1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace is coming to Fox Nation. I Want Justice. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace premieres March ninth, only on 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Fox Nation. This is about the victims that have lost 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: their lives on cruise ships. She's supposed to be the 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: happiest time of your life with your friends. You're with 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: your family and your children, your spouse, You're on vacation, 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: not working for seven wonderful days. What goes Crime Stories 8 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace, Welcome to Crime Stories. 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: Thank you from being with us. You know I'm planning 10 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: a Disney cruise and no that's not a plug. We've 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: been on two Disney cruises with the children, fantastic. I'm 12 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: planning another one. And you know why because when I 13 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: think cruise, I don't think murder, even though I think 14 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: murder all the time, I don't put cruise and murder 15 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: together in the same sentence. But maybe I should take 16 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends Stephen Fabian. The family of 17 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: five boarded the Emerald Princess in Seattle on Sunday for 18 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: a seven day cruise. These photos were taken just before 19 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: boarding the ship. The Emerald Princess with forty five hundred 20 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: passengers and crew headed up the magnificent Alaskan Coastline for 21 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: a once in a lifetime cruise on Tuesday night. The 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: passengers were being entertained by, of all things, a murder 23 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: mystery dinner. Then came the sound of a terrible fight 24 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: that had broken out in one of the staterooms on 25 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: Deck nine. Then came the disturbing announcement to the entire ship, 26 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: calling for medical and security personnel to head straight to 27 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: the stateroom. I spoke with passenger Vic Simpson on the 28 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: Emerald Princess because they were doing a murder mystery theater 29 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: about a death on a cruise ship. I think most 30 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: of us in there thought it was just part of 31 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: the dramatic effect of what they were doing. Did the 32 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: person sound frantic? He did, santaniced my stars. I've seen 33 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: those murder mystery dinners, and so when the people heard screaming, 34 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: they thought it was part of their murder mystery dinner. 35 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: How wrong were they? It was an actual scream from 36 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: a murder again. I mean, see, Grace, this is climb story. 37 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us with me an all star 38 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: panel to break it down and put it together again. 39 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: For you. Kathleen Murphy, we're now North Carolina lawyer. You 40 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: can find her at NSE Domestic Law dot com. James 41 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: Shellnutt twenty seven years metro major k SWAT officer, now lawyer, 42 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: psychoanalyst to the stars. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us from 43 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: the course Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. 44 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: And a renowned female medical examiner. You don't find many 45 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: of those, doctor Michelle Dupree out of Carolina. Not only 46 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: medical examiner, but she's the author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, 47 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: which is a must read if you're a crime sleuth. 48 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: But right now, to Ray Caputo, lead news anchors for 49 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: Orlando's Morning News ninety six point five, WDBO, I was 50 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: just listening to our friend Stephen Fabian at Inside Edition, 51 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: Ray Kipputo, I don't normally put cruise with murder in 52 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: the same sentence, but what those people heard were actually 53 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: the screams of a woman on the cruise, the Emerald 54 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: Princess with her family. What was her mode of death? Well, 55 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: Tenneth and Christie mens and ears they were in their 56 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: cata when their two daughters with an explosive argument break 57 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: No whoa ray kaputo. The alphabet goes A to Z. 58 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm asking you a okay, because in all crime investigations 59 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: you start at the beginning. Ray ka puto. What was 60 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: the mode of death? It was blunt forced trauma from 61 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: close fist. Nancy, she was beaten to death. Huh blunt 62 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: force trauma, closed fist, you know. To doctor Bethany Marshall, 63 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: psychoanalyst joining me out of Beverly Hills. No offense, doctor Bethany, 64 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: but I wanted to get your head out of rodeo 65 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: drive translation rodeo when you go on a cruise ship. 66 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: And I've done this myself and I actually write about 67 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: it and the book that I've just written, don't be 68 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: a victim. You have a false sense of complacency. Now 69 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: I felt that way. We were out on the main debt. Bethany. 70 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: Picture this at night after supper and Disney puts up, 71 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: of course Disney movie, and the children can play in 72 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: the pool, or we can play in with them. And 73 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: it's at night out on the you're watching a Disney movie. 74 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: Of course, the water is only up to here. Nobody's 75 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: going to drown. And it was just so calming, and relaxing. 76 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: It's easy to slip into a sense of complacency and 77 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: thing everything's okay on a cruise ship, Bethany. But Nancy, 78 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: it's calm and complacent for you because you're in the 79 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: normal marriage. You don't have a toxic family. I don't know. 80 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: You may need to ask my husband about that, whether 81 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: it's normal or not. But go ahead, But think about this. 82 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: For some families when they go on a cruise, there 83 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: are idealized expectations. You don't have. Some people even there. 84 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: They're fifty five years old and it's their birthday and 85 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: they get their feelings hurt because everybody doesn't, you know, 86 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: congratulate them on Facebook. No, actually I doubt know that 87 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: because I don't really recognize my own birthdays. But go ahead, 88 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: have your way well out there and Beverly Hills. That 89 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: a grown person gets mad somebody doesn't Facebook, then okay, 90 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: go ahead and your alternate universe, Bethy A, all right, 91 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: and my ultimate universe. Some some adults act like babies. 92 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: They go into the cations, holidays with these idealized expectations 93 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: that they're going to be special, they're going to be loved, um, 94 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: they're going to have these wonderful gourmet meals, romantic evenings, 95 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: great sex, intimacy, and then let the attract sex into 96 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: everything everything, No matter what I ask you, sex gets 97 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: in there. Go ahead, Hey, hey, it was a romantic cruise. 98 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: They did have their family along. Christie had her father, 99 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: two brothers, they had their two daughters. But somehow the 100 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: idealized view of what would happen got shattered that faithful night. 101 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: The couple must have been happened fighting. You mix in 102 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: alcohol of some you know what you're right. Let me 103 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: stop you right there about the alcohol. I want you 104 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: to take a listen now to our friend Dan Raskin 105 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: at k youth Tay. I heard terrible screaming. I know 106 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: it was no normal, but now those girls have lost 107 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: both parents. Their father, Kenneth Massonarius, is in custody, accused 108 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: of the brutal murder. The family member says she never 109 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: saw any serious marital problems between the two. I've never 110 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: seen Kenny an angry person. Ever. The horrific screams could 111 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: be heard by passengers about nine o'clock on Tuesday night. 112 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: One passenger says his wife saw Massonarius on the balcony 113 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: covered in blood as if wanting to jump my wife's 114 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: registered nurse. She thought he was going to jump over 115 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: the rail and at one time he put his hand 116 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: on the rail and says his rear on it. That 117 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: she started yelling and get back in, and the ship 118 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: announced give a security team to that area, and another 119 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: passenger heard screams coming from a daughter of the little 120 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: girls from that room came running out, calling for help 121 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: that her parents had been in a fight. She found 122 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: a pretty death bread. You know, straight out, Kathleen Murphy, 123 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: North Carolina, family lawyer, no stranger to a courtroom, Kathleen. 124 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: You know, when you get alcohol, it's like pouring gas 125 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: on a fire. What normally would have been just an argument. 126 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: You know, my husband and I never argued. We hardly 127 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: ever argued until we had children. And when we do argue, 128 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: it's usually about something to do with the children or 129 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: my eighty nine year old mother that lives with me, 130 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: as you and I've discussed. But here we hear that 131 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: alcohol was involved. Now you're a domestic lawyer. I'd rather 132 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: try a serial killer, Kathleen, which I have done than 133 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: that in between two people in a domestic as we 134 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: call them in cop talk and a domestic they'll shoot you. 135 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: They don't care because they're so angry and incensed, and 136 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: then you pour alcohol on it. Now, let me ask you, 137 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, what is it with domestics. They're liable to 138 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: go sideways just like that, Nancy. You know I've I've 139 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 1: said to you before or The difficulty is everybody is 140 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: putting out these appearances on social media that there's wonderful, 141 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: happy family, but the reality that I see every single 142 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: day is that there is so many problems. There are 143 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: so many problems that couples are having and they're not 144 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: dealing with them appropriately. So when we have alcohol to 145 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: the mixture, the truth is coming out. It was an 146 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: abusive relationship and the reality is the children were on 147 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: the cruise. David and I typically don't even raise there 148 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: are our exceptions, of course, don't even raise our voices. 149 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: If we argue, we do not raise our voices. Certainly, 150 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: don't curse much. Let's pick up a knife or slug 151 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: each other in front of the children. Absolutely not. I 152 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: think they should see you disagreeing because you can't live 153 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: together and agree on everything. But why does it have 154 00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: to go so out of control? Time stories with Nancy Grace. 155 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: For those of you Jess joining us, we are talking 156 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: about cruise ship murders, and I want you to take 157 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: a listen now to our friend Stephen Fabian and Inside Edition. 158 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: It was supposed to be a romantic wedding anniversary cruised 159 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: to Alaska, but the FBI says it ended in murder. 160 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: Thirty nine year old Christie Manzanira As was killed in 161 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: her cabin on the Emerald Princess and what the FBI 162 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: says was a domestic dispute. Her husband, Kenneth, is in custody. 163 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: Christie had a severe head wound and blood was spread 164 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: throughout the room, says an FBI criminal complaint. Her husband 165 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 1: allegedly told the witness she would not stop laughing at me. 166 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: My life is over. Kenneth Manzonira's reportedly tried to jump overboard, 167 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: but was restrained by the ship's Christie and Kenneth were 168 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: celebrating eighteen years of marriage. Their three teenage daughters were 169 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 1: whipped them. Passenger Chris Semant, one of the little girls 170 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 1: from that room, came running out calling for help that 171 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: her parents had been in a fight. I spoke with 172 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: family member Casey Hunt in Utah emotionally, it's just hard 173 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: to comprehend having someone so sweet and so perfect taken 174 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: in the primal of their life like that. Over what 175 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: the husband says, She wouldn't quit laughing at me, so 176 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: he kills her, and you know, I want to run 177 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: out to James shell Nutt twenty seven years Metro Major 178 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: case detective SWAT officer, now lawyer, James shell Nutt, did 179 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: you hear something very critical? Blood was all over the room? 180 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 1: You know what? That tells me that it was a 181 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: prolonged attack. It wasn't just one blow. She tried to 182 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: get away from him, hence the blood all over the room. 183 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: If it had been once sneaking up on her, let's 184 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: just say, from behind and wham to the back of 185 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: the head, there would not be all over the room. 186 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: So that tells me that she was screaming, that she 187 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: was trying to get away, that she was fighting back, 188 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: but she could not fight back. She could not win 189 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: against him. And I wonder what the blunt force trauma object, 190 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: how it was influtible. What does that tell you the 191 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: blood pattern? James shell Nutt, Well, I mean exactly what 192 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:23,839 Speaker 1: you said. I mean that you know this is a 193 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: violent attack. It went all and this lady defended herself, 194 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure the best that she could as a victim. 195 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: She was eventually overpowered. It matches exactly what the daughters 196 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: said later in the investigation. And this is something that 197 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: went on for me. Well, speaking of the daughters talking 198 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: later in the investigation. Back to Ray Kaputo, lead news anchor, 199 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: Orlando Morning News ninety six point five w DBO. Ray, again, 200 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What did the daughters say? 201 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: And all this is unfolding on a family cruise, on 202 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: this beautiful cruise liner. What the children say, Ray, Well, 203 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: what of the girls was saying after the attack that 204 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: I knew that he would do this, and you know, 205 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: it seemed to be something that the kids were aware 206 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: of the you know, they knew their parents trouble. But 207 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: but also I mean that the girls were just hysterical 208 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 1: because they saw this going on. They actually witnessed their 209 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: father just straddling their mom and pumbling her. So the 210 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: girls were hysterical. But when the girls had said, yeah, 211 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: that she had saw you thought that her father was 212 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: going to do something like this, mess says a lot, Nancy, 213 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: you know, to doctor Michelle du Pree, renowned medical examiner 214 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 1: out of South Carolina and author of homicide Investigation Field Guy. 215 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: Doctor Dupree, you know I could listen to you analyze 216 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: mortal wounds all day long. You have handled a lot 217 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: of autopsies that were the result of domestic attacks, and 218 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: doctor Dupree, I can't tell you how many cases I've handled, 219 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: all felonies where everybody around them nie something horrible was 220 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: going to happen. It's like a ticking time bomb waiting 221 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: to go off, as in this where the little girls 222 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: knew that one day their dad was going to do 223 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: something horrible. How can you look at a body and 224 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: determine what exactly happened. I know you may not be 225 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: able to determine the order of the blows, which one 226 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: came first, But as far as a blow to the 227 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: head being a mortal wound, how does that happen? Why? 228 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: That's an excellent question. And what we do is we 229 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: actually look at the area of the body that was struck. 230 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: We look at the intensity that was struck. So when 231 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: we look who WHOA You're the MD, I'm just the JD. 232 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: What do you mean You can look at a body 233 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: and you can tell the intensity, because we can look 234 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: at the type of force that it would cause that 235 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: would be needed to cause that type of an injury. 236 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: For example, fist are going to cause injury to the 237 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: soft tissue, but a baseball bat is going to crush 238 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: the skull. And so looking at the different injuries and 239 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: knowing what kind of force that would take to make 240 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: an injury like that, then we can tell what actually happened. 241 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: You know another thing I'm fascinated by, and this really 242 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: became evident. You and I discussed this, Doctor Dupree. Do 243 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: you remember doctor Teresa Sievers who was killed in Benita Springs, Florida. 244 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: Her husband cooked up some crazy plot with who was 245 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: one of his buddies and his friend and the beautiful 246 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: mom of their girls. Doctor brought home all the money 247 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: to the home. Not judging, but now he wasn't happy. 248 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: Wasn't happy with the beautiful home and the beautiful wife 249 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: and the children and the money and the blah, the blah, 250 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: the blah. She was killed with a claw hammer, and 251 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: they could actually match up the hammer to the wounds 252 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: in her head. What I'm trying to say, and not 253 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: a very good way. You can actually tell the weapon 254 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: that was used to inflict the blow, like a baseball bat, 255 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: like a metal rod, like a hammer. How would you 256 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: tell if it was with a fist as is alleged 257 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 1: in this case. Exactly, Nancy. We cause a pattern injuries, 258 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: and we can look at the pattern of injury on 259 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: the body and we can tell again what type of 260 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: weapon caused that. A baseball bat is going to cause 261 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: a different injury than a fist. A fist is going 262 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: to be much more blunted. It's not going to be 263 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: a specific injury like a hammer would leave around defect. 264 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: So we're going to look at that type of injury, 265 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: the bruising, the destruction of the tissue, and determine that 266 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: type of weapon. You know what's interesting about this, James 267 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: shellnutt is typically at trial you cannot get in autopsy 268 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: photos due to there typically grizzly nature, unless and until 269 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: you can convince a judge that this particular photo shows 270 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: something that only can be shown in an autopsy photo. 271 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: I learned that lesson James, when I had to show 272 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: a jury let's oh yes, and an autopsy if there 273 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: had injuries, the skin is removed or pulled back from 274 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: the skull, and that was shown to the jury because 275 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: there were bruises under the skin not apparent on the 276 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: overlay of the skin. In this case, that may be 277 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: necessary to show an autopsy photo to show how the 278 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: medical examiner can tell the jury beyond a reasonable doubt 279 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: that this was inflicted with a fist. Agree or disagree, Shelnett. 280 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: And it has the dual benefit for the prosecution and 281 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: for the victim to get this jury man and to 282 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: let them see what happened to the victim before I 283 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: go on to our next story. Cruise, ship and murder 284 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: just shouldn't go together, but guess what they do. And 285 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: that's about Lonnie Cocante's I want to go back to 286 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, Doctor Bethany, please he try try to 287 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: jump overboard? Really didn't try very hard, did he? Why 288 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: do killers always say I tried to kill myself, but whoops, 289 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: I kill my wife? Why and anthy? When they get 290 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: into trouble, they make up all kinds of things. We 291 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: call it malingering. Malingering is the make up? Well, I 292 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: call it something else, but I'm not gonna say that 293 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: on Fox Nation because I sware I give up cursing 294 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: when I had the children. The last thing I need 295 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: is Jesus mad at me. Okay, on top of everything else. 296 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say what I call it. But why 297 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: do they always say, Oh, I tried to kill him myself, 298 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: but that didn't work, so I killed my wife. Well, 299 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: the most common thing that is malingered is Amnetzsche. I 300 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: don't I blocked out. I don't remember. She was laughing 301 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: at me, and then I don't know where we just 302 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: saw that Bethany Molly Tibbitts, the gorgeous jogger. The guy 303 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: that sounds right killed her allegedly said he forgot he 304 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: killed her and put her in the trunk, and then 305 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: he saw her earbuds in his lap, and suddenly he 306 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: remembered that her body was in his trunk. Guys, that 307 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: is just one example of murder on a cruise ship. 308 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: And this is weighing very heavily on my mind as 309 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: I plan our Alaskan cruise with the children on Disney. 310 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: Maybe I should plan a backyard camp out. Maybe that 311 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 1: would be a safer option. But so far, no murders 312 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: on Disney that I know of. I want to talk about. 313 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: Lonnie could contests, Hi, guys, Nancy Grace. Here, I have 314 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: investigated and prosecuted literally thousands of felony cases. I have 315 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: covered literally thousands of cases of missing people, adults and children, 316 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: unsolved homicides, violent crimes. My question is what can we 317 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: do about it. I don't want to just sit back 318 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: and report on it. I want to take action, and 319 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: I know you must feel the same way. And here 320 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 1: is the news we have all worked so hard to 321 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: bring to you. Don't Be a Victim Fighting Back Against 322 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: America's Crime Wave a brand new book you can pre 323 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: order now go to crime online dot com. This book 324 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: is for everyone. It even includes how to stay safe 325 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: while you travel in hotels. If you're abroad, what do 326 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: you do to make sure you come home safely to 327 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: your family. Don't Be a Victim Fighting Back Against America's 328 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: Crime Wave available for pre order now crime online dot Com. 329 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: Pre order now and know that portions of our proceeds 330 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: goes to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. 331 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You're listening to crime Stories 332 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: and I'm Nancy Grace, but this isn't about me. This 333 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: is about the victims that have lost their lives on 334 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: cruise ships. She's supposed to be the happiest time of 335 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: your life with your friends. You're with your family and 336 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: your children, your spouse. You're on vacation, not working for 337 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: seven wonderful days. What goes wrong? I want you to 338 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Anna Garcia of Crime 339 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: Watch Daily. After three days on board, he and Micky 340 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: were in their cabin late at night when Micky told 341 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: him she was going to the ships canteen eleven o'clock 342 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: toob o'cock at night. Ronnie decides to go to bed 343 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: and Mickey tells them that she wants to go get 344 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: a cup of tea and necessarily last he sees of her. 345 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: Lonnie says he woke up hours later, but she still 346 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: wasn't back. He says he searched everywhere on board for her, 347 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: even sexed with other passengers, but there was no sign 348 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: of Michie. No one on the ship saw her after 349 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: the two of them went to their room. After being 350 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: questioned and released, Lonnie is put up at a hotel 351 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: in Naples while Italian authorities investigating Mickey's disappearance, but does 352 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: he say the help with a search. The very next day, 353 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: Lonnie catches a flame back to the States and just 354 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: listen to where he lands. After one night at the hotel, 355 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: he ended up flying back to the United States and 356 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: went directly to the home of wife's number three. Wait 357 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: a minute, you mean he leaves that very Why does 358 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: he leave? Straight out to you? Ray Kaput joining me 359 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: from Orlando. Ray, tell me what happened to Lonnie? Please? Well, 360 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: well Lonnie, yeah, I mean him and Mickey they were 361 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: they were married I believe in two thousand or late nineties, 362 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: and they divorced not long after, about six years and 363 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: early two thousand one. But they remained in close contact Nancy, 364 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: and they were having Wait a minute, they're divorced and 365 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: they go on a cruise together. Yeah, okay, right, right, 366 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: right right, Bethany Marshall, I gotta go straight out to 367 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: you everybody again, you're joining our Fox Nation. Nancy graces 368 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: his crime story. Thank you for being with us. We're 369 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: talking about cruise ships and murder, doctor, Bethany Marshall. Is 370 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: that a good idea to be divorced and then you 371 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: go on a cruise together, a romantic cruise? I mean, 372 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: as I always say what people ask me love advice, 373 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: there's a reason they're an X or they call it 374 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: a break up because it's broken, right, I mean, oh, well, 375 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: I got I'm stealing it. It's mine. Now, this relationship 376 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: had gone terribly sour, he had remarried. They go on 377 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: some kind of a cruise to rekindle their romance. But 378 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: at the same time they have this property in common 379 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: that they are in have these she has half, he 380 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: has half, and he appears to have the kind of personality. 381 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: And I've seen this in my private practice in Beverly Hills, 382 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: where one person has the assets and wants them all 383 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 1: for themselves. You know, maybe they've built a business together, 384 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: or they have a home, or they bought all this furniture, 385 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: but there's one person who keeps holding the money and 386 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: resenting the other person for sharing in the large So 387 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: this is sort of boiling in the background for the 388 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: two of them. Did you say one what did you say? 389 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: One hordes and the other and then the others. How 390 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: does that fit with being angry because they share the 391 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: large ass? How can you be a hoarder? Because all 392 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: he wanted all the assets for himself and he resented 393 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: that she might share. What was rightfully heard? Oh I say, 394 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: I say, I say what she mean, hold on just 395 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: a second, Ray kimpute, did you tell me that he 396 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: immediately leaves the ship and goes to the place of 397 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: wife number three. How many wives did this guy have? Well, 398 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: he did have three wives. Of them he married Mickey 399 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: was his second wife, Nancy. But what's really perplexing is 400 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: he got remarried very quickly after those two had gotten 401 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: a divorce. So this was his third wife, and you know, 402 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: for a while she was helping him, you know, kind 403 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: of being an alibi for him, So she was sticking 404 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: behind him, and you know, appeared like a valid relationship. 405 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: But that third wife was eventually the undoing of Lonnie, 406 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: which is what we later learned. You know, I want 407 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: to go back to what happened. I want you to 408 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Anna Garcia. When Lonnie 409 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: Cacontas met Mickey Kanasaki, he was in a sleete forties, 410 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 1: already once divorced, and an attorney at a prominent Los 411 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: Angeles law firm. She was seven years younger and a 412 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: paralegal at his firm. When the two decided to marry 413 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five. Mickey's brother Tosi says things were 414 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 1: going well until Mickey got winds of an alleged sexual 415 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: encounter between Lonnie and a younger woman. It's all She's 416 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: always thinking about that incident. Not long after that, Tosi says, 417 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: Lonnie lost his job at that big law firm, and 418 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: things went from bad to worse for the couple. His marriage, 419 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: his job, his hand come. They all started going down 420 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: pretty soon. The marriage breaks down completely, with Lonnie and 421 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 1: Mickey filing for divorce. Lonnie moved out of their house 422 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: in Lavera, rant California, and shortly after that, Mary's wife 423 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: number three. Wow, he's certainly been busy. We're talking about 424 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: the death of this beautiful wife. Mickey, Micky, Mary's Lonnie. 425 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,880 Speaker 1: She had been a paralegal. He was a lawyer. Right there, 426 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: I see a power dynamic to doctor Bethany, he's a lawyer, 427 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: she's the paralegal. They get married, and then she finds 428 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: out he's sleeping around. They hadn't been married that long 429 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: when it happened either, Doctor Bethany. Nancy. I was just 430 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: thinking about this and your question about one holding the 431 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: money and having the large est for themselves. What is 432 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: usually a part of that picture is a power differential. 433 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: Maybe somebody marrying somebody from another country where they don't 434 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: know their rights in this particular country. I see this 435 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: in my practice all the time. I see the wealthy 436 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: athlete who gets the fifty million dollar contract he finds. 437 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: You know what, Bethany, you've got some practice going on 438 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: out there. You know to wow, Kathleen Murphy, you're the 439 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: family lawyer. That's certainly a euphemism a family lawyer. It 440 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: sounds like you're all sitting at the family supper table 441 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: having a nice meal talking about the law, and that's 442 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: not what it is at all. Kathy Murphy at nc 443 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: Domestic law dot com. Kathleen, what concerns me this is 444 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: now Defense attorneys will tell you all day long until 445 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: they're blue in the face. It means nothing that he 446 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: left the cruise ship before his wife's body was found 447 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: and snugged up with wife number three. But I have 448 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: a problem with that. You don't even wait to find 449 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: to find your wife's body, Nancy. The situation on this 450 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: case is so unbelievable because this cruise was to reconcile 451 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: their relationships. And one of the things I tell my 452 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: clients all the time is, if you're married, you go 453 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: through a divorce. Come see me to do that pre 454 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: nuptial before you go into your second marriage or before 455 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: you go into your third marriage to avoid these problems. 456 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: Oh oh, I'm in trouble. I didn't do a pre nup. 457 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: Neither did I. I'm not sure who's going to kill 458 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: who though, you know. So as we see this unfolding, 459 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: they're going on the cruise to rekindle their relationship. She 460 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: goes missing, you know, racapeuter. Let me be clear about 461 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: the facts. How did it all go down? Does she 462 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: go missing? They find her body in the water? How 463 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: how was she found? Yeah? Well, Lonnie says that he 464 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: went to bed one night. It was a couple of 465 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: days and the cruise and he had, you know, taken 466 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: an ambient and he said that Mickey wanted to go 467 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: up for a cup of tea. And that's the last 468 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: that he says. He oversay the man at whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Again, 469 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: I've only been on Disney cruises, but they have twenty 470 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: four hour service room service if you want it, and 471 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: of course a children order cheese and crackers and pizza 472 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: at like one o'clock in the morning. Can Harley I know, 473 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: I smell pizza, and that's how I know they've done it. 474 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: So why does she have to leave the room to 475 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: go get a cup of tea? Okay, that's my first question, 476 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: But go ahead, Raycapeuter, thank you for letting me break 477 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: in there. Go ahead right. Well, Well, the next morning, 478 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: Lonnie notices that that she's not even there until he 479 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: reports her missing. James shell nutt Wait, she leaves the 480 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: room to go get a cup of tea. That's like 481 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: being at a hotel in New York City and you 482 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: go downstairs to get a cup of tea instead of 483 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: them bringing it up to room service at midnight, and 484 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: then the husband doesn't notice she's missing till the next morning. 485 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: That's not ringing a red bell of alarm to you 486 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: shall not. Oh, the whole situation is ringing a larm. 487 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: It's thrown up red flex everywhere. I mean, this guy 488 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: now has just turned into really the number one suspect 489 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: if you're an investigator. He's drawn a lot of attention 490 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: to himself. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, we are talking 491 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: about a beautiful woman, Mickey married to Lannica Contes, and 492 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: I want to go straight out to Ray Kaputo, joining us, 493 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: where was her body found? It was really improbable that 494 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: her body was found in the first place, but it 495 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: was essentially floating in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. 496 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: I mean when somebody falls over. A lot of times 497 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: they call these searches off because they're feudal, I mean, 498 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: in such a large area. But it was by chance 499 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 1: that less than two days after she went missing, a 500 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: research vessel finds her body floating and recovers her, which 501 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: was ultimately critical in the case. But it was just 502 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: so improbable that she was found floating basically in the 503 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: middle of the Mediterranean Sea. Her body is found, and 504 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: the cod as I recall, joining me, as you know 505 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: we're now medical examiner doctor Michelle Dupree, was strangulation. Yes, 506 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: after a body has been in the water for that 507 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: period of time, how can you still determine the cod 508 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: well again, as you're absolutely riding pins on the condition 509 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: of the body at the time. But when we look 510 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: at strangulation, particularly manual strangulation, there is a telltale fon 511 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: of something called the highoid bone, and it's that high ah, 512 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: you're making me think of Epstein, that no good piece 513 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: of you know what go ahead highoid bone, that's right here. Yeah. 514 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: So if the only way that that high woid bone 515 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: can get fractured is through manual strangulation, what about ligature, guys. 516 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: Ligature is when you use a rope, or you use 517 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: a twine, or you use wire or a stocking. Manual 518 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: is by hand. There's other asphyxiations as well, like positional 519 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: with your heads like that you can't breathe. But why 520 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: do you say that, doctor Dupree, Because a ligature is 521 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: going to end up in a different place. It doesn't 522 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: have the same amount of for and it's a difference 523 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: why it'll go up exactly. And it's a different mechanical 524 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: mechanism or asphyxiation than asphyxiation by hand. And so again 525 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: that is a tell pal time that we see that 526 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 1: highoid bone fracture. It is the only way you can 527 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: get fracture. It's through trauma of that nature. That's why 528 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: you're the MD. And I'm just a JD right there, 529 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: Rayka Puto, I still say, and of course defense attorneys 530 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: will tell you all day long into the night that 531 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: it means absolutely nothing that this guy you can say 532 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: nothing of him but elbows and tailhole because he's running. 533 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: He can't wait for them to find his wife's botty. 534 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: He's got to get snugged up with wife number three. 535 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: So they find her body. How was she and her 536 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: death linked back to the husband? Well, Nancy, you've got 537 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: somebody who's found in the middle of the ocean, and 538 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: when they figure out that she doesn't have any water 539 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: in her lungs and that she was strangled, and also 540 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: Oliver drew jewelry was on until they rule out robbery, 541 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: they rule out rape. I mean, all fingers are pointing 542 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: back to Lonnie given that financial motive. Now, if they 543 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: didn't have her body, this could have been the perfect crime, Nancy, 544 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: because all of that evidence leads back to Lonnie. But 545 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: without a body, it's just, you know, somebody on a 546 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: ship with two thousand people who goes missing, and there's 547 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: so many different possibilities. So it was critical that they'd 548 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: found her body and all the evidence that came with it. 549 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: Did you see that map, Naples? Sicily, The reality is 550 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: that you're absolutely right, two thousand people on board, it 551 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: could have been anybody. And with his story that she 552 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: leaves at midnight to go get a cup of tea 553 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: fat chance it could have been anyone she encountered en route. 554 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: Guys were talking about cruise ships and murders on cruise ships. Thankfully, 555 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: on Disney hasn't been a murder, So I feel good 556 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: about taking the twins. But when you look at all 557 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: of this evidence, and these are just a few of 558 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: the cases that we're aware of, you know, well, let's 559 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: switch gears and go to Tamara Tucker. Take a listen 560 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: to our friends at KATEC TV five. This is Betsy Webster. 561 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: Tucker loved many things, including travel and beaches. She was 562 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: heading two a beach on the Carnival Elation in January. 563 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: It left Florida for the Bahamas, but before even making 564 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: it to the Caribbean island, Tamara Tucker was dead. A 565 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: Bohemian newspaper reported that she fell to her death two 566 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: floors below her fourteenth deck stateroom balcony. It was January nineteenth, 567 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: two days after her fifty's birthday, and she's like, I'm 568 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: a social worker. Annie Meyer new Tucker only as a neighbor, 569 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: but for ten plus years she recalled kids, band families. 570 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: Tucker cared for visiting Tucker's home for cookouts. A different 571 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: family every time. Tucker taught at Parked You in the 572 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: Social Work program for the past decade. Before that, she 573 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: was program director for the Child Abuse Prevention Association. Meyer 574 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: says Tucker moved away to care for an ailing relative, 575 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: so she'd lost touch and was understandably shocked by the developments. 576 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: It's like something you would read in a mystery story. 577 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: If something happens on a cruise and you don't know. 578 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: You know, when you're on a cruise and a crime occurs, 579 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: there are federal laws to protect you, such as the 580 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: right to have an independent investigator, the right to make 581 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: a complaint, many many rights now in place, and this 582 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: is for US citizens. What happened to yet another young woman? 583 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: Tama Tucker with me an all Star Pa and again 584 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining us straight out 585 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: to Ray Caputo, Lead Morning Anchor, News anchor or Landay 586 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: Morning News ninety six point five w DBO. Ray, this 587 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: woman is in the prime of her life. Have you 588 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: seen the photos of her. She's gorgeous, she's healthy, she's 589 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: got everything to live for. What happened, well, Nancy, this 590 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: this is absolutely crazy. They had boarded the carnival lation 591 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: at Jacksonville to traveling for Kansas, and they weren't on 592 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: this boat more than a matter of hours, and they 593 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: were in their room and this is violent argument breaks out. 594 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: So what what we're hearing is is that Eric Dwayne 595 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 1: Newman had started choking camera with a boyfriend. The boyfriend 596 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: the boyfriend with both hands, okay, and he was choking 597 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: her in such a way on the balcony that he 598 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: ends up pushing her over the balcony and watches her 599 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: fall down two stories to her death. Now, she wasn't 600 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: strangled to death. After they learned it was that fall 601 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: that ends up killing her. You know, to doctor Bethany Marshall, 602 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna follow up with you, James shell Nutt strangulation, 603 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: manual strangulation that doctor g pre just outline for us 604 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: how you can tell the difference between manual strangulation, ligature strangulation, 605 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: positional asphyxiation, smothering. I've always referred to it, along with stabbings, 606 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: as a sweetheart crime. In other words, you have to 607 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: get really up close and personal to the person, like 608 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: Jody Arius and Travis Alenxander. She stabbed him twenty eight 609 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: to twenty nine times before shooting him you're close to 610 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: your victim as you are in manual strangulation, you are 611 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: very typically looking your victim in the face as you 612 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: extinguish their life. That's a whole another mindset, Doctor Bethany Nancy. 613 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: This was a This was a boyfriend who had ongoing 614 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: murderous rage towards his girlfriend. He faced her, He put 615 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: his hands around her neck, all on the balcony, and 616 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: he enjoyed seeing the fear in her eyes. When you 617 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: try to strangle somebody, it is so intimate, so rageful, 618 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: so powerful. You are taking delight in causing them fear 619 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: and threatening them. And he was backing her out over 620 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: the railing. Anthy. She didn't just fall to her death. 621 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,280 Speaker 1: He was torturing and terrifying her during this prolonged assault. 622 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: He was pushing her out over the railing. He was 623 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: watching her kind of dangle. Can you imagine her back worth? 624 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: It is evil, that's just pure evil, looking into her 625 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: eyes as she died. Just for your knowledge, Eric Dwayne 626 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: Newman played guilty to second degree murder and the death 627 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: of his long time girlfriend Tama Tucker. Murders on cruise ships. 628 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: We've outlined three of them for you. We wait as 629 00:37:53,719 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: Justice unfoals Nancy Grace crime story, signing off boyfriend