1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: one two. Hi, that walmost un intern and taken? What 3 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: do you mean taken by stranger prior? I cannot count 4 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: the thousands of times I have taken my children their 5 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: ten now, but their whole lives, going through Walmart and 6 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: Target and Costco Home Depot, Los you name it, um 7 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: how many times I remember the time that John David 8 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: got away from me while I was looking for sun 9 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: tannelotion for them on the bottom shelf. I think back 10 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: in all those times when I would be two aisles 11 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: over and come looking for them, and then I see 12 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: the video of a beautiful little girl, Cherish Perry Winkle 13 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: in the same position my children have been in countless times, 14 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: except she did not live. She did not live. I'm 15 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being 16 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: with us, with me right now is a very special guest, 17 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: Cherishes mother Rain Perry Winkle, Rain, thank you for being 18 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: with us. Thank you for having me. I want to 19 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: start with the phone call that caught the attention of 20 00:01:52,040 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: the entire nation. Where did you last hear it? I 21 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: met him in today Dollar General. He saw that I 22 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: was struggling to buy them some clothes. Keep her elos 23 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: here to buy us some clothes. And the only reason 24 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: I went with him because she said his wife was 25 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: gonna be here, because I told him I don't take 26 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: rides with strangers. Okay, I'm no remember what clothes she's 27 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: wearing because I'm panicking right now. I'm trying not the fantic, okay, 28 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: And she was laughing. What this man is? He went? 29 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: He said he was going to McDonald's and he he 30 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: hasn't been there because the store is closed right now. Okay, 31 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: is he a white man or a black man? A 32 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: white man's he's got white short hair, and he's got 33 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 1: dark eyebrows. Okay, dogs dogs short hair. No, he's got 34 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: white hair, his dark eyebrows. I had a strange feeling 35 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: about him when I first met him, and he took 36 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: her to the He took her to the to the 37 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,839 Speaker 1: dressing room twice, and I was hoping that she would 38 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: be okay, and I was looking at the shoes, and 39 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: I didn't want him to think that I was overly 40 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: protective freaking out. But now they're not here, and I 41 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: find it very odd because he knew that, okay, man, 42 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: what could a vehicle. Does he drive that's a white 43 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: fan that Do you remember any stickers or anything on 44 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: the side of the van, anything that you can remember 45 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: at all? Do they have tennant windows or anything? I 46 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: know he's got canton in the van. And then take 47 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: a good look and he said what I Then take 48 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: a good look at the beds. Okay, do you remember what? 49 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: Did you see any tag on it or anything? Don't 50 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: I want to tag? No, I didn't look at that. 51 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: They're like a fool. Okay, don't you remember what he 52 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: had on? Oh? I don't remember anything because I'm panicking 53 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: right now with me everyone, for those of you just 54 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: joining us here on Syria, Sex two is cherishes mother. 55 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: I have wanted so badly to speak to her for 56 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: so long, you know, Rain, I want to start at 57 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: the very beginning. You were at a place I've shot 58 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: so many times. Uh, family Dollar in our neighborhood. We 59 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: have a dollar tree back home and making where I'm from. Uh, 60 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: there there's a family Dollar and I am there all 61 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: the time. And while you were there, you meet a 62 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: man who you know, it's broad daylight, you don't think 63 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: anything of it, and he seems so friendly. What was 64 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: it about him that made you trust him? First of all, Nancy, 65 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to say this in the courtroom during 66 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: my testimony that I had seen him before. I had 67 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: seen him earlier that week in his van, really, but 68 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: I didn't piece it all together until after all these 69 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: tragic events unfolded. It's just like a jigsaw puzzle. You 70 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: have to piece it all together, and you can't always 71 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: piece it together in the same day. Sometimes it takes time. 72 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: But looking back, I saw his van rain that is 73 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: incredible to me, and not in the sense of unbelievable. 74 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: But I spoke to other women, another woman and her child, 75 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: and they had seen his white van before, and then 76 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: it approached them. I believe it was at a McDonald's 77 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: and he pretended to be a state child worker. And 78 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: that's what happened. And now I'm hearing for the very 79 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: first time you had seen him before. When what happened. 80 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: It was earlier that week. It was probably either Monday 81 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: or Tuesday of that week, because Cherish was taken on Friday, 82 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: June one, and it was just a regular day. I 83 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: wasn't thinking anything different, and I was just standing in 84 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: my living room looking at the television, and then all 85 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: of a sudden, Now at the corner of my eye, 86 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: I could see a white van moving so slowly down 87 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: my street. And it caught my attention because of the 88 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: way it moved like a snail's pace. And I had 89 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: never seen that before, because first of all, there was 90 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: nothing on the road. There was no other vehicles, there 91 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: were no children walking. So I ran out there, leaned 92 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: over the rail and I said, who the hell is that? 93 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: And the van was moving so slow, And when it 94 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: got to the corner, it made a left turn and 95 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: it almost stopped. It moved that slow. And it was 96 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: a couple of days after Cherish was taken. One of 97 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: our friends came over and she lives around the corner, 98 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: and she said, Rain, you know that van went Dinner Street. 99 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: And then I remembered that morning. Oh my stars, Cheryl, 100 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: you know what that says to me, Cheryl McCullum, director 101 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Institute. That says to me that, um, 102 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: I find that to be up Simpottico with the facts 103 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: as we know them in other cases. So he that 104 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: means to me, Cheryl, he did not just meet them 105 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: that day in Family Dollar. He had been watching them 106 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: and likely followed them to Family Dollar. And the reason 107 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: they probably didn't want to talk about it at trials 108 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: because she didn't see his face and can't prove that 109 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,679 Speaker 1: was him. And if you absolutely don't know a fact, 110 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: don't bring it into trial because you can get attacked 111 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: on it later. You know, like he could have jumped 112 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: up and said, oh I had my van in the 113 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: shop that day and and ruined, which of course would 114 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: be a lie. But what does that say to you, Cheryl, 115 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: what you're hearing right now, she would be installed. He 116 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: already made his mind up. He's a predator. Rain. It 117 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: is not your fault. It is not your fault. It 118 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: is not your fault. Thank you. A lot of people 119 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: bring me this man sch his sight, own, cherish and 120 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: nothing but going to stop him. Well, you know what, 121 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, sher all, because Rain has 122 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: gotten a lot of heat, a lot of hate for 123 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: what happened later. But I want her she couldn't do 124 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: it from the stand, to have a chance now to 125 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: speak to everyone across the country that is listening on 126 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: Serious Sex two and that may later download your words. 127 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: When you met him at Family Dollar, how did he appear, 128 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: how did he approach me? Yea, it was. It was 129 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: very strange. He had nothing in his hands. He wasn't 130 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: buying anything. He didn't have a basket or a shopping cart. 131 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: I just had a strange feeling that someone was next 132 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: to me and I was just looking at some baby 133 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: items clothes, and my children were in the toy section 134 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: of Family Dollar, and I went there a lot, so 135 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: the cashiers knew everything about my family. My children never 136 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: ran too far away from me, that were always within 137 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: listening distance, okay. And so I had a strange feeling 138 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: and I look up to my right and here's this 139 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: old man leaning into my face, and he freaked me out. 140 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: And all I remember is the black on his chest 141 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: from the T shirt. From the chest up. He had 142 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: the white hair and these eyes almost black, okay, and 143 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: freaked me out, and immediately I walked away from him. 144 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: But Nancy, I put it out of my mind because 145 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: I was there for cherished destiny and theya, I wasn't 146 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: there for myself. He sought us out and he probably 147 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: saw me when I was either walking and my children 148 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: to or from school, because he was seen in the 149 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: same area of Moncrief. I don't know. I think he 150 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: knew my pattern. He knew that I went to those stores. 151 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: So this guy comes up to you, and at first 152 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: you're taken about and because he was a little too close, 153 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: But then he strikes up a conversation and you're there 154 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: buying clothes and things for your children. That's funny that 155 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: you like to look at the children stuff, because every 156 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: time I go into um Target or Dollar Tree, I 157 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: always stop at all the children's clothes because they're so cute. 158 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: The children mine can't wear those anymore, the toddler things, 159 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: but they're so cute. Always linger and look at them. 160 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about. So you're there, and 161 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: so at first you were put off by him because 162 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: he's a little too close. But then you're buying the 163 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: clothes and the items for your three girls and you're 164 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: short on money. What happens. I was short on money 165 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: because my ex boyfriend gave me a one hundred dollar bill, 166 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: but I was very limited with it, Nancy, because we 167 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: had to put Cherish on the plane the next morning 168 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: at six and so, because we didn't have a vehicle 169 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: at the time, we had to put so much money 170 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: aside and say that, you know, for a taxi, and 171 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: that's why I was only allowed to spend at least 172 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: fifty or maybe forty five and leave the rest of 173 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: the money and bring it home for the cab the 174 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: next day. Where was she going the next day? Right? 175 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: She was going to California to see Billy, who was 176 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: her birth father, and she went the summer previously in 177 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve. So ran what happened next? Well, 178 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: first of all, I was shopping around the store in 179 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: Family Dollar. I was looking for a pencil sharpener, and 180 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: if they would have had one, I would have gone 181 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: straight home. And so I said, come on, girls, let's 182 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: go across the street to Dollar Generals different to find 183 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: a Family Um a pencil sharpener. And so we went. 184 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: We went over there. I found a pencil sharpener, and 185 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: I was buying hair ties and calling books and all 186 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: that stuff. And I saw a little dress that I 187 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: wanted to get my four year old and I took 188 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: it up to the counter and this demon was looking 189 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 1: at me, and I had this bad feeling, and I 190 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: looked over my shoulder and he is there watching me 191 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 1: count out money. I ended up putting the dress back 192 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: that I thought he was going to rob me. I 193 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: still Nancy, I still had not pieced together this was 194 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: the same man that was driving the van down my 195 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: street earlier that week. I still had not pieced together 196 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: that he was in Family Dollar only maybe less than 197 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: an hour earlier. But I was. I was in the 198 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: now moment, and what I thought was, I thought he 199 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: was going to rob me. So I go outside and 200 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: I've got the stroller and I'm starting to walk and 201 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: he called out to me and he yelled out, you 202 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: look like you have your hands full. And that made 203 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: me upset because I really liked having my three little 204 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: children with me at all times. I took them everywhere. 205 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: And then he says, I got a couple of little ones, 206 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: and I looked at him a little closer. I kind 207 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: of tried to squint at him, thinking how old are you? 208 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: And then he said, if you really want that dress, 209 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: I'll get it for you. And I kind of thought 210 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: for a few seconds, and then he said it again, 211 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: if you really want that dress, I'll get it for you. 212 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: He said, I have a hundred and fifty dollar gift card. 213 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm waiting. I'm waiting on my wife. And uh. Then 214 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: I looked at Cherish and I said, Cherish, I think 215 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: this man is trying to bless us. I think this 216 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: man is trying to what bless us do a good thing. Yes, 217 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: I thought that he was a good Semitan. I still 218 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: hadn't figured it out that he was the same guy 219 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: that creeped me out across the street, because I saw 220 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: him very quick. But looking back now, about a month later, 221 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: I went to Family Dollar in the same cashier that 222 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: was there that night of this tragedy in June. She 223 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: said to me that man was following you around in 224 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: the store. And I said, why didn't you tell me? 225 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: She said, because I didn't know. See that, after all 226 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: this has happened, and I can piece a lot of 227 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: these little pieces together and put a lot of these 228 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: pieces together and makes more sense. He sought us out 229 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: that you couldn't possibly have known at the time. So 230 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: how do you guys get from you think he is 231 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: a good Samaritan? And how do you get from Family 232 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: Dollar over to the superstore? I hesitated. I hesitated for 233 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: probably I don't know how many minutes, but it seemed 234 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: like maybe more than twenty or twenty five minutes. I 235 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: was waiting for his wife to appear, and I didn't 236 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: want to get in that vantagetil she showed up, but 237 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: he got snappy with me. He said, you don't have 238 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: to do this, and uh. Then he kind of says, 239 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: do you want to see my driver's license? And I 240 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: told him no because I felt he was putting me 241 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: on a guilt trip, that he's such a good person 242 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: and why would I question Why would I question him? 243 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: And I was foolish, I admitted, But a lot of 244 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: parents have made a mistakes. What happened in his van 245 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: end route to the superstore? How did he behave? He 246 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: told me I was safe. He talked about how he 247 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: works for habit Jacks. That was right before I put 248 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: the stroller in the van. He told me he works 249 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: for habit Jacks. He volued, he volunteered that information. And 250 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: then upon hearing that, I thought he was safe, safer 251 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: than when I was feeling earlier. Was very paranoid, but 252 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: he had always had a way to calm me down. 253 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: And then I kept thinking, well, maybe he's okay. So 254 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: you get to the Walmart superstore, which is huge and 255 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: which has a they have all sorts of things in there. 256 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: They have a barbershop in there, they have um a 257 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: tire center, they have a McDonald's inside the supercenter. So 258 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: you guys get in there, and where did he say 259 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: his wife was. He never gave an explanation of where 260 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: she was, but he made me feel that he was 261 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: talking to her on the phone, Nancy. But it freaked 262 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: me out. I mean now it freaks me out, but 263 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: back then I didn't know. I thought maybe his phone 264 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: was on vibrate and he just picked it up out 265 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: of his pocket and started talking. He had a he 266 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: had a plan to make sure I didn't have a plan, 267 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: and it worked. And the and the crazy thing is 268 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: this goes on more than what we realize it. It does. 269 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: It really does rain. It really does. Like you say, 270 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: you had no idea he was following you around and 271 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: had likely been stalking you for well over a week. 272 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: So you get to the Walmart superstore and you're inside. 273 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: What happens when you're inside with him? He told us 274 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: to go in first. My children were getting fussy in 275 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: the back seat, and uh, he says, you go in 276 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: first and meet me in the little girl's section. That's 277 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: what he said. So I went to the shoes section, 278 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: and I was trying on all these shoes on my children, 279 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: and I was trying not to get too excited because 280 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: I thought, I hope he doesn't do chus and leave 281 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: me here with all this stuff and then I have 282 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: to put it all back and take a taxi home. 283 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: And really I didn't have enough money for a taxi 284 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: because I was supposed to save that money for the 285 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: next morning to go to the airport. So I was 286 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: in I was in a bind then, okay, and I 287 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: still kept wondering, when is his wife coming? So I 288 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: left the shoes section and went to the little girl's section, 289 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: and then he appears, and the first thing out of 290 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: my mouth was where's your wife? And he said, oh, 291 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: she's coming. I thought, oh way, because she he said 292 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: she's coming. I mean, well, how far does she have 293 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: to drive? So we looked around the closed section, and 294 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: it seems like he wanted Cherish to have whatever clothes 295 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: she wanted. And at that time I didn't know he 296 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: was glooming her. But now I know the signs. Back then, 297 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: people some people say I was really stupid. I should 298 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: have known. Well, maybe if they were in my shoes 299 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: that night, they might not have known either, because when 300 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: someone approaches you with seemingly good intentions and pretends that 301 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: they go to church and pretends they're a Christian. Why 302 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: would you not believe them? Christians are supposed to be 303 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: perfect and walking in Christ and being generous and all this, 304 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: which there was a facade. Well, I have to say, 305 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: as a Christian, Christians like myself and others are all, 306 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: you know, pretty much sinners. And the whole reason we 307 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: even try is because we we need help. I don't 308 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: believe I've ever known but one perfect Christian. Um, I 309 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: agree with you, Rain, I agree that when, for instance, 310 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: when I take the children to church, I assume that 311 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: everybody has good intentions. I don't think something bad is 312 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: going to happen to them. And you know, maybe that's wrong. 313 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: Well it is wrong, But I agree with you. He 314 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: portrayed himself that way. It seemed as if he was 315 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: trying to do a good thing for you. Guys. You 316 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: had no idea this and who had been this guy? 317 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: I've been stalking you for over a week. So you're 318 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: in the little girl's section. He's getting wanting to get 319 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: everything for Cherish. But what about the other girls? Oh, 320 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: I got them all close, and I was so excited. 321 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: I was getting them the same type of clothes. But 322 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: in different colors, and I was putting cherishes clothes on 323 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: one side of the cart and the vas clothes on 324 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: the other side of the cart, in Destiny's clothes on 325 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,239 Speaker 1: another side of the cart, and then I had all 326 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: the shoes in the middle. I recall that he kept 327 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: he pointed out stiletto heels, high heels for the girls. 328 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: He did. Cherish appeared to me on two different occasions 329 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: with it seemed like there were adult women shoes, and 330 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: at the time I didn't know that until later on 331 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: I saw the shoes on the shelf. A few days later, 332 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: I returned to that store, I looked for the shoes 333 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: and I found them in the women's section, and I 334 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: was highly, highly infuriated, and that he had the nerve 335 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: to send his cherish over to me. And she said, Mommy, 336 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: could I get these? And maybe he could have been 337 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: a man that didn't understand that their women's shoes, but 338 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,439 Speaker 1: now I looked back, he knew the hell what he 339 00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: was doing. He was grooming Cherished because Cherish knew full oh, 340 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: there'd be no way I'd let her have shoes like 341 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: that that he was saying to her right in front 342 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: of me. She could have whatever she wants, and now 343 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: I know I was a target number one because of 344 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: a single mother on foot with three little children. Number two. 345 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: He knew that I was struggling for money that day, 346 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: and he knew that there was no men around me. 347 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: Even if my ex boyfriend was with me. I believe 348 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: this demon would have left us alone. He was looking 349 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: for someone vulnerable and someone with more than one child. 350 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: Because when I saw those, uh those videos before I 351 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: went to court, I was allowed to view them, and 352 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: I realized now he was waiting for us the way 353 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: he was walking around the store, flipping through a magazine, 354 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: and I knew he wasn't going to buy it just 355 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: by his demeanor. That's he At the time, I didn't 356 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: see that. I was just focused on cherished destiny in 357 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: the van. I mean ask you this, after you have 358 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: been shopping for a period of time, no wife has appeared, yet, 359 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: the children are getting hungry. How did you come to 360 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: the decision to let Cherish go with him to McDonald's, 361 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: which I want to point out is not down the street, 362 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: it's not on the other side of the town. It's 363 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: there in the superstore. Is Nancy? May I say something 364 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: really quick? There's a big misconception about the dressing room. 365 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: A lot of people that are hating on me saying 366 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: you let him go to the dressing room with her. 367 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: First of all, the dressing room was a clear shop 368 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: from the children's section, And if you go to any 369 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: Walmart you'll see what I'm talking about. You can see 370 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: a clear shot of just straight there. There's no other 371 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: way to get there, you know. And there was one 372 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: time that I looked up and they were returning from 373 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: the dressing room and he said, here, you take her 374 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,959 Speaker 1: next time. And the shirts didn't fit her because they 375 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: were way too big. And later on at night, when 376 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 1: I was waiting for the police to arrive, I asked 377 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: one of the attendants from the dressing room and said, 378 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: did he take her in there? She said no, So 379 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: that cleared my mind. He did not go into the 380 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: dressing room, and Cherished he walked her there, but he 381 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: did not go in there. How did he bring up 382 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: taking her to the McDonald's within the store. I was 383 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: looking at all the clothes in the car and then 384 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: I look up and Cherished comes over and stands by 385 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: my left, and she said, he's got a hundred and 386 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: fifty dollar gift card. And said, is that what he 387 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: told you? And he walks up and he's a few 388 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: feet away from me, and he he puts up his 389 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: right hand like a puppet. Is what Mark Khalil, the 390 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: prosecutor said, And that's exactly true. This is his gesture. 391 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: He puts up his right hand very strangely and says, 392 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to McDonald's. What do you want to eat? 393 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: And he never said we, he said I. And when 394 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: Cher ran over to me, she asked me, what do 395 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: you want to eat? And I said cheeseburgers, and then 396 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: she repeated cheeseburgers and that was the last thing she said. 397 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: I walked. I watched her walk away behind him, but 398 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: because of how close she was to me, she would 399 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: never have willingly ran away from me. And I knew 400 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: that McDonald's is inside Walmart, and I thought to myself, 401 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: he can't hurt her in here. There's too many cameras. 402 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: But see what I've learned through this, Nancy, cameras don't 403 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: stop crying. They recorded because there's so many brazen people 404 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: out there, they don't care that there's a security camera. 405 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: And so she followed him to McDonald's and by the 406 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: time I got to the front of the store, I 407 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: started the panic, and I looked through every aisle as 408 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: a cash register, and they were not there. When did 409 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: you get a feeling that something was wrong? Uh, Walmart 410 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: was closing at eleven o'clock, but we got a we 411 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: got the call on the INTERCOMT ten thirty, and so 412 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: I started to walk past the shoe section because Destiny 413 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: was whining for a bigger pair of shoes, and I 414 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: had two little children with me, and my mind, my 415 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: mind was focused on getting a pair of shoes for 416 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: Destiny that sit her. And some people might say that's 417 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: a selfish thing. But when I was with a man 418 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: that pretended he was Christian, pretended his wife was coming, 419 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: and he knew that I was struggling for clothes, I 420 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: never asked him for clothes. I never asked him for 421 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: money or anything. I thought he was trying to bless me, 422 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: And people do that every day they bless other people. 423 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: Let me ask you when you got suspicious, what made 424 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: you feel something was wrong. I couldn't see them at 425 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: the front of the store. There was hardly any people 426 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: walking around when I was. When I left shoe section 427 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: and I started to walk to the front of the store. 428 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: There was maybe one or two employees, but there were 429 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: no customers, and so so I started to um hasten 430 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: my pace a little bit faster, and I looked down 431 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: every every aisle where the cashiers are, and I couldn't 432 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: even see a cashier. And then I found a lady 433 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: behind the register and I and I started to put 434 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: a few clothes up on the on the belt, the 435 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: conveyor belt, and then I looked over to my right 436 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: and I I realized there's no one there, and I 437 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: said to her, hold on a minute, there's supposedly someone 438 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: coming to pay for this. I said, will you watch them? 439 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: And I ran over to McDonald's and I said to 440 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: the young man behind the counter, I said, did you 441 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: see a little girl with dark hair? And he said no. 442 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: He said, call my well one, my daughter has been taken, 443 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: and he just looked at me. And I started walking 444 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: around looking like I was in a day looking for 445 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: a phone because I didn't have one. And a lot 446 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: of people say, well, why didn't you call my mo 447 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: one right away? Why did you wait two hours? That 448 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: wasn't true at all. People were looking at me like 449 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: I was playing a game, like I wanted attention, and 450 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: that was so hard. I got chill bumps right now 451 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: because it takes me back. You mean it took them 452 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: two hours to call nine one one. No, I made 453 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: the phone call at eleven oh nine. That's the time 454 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 1: that the prosecutor mark, he told me when I made 455 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: the call, and the police arrived at eleven nineteen. But 456 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: even if I did get to make that phone call earlier, 457 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: I feel that the nine one one operator thought that 458 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: I was playing a game. Also, just the way she 459 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: spoke to me, and uh, I don't want to leave 460 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: anything else. I felt that she was taking too long. 461 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: I felt that she was asking too many questions. And 462 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: as I do that actually Wilcot, Wilcott is with me, 463 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: child wealth or a law expert, Ashley. That's true. I 464 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: have played so many nine one one calls in court 465 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: and they asked so many questions when you're about to 466 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: jump out of your skin. They do not only do 467 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: they anyone within the system does defects just the same 468 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 1: thing that they're involved in a case. And it's almost 469 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: infuriating when you listen to it, because you think talked faster, 470 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: get the information, don't ask all that information. All I 471 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: need is a belief officer here now? When you were 472 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: desperately trying to get somebody to call nine one one, 473 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: and just before that, when you looked a round rain 474 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: and you saw there was hardly anybody left in the 475 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: Walmart Superstar superstore? What went through your mind and body. 476 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: I knew he'd taken her outside, and I knew she 477 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: was with a very dangerous individual. There's nothing I could 478 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: do to stop it. And I was freaking out, but 479 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: trying to not scream too loud because as it was, 480 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: we're just staring at me like they're thinking, what is 481 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: wrong with you? And it was a female Walmart employee 482 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: that walked over with her cell phone and said, here, 483 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: use my phone, and I took the phone outside and 484 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: I called nine one. When the police got there ten 485 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: minutes after the phone call, did they at first think 486 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: this was some some ruse, some trick to do with 487 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: custody because you didn't want your daughter to go to California? 488 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: I did. Two detectives were there that night, Detective Alexander, 489 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: the detective Cohen. And Detective Alexander walked up to me. 490 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: I was sitting on one of those little benches and 491 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: he said, hi, Miss Perrywinkle, this is Detective Alexander. And 492 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: I looked up at him and um, he said, I've 493 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: got something to show you, and he took me over 494 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: to this laptop. We did not go to a police substation. 495 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: We were inside Walmart sitting down, okay and h they 496 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: stepped down with these two detectives and they brought up 497 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: the laptop and I had described the then and they 498 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: asked me what is this individual's name? And I told 499 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: I told them okay, and they they flashed a picture 500 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: of him and I identified him in a lineup, and 501 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: then he flashed another hold on. You know what that means. 502 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: You know clearly what that means. Alexis Torres chuck writer 503 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: online dot com investigative reporter. When they have his photo, 504 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: that means only one thing, alexis he is a criminal. 505 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: He was actually released from jail just twenty one days 506 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: before that. He had been on the sex offender Registry 507 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: lists since. And alexis for posing as a child welfare worker, 508 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: which I'm sure is going to infuriate as she Willcott. 509 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: And he got some little girl on the phone and 510 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: started actually asking her sexual questions, pretending to be a 511 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: child welfare worker, which was one of the things for 512 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: which he was convicted. Alexis and the thing is is 513 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: that the police knew immediately who this man was. When 514 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: when when Rain described him, they knew immediately he was 515 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: known to them in this community as somebody who was 516 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: a predator, and this is what horrific, But they knew 517 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: and this was such a failure of the system to 518 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: Rain Periwinkle. For those of you just joining us, Rain 519 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: is the mother three little girls, including cherished Periwinkle, who 520 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: was kidnapped from a Walmart superstore, assaulted and murdered. Rain 521 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: when you saw his face, what did you say? What 522 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: did you think when you saw the police pull his 523 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: face up on their laptop. I thought, she's very She's 524 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: with a very dangerous individual. That's my feeling. As soon 525 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: as I saw his face, I identified him and then 526 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: they flashed another picture. I said, is that his driver's license? 527 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: And the response was yes. And then my question was 528 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: is he a sex offender? Detective Alexander said yes, And 529 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: I jumped from my feet and put my head down 530 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: and screamed and I said, she's not coming, Oh, you know, fruitless, 531 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: he said, this feeling of dread. He's already got her outside. 532 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: She's not coming home. But I knew she wasn't far away. 533 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: She couldn't have been too far away within those few minutes. 534 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: I just wanted them to just hurry up and get 535 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: out there. The detective Colin looked at me, what did 536 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: they do? Looked at me. He said, you did it. 537 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: I know you did it, and you're going to it's 538 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: detective Owen. Yes he did. He looked at me. He said, 539 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: you did it. I know you did it, and you're 540 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: going to prison. I said, no, I didn't. He said, yes, 541 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: you did, and you're going to prison. And I said, 542 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: why do you think I did it? He said, because 543 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: you're not rolling around. I'm gathering, rolling around on the floor, screaming. 544 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: Why should I have to do that? When I'm telling 545 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: them this old man took my daughter out of the 546 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: store and he has intentions. I've felt it. I knew 547 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: it right then. Why else would he take her outside 548 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: that time and night? Why else would he take her outside? 549 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: And I know now why he waited so long. He 550 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: could have taken her out when we first got there. 551 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: There were too many people around. He was waiting for 552 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: the store's close, and I didn't know that then what 553 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: happened next? I wasn't allowed to leave all night, had 554 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: stayed there with Destiny into there. So you're sitting there 555 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: at the Walmart superstore overnight with the girls. When did 556 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: you learn police had found Cherish? What happened next morning? 557 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,479 Speaker 1: I had had a bad feeling. I couldn't sleep all night. 558 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: I we went home about I want to say, before 559 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: six am the next morning, and police officer drove us 560 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: home and I sat in front of the television because 561 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: I just couldn't stomach doing anything now, so I couldn't 562 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: even eat, and I sat there and watched and for 563 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: the Amber alert, all it had was a description. It 564 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: did not have a picture or anything. When did you 565 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: learn they had found Cherish? Homicide? UM officer came to 566 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: the door and immediately as soon as I knew he 567 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: was from homicide, he sat down in front of me 568 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: and he said, we found a little body. You know 569 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: where he was? And I started screaming and I ran 570 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 1: outside and some of the grass. Immediately I lost it. 571 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: There was no one around it, just the grass and 572 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: I just making contact with that grass, just pulling in it, 573 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: just screaming how could this be? But I felt it 574 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: to see because it was just too weird. After he 575 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: walked out of the store, I lost on my face 576 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: at Nancy and these wonderful people that are with you 577 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: right now on your staff. I was praying to God 578 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 1: all night. I was pacing in front of those cash 579 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,959 Speaker 1: registers and I had my hands up to my face saying, 580 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: please God, bring you who I'm not in the box, 581 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: Not in the box. M I wanted to bring you home, 582 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: but they took too long with me. Is Rain Perry 583 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: went old, this is cherishes mother and she has taken 584 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:08,879 Speaker 1: so much abuse and heat and ugly talk about her 585 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: daughter going with this truly a monster from hell. But 586 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: you know what he looks like any other guy you 587 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: might meet it Costco or Target, or a senior citizen 588 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: who offered to help her. And they were just going 589 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: within the store to the store McDonald's, just to get 590 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: a cheeseburger. And I gotta say, Cheryl McCullum, my longtime friend, 591 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute. You know, as a lawyer, 592 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 1: I'm trained to always say the right thing, at least 593 00:36:53,719 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: in court anyway, But when I hear talking, this is 594 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: the way it happens. This is the way it happened 595 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: to me when my fiance was murdered. This is the 596 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: way it happens. You think it's a normal day, you 597 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: think everything is all right and everything's fine, and then 598 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: all of a sudden your world changes and it's never 599 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,959 Speaker 1: the same again. You're right, Nancy. And here's the thing. 600 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: This man made his mind up of what he was 601 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: going to do. He took the back seat out of 602 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: his van to prepare. He stalked them for a week. 603 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: If it had not been Cherished Periwinkle, it would have 604 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: been another child. He would not have stopped. And we 605 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: can look for blame if we want to, but there's 606 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: nobody to blame in the case of Adam Walsh except 607 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: the person that killed him, or Amber Haggerman, except the 608 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: person that killed her, or lead by Fredi, except the 609 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: person that killed him and cherished Periwinkle. The only person 610 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: to blame is the person that killed her, Period Rain. 611 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: I just want to know. I wish I could hug you, Nancy. 612 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: I do too too, I just I wish I could 613 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: hug you, Dancy, just what you've been I don't know 614 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: what it's like to have that happen to me. Let 615 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: me tell you something rain. It was awful, But I 616 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: have to say that now I have children, what you 617 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: went through has got to be the worst thing on 618 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: earth is to see child harmed. It's I don't think 619 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: anything you could could ever compare to that. And I 620 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: just don't know how you made it through her funeral 621 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: and how you made it through that horrible trial. I 622 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: was screaming though during those times, Nancy, as you probably 623 00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: were screaming when that atrocious act was placed on your fiance. 624 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say it. I hate 625 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: saying the word murder. It's just, you know, I know 626 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,479 Speaker 1: what happened, but to come to terms with it, there's 627 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 1: times where I go numb and I don't feel anything. 628 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that to sound callous. It's how 629 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: it's how I deal with it. And for the first 630 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: year I screamed every day. And when I lived in 631 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: my house before I had to leave, I I lost 632 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,840 Speaker 1: everything over this. And when I was still in my 633 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: house for a month, I had no electricity and I 634 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: lost all my furniture. I lost everything. But I would 635 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 1: go to bed every night screaming and wake up every 636 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: morning screaming because the pain was just so bad. Back then, 637 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: and I would pound the walls and scream out, I 638 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: hate you mother ever, You're going to burn in hell 639 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And I could say his name 640 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: back then, but I rarely say his name now, and 641 00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: Rain that is so odd because I never speak the 642 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: name of the man that killed Keith. I never speak it. 643 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: I try not even think about it. I have never 644 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: gone back to the spot where Keith was murdered because 645 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: it's so painful, and now I have the twins to 646 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: live for, and when I think of it, it sucks 647 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: me into a depression and in such a horrible place 648 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: that if I go there, I feel like I might 649 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: not be able to come back. I want to understand 650 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: how you get through the day. Now, What did you 651 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,760 Speaker 1: tell your other two girls about Cherish? We were sitting, 652 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: we were sitting in Walmart that night, and I told 653 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: him an old man took Cherish out of the store 654 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: and they were too little. They didn't really understand too much. Back, dude, 655 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: have you felt that Cherish has tried to communicate with you? 656 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: You know, extrange that you ask that because a lot 657 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: of people that have been through this, whether it be 658 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: their fiancee, whether it be a parent, relative or a child. 659 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 1: They will they will say certain things that it could 660 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: be taken as well as she's just having a dream. No, 661 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: there were at least two different incidences where I felt her. 662 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: I touched a picture. I think it was a day 663 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: or two after she was taken, and there was a 664 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: picture of her on my wall and I just touched 665 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: her her face and I said to her cherished, told 666 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: me where that man took you. And within a few 667 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: seconds I just was trying to be quiet, and I 668 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: had a thought he took me to a house with 669 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: a dog and the house was white. Well after the 670 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:56,839 Speaker 1: stroller was found, I asked Mark Khalil a few days ago, 671 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: was that house white? And he said, well, I it 672 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: come onb Was it white or was it off white? 673 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: And he said yes. So I take that information is 674 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: that she was trying to tell me, and I can't 675 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: prove it. It's just what I felt at the time. 676 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,040 Speaker 1: And a lot of little children like dogs, even though 677 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: I don't like dogs around my children because they could 678 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: get bitten by them. But I don't believe that he 679 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: did this act in the vent. I think that he 680 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: had to have some elbow room. I think he had 681 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,320 Speaker 1: to have a lot of space, and he had took 682 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 1: time to think about it. Rain, what was the most 683 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: painful part for you as you endured the trial of 684 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: Donald Smith. Ah, that's a good question. The worst day 685 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,720 Speaker 1: was the Tuesday, the following day. First of all, after 686 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 1: my testimony, I went to an empty room and I 687 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,879 Speaker 1: watched Officer Wilkie. He had found chesh and I fell 688 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 1: on the floor screaming at his testimony. So that was 689 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: extremely difficult. But you're asking me what was the worst day. 690 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 1: It was on the Tuesday when Dr Rao was talking 691 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:17,720 Speaker 1: about Cherishes injuries and uh I was on the fourth screaming. 692 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: For that, I knew I couldn't sit in the courtroom 693 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: and her injuries were far worse than I thought. Rain, 694 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: take a listen as a verdict is handed down Donald 695 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,800 Speaker 1: James verdict count one. During the guilty of first Screamer 696 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: asked turing in the inditement, we rather finally killing was premeditated? 697 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: We read probably killing during the chusial the fella your 698 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: special battery to get to keep at and harshly invad 699 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: we dad him was on the Kyar stage at the 700 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,720 Speaker 1: time of the office. We find the defendant a special 701 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: bat during the three we can dreaders and a Kia 702 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: special Barrea from the first month and seller than me 703 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: as during the United y'all have gal fora the war 704 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: or February fourteen, Ashley Willcott final thoughts. Sure first all 705 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: all my thoughts and fairst ha Reign and her family, 706 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: the siblings, everyone. But we have got to be more 707 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:33,760 Speaker 1: diligent as people as a system to identify these perpetrators, 708 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: to believe parents when they say, hey, something's happened to 709 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: my child, to protect, to investigate, to arrest, to convict, 710 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,919 Speaker 1: and then not to release perpetrators and pedophiles who are 711 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 1: so prolific like this man was. And we have to 712 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,359 Speaker 1: do all of that with crazy urgency. The second thing 713 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 1: I would say is trust your gut and others need 714 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: to trust it to all of us know deep in 715 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,879 Speaker 1: our gut when something's happened, and if if others would 716 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: trust that as well, it goes a long way to 717 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: improving the system response that failed in this case. Cheryl McCollum. 718 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 1: When it comes to your children, don't trust anybody. Don't 719 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,320 Speaker 1: trust the family they want to go up in the 720 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,280 Speaker 1: night with because it's their best friends. Don't trust the preacher. 721 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: Don't trust the boy scout leader. I care who it is. 722 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: You make sure that you as you know the oversight 723 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 1: of your child all the time. I mean, that's just 724 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,239 Speaker 1: a scary reality. Because I'm gonna say again, this is 725 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: not Raine's fault. This person set their side only cherished 726 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: periwinkle period rain my last question, final thought. I miss everything. 727 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: She would sing a lot, and sometimes she would annoy me. 728 00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 1: Looking back now, I'm so sorry, because children can be annoying, Nancy, 729 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: little children can be annoying. Sometimes you'd have you'd have 730 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: your days where you'd say, get away from me, got 731 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: a bead. But looking back, I miss everything. I miss 732 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: it when they scribbled on the wall in their bedroom. 733 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,800 Speaker 1: I miss it when that we're running around the yard 734 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,240 Speaker 1: playing with all those cats we had. And I missed 735 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 1: taking them to school. I miss diaper changes, I miss breastfeeding. 736 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: I miss everything. And for some people to say I 737 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: wish my child would grow up and and I'm tired 738 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,920 Speaker 1: of this. Just please, I hate saying the word cherished. 739 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 1: I only use it for her name, But just please 740 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:51,360 Speaker 1: revel in if that's a good word. Just appreciate what 741 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: you have with your children now, because one day they 742 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,640 Speaker 1: may not be here. I want to thank Rain Perrywinkle 743 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: for your running US today. God bless you. Nancy Grace 744 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend M.