're probably gonna be 149 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: hanging out with that robot for I don't know, twenty years. 150 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: It may be the longest relationship of your life. Yeah, um, okay. 151 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: So they came up with they, along with other partners, 152 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: this this thing called five Weeks in the Robot House. 153 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: Oh yes, this is the University of Hertfordshire, I believe. Yeah, 154 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: Adapted Systems Research Group, School of Computer Science. This was 155 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: a really fascinating study. Um, because again I couldn't help 156 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: but think of the roomba that lives in my house 157 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: with every example and uh and so so basically what 158 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: they did they set out to do like five different scenarios, 159 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: brought in people non computer science people. Yeah, actually I 160 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: think it was university students and staff members, and they 161 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: were all to to hang out with these robots on 162 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: it in the road in the robot house. Not to 163 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: be confused with robot house the fraternity from Mars University 164 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: in futurama exactly that, not that one. And in fact, 165 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: let me just read this little uh explanation about the 166 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: paper that's published on this, because I really feel like 167 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: it sounds like a great reality TV treatment. It says 168 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: this paper presents five exploratory trials investigating scenario is likely 169 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: to occur when a personal robot shares a home with 170 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: a person, Right, doesn't that seem like the perfect sort 171 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: of I think it would be great pilot. Yeah, I 172 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: think we could host it. Okay, let's do it, all 173 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: right tilse you heard that, But so so let's look 174 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: at the different scenarios. Um. The the first one that 175 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: we have a right up here on is the hot 176 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: and cold game trial, which is basically the person is 177 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: trying to guide the robot to do something or find 178 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: something in the house and they're doing the whole all right, 179 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: you're a little bit hot. Now you're a little cold. 180 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: You're a little hot, you're a little bit cold. But 181 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: the the way that they were manipulating the test subjects 182 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: in this was that they were in some cases that 183 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: the person's response of hot or cold don't actually get 184 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: the robot any closer. Like the idea here is not 185 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: to get the robot to find it, but to frust 186 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: potentially frustrate the person giving the robot instructions, because this 187 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: is going to happen right, right, and it should be 188 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: added to then in all these scenarios we're talking about 189 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: in robot house, uh, there's a there's a certain amount 190 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: of autonomy at play. But in some cases the the 191 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: people conducting the research manipulated the robot because ultimately, here 192 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: the idea is not let's see how robots behave, let's 193 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: see how people behave in the presence of robots. Right, 194 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: So they were manipulating the robots via a remote control 195 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: and they called it the Wizard of Oz method. So there, 196 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: so again there was the hot and cold game trial. 197 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: Then there's the robot in the family trial, and this 198 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: is all about space negotiate negotiation. The idea that all right, 199 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: you're trying to carry on normal stuff around the house. 200 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: What happens when you're, say, having a conversation and a 201 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: robot passes between you. What happens if you're in an 202 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: argument maybe and the robot decides it needs to clean 203 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 1: all the walls in the room at that like, how 204 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: does that? How does it affect the basic um, the 205 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: basic feel of the home? How do how are people 206 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: going to react to it? Um? Then there's the confidential 207 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: information disclosure trial, and that one was my favorite. Yes, Now, 208 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: this is the one where I believe that human will 209 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: take one of the test subjects and they'll be walking 210 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: around the house talking about ways too to redecorate things, 211 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: but they'll end up sort of slipping some personal information, 212 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: and then the robot will bring the personal information up. 213 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: So and I think too that the robot was manipulating 214 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: the conversation to get more personal information about habits and health. Yeah, okay, 215 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: and then yes, and then at certain predetermined points and 216 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: in the conversation, the robot would interrupt the person right 217 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: and awkward fashion. The example they gave him the ride up, 218 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: The experimenter says, I always try to go to sleep 219 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: early so I can get a night's sleep and then 220 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: the robot says, dag the experiment or did not go 221 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: to bed until three o'clock last night, and awkward, did 222 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: that right? Because you're like, robot, yeah, quit, you know, 223 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: why are you? Why are you sharing that information? Right? 224 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: And they they of course they did this on purpose. 225 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: They didn't want the robot to be malicious. But what 226 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: they wanted to try to if it's almost like a 227 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: little kid, right, a little kid sometimes doesn't know uh 228 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: not to say something that is factually correct, but you know, 229 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: potentially insensitive to the person. So this is going to 230 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: happen when a robot stores data on you. And the 231 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: important thing here too, is that the robot would ideally 232 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: need to store that data if it's going to navigate 233 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: not only the physical spaces of your home but the 234 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: but the spaces of your life. It needs to have 235 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: some information about when you go to bed, when you're 236 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: getting up, especially if it's say you you don't want 237 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: your robot doing certain tasks while you're awake or while 238 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: you're in the house. Yeah, if you raid your refrigerator 239 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: at three am, you know, if you're bag you want 240 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: your robot not to come, you know, trumping by right, 241 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: So it came and end up coming into some of 242 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: the same situations of privacy that we have with email 243 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: and everything else electronic in our lives. Um, this robot 244 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: has all this data. Is that data safe? Could somebody 245 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: hack my robot and find out when I'm home? Could 246 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: they hack my robot and find out what? The idea 247 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: that instantly comes to my mind is the idea of 248 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: these different models of the kindle where you can pay 249 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: and get this, you know, basically an electronic reader. You 250 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,719 Speaker 1: can pay a little less and get one that has 251 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: ads on it. So I can easily imagine a future 252 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: where someone said, well, we can't quite afford the home 253 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: robot that comes AD free, so instead we have to 254 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: endure the one that will occasionally chime in with commercial 255 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: pitches if it comes up in our conversation. That's very possible. 256 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: I mean think about that. We did the podcast called 257 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: Raised by Machines, Right, and we talked about the little 258 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: kids who are being watched at the Japanese retailer and 259 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: the robots. They're very friendly looking, will take pictures of 260 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: your children as they're playing, but we'll also beam advertisement 261 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: at your child. Uh so, yeah, I mean, you're right 262 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: to offset the cost, you might be willing to take 263 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: some sort of robot that is constantly going to tell 264 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: you about Stuffer's pizza, right, But in that, I mean, 265 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: how different is that than say, any children's network out there. 266 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: I guess it's just I guess, I guess it's Again, 267 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: it's the story of the data. Stuffer's pizza. They really 268 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: love that pepperoni, you know, or I don't know. I 269 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: do I care if if stuffer'st knows that, probably not. 270 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: But again, it's the ability to mass all this information 271 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: that's problematic. Well, okay, two more trials that they did 272 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: in the Robot house real quick. One was watching TV 273 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: with the robot, and this is basically you're trying to 274 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: watch TV and the robot will come up and offer 275 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: you drinks and snacks and stuff, which I think sounds 276 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: pretty good. Um. And then there's helping the robot, And 277 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: in this the humans are engaged in some of their 278 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: tasks and the robot is trying to get their attention 279 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: too because it needs to a door opened for it. 280 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: So in some cases the robots kind of just sort 281 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: of being passive aggressive about it and kind of hinting 282 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: at the fact that hey, I wish somebody would open 283 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: this door for me so I could go through, And 284 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: then in some of the cases, the robot actually comes 285 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: up to the person and says, hey, can you get 286 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: this door for me? Again? I was thinking about the room. 287 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: But you know, the roombot gets stuck or this is 288 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: what I've heard. You know, it's very possible that robot 289 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: is trying to negotiate a corner and gets stuck. So, um, 290 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: it's it's measuring to to what extent a human is 291 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: willing to help out a robot, not because it's being altruistic, 292 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: but you know, what sort of functionality does this robot 293 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: have and how much are humans willing to put up 294 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: with it? Right? And then it plays into the wider 295 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: scope of the studies. Do just see how like people 296 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: think about the robot, how they how they interact with 297 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: the robot, and what their attitude towards the robot in 298 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: the house is. Yeah. Yeah, So let's talk about the 299 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: results of all those five different studies. Okay, so we're 300 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna get 301 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: back to all this. So hanging there for one second, 302 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: this podcast is brought to you by Intel, the sponsors 303 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: of Tomorrow and the Discus Very channel. At Intel, we 304 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: believe curiosity is the spark which drives innovation. Join us 305 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: a curiosity dot com and explore the answers to life's questions. 306 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: And we're back. First the hot and Cold game trial, 307 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: the whole You're hot your cold. I'm trying to get 308 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: the robot to do something, but the robot is frustrating 309 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: me by not following my instructions. And uh. They found 310 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: two interesting patterns. One participants assigned less credit to the 311 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: robot and more to themselves, and participants as signed more 312 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: blamed to the robot and less to themselves. So that's 313 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: rather illuminating. I think about the the idea that if 314 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: the robots doing good, it's it's on us. If it's 315 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: doing bad, it's like, come on, technology, you're failing me. 316 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: But that to me, that seemed right on target, because 317 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: haven't you when whenever you've been beating on your keyboard, 318 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: like you know, a jack and apes, it's sort of 319 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: like you're blaming the computer, but it's always user right, 320 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: right this thing or you know, my phone drives me crazy, 321 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: but most of the time is my my big phones 322 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: but aren't able to navigate it. Well, I think like 323 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: even some giant thombs. Well like even with the room, 324 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: but in the in in our house, he has frustrated 325 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: me in the past by refusing to to work properly. Uh, 326 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: and it times I'll be like, oh, come on, room, 327 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: but why won't you work? Why won't you vacuum this floor? 328 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: And and sometimes it will come down to I have 329 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: there's a step I need to take cleaning you that 330 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 1: I have not known to take in the past, where 331 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: I didn't or or I haven't known exactly to what extent, 332 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: Like I didn't know that occasionally you might need to 333 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: take your room but out into the backyard internal leafblower 334 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: on it. But but sometimes it works, so store that away. 335 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: But but yeah, so it's it's easy to imagine this, 336 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: and like, if you have this robot in your house, 337 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: are we just gonna always be yelling at it? Is 338 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: it just gonna be this emotional punching bag. Well, it's 339 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: very possible, right, What is that the saying about familiarity 340 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: breeds contempt? Yeah? Right, alright, So robot and the family trial, 341 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: what did we learn with this? Okay, well, but the 342 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: participants didn't really actually mind the robots moving about so much. Um, 343 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: but they really appreciated the fact that robots would say 344 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: excuse me when negotiating space around them. So it always 345 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: comes down to the little niceties in life, don't you think, 346 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: yeah again to the room. But I don't think I 347 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: find it that annoying if the robot is in the 348 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: room with me, or certainly if it if the roller 349 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: bumps into me, even I'm not like going to freak 350 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: out because I know it's just navigating the space. It's 351 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: doing its job, and if I really want to get 352 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: upset about it, I can turn the room, but of 353 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,239 Speaker 1: off in vacuum my own floor, which is not going 354 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: to happen all right now. The confidential information trial, now 355 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: this is the one where people generally were very concerned 356 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: U five participantorating themselves as feeling uncomfortable or very uncomfortable. 357 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: Uh five participants were we're neutral into we're comfortable. But 358 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: but enough red flags were raised here that people were like, 359 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: I don't really like the robot bringing up personal stuff 360 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: during my conversations or throwing my own words back at me. 361 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: Right and again, like to your point earlier, they they 362 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: knew that data needed to be stored about them. But 363 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: again it was Yeah, it was throwing the information in 364 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 1: their face. Um, are being concerned about how it was 365 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: going to be maintained, you know, what sort of sensitive 366 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: information and security measures were going to be taken, which 367 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: would make sense, right, I mean, these are the conversations 368 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: that we're having about cloud computing right now. So um yeah, 369 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: I mean and you know, is my robot gonna blackmail me? Yeah? 370 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: I mean it was my response. Yeah, I mean, we 371 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a big fear the whole basically, the fear 372 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: of the AI potentially turning against us. There was an 373 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: old sci fi original picture, and if anybody knows the 374 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: name of this, let me know, because I could not 375 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: find it searching around. But there was a film where 376 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: they had like an automated system in the house and 377 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: there was like a robot hand that travels around on 378 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 1: this little runner along the ceiling like it does embodied 379 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: robot hand, well know, like a terminator arm kind of 380 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: thing that was attached to a a wheeled gadget that 381 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: runs around on like a trolley car and the ceiling 382 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: and it eventually goes hey wire and starts running around 383 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: with a knife but see, I knew that. I just knew. 384 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: That's like that the you know, the premise of any 385 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: good horror story, and bring a cannon on stage. You 386 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: gotta fire, right, all right? So watching TV with the robot, 387 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 1: that one did pretty well. People tended to not mind 388 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: a robot offering you drinks and snacks during your favorite show. 389 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: This is what I thought was so funny about it. 390 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: They were like, okay, yeahcent of them thought the robot 391 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: was making too much effort, but they were like, oh 392 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: but still, I was pretty well attended to, you know. 393 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: And then finally helping the robot trial. This one was 394 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: interesting because it seems like people did not respond really 395 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: well to the subtle hints the robot was giving and 396 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: and even either they didn't notice that the robot needed 397 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: help at all, or they were like, I think the 398 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: robot needs help, but I really don't know what I 399 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: could do, or if I'm supposed to help the robot, 400 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: that's right. There are three responses. They claimed to either 401 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: be unaware, or they were aware but they weren't quite sure, 402 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: as you just mentioned, or they thought that watching TV 403 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: was more important. Oh well, you know, if it's a 404 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: really good show, I guess right. But it reminded me 405 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: of the Bostander effect that we talked about um in 406 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: people's willingness, like what is my appropriate response and could 407 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: I even help? I don't know. Yeah, it kind of 408 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: and it makes me think like, well, if there were 409 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: a bunch of other people in the room where they 410 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: feel pressured to then go and help the robot, A 411 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: suppose it's just sitting there going you know what, it's 412 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: a really good place in this movie right now, I'm 413 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: not going to get up and help you out of 414 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: that corner. Now. This is one that I feel like 415 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: would be different in an actual home environment where the 416 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: robot belonged to you or something, or it was you 417 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: were more part of it. Because these were test subjects, 418 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: so I could see them being like, I don't know 419 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,239 Speaker 1: if I'm supposed to help the robot. They didn't say 420 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: anything about helping the robot. You know, at the beginning 421 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: of the test, they just told me to watch TV 422 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 1: and eat snacks. And I could totally get a credit 423 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: for it, man, but more snacks please. Well. One of 424 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: the the overall findings that came out of that one too, though, 425 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: it was they because they end up making various arguments 426 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: about what we need to think about going forward with 427 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: the with the feature of the robot house, and they said, 428 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: you need to have clear signals if the robot needs help, 429 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: you need there no beating around the bush. Robot needs 430 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: to let you know. And that's something I feel that 431 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: the room bat robot. And then I hope this doesn't 432 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: sound like too much like an advertisement for the room, 433 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,959 Speaker 1: but it's the only robot that lives in. But you 434 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: clearly have a relationship with your room. But yeah, and 435 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: I'm convinced that when you like your room, but you 436 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: call it max, but when it's in trouble you call 437 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: it Maximilian. Is well, yeah, if I'm talking to it 438 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: and giving it a hard time. But but but the 439 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: thing about the design, and this is an older model 440 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: that we have, so I feel like the makers are 441 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: already on top of this a little like it has 442 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: definite little sing song beeps that it gives for such 443 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: different circumstances. And I'm not well versed enough in its 444 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: language to know necessarily which what what it's saying with 445 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: each one of them, but they're there are definite sounds 446 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: that it makes when it makes make when it's stuck 447 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: that it will make when it's uh, when it's running 448 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: low on battery, or when it finished. And that's like 449 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: this little victory song and all. So I feel like 450 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: it is already a pretty clear about when it needs 451 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: my help. Um well, I think it again. It just 452 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: sort of brings up how complicated uh communication is, even 453 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: just among humans. Then to have a machine trying to 454 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: communicate with us and living with all those little different 455 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: nuances that we take for granted, those um you know, 456 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,879 Speaker 1: nonverbal signals that we give each other that helps us 457 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: to negotiate the world, or certain social norms. Like one 458 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: thing that came up was the whole passing between two 459 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: people when they're having a conversation. It's something that people 460 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: generally don't do, just on principle, unless you absolutely have 461 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: to cross between two people having a conversation, you just 462 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: don't do it because it's rude. But the robots and 463 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: these studies didn't have any problem with that. The people, 464 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: of course did, and so that's something you would have 465 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: to think about, like the robot keeping a safe, a 466 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: reasonable polite distance from people during certain parts of one's life, 467 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: and this would spill over to like the robot being 468 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: able to realize if there is, say a heated argument 469 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: going on, and knowing that that it's maybe not the 470 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: best time to decorate the walls or deliver some personal data. Right. Yeah, 471 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: not to throw any facts back that you ever remind 472 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: you about things. Well, you're saying, you know, in an 473 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: emotional state, or if you've just woken up and you're 474 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: clearly or if you're you know, you're in a grumpy mood, 475 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: maybe knows not to mess with you that kind of thing. 476 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: And there's so many nuances that we would need to 477 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: navigate in addition to navigating the space. And that's the 478 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: other thing, navigating the space and navigating these moving people 479 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: in a way that's safe. Like like we have a 480 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: rule in our household that the well, I guess the 481 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: rule is the room, but doesn't go in the kitchen either. 482 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: But the cat doesn't go in the kitchen. Be not 483 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: so much because the cat's gonna jump on anything. But 484 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: it's a dangerous place to have an animal underfoot because 485 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: you could potentially injure the animal and or yourself. You're 486 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: carrying the plates, you're carrying hot dishes, you're you're carrying knives. 487 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: It's just not a safe environment for an animal to 488 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: be walking around your feet. Likewise, you would need to 489 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: take these concerns into into mind when figuring out how 490 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: a robot navigates the household. Yeah, rope lot should not 491 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: go into the utility room, right, No, no axes, uh no, 492 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: no writing, lawnmowers definitely don't see robot. Well, yeah, actually 493 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: make a little algorithm of it, but maybe that robot 494 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: stays outside. Well. One of the studies that that you 495 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: sent me it Um mentioned how that the possibility of 496 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: having the one robot mind that uses different bodies in 497 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: the house about the idea that it would be. It 498 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: would be sincd with the with with the electrical grid 499 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: for the apartment or house, so it would be able 500 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: to tell when certain appliances or objects were being used 501 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: and therefore no like where you were or in other 502 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: cases they'd be able to like know where your footfalls 503 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: are happening in the house, just keeping track of where 504 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: the person is at all times and to know and 505 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: also you can imagine this being implemented into larger data 506 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: to know that well, they never go in the basement 507 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: during the day, So I'm going to do something annoying 508 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: in the basement, that's the time, right, and they could 509 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: also use that information to punk you in the bathroom 510 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: and turn off all the lights. The Robot House study 511 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: that one of the big findings though, was that they're 512 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: finding suggested a quote negative relationship between robot autonomy and 513 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: human responsibility when both are working on a collaborating task, 514 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: which I've found uh again kind of telling about us 515 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: and uh and you know, and and it just brings like, 516 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: how to what extent can we avoid that? Like our again, 517 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: our robots just gonna be punching bags in our houses? 518 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: Are we going to just yell at them? Are they 519 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: going to be our our abused servants? I mean, I 520 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: honestly can see some sort of literature coming out or 521 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: psychological studies about how to best deal with AI and 522 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: cooperate with it, with with the end goal being that 523 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: the better information you give your robot, the better you cooperate, 524 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: but that the better service is going to provide you. 525 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: I know that sounds weird, but I think that this 526 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: is the sort of things that we're going to see 527 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: in the future because it's going to become so important 528 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: to our day to day lives, especially if you're a 529 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: senior citizen just trying to to live, especially if you're 530 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: senior citizen and hand right and you're just trying to 531 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: get a meal together. UM, you don't want to be 532 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: really fighting with your robot fighting in air quotes, I suppose, yeah, 533 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: And and to what extent to then, if someone is 534 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: abusive towards their robot is to what extent is that 535 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: a real red flag about that individual? And maybe there 536 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: needs to be some sort of intervention. I know there's 537 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, like AI psychology newfield, if it doesn't 538 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 1: actually I guess it's at least emerging. Well, I mean 539 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: it's certainly being used to try to UM to program machines, 540 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: and but in terms of how we are dealing with 541 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: robots or psychological basis and how we can better deal 542 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: with them, I don't think that it's in full force. Yeah, 543 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: And and at what point do they have rights? At 544 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: what point does it significantly advanced AI have some sort 545 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: of human rights for itself? But no, I mean that's 546 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: a that's an interesting proposition. I mean that that we've 547 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: talked about animal rights before, right, so you know, it's 548 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: always hard to get outside of our human psyche, and 549 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's easy to antimorphizes something when we think 550 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: they're cute or they're dangerous, but you know, outside of that, 551 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to say, oh, well, that has 552 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: rights or shouldn't have rights because it's not us. That 553 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: was another aspect of the study, the robot house study. 554 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: They had the four different models they had people look 555 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: at remember um two headheads you didn't. They had the 556 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: mechanoid versions, which just looked like clunky machines that fold 557 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: around your house. And then they had two versions and 558 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: hands and arms. Uh. In this so they were also 559 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: gauging like which which models the people prefer. Do they 560 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: want something that looks just like a you know, a 561 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: piece of equipment rolling around the house, or do they 562 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: want the person? Yeah, which brings up the whole on 563 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: Kenny Valley Harry, which we'll talk about it in a 564 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: different podcast sometimes soon here. But alsot of issues that 565 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: pop up. So hey, let's uh pull something from the 566 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: mail bag, why don't we all right? One comes to 567 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: us from John. John rides in and says, hi, Robert, 568 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: Julie and Matt, Hey check that out. Matt, you gotta mention, Uh, 569 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: I enjoy your podcast and am pleasantly surprised that your 570 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: ability to take any topic and captivate my attention as 571 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: you dive into the topics and discuss the science behind them. 572 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: I cannot help but let my mind wander as well 573 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: in listening to the podcast I'm bringing Science Monster in 574 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: and other references of the Blue Brain Project. I cannot 575 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: help but wonder will it ever be possible to create 576 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,719 Speaker 1: a man that is our caliber of reasoning and understanding? 577 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: As we dive into the mysteries of God and unravel 578 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: the complexity of the human are we not enlightened and 579 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: so influenced in an ever changing light? Will our understanding 580 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: of ourselves mirror our true consciousness? Or will the knowledge 581 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: we gain influence our evolution to deeper, more introspective self. 582 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: Every great discovery has in time changed our view of 583 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: the world and likewise changed our thinking. Therefore, can we 584 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: truly understand the mind? Or will it's ever changing nature 585 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: adapt to the new understandings we find and continue to 586 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: work in complex perhaps altering uh are the physical connections 587 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: and thus connecting the physical properties of the knowledge that 588 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: we hold, and thus keeping the brain and mind transfixed 589 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: in a world scene uh, but not touched or understood 590 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: just some cooper thought your fans. John, Wow, I really 591 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: like that because it made me think a lot about 592 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: how we've talked about when the fictions of our realities 593 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: fall away, sometimes we're frightened of because we feel like 594 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: there's no mystery left. And he is, in fact, I think, 595 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: suggesting that there's the possibility for deeper in introspection and 596 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: maybe even other mysteries. Indeed, and this is exactly the 597 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: kind of like fan mail I like to to get 598 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of what we do 599 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: is like we throw up some really cool ideas, some 600 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: really cool um research into various topics and then just 601 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: sort of throw hopefully throw open the barn doors for 602 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: everyone to sort of go out and think even even 603 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: farther about it. And well, yeah, yeah, and it's great 604 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: to hear that that someone's been procolating on that in 605 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 1: their ideas. Yeah, it fires me up, indeed, So thanks John, 606 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: and glad to hear that some of our podcasts have 607 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: got your you got your brain move in there, So 608 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: if you would like to share anything with us, and 609 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: in particular, and I'm interested to hear from other pool 610 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: who have robots in in their household, um, even far 611 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: more advanced robotic households or workplaces uh than my own. Uh. 612 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: How do you interact with the robot? How do you 613 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: feel about the robot? It's a part of your life? 614 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: And and and also along these five different tests that 615 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: we studied in this podcast, how do how do? How 616 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: does your experience? The line up with their findings. You 617 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook and Twitter. We'll blow the 618 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: Mind on both of those and um, you know you 619 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: can you can share stuff there or or you can 620 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: always drop us a line. Let us know the name 621 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: you have given to your room BA by sending us 622 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: an email at blow the Mind at how stuff works 623 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: dot com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast, 624 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as 625 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.