WEBVTT - How to Survive Digital Media with Kin Community's Michael Wayne 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:10.320 Welcome to another episode of the Variety podcast Strictly Business, 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:12.560 where we talk to some of the brightest minds working 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.040 in the media business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein, co editor 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:19.840 in chief of Variety. There's no shortage of digital content 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.160 companies these days trying to carve out audiences for themselves, 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.640 but few have innovated the sector's business models as much 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.320 as Kin Community and it's co founder and CEO, Michael Wayne, 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.479 my next guest. The talent he works with, for one thing, 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.919 isn't just the usual digital native stars, and the revenue 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:43.160 isn't just cuts of advertising and subscription dollars. Michael, thanks 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.199 for coming in. Let's let's walk through some of the 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.520 different things that you're doing. And but first just explain 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:53.040 what Kin is, the brand, the demographic you got it. 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:56.600 Thanks for having me, Andy, pleasure to be here. Kin 0:00:56.920 --> 0:01:01.400 is a lifestyle entertainment company, simply put, So what does 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.000 that mean exactly? What we do A number of things. Uh, 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:10.400 we have a studio that produces content. We have, like 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:16.720 you mentioned, a network of digitally native influencers. We have 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:25.000 owned and operated channels. Uh. That exists across YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Prime, Twitter, 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.200 pretty much every social platform. The newest part of our business, 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.800 which we launched about a year ago, is working with 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:37.640 more traditional TV talent like a timor Um who who 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.120 do we know Tia from? Yeah. Timre Is is a 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.160 good example of the type of talent we're working with. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:44.960 She had a show in the late nineties called Sister Sister. 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.120 It was a big show, was on ABC, she and 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.440 her twin sister, tamoraw uh. And then since then she 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.840 has had a really broad career in entertainment. She was 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.720 on a show on E with her sister. She had 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.520 multiple shows on the network. She's had a cookbook. She's 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.040 done a lot of different things, but but a lot 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.440 of which is in the women's lifestyle space. Uh. And 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.399 she was pitched to us a couple of years ago 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.640 by U t A. And at that point in our 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.040 company's history, we hadn't really worked with traditional TV talent. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.680 We were focused early on on working with bloggers and 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.480 then YouTubers and instagrammers. But there was something interesting about 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.639 her one the fact that she was more or less 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.760 a household name. She had been in the public consciousness 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:32.200 for twenty years. She had twelve million social followers um 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.160 and she was very passionate about women's lifestyle. So we 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:36.960 kind of scratched her head and said, you know, maybe 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.800 we've gotten to the point in time where the distance 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.040 between a digitally native social influencer and a TV personality 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.880 who has large social following, but also connects directly with 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.760 an audience, UH, isn't very far apart. Maybe maybe these 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:53.840 kind of ships are starting to pass in the night. 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.000 So we said, what if we started a new own 0:02:56.040 --> 0:03:00.440 and operated channel where she was the focus of it. 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:04.000 And we created a brand called Timris Quick Fix, and 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.640 we launched it simultaneously on YouTube and Facebook and Instagram 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.760 and Amazon Prime. And that was almost a year ago 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.640 and it's been extremely successful. So she's the model for 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.079 what you're she is. We we still have a studio 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.200 business that produces channels like Tmris Quick Fix, as well 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.160 as working with brands to do brand content. We still 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.200 have a great network of digitally native influencers, but we 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.160 are now building the Kin network, which we've called recently 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.480 a neighborhood, which we can talk about why we're calling 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.760 it a neighborhood, but um of really like minded talent. 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.680 So we have since launched now five channels in this model. 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.120 The tmri E quick fix model, and we plan on 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.480 launching We'll have seven by the end of the year 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.880 and hopefully next year. By the end of two thousand nineteen, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:53.960 about twenty of these channels driven by traditional TV talent. 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.760 So what was wrong with the model that was more 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.120 based on the traditional influencer You've got eyes were pretty 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.560 active on that front for quite a while. We are 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.520 that that space has changed pretty dramatically since we got 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.560 involved in it. Um described that change. Yeah, I think 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.120 I think it goes back even before the YouTubers. So 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.920 when we started our company was in what year which 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.400 was two thousand seven, which is like the nineteenth century 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:27.000 for incial media. But we started the company in two 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.479 thousand and seven, and we always had the idea of 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:34.000 building brands I P video brands if you will. Back then, 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.920 uh talent. We we had this belief that we wanted 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.320 to work with digitally native talent. But in two thousand seven, 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.480 that meant bloggers. Because there's really really at the very 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:49.200 beginning of YouTube in general, so the whole social influencer 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.839 thing hadn't really started from a video standpoint, but bloggers, Uh, 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.880 we're kind of the social influencer of of that time. 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.360 So we were doing video series working with bloggers, and 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.600 we learned a lot back then. One that blogging is 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.000 very different than video. Two. At the time, there weren't 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.800 a lot of video platforms. In fact, that that time, 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.600 YouTube was just doing user generated content, so we didn't 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.440 even really think of it as a as as a 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:20.200 video platform like we do today. Um we created websites 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.440 so that people could come watch these video series in 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.040 two thousand eight, and that's really hard to get people 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:27.920 to a website to watch video, let alone just get 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.560 them to a website. Period. Brands weren't quite ready to 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.680 do all that. But but what we did learn back 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.880 then was that when you have open platforms that you 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.760 can very quickly commoditize talent. So we were working with 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.520 the best bloggers at the time, the best mom bloggers, 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.960 the best food bloggers, but we were What we were 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:54.599 seeing is that large blog networks were forming and pretty 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.880 much anyone who throw up a blog was part of 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.920 a blog network. And that created a lot of problems 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.359 because all of a sudden, the ad dollars had to 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.560 be spread around not hundreds of bloggers, but thousands, tens 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.320 of that millions of bloggers. It was hard to navigate 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.200 what are the good bloggers, what are the bad bloggers. 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.440 It just got very crowded very quickly, and very commoditized, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:16.640 and we were like, oh, we don't we don't want 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.480 to do that. That's not interesting for us. So when 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:24.480 YouTube started really getting behind their their stars, their creators, 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.919 we kind of realized and actually make our studio and 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.040 folks like that started aggregating tens of thousands of channels 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.320 we got. We we had some pause there because we 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.280 had seen what it looked like in the blog space, 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.600 and so we said, hey, if we're going to curate 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.200 a network, let's make sure it's the biggest and the 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:46.360 best uh channels in our categories, which were food and 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.520 home and d I y and style and beauty and 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.000 things like that. So we only focused on about a 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:56.800 hundred YouTubers at the time, and for a few years 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.240 we were the place where brands would come to work 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.440 with those influencers. But as you know, in fact I 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.479 wrote an op ed pe or an opinion piece for 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.159 Variety many years ago about the problems with with the space. 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.680 It got also very crowded very quickly. Lots of um 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:19.560 other you know, the market was flooded with YouTubers, agents, managers, MCNs, 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.360 social influencer networks that could go on and on. All 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.120 started to figure out that there was a growing business 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:27.560 here and they wanted to get in the middle of it. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.360 So we we realized probably a few years ago that 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.560 this was going to get pretty crowded pretty quickly, and 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.080 realized that UM also at the end of the day, 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.720 we didn't We don't own our influencers channels. They own it, 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.240 So we are in a sense, Uh, it's almost like 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.200 a manager or an agent to them. And that's really 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.120 never why we got in the business in the first place. 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.200 We wanted to be a content business that owns I 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:57.200 P and that builds video brands, and so it's still 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:01.360 a part of our business, but uh, it's not uh 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.720 the growing and most valuable part of our business. I 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.480 would say it is. It is, Uh, it is one 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.960 of many parts of our business. So you're working with 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.880 a higher level of talent. What kind of deals can 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.520 you offer them, because I would assume they've got options. 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:18.160 It's a it's a great question. So I think the 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:22.360 interesting part of our model right now is that while 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:29.840 digital influencers were building their brands, UM everyone started building 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.520 their social as well. That you me variety uh a 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.520 TV talent, And over the last five years, you've seen 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:41.439 a lot of TV talent build social followings as big 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.760 as a YouTuber and Instagram who started as digital native, right. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.439 But there's a little bit different to someone who's built 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.640 the last twenty years or ten years of their career 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:57.240 being a TV star. One. They probably aren't likely to 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.160 want to pick up their iPhone and start shooting videos 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:04.360 every week and putting it on YouTube. That's probably not likely, uh, 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.280 what they're gonna want to do. Um. They might not 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.800 want to hire a whole production team also to come 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:13.600 out every week and spend the money on doing a show. Um. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:15.800 They want it probably to look really good. They've been 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.040 on TV their whole career, they've gotten to a level 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:22.800 of success. They probably want content that's going to look 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:24.480 as good, if not better than what they've been doing 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.839 on TV. They also probably don't want to build a 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.720 whole data and strategy team and become experts on how 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.920 these platforms work day in and day out. So as 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.640 we've talked to UH some of the more traditional talent, 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:41.480 what we find is there they've been successful on television. 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.280 They've built large social followings, but then taking the next 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.880 step into video isn't so easy. They're not just going 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.640 to start from scratch like a YouTuber might have UM 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.960 who made YouTube kind of their primary career, if you will. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.240 So we come in and we say listen, we want 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.640 to work with you care natively. But we have all 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.160 the infrastructure. We have all the camera equipment, we have 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:08.559 all the producers, we have all the editing facilities. We 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.160 have a strategy and data team that's really really smart 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.880 about how you should think about your you know, a 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:22.080 content brand with us UM. But ultimately we're not there 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:29.680 to create the only digital video opportunity for these stars. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.559 We believe we want to create a show with them, 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:35.840 a series with them, not unlike they might go to 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.280 a TV or a cable not a TV company to 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.040 cable company and create a show on cable. So we 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.240 really focus on just what swim Lane we think would 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.360 be fun and profitable to build out with them. So 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.520 with Tia, it was quick Fix, it was d I Y, 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.600 it was how can she help young women who may 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.040 or may not have young children get through the day 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.920 with easy quick tips that X we have a show 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.600 with Adrian Balion called All Things All Things Adrian, which 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.800 is really focused on style and beauty. Um you know, 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:14.200 we just launched a show with Jordan's sparks. Jordan's Sparks 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.319 one American idol ten years ago. She has a passion 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.400 for baking, so we have a show called Heart of 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:24.679 the Batter with Jordan's Spigs and jordan Sparks. So so 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.840 that's that is a swim lane. Will Jordan do other things? Absolutely? 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.360 I think last night she had a show on Lifetime 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.520 that launched um or or a one hour series, one 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.800 hour documentary on Lifetime. She has her albums that she's 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:38.880 gonna She'll have plenty of other things to do. But 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:40.640 in this one swim lane, we want to be a 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.800 partner and we really want to build an asset that's 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:47.120 valuable that can you know, thrive over the hopefully years 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.480 and years come. And so how do doing deals with 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.959 these types of people? How do you make that economical? 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.720 Because I would imagine cost control is the name of 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.640 the game here. It is, and that's that's what's exciting, 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:04.000 you know, you o this. I've been involved in digital 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.719 and in particular digital video really from the beginning in 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.199 launch media in the late nineties, and so I was 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.240 there when the first bits of video started streaming over 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.800 the Internet, and I've always been fascinated with how it's 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.440 evolved of the last twenty plus years, and I'm I'm 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:22.440 very excited about it now, more than I ever have 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:26.200 because of a number of reasons. One is, I think 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.160 there are more video platform scaled video platforms now than 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.560 there ever have been. So you have you've had YouTube 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.240 really was the only game in town for a long time. Now, Facebook, 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.400 then Instagram, obviously Amazon Prime is there and some of 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.920 the other platforms, but there there are multiple places now 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.560 when you create a piece of content you can monetize it. 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:46.880 And I don't just mean like doing brand integrations, but 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:49.600 just just running pre rolls and mid rolls. Now you 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.199 can do that across multiple platforms. Our company has always 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:57.280 been focused on high quality, premium, premium content, and the 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.800 platforms now are focused more and more on building clean, 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.400 well lit neighborhoods. It's one of the reasons we've called 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.120 what we're building a neighborhood. And so what we're seeing 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.640 is as we put our videos across all these platforms, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.600 they're getting higher and higher CPMs again, this is just 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.240 low touch programmatic. And so what we're finding is is 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.880 that we can actually cover most of our production costs, 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.760 in some cases all of our production costs with just 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.560 distributing our content across those platforms. Now, we're still doing 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.280 brand integrations, and we're doing e commerce, and we're going 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.960 to do licensing of our of our content. All of 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.520 that's going to come into play. But I think for 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.240 the first time, you're now able to on a unit 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.959 economic basis, we have a show with a particular production cost, 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.120 in a particular you know, set of economics, we can 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.520 pay that off now across platforms with low touch, as 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:54.440 opposed to hiring dozens of salespeople to hopefully sell branded 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.120 integrations to pay off this content. Well, that's really saying 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.280 something where we are because a year or so ago, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.240 the notion that there was more than one game in 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:08.440 town YouTube would really be a stretch. So sort of 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.600 review the rest of the pack there. How do you 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:15.839 like the evolution of let's call it the monetization opportunities 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:21.480 on Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram all that. So our audience, uh, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.960 and I didn't bring this up before, but is really 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.360 women and there they tend to be women from about 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.880 twenty five to forty four. That's the core, and we 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.360 even within women four it's really to thirty four is 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.160 the core core of our audience. We call them builders, 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:40.760 that's our our name for them because they're entering in 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.720 their mid twenties a different stage of life where they're 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:48.240 focusing on their home, their physical home. Uh, they're focusing 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:50.560 on their career. It's no longer just a job. There 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.920 actually think about their career. They're focusing on their family, 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.080 which could be a significant other. It could be uh, 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.200 you know, a husband or a wife at that point, 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.160 it could be young children. So they're building really their 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.960 lives and that Uh. If you think about our content historically, 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:08.960 even going back to two thousand seven and two thousand 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:13.840 and eight, we've always focused on that demo and um 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:19.160 in our content is both entertaining but also helpful and 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.600 informational and in some ways educational to those women going 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.760 through those uh, those ages and stages. It's not surprising 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.840 platforms like Facebook and Instagram lend themselves very very well 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.800 to our demographic. In fact, I think ten years ago, 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:40.360 um or even five years ago on Facebook. Uh when well, actually, 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.480 let's see when it was it In two thousand eleven, 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:47.400 YouTube as part of their first original funding program when 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.000 they funded their their first channels. They actually partnered with 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.440 us to start kin as a brand, and they wanted 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.080 to create a women's lifestyle brand on YouTube. But even 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:58.800 in two thousand eleven, it was a little early. Like 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:02.680 YouTube as a platform or I'm still skews fairly, fairly young. 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.400 I would say there's a much higher concentration on Facebook 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.760 and Instagram of our audience than there is on YouTube, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.320 or at least primarily on YouTube. Right. I think they're 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.160 you know, there's two billion people on YouTube, so they 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.120 cover everyone. But but really the heart of their audience 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.480 tends to be pretty young, under eighteen. So when we 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.280 launched Ken in two thousand eleven, it was slow growing 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.480 as a as a channel, um, And it wasn't really 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.680 un till Facebook a couple of years ago where we 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:29.640 started to really focus on Facebook, that we started to 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.280 see our audience scale. To answer your question specifically, though 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:35.280 YouTube has been in the game of selling mid roles 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.440 and pre roles and working with content creators with brand 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:43.200 integrations for years. Facebook, Um, it's fairly new. It's really 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.880 Facebook Watch is a year old. Uh, you know, selling 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.120 pre rolls and mid selling mid roles is probably about 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.640 that long. I you don't want to speak for Facebook. 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.920 I don't know exactly how long, but it's fairly recently 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.000 selling pre roles even more recently. So we're very bullish 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.960 on Facebook, and we're excited Instagram now is launched Instagram TV, 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.680 and hopefully we'll monetize. But um, I think what we're 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:13.200 seeing is growth on Facebook and Instagram, a faster growth, 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:18.320 and even from a monetization, faster growth. But but YouTube 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.399 is a mature platform and the way you monetize it 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:25.280 is mature. So uh, my instinct is is that Facebook 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:29.760 and Instagram will probably outpace uh YouTube as a monetization 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.840 platform for us over the coming months and years. What 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.560 about Amazon, because you're you distribute there, and my god, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.119 I guess there's just so much buzz about even what 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.119 they're doing from an ad perspective. Now, that's right, I mean, 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.640 we're It's funny, we've been for the last couple of weeks. 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.879 We've been talking about their new platform that's going to 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:48.840 be AD supported and making sure that we're from and 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.600 center on it. We we've worked with Amazon for years 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:56.560 and in multiple capacities. We've we've produced programming with them, 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.480 UM and different types of programming with them. We were 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:02.800 part of a program, still are part of a program 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:07.560 where they've selected UM a handful of digital companies that 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.480 they thought had really high quality digital content to be 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.920 part of Prime. So you can actually find our content 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.680 on Amazon Prime behind a paywall, so if you're a 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.760 Prime subscriber, you can get it. And we're able to 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.000 post our content onto pot Prime on a regular basis. 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.040 Now that's not ad supported, so that I just want 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.120 to be clear, that's different than that their new product, 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.080 or at least what we've read in the papers, their 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.439 new ad supported product that's coming out that when we 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.280 post our content to Prime, we get paid like any 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.600 content provider to Prime, we get a piece of the 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.720 subscription revenue. Obviously, most people go to Prime to watch 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.040 movies and TV. So I would say the digital partners 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.120 of Prime are probably a little lower down the totem pole, 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.879 but we still we still partner with them on that 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.680 and and uh, we think Amazon is a great platform 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.080 for us for a lot of reasons. We also have 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.840 a relationship with them where a lot of our content 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:04.360 has have stores so today you can go to UH 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.000 to some of our new channels and on videos click 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.520 through to buy some of the merchandise, all things Adrian 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.919 I mentioned with Adrian Bellion it's a style and beauty 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.520 channel and UH you can click through and buy the 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.720 makeup that might be in her video or by the 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:23.560 swimsuit she might be showing off this this past summer. 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.040 And so that's a really cool part of our relationship 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:27.960 with Amazon as well. So it's it's both the e 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.560 commerce side and the content side that it's interesting to 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.280 hear you even talk about that as a viable revenue stream. 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.600 It's typically companies like yours, it's all about advertising, maybe 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:41.920 something in subscription. So how meaningful is this? I think 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.879 they're all meaningful. I think, getting back to my original 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.240 point about where we are and kind of the video landscape, 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.960 I think there's been for the last few years this 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.560 um this feeling like you need to have a very 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:01.000 large ad sales team to sell big and its sponsorships 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.960 or big brand brand content to get these video series made. Um, 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.800 I mean they're you know, the running joke at the 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.720 New Front was you get presented with a lot of content, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:12.680 but like you never know what was gonna get made 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:14.919 or what wasn't going to get made because brands had 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.119 to come in and subsidize that. And I think now 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.560 what is really exciting is there is this sustainable, repeatable 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:27.960 and profitable model where low touch revenue can support high 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:33.000 quality video. And so we talked about programmatic being one 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.359 form of that. I think e commerce is is the 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.760 other low touch way of doing that, and we're doing 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.840 that with Amazon across our channels. Uh it's meaningful. It's 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.360 not as meaningful, I'll be honest, it's not as meaningful 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:50.920 yet as advertising, whether that's um pre role mid role 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.200 branded integration, but it's becoming more meaningful. I think where 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.480 it gets really exciting for us is not just where 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.080 we're linking to an Amazon or linking to another e 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.960 commerce platform, but where we're creating our own products around 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.119 our channels. So I think that to me is is 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:10.200 where UM we get into licensing our brands, creating bespoke 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.159 products around Uh some of the brands were building with 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.720 our talent. I think that that we haven't gotten there yet. 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.639 So there's no no, no imminent announcement there, but I 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:21.720 think that's going into two thousand nineteen going to be 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.760 a real focus for us. What else in is you 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.200 look Ahead is sort of top of mind for you 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:31.080 in the business. Yeah, well, I think for us, we're 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:38.040 really excited about UM how our audience is engaging with 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:42.240 our content and just consuming our content. So we've partnered 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:46.320 with Nielsen UM to rate our content. Thank you and 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.560 I have talked about this before, uh, and we have 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.639 found that on a regular basis, our shows, whether it's 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.320 TM or Quick Fix or other shows, are getting cable 0:21:57.320 --> 0:21:59.840 size audiences on a weekly basis. In fact, he is 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.840 Tia Moore's Quick Fix has multiple times been quite literally 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.520 the number one cable show, even though it's not on cable, 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.840 it's across digital platforms in women eighteen to thirty four 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:16.080 or in total viewership. So what we're excited about is 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:17.800 now that we have five of these channels, going to 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:19.520 seven by the end of the year, going to twenty 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.000 by the end of next year. We truly believe we're 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.800 going to be able to compete on a cable network basis. 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:29.200 We we really think of ourselves as a next generation 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.760 cable network. We're building a next generation cable network brand 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.359 with KIM and we will have audiences in the US 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:41.480 and without a question, internationally bigger than cable audiences today 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.640 on television. So to me, that's that's really the exciting 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:48.040 thing going into next year, the promise of building the 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:50.639