1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Bushkin. 2 00:00:18,596 --> 00:00:21,636 Speaker 2: In Glassboro, New Jersey, a little community half an hour 3 00:00:21,716 --> 00:00:24,916 Speaker 2: south of Philadelphia, there's a statue right by the road 4 00:00:24,916 --> 00:00:27,596 Speaker 2: as you drive into town. It's of a man named 5 00:00:27,596 --> 00:00:31,436 Speaker 2: Henry Rowan. He liked to be called Hank. Whenever Hank 6 00:00:31,516 --> 00:00:34,716 Speaker 2: Rohan came to Glassboro, he was mobbed like a rock star, 7 00:00:35,396 --> 00:00:38,116 Speaker 2: which probably embarrassed him because he wasn't given to those 8 00:00:38,196 --> 00:00:41,436 Speaker 2: kinds of displays. When Hank Rowan died in December of 9 00:00:41,476 --> 00:00:45,396 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, there was a huge memorial service. Then in 10 00:00:45,436 --> 00:00:48,796 Speaker 2: the evening, students from the local college gathered around his statue, 11 00:00:49,036 --> 00:00:53,436 Speaker 2: holding candles and sang for him as earnestly as only 12 00:00:53,516 --> 00:01:00,276 Speaker 2: college kids can. 13 00:01:01,796 --> 00:01:02,476 Speaker 3: Let me sell you. 14 00:01:17,276 --> 00:01:20,556 Speaker 2: My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, 15 00:01:20,996 --> 00:01:32,676 Speaker 2: my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is 16 00:01:32,756 --> 00:01:35,836 Speaker 2: my eulogy for Hank Rowan. I never met him, but 17 00:01:35,916 --> 00:01:39,356 Speaker 2: he's a hero of mine. I want to understand why 18 00:01:39,396 --> 00:01:44,276 Speaker 2: he didn't become everyone's hero. Why Hank Rowan's example didn't 19 00:01:44,316 --> 00:01:49,556 Speaker 2: spread beyond Glassborne, Jersey. 20 00:01:53,676 --> 00:01:56,316 Speaker 4: He was six foot one or so, not not a 21 00:01:56,356 --> 00:01:59,116 Speaker 4: huge football player size, and you know, one hundred and 22 00:01:59,196 --> 00:02:03,636 Speaker 4: eighty pounds no thin, but not skinny, and had a 23 00:02:03,676 --> 00:02:05,836 Speaker 4: loud voice, strong presence. 24 00:02:05,996 --> 00:02:08,716 Speaker 2: And yeah he was what was his management style, like. 25 00:02:10,156 --> 00:02:11,276 Speaker 4: Benevolent dictator. 26 00:02:11,636 --> 00:02:15,756 Speaker 2: I think that's Rowan's daughter, Ginny Smith. She now runs 27 00:02:15,756 --> 00:02:19,036 Speaker 2: the company her father started in nineteen fifty three. It's 28 00:02:19,036 --> 00:02:22,596 Speaker 2: called Inducto Therm. It's right off the New Jersey Turnpike. 29 00:02:23,276 --> 00:02:25,596 Speaker 2: They make industrial furnaces for melting metal. 30 00:02:25,716 --> 00:02:28,956 Speaker 4: He started the company basically in our garage and then 31 00:02:29,076 --> 00:02:31,236 Speaker 4: he sold his first job to the Mint, which was 32 00:02:31,316 --> 00:02:33,156 Speaker 4: kind of fun, and then the second job to Ge 33 00:02:33,356 --> 00:02:36,156 Speaker 4: and then the furnaces just got bigger and bigger. Now 34 00:02:36,276 --> 00:02:40,036 Speaker 4: some of them are fifty ton They're just huge. And 35 00:02:40,796 --> 00:02:43,396 Speaker 4: kept branching out and acquired some companies and it kind 36 00:02:43,436 --> 00:02:46,236 Speaker 4: of it grew like topsy. But he also worked very, 37 00:02:46,356 --> 00:02:48,236 Speaker 4: very hard at it and hired good people. 38 00:02:48,796 --> 00:02:53,356 Speaker 2: Rowan built Inducto Therm into a multinational corporation thousands of 39 00:02:53,396 --> 00:02:56,916 Speaker 2: employees around the world, and he became a very wealthy man, 40 00:02:57,436 --> 00:02:58,716 Speaker 2: although you wouldn't have known it. 41 00:02:59,116 --> 00:03:01,956 Speaker 4: You know, he would run around and scuffed shoes and 42 00:03:01,996 --> 00:03:03,596 Speaker 4: tried to not worried about that. He didn't care how 43 00:03:03,596 --> 00:03:04,476 Speaker 4: he dressed her looked. 44 00:03:04,716 --> 00:03:09,076 Speaker 2: Roan was an engineer, raced sailboats, flew planes, bleeding hard work, 45 00:03:09,436 --> 00:03:10,156 Speaker 2: free enterprise. 46 00:03:10,636 --> 00:03:12,436 Speaker 4: But you couldn't get him to buy a fancy car. 47 00:03:12,476 --> 00:03:14,596 Speaker 4: He was a nash rambler guy in the early days, 48 00:03:14,996 --> 00:03:19,236 Speaker 4: and he pooh poohed Mercedes because Mercedes wasn't one of 49 00:03:19,236 --> 00:03:20,236 Speaker 4: our customers. 50 00:03:21,196 --> 00:03:23,676 Speaker 2: Did he drive sort of nearly. 51 00:03:23,476 --> 00:03:27,836 Speaker 4: Near He drove Ozama bills and buicks and finding the 52 00:03:27,876 --> 00:03:30,356 Speaker 4: company here in Sicity. Drive a Lincoln. He drove it 53 00:03:30,356 --> 00:03:31,556 Speaker 4: into the ground just about. 54 00:03:32,036 --> 00:03:32,196 Speaker 5: Oh. 55 00:03:32,196 --> 00:03:34,476 Speaker 4: It had a Cadillac once, but he towed his boats 56 00:03:34,476 --> 00:03:36,476 Speaker 4: with that too, because it had a bigger engine. You know, 57 00:03:37,756 --> 00:03:40,196 Speaker 4: none of us drive around and wave at people's stuff. 58 00:03:40,276 --> 00:03:40,516 Speaker 1: Yeah. 59 00:03:40,716 --> 00:03:41,676 Speaker 3: Yeah. 60 00:03:41,916 --> 00:03:44,876 Speaker 2: Almost thirty years ago, Hank Rowan became friends with a 61 00:03:44,876 --> 00:03:47,756 Speaker 2: man named Phil to Minia. To Minya was head of 62 00:03:47,796 --> 00:03:51,716 Speaker 2: development for the local college, Glassboro State, just down the road, 63 00:03:52,156 --> 00:03:54,836 Speaker 2: a little university started back in the nineteen twenties on 64 00:03:54,876 --> 00:03:58,316 Speaker 2: twenty five acres too. Minya would drop by and see 65 00:03:58,396 --> 00:04:01,196 Speaker 2: Rowan on his way up to Trenton. Everyone involved with 66 00:04:01,236 --> 00:04:03,956 Speaker 2: Glassboro and Rowan has their own version of this story, 67 00:04:04,556 --> 00:04:07,076 Speaker 2: but here's how Rowan remembered it in an interview he 68 00:04:07,116 --> 00:04:09,996 Speaker 2: gave a few years before he died with Don Ferris, 69 00:04:10,036 --> 00:04:13,396 Speaker 2: who's the former president of Glasboro State. He asked Rowan 70 00:04:13,676 --> 00:04:15,796 Speaker 2: how he first got involved with the college. 71 00:04:16,196 --> 00:04:18,996 Speaker 1: Well, I think we blame it all on Phil Tomidia 72 00:04:19,716 --> 00:04:23,956 Speaker 1: because he came to see me and asked if I 73 00:04:24,036 --> 00:04:27,556 Speaker 1: might make a donation to the scholarship fund of fifteen 74 00:04:27,676 --> 00:04:31,196 Speaker 1: hundred dollars. Well that sounded easy, fifteen hundred dollars, so 75 00:04:31,836 --> 00:04:34,596 Speaker 1: we gave him fifteen hundred dollars. And you know what 76 00:04:34,836 --> 00:04:35,396 Speaker 1: he came. 77 00:04:35,236 --> 00:04:38,796 Speaker 2: Back to many I wanted Rowan to give money to 78 00:04:38,836 --> 00:04:41,916 Speaker 2: the business school, which was pretty dilapidated. 79 00:04:42,156 --> 00:04:44,596 Speaker 1: So he pushed that for a while and finally said, Phil, 80 00:04:44,876 --> 00:04:48,716 Speaker 1: I have zero interest in your school of business. What 81 00:04:48,876 --> 00:04:54,156 Speaker 1: this world needs is more engineering, how to make things 82 00:04:54,236 --> 00:04:57,636 Speaker 1: we have to produce? And Phil, what would you do 83 00:04:57,676 --> 00:05:01,276 Speaker 1: with one hundred million dollars? And he nearly fell off 84 00:05:01,276 --> 00:05:05,836 Speaker 1: the chair. But that's how we got to that level, 85 00:05:05,876 --> 00:05:07,796 Speaker 1: and that's what was the beginning. 86 00:05:08,396 --> 00:05:11,196 Speaker 5: So you're the one that suggested one hundred million dollar figure. 87 00:05:11,036 --> 00:05:13,036 Speaker 1: Not oh yeah, you were talking about ten. 88 00:05:13,316 --> 00:05:17,516 Speaker 2: I see, this is nineteen ninety two, A generation ago. 89 00:05:18,076 --> 00:05:21,236 Speaker 2: Almost nobody gave donations of one hundred million dollars. Back then, 90 00:05:21,796 --> 00:05:25,596 Speaker 2: this was unheard of money. Rowan's gift made headlines around 91 00:05:25,636 --> 00:05:28,116 Speaker 2: the country. He set a new standard. 92 00:05:28,316 --> 00:05:30,956 Speaker 6: Did you think it changed the world? The in right ability. 93 00:05:32,276 --> 00:05:35,396 Speaker 2: At Rowan's memorial service, phil Toominia gets up and says, 94 00:05:35,516 --> 00:05:38,716 Speaker 2: I think accurately that Roan is the person who triggered 95 00:05:38,836 --> 00:05:41,636 Speaker 2: what has become one of the greatest explosions in educational 96 00:05:41,636 --> 00:05:45,556 Speaker 2: philanthropy since the days of Andrew Carnegie and the Rockefellers. 97 00:05:45,716 --> 00:05:49,596 Speaker 6: From July of nineteen ninety two until the end of 98 00:05:49,636 --> 00:05:54,596 Speaker 6: that decade, twenty gifts twenty gifts of one hundred million 99 00:05:54,636 --> 00:05:57,836 Speaker 6: dollars of war we were given out in this country. 100 00:05:58,356 --> 00:06:01,596 Speaker 2: According to the Chronicle of Philanthropy. As of right now 101 00:06:01,756 --> 00:06:05,076 Speaker 2: spring of twenty sixteen, we're up to eighty seven gifts 102 00:06:05,156 --> 00:06:07,436 Speaker 2: of one hundred million dollars or more to higher education. 103 00:06:08,396 --> 00:06:17,596 Speaker 2: So everyone followed Rowan's lead, except not really. Rowan gave 104 00:06:17,636 --> 00:06:20,996 Speaker 2: his money to Glasporo State College, a public university in 105 00:06:21,036 --> 00:06:23,676 Speaker 2: a sleepy little town in South Jersey that no one 106 00:06:23,716 --> 00:06:27,676 Speaker 2: had ever heard of. The college was close to broke 107 00:06:28,156 --> 00:06:30,796 Speaker 2: at the time. They had an endowment of seven hundred 108 00:06:30,836 --> 00:06:34,436 Speaker 2: and eighty seven thousand dollars. But the people who followed 109 00:06:34,436 --> 00:06:37,596 Speaker 2: Hank Rowan, who were inspired by the size of his donation. 110 00:06:38,956 --> 00:06:42,036 Speaker 2: Almost all of them gave money to wealthy, prestigious schools. 111 00:06:42,876 --> 00:06:44,836 Speaker 2: Let me just read to you the names of some 112 00:06:44,916 --> 00:06:48,476 Speaker 2: of the educational institutions that had received the largest donations 113 00:06:48,516 --> 00:06:53,876 Speaker 2: in American history. Ready, in twenty thirteen, the billionaire co 114 00:06:53,916 --> 00:06:57,236 Speaker 2: founder of Nike, Phil Knight, pledged half a billion to 115 00:06:57,276 --> 00:07:00,716 Speaker 2: the Oregon Health and Science University in Portland, Okay. Not 116 00:07:00,796 --> 00:07:05,356 Speaker 2: the most prestigious institution in America. But wait, then, come 117 00:07:05,756 --> 00:07:08,836 Speaker 2: three four hundred million dollar donations. The first is the 118 00:07:08,836 --> 00:07:12,116 Speaker 2: billionaire John Klugie's gift to Columbia University in two thousand 119 00:07:12,156 --> 00:07:15,836 Speaker 2: and seven. The second is the hedge fund manager John 120 00:07:15,876 --> 00:07:19,916 Speaker 2: Paulson's gift to Harvard University in twenty fifteen. The third 121 00:07:20,156 --> 00:07:23,036 Speaker 2: is Phil Knight's gift to Stanford University in twenty sixteen. 122 00:07:23,716 --> 00:07:26,556 Speaker 2: And after that, in order, here are the universities that 123 00:07:26,596 --> 00:07:33,076 Speaker 2: get the biggest donations. JOHNS. Hopkins Harvard again, University of Chicago, Princeton, Tuft's, 124 00:07:33,116 --> 00:07:38,556 Speaker 2: Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Yale, Penn, Claremont McKenna, Columbia again, Baylor, 125 00:07:38,876 --> 00:07:43,916 Speaker 2: USC Columbia a third time, Michigan University of California, Wisconsin. 126 00:07:45,916 --> 00:07:48,396 Speaker 2: I could go on if you want, through all eighty seven, 127 00:07:48,676 --> 00:07:52,236 Speaker 2: but basically we're talking about the same wealthy, elite schools 128 00:07:52,516 --> 00:07:57,116 Speaker 2: getting the biggest donations again and again. Hank Rowan did 129 00:07:57,156 --> 00:08:07,876 Speaker 2: something unprecedented, and nobody followed him. This episode is the 130 00:08:07,916 --> 00:08:11,956 Speaker 2: third in my three part revisionist history miniseries re examining 131 00:08:11,996 --> 00:08:15,636 Speaker 2: the promise of higher education. The first installment was about 132 00:08:15,676 --> 00:08:19,316 Speaker 2: why the educational system struggles to find talented, low income students. 133 00:08:20,036 --> 00:08:23,156 Speaker 2: The second episode was a comparison of Vassar and Boden 134 00:08:23,436 --> 00:08:26,036 Speaker 2: and why it's so difficult for some colleges to find 135 00:08:26,076 --> 00:08:28,996 Speaker 2: the money for financial aid. But today I want to 136 00:08:29,036 --> 00:08:32,756 Speaker 2: talk about educational philanthropy, which I think is an issue 137 00:08:32,756 --> 00:08:36,876 Speaker 2: that doesn't get talked about nearly enough. Higher education in 138 00:08:36,876 --> 00:08:40,596 Speaker 2: the United States runs on philanthropy. There are almost no 139 00:08:40,796 --> 00:08:43,236 Speaker 2: schools that can pay their bills just on the strength 140 00:08:43,276 --> 00:08:47,476 Speaker 2: of students tuition. Those days are over. Philanthropy is what 141 00:08:47,596 --> 00:08:51,556 Speaker 2: makes the wheels turned. But there's a problem. A lot 142 00:08:51,556 --> 00:08:54,716 Speaker 2: of that philanthropy doesn't make any sense. It's going to 143 00:08:54,756 --> 00:09:02,116 Speaker 2: the wrong places for the wrong reasons. Those of you 144 00:09:02,156 --> 00:09:04,396 Speaker 2: who follow me on Twitter will know that I'm obsessed 145 00:09:04,476 --> 00:09:07,836 Speaker 2: with this issue. After John Paulson gave his four hundred 146 00:09:07,836 --> 00:09:10,356 Speaker 2: million dollars to Harvard and to twenty fifteen, I had 147 00:09:10,356 --> 00:09:14,156 Speaker 2: a kind of Twitter meltdown, sending tweet after tweet, including 148 00:09:14,636 --> 00:09:16,836 Speaker 2: it came down to helping the poor or giving the 149 00:09:16,876 --> 00:09:20,116 Speaker 2: world's richest university fond of million dollars. It doesn't need 150 00:09:20,516 --> 00:09:24,876 Speaker 2: wise choice, John, and then if billionaires don't step up, 151 00:09:25,116 --> 00:09:27,556 Speaker 2: Harvard will soon be down to its last thirty billion. 152 00:09:28,396 --> 00:09:31,196 Speaker 2: Then when Phil Knight gave fondred million dollars to Stanford, 153 00:09:31,516 --> 00:09:33,756 Speaker 2: I got called up for comment by The New York Times. 154 00:09:34,276 --> 00:09:36,596 Speaker 2: I said that Stamford was part of a crazy arms 155 00:09:36,676 --> 00:09:39,556 Speaker 2: race and ought to cut its endowment in half and 156 00:09:39,596 --> 00:09:41,996 Speaker 2: give the balance to schools that actually need the money. 157 00:09:42,636 --> 00:09:44,996 Speaker 2: The next day, I got an email from the President 158 00:09:45,036 --> 00:09:48,436 Speaker 2: of Stanford, John Hennessy. He wanted to get together and 159 00:09:48,516 --> 00:09:51,436 Speaker 2: convince me I was wrong. So I talked to him, 160 00:09:51,676 --> 00:09:54,916 Speaker 2: and we'll get to that conversation in a minute. For now, 161 00:09:54,996 --> 00:09:58,636 Speaker 2: I will only say that I was completely baffled by 162 00:09:58,676 --> 00:10:01,236 Speaker 2: my talk with Hennessy. It was as if he and 163 00:10:01,276 --> 00:10:05,156 Speaker 2: I were speaking different languages. I understand the people who 164 00:10:05,196 --> 00:10:08,316 Speaker 2: give money to those who need money, the people who 165 00:10:08,396 --> 00:10:10,796 Speaker 2: give money to these those who already have all the 166 00:10:10,796 --> 00:10:14,596 Speaker 2: money they need. I don't understand that. What are they thinking? 167 00:10:19,236 --> 00:10:21,436 Speaker 2: Let me run an idea by you, which I think 168 00:10:21,516 --> 00:10:25,796 Speaker 2: helps to frame this question. It has to do with soccer, actually, 169 00:10:25,956 --> 00:10:29,876 Speaker 2: the difference between soccer and basketball. This idea comes from 170 00:10:29,876 --> 00:10:33,396 Speaker 2: two economists named David Sally and Chris Anderson, who wrote 171 00:10:33,396 --> 00:10:35,316 Speaker 2: a really great book a couple of years ago about 172 00:10:35,316 --> 00:10:38,876 Speaker 2: soccer called The Numbers Game. One of the questions they 173 00:10:38,876 --> 00:10:41,716 Speaker 2: asked was what matters more if you want to build 174 00:10:41,716 --> 00:10:44,716 Speaker 2: a great soccer team, how good your best player is 175 00:10:45,316 --> 00:10:48,516 Speaker 2: or how good your worst player is. And their answer was, 176 00:10:48,996 --> 00:10:52,476 Speaker 2: in soccer, what matters is how good your worst player is. 177 00:10:53,036 --> 00:10:55,796 Speaker 7: Soccer is a game where if you get a single goal, 178 00:10:55,836 --> 00:10:57,796 Speaker 7: if you just happen to be lucky, that goal may 179 00:10:57,836 --> 00:10:58,396 Speaker 7: hold up. 180 00:10:58,716 --> 00:11:00,236 Speaker 2: That's David Sally, and. 181 00:11:00,196 --> 00:11:03,876 Speaker 7: So mistakes turn out to be a very important part 182 00:11:04,036 --> 00:11:07,036 Speaker 7: of soccer as a team sport that leads you to 183 00:11:07,116 --> 00:11:10,756 Speaker 7: think about well, mistakes more often happen or more often 184 00:11:10,756 --> 00:11:12,796 Speaker 7: produced by weaker players on the pitch. 185 00:11:13,236 --> 00:11:16,836 Speaker 2: Sally's argument goes like this, a soccer team has eleven 186 00:11:16,876 --> 00:11:19,876 Speaker 2: players on the field at any one time. Suppose one 187 00:11:19,956 --> 00:11:23,236 Speaker 2: is a superstar and your worst player is maybe only 188 00:11:23,316 --> 00:11:26,876 Speaker 2: forty five percent as good as a superstar. Because soccer 189 00:11:26,956 --> 00:11:29,636 Speaker 2: is a sport where everyone on the field depends on 190 00:11:29,796 --> 00:11:33,476 Speaker 2: everyone else, that forty five percent player can make one 191 00:11:33,516 --> 00:11:37,076 Speaker 2: mistake and completely negate the skill of the best player. 192 00:11:37,276 --> 00:11:39,396 Speaker 2: You can have eight beautiful passes in a row, but 193 00:11:39,436 --> 00:11:42,516 Speaker 2: if your worst player, your forty five percent player, botches 194 00:11:42,636 --> 00:11:46,356 Speaker 2: the ninth, then all the previous eight beautiful passes are 195 00:11:46,396 --> 00:11:46,876 Speaker 2: all wasted. 196 00:11:46,996 --> 00:11:50,836 Speaker 7: That's right, and because of the nature of soccer that 197 00:11:50,916 --> 00:11:54,596 Speaker 7: those eight beautiful passes may have only increased your likelihood 198 00:11:54,636 --> 00:11:57,156 Speaker 7: of victory by a small percent, but then it goes 199 00:11:57,276 --> 00:11:59,796 Speaker 7: right back to zero because somebody turns the ball over. 200 00:12:00,276 --> 00:12:04,036 Speaker 2: Sally and Anderson did a statistical analysis. They looked at 201 00:12:04,036 --> 00:12:06,556 Speaker 2: the top soccer clubs in Europe and showed that if 202 00:12:06,596 --> 00:12:10,516 Speaker 2: those teams upgraded their poorest players instead of their best players, 203 00:12:10,916 --> 00:12:14,556 Speaker 2: they would score more goals and win more games a 204 00:12:14,596 --> 00:12:17,556 Speaker 2: lot more. Soccer is a weak link game. 205 00:12:18,036 --> 00:12:21,356 Speaker 7: Yes, having a better superstar was of course better, but 206 00:12:21,876 --> 00:12:24,916 Speaker 7: actually having a better end of the bench or eleventh 207 00:12:24,956 --> 00:12:27,876 Speaker 7: guy on the pitch was actually more influential to whether 208 00:12:27,916 --> 00:12:29,596 Speaker 7: you won matches or not, which. 209 00:12:29,436 --> 00:12:32,916 Speaker 2: Would be the exact opposite of basketball. 210 00:12:33,116 --> 00:12:36,116 Speaker 7: Yeah, basketball is probably the opposite end of the continuum 211 00:12:36,156 --> 00:12:39,436 Speaker 7: from If you think about soccer is maybe the weakest 212 00:12:39,476 --> 00:12:43,356 Speaker 7: link sport, Basketball is probably the most superstarter of a 213 00:12:43,396 --> 00:12:44,396 Speaker 7: team sport that we have. 214 00:12:44,876 --> 00:12:48,156 Speaker 2: Even the greatest basketball teams often have won, and sometimes 215 00:12:48,196 --> 00:12:52,556 Speaker 2: even two players who are barely better than mediocre. What 216 00:12:52,596 --> 00:12:55,676 Speaker 2: matters in basketball is not how good your fifth player is, 217 00:12:55,956 --> 00:12:59,516 Speaker 2: It's how good your superstar is. It's a strong link game. 218 00:13:00,996 --> 00:13:04,076 Speaker 2: Think about Lionel Messi, maybe the greatest soccer player of 219 00:13:04,076 --> 00:13:07,996 Speaker 2: his generation, versus Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player of 220 00:13:07,996 --> 00:13:08,596 Speaker 2: his generation. 221 00:13:09,276 --> 00:13:12,836 Speaker 7: Jordan could do on a basketball court was Jordan could 222 00:13:12,916 --> 00:13:15,716 Speaker 7: guarantee or virtually guarantee that he could get the ball. 223 00:13:15,796 --> 00:13:18,636 Speaker 7: You couldn't really stop him, right. He could go to 224 00:13:18,716 --> 00:13:20,956 Speaker 7: the back court, pick up the ball. He could dribble 225 00:13:20,996 --> 00:13:23,956 Speaker 7: it forward. He could break double teams. You could try 226 00:13:23,956 --> 00:13:26,996 Speaker 7: to send three guys at him, but then you're really 227 00:13:27,036 --> 00:13:29,436 Speaker 7: opening yourself up. He could go and get a shot. 228 00:13:29,876 --> 00:13:34,796 Speaker 7: Leo Messi is so good that sometimes from rare times 229 00:13:35,156 --> 00:13:37,596 Speaker 7: where in fact he can dribble the length of the pitch. 230 00:13:37,956 --> 00:13:40,876 Speaker 7: But the fact is that he in most instances, he 231 00:13:40,916 --> 00:13:43,196 Speaker 7: really can't. He needs to be He needs those eight 232 00:13:43,236 --> 00:13:46,396 Speaker 7: beautiful passes to set him up, and then he could 233 00:13:46,436 --> 00:13:48,676 Speaker 7: do something amazingly transcendent with it. 234 00:13:54,556 --> 00:13:58,316 Speaker 2: I think the weak link strong link distinction is incredibly 235 00:13:58,436 --> 00:14:01,476 Speaker 2: useful in making sense of certain kinds of problems. I 236 00:14:01,516 --> 00:14:05,236 Speaker 2: suppose I said to you, for example, here's fifty billion dollars. 237 00:14:05,836 --> 00:14:07,876 Speaker 2: Spend it in a way that makes air travel in 238 00:14:07,916 --> 00:14:10,876 Speaker 2: the United States more efficient. The last thing you would 239 00:14:10,876 --> 00:14:12,636 Speaker 2: do is to go to Denver, which has that big, 240 00:14:12,676 --> 00:14:15,796 Speaker 2: gorgeous new airport, and make it even bigger and even 241 00:14:15,836 --> 00:14:18,996 Speaker 2: more gorgeous. No, you go to the worst and most 242 00:14:19,036 --> 00:14:22,876 Speaker 2: crowded airports in the country, LaGuardia, Newark, Kennedy, and make 243 00:14:22,956 --> 00:14:26,596 Speaker 2: them better. Because every single day, delays at Newark and 244 00:14:26,676 --> 00:14:30,796 Speaker 2: LaGuardia and Kennedy ripple across the country and delay planes everywhere. 245 00:14:31,116 --> 00:14:34,836 Speaker 2: You'd spend all fifty billion dollars in New York. If 246 00:14:34,916 --> 00:14:37,916 Speaker 2: you do that, you're essentially saying air travel in the 247 00:14:37,996 --> 00:14:41,476 Speaker 2: United States is a weak link problem. We're limited by 248 00:14:41,516 --> 00:14:44,556 Speaker 2: how good our appalling New York airports are more than 249 00:14:44,596 --> 00:14:48,716 Speaker 2: by how good our best airports are. Here's another example, 250 00:14:49,356 --> 00:14:52,036 Speaker 2: One of the great puzzles of the Industrial Revolution is 251 00:14:52,036 --> 00:14:55,716 Speaker 2: why it began in England, why not France or Germany. 252 00:14:56,796 --> 00:14:58,836 Speaker 2: One theory is that Britain was lucky enough to have 253 00:14:58,876 --> 00:15:01,956 Speaker 2: more geniuses than anyone else, like James Watt who invents 254 00:15:01,956 --> 00:15:05,756 Speaker 2: the steam engine. But there's an economist named Joel Moker 255 00:15:05,916 --> 00:15:09,596 Speaker 2: who makes a really compelling argument that England's advance is 256 00:15:09,636 --> 00:15:13,036 Speaker 2: that it had way more craftsmen and skilled engineers and 257 00:15:13,196 --> 00:15:18,156 Speaker 2: experienced in mechanically minded backyard tinkers than anyone else. Those 258 00:15:18,156 --> 00:15:20,676 Speaker 2: were the people who were able to take those inventions 259 00:15:20,716 --> 00:15:24,276 Speaker 2: and perfect them and make them useful. Moker is saying 260 00:15:24,476 --> 00:15:28,356 Speaker 2: that the Industrial Revolution was a weak link phenomenon, not 261 00:15:28,396 --> 00:15:32,116 Speaker 2: a strong link phenomenon, and because Britain had more craftsmen 262 00:15:32,156 --> 00:15:35,676 Speaker 2: than France or Germany, that gave Britain a huge advantage. 263 00:15:39,756 --> 00:15:43,996 Speaker 2: So what's Hank rowan? Hank Rohn is a weak link guy. 264 00:15:44,116 --> 00:15:46,276 Speaker 2: He wants to make a difference to make his country 265 00:15:46,316 --> 00:15:49,316 Speaker 2: a better place, and he thinks the best way to 266 00:15:49,396 --> 00:15:52,236 Speaker 2: do that is to improve the forty five percent player, 267 00:15:52,596 --> 00:15:56,876 Speaker 2: not the superstar. He thinks America is soccer, not basketball. 268 00:15:57,636 --> 00:16:00,716 Speaker 5: You're a graduate of MIT right here. 269 00:16:00,756 --> 00:16:03,396 Speaker 2: He is again in the interview with Don Ferish of 270 00:16:03,436 --> 00:16:04,356 Speaker 2: Glasboro State. 271 00:16:05,116 --> 00:16:09,316 Speaker 5: Now, I would assume that MIT at that time would 272 00:16:09,316 --> 00:16:12,596 Speaker 5: have been interested in receiving a gift of that size 273 00:16:12,596 --> 00:16:15,556 Speaker 5: from you. Did you did you think about giving it 274 00:16:15,636 --> 00:16:17,116 Speaker 5: to that university? 275 00:16:17,196 --> 00:16:20,516 Speaker 1: You're no, okay. They were at the time trying to 276 00:16:20,636 --> 00:16:28,116 Speaker 1: raise seven hundred and fifty million dollars, and my little 277 00:16:28,316 --> 00:16:30,836 Speaker 1: Hunter Mayon wouldn't have made hardly any immerge at. 278 00:16:30,716 --> 00:16:36,156 Speaker 2: All, hardly any difference at all. That's David Sally's point 279 00:16:36,156 --> 00:16:40,316 Speaker 2: about soccer. Upgrading the superstar doesn't help as much as 280 00:16:40,396 --> 00:16:44,476 Speaker 2: upgrading the worst player. Here's Hank Rowen's daughter Jinny again. 281 00:16:44,836 --> 00:16:49,356 Speaker 4: Basically, he said MIT had the greatest engineering school bar none. 282 00:16:49,396 --> 00:16:52,156 Speaker 4: He said it was the best education he could ever imagine. 283 00:16:52,556 --> 00:16:54,396 Speaker 4: And he said, I'm sure they would do good things 284 00:16:54,436 --> 00:16:56,876 Speaker 4: with my money, they'd build a building or do something positive. 285 00:16:56,916 --> 00:16:59,556 Speaker 4: But he said it wouldn't make the difference that it's 286 00:16:59,596 --> 00:17:02,116 Speaker 4: going to make down here. He said, I enjoy making 287 00:17:02,156 --> 00:17:03,436 Speaker 4: a difference in this world. 288 00:17:04,316 --> 00:17:07,716 Speaker 2: So he funds an engineering school in Glassboro. It's not 289 00:17:07,836 --> 00:17:10,676 Speaker 2: the best or the fancy engineering school in the country, 290 00:17:10,996 --> 00:17:15,916 Speaker 2: but it's not supposed to be. So it's one one 291 00:17:15,996 --> 00:17:16,796 Speaker 2: four story building? 292 00:17:16,876 --> 00:17:19,036 Speaker 8: Is it four is it's three story building? And then 293 00:17:19,076 --> 00:17:20,916 Speaker 8: it has two wings to it, and there's labs. 294 00:17:20,956 --> 00:17:21,676 Speaker 3: We'll walk down. 295 00:17:22,196 --> 00:17:24,676 Speaker 2: I went for a tour with Joe Cardona, the university's 296 00:17:24,716 --> 00:17:25,356 Speaker 2: head of pr. 297 00:17:26,796 --> 00:17:28,916 Speaker 3: You know, we're in a state institution, so a building 298 00:17:28,956 --> 00:17:29,716 Speaker 3: like this was like wow. 299 00:17:29,716 --> 00:17:30,436 Speaker 1: I was bang. 300 00:17:30,476 --> 00:17:33,156 Speaker 3: You know, look it's an engineer and building. Yeah, and 301 00:17:33,796 --> 00:17:35,356 Speaker 3: so here, why don't we just walk down a holiday 302 00:17:35,396 --> 00:17:35,516 Speaker 3: of it. 303 00:17:35,636 --> 00:17:36,596 Speaker 5: Yeah. 304 00:17:36,996 --> 00:17:39,196 Speaker 2: The school was built in the mid nineteen nineties for 305 00:17:39,276 --> 00:17:42,756 Speaker 2: five hundred students. They've now crammed seven hundred and fifty 306 00:17:42,796 --> 00:17:45,116 Speaker 2: into the building while they wait for a new annex 307 00:17:45,156 --> 00:17:48,396 Speaker 2: to be finished next door. Eventually they want to double 308 00:17:48,436 --> 00:17:52,076 Speaker 2: the school size. The point is not to be more exclusive, 309 00:17:52,516 --> 00:17:56,596 Speaker 2: it's to get bigger to serve more students. Cardona and 310 00:17:56,636 --> 00:17:58,876 Speaker 2: I stopped by a lab where a group of students 311 00:17:58,876 --> 00:18:02,076 Speaker 2: were working on a Baja car, basically a home engineer 312 00:18:02,156 --> 00:18:05,076 Speaker 2: doom buggy that will race against other engineering schools on 313 00:18:05,116 --> 00:18:06,116 Speaker 2: an endurance course. 314 00:18:06,556 --> 00:18:09,116 Speaker 9: So we got some aircraft grade aluminum. We have it 315 00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:11,476 Speaker 9: two access water jack cutter that can cut out profiles, 316 00:18:11,836 --> 00:18:14,596 Speaker 9: and we design a part that's bolted together that way. 317 00:18:15,116 --> 00:18:16,076 Speaker 7: It's nice and strong. 318 00:18:16,076 --> 00:18:18,276 Speaker 9: And they're graded bolt. But if it does break, you 319 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:21,196 Speaker 9: can replace individual pieces without having to make a whole 320 00:18:21,236 --> 00:18:21,836 Speaker 9: new assembly. 321 00:18:22,116 --> 00:18:25,076 Speaker 2: The four students I meet, Matt, Seohn, Owen, and Kyle 322 00:18:25,436 --> 00:18:28,516 Speaker 2: all grew up around here. Are most of the students 323 00:18:28,516 --> 00:18:30,156 Speaker 2: in the engineering school from New Jersey? 324 00:18:31,316 --> 00:18:34,196 Speaker 7: I would say, yeah, yeah. 325 00:18:34,716 --> 00:18:38,196 Speaker 2: Net tuition in state is about nine thousand dollars a year, 326 00:18:38,556 --> 00:18:42,276 Speaker 2: which is pretty reasonable for an engineering school. Ninety five 327 00:18:42,316 --> 00:18:45,316 Speaker 2: percent get jobs in engineering when they graduate, and. 328 00:18:45,276 --> 00:18:47,156 Speaker 3: We really want to do what I call a blue 329 00:18:47,156 --> 00:18:50,996 Speaker 3: collar research, research that is practical that people can see 330 00:18:51,036 --> 00:18:52,116 Speaker 3: the tangible. 331 00:18:51,636 --> 00:18:56,476 Speaker 2: Result of Ali Hushman, the university's president. He's an immigrant 332 00:18:56,516 --> 00:18:58,916 Speaker 2: from Iran. He grew up in a slum in Tehran, 333 00:18:59,036 --> 00:19:00,236 Speaker 2: fifth in a family of ten. 334 00:19:00,556 --> 00:19:02,516 Speaker 3: People used to ask me to compare you. That said, 335 00:19:02,556 --> 00:19:05,116 Speaker 3: the best competison would be to tell you, if you 336 00:19:05,156 --> 00:19:07,756 Speaker 3: have seen slum Dog Millionaire, you look at that. This 337 00:19:07,876 --> 00:19:12,036 Speaker 3: one was twice as hard and tough. Oh. Yes, we're 338 00:19:12,036 --> 00:19:16,636 Speaker 3: a very close family, but very poor. I mean poor 339 00:19:16,796 --> 00:19:20,276 Speaker 3: to the extent that you walk in the streets without shoes. 340 00:19:20,756 --> 00:19:23,796 Speaker 2: Hushman runs marathons, which is kind of what you'd expect, 341 00:19:23,876 --> 00:19:26,076 Speaker 2: right for someone who made it out of the slums 342 00:19:26,076 --> 00:19:29,996 Speaker 2: of Tehran, A typical student at the engineering school. Where 343 00:19:30,036 --> 00:19:31,836 Speaker 2: are they from? Can you give me a kind of 344 00:19:31,916 --> 00:19:32,996 Speaker 2: profile of it. 345 00:19:33,076 --> 00:19:36,516 Speaker 3: A profile of a kid from engineering. Your father is 346 00:19:36,556 --> 00:19:41,076 Speaker 3: a you know, fireman, a mom is a teacher. The 347 00:19:41,196 --> 00:19:45,356 Speaker 3: kid has been going to a public school. He's from 348 00:19:45,836 --> 00:19:50,756 Speaker 3: forty miles from here, and he's just a brilliant young 349 00:19:50,796 --> 00:19:53,876 Speaker 3: man or woman. Gone through public school and got great 350 00:19:53,876 --> 00:19:56,756 Speaker 3: schools and very much focused. 351 00:19:57,516 --> 00:20:01,076 Speaker 2: It's you in other words, Yes, yes, school full of valley. 352 00:20:01,196 --> 00:20:04,196 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's the beauty of it, Malcolm. That's why 353 00:20:04,236 --> 00:20:05,716 Speaker 3: I say it's a blue collar university. 354 00:20:10,076 --> 00:20:12,996 Speaker 2: Now I'm convinced by Ali Huschmann and by Hank Rowen. 355 00:20:13,596 --> 00:20:17,916 Speaker 2: I think American society really is soccer. We're so interdependent 356 00:20:18,116 --> 00:20:20,636 Speaker 2: and we need so many perfect passes to score a 357 00:20:20,676 --> 00:20:24,836 Speaker 2: goal that our challenges are weeklink, not strong link. What 358 00:20:24,916 --> 00:20:28,316 Speaker 2: matters is how good our eleventh player is, not our first. 359 00:20:28,916 --> 00:20:32,236 Speaker 2: We're in a second industrial revolution, and the lesson of 360 00:20:32,316 --> 00:20:34,596 Speaker 2: this one isn't any different from the lesson of the 361 00:20:34,676 --> 00:20:38,876 Speaker 2: last one. But it's really hard to get people to 362 00:20:38,956 --> 00:20:44,596 Speaker 2: accept weeklink arguments. David Sally, the economist who studied soccer, 363 00:20:44,956 --> 00:20:47,996 Speaker 2: says he'll go to some billionaire oligarch who owns an 364 00:20:47,996 --> 00:20:51,436 Speaker 2: English Premier League team and say, don't spend your eighty 365 00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:55,116 Speaker 2: million pounds on one superstar player, spend it on four 366 00:20:55,556 --> 00:20:59,276 Speaker 2: pretty good players at twenty million pounds each. But the 367 00:20:59,276 --> 00:21:00,676 Speaker 2: oligarch doesn't want to hear that. 368 00:21:01,356 --> 00:21:05,996 Speaker 7: If the oligarch is only worried about winning soccer matches, 369 00:21:06,956 --> 00:21:11,116 Speaker 7: I can sell that that's believable. Oligarchs by teams for 370 00:21:11,196 --> 00:21:13,996 Speaker 7: many other reasons, including wanting to hang out with really 371 00:21:14,036 --> 00:21:18,196 Speaker 7: good looking soccer strikers and wanting to sell a lot 372 00:21:18,196 --> 00:21:21,356 Speaker 7: of shirts. A weak link strategy is not gonna be 373 00:21:21,436 --> 00:21:22,636 Speaker 7: the most glamorous thing. 374 00:21:23,036 --> 00:21:28,196 Speaker 2: And that's the problem. Superstars are glamorous. Nobel Prize winners 375 00:21:28,276 --> 00:21:32,796 Speaker 2: are glamorous. Regional universities in rural South Jersey, and solid 376 00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:34,836 Speaker 2: capable midfielders are not. 377 00:21:36,676 --> 00:21:40,796 Speaker 7: What people remember are the unbelievably beautiful goals. 378 00:21:41,236 --> 00:21:42,556 Speaker 1: It's a brilliant road for missing. 379 00:21:42,756 --> 00:21:43,676 Speaker 8: I'm going to go all away. 380 00:21:45,596 --> 00:21:49,076 Speaker 10: It's gonna be great coming away final goals. 381 00:21:49,836 --> 00:21:53,476 Speaker 7: They may not realize that the seven, maybe less glamorous 382 00:21:53,476 --> 00:21:56,916 Speaker 7: passes that set up that eighth beautiful through ball were 383 00:21:56,956 --> 00:22:00,276 Speaker 7: maybe arguably just as important, but they were much more mundane, 384 00:22:00,356 --> 00:22:03,516 Speaker 7: and they just involved simple movement to open spaces, and 385 00:22:04,316 --> 00:22:06,436 Speaker 7: people don't adequately value that. 386 00:22:10,676 --> 00:22:13,636 Speaker 10: When we asked ourselves the question, what could Stanford do 387 00:22:13,876 --> 00:22:17,116 Speaker 10: to make a better contribution to the world, we quickly 388 00:22:17,156 --> 00:22:20,276 Speaker 10: converged on building a scholarship program that would bring the 389 00:22:20,316 --> 00:22:23,636 Speaker 10: most talented students and prepare them to be leaders in 390 00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:26,036 Speaker 10: the world, to lead on attacking the. 391 00:22:26,036 --> 00:22:30,436 Speaker 2: Important John Hennessy, president of Stanford University since two thousand, 392 00:22:31,036 --> 00:22:35,196 Speaker 2: widely considered one of the greatest presidents in Stanford history. 393 00:22:35,996 --> 00:22:38,596 Speaker 8: As I began to think about the end of my 394 00:22:39,196 --> 00:22:43,476 Speaker 8: term as president, I started to think, was there something 395 00:22:43,556 --> 00:22:46,876 Speaker 8: else perhaps we could do where we could build on 396 00:22:47,476 --> 00:22:51,916 Speaker 8: everything we've put in place at Stanford and offer something 397 00:22:52,036 --> 00:22:54,876 Speaker 8: that would be a great thing for the world. 398 00:22:55,516 --> 00:22:58,036 Speaker 2: Not long before we talked, I took a walk across 399 00:22:58,036 --> 00:23:02,196 Speaker 2: the Stanford campus and it's like entering a shrine higher education. 400 00:23:02,916 --> 00:23:08,516 Speaker 2: Everything is gleaming, gorgeous, groomed green. That's all Hennessy's work. 401 00:23:09,116 --> 00:23:12,996 Speaker 2: He's transformed the school, doubled the endowment from eleven to 402 00:23:13,076 --> 00:23:18,716 Speaker 2: twenty two billion dollars, made it into maybe the greatest university. 403 00:23:18,316 --> 00:23:18,996 Speaker 4: In the world. 404 00:23:19,716 --> 00:23:22,836 Speaker 2: When we talked, he was just about to retire and 405 00:23:22,916 --> 00:23:24,636 Speaker 2: thinking about his legacy. 406 00:23:24,356 --> 00:23:29,436 Speaker 8: Many people, myself included, became increasingly concerned about what we 407 00:23:29,516 --> 00:23:33,796 Speaker 8: saw as a void in great leadership around the world, 408 00:23:33,436 --> 00:23:36,236 Speaker 8: in the public sector as well as in the private sector. 409 00:23:36,636 --> 00:23:40,356 Speaker 2: Hennessy decided he wanted to start a graduate program kind 410 00:23:40,396 --> 00:23:43,676 Speaker 2: of like the Rhodes Scholarship. Every year, it would bring 411 00:23:43,756 --> 00:23:47,476 Speaker 2: one hundred of the brightest, most accomplished college grads from 412 00:23:47,556 --> 00:23:50,596 Speaker 2: around the world to Stamford and let them apply their 413 00:23:50,716 --> 00:23:53,796 Speaker 2: minds to the problems of the world. He goes to 414 00:23:53,876 --> 00:23:58,116 Speaker 2: his deans, then his trustees. Everyone loves the idea. 415 00:23:58,116 --> 00:24:00,636 Speaker 8: And then over the summer last summer, I went to 416 00:24:00,956 --> 00:24:04,236 Speaker 8: Phil Knight and explained the idea to him, and he 417 00:24:04,316 --> 00:24:06,916 Speaker 8: was enthusiastic about it and came back a month later 418 00:24:06,956 --> 00:24:09,076 Speaker 8: and said he'd help us make it happen. 419 00:24:09,596 --> 00:24:12,236 Speaker 2: Remember, Phil Knight is the co founder of Nike, a 420 00:24:12,276 --> 00:24:16,316 Speaker 2: billionaire many times over at a serious philanthropist. How did 421 00:24:16,356 --> 00:24:18,556 Speaker 2: you pick Phil Knight as someone to approach? Was he 422 00:24:18,596 --> 00:24:19,716 Speaker 2: the first person you approached? 423 00:24:20,076 --> 00:24:24,356 Speaker 8: I knew Phil had been concerned about leadership globally. He 424 00:24:24,436 --> 00:24:26,956 Speaker 8: and I had had a good working relationship. 425 00:24:27,356 --> 00:24:30,236 Speaker 2: So he ends up giving four hundred million. How does 426 00:24:30,276 --> 00:24:32,236 Speaker 2: what arrive at that number? Is that a number you 427 00:24:32,276 --> 00:24:33,236 Speaker 2: suggested to him. 428 00:24:33,956 --> 00:24:36,956 Speaker 8: It's roughly half. I mean where our goal is somewhere 429 00:24:36,996 --> 00:24:40,436 Speaker 8: in the seven fifty to eight hundred to implement the 430 00:24:40,596 --> 00:24:45,156 Speaker 8: entire program, secure it permanently, and so I think in 431 00:24:45,196 --> 00:24:49,396 Speaker 8: the past finding a naming gift that of that scale 432 00:24:49,476 --> 00:24:51,556 Speaker 8: is probably necessary, and then you can find gifts to 433 00:24:51,556 --> 00:24:53,156 Speaker 8: fill in the rest of it. 434 00:24:53,156 --> 00:24:55,836 Speaker 2: It was my criticism of the phil Knight donation that 435 00:24:55,956 --> 00:24:58,796 Speaker 2: led Hennessy to get in touch with me. He wanted 436 00:24:58,796 --> 00:25:02,076 Speaker 2: to explain his thinking, which is John Hennessy wants to 437 00:25:02,116 --> 00:25:05,036 Speaker 2: do a great thing for the world, so he sets 438 00:25:05,116 --> 00:25:08,036 Speaker 2: up an eight hundred million dollar graduate program for one 439 00:25:08,116 --> 00:25:08,836 Speaker 2: hundred elites. 440 00:25:08,876 --> 00:25:09,036 Speaker 1: Doud. 441 00:25:10,036 --> 00:25:13,916 Speaker 2: He's the anti Rowan, right Hank. Rowan wanted to start 442 00:25:13,956 --> 00:25:16,876 Speaker 2: at the bottom and tries to lift as many people 443 00:25:16,956 --> 00:25:21,116 Speaker 2: up as possible. Hennessy starts at the top and lavishes 444 00:25:21,316 --> 00:25:25,396 Speaker 2: eight hundred million on the most exclusive group he can find. 445 00:25:26,236 --> 00:25:30,436 Speaker 2: Rowan is a weaklink guy. His world is soccer. Hennessy 446 00:25:30,596 --> 00:25:34,116 Speaker 2: is playing basketball and he wants to focus his billions 447 00:25:34,476 --> 00:25:37,476 Speaker 2: on the superstars. In the time you've been to Stanford, 448 00:25:37,476 --> 00:25:40,596 Speaker 2: that endowment went from what from eleven to twenty two, 449 00:25:40,676 --> 00:25:41,156 Speaker 2: Is that right? 450 00:25:41,436 --> 00:25:41,676 Speaker 10: Yeah? 451 00:25:41,716 --> 00:25:44,676 Speaker 8: Probably about eleven to twenty two, right, most of that's 452 00:25:44,756 --> 00:25:47,676 Speaker 8: endowment returns, not mostly gifts, but there's some gifts in 453 00:25:47,676 --> 00:25:48,476 Speaker 8: there too, obviously. 454 00:25:48,676 --> 00:25:54,676 Speaker 2: What is uh, how much is enough for institution lake Stanford? 455 00:25:54,876 --> 00:26:02,596 Speaker 8: How much is enough? I think we if our ambitions 456 00:26:02,716 --> 00:26:05,676 Speaker 8: don't grow, then I think you do reach a point 457 00:26:05,676 --> 00:26:08,956 Speaker 8: where you have enough money, and I would hope that 458 00:26:09,956 --> 00:26:12,436 Speaker 8: our ambitions for what we want to do as an institution, 459 00:26:12,636 --> 00:26:18,156 Speaker 8: both in our teaching and our research grow. 460 00:26:19,076 --> 00:26:21,916 Speaker 2: In other words, there really isn't such a thing at 461 00:26:21,916 --> 00:26:25,996 Speaker 2: Stanford as enough money. The school's ambitions are always growing, 462 00:26:26,396 --> 00:26:29,956 Speaker 2: so it's endowment should too. Just because you already have 463 00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:33,356 Speaker 2: more resources than almost anyone else doesn't mean you should 464 00:26:33,356 --> 00:26:38,116 Speaker 2: stop collecting even more resources. Hennessy is a hard core 465 00:26:38,196 --> 00:26:44,236 Speaker 2: strong linker. Hypothetically, if you know Bill Gates or Larry 466 00:26:44,276 --> 00:26:48,356 Speaker 2: Ellison came to you and said, I'm giving you ten 467 00:26:48,436 --> 00:26:51,756 Speaker 2: billion dollars, I'm retiring and I'm giving it all. My 468 00:26:51,876 --> 00:26:55,276 Speaker 2: will says everything goes to Stanford. I mean, would you 469 00:26:55,316 --> 00:26:58,156 Speaker 2: say we don't know, we don't need it, or would 470 00:26:58,156 --> 00:27:00,316 Speaker 2: you say we can put the money to good use. 471 00:27:01,556 --> 00:27:06,876 Speaker 8: Well, first of all, I don't think either Larry Ellison 472 00:27:06,956 --> 00:27:08,916 Speaker 8: or Bill Gates is going to give me ten billion 473 00:27:08,956 --> 00:27:11,436 Speaker 8: dollar unless I tell them exactly what I'm going to 474 00:27:11,516 --> 00:27:12,796 Speaker 8: do with it and how I'm going to make it 475 00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:15,516 Speaker 8: a good investment. Since I know both I know both 476 00:27:15,556 --> 00:27:18,036 Speaker 8: of them, I can tell you they won't. 477 00:27:17,396 --> 00:27:18,116 Speaker 7: They won't do it. 478 00:27:18,996 --> 00:27:21,156 Speaker 2: Could you make an argument to Larry Ellison as you 479 00:27:21,156 --> 00:27:23,276 Speaker 2: could put if he gave you ten billion, you could 480 00:27:23,276 --> 00:27:28,036 Speaker 2: put it to good use, ten billion just to put 481 00:27:28,116 --> 00:27:31,196 Speaker 2: us in the ballpark. Because I worry sometimes that Americans 482 00:27:31,196 --> 00:27:34,996 Speaker 2: get a little jaded about big numbers. Ten billion is 483 00:27:35,036 --> 00:27:38,356 Speaker 2: a few billion more than the gross domestic product of Barbados, 484 00:27:38,836 --> 00:27:43,836 Speaker 2: and four billion shy of the gross domestic product of Jamaica. Basically, 485 00:27:44,116 --> 00:27:47,996 Speaker 2: I'm asking what would happen if someone gave you, Stanford 486 00:27:48,356 --> 00:27:52,316 Speaker 2: the average economic output of an entire Caribbean country for 487 00:27:52,436 --> 00:27:55,956 Speaker 2: a year, tax free. By the way, the guy who 488 00:27:55,956 --> 00:27:58,436 Speaker 2: gives the ten billion gets to write it off, and 489 00:27:58,636 --> 00:28:02,156 Speaker 2: every dollar Stanford earns on that ten billion, they get 490 00:28:02,156 --> 00:28:03,516 Speaker 2: to keep ten billion. 491 00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:08,756 Speaker 8: I'd have to do something really dramatic for ten billion dollars, 492 00:28:09,316 --> 00:28:10,636 Speaker 8: really dramatic. 493 00:28:10,916 --> 00:28:13,436 Speaker 2: He thinks about it for a moment. Actually, I counted 494 00:28:13,876 --> 00:28:16,636 Speaker 2: for about two seconds. Then he comes up with something 495 00:28:16,676 --> 00:28:17,396 Speaker 2: really dramatic. 496 00:28:17,796 --> 00:28:21,716 Speaker 8: The one area where I think there is an opportunity 497 00:28:21,756 --> 00:28:28,076 Speaker 8: for significant incremental funding is in the biomedical sciences. If 498 00:28:28,076 --> 00:28:32,716 Speaker 8: that were an endowment, for example, so you're throwing out 499 00:28:32,716 --> 00:28:35,956 Speaker 8: a half a billion dollars a year, I could find 500 00:28:35,996 --> 00:28:37,996 Speaker 8: a way to spend a half billion dollars a year 501 00:28:37,996 --> 00:28:39,516 Speaker 8: in biomedical research. 502 00:28:41,636 --> 00:28:46,956 Speaker 2: Ten billion. He could totally use another ten billion. At 503 00:28:46,956 --> 00:28:50,436 Speaker 2: this point, I'm just curious. I mean, I've read about 504 00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:53,956 Speaker 2: strong link thinkers in books, but I've never actually talked 505 00:28:53,996 --> 00:28:57,596 Speaker 2: with one before. So I keep posing more and more 506 00:28:57,956 --> 00:29:01,716 Speaker 2: far fetched scenarios. Do you ever imagine that a president 507 00:29:01,796 --> 00:29:06,036 Speaker 2: of Stanford might go to a funder and say, at 508 00:29:06,036 --> 00:29:07,756 Speaker 2: this point in our history, the best use of your 509 00:29:07,756 --> 00:29:10,196 Speaker 2: money is to give to the UC system, not to Stanford. 510 00:29:10,676 --> 00:29:14,156 Speaker 2: The UC system is the University of California system ten 511 00:29:14,196 --> 00:29:18,916 Speaker 2: schools Berkeley, UCLA, San Diego, Davis, Santa Barbara, et cetera. 512 00:29:19,476 --> 00:29:23,036 Speaker 2: Maybe the finest group of public universities in the world. 513 00:29:23,436 --> 00:29:26,356 Speaker 2: If you listen to the previous episode of Revisionist History, 514 00:29:26,596 --> 00:29:28,996 Speaker 2: the one about Vassar, I talked about the New York 515 00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:32,356 Speaker 2: Times Access Index. It's a ranking of one hundred and 516 00:29:32,356 --> 00:29:34,836 Speaker 2: eighty universities in the US according to how good a 517 00:29:34,876 --> 00:29:38,756 Speaker 2: job they do in finding, educating, and financially supporting low 518 00:29:38,836 --> 00:29:43,876 Speaker 2: income students. Right now, Vasser comes in eighth. Well, six 519 00:29:44,076 --> 00:29:47,236 Speaker 2: of the first seven spots on that list are University 520 00:29:47,276 --> 00:29:52,556 Speaker 2: of California schools. Stanford has sixteen thousand students. The UC 521 00:29:52,756 --> 00:29:56,876 Speaker 2: system has two hundred and thirty eight thousand students. So 522 00:29:56,916 --> 00:30:01,196 Speaker 2: I'm asking John Hannessy, might there ever ever be an 523 00:30:01,196 --> 00:30:06,156 Speaker 2: instance where he might tell a would be super philanthropist. Look, 524 00:30:06,796 --> 00:30:09,076 Speaker 2: we've already got twenty two billion dollars in the BA, 525 00:30:09,476 --> 00:30:12,476 Speaker 2: higher than the output of two Caribbean countries, and it's 526 00:30:12,516 --> 00:30:15,836 Speaker 2: earning us a couple of tax free billions every year. 527 00:30:16,716 --> 00:30:20,356 Speaker 2: Your dollar would go further at the public institutions down 528 00:30:20,356 --> 00:30:23,876 Speaker 2: the street, since they educate two hundred and twenty two 529 00:30:24,076 --> 00:30:26,916 Speaker 2: thousand more students than we do with a fraction of 530 00:30:26,956 --> 00:30:31,156 Speaker 2: the endowment. I'm not holding Hennessy to his answer. I'm 531 00:30:31,196 --> 00:30:34,196 Speaker 2: not looking for him to make a solemn pledge. I'm 532 00:30:34,276 --> 00:30:38,876 Speaker 2: just asking, well, that would be a hard thing to do, obviously, to. 533 00:30:40,836 --> 00:30:44,996 Speaker 8: Turn them turn them away. And I think the other 534 00:30:45,076 --> 00:30:49,116 Speaker 8: question we'd be asked is how can I have confidence 535 00:30:49,116 --> 00:30:52,516 Speaker 8: that they'll use my money? Well, which we're obviously the 536 00:30:52,556 --> 00:30:55,276 Speaker 8: president of Stanford is not in a position to vouch for. 537 00:30:55,196 --> 00:30:59,196 Speaker 2: I think now I realize he has institutional loyalties. He's 538 00:30:59,196 --> 00:31:03,116 Speaker 2: the head of Stanford, and I must say, I like Tennessee. 539 00:31:03,356 --> 00:31:05,756 Speaker 2: But am I the only one who finds his answer 540 00:31:05,916 --> 00:31:11,476 Speaker 2: ridiculous even offensive? He's suggesting that he can't guarantee that 541 00:31:11,556 --> 00:31:15,276 Speaker 2: the UC system may be the most successful and socially 542 00:31:15,316 --> 00:31:19,876 Speaker 2: progressive public university system in the world. He can't guarantee 543 00:31:20,036 --> 00:31:23,516 Speaker 2: they would use that money well as opposed to what 544 00:31:24,276 --> 00:31:27,036 Speaker 2: as opposed to spending eight hundred million dollars on a 545 00:31:27,036 --> 00:31:30,116 Speaker 2: boutique graduate program for one hundred elite students a year. 546 00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:32,476 Speaker 2: That kind of using money, Well. 547 00:31:32,756 --> 00:31:36,436 Speaker 11: It is the pre eminent scholarship program. You'll get the 548 00:31:36,436 --> 00:31:38,836 Speaker 11: best and brightest young men and women from around the 549 00:31:38,876 --> 00:31:41,796 Speaker 11: world who will receive a graduate education at the world's 550 00:31:41,796 --> 00:31:43,396 Speaker 11: best university. 551 00:31:43,116 --> 00:31:44,716 Speaker 7: When this program is established. 552 00:31:45,076 --> 00:31:48,116 Speaker 2: That's the promotional video for the Scholarship Fund. You just 553 00:31:48,156 --> 00:31:50,756 Speaker 2: heard Phil Knight talking about it. You can watch all 554 00:31:50,796 --> 00:31:53,916 Speaker 2: four minutes and twenty three seconds of it at revisionististory 555 00:31:53,956 --> 00:31:57,836 Speaker 2: dot com. It's impressive lots of drone aerial shots of 556 00:31:57,916 --> 00:32:02,156 Speaker 2: Stanford's spotless palm lined avenues. But let's do the math 557 00:32:02,236 --> 00:32:08,516 Speaker 2: on the scholarship. Hennessy's plan is to fund it from 558 00:32:08,516 --> 00:32:12,516 Speaker 2: the proceeds of investing eight hundred million dollars. It's an endowment. 559 00:32:13,076 --> 00:32:15,556 Speaker 2: The usual rule of thumb is that an endowment gives 560 00:32:15,556 --> 00:32:18,796 Speaker 2: you about five percent a year, so forty million dollars 561 00:32:19,396 --> 00:32:21,316 Speaker 2: and with one hundred students a year in a three 562 00:32:21,396 --> 00:32:24,036 Speaker 2: year program, that comes out to one hundred and thirty 563 00:32:24,036 --> 00:32:28,356 Speaker 2: three thousand dollars per student. One hundred and thirty three 564 00:32:28,356 --> 00:32:34,796 Speaker 2: thousand dollars per student per year are precious medals also involved? Helicopters? 565 00:32:35,236 --> 00:32:37,316 Speaker 2: Are they doing this on a beach at Saint Bart's. 566 00:32:38,356 --> 00:32:41,556 Speaker 2: When Hennessy announced this scholarship, he gave an example of 567 00:32:41,596 --> 00:32:44,676 Speaker 2: the kind of issues that perhaps these mega scholars could tackle. 568 00:32:45,516 --> 00:32:47,276 Speaker 2: He thought that they could look at the effects of 569 00:32:47,316 --> 00:32:50,396 Speaker 2: one hundred million dollar gift that the Facebook founder Mark 570 00:32:50,476 --> 00:32:54,276 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg gave to the New Jersey public school system. Newark 571 00:32:54,396 --> 00:32:57,996 Speaker 2: historically has some of the worst public schools in the country, 572 00:32:58,236 --> 00:33:01,556 Speaker 2: and I guess the reason Hennessy thought Zuckerberg's gift needed 573 00:33:01,556 --> 00:33:03,916 Speaker 2: to be studied. Was that there's a feeling among some 574 00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:07,356 Speaker 2: that the donation hasn't had quite the impact people thought 575 00:33:07,356 --> 00:33:10,636 Speaker 2: it might. This is That's the exact quote Hennessy gave 576 00:33:10,716 --> 00:33:15,196 Speaker 2: to The New York Times. Nobody understood the real difficulty 577 00:33:15,236 --> 00:33:21,516 Speaker 2: in making significant change in the public education system. The 578 00:33:21,636 --> 00:33:24,276 Speaker 2: first thing that the strong Link guy wants to do 579 00:33:24,356 --> 00:33:27,116 Speaker 2: with his crack team of eight hundred million dollar scholars 580 00:33:27,476 --> 00:33:30,116 Speaker 2: is critique the weak Link decision to spend one hundred 581 00:33:30,116 --> 00:33:34,196 Speaker 2: million dollars on poor kids. A billionaire gives a fortune 582 00:33:34,236 --> 00:33:37,276 Speaker 2: to an elite school in order to understand why another 583 00:33:37,396 --> 00:33:41,716 Speaker 2: billionaire's donation to a poor school isn't working out? And 584 00:33:41,796 --> 00:33:45,636 Speaker 2: what if Stanford's mega million dollar scholars can't answer that question, 585 00:33:46,556 --> 00:33:49,636 Speaker 2: should another billionaire give it even more money to an 586 00:33:49,636 --> 00:33:52,156 Speaker 2: even more lead school to answer the question of why 587 00:33:52,156 --> 00:33:54,756 Speaker 2: the four hundred million dollar gift to study the one 588 00:33:54,876 --> 00:33:59,996 Speaker 2: hundred million dollar gift hasn't worked out. Please stop me 589 00:34:00,116 --> 00:34:05,996 Speaker 2: before I tweet again. I'm not saying that the strong 590 00:34:06,076 --> 00:34:09,636 Speaker 2: Link approach is never appropriate. I grew up in Canada 591 00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:12,516 Speaker 2: in the nineteen seventies, and at that time the country 592 00:34:12,516 --> 00:34:15,316 Speaker 2: had lots of good universities, but there was a feeling 593 00:34:15,436 --> 00:34:17,996 Speaker 2: that what the country needed was at least one world 594 00:34:18,036 --> 00:34:22,716 Speaker 2: class science in technology university. So they created that, the 595 00:34:22,836 --> 00:34:26,436 Speaker 2: University of Waterloo, and it was a great idea. But 596 00:34:26,556 --> 00:34:30,356 Speaker 2: the United States today is not Canada in the nineteen seventies. 597 00:34:30,916 --> 00:34:34,756 Speaker 2: It does not suffer from an excess of egalitarianism. It 598 00:34:34,836 --> 00:34:38,676 Speaker 2: suffers from the opposite problem. Its strong links have never 599 00:34:38,716 --> 00:34:42,116 Speaker 2: been stronger. And when you make strong link arguments at 600 00:34:42,116 --> 00:34:47,316 Speaker 2: a time like now, you end up sounding ridiculous. Just listen. 601 00:34:51,596 --> 00:34:56,156 Speaker 2: February twenty fourteen, the billionaire hedge fund manager Ken Griffin 602 00:34:56,236 --> 00:34:59,756 Speaker 2: gives one hundred and fifty million dollars to Harvard is 603 00:34:59,836 --> 00:35:03,876 Speaker 2: to support Harvard's financial aid program. Here's what the President 604 00:35:03,876 --> 00:35:08,876 Speaker 2: of Harvard says, Ken Griffin's extraordinary philanthropy is opening Harvard's 605 00:35:08,876 --> 00:35:12,316 Speaker 2: gate wider to the most talented students in the world, 606 00:35:12,676 --> 00:35:17,676 Speaker 2: no matter their economic circumstances. And here's what Ken Griffin says. 607 00:35:18,596 --> 00:35:20,996 Speaker 2: My goal with this gift is to make sure and 608 00:35:21,076 --> 00:35:24,396 Speaker 2: this is the exact quote, that our nation's best and 609 00:35:24,436 --> 00:35:30,116 Speaker 2: brightest have continued access to this outstanding institution. Now, let 610 00:35:30,116 --> 00:35:33,996 Speaker 2: me remind you, at the time of Griffin's gift, Harvard 611 00:35:34,036 --> 00:35:38,236 Speaker 2: had an endowment of thirty six billion dollars. So a 612 00:35:38,276 --> 00:35:41,676 Speaker 2: billionaire gives one hundred and fifty million to an institution 613 00:35:42,116 --> 00:35:45,236 Speaker 2: that has an endowment of thirty six billion because he 614 00:35:45,356 --> 00:35:48,876 Speaker 2: thinks the school needs help opening its gates wider to 615 00:35:48,916 --> 00:35:52,676 Speaker 2: the most talented students in the world, because he's worried 616 00:35:52,916 --> 00:35:56,316 Speaker 2: that thirty six billion might not be enough to ensure 617 00:35:56,436 --> 00:36:01,316 Speaker 2: continued access to this outstanding institution. These two comments were 618 00:36:01,356 --> 00:36:04,716 Speaker 2: not off the cough remarks. I'm reading them from the 619 00:36:04,756 --> 00:36:10,996 Speaker 2: official Harvard press release. Trained professionals perfected those quotes. Smart 620 00:36:11,236 --> 00:36:14,636 Speaker 2: Harvard educated people approved them. They probably sat down in 621 00:36:14,716 --> 00:36:18,156 Speaker 2: teams around a long oak antique conference table dating back 622 00:36:18,196 --> 00:36:20,396 Speaker 2: to the eighteen hundreds and came up with what they 623 00:36:20,436 --> 00:36:24,876 Speaker 2: thought was the most compelling justification for why giving another 624 00:36:25,156 --> 00:36:27,516 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty million dollars to Harvard is a 625 00:36:27,556 --> 00:36:31,636 Speaker 2: good idea? Is that the best they could come up with. 626 00:36:32,036 --> 00:36:36,196 Speaker 2: We're talking because I, as you know, have been critical 627 00:36:36,236 --> 00:36:38,716 Speaker 2: of some of the I'm part of the backlash. I 628 00:36:38,716 --> 00:36:41,996 Speaker 2: guess back to my conversation with John Hennessy of Stanford, 629 00:36:42,396 --> 00:36:46,796 Speaker 2: and I'm just curious about whether how common or how 630 00:36:47,716 --> 00:36:50,436 Speaker 2: often do you run into the two backlash to people 631 00:36:50,476 --> 00:36:55,116 Speaker 2: saying enough with some of these large Am I a 632 00:36:55,156 --> 00:36:57,716 Speaker 2: lonely voice? Or is this something that you have encountered 633 00:36:57,756 --> 00:36:59,516 Speaker 2: a lot and think about a lot? 634 00:37:00,236 --> 00:37:05,596 Speaker 8: We don't encounter it a lot, I would say. I 635 00:37:05,716 --> 00:37:09,476 Speaker 8: think the reason we probably don't encounter it is that 636 00:37:10,876 --> 00:37:16,276 Speaker 8: we don't view this as who gets the biggest slice 637 00:37:16,316 --> 00:37:21,796 Speaker 8: of pie here? We view it as what can we do? 638 00:37:22,196 --> 00:37:24,596 Speaker 8: What can we do to that's transformative? How can we 639 00:37:24,636 --> 00:37:26,516 Speaker 8: increase our contributions to the world. 640 00:37:27,196 --> 00:37:30,596 Speaker 2: I mentioned maybe the most obvious criticism of what Stanford 641 00:37:30,636 --> 00:37:33,996 Speaker 2: is doing, and he says, we don't encounter it a lot. 642 00:37:34,756 --> 00:37:39,236 Speaker 2: Apparently the President of Stanford only encounters people who look 643 00:37:39,236 --> 00:37:42,596 Speaker 2: at American higher education and conclude that what it really 644 00:37:42,636 --> 00:37:46,516 Speaker 2: needs is more money at the top. With all due respect, 645 00:37:46,956 --> 00:37:50,156 Speaker 2: the president of Stanford needs to get out more. Take 646 00:37:50,196 --> 00:37:53,396 Speaker 2: a little trip to Glassborough, New Jersey, to the campus 647 00:37:53,436 --> 00:37:57,156 Speaker 2: of what's now called Rowan University. Maybe take a look 648 00:37:57,196 --> 00:37:58,196 Speaker 2: at the statue up front. 649 00:38:00,516 --> 00:38:04,276 Speaker 3: Cannot he's talking about family? Have we got everything? 650 00:38:04,356 --> 00:38:07,396 Speaker 7: I would say, as. 651 00:38:14,156 --> 00:38:18,196 Speaker 2: You've been listening to revisionist history, sometimes the past deserves 652 00:38:18,276 --> 00:38:21,356 Speaker 2: a second chance. If you like what you've heard, we'd 653 00:38:21,436 --> 00:38:23,676 Speaker 2: love it if you rate us on iTunes, it helps 654 00:38:23,716 --> 00:38:27,036 Speaker 2: a lot. You can find more information about this and 655 00:38:27,156 --> 00:38:31,556 Speaker 2: other episodes at Revisionististory dot com or on your favorite 656 00:38:31,636 --> 00:38:35,556 Speaker 2: podcast app. Our show is produced by Mee La Belle, 657 00:38:35,676 --> 00:38:39,636 Speaker 2: Roxanne Scott and Jacob Smith. Our editor is Julia Barton. 658 00:38:40,316 --> 00:38:45,036 Speaker 2: Music is composed by Luis Gera and Taka Yazuzawa. Flon 659 00:38:45,076 --> 00:38:49,876 Speaker 2: Williams is our engineer. Fact checker Michelle Surraka. Thanks to 660 00:38:49,916 --> 00:38:54,796 Speaker 2: the Penalty Management team Mora Mayer, Andy Bauers and Jacob Weisberg. 661 00:38:55,316 --> 00:38:56,556 Speaker 2: I'm Malcolm Gladwell.