Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott.
Speaker 2: And I'm Matt Miller. This is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 1: Coming up on today's podcast. We've got the news from
Speaker 1: Portia that they're no longer making the take hand Wagon.
Speaker 2: Yes, which is a bummer for us, but probably not
Speaker 2: really a bummer for.
Speaker 1: Probably not a surprise nobody was buying. I know, but
Speaker 1: people like us get so mad when an automaker says
Speaker 1: they're not going to make.
Speaker 2: Yes exactly and ferrari as you might expect, essentially forcing
Speaker 2: wealthy clients to buy the Luce Yes.
Speaker 1: Now we kind of already know this, but this is
Speaker 1: a really good of course, but this is a great
Speaker 1: reported piece from our Italian counterparts about the real things
Speaker 1: happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: Plus BMW's slashing its margin forecasts. This is one of
Speaker 2: the best run car makers in the world in terms
Speaker 2: of profitability, and they're having a tough time, which is
Speaker 2: bad news for the whole industry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, when you said let's talk about BMW,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, we're talking about your new BMW.
Speaker 2: That God, let's start Actually, let's start with that. So
Speaker 2: I bought last week new to Me BMW. It's a
Speaker 2: used MB seven sixty and from twenty twenty good, and
Speaker 2: I had never test driven it. I'd never driven a BMW,
Speaker 2: a twelve cylinder BMW before.
Speaker 1: What gave you the confidence to make this purchase without
Speaker 1: even kicking the wheels?
Speaker 2: Well, so I had driven BMW seven series in many
Speaker 2: different forms. I'd driven the seven to fifty from this generation,
Speaker 2: although the earlier one. I drove the twenty sixteen seven
Speaker 2: to fifty when it came out, and I've driven the
Speaker 2: new seven series in all of their eyeamiliar.
Speaker 1: With you're familiar with the portfolio.
Speaker 2: I knew it would be a big luxury sedan, an isolated,
Speaker 2: you know, touring car with very light steering, and but
Speaker 2: I wanted the V twelve. And the reason is that
Speaker 2: I've always wanted like a sportier Rolls Royce. Remember how
Speaker 2: badly I wanted a Bentley Turbo Are for a long
Speaker 2: time until Matt Farra actually made the purchase, and he
Speaker 2: didn't keep that car very long. So I always and
Speaker 2: that was like the sportier that Bentley was, the sportier
Speaker 2: Rolls Rolls Royce of the era's I think it's really cool,
Speaker 2: but I in my opinion, the Bentley of today is
Speaker 2: the BMW because obviously they bought Rolls Royce since then,
Speaker 2: and you know, they build this N seventy four to
Speaker 2: twelve cylinder engine for Rolls Royce as well, and now
Speaker 2: they're no longer using the twelve cylinder and any BMW product.
Speaker 2: But but I love the feeling of the roles. I
Speaker 2: just wanted to be a little bit more connected to
Speaker 2: the ground, a little bit stiffer role. I wanted to
Speaker 2: roll less, yes, and so I knew. Plus I love
Speaker 2: the look of the facelifted G twelve generation BMWs. It
Speaker 2: got the big grill and at the time when it
Speaker 2: first came out, everybody was like, oh, that's horrible.
Speaker 1: It's funny this is considered big.
Speaker 2: It was at the time, I considered very big in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty, so I traded my Dodge Challenger for it
Speaker 2: because I also needed a bigger car for my kids.
Speaker 2: I needed a car that would work better in winter.
Speaker 1: You've got a third one on the way exactly.
Speaker 2: And so I had been looking for it for years.
Speaker 2: In fact, I tried to convince my wife when she
Speaker 2: got rid of her Volvo xt ninety that the answer
Speaker 2: is a big German Sedan because they depreciate so quickly
Speaker 2: you can afford to buy a one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: or two hundred thousand dollars a luxury car a few
Speaker 2: years later for like sixty five or seventy, right, and
Speaker 2: she poo pooed the idea and ended up getting the
Speaker 2: Mercedes GLS. So I've I've kept thinking about it. I
Speaker 2: kept wanting it, and over the last few months I
Speaker 2: was searching. They're hard to find because they only made
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty of the facelifted version in the
Speaker 2: last three years of production. But I finally found one.
Speaker 1: We found this in Texas.
Speaker 2: I found it Big Star Cadillac outside of Houston, Texas.
Speaker 2: I tried desperately to buy it through a BMW dealer
Speaker 2: because I had gotten to know some BMW dealers and
Speaker 2: they were like, listen, let us buy this car for us,
Speaker 2: and then we'll like do a full PPI essentially, and
Speaker 2: then maybe we can even cepo it, you know, so
Speaker 2: that you can get a Quarrantine exactly, and you know,
Speaker 2: with a twelve cylinder car with air suspension, like it's
Speaker 2: a little bit scary maybe, but Big Star they're part
Speaker 2: of a big Automotive Group, and they don't. They don't
Speaker 2: wholesale cars to other dealers. But the problem is, it's
Speaker 2: so hard to find a low mileage example of these
Speaker 2: cars out there that has everything I wanted. I wanted
Speaker 2: the bowers In Wilkins stereo, you know. I wanted the
Speaker 2: full driving assistance suite. I wanted a rear bench instead
Speaker 2: of the executive lounge.
Speaker 1: And some interior lighting effects, didn't you.
Speaker 2: I wanted the led gun roof like and I wanted
Speaker 2: the laser lights, which they only made in the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty year and they had to act because of the
Speaker 2: COVID remember the supply chain problems, and then also they
Speaker 2: were just too expensive to make anymore. I wanted the
Speaker 2: night vision, as useless as it is, just because I
Speaker 2: wanted every pretty box checked. And so finally I big Star.
Speaker 2: I was like, come on, please wholesale this to a
Speaker 2: BMW dealer and they said, sorry, like, we just can't.
Speaker 2: It's corporate, you know, rules, And but I thought, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to let this one slip through my hands
Speaker 2: because I had lost so many of them. I thought
Speaker 2: I had when we were when we were in Miami
Speaker 2: for the F one and it got sold. I thought
Speaker 2: I had another one from South Carolina. I got sold,
Speaker 2: so I pulled the trigger. No PPI, no test drive, nothing.
Speaker 1: I love this for you because Magnus.
Speaker 2: Because Magnus told me, like I never do that stuff.
Speaker 1: And I'm really excited for you.
Speaker 2: Want to live my life more like Magnets. And it
Speaker 2: worked out really well. I got maybe I got lucky,
Speaker 2: but it was like it's perfect, I'm so in luck.
Speaker 1: So it got dropped. What did you do for your got.
Speaker 2: Dropped off two days ago and it came up on
Speaker 2: an open truck. Because chicking was so expensive, Like the
Speaker 2: first quotes I got were like six or four thousand dollars,
Speaker 2: sorry to in. It covered for covered taking the car
Speaker 2: to me and then picking up my challenger and trade.
Speaker 2: And I was like four thousand is that's a lot
Speaker 2: because you're already paying. I got it for sixty five.
Speaker 2: You know, it stickered for one eight, so I already
Speaker 2: got a massive deal, but I didn't want to add
Speaker 2: any more. Finally I got a quote fourteen hundred for
Speaker 2: the shipping each direction, but open. So when it got
Speaker 2: to me, it was pretty dirty. So the first thing
Speaker 2: I did was wash it right and then it was
Speaker 2: like getting to.
Speaker 1: Have any word smells or anything.
Speaker 2: No, it didn't. And I was worried about that Mercedes
Speaker 2: that I got.
Speaker 1: That's a Seinfeld episode.
Speaker 2: This had a smell. I couldn't get out of it
Speaker 2: for like a year. Yeah, But then, like I had
Speaker 2: to put my kids to bed, you know, I had
Speaker 2: to do all this family stuff. And so by the
Speaker 2: time I got a lad of thinking about it again,
Speaker 2: it was already ten. I wake up at five, so
Speaker 2: you usually I'm in bed by then, but I couldn't
Speaker 2: go to bed. I had to drive it. So my
Speaker 2: wife went to sleep and I like quietly snuck out
Speaker 2: of bed and I took it out on the Bronx
Speaker 2: Rood Parkway up to twenty two out to Bedford and
Speaker 2: like didn't get home till midnight. But it was so
Speaker 2: much And the stereo is insane.
Speaker 1: What did you listen to when I was.
Speaker 2: Listening to the newest King Buffalo record, which is like
Speaker 2: my obsession lately, this band, And it's just an amazing
Speaker 2: stereo system. Plus it has like the lighted speaker grills
Speaker 2: and the ambient lighting inside makes it the experience so cool. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just I absolutely love it. It's really and the
Speaker 2: four we steering is for the first time something that
Speaker 2: I can totally feel working. Yeah, because it's a long car.
Speaker 2: It's like as long as a Chevy suburban. But yeah,
Speaker 2: with the four wheel steering, it just shortens the wheelbase,
Speaker 2: you know, and the way it feels so much and
Speaker 2: everything works perfectly on it. The suspension is great, the
Speaker 2: wheels are gorgeous.
Speaker 1: Have the girls been in it yet?
Speaker 2: The girls have not been in it, okay, but when
Speaker 2: they do. It has the the blinds that go up
Speaker 2: on the back seat, on the back window that I
Speaker 2: can control from up front, and yeah, it's just got
Speaker 2: I just I just got so lucky. I'm so happy
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 1: Are you even thinking about the Challenger?
Speaker 2: Not even a little bit. And I thought I thought
Speaker 2: I would cry. I thought I would actually actually cry,
Speaker 2: and I don't even It's not a guy who cries
Speaker 2: very much. But I thought, you know what, this Challenger
Speaker 2: has been. It served me so well over the last
Speaker 2: three years, and I really love it. I like the
Speaker 2: whole kind of cosplay, like muscle cars, cruising, everyone walks lasting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it just it rolls so much. And I never
Speaker 2: trust the grip because I always lose traction and it's
Speaker 2: hard to put kids in the back like it just.
Speaker 1: It's just you're just evolving as a person.
Speaker 2: I still look at them longingly when I see them
Speaker 2: drive by. It's only been a couple of days, but
Speaker 2: I honestly I don't miss it one single bit.
Speaker 1: That's a really good sign. I think you made the
Speaker 1: right decision.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so cool, so very very cool.
Speaker 1: Do we need to talk about what BMW is doing
Speaker 1: corporately now because that is.
Speaker 2: Well, they're tie in, I mean, I mean so to me,
Speaker 2: the BMW story is a concern for the industry right
Speaker 2: because they're having real problems getting the margins they want.
Speaker 2: They're having problems and trying to I.
Speaker 1: Don't think but BMW is alone by any means.
Speaker 2: No. No. In fact, the reason the story I think
Speaker 2: is so interesting is that BMW has been so sicks.
Speaker 1: That's one of the last ones to adjust.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but they had to slash their guidance. They
Speaker 2: get in. They got a new new CEO or new
Speaker 2: chairman as Oliver Zipsa steps out of the lead role.
Speaker 2: But he had done very well, we thought, and maybe
Speaker 2: this is the new guy, like throwing everything out with
Speaker 2: the kitchen sink. A lot of times when the new
Speaker 2: CEO comes in, they will act the previous forecasts and
Speaker 2: just drop expectations so that they can underpromise and over
Speaker 2: deliver for their their.
Speaker 1: Pay set themselves up for six exactly this way.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. But look, I mean you've just pulled up
Speaker 2: BMW right, and you're looking at their new concept.
Speaker 1: Because yes, I want to talk about I want to hear.
Speaker 1: We actually haven't discussed this, Matt, So I'm really curious
Speaker 1: what you think of these concepts, especially the m concept
Speaker 1: Noyah CLASSA, but also that Alpina concept that they showed
Speaker 1: at COMO. I don't know if you saw it.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen the Alpina concepts normally. Well, no, I
Speaker 2: have seen Alpina concept now that I think about it,
Speaker 2: But I don't think it's a concept.
Speaker 1: It's a concept. What makes it? Okay?
Speaker 2: Yes, this is not a production car. I've seen something
Speaker 2: that Alpina has done recently which goes the other way
Speaker 2: in terms of lessening the craziness of BMW. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the Alpina concept for the the new seven.
Speaker 1: Uh yet inspired by the seven series, they to my
Speaker 1: knowledge design right. They have not actually confirmed that this
Speaker 1: is this is anywhere, This is not a production Carr,
Speaker 1: Are you saying you've.
Speaker 2: Confirmed from the BMW North American CEO that Alpina will
Speaker 2: make well a certain series.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's not a timeline.
Speaker 2: Of social the new design language on that.
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I was getting up back to
Speaker 1: the series. Okay, so what about this m concept Noya Classic.
Speaker 2: I really like it. Okay, what do you think?
Speaker 1: I like it. I'm trying to find a picture. But
Speaker 1: to me, it reminds me a little bit of Mercedes
Speaker 1: four door AMG coop in that it's an electric sedan.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, they can tart it
Speaker 1: up however they want, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it's an electric sitan.
Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about the powertrain, just the design, you know.
Speaker 2: I like the design a lot.
Speaker 1: Sure, the design is like slightly more interesting than normal
Speaker 1: BMW cars, which I do like. I love how brutalist
Speaker 1: they are. I like the attitude. I in general do
Speaker 1: like the BMW design. I like the grills, I like
Speaker 1: all of it. And this one was like the dial
Speaker 1: was turned a few more notches to the right. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I like it. But I wouldn't call it like a
Speaker 1: supercar or anything like that.
Speaker 2: So I wasn't thinking about the powertrain. And I've seen
Speaker 2: so much reaction to this car on Twitter, and people
Speaker 2: are reacting to the evnus of it, and I'm and
Speaker 2: they hate it, and I'm loving the design of it.
Speaker 2: I don't care about the evnus of it because.
Speaker 1: That seems insane. You, of all people always care about.
Speaker 2: These, you know. I just mean the reason I don't
Speaker 2: care is because I'm never gonna buy one. And uh,
Speaker 2: if they come out with that as an EV, I'm
Speaker 2: not interested in it because of the powertrain. I'm yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, I just don't have much interest in an
Speaker 2: EV sports car.
Speaker 1: Nobody does.
Speaker 2: I think probably the drive train works in the I
Speaker 2: seven and the seven series. It works because the soul
Speaker 2: of a seven series is as much the isolation and
Speaker 2: the suspension as it is the motive.
Speaker 1: A rolling, smooth cocoon that shield you from the city
Speaker 1: while you work and have your meetings and you're running
Speaker 1: the world completely.
Speaker 2: But the soul of an M three is the motor.
Speaker 1: And yes, and to me, motor. Now we're looking at
Speaker 1: a side profile. Now, this m concept Noya CLASSA. I
Speaker 1: love to say it in your German. I was just
Speaker 1: gonna say, this actually doesn't look any different than any
Speaker 1: other BMW. It looks exactly the same. So if this
Speaker 1: is their like shining new star, I'm like, well, I
Speaker 1: think they should turn it.
Speaker 2: Up a bit more ductail. It has a split ductail
Speaker 2: on the back. I'm hopelessly smitten with the M two.
Speaker 1: So I know I'm getting one actually when I get
Speaker 1: back to LA to test drive, to test, yeah, not
Speaker 1: to not to buy only because really, you are so
Speaker 1: effusive about it. Now I'm really curious. I have to.
Speaker 2: Well, my my buddy Philip Richter, you know who does yes,
Speaker 2: who puts on the Turtle Invitational Car Show, Yes, in Bedford.
Speaker 2: He is a huge BMW aficionado. He has like an
Speaker 2: M six from the eighties. He has a ton of
Speaker 2: BMW motorcycles, and the M two, the new M two,
Speaker 2: is the first new car that he's been interested in since,
Speaker 2: like Mercedes in the early two thousands.
Speaker 1: That's a really that that's a good direction to go
Speaker 1: like this, And you're right, I do. Now we're on
Speaker 1: the BMW website and it just has powerful.
Speaker 2: Rear end, like a powerful rear.
Speaker 1: I know me too. This is great, this is great.
Speaker 1: I'm excited, and but back to the mar gets Uh
Speaker 1: is this going to change anything for the bottom.
Speaker 2: Line, don't you know what? I'm interested. I'm interested to
Speaker 2: see what the future would look like. I'd love to
Speaker 2: fast forward five or ten years and just see how
Speaker 2: EV adoption has progressed. Because obviously everybody who wanted an
Speaker 2: EV already has one. And people who don't care about
Speaker 2: like the soul of a car or are really the
Speaker 2: driving experience, you know, who want an appliance, they'll get one,
Speaker 2: for sure, because it makes perfect sense as an appliance.
Speaker 2: But are car enthusiasts really gonna get evs? I mean,
Speaker 2: as as I see Mercedes and Porschae and we'll talk
Speaker 2: about what Porsche is doing in a second, try desperately
Speaker 2: to make their evs feel like gasoline cars. Sounds like
Speaker 2: a V eight exactly exactly, Like, oh, we made this
Speaker 2: sound exactly like the V eight. Well, but then why
Speaker 2: not just buy a V eight or Porsche with they.
Speaker 1: You still have real V eights exactly yea.
Speaker 2: And in fact, let's talk about the Porsche thing. Let's
Speaker 2: do it. They've come out with a system on the Tychon.
Speaker 2: It's called E Shift, and you'll be able to choose
Speaker 2: as an option for the twenty twenty seven Tychon. It
Speaker 2: uses steering wheel paddles to simulate an eight speed transmission,
Speaker 2: complete with artificial shift shocks, a virtual rev limitter, engine
Speaker 2: breaking effects, and synthesized powertrain sounds. So they're basically trying
Speaker 2: to make it feel as much like a gasoline engine
Speaker 2: as they can, including basically reducing the efficiency and the
Speaker 2: kind of instant torque hit and the one gear simplicity
Speaker 2: that you would get with an EV normally. So they're
Speaker 2: basically trying to handicap the EV to make it feel
Speaker 2: more like a gasoline engine. So then, like, why not
Speaker 2: just buy one of the gasoline engine cars that they sell.
Speaker 1: I know, that's such a good question, And honestly, I
Speaker 1: get why they're trying to do this, because they understand
Speaker 1: that people want to feel things with their cars, and
Speaker 1: you have to make evs somehow. Emotional and emotions are
Speaker 1: generated through feelings, often physical feelings, So I get that,
Speaker 1: but I can't help but think as we see more
Speaker 1: and more of these simulated things like simulated shifting and
Speaker 1: simulated sounds it's only going to make the value of
Speaker 1: the real thing even higher. True, it's only going to
Speaker 1: make the real thing even more desirable. And it's only
Speaker 1: going to continue to polarize the highest end where people
Speaker 1: really want the real manual, the real combustion, the real
Speaker 1: whatever else. And it's expensive now to get that. And
Speaker 1: I mean it's pulling. I think everyone talks about a
Speaker 1: K shape curve, but I feel like we're even going
Speaker 1: in that direction just with simulated stuff.
Speaker 2: Right, the real leather, right, yes, yes, they come out
Speaker 2: with better and better pleather. People are going to say, hey,
Speaker 2: I got this one with real leather in it.
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 2: I just think it's a bit silly. I mean, imagine
Speaker 2: if when we transitioned from horse drawn carriages to cars,
Speaker 2: they were like, wait, let's make this like simulated poop,
Speaker 2: you know, or this this can smell like a real horse.
Speaker 1: It can smell like a real horse in here. I
Speaker 1: mean I kind of think, you know what, that's it.
Speaker 1: That's actually an argument for if you're making an EV,
Speaker 1: just keep it in evy clean into what an EV is,
Speaker 1: which is silent, smooth, completely uh you know, seamless acceleration,
Speaker 1: instant acceleration. Just lean into that, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, they're building these things for the enthusiasts, right,
Speaker 2: And we're also seeing at the same time these brands
Speaker 2: acts enthusiasts. Yes, products like Portia is no longer going
Speaker 2: to sell the whatever they call it cross Charismos Sport
Speaker 2: or whatever, like the wagon versions of their Taekons. And
Speaker 2: they've long since stopped making the wagon version of the
Speaker 2: PanAm Era. And that's like we were saying, that's what, yes,
Speaker 2: you and I would want. Apparently not enough people were
Speaker 2: buying them, so they stopped making them. If they're making
Speaker 2: these cars fake shifting for the enthusiasts, is the enthusiast
Speaker 2: really going to pay however much they charge, like an
Speaker 2: extra ten thousand dollars, the option's got to be expensive,
Speaker 2: right on an already one hundred and fifty thousand dollars car. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I doubt it. They should just make a real EV
Speaker 2: I know that's supposed to be an EV and in
Speaker 2: charge accordingly completely.
Speaker 1: Let's think also about China where China, Okay, this is
Speaker 1: the biggest, most lucrative car market in the world. Buyers
Speaker 1: there have already shown that they are very interested in
Speaker 1: buying Chinese made domestically made evs because the AIS way better,
Speaker 1: They're way more affordable, and they perform just as well,
Speaker 1: if not better as well from Chinese automakers. Those automakers
Speaker 1: aren't trying to add in some sort of weird sounds
Speaker 1: or weird shifting into their cars. So why would we us,
Speaker 1: meaning the West, then try to like come in on
Speaker 1: the back end and give those buyers some sort of
Speaker 1: tangible sounds that they clearly don't want. They're already happy
Speaker 1: with the pure EV and the AI. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I'm making sense here.
Speaker 2: You are. You are. The argument for sound, and it's
Speaker 2: long been a controversial in Germany that EV's don't make
Speaker 2: noise because you can they do make coming, or because
Speaker 2: you don't know how you can't gauge how fast they're
Speaker 2: going by the way they sound, makes sense. But the
Speaker 2: argument for faking a sound of a different powertrain that
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, like remember when
Speaker 2: Mercedes started coming out with their fake sounds, but they
Speaker 2: were like a lion roar or like a wave crashing. Yes,
Speaker 2: I like that better, you know, I want somebody somebody
Speaker 2: brought in. I think Hans Zimmer to make a sound
Speaker 2: for their EV. That's great.
Speaker 1: That might be BMW was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, big, He's the perfect kid to do it. Yes,
Speaker 2: Like I'm all for making your own or what Dodge
Speaker 2: did with the Fratsnic chamber or what Ferrari's doing with
Speaker 2: the luch where they're actually amplifying the sound of the
Speaker 2: electric motor. I get that better. I get that. I
Speaker 2: can understand that more easily than trying to fake a
Speaker 2: V eight sound.
Speaker 1: I feel like the general rule of thumb of trying
Speaker 1: to please everyone or be all things to everyone at
Speaker 1: all times, it almost never works for anything, including cars.
Speaker 1: I think really you should just if you're going to
Speaker 1: do an EV, lean into it. I mean, Tesla leaned
Speaker 1: into being completely different and being an EV and they
Speaker 1: changed the world.
Speaker 2: That's for sure. I'm Matt Miller along with Hannah Elliott.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Hot Pursuit. We have more coming up
Speaker 2: after this. I'm Matt Miller and.
Speaker 1: I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2: By the way, speaking of evs, we can get to
Speaker 2: the Ferrari story. Yeah, so you already know, and we've
Speaker 2: already talked about so many times, and Jay Leno's made
Speaker 2: famous Ferrari's business model, right, he won't buy a Ferrari
Speaker 2: because they want you to come and buy the entry
Speaker 2: level models or coming by the you know, the cheaper
Speaker 2: stuff before you can get to.
Speaker 1: Their like the more exclusive the.
Speaker 2: Twelve cylinders or the exactly or the one offs or
Speaker 2: I don't know, like one of one hundred or whatever.
Speaker 1: So and that business model has worked incredibly.
Speaker 2: Word regardless of Jay Leno's distaste for it.
Speaker 1: Completely it creates the perception of status and scarcity and
Speaker 1: complete elitism in the most in the most desirable way.
Speaker 1: You want to be in that club.
Speaker 2: It also makes sense though, like I want to sell
Speaker 2: my most coveted products to clients that have been with
Speaker 2: me there throughout.
Speaker 1: The Well, look, if you're if we're the regular at
Speaker 1: a restaurant, we want to know that we can walk
Speaker 1: in and have a table because we have proven we're here,
Speaker 1: We're we're supporting you, we're fans of the restaurant. I've
Speaker 1: been here. I want to fill some.
Speaker 2: Of that, all your new products completely. We'll take whatever
Speaker 2: you can serve, right, yeah, right, I totally get that,
Speaker 2: So I'm not I'm not really against that business model.
Speaker 1: Per se me neither. But it's a fine line. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's a fine line.
Speaker 2: And if they're twisting arms to uh sell the Luce,
Speaker 2: that's more than a story about their business model. That's
Speaker 2: a story about how nobody wants his car.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think there's for sure, there's that. There's
Speaker 1: also the idea that people who make enough money to
Speaker 1: buy nice ferraris aren't dumb, and nobody likes to feel
Speaker 1: that they're being controlled, or that they're being taken advantage
Speaker 1: of because of their money, or that they're just gonna
Speaker 1: take it. And I've heard plenty of people who own
Speaker 1: ferraris who say, I'm so sick of being you know,
Speaker 1: dictated to about what I can and can't buy. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of done. You know, it gets to a point
Speaker 1: where they don't like it anymore. But then you have
Speaker 1: like David Lee for instance, told me, Yeah, maybe he'll
Speaker 1: buy the LuSE and Luce, and if he decides to
Speaker 1: sell it in a few years after the you know
Speaker 1: period where he can't flip it ends, then he'll sell
Speaker 1: it and to someone like that he can afford it
Speaker 1: and it's not that big a deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for him, is no problem. But I think and Okay,
Speaker 2: he just paid thirty eight million dollars for a car,
Speaker 2: so he can buy everything. But I have a friend
Speaker 2: who just bought a two ninety six GTB because well,
Speaker 2: not necessarily because he wants to twelve cylinder, but his
Speaker 2: expectation is that it's in his mind. Yes, at the
Speaker 2: same time, he's loving the two ninety six.
Speaker 1: That's so good.
Speaker 2: He's having so much fun driving it. Yes, And also
Speaker 2: when people see him driving the two ninety six, they're like,
Speaker 2: that's an awesome car. That dude is a total baller.
Speaker 2: He's driving a sweet Ferrari. Whereas if he bought the
Speaker 2: Luce to get there a number one, I'm not sure
Speaker 2: how he would be feeling about it. It's probably awesome,
Speaker 2: fun to drive, and the interior looks comfortable, you know,
Speaker 2: but definitely people on the street would be like, look
Speaker 2: at that idiot. He's driving a six hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars Apple car, Like, what a sucker.
Speaker 1: The thing that I wonder is is there space for
Speaker 1: a group of Luce owners to become kind of like
Speaker 1: cyber truck owners where they have their own little tribe
Speaker 1: and they they're in their world. They like it, and
Speaker 1: it's a badge of pride to drive a cyber truck,
Speaker 1: even though the cyber truck is widely hated.
Speaker 2: You think that's how it is. Yes, you know someone
Speaker 2: who drives a cyber truck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and among that set, it's kind of like a
Speaker 1: badge of pride, like they're they're very tight. I wonder
Speaker 1: if that would happen with Luce at all.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I try to be a kind person
Speaker 2: you are. I hope that I'm tolerant and open minded
Speaker 2: and inclusive, you know, And I mean that in the
Speaker 2: least woke and most authentic way that you know, because
Speaker 2: I want to be I was telling my wife the
Speaker 2: other day that, like, you know, being kind it's like
Speaker 2: free money because you're you make yourself feel good about you.
Speaker 2: But but but I still can't help a past judgment
Speaker 2: on anybody I see driving a cyber truck.
Speaker 1: I always go back to, I see how children got
Speaker 1: so excited for that cyber truck, And I've driven one
Speaker 1: and had lived in one for a few days, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2: No, I hear you. I think I think about your
Speaker 2: test drive as well, and I think about how much
Speaker 2: I respect both Elon Musk and vun Holdsausen for having
Speaker 2: the courage on the show, for having the courage to
Speaker 2: make it. And at the time, I was like, that's
Speaker 2: cool because they're willing to break out of this conformist
Speaker 2: like yes, But at the same time, when I see
Speaker 2: someone driving a cyber truck past the Starbucks in Scarsdale, I.
Speaker 1: Think, yeah, so that's an interesting thing. I don't think
Speaker 1: this applies to cyber truck owners because I think you
Speaker 1: have to really know what you're doing, or like, you
Speaker 1: know what you're buying when you buy a cyber truck.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people who owned Tesla's, at least
Speaker 1: in La, they don't think about it that deeply. Well,
Speaker 1: like the girl who colors my hair owns a Tesla
Speaker 1: and she just wanted an electric car.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's because they're cheap ish, right with the
Speaker 2: Model three and great appliance is easy to get to
Speaker 2: a to B. You never have to go to gas
Speaker 2: station again. I get that, But if you're buying a
Speaker 2: cyber truck, yeah, you're paying extra money and I imagine
Speaker 2: you have some kind of weight in order to broadcast
Speaker 2: to the world that you know, I'm part of a
Speaker 2: club that you probably don't like.
Speaker 1: Let's get specific when you're talking about these values, Matt,
Speaker 1: what values are you elluding?
Speaker 2: We don't need to get that specific, right, but you're basically.
Speaker 1: You're supporting Elon's efforts with SpaceX and AI type things
Speaker 1: do okay. So the astration the specific you're like, if
Speaker 1: you buy a cyber truck, it does telegraph perhaps that
Speaker 1: you're okay with that agenda. That with the cyber truck
Speaker 1: I agree with. I don't think that applies to all
Speaker 1: Tesla drivers.
Speaker 2: No, of course not. That's not a Model three driver.
Speaker 2: That's not a Model ye driver.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that's.
Speaker 2: Saying like I'm a you know, a family or a
Speaker 2: person who's wanting maybe even smart with my money.
Speaker 1: You know, I know, it's really interesting to think about.
Speaker 2: It's it's a very different set of people.
Speaker 1: Do you think cars are more political now than they
Speaker 1: were in like the seventies and eighties.
Speaker 2: I can't really answer that because in the seventies and
Speaker 2: eighties I was mostly interested in cars only for design
Speaker 2: and motor and status. I wasn't really interested. I wasn't
Speaker 2: even born until you know, nineteen seventy three, So I
Speaker 2: wasn't thinking about politics until the eighties, And at that point,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I was more concerned with like the
Speaker 2: car itself than what it said about the person driving it.
Speaker 2: Don't maybe it did say something about you that you
Speaker 2: were I.
Speaker 1: Just remember, you know, old guys back in the day
Speaker 1: would say they would never drive a Ford, or they
Speaker 1: would never drive a Chevy or.
Speaker 2: You know, there's always been that.
Speaker 1: There's always that.
Speaker 2: But they're from the same place.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: If you get two guys from Lexing, Kentucky who both
Speaker 2: work for I don't know, Columbia Gas.
Speaker 1: You know they're gonna want to have a Corvette.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I'm just saying one will say I only
Speaker 2: want a Chevy and the other one will say I
Speaker 2: only want Afford. It has nothing to do with like
Speaker 2: their political socioeconomic Yeah, nothing to do.
Speaker 1: But now it does feel like I think cars are
Speaker 1: more political, and probably that's really around EV's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in general, I'd say that's probably true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is interesting.
Speaker 2: What are you doing here? I'm just as in New York.
Speaker 2: Usually usually you're in LA and we can get to
Speaker 2: see each other. Right now, we're in the same studio together, and.
Speaker 1: What I'm doing here is having fun and living my
Speaker 1: life in the greatest city this world has ever seen.
Speaker 2: Are you here for the championship?
Speaker 1: I mean, I was here on that fateful night on
Speaker 1: Saturday night, out in the streets with the people. It
Speaker 1: was one of the greatest nights of my life, a
Speaker 1: time to remember and a real benchmark for all New Yorkers.
Speaker 1: Will always say, where were you on the night the
Speaker 1: Knicks one and five? And I was in Dimes Square
Speaker 1: And I was actually with mister Enthusiast, mister Phillip Toledano
Speaker 1: also far over and his family watching the game, and
Speaker 1: we were sort of upstairs, and then we were out
Speaker 1: in the streets celebrating, and it was amazing. So yes,
Speaker 1: I I we had already planned to be here just
Speaker 1: because I love New York City and it feels like home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and I'm doing a little.
Speaker 1: Oh. Also, our anniversary was yesterday, married in New.
Speaker 2: York, so I had and you were married by mister Enthusiast.
Speaker 1: So we kind of just thought, let's be in the
Speaker 1: city for our anniversary.
Speaker 2: That's that's really cool. I was watching the game with
Speaker 2: my wife and it was so great to see basically
Speaker 2: Jalen Brunson carry the team to victory at the end.
Speaker 2: That guy is an absolute machine.
Speaker 1: He's not tall, it's your height.
Speaker 2: I am taller than Jal.
Speaker 1: That is incredible to me, the size of that guy's heart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's true because I mean, for those who
Speaker 2: didn't watch the game, it came down to stamina and endurance.
Speaker 2: At the end, everybody was so tired, you know, Wemby
Speaker 2: was like dead on the floor, and Brunton, I'm sure Brunson,
Speaker 2: who is far older and in let's just say, different
Speaker 2: shape than a lot of the other players, persevered. He
Speaker 2: just pushed through it. And he must have been just
Speaker 2: as tired, but he just put his shoulder down, drove
Speaker 2: it to the hoop, and put it in for I
Speaker 2: think he had like forty five points, yeah, of a
Speaker 2: total of ninety four. He just crushed it.
Speaker 1: I just have to say, too, there was something really
Speaker 1: special about it because New York, you know, you've got
Speaker 1: so many different sports teams that even if say the Yankees,
Speaker 1: when the Mets fans are not gonna support the Yankees
Speaker 1: no matter what. But somehow, with the Knicks, it's felt
Speaker 1: like all of New York had united around this team.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jets fans are not going to support the Giants, probably,
Speaker 1: but somehow that.
Speaker 2: Your books, I'm sure you're right. I bet you that
Speaker 2: there were Nets fans, Brooklyn Nets fans who were very
Speaker 2: happy about the Knick championship.
Speaker 1: Right, So somehow it just felt more unifying and completely
Speaker 1: it just felt like such elation. And I haven't felt
Speaker 1: that in a long time. Obviously I live in La now,
Speaker 1: but I'm back here a lot I had. I hadn't
Speaker 1: seen that in a long time, so it was very
Speaker 1: it was nice, a nice moment.
Speaker 2: I just googled it because Jalen Brunson lives up by
Speaker 2: me as car sale and uh, I've never seen him
Speaker 2: driving it, but reportedly he has a g Wagon well Love,
Speaker 2: no surprise, and has been spotted behind the wheel of
Speaker 2: a range Rover Love also no surprise. But he's partnered
Speaker 2: with Lucid Motors, which is interesting. I mean, they have money,
Speaker 2: you know. And also I really enjoyed for the few
Speaker 2: days that I drove a Lucid Air that hicle. You know,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to I don't think own one, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah you've driven, Yeah, I've driven it. The panel,
Speaker 1: The the panel covering the A pillar fell off. I
Speaker 1: mean it was like falling off.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're known for bad quality.
Speaker 1: They're they're not They're not great.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're way overpriced, I think. I'll be honest. I
Speaker 1: think they're very ugly and they're very overpriced. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think and they're losing money.
Speaker 2: This is not I don't think they're that like. The
Speaker 2: design isn't to me. I don't get it. I don't
Speaker 2: get it. But it doesn't look too much different than
Speaker 2: a Ferrari.
Speaker 1: Well that's the low bar.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: I don't have a compelling reason to purchase one. I
Speaker 1: would say even I could come up with a compelling reason,
Speaker 1: perhaps to buy a Tesla.
Speaker 2: Have you driven a Gravity No, I haven't gravity. I
Speaker 2: haven't driven on yet either. I felt like it was
Speaker 2: the air was a very solid vehicle, and it was
Speaker 2: super fast. But yeah, I don't think it.
Speaker 1: Speed is such a commodity these days.
Speaker 2: That's true. You know, that's true.
Speaker 1: It really I keep going back to I think I'm warned.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just getting old.
Speaker 2: You know, it's very fast, is my twenty twenty BMWM
Speaker 2: seven sixty. I love it. It's so fast. I was
Speaker 2: driving in this morning, and I realized that for the
Speaker 2: first time I may have to set like a speed
Speaker 2: warning or limiter because that, yeah, you can do that.
Speaker 2: And I just I keep looking down and realizing that
Speaker 2: I could, instead of ending up at work, end up
Speaker 2: in jail.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't want we can't have that, and.
Speaker 2: It's, uh, the V twelve is just it's like a
Speaker 2: locomotive that keeps on pulling, and it's addictive to put
Speaker 2: the pedal further and further down, you know what. The
Speaker 2: one of the best things about it is though it
Speaker 2: has all of these physical buttons everywhere that you can touch,
Speaker 2: or dials that you can turn, and not like a
Speaker 2: haptic touch, but like.
Speaker 1: An actual an actual knob.
Speaker 2: Button or a knob and it's honestly, it's it's like
Speaker 2: the best part of you know, I got just got
Speaker 2: this car after having driven the M two that I
Speaker 2: love so much a couple of weeks ago. But the
Speaker 2: M two has this giant like rectangular screen that looks
Speaker 2: like they just glued it on at the last minute,
Speaker 2: and also could be a serious injury risk if you
Speaker 2: get into an accident, and it's useless for controlling the car.
Speaker 2: It's like I have to dig deep into digital menus
Speaker 2: to find out how to do this or that. And
Speaker 2: if there's a button, even for the night vision in
Speaker 2: my car, there's a physical button that push.
Speaker 1: Because normally that would be buried under like five L.
Speaker 2: No, it's just a button to the left of the
Speaker 2: steering wheel, and I can see if there are any
Speaker 2: deer hiding off the side of the Taconic, so.
Speaker 1: You can't be too careful.
Speaker 2: It's just fantastic. I think I'm gonna go home right now.
Speaker 1: Go drive it.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I want to bring you down there.
Speaker 1: Okay, we got to hurry. We gotta hurry. That does
Speaker 1: it for this week's show, We've got to go down
Speaker 1: and look at a car real quick. Remember to follow
Speaker 1: and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere
Speaker 1: else you listen. You can also send us your comments.
Speaker 1: Email us at hot Pursuit at Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: Dot net, and check out Hannah's columns and stories on
Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com and the Bloomberg Business app. Go there
Speaker 2: for car reviews, events and stories that you won't find
Speaker 2: anywhere else. Find it all at Bloomberg dot com, Slash
Speaker 2: Pursuits slash Autos. I'm Matt Miller.
Speaker 1: And I'm Hannah Elliott. We'll be back in your podcast
Speaker 1: feed again next week