Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper, he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl
Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been
Speaker 1: on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music.
Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of
Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday,
Speaker 1: we explore the live music venues and culture of a
Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues
Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to
Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen
Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the story
Speaker 1: of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget. He
Speaker 1: was a visionary who built a fortune as a black
Speaker 1: man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not
Speaker 1: many people know about him. He raised sort of wiped out,
Speaker 1: and I want if this was done intentionally. Listen to
Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Today was all about how
Speaker 1: they discovered the final victim and in his body, that's
Speaker 1: Kenneth Roden, and it included a tense confrontation between Kenneth
Speaker 1: Roden's son and the man on trial and accused of
Speaker 1: taking part in the murder of his father six years ago.
Speaker 1: You were going over there to telling what a correct Yeah,
Speaker 1: we went inside. Then that's when we've found out that
Speaker 1: he was deceased. But what are your thoughts about the Whiteners.
Speaker 1: My thoughts about the Wideners. I hope they Yet everything
Speaker 1: comes to this is the Pikes and Massacre returned to
Speaker 1: Pike County season four, episode five, Morning at the Church.
Speaker 1: Im Courtney Armstrong a television producer at Katie Studios with
Speaker 1: Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. Stephanie and I are currently
Speaker 1: in Pike County. All right, so here we are, wrote
Speaker 1: the courthouse in Waverley. The courthouse is not as busy
Speaker 1: as it was when court proceedings began. Now it's mostly
Speaker 1: media and the victim's family members. It's important to note
Speaker 1: that George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial, has pleaded
Speaker 1: not guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone.
Speaker 1: His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also
Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty to all charges. Today's testimony centered around
Speaker 1: the events leading up to the discovery of Kenneth Roden's body.
Speaker 1: He was found by his cousin, Donald Stone, and was
Speaker 1: the last of the victims to be discovered. Here's Donald
Speaker 1: on the stand. How do you know Kenneth Roden Hco
Speaker 1: his mother and my father was brother and sisters. Some
Speaker 1: cousins are close, some aren't. Would you consider yourself to
Speaker 1: have been close to kind of real close? Okay, and
Speaker 1: tell us about that. Just you know, anytime that I
Speaker 1: was down and out, the man was there to help me.
Speaker 1: Their mother fed me when I was young, and they're
Speaker 1: just helpful people. Donald Stone is understandably emotional in the
Speaker 1: witness chair. How did you learn that something had happened
Speaker 1: up on Union Hill Road? Well, I was a herd
Speaker 1: appointment that morning. I had talked to gentlemen while I
Speaker 1: was there and he asked me if I heard what
Speaker 1: happened on Union Hill And I got word that there
Speaker 1: was some people meeting at a church. So you went
Speaker 1: to the church on Union Hill Road? And who I
Speaker 1: was there? It's just there was a lot of people there.
Speaker 1: Family may nervous, a lot of people there. Okay. At
Speaker 1: what point did you learn how many had been killed
Speaker 1: on Union Hill Road? Actually I hadn't known at the
Speaker 1: time how many there were. For sure. You indicated that
Speaker 1: you tried to call Kenneth at one time and that
Speaker 1: was from your home after that appointment, Yes, okay. Did
Speaker 1: you personally ever try to call Kenneth after that? Yes, well,
Speaker 1: when I tried to make the phone calls, I did
Speaker 1: try to call him once. Okay. And while you were
Speaker 1: at the church, did there become some concerns about Kenneth
Speaker 1: not responding to phone calls? Yeah, okay. And can you
Speaker 1: tell us did you decide to go to Kenneth at
Speaker 1: some point? Yeah. We was at the church and Luke
Speaker 1: mentioned that he wanted to go to his dad's place,
Speaker 1: and he asked me if I wanted to go, and
Speaker 1: we went. Here's Stephanie and I speaking about the testimony
Speaker 1: thus far. It's pretty powerful to be there. I also
Speaker 1: didn't realize that Donald Stone was not alone when he
Speaker 1: discovered Kenneth's body. I didn't realize Kenneth's son, Luke, was
Speaker 1: also present. I didn't know that either. I didn't know
Speaker 1: that either until today. How painful that must have been. Next,
Speaker 1: Antrew Kneppa begins the difficult process of walking the cousins
Speaker 1: through the discovery of Kenneth Rowden's body. Here again, Donald Stone,
Speaker 1: we'll get out there. We got Alicore. We walked up
Speaker 1: to the door man Luke, and once we got to
Speaker 1: the door, I told you MOSI, this is your head's place.
Speaker 1: You need to go in. First we walked into the
Speaker 1: supposedly the living room, and I noticed to the right,
Speaker 1: I didn't see him in there nowhere, So I've seen
Speaker 1: a stairway to the right, and I walked up the
Speaker 1: stairway and as we found him a fairy and he's
Speaker 1: a bid And when you say you found him, can
Speaker 1: you tell us what condition you found him in? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but o resides and where was he located? And he's mad,
Speaker 1: he's dead. Was it just you that walked up those
Speaker 1: stairs and saw Kenneth. Yes, it was significant, just being
Speaker 1: in the courtroom and being close to family members. Kenneth
Speaker 1: Rowden is one of the victims that we really have
Speaker 1: known the least about. We know that he's a father,
Speaker 1: we know that he lived by himself, and that he
Speaker 1: was extremely close with Chris Senior. Seeing these crime scene
Speaker 1: photos it was pretty excruciating. I believe what struck me
Speaker 1: so much in the courtroom is it's cliche, but how
Speaker 1: very different it is seeing these actual photos versus anything
Speaker 1: you see when you watch TV or a movie. Just
Speaker 1: the stark lack of life and these photos was so
Speaker 1: impactful and felt so permanent. We were sitting just feet
Speaker 1: away from Kenneth's family members and for them I cannot
Speaker 1: imagine how excruciating it was for them to have to
Speaker 1: see that and imagine being Luke, this is his father.
Speaker 1: He had to see his father's body and this was
Speaker 1: a violent crime. So the trauma that they've been through
Speaker 1: just seeing a dead body, let alone of somebody you
Speaker 1: love so deeply, and for them to have to get
Speaker 1: up there and relive it step by step by step,
Speaker 1: the bravery it took, I don't know that I would
Speaker 1: be able to find that level of courage. Because Donald
Speaker 1: Stone identified the body, Caneppa had no choice but to
Speaker 1: have him relive the dramatic events through crime scene photos
Speaker 1: showing you what's been marked as one who will back
Speaker 1: to Do you recognize that photo? Yes? And can you
Speaker 1: tell us what you recognize that? As you live? He
Speaker 1: breaks down here and grabs more tissues. Caneppa, knowing this
Speaker 1: is horrible, prefaces each question with an apology. Sorry, and
Speaker 1: is that how he saw Kenneth Lyne in his bed.
Speaker 1: You entered that d way, which is two of us.
Speaker 1: Mister Stone, can you look at that? I'm sorry, what
Speaker 1: do you recognize that as? And is that how you
Speaker 1: saw him on that day? Yes? And you indicated that
Speaker 1: he had just that imagine recollection of the blood that
Speaker 1: you saw him he is Okay. Here's James Pilcher, longtime
Speaker 1: investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with Local twelve. Everybody knows
Speaker 1: in Pike County how these people died. I would say
Speaker 1: they are trying to shock the jury at this point
Speaker 1: with the violence of it, for sure, because they showed
Speaker 1: the pictures of people dead in their beds or on
Speaker 1: the floor time and time and time again. The trial
Speaker 1: is reopening wounds that may have only just begun to heal.
Speaker 1: Traveling with us as investigative journalist Jeff Winkler, who you'll
Speaker 1: remember from previous seasons. It was his article about the
Speaker 1: Rodent family that first peaked her interest in the case.
Speaker 1: He's joined us for several trips to Pike County over
Speaker 1: the years. I think that's the weirdest thing is going
Speaker 1: into the courthouse as the trial is going and starting
Speaker 1: for George and the families still there, still grieving, still
Speaker 1: having the same kind of grief and trauma. Then seeing
Speaker 1: the family having just basically stuck in time of pain.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine, though, the level of grief and despair
Speaker 1: even just to have to sit there and look at
Speaker 1: these photos, which I might dad were pretty graphic and
Speaker 1: we've never actually seen those before. I think that's what
Speaker 1: struck me walking in there today was just the I mean,
Speaker 1: it's been six years, you know, Yeah, so you've got
Speaker 1: the core warners and the core folks in the middle
Speaker 1: of the trauma. Everyone else's golf. I thought it was
Speaker 1: also interesting to finally see the matriarch of the Rodin family.
Speaker 1: She's Chris Senior's mother and the grandmother therefore of Hannahmey Roden,
Speaker 1: Chris Junior Roden, Frankie Rodin, and I believe then her
Speaker 1: grandson would also be Luke. Chris and Kenneth were her sons,
Speaker 1: which yes, would make Luke her grandson. I was so
Speaker 1: sad for Geneva Roden because I looked over at one
Speaker 1: point and there were just some horrific crime scene photos
Speaker 1: being shown. Here's reporter A Jeanette Levy, who was also
Speaker 1: present in the courtroom, and Geneva Roden was consoling her
Speaker 1: daughters who were sobbing. She was sobbing. They were kind
Speaker 1: of consoling one another and just understandably falling apart having
Speaker 1: to see photos of their loved ones murdered and what
Speaker 1: is just an unbelievable amount of blood in some instances. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Kenneth Roden's son Luke, had also caught wind of the
Speaker 1: murders on the morning of April twenty second, twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: Here he is testifying alone came into my bedroom and
Speaker 1: said that I needed to get up then Chris and
Speaker 1: everybody get out there shot up on the hill. Luke
Speaker 1: Roden is an imposing man with a beard and short
Speaker 1: brown hair. He wears a blue shirt. Luke is poised
Speaker 1: and speaks in a very matter of fact manner. As
Speaker 1: new spread around town of the murders, Luke tried to
Speaker 1: make his way to his uncle, Chris Senior's house, but
Speaker 1: police had already cordoned off the road. And then do
Speaker 1: you know how you knew to go to the church
Speaker 1: someone who came on last night that they all meet
Speaker 1: never urge while you were trying to get through there, right,
Speaker 1: They informed you to go to the church. People were
Speaker 1: gathering at the church. Yeah, Luke found Donald Stone, his
Speaker 1: father's cousin and best friend, at the church. During this time.
Speaker 1: Do you make any attempts to contact your father? Yes,
Speaker 1: try to contact about a dozen times. Never seen anything
Speaker 1: back from him. Okay, is that normal? Okay? At that
Speaker 1: point do you get concerned? Yes? Here again James Pilcher.
Speaker 1: Both of them talked about the chaos and all of
Speaker 1: the things that were happening when they didn't know where
Speaker 1: Ken was. They couldn't get a touch with him. The
Speaker 1: prosecution even showed a picture of the cell phone that
Speaker 1: Ken would put in his window to try to give
Speaker 1: a reception. And he went down to your dad's What
Speaker 1: did you do when you got there? I've seen on driveway,
Speaker 1: so I'll get out. Special Prosecutor Angi Kneppa shows Luke
Speaker 1: and the jury various exterior photos of Kenneth's property. There
Speaker 1: is an abandoned boat on one side of the driveway entrance.
Speaker 1: Nestled back in the woods are two trailers and an outbuilding.
Speaker 1: It's April, so there are no leaves on the trees,
Speaker 1: but you can imagine it's pretty secluded. Once things are
Speaker 1: in bloom. Kneppa spends nearly thirty minutes dissecting each photo
Speaker 1: for the jury. Reporter James Pilcher noted the level of
Speaker 1: detail on the part of the prosecution. I don't mean
Speaker 1: this is a criticism towards a prosecution, because they gotta
Speaker 1: do what they gotta do. But this is going extremely,
Speaker 1: extremely slowly. It feels like they're trying to kill a
Speaker 1: gnat with a ten pound sledge. They're pulling out every
Speaker 1: single piece of evidence they have for every single possible
Speaker 1: question that could come up. This trial has slowed to
Speaker 1: a snail space. On cross examination, the defense questions Luke
Speaker 1: Roden about a local whose name we have heard come
Speaker 1: up in our investigation, Big Money Mike. Can tell us
Speaker 1: didn't tell you I've heard his name, book, didn't tell
Speaker 1: you who he is. You've heard his name from? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't hear about it until everything has happened, so
Speaker 1: I can Stephanie and Jeff. In Luke Roden's testimony, he
Speaker 1: made it clear that he hadn't heard the name Big
Speaker 1: Money Mike until after the murders and didn't know how
Speaker 1: it related to his family members being murdered. I'm curious
Speaker 1: where the prosecution is leading to, because it's come up
Speaker 1: now twice. We started doing our own digging about big
Speaker 1: Money Mike, and we have to assume that that stands
Speaker 1: for Michael Moran. He is the attorney that has since
Speaker 1: died that we covered pretty extensively in season two and
Speaker 1: he had a very checkered past. Maybe that's him, but
Speaker 1: again we don't know for sure. This is just another
Speaker 1: example of the prosecution building a narrative that we're not
Speaker 1: totally sure where it will lead until they rest. Andrew
Speaker 1: Knapa asked Luke about what happened after he and Donald
Speaker 1: Stone entered his father's home. No, he stamped up in
Speaker 1: there and looked a ramp path me and told me
Speaker 1: to get out like he'd been shock. He told he
Speaker 1: had been shot, he said, but all over his face.
Speaker 1: When you were inside of your dad's home, did you
Speaker 1: step up at all into his bedroom. I don't believe
Speaker 1: I stand up doing his bedroom. I may stepped on
Speaker 1: the step right there. Maybe No, I don't believe I
Speaker 1: stepped into the bedroom. Okay, were you able to see
Speaker 1: any part of him from where you were? I able
Speaker 1: to see his leg and at the top of his
Speaker 1: head and the blanket was actually placed like he has
Speaker 1: been placed. Ony, Okay, there was a blanket on him, right, Okay?
Speaker 1: Were you able to see his face at that time
Speaker 1: at all? Now? I just see his forehead and his hair.
Speaker 1: At this point, Conepa asked Luke about the money that
Speaker 1: was found on Kenneth's body. I seem probably, I don't
Speaker 1: know how much, but like a few ones and fives
Speaker 1: and something like that, some money, paper money, and his
Speaker 1: parents was laying there beside it. Here's Stephanie and Jeff Winkler.
Speaker 1: We always sort of had heard that he had almost
Speaker 1: like there was money thrown all over his body. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a rolled up dollar bill and some change,
Speaker 1: That's all. It wasn't there wasn't money lying everywhere. We
Speaker 1: always maybe thought that was such an interesting crime scene
Speaker 1: and very different than the others, and maybe that was
Speaker 1: a way of making it look like a hit, or
Speaker 1: like it look like the cartel had done it. It
Speaker 1: was a good reminder that in those first you know,
Speaker 1: first forty eight hours or whatever, of just pure speculation,
Speaker 1: that's hard enough to beat, but then these little bits
Speaker 1: of fantasy, hitch on for a rod and don't let go.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a break. We'll be back in
Speaker 1: a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a
Speaker 1: podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most
Speaker 1: eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he
Speaker 1: did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He was
Speaker 1: perfect on paper. But he wasn't. He really wasn't, he
Speaker 1: shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie
Speaker 1: about anything, but only takes the one time when somebody
Speaker 1: ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how
Speaker 1: to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime.
Speaker 1: He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest
Speaker 1: with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit
Speaker 1: on him. I would call him and I would say,
Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. I will always hound
Speaker 1: you and haunt you. You can listen to The Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whitney hell is going on here.
Speaker 1: Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral
Speaker 1: thing a line they won't cross. I was stunned and
Speaker 1: I just said, no, we're killing people. You may never
Speaker 1: have to face that decision when you find yourself at
Speaker 1: that line. Its ricin, arn't ricin, And somebody needs to
Speaker 1: just for once give everybody the whole truth, like this
Speaker 1: is evil and the only person who can sound the
Speaker 1: alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently.
Speaker 1: Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you
Speaker 1: are disloyal, things are going to happen to out disgrace
Speaker 1: through our gun people. Pay should be prosecute when power corrupts,
Speaker 1: conscience is the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox.
Speaker 1: I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of The Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show. You may remember my award winning first season.
Speaker 1: I've been pretty busy. There's always time to touch incredible
Speaker 1: guests about important things. People like me have been screaming
Speaker 1: for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. What
Speaker 1: they're doing is wrong. What they're doing is evil, They
Speaker 1: will take things away, and I can only hope that
Speaker 1: Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, you and
Speaker 1: I both know what it took to just get through
Speaker 1: the day in New York City and get home in
Speaker 1: one piece. And so the fact that we're here and
Speaker 1: what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous.
Speaker 1: It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. The
Speaker 1: only reason that you might think, as Chase said, that
Speaker 1: we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us
Speaker 1: and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox
Speaker 1: Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share How
Speaker 1: Rude Tanta Ritos is the Full House rewatch podcast you've
Speaker 1: been waiting for. Each week, get together with iconic characters
Speaker 1: Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler, also known as actresses Jody
Speaker 1: Sweeten and Andrea Barber, as they team up to relive
Speaker 1: every episode of your favorite Friday night comfort show. We
Speaker 1: spent our entire childhoods on a little show called Full House,
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Speaker 1: moment with you, and we'll be joined by our Full
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Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio Appicable podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: For most of the morning, George Wagner the fourth, it's
Speaker 1: motionless looking down. This is true, especially during Donald Stone's
Speaker 1: emotional testimony. George Wagner finally makes eye contact when questions
Speaker 1: turned to his family. Luke only had brief interactions with
Speaker 1: the Wagners over the years, but one with Billy stuck
Speaker 1: out in his memory. I was out at his property
Speaker 1: one time. It was the one that pretty far off
Speaker 1: the grid, and my dad and Chris learning the backau
Speaker 1: for him to do something, and backhead went the star.
Speaker 1: So he got a hold of my dad and Chris.
Speaker 1: They brought some tarps and space heater and all that
Speaker 1: didn't get the back. I warmed up in order to
Speaker 1: get us started. I was standing there on the trailer
Speaker 1: and he was named beside me, look at me, he said,
Speaker 1: he's top. He said, there's some really good people. He
Speaker 1: said that if Air had to funk with him, that
Speaker 1: they had to shoot him. If they ever had what
Speaker 1: mess with him, if he had had a tussle with him, whatever,
Speaker 1: he had had to shoot him. Did he explain why
Speaker 1: that was or did he say anything more? That was it,
Speaker 1: But he was telling you they were really great people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: First right at the end of his testimony, Luke was
Speaker 1: asked to point out George by both the prosecution and
Speaker 1: the defense. Mister present today. Yes, you have so many
Speaker 1: points where he's sitting, he described. First one, he's weird
Speaker 1: him right there. The best one changed appearance was at all.
Speaker 1: Yes he has Wait wise, he was much larger when
Speaker 1: you last saw him. Right, Yes, here again, Stephanie. I
Speaker 1: was struck just by seeing George Wagner in person, having
Speaker 1: never seen him before. In person, he was slighter than
Speaker 1: I imagined him being. He's got good, a little ball
Speaker 1: going on, you know, boots are shined, just kind of
Speaker 1: looks regular, which is not what you you know, they're
Speaker 1: supposed to have some sort of like dark glow around them. Right.
Speaker 1: Media covering the trial immediately latched onto the story. Luca
Speaker 1: told about his interaction with Billy Wagner, the son of
Speaker 1: one of the Pike County massacre victims, testified Billy Wagner's
Speaker 1: right in the road and family four or five years
Speaker 1: before the actual shootings. Luke said that while his dad
Speaker 1: and uncle were doing a good deed for Billy Wagner,
Speaker 1: Billy told Luke that a dust up between the three
Speaker 1: of them would not end well. After kenep as well
Speaker 1: planned line of questioning of Luke crowdon George's defense attorney
Speaker 1: has very little to add. He rests within minutes here again,
Speaker 1: James Pilcher. Clearly they are cutting off any opportunity for
Speaker 1: the defense to ask, well, why didn't you ask this,
Speaker 1: Why didn't you do that? Why didn't you this? Now
Speaker 1: the defense is still trying to find its way to
Speaker 1: do that. The final witness of the day illustrates the
Speaker 1: prosecution strategy perfectly. Brett Hatfield was a friend and co
Speaker 1: worker of Kenneth Rod's. He opts out of media coverage,
Speaker 1: but we were there to follow his testimony. Brett Hatfield
Speaker 1: worked in Columbus at the same company as Kenneth, so
Speaker 1: the pair very often car pool together. However, on the
Speaker 1: morning of April twenty second, twenty sixteen, they didn't, and
Speaker 1: when Hatfield arrived at Kenneth's home, probably around four am
Speaker 1: the morning of April twenty second, he said there were
Speaker 1: no lights on and that Kenneth's did income to the
Speaker 1: door as he normally did. It turns out that the
Speaker 1: day before, Hatfield said that Kenneth had complaining of high
Speaker 1: blood pressure, a condition that Luke explains sometimes made him
Speaker 1: sick and could cause him to miss work. So despite
Speaker 1: Kenneth's car being in the lot, Hatfield assumed that maybe
Speaker 1: somebody picked him up and took him to the hospital,
Speaker 1: so he just left. James Pilcher, he came and saw
Speaker 1: Kenneth all the time, so you put him up on
Speaker 1: the sand. They're going incrementally chronologically, and I think they're
Speaker 1: feeling in their way as they go through this trial.
Speaker 1: To let the jury know, we took every step to
Speaker 1: interview everybody we could. Legal analyst Mike Allen, who's speaking
Speaker 1: with Jeff, agrees, it just tells the story here. This
Speaker 1: poor guy, you know, he wants to pick up his
Speaker 1: buddy to drive to Columbus to go to work, but
Speaker 1: he's not there. That's something that's pretty strong and I
Speaker 1: know the prosecution what the jury hear that. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: definitely paints a picture, and that's what they need to do.
Speaker 1: That's what they're doing. Hours after Hatfield left Kenneth Rowden's
Speaker 1: trailer that morning, a member of the road and family
Speaker 1: called to tell him about the murders. Hatfield immediately left
Speaker 1: work in Columbus and returned to Piketon. Here's Luke Rowden.
Speaker 1: Did he arrive at some point? Yes, he did. Whenever
Speaker 1: we're sitting our way on the cops to come and
Speaker 1: all that, he showed up on his four waller and
Speaker 1: just there's like a scamer my dad's property behind his
Speaker 1: trailer and stuff like that. Okay, and do you know
Speaker 1: what he was looking for at the time, cameras see
Speaker 1: if the camera was still arounced to see if there
Speaker 1: was any footage or less. Okay, many of the cameras
Speaker 1: were missing. The prosecution asked him about Kenneth's dog, Brownie.
Speaker 1: Earlier in the day, both Luke Roden and Donald Stone
Speaker 1: testified the dog was inside the trailer when they arrived,
Speaker 1: but Hatfield adds a very telling detail about the dog
Speaker 1: here again Stephanie and Jeff. Interesting about Brownie is that
Speaker 1: Hatfield says the dog would bite anybody, didn't matter who
Speaker 1: you were unless you called the dog by name. And
Speaker 1: that's interesting because it was reported that the Wagoners didn't
Speaker 1: have any dog bites on them whatsoever, So why didn't
Speaker 1: Brownie attack so step That says to me that it
Speaker 1: seems pretty likely that whoever was there that night must
Speaker 1: have known the dog by name. And keep in mind
Speaker 1: that we have heard from numerous people that many of
Speaker 1: the road and properties had dogs like this on them,
Speaker 1: so that would be indicative that whoever was at all
Speaker 1: of these crime scenes knew all of the dogs. In theory,
Speaker 1: Hatfield added yet another chilling detail to the timeline of
Speaker 1: April twenty sixteen. He said that when he found out
Speaker 1: about the murders, he tried calling everyone in the Rodent family.
Speaker 1: He even sent a DM to Hannah May on social media, who,
Speaker 1: as we know, was tragically already dead. Hatfield said that
Speaker 1: he never got a response, but he did get a
Speaker 1: notification that the message was read. So what does that mean?
Speaker 1: I would imagine after the murder, the killers were probably
Speaker 1: cleaning up or figuring out what to do, and her
Speaker 1: phone was pinging and to silence that maybe they looked
Speaker 1: at it or opened the text message and shut it down.
Speaker 1: All we know is that Hotfield sent a message after
Speaker 1: she was already murdered, and somebody read that message, and
Speaker 1: it could not have been Hannah May Rodin We know
Speaker 1: that it's come up that Jake Wagner took several phones
Speaker 1: from the crime scenes and allegedly destroyed them the next day.
Speaker 1: Is this one of those phones? And think about this?
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being Jake Wagner and you're literally reading
Speaker 1: a text on the phone of the mother of your
Speaker 1: baby who you just murder, and you have enough wherewithal
Speaker 1: to potentially check her phone and read her texts. With
Speaker 1: the trial underway, the Rodent family is inching towards closure,
Speaker 1: but not before some wounds are reopened for all the
Speaker 1: world to see. Let's stop here for another break. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she
Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes
Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Fortunately for Bob,
Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him
Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put
Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw
Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call
Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister.
Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can
Speaker 1: listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whitney
Speaker 1: hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd
Speaker 1: never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it
Speaker 1: was just a really terrible, immoral thing a line they
Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned and I just said, no,
Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that
Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin.
Speaker 1: R's ricin, and somebody needs to just for once give
Speaker 1: everybody the whole truth. I'm like, this is evil and
Speaker 1: the only person who can sound the alarm is you.
Speaker 1: I wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 1: These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, thinks are
Speaker 1: going to happen to this week out disgrace to our gun.
Speaker 1: Evil pol be prosecute when power corrupts. Conscience is the
Speaker 1: last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the
Speaker 1: Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People
Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to
Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong. What
Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away, and
Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl
Speaker 1: Harbor moment or you and I both know what it
Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York
Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what
Speaker 1: I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting
Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you
Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is
Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure
Speaker 1: to subscribe and share. She's a Hollywood Western She's Jack Harrouac,
Speaker 1: but in a nap dress with braids. She is one
Speaker 1: of the most important American children's authors of the twentieth century.
Speaker 1: She's the basis for a television show still watched around
Speaker 1: the world. Somebody somewhere is watching Little Us There. She's
Speaker 1: been called a hero, a racist, a feminist, and a propagandist.
Speaker 1: I think the harm is too great because It's just
Speaker 1: one more thing that Native children have to endure. She
Speaker 1: is Laura Ingles Wilder, author of the book series Little
Speaker 1: House on the Prairie. As a kid, I idolized Laura,
Speaker 1: and last summer I went on the road in search
Speaker 1: of the real Laura. We're literally on the prairie. What
Speaker 1: I found was a complicated person alongside the complicated country
Speaker 1: she represents. I'm Glennis McNicol and this is Wilder. Listen
Speaker 1: to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. After court adjourned for the day,
Speaker 1: Luke was interviewed on the courthouse steps. Luke, what was
Speaker 1: it like to be on the witness standing now racking,
Speaker 1: seeing the photos and stuff and bringing the past up
Speaker 1: and their thing is really horror my mental state. And
Speaker 1: Geneva's your grandmother right correct? Talk about how this is
Speaker 1: an effect that we've seen her crying or just talking
Speaker 1: about her in the whole family house is effected. She
Speaker 1: and went there a lot, and I wish you never
Speaker 1: had to go through any of this. She's lost children
Speaker 1: at a young age and and now she's deale with
Speaker 1: all her other children and her grandchildren murdered, and I
Speaker 1: think everything's getting closer to the end. I can't wait
Speaker 1: tillabor really, so rest of our family go on with
Speaker 1: our lives and I can't imagine. Can you even put
Speaker 1: it into words? Whatever's like or a s nightmare? Living
Speaker 1: in hell? Really? What are your thoughts about the Wageners?
Speaker 1: My thoughts about the Wideners. I hope they get everything
Speaker 1: comes to them. When you examine that hat, did you
Speaker 1: find would you believed to be a bullet hole in
Speaker 1: the back of it? Yes, both sides agreed the traces
Speaker 1: of Gary Rowden's blood were found on the door knob,
Speaker 1: but not of the Wagoners. That seemed to make the
Speaker 1: case for the defense. None of the evidence collected we're
Speaker 1: examined with respect to that scene contained any DNA that
Speaker 1: was linked to George Wagner, this defendant, Jake Wagner, Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: or Billy Wager. When are they all going to tie
Speaker 1: this together? When are they going to point to George
Speaker 1: being part of this conspiracy? Because none of the physical
Speaker 1: evidence presented so far hid any of the Wagoners to
Speaker 1: any of these crime scenes. I can tell you the
Speaker 1: prosecutors are telling us behind the scenes it's coming. It's coming.
Speaker 1: It's coming that we're all going to tie it together.
Speaker 1: We're starting to see threads of it. Blade More on
Speaker 1: that next time. For more information on the case and
Speaker 1: elevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Scott DeGraw, Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and
Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff ta Music by Jared Aston. The
Speaker 1: Piked and Masaker is a production of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and
Speaker 1: it is time to find a husband. There were four
Speaker 1: Jewish doctors who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One
Speaker 1: of them was of the Baron bat On paper, he
Speaker 1: was perfect, but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He
Speaker 1: choked and to the point she went unconscious. I would
Speaker 1: call him and I would say, I know you killed
Speaker 1: my sister. You can Listen to the Girlfriends on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm free and I'm rthy. We have spent the last
Speaker 1: twenty years building and working at some of the largest
Speaker 1: companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people
Speaker 1: Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I
Speaker 1: grew up exactly like them. Check out the Arth and
Speaker 1: Tree Arm show. That is a R D HI hand
Speaker 1: s R I R A M show. Listen to the
Speaker 1: Art and Stree Arm Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcast This is the
Speaker 1: story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was
Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name you don't forget.
Speaker 1: He was a visionary who built a fortune as a
Speaker 1: black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, but today
Speaker 1: not many people know about him. Be rased, sort of
Speaker 1: wiped out, and I wonder if this was done intentionally.
Speaker 1: Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will daily.
Speaker 1: For years, I've been on the road playing shows and
Speaker 1: seeing America through live music this summer, I'll hit the
Speaker 1: stage who Season two of Sound of Our Town ten cities,
Speaker 1: twelve episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live music,
Speaker 1: venues and culture of a new American city. With each
Speaker 1: new episode, our tour continues into the kind of venues
Speaker 1: you want to get to when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver,
Speaker 1: or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.