WEBVTT - 2023 Winners and Losers

0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is

0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:06.000
<v Speaker 1>hot pursuit.

0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.880
<v Speaker 2>All right. Today on the show, as it is nearly

0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:18.560
<v Speaker 2>the end of the year, we decided to do our

0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.919
<v Speaker 2>winners and losers for twenty twenty three. We both put

0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.600
<v Speaker 2>together kind of lists. I think they're slightly different in form,

0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:29.600
<v Speaker 2>but that's good. How do you want to do this, Hannah?

0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:31.960
<v Speaker 1>You should say your winners, and I say my winners,

0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.360
<v Speaker 1>and then you say your losers and I say my losers.

0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:36.760
<v Speaker 2>So the one winner that I kind of just thought

0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:40.240
<v Speaker 2>about today when I was driving over here is South

0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Korean automotive conglomerates that I think has made such an

0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.120
<v Speaker 2>impact on at least American consumers in twenty twenty three

0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:52.160
<v Speaker 2>that it's notable, and that is Hyundai and Kia. I'm

0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.720
<v Speaker 2>not sure exactly how they're connected. I know that Hyundai

0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.680
<v Speaker 2>owns like a thirty three percent stake in Kia, and

0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.720
<v Speaker 2>Kia owns various steaks and Hyundai subsidiaries, but suffice it

0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.040
<v Speaker 2>to say they're a group, right, so and Genesis don't

0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.720
<v Speaker 2>get yeah, and they have Genesis to that's the Hyundai

0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.520
<v Speaker 2>luxuryary in which Kia has a stick but so you know,

0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.000
<v Speaker 2>I just heard about the hypes surrounding the Tell You

0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.039
<v Speaker 2>Ride last year, and this year it's just like I

0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.319
<v Speaker 2>finally people have started to be able to buy them,

0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.959
<v Speaker 2>because the wait list was almost a year last year.

0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Plus there is the EV six, which Kia makes. I

0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:31.840
<v Speaker 2>always confuse. One makes the EV six, I think, and

0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.840
<v Speaker 2>the other one makes the Ionic five. Yes, yes, those

0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.640
<v Speaker 2>are the two hot hatch like electric vehicles that are just,

0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.959
<v Speaker 2>I mean amazing. I've driven the Kia version. I prefer

0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.559
<v Speaker 2>the look of the Hyundai version. They're mechanically the same

0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.920
<v Speaker 2>under the skin, They're awesome. Yeah, especially for the price

0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.080
<v Speaker 2>because you can get in at like forty five grand

0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.520
<v Speaker 2>and have an amazing, super fast time the GT I

0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:58.800
<v Speaker 2>wish it had wider wheels. There things I would change,

0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.840
<v Speaker 2>but it's so fast that made a friend of mine

0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:01.200
<v Speaker 2>throw up.

0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Do you think, Okay, that's impressive. Do you think that

0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.639
<v Speaker 1>the interiors stand up better than like big three type

0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.160
<v Speaker 1>vehicles on the same level in terms of quality?

0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know. In terms of quality. I am

0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:23.160
<v Speaker 2>admittedly spoiled, and I like higher price cars both to

0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.480
<v Speaker 2>drive and to buy nice things. But I think you know,

0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:30.280
<v Speaker 2>at that price point. I mean, the interior seemed awesome

0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.919
<v Speaker 2>to me. It's not too much. It's not a luxury car,

0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and that's not what you expect of it. But they

0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:39.120
<v Speaker 2>I think the layouts were elegant and I never had

0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.000
<v Speaker 2>a problem figuring out how to use them. Plus, they

0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.760
<v Speaker 2>have the EV nine coming out, which I think is

0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:48.919
<v Speaker 2>universally accepted as the best three row evy that you're

0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.760
<v Speaker 2>going to be able to buy. Yes, in any price point.

0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.720
<v Speaker 1>Drove it, loved it was really right, So I drove

0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.720
<v Speaker 1>it shockingly. Yeah, because we don't even we don't typically

0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.880
<v Speaker 1>cover Kia and Hyundai on pursuits.

0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.919
<v Speaker 2>They're reaching on price right, they really are fifty five gran.

0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and they did say, hey, look we're going to

0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:08.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of shoot for Rivian, We're going to kind of

0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:13.399
<v Speaker 1>shoot for Volvo maybe some land Rover crossover. So they

0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:17.400
<v Speaker 1>are making no bones about the fact that they're ready

0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.520
<v Speaker 1>to fight a little bit for consumers. Yeah, and I

0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:22.880
<v Speaker 1>was really pleasantly surprised. I thought it was great well.

0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:26.280
<v Speaker 2>And the logo change that Kia did wasn't this year.

0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.720
<v Speaker 2>But I think all of these things combined just make

0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.400
<v Speaker 2>it a huge twenty twenty three winner. The logo I

0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.840
<v Speaker 2>think allows the brand to be more aspirational than it

0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.839
<v Speaker 2>was because it was an eco logo and now it's

0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:39.640
<v Speaker 2>super cool.

0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:42.120
<v Speaker 1>It's like nine inch nails. I know I've said that before,

0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.520
<v Speaker 1>but I can't unsee it. But it's true. That is

0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.600
<v Speaker 1>a case of you know, sometimes logo rebrands don't go

0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.760
<v Speaker 1>very well, but this one I think was great.

0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.839
<v Speaker 2>Right, And you mentioned Genesis, like that's they make head

0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.240
<v Speaker 2>turning cars. Just yesterday the Shopwright parking lot, I saw

0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.560
<v Speaker 2>a green and I love any car maker that puts

0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:05.440
<v Speaker 2>out of green Genesis suv and I just turned around

0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.480
<v Speaker 2>like what's that? Yeah? Yeah, cool?

0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:10.400
<v Speaker 1>And everybody tells me that in Korea that is really

0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.520
<v Speaker 1>the status symbol car and I don't think that's going

0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:16.240
<v Speaker 1>to change. I think that's only going to increase.

0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.360
<v Speaker 2>And their quality has increased. I mean, the cars are

0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.680
<v Speaker 2>fun to drive, they're affordable. The prices are rising, obviously,

0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:28.760
<v Speaker 2>but you know they're still fairly affordable considering the market.

0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.239
<v Speaker 2>So I just think Hondai Kia is just a huge

0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:31.640
<v Speaker 2>winner in.

0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Twenty I love it, Yeah, I love it. Okay. My

0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.640
<v Speaker 1>top winner is not going to be a surprise to anyone.

0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:41.760
<v Speaker 1>It's Ferrari everybody wants to be Ferrari. Of course, you know,

0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.040
<v Speaker 1>they are sold out until twenty twenty five. They've got

0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.880
<v Speaker 1>wildly high margins, they've got resilient demand. They are doing

0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:55.200
<v Speaker 1>pretty well in this economy, you know, where some automakers

0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:59.280
<v Speaker 1>like Mercedes and BMW are really susceptible to high interest

0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.520
<v Speaker 1>rates and sort of thing. Ferrari skims the top of that.

0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.680
<v Speaker 1>They're kind of like Urmes. A lot of the analysis

0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.760
<v Speaker 1>that I read from our intelligence side here at Bloomberg

0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.600
<v Speaker 1>compares Ferrari to Armes and other a couple other high

0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.080
<v Speaker 1>fashion brands like Brunello Cucinelli, just because of the fact

0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.680
<v Speaker 1>that they're they're really hard to get. Their owners are

0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.520
<v Speaker 1>not just affluent, but truly wealthy. You know, they've raised

0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.159
<v Speaker 1>sales guidance twice this year. You know, every analyst report

0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.320
<v Speaker 1>says that every other automaker, especially Portia, you know, people

0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.840
<v Speaker 1>are targeting Ferrari, and they're actually not even close. It's

0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:38.919
<v Speaker 1>just in a league of its own. I want to

0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:39.960
<v Speaker 1>talk about the Proro song.

0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.600
<v Speaker 2>What I was just gonna say, So what I mean

0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:44.559
<v Speaker 2>the thing is all the things you said about Ferrari

0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.599
<v Speaker 2>could be said almost every year, right, Yes, yes, but

0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.080
<v Speaker 2>it's a huge winner in the stock market too.

0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this was a challenging year and it didn't

0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:54.040
<v Speaker 1>really touch Ferrari at all.

0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.839
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, well, I think the one thing that Ferrari's

0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.840
<v Speaker 2>done this year that's the most notable that even non

0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:05.080
<v Speaker 2>gearheads would know, is they put out that no suv.

0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.280
<v Speaker 1>No. No, First, Matt, I have to ask, have you

0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:08.840
<v Speaker 1>driven it?

0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:10.279
<v Speaker 2>I have not driven it?

0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:12.560
<v Speaker 1>No, So what I have?

0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.279
<v Speaker 2>So I've neither driven it nor have I seen it

0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.760
<v Speaker 2>in real life? Oh god, I've only seen pictures of it. Okay, right,

0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.359
<v Speaker 2>the pictures I have seen it is horrendous.

0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you this. Do you think that you

0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.320
<v Speaker 1>come off better in person are a photograph?

0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Definitely in person? And that's why I make that caveat

0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.920
<v Speaker 2>That's why they get a caby. Also, you've driven it,

0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:35.800
<v Speaker 2>so you're gonna have a better idea of it in

0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.720
<v Speaker 2>the specs alone. You know, Lamborghini put out an suv

0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.800
<v Speaker 2>that really looks cool, but it's a disappointing powertrain. If

0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be honest, Yeah, you're kidding me. You get

0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.000
<v Speaker 2>the same powertrain in a Porsche or an Audi.

0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.240
<v Speaker 1>We haven't discussed this. I'm a big Ears fan. I

0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:57.440
<v Speaker 1>thought it was fabulous, so fun and really captured the

0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.799
<v Speaker 1>look Unlike I would agree with you the pro Songgua

0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.800
<v Speaker 1>doesn't look great in the photographs that have been circulated.

0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:06.440
<v Speaker 1>I do agree with you in that, but in person

0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.880
<v Speaker 1>it looks a bit better. But I will say Lamborghini

0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:10.760
<v Speaker 1>did beat it on that point that I think the

0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Urs really captured the Lamborghini ethos better than fra.

0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Guy able to do. Love the Urus. I've driven it

0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.560
<v Speaker 2>a bunch in Italy, in Germany, and they got here

0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.679
<v Speaker 2>in New York. Yeah, I think it's the interior is sweet.

0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.240
<v Speaker 2>All of that is great. I guess what I could

0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.920
<v Speaker 2>say the same thing about a Cayenne a Cayenne Turbo.

0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.400
<v Speaker 1>You would be this amazing, You'd be that excited about it.

0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.160
<v Speaker 2>No meaning, here's the thing. If we're going to talk

0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.960
<v Speaker 2>about cars that I can't now afford and probably never

0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.920
<v Speaker 2>will be able to afford anyway, it's kind of we're

0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.080
<v Speaker 2>talking about these myths, right and to me, there has

0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.520
<v Speaker 2>to be something extra about a Ferrari and a Lamborghini,

0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:52.920
<v Speaker 2>a Cayenne an Audi using the same powertrain. It takes

0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.160
<v Speaker 2>a little away from me of the Urus and Lamborghini

0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.360
<v Speaker 2>will say, well, we've made it our own. Fine. The

0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.200
<v Speaker 2>point is it's about charged V eight. Now give me

0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.200
<v Speaker 2>at least a ten like a Hurrican or a twelve

0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:08.240
<v Speaker 2>like Ferrari Zone. So I applaud them for at least

0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:08.600
<v Speaker 2>doing that.

0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:11.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, we'll see next year how sales go. I

0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:16.520
<v Speaker 1>don't disagree with you that it doesn't photograph great, but

0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:18.040
<v Speaker 1>in person you've seen the meme.

0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course it looks so much like the Masta.

0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.400
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to say it, but it does. But honestly,

0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.560
<v Speaker 1>having driven it and photographed it extensively in person, it

0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.559
<v Speaker 1>does look better in person, and it is fun to drive.

0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.200
<v Speaker 2>So all right, so I look forward to check right

0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.120
<v Speaker 2>out here. Great, it's cool no matter what. Anyway, I

0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.640
<v Speaker 2>have a winner that you previously would have disagreed with

0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.400
<v Speaker 2>me on. But I think I'm winning you over, and

0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.959
<v Speaker 2>I think the American buying public is being won over

0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.880
<v Speaker 2>as well. Hybrids. I've loved hybrids since the I three

0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.480
<v Speaker 2>and the I eight to BMW. They came with range extenders.

0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.600
<v Speaker 2>They were electric cars that came with range extenders. I

0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.680
<v Speaker 2>still love both of those cars, even the three, so

0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:04.640
<v Speaker 2>fun to drive in city. Hybrids are now the big winner.

0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.240
<v Speaker 2>And I think link to this is also Toyota. Okay,

0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Toyota has to be a huge winner here because all

0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:16.160
<v Speaker 2>of these bleeding heart liberal news organizations were writing hand

0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.800
<v Speaker 2>ringing stories about how Toyota has lost because they haven't

0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.640
<v Speaker 2>invested enough in evs. Right. The New York Times wrote

0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.440
<v Speaker 2>a piece like that in September. I think we wrote

0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:28.199
<v Speaker 2>a piece like that too. But the truth is, electric vehicles,

0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.720
<v Speaker 2>as we know from last week, are sitting on the

0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.280
<v Speaker 2>lot for more than fifty days before they sell. Ice

0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:36.480
<v Speaker 2>vehicles are sitting on the lot for forty days before

0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:41.400
<v Speaker 2>they sell. Hybrids only take eighteen days to disappear. Consumers

0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.280
<v Speaker 2>are snapping them up, and big companies like Ford have

0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:49.600
<v Speaker 2>who were making these full on like Sierra Club pushes

0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:51.920
<v Speaker 2>into evs, have now said, well, you know what, that's

0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.600
<v Speaker 2>maybe not such a great idea. It's gonna cost us

0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.280
<v Speaker 2>four and a half billion dollars this year, and losses

0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.960
<v Speaker 2>are saying we're gonna, we're gonna tilt words hybrids. I

0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.280
<v Speaker 2>think that is a pragmatic of Ford be the smart

0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.080
<v Speaker 2>move because I feel like hybrids are a winner for

0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:11.200
<v Speaker 2>the consumer. And see Toyota turns out looking pretty smart

0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:11.680
<v Speaker 2>in the end.

0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're right about that. Here's my question. Do you

0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.520
<v Speaker 1>actually think people charge the battery of their hybrid. I

0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.960
<v Speaker 1>know you do, But my whole.

0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Thing is like, they don't have to be all plug

0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:23.880
<v Speaker 2>in hybrids.

0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you're talking mild hybrid and plug in.

0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Mild hybrids are huge winners as well. Okay, I mean

0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:31.880
<v Speaker 2>that much bigger winners. In fact, the CEO, I think

0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:36.120
<v Speaker 2>in the CEO of BMW North America was telling me like,

0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.800
<v Speaker 2>it's not about the plug in hybrid, because it's not

0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.200
<v Speaker 2>about the plug for consumers who don't want full evs.

0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.079
<v Speaker 2>They don't want to mess with that. No, they don't

0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.240
<v Speaker 2>want to install something new in the garage. They don't

0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.200
<v Speaker 2>want to figure out how to you know, they don't

0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.600
<v Speaker 2>want to wait in line at a charging station. They're

0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.360
<v Speaker 2>just the mild hybrid is enough because you still are

0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:55.920
<v Speaker 2>going to get I mean, what do you get on

0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.320
<v Speaker 2>a prius in terms of miles per gallony?

0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:03.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's seventy eight eighty. I do think you're totally right.

0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.520
<v Speaker 1>You know, we keep thinking maybe people will be a

0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.640
<v Speaker 1>little altruistic or whatever, but I think there's been no

0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:15.439
<v Speaker 1>movement at all in consumer readiness to inconvenience themselves. When

0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.920
<v Speaker 1>it comes to electric vehicles, if it is at all inconvenient,

0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:20.880
<v Speaker 1>they don't want it. They don't have the time, they

0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:22.839
<v Speaker 1>don't have the energy, they don't have the patience. You know,

0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.160
<v Speaker 1>it's got to be exactly a one to one switch

0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:26.920
<v Speaker 1>or they don't want it.

0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.040
<v Speaker 2>By the way, according to topspeed dot Com twenty twenty three,

0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.199
<v Speaker 2>Toyota Prius gets fifty seven miles.

0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:33.840
<v Speaker 1>To get to combined.

0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but that's amazing. You know, I drive cars they

0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:37.640
<v Speaker 2>can combine.

0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Another winner, I'm gonna say Rolls Royce, mostly because

0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:50.280
<v Speaker 1>they are this stayed, strong and steady brand. This is

0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.040
<v Speaker 1>the year that they first brought out their first electric car,

0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.200
<v Speaker 1>the five hundred thousand dollars Specter.

0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Spector is such a great sector.

0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.800
<v Speaker 1>It's an awesome name. It's like a James Bond movie.

0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:02.120
<v Speaker 1>I've driven it. I liked it.

0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh really, I don't know. You've driven.

0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:04.920
<v Speaker 1>I went to Cape Town to drive it.

0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh yeah. I would give my right arm to

0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:13.560
<v Speaker 2>drive it. I'm left handed, and I'm sure it's an automatic.

0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:14.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it is.

0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.559
<v Speaker 1>It's more Rolls Royce than Rolls Royce that's what I

0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.680
<v Speaker 1>would say, Like Rolls Royce is the brand that makes

0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.880
<v Speaker 1>itself all about smooth, silent ride like a ghost. Well,

0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 1>the specter being electric is exactly that. You know, if

0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:33.120
<v Speaker 1>there's any application for electric propulsion, it kind of I

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.520
<v Speaker 1>can see it in Rolls Royce and actually Rolls Royce

0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.360
<v Speaker 1>the executives at Rolls Royce had said one hundred years

0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 1>ago that ultimately they believe their vehicles would go electric,

0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.720
<v Speaker 1>and that's one hundred years ago. So yeah, spector, big fan.

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Rolls Royce also this year brought out their thirty million

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.480
<v Speaker 1>dollar droptail. We touched on it a week or two ago.

0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 1>You know this business where they make literally.

0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.719
<v Speaker 2>One thirty million dollar jay Z bought it.

0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:06.679
<v Speaker 1>No, no, they tell you no. The publicists sort of

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.679
<v Speaker 1>started a whispering campaign about that, but that's not accurate.

0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:15.600
<v Speaker 1>So these multi multi million dollar one off bespoke creations

0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.240
<v Speaker 1>that are basically designed from the ground up by ultra

0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:23.679
<v Speaker 1>wealthy families is a really big business for Rolls Royce

0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.240
<v Speaker 1>and they're doing multiple of them a year, so that's

0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.000
<v Speaker 1>really good. Their CEO, Torsten Muller oat Vost, just announced

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.160
<v Speaker 1>his retirement after fourteen years. He really brought the company

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 1>from the dark ages into now the world of evs.

0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:44.600
<v Speaker 1>He arrived before Ghost, before colon In really modernized the company.

0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.440
<v Speaker 1>And then just the fact that their order books are

0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.760
<v Speaker 1>full for years to come. You know, they hired more

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:55.079
<v Speaker 1>than one hundred people in twenty twenty two to basically

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.760
<v Speaker 1>help fill out their order books making these cars. They're

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.280
<v Speaker 1>just so strong and solid. And you know, while we

0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.800
<v Speaker 1>see so much volatility, the people who are buying Rolls

0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Royces are not affected.

0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't I don't disagree. It's one of

0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:14.439
<v Speaker 2>my favorite brands of all time. You know, one of

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.079
<v Speaker 2>my favorite cars of all time is the Ghost. I

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.760
<v Speaker 2>drove it first drove it in twenty ten with Torsten Amazing,

0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.400
<v Speaker 2>and that was just around the island of Manhattan. But

0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 2>I already knew like this is the greatest luxury car.

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.000
<v Speaker 2>It's another one of those brands I probably will never

0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:30.760
<v Speaker 2>be able to afford in my lifetime to buy my

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 2>own new one.

0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I was going to say, you know, you

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:35.160
<v Speaker 1>can get an older one for pretty cheap.

0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I know somebody who has one, and I am dying

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.160
<v Speaker 2>to drive the Specter because I've read so many car

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 2>magazine You know that UK car magazine that's just called Car.

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.560
<v Speaker 2>She they listed as I think the best electric car

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 2>money can buy, like if money's no options, And obviously,

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.120
<v Speaker 2>because it is clearly the pinnacle of luxury Rolls Royce

0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.640
<v Speaker 2>and Electric totally makes sense because what you want in

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.520
<v Speaker 2>that kind of car is boltloads of torque.

0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and you want no sound frankly exactly, That's exactly right. Yeah,

0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 1>big fan, all right.

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:19.680
<v Speaker 2>My final third winner is Tesla, which almost pains me

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 2>to say because I'm annoyed by the company for so

0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:27.280
<v Speaker 2>many reasons. Oh wow, And I think the design is

0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 2>like long in the tooth. I think the interiors are

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 2>too spartan Elon Musk he like bought Twitter like, which

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 2>doesn't seem terribly intelligent to me, but especially not for

0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>forty four billion dollars. But this doc has crushed it,

0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean crushed it. I wanted to buy Tesla when

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I first heard about the brand and they were coming

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.240
<v Speaker 2>to market, and Jason Harper gave me a ride in

0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:01.520
<v Speaker 2>the Roadster, which I oh wow, which was I thought

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 2>was so awesome. You know, I had never driven I'd

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:05.880
<v Speaker 2>never driven an electric car before.

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh that was your first?

0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah wow? And I can't even remember if I was.

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:10.680
<v Speaker 1>No.

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>I think he let me like drive it around a

0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.480
<v Speaker 2>parking lot. Ye, mainly Jason drove me up to Bear Mountain.

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 2>We barely made it back. I thought, Man, I want

0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 2>to buy these shares. I couldn't. I can't buy shares

0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:25.320
<v Speaker 2>because I'm an anchor on Bloomberg TV. Bloomberg journalists can't

0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.480
<v Speaker 2>do that. We would. I would have to disclose it.

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 2>It would be a pain and it really wouldn't work

0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.080
<v Speaker 2>for a journalist. But if I had, I would be

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 2>so loaded. And the shares are up again this year,

0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 2>more than double, and we're not even at the end

0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.720
<v Speaker 2>of the year yet. It's an eight hundred and twenty

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.000
<v Speaker 2>billion dollar company, which is like if you put Ford

0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.520
<v Speaker 2>together with GM and then multiplied them by eight, they

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.840
<v Speaker 2>still be smaller. I mean, even with the silliness that

0:16:54.960 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 2>the cyber truck is, it's a colossus. Tesla is a colossus. Yeah.

0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.560
<v Speaker 1>I just can't get excited about the cars. That's too bad.

0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, oh, yeah, I agree with you on that.

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm just I have two on my lists that are

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:13.440
<v Speaker 2>like from the investment.

0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was gonna say, that's like an on paper assessment.

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.359
<v Speaker 2>And I'll get to the other one. But you have

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 2>your last winner.

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I was just gonna say, I think consumers won

0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 1>this year. I mean we have. This is the first

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 1>year we have like dozens of evs to choose from.

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.919
<v Speaker 1>Every auto maker, every luxury auto maker is all about

0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 1>customization and making the car your own and offering more

0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 1>options and more packages for details. And I just think

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.480
<v Speaker 1>consumers have more choices than ever. Cars are safer than ever,

0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.560
<v Speaker 1>there are more opportunities to customize and make the car

0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:49.359
<v Speaker 1>feel like your own. I mean it's basically seamless now

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.840
<v Speaker 1>between your house, your phone, and your car. These are

0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.399
<v Speaker 1>all huge wins. And this is a great time to

0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.160
<v Speaker 1>be a consumer because you can you can get kind

0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:57.880
<v Speaker 1>of whatever you want.

0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.320
<v Speaker 2>I get what you're saying. Oh no, I disagree on

0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:06.000
<v Speaker 2>a couple levels. Affordability is like out of control, like unaffordable.

0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.359
<v Speaker 1>Well I didn't say. I didn't say cars were affordable, No,

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 1>I know, but consumers like.

0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 2>What can you buy? Right if you're a regular person

0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.159
<v Speaker 2>in terms of key of cars, even Akia is a

0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.399
<v Speaker 2>reach in terms of new cars for the average American, right,

0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean what I was For example, I drove the

0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Nissan Araya. Recently, I thought, man, this is a sweet car,

0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.639
<v Speaker 2>and I went to configure one and I was already

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.920
<v Speaker 2>got over sixty thousand dollars. Yeah, the I mean the

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.000
<v Speaker 2>F one fifty Lightning. I haven't driven yet. Actually it's

0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.760
<v Speaker 2>one of my losers, which I'll get to in a second,

0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.800
<v Speaker 2>but it's so expensive that I don't think it would

0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 2>be the kind of choice my wife would approve, you know.

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean they're just out of control expensive, and it

0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:54.359
<v Speaker 2>annoys me that they're moving away from the cars of

0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.479
<v Speaker 2>my youth. You know, there's no more muscle. Those are

0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:01.320
<v Speaker 2>all dead. V eight's are like practice illegal, you know.

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Ford started moving away from the vas long ago,

0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:06.920
<v Speaker 2>and it's just been heartbreaking for me when they took

0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.840
<v Speaker 2>it out of the Raptor and now it's an ecoboostah

0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:12.840
<v Speaker 2>that's like tear jerking. You know.

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.520
<v Speaker 1>This might be a little controversial, but all of your

0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:19.520
<v Speaker 1>points that you're just saying kind of support this philosophy

0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.840
<v Speaker 1>that I personally have, which is I don't buy new cars. Yes,

0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.879
<v Speaker 1>like the bigger the bigger picture here is if you

0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:31.160
<v Speaker 1>want to help save the world for me, in my mind,

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.280
<v Speaker 1>don't buy new stuff that don't be consuming. Use what

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.320
<v Speaker 1>already exists, you know, and that I'm such a big

0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.040
<v Speaker 1>believer in like, use what's already out there, don't buy,

0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.879
<v Speaker 1>don't create a need for people to manufacture more stuff.

0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 2>No, you're you're one hundred percent right. I agree, and uh,

0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.800
<v Speaker 2>And I aim to stop buying new cars. I really do.

0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.800
<v Speaker 2>In fact, my last car that I bought knew was

0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:03.359
<v Speaker 2>the Dodge Challenger, which is like actually thirteen or fourteen

0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:04.120
<v Speaker 2>years old, right.

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's almost vintage by now, I don't.

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Know, and it's a few more years. And I wanted

0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.320
<v Speaker 2>all the options that I wanted. No, it's one hundred

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.639
<v Speaker 2>percent true. And there are a lot of cars Porsche,

0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.159
<v Speaker 2>for example, I mean, yeah, I'd love to have an

0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.080
<v Speaker 2>ST yeah me, but I wouldn't we all, I can't

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.679
<v Speaker 2>afford that, right, And I wouldn't really want base nine

0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.920
<v Speaker 2>to eleven right now, they're amazing interesting. Really why I

0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:27.840
<v Speaker 2>could is that an ego? I could buy a nine

0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.600
<v Speaker 2>nine one or I could buy nine six four. Oh yeah,

0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean for less money, I could buy a great

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:35.360
<v Speaker 2>condition nine six four.

0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.360
<v Speaker 1>You'd rather get an older one than a brand new? Yeah,

0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:38.400
<v Speaker 1>because you get a better one.

0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, then you have a air cooled motor. You have

0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, an old stick, you have the classic classic look.

0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I love looking the new ones and they're amazing.

0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I drove the Caraarer Tea, yeah, and I fell in love.

0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 1>So cool.

0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.480
<v Speaker 2>But I could for less money, I could get a

0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.960
<v Speaker 2>sweet old one, and that's even a better kind of keepsake. Porsche,

0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.840
<v Speaker 2>by the way, kicks off my list of losers. Oh wow, wow,

0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 2>wow wow. This is another end a seat based, investment

0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.080
<v Speaker 2>based and I mean, I don't know if it's fair,

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:11.399
<v Speaker 2>but his shares are losing. They're down fourteen percent in

0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:15.639
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, which is stocks are on fire. Every

0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:20.040
<v Speaker 2>other major car maker in the Western world, right and

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.600
<v Speaker 2>in Asia. I'm not sure about Chinese public trade car

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.120
<v Speaker 2>to know. If I look at Toyota, if I look

0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.760
<v Speaker 2>at Grenaud, if I look at Honda, if I look

0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:37.520
<v Speaker 2>at BMW, Mercedes Volkswagen former owner. If I look at uh,

0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:43.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, Ford, General Motors, Stilantis crushing it right, second

0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.920
<v Speaker 2>biggest winner. If I look at any other major car maker,

0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:49.679
<v Speaker 2>they're all up for the year. Porsche shares are down

0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:51.560
<v Speaker 2>fifteen percent. Why what happened?

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:53.520
<v Speaker 1>What are you seeing? I do not know.

0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.119
<v Speaker 2>I think they just went out too expensive. So you know, folks,

0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:59.439
<v Speaker 2>fagn did a great job of selling Porsche, maybe at

0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:02.960
<v Speaker 2>the ex act right time. They sold at the top. Yeah,

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.080
<v Speaker 2>and if you bought those shares, I mean, even if

0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.720
<v Speaker 2>you've got syndicate in the IPO, you're just yeah, you're

0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:09.600
<v Speaker 2>just treading water.

0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:11.720
<v Speaker 1>I know that has been a bit of a disappointment

0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.040
<v Speaker 1>because you know, they they were thinking, hey, maybe we

0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.679
<v Speaker 1>can close the gap with Ferrari. Back to my evergreen

0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.119
<v Speaker 1>Ferrari is a winner, and it's it's only widening. And

0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.359
<v Speaker 1>I do think Porsche is more susceptible to some of

0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:28.639
<v Speaker 1>these factors like interest rate, high interest rates than Ferrari

0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.920
<v Speaker 1>buyer of course, yes, because that hurts them. Hurts the margins.

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Ferrari has like twenty percent margins. Yeah, only

0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:35.600
<v Speaker 2>Tesla can do that.

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Rolls, Royce and Bentley have pretty healthy margins too, Like yes.

0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Hire they're owned right. Yeah. Before Ferrari was spun out

0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:48.000
<v Speaker 2>of Fiat, Porsia was the most profitable car maker in

0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.680
<v Speaker 2>the world. That was our Bloomberg News tagline. We'd write

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Porsha the most profitable car maker in the world. Then

0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.480
<v Speaker 2>the whole folkswaging fiasco happened, then Tesla was invented, and

0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.000
<v Speaker 2>now Ferrari. But at the time, you know, their margins

0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.680
<v Speaker 2>were the end of everybody, and now they're they're good,

0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:04.200
<v Speaker 2>but they're not.

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 1>The last time I checked, they were still the most

0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:10.040
<v Speaker 1>profitable brand at VW and the nine to eleven of

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:13.639
<v Speaker 1>course has the highest margin at Porsche, which is not

0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 1>for nothing. But that's a real bold statement that you're

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:18.400
<v Speaker 1>going to put them on that list.

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.760
<v Speaker 2>But you know, well, I just maybe that's not fair

0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:23.679
<v Speaker 2>just from an I figured I should throw in one

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.440
<v Speaker 2>from an investment perspective since it's flunger of course. No, yeah, no,

0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:28.400
<v Speaker 2>obviously I'm a Porsche fanboy.

0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:29.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you don't need a disclaimer.

0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Had a nine to eleven and I loved it so much,

0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:33.720
<v Speaker 2>and I wouldn't have sold it if I didn't have to.

0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:36.760
<v Speaker 1>They made car seats for no.

0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:39.040
<v Speaker 2>No, you know, I sold it. I bought my nine

0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.400
<v Speaker 2>to eleven here and it was like my dream car.

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 2>I had finally achieved one of my number one dreams.

0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:49.879
<v Speaker 2>And then I had had to move for work to Germany. Okay,

0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:51.440
<v Speaker 2>I paid to ship it over there. It was like

0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:54.879
<v Speaker 2>four or five thousand dollars, and I thank goodness I

0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:57.159
<v Speaker 2>did that because driving my nine to eleven on the

0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Autobahn for five years was worth it. Ith. But then

0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:04.119
<v Speaker 2>they moved me back here to New York, you know,

0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:07.000
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the pandemic, and the shipping costs

0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:09.240
<v Speaker 2>had gone up four fold. I called all around and

0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 2>I was getting twenty thousand dollars quotes.

0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I'm a freighter.

0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Seventy thousand dollars car back to America for you know,

0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:19.840
<v Speaker 2>as a twenty fourteen nine nine to one. Ass loved it,

0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:22.200
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not spending that much money to ship it

0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.320
<v Speaker 2>back on a freighter. No, so I sold it there.

0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.280
<v Speaker 1>And you did you come up on the car selling

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:29.240
<v Speaker 1>it in Germany or no?

0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.320
<v Speaker 2>I lost a little bit, Okay, I got it for

0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:36.120
<v Speaker 2>I got it used in twenty fourteen for ninety grand,

0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:38.760
<v Speaker 2>which was a great deal, and then I sold it

0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:41.680
<v Speaker 2>for like seventy okay, well in euros, Yeah, so maybe

0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:42.400
<v Speaker 2>seventy five grand.

0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:44.600
<v Speaker 1>Sure, all right, sorry for your loss.

0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I loved it. Someday when the kids go to college,

0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:51.920
<v Speaker 2>graduate from college, or sometime after, that's what's your losing.

0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:54.399
<v Speaker 1>The first one I'm going to say, are just in

0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:59.520
<v Speaker 1>general electric pickup trucks, because this was something at least,

0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:02.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, for me that I was kind of watching

0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:04.640
<v Speaker 1>for the past few years, like, oh, this would really

0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:07.119
<v Speaker 1>make sense. The best selling vehicle in America for the

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:12.200
<v Speaker 1>past four decades has been a truck. It makes sense

0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 1>that you know, you could put him in fleets electrify him.

0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:21.080
<v Speaker 1>But it is not panned out that way exactly. Yeah,

0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:23.399
<v Speaker 1>it does not panned out that way at all. I mean,

0:25:23.760 --> 0:25:27.240
<v Speaker 1>like you mentioned, we've got EV's sitting on lots. Ford

0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:31.040
<v Speaker 1>and GM have walked back targets for production and sales,

0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 1>and you know, it's just they're kind of hedging everything.

0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Now cyber truck is like what years, four years later.

0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Ten they've delivered ten. Yeah, you know, Jim Farley saying

0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:46.480
<v Speaker 1>he wants to focus on hybrids. It just it's the

0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 1>first time that I'm like, oh, the future here is

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 1>uncertain with respect to the electric pickup truck.

0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Now, I will say my second loser was the F

0:25:57.160 --> 0:25:59.680
<v Speaker 2>one fifteen Lightning, so kind of the same thing and

0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:03.440
<v Speaker 2>for the same reasons, mainly because you know, Ford's lost

0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:05.600
<v Speaker 2>They were gonna lose three billion this year. Now they're

0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:07.520
<v Speaker 2>going to lose four and a half billion now maybe

0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:10.800
<v Speaker 2>more on electric cars. They've cut their F one fifty

0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Lightning production in half from thirty two hundred a week

0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:15.960
<v Speaker 2>to sixteen hundred a week. Yeah, I shot they had

0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:19.240
<v Speaker 2>like a waiting list. But I will give the caveat that.

0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 2>I have not driven the F one fifty Lightning, nor

0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:23.639
<v Speaker 2>have I driven any electric pickup have you.

0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I've driven the Ford and I thought it was great.

0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:30.560
<v Speaker 2>Because my buddy Paul Sweeney spent a week in the

0:26:30.640 --> 0:26:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Lightning and he loved it. And he's a BMW fanboy

0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:37.240
<v Speaker 2>so and he likes an M five, he likes a

0:26:37.280 --> 0:26:39.600
<v Speaker 2>sports car, and he was a fan. But he loved it.

0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:42.320
<v Speaker 2>He never he didn't ever drive a pickup truck before

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:45.800
<v Speaker 2>in his life, you know. And I don't think he'd

0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:48.280
<v Speaker 2>ever driven an electric vehicle either. So he spent a

0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:50.239
<v Speaker 2>week with this and he's you know, charging it at

0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:52.440
<v Speaker 2>his golf club, you know. But he said it was amazing.

0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:54.920
<v Speaker 2>He loved it so much. Even the he had no

0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:58.159
<v Speaker 2>range anxiety, he had no problem keeping it charged like

0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 2>he was. He was a It was just too expensive.

0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think the expense is a huge thing, you know,

0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:07.240
<v Speaker 1>that they put all of this effort into electrifying something

0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:09.000
<v Speaker 1>that's really big and really heavy, and you kind of

0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:11.880
<v Speaker 1>have to charge a lot to earn your money back.

0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:15.440
<v Speaker 1>And I don't get the sense that the guys going

0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:17.879
<v Speaker 1>out to the work sites every day in Los Angeles

0:27:18.840 --> 0:27:26.920
<v Speaker 1>want an electric vehicle. Okay, so my next loser is Lucid. Yeah,

0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:30.000
<v Speaker 1>this has not been a good year for Lucid, which

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, initially had such fanfare and such a glow

0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:37.080
<v Speaker 1>about it as you know, the second second coming of

0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:38.879
<v Speaker 1>a true Tesla competitor.

0:27:39.040 --> 0:27:41.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, the top of the line Lucid Air has

0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:43.920
<v Speaker 2>four horse power.

0:27:44.080 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but you know that's the only car they make.

0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 1>And the problem is they can't increase factory output or

0:27:50.960 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 1>hike prices because there isn't sufficient demand for the one

0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:57.800
<v Speaker 1>car they make. They're losing money on every car they sell.

0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:01.440
<v Speaker 1>They were initially valued at like fifty five billion dollars

0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 1>when the Saudi's bought them, and now they're worth just

0:28:04.960 --> 0:28:08.800
<v Speaker 1>over five billion. They're just they're not cash flow positive.

0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 1>They've laid off eighteen percent of their workforce this year.

0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:15.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, they're not meeting production numbers as it is.

0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:20.280
<v Speaker 1>It's just kind of a mess. Yeah, and you know,

0:28:20.560 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>I drove an air a couple of years ago and

0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:28.920
<v Speaker 1>the fabrication on it was not good. And I do

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:32.720
<v Speaker 1>tend to think products are very insightful about how a

0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:36.719
<v Speaker 1>company is run, really, because if you, I mean, if

0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:39.680
<v Speaker 1>the product, which is what consumers see, is not in

0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:43.480
<v Speaker 1>a good place, how is everything behind the scenes where

0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:46.320
<v Speaker 1>consumers can't see it. It's like this kitchen or the

0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:47.920
<v Speaker 1>bathroom in a restaurant.

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 2>You know, especially, I mean the top of the line

0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 2>Lucid air costs I think two hundred and fifty grand.

0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:55.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I don't think it's you think the top of

0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:57.760
<v Speaker 1>the line one costs two hundred oh to make? Sorry,

0:28:57.760 --> 0:28:58.960
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say not the price.

0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:03.240
<v Speaker 2>The price, the price come from to fifty.

0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:07.760
<v Speaker 1>They're losing money on everyone, and they're actually.

0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Losing more than four hundred thousand dollars on each one.

0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Well if you if you average it out. I just

0:29:13.880 --> 0:29:18.200
<v Speaker 2>saw a story on the Bloomberg highlighting that number. Joel

0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Levington may have written it.

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Joel. Yeah, he's so smart. I love reading his stuff.

0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Joel for all the info. But yeah, it's just

0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:27.280
<v Speaker 1>it's so they lose a.

0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Ton and it's to me It's always been surprising because

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Alan Malally I think was on the board and was

0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:41.360
<v Speaker 2>part of the whole uh move into the spac Churchill

0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:46.480
<v Speaker 2>four or whatever. And he is a hero, right, Alan

0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:51.120
<v Speaker 2>Molally turned around Ford. I mean he was a winner

0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:53.800
<v Speaker 2>at Boeing, then a winner at Ford. I mean, he's

0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:56.320
<v Speaker 2>I think he was on the board of Google. He's

0:29:56.520 --> 0:30:01.760
<v Speaker 2>like an automotive or manufacturing and selling genius. And they

0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:03.959
<v Speaker 2>still yeah, I can't believe they whiffed on that. Now

0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I have Dodgen Chrysler. Oh boy, boy, do tell I'm

0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 2>just I could have put also just muscle cars in general,

0:30:13.520 --> 0:30:17.040
<v Speaker 2>because there's no more pretty much no more American muscle car. Really,

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:21.320
<v Speaker 2>I could have put big inch naturally aspirated V eights,

0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, because there's no more. This is the last

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:28.760
<v Speaker 2>year for the Challenger Charger, which had the six point

0:30:28.800 --> 0:30:32.720
<v Speaker 2>four leader Hemi or the Supercharge six point two. Those

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 2>are basically gone. You can still get the Supercharge six

0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:39.480
<v Speaker 2>point two and a TRX, but I think, oh and

0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:41.280
<v Speaker 2>you can still get the six point four liter Hemi

0:30:41.360 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 2>and a Jeep Grand Wagoneer. But those are different, you know.

0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Ram and Jeep are a different story. They're winners, huge winners,

0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:54.400
<v Speaker 2>in fact, dodging Chrysler after this year. The only models

0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:59.360
<v Speaker 2>that they make are the Chrysler Pacifica you know, Dak

0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:00.360
<v Speaker 2>Shepherd's van.

0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, and they still make that.

0:31:04.080 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah wow, oh no, and no, and Dodge makes the Hornet, oh,

0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:13.080
<v Speaker 2>which is pretty cool. But you know, it's not the

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:18.200
<v Speaker 2>same as no, a Challenger Hellcat or a Jeep Cherokee

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:20.600
<v Speaker 2>track Hawk. I mean those things are right. Yeah, so

0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:23.640
<v Speaker 2>these guys, if they don't turn it around, and they

0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:26.479
<v Speaker 2>have an amazing motor. By the way, the Hurricane five

0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:30.560
<v Speaker 2>to ten they're new straight six is awesome. Like I

0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 2>drove it in the in the Grand Wagon ear and

0:31:34.040 --> 0:31:35.720
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was a V eight for like three

0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 2>days before I looked at the.

0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:41.400
<v Speaker 1>Let me, let's do you think any anybody under the

0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:43.240
<v Speaker 1>age of thirty cares?

0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Probably not? And why not? Probably not? Well, the kids

0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:50.360
<v Speaker 2>clearly don't like muscle cars. That's why the Camaro. This

0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 2>is I think the last year for the Camaro, you know,

0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>or next year. And anyway, the muscle the Camaro and

0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:59.360
<v Speaker 2>the Mustang were becoming sports cars and the Mustang definitely

0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:02.360
<v Speaker 2>is a sports car are now, so there's no more

0:32:02.600 --> 0:32:08.360
<v Speaker 2>like cheap, big displacement, you know, rear wheel drive, front

0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:11.080
<v Speaker 2>engine cars. Like I said, they only get thirteen miles

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:12.840
<v Speaker 2>a gallon, you know if you drive them right. So

0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:16.120
<v Speaker 2>that's probably one of the big reasons. What else you got?

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so my last one for today, the last loser

0:32:20.440 --> 0:32:23.480
<v Speaker 1>is Lotus And this is sort of with a caveat

0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:25.640
<v Speaker 1>that this could also be a one to watch for

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:30.360
<v Speaker 1>next year because I do think that they have some

0:32:30.640 --> 0:32:34.240
<v Speaker 1>good product. You know, I drove the Emira that was

0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.720
<v Speaker 1>a fun sports cards kind of like a Cayman, and

0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:41.640
<v Speaker 1>then the Electree there Suv. I haven't driven that yet,

0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:44.720
<v Speaker 1>but I've seen that I've seen some positive reviews. So

0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 1>this is kind of like, maybe they have good products,

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:51.280
<v Speaker 1>but they only have like one and a half things

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:54.240
<v Speaker 1>that they're selling. Last year they literally sold one hundred

0:32:54.240 --> 0:32:57.520
<v Speaker 1>and eighty cars in the United States period. And yet

0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:00.960
<v Speaker 1>they're opening, you know, all of these new detail sites.

0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:02.320
<v Speaker 1>They just open one in Mayfair.

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:06.120
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say, where's the dealership network? But they do. Actually, yeah,

0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:06.440
<v Speaker 2>they've did.

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>They opened one in China, and they're they're just they're

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 1>dropping money. They had they laid off like two hundred

0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:17.120
<v Speaker 1>people this year. So it's definitely not looking good. But

0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:18.960
<v Speaker 1>they keep saying they've got a lot of things in

0:33:19.040 --> 0:33:22.560
<v Speaker 1>the pipeline. So this is my loser slash. Well, just

0:33:23.080 --> 0:33:26.320
<v Speaker 1>keep your eye on it, because who knows they do. Yeah,

0:33:26.320 --> 0:33:28.440
<v Speaker 1>they're they're owned by Chili. I was just gonna say,

0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:29.680
<v Speaker 1>so they've got some money.

0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:34.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm not saying that's a knock on the

0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:39.440
<v Speaker 2>quality these days at all, but it is, like evs,

0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 2>it'll be unpopular in America. Yeah. One thing they could

0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:45.440
<v Speaker 2>do is come back to F one. That would be sweet.

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:48.520
<v Speaker 2>That would be really cool, but unlikely.

0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:51.160
<v Speaker 1>But they need to make they need to make some

0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:55.320
<v Speaker 1>more cars anyway. Yeah, that's I mean, old cool, old brand.

0:33:55.360 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 1>It's a shame they can't get it together.

0:33:56.840 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but you're right, letus is a loser. All right.

0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:03.120
<v Speaker 2>That's all we have time for this week. But we

0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:05.920
<v Speaker 2>are going to record another one next week, right, Yes,

0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:08.759
<v Speaker 2>we are all right. I am looking forward to that,

0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Hannah waits. Until then, I'll be following you, uh and

0:34:12.280 --> 0:34:14.280
<v Speaker 2>likewise on Instagram? What is your Hannah Elliott?

0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:15.839
<v Speaker 1>It's Hannah Elliott XO.

0:34:16.320 --> 0:34:19.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm Matt Miller nineteen seventy three, and what have you

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:19.920
<v Speaker 2>got coming up.

0:34:20.200 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 1>So the nine to eleven st review finally came out today,

0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:25.040
<v Speaker 1>so you can read that online at Bloomberg dot com.

0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:27.040
<v Speaker 1>And then next week I'm going to have a recap

0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:29.400
<v Speaker 1>of the best cars that I drove in all of

0:34:29.480 --> 0:34:32.320
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three, so we can talk about those and

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 1>maybe some predictions for twenty twenty four.

0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:37.759
<v Speaker 2>That's excellent. I'm Matt Miller, I'm Hannah Elliott, and this

0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:38.719
<v Speaker 2>is Bloomberg