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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports where in a situation

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Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, the pandemic

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Speaker 1: here has really accelerated the investments that we've been advocating

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Speaker 1: for for a year. From a macro standpoint, I think

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Speaker 1: our sport industry is really forced to look at the

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Speaker 1: business a little bit differently. In depth conversations with the

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Speaker 1: leaders in the sports industry and he sport, there's a

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Speaker 1: good admiration. We're still moving forward part of something much

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Speaker 1: bigger than the sport right now, the health and tradustry

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Speaker 1: of our stakeholders are real smart important every moment. I

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Speaker 1: think we're all from a business respective thinking about the

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Speaker 1: impact that the virus is having across the country. In

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio, Hi everyone, I'm

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Speaker 1: Jason Kelly, and I'm Mike Lynch and I'm Michael Barr

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Speaker 1: And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast where

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Speaker 1: we explore the big money issues in the world of

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Speaker 1: sports today. We are all really really excited. There's a

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Speaker 1: new book out it's called The Mets. We are joined

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Speaker 1: by the author himself, Devin Gordon. The book is called

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Speaker 1: So Many Ways to lose The amazing truth story of

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Speaker 1: the New York Mets, the best worst team in sports,

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Speaker 1: true words never spoken, Devin, So great to have you

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Speaker 1: with us. We have been admiring the book. There was

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Speaker 1: a great excerpt in Business Week magazine, So even before

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Speaker 1: we started recording, we were catching up with you and

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Speaker 1: just so excited to have you with us. First of all,

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Speaker 1: congrats on the book. It's it's terrific. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: That's that's really really kind to do. So how do you,

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Speaker 1: as a fan make the leap? Obviously you're a journalist,

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Speaker 1: but it's like getting to the point where you think,

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Speaker 1: all right, there's a book here, how do you even

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Speaker 1: go about attacking this franchise from a story to telling perspective? Well,

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Speaker 1: I kind of almost sort of backed into it a

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Speaker 1: little bit because the book started out um as an

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Speaker 1: article in the New York Times magazine about Gary Keith

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Speaker 1: and Ron, which is our broadcast booth. But the one

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Speaker 1: year in and year out awesome thing that Mets bands have,

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Speaker 1: and we were in the midst of pretty awful start,

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Speaker 1: as we always are um and having the best booth

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Speaker 1: covering the worst team seemed like a funny contrast and

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Speaker 1: that that article did pretty well, I guessed, and I

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Speaker 1: got asked by an editor if I wanted to write

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Speaker 1: a book, which I didn't because books are wrong. And

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Speaker 1: then gradually I realized what he was asking was, is

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Speaker 1: there a way to turn the article into a book.

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Speaker 1: And it just seemed like the subtext of the article

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Speaker 1: was this, this genetic messiness that we've had all through

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Speaker 1: our history and that we were actually born with with

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Speaker 1: Casey stengelness is so what if you told the history

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Speaker 1: of the team that was through the prism of losing

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Speaker 1: and our gift at losing, because that actually seems like

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Speaker 1: what's special about us. I hate when people say them

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Speaker 1: that's are a bad team. We're not. We're gifted at losing.

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Speaker 1: It's a very big difference. And I wanted to write

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Speaker 1: a book about that until the history of our teams

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Speaker 1: through that kind of prism, because it would include losses

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Speaker 1: like you know in Game seven of the Nationally Championship Series.

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Speaker 1: Most teams don't have losses like that, and so that

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Speaker 1: seemed like an interesting way to look at a book. Well,

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Speaker 1: I have to ask you about the nineteen six World Series. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's where you became a yeah, from Boston has

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Speaker 1: because you know, funny thing, I'm actually in Boston right now.

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Speaker 1: I live in Boston. Um, technically brook Line, but I

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Speaker 1: can but I can spit, you know. I can almost

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Speaker 1: spit on Benway Park from here, um and so. And

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Speaker 1: I wrote most of the book in Boston, which I

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Speaker 1: thought was kind of subversive. Um. But the point being,

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Speaker 1: I've I've been you know, I've been seeing a lot

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Speaker 1: of people around my street who know I wrote a

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Speaker 1: mess book, and I keep saying to them and if

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Speaker 1: they get it, and I don't worry. I get the

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Speaker 1: mean stuff about Boston out of the way in the prologue.

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Speaker 1: So if you're a Boston fan and you skip the prologue,

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Speaker 1: you'll love the book. If you read the prologue, there's

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Speaker 1: a real chance you're going to come after me. There

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Speaker 1: we go that there it is. I mean, how can

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Speaker 1: you hate team like that? I woke up, I have

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Speaker 1: to say, Devin. I woke up sort of with this

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Speaker 1: song in my head, knowing that I was gonna that

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking to you, So Lynchy, I gotta

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Speaker 1: you gotta come in with an eighty six question here.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's painful, but you know, just

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Speaker 1: just exercise those demons. I'll be nice. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know you're writing a book about your lamenting, like

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Speaker 1: you know all this throught we had and how things

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Speaker 1: have gone wrong. You won a World Serious in your

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Speaker 1: what seventh year in existence? I mean, try waiting eighty

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Speaker 1: six years for a World Series championship? And do you

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Speaker 1: think you have so many ways to lose? I'll give

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Speaker 1: you Bill Buckner. I'll give you Johnny chest in n six.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you a Johnny Bench in nineteen seventy five.

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Speaker 1: On and on and on it goes. I love the book, Devin,

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Speaker 1: and I just need to ask, are we having this

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Speaker 1: conversation in two thousand three? How did we do this?

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Speaker 1: Because I seem to it's it's it's almost as if

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Speaker 1: we're having this conversation in the universe in which you

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Speaker 1: haven't won four World Series? You sure did. When do

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Speaker 1: I get to make up for lost time? I literally

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Speaker 1: I want a World Series. Got to experience the joy

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Speaker 1: of winning a World Series when I was ten years old,

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Speaker 1: and so when something like that happens when you're ten,

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Speaker 1: you think this is great. This is going to happen

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Speaker 1: all the time. I love feeling this way and forty

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Speaker 1: four now, I'm forty four now, and it has not

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Speaker 1: happened since I had to go like root for entirely

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Speaker 1: different franchises and entirely different sports in order to savor

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Speaker 1: a thrill of winning. And I was stupid enough to

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Speaker 1: pick the Jets. So here I am. You know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's and you know, it's it's a it's it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a difficult thing to be stuck with that big

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Speaker 1: a drought, but it does pay off in the long term,

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Speaker 1: I think, because I can there's so many enjoyable stories

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Speaker 1: I can go back and tell, and the flavor of

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Speaker 1: them and the humor of them gets better. And every

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Speaker 1: time I think of, like, you know, the Yankees reminiscing

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Speaker 1: about it, it's like trying to get goose bumps to

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Speaker 1: go up as high as they always do, and they

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Speaker 1: never do, right. So, you know, the Mets had one

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Speaker 1: of the most entertaining seasons I've ever experienced in and

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Speaker 1: I think they finished in third place, and I think

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Speaker 1: the record was like eight three and seventy nine. But

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Speaker 1: it was so much fun. Pete Alonso was hitting home

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Speaker 1: runs all over the place, Jacob deGrom was turning into

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Speaker 1: Tom Fever. We were blowing games coming back. It was

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Speaker 1: baseball and it was so much fun. And I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine many franchises, in many fan bases being able to

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Speaker 1: enjoy a season like we enjoyed that season. And you know,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a special kind of care. After that,

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Speaker 1: the Mets have um, and you know, it was fun

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Speaker 1: to write about that. You know, it's not it's much

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Speaker 1: fun to write about winning. So, Devin, I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: alluding to a really interesting point or something that I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about as as I was reading through the book,

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Speaker 1: which which is this notion that we have very clear

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Speaker 1: evidence of late thanks to a certain richest owner in

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Speaker 1: the major leagues, that despite a history of losing. Sorry, uh,

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Speaker 1: this is a very valuable franchise. Part of it is

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Speaker 1: New York, but part of it is the fan base.

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Speaker 1: Part of it is TV like tell us about sort

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Speaker 1: of how this still manages to be a very very

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Speaker 1: valuable asset it and one that you know ended up

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Speaker 1: in arguably one of the more entertaining and star studded

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Speaker 1: bidding wars we've seen when it when it turned over

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Speaker 1: just recently to Stevie Cohen. Yeah, I mean, you're you're

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Speaker 1: hitting on an interesting point. And it's one of the

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Speaker 1: things that um I like to do in the book

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Speaker 1: is just in general and telling stories, is to try

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Speaker 1: to complicate a case, not take the counterintuitive or argue.

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Speaker 1: For instance, in this case, will Pons were actually you know,

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Speaker 1: geniuses and great owners because they weren't. They are what

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Speaker 1: we think they were. But the telling of it gets richer,

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Speaker 1: which is Fred Wilpon in the late seventies was one

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Speaker 1: of the few people in New York City who was like,

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Speaker 1: there's one National League Baseball team in New York City

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Speaker 1: right now, and in fifty years, there's only going to

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Speaker 1: be one National League Baseball team in New York City.

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Speaker 1: That's really valuable. And anybody in New York City at

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Speaker 1: that time who had money could have had this insight.

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Speaker 1: But he had it, and they bought the team for

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Speaker 1: its one million dollars, and of that twenty one million

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Speaker 1: dollars he managed to become the controlling partner of the

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Speaker 1: team despite putting in only three hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars of his own money. Starting to think Fred Wilpon

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Speaker 1: might have been onto something right. And and so when

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Speaker 1: we tell these histories, his insight that this would be

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Speaker 1: a hugely valuable thing, surely even more valuable than he

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Speaker 1: probably ever reckoned echoes into. Right now, there's only one

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Speaker 1: National League Baseball team in New York City. It is

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Speaker 1: a very valuable thing, and it will be a very

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Speaker 1: valuable thing for fifty years, for as long as we

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Speaker 1: play baseball. And but on the flip side, the idea

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Speaker 1: that that the Billions that Stephen Cohen represents is going

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Speaker 1: to come to our rescue and turn us from the

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Speaker 1: Mets into the Yankees, that's just an adorable thought. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's just adorable. You know, Like, no way have you

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Speaker 1: been paying attention this whole spring training? I mean, come on, well,

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Speaker 1: I see I'm a Tigers fan. By the way, I'm

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Speaker 1: listening to both of you. All you guys is like,

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Speaker 1: whoa we ever won? That we haven't looked. The last

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Speaker 1: time we won the World Series was four you guys

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Speaker 1: wanted after we did, and you guys look great. And

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Speaker 1: I think this book you can relate it to any

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Speaker 1: team that's great at losing a lot of Tigers and

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Speaker 1: this book carries over in so many ways That's one

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Speaker 1: reason why I liked this book. It's it's you know,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about like under non COVID terms, Um, we

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Speaker 1: talked about on non COVID terms, UM, like going on

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Speaker 1: like a loser's tour or something like that, to like

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Speaker 1: the cities that you know can identify with us, your Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: your Detroits. You know, certain teams in Chicago, the entire

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Speaker 1: state of Minnesota. By the way, what is it with

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Speaker 1: the Upper Midwest and stinking it's amazing how much? Anyway? Um?

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Speaker 1: But like you know, there are the Clippers fans if

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Speaker 1: you can find them. Like, there's so many teams that

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Speaker 1: have this kind of spirit, and like, you know, this

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Speaker 1: book could have easily been about the Cleveland Browns. We

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Speaker 1: all know that, right, And you know there's franchises like

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Speaker 1: that that just have this sort of leaguered but affectionate

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Speaker 1: And the affection is the really big part of it, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: component to their existence that stands for them much more

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Speaker 1: than winning does. All Right, So let me ask you

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Speaker 1: how did you come up with the title for this book?

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Speaker 1: Because it is the longest title I think in the

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Speaker 1: history of publication. It's a great title, But how did

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Speaker 1: you come up with it. Well, you know, you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to have like these long subtitles I always see in

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Speaker 1: these non fiction books, um, and I actually just wanted

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Speaker 1: it to be the amazing true story of the best

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Speaker 1: worst team in sports. And then they were like, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you never said Mets a good point, so make

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Speaker 1: it longer. But so many ways to lose is a

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Speaker 1: paracrase of the Casey Stengle quote. Um. You know, Casey

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Speaker 1: is often called the original met um. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that became obvious to me, and one of

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Speaker 1: the sort of the inspiring notions of the book, was

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Speaker 1: why do we talk this way about our team? Why

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Speaker 1: are we this way? And it really is coded into

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Speaker 1: the DNA, Like if you contrast the Yankees and the Mets.

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Speaker 1: The Yankees are a pro sports branchise that was built

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Speaker 1: to win titles and pack seats and make money, and

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Speaker 1: so that ethos still echoes today. The Mets were a

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Speaker 1: team that was born knowing they were going to be

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Speaker 1: truly awful, probably for a couple of years, and that

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Speaker 1: that would become corrosive if it wasn't lighthearted and entertaining,

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Speaker 1: and so the team was built to be fun and

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Speaker 1: so of course that's sort of our spirit now. And

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Speaker 1: that was interesting to me, right, that that these that

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Speaker 1: these that the d NA for a sports franchise can

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Speaker 1: can connect go like that. And so, you know, Devin,

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Speaker 1: one of the elements of this that's of course fascinating

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Speaker 1: to us given the bloomberginess of of this show is

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Speaker 1: the whole made Off saga and the made Off connection

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Speaker 1: and how that affects the economics of the team, how

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Speaker 1: it affects the owners. You know, you talked earlier in

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Speaker 1: the conversation about you know, Fred Wilpon being smarter than

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Speaker 1: the average bear, way smarter than the average bear in

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Speaker 1: his assessment when he bought the team. Obviously a massive

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Speaker 1: error in judgment to say the least to associate him

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Speaker 1: and his family um with the Madeoffs. But but what

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Speaker 1: does that do and how does that affect the more

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Speaker 1: recent history? Because it does. It obviously has an effect

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Speaker 1: on the sale of the team, the running of the team,

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Speaker 1: the reputation of the family. Help us understand that it's

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Speaker 1: so many ups and downs, right, I mean, you're talking

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Speaker 1: about the Wilpons pre made Off are riding high, right,

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Speaker 1: they are at the peak of their um Rain as owners.

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Speaker 1: They came up, you know, just a strikeout short of

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Speaker 1: a World Series appearance in two thousand six. That was

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Speaker 1: I was sure that was going to World Series, which

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Speaker 1: is the only time I've ever felt that about the match.

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Speaker 1: That was. I still think that was one of our

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Speaker 1: best teams ever, and that would have been our you know,

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Speaker 1: second World Series trip in six or seven years. The

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Speaker 1: Wild Palms were objectively running a successful with a little

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Speaker 1: bit loopy franchise and then made off comes along and

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Speaker 1: the whole house of cards, balls and by Bobby benia Is,

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Speaker 1: who has been retired for a year and as a

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Speaker 1: cursed name in New York, um is now by virtue

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Speaker 1: of a sort of annuity Latin contract, the highest paid

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Speaker 1: outfielder in your on your roster, making one point to

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Speaker 1: million a year because the Wild Palms can barely afford

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Speaker 1: to feel the team. Then you also go from that

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Speaker 1: NAT year se a reloading of the team that brings

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Speaker 1: Matt Harvey and Jacob deGrom, a synder guard Michael Conforto,

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Speaker 1: and three or four years later, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: like the sixty two team rising from nowhere to win

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Speaker 1: a World Series. In sixty nine, the Mets are out

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Speaker 1: of nowhere back in the World series in so this

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, phoenix turning to ashes and then

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Speaker 1: rising from the ashes and turning into a phoenix like

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Speaker 1: you know it's and then lighting itself on fire all

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Speaker 1: over again. That's the mess. That's what we do. And

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Speaker 1: I I guess I see, you know, the made off

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Speaker 1: Nader then going swinging back up to the heights of

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Speaker 1: although what what what that financial sort of generation did

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Speaker 1: was was weak in the Wilpon family to the point

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Speaker 1: where I think a lot of them started to be like,

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Speaker 1: let's get out of this. This is crazy. We don't

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Speaker 1: like how Jeff runs this team. We've got to get

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Speaker 1: out of here before he cost us from their billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: And now we have Steve Cohen, and this is another cycle.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a high but if it is just

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Speaker 1: you wait, you know, like that's this is what we do.

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Speaker 1: And sort of seeing Steve Cohen rather as not a

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Speaker 1: sort of we're slamming one door of an ear and

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Speaker 1: opening another, but rather as sort of part of a

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Speaker 1: sign wave. I think it's probably the safe way for

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Speaker 1: Mets fans to look at this. Where do you see

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Speaker 1: the strength of business in general, not just for the Mets,

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Speaker 1: but for Major League Baseball. Yes, obviously back at all

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Speaker 1: the sports, but what where do you see the impact

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Speaker 1: going for? You know, major League Baseball is in an

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Speaker 1: interesting spot because while I don't know a ton about

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Speaker 1: the finances, I'm always hearing that it's actually way more

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Speaker 1: financially successful than you would guess based upon the sort

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Speaker 1: of public exposure and attention to the game right now,

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Speaker 1: right I think it's a real problem. I think the

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Speaker 1: game is in in in a real problem state in

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Speaker 1: its public affection and awareness. I don't think that there

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Speaker 1: are really any recognizable Major League Baseball stars right now.

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe I'm for maybe Aaron Judge, I don't know, um,

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Speaker 1: maybe Lucy Betts. I kind of doubt it. And I

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Speaker 1: know from my own experience that baseball, even for me

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Speaker 1: as someone who loves baseball, is kind of regional sport.

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Speaker 1: I follow my team extremely closely, and I don't really

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Speaker 1: follow anyone else. So when teams come in to play

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Speaker 1: the Mets, unless they're in my division, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this guy, you know. And that's very different from how

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Speaker 1: I consume the NBA, which I'm a big fan of,

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Speaker 1: and every night. I look at the schedule and I

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Speaker 1: go look for the game that I think is going

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Speaker 1: to be the most fun, and I go to lead

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Speaker 1: pass and I watch it. I don't do that for baseball.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm unusual in that regard, but I do get

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Speaker 1: the sense that people watch it regionally, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think that's such a good thing for the sport, even

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Speaker 1: if they're finding other ways to make money. It feels

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Speaker 1: like depreciating currency. What they're drawing on. Is that at

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Speaker 1: all correct? I just use the business term. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea what it means. Sorry, it's actually a really

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Speaker 1: interesting insight because I think we're constantly I think we

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Speaker 1: all kind of take for granted at this point, And Lynchie,

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Speaker 1: I would be interested in your perspective on this, like

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Speaker 1: we take advantage or we we take for granted at

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Speaker 1: this point, Like the NBA has figured something out that

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Speaker 1: other people haven't. Like that that's sort of the given

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Speaker 1: one of the givings that we operate on. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's an interesting frame, this notion that it's that

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Speaker 1: baseball is more regional. What do you think, Lengie? I agree, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was the last sport really to have

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Speaker 1: a national we could watch a team from Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: Have lived on the East Coast and the National Football

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Speaker 1: League every Sunday you can see the Green Bay Packers,

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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys, the Rams, the Giants, the Jets, the Dolphins,

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Speaker 1: no matter where you live. Um, and I agree, And

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Speaker 1: I think it goes back for you know, generations. You know,

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Speaker 1: you remember it's a romantic game. You remember the first

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Speaker 1: time you walked I walked into Fenway Park with my

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Speaker 1: dad and the first thing I saw is, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe how green this place is, the grass in the wall,

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Speaker 1: and I don't have that feeling when I walked into

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Speaker 1: Boston Garden. I'll remember is the sticky floor and the

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Speaker 1: smell of stale beer and um, the Foxboro I just

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Speaker 1: remember sitting in traffic on one all day long. So

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Speaker 1: that it has to do with the uh. I think

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Speaker 1: that you know, the the romanticism of the game and

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Speaker 1: how it's that's the one sport that's been passed on

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Speaker 1: generation to generation and you're and the team that your

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Speaker 1: grandfather and your father and your uncle rooted for has

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Speaker 1: passed down to you. Yeah, and I you know there

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Speaker 1: are some things about it that are not necessarily bad.

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Speaker 1: There is something really nice and romantic about being that

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Speaker 1: invested in your home team. And it's fine because other

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Speaker 1: sports are another way. That's fine. The NBA is not

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Speaker 1: that way. And you know, football has kind of gone

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Speaker 1: almost in a flip where you know, like you're saying,

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Speaker 1: you would have your home game and then you'd have

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Speaker 1: a national game, and it was always the same teams, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Bucks were never on the national game. UM.

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Speaker 1: But now the NFL, we all watch everything, right, you

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Speaker 1: either going to a bar or you're watching Red Zone, um,

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Speaker 1: and you watch every game. Um. In fact, I think

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Speaker 1: I saw some data from Axios this morning that was

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Speaker 1: really interesting. It said something about how, um, NFL fans,

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Speaker 1: you know, really do watch all the games for the

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Speaker 1: most part, whereas MLB fans and NBA fans enjoy highlights

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Speaker 1: more than the actual game. And I think that's definitely

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Speaker 1: a problem both to the NBA, which is always known

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Speaker 1: it's had this problem, and mL BE, I think, which

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Speaker 1: is discovering that it's having this problem. Um. And that's

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Speaker 1: a real issue because I think the regionalism is partly

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Speaker 1: a sign that if it's not my team, I'm not

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Speaker 1: really enjoying this right and that has some lessons I

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Speaker 1: think for baseball. And you know, I'm also interested to

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Speaker 1: hear when you guys think about these sort of the

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Speaker 1: ways that changing changing the rules to try to create

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Speaker 1: more action on the field. I really do think as

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Speaker 1: a business imperative for the sport. And I'm interested to see,

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Speaker 1: you know, what you guys think of Do you think

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Speaker 1: what they're going to be, what they're actually doing, is

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Speaker 1: nibbling around the edges or is it gonna work? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll take it. I mean, I think it could work.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't seem quite to be honest, radical enough for me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, we've we've talked about this

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Speaker 1: a lot on our show, and you know, we've talked

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Speaker 1: to Trevor Bauer about it. We talked to others, um

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Speaker 1: you know, in and around Major League Baseball, you know.

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Speaker 1: And part of the issue is I see this through

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Speaker 1: the lens of my two teenage sons eighteen and sixteen,

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Speaker 1: who just don't give a wit about baseball, Like they'll

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Speaker 1: go to a game, you know. I took it to

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Speaker 1: Dodger Stadium when we were in l A a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago, and they thought that was cool, but

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Speaker 1: they couldn't name a player. You know, we'll go to

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Speaker 1: a Yankee game or a met game every now and again,

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Speaker 1: but there, you know they are. They are not that interested,

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Speaker 1: and we need to find ways to to get another

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Speaker 1: generation interested. It feels like it feels marginal to me.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what you think, Michael barr Well. I

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Speaker 1: think and I'm speaking just as an old school fan,

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Speaker 1: especially a baseball The biggest thing that got me hooked

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Speaker 1: on not just the Tigers, but all the players in

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Speaker 1: the league. We're tops baseball cards because I got the

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Speaker 1: set and I could see all the players. I knew

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Speaker 1: ed Cranpool, you know, I knew all these players, is

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Speaker 1: like I'm seeing their stats. I can. That got me

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Speaker 1: into the entire league. So I was waiting hopefully, you know,

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Speaker 1: when Mel Allen would give me Baseball this week. That

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Speaker 1: that was must see TV. I love that show. I

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Speaker 1: love that show. Um, well, you know you made a

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Speaker 1: guestorry and I'm going to jump in. But that's a

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Speaker 1: really interesting point because I imagine you guys have been following,

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Speaker 1: if not talked about, you know, top shot. Yes, the

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Speaker 1: NFT boom, and it definitely does seem like the that's

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Speaker 1: sort of affection that's beyond the game, where you're cultivating

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Speaker 1: the culture around it disappeared from baseball. Baseball cards were

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Speaker 1: a big part of that, maybe more than we even realized,

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Speaker 1: and that kind of collectible universe really feels like it's

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Speaker 1: catching fire again. And maybe that maybe that becomes the

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Speaker 1: way that I'm learning about some you know, Seattle Mariners

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Speaker 1: left fielder who's super cool because everybody's talking about his

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Speaker 1: top shot card or whatever, and those things matter, um,

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Speaker 1: And if you're cannibalizing your products with highlights to get

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Speaker 1: people in the game, you know, I think we're starting

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Speaker 1: to see the the inherent risks there, Devin. I have

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Speaker 1: some encouraging news here for sales of your book, which

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Speaker 1: probably should last a hundred and sixty two games. I'm

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Speaker 1: holding in my hands this most recent issue of Sports Illustrated,

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Speaker 1: and guess who was on the cover. Francisco Lindor and

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00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: it says, get happy Mets fans. Francisco Lindoor wants to

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00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: save the game one smile and home run at a time.

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00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: So this is guaranteeing that the jinx is on and

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00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: they're gonna finish out of the playoffs and sales. The

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00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: words right out of my mouth, with every word of

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Speaker 1: that deck. It's like my dread just kept you could

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Speaker 1: steal it, like rising from my neck to my mouth

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00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: and my nose and my eyes. You know, the thing

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Speaker 1: ending with the smile. Yeah, you know who smile? Everybody

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00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: talked about where he got the New York magnetic bows

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00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: and watch smile. We knocked that smile off his face

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Speaker 1: right quick, didn't we. So I keep saying, Francisco Lindoor,

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00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: just get out of here with your body intact. Just please,

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00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 1: just make sure you get out of here with your

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00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: body intact. Let's you know, go with God. But you

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00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 1: know God isn't here so well. Well, to extend the metaphor,

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00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: you knocked that smile off of Bobby Bonilla's face and

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00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 1: then paid a lot for the orthodontia going forward. But uh,

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00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: and I will say, you know, as we start to

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00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: wrap up here, highly highly recommend as a teaser go

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00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: to Business week dot com or pick up one of

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00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: the recent additions because it has a fantastic excerpt from

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00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: this book UH that goes deep into the Bonia deal

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00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: as it were, and talks about the economics of it.

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00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: Which are surprising bow in their scope but also in

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00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: in their impact and made a lot of things possible,

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00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: as you rightly point out. So before we let you go,

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00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: I gotta ask you, Devin, Steve Cohen, what what's your

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00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: read so far? You know, he was on Twitter, he

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00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: was engaging, then he was essentially chased off. He has

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00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: been making some moves, Like how do you assess him

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00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: so far? I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm it's an interesting divide

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00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: in that I'm I like a lot of the rationality.

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00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: It just seems like he makes thoughtful, careful, reasonable decisions

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00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: about what to do with the baseball team. And Max

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00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: Um a little weird for me. So I'm like, that's

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00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: really nice. Um. At the same time, I'm suspicious. I'm

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00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: suspicious of his background of UM, some of his some

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00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: of the early conduct the team. I'm not sure. I'm

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00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of matchup between the words and the behavior. UM.

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00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: The Trevor Bauer pursuit did not fill only with confidence,

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00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: even though it filled with me with the light for

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00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: the way it ended. UM, you know, it's it's I'm

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00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: glad we don't have him, but it is troubling to

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00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: me that we wanted them so badly. Um did in

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00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: his past. Um, and so those things I feel like

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00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm keeping a close eye on. Um. I'm not too

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00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 1: naive to think that, you know, every fan sort of

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00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: resigned themselves to some of the owners that they've got. Um,

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00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: but I'm not I'm not ready to throw any parades,

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00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. Did you did you have

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00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: a sense of dread when it looked like there was

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00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: even a shot at a rod owning the Mets. Oh

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00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: my god, that was you know, I had sort of

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00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: a mixed reaction which was both dread and horror and

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00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: then a slight, slight, slight silver lining. I thought of

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00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: what j was going to be at the game. That's okay,

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00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, like that's good. Um, but oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

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00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: I mean, look, she's that was you know, that was

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00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: going to be a nightmare. And you know, just being

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00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: trolled by Josey can shake over the rest of their lives.

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00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: Would have been enough, Like, would have been bad enough.

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Speaker 1: This is the bloomberg business of sports. Podcast. Man was

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00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: so glad to have you. You You made me laugh so hard, asked, yeah,

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00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: because as a Tigers fan, I don't smile. I'm Michael Barr.

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00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: You can follow me on Twitter at Big Bar Sports,

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00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: and I'm Mike Lynch, still flipping through my Sports Illustrated

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00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: with Francisco Lindor on the cover. You can follow me

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00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: at Lynch e W CVV and our thanks to Devin Gordon.

499
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: The book So Many Ways to Lose, the amazing true

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00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: story of the New York Mets, the best worst team

501
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: in sports. Pick it up wherever you get your books.

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00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: It is worth it. A great read, and not just

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00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: for Mets fans and not just for Mets haters out there. Uh,

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00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: it's really a story about baseball. It's really a story

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00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: about the modern sports era, ownership decisions, all of that.

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00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: So our congratulations and thanks to him. I'm Jason Kelly.

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00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jason Kelly News.

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00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: We're here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring

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00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: the world of money in sports. Join us again at

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00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: the end of the week. I still got March Madness

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00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: going on. So we're going to talk with Eric Newburger.

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00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: He is the Lucas Oil Stadium Director host of course

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00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: of the Final Four. The whole shebang is happening in Indianapolis.

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00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio

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00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: around the world and online wherever you get your podcasts,