1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier, 6 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage 10 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most 11 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for? 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out, sa 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: ays you. Guys know we've been closely following the scandal 14 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: involving Brett Favre stealing welfare funds for poor people in 15 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: the state of Mississippi in order to build his daughter 16 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: a five million dollars volleyball stadium. He also received over 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: million dollars in speaking fees for speeches he never gave. 18 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: He also a solicited investment to multiple millions of dollars 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: into a company that he was involved with. A lot 20 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: going on there. He denies any allegations of wrongdoing. I 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: had no idea where the money was coming from, et cetera, 22 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: et cetera. Okay, so he is not, in my opinion, 23 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: facing the legal accountability that he should probably be facing. 24 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: But the media is starting to pick up on this 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: and he is facing some sort of public backlash and 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: endorsement accountability. I guess in a sense, it's go ahead 27 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: and put this up on the screen. So Brett Farv's 28 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: Serious XM show has been put on hold following this 29 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: welfare fraud scandal, according to media. Serious XM confirmed the 30 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: Hollywood Reporter on Saturday that Farv's long running radio show, 31 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: The Serious XM Blitz with Brett Farvard Bruce Murray, is 32 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: going to be put on hold. The show premiered in 33 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. It featured him as a co host up 34 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: until two weeks ago. It aired every Tuesday. Also, a 35 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: local Milwaukee radio station announced it has suspended his weekly 36 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: Green Bay Packers recap program on the station. And it's 37 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: taken a little bit. So this scandal involving welfare five, 38 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: which isn't just about Brett Farve, It's about this lady 39 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: and her son and this nonprofit they ran, and it's 40 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: about the former governor and a potential coverer from the 41 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: current governor. And we're talking about literally tens of millions 42 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: of dollars stolen over years out of this welfare fund. 43 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: This has been unfolding for years at this point, and 44 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: it really is just now that the media is sort 45 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: of catching on to it and the story is gaining 46 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: any kind of real traction and understanding of just the 47 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: depths of depravity we're talking about here. So this is 48 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: the very first little bit of actual backlash that he 49 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: has faced over his actions with connection to the scandal. 50 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,839 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah, and look, I know it's complicated, 51 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: but at a very basic level, there were public funds 52 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: for poor people, mostly single moms in Mississippi, one of 53 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: the poor states, and he took a lot of money 54 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: from that fund. Now he claims you didn't know it 55 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 1: was from there. There's a lot of text messages which 56 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: say that he definitely did know and that he himself 57 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: put himself in legal jeopardy. There's a text message where 58 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: he specifically asks, how do we know that the media 59 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 1: can't find out what's going on here? So he knew 60 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: there was something untoward. Now he claims everything's out of context. 61 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: These text messages are being selectively revealed. He is welcome 62 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: to set the record straight anytime he wants, release all 63 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: of the text messages, release the transcript. The Mississippi governor 64 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: can also do the same thing. But as it stands 65 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: right now, it's a disgusting scandal. Again, I'll reiterate, he 66 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: is worth one hundred and ten million dollars. He could 67 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: have built that stadium ten times over, could done some 68 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: stupid commercial and could have paid for it himself. But 69 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: he let greed get to him, and he took public 70 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: money and now he's at the center of the storm. 71 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: So this is absolutely the quote unquote cancel culture that 72 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: I support that. Yes, yeah, yeah, canceling rich people was 73 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: still from poor people. I'm one hundred percent in favor 74 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: of that. The latest development and it just keeps getting worse. 75 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: Yesterday we talked about or whatever, I don't know what 76 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: DAVI this is airing, but whenever we talked about the 77 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: fact that he had suggested using prison slave labor to 78 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: build the daughter's volleyball stadium. Okay, the latest development is 79 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: that there are texts that were just revealed in a 80 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: legal filing which show he also tried to get welfare 81 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: money for an indoor football practice facility as well. So 82 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: it's just like the more you learn, the more you're 83 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: like Jesus Christ. I mean, I just can't imagine pay 84 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: for yourself. I just can't imagine understand. You know, I 85 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: think a lot of people I've noticed are transfixed by this, 86 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: and it's because, you know, he was a pretty beloved 87 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: figure in his time. Yeah, people were like, oh, he's 88 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: a nice guy, Like it seems like somebody really grounded. 89 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: Like it turns out he's just like all of them. 90 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: He's just like the rest, like absolute greedy scumbag. I 91 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: cannot imagine taking money that's intended for like poor single 92 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: moms to like, you know, make their life work and 93 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: feed their kids and pay the rent, keep the electric 94 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: bills on or whatever. And you're one hundred millionaire and 95 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: you're taking that money for your daughter. Yet do you 96 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: know how much money you even need to make to 97 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: a pretty basically in Mississippi. I don't know how the 98 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: exact numbers in front of it, but tanif in general 99 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: you barely you basically have peop below the poverty what 100 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: Mississippi is the is perhaps the stingiest state in the 101 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: nation with regards to welfare funds. I in that monologue 102 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: I did. I pulled one of the statistics. I think 103 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: it's something like, because I looked at it again yesterday. 104 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: In one year, there were twelve thousand people who applied 105 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: for the benefit and only like one hundred and sixty 106 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: five people got it. There are so many people who 107 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: don't even bother trying because the process is so dehumanizing 108 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: and the results so incredibly uncertain that it's basically like 109 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: cash support for poor people in Mississippi does not really exist. Now, 110 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: this is the legacy of Bill Clinton and the way 111 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: that they quote unquote ended welfare as they know it 112 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: and changed it from you know, like guaranteed funds for 113 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: a certain income threshold to these block grants that states 114 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: can do have a lot of leeway with what they do. Now, 115 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: what you cannot do is fund a volleyball stadium. Even 116 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,799 Speaker 1: though they're given a lot of leeway, there is specific 117 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: provisions actually in the law that says you can't fund 118 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: quote unquote brick and mortar facilities, so actual construction projects, 119 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: for example, a football practice facility, or a volleyball stadium, 120 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: so clear violations here. They knew that one of the 121 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: son of the nonprofit owner, who is already like pled 122 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: and is cooperating now one of the things he pled 123 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: guilty to is trying to structure this as a least 124 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: to get around that. So they knew what they were 125 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: doing was an attempt to circumnavigate the law. They knew 126 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: what the restrictions were, and they did it anyway. So anyway, 127 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: very latest, tiny, tiny measure of some kind of blowback 128 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: for Brett Favre, but far less than what he deserves 129 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: at this point. Absolutely right. Our friend Unusual Whales shared 130 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: this clip from a House Financial Services Committee meeting. That 131 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: is quite incredible, them yucking it up about the revolving 132 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: door and corruption between members of Congress and the industry 133 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: is they're supposed to regulate. Let's take a listen. The 134 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: gentleman from Indiana, mister Hollingsworth, is now recognized for five minutes. Well, 135 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: good afternoon, I'm excited to be here with each of you. 136 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: Before I get started on my questions, mister moynihan, I 137 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: wanted to let you know, sir RUTHI raise your hands ruthing. 138 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: She has been my team member for a couple of 139 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: years now, but on Monday she becomes a Bank of 140 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: America team member, about which she is very very excited. 141 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: So I hope you'll take good care of her and 142 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: know and recognize the talent that she has shown already 143 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: in our office. I'm sure she'll do the same at 144 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: Bank of America. We will do that, and her father 145 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: already works for so he'll take care of it. You 146 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: should have told us, good well. I appreciate the opportunity 147 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: to chat about some of these issues today. What I'm 148 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: really interested in is the state of the economy. So 149 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: the voice you heard there was representatory Hollingsworth. They're doing this, 150 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: you know, supposed inquiry of all the top executives at 151 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: a variety of banks, and oh, they just think it's 152 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: so charming and funny that a staffer from his office 153 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: is going over to work there. I know, this isn't 154 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: the first time that we've had people in your circle 155 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: company Also, yeah, it's like what yeah, I mean, the 156 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: thing that really got me about this clip is that 157 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: they consider this so standard and affable and so unremarkable 158 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: in DC that they're totally unself aware about the fact 159 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: that they're like just laughing about total disgusting, brazen corruption 160 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: of the fact that would be absolutely grotesque to anyone 161 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: out there in the country watching, Like they don't even 162 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: understand that this is a problem because it's just the 163 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: sea that they swim in. Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, 164 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: looking into her background, who it's very annoying. Also, it's 165 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: just shritty. It's actually not that hard to pronounce. You 166 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: didn't even say it properly, but it's a very classic 167 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: Washington resume. Has no actual prior service in the financial sector. 168 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: Her dad happens to work for Bank of America a 169 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: long time you know, started off career as an intern 170 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: in Tim Scott's office, worked on Capitol Hill all the 171 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: way up up to LA Legislative assistant Financial Services. Now 172 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: going over to work for Bank of America. Like extremely 173 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: standard Washington resume, And that's the problem. That's exactly the 174 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: issue that we have. So this guy, I mean, he's 175 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: not even that high ranking on the find but it's 176 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: like this is the level of you know, you get 177 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: paid a couple hundred grand, your dad works over there. Now, 178 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: are you really going to push for some sort of legislation. 179 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: I mean, is that the direct cost. Maybe not, but 180 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: like if you can't ever consider that it doesn't have 181 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: some impact. And then you take that times ten thousand 182 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: in terms of the city of Washington. Yeah, and you 183 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: have our current unfortation, and it's across it's banking, it's pharmaceuticals, 184 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: it's defense, industrial comp I mean, it's everything. That you 185 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: have this total revolving door where people feel like they 186 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: put in their time in quote unquote public service and 187 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: now that they're entitled to go better themselves, as Crenshaw 188 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: might put it in the public sector and cash in. 189 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: And so when they're sitting there in these positions as 190 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: legislative assistant or whatever, you know, level they attained and 191 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: they have their eye on what that next career is 192 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: going to be, how hard do you think they're going 193 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: to be on their potential future bosses? You know, how 194 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: hard do you think they're really going to go when 195 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: they know that their pot of gold at the end 196 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: of the rainbow is over there at Bank of America. 197 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: Ask yourself that, and it explains a lot of the 198 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, toothless supposed oversight we get from members of Congress. 199 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: Absolutely right, an interesting thing happened over Advice News. They 200 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: did a whole documentary about rehabilitated sex offenders, making the 201 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: case that the laws are too strict against them, about 202 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: how they can successfully reintegrate into society, and unfortunately for them, 203 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: one of the subjects, the subjects that they chose to 204 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: sympathetically portray, had a real twist at the end of THEIRS, 205 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: I won't give it away. Let's take a lesson. We 206 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: all lie in is world and we all got to 207 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: make it happen, and they nuns stopped me. So, like 208 00:10:54,480 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: I'm very old confident this interview, A chief sent a 209 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: picture of his penis to our producer. So I'm not 210 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: laughing as hard because I've probably watched it over one 211 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: hundred times, maybe like two undertime. I can't the cut 212 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: of just like that straight. It is pure perfect timing. 213 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: And now apparently was so mister a Sheef is in 214 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: trouble because what he did there, unsolicited dick pic is 215 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: actually illegal in the city of Chicago. I was wondering 216 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: about that. Actually I support that law. I was going 217 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: to say, I feel like it should be because if 218 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: you are like a flasher. No, that's what they call it. 219 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: Cyber flashing. It's actually illegal in the city. It's the 220 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: same thing, So I actually support that. But yeah, I 221 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: mean talk about like I didn't watch the whole documentaries, 222 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: so I don't know the ins and outs of how 223 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: they're portraying things or whatever. But if you were trying 224 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: to have a sympathetic portrait of this individual, which they 225 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: seem to want to do, whole thing, just infinitly clear 226 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: about who this dude is. He served six years in 227 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: prison forcing oral sex on a woman and penetrating her 228 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: when she was fifteen years old. Like, I just want 229 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: to be one hundred percent clear's about who this guy is. 230 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: He claims he was wrongly convicted. Okay, just saying that's 231 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: who this person is. So you know, if you're going 232 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: to start with criminal justice perform, you can't you can't 233 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: resist like he says he claimed. His lawyer says he 234 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: sent it by mistake. Okay, well who you were? They 235 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: over age, I would hope. So, I don't know. I 236 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: find with a lot of these criminals justice reform types, 237 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, why don't you just focus on like weed 238 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: and like other victims crimes, like you don't actually like 239 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: some people are actually very bad and we have I mean, 240 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: sex Defenders is a tough is a really tough one. 241 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: It's not tough at all. People who are like I 242 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: mean something like that. These six years, you're a lot 243 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: more sympathetic sympathetic case. I mean, obviously, I think we 244 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: have an insane mass incarceration system, et cetera, et cetera. 245 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: But this was maybe not the individual to try to 246 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: rehab with your Puffic's right, so I could not go 247 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: over it. I really have nothing to say about it 248 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: other than it was hilarious, and so we had to 249 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: show It's like the Southwest that we showed you all 250 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: last week. Every once in a while we got to 251 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: change it up and put some positive round the channel. 252 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: We got a new little piece of information about the 253 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: ever unfolding scandal involving Brent Farv who now stands accused 254 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: of siphoning five million dollars out of State of Mississippi 255 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: welfare funds in order to build a volleyball stadium for 256 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 1: his daughter at a university there. This is from The 257 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: Daily Beast. Let's go ahead and put this up on 258 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: the screen. Apparently this is not the first time he 259 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: has built some volleyball facility for his daughter using questionable funds. 260 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: Here's the headline. Here, Brett Farvre's charity for needy kids 261 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: gave sixty thousand dollars to another volleyball gym. Here's that work. Hey, 262 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: here's the Yeah, well it's not. Okay, that's how it works. 263 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: Here's the details. They say the brewing outrage over farv 264 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: is perhaps no surprise to some residents of Hattiesburg, who 265 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: helped erect another far of passion project, a one point 266 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: four million dollar volleyball facility for the high school that 267 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: his daughter was attending, which, first of all, insane, one 268 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: point four million dollars for a freaking volleyball facility at 269 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: a high school. Okay, corrupt this guy, just seriously seriously. 270 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: So he was trying to raise the money for it, 271 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: and then he had this. He had his foundation or whatever, 272 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: which a lot of these athletes will have foundations, basically 273 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: like to get out of taxis essentially is what these 274 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: charities are for. And they say that he directed the charity, 275 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: which again is supposed to be money for needy kids, 276 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: to donate sixty thousand dollars to the booster club for 277 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: this volleyball stadium. Situation, and then on top of all 278 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: of that, he hired this guy who was supposedly a 279 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: friend of his to do the build and then left 280 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: the guy high and dry with I think it was 281 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: like hundreds of thousands of dollars in unpaid fees that 282 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: this guy you know who built the stadium was supposed 283 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: to get and was like renigged on. So the whole 284 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: thing is just insane. I guess if we're going to 285 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: keep going back, like was there a middle school volleyball stadium? 286 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: Was there an elementary school volleyball stadium? What is that 287 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: preschool that your daughter? What? What kind of a volleyball 288 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: stadium do they have too? It's just absolutely insane and 289 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: shows that clearly the shady behavior was not constrained to 290 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: just the welfare fund situation completely. Yeah, I mean, I 291 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: think there's a pattern obviously here. But what I think 292 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: what drives me nuts some sort of federal prosecutor, like 293 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: somebody take notice, for God's sake. Can a state's attorney 294 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: or someone in Mississippi? I get it. You know, he 295 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: was a great football player like a long time ago. Well, 296 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: now he's just another rich one hundred and ten millionaire 297 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: who's abusing the tax system and his connections and his 298 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: own celebrity to violate allegedly charity law like nonprofit law, 299 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: misuse of funds, and builk with the one of the 300 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: nation's poorest states their welfare fund for single mom. I 301 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: can't imagine a more depraved crime. Wasn't he another one 302 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: who got caught sending like unsolicited dick pics situation? Actually, yeah, 303 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. Yeah, pretty sure. There's a lot. There's 304 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: a lot going Look at the headline. Uh, yeah, you're 305 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: right there it is. Did he did he admit to it? 306 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: NFL's probe into nudes to a Jets hostess to minifies 307 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: the publicity of a star. There's something there. I'm not 308 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: going to go ahead and comment on the entire thing, 309 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: but you can do your own research and dig into 310 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: that part. But the welfare funds part, Yeah, welfare fund's part. 311 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: We've had a real uh, we've really dug into that 312 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: one here, and that one, I can tell you it 313 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: looks horrible because it wasn't just the volleyball steam. It 314 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: was also over a million dollars for speeches he never gave. 315 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: It was millions of dollars directed into a company that 316 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: he was like the lead outside investor in just absolute insanity. 317 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: And he's already been caught in lies. By the way, 318 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: I think this is something I haven't mentioned before, which 319 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: is that he had claimed he never spoke to the 320 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: former governor about this volleyball steam is provably patently false 321 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: at this point, based on text messages that have been 322 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: revealed in multiple legal filings. So caught in a mass 323 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: of y claims. Yeah, I had no idea where are 324 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: these funds were coming from? Okay, but yeah, apparently there 325 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: was a high school stadium as well that he used, 326 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, funds that were supposed to go to needy 327 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: kids to help build. So there you go, absolutely right. 328 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, this is kend Clip and Sign with Breaking 329 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: Points Intercept Edition. I'm joined today by Professor J. W. 330 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: Mason and economics professor at the City University of New York. 331 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: I'm going to be talking to you about what the 332 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 1: FED is forecast as a forthcoming recession, what the stakes 333 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: are for labor unions and for ordinary people that have 334 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: to live off of their weekly wages, such as myself. 335 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: It's really scary to see that the FED is just 336 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: accepted that there's going to be an increased in unemployment, 337 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: and indeed is engineering that as part of their plan 338 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: to bring down inflation. And I'm having the professor on 339 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: to talk about what exactly that means that trade off, 340 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: because you're only really hearing about the inflation have there's 341 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: not a lot of willingness to speak candidly about the 342 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: effect on employment, the labor market and what that could 343 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: mean for organized labor. Professor, Well, you know, as you say, 344 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: everybody is sort of obsessed with inflation right now, and 345 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: the FED certainly is talking about nothing but inflation. But 346 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of other stuff going on in the 347 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: world besides inflation. It's not the only thing happening right now. 348 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: And one of the other things very important that's happening 349 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: is in the labor market, where we are seeing a 350 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 1: labor market in many ways is more favorable to workers 351 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: than we've probably seen in our lifetimes. You know, if 352 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: you are perhaps a young person or you know any 353 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: young people coming out of college going into the labor 354 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: market for the first time and looking for a job, 355 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's a very different experience than for most 356 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: of us historically. It's much much easier to find a 357 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: job right now, and that of course applies to people 358 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: who often have the hardest time finding work, young people, 359 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 1: people without college degrees, people who are disadvantaged in other ways. 360 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: But it also means for anybody, if you're not happy 361 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: with your job, you have a much better chance of 362 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: just saying, you know, I'm leaving, I'm going somewhere else. 363 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: There's other people who will, you know, treat me better 364 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: for my work. And if you're an employer, you can't 365 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: just you know, say I don't care, I'll replace you tomorrow, 366 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: I'll fire you if you don't do what I say. 367 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: And you know, it's it's there's a lot of things 368 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: that happen as a result of that. You know, we're 369 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: seeing a growth of the union movement that we haven't 370 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: seen in a a long time, or at least some successes 371 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: in organizing, and you know, companies like Amazon and retailers 372 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: and food service, you know, fast food restaurants. You know, 373 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: if you go back to the forties and fifties, there 374 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: were a lot of union jobs in retail and food service, 375 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 1: but in most of our lifetimes, the labor movement has 376 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 1: never made any headway there. And the fact that's happening 377 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: now there's a lot of reasons for that, but one 378 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: reason is certainly this this very tight labor market. And 379 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, that's obviously good news if you're somebody who 380 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: you know works for a living or you're on the 381 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: side of workers, but it's also it's also has a 382 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: lot of economic significance because it means that businesses, you know, 383 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: that can be more productive, that can get more value 384 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: out of an hour's where it can afford to pay 385 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: more for it, and they can pay more and they 386 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: can attract more workers and businesses maybe that we're able 387 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: to survive in an environment of very cheap and abundant labor. 388 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: And so they didn't pay much, they didn't produce much, 389 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: but it was okay because they had lots of cheap labor. 390 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: Those businesses can't necessarily succeed in the kind of labor 391 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: market that we're seeing today, and that's actually, you know, 392 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: it's obviously you're mad about it if you're one of 393 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: those employers who always took it for granted you could 394 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: you could get all the cheap workers you wanted, and 395 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: they'd do whatever you told them to because they were 396 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: scared of losing that job. So if that's you you're 397 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: you're probably pretty mad right now. But for the economy 398 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: as a whole, that's a big way that progress happens, 399 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: you know, productivity grows. In part of course, we have 400 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: new you know, scientific discoveries. We're learning to make better 401 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: solar panels and windmills every day, and that's great, but 402 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: it also just happens when businesses that are more productive 403 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: displaced ones that are less productive. A business, you know, 404 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: that just depends on cheap labor to produce something that's 405 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,239 Speaker 1: not very valuable is not going to survive in an 406 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: environment where where labor becomes more expensive, it's harder to 407 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: hire people. And that's actually a very positive thing for 408 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: the economy as a whole. And I think, you know, 409 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: we also, you know, are finding, i think, on our 410 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: way to finding new ways to manage the workplace that 411 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: aren't so much based on fear and domination by the 412 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: boss and are more perhaps you know, give workers a 413 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: little more of a voice and in the long run, again, 414 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: I think that's really very very positive for all of us. 415 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: But that can only happen if we, you know, if 416 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: this tight labor market continues. And the danger now is 417 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: because we've got this sort of inflation monomania. We've got 418 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: this idea that nothing matters except whether this price index, 419 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, the CPI comes out two or four, six 420 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: or eight percent. Well, if you step back and you say, wait, 421 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: why is this so consequential? It might be hard to 422 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: actually figure out why. But we've somehow got ourselves convinced 423 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 1: that that is the only thing that matters, and we're 424 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: going to sacrifice everything else, including these really positive developments 425 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: on the altar of low inflation. Yeah, that's something that's 426 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: really puzzling to me, is not that we're talking about inflation. 427 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: Of course, the price of goods, you know, matters to 428 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: ordinary everyday people, but that we're divorcing that from the 429 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: labor contexts that you're describing from the wage context. You 430 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: have to compare any sort of inflation you're seeing with 431 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,880 Speaker 1: the extent which wages are improving. Isn't that the only 432 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: sensible way to look at what conditions are like for 433 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: an ordinary person. And they don't do that. It's just 434 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: looking at the crisis. But it's not. It's not even 435 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: just wages, because you can be better off. In other words, 436 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, people carry a lot of debt. Most Americans 437 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: have quite a bit of debt. You know, if your 438 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: wages go up and the prices of the stuff you 439 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: buy goes up, you might say, oh, you're no better off, 440 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: but you are better off because the amount that you 441 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,239 Speaker 1: owed didn't go up, and so you're actually you know, 442 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: that death is less burdensome to you. You know, the 443 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: relatively high increase in prices and wages both that we're 444 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: seeing today, certainly one silver lining that has is it 445 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: makes the debt that people are carrying less of a burden. 446 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: It's also the case, as I said, that you know, 447 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: with your work, your wages are very important, but it's 448 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: also important you know what kind of conditions you work under. 449 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: You know, the fact that people have the option of 450 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: working from home today, that's a big improvement for a 451 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: lot of people in their lives. We had all that 452 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: unpaid time of commuting back and forth and so on. 453 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: And the fact that people can actually, you know, boss 454 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: and say we want you back in the office. But 455 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: people can say, well, I don't really want to do that, 456 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: and and they you know, they can't really, they can't 457 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: really make it stick. And that's that's the function of 458 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: the tight labor markets. And that's the way that people 459 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: are better off even if it doesn't show up in 460 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: That's a really important point you touch on in your piece, 461 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: which is that you know, there's all of this discussion 462 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: is you know, what if the expectations of inflation become 463 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: fixed and people people expect inflate, that this is the 464 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: new reality. Now, I'm not saying that's not an important 465 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: part of the story, but that's only half of the story. 466 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 1: The other part of it is what if employers begin 467 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: to think that the tight labor market conditions so called, 468 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: are you know, the new reality. They might actually be 469 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: incent advice to try to retain employees. And that benefits 470 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: everyone because we just have a more sane working environment 471 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: that you know, people can want to stay at and 472 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: and you know, advance through, as opposed to the insane 473 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: churn and burn that we have in virtually every industry. Now, 474 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: can you talk about that a little bit? How that's 475 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: absolutely right? You know, it's this weird thing where we 476 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: talk about, oh, inflation expectations. Well, sure people may have 477 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: expectations about inflation, they have expectations about a lot of 478 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: other things too that may be relatively fixed or change. 479 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: And you know, I feel like some of these inflation hawks, 480 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: which unfortunately today includes a pretty wide swath of the 481 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: political landscape. These people who feel, you know, get inflation 482 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: down at all costs, they really, they have surprisingly little 483 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: belief in markets. I mean, anybody who knows me knows 484 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: I am not a great advocate for the free marketer, 485 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: you know. But but I do think that businesses in 486 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: general try to pursue profits and look for, you know, 487 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: lower cost ways of doing things and respond to the 488 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: conditions that they find themselves in. Businesses do have the 489 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: ability to adjust in a sort of rational way. And businesses, 490 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, that find themselves short on capacity or find 491 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: themselves dealing with higher labor costs, they're not necessarily just 492 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: going to sit there and throw up their hands and say, oh, well, 493 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: nothing we can do about this. I guess we'll just 494 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: raise our prices. You know, they're going to say, let's 495 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: look for ways if labor's expensive, let's look for ways 496 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: of doing more with less labor. You know, when the 497 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: minimum wage goes up, everybody says, oh my god, you know, 498 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: they're going to replace all those fast food workers with kiosks. 499 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: But you know, in an environment today like where we're 500 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: supposedly dealing with the labor shortage. That would be a 501 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: good thing. Get people out of the fast food restaurants, 502 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: let them do something more productive and meaningful with their days. 503 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: That would be a good outcome. And if labor is scarce, 504 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: that's an outcome we will see, and it's fine. You know, 505 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: we're going to see other types of adjustment by businesses again, 506 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: if they think these conditions will continue, We're going to 507 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: see investment. You know. One of the real problems we 508 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: have now is that after the Great Recession, a lot 509 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: of businesses cut back on investment, they cut back on 510 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: capital spending, and so they didn't have the capacity to 511 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: respond to the surge and demand we've seen more recently. 512 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: Even if you go back just to the beginning of 513 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: the pandemic, a big story there is that the auto 514 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: companies said, oh, well, you know, nobody's going to be 515 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: buying cars for years. We don't know what's going to happen. 516 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: It could be another recession depression. So they canceled all 517 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: their chip orders and they scaled back their production plans. 518 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: And then come to find out, for once, we actually 519 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: handled an economic crisis well in this country and maintain 520 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: people's incomes, and people actually had plenty of money to spend. 521 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: In fact, that more money has spent on cars because 522 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: they weren't you going out to eat or going on vacation. 523 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: And the auto companies were caught completely flat footed. And these, 524 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, the chips and other inputs, you have to 525 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: source them well in advance of producing the car. These 526 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: are very specialized. So so the result of that is 527 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: the scarcity of cars and arise and pricing cars, and 528 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: we say, oh my god, inflation. But we have to 529 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: be clear, the reason we're having that inflation is not 530 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: because people are spending too much money now. It's because 531 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: these companies were too pessimistic a year or two ago. 532 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: And the solution to that is not to say, oh, well, 533 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: I guess we have to make their gloomy forecast reality. 534 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: The solution to that is to keep the boom going 535 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: long enough that businesses can adjust their expectations say we're 536 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: going to face strong demand and we need to boost 537 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: our capacity so we can actually produce enough cars to 538 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: meet people's desire to buy cars. So moving back to 539 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: the FED for a second, a point you raise earlier, 540 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: which I think is a really important one, is that 541 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: the you know, sort of unprecedented in recent times, at 542 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: least labor ferment that we're seeing right now, the unionization efforts, 543 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: the demand by workers for better conditions is in part 544 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: contingent on the economic landscape that we have, which the 545 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: FED is just to my mind, going to destroy with 546 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: these interest rate hikes. To what extent is that being 547 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: factored in when business is pushing for these changes, because 548 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: as you said before, I can't imagine they're very excited 549 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: about the state of the labor movement right now. And 550 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: how seriously are these interest rate hikes going to have 551 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,959 Speaker 1: an effect just the ones that they've put in now, 552 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: not even speaking of the ones they're talking about putting 553 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: in place next year. Well, I think, you know, I 554 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: think that the silver lining, maybe the grounds for being 555 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: a little optimistic here is that the FED when it 556 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: comes to the real economy, when it comes to the 557 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: labor market, the FED is not as powerful as people 558 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 1: sometimes imagine. You know, the FED is extremely powerful when 559 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: it comes to financial markets. If the FED were to 560 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: pick some financial asset in the economy, you know, whether 561 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 1: it's you know, mortgage backed securities or bitcoin or ten 562 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: year treasury bond or whatever it is, and they say, 563 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: we think there the price of this thing should be x. 564 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 1: The price of that thing is going to be X. 565 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: When it comes to financial markets, they're pretty close to 566 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: the god of the Old Testament, you know, let every light, 567 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: and there was light. But when it comes to the 568 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: real world, they're not always that powerful. The ability to 569 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: change the price of a financial asset actually does not 570 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: give you the power to dictate hiring decisions by business 571 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: or spending decisions by households. And there's a lot of 572 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: tailwinds right now. And you know, households came out of 573 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: the you know, the pandemic with with very strong financial condition. 574 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, a lot of people really 575 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: built up their savings, paid down debt, and that creates 576 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: some headwind you know, I mean tail wind. And businesses, 577 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: you know, are seeing strong demand, which is the biggest 578 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: factor in investment. So I think, you know, if you 579 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: could imagine if the Fed somehow, you know, saw the 580 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: light and stopped hiking rates today, you could imagine that 581 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,719 Speaker 1: that perhaps what they've done so far would not have 582 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: much of an impact. You know, the rate hikes so 583 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: far pretty much equal to what we saw in the 584 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: last tightening round, you know, twenty fifteen to eighteen roughly, 585 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: and it's very hard if you look back at the 586 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: statistics on growth and employment for that period, it's very 587 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: hard to see much of an impact there. So now 588 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. Unfortunately, if they continue hiking 589 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: aggressively enough long enough, they will set off a recession 590 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: down there. My concern is the rapidity with which they're 591 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: pursuing this. I did a story recently on a FED 592 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: research report they put out warning not necessarily that the 593 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: hikes in total are huge, but that they're pursuing it 594 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: too quickly. And the idea is that there's a lag 595 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: time between when the FED introduces a rate hike and 596 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: when the effects on the economy register, and it seems 597 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: like they are just going boom boom boom, pursuing this 598 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: stuff as quickly as possible. And it's like, I heed 599 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: the FED zone warning. It's kind of interesting that their 600 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: own research is one of these things. The IMF and 601 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: the World Bank put out similar warnings last week about 602 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: not necessarily rate hikes in themselves, but how quickly, and 603 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: also the multiplier effect that all of these different central 604 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: banks internationally pursuing this program at the same time can 605 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: have and one which can't be anticipated until you sort 606 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: of seen the effects down the road. Yeah, that's right. 607 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: If you look at the FED on sort of basic 608 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: macroeconomic model, they say it's about two years, you know, 609 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: between a change in the federal funder of the policy 610 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: industry and it's a sort of maximum effect on GDP 611 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: and employment. So the rate hikes that are happening now, 612 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, might have their their their strongest effect in 613 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, towards the end of twenty twenty four, and 614 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: we really don't know what economic conditions are going to 615 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: look like at that point. It's it's very possible that 616 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: at that point we'll be saying, actually inflation is too low, 617 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: or it's very possible we'll be saying, you know, unemployment 618 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: has gone way up and we're in a recession and 619 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: we need more demand. So it's it's this is one 620 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: of the reasons why this is not a very good 621 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: tool to try to sort of precisely steer the economy 622 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: because if they call it, they called it, what a 623 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: blunt instrument. Yeah, it's a blood it's not a scalpel. 624 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: It's just bring it down the sub camera. Yeah, that's right, 625 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: and it's and it's it's also there's this big lag. 626 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: So you know, if you're steering a big ship and 627 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: you know the time between when you turn the wheel 628 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: and the time the actual vehicle turns, there's going to 629 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: be a big delay. You don't want to try to 630 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: make sharp turns in those circumstances. You want to you 631 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: want to be very cautious, make sure you see the 632 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: results of of what you've already done before you. And 633 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: they are definitely not following that principle right now, I think, 634 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: I mean, who knows what's going on there, but it 635 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: certainly seems like they've gotten a little panic. They've gotten spooked. 636 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: You know. Maybe j Pewell, who was who was you know, 637 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: very much on the sort of dove side not so 638 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: long ago and was talking about the importance of pursuing 639 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: full employment. Maybe he feels like he's got to now 640 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: be twice as tough to sort of compensate for his softness, 641 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: you know, a year ago. I don't know, but you're 642 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: certainly right that most people who study this stuff would 643 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: say you need to be moved slowly because your tool 644 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: does not you don't get feedback in real time, right, 645 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: And one other thing, what would be a more constructive 646 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: response to inflation? Because again and again, particularly in the 647 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: financial in the sort of mainstream financial press like C 648 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: the NBC, you'll see them say, well, okay, so you know, 649 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: the FED mya Trucker recession, but we got to do 650 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: something about this inflation. And that, to me strikes me 651 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: as disingenuous because it's completely ignoring the potential for you know, 652 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: a fiscal response, or at least pressuring for a fiscal response, 653 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: or maybe even you know, a more targeted set of 654 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: policies by the FAT What would be a more sensible reaction? Right, Well, 655 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: the first thing we have to say is we have 656 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: to get out of this mindset. We must do something. Look, 657 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: nobody wants eight percent inflation, but if you try to 658 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: figure out what are the costs of eight percent inflation? 659 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: What is the actual bad thing that happens when inflation 660 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: is eight percent rather than four percent or two percent, 661 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: it's very very hard. We know, we know when inflation 662 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: gets up to fifty or one hundred percent a year, 663 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: there's going to be very clear effects on growth. A 664 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: lot of types of forwardlooking economic activity are very hard 665 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: to do. It's hard to even budget in a rational 666 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: way when inflation is fifty to one hundred percent a year. 667 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: But if we're looking at single digit inflation, it's the 668 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: people have done enormous number of studies on this. It's 669 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: very hard to see the costs in a consistent way. 670 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: So the first thing we have to do is get 671 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: out of our heads that this is a crisis and 672 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: we must do something. You know, it is a problem, 673 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: and we would like to do something, but there's other 674 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: problems in the world. And it's not obvious that if 675 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: we had, you know, two percent inflation and eight percent unemployment, 676 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: we would be better off. In fact, I would argue 677 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: strannuously in that scenario we would be worse off. Explain 678 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: to me this. There has to be a weighing of 679 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: costs and benefits here and not just this absolute you know, 680 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: we must bring inflation down no matter what. Why is 681 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: the scene as acceptable to trade inflation for unemployment. I mean, 682 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: you know, if you're if if I'm a worker, I'd 683 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: rather have I'd rather have, you know, goods that are 684 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: five or ten percent more expensive and have a job. 685 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: To me, not having a job seems worse than having 686 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: more expensive So why does that find no expression in right? 687 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: Obviously about who's who's making policy. The people you know, 688 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 1: you're Larry Summers or Jason Furman or j Pell or 689 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: all their cheerleaders. They're not the ones who are going 690 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: to be losing their jobs. They're not the ones who 691 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: are going to be evicted from their houses, they're not 692 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: the ones whose kids are going to be going to 693 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: bed hungry. So you know, it's very easy to inflict 694 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: those costs on somebody else whereas inflation, you know everybody 695 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: is paying that. But I think there's deeper reasons too. 696 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: It's about you know, I think some people actually don't 697 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: like a tight labor market. They like it when labor 698 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: are scared and and kind of compliant. But let me 699 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: let me go back to the question you asked before, 700 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: which is what else could we be doing instead? Because 701 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: I think it's a real important question, and I think 702 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: the way we have to answer that question is to 703 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: stop talking about inflation in the abstract and talk about 704 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: specific prices because there's a lot of different things going 705 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: on behind that. So if you talk about energy prices, 706 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: which is a big part of the overall picture, and 707 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: I think a bigger part than the statistics tell us, 708 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: because that's an input into almost everything else. You know. 709 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: I saw a study recently that I thought was pretty 710 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: well done that argued that the overall impact of inflation 711 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: on the price level is about double the direct impact. So, look, 712 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: energy prices are set in global markets. There's nothing the 713 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: FED can do in terms of the US economy. You know, 714 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: the FED is a little bit the central bank of 715 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: the world. Maybe they can trigger a global talent turn, okay, 716 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: but certainly nothing that's happening like in US labor markets, 717 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: has much to do with energy prices. What we need 718 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: to do, first of all, is to well, we need 719 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: to delink from global energy markets, which we can do 720 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: fortunately by doing something else we really need to do, 721 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: which is moved towards much more sustainable energy. To the 722 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: extent that we're you know, depending on fossil fuel and 723 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: I mean wind power and solar power and so on, 724 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: we're going to be less vulnerable to these swings in 725 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: global fossil fuel prices. We need to you know, address 726 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: somehow the instability that drives a lot of these global swings. 727 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: In the short run, we just need to send people 728 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 1: checks to compensate them. You know, but that's one one 729 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 1: set of problems. Housing is a different set of problems. 730 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: Housing prices are going up a lot, and that's a 731 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: real short source of hardship for people. But it's not 732 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: a new problem. You know, if you look at the 733 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: last couple of years. I was just looking at this 734 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, over the last couple of years, housing 735 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: rents market rents have gone up by about six point 736 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: eight percent a year, seven percent a year. That's a lot. 737 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: But if we go back to the years before the pandemic, 738 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, rents in LA we're going up at four 739 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: and a half percent a year, which is also a lot. Yeah. Yes, 740 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: suddenly it's not a new problem. It is a long 741 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: standing problem. We need to boost housing supply. We need 742 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: land use reform. Some people on the left don't want 743 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: to talk about that, but we need actually to allow 744 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,879 Speaker 1: the market private for provate developers to build more high 745 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 1: density housing. But we also need social housing, We need 746 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: a lot more public money, and we need rent regulation, 747 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 1: at least in the short term. So that's a problem 748 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: that is not really it's a very important problem, but 749 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: you're not really understanding it if you just stick it 750 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: in a box. Labeled inflation. And then you know, we 751 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: have we have education, healthcare, which are areas where there's 752 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: already huge government involvement and and there it's really possible 753 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: to use the level leverage the government already has to 754 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: influence price setting, which we're getting. You know, let's mention 755 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: of you know, with the in the UH, the IRA, 756 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: the Inflation Reduction Act, with you know, Medicare, and negotiating 757 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: over drug prices. But you know, we we can, we 758 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: can do a lot more using those levers. But again 759 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: it's it's not really an inflation problem. It is a 760 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: healthcare and education prices problem. And then you know, we 761 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: have ongoing supply problems, supply chain problems for manufactured goods, 762 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: and some of the solution there is we need to 763 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: really invest in our port infrastructure and our transportation infrastructure 764 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: and maybe think about onsourcing some of these key I 765 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: mean on shoring some of these key components that were 766 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: dependent on imports for But also frankly, that's an area 767 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: where I think there is an argument for letting the 768 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: market work. You know, the chip manufacturers are not holding 769 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: back supply to boost prices. They would like to be 770 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: selling more chips. The auto manufacturers would like to be 771 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: selling more cars, and if we give them time and 772 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: don't you know, crush demand with excessive interest rate hikes, 773 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: they will figure out how to solve these problems. So 774 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: I think you really have to get away from the 775 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: notion that there's a one size fits all solution to 776 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: rising prices. Yeah. I think it's a really important point 777 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: because when you see the sort of discourse on cable 778 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: news about these things, it tends to be in across 779 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: the board treatment of things, whether it's inflation or labor conditions, 780 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: because there are subsets within as you said, there's different 781 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,800 Speaker 1: price rates for different things, and even within the labor market, 782 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: if you look at, say, the data suggests that people 783 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: in the hospitality industry, you know, the lower working class, 784 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: are doing a lot better than other segments. And so 785 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: to make these sweeping proclamations about you know, inflation and 786 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: workers and without talking about well, who do you mean, 787 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 1: what do you mean? Seems you know, not just irresponsible, 788 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: it's sort of disingenuous because you know, it feels as 789 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: though they're trying to trigger a sort of panic and 790 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: not that you know, we don't have problems that we 791 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: need to solve but trying to make people think that 792 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: they're all in precisely the same boat, as you said, 793 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: as Jason Furman, and as all these other you know, 794 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: multimillion dollar economists. Yeah, whose interests couldn't be any more 795 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: different than anyone Else's acting like, oh, we're all in this. 796 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: You know, we've got to tighten our belts, and you 797 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: know we're gonna have to accept, you know, a lower 798 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: living standard. It's like, well, that's not going to affect 799 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: you at all, you know, And I wish it would 800 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 1: be a little bit more candid about about these things. Yeah, 801 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, this has been a great labor 802 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: market for people who normally do not experience a great 803 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: labor market for people with wages, less education, you know, 804 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: non white people, young people, you know, those are the 805 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: people who are really benefiting from the current tight labor market. 806 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: And I think we should be more candid about, you know, 807 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: when you say those are the people I want to 808 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: make bear the costs for, you know, my belief that 809 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: inflation ought to be lower. You know, I think I 810 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: think there's not a lot of honesty about that right now. 811 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: All right, professor, I'm very grateful for your joining me 812 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: and for sharing your insights. Thank you for having me 813 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: all right, thanks everyone for joining us as well. This 814 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: is another edition of Breaking Points Intercept edition. I'm Matt Stoler, 815 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: author of monopoly focused newsletter Big and an anti trust 816 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: policy analyst. I have a great segment for you today 817 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: on this Big Breakdown. So it's it's kind of like 818 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: normally I try to make a big, sort of a 819 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: big argument about what's going on in the economy, but 820 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: today's kind of like a fun little segment about about Amazon, 821 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,719 Speaker 1: and it's it's less about law and more about the 822 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: culture of modern commerce and law. Okay, so take it 823 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: from the top. A lot of the big executives at 824 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: Amazon have left since Jeff Bezos, who was the founder, 825 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: stepped down as CEO of Amazon last year. So their 826 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: top lobbyist, Jay Carney, the head of their retail division, 827 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: Dave Clark, Dave Boseman, who's the vice president of Amazon 828 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 1: Transportation Services, and so on and so forth. So it's 829 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: like a lot of the top guys, and then the 830 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: sort of their subordinates have gone to other places because 831 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: Amazon's a giant company that's maybe not as fun to 832 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: be at anymore. Now. It's always interesting to keep an 833 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: eye on Amazon's internal personnel moves because they speak to 834 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,879 Speaker 1: the general culture of what is the pace setting firm 835 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: in American retail and commerce, Like everybody copies Amazon. So 836 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: for example, when Jay Carney joined Amazon in twenty fifteen 837 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 1: after serving as White House Press Secretary, it spoke to 838 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: the close relationship that big tech monopolies had with the 839 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: Obama administration and Democrats generally. It's not surprising that Bezos 840 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: has subsequently given one hundred million dollars to Obama's presidential library. 841 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: That relationship has turned around, but at the time that 842 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: was kind of what j Carney's moved to Amazon said. Now, 843 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: his latest slate of departures, of course, means that there 844 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: will also be promotions because people have to take the 845 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 1: place of those who are leaving. And a contact pointed 846 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,280 Speaker 1: out to me that last week Amazon shuffled its management 847 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: teams across its warehouse divisions. Actually it was two weeks ago, 848 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: and it was it revealed that Amazon had promoted the 849 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: company's head of loss prevention in the America's lost prevention 850 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: being stopping people from stealing stuff. Dana Howard is her name. 851 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: She was promoted to be the head of training for 852 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 1: all warehouse workers in North America. Now, what's interesting about 853 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: Howard is that she's a former analyst at a private 854 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: prison company. That's where she kind of got her start 855 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: as a career. Now, nothing wrong with hiring her, of course, 856 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: for many different security positions. But the thing is she's 857 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: not insecurity anymore. She's running training for just warehouse workers generally. Now, 858 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,479 Speaker 1: following Howard's career path is interesting for what it says 859 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: about Amazon. So she started her at the private prison 860 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,879 Speaker 1: giant known as the Correction Corporations of America that has 861 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 1: since been renamed Corcivic because it had such a such 862 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,959 Speaker 1: a lovely brand. Right, So, some of the fun controversies 863 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: involved letting private gangs run in Indiana prison to save costs, 864 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: stock manipulation, prisoner's dying, all sorts of like fun stuff 865 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,280 Speaker 1: like that. Now, at CCA, according to her LinkedIn page, 866 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: Howard quote revamped inmate admission processes and revised all processing documentation, 867 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 1: which resulted in a twenty percent reduction in inmate processing 868 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: time and a reduced error rate. So basically, Howard was 869 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: apparently good at designing systems to herd prisoners. Naturally, now 870 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: she's at Amazon. Okay, So at Amazon, she came to 871 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: head their global security group and then their loss Prevention Team, 872 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,240 Speaker 1: which is to say that she is running their efforts 873 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: to stop employees and contractors and so on and so 874 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: forth from taking stuff from stealing. Now, all of this 875 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: is reasonable, you got to do it. It's distasteful, but 876 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,880 Speaker 1: theft in retail, especially at a giant firm like Amazon, 877 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: is a problem, and having internal security is clearly a 878 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 1: need for a company like that. But what is surprising 879 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: is that she is now running their Learning and Development Team, 880 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: which is Amazon's internal training program for all workers warehouse workers. 881 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: And there's nothing illegal about any of this, but Howard's 882 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: career path does give us some perspective on how Amazon 883 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: executives understand those who basically didn't go to college and 884 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: what they are good for. It's a real class split. Now, 885 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 1: I think the last point, and kind of the broad 886 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: point of the segment, is that Howard also ran I 887 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: watched a bunch of videos of about what was Howard 888 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: was involved in and how Amazon does security, and she 889 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: ran what are called lean In circles for women at Amazon, 890 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,240 Speaker 1: as this video shows now lean In named for Cheryl 891 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: Sandberg's kind of brand of feminism. But you know, it's 892 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,880 Speaker 1: also sort of a tell on kind of diversity initiatives 893 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,479 Speaker 1: among elites in general. Amazon spends a lot of money 894 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: emphasizing its various diversity initiatives, and of course there's nothing 895 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: wrong with diversity generally speaking. I admire it. I mean, 896 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: I am a left wing Democrat, and I think that 897 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,799 Speaker 1: diversity is really critical for tolerating it and encouraging it 898 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: and fostering it. This is really important for America, for 899 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 1: making it a place that all of us can work in, 900 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,400 Speaker 1: that all of us can feel comfortable, and it's always 901 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: been a strength of our country. But there's also something 902 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: really cynical happening in corporate America. And Howard is a 903 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: good example and illustration of the contradiction. Nothing personal about her. 904 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure she's very good at her job, but what 905 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: she does and how she thinks about the world and 906 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,760 Speaker 1: how Amazon thinks about the world is a good illustration 907 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: of a contradiction. So you have someone who started her 908 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: career as a private jailer and then moved to stopping 909 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: theft and then kept that by training warehouse workers in general. 910 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: And of course, as we've seen, Amazon focuses aggressively on 911 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,479 Speaker 1: ensuring that those workers can't unionize. So this dynamic says 912 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: a lot about how Amazon thinks about power in the workplace, 913 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,800 Speaker 1: who has it and who doesn't. And justice at least 914 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: four people like Howard for the top tier at Amazon 915 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the warehouse workers being trained 916 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 1: by someone like Howard, but has to do whether the 917 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 1: jailers themselves are sufficiently diverse. It's diversity for elites in 918 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 1: a system where the sort of the rabble have no power. 919 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: Now to pull this away from Howard and Amazon for 920 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 1: a second, we see this kind of thing all over 921 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 1: the place, Like I track antitrust and I see it everywhere. 922 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,560 Speaker 1: So here's a big corporate law firm, Latham and Watkins 923 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 1: bragging about how quote unquote all women team helped a 924 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 1: poultry firm get off scott free from a price fixing 925 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,320 Speaker 1: charge from the government. So making your chicken price is 926 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 1: higher illegally by colluding with competitors, they helped you. DLJ 927 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,719 Speaker 1: brought up criminal case and it was an all women team. 928 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: Celebrate the all women team who helped those poultry executives 929 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: get off scott free for allegedly stealing from you and me, now, 930 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,759 Speaker 1: like they deserve a defense. But you know, that is 931 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 1: a very interesting way of portraying the defense. Or in 932 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: a recent merger trial, right, So, a corporate executive of 933 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: a large book publishing house that was trying to be 934 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: acquired by another large book publishing house as very consolidated 935 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:18,120 Speaker 1: industry that controls free expression. So he said that, referring 936 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 1: to the five dominant firms as the Big Five, which 937 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,840 Speaker 1: is kind of what everybody in the industry calls it. 938 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,359 Speaker 1: He was trying to push back on the idea they 939 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,240 Speaker 1: had market power, and he said, oh, well, just calling 940 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: us the Big five is parochial and ethnocentric, right, Okay, 941 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 1: So that's another example of sort of the weaponization of 942 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,400 Speaker 1: what is well meaning diversity rhetoric for capital. Okay. So 943 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm a left wing populous and I'm not arguing against 944 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 1: the versy. There's obvious racial and gender disparities in America, 945 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,880 Speaker 1: but diversifying the elites without changing the ultimate power structure 946 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: is not about redressing those It's about creating an aristocracy. 947 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,560 Speaker 1: It lets our elites tell themselves a story in which 948 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: they are the heroes, even as they act as jailers 949 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: are bullies or union busters. And this messed up vision 950 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,279 Speaker 1: of justice even gets into policy discourse. So here's a 951 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 1: clip of hearing last week of two of corporate powers 952 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 1: key foes in government. So this is left wing antitrust 953 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,400 Speaker 1: enforcer Lena Khan, who runs the Federal Trade Commission, and 954 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: right wing Senator Josh Holly, who is an anti monopolist. 955 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,320 Speaker 1: Now they are doing something very unusual, which is agreeing 956 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: across party lines that diversity and environmental, social and corporate 957 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,000 Speaker 1: governance choices do not justify the consolidation of corporate power. 958 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,480 Speaker 1: Now let's take a look. There have been reports of 959 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: your office is conditioned merger approval, if only implicitly on 960 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: whether companies have adopted what I would characterize as leftists 961 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:47,280 Speaker 1: liberal environmental, social and governance policies ESG policies. In other words, 962 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,400 Speaker 1: the claim is that these companies are more likely to 963 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 1: have their merger requests blocked if they aren't pushing things 964 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: like say, critical race theory in the workforce. Can you 965 00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: address that that's incorrect candidly something that we do see 966 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,799 Speaker 1: sometimes as firms come to us and say, hey, we're 967 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 1: proposing this merger. We know you'll probably identify it as unlawful, 968 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: but we'll make all of these ESG commitments and you 969 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: should take those as a reason to bless the merger. 970 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,160 Speaker 1: I personally never find that compelling. I don't think those 971 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: types of ESG commitments or anything in that vein can 972 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,520 Speaker 1: ever rescue an illegal deal, okay, And you would not 973 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,799 Speaker 1: in any way condition merger approval on the adoption of 974 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,439 Speaker 1: a particular set of ESG policies. Just to be clear, 975 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,839 Speaker 1: that's not having it wouldn't happen, absolutely not. I think 976 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: in fact, the merger laws prohibit us from doing that. 977 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: Depending on who you are, both of these figures are 978 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 1: pretty polarizing. Like a lot of people on the in 979 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,120 Speaker 1: sort of the business world, don't like Lena Khan, Josh Holly, 980 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,320 Speaker 1: I don't need to go into there's a he is 981 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,719 Speaker 1: a very polarizing figure. But put feelings about those two aside, 982 00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,200 Speaker 1: right and just think about the substance. Look at the 983 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,399 Speaker 1: substance here. There are a number of interesting things about 984 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:58,280 Speaker 1: this exchange. First, a Republican, a conservative right wing Republican, 985 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: and a populous Democrat are agreeing that concentrated corporate power 986 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,760 Speaker 1: is dangerous. So that's one thing. Two con is saying 987 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 1: that corporations regularly offer environmental, social and corporate governments commit 988 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 1: governance commitments in the hopes that they can get permission 989 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 1: to engage in unlawful mergers to consolidate power. So this 990 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 1: strategy clearly works on regulators or they wouldn't offer. It 991 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,360 Speaker 1: doesn't work on con but it works in probably in 992 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,799 Speaker 1: other areas, and it has worked in the past. But third, 993 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: and I think this is most important. The game I 994 00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,520 Speaker 1: think is up. Most voters were never really fooled by 995 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,400 Speaker 1: this garbage. They think about power, they don't think about 996 00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, this sort of fantasy among elites. In fact, 997 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 1: I think elites we were fooling ourselves. It's why Amazon 998 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,080 Speaker 1: trains its warehouse workers as potential thieves. But anger at 999 00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:00,040 Speaker 1: the great imbalances of political power embodied by firms like 1000 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: Amazon is actually leading to political changes. So Chris Small's, 1001 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,160 Speaker 1: for example, helped unionize the warehouse in Long Island, as 1002 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,200 Speaker 1: you guys know, And there's a lot of unionization activity 1003 00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:11,839 Speaker 1: all over the economy. And I don't mean to say 1004 00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,920 Speaker 1: that unionization is the only thing only way that this 1005 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: bat that this reaction is happening. It's just one way 1006 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:18,880 Speaker 1: it's happening. It's happening in lots of different ways. But 1007 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,080 Speaker 1: that's a very obvious example where it's happening in Amazon. 1008 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,480 Speaker 1: But also, and I'm going to oversimplify for a second, 1009 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,120 Speaker 1: Lena Kahn, who started her sort of scholarship career and 1010 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm sort of rocketed to fame in twenty seventeen with 1011 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:39,320 Speaker 1: a law review article about Amazon, is now as close 1012 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: to you as you can come to being Amazon's regulator, 1013 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:48,399 Speaker 1: and hopefully she'll set emotion the lawsuits to break up 1014 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,600 Speaker 1: or constrain the company. There are reasons that that to 1015 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,160 Speaker 1: think that that's already happening. There are reasons to think 1016 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,359 Speaker 1: that it won't happen. But that's the kind of like 1017 00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: hope that people like me have for some body like 1018 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:05,239 Speaker 1: con And frankly, these kinds of changes, these redresses of 1019 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,520 Speaker 1: balances and balances of power, are long overdue. So thanks 1020 00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,880 Speaker 1: for watching this Big Breakdown on the Breaking Points channel, 1021 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,720 Speaker 1: And if you'd like to know more about big business 1022 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 1: and how our economy really works, how our policy makers 1023 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 1: really think and operate, you can sign up below for 1024 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:24,320 Speaker 1: my market power focused newsletter Big in the description, Thanks 1025 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: and have a good one