Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Variety Strictly Business podcast. I'm Chris Willman,
Speaker 1: Senior music writer in chief music critic Variety. I'm excited
Speaker 1: to talk with our guest today, c MT s Leslie Fran,
Speaker 1: who a general consensus I think we can say is
Speaker 1: one of the most important executives in the Nashville music industry.
Speaker 1: That's not just for what she accomplish this for CMT,
Speaker 1: which is a lot, for what she brings as an
Speaker 1: agiment of change in her extracurricular activities as well. We're
Speaker 1: co founding a couple of organizations that deal with gender
Speaker 1: and racial diversity and country music to being a force
Speaker 1: in the Recording Academy and being the just now newly
Speaker 1: reelected governor of the Academy's Nashville chapter board CMT, where
Speaker 1: she's been a top executive for eleven years now. She's
Speaker 1: the senior vice president of Music IT Talent. That means
Speaker 1: she's a producer or executive producer on the network's Temple
Speaker 1: Music specials and series like the c MT Awards, c MTRs,
Speaker 1: The Year Samet Crossroads, and the Weekend Top Point of
Speaker 1: Count that show, and she also oversees all musical integration
Speaker 1: within the brand means not just the original programming on
Speaker 1: the cable channel, but the CMT dot com website and
Speaker 1: music video airplay on digital platforms. If you've ever read
Speaker 1: an article on women in country music in the last
Speaker 1: ten years or so, I know you've seen Leslie's name,
Speaker 1: even if you read nothing else about Nashville when last
Speaker 1: year at this time Billboard named her executive a beer
Speaker 1: unless I was quoted as saying she wants to make
Speaker 1: country music a quote big, beautiful tent for all underrepresented voices. Unquote.
Speaker 1: That's a tall order. As you may know if you
Speaker 1: read about controversies this have risen over lack of diversity
Speaker 1: and country. But Leslie has found that a couple of
Speaker 1: organizations that have been important in the space of raising
Speaker 1: awareness for how the industry can do better, including changed
Speaker 1: the Conversation which deals with women in country and Nashville
Speaker 1: music quality, just focused on what needs to be done
Speaker 1: to increase the representation of people of color and country. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't want to make it sound like Leslie works
Speaker 1: on these issues only after hour, because she brings a
Speaker 1: lot of that focus to the world of CMT. Of course,
Speaker 1: at CMT in she started up next Women of Country,
Speaker 1: an initiative design to give up and coming final artists
Speaker 1: of platform that they often don't get anywhere else, and
Speaker 1: then two years ago she spearheaded a CMT Patual Play
Speaker 1: initiative which guarantees that women will get at least representation
Speaker 1: and CMT S music programming. I'm Chris Willman, your host
Speaker 1: for this episode. We'll be right back after this break.
Speaker 1: This is Chris Willman a variety and I'm back with
Speaker 1: CMT S Leslie Fran. Thank you so much, Chris. I'm
Speaker 1: actually you can't see me, but I'm blushing from that
Speaker 1: incredible introduction. Thank you. Oh gosh, my pleasure. Always good
Speaker 1: to talk with you in dribs and drabs as I
Speaker 1: have in the past. I'm glad we get to go
Speaker 1: a little more in depth today. Prior to which is
Speaker 1: when you moved to Nashville and joined CMT. Of course,
Speaker 1: your entire career up to that point was spent in
Speaker 1: the alternative album oriented rock formats, and you were even nicknamed,
Speaker 1: as I've read it, the first Lady of modern rock.
Speaker 1: I don't know where that came from, but it's interesting.
Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know I had a former
Speaker 1: life in radio. That was my radio is my first love.
Speaker 1: Is kind of being a shy kid listening to the radio,
Speaker 1: you know, growing up, and that was my form of entertainment.
Speaker 1: But radio was my first love. I did a few
Speaker 1: years in Top forty and then album like you said,
Speaker 1: album oriented rock, and then alternative for many years in
Speaker 1: Atlanta and New York. Well then in um the station
Speaker 1: you were at New York with Mainfield suddenly changed formats,
Speaker 1: as happens every week in this business. And and you
Speaker 1: went into television unexpectedly, and I don't want to say
Speaker 1: you never looked back that uh, it's gone so well
Speaker 1: for you at CMT, and uh, Brian Phillips, who used
Speaker 1: work within radio, had become the chief of CMT, and
Speaker 1: he says, come to Nashville and new country music. And
Speaker 1: you're from Alabama, so maybe moving to the South again
Speaker 1: was not a big stretch, but country music might have
Speaker 1: been for you. So, um, were you like, see, I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's for me or yeah, sure, country
Speaker 1: music that seems natural, even though I've just been playing
Speaker 1: you know, Nirvana for the last twenty years. It's very
Speaker 1: interesting that my probably the last two years in New York.
Speaker 1: Maybe the last year in New York, a couple of
Speaker 1: label reps that were friends of mine took me to
Speaker 1: a couple of concerts, country concerts, and you know, pop
Speaker 1: country just was not in my sphere. I really. I
Speaker 1: knew more about the classics and you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of Americana artist I loved, like Lyle love it, but
Speaker 1: I didn't really know a lot about contemporary country. And
Speaker 1: people took me to shows like I saw Keith Urban
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, this is kind of a
Speaker 1: rock show. And I saw Brad Paisley and Miranda Lambert
Speaker 1: and it started opening up my my world. But I
Speaker 1: did not know in a lot about the format or
Speaker 1: the artist. So when I when Brian, you know, who
Speaker 1: was my mentor and we had worked together at ninety
Speaker 1: X for many years, offered me the job to take
Speaker 1: you know, take over the music at CMT, I said
Speaker 1: yes without even thinking about it. So I moved here.
Speaker 1: Absolutely loved Nashville, and you know, the Nashville community of people,
Speaker 1: as you know, Chris, they're so friendly and you know
Speaker 1: they welcome you with open arms. But I really put
Speaker 1: my head down that first year. You know, I went
Speaker 1: to a ton of concerts and studied the artist and
Speaker 1: you know, also studied the format, and to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, I needed to learn the job as well.
Speaker 1: So for the first year I really put my head down.
Speaker 1: I set out to meet a whole new set of
Speaker 1: people or in the music, and then going from radio
Speaker 1: to television, honestly learned the job. So I feel like
Speaker 1: it was such a learning experience because this format works
Speaker 1: so differently than pop and rock, you know, and now
Speaker 1: I'm you know, now a minute, I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what's the biggest difference for how it works? I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, like playlist in a radio are very slow moving,
Speaker 1: but in television maybe you don't have to deal with
Speaker 1: that so much. A lot of it was about touring.
Speaker 1: At that time, you know, ten eleven years ago, it
Speaker 1: was very hard to get on a tour unless you
Speaker 1: had a song on the radio. And guess who that
Speaker 1: excluded women? And then honestly, the way the chart works
Speaker 1: and and how the whole you know, the heart whole
Speaker 1: chart system works. But the one thing that that I
Speaker 1: did learn coming out of that experience was lack of
Speaker 1: support for female artists. But I will say that, you know,
Speaker 1: hopefully that is changing. Especially with you know, some of
Speaker 1: the initiatives that we started, but that was the biggest difference.
Speaker 1: I do think that there's a loyal fan base, more
Speaker 1: loyal than any other genre, which I learned. I also
Speaker 1: learned that fans go to concerts and they're there for
Speaker 1: the opening act. I remember going to see Eric Church
Speaker 1: and you know, there's a whole family sitting behind me,
Speaker 1: and I was like they were there from the very
Speaker 1: minute the first act was there. And I never experienced
Speaker 1: that in a lot of a of shows that I
Speaker 1: went to. Well, this may be a loaded question, but
Speaker 1: how much has changed you've You've it's been eight years
Speaker 1: since Next Women of Country started, Um, I know a
Speaker 1: lot of women who uh we're part of that program
Speaker 1: has broken out in a big way. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: Marion Morris was in the program at one point, Jelcie Ballerini,
Speaker 1: Carley Pierce, who's kind of finally getting her do with
Speaker 1: number one songs, Uh, Gabby Barrett was a Next Woman
Speaker 1: of a Country graduate. Um. And yet so there's all
Speaker 1: these real success stories and yet looking at the overall
Speaker 1: picture of women a Country, Uh, you know, we know
Speaker 1: Dr Jada E. Watson has run a lot of data
Speaker 1: on the radio charts, and it seems like it's as
Speaker 1: bad as it was then when you really go down
Speaker 1: to what percentage of the overall UM format women have
Speaker 1: in radio? And uh, and you know this program you
Speaker 1: started a few years ago, Equal Play One Tea where
Speaker 1: you devoted um at least pledged to devote at least
Speaker 1: of all airplanes, m c MT and its platforms to women. Um,
Speaker 1: it's not like a radio has just come along and go, oh,
Speaker 1: what a great idea. You know, they won't even pledge
Speaker 1: ten percent, you know, and it seems like it's it's
Speaker 1: down to five percent of times when we look at
Speaker 1: Dr Watson's data. So, uh, what's your feeling, what's changed
Speaker 1: and what happen't for women? Since this has been a
Speaker 1: controversy for so long, though, I think the positive changes
Speaker 1: that I've seen is that when we first started next
Speaker 1: Women of Country and really pledged to support and expose
Speaker 1: these female artists, we've seen more women get signed to
Speaker 1: record labels and more women get signed to publishing companies.
Speaker 1: And the other really the other aspect was women supporting
Speaker 1: women because remember a lot of female artists were taught
Speaker 1: there's only one slot, so We wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: that female artists were supporting each other on social media
Speaker 1: and talking about each other, because a win for one
Speaker 1: was a win for all. And I know that I've
Speaker 1: said that many times, but it's true. Unfortunately, we have
Speaker 1: seen years where the percentages have gone down, and that's
Speaker 1: when we looked at it and said, you know, we
Speaker 1: can't control what rest your radio does. We can't control
Speaker 1: with streaming services do. What we can control is what
Speaker 1: CMT does. And that's really what precipitated CEMT Equal Play
Speaker 1: because we looked at our hour by hours, you know,
Speaker 1: at CMT in the morning and then CMT Music, which
Speaker 1: is our twenty four hour video channel, and we started
Speaker 1: another twenty four hour video channel on Pluto TV, which
Speaker 1: is owned by Paramount before Viacom CBS. And what's happened
Speaker 1: is that we see that country music index is so
Speaker 1: high on especially Pluto TV. So fifty fifty parody of
Speaker 1: male female videos every single hour, ratings haven't gone down.
Speaker 1: And now with you know, a nod towards diversity and
Speaker 1: making sure that we have diverse voices in those hours,
Speaker 1: but really changing it to fifty five was a bold
Speaker 1: move and quite honestly, it's the ratings haven't gone down
Speaker 1: and we've been able to expose that many more women,
Speaker 1: whether they're signed or unsigned. You know, we do have
Speaker 1: slots for independent artists as well on all of our franchises.
Speaker 1: That's great. I want to ask you more about Plato
Speaker 1: TV in a minute, UM, before I do. UM. Besides
Speaker 1: the gender frent, there's the racial disparity fronts. Unfortunately, we
Speaker 1: have to deal with the multiple issues that come up
Speaker 1: in country and there actually been a lot of black
Speaker 1: artists doing really well on radio recently, UM and in
Speaker 1: the wider community of how people experience country and I
Speaker 1: think of Jimmy Allen and the Breeland who I know
Speaker 1: is a friend of yours. UM and uh. But it's
Speaker 1: almost this radio. I was saying, hey, we don't have
Speaker 1: a problem with people of color, after all, this format
Speaker 1: just just female people of color. And so we have
Speaker 1: the uh, you know, the Mickey guidance of the world,
Speaker 1: who see them like your stars if kind of you
Speaker 1: you're out there in the mainstream and not really part
Speaker 1: of country radio and uh and not and you're experiencing
Speaker 1: things through award shows and U mass media presence. UM.
Speaker 1: But the Airplane hasn't been there, but clearly Mickey Guyden
Speaker 1: is a favorite of cmt UM. But does it feel
Speaker 1: like kind of uh, black Women is really the last
Speaker 1: frontier in this format for some reason. You know, it's
Speaker 1: interesting me and in a lot of people in town
Speaker 1: will tell you this because we all remember when she
Speaker 1: sort of made her debut at CRS Country Radio seminar,
Speaker 1: you know, ten years ago when UMG does there huge
Speaker 1: showcase at the Rheman and she came out on that
Speaker 1: stage and got a standing ovation. Now remember the people
Speaker 1: in that audience are all radio people, and she still
Speaker 1: wasn't supported and that first single, you know, to me
Speaker 1: was was a smash. Now, I don't know what happened.
Speaker 1: I don't know you know, what the research said or
Speaker 1: didn't say, but I can tell you that my radio
Speaker 1: ears said song as a smash. So she's really been
Speaker 1: largely ignored at Trestal Radio. And then she goes back again,
Speaker 1: you know, last year and gets another standing ovation, you know,
Speaker 1: singing black like me. But to me, she has arguably
Speaker 1: one of the best voices, not just in country music
Speaker 1: but justin music. And the fact that she's been embraced
Speaker 1: by you know, the super Bowl, to the Rock and
Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame and she can't get played on
Speaker 1: trestal radio. That is a huge question mark in my
Speaker 1: mind for someone who's held her head up and you know,
Speaker 1: became the voice of everything over the last several years.
Speaker 1: She deserves to be supported. She's talented. Well, continuing on
Speaker 1: subject to women just for a minute, because it's a
Speaker 1: rich subject, it is. We could go on all day
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, I'm just standing, why do you think
Speaker 1: occasionally someone breaks through and others like Mickey don't and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like radio has not been that
Speaker 1: interested in Mickey Guitan and Casey Musgraves, who is basically,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the most recognizable stars in any
Speaker 1: format at this point. And on CMT these people are stars,
Speaker 1: and in the mass media there's stars um and then
Speaker 1: occasionally someone breaks through. It I've been inested like why
Speaker 1: Landy Wilson, who I like a lot, has broken through
Speaker 1: and had a number one record And it's sort of
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I think radio sometimes uses
Speaker 1: that to say, hey, we're not we're not prejudiced because
Speaker 1: you know, we gave this person a number one record
Speaker 1: and that gives us like a free ride for another
Speaker 1: eight months. Um, but I'm I'm wondering, you know, is
Speaker 1: there something they're looking for out of women that they're
Speaker 1: not getting or or is there like real bus and
Speaker 1: prejudice there? And again this isn't you know obviously, I
Speaker 1: know we're talking about terrestrial radio, but a lot of
Speaker 1: my friends are at radio program radio stations. A lot
Speaker 1: of them have their hands tied because they're overseeing, you know,
Speaker 1: multiple radio stations and can't make decisions in their own market.
Speaker 1: But the Casey Musgrave story is one of the most
Speaker 1: perplexing stories ever because if you are in radio, you
Speaker 1: should jumping on anything pop culture. The fact that she
Speaker 1: won all of those Grammys and was still not supported.
Speaker 1: And I can say the same thing about Chris Stapleton
Speaker 1: in a few minutes, but uh, for someone who had
Speaker 1: a classic country album and was not supported, there's no answer.
Speaker 1: There's absolutely no answer. So she went out on her
Speaker 1: own and she has a career without radio and will
Speaker 1: always have a career without radio. But the fact that
Speaker 1: Kasey Musgraves, who by the way, is in a league
Speaker 1: of her own and took the format globally and is
Speaker 1: not supported. I mean, this is how you're gonna get
Speaker 1: me all worked up. Um. I think for Laney, she's listen,
Speaker 1: Laney is straight down the middle country. And I think again,
Speaker 1: right now, the fans and and radio are seeing that
Speaker 1: there's a huge appetite for authenticity and for and for
Speaker 1: mainstream country. And I think timing wise, it's been great
Speaker 1: for Landy Wilson. She's so talented and you know, we're
Speaker 1: all happy that she's having this moment and I think
Speaker 1: she's gonna end up being our next superstar. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just seems like there's there's maybe a more strict litmus
Speaker 1: tests that women have to pass than men, all of them.
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, and again, and I love
Speaker 1: I have so many favorite male artists, But to me,
Speaker 1: the women are making the most interesting music right now.
Speaker 1: And for for radio, I think that radio wins when
Speaker 1: there's a great balance, and that's balance of sound and
Speaker 1: balance of gender. So where are the women? You know,
Speaker 1: I always say that we're in fear of erasing female voices.
Speaker 1: So if you hear eight male voices in a row
Speaker 1: and then you hear female, guess what, it's going to
Speaker 1: be a disruptor because you're training the listeners not to
Speaker 1: hear female voices, and that to me, is a detriment
Speaker 1: to the format, and it's really bothersome for the future
Speaker 1: of the format because women, to me, were the backbone
Speaker 1: of this format with Loretta and Dolly and and everyone else.
Speaker 1: So the future of the format to me is in
Speaker 1: jeopardy by racing you know, females and their point of
Speaker 1: view to the audience. And it's interesting because even some
Speaker 1: of the superstars like Miranda don't get a break at
Speaker 1: country radio either. Hm. There have been many Miranda songs
Speaker 1: that haven't gone to number one that should have gone
Speaker 1: to number one. Hint, hint than the latest one. I
Speaker 1: think you know, listen. There are alternate ways now for
Speaker 1: artists to be exposed, which is great. I think it's
Speaker 1: a great time to be an artist. I know, it's
Speaker 1: kind of the wild wild West, and you have, you know,
Speaker 1: more that you have to do because there's so many
Speaker 1: different platforms now. But I think that you could have
Speaker 1: legitimately have a career as an independent artist because you
Speaker 1: run that fear if you get signed of being put
Speaker 1: on the back burner or you're on a runway with
Speaker 1: you know, twenty other artists, and you're not able to
Speaker 1: freely release music on your own. That's what I love
Speaker 1: what some of these independent artists are doing, whether it's
Speaker 1: on TikTok or whatever. You know, you know, the the
Speaker 1: Ashley Cooks of the world who just got signed and
Speaker 1: Alexandra k I mean, they're doing it on their own.
Speaker 1: And I've seen some of these TikTok artists actually band
Speaker 1: together and do their own tours. So in a way,
Speaker 1: you know, they're saying, listen, we can do this independently.
Speaker 1: We have a whole fan base that's out there that's
Speaker 1: discovering us on social media. We're talking with Leslie Fram
Speaker 1: of CMT on Strictly Business. We'll be right back. We're
Speaker 1: back with Leslie Fram of CMT, who's leading the charge
Speaker 1: in Nashville for diversity with some outside initiatives for country
Speaker 1: music as well as the work she does at CMT.
Speaker 1: So move away from the subject of representation, uh for
Speaker 1: a little bit here, of course, I want to ask
Speaker 1: you about the world of CMT itself and its core
Speaker 1: music franchises, and most of all, are most prominently of
Speaker 1: all CMT awards, as people know, went on CBS for
Speaker 1: the first time this year. Um, there were musical chairs
Speaker 1: going on in the Country Award sphere. UM and the
Speaker 1: c m as were unaffected by that, but the other
Speaker 1: two big shows, the A c m S the c
Speaker 1: m T S did some switching around. And UM, you know,
Speaker 1: CBS stop negotiating to renew the A c M S,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of us probably thought, well,
Speaker 1: you know, CBS can do without a Country Music Awards show.
Speaker 1: That wouldn't be the strangest thing in the world. And
Speaker 1: then we hear that they're elevating the c MT Awards
Speaker 1: to premiere on CPS and then follow on CMT later
Speaker 1: and and also be on a million different channels and
Speaker 1: platforms like everything is nowadays. Um and uh, that seems
Speaker 1: like a no brainer in retrospect that do you remember
Speaker 1: the initial stirrings of hey, this is something we can
Speaker 1: do to elevate the show that corporately is already in house. Um,
Speaker 1: it's already a franchise for a sister or nice network
Speaker 1: or whatever we want to call it. Um. And did
Speaker 1: you have any sort of territorial feelings like we should
Speaker 1: we should get that on cm the uh or what
Speaker 1: was your feelings when you first started to get the
Speaker 1: rumblings of an idea that the awards with the on
Speaker 1: a major broadcast network. You know, we've really been lucky, Chris,
Speaker 1: that we've had big fans of the same T Music
Speaker 1: Awards in the company within the company, from Bob back
Speaker 1: Ish to George Cheeks to Bruce Gilmur to Chris McCarthy.
Speaker 1: They come to the show every year. So the fact
Speaker 1: that it was in the portfolio just made sense to
Speaker 1: take it to a broader audience on CBS. And so
Speaker 1: for us, obviously taking it to a bigger audience, we
Speaker 1: were really proud that we were able to do that.
Speaker 1: Plus you know, streaming on Paramount plus it just it
Speaker 1: made sense. And the fact that they were fans of
Speaker 1: the show, they're fans of country music. They loved what
Speaker 1: we did, and most importantly, they said, hey, just do
Speaker 1: the show that you do. You don't have to change
Speaker 1: anything because it's going on CBS. We just want you
Speaker 1: guys to do the show that you do, because you know,
Speaker 1: our show has a different point of view outside of
Speaker 1: the fact that it spanned the did our show is
Speaker 1: known for great collaborations with artists from out of the genre,
Speaker 1: unexpected moments, and you know, having that look of an
Speaker 1: outdoor stage, and so I think it all worked, and
Speaker 1: it worked beautifully on CBS. You know, we had to
Speaker 1: change the day because of the Grammys, but at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I thought the show was beautiful.
Speaker 1: We were really proud of it. And you know, for
Speaker 1: me to be able to continue to work with Margaret
Speaker 1: Como and John Hamilin, it's just it's an honor. I
Speaker 1: learned every day from them. But having that support from
Speaker 1: the company, and again, they were all here and they
Speaker 1: were sitting at the very beginning of the show to
Speaker 1: the very end of the show, they were just you know,
Speaker 1: they're in there. They're always an one. I think they
Speaker 1: also love the camaraderie between the artist because sometimes you
Speaker 1: might not see that at other award shows and other genres.
Speaker 1: But the fact that the artists love each other and
Speaker 1: they sit with each other and they do the red
Speaker 1: carpet and they're cheering each other on. We kind of
Speaker 1: have our own special world and country music. But again,
Speaker 1: we were very, very proud of what we were able
Speaker 1: to do on CBS and the fact that we're going
Speaker 1: to be back on CBS next year. Okay, so that's
Speaker 1: a commitment. To that it worked and we're gonna keep
Speaker 1: doing it. It's a huge commitment again and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: probably one of the proudest moments for all of us
Speaker 1: at CMT because it's our biggest show of the year,
Speaker 1: So to be able to have it on CBS and
Speaker 1: Paramount plus having that brand be displayed to a bigger audience,
Speaker 1: our brand mental world to all of us. Yeah. You know,
Speaker 1: when I when I was trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: the show did, it seems almost impossible now. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to engauge between the different channels
Speaker 1: and platforms it's on and actual multiple networks in different
Speaker 1: ways to stream um and you've got you know, this
Speaker 1: new free service that Paramount is on. So uh, when
Speaker 1: we talk about ratings now, whether it's for that show
Speaker 1: or anything else, is there even like a single measure
Speaker 1: that makes sense that you look to to figure out
Speaker 1: whether we're on the right track, you know, I listen,
Speaker 1: I think that the fact that we had over five
Speaker 1: million viewers, it was such a win for the company
Speaker 1: because you never know, you know, mostly award shows are
Speaker 1: down and viewing only because there's so much for people
Speaker 1: to consume nowadays. But the fact that we had you know,
Speaker 1: billions of impressions on social media, and you know we
Speaker 1: see that with the v m as all the time,
Speaker 1: that people are consuming in different ways, and now that
Speaker 1: we can take it to all these different platforms for
Speaker 1: our fans to consume it. Just that's the thing I
Speaker 1: love about being in this company because now with Paramount Plus,
Speaker 1: we're looking to align all of the the brands globally.
Speaker 1: You know, we have these Music Council calls where we're saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: what are we all doing this year and how can
Speaker 1: we all support So it could be CMT having a
Speaker 1: Crossroads that gets played on all of the MTV brands
Speaker 1: and you know all over Europe. You know, we did
Speaker 1: that it Kelsey Balleruni and Halsey. And now we're talking
Speaker 1: about doing that with more of our Crossroads and having
Speaker 1: Crossroads having a you know, having a real presence on
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus. We're working on twenty anniversary this year for
Speaker 1: Crossroads and looking to have more of our Crossroads on
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus. And now we've taken over the iconic v
Speaker 1: H one Storytellers for CMT Storytellers. We we taped our
Speaker 1: first one and aired it with Brooks and Dunne. We're
Speaker 1: about to do another one, which you know, I can
Speaker 1: tell you is with Darius Rucker that we're going to
Speaker 1: tape and in August. So the fact that we're aligning
Speaker 1: all of these brands, it's just really exciting. Okay, I
Speaker 1: was gonna ask about CMT crossroads because yes, you guys
Speaker 1: don't do a lot of them, but when you do,
Speaker 1: you really focus a lot of attention on them. So, um,
Speaker 1: the Black pumas he got into one was great. Um,
Speaker 1: do you have a feeling for how many of those
Speaker 1: you want to do and whether it um it's like
Speaker 1: having a special or you think of it as a
Speaker 1: series even though it's kind of intermittent, or what sort
Speaker 1: of we tape we actually air for a year on CMT.
Speaker 1: I think that we're looking to do some bonus crossroads
Speaker 1: that can air on Paramount. Plus we're working right now
Speaker 1: on our twentieth anniversary episode, which will be able to
Speaker 1: tell you about very soon. But there's so many artists
Speaker 1: that still want to do crossroads. Plus we have artists
Speaker 1: that have done multiple cross roads just because of the
Speaker 1: longevity of their career, and so a lot of the
Speaker 1: country artists have done multiple crossroads they love you know,
Speaker 1: they love doing it obviously because they have an affinity
Speaker 1: for artists outside of the genre, and we always the
Speaker 1: first thing a lot of our new artists say is
Speaker 1: I want to do Crossroads with It just comes up
Speaker 1: organically all the time and we always have people on
Speaker 1: Twitter making Crossroads recommendations, which I love. I'd love some
Speaker 1: help booking. Uh well, I want to ask about the
Speaker 1: different ways people experience CMT now. And CMT is primarily
Speaker 1: a linear cable brand, but the pay TV world is
Speaker 1: changing fast, as you know we see within your parent company,
Speaker 1: Paramount Global. Um So how much are you focused on
Speaker 1: c m T S linear TV business these days? And
Speaker 1: what have you learned by having CMT on Pluto TV,
Speaker 1: which I know a lot of TV exact love because
Speaker 1: they get to see how long people watch any given
Speaker 1: show on streaming and track that in real time and
Speaker 1: that's that's not something used to get from Nielsen ratings.
Speaker 1: You know, Pluto has been very interesting, as has been
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus because Christmas card these vision you know for
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus, what was to bring back all these iconic
Speaker 1: MTV shows And when you look at like Yo MTV
Speaker 1: wraps and Beavis and butt Head and the hundreds of episodes.
Speaker 1: There's such an affinity for a nostalgia and the fact
Speaker 1: that they are reimagining mtvs behind them music. To me,
Speaker 1: those are those brands, and you know, between you and I,
Speaker 1: you know that around the pandemic there was this real
Speaker 1: urgency and need for nostalgia, and the fact that these
Speaker 1: shows are coming back and some of them are coming
Speaker 1: back and being reimagined is just so important because that
Speaker 1: that MTV brand and those the CMT brand are so
Speaker 1: relevant to a generation and more generations to come. So
Speaker 1: the fact that we have Pluto TV that can air
Speaker 1: you know, old MTV episodes and CMT episodes and now
Speaker 1: with Paramount Plus, it's great because we can just really
Speaker 1: spread this wealth of content. And we always talk about
Speaker 1: the vault because if you look at MTV and c MT,
Speaker 1: the vault of what we have is overwhelming. You know.
Speaker 1: We feel like CMT especially what differentiates us with other
Speaker 1: country outlets is the fact that we are in the
Speaker 1: business of country music three hundred and sixty five days
Speaker 1: a year with this living, breathing hot twenty countdown every
Speaker 1: single week agend, which is three hours of like up
Speaker 1: to the minute, country content, interviews, videos, festivals. UM, it's
Speaker 1: it's something that we're very proud of what our digital
Speaker 1: team has done. They have created these unbelievable franchises. One
Speaker 1: is called c MT Stages that looks at the stages
Speaker 1: of someone's career. A beautiful docuse series called on the
Speaker 1: Road where we can actually go on the road with
Speaker 1: an artist and see the day to day, living, breathing
Speaker 1: life of being on the road on a real tour. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's just the tip of the iceberg of what
Speaker 1: the digital team is doing. Yeah. Well, a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are old fashioned, like some of us, were
Speaker 1: not always thinking about the digital sphere and all your
Speaker 1: different platforms and so, UM, I think, you know, it's
Speaker 1: easy to hear a lot of complaints. You probably hear
Speaker 1: them sometimes the same complaints that still probably still are
Speaker 1: made about MTV, like where's the m man? You know,
Speaker 1: it's right, it's all lifestyle programming or reality shows. You know,
Speaker 1: you devote a few hours in the middle of the
Speaker 1: night to music videos. Um, and uh, people aren't really
Speaker 1: necessarily thinking that you have all this other stuff kind
Speaker 1: of going on the side where the music has kind
Speaker 1: of moved so how do you feel about that just
Speaker 1: personally the fact that you know, if you have come
Speaker 1: to c MT music wise, of course you've got the
Speaker 1: Top twenty cat down every weekend and things like that,
Speaker 1: and the specials during the year, but if people really
Speaker 1: want a diet of country music, they're gonna need to
Speaker 1: drift to your other platforms. And do you think people
Speaker 1: are aware at this point? I think you know, probably
Speaker 1: a mainstream public doesn't understand that, you know, videos don't
Speaker 1: rate on television, but the amount of content that MTV
Speaker 1: produces on a daily, weekly basis for Music Plus internationally,
Speaker 1: and what we've been able to do because every month
Speaker 1: we are out filming country content. It whether it's Seemed T, Camp,
Speaker 1: Buyer Sessions, or Crossroads, any of the music franchises that
Speaker 1: we do are about to announce a new one every month.
Speaker 1: Music is present on the channel, but also music is
Speaker 1: present on all of our other platforms as well. Um
Speaker 1: And I did want to bring up the fact that
Speaker 1: the synergy that I was talking about a minute ago
Speaker 1: with Paramount Plus especially and CMT is that you have
Speaker 1: artists now that are making these great whether their documentaries
Speaker 1: or music series, like Miranda Lambert did this beautiful series
Speaker 1: from the Marfa Tapes and I don't know if you
Speaker 1: saw it, but it aired on Paramount Plus and CMT
Speaker 1: and Tom Douglas is unbelievable documentary. I've never seen a
Speaker 1: documentary like this called Love Tom that premiered on Paramount
Speaker 1: Plus and will be airing on CMT. So you know,
Speaker 1: Ksey Musgraves, you know who did her her amazing album,
Speaker 1: uh movie on Paramount Plus. Those are the type of
Speaker 1: things that we can also partner with artists on which
Speaker 1: we're you know, that's a big part of our future
Speaker 1: is being able to partner with our artists around their content,
Speaker 1: telling their stories. Yeah, yea. So Paramount Plus, it sounds
Speaker 1: like has has really been a big boon as far
Speaker 1: as you're concerned in terms of being able to do
Speaker 1: different types of programming. Absolutely. Absolutely, And I think when
Speaker 1: you look at and Paramount as well, when you look
Speaker 1: at eighteen eighty three and Yellowstone and the fact that
Speaker 1: you know, the music of Yellowstone is very Americana country
Speaker 1: centric and supporting artists like Landy Wilson and now Lanny
Speaker 1: Wilson will have a part in Yellowstone. I mean, those
Speaker 1: are the things that will continue to happen where we
Speaker 1: can embrace artists outside of just their music. M eighty
Speaker 1: three with Tim and Faith reminding people that you know,
Speaker 1: Tim mcgrawl is also an amazing actor and guess what
Speaker 1: so as Faith Hill. It's so those are those are
Speaker 1: the things that we're really excited about telling those rich stories. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I just want to ask you for a minute about
Speaker 1: your case and how do you manage your lifestyle because
Speaker 1: I feel like you know every artist in the industry,
Speaker 1: you're not removed. You go too shows and not just
Speaker 1: not just you know Tim mc grand Faith Shales show either.
Speaker 1: That's you know, showcases for artists are no name. And
Speaker 1: I think that's a point in pride for you that
Speaker 1: that you have your your figure out the pulse of
Speaker 1: who might bubble up. Um, and you also have a
Speaker 1: life on a farm outside of Nashville, you and your
Speaker 1: husband and and I believe I read two donkeys and
Speaker 1: a draft horse. So uh, you have to pace yourself. Well,
Speaker 1: I have to give credit. We have an incredible music
Speaker 1: team at c MT, and you know, we're all music
Speaker 1: heads of all kinds of music, and they're turning me
Speaker 1: on to stuff all the time. Um. I remember when
Speaker 1: I first got here maybe two years in. Jen Danielson,
Speaker 1: who works at Warner Brothers now is on my team
Speaker 1: and she was like, you really need to know about
Speaker 1: this guy named Chris Stapleton. So I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's wonderful that we all ensue music, all kinds
Speaker 1: of music on a daily basis. Um, it's really sort
Speaker 1: of a hobby for me. So I don't look at
Speaker 1: it as work. Plus I'm not doing those crazy radio
Speaker 1: hours and getting up at four am to do a
Speaker 1: morning show like I used to. And it also helps it.
Speaker 1: In Nashville, the showcases are you know, at six or
Speaker 1: six thirty. So and I still, you know, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go see Brandy Carlisle next week. She's going
Speaker 1: to be at a send. I'm a huge Brandy fan. Um.
Speaker 1: I just I love music. It's it's it's it's really
Speaker 1: a hobby for me. Live music is a hobby for me.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've been a agent of change for greater
Speaker 1: representation of women, greater representation of people of color, and
Speaker 1: I would feel like these could be discouraging things at
Speaker 1: times when we see how slow change comes in Nashville
Speaker 1: and Country music and a lot of times in the
Speaker 1: music industry generally, but you know, there's not always a
Speaker 1: lot of recognition. Yes, we really need to in our ways,
Speaker 1: um and get woke or like that. And you seem
Speaker 1: like such an optimistic person, and I would feel like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, if if I were devoting myself to those causes,
Speaker 1: it would become difficult at times to be uh that
Speaker 1: sunny about it? And uh so do you have a
Speaker 1: lot of internal rage that we just never get to
Speaker 1: see as you see how slow change comes sometimes? Or
Speaker 1: are you as optimistic as as you see? Well, I
Speaker 1: know I do get discouraged, and you know, you and
Speaker 1: I are on Twitter a lot, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of negativity on Twitter, and I'm just one that doesn't
Speaker 1: want to get into that route of being negative. I
Speaker 1: don't really think it serves any purpose. I do think
Speaker 1: it's important, though, to speak up. And this company, you know,
Speaker 1: Paramount Plus formally Viacom CBS has allowed me, you know,
Speaker 1: to have a voice and for all of us as
Speaker 1: d MT two, you know, have equal access and and
Speaker 1: you know, starting from equal play now with equal access
Speaker 1: and our partnership with m Theory and Cameo Carlson. I
Speaker 1: mean it's about you know, putting our money, you know,
Speaker 1: where our mouth is and going, hey, we can make change.
Speaker 1: We started Equal Access with m Theory so that we
Speaker 1: could support diverse voices and be a pipeline for people
Speaker 1: that want to be in the industry. So I just
Speaker 1: try to focus on the things that I can help
Speaker 1: control and change. And then I have advisors at Nashville
Speaker 1: Music Equality with Shannon Sanders and Gina Miller and Courtney Katone,
Speaker 1: and it's they have been such great, you know, advisors,
Speaker 1: Like I can't tell you many times I've sat down
Speaker 1: with Shannon Sanders and and he's called me about things.
Speaker 1: So I again I try. Yes, I do get discouraged,
Speaker 1: but again I don't think that staying in a negative
Speaker 1: state is going to help anyone. So I just try
Speaker 1: to stay positive and move forward. And I think moving
Speaker 1: forward is really the best thing to do. Do you
Speaker 1: have a Nashville hero? Is there anyone that you look
Speaker 1: up to in the business who, yes, I do well
Speaker 1: outside of my former boss Brian Phillips, who is my
Speaker 1: longtime mentor, UM, I would say Cindy maybe at u MG.
Speaker 1: I think that she's such an artist advocate. She really
Speaker 1: cares about the artists, and you know, I think that
Speaker 1: I I see it on a daily basis, you know,
Speaker 1: and I can text her about something and she'll text
Speaker 1: me right back, and you know, we we both have
Speaker 1: an affinity and feel for a lot of these artists
Speaker 1: and what they go through. You know, it's it's really
Speaker 1: not easy. And I think a lot of labels are
Speaker 1: now understanding that they have to do something about, you know,
Speaker 1: the mental health of their artists as well. So some
Speaker 1: artists get signed and they're not prepared for about what
Speaker 1: what's about to happen to them. And I think that
Speaker 1: really means a lot to to her, and you know,
Speaker 1: to all of us really support organizations like Porters Call
Speaker 1: that are there for these artists and what they have
Speaker 1: to go through, you know, on a daily basis. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I love Cyndi um and I'm sure whether it's her
Speaker 1: you that the artists out there, it may not always
Speaker 1: be the norm that they run into executives can really
Speaker 1: deal with them on a wonder one basis and talk
Speaker 1: personally and uh and see why they valued that when
Speaker 1: they when they find it now, I appreciate it, I
Speaker 1: you know, I UM I just don't want to have
Speaker 1: an email unanswered because I remember when I was a
Speaker 1: baby DJ and I would send my cassettes out to
Speaker 1: people and people got back to me, and I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: if I would never be in a position I would
Speaker 1: get back to people. And it means a lot to
Speaker 1: someone that you at least you know they were heard
Speaker 1: in other words, and you get you were able to
Speaker 1: get back to them, and and just sometimes a little
Speaker 1: encouragement goes a long way. Okay, an ocultingly changed from
Speaker 1: my hundred thousands unopened emails. Good for you for being
Speaker 1: able to get a handle on that. That's great. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. It's been
Speaker 1: a real cleoster to talk with you. And everyone listening
Speaker 1: please uh offer a silent round of applause for Cynth's
Speaker 1: Leslie Fan. Are You're amazing? Chris? Thank you. This has
Speaker 1: been an episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next week
Speaker 1: for another helping of conversation with media movers and shakers.
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