Speaker 1: I met John Gabriel about fifteen years ago. We both
Speaker 1: grew up here in western Washington and as I group
Speaker 1: helps game calls, John was kind of responsible for everything
Speaker 1: website graphics and anything that made us look good. Became
Speaker 1: great friends. Over the years. John has had some great
Speaker 1: success in the field and may be best known for
Speaker 1: his late season mountain white tails here in Washington. UM,
Speaker 1: but also gets it done on El Camille Dear every year. UM,
Speaker 1: how are you doing, John. I'm good man, I'm alive
Speaker 1: and kicking. Can't complain. I think we first hunted together
Speaker 1: in two thousand and sixteen Archery, Idaho, and then the
Speaker 1: last time I hunted together was just recently here in
Speaker 1: New Mexico. MEU and Dirk went there in UM. We've
Speaker 1: had some great trips together. Um, But today I really
Speaker 1: want to dive in to white tail hunting, whitetail callinging.
Speaker 1: You know everything whitetail, and I'm gonna be completely honest,
Speaker 1: like I know enough, but I I don't know the
Speaker 1: intricacies in the details. I really want to dive in
Speaker 1: and talk to you about some of that, um you know.
Speaker 1: On the right on the heels of us launching our
Speaker 1: brand new deer call category, which should be launching October
Speaker 1: tent you've got a chance to play around with them,
Speaker 1: So we'll definitely dive into the new deer calls kind
Speaker 1: of the offering and what we're bringing to the table
Speaker 1: as far as that as well. Yeah, absolutely, I'm excited
Speaker 1: for that line. It calls, um, you know, just for
Speaker 1: myself obviously being a big white tail hunter and whatnot,
Speaker 1: and I love it. And um, I got a chance
Speaker 1: to mess with them and obviously do the photography and
Speaker 1: whatnot for him too, and so it gave me a
Speaker 1: chance to kind of be hands on and I'm excited
Speaker 1: for you guys to come out with those. Thanks. Thanks.
Speaker 1: So now we're gonna jump into our listener questions once again.
Speaker 1: If you have your own questions for me or our guests, um,
Speaker 1: please submit them at ct D at Phelps Game Calls
Speaker 1: dot com. These ones are a little more geared towards
Speaker 1: white tails. We'll be right up John's alley. Um. The
Speaker 1: first one is when in looking for a white tail spot,
Speaker 1: just in general, what do you what would you look
Speaker 1: for like or you know, back up to a thirty
Speaker 1: thousand foot view, John, what makes a good white tail
Speaker 1: spot at least in in the what the western um
Speaker 1: you know mountains that you typically do your white tail hunting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say the biggest key that I look for
Speaker 1: is I start tearing apart maps Onyx and you know whatever,
Speaker 1: Alex Google Earth. The biggest thing that I'm looking for
Speaker 1: pinch points like ridges, big mountain ranges and a bunch
Speaker 1: of like finger ridges that will run down into like
Speaker 1: a flat um type of older willow bottom type flat
Speaker 1: or even some big timber um that has some water around,
Speaker 1: but it provides an ample um kind of trail system
Speaker 1: that those deer can come down. Those big bucks will
Speaker 1: kind of hang out up higher on the mountain and
Speaker 1: as the ruts starts, so kind of work their way
Speaker 1: down and into these benches and they'll travel the same
Speaker 1: kind of ridges coming down and then they'll hit and
Speaker 1: they'll rut, and that would kind of be like the
Speaker 1: thirty thou foot view without really diving down into it
Speaker 1: after that, but really looking for a lot of finger
Speaker 1: ridges like three, four, five, six that will come together,
Speaker 1: and where those come together, those deer will travel down
Speaker 1: and they'll hit that bench and that then that's kind
Speaker 1: of where you'll have some of your best action or
Speaker 1: in Washington specifically, you know, since that's what you know
Speaker 1: the best, and and it maybe are you looking for
Speaker 1: certain elevations? Are you looking for three No matter if
Speaker 1: the mountain goes up the three thousand feet, you're you're
Speaker 1: trying to be at like three quarters of that high?
Speaker 1: Are you? How does that work? Are you does any
Speaker 1: mountain hole, white hill? Are you trying to get like
Speaker 1: certain elevations or just certain areas on the ridgeline? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that that's kind of the tough part. Um. I
Speaker 1: guess it really depends on whether you know, like usually
Speaker 1: in November when we're over there um hunting, um, the
Speaker 1: weather is key. And if you get up too high,
Speaker 1: like you know, we've had years where all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: a storm, freak storm will come in and we'll get
Speaker 1: of snow and you can't even make it some of
Speaker 1: your stands. So I kind of have several areas that
Speaker 1: I've picked out. Some of my stands are lower, they
Speaker 1: might only be feet, and then some of my other
Speaker 1: stands are forty three hundred feet in elevation. Anything above
Speaker 1: that forty three feet, you're really risking it. If a
Speaker 1: big snowstorm comes in but I found that a lot
Speaker 1: of those bucks will kind of hang out in that
Speaker 1: thirty fred like four thousand foot range um. In some
Speaker 1: of the bigger deer are kind of in that higher
Speaker 1: four thousand range um. But you're definitely gonna be pushing
Speaker 1: your you know, you're chaining up usually a lot of
Speaker 1: years trying to get to those stands. But it's the
Speaker 1: best hunting, So it just kind of depends. I have
Speaker 1: a multitude of, you know, areas scouted out in different
Speaker 1: areas depending on the weather, um, but definitely looking at
Speaker 1: those little bit higher elevations. Some stands I've had at
Speaker 1: five thousand feet um and the thing you start running
Speaker 1: into their is meal deer, and so you know, it's
Speaker 1: like you know, you're you start fighting the male deer herds.
Speaker 1: But I've had some giant white tail box at that
Speaker 1: elevation too, So um, yeah, it's just it's kind of depends,
Speaker 1: but I would say that thirty forty two ish range
Speaker 1: is probably your best best bet where I'm at. I
Speaker 1: know other guys that have hunt they hunt them at
Speaker 1: six thousand feet, So it just kind of depends, gotcha.
Speaker 1: So kind of to reiterate what you said, you're looking
Speaker 1: for a lot of finger ridges that kind of lead
Speaker 1: into this a similar or a shared bottom. Um is
Speaker 1: you know, so those travel corridors is what you're looking
Speaker 1: for for a white tail spot that you want to
Speaker 1: invest some time? Yep ye, okay, alright. Question number two,
Speaker 1: if you could only hunt for a ten day section
Speaker 1: of the season, when would you hunt? Like you know,
Speaker 1: so I guess give us your best action, you know,
Speaker 1: bucks pushing dose. Um, when would that ten days be? Um?
Speaker 1: Where I'm at, I would say probably like the eighteenth
Speaker 1: through November like that, that last like ten days ish
Speaker 1: if the month is probably your hottest, heaviest action. Um,
Speaker 1: I've actually shot a lot of deer before that. Um.
Speaker 1: But if you're very trying to pattern him at that point,
Speaker 1: and it's it's just different hunting, they're not going to
Speaker 1: see near the action. Um. But that that last part
Speaker 1: of the month is definitely your best time. Okay. And
Speaker 1: and keep in mind, um, we're in you know, northern Washington,
Speaker 1: and is the you go further south that gets a
Speaker 1: little bit later. So keep that in mind. We're talking
Speaker 1: specifically about you know, northern Washington. You know, as you
Speaker 1: as you move south throughout the country. Um, you know
Speaker 1: there's gonna become later you moved north through, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a little bit earlier. So, um, I know we're
Speaker 1: going to Kansas this year for my first white tail hunt,
Speaker 1: and we're trying to hit that like November, which you
Speaker 1: know I would I would think would be maybe a
Speaker 1: tad earlier, but it's kind of like trying to you know,
Speaker 1: trying to hit just enough of that pre rut right
Speaker 1: to when they're gonna be kind of in the in
Speaker 1: the peak and and and do that. So that's when
Speaker 1: we had elected to put our ten days was November
Speaker 1: should be a good time. That kind of guarantees you're
Speaker 1: you're in that pre to prime rate. Yeah. The one
Speaker 1: thing I'll say with you picking those dates and and
Speaker 1: honestly I usually start hunting around that time frame myself, Um,
Speaker 1: is you'll catch some of those big deer out cruising
Speaker 1: looking for their first dough before they get on their lockdown.
Speaker 1: When you start getting into that eighteen on, you'll risk
Speaker 1: one of your big bucks. He'll get on a dough
Speaker 1: and then they'll just lock themselves down and it might
Speaker 1: be to three days and he'll vanish, like completely off
Speaker 1: your camera out of the area, he'll be gone. So
Speaker 1: I would say, if I had to pick, if you
Speaker 1: want to truly hunt like one big deer, I would
Speaker 1: be looking at those earlier dates. When you're going I
Speaker 1: think that would be prime time. Yeah, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: relating back to Elk. You know, it's always fun to
Speaker 1: be out there during the peak, right, you know, listen
Speaker 1: to biggling. But I've always said, if you want to
Speaker 1: kill those bigger bowls, sometimes it's easier to do, you know,
Speaker 1: just on the front side of that peak route when
Speaker 1: they are on lockdown and they're in full control. That heard.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like it's very relatable to a white
Speaker 1: tailed deer hunting. Here is your spot on. I always
Speaker 1: joked around that I was gonna holt white tails when
Speaker 1: I when I turned seventy and couldn't walk around and
Speaker 1: chase mel deer anymore. But I'm I'm pretty excited change
Speaker 1: it up, do something new, and I think there are
Speaker 1: you know, hunting's hunting that you know. It's it's just
Speaker 1: a it's a culmination of putting together lots of information
Speaker 1: and strategies and where you're seeing deer and what you're
Speaker 1: seeing them doing. And trying to come up with the
Speaker 1: best planned and you know, think of win. So I'm
Speaker 1: excited to to to see you know how all this
Speaker 1: white tail thing comes together. Yeah, I'm excited for you
Speaker 1: to go sit the tree and freeze and then you
Speaker 1: can tell me all about it. It'll be fun. So
Speaker 1: once again, if you've got your own questions for us
Speaker 1: here at Cutting the Distance, please submit your questions to
Speaker 1: ct D at Phelps game Calls dot com. Now I'm
Speaker 1: gonna dive into my questions for you John on white
Speaker 1: toil hunting, but first I want to do a little
Speaker 1: recap on your elk season if you're willing to talk
Speaker 1: about it. Um, you know, we we stay in touch.
Speaker 1: We text. I think I was in Oregon while you
Speaker 1: were in Montana. There you and your wife had a
Speaker 1: very successful hunt, and I just wanted to give you
Speaker 1: give us a quick five five minute recap on on
Speaker 1: how all that went down if if you can. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, Um, yeah it was. It was fun just
Speaker 1: kind of texting back and forth and seeing what we
Speaker 1: each had going on. Um, you know, obviously it's your
Speaker 1: buddies and you want to see him be successful. So um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it was. We spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: this year. Uh, we've never set foot in this place
Speaker 1: and scouted it all summer, packed in water, did everything
Speaker 1: right and just put in a ton of work. I
Speaker 1: mean I was on Google earthen Onics like literally every
Speaker 1: single night, making plans eight through Z and then some
Speaker 1: um and it paid off. Um. I mean we got
Speaker 1: in oz on bowls pretty much every single day there.
Speaker 1: I don't think there was a day I never had
Speaker 1: a bowl come by within bow range. And we had
Speaker 1: found a bowl that I found during the summer, and
Speaker 1: I lost him after he shed, and then ended up
Speaker 1: picking him back up at about day six or seven
Speaker 1: of the hunt, and he had like thirty cows and
Speaker 1: we watched him it couldn't make a play. Had him
Speaker 1: the next day at eight yards all day and just
Speaker 1: the wind was messed up, and then um, all those cows,
Speaker 1: there's too many eyes. And the weird thing is he
Speaker 1: didn't have any satellite bowls running around um, and so
Speaker 1: they had all kind of vanished. And then they moved
Speaker 1: off that night and then I knew where they headed.
Speaker 1: They went north, and so we went the next day,
Speaker 1: didn't see him, couldn't turn him up. Literally just we
Speaker 1: kind of backed out and we were like, let's go
Speaker 1: back to camp for the day and just like regrouped
Speaker 1: for a second and just kind of relaxed, and then
Speaker 1: we got in the evening and try a whole new area. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh ended up churning him up like five miles
Speaker 1: away north and he was out in this big sage
Speaker 1: flat like all on his own, and there was like
Speaker 1: a hundred cows. He lost all thirty cows and then
Speaker 1: there was like a hundred cows with about four bulls
Speaker 1: about two and a half miles away, and uh, Kylie
Speaker 1: ended up spotting her ball um at about a mile
Speaker 1: away ish and it had four cows and a calf.
Speaker 1: And we watched him and you know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: one of those things that wind was perfect and here
Speaker 1: they came feeding across this big sage flat headed towards us,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's kind of one of those things.
Speaker 1: At first, it was like I don't know if they
Speaker 1: were were gonna get a play on him, Like we
Speaker 1: were on a scouting mission honestly, like sitting back with
Speaker 1: spotting scopes and whatnot, just like looking at these elk
Speaker 1: and um pretty quick more elks started popping up all
Speaker 1: over the place, and here came her bowl with these
Speaker 1: four cows and a calf, and I'm you know how
Speaker 1: you do. You're just like, well, they're feeding towards us,
Speaker 1: and this could be really good for us because the
Speaker 1: wind's good, except we're not in a good spot where
Speaker 1: in the wide open, and I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it was like just instinct kind of took
Speaker 1: over and I was like, kydie. I was like, we
Speaker 1: gotta run like as fast as we can, like around
Speaker 1: four hundred yards around the back side of this hill
Speaker 1: and like pop out. I was like, they're gonna come
Speaker 1: through this saddle to our left, and we got to
Speaker 1: get the wind right and I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: even know if they're gonna come by, but I was like,
Speaker 1: they're gonna come by somewhere in there, so I was
Speaker 1: like we might get a shot. We might not. And
Speaker 1: then my bowl spots her bowl and her elks like
Speaker 1: four or like eight hundred yards away at that point,
Speaker 1: and my bull is like a mile off and he
Speaker 1: sees them and starts just ripping bugles, and it was
Speaker 1: I was like, oh boy, here we go. I was like,
Speaker 1: he's gonna come take those cows. Not sure where his
Speaker 1: thirty cows went. So we uh got in position, ran
Speaker 1: around like four yards, got behind this the only rock
Speaker 1: and bush that was in the area, and I started
Speaker 1: ripping off like three like loud as cow call as
Speaker 1: they could, and they all hurt it. And then here
Speaker 1: they came and they started across and then I peek
Speaker 1: over the top in like fifty yards. One of the
Speaker 1: cows pops up and I'm like, crap, knocking arrow, like
Speaker 1: we're like, they're right here on our lap, and uh
Speaker 1: we did. And then her bowl ended up pushing one
Speaker 1: of the cows like right by us, and literally ran
Speaker 1: jumped over the rock that we're behind. We had like
Speaker 1: feet like four or five ft in the air above us,
Speaker 1: and it was the craziest thing I've ever seen. They
Speaker 1: run by us, she's chasing this cow. She stops like
Speaker 1: forty yards behind us. He runs back, and in the meantime,
Speaker 1: I look back in front of me, and I look
Speaker 1: up and there's a cow standing there like three ft
Speaker 1: from the end of my arrow, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh boy, we're done. And uh he runs back up
Speaker 1: stops at seven yards and it's spooked. The cow in
Speaker 1: front of me, thank God, because otherwise I would have
Speaker 1: been stuck. And he puts his head down, grabs a
Speaker 1: piece of grass, lifts his head. She just drew a
Speaker 1: bow back and he just stood there looking at her.
Speaker 1: Shot him and then he turned runs down back where
Speaker 1: they came from, takes the cows and the calf with them,
Speaker 1: and it's one of those things the big bulls like
Speaker 1: bogle and the whole time coming in. But I totally
Speaker 1: space because I was more focused on her, you know,
Speaker 1: shooting that bowl, her first bowl at the bow, and
Speaker 1: I jumped up, we hugged, and we held and I
Speaker 1: was like watching blood is pouring out of her bowl.
Speaker 1: And I looked at like a hundred yards and the
Speaker 1: big bulls standing there, and his head's just swiveling all
Speaker 1: over the place, and I was like, oh no, And
Speaker 1: I was like, we just blew this. So I did
Speaker 1: like three quick cow calls just to calm everything down,
Speaker 1: and he lost his mind and just ran started bugle
Speaker 1: and I ran right into thirteen yards and came out
Speaker 1: on the other side of the bush and I shot
Speaker 1: him and he just ran down, and both the elk
Speaker 1: fell over at the same time, like literally mind fell
Speaker 1: over and hers fell over at the same time, and uh, dude,
Speaker 1: it was pretty It was pretty wild, but just seeing
Speaker 1: her get her first one with the bow. And we
Speaker 1: had put in so much work. I mean, we had
Speaker 1: bowls all over the place and I actually let on
Speaker 1: my first morning. Um, I let like a three bowl
Speaker 1: walk at twenty eight yards and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: did I do the right thing? You know, just that's
Speaker 1: a big bowl that a lot of people want to kill,
Speaker 1: and uh, well it turns out I did, And at
Speaker 1: least I got this pole that I had watched all
Speaker 1: summer and we just made the right game plan and
Speaker 1: and we got him. So yeah, it was it was fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool to double and and see it all
Speaker 1: come together like that. So um, no, congrats on your
Speaker 1: guys ELK season. Now we're gonna dive in to the
Speaker 1: white tail hunting, um and some of the questions that
Speaker 1: I have, So when you set up an area, you know,
Speaker 1: we we talked earlier from when of the listener questions like,
Speaker 1: you know, how do you set up an area? And
Speaker 1: then the next thing you're gonna obviously have to do
Speaker 1: is go scout it. Um, you're not gonna want to
Speaker 1: jump or invest a bunch of time into an area
Speaker 1: that that maybe doesn't you know, have deer in it,
Speaker 1: or won't have deer in it. So when do you
Speaker 1: start scouting? How do you scout and and kind of
Speaker 1: how do you put that together? You know, because a
Speaker 1: lot of these deer in the in the thick timber,
Speaker 1: you can't necessarily glass them up. Um, you know, so
Speaker 1: I'm assuming you're going, you know, trail cameras, Um, are
Speaker 1: you put them on the ridge? Is kind of let
Speaker 1: us know how you scout and when you start scouting,
Speaker 1: so at least those deer going to be in the area, um,
Speaker 1: you know when you start hunting. Yeah, for sure. So
Speaker 1: I have a lot of the areas that we've we
Speaker 1: hunt now, um, and it was obviously easier when I
Speaker 1: lived in Washington to scout it than it is now.
Speaker 1: But um, if it was a brand new area that
Speaker 1: we've never been to, we would go over during the
Speaker 1: summer and just like litter the place with trail cameras,
Speaker 1: like just trying to find these trails, um, and then
Speaker 1: find these benches and whatnot, and you'll find what are
Speaker 1: called like a community scrape and they'll actually hit this
Speaker 1: scrape all year around and just kind of market and
Speaker 1: it'll be bigger than like a normal scrape that will
Speaker 1: happen during the rut. Um it'll be something you know,
Speaker 1: three or four ft across, sometimes bigger and if you
Speaker 1: hike around, you'll find these. And so we would start
Speaker 1: setting up trail cameras on these and these deer will
Speaker 1: hit these things, you know, kind of all season, especially
Speaker 1: during the rut and stuff too, and uh, then other
Speaker 1: other ruts are other scrapes will show up. Um. But
Speaker 1: then we obviously are looking for rubs and you know
Speaker 1: that type of thing and trying to see, you know,
Speaker 1: is there you know, scrape lines, rub lines like stuff
Speaker 1: that you know these deer will make. And if you
Speaker 1: go early in the spring before it greens up, um,
Speaker 1: you know that stuff stands out like you know, a
Speaker 1: sort thumbs. So that's what we would do when we
Speaker 1: first started, um, you know, really scouting new areas. And
Speaker 1: then after we learned, you know, kind of where the
Speaker 1: deer were. Um. You know, obviously there's a lot of
Speaker 1: area where there is no deer and so um, you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of trial and air run the cameras, see
Speaker 1: what's on them, find these spots, and then once we did,
Speaker 1: then you know, it's easy to go back and then
Speaker 1: kind of expand on those core areas and like dive
Speaker 1: down in a little bit and get a little deeper
Speaker 1: um and then really start tearing it apart. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. So a lot of these big bucks white
Speaker 1: tail in general, they don't they don't travel, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: out and clear cuts and much and especially when we hunt,
Speaker 1: like there just isn't any like it's all big, thick timber.
Speaker 1: And so if you don't run cameras, I mean, you're
Speaker 1: you're shooting yourself in the foot. Like you'll never find
Speaker 1: these deer. And what's wild is like they have a
Speaker 1: you know, general rifle season, muddle muzzle order season, everything
Speaker 1: else that goes along before we even get a chance
Speaker 1: to hunt. And if those animals, if people did their
Speaker 1: research and knew like what was truly running around, man,
Speaker 1: they'd probably do a lot better with a rifle. But
Speaker 1: we we've had a lot of years where you know,
Speaker 1: these bucks, we have them year after year after year,
Speaker 1: and I'm just shocked that they make it through rifle season.
Speaker 1: But it's like these people just they don't hunt the
Speaker 1: way that we do. They don't know those deer even
Speaker 1: around and you know during October. I mean those big
Speaker 1: deer just so nocturnal that I mean you're never going
Speaker 1: to shoot one and you can't sneak up on them
Speaker 1: unless you're in a tree stand. So yeah, so so
Speaker 1: I know, you know, we get to follow along, you know,
Speaker 1: as you share your pick cheers and stuff. Um, so
Speaker 1: you're scouting. Let's say you got your trail cameras up
Speaker 1: and you know big Bucks are in the area. It
Speaker 1: sounds like you're hunting, you know, mid to late November.
Speaker 1: If those deer there in November, like they're gonna be there,
Speaker 1: uh come the rut? Like there are you saying they're
Speaker 1: going to be in that same area year round? Or
Speaker 1: do they move into certain areas you know, prior to
Speaker 1: that rut and then once they're there, you know, say
Speaker 1: late October early November, you're just banking on them eventually
Speaker 1: coming back by or you know, being in that area. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So some of the areas that we that we hunt,
Speaker 1: those deer literally lived there year round. Like I've figured
Speaker 1: out where they live and I've just like these particular
Speaker 1: draws always hold big Bucks and these deer will live
Speaker 1: in there. I mean, they just they do not come
Speaker 1: out of there. Um. And so I do have a
Speaker 1: few areas that I set up uh stands in cameras
Speaker 1: and whatnot on that the deer will move in when
Speaker 1: the rut starts. And it's just kind of one of
Speaker 1: those things like you know elk for example, Like over
Speaker 1: the years, you'll figure out and they just rut in
Speaker 1: a certain area. And I do have a few spots
Speaker 1: that I found where these deer will come down in
Speaker 1: they rut, and that is the only time you're ever
Speaker 1: gonna see like that particular buck um versus you know.
Speaker 1: I mean he could live five miles away over the
Speaker 1: backside of a mountain range like and you know, show up. Um.
Speaker 1: I have had deer literally eight nine miles away, and
Speaker 1: they will come over to mountain ranges drainages like along
Speaker 1: ways and show up on a camera all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, during the rut, like they'll start cruising. Um.
Speaker 1: But you can kind of find their core home, like
Speaker 1: their core area if they're there during the summer where
Speaker 1: I'm hunting. At least these deer will be there like
Speaker 1: all season, and you know, give or take, they might
Speaker 1: move you know, a half mile a mile, but a
Speaker 1: lot of the big ones they literally will live within
Speaker 1: like a one mile square area like all year and
Speaker 1: won't move. Got So that's a great, great point on
Speaker 1: scouting and figuring out. So the next the next decision
Speaker 1: I'm assuming that has to be made. You know, once
Speaker 1: you do you're scouting, is where are you going to
Speaker 1: set up your tree stand or where are you gonna
Speaker 1: set up your ground blind and some of those things
Speaker 1: that will now affect us. So we've established that we've
Speaker 1: got you know, a target buck or some target bucks
Speaker 1: in your area. Um, you're looking at where you're gonna
Speaker 1: set your stand up? Are you setting your stand up
Speaker 1: right at your camera? Are you looking at travel corridors
Speaker 1: you know within that area, or where you think maybe
Speaker 1: the does are going to travel more so than that buck? Um?
Speaker 1: And then the other thing I'm assuming is wind. Um,
Speaker 1: we've got our prevailing wind, which is you know, and
Speaker 1: then you've got your thermals, and then you've got you know,
Speaker 1: that time of year, you've got storm systems and stuff
Speaker 1: coming in. Like give us a little bit on how
Speaker 1: you're gonna establish where you're setting your stand? And then
Speaker 1: is it based on you know how how it relates
Speaker 1: to travel corridors and in the wind direction. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: we what we do generally, you know, we're hunting them
Speaker 1: in the mountains, so it's a lot different than farm
Speaker 1: fields where you'll get that prevailing wind generally, and you'll
Speaker 1: know when a storm system comes in what the wind
Speaker 1: is gonna do. Um. Kind of ironically, we we look
Speaker 1: at like LK. Cunting the way that we hunt and
Speaker 1: set our stands for white tails. Um. The wind is
Speaker 1: usually pulling down in the morning, pretty hard down these draws,
Speaker 1: and so we'll try to come in from the bottom
Speaker 1: and get our stuff set up where we can access
Speaker 1: it with the wind in our face. Generally the deer
Speaker 1: will be above us. Um, kind of know where they're
Speaker 1: hanging out. Obviously we'll bumps some when we're coming in
Speaker 1: it sometimes, but it's just part of part of it. Um.
Speaker 1: But generally we try to come in from the bottom
Speaker 1: and get the wind right. And also when we're leaving
Speaker 1: in the evening, that way we go out and the
Speaker 1: wind is obviously it's pulling down, but the deer above us,
Speaker 1: so we're walking out with the wind you know, in
Speaker 1: our favor going out, Um, it's at our back, but
Speaker 1: we're not bumping deer. Um. So that's kind of how
Speaker 1: what we look at when we're trying to access an area. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I have like six eight different stands set up in
Speaker 1: different areas. Some some places I might have two at
Speaker 1: the same so I can come in a different way. Um,
Speaker 1: if a storm rolls in or something and it changes
Speaker 1: the thermals or it gets kind of weird throughout the day,
Speaker 1: I might you know, get down and move over to
Speaker 1: another spot. Um. So that's that's kind of the kicker.
Speaker 1: But then what I'm looking for and in this, you know,
Speaker 1: is it's kind of ironic in a way. Like the
Speaker 1: does will come in and walk a certain trail, and
Speaker 1: you think that, like all the deer are gonna walk
Speaker 1: that same trail. Um, But I've found the little er bucks,
Speaker 1: like you're one and a half to like three and
Speaker 1: a half maybe and four and a half year old deer,
Speaker 1: they'll kind of follow the same trails as the does.
Speaker 1: But if you start getting in that four and a
Speaker 1: half five and a half plus aged deer, he will
Speaker 1: literally try to get the wind right and he'll come
Speaker 1: in and walk his own trail, Like twenty yards below
Speaker 1: like the main trail that like all the other deer
Speaker 1: take and just so he can smell him as he's
Speaker 1: walking along in It's it's weird, like I've watched enough
Speaker 1: big bucks over the years, and they never come in
Speaker 1: where you think they're gonna They always are glow or high,
Speaker 1: like wherever the wind is. Uh, you know, during the
Speaker 1: day obviously they'll go be above it because the thermals.
Speaker 1: But um, I'll try to figure out where he's coming
Speaker 1: from and where I think I'm gonna have my best
Speaker 1: opportunity for a shooting lane, and I'll put my stand
Speaker 1: back where I can access it, but where he's more
Speaker 1: likely to come out of, like a thick patch of
Speaker 1: brush or something. Um, and you know where he's gonna
Speaker 1: end up walking on his own trail. Um. And I
Speaker 1: and what I'll do, I'll literally like go look at
Speaker 1: big buck tracks and I'll backtrack them and try to
Speaker 1: figure out, like where that buck is betting. Obviously, I
Speaker 1: try to do it preseason, so if I bump him,
Speaker 1: you know, he'll hopefully be back in there before like
Speaker 1: the time of year when I'm gonna hunt him. Um.
Speaker 1: But I've learned so much after I've actually like harvest
Speaker 1: you know, harvest shot at deer or whatever I've I've
Speaker 1: like learned so much those next few days after and
Speaker 1: I'll like go back to my other stands and backtrack
Speaker 1: the big deer and figure out where they were coming from.
Speaker 1: And that just takes years of of learning. But once
Speaker 1: you figure that out, um, you know, it's like then
Speaker 1: I'll be able to move in there the next year
Speaker 1: and you know, set my stand up and boom, like
Speaker 1: you'll that's where you you'll know where you want to
Speaker 1: put it. So it's kind of a combination of certain things.
Speaker 1: But look at you know, whatever way the wind's going. Generally,
Speaker 1: if you know, if you're in the timber and it's
Speaker 1: pulling down or whatnot, in that time of year, it's
Speaker 1: so cold out that the wind seems to be pulling
Speaker 1: downhill a lot, and the deer will he'll be below
Speaker 1: that trail like twenty yards every time. So it's like
Speaker 1: I'll set up off that trail a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: twenty yards below it or so, and then if he
Speaker 1: comes on that trail at twenty, I'm shooting there. If
Speaker 1: he hits the main trail, I'm shooting forty and you
Speaker 1: know that's it is what it is. Now we're gonna
Speaker 1: move on to maybe one of the most contentious topics
Speaker 1: when it comes to white tail deer hunting. And you've
Speaker 1: got people on both ends of the spectrum. But I'm
Speaker 1: just looking for your own opinion on scent. Um. The
Speaker 1: thrubles aren't always gonna work the way you want, The
Speaker 1: wind isn't always gonna do what you want. So what's
Speaker 1: your opinion on scent and how much precaution do you
Speaker 1: take when dealing with that? So are we talking like
Speaker 1: scent control or are we talking like deer sense? I
Speaker 1: would say like scent control? What how how important is it?
Speaker 1: You know, we'll talk about attractings and stuff here in
Speaker 1: a little bit, but just your own scent and making
Speaker 1: sure that you know you're not spooking you know, deer
Speaker 1: out of the area. Yeah, for sure. So that we
Speaker 1: kind of have mixed opinions on that, and I've you know,
Speaker 1: heard so many different opinions. But I'm the type of
Speaker 1: guy like I use a lot of like dead down
Speaker 1: wind and those scent killers and whatnot. Um, I try
Speaker 1: to shower every night and you know, use all the
Speaker 1: everything I can I'll spray my clothes down, my boots
Speaker 1: down every single night. Um. The thing is, I found,
Speaker 1: you know, we've we've kind of adopted the ground blind
Speaker 1: game here over the last few years, uh five six
Speaker 1: years actually, since my sister started hunting with us. And
Speaker 1: it's it's weird being on the ground in a blind.
Speaker 1: You can get away with so much more than you
Speaker 1: can when you're sitting in a stand. I love sitting
Speaker 1: in a stand because I have way more shooting opportunity.
Speaker 1: When you're in the ground blind, You've only got like
Speaker 1: one little window or two to shoot out of, so
Speaker 1: the deer has to cross where you where you're shooting. Um.
Speaker 1: But man, I feel like we've got away with like
Speaker 1: murders sitting in that in that stand or in the
Speaker 1: ground blind. Um, you know. And so my dad, you know,
Speaker 1: and sister there, they'll spray down every now and then
Speaker 1: and you know, a couple of days type thing and whatnot.
Speaker 1: I do it every single night. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it truly makes a difference. If it doesn't. All I
Speaker 1: know is is that I've had days where I get winded,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: because you know the winds are horrible and just swirling
Speaker 1: too much. Those seem to be the days when I
Speaker 1: get winded. Um, But I feel my thing is whether
Speaker 1: the stuff works or not. I mean, it's on the market,
Speaker 1: there's so much of it, and something has to work,
Speaker 1: and I feel like, in my opinion, like it has
Speaker 1: to be better than not doing anything. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: if it just gives me that extra second to fool
Speaker 1: that deer like not be smelled, and I get the shot,
Speaker 1: I'm all for it. Um. The other kicker is like
Speaker 1: my stands. I set my tree stands like usually, and
Speaker 1: I found it about twenty two ft the thermals change
Speaker 1: like the wind. The wind will actually change. I used
Speaker 1: to set them all around that twenty ftmark, and I
Speaker 1: would get winded. Once I went higher, then I stopped
Speaker 1: getting winded as much and so and seen, so I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like there's definitely a gap
Speaker 1: right there in that twenty two foot range twenty ft
Speaker 1: where the wind will change and you can get away
Speaker 1: with so much more. I still use my scent control.
Speaker 1: I haven't ever stopped since day one. Um. I think
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of one of those things like
Speaker 1: maybe a superstitious thing. I'm like, man, if I do
Speaker 1: this like it's gonna bring me good luck. Um, but
Speaker 1: I feel like it works and that I guess it's
Speaker 1: kind of my my own head, so I'll keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. It's
Speaker 1: what people are comfortable with and what they feel work. So. UM,
Speaker 1: Now in Washington, I know the rules have changed over
Speaker 1: the last few years. Um, but we're allowed to use
Speaker 1: you know, baits and small small quantity. And then also
Speaker 1: you were mentioned like deer attractants or since what's your
Speaker 1: opinion on on bates and attractants? Um, you know how
Speaker 1: you use them? And then um, you know the the
Speaker 1: advantages and disadvantages of bits and attractings. Yeah. So, I mean, dude,
Speaker 1: we we've done every thing, and like you know, we
Speaker 1: have stands. I mean we set up every year and
Speaker 1: we'll put bait out and whatnot because we're allowed to
Speaker 1: bait in Washington, and it kind of varies. You know
Speaker 1: where we're at, and you know what we put out
Speaker 1: and what we do. I have other stands where I
Speaker 1: literally just hunt scrapes and you know, redlines and that
Speaker 1: type of thing, but generally big scrapes, and I'll put
Speaker 1: out you know, um like buck fever synthetics. Like they
Speaker 1: have their their scrape Uh I forgot exactly the name
Speaker 1: of would have to dig it out, but it's uh.
Speaker 1: They have a like rut scent and then they have
Speaker 1: a mock scrape scent. And I'll build my own scrapes
Speaker 1: or if I have scrapes that I found over the years,
Speaker 1: and I'll dump some of that in it. And I
Speaker 1: love hunting that way because I feel like the true
Speaker 1: big bucks. I'll be honest, like I mean, yes, we've
Speaker 1: killed a few over bait, but like the true big
Speaker 1: ones don't come to the bait, like they will stay
Speaker 1: outside of it, and they'll stop at thirty forty yards
Speaker 1: and like look over there, and if there's not a
Speaker 1: dough there. They they're spooky man like, it's it's not
Speaker 1: the same if you're hunting a scrape. He's a lot
Speaker 1: more like he's still super cautious, and they're so spooky
Speaker 1: compared to like a mule deer or an elk. But
Speaker 1: they'll come in and it's like almost like their guards
Speaker 1: down a little bit because they're like, oh, hey, another
Speaker 1: dear is peed here and made his own scrape, rubbed
Speaker 1: these limbs, done whatever, and I'm just leaving my scent.
Speaker 1: And so he's definitely less cautious. And so it's like
Speaker 1: if they come in and they're coming in the bait man,
Speaker 1: it's like they're on edge and it is hard to
Speaker 1: shoot them like they I mean, it's like you better
Speaker 1: not be making a noise or or have your clothes
Speaker 1: make a noise or anything. I've had bucks come in
Speaker 1: and literally like lose their minds, spook just at me
Speaker 1: trying to draw my bow back and I barely even
Speaker 1: moved and so, um, it's hard. But does the bait
Speaker 1: bring in year, yes, Like I mean, if you know
Speaker 1: guys over there, they'll throw alfalfa. Some people throw out corn,
Speaker 1: that type of thing. Um. The thing that I will caution,
Speaker 1: like if you ever use corn or something, depending where
Speaker 1: you're hunting, bears will find it in the early part
Speaker 1: in November. And if you're going to scare every gear
Speaker 1: out of the country because the barrel come in and
Speaker 1: live on it and eat it. Um, So you kind
Speaker 1: of got to be careful with that. Delfalfa is probably
Speaker 1: the better way to go. Um. But obviously you can't
Speaker 1: put that much out in Washington. I think it's two
Speaker 1: five gallon buckets still and um, which is not much.
Speaker 1: And uh, the does if you can get the dose
Speaker 1: hanging around eating that, like obviously a big Buck's going
Speaker 1: to come in. But I could count on one hand
Speaker 1: over the years or two my dad's sister and I
Speaker 1: and how many we've actually got, like the big ones
Speaker 1: like eating the bait like if they just don't. So
Speaker 1: I tend to follow my pinch my pinch points in
Speaker 1: the scrapes and then I'll use those primarily as my
Speaker 1: main hunting opportunity. Yeah, I've I've been talking to Randy Milligan,
Speaker 1: my buddy there in Kansas, and it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: Like those big bucks, they're not interested in eating the
Speaker 1: bait pile or the feeder or anything like that. And
Speaker 1: so a lot of his um, you know, those bucks
Speaker 1: are coming in checking for does. But then they're gonna
Speaker 1: stay you know, a hundred yards off a down wind
Speaker 1: of that, and they're just really checking on does. They
Speaker 1: have no desire to go eat you know, out of
Speaker 1: out of any sort of bait or you know, artificial
Speaker 1: food source or anything like that. So it sounds like
Speaker 1: it's real similar even in farm country compared to you know,
Speaker 1: high mountain white tails. Those big bucks are just at
Speaker 1: a different level and they're all interested in nixposing themselves,
Speaker 1: you know, the wide opener or going to a spot
Speaker 1: like that. Alright, So we touched on this this question
Speaker 1: A little bit that I had for is kind of
Speaker 1: when to hunt white tails. We kind of picked you know, November.
Speaker 1: But are there elements or or things that affect that, Like,
Speaker 1: are there is there a weather pattern or you know
Speaker 1: a type of weather that just gets you super stoked
Speaker 1: to get up in the stand? Um you know, like
Speaker 1: like what's your favorite time to hunt white tail? Like
Speaker 1: a two inch dusting a snow, you know, twelve inches
Speaker 1: a new snow, Like what's that ultimate? Um, you know
Speaker 1: day you just need to be in the stand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So my my favorite, absolute favorite day is to be
Speaker 1: sitting there the day before, like and if I know
Speaker 1: a storm system is coming of any sort, so it's
Speaker 1: like could be you know, like tomorrow it's gonna just
Speaker 1: pour down rain or a snow storm is coming in
Speaker 1: um Man, the night before can be really good because
Speaker 1: those animals know a storm is coming, so they'll get
Speaker 1: up and start moving. But then the day to storm
Speaker 1: hits and my like personal favorite is to be sitting
Speaker 1: in a stand mid day and excuse me as mid
Speaker 1: day and we'll have that storm roll in. If a
Speaker 1: storm rolls in at any point like during that day
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it gets you know, it
Speaker 1: could be blowing, could be nasty, starts snowing. The big
Speaker 1: one is if it starts snowing. And I man, I've
Speaker 1: had so many days where I'm sitting there and it's
Speaker 1: just a cool, calm day, know, and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden it'll the weather starts changing and snowflakes start
Speaker 1: falling out of the sky. Those big bucks get on
Speaker 1: their feet and they like every time. I mean, I
Speaker 1: would say most of the big ones I've killed has
Speaker 1: been in that weather condition, Like the weather changes and
Speaker 1: boom here they come. Now that being said, if there's
Speaker 1: no storm coming in, but it's gonna get cold or
Speaker 1: there's snow on the ground, my next kind of favorite
Speaker 1: time would be like six to eight, ten and twelve
Speaker 1: inches of snow and as cold as it can get,
Speaker 1: like just clear skies. But let the weather the temperatures
Speaker 1: drop hopefully I mean we've been sitting over there some
Speaker 1: years and it's negative two degrees and we sit there
Speaker 1: for ten hours a day, don't get out. But the
Speaker 1: deer move all day, like they will be roaming around.
Speaker 1: They're coming in because it's cold, they are checking those,
Speaker 1: they're looking for those, and you will have so much
Speaker 1: activity the colder it gets, and so that's probably my
Speaker 1: second favorite time. Um, but the storm rolling in is
Speaker 1: like the ultimate. I mean, if you get a day
Speaker 1: like that, you're you're going to kill a big one, gotcha. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's Uh, that's kind of what I was thinking.
Speaker 1: You know, similar to other hunting you know, pre pre system,
Speaker 1: you know, during the system and then you know what
Speaker 1: I what I don't like on at least what I've
Speaker 1: hunted is like the same weather for you know, ten
Speaker 1: days in a row, like you want some you know,
Speaker 1: you want weather patterns that are changing in order to
Speaker 1: you know, get the deer moving. Um So that makes
Speaker 1: a ton of sense. So now we're gonna get into
Speaker 1: more of what I would consider. You know, what I
Speaker 1: would think is the funnest part is calling to the deer,
Speaker 1: you know, audibly, you know, attracting a deer to your location,
Speaker 1: and UM, I'm gonna take a little bit to kind
Speaker 1: of just announce that that new deer call line we've got.
Speaker 1: We've got UM a full category. We've got three different
Speaker 1: grunt calls coming out. UM. We've got a bleat adjustable bleat,
Speaker 1: and then we've also got a full and distress call
Speaker 1: for you know, calling in some of those mealies that
Speaker 1: are on lockdown and some of the other stuff we do.
Speaker 1: So we've got a Alpha grunner, which is the deepest
Speaker 1: sounding UM grant we've got. We've got a Beta, which
Speaker 1: is more of a UM full acrylic UH. I would
Speaker 1: call it like a duck style UM deer call. And
Speaker 1: then we've got a Omega, which is a hybrid acrylic
Speaker 1: plastic call um that's fully adjustable. We've got a d
Speaker 1: O a bleat UM and then in that fall in distress,
Speaker 1: we're excited to release those finally um on on October tenth.
Speaker 1: But let's jump into your kind of your your your
Speaker 1: white tailed deer calling strategy kind of the calls you use,
Speaker 1: your approach. You know, whether you're randomly blowing on a
Speaker 1: call every you know, fifteen minutes, or if you do
Speaker 1: it at certain times. Um. And then how you go
Speaker 1: about you know, bringing those dear dear location through calls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. So one thing, if it's earlier in the season, uh,
Speaker 1: you know that kind of early to mid November time frame,
Speaker 1: we do a lot of rattling and grunting, um you know,
Speaker 1: and like kind of tending grunts you know type thing
Speaker 1: or you know, something to kind of like hey, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe this bucks tending a dough already, and try to
Speaker 1: pick their interests. Um. And so that the rattling works
Speaker 1: really good. Early it's like the bucks are you know,
Speaker 1: they're fighting, they're trying to sabash their dominance. And we've
Speaker 1: we've had some really good luck rattling in some big
Speaker 1: deer um you know that that come in that time
Speaker 1: of year, and obviously a ton of small deer too
Speaker 1: that come in and they're just trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what where the party's at. Um. And so that works
Speaker 1: really good then. Um. But then as kind of things
Speaker 1: progress into the right a little farther, a little heavier, hotter, well,
Speaker 1: what we tend to do is we'll still do maybe
Speaker 1: a rattle here and there, like let them know like, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe there's some bucks fighting over here like one of
Speaker 1: these does you know is in estris like she's hot um,
Speaker 1: and and try to pick their interest still. But well,
Speaker 1: what I like to do is the early morning, Like
Speaker 1: first thing right when I get to stand right at daylight,
Speaker 1: um is maybe do like a couple just know buck grunts,
Speaker 1: you know, like hey, you know I'm over here or
Speaker 1: attending grunt type style and let them know. And then
Speaker 1: the other thing I'll do is like kind of that
Speaker 1: doe in estis, you know, bleat type thing um, and
Speaker 1: just let them know like hey, maybe there's you know,
Speaker 1: a dover here. And so I'll do like a doe
Speaker 1: bleat and then I'll do like two three four grunts
Speaker 1: right after that and let them know that you know, hey,
Speaker 1: you know something's going on over here, and see if
Speaker 1: obviously there's got to be a deer close enough to
Speaker 1: hear it. Um. And that's a tough part about where
Speaker 1: we hunt in the mountains. It's it's those deer living
Speaker 1: those jaws, but it deadends to sounds so much we're
Speaker 1: like a farm field, it will kind of carry further,
Speaker 1: so the deer has to be somewhat close. But we'll
Speaker 1: go in do those bleats and then I'll shut up
Speaker 1: for you know, a while, and then I might do
Speaker 1: like one or two sessions like fifteen minutes apart, right
Speaker 1: in the morning, and then I might not do anything
Speaker 1: until like ten eleven o'clock, like mid day. And what
Speaker 1: we found, honestly, like a lot of the big bucks
Speaker 1: in the morning. Even sometimes they'll be laying down at
Speaker 1: daylight already because they've read it all night, and then
Speaker 1: tended to mid day is when we've seen most of
Speaker 1: our big deer over the years, and those big bucks
Speaker 1: get curious, they're up, they've they've rested up in the
Speaker 1: morning and they're like, hey, I'm gonna start cruising again.
Speaker 1: And you know, tend to. We always we joke about it.
Speaker 1: People get out of their stands and go back to
Speaker 1: their chuck eat, launch to take a nap whatever, and
Speaker 1: you know, we're in the woods and boom out walks
Speaker 1: the big guy. So I might do some more calling maybe,
Speaker 1: you know, it depends on you know, what's going on
Speaker 1: in what phase of the rut. I'm man, maybe a
Speaker 1: rattle or something, but do another dog leader too, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, some grunts or maybe it's just some grunts
Speaker 1: type of thing like two three grunts or like act
Speaker 1: like they're tending a dough, that type of thing. And man,
Speaker 1: I've had some really good luck mid day and doing that,
Speaker 1: and I've literally had bucks like run in and it's
Speaker 1: they'll all of a sudden, they're coming. They're looking trying
Speaker 1: to figure out where the noise came from. And then
Speaker 1: of course you know it's too late usually and where
Speaker 1: I set my stands and I guess this kind of
Speaker 1: goes back to the stand location thing. I try to
Speaker 1: set my stand in a spot where I can get
Speaker 1: a shot, but a spot that it's super thick for
Speaker 1: the deer, so he'll run in and feel like he's
Speaker 1: hid and you can get you're looking down on him
Speaker 1: so you can see him and get away with a lot,
Speaker 1: and he'll stand there looking around like maybe out in
Speaker 1: an opening, trying to see that dough, but you're on
Speaker 1: the edge of the thick cover and then get make
Speaker 1: your move perfect. Now I have to ask a question
Speaker 1: on when you're grunning, are you trying to be a
Speaker 1: dominant buck or are you trying to be you know, like, uh,
Speaker 1: it sounds like a slightly younger buck, Like what's your
Speaker 1: strategy there? Do you want to let that big buck
Speaker 1: know that maybe a smaller bucks running does or in
Speaker 1: the area. Uh, can you give us a little input
Speaker 1: on on what type of buck you're trying to sound like? Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. So in this kind a it's two sided.
Speaker 1: I guess it depends. If it's earlier in the season
Speaker 1: and I'm rattling and whatnot, I try to sound like
Speaker 1: a big buck, and I just you know, it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: come get me, you know, like I'm trying to establish
Speaker 1: my dominance and let's let's duke it out um as
Speaker 1: it goes on. And you know, I've done both and
Speaker 1: I've had results with both. But then at other times
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, like that I scared the deer off,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not sure, maybe they went into a lockdown
Speaker 1: phase and like disappeared. And here I'm thinking I scared
Speaker 1: him off, but he's really not. Um, he's just on lockdown.
Speaker 1: But I tend to do like a little bit try
Speaker 1: to sound like a little bit of a younger buck
Speaker 1: that's on a dough um that way. You know, it's
Speaker 1: like he thinks that, oh, hey, here's this younger like
Speaker 1: buck that's over here running my does I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: over there and I'm gonna kill him type of thing,
Speaker 1: and you know we're gonna I'm taking that dough back,
Speaker 1: and so I've always tried to play that strategy a
Speaker 1: little bit is like, don't sound like the biggest, most
Speaker 1: dominant buck in the area. The thing that that I
Speaker 1: run into. I'm not fortunate enough to hunt these big
Speaker 1: you know, farm fields and these big you know ranches
Speaker 1: and stuff back in the Midwest where there's literally hundreds
Speaker 1: of deer on these ranches. We're hunting deer that there's like,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe two three bucks and you know, it's
Speaker 1: like one big buck and two three like smaller you know,
Speaker 1: immature bucks, and then like two or three doughs, and
Speaker 1: like that's it in my whole, like one of my stands,
Speaker 1: like that'll be it. So I don't want to go
Speaker 1: in there sounding like a big another big dominant buck
Speaker 1: usually because there might only be one big dominant buck
Speaker 1: there and he knows, like he'll be like, nope, these
Speaker 1: other deer that are here, there's two or three little guys,
Speaker 1: and you know, I know who you are, don't you know,
Speaker 1: And a big one rolls in and then I just
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like sometimes like they get
Speaker 1: spooked by that because they they're aware that there's not
Speaker 1: tons of deer in the area. Now if I had
Speaker 1: an area where there was ten big bucks, like sure,
Speaker 1: maybe so that I always try to play that younger
Speaker 1: buck and like, you know, let him know that, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the little guys in here running
Speaker 1: them that that makes a ton of sense and you know,
Speaker 1: a little bit relatable to elk, even though the one
Speaker 1: downside with elk is you just can't, you know, keep
Speaker 1: up with the volume. So we always try to sound
Speaker 1: as absolutely big as we can and still end up
Speaker 1: falling short of a real elk. But that makes a
Speaker 1: ton of sense on you know, especially in an area
Speaker 1: where the deer kind of have their pecking order figured out,
Speaker 1: they kind of know what's there and what's around. Like
Speaker 1: unless uh, you know, an outside buck just showed up
Speaker 1: in the area, he's probably starting to question like, hey,
Speaker 1: I I haven't heard you before, I know you're not
Speaker 1: in the area. Um So, so it makes a ton
Speaker 1: of sense. I really appreciate having you on here, John,
Speaker 1: um you know, sharing sharing some of your white tail
Speaker 1: tips and tactics and and too close if you had
Speaker 1: one ti to maybe help a new white tail hunter,
Speaker 1: somebody who wants to go try, you know, mountain white
Speaker 1: tail hunting. Um, what would that tip be, oh Man,
Speaker 1: one tip, I would say my my single biggest tip
Speaker 1: that I could give someone is days in the stand,
Speaker 1: Like just spend the time out there, find like literally look,
Speaker 1: find those travel corridors, find scrapes, and just get in
Speaker 1: the stand and sit. It's like it's a waiting game.
Speaker 1: And I've had too many guys go over and they
Speaker 1: spend two days I didn't see a deer. And there's
Speaker 1: days that I go by and I never see a deer.
Speaker 1: But you just gotta keep sitting there, don't get out
Speaker 1: of your stand, sit all ten hours daylight till dark,
Speaker 1: and just put in the time, like something will happen.
Speaker 1: That's a great tip. Um. You know, time is always
Speaker 1: the number one you no matter what type of hunting,
Speaker 1: you just putting time in the field. You know something
Speaker 1: something's gonna happen, whether it's good or bad. But you know,
Speaker 1: putting yourself out there, you know, punching that I'm clock
Speaker 1: as much as possible as always, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the best tips. So I really appreciate having you on here. John.
Speaker 1: Congrats to you and Kylie on your guys elk season
Speaker 1: and good luck and everything you're moving forward. And I
Speaker 1: think it sounds like we may join up and and
Speaker 1: do my Washington elk hunt here in the next couple
Speaker 1: of weeks together. So looking forward to spending some time
Speaker 1: with you and and appreciate you being on here. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me on. I can't wait to
Speaker 1: see you uh put your tag on a giant bowl,
Speaker 1: I hope. So thanks a lot, John, take care, Thanks ma'am.
Speaker 1: M