WEBVTT - Short Stuff: More Phrase Origins

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck.

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<v Speaker 1>Jerry's out there fiddling around somewhere in the ether neet

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<v Speaker 1>of the internet and the whatever, and this is short stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me just stop talking. Let's go. Yeah. This is

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<v Speaker 1>something we've done before and we will do again because

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<v Speaker 1>as everyone knows, we like phrase origins. I especially love

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<v Speaker 1>phrase origins, and I think we're doing three today, the

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<v Speaker 1>second one which can be summed up in like a

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<v Speaker 1>single sentence, probably, But we're gonna start with a grain

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<v Speaker 1>of salt. Take it with a grain of salt, buddy,

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<v Speaker 1>I will take it with the grain of salt because

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<v Speaker 1>I've just ingested some poison. No salt won't help that.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh well, according to Pliny the Elder, it would. And

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<v Speaker 1>they think that that's where the phrase take this with

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<v Speaker 1>a grain of salt really finds its origin. And by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, take something with the grain of salt means that, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you should be skeptical of what you're about to hear

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<v Speaker 1>or see or whatever. Um that that there's this information

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<v Speaker 1>that you're about to receive is of dubious origin. Right. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>That's that's the current understanding of take it with a

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<v Speaker 1>grain of salt, or a pinch of salt, or a

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<v Speaker 1>dose of salt, however you put it. That's the current

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<v Speaker 1>meaning of it. But they think as far back as

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<v Speaker 1>uh Pliny the Elder's naturalist hystoria um, that that that's

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<v Speaker 1>where it finds its origin. That's actually kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>referential thing to that to a recipe he gave under

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<v Speaker 1>the walnuts section. Yeah, take two dried walnuts, two figs,

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<v Speaker 1>and twenty leaves of rue. Pound them all together with

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<v Speaker 1>the addition of a grain of salt. If a person

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<v Speaker 1>takes this mixture fasting, he will be proof against all

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<v Speaker 1>poisons for that day. So if you were if you

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<v Speaker 1>thought you were going to be poisoned that day, before

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<v Speaker 1>you eat breakfast, eat this concoction that includes a grain

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<v Speaker 1>of salt, and no poison will befall you. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 1>here's the deal. That explains nothing about this phrase other

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<v Speaker 1>than he said the words grain of salt in his language,

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<v Speaker 1>which was com grano salis okay, because it's not metaphorical,

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<v Speaker 1>it's literal. If you want to talk about metaphor um,

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<v Speaker 1>you need to flash forward quite a bit. Until John

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<v Speaker 1>Trapp used it in a book called The Commentary Commentary

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<v Speaker 1>on Old and New Testaments Colon Boring, No fright. I

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<v Speaker 1>just made that part up. And he said this is

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<v Speaker 1>to be taken with a grain of salt, but we

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<v Speaker 1>still aren't sure what he meant by that. I want

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<v Speaker 1>to hazard a guess here. I think what John Trapp,

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<v Speaker 1>who has a great name by the way, um, what

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<v Speaker 1>he was saying is that this the following is very

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<v Speaker 1>difficult to to hear or it's um hard information to swallow,

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<v Speaker 1>a k A poisonous Okay, so you would have to

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<v Speaker 1>take this with a grain of salt. That's my guess. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm putting this out there everybody, because this is a

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<v Speaker 1>short stuff. I did not go to the trouble of

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<v Speaker 1>reading John Trapp's commentary on the Old and New Testaments.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a guess. But man, oh man, it is

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<v Speaker 1>a good guess. Yeah, that makes sense. And it did

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<v Speaker 1>pop up since then, but usually again referring to actual

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<v Speaker 1>grains of salt than in in the A and A.

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<v Speaker 1>Um it's a literary journal. Had this line are reasons

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<v Speaker 1>for not accepting the author's pictures of early Ireland without

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<v Speaker 1>many grains of salt, which I can even make heads

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<v Speaker 1>retails of that sentence period. No, but I think they

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<v Speaker 1>were wailing on the photographer, which it's like, just don't

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<v Speaker 1>accept the pictures, don't make fun of them in the

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<v Speaker 1>in the magazine. That's like us criticizing how Stuff Works

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<v Speaker 1>articles that we based episodes on. We'd never do that. No,

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<v Speaker 1>just be mean, but this doesn't. And I think this

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<v Speaker 1>one frustrated me because even that it still doesn't say

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<v Speaker 1>where it came from, like or why they started saying

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<v Speaker 1>grain of salt to mean what they meant metaphorically. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>because it was terribly written in this House Stuff Works article.

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<v Speaker 1>Well did you find a real reason because I couldn't.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't. I didn't. It just kind of suddenly, is

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<v Speaker 1>like it just appeared. And I get the impression that

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<v Speaker 1>the grain of salt is kind of appeared out of nowhere,

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<v Speaker 1>that it was um not appeared out of nowhere, that

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<v Speaker 1>they have kind of traced it back. But there's not

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<v Speaker 1>any real clarification. I'll tell you what has a clarification

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<v Speaker 1>check a clear lineage, and that is the phrase close

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<v Speaker 1>but no cigar. Yeah, this one's easy. Uh, And we

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<v Speaker 1>can definitely get this in in the next minute and

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<v Speaker 1>twenty seconds before our break because it's super easy. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>in the early twenty century when you went to these

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<v Speaker 1>traveling carnivals and they had these rip off games where

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<v Speaker 1>you would throw a ring on a coke bottle or

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<v Speaker 1>shoot a basketball into a hoop that's barely the size

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<v Speaker 1>of a basketball, which I didn't figure out sold. I

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<v Speaker 1>was way too old that that was not a standard hoop.

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<v Speaker 1>Did Gray, Hairy Body? Then I did, Uh, you're you're

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<v Speaker 1>meant to not win those games generally, or to come

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<v Speaker 1>close and want to spend more money. And that's the

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<v Speaker 1>whole idea. But back then, what was the prize or

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<v Speaker 1>one of the prizes that you would get a cigar?

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. So if you were sitting there throwing, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>doing a ring toss around some glass bottles and you

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<v Speaker 1>missed and you missed, and you missed, you ran out

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<v Speaker 1>of rings, the carnival barker would say close, but no cigar,

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<v Speaker 1>No cigar. So that's where that origin comes from, where

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<v Speaker 1>that phrase comes from it, which is great because it's

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<v Speaker 1>a nice, tidy package. There's no controversy, no disputing it,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just done. It's not like that ugly, horrible

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<v Speaker 1>grain of salt origin. Yeah, and kids. It's six year

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<v Speaker 1>olds everywhere would go will I never get the cigar,

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<v Speaker 1>and their dad would say, here you go, son, have mine.

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<v Speaker 1>That was great. Should we take a break? Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>thought that was implied by the pregnant pause. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll talk about South pause right after this. That's why

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<v Speaker 1>SKA you should know, y ska that you should know, nose,

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<v Speaker 1>but Josh Clarks watch sks you should know. Alright, Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking South pause. And this one's like a neat

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<v Speaker 1>combination between horrible, ugly grain of salt and beautiful perfect

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<v Speaker 1>close but no cigar because there's a lot of different

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<v Speaker 1>ideas that that um are competing for the origin that

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<v Speaker 1>aren't necessarily right, but aren't necessarily wrong either. So there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of great info involved, that's right. Uh, And

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<v Speaker 1>and it kind of comes down to a couple of sports.

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<v Speaker 1>South paul Is um has long been linked to boxing

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<v Speaker 1>and baseball. Rocky Balboa was a south Paw, no, was he? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I think so right. I don't know. I don't pay

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<v Speaker 1>that clothes of attention. I'm just enthralled by the action.

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<v Speaker 1>You were just all about those muscles. Yeah, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it was. I think it was kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>deal that he was a southball. Uh So you've long

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<v Speaker 1>heard it to be about boxers in baseball, but generally,

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<v Speaker 1>even um, more specifically, it's been associated with pitchers. A

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<v Speaker 1>left handed pitcher is known as a southball. Okay, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>now that's that's the one I've always heard it from.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm never Oh no, I'm sorry, I was about to

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<v Speaker 1>say the reverse of the truth. I've always heard it from, right, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>the the I've always heard of it being associated with boxing.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never heard of associated with baseball. Okay, yeah, baseball pitchers.

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<v Speaker 1>Generally it's you know, it's an old school term, but

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<v Speaker 1>I've I've definitely heard it before. So even before necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>it was involved in boxing, or it was involved with boxing.

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<v Speaker 1>Um and this there was a political cartoon that was

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<v Speaker 1>referencing boxing, and we just didn't realize it. Um. There

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<v Speaker 1>the earliest one of the earliest mentions of the left

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<v Speaker 1>hand especially involved in delivering a punch, being called the

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<v Speaker 1>south paw, comes from eighty eight editorial cartoon that showed

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<v Speaker 1>um a candidate named Lewis Cass who was running for

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<v Speaker 1>the Democrats. He had just laid out Zachary Taylor and

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<v Speaker 1>Taylor's running mate Millard Fillmore, UM and Millard Fillmore as

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<v Speaker 1>a black eye. And there's a quote coming from him

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<v Speaker 1>which Chuck, I think that you would be really good

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<v Speaker 1>to read this quote. Curse the old hoss. What a

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<v Speaker 1>south Paul he has given me. That's that was one

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<v Speaker 1>of the best Millard Fillmore impressions I've ever heard in

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<v Speaker 1>my life. W ot watt I'm gonna bring that one back. Yep.

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<v Speaker 1>So Millard Fillmore is calling Um at the very least

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<v Speaker 1>the punch that lew his cast landed on him a

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<v Speaker 1>south paw. If not Lewis Cass a south paw for

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<v Speaker 1>using his left hand, who knows, but the idea is

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<v Speaker 1>south paw and knocking a person to the ground with

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<v Speaker 1>your fists was associated at least as early as eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>forty eight, at least as politics is concerned. Yeah, there

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<v Speaker 1>was UM. There were more specific boxing references. There was

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<v Speaker 1>one in eighteen sixty in a bare knuckle um fight,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess or boxing match pugilists squaring off against one another,

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<v Speaker 1>it's another way to put it. In the New York Herald,

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<v Speaker 1>the reporter David woods Um reported that in the ninth round,

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<v Speaker 1>uh I'm sorry, David Woods was the boxer. David Woods

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<v Speaker 1>planted his south paw under the chin, under his opponent's chin,

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<v Speaker 1>laying him flat as a pancake. And that wasn't calling

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<v Speaker 1>him a south ball, but called his fist his south paw.

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<v Speaker 1>To words right, So okay, So that's that's good enough

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<v Speaker 1>for me, I say boxing. But unfortunately, there's some contemporaneous

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<v Speaker 1>use of south paw as far as um pitching goes

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<v Speaker 1>as far back as eighteen fifty eight. In the New

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<v Speaker 1>York Atlas, there's mention of left handed first basement, who's

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<v Speaker 1>called the south paw That predates that boxing reference, although

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<v Speaker 1>it comes after the Millard Fillmore quote. Um. There's some others,

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<v Speaker 1>like in eight seventy five edition of St. Louis newspaper UM.

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<v Speaker 1>So it seems to have been associated not just with pictures,

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<v Speaker 1>but the pictures are the ones who have the great

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<v Speaker 1>origin story of associating left handedness with being a south paw. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was you know, some people said that ballparks

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<v Speaker 1>were oriented in the eighteen hundreds with home plate um

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<v Speaker 1>facing west, which meant that a lefty player facing west

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<v Speaker 1>would be pitching with his south paw but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>not all baseball stadiums were oriented that way, so that

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<v Speaker 1>seems a little flimsy to me. Um. I was seeing

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<v Speaker 1>of the boxing thing. If you're a boxer, you've got

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<v Speaker 1>your right hand sort of up as your lead hand,

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<v Speaker 1>and your left hand would be south so that might

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<v Speaker 1>be your south paw. But if you are a south

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<v Speaker 1>ball then your left hand is up, so that doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>really make sense. That's right, that's right. It's not sensible

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<v Speaker 1>at all, which means it's not solved. We have no

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<v Speaker 1>idea what the true origin of south paw is, but

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<v Speaker 1>at least there's a lot more information about it that

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<v Speaker 1>we can choose from and make your own decision. So

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<v Speaker 1>are we one for three on this one? No, we're

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<v Speaker 1>two for three. I'm including South Touth because it's so

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<v Speaker 1>great close but no cigars literally perfect, And then I

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<v Speaker 1>don't even want to bring up the other one again. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go on assault free diet for the next

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<v Speaker 1>week because of this episode. Yeah, that'll show salt um. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to show salt uh, well, you do

0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.079
<v Speaker 1>that same thing yourself. And because we have run out

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<v Speaker 1>of things to say, everybody short stuff is out stuff

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<v Speaker 1>You should know is production of I Heart Radios How

0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.360
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